This week in Kolby, Wisconsin, a situation escalates to a gruesome plan and horrific murder that can only be called shocking, especially when it's discovered that two things were taken from the victim, two things that no man exactly wants to live without. Welcome to small town murder. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to small town murder. Yeah, yeah, indeed, Jimmy, yeah, indeed.

My name is James Petraglia. I'm here with my co-host, Jimmy Wassmann. Thank you, folks, so much for joining us again and again. We really appreciate it because it's been insane lately. We've been on a wild fun roller and today. Oh, my God, this is like this is part of the roller coaster where, like, water dumps on you. Oh, well, a little bit that fun. This is a crazy escape for us.

As you can tell by the intro, it's intriguing, to say the least. Well, just say that. But first of all, thank you guys for everything this week for your reviews on Apple podcast. First of all, they go a long way. We have no idea why, but that's not up to us. So if you haven't done it yet, please give us five stars. Doesn't matter what you say, say anything. You want to tell me what your favorite tire tread is.

That's I have no I don't know what that is for me. So look it up and, you know, do that. If you want the channels water away or just say, I like this show, that's fine. But thank you for doing that if you haven't. But they really do count for some reason.

Head over to shut up and give me murder. Dotcom for everything, small town murder and crime and sports, of course, as well. And if you haven't listen to crime and sports, especially recently, give it a shot. I'm telling you, we have been having some insane cases over there. Wild stuff. Kellen Winslow Junior was one of the worst people ever.

If you want to hear how a serial killer starts, that's the story right up. They stopped him right before he started murdering people. We feel like goodness. Check on that this week. Listen to all of that and also get your tickets up to the virtual live show, October the twenty ninth. It's on everybody, the all violent felon edition of the prisoner dating game. You will be seen. Oh, my God, this is going to be crazy.

Jimmy's not going to be able to see the people before he picks them. You will be able to see them at home, but he will not will tell Jimmy all about these people will line up for bachelors and for bachelorettes.

And Jimmy is going to pick one of each. And that's going to be insane because, you know, he's not going to know who it is. And then afterwards, once he picks them, then we'll say, here's the people you picked and then we'll tell them exactly what they did to earn their position in prison.

So that's going to be quite fun and good times.

They're saying that I really missed the boat on that show. They should have done it that way.

Yeah, I mean, so shut up and give me murder. Dotcom is where you can get those tickets for that October 29th, get your pre Halloween stuff there and all of that. Now, Patreon, you want to be a producer of the show, you're going to get stuff for that. Jimmy is going to mispronounce your name at the end of the show. That's going to happen. You're going to get tons of bonus stuff as well. This last week, we did murder houses for sale, which was really cool, like crazy murder houses and famous ones, not so famous ones.

We talked all about that. I have one lined up for the next episode where three ladies are trying to resurrect Jack the Ripper and like Twin.

Oh, no, it's one of the craziest stories you're ever going to hear. So that's our next bonus episode for that tune into that.

It's how we finally are you. It's it's insane. It's wild. So that said, let's get to the disclaimer. This is a comedy podcast. Comedy show. This is about murder. Seem like a comedy show about murder. Yes. Comedy show about murder. It's actually the better way to go about it, we think. I think it's a little too dark to hear someone solemnly and then head was removed from her shoulder.

That's a little depressing for me. I'd rather hear some light shit around the murder and then still respect the murder. Yeah, but, you know, let's play around a little bit in the seams, you know what I'm saying? So that's what we're going to do here. We're going to have a good time not to get too dark with it, although there's some gross stuff that there's no way it's not going to be dark. So that's how that works.

If you think, you know, true crime and comedy, don't go together, maybe you shouldn't listen, that's all. But I'll tell you one thing we do. We go out of our way and try our best not to make fun of the victim or the victim's family.

Was that because we're assholes but we're not scumbags? That's how that works. So everybody on board for that. I think it's time to sit back.

Yeah, clear the lungs out and shout, shut up and give me my car. Let's do this. Jimmy got Ray to go on a trip. Let's go to the Midwest again. Come back there. We are going to Kolby, Wisconsin.

Oh, baby. And it's exactly what you thinking. You're going to go, oh, is that where the cheese. Yes, it is absolutely hackie. FOX Absolutely. It wasn't hackle it.

Yeah, it's it's named after a railroad guy.

So the cheese is named after a railroad railroad. Is that true. Yeah, inadvertently it's we'll get to it myself. Boy it's in central Wisconsin like kind of dead if there was a bullseye. Yeah. This is the one hundred points right here. If you had Kolby, Wisconsin, about three and a half hours to Milwaukee, about two and a half hours over to Minneapolis, three hours to Jefferson, Wisconsin, which is episode one. Fifty seven, which we did in February, early February, which might as well have been one hundred years ago.

Because let's be honest, from February to October of this year as. Been like it's like dog years. It's been at least 14 years. I feel like so there was a man singing about blowing his boyfriend funeral at that time. It's wild. So you don't even remember it? No. Remember anything. So this is when we were on the road still. So let's put it that way. So this is it's in two different counties. It's in Clark and Marathon Counties Area Code seven one five.

It's a small town, about one point six, five square miles. So a tiny little town Colby is. They have, of course, motto's here and there. This is pretty funny. Honestly, this is a long motto, the first one, and I'm not making this up at all, that first it is, quote, a growing community proud of its heritage and is it's not really a motto.

And your heritage is cheese. So that's all your heritage is. They're growing and a growing community. We have the same amount of people, way less space.

We're just expanding a lot of cheese and quote, home of Colbie cheese, which we figured already.

And that's the worst cheese. It's pretty lame. I like a sharp cheddar personally. That's my favorite flavor. Yeah, I like a extra sharp cheddar is nice.

So I've combined these two into something realistic that still emphasizes what they're proud of. OK, so that because those two there are two, they're disparate. Let's put them together. Kolby proud of our heritage of the finest cheese farts on earth and I think that's who makes it satisfies everybody. Right. I think that's all that's it's good for. It's realistic. Yeah. Just making itself stink, that's all. So when the Wisconsin Central Railroad was building the line through the woods over here, they were going to Lake Superior or toward there.

It finished this 1872 construction season. The construction season like that.

Yeah, culminate in a Super Bowl of sorts to one guy let in nails driven. He was amazing. You should have seen him. He was like a machine. Yeah. He was the MVP of the league.

Did it against, as will you know. I mean, it was either that or death. Yeah. They dragged him here from China. That doesn't matter if they were. He was. Yeah. So yeah. They finished that with the rails completed right at Kolby. So that's where it kind of ended there. So the place Kelby's first name was you going to guess Jack's Town Section fifty three.

Very charming. That's charming. The section fifty three. It's very charming. You think about it, that's romantic. You set up A, B and B take you know. Really. Yeah. Honey, we're going to go to section fifty three this weekend. We're all the Roma. It sounds like they're doing nuclear testing. I'm fucking just barren. I think that's what we used to call New Mexico.

It's just barren and irradiated is what it sounds like. Like New Mexico. Right.

And instead section where the weirdest yet ever.

Oh Wisconsin. Wisconsin. But they rename the station in honor of the partner in the construction company that was building the railroad. And his name was Charles L. Coleby. It's old Chuck Colby here. He was the son of the railroads, financier Gardner Al Colby. OK, so basically that's how it became Colby. And then this guy became known as the cheese person, even though he had nothing to do with cheese, just railroads.

It just happens to be is the storage dipshit son. That's that's all it has a rich dipshit son. And now he's the he's everything of this is Johnny Cheese right here. So, yes, it's the birthplace of Colby Cheese. A historical marker in downtown Colby commemorates the development of Colby Cheese, really by Joseph Stein WOND in 1874. Now let's talk about how this cheese happened quickly. We're not going to talk much about the cheese. Ambros Stein wand passed his cheese making art to his son, Joseph Epstein WOND, who perfected a washed curd process which allowed Colbys characteristically mild.

Pleasant flavor is what they say. His process replaces way with water and reduces acidity. It takes slightly more than a gallon of milk to produce a pound of Coleby.

That's why it tastes so fucking gross. Yeah, yeah. It's all milk. It's all milky and gross. It seems like a lot of dough. Nothing to make how much and to cut the acidity. You want acidity, otherwise it's too mild and it by a gallon makes how much a pound.

That's a gallon weighs less than that. That's a fucking more and more. That's a lot.

I mean that's, that's, that seems to be they're trying to tell you that's a shitload of milk, apparently too much milk. So it's just too much. Too much but a lot of milk. And that was in Wisconsin. Just too much milk was. There you go.

So they call it a kolby cheese because a signed one. Nobody's eating. No one's eaten. The Olstein one is from Colbie. So I was at the cheese factory, which Joseph Steinhorn developed a new and unique type of cheese.

And this was this shit here. The taste became known in the neighboring areas and in 1898. And 1898 issue of the Kolby phonograph noted that a march is a newspaper, a merchant in Phillips Gives gives as one of 13 reasons why people should trade with him, that he sells the genuine Stijn one Colbie cheese on it. So that's a big deal. Now, after World War to the 40s and early 1950s, they had the cheese murders. Have you heard of the cheese murders?

No, I did not know the cheese murders was a thing happens every day. Yeah, it's the largest murder in the bowl. Usually, though, that's what it is that she's murdered this morning. A man who was a rough one.

I just hate about, I don't know, a quarter pound of mozzarella and a quarter pounder cheddar. You tell me that coming over here and you got here, like that's the most appropriate thing. You have no idea how appropriate that as you didn't know why. And then I'm like, Kolby, Wisconsin.

I see him go, oh, that's what it is. I'm going to cheeseburger when I get home.

So this was like basically like a 90s East Coast West Coast rap war between cheesemakers. We're cheese makers and workers for cheese became scarce like cheese makers. So they were like fucking like cherry picking the best while they were like bidding against each other and stealing each other's cheese makers to the point where it escalated to murder, to where the different factory owners were like putting hits out on other factory owners of cheese factories of Wisconsin thing. I've ever seriously want to get it more Wisconsin.

Do you know how they made sure to tell people that it was over cheese? I don't know that Brett Favre hired on Cameo with a cheese head on guard. Hey, brother, we gonna kill you over cheese, pal. You know that. Hold on a sec. Let me let me show you my penis, because I think you're going to want to see it. Now, let me get my Wrangler jeans open. I'm going to show you my penis.

I show it to most people. Right. I just used to send it to people, but I could get it out to more people in this medium. I like it. Did he write the winner of the cheese on his penis? They put. They put, they covered them in cheese. They put cheese over the bodies of shredded cheese on top. Oh, that's how they like the Dave Chappelle joke. Like single crack on. It's like that sort of thing.

That's unbelievable.

Eventually the cheese that's how they solved the cheese was traced back idiots to the factories of the people who left the cheese behind in the murders. So they figured out the cheeses were different. They I don't know if they got like a one kid who's really discerning in cheese and he's like, hmm, that's from the Jackson factory. I don't like that. That's the mild. I like that.

Now, of course, none of this is true. No, no, of course not. That's the rest of it was up until the cheese murders because this town is fucking boring and I couldn't find it. This is murder. Oh, of course not of cheeseburgers.

I just wanted to spice it up a bit, throw a little jack in my and roll Jack in that call, babe. Spice it up. It's all cheese all the time. I look for anything in this town that has something to serve as far as the information came into it. And that's why he's smart, like crazy. We besmirched him up and down. It doesn't matter. But my favorite, it's like, well, I mean, literally, it was like they found cheese and then everybody just shut the fuck up and made cheese and nobody had any issues.

So boring. Yeah. They're just happy eating cheese.

So and but now he's all right. I'm sorry. Unbelievable.

It sounded believable but stopped and went and searched Appalachians. There's got to be a podcast. I can't wait about it. Yeah. Like a nine part series on the cheese murders of the late 40s and early people.

The nice parmesan spread on their face.

Tune in for our new show, The Cheese Murders in the mid 20th century. Wisconsin will be released soon. We should make up a podcast, put it out and then and they'll be like, you're never going to hear about this. They're covering it up.

It's a big cover up. Like it's only going to find out how they how they put out Blair Witch and shit in the nineties like it's real, it's real. And just create a bunch of them to make a bunch of websites and social media pages about it and pretend it's real people. Holy shit. Funny thing is, Kolby Cheese is no longer made in the town of Colbie. Where's it? I know. Who the fuck knows? There's a factory east of town that cuts and packages it, but it's not made there.

The former Colbie cheese factory is now a dilapidated building. Hilarious. So it's not even cheese.

Enjoy your Kolby. Have fun, everybody. So I found a couple reviews of the town. They're different than each other. And one, they love this place. And the other one, they have a very, very distinct beef, which is always the best thing about it. Sounded like it was real convincing. It should have been good to have and could have happened. So I don't know. It didn't.

We've heard crazy in our town stories of people fighting over town records and, you know, people 100 hundred people dying over paperwork. What the fuck are we talking about? Sounded slams over business. So sorry, everybody, I didn't mean to make a run for the Google, their run for the Googling, as you somehow made a mother would say a story about cheese, not cheesy at all.

That was fucking brilliant. I loved it.

That's what happens when you're stoned. Three. By the way, that's edible. Should be kicking in any minute. We're going to have a lot of fun. So, anyway, five stars, this first review, five five stars, quote, a small, quaint little rural feeling town that sounds like small town murder.

Everyone knows everybody here. That sounds like a nightmare. You're surrounded by farmland, but have lots of good amenities only four minutes down the road and timed it before they did the reveal.

They had a little clock up for four minutes. Four minutes. I'm marking it. OK, I'll save it for the review. Four minutes down the road. It's a wonderful place to raise kids to. The school isn't really good, however.

Then how the fuck is it a wonderful place. Why would you want to raise kids there with a shit school? What factors are good for raising kids? OK, number one, is it dangerous for them to go outside? Are they going to get hit by a stray bullet? I think that's OK. That's one. And then two, how are the schools? They don't care. Only things that really matter. And they're like, great place. School suck, though, right?

OK, the kid's going to be dumb as shit. And job opportunities aren't that great here either. Well, this is sounding better and better. What are you talking about? Can't work in five stars, five stars, two things to improve on. But the rest, if you prefer small town living in Midwestern values, you've come to the right place. Oh, boy. And then this one here, zero stars. Yeah. Of went the complete opposite.

And it's a he's a one issue voter here. Quote Colby, Wisconsin water is all capital letters, not of good quality. OK, not dangerous to say, don't write a congressman or something. Put this on a site that shows town statistics. Let's review it there. That makes sense.

We'll help you quote. I've lived in Kolby, Wisconsin, for three years. And one of the first things I noticed was the poor quality of the water. It tastes disgusting. It is beyond hard water quality in boats and it causes our skin to become super ashy and dry. It has also damaged our hair tremendously. Wow, I know what you're thinking.

Quote, Maybe our home just has as hard water issues, right or wrong, all capital letters. It appears to have the same effect all through the tiny city of Colbie, zero stars.

I've I've taken a poll and everybody's hair is demolished.

I went door to door. We were that's from K. from Colbie. And it has 118 people agree. And one hundred fifty six disagree. So what the water quality is up in the air and call me really up in the air.

You could vote softener like that. That maybe makes your issues. It's as I have a water softener because Arizona's got terrible worst water fucking hearts in the not natural. No, you shouldn't have water here. So anything they bring in, they're like, it's terrible, right? Poisonous and smells like Cincinnati. So run it through something because it probably came here from Cincinnati, who knows? Picked up shit along the way. And that's why it's so fucking hard.

That's what it is. So people in this town here, nineteen hundred, they had six hundred and sixty seven people and then by 2000 or by now it's just two now. Right now there are two thousand people even. Really. Yeah. So nobody go or come or go. You're good but they're just keep it cool right now. Open up. Somebody just had a heart attack from too much cheese. Never mind. Fuck it. Nineteen hundred and ninety nine people.

It's up 30 percent since nineteen ninety. So people are coming here.

Why. It's the shit out of me. Think there's cheese there.

I think they're like let's go where the cheese is man. They get that only. What the fuck. I know cheese here. Like what.

We cut and package it here. I'll give a shit about how cutting and packaging. I didn't ask about that did I. That's crazy. So they make it somewhere else and then truck it here. Just a cut package. Say it's Colbie cheese right now. What to do. Whatever the fuck you do it.

You don't do that. Male female populations are pretty normal with averages here.

There's a shitload. The median age is about a year younger than normal. It's thirty six and a half tons of kids here. Lot of zero to nine year olds like double the amount and then there's triple the amount of eighty five and over people. So just elderly and and children and dipshits that have bad schools that have bad schools.

So those kids are in for a bad time with their terrible schools. But the old people, yeah, they're doing fine as long as they don't drink the water. So married population and all that shit, it's about, about normal. I mean nothing here is too far out of school except for there's less single with no children. People here. That's about it. Everything else is on par now. Race of this town. Seventy six percent white and the rest of the town is retired.

Green Bay Packers and Glen Robinson also came here, I don't know now 76 percent white, zero point zero percent black, actually zero zero.

No black people anywhere in of two thousand people in Colbie. That's that's interesting.

It's just the whole town is just white and there's well speckles of yellow with cheese mixed in with all white people holding blacks.

It's so that's what is point seven percent Asian. So not a lot of Asian people here either. Twenty one point four percent Hispanic. Fascinating. Which that's all. So it's just white people and Hispanic people. Nobody else. Yeah, very weird.

We don't we don't think we've ever had that before. And it's out fifty eight point two percent of the people here are religious.

So there's a little more religion here than normal. But it's kind of a family kind of. And it's where you get like it's mainly people with kids and all that Midwest values. James, there you go. Twenty seven point six percent Catholic. How about they beat the Lutherans by over ten percent? Catholics are.

Yeah, the Baptists of this country.

Yeah. I suppose Baptists love the lake. Oh, it's because of the Hispanic people. Yeah, that's why. Why did that happen?

And then 16 percent Lutheran, obviously zero point zero percent Jewish. Not into Kolby Cheese. Apparently not. Not kosher.

No, the Colbys not kosher. Everybody. That's what we found out today. And zero point zero percent in Islam as well. Politics suspended through the rest of twenty twenty.

You don't need to know. Look it up if you want.

I don't need to hear shit because someone stuffed with cheese in Wisconsin that I've never met voted a certain way.

I don't care. So unemployment rate here, how is that even on average? You have no idea. It's crazy. Do they blame you ever for me for delivering information? Get a message that is like, why do you guys do that? And it's like, what are you talking about? We're just saying a statistic. It's a. It doesn't even open a can of worms or anything. It literally no further discuss anything. We're just giving it.

That's how many people did that.

Rarely mad. It's just yeah, it's a lot of questions. And I'm like, I'm not prepared to answer these for you.

Help to tell what people are like there. I guess. So I get to ask you shit that doesn't matter too. Is that what the feds hate when you're at work?

I say you file that one report now. Couldn't you do that a different way? I mean, you could imagine you don't have to hand it physically to me. I'll take it on a PDF.

Right. Well, filing your fucking offending me, we do appreciate the passion. That's what's important here. So unemployment rate in this town is about normal. But like we said, we don't know what the hell that's going to look like once the stats come out for the whole year. Median household income here is a little bit low. Normally almost fifty eight thousand. Here it is. Forty five thousand even. It's a little bit low here and it makes sense.

More than 30 percent of the households here make thirty thousand or less. Really. So, yeah, that's there's a lower kind of a lower echelon of economic that's bringing people here in the structure. And manufacturing is 33 percent of the jobs, which is more than three times the average. So Noca, those are precarious. Those are good jobs when they're there. But if they go, then that's a third of the town's you know, they might work at two factories or something.

And then down the Colbie factor, it's it all the jobs are either manufacturing, making, slicing the cheese, basically cutting and packaging the cheese retail, which is selling the cheese and the least money. And in health care, which is the aftermath of eating all that cheese, those are the only literally those are the three jobs that are here. Wow. That's it.

Just in the in furtherance of the cheese industry, either care for the cheese or you care for the people that eat it, that eat too much. That's all you got. Now, cost of living in this town is about seventy seven out of one hundred hundred is regular. Housing is the low thing. That's a forty seven. So housing a super low median home cost here, one hundred nine thousand five hundred dollars, which is extremely low, unbelievably affordable.

That's and we'll see. It really is about fifty percent of the houses are valued under one hundred thousand dollars a lot. So it's a lot.

And if that's you are just you're Jones and for some cheese we have for you the Kolby Wisconsin real estate report.

Your average two bedroom rental here goes for about seven hundred dollars, which is kind of in line with the way the houses are. Why the fuck would you? That's the thing. I found a two bedroom, one bath, hundred square foot little house.

Nice little house, though. Eighty seven thousand nine hundred bucks. That's a good little starter house. You just get married or something. That's a good place to go. I found a four bedroom, two bath, six hundred eighty square foot house. So that's you can sell that one when you have a couple of kids and move up to this one. There's a big workshop out back like a garage workshop thing. I think everyone in Wisconsin probably has somewhere that the car and hang your hunting things I your carcasses in.

One hundred twenty seven thousand nine hundred bucks for that. So with a detached garage, a van, a big workshop. That's awesome. A very good value. Then I found a four bedroom, one and a half baths. Twelve hundred sixty square feet. Yeah. Not great but on one hundred and sixty acres of sweet crude just of forest.

So I mean you can just make as much cheese as you want out there. You could start your own avory family out there just to start putting junk cars in the backyard. And you can hear the Averys now hear you scream. Six hundred and fifty thousand bucks for that. It's a lot of land.

So I could see that things to do. This is I'm like, what do they have? Cheese days. Colbie Cheese days. The most popular thing originated in 1965 as an event to promote cheese and Colbie Cheese, which is the backbone of the economy.

I am shocked that there is a campaign to to to everything. There is not one person that hates cheese, right?

I think there can't be even people like cheese hurts me and I eat the shit out of our hair, even lactose intolerant people or Jim and that. Anyway, it's good. It's it's a mess your body wants. It changes everything.

It's so good. Vegans don't like it that now they like it, but they won't eat it. Right.

So they only do it for whatever reason. Yeah. It's still delicious. It's good for everybody, you know, out there. So the events include the ATV pull.

All right. That's some hillbilly shit.

I'll watch. Sounds awesome. Someone's going to wipe out themselves and get run over by someone else's ATV, so that could be fun. The Main Street parade, of course, street dances, the tractor pull once you've warmed up with the ATV pole amusement midway and a bunch of, you know. Yeah. Games, sure. You know, blow up the clowns had with the watershed and plenty of free kolby cheese says that I swear to God Street dances in the town.

That's 80 percent white people. No, thank you. White people eating cheese.

They're just farting as they it groovin and farting and not being allowed or rhythm in the Wall Street dancing along with down home cooking and refreshments.

There's no down home there. It's a weekend of entertainment and fun for the whole family. The events are register for Kolby Cheese days race. Yeah. And they have a race and another race and some book shit. Three on three basketball REGISTE registration begins with all those white people, a bunch of heavyset white people with very sweaty t shirts on that. When they post up on you, you don't want to put your forearm on them. The guys are still doing gym guys.

Come on, man. Looks better than with the guys with no shirts and having their back hair right coated in sweat that you have to get on you. Then there's a race and there's a bench pressing contest which is in front of the Nicollet Bank.

Hey, we're going to go bench press down in front of the bank. You could come in.

That's the most fucking goober thing I've ever heard. Set up a bench in front of the bank. So there's yeah, that's a wow.

That's amazing. And then the coal, the works, the five o'clock shift, she's hot. Just kind of compressor.

I'm going to be getting my pump on hold. Let me get some. Yeah. I need energy. Let me cheese up quick in the corner. Nick. Nick, I got nachos over here.

Let me tell you what the meat is.

So what else do they have.

Pedal tractor pull that's in front of the bank to peddle pedal things like a bank. The kolby dunk tank opens and then the kolby talent competition from central Wisconsin's Got Talent.

OK, I doubt it, but OK, not much.

Then there's an end a way in antique classic tractor show and then live music with the dweebs. Yeah, a variety rock band with a little comedy thrown in. Oh no. Shoot me in the fucking head. Play the song or we're out. They are you.

If you're not weird Al don't stop it. Stop it and shut up.

They are from Somerset, Wisconsin and a family band. Oh Jesus. They perform in crazy costumes and like to call themselves the American Party band. Hope to see you there. I would rather cut my own fucking throat with a dull steak knife.

Yeah, repeatedly.

Who the fuck know? How did you get four friends to do this with you. You. Family, they're all related. They have to it's blood. That's the problem crime rate in this town. What we're interested in, just a lot of cheese theft. Property crime is about twenty five percent below the national average. So it's pretty safe now. Murder or violent crime? Murder, rape, robbery and of course, assault.

The Mount Rushmore of crimes is less than half the national average. Super safe under half the national average. It's a safe little. Everybody is just got a cheese. How much you can't eat a pound of cheese and then go wilding out in the streets on murdering people and I'm going to go fuck shit up. No, you're not. You're full of cheese. Yeah, sit down. Your blood is flowing. You get up and go. Oh, Jesus.

Never mind. Hold on. I got I might have to put up some actually or never again. I'm not sure which one either immediately or next week. I will do that. I'm not sure which with what this cheese is going to do to me. There's no other food that does that is going to liquefy my insides or cement it. I'll be good. I can go like an Iditarod and not have to shit.

It's going to be like I drank or took, I don't know, a handful of Percocet, one of two, either one. So that's what's happening there. That said that, all taken care of. Let's talk about a murder. OK, OK, let's do this now. Let's talk about a couple of people. First, of course, set this whole thing up. First of all, we have to go back in time. Our story is going to take place by around nineteen ninety in the late eighties.

I don't know what the fuck was going on in like eighty, eighty nine, ninety, ninety one. But we've had so many of the craziest murders that we've talked about come from that few year period was angry people.

I don't know what was happening in this world but we people had like crazy ideas of how I got an idea. Right. And that's when like Jeffrey Dahmer was caught and like it's just that time period the happiest time of my life. I'll figure this out. Yeah, it's very strange. Now, I guess I was the happiest time of your life.

I mean, in general, growing up, I remember that you're happier now, I hope. Right. Well, I yeah. But I mean, that's the happiest time of my childhood was like early nineties. I remember like the coolest things happen. Yeah, that's true. But you couldn't pay me to relive. Oh I don't want to know my childhood that over again. I wish I could go back to high school. Not, not even for a fucking minute.

No. Especially with the knowledge of people like if I knew what I knew now I go back. No, if I knew what I knew now I would strangle people in high school. I was like, do you know how useless this fucking is? You have any idea? Yeah, I know what I'm going to use from this. And it's very little. It is very little. You have no idea this. I would have dropped out like I said this before I dropped out in the eighth grade if I knew this is going to be my fucking life because I don't need I can read.

And that's pretty much all I need at this point.

I mean, I did about as funny anyway as you can to graduate, so I wouldn't I would never imagine doing that again. Imagine imagine people that are in like groups and shit in high school, you know what I mean. Like yeah. Yeah. Societies or whatever the fuck they're called. Yeah. I always I just looked at them like and I wasn't, it wasn't like, oh fuck those people.

I was always like, wow, how did they know. Like when to go sign up and stuff like that, you know that exists. I didn't know that existed. I didn't know until you told me you were a part of. That's what I mean. Like how did you know? That's what I always used to think of is how did you know to do that? How did you know to sign up for that? Where did you go? Right.

Did you look what day did they talk about this then? I was I am there was no they they kept it from me intentionally. Like, don't tell him about it. I often the counselors tell kids, like, you would be good for this because I know that you're smart people like they don't tell me tell people like us they weren't telling anything. They were like, no, no, school's over two thirty and then you go home. That's how it works here.

The fuck out of here. That's how it works. Then you go home and then you come back the next day, the only the classes you're scheduled for, then leave. These are for kids that we know are going to be lawyers later. They're for you.

They're trying to say you're not they're going to matter.

That's what our high school existence was. Anyway, let's talk about some people. Let's talk about a guy. First name Dean Allen, OK? He's not a not a dean. His name is Dean Garland, which he's Dean Allen. Sounds first names. Yeah. And it sounds like like like an animal house. Yeah. He replaced Dean. Brian Dean Allen's in here now. Shit. Now how are we going to fool him. I hear he's smarter.

So he was born October 2nd. Nineteen sixty six, Mr. Allen. And he's a high school dropout. OK, ok. High school. Yeah. Drops out in like the tenth grade.

Oh though that's you know you're it out early. Yeah. He was like, I don't need any of this. You tell me about the Honor Society. It's like fucking quit. I already know. I didn't know about the chess club, you know, how to play chess, you know, but I would have liked to have known about it. You never know.

I could have drama club. I knew that it existed. I didn't know where to go. I could be a prodigy.

I've no idea. No one's ever given me the opportunity to try to think of that, too. Yeah. If there's any, like, piece of, like, crazy talent that you just didn't know how to unlock, you might be the greatest clarinet player ever to walk the face of the earth.

And you don't know it because you've never picked up a clarinet. I may have been. An amazing actor, and I just don't I'm not trained because nobody told me where to go. Well, Val Kilmer knew what he was fucking hate. How does a natural talent. You don't have much natural natural aptitude for that. Right now, you're fired. If as long as someone has the lines aren't in front of you, if you memorize them, you'll be fine.

But you know what I mean. Like some crazy prodigy thing like that for someone played on the piano and holy shit, I can't teach this child anymore like Bobby Fisher.

Yeah, it's I mean, I who knows? I didn't try anything. You know, we had Nintendo and it just fucked it all up, changed the whole game and I had shit that's what it was.

The problem was bored and I had other shit to do, you know. So anyway, he drops out of high school and he goes to the Job Corps in McKinney, Texas.

Oh, boy. McKinney, Texas.

Job Corps here in the early 80s. Oh, boy.

The yeah. The biggest fuck ups. Yeah. I've ever known Job Corps people.

I have talked about it in my job and yeah, I've met them. I had one living in my house for ten days kid. I worked with, I was at the Job Corps. I never allow a lot of stay there. And then I was like, you got a guy put him on a bus to Las Vegas. It's guy. I took him to the Greyhound station. I was like, I don't know, you got to go. Not here.

It ain't happening there anymore. They're not doing it. I mean, it works for people. I mean, they've done it, you know, their success stories, otherwise it wouldn't stop. Yeah, I'm sure. I mean, I guess. But the majority of people and I've seen Job Corps videos on on like Twitter and shit. It's just fighting in there. Oh, it's people all the kids that I have that was like basically they could go there or jail.

Why they were there, like they worked at the bar. I worked at dangerous people. Yeah. Like we just chose here rather than jail. And they were cool. I hung out with them one my house. But you know, it's still it was like, you know, fuck man, this place is crazy. Yeah.

So while he's there, he meets a young lady because the ladies of Job Corps. Yeah. Are a special breed.

They put out the way an involuntarily young and that's the problem is he's laughing. Oh, you see, that's not funny, but not surprising and probably more true to depressing. What's that edible there anyway? What happens? I got to be careful. So yeah, that's it. Yeah. He meets this young lady and we don't she's not had any of those problems that we know. By the way, I just. So that was just a just side and a side.

So his name is Dean Allen. Her name is Janice Allen. Well that works. Same fucking spelling and everything.

I do some questioning real quick. Where's your mom from?

And mine's from here, like on Reno nine one one where there's you got an uncle somewhere.

Got what happened there. Yeah. Oh shit. You're my cousins. Let's start asking some questions.

Apparently they are not related at all so. But they have the same balance of common last name, especially a LLN split.

So they're there, they end up getting together and within a year they get married. Wow. He is sixteen years old and she is twenty years old. Oh well good for him first of all.

Yeah he's SAIC's, she's, but she's got some experience. She's you know, a teenage young lady in the Job Corps is usually he just been I don't mean sexual experience is world experience. She's she's seen some shit. That's what I mean.

She's done things. She's seen things. So they end up getting together here and they get married. April 28th. Nineteen eighty three in Texas, in Texas, down in McKinney, Texas, which is I guess near Dallas. He's sixteen. She's twenty. His mom had to sign the papers for it because he was under eight years old. Yeah, because he's sixteen. So yeah. That, it's that way. That's what I mean. That's really impressive.

Well I mean if it was the other way around, we'd be like, what jail can we put him out? I mean, where is this real good for him? It's not weird because. Yeah, because we were sixteen. Yeah. That's why I was a sixteen and I have a teenage son now. My son is thirteen and when he's sixteen I wouldn't be like, oh my God, you've, you know, assaulted him. He was eight.

It's a different story obviously.

But sixteen and sixteen year old boy is is different than a 16 year old girl, right.

Yeah. In terms of like I would say in terms of like I don't know, a sixteen year old boy doesn't even need to be kept in the house.

They could be kept like on a dog chain with a bowl outside as long as they had something to hump every once in a while they'd be fine.

Way different than a 16 year old girl. Yeah, that's why sixteen year old boys are animals. I've been a sixteen year old boy. We were animals. Just a pure.

The other part is disgusting. A girl can do a lot of things to maintain her life and her trajectory forward. What am I trying to say? I don't know.

I have no idea. I'd love to know. It can be fucked up, Rostami. I can find it. Yeah dude. Stay into too too long. You know what I'm saying. Like words like. Yes, yes you're right. And then he can run away and to be seen again. Yeah. There's a lot more that she's stuck with this child. There's. Yeah, there's a lot more girls life up, a lot easier. Well, they have they have a physical way of have a physical way of anchoring responsibility to them.

So it's a different it's a different thing. Yeah. A young a teenage boy has a way different mindset with the world because they can just go, I'm going to spread my seed. That's great. But what about the consequences of the people? You're fucking dropping it in as well. So that's that's why teenage boys don't think of that shit.

And even if she's mature enough to handle that responsibility in the next nine months, she still has nine months that she's got to deal with stuff. And it's not a response.

It's hard. And some women do it. And that's like, wow, did you hear those stories of like somebody is successful? And like, my mom was like a single mom at 60 and raised like, Jesus Christ, that's a fucking poof.

My mother is blown away. She made it not bad.

It's impressive. Shit is so he says or his or her mom, his mom says, quote, I really didn't want him to get married, but they were living together and I wanted them to get married if they were living together. So that makes sense. Now he's attracted to her and it's easy. Their names are the same. So they get married and they have to do extra paperwork. Literally no name changes. That's perfect. Also, Janice has already been married once she is divorced and has a two year old daughter.

OK, so she's twenty year old Job Corps person with a divorce and a two year old at twenty and the Job Corps. So, yeah, she's had life experience is the best way to put it. Just general life experience that he just hasn't had. He dropped out of high school, went to the Job Corps. That's not a lot of heartbreak. No, it's just nothing.

No, we don't even know if he's gotten laid before or you know, we've also really the heartbreak that he may have may or may not have experienced at this point, mostly self-inflicted, it feels like. Yeah, you know, I mean, yeah, he kind of figured it out and stayed in school. I mean, granted, there's some environmental shit to stop it. But yeah, definitely for the most part, there's things you can do.

But as well, in his situation, the worst thing, because he had a his mom was there. He doesn't have like an, you know, a family life where it's like, oh, Jesus, his mom's like a heroin addict and his dad's gone. And that's not his family life. So this was a path he chose. And I think it was more of he wanted to do more of a vocational thing anyway. So school he wanted to be a carpenter.

That was what he wanted to do so soon and learn that. Yeah, he said, I don't need this. I go to the Job Corps, I'll learn actual skills, and then I'll just go get an actual job in the workforce. And also back then to that was thought of. That was a thing you could do. That was the thing you could do. And yeah, it was a little easier anyway than now. So there's other people that we're going to talk about.

Also, they have two more children of theirs, sort of. We'll talk about it. Yeah, two more children, both sons, Dean and Daniel. So like we know if you listen to crime and sports, the number one rule is not to name your kid after yourself, the junior, no juniors, bad things happen. And of course, this is a bad thing here. So let's talk about another fella here, Robert Pog.

Pogi. Yeah, Pogo. OK, you want to see him?

I want to show you this guy. Oh, yeah. Oh, now he's a drive. Just drive his hair. Alan Jackson wishes his hair was this.

It's a helmet. It is so much harder with a big mullet. He's got one of those big brushes in his back pocket. Those big, like squishy brushes wake up. Yeah, it makes the noise. Yeah. As he's going through his hair and it makes it tough. Here he is, the hair of a truck stop. Waitress It is amazing. Yes. Now your truck stop waitress now. Right. Or like a rock star in nineteen eighty two like I mean it's a fucking it's a helmet.

It looks bulletproof then Allen's arrest. Yeah. It's awesome.

Well even more now already. So anyway he didn't have great hair when he left. I really didn't. Well I mean he was sixty five. Twenty one from the guy.

This guy on the other hand though I believe in a warrior of a follicle warrior. Look at that neck not lying to. That's a scoop. Yeah. Hey I guess your body and his sleeves are short.

That's a lady's top. It might be. Look at the cut of the sleeves. Yeah. They're not to make fun, but that's a ladies wear. It hangs on the shoulder. It's a bit it's a bit over. That's a ladies. Yeah. Yeah. That's a big scoop. Yeah, it's a big scoop. I mean that's fine if you want to dress it up, but this is like nineteen eighty two and he's got like this big.

Yeah. He's in a mustache, he seems like his masculine guy and he's like hey I got this in the young Mrs. Section. Very strange. So now he comes from his family, used to live in California, very odd migration of this family and they're trying some little everything in this country, California to Texas. They lived in California, then moved Nerka. What is it? Nacogdoches, Texas. How do you say that? Oh, not go.

Not much notice. Right. Dock's Nakaji Dossi.

Yes, that is Nacogdoches. Nacogdoches. It's not the Chodas market show to southern Nacogdoches. It sounds like it like a compliment. Like it's the most Nacogdoches. Extra special, delicious, you know, making up fucking happy words. Well, I keep thinking Alamogordo or Algodones. There's different ones, but that's that one, is not it? And then there's also Naco, Arizona. Yes. That just doesn't have the duchess at the, you know, duchess.

Right. And what we're sans duchess in this state. But there you see Dock's Nacogdoches, Nacogdoches Noka Joe Dosis. It's Nacogdoches. That's the most Nacogdoches town and all the Texas browed. Get on down here.

You your you the scoop on. Yeah.

It'll be like nineteen ninety one like Dan Cortez will be running around the MTV beach house.

It's the stock toxic doses ever broke them. Pauly Shore. It's not kiddush so it's the weasel rightmost knocking come see son in law in theaters. That's the most precious movie you ever going to see. Actually more like Encino Man. That probably was. That's fine. So they moved to Texas where the pug.

Where the pug. The Pug. That's the name of his band where Robert Pog meets Dean Allen and Janice Allen and all those people and we'll find out how they all intertwine and marry. And it's a fucking disaster.

So but during all this is the rest of his family moves to Wisconsin from Texas. So they went from California to Texas to Abbotsford, Wisconsin, which is near Colbie. OK, so like it's like the next town over running. Those are very different places. I can't express to you how different those three places are from each other.

I can see that migration happening today, though, going from like L.A. and being, yeah, I don't like this. I'm going to Texas when they get there. Like, this is far too. This is Texas. This is too much Texas. There are people not dicks. Right. In Wisconsin. They're very nice here. They're very nice. OK, I got the Texas a little too much Texas. And by the way, our fans in Texas are fucking great coming.

This is a really cool and all of them are like, I'm sorry, you have to come here everyone to play. I'm sorry. You have to come here to do this. I know, I know it's not good. And then we'll be like, yeah, we got pulled over by the cops. All this shit fucking Texas hates us and they're like, we know every one of them smile. And that gets us to how do you like Texas?

Yeah. Because they know I'm and I hate you.

They know I'm going to hate.

Yeah. They know you're going to love. Don't even ask me. They're like I'm just talking Wolf. How are you doing with this.

How much tax is this for you with a lot of tax cuts. We don't really know how you feel like. Twenty four hours is good on Texas. It's like Vegas. It's like, you know, Vegas. It's like that's just a lot of Vegas.

After a day, you go to Texas to monitor how Texas is doing and then you go, this is how it's doing. And I'm getting the fuck out of here.

Like the people used to go check on the Selma marches in the city and see what's going on down there. A drag on Texas, many fires. See what's happening, OK? Yep. Still still Texas, still having it gone. So anyway, they it's a bizarre state the way. Yeah, the way it all lays, I guess. I don't know. It's an interesting place. It's it's a lot. It's Arizona is kind of a similar place.

If you just mix in a drop of California, it's just very specific in each area.

They always say no. I mean, like, well, Texas is bigger than like half of Europe. So it's it's very different.

People are huge for fucks and there's a lot of desert between it. Nobody really.

Joe Rogan's leaving L.A. and go to Texas. I'm like, calm down. He's going to Austin. Yeah, that's going he's not going to Texas. He's not going to San Antonio. We're going to find him in fucking Lubbock when he starts walking down the river. Walk right now and tell them it's Austin and it's Austin's. We've been there. It's a pretty cool place. I bought edibles in the middle of the street that's literally in the middle of the street from a man who was wearing a hat with wheezes all over it like a peacock.

So that's not that's not really Texas. That's a little different than Texas. Not really Amarillo. No. I was like, this is this is OK. I like it when you see Joe Rogan in some ostrich boots. Yeah. Give me a call.

So when his family moved up to Wisconsin, he stayed behind because he ended up meeting a lady can talk about he met a lady named. And now people say that his most prized thing in the world here toward the late eighties is his two pet pit bulls. They're his favorite thing in the world. His sister Felicia says that he and his future wife here and he and and didn't have any children. The pit bulls were like his children. So that's how it worked there.

And yeah. So eventually, Jesus Christ, here's how this works now. OK? Pogue Robert Pogue is Dean Allen's best friend. Yeah, OK. He's his best friend for multiple reasons. One, because they're friends, but two, because, OK, Pogue was Allen's best friend and was married to Allen's Aunt Marilyn. Is that uncle so kind of, but his Aunt Marilyn is only eight months older than him, so everybody's the same age. This is yeah, this is when you start getting some, like, hillbilly math with the ages and shit.

Like you get ants that are younger than fucking. Yeah.

Nephews, right. When you're younger. That's weird. Some strange gaps in breeding. I don't know what's going on. So Janice Allen, who is Dean's wife there? OK, that's that now. OK, Alan's Dean Allen's mother, Judy Allen. Oh, I'm sorry. That's why this is going to be Janice's mother, Judy Allen. Judy Adams is her mother.

OK, Janis's mother, Dean's wife's mother, Dean's mother in law of Adams is Adams OK. And and well, Jesus Christ. Pogue and Dean Allen became friends. And then during the time Marilyn had a date, he had Robert Polk had a date with Marilyn, who was his aunt. Okay, so that's how that worked. And then after a while, that didn't work out. So Robert ended up dating Marilyn's youngest sister. And so that's how he became married to.

And so he marries, so to say, OK, Robert went out with one of Dean Allen's aunts, OK? And then when that didn't work out, I ended up going out with his youngest aunt, who was actually younger than Dean Allen, if I'm not mistaken. That is wild.

So that's how this all works. OK, do you have your board out and everybody got your your strings connected? Gross. OK, it's a lot of family strings. Spell gross. Is that supposed to do that? I think although it's the curse of gross spells, Nacogdoches sucks that it's Vals. Yeah. All right. So Nacogdoches good dad. That's spelled so. Yeah.

Dean Allen is the son of junior Judy Adams. So I'm sorry that wasn't Janice's mom. That says mom. Judy Adams is Dean Allen's mom. Judy Adams is OK. And Pogue, who was Robert's wife. Right, married to Robert Pogue, who is. Oh, Jesus Christ. The sister of Dean's mom. So, yes, he's married to Dean's aunt. She is nine months older than Dean. That's how that works.

OK, now, that's all right. This is fucking insane. It's too much. It's a lot. So Pogue is older than Dean, though. He's old. He's a few years older than than Dean and the aunt. And I think he's more like Janice's age. Got it. So, yeah. So anyway.

Wow, OK, so they ended up the two couples ended up living together in a trailer in Texas, in Nacogdoches at one point.

And Robert Pogue and his wife all in a trailer. Yeah, Dean Janice married couple Robert Pogue, his wife and all living in one trailer, two couples, one trailer, Nacogdoches, Texas, a lot of bodies not going to do that shit. Texas, just another. No, not no. Na na na na na na na na. Megadoses so so. Wow. One of the friends said Ann had taken apparently they had problems at one point and Robert and Ann had kind of split apart and so and took it very hard and her friends said they thought they'd get back together and you know, and was and was thinking they're going to reconcile this relationship.

More on that later. A little bit more about Dean.

Now, Dean's got some jealousy issues, as we'll talk about, because he's a child that's married. He yeah. So if you're married when you should be a sophomore, there's a problem, you know what I mean? Like you, you need at least emotionally immature.

Yeah, but the thing that they say, you know, maybe that's what high school is good for, to just the falseness of sitting there and listening to something you don't want to hear is the only training for marriage that you can really. And so he should do that. It's preparation for preparation for life. It's not just marriages. Marriage is part of life in general. It's preparation for life. Life is sitting there listening to shit you don't want to hear.

Yeah. So that's what you got to do. You're going like you're going to do it a bunch of this shit for the rest of your life. Just sit through it, motherfucker. So you know, the first incident that happened, 24 year old man named Steven Murphy had an affair with Janis.

Janis has a shitload of affairs, by the way, Janis, everybody, she works with Encounter's, she is just all over. God damn it, man, all over Nacogdoches.

Do that, find live that life. Don't be married and put somebody through. That's all the time.

That's way. He's like at one point he's in the army and she's cheating on him all. He's like doing maneuvers and stuff. I'm like this bar that sucks. So anyway but then again he ends up cheating too. So it's a it's a huge fucking these two. It's a thing if you get together at sixteen and twenty at the Job Corps, I don't know how stable of a marriage you can expect. And it might be that if you might have a few rocky years while you figure out how to be a, you know, adult couple and then who knows, maybe when they're thirty, everything will be fine and they'll figure out that they like each other and the.

I don't want anybody else, but they want that relationship and you're OK with it. That doesn't sound like he does now. Well, yes. Stephen Murphy is 24, had an affair with Janice Allen, and they ended up she ended up moving out and moving in with this guy for a little while in the fall of 1989 in Tyler, Texas. Murphy says that one day he was doing his laundry at her home there. And all of this all of a sudden out of nowhere, Dean Allen burst into the house wielding a pool cue, threatening to kill him.

So he says, I'll break this pool cue and stab you with it and all sorts of shit and beat you to death. And the guy's like, holy Jesus Christ. So that was one thing. Then there was another time when Janice Allen worked at a Denny's in Tyler, Texas, and had an affair with a guy named Joe Trejo who worked at the Denny's with her.

This is some low level cheating right here. This is like if you say, let's do a quickie, while the moons of my hand over my hammy are cooking at some low level shit right now, my I got to drop off this gland grandslam than you can do me in the storage room is not what you want to hear how you put together that lumberjack slam.

Yeah, I am just drenched in spending over the dry goods because I'm am here all fucking now put me over the powdered eggs. That's the powdered eggs and the I'm sure giant garbage bag full of hash browns. I mean sure. That's how they come at Denny's. Right. Sounds like like a like one of those leaf bags that people have in the fall back east. Is that giant or tauro on the side?

Yeah, it's a big Torelli bag full of hash browns. So that's how they chop them.

You you put it on the suction side, just throw the potatoes through it and it runs right in the bag.

It's works right. There's well, yeah, we just throw potatoes in that room and boom one after the other chucking them and that's how they come out and they feed them to you. Yeah. While these two have an affair over them. Enjoy them though. Joe and Janice had an affair. Now in December 1989, Trejo here was leaving Janice's apartment early in the morning, you know, obviously. Yeah. And he gets into his car thinking everything's all right.

And as he gets into his car, he hears a clicking sound and he sees Dean holding a gun to his head. Dean fucking waited for him outside and then put a gun to his head. Oh, my God. Ordered him to move over in the car, got in the car and drove it, started driving while they were driving a little bit. Trejo throws a cup of coffee that he had that he brought out with them in Dean's face and dives out of the car.

He gets out of the fucking car while it was traveling. Forty five miles an hour. Oh, good. Drive through the coffee just opened the door and fucking dove dude. Like that flash drive. That's a man who recognizes danger. He's like, OK, this guy's imagine the pump up. Oh yeah. Because he's well you can't just throw the coffee and the chicken out on the fucking duck and roll because then he's got a gun and his eyes are burning and he's going to shoot you.

So he's really going to be pissed. Now he's fucked my wife and burn my face. So you got to really like I got to do this in one motion. Move out. I'm out. Fucking roll, man.

Wow. That's a guy that recognizes danger and what he would do if he caught somebody fucking his wife. Yeah, this guy's going to kill me. He is going to dismember me.

I should probably jump out of this car. That's I mean, that's honestly a wild move. That's someone who is surviving right there. Most people don't have the balls. Yeah. Yeah. Most people have the balls to do that. They're like, I'll try to talk them out of killing me. I'm not going to dive out of a car.

Let's go in forty five miles an hour and fly to a sensitive side so then it gets worse. Try how once you've regained his footing, started running away and the car screeched to a halt and he fired three shots at him from the fucking car right away.

So this guy and good for trail. He was right. He was running guy. He's going to shoot him. Yeah, he's running away. And this is I mean, this will tell you he will never have an affair with anybody else in life ever again after that. Yeah, this is the end of it. He's learned any woman comes up and even smiles at him. He's going to go, you get the fuck away from me. Like, I'm just I'm I was going to ask you if I could take your order.

He's like, I don't care. Get away from me. I don't want to hear.

He's looking at left hands for the rest of his life. Gary, are you. Because that ring.

So anyway, he fired three shots. Then Dean Allen chases after him and Trey Hall was like limping because he dove out of a forty five mile an hour. It's not at his best running phase right now. So Dean Allen ends up fucking tackling him, catching up with him, wrestling around with them eventually, somehow, somehow they from a wrestling match with a gun and everything else, it turns into Dean, calm the fuck down.

And shelled out was like, all right, fine, we'll stop wrestling. I'm not going to kill you. And they drove back together. What the fuck is happening? They. Drove back together. He warned Trejo that he would kill him if he ever caught him with Janis again. They drove back together and he's like, you drive me back to my place and you can take your car and leave and don't ever fucking be with my wife again because I'll kill you.

And I'm sure Trey believed him at that point. Yeah. So this motherfucker serious? Yeah. He will kill me. I will not talk to his wife anymore. And he didn't call the cops on him. No, he just took it as I'm lucky I didn't get he killed somebody and they were like, you fucked his wife, man. Yeah. Like, you're lucky he didn't kill you. So happens in Texas. I think, honestly, someone said you're lucky he didn't write you.

That's. Wow, what a nice guy. Yeah. Like, honestly, in the end of it, it's like. I mean, shit. Lucky he didn't kill you right in the driveway. He I mean, he doesn't know this guy. Maybe he would have he could have said, I saw a man coming out of my home and the early morning I assumed he just broke into my house and fucking raped or killed my wife. So I fucking shot him in the head.

Yeah, that's all he could have said in Texas. He could probably get away with that if he said that. I didn't know that it's on his property.

I think it is. I didn't know the guy. I saw him coming out of my house with a cup of coffee, just killed my whole family and kids and took a cup of coffee. No, I don't think so. So anyway, the POAGS back to them. Back to Robert Annand. They have some marriage difficulties. And so that causes well, at that point, Dean and Janice are living at Fort Hood in Killeen, Texas, as he's in the Army now, while Dean is in the Army, they invite the Pogues to move in with them.

And that's when that's when they live together there. Now, Robert and Janis, at this point, Robert Pogue and Janis, while everything was going on, they start fucking each other at this point on. OK, so they're living in the same house. They start fucking each other. And eventually Janis ends up moving out on Dean and moving in with Robert leave, leaving Dean and his aunt and the house together in the trailer together.

This is a disaster Robert needs out of this. This is I mean, this may have been a blessing in disguise. You can just fucking walk away. Yeah.

This is, you know, so Pogue and Janice and Dean Allen for a while because when they had problems first and moved out and then Dean and then Janice and and Robert started fucking and so that's how that happened when the three of them lived together there. So this is a little bit weird, considering when Alan was in the was in. This is a known thing, by the way. This because this is happening in eighty nine. Back in nineteen eighty seven, Alan Dean was doing on army maneuvers in Germany and Janice Allen and Robert had had an affair then of course.

And she got pregnant. Oh no. And Janice's son Daniel was born the next year and everybody's pretty sure that it's Roberts because, you know, fucking dude was overseas. Yeah. But everybody just pretends like it's like it's Dean's, including Dean, even though he knows it's not has Hezekiah. So this is a imagine the seething and the bubbling under the surface and the weird vibes. And it's going this is a mess. It's happening right now. So he he said he always treated him as his own son.

He just pretended like he was a son, even though he pretty was sure he wasn't the son.

Yeah, the math doesn't work out. Just doesn't work out. Cauldron is boiling. It's a miracle. And now it's not so. And then also another weird thing, Alan. And later on, Alan Dean and Robert got in a fight as well in nineteen ninety early nineteen ninety, January of nineteen ninety.

And Pogue, Dean's aunt and Robert's wife, if you're, if you're following the tree, took Dean to a trailer home outside Nacogdoches where Robert and Janice were living because Dean refused to believe that his wife was having an affair and living with his best friend. So she had to she had to show him.

She had to go, trust me, he's my husband. I'd rather that wasn't happening either. But I'm taking you there to fucking show you what's going on.

So she he did. And later, Dean went back to the trailer on his own. Once he dropped his pants off, cut the phone line to the trailer, kicked in the door and confronted Robert with a shotgun.

This is left in the floor. Get a divorce, dude. It was a shotgun. A shotgun. Now, why? This is the third man you've had to threaten murder over because they're fucking your wife. At some point it's your wife, right? At some point this relationship isn't working and you're with the person who is not going to be faithful to you when it's not anybody else's fault, except for whatever you guys got going on ain't his fault.

It's not the guy at Denny's fault. It's not anybody else's fault. Taking it out on the wrong people. Wrong person. Yeah. He never blames Janice for any of this, but he threatens that's how he his thing is don't blame her. But threatened. You know, if I get the guy away from her to not come back, then it's over.

But it's like, well then she's just going to find somebody else and that's what she always does. So it's kind of rough here. So confronts him with a shotgun. The guy who also lived there with Robert, a guy named Sam Skinner, he owned the trailer. He he said that poked everybody, got so many goddamn roommates. That's what I mean. He said that this escalated to the point of he's pointing the shotgun at Pogue. And Paul grabbed the shotgun and they wrestled over it and a shot got the shotgun, was shot into the roof of the trailer, you know, blowing holes through the fucking aluminum foil.

It covers the goddamn thing, lifting thing off the ground. Yeah, shorted it all just fell down. It was just a flat. It was just a flat surface and it was done all the falls.

Yeah, it's like a cartoon. And they're just standing in there with a shotgun, looking around in their underwear for some reason. Furniture all over. Yeah. So yeah he shot a shot that went through the like upper ceiling and into the wall like that and no one was injured in this. So when he, the Skinner guy asked Dean why he damaged the trailer, why did you fuck up my trailer? Dude, I own that thing. And Dean said that that quote it was it's your own fault for letting that guy stay here.

That's what you're going to get. Fuck you. So February of nineteen ninety with no cops being called.

No, no. None of it. There is no police involvement in any of this. No one calls the cops and the police report fucking incredible. This is just people confront each other with shotguns. Blasts happened in the middle of trailer parks and everybody goes, I'm sure it's fine. And then they flick and keep watching TV. That's what's going on here.

This is not the Texas that Joe Rogan moved to. This is wild.

So February, February. That was January nineteen ninety. So February nineteen ninety. Obviously, things are out of control here.

Yeah, clearly. Yeah.

So Robert Pogue and Janice Allen pack up the three kids, her first daughter and the two boys, and move to Colby, Wisconsin together. OK, we're getting out of here. New start, new life. His family lives up there. We're getting out of here, getting away from this whole mess. OK, so they moved all the way there. POAGS mother and stepfather lived in Abbotsford. Like we said, they had moved up there. Right.

And they the Robert and Janice move up to Wisconsin. They stay with Robert's family for a little while, like a month or so, not even two weeks. They stay there and then they end up renting a one bedroom apartment with three kids, which I don't know.

Great, terrific.

Three kids, two pit bulls, one bedroom. That's not math doesn't work.

Five people, two dogs, one bedroom. I'm sorry. That's not good enough math. I'm sorry. I've never rented them. That should have been like, no, I've no, I can't do it. I can. You can have one child and one dog. Those are the rules. That's the other way. I know more than that.

Whatever money you give me in security deposit, you know that's not coming back. You know that.

You already know that you're caught between your dogs and your kids. You're fucked in a tiny apartment. It's at three, three or four and a half division street. OK, so if you have a half address, you have three kids is too many for a half. Right? For any address. That's a half and two dogs. Now, Robert, immediately Robert's a butcher by trade.

OK, very, very good. With knives you can make a lot of money. He knows how to take things apart. Yeah. Very well. Yeah, we'll put it that way with knives. Yeah. Especially especially in mammals and things like that.

He knows how to carve the Modern's and such where there's joints, how they come apart. Yeah.

That sort of shit. So he works in the Meat Department of Century Foods and Albert and Abbotsford and Janice works briefly at the Coleby Cafe Hoohoo. Yeah. And then later gets a job with at the same place he works, Century Foods. So Janice has a nine year old daughter, enrolls her in Colbie Elementary School.

Yeah, they're going to be Wisconsinites. Shit education. So they start packing on a couple of pounds. So. So he's a meat cutter. He likes his his hobbies, Robert. He has some hobbies. He enjoys. He likes likes him. Some loud music. Yeah. He's one of the luitel by the handsome speedwagon. Oh brother. You know what I mean. He's like his dream is to be like in Billy Madison when when Adam Sandler pulls up with the top Firebird and the like Oreo Speedwagon wearing out.

I think it was you know, it was stroke me. So it was. Oh yeah. Yeah. Fuck is his name. Yeah. I'm sorry, Billy. Something like that. But it's one of those speedwagon be like man as some kind of lifestyle right now. Brother, brother. I'll tell you what, if I had that, that sounds great. Yup. He liked he was real into like hotrod racing. He like going to the hot rod races and shit like that.

That's fun. Yeah. You hung out with this guy, you get down with us. So yeah, he seems like a good guy so brings our fun anyway. Bring steak to and he's going to bring meat. Yeah. And he said that he told his sister he planned to buy, they're going to try to buy a house in the area. That's why they rented an apartment for a while.

They're going to try to find something. So anyway, there he wants to be closer to his family. Makes sense. So once they move there, she gets, like I said, the kids in school and everything like that. While this is going on, though, in February of 1990, right after they got there, they just moved into the apartment. Janice starts writing letters to Dean and calling him on the phone, asking her, asking him to come to Wisconsin and bring them back to Texas because she doesn't like it there anymore.

She hates it. Robert told his mom also at one point, this is a quote from his mom. Quote, He told me she didn't like it there. She was unhappy and bored. I started to cry and I said, Robert, I don't want to lose you again because she was thinking he was going to go move up there. And this is when he just got back from the army or that's not I'm sorry. So she thought, you know, you're going to move away from me.

You just moved to Wisconsin, now you're going to move away.

Right. So back to Texas again. So she is indecisive.

She knows nothing difficult wants.

Yeah, she's a bit difficult so as to be married to as a spouse. So what has Dean been up to?

He's been working for a McNeilly now, which is a company and a man as well as a carpenter in Nacogdoches, and he has hobbies.

Let's get to his hobbies a little. He likes hunting and fishing and playing pool. Yeah, yeah. He's that guy in the bar hunt and fish and playing pool. Oh yeah. He's a good carpenter. Carpenter specialty is cabinets. He's a very good cabinet builder, which there's good money in that if you fuck. Yeah. You build custom cabinets, there is fucking dough in that ship.

So he works for a company that does that especially today because houses people buying them. Oh yeah. And that's all they're doing is they have a new cap every ten years as they need new cabinets. And first it's this and it's sad that all these aren't white cabinets fucking garbage.

That is ridiculous.

And then you walk into anybody's house and you can see those prefab OK ones. Yeah.

And you know, these were apartment complex ones. Yeah. Garbage. Particleboard. Yeah. OK, yeah. This sucks because most of every fucking cabinet I've ever had three do these cabinets. Oh wait. Another car.

They're particleboard three. Do these just come out and if you send them and they just disintegrate. That's not, not how this works.

These come out and go back in new one. Yeah. That's what happened to his mom said at this point right now and in February of ninety, he was planning on building her an entertainment center for her TV and VCR. That tells you what's going on here. Yeah, so Dean is working, like we said, for Leonard McNealy, senior. That's the guy who owns the company. And he also at this point talks to a police detective, a Nacogdoches police detective, Clifford Lightfoot.

He runs into him somewhere and he's talking to him about it. I think he asks him for advice, like legal advice as far as like how do I get my kids back? Seems to be the conversation. I want my kids. Yeah, my wife's in Wisconsin. What do I do? Basically when I allowed to leave. Right.

Yeah, but these are things that you ask a lawyer, not a police detective.

So what the fuck? He cares. So she took off with him. How fast was she going? Was it over? Is there insurance up to date? How are attacks? Because I can I can do something about the life's work. Well, I don't know. Sorry, she's above the law. So he told this police officer Lightfoot, this detective, that he was mad because his wife had run off to Wisconsin and he wanted his kids back.

So Litefoot because he said, I'm going to go get my kids back. Is that should I do that? And the cop said, no, you shouldn't do that. God, no, that's terrible. She's got them right now. So that would be sort of kidnapping, you know, especially if you go across state lines with them and stuff gets worse and worse.

Do you have custody legally? That's what I mean. That's fucking terrible. What he did say is my suggestion is I'd say get a lawyer and have them find out what your rights are and then file some things. Do you have visitation of your kids? That would be my suggestion. You know, as someone who gives half a shit about the law, you can't just barge in with a shotgun and say, I want my kids back. That's not going to be that's not going to go over.

Well, they're putting holes to the rennolds round in legal circles. It's bad.

So May of 1990 comes around all the way up to me. This this is still going on. She's been writing him letters. She's been calling him. He's been talking to his boss. He's been asking for random police detectives for advice. This is in Dean's head some May of 1990. Janice writes and calls her again, tells her, you need to come and get me in the children we want out of here. OK, so Dean tells his co-worker here, this is a coworker.

This is Leonard McNeilly. Junior is the owner's son as a coworker here, he tells this guy, Dean does that Janice told him that Robert threatened to kill him and Janice and was going to come to Texas and kill Dean and was verbally abusing the children. That's what he said. Jeez, Janice told me. He said he's going to come here and. Kill me, and he's abusing my children and I don't know what the fuck to do. This is ridiculous, particularly abusing Dean's son, who Dean who they call little Dean, who is not Janice.

You know, that's Dean's only actual. Yeah, Dean's only actual kid in this trio of children, probably.

And probably the one that is going to get the ire if a man doesn't like you and you see is your face every day in this child.

True. But we don't even know if this is true. This is what Janice is telling him. And Janice has a tendency to be a bit manipulative when it comes to shit like this and try to get what she wants by playing on a guy like Dean's emotions, especially because she met him when he was young and she's been able to do that for a long time. So Dean Allen tells McNeilly, the owner's son there, that basically it's either me or Robert Pogue at this point.

Right. Like, clearly he's going to kill me or I got to kill him. He's coming here again. No, I should call the cops. Maybe not if it's him or me, that's it. Like this isn't Deadwood. Like, you know what I'm saying? What is. McNeilly says Swearingen isn't coming for you with his knife. This is ridiculous. So he said Jesus Christ. So basically, he says, listen, I got a plan.

He tells McNeilly, he says, Janis, help me make this plan. He said, this is where we're going to do I'm he she sent me a key to their apartment up in Wisconsin. She mailed it to me. Basically, what she's done is she's placed a plastic pad on the mattress as well. OK, so nothing. I'll get on it. And she sent me a schedule of all of Robert's habits and work schedules. And she says that if I do it, she'll help cut up the body.

Oh, my.

OK, this is what he's telling a co-worker, like at lunch, literally, they're like have a lunch box open. He's got like a tuna sandwich. And he's like, so anyway, yeah, the wife says, you know, if I can up plastic down, she helped set it up and if I just murder him, then, you know, she'll help me cut up the body and stuff. Stuff. I don't know. We're going to eat those Cheetos.

What the fuck are you doing.

So road trip. Road trip. Right. So yeah. Dean said that, you know, the plan is this is what I'm going to do. I'll go up there. All I have to do is if I cut the body into six to eight inch pieces, you know, I can cut the torso into two pieces and mutilate Robert's head so they'll never know who it is beyond recognition. I'll just fuck up his face and take all his teeth out so they'll never know.

And then Scott free. He said that at that point he'll bury the pieces of the body all in different places. And he kept telling McNeilly, McNeilly would later say, quote, He kept repeating the words no body, no crime, no body, no crime.

So, yeah. CRISS-CROSS So this guy taking a bite of a sandwich is like nobody, dad.

Like, we need a new guy on cabinets because this dude's fucking crazy.

The cabinets are unhinged and so's he. Yeah. So everything here, this is wild shit.

So McNeilly, the coworker, said, I didn't believe Dean would ever do anything like that. At the time, I thought he was letting off a little steam and talking big. Some guy took his wife and kids and he's going to talk shit. I'll cut his body up into pieces.

There's a difference between talking big and no body, no crime.

I've heard people say they're gonna kill that son of a bitch, blah, but they don't say like we put a plastic pat down at his work. Scott key to the house. What I'll do is I'll cut his torso into two pieces, the rest of things in the six to eight inch chunks, separate them out, scatter them all over the county in different spots, and then no body, no crime. That's way different. Then I want to kill that son of a bitch.

I fucking hate him every step.

No body, no crime. I'm gonna cut him up. No body, no body, no crime. About six, eight inch pieces, no body, no canines. Like mutilate his face, no body, no soul. That's the worst Bob Marley song ever. No body, no crime. Hey, you wanna fuck my wife? No body, no crime. Oh. Oh, I never got them. It's y'all in Texas. No body, no crime fighting, no crime.

Yeah. Yeah, well, I'm a cop and I'm a carpenter. I'll cut him out to use my sore. Huh. No body, no crime, huh. I do it for the children.

Mr. McNeilly. Don't shed no tears. Don't come.

No cuffs. No, no.

This is great. This is fun is a bad offense. For this, I love singing Bob Marley and Jason songs, I fucking tons of edible pumping through me. That's wonderful. So no body, no crime. So anyway, he said, well, how are you going to cut him up? Yeah. And Dean said, you know, just like to see how serious is Dingo's while he was a fucking machete. Yeah, I use a machete to dismember him clearly.

And McNeilly said, man, you can't cut a dude up with a machete to be too much blood, man, to be blood everywhere. So he was just like fucking around with him thinking it's like, man, what are you talking? You can't do that, like poking holes in it. Like maybe go, yeah, you're right. But instead he's like, OK, better weapons, better. You're right. You're right. Yeah. Thank you.

Yeah. You got, you got points there. So yeah. He said he has the key. This is what McNeilly said, quote he said, I talked to Janice and she said she put a rubber pad on the mattress and then he said, you know what's really neat? Yeah, the carpet is red, so the blood won't even show. What? Isn't that neat? No, that's that's Nido. Peachy keen right there. Doesn't know the blood changes colors when it drives me.

It's not like it would. Yeah, it would still show up right on the its blood. There's going to be like matter in it to the blood. Is it blood red carpeting. It's perfectly blood red. It's matched to dried blood. It's wild. It's amazing.

OK, so Dean Allen's co-workers at that point started calling him Rambo as a joke. What's up, Rambo? How's it go in there? They started calling him Rambo after the shotgun incident. Yeah, that was like, yeah, what's up there, Rambo? And he got a shotgun wrestled and shot through a trailer and the first blood. Yeah. And now they're now they're fucking he's saying all this stuff. So they're just like, dude, this is this is silly.

He's telling everybody, I'm going to kill that song, bitch. He tells Letton. McNeilly senior senior is the one who nicknamed him Rambo after the shock of loss and owner.

Yeah, no wonder he's fucking nuts. Nobody's calmed him down. No, they're calling the guy and they're making fun of the construction site. No matter what happens, they're going to make fun of you on a construction site that's everybody should be forced to work for like three months in a blue collar job because they'd have a much better sense of humor about themselves. They wouldn't care if people break their balls. Right. That's why I like when we break balls.

We laugh because that's what you do. We've done that shit before in a construction site. If you're that guy. What's up, Rambo? He could have killed twenty people. What's up, Ted Bundy? Like they would they just make fun of him, whatever they could. They don't care. In the homicide book, they talk about some guy killed a duty work with on the construction site like and stole a bunch of shit from him and everybody on the site.

He this guy would carry a gun around on the site, talk about how many people he killed and everyone just made fun of him for it. He's literally waving guns around all the time. They're like, yeah, look at fucking Clint Eastwood out there. And they all laugh at him, a loose cannon. And that's why he killed the guy.

Unbelievable, because he made fun of him once too many times. So he shot him on the way home. So, yeah, this is a thing that happens in this environment.

It will it will humble you right up and make you realize how really how fucking hard this world is and everybody world doesn't give up. You're talk about your feelings. Oh, you're not special. I'm not special. Nobody special. That's what it tells you. We're we're all in this shit together when you work a shit job. So we're all going to make fun of each other. No one is any worthless together.

Hang in there. She gets worse. That's it. No shit.

So the McNeilly, though, he says, quote, He was always kind of gung ho. Rambo wasn't degrading in any way. He said I wasn't trying to degrade and we were just breaking balls, which is pretty degrading.

He described him, though, Dean, as a hard worker who just talked about how much he missed his wife and children after they moved to Wisconsin so much. And so that's all he talked about. Then he got into how to get them back. Now, a friend of him, a friend of his, who's also a distant cousin, of course, surprises. She's not married to somebody in this mess. Susan Whitaker, she said that Dean was depressed because of this family was gone.

And he also told her he was going to kill Robert Putnam.

He told anyone that would listen. And even the cop, he was like, I should just go there and get them. You know, it's like shit.

And I would be surprised that no cops were called about that. Yeah, except he fired gunshots at somebody, but it's still no cops, no cops.

She didn't believe him. The cousin he or she said, because I've never known him to be that way. She said that he was definitely obsessed with his wife, though she says anyone that knows Dean knows he's a quiet, unassuming person, not a dominant personality. Janis was outgoing and he worshipped her. He would do anything for her. As you see, you can kind of tell what who these people are in this relationship. She's the she's the she's the the mouthpiece of the relationship mouthpiece.

Yeah.

And he kind of does what he's told. And but I mean, that's just because he's younger, it's just kind of the way some relationships are like that. So you take on that's what it is. Now, another woman, Patricia Cooper, she met Dean at his aunt's house here and she ended up having he ends up having an affair with her. Dean, while all this is going on, he's so mad he's going to kill Robert Pogue and all this shit.

He also. Bangs his aunt's friend through April of nineteen ninety four, like a two week period. OK, sure she broke the relationship off.

Why? Because all he ever talked about was how he was going to kill Robert Pogue and get his life back.

It wasn't that it was weird that you were banging your friend's nephew. No, not at all. All he talked about was like after sex, he'd be like, man, that was good. I'm going to go kill that motherfucker in Wisconsin and get my wife and kids back.

You know, that was amazing, that blowjob. You know what? I'll bet Pogge just got a blowjob. Too much better get better at something else.

I'll tell you what. So she said, quote, He told me he was going to chop this guy up with a machete. And the only way he would take his wife back is if she helped him by sending a key to the apartment. He never showed no anger. He just talked about killing the guy. He was obsessed about it. I told him he was crazy. Fair enough. Now back to Janice. Through this time and beginning of May 1990, Janice tells the Colby Elementary School that her daughter was moving back to Texas when she she's her last day of school was May 11th and she was moving back to Texas.

She also and at this point, Dean Allen asked Leonard McNeilly, senior for some time off from work so he could travel to Wisconsin to pick up his family. So, Dean, this guy was like, great, that'll shut the fuck up about it. Anyway, terrific. He left Texas on May 25th to head up to Wisconsin in a car he's driving. Janice Allen gives one day's notice on May 25th to Century Foods owner Lawrence Larry said she has babysitting problems and can't work there anymore because she has no more child care.

Meanwhile, it's the same day he's leaving to come up that she's moving. No, she said, I got to quit because I don't have child care anymore.

OK, so Dean Allen arrives up there, arrives in the area in a town called Medford on May 28th. Janice registers at the Rudolph Motel. The Rudolph Motel.

Yeah, the motel owner, Allen Mochrie, he tells everybody later on that they were kissing, quote, like a couple of lovebirds, Janice and Dean were OK. And they have the kids with them, too. When they apparently they went to the hotel, they were went to the room with the kids.

They left the hotel for about a half hour and brought back a bucket of Kentucky Fried Chicken. And the owner there confronted them about leaving the kids alone in the room with their young kids. And he told them if they had been gone any longer, he was about to call the police on them because they were leaving their kids behind.

Why are you watching my room so carefully, sir? Yeah, so I paid my nightly fee.

How many people you think are staying at the Rudolph Motel on a Thursday night? They're the only ones there. What are they doing? Right. They didn't I don't see no kids and they took kids in a bucket of kids. What is that? Oh, that's chicken.

You never know up here. So they checked out of the hotel at seven thirty PM. They got out of there. Apparently they were uncomfortable with that with this guy. Yeah.

So they checked into room twenty nine at the welcome in the motel. Welcome. And obviously no towel. So they got in and motel in the same thing in Medford where Janice Allen, she used a Tyler, Texas address for the registration and requested no maid service for the room at all. And while they're at the welcome end, she and Dean planned to they wanted to confront Robert to scare him so he wouldn't come back to Texas to try to get her back.

OK, OK. We're going to scare him. That's what they said they talked about. OK, they said Wednesday, May 30th. It's Robert's day off. That'll be the good day to do it.

OK, so May 30th comes around. Yeah, it's a Wednesday. Yeah. So that means that that was a Monday night that they were staying there. The guy was just bored probably. So Monday are Monday, sorry, May 30th here Wednesday. OK, now what ends up happening is they are Robert is at the house with Janice, OK, the kids are being watched by somebody else. OK, now Dean bursts in the door. OK, confronts Robert.

OK, ok. Now what ends up happening is there's a struggle here. Now there's conflicting cases. But what Robert says is probably true. It will be based on the medical examiner's thing here. Basically, there's a wrestling match between them. Robert has a knife, OK? That's what I said. That's what Dean says. Robert has a knife, which he's a butcher and he has a shitload of knife. So that kind of makes sense. But that means he's sitting in his favorite chair with a knife nearby.

Apparently, he popped up out of the chair. OK, OK, he's got a knife. There's a struggle for the knife. And apparently at one point, Robert is has Dean pinned up against the wall and he's choking him.

So, Janice, this isn't going the way Dean planned out the way Dean planned. So Janice claims that she came up and stabbed Robert in the back with a machete. OK, OK. That's what she says. That's her thing. But. The medical examiner and Robert have different interpretation of it, he says eventually here he got the he got the the gun away from her. He got the knife away from Robert and stabbed him in the stomach. That's what ended up happening here.

Now, he says later on, I didn't want to shoot Robert. I didn't even want to hurt him. He says later on it'll come out that he had a gun. That's his original story that we'll talk about later on. He had a gun and he'll say that he wasn't even armed. Robert, he came in with a gun. He said that he had a shotgun. And we'll find out. A shotgun with a machete duct taped to the end of it like Rambo.

So, yeah, to the end of it, like like Rexhepi, I think there was an actual mounty.

I think his knife. I don't think I think it's a bayonet. I think it was a bayonet mount. I don't think he just duct taped a machete trailer park being in his trailer park, Rambo.

Happening right now, this is Panhandle Rambo, Swiss Army knife, duct taped to your Mossberg ain't exactly Rambo. Absolute Panhandle Rambo. We've had Panhandle's Samurai. This is Panhandle Rambo. This is pretty incredible. So, yeah, he says that this is what Dean says, that it didn't take but a flash until Robert had me on my back on the floor and he was choking me. He said he was choking him on the floor. He said, but all at once, Robert, let go, like, what the fuck do are we going to keep doing this?

Right. So he says Dean says, I was trying to catch my breath and I heard a high pitched squeal and then I heard a clanking sound. My immediate reaction was I didn't know what to do. I picked up the gun that he had to shoot at Robert because he didn't know what was going on. And then Robert just fell over. He said when he made when he fell over, he just made this high pitched sound four or five times, OK?

And then he was making a gasping noise. And he says that at that point he just died. He didn't move. He just laid there. Yes. He said that at that point, Dean said he went and found Janis, who was hiding in a closet at the time, and told her that Robert was dead. And they discussed calling the police.

He said they said, should we call the cops and just be like, you know, make up a story, try to claim some kind of self-defence or some shit? And they said, no, we won't, because then they would have taken both of us in at least for something. And what are the kids going to do? It's easier just to dispose of a oh boy, much easier.

So basically, he said that Robert tried to pull the knife out. Basically what ended up happened while they were wrestling the knife got in Robert's abdomen.

Good, deep, deep and good. And sliced some arteries, you know, made him bleed really bad. Now, he said that he didn't know what was going on until he looked up and saw the I think he stabbed him and who exactly was going on. But he said Robert was just trying to grab the knife and pull it out of himself like he was in shock, I guess. And he said that Robert, like, cut his hands on the knife trying to get it out and was like fucking struggling with the thing.

He said, Robert let out a high pitched noise or scream, which sounded like a wounded rabbit. Oh, by the way, you know who he told that to his boss because he went back to fucking work in Texas. We'll talk about it eventually and told everybody what he did. Holy shit. That's not all. He told him that. He also said that the day the day he dies, he'll always believe Robert was still alive when they cut him off.

Oh, Jesus. And let's talk about it.

What he said that once he fell over, what should we do? Should we go ahead with the plan? Yeah. And they said, fuck it, let's go ahead with the plan. He used POAGS, Robert's own butcher knives to dismember him. Horrible.

Cut his head off and held it up by the hair as like, look what I did. OK, then he.

Oh, my goodness. He cut him open. Yeah. Ripped his heart out of his chest with his bare hand and held it up to see what it was all about. Like, I don't if he saw Indiana Jones one too many times or Temple of Doom was stuck in his mind. He seems like a Temple of Doom guy does. He held it in his hands and remarked that he didn't know human heart was that small. Thought it was bigger.

OK, then we'll get to. That's not the worst part. Then he said the only time he was afraid was when he was sawing through the bones and he was worried that it was so loud someone might hear him and complain because it was late at night like he was sawing wood, he said. After finishing, though, he said when they were done, he was telling everybody that the butcher knives after that were so dull you couldn't even cut butter with him because, you know, he used them to hack up a person.

Wow. Yeah. What else did she what else did he do? Well, he sliced open his nut sack and ripped his balls out.

And have them for a while, and then he turned them over and started slashing at his ass, too, and was considering how to get as how to get his balls in his ass, basically, how do I do this? And was stabbing him and cutting him and all this shit and decided not to do that. Just decide to cut him up completely and keep the balls separate and we'll talk about that.

Yeah. This is so mad at this. This is crazy. OK, so then he got all the parts. She loaded the garbage bags full of parts and bloody sheets and towels into the car.

That was her job, I guess. And then they went out into the woods and we'll talk about exactly what happened. But they went and buried these different colors for different garbage bags. Yeah.

And we'll talk about then she rented a steam cleaner to clean the carpet, but that was later on. We'll talk about that and cut up the bloody mattress. Is that rubber pad didn't cut it when you're dismembering an entire human and and threw that away. OK, now Janice tells people because people are like, hey, where's Robert? Yeah. You know, because they didn't tell people where they were.

She tells several different stories. She tells Robert's sister that Robert left the apartment and she doesn't know where he went. They were fighting a lot and she just he just took off. Also told her then ended up telling the sister later on that he came home that night and told her to go back to sleep. When she woke up, he was gone and so were his stereo and his clothes and his VCR. So he moved out. He's gone. She said that was the last she had seen of Robert and that was that.

So, yeah.

So the cousin here came over and helped Janice pack up the apartment as if Robert left. She's going to leave, too, just like I guess I'll go back to Texas with my kids and my family's down there at the half address.

James, this is behind a half address. This was an upstairs. Oh, upstairs. So it's got top floor. So so this cousin comes in the house where they murdered him. There is still blood on the walls everywhere.

They have to fucking person was murdered. That didn't clean this whole audience and opened him.

But she wouldn't let she helped let her let this cousin help her pack. But Janice wouldn't let her help clean the living room. Janice said the children had spilled red Kool-Aid all over the living room.

They got a hell of a thing and they were fighting over it.

And in a super soaker, everyone, everywhere when it went up in the air, you know.

And also the cousin said, well, where's your mattress? Your mattress is gone. Yeah, you don't have a mattress. And she said Janis said, well, one of the bulls tore up the mattress while we were gone one day. So I had to get rid of it because it was just all destroyed. Yeah, that's how that went.

Now, Robert's mom here, obviously she's looking for her kid. Three days after the murder, Jannis visits Robert's mom and tells her that, look, I'm sorry I have to tell you this, but I have to be honest with you. You're his mother. You have a right to know this. Robert uses a lot of drugs. He's a he's a bad drug addict. He never wanted to tell you, but he ran off with a couple of people, some some check and some guys with his drug friends.

They ran off. I don't know where he said he was leaving and he just wanted to go do drugs and he'll never be back. So I don't know. Hopefully he'll clean up. I don't know what to tell you. Where are the dogs? Dogs are still there. Dogs are there.

So dogs end up at the mom's and shit pit bulls.

If they didn't do anything about it, I think they were with the kids and I think they were being watched with the kids.

I saw that happen. But if I raised my voice to you, Frankie would kick the shit out of me. Yeah, she probably. And she loves you. Right. So she anyway, they didn't the mother didn't believe her. She said, I don't believe that I've been talking to Robert all the time. He's not on drugs like I would be able to tell any. My son hasn't changed at all. He's been a guy that does that.

You know, there's certainly some red flags before that happens. Yeah. That's where the guy has it all together, shows up to his job every day.

And he's like, you know what, if I can can't take in a huge heroin is so much better. So much better. So the mother said she doesn't believe her. She I don't believe you. And I'm going to call the police. So Janis said, please don't because I'm going to go to Texas. And I just you know, I just want my life to be start over. And this was has been really hard. So the mother said fine.

And the mother says later, quote, I hugged her and I and I wish her the best of luck. And she said she had to go because her brother was there to pick her up. And sure, mother, you know, Robert's mother let him go, Janis, and move back to Texas together. Like we said, he'll end up bragging to coworkers while they drive back to Texas. They make a plan. Dean said, basically, I'll take the blame and you stay with the kids in case we get caught for this.

Like I'll say, I did it and you got the kids. And that's how we work this. So they get back in there. They move in a trailer in rural Nacogdoches. They're near the Shawnee River. Yeah, June 4th, 1990. It's been five days.

Robert's mother, Shirley, reports to the Colby police that her son is missing, hasn't been seen since he left work on May 29th. And detectives were notified that he was missing and interviewed a bunch of people, including his family and everybody like that. June 7th, sheriff's detectives here in I believe in Texas. Oh, no, they flew down to Texas. That the. Wisconsin ones, and they worked with the Nacogdoches police to learn where you guys are, so not know just how good this place is not going down.

Yeah, it was Nacogdoches cops I've ever met.

Fuckin a man, Nacogdoches. It's like Nacho dosis, man. I love it. So they they learn from the police down there where the Allens are living. They find them. We'll talk about they keep doing an investigation. Dean Allen's aunt, Maggie Ahmedzai, I'm sorry, told the cops that Dean had bought a shotgun a few weeks before before he went to Wisconsin. He asked to borrow an old machete. He had she had as well before he went up there.

Dean was living with another guy at the time. Everybody was living with his aunt at the time when he left about a week before he went to Wisconsin, he also borrowed a hacksaw to cut off a gun barrel and a grinder to sharpen the machete. Wow. He's short in the fucking barrel and sharpened the machete. Oh, boy. A week before, like, this is like, yeah, this is like Rambo shit. Like he's getting a shit prepared and he's like, you know, soldering things together.

This is crazy. It's getting his duct tape out. So Janice Allen's mother, Margie, told the police that Dean Allen arrived at the apartment at at 4:00 a.m. and this is what she was told through what Janice told her brother. OK, so she goes to the police and said Dean showed up with a shotgun. Pogue pulled a knife on him, and then that's what ended up happening.

So there's enough at this point for the police to get a search warrant for the apartment and in Wisconsin to at least see if they can get any evidence in what they find is a four foot by five foot bloodstain under the under the carpet.

Yeah, she had steam the carpet, but it goes through under that and it's in the service all you want. Same color doesn't matter. There's that's blood. That's a different. They put the that shit on there and they go, hey, look at that. You see the Lucite, whatever the fuck it's called. Look at that luminol. Also let's let the light thing is a lot of the well they used to do for the test, they do the swab.

There's just like a surface and seeing if it's what it is, you swab it and then if it's blood, it's kind of a different color, turns a different color of it, stays gray. If it's not.

So, they find that blood also splattered all over the fucking bathroom walls. Blood and flesh were found on the walls, in corners. Flesh was found in the bathtub, drowned God, human flesh and obviously blood and hair and everything else here. June 9th, nineteen ninety. They're arrested at about noon in Texas. They're driving down a rural road. And the wife, the kids, everybody's in the car. Janice and Dean and Jan and Dean, they're going to fucking put out a beach single.

He he wouldn't speak to investigators. They're driving an eighty one Camaro blue. Eighty one Camaro. Yeah, they are. Hmm hmm. Hmm hmm hmm. Hmm hmm hmm hmm. Hmm.

So and they find in there they find the stock and part of a barrel of a shotgun. Oh. And a bow saw you know, the bow saw a bow with flesh, blood and hair stuck in the blade. Oh my God. He cut him up with yard fucking didn't even. Yeah. Like he's sort of fucking like a piece of branch off the tree. That's what that is. If you don't know like a bow, imagine a bow that you pull back the size of like that with the blade where the where the fucking thing would be the strength and it's super sharp.

Yeah. Yeah. Super jagged teeth on that. He didn't even hold it off. He just kept in the trunk and was ten days. It's been, he's been driving around airable. Also found in the car was a work glove inside the work glove. Guess what's in there. Not me. Nope. What is it. A pony tail with a piece of scalp still attached to it. He took it. He cut his ponytail off of his fucking head and kept it as a souvenir with the head still attached.

With the head still attached, by the way. Yeah. Not only did he have that and hide it, he showed it to the people at work. He went to work and said, I did it. Look at the ponytail with the scalp on it. I killed the guy and they were like, yeah, I'm OK.

Nobody called the cops. Yeah, nobody called the gun.

No one said we should probably tell somebody that he murdered a man and he scalped him and he's got his fucking hair and he did God knows what. And we surprised and they were like mad. He's a good worker. He shows up on time.

It's not really I don't know what it was, but yeah, that's what it was. Later that night, Janice consented to a search of their trailer where they found a loaded, sawed off shotgun and a sharpened machete on the shelf of the bedroom closet. Also taken as evidence for Robert's Stereo, two large speakers and sixteen CDs believed to belong to Robert as well, stole his fucking those two.

He's got good tunes, man. Hey, you know what, boy? You know, someone's got good tunes. You take them by anybody. That's what you do. That is low. He got to me. He took his ponytail. That's pretty low, but a damn. You think she will do? I had to take it, man, you know, saying, I want to give me some of that. Yeah, but the first two metalic.

What else? Good music. And what else? Stereo. The whole stereo. Stereo, two large speakers and 16 seats there. So will take the body parts and grab them C.D. to load them on up.

Wow. When he's arrested, Janice smiled at the officers politely. Yeah. Just act like nothing was wrong. They said, quote, She seemed rather calm. That surprised me under the circumstances. I expected her to be crying. Surprised you should fucking terrify you. Yeah, that's that's a cold blooded bitch.

That's a sociopath. That's a scary person. They're both scary people. The police department inform Janis of her right not to speak with them. Obviously the right to be silent. And yeah, the one police officer got upset, the one from Wisconsin, because they said she's not a suspect yet. You just fucking Mirandized her, you idiot. Yeah. Because basically you don't have to Mirandize her till she's a suspect, but that's a real gray area there together.

I would think that he knows that she's a suspect. So from the start, she's a suspect. But until they start asking suspect questions, they don't have to Mirandize her. They can get background shit without it, which is still gray area. So anyway, they that made the police and was from Wisconsin upset. Janis said, am I under arrest? And the police in Wisconsin said, no, no, no, you're not under arrest. You're not under arrest.

And he said, quote, In fact, I said we're just happy she and the kids were safe. He tried to make it like, no, no, you're not in this at all. You around a fucking crazy. He's crazy. There's a saw in a ponytail back there.

It's got stuffed in a Leatherman.

Yeah. And also the police officer said the Nacogdoches police treated Janis roughly by raising their voices and yelling at her and calling her a street girl.

That's that's just I just picture that Nagato, you're a street girl. You live in Nacogdoches. You care for anybody that lives here is a street where see in this place.

So Janis here, what she had been doing since then. She called her friend, Pam Benson, a friend of hers, on June 3rd and said Dean had come to POAGS apartment at four thirty a.m., got in a fight with him because he wouldn't let Dean take his wife and children back to Texas. Paul pulled the machete on Dean, but dropped it during the struggle. And then Dean picked up the machete and hit Pog on the back. So POAGS said y y and fell backwards.

And then the knife dreaver drove into a more like in a movie. Yeah. You know, then it popped out the front.

Jesus Christ. While trying to pull the machete out, POAGS sliced his fingers in his hands and Jana said she hid in the closet while Dean cut up Robert's body, which is pretty close to what happened, except that Dean brought the machete to right. That's the only difference.

I'm still of the mindset that anybody that owns a machete is up to no good, that well, there's not a lot of fucking weird instrument to have unless you live in a in a like a jungle area where you literally have to cut paths.

There's really not a lot of reason to have a machete. There just isn't. That's a weed whacker is way more effective. You know, they make shit the plugs in the way better. Yeah.

And I like one of those than the hedge trimmer. Yeah. Go back and find another. Yeah. The way you see shit out of a machete and a fucking swinging a knife.

Right. Yeah. This is literally for fuck's sake what are you doing. Literally doing it with energy.

Like throwing an arm forward. No nothing has to be sharp as shit. Yeah. Oh yeah. Somebody that has that is a dangerous. You're sharpening it constantly. So Janice told Dean's stepfather in November that later on in the year that she was the one who fatally stabbed Robert and all the shit. So there keeps she's telling everybody either the right story or that she did it right, which is not the right story. She told another friend of hers that Dean and Robert were fighting when she tried to break up the fight.

She ended up stabbing Robert. And then Robert tried to pull the the knife out from the front and then Dean Allen cut up his body. So, yeah, then she told somebody that she that they fought over the gun. Robert, there was a gun there. The shotgun. Robert ended up with a machete in his back. Janice ran from the room. Dean cut up the body, put it in bags, buried it in the area. So that's the general general story.

Yeah. Yeah. She said that she was hysterical. This friend said that Janice was hysterical when she talked to her and she said something major happened. Dean made her help help him bury the bags or he'd kill her as what he what she told her friend. She also said she was scared to death and now she'd be stuck with Dean Allen for the rest of her life. And she didn't love him. She just told him to come back there.

Right. This girl, there are letters on file of I made him such a mistake.

I love you. Please come get me. We want to be a family with you. Like, there's I mean, they're there. They exist. She definitely told him that, you know, he's being bad to your kids and, you know, I love you and come get me. Definitely. So finally, yeah, she ends up spilling the whole thing. She says she tells Marathon County Sheriff's Detective. Out of here, this is Wendell Roddie, he's the one who was investigating, flew down to Texas.

He said that she and Polk had an argument on the 29th when he came home late with hickeys on his neck. He told her to go to sleep. And when she woke up, that's she gives the story again about the stereo in his clothes and everything was gone. Later that day, she changed her story and said Dean came to the apartment at one a.m. carrying a sawed off shotgun with a machete attached to it with duct tape. So that's how that came.

And this is while she and Robert were just sitting on the couch watching television, which is a wild entrance. So she looks at her watch and is awaiting him almost 30.

Dean told Robert to stay where he was, but Robert jumped up to Audin and grabbed for the gun. Dean tried to fire, but the safety was on. This is how inept this whole thing is. He's trying to fuck goddamn safety and he's wrestling it. This is absolute stupidity. So during a fight over the gun, the machete fell off because, you know, because it's tough, it's duct taped. It's not the best thing here. She next.

POGUE trying to pull the knife out of his chest and she hid in the closet. And when she came out, Dean and cut Pogue up and placed body parts in bags. So she was in the closet for hours then how long it takes to cut somebody up into four bags worth of parts a fucking long time and to remove the ponytail and cut up is not cut, is not two different things.

Ketamine's ass like Robert could probably have cut Dean up in no time, but being a butcher. But if you're not a butcher, I don't know if Robert's a hunter though, so he probably knows how to either. Well, that's going to take so much time.

Yeah. You're not doing. Yeah, it's a lot. Dean told her to triple back them before he took off.

She took them out. Make sure to put two more bags on the outside there, you know. You know, she worked at the grocery stores. She knows him and she's like, I got it. So, yeah, that's how that ended up going. He was yes, he was castrated, his ass was slashed and his ponytail was cut off and he was brandished as a trophy. Then what ends up happening is she and Dean drove to the rib lake area appropriate because Dean had talked about dumping the body into a lake where fish would possibly eat the body parts.

I think he knows how marine life works.

And I can eat the bones, but I'm not really hungry for people. It's a yeah, it's a it's it's not a full of piranha. It's a lake in the middle of mid Wisconsin.

So there's a croppy in there, for Christ's sake.

It's no there's nothing guarantee you'll really have a taste for human flesh. They taste it.

How big do you think the catfish are?

The wall. I will have the last word tonight.

They've tasted flash that this is a fucking mess. They are dumb. They're very well off our Job Corps high school dropouts. I want them to stop saying that those two were fighting over the gun. They were not. They were fighting over. You got the gun. Just happened to be there also in character. The third the third character happened to be very metaphorical in this situation. You should have seen that gun as yourself and like, what am I doing?

I'm as dangerous as that. I'm going to get both of these fucking men killed. This is the whole the perfect metaphor for this whole relationship is a sawed off shotgun, a sloppily sawed off shotgun with a machete quickly fucking duct taped to it. That's the perfect metaphor for this entire relationship because of everything that's happening right now.

It is a very dangerous weapon that's going to kill everybody. So they drove to the lake, but they couldn't find a place where they could dump it. There was no suitable place. So she threw Robert's wallet in a garbage can at a fast food restaurant just in the can there, and then cut up his ID as well, Robert's driver's license.

And she said she didn't help. She tells the cops she didn't help Denbury the bags. She stayed in the car to blow the horn in case anybody came along. She was playing fucking lookout, right. She saw Dean take a big bag into the woods with a shovel that he's that she purchased at Kmart. And he was gone for about twenty five minutes. When he returned, she said she was scared and asked him to drive her back to the motel after returning to the motel, he left again, was gone for about two and a half hours, got back and said he take care of everything.

Perfect crime, perfect crime, perfect crime, no body, no crime. He buried him in the cranberry box. Wow.

So, yeah, she says later on, the police, she that she saw POAGS ponytail in Dean's car trunk. She said she knew was hers because she would braid his hair after he took showers and she had made the braid. That's how she knew it was his hair. And so, yeah, she'd put a rubber band on each end and all that shit.

So now Tienes boss is like, oh, yeah, my father told us everything. They the cops talk to him. They go, he pulled out a goddamn ponytail out of a work glove. Right. Tsara waving that shit around the job site and he also had Roberts belt buckle with him. He kept that as a trophy too and showed it to people to prove that he did it. And in Texas they're like, all right, that's fine. All right, all right, all right.

There again. There he is. And also so also another coworker. And legendary NFL wide receiver Jerry Rice, his name is Jerry Rice. Was like, no, not that one. Unbelievable.

This is a 91 to like the peak of Jerry Rice's career. He's only looking guys like this.

He's ruining my life, ruining it, man.

This would be a mistaken identity of Jerry Rice as a criminal, a white guy in Texas. It was an electrician showing his I.D. to get beer in there like Sherbert with a real I.D.. All right, then.

OK, everybody. So where's Joe Montana? Is he going to be coming with you? So Ronnie Lott going to be here.

Tell me, you know, Marcus Allen, Brent Jones, come bringing up the rear.

What are we doing here? Tom Rathman going to come wandering in. I could do this all night.

So let's see if we are safer going to come. Dana Stubblefield wandered in here. I am clairvoyant.

Where's Frank Godor where he had to do that. Goddamn Colin Kaepernick. Neil all over the place about Lacau team. Fuck your Niners fucking. So he tells the cops. Oh, yeah, he showed me the pony, took the ponytail, pulled it out of a glove from his car trunk. He just kept it in there because anyone wanted to see it. He said it was cut from the head. He said that he didn't notice any change in Ben Allen's personality.

He said, quote, I never really noticed anything odd, just that he said he dunwoodie just that he said he'd done what he had had to do and he got his wife and kids and family back.

There was a change in his demeanor, not even smiling, did it? Just normal.

Yep. So after his arraignment on June 11th here, he's charged, obviously, with first degree intentional murder up in Wisconsin. They're going to extradite him. They're all sorts of motions. He talked there's they want to throw out he wants his confession thrown out. Of course he does, because they asked him, well, why did you cut up the body? And he said, I had to cut up the body. It was daylight. How the hell else was I supposed to get him out of there?

I can't just carry a guy out in the middle of daylight. It was fucking daylight.

I had to cut him up to get him out of the goddamn place de moron's. So he wanted that thrown out and that sort of shit. So Dean's mom, she comes out in the paper and says he's not he's not a killer. She said, quote, Dean's never been in trouble. Dean is not a cold person. He has a lot of love in his heart. And he loved Robert. They've been friends since they were children.

Even more questions.

That's what I mean. She said that she said that shortly after he was arrested, saying that Janice told him to come prepared because Polk was going to kill him. That's why he did it. That's why he told his mom, obviously, and he was going to kill their children, too. So, I mean, Mom, I had to go is going to kill my children or call the cops. So Dean was so scared, she said that he slept with the light on and only dozed most of the time on the sofa.

She said, quote, He wanted so much to have a home with his children and their mother that he was willing to take the risk of more than likely losing his own family, losing his own life and try and trying to have a family. She said he wasn't raised with his father and he talks about that often. Before he left, we talked about the risk of going to another state when Janice told him to come get her and the kids.

Robert family. Robert's family was from there and we thought it was out of his territory.

What year is this? Yeah, this is out of his territory. He's going to legally pick up. If you're going to legally pick up your wife that you're married to and your children that belong to you, you don't have to worry about whether it's his territory and his family going to be who cares? This isn't the eighteen sixties that fucking Hatfields aren't going to gather. What are we talking about? This is so stupid. So she said the hell this is great.

She he was so scared he was going to die that he gave me a song to play at his funeral. Oh what is it. Dean requested the song Life Goes On by his favorite singer, John Cougar Mellencamp. Life goes on long after the thrill is gone, Susan. No, that's called Jack and Diane after you kill Connor pitbulls. That's right.

Don't let her take them by the ponytail. That saying this. So Apple is hot out smaller than you thought. Well, that's right.

Well, at the end, she was 16 and never met that bitch. Oh, man.

What the fuck am I so unbelievable. Yeah, Janice told told her that she she Jesus Christ told the mother that she returned to Wisconsin to tell the truth about the slaying. She wanted to do that and all this shit. Now his mom is taking care of the children, including Amanda, Janice's kid from a previous marriage, and the other little, you know, non Dean kid.

She told me that if I kept the children, she was going to be with Dean. She was going to try to help him. Basically, you watch the kids. I'll go try to get Dean out of trouble in the court. I'll take the blame for it. And that's what she's trying to do to try and say, I stabbed him because there was a struggle. I didn't know what to do when it was an accident and blah, blah, blah.

She said she was the one who killed Robert because Robert was trying to kill my son. Robert was choking Dean and Dean was turning black and blue. Then the mother says, this is Dean's mom. I think that she and Dean both have problems. You think maybe. Well done.

Wow. That's some real assessment there. That's sharp. They both live in a fantasy world. He lives in one more than her. She knows him. He believes everything she tells him and always has. I think she just completely nailed the relationship. He's an idiot. He lives in a fantasy world where he wants to believe the shit that she says because he's an idiot and she knows she can manipulate him. So it's a very you know, she does.

She also blames Janice for the slaying, though she does say, though, that her daughter in law was a good mother to her grandchildren. She doesn't hate her, OK? She, in her own way loves her children and probably in her own way loves Dean. But I think that her mind is deranged. That's what she said there. That's crazy, too, because a lot of times when a parent kills the other parent, it effectively wipes out the both parents and one's in jail.

One's gone. This these kids had three parents and this just took them all three away. This is crazy. Yeah. Because they're all going they're both fucking jerks and they both need to go to jail. Obviously, it's a mess. And then her his mom said, quote, Oh, no, he says this. Rodwin says, I'm yeah. Through my mother, we tried to let the family know how sorry we are that this happened and we prayed for them all the time.

Robert's mother has told my mother she prays for Dean all the time. That's his sister talking. The Polk family also believe strongly that if it wasn't for Janice, this wouldn't have happened. You know what they still haven't done yet, though, found Robert.

They haven't found him because of him. They have nothing. Finally, September 15th, 1990, Dean agrees to assist investigators in finding him.

He leads authorities to a site about twelve miles southwest of Babcock along Highway 173. First, they don't find anything. He had a difficult time remembering exactly. The woods all look the same. So it's tough. On the second day of searching, though, they found the first burial site along a logging road about two hundred yards from the highway and some cranberry bogs. Dean told the detectives he dug away from the trees where there was no roots, and he had camouflaged the sites with dirt and leaves using a stick to probe the ground.

They found the first bag of body parts, the police officer said. I dug until I got to a little piece of garbage bag, and Dean became visibly shaken and said, See, I told you I wasn't lying. They believed you do. Don't worry. That's why they were out there. So they brought the crime lab people to recover the parts. Second burial site was three hundred feet from the first. They're two days later. They drove around the area before finding the third site.

And Alan was insistent that he didn't bury any remains in the area. But he did. But the cop decided to look in an area that looks suspicious and he did find it. He found dug down and he thought was was perhaps a small animal. But it wasn't it was more shit. I could see an identification of where a backbone would be. More people, not shit body parts. I took a little water on the shovel and threw it on and can tell it could tell it was skin is only ten days later.

Yeah. And it's in the woods underground, so it's going to preserve it a little bit in the cool. So it was Pogue's lower torso. A garbage bag was found underneath a rotten stump near the site. So then they found a fourth burial site. You know what they never were. Covered his head, now they got his head, they never recovered his heart, his lungs or his balls, he kept his balls, dude. Yeah, he did.

He kept them as everything else. They found it was in bags. It was preserved. I mean, nothing they wouldn't have put him somewhere on. It didn't just rot away. He kept his heart. He kept his lungs and he kept his balls as along with the ponytail for a reason. I don't know if he finally said, OK, this is too much evidence to have. Like, you know, hair is one thing, but an actual human heart is probably thrown out in Texas.

That's like along like some highway in Missouri or something when they were driving, but it was on his way to work. Who knows? I mean, he might shit. Who knows why. So the one of the sites they found with the body parts, a tattoo of an was found on an arm which matched POAGS tattoo. That said, I knew it was him. That'll do it. Once they found the additional grave sites, they performed tests and they figured out it was definitely Robert.

Wow. Because in court they'll try to say maybe that wasn't even Robert. And they're like, no, there's a tattoo. It's his tattoo. It's definitely him. Investigate and they got DNA. Later on, investigators resumed the search, though. They ended up finding more body parts. So four bags of body parts were found. Oh, I'm sorry. His head was also gone. It was not for head, heart, lungs, testicles, hands.

Yeah. Oh, it's missing. He did. It's very, very specific. Those are the things that were never, ever found symbolic and meaningful to him.

To destroy them. Absolutely. To destroy them or to keep them either one. To stop the identification with the hand hand in the hands. But he just this is fucking crazy, man. The fucked up part is earlier.

Two weeks after two weeks after this. This is in September. This happened in May 30th. They find the parts.

So two weeks after the murder, they had found somebody found a bag containing two blankets, two pillows, a bed sheet towel, socks and jeans with blood all over them in the woods and turned it into police. And they just didn't know what the fuck it was. They're like, oh, boy, now we know we're going to have a crime attached to that one of these days. That doesn't look good at all.

And Glen Mesnier, who is Robert POAGS stepfather, found the mattress on the side of the road that Jannis discarded on June 8th. He knew it was there, that air mattress, because he recognized it as the same one he gave to them. Why the pattern on it? He knew it was their mattress. It was cut up. Chunks of it had been cut away where blood was probably I would assume. Yeah, it's they said that if it wasn't for Dean Allen, they would have never found the spots, that they buried things.

They said it was very unlikely they would have ever found that no one maybe by accident someday.

So, Dean, what do you do at this point, admit cop a plea? Well, you do a newspaper interview, you'll get out. Oh yeah. He wants to talk. Oh, yeah, he wants to talk. Oh, boy. Where do you hear him? In court. He says people can't understand what I did, but you're not in those circumstances. You're not in control. You're not thinking rationally the wrong thing that I did, the dismemberment.

I did it because I was scared that was the wrong thing. No. Yeah.

He says he's a mild mannered, polite carpenter. He knows few people in Wisconsin. He doesn't want anybody to think he's a bad guy, though. He's literally worried about what people in Wisconsin think of him as a human being. Like, I don't I don't want them to think I'm a bad guy. They do. Don't worry. Wisconsin. Yeah, they the reporter even was allowed the reporter was allowed to be in the room alone with him in the jail, like the cops said.

Are you comfortable with this? And they were like they looked at him like he's not he's not a guy.

He's five foot seven. Fuck his wife. Yeah, he's not madam. He's five seven. He's not a big imposing guy, Dean. So, like, you know, in a jail setting without a shotgun with a machete taped to her, you're not real scared of this guy. He's not one of those people. So he said, quote, I'm not a bad person. I'm not the terrible person people have made me out to be. They want to make me like I'm a snarling, drooling, mean criminal.

I did it because I love my wife and my family. It's a tragedy. No one knows the nights I've cried myself to sleep in that jail cell.

No, no, no body. No. Well, I go, oh, John Cougar Mellencamp.

He starts singing just in court. That would be amazing. The singing life goes on. That guy picked Cougar as like a name. So what? So we don't confuse you with the other John Mellencamp, now a person on earth speaking. Ellen Mellencamp isn't cool. Johnny Cougar, when he first came out, it sounds like a cool rock, Johnny Cougar. And then he's like, that sounds cheesy. Mellencamp there.

Mellencamp And then he dropped the cougar because it means old lady that loves to fuck. Yeah, it's like, oh, I can't have I can't do this anymore.

He said that the police did not pressure him to reveal the burial sites. He said, I even took to the police, to the body, knowing what they would find. People told me I was a fool, but I believe it was the right thing to do. I wanted Robert's family to be able to bury Robert in that nice by January nineteen ninety one. Janis she's still free as a bird, by the way. Why? Charged with anything.

She moves other children into a rented apartment at twelve thirty one kick Bush Street and I'll be there. Aaron was that was wasa.

So how do you say access now, Wisconsin, where you say you lost your so she obtained part time work at a fiscals, I don't know, even know what the fuck that is. I don't know what that it sounds like.

They finger CATSA, doesn't it? Now, what are you going to do is there's a quota, so you're going to need the finger at least 60, 70 cats per day. Why do we do this again? Don't ask no questions. I just need them cats. Vangard, right now. Now, eight hours a cat finger. I need you to do that. No, I don't need you. I don't need jollier here. What are you, a reporter?

You said you worked for the state. You talk about Finger Lakes, you figure the damn cats. All right. So she lives on, but she needs a good kick in the book that she could fucking use it. So finally, March nineteen ninety one, she is finally charged on March 20th with party to crimes of first degree intentional homicide, theft from a corpse, transmitting false information regarding a missing person also charged with forgery for cashing Robert's last paycheck after he was dead.

Really fucking asshole. So dirty. So dirty. That's just doing it dirty. It's like how idea?

I have his pony tail, if that'll help. So fucking wrong, man. So Dean in court, he gets a change of venue. It'll be a seven man, five woman jury. You want this jury. If you're the prosecution, you want it to be mostly men. If I'm. Yeah, yeah. This guy cut this dude's balls out. You want that to be like, wow, this is fucked up, right? Because every guys I'd be like, damn, that's fucking over the top, bro.

Also under under the guise of getting your wife back and she cheated on you, like the sympathy would be would you go to that extreme and they'll be like, I don't think so, no. So I pre-trial evidence hearings. The judge decides that the search of the car was legal. She was trying to get the buzz saw thrown out and all the ponytail, they were like, fuck no.

They arrested you for suspicion of murder and searched your car. That is straight up. It's a nasty search and seizure. It's beautiful.

Also, they determine that two letters sent from Janice Allen to her husband, dated two weeks earlier, could be connected to the homicide before the murder there. They so they put that in there as well. And he decided that the motions that the jury will not be allowed, though, to view photos of POAGS body parts after they were dug up. The photos may be entered as evidence if the medical examiners testify in the trial, only to reiterate his testimony.

But you can't just be like, look how horrible it is. He's fucking look at it. It's a goddamn leg.

Isn't that crazy? So the photos Wisconsin blown away with that. The photos showed that this is predominant. This happened the year before Dahmer. I know this is like the photo showed that Robert was castrated and his heart and lungs were removed. Imagine these photos move his head, hands and testicles were never found, like we said. And they said the judge said it's inescapable that these photos would arouse the jury's horror and provoked their instinct to prejudice. So he did not allow those unless the medical examiner is also there testifying.

Dean Dean ends up testifying a little in his pretrial thing, just saying that because he was saying that basically he's trying to get his confession thrown out. So he's got to testify about that. Janice does not testify in this because Dean asked her not to. Yes. And stay out of this one, June nineteen ninety one. The trial begins for Dean. Now, this is a fifteen day trial, including three days for jury selection, nine days of testimony, and there's thirty four witnesses for both prosecution and defense.

And there's one hundred and one pieces of evidence, including a machete, a sawed off shotgun, a bow saw two butcher knives owned by Robert Pogue, POAGS, ponytail and glove. The ponytail is kept in three posters found hanging in Janice Allen's jail cell, which read Jan and Dean together forever. True love can be deadly. My God. So she's making posters about how they're Bonnie and Clyde, isn't it? It's a post office box, keys, letters sent between Janice and Dean Allen while in jail, by the way, they're exchanging letters.

And also when they were out showing where a chart showing where Robert was stabbed and dismembered, photos of a cut up mattress where he was dismembered, photos taken during an autopsy of his remains. Those were not shown to the jury. So medical investigator. Yeah, medical investigator in the cranberry tree and a cranberry tree and a John Cougar Mellencamp CD and a John Cougar Mellencamp CD. So the medical examiner testifies. They said, quote, Could he have been alive when they started to dismember him?

And he said, yes, absolutely cut off. By the way, the blood was. And they said was he? And he said, no way to tell, but definitely could have been.

So, yeah, while he's still alive, this is horrible.

Couldn't him have the fucking decency to kill the guy first? Janis had been receiving messages back in. Fourth, like we said, they've been sending letters through their cell mate that has was like a porter that gave it to somebody else and they have a whole thing here. Janice testifies. She testifies, though, that she stabbed Robert. This is like you testify in your trial. I did it. And I'll testify in your trial that I will go back and forth in that way.

I want to know who did who knows what happened.

Meanwhile, just how about we convict everybody right now? Is that instead they take the other out, do it. How about fuck all of you rather than we don't know. So you all go free. We don't know. So you all go to prison. Sorry, this man's missing testicles. Do you understand what we're dealing with there? According to our plan? Yeah, this is fucked up. She said that the whole story I already told about, she said she went into a bedroom to check on her three children.

Now the children are in here before they weren't now in this now all of a sudden, the children are here in this testimony and return to the living room to see them on the floor. She said. When I came back, Robert had had him by the sliding glass doors and was choking him. I thought Dean was already dead. He was making some gurgling noises.

Well, then he wouldn't be that stupid because you can't gurgle when you're dead because that's breathing, right? So anyway, I had a knife and I guess you make up whatever last gasp. I had the knife in my hand. I ran over to Robert and stabbed him in the back. Then she went and hid in the closet. Dean came in a few minutes later and said, I think Robert is dead. And I asked if that was if he was sure and he said yes.

So then she says that Robert wasn't such a great guy. You know, now that there's a new thing now, she says when the two couples were living together, remember that in the trailer and and Robert and all that while Dean was stationed at Fort Hood, while while Dean was off in Germany doing maneuvers, Janis said she was babysitting in their apartment complex somewhere else. When Robert broke into the apartment she was into, climbed through the window and raped her in front of the kitchen, said the whole thing.

This is this was she said at that point on trial, she said that's when she became pregnant and gave birth to Robert's son in April nineteen ninety eight. She said she didn't tell anyone of the alleged sexual assault. She was raped.

And that's what she said. Even though they were having an affair at that time and lived together, she said he broke into another house and raped her to try to make Robert dangerous. And then he'd never told. She tells her friends and her family everything, literally murder details. Yeah, never said this.

And then you had a baby with him and then moved to another state with him.

Yeah. Instead told the sisters and shit like, oh, my God, what am I going to do? I'm pregnant with his kid because we've been fucking. So this is not true. Basically, I hate to not believe somebody, but there's a pretty good pile of evidence that this is self-serving.

And wouldn't you tell the guy that's come in to kill him that so that would be a lot more motivation for him to to hurt the guy, you know? Yeah. If that's if this isn't the first time we've heard it, she said basically he told me he'd tell and his wife and his family that I wanted it and they wouldn't believe me. So she said she didn't have another sexual or sexual relationship with him until January of 1990 when she entered a voluntary sexual relationship with him, which is super normal.

Shortly after she moved into the trailer, Dean confronted them with a gun that was the fired in the struggle. No one was injured. So that was that prosecution closing. OK, this is fucking funny. He just says that he whips out the ponytail. He's like he showed this to coworkers as a trophy. Oh, my God. Ladies and gentlemen, this is nothing more than a trophy. He says if Dean Allen wanted to kill all this is this is the defense attorney says if Dean Allen wanted to kill Robert Pogue when he walked in there with the shotgun, there wouldn't have been a struggle while not if the fucking safety wasn't on at that point.

He called Janice and Dean, quote, scared to death kids who overreacted to violence know.

The defense closing here says that the evidence suggests that this was that Allen distraught that his wife, who he loved, was living with his best friend, acted in self-defense. He drove all the way there to act in self-defense. It's a long drive, a long drive for self defense. He did not plan to kill Pogue. His only plan when he left Texas was to get his wife and kids. He says that he was obsessed with his wife. His lawyer says maybe she wasn't the right wife, maybe she wasn't a good wife, but he loved her.

His love for his children and for his wife is a theme that's going to keep coming back throughout this whole thing. Yeah, and it does. June 20th. Nineteen ninety one is the verdict. Jury deliberates for five hours and not a big shocker. Guilty of intentional homicide here, among other things, burglary, gun shed, all that sort of thing. Robert, POAGS mother here said justice, I'm sorry. The district attorney said justice was done.

It was done on behalf of Robert POAGS family and friends who knew him not only in Wisconsin, but the state of Texas. Now, Janice ends up having to plea. They give her a plea. She pleads guilty to second degree intentional homicide there. So her sentencing comes up first. Roberts is delayed. Yeah, I'm sorry. Deans is delayed to like. Late 92, with weird super long, he ends up actually making a federal case out of it.

So anyway, during the sentencing, she told the judge Roberts mother made a plea to sentence Janice to the maximum, you know, maximum sentence, please sentence or she said she begged me not to go to the police saying Robert had a drug problem and left the area. Then they cut my son all to pieces. I never got my son back. She is not worth getting out of prison. She deserves life. I will accept twenty seven years because that's one of the things they're talking about, but not anything less.

I'd like to hate both of them and see both of them dead, but I just can't do it. I have to forgive them or I can't make heaven because the Bible says to love your enemies and pray for those who who, despite fully use you to call them, are enemies.

That's a hey, you know what? You're going to fucking talk the talk. You got to walk the walk, and that's walking the fucking walk. If you're going to be Christian, that's how you do it. Yeah, that's what it is. If you don't like that part, then that's you can't pick the part you like. If you like a more vengeful God, you're probably Jewish. That's what that is not. You are Jewish, but you maybe should be.

Not that that's how Jewish people are. But that's how that Bible, the Old Testament, is a little bit different, a little more salty if you want to get into all the lovey dovey stuff. I said that totally wrong. It sounds like I meant Jews. Jewish people are me. They're probably not what I meant, but I meant the book you're following is a little more salty, it's a little salty or a little more revenging and shit like that.

You know, God was a vengeful God. He was an angry man. That's right. So Janice said this is her plea. I had no intention for Robert to die. I wish that I could change that. His family was very good to me. I am very sorry for what they have been through and what they are going through. The judge also has something to say. Yeah. He says the same judge will sentence both of them and he's a salty one.

Speaking of salty, I liked the first estimate better. He's a salty Colby.

He says she doesn't share a common sense of decency and morality. It's her lack of acceptance to that view that adds to the danger. She is not only deceitful, but she is manipulative in the sense that she practices her deceit so convincingly. Mrs. Allen's efforts for months to conceal the heinous, almost unspeakable dismemberment of Robert Pogue provided sufficient reason here for him all. I won't want to give that away, he said.

He was struck by her coolness, her utter lack of any emotion whatsoever when she testified. And the dean's trial, it's it for me, became chilling, the judge said. He said that there had been no indication that Robert's dismemberment has excited any kind of horror or outrage or distaste in the defendant. And then he looks at Janice and says, you, ma'am, may certainly fuck off.

Yeah, 25 years in prison, which is the maximum sentence for that, plus an additional two years for theft and forgery, 27 years for her. But we'll find out she will become eligible for parole in about seven years. Yeah.

Oh, it's yeah, it's rough. Twenty five is that's crazy. So Robert's mom said she didn't like the plea bargain. She's eligible for parole. And one fourth of the sentence for this, she said she should have gotten life. Dean was the scapegoat for her, but I didn't think I could take another trial. It's killing me as it is. I can't sleep. I'm not eating. I only think about what they did. She just said, I don't care.

Take whatever deal. I can't take it anymore. Which happens to these people, the victim's families. Sometimes they're like, I don't care. Just get it over with. Long delay for sentencing. There's some complaints in the newspapers about the cost to house Robert while the sentencing is coming. It cost thirty eight to forty dollars a day to cost him to to hold them.

Told him the meals are a dollar ninety eight. Each is literally what they say.

Sell more Kolby what they've paid twenty five thousand forty dollars since he's been in prison for six hundred twenty six days before his sentence. Finally, nineteen ninety two Dean is sentenced. He the prosecutors asked the judge to set the parole because it's going to be life no matter what, but it's when you're eligible for parole. So they said please set it up. Forty years while the prison sentencing, the report the court had done recommended thirty years. And his defense attorney, the dean's defense attorney said, let's just leave it up to the parole board, retire.

Let's not make let's not make some overreaching statements here.

That's a lot of responsibility. It's a lot harder. I want to try to alleviate that. Let them decide.

So they say, Dean, do you have anything to say for yourself? And you're supposed to give, you know, pretty short, remorseful thing. He speaks. He does. Because sometimes they go, no, I won't I won't say anything which is dumb. But he does the opposite.

He speaks for forty five minutes. Forty five minutes.

He does a headline said, oh, he's and in his statement he rambled, he recited the Pledge of Allegiance. He's just having a ball, he's wearing fucking vertical streets, wearing jail stripes on a dress shirt to a sentencing hearing. I'm going to dress like I'm in jail when I'm not in. That's him, that's him. Wow, he looks like shit from jail, boy recited the Pledge of Allegiance, cited the US Constitution and referred to animal behavior, talking about animals doing show the mongoose.

It's a little wild. Yeah, the pledge allegiance to the flag. Second Amendment down there are. You know how it is.

You know temperance. You know about temperance.

You know, the military can't stand your place.

So, yeah. So he also compares himself to criminals who kill someone in cold blood while holding up a convenience store. I shouldn't get the same sentence as those people are garbage. I'm I'm fucking doing this for my kids. They're doing so. Yeah, they they he blamed Robert for taking his wife and his three children away from him. That's not good. Not good when you're asking for mercy. Said that Janice basically saying that he held my wife against her will.

And, you know, he's he was saying that he threatened to kill me.

So he said what I wanted was my wife. He blackmailed my wife for her soul, her body for her very being, he said. And then he said, Robert Pogue tore my family apart and destroyed our lives because he wanted to because of selfishness. I contend that my wife and kids were the first victims of this case. Wow, this is fucking balls. Yeah. Then he goes on to read from further from his handwritten statement that he loved Robert Pogue and was sorry for his death and the pain that he caused and all that.

But dismembering his corpse was the only way he could get the body out of the apartment.

So Topsy Chatzky, whatever he said when I saw him take his last breath, I knew it was a horrible tragedy. I knew the police would never understand what happened. They tend to not understand murder, dismemberments. They don't get that.

They're not cool like that.

Really, a lot of the times, obviously, this wasn't an enjoyable experience for me either. He said, oh, he actually said that. What a liar. Well, you didn't have to do it. And so his mother from the back of the room, Robert's mother screamed, Then why'd you do it? Yeah, thank you. Someone needed to scream that.

So the judge sits back and he says, clears his throat and he says, quote, The intensity of his rationalizations and defenses leads me to believe that he has no insight into his culpability and certainly has no appreciation whatsoever for his wife's role in this matter. He says that I don't have the words to describe such an abomination, frankly, Mr. Allen, he said, calling the crime. And then he said he called him atrocious barbarity. He said that he and his wife committed, which I think about, sums it up, atrocious barbarity.

He said that in deciding the parole date, he considered several factors, including gravity of the crime, the need for public safety and premeditation. And he said, though the Allens testified that Pogue was killed in self-defense, he said, I don't think so. I disagree. He said, why do you cut out Mr. POAGS heart, hold it up and contemplate if this is self-defense, why do you take a knife and slashes buttocks? If this is self-defense, then he says, we'll find out, by the way, what he would have gotten.

He says, You, sir, may fuck off life in prison eligible for parole October 2nd. Twenty twenty six was sixtieth birthday. Thirty seven years. He fucking banged them good. You did? Yeah, I got him. Good. Then afterwards to the press, the judge went out and talked to the press on purpose. You don't usually see a judge explain why he sentenced somebody with something. He wanted to. He wanted Dean to hear this shit.

He said that he considered a sooner parole date. He was confident that he was going to impose the parole eligibility at thirteen years and four months. That's what that's what the judge was going to give Dean until Dean opened his mouth. Until then, he said. But after listening to what Mr. Allen had had to say, I was convinced that he did present a substantial continuing risk. And the district attorney has argued and somewhat more of a risk than the prison sentence report had said.

So I gave him thirty seven years. Instead, he gave himself an extra twenty five years almost because he wouldn't shut the fuck up because he had to be an asshole. That is fucking wild.

He gave him almost a year, a minute and that's what it is.

And he deserved it. I should have gave him a year a minute assault. So he said that the broader POAGS mother said that she's he satisfied that he won't get out until the time is. He's at least 60 years old. And she said that she still has nightmares and wants the rest of her son's body back. She wants his head in his hands. She mentioned his balls, but that's understandable. She said Dean Allen knows how much I loved my son.

If he had any remorse, he would have told me where my son was. He didn't have to kill my son. He could have taken his family back to Texas. He did it because of hate. He didn't have to cut him up in little bitty pieces. He didn't have to rip my son's heart out. He didn't have to rip my son's lungs out. So September 1993, very quickly, Dean appeals, saying that his right to a speedy trial was violated because it took them ten months to sentence him.

So he said, I got why I was violated. So thirty four years, by the way, it's still until the parole that he got. But the appellate court. It said that Dean Allen offered only speculative allegations of prejudice, there is nothing on the record to support Dean's contention that he suffered anxiety with report to his long sentencing delay. They said basically, tough shit, asshole, go fuck yourself. You shouldn't cut up your friend here. So they stay.

He also tried to say that the mandatory punishment for the conviction was out of whack, basically saying that by saying that she should have got sentenced to less. And they went, Now you're good.

You're all right. You are not perfect. So where is Dean Allen now? Let's see here. Dean Allen is in the Stanley Correctional Institution. He is incarcerated as we speak. His parole eligibility date is ten to twenty twenty five. That's when his parole deal is. There we go.

Five years from like the last five years. By the way, there's Janice. Oh, yeah.

She looks like a switch.

Yeah, that's exactly what she thought. You'd see her. And you go you think she's going to whip a pen out of her hair and said, what'll it be on? You know, waffles are good today. So she, on the other hand, here, some of that long grits with that, she was released from prison. Yeah. Looks like March 15th. Twenty nine. Like as soon as she was allowed to be, she was released from prison.

She her current address is in Minneola, Texas. She's somewhere in Minneola, Texas. Who knows there are a fuck out. Anybody named Janis. Just nobody in Texas named Janis you should go out with because she is out of her fucking mind and she's like, sixty years all the time, too. So if you're an older guy, she might look harmless right now.

She's not. God damn it, everybody. That is Kolby, Wisconsin, and that's, God damn it, one of the craziest shit cases we've ever had.

That's one of the wildest things we've ever had. I think we say that every week.

But it's true we're topping it that Casey's is disgusting is that she's that they are equal. Yeah, they're equal.

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It's a Thursday night. Boy, I can't wait. I'm going to be a lot of fun. We're going to do the all violent felon edition of the prisoner dating game. If you don't know what that is and you fast forward to the front of the show, that is when we present Jimmy with four bachelors for bachelorettes, all incarcerated for very violent crimes. They're all none of them are like, oh, yeah, some weed on them. These are disgusting.

These are violent people that have done bad things. And I research them to make sure that they're probably guilty, too. They got convicted with evidence. I don't want to be mocking someone who was, like, falsely convicted in there. That's not cool. So tough. I do some back story on them, too. And then Jimmy picks somebody without ever seeing them just on their advertisement. They're for the prisoner dating site that they're that they put out, find out the bio pic and a decent person.

And then at the end, he's going to see not only who he picked, but who he didn't pick. And he's going to find out what they did to get end up in prison. And that's a lot of fun. We'll find out. Will Jimmy pick the pedophile? Let's find out.

Everybody, so far, I'm I'm fucking pretty good. Yeah. So that is all it. Shut up and give me murder. Dotcom, check that out. Might be different when you can't see the people, though. That's what I'm saying is I think you could see it in their eyes. So I had to get that to shut up and give me murder attraction to adolescents. Yeah. You see it in their follow up sites on social media as well.

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Executive producers this week are Chris Cotting. Hang in there man. Kirk and Shannon Gamon wanted him to know that Jordan Bennett and she says, Happy Canadian Thanksgiving. We know that. Hey, I learned that this week. Dylan Banfield, Banfield, Melissa Turner, Ryan Guest, Neelu Rafsanjani, Brandon Slade, Jessica like the Qaboos Al Margate, Gary Jojoy Brown, Matt Skinner, Holly Hounds Hounslow, Jennifer Hugo, Aston Austin sorry, Carter and Roth, Daniel Hirsch, Dan Clark and the memory of Brendan Lee stuff.

I don't know if you know this, but it does his angel nursery that sort of smiles and I think that's fucking sweet. Yeah, very sweet. Very cool. Thank you very much. Thank you, Cami. Jay, other producers this week, Kamei Jay, Alexis Fynn, Robert Wood, Thomas Smith, Ashley, Veoh, Kenny Jay donated both ways. Both thank you. Yeah. He was going through some health shit and he wrote me that he was going into apparently you seriously you guys take care of you because you take care of our stuff.

Thank you very, very much. Especially if you're sick. Honestly, Ashleigh, what does this tattoo. What. Oh no. Tatum Tatum. William Dick Menge. Rebecca Rose, Jason Kaluga. Fabián Bruisings. Molly Apple. Anthony Kendel. Daniel Morgan praised Brandon. What is this, Benneteau. Benneteau.

I mean, he donated both ways. Thank you. Brandon proceeded to figure out how to say your name.

Anne Boleyn and Anthony would no last name. Donna would no last name. Cindy Xang Kapela. What is this. Capato White.

What. Oh fuck off John. Daniel. I don't know. I don't take that. John He's an asshole. Liddick Sir. Liz Vásquez, Aleksa Montay. Happy birthday. Thanks for the Vásquez. Thanks for the drinks by the way. Also Eminem's with brownies inside them. Thank you. You're a darling. Tiffany Chron qu'est predictively poetic chichi. Hi, Peyton Meadows. Happy birthday. John DeLong. Michael Lambert. Budwood no last name. Joli close to I think Steve Huffman also LaNelle.

James Marter. Erica Stein. Joe Way. Samuel Deve Attack. Valerie Peek. Joanne A'Hearn. Madelene Nope. Yeah. Metal on metal. Madeleine brought Brianna Elizabeth Hamo HAMP. I think it's hamp god it Samantha MacKenna. Jason Scott. Katarzyna need Zilka. Wow. Getting pretty good at that one. It's every week so it's going to give me practice. Todd Roberts. I know his name. Megan Engle. Dan Ramsey. Ben MacDonough. Fourth anniversary with Jamie.

Happy anniversary. Haley Nicholas. Deborah Shuttleworth, Christian Bang Doll. That's gross. Dwayne Hughes, Stacey Arthur, Susanna Rodriguez, Rowand Billy Crystal Rhodes, Jason McNutt. Matthew long run. I think Andrew Wellman, Selina Schmidt, Liz Cecily John would no last names. Sabrina McGill, Jennifer Edwards, Mandy Knight, Daniel Chadrick Kayla Wherley, Anne Marie Bryant, Lynn Rock Star Minnoch. Tom would no last name Trina McElroy. Happy birthday to Tavia Hughes I think is that I don't, I don't know.

I'm a terrible reader.

Greg Workman, Katie Hinds, Deborah Waddell, Samantha Hogan, Caitlin Stein, Brooke Cale, Jenna Williams. Mandy Schmidt. Mark what Nazare. I think Nazare could be anything. Brian Wolens, Tyler Guille, Mary KIPP's sassily. Maria Shelby Calahan. Damon Thompson, Sally Pigeon. I think Kyly far, far, far. Jennifer Linden. Janice Hill, Virginia Harness. Diane Diana Post. Trevor Coons, BLIS Mendoza. Happy birthday, Alyssa Kane. I don't know, hashtag cucumber.

I guess that's what she's all right. Well, hey, she's going to she needs all the cucumbers, I guess. Katie Hennessy, Landen Rock and Gall and Gall. Melissa Wheeler neke be Dariusz and Soldier. Horen not going to fuckin Zawadski. There's no way that's not going to Zoosk, it's a brutal last name. You just click, Hey, you bailed on it. Just listen. I'll go half way with you. They got the zookeeper out.

Alyssa Alyssa, Alyssa Mitchell, Ben Burke, Andy Cotes, Joey Jet, Allison Ashley Haack, Harkey Haqq.

That's in a Democrat, Mark Warner, Taylor, Lanois, Deloney and Allison Hierarchs and Nikki Bishop, Lindsay Srodes, Jenna crowed and Andrew Fork's.

Christian Dixon also gross. What a lot of dicks.

And I know it's a lot of people. Lindsey W, Dan Evans, Sarah Lees, Ahmed Motza Moossa, Matt Club Club Klopfer. Clophill. Jennings Corso. Mike McCoy. Campi Wright. Dave Yamanote Yeah. Dave Yamagishi. Allissa McCoy. George Armstrong, Ryan Gandolfo, Jesus. Sarah Sarah Reed Jilian or Gillian Jett. Justin Henry Liani. Liani Turner. What. Chris Brud Wall. Amanda Rivers. Anastasia De La Cruz. Kyle Dritz. Goddammit Ryan the Harless.

You guys in a break Jimmy.

I was just having a tough sometimes you flow better than others and sometimes you can't even get a page turn there your hard times. Jennifer Hall, Brad Miller, Fernando Rodriguez, Jeff Redo. Do it, Jimmy. I'm doing my best doing. You're doing it. He can't. Fucking great.

Claire, Chad, Stephen Martin, Jordan Bailey, Heather, Heather Courey, Brandon Clifton. Carly Fahrer got him at Jeff Speed probably at some point. Elizabeth Taylor, Keloid Collodi call. I like call it dead even Meredith Bri leachate name Bowden. Sheri Sexton. Gwendolyn Wood. No last names. Sandra Rivera, Justin Hoague, Travis Boyland, Eric Leinen, Michael Meyers. Enjoy fucking Thanksgiving.

Halloween is looking for I believe.

My darling Christine Valdés, Chrissy Gunwales, Joanne Begley, Adrian Jackson, Sarah would no last name, Alicia Parmenter, Alexandra Fox, Michelle Reese, Linda nope. That's Linda Riyaz, Genevieve Zayla, Vin Reddy, Wesley Klein, Everton and Clean Davich, Clinique Clinic. Hey, Jamie Furch French Gharty Boehnke. God damn it. What Ilina Ogden Terror would no last name. Karen Howard. David Wallace. Jay Cham Elite Ishiguro. You go Chorost.

You sound like a redneck etchegaray Hujer. What some slant this morning. Most guys are funny and some kind of thing out of. How come you're a jockey. Yeah I don't know. Dave Brown. Aaron Clauson, Japanese the name. I think so. Phanatic then just how it looks is how it sounds. Kurosaki that's perfect that I be just what it is. There's no weird pronunciation there. I don't know if protegé though. That's the thing. Well then I can't.

They can't. The name can't jump out of a screen and write itself down for you. It can be easy to pronounce but not write down etc.. Colline Georgina Perkin's. Hurby Hirte Hurby Carlos Aaron w feel fear. What is this. Fondle me balls and dick be hard again. Oh well that's right. Thank you God. You unbelieve rock writer Richie Wilson. Richie. Thanks Richie. Thank you Kaylene. What is this. Gabriel Savanah Martin. I think it's Gabriel.

I don't know. Amber Thomas. Rebecca Grego. Anthony Phusion. Fiona Catherine Malone. Tommy Toshi Bratt. Nope, that's Bret Roberts. Goddammit, Michelle Crotty. There's no fucking way there's four forces in this.

Oh that's what sisters that's not going to work is the scissors are Hayley Irwin, Tamara Nelson, Kathleen Reistad, Curtis Deve, Cynthia Buckley. Damian would no last name. John Jalapeño Galileo. David H. Julie Fiora Fiorentina V.R. Fiorentina.

Hey Wealth Davis. Casey Roberts. Nathan Foster. Vivian Fernandez. April Kleinfeld. Timothy Jackson. The Third. Jamie Phillips. Diane Walker. Michael Netsky. Netsky. Sidney Vettori. Jessica McCollum. Catherine Mirror. Mirror Meet Maior. Hey Nicole Danzel found it God damn it. Kate Gabriel with no last name. Sara Forese. McKayla Robbins' Bruce Olivia with no last name. Morgan McKenzie. Jeremy Lazarus. Heather Miller Jaysus. Nope that's Hatsu. Scott Lopez.

Brice Richard. Richard what. That's a OK Jessica Wall Korski Zachary Halverson Pernot Pann. Not by o gotcha. Like sexuality. OK, got to make me pronounce that. Charles Gallagher. Rachel Belle. Zach Halvorson has said that Jenny Jenny Patterson rockin Jessie What.

Jesse Diaz Joey Jugg Loose Jugg Bugalugs Benjamin Jaccard, Chrissy Ross Kelly Corey Alicia Gabal, AJ Peak's Skylar McGee, Minnie Jean John Brandon Slade, Jimmie Rodgers.

Jennifer for what I Do Foxo James Monroe TJ seven Morgan Gram. Zachary Morgan. Katie Murdock. Kaitlyn Nope. That's Kelly Coulis. Mark Allen damn it. Lavender Lane dishing up CLECs. JESSICA What? Jarrod's AARON Nope. Irene You're on your own. JONES Hi. This is this is never going to happen. This one's hot. I know. Zazai Xandra Knebworth. Gadis Nope.

That's Megan Lambrakis, Austin Hendron Hanrahan. Cynthia Sheere what. Srei Indrani. Kara Anderson. Josh Cook. Christina nope. That's Christina and Matthews. Ann Marie Phillips. Whitney McGuffey, Kaid Westbrook. Andrew Hunte, Dana. Dana Williams. Kelly Miller, Cindy Jordan. Elizabeth Hornberger Amber Hayley Hatley, Crystal Gillispie. Lynn Solomon Cin Lenny probably L. Brown J.W. Twenty two. Kevin McMurry. Jill Murray. God damn it Jeff. Jenna. Nope. That's Phillip Phillip Mom.

Mom Mafalda for force. Michael Constable Jen with no last name. London Virginia. McKeyla with no last name. Rup Patel. Andy Goyish. Rachel Mace. Nicole Glass. Jen Bruce. Jenny. Gently, gently, Chank Ryan roomers Claire, hello. Fuck Denise, Gwen, Andrew, course, woman Jane Grizzard. Andy Garland. Abby Johnson. Douglas. Andy Nope. That's Travis Langley and James Pell. Jake Holt. Holt. Haski what. Koskela Koskela Davisson, Shannon Lardo, Shane Wheeler, Julie and Tina.

Nope, that's Tia Hellfish Aaron India's Das. Robert Laszewski. Neurally Bailey. Here's the thing. I wish I was an adult and had education. Alison Skillman, Derek McCloud, Miki Giovanni Garcia, Colleen Coash, Matt Cual, Declan Brooks, Declan Kerry would no last name and a list appeal to people to do pull. It's French. Don't look at me. Clark Foust Gregor's Brezinski What Notes Brasilia's Gurewitz. Grace Wilson. Sarah Gault. Jennifer Nope.

That's John Cunliffe. Brianna Rakova. Seth James. So Vashi Katie Kraven. Jennifer Wilson, Joe Gardner. See Almo, Amy Lasha, Joseph Reynolds, Jen Adams, CEO Simmo, Darren Dacey or PACY. Oh dammit. Patricia Maddox, Brandon Patterson. And it's also Moelis 16th birthday. So happy birthday. Thank you guys so much. I swear I will never go to school.

Thank you so much. Everybody can't tell you how much we appreciate. Hope you enjoyed the show this week because we are at a ball. That was too much fun. It was a lot, man. Jimmy, where could they get a hold of you? If you want to tell you.

Listman socks, Amaan socks on to it on Instagram. And thank you to there was a police detective who sent me an email about his form of interrogation that is just as fucking weird. He likes he used to take a wide scale and have people put their hand on it and then he'd tell them that he can decipher that thing at thing and the sobriety test work, that thing.

So I don't I don't doubt that at all.

They tell you which yet you tell me weird shit at Gympie is funnier. Just copy and paste my name. You know how to do it. You'll find us if you want to find us. Yeah, we're out there. So that's sad. Thank you guys so much. We really appreciate each and every week and until next week. Everybody, it's been our pleasure.

My.