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Toyota built for a better world this week in Sutherland, Nebraska, a scene of pure and unspeakable horrors found in a rural home, leaving investigators to someone who always seems so harmless. What could possibly have caused this regular guy to commit this complete and horrible atrocity?

Welcome to small town murder. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to small town murder. Indeed, Jimmy. Yeah, indeed. My name is James Petraglia. I'm here with my co-host. I am Jimmy Watzman.

Thank you, folks, so much for joining us today.

And another this is insane what we have today for I like I even need to say that it's every week. Guess what? If you're here, it's crazy. Enjoy. It's like, well, this week it's real normal run of the mill family. It's crazy, but now it's insane. And this week I would give it an extra insane on a one to ten. This is like a 308. It's a very high on the crazy meter here. But if you are just joining us and if you're joining us for the first time, welcome.

If you're coming back, thank you for joining us again, hanging out with us once again. First of all, I want to thank everyone this week for your reviews. They count a lot on Apple podcast, that purple icon. Why do they count? We have no idea whether we work there or not. We work here. We have a system, no idea. But for some reason, it helps drive us up the charts. So please give us five stars.

It helps out a lot. Also, head over to shut up and give me murdered dotcom for everything. Small town murder and crime and sports related and everybody. What you want to do right now is get those tickets for the virtual live show. Right, Thursday, October the twenty ninth. We are coming at you guys live, I guess. Sort of. And it'll be up for two days afterwards. You can see it almost live online at some point.

At some point. But check it out. They're the all violent felon edition of the prisoner dating game show, Jimmy. Four lucky bachelors, four lucky bachelorettes. And he doesn't get to see them, but he does get to hear their dating pitch right from their, you know, the prison dating website. And he'll pick a lucky bachelor and a lucky bachelorette and then he'll get to see them. ILGA You guys will get to see them. Everyone out there.

I'll get to see them before he does. And then everyone gets to hear what everybody's done to end up there. So we get to see if Jimmy's picked the most horrible person of the lot. That's always fun. Check it out. It's Thursday, October twenty nine. Shut up and give me murder. Dotcom had that right now. Also Patreon guys, we have a lot of really good stuff on Batory.

On the last episode, everybody was three. Three women decided that they wanted to resurrect Jack the Ripper. Yeah, this is like in the nineteen nineties, not even in the 80s. 90S. Yeah. They didn't even know who he was, but the the one woman thought that she was Jack the Ripper, his mother in a former life so needed to resurrect him and that involved murder.

And you have to fuck that guy really once it's the story is bonkers.

How crazy was that story. That was the last week's Patriot. And this week it'll be just as nuts. We'll have something Halloween themed. It's going to be crazy. All of that available at Patreon, dotcom slash crime and sports. Or if you just want to make a one time donation and have Jimmy mispronounced your name brutally, that can happen as well. You can do all of that. You've got PayPal using our email address, crime and sports at Gmail dot com.

Quickly, the disclaimer, this is a comedy show. It's a murder show. All sorts of murders happen, obviously, but it's a comedy show as well. We're going to make jokes. That's what happens. I mean, we make jokes about small towns, make jokes about a police force that screws up and, you know, lets a murderer go free for twenty years.

We make fun of murderers.

What else are we going to do about it? I'm not. We're not. Are you a federal judge? Can you not, you know, down there appeal? No. So we can make fun of them from our chairs. That's all we can do. But we don't do we go out of our way not to do is we try not to make fun of the victims or the victim's families because we're assholes, but we're not there. You have it.

That's it. That's how it works. Very simple. We have fun. We have a good time. If that sounds great to you, awesome. If not, maybe it's not for you, but I wouldn't judge too harshly. I would listen. And I think you'll find it's a little different than you think. It is a lot of fun around the margins. That said, the rest of you sitting out there, it's time to clear the lungs.

It's time to shout, shut up and give me my heart.

Let's do this shit. I like it. Let's go on a trip. I can do that.

All right. Well, let's get the hell out of here then. Let's get out of Phoenix where we are now and out of Montana, where we were last week.

I got messages about like Arby. Yeah, somebody from Derby sent me. Oh, wow. And, you know, I think somebody very few people from Derby, your last name was Winters or some shit I'm trying to remember now.

Somebody knows her from prison.

Really? Yeah. That's amazing. That's hilarious. And small world. And she's a lunatic. She's in prison. Yeah. Currently. Right. Yeah. It was out of prison. Not not the murder. The person who contacted you was out of prison. I don't want to say too much about them.

OK, they seen her. They seem to seiner i seiner. She wasn't right now she wasn't shot in the head. They say she's a little bitchy and nuts. Oh yeah. Well we know the one she's out.

Yeah. Yeah she's out. So yeah. If you heard the story it's I mean she's not a nice person. No. Thank you so much Rosewoman. Let's go to Nebraska shall we. No one's ever no one's ever said, let's go to Nebraska. Great. I don't think those words have followed ever. Maybe if there's money involved or coercion of some kind, if there's a deal, just, hey, let's go to Nebraska.

Great. Not now. So we are going to Sutherland, Nebraska.

I don't know. Never heard of that. Exactly. It's in western central Nebraska. It's the middle of goddamn nowhere. This place is very rural, about three and a half hours to Lincoln, Nebraska, over to the east, about three hours and 45 minutes to Denver. Oh, you know, Southwest the other direction.

So it's going to equal distance between those two and four hours or little over four hours to Verdigris, which was our last Nebraska episode where there was pigs involved and it was a disaster. No pigs this week. This is just all evil people here. So this is in Lincoln County, even though Lincoln's over there. Over there. I don't understand that pig is their counties. No, no. The Lincoln is not in Lincoln County. No, no.

It's not even anywhere near another. Like, let's not even close three, three and a half hours away. But they're like, let's name as many things after Lincoln as if we have a town in the county. Then it's all consolidated. Lincoln Town, Lincoln County.

He's probably got the most shit named after him right now because it's him in Washington. It's a hard argue. That's why other people on this one. Oh, Thomas Jefferson, he wrote the you know, the Japanese had slaves and shit. Yeah, you're right. That's true. And then people go, oh, what about this guy? But then there's this in that Lincoln, it's like we say, right? I mean, people say nitpicker about Lincoln, but I mean, as far as historical figures go, yeah.

He's one of the more bulletproof ones, no pun intended. I mean. Well, as far as reputation, that's what I said.

No, the only one we had on the other bulletproof is that on the other hand, you know, and I give. I give. I give. At least that was modern weaponry is like from the eighteen sixties. This is like a musket pistol. It's a no just one. Right. I think so. I think it's just one shots that I mean some pretty well it was close like a you know, I damn went up behind them like the mob hit.

Yeah.

It's a different thing. And he had like a hundred years handicap on the other guys too. Right. Well yeah. Right, that's my point. Like maybe he's the more impressive one because it's more that named after him and that's what I'm saying. He had they had one hundred your head start, the blue Lincoln. It's not like it's going to just so much name now that's running. It's the Washington and Jackson. Those guys that way more.

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. But that they I said Lincoln is not very controversial except in the South.

There's not a lot of syllables, not a lot named after Lincoln in the south it's noticed not a whole lot down there, but we're outside of there.

Everyone always seems to give us shit. They love it. Yeah, that's definitely subtly different. So this is area code three, 08.

It's one point three square miles. It's a pretty small town. The history of this town, there isn't a lot really in the history of it. It's pretty much just like the railroad came through. There's a town that's the history 1835.

Colonel Henry Dodge visited the visited this area as an employee of the United States government. Him in one hundred and seventeen other men went out for the purpose of and this is from the town's historical thing here. This is not my words.

This is theirs, quote, for the purpose of persuading the Arikara Indians then occupying this region to leave their wildlife and become civilized.

Let's go out there and a statement up there and ask them to come inside fucking, you know, put some goddamn pants on, for Christ's sake. That's basically what there's a very insulting way of saying we're going to go in. They've been living like this for millennia. But you know what? We're going to go in and tell them they're doing it wrong. She has no wild that shit. You're doing good. Talk them into that. They're doing it wrong.

You guys are doing everything wrong. Right. That's going to help some falls away and come in here and say, let's go. You're going to love it. Oh, you have please. And realize that he is going to sports and all that shit. That's all right. And everything is nice. Still, everyone passes is pretty good. I like it. Like I like the way you do things like your lifestyle like like Junior. When he goes to see Zach Galifianakis in Reno nine one one.

Oh I like your lifestyle. Lives in a fucking bus with eight kids is doable. Crossbows so is fast and is a very interesting way of putting the changing their lifestyle. And that's basically what you say to it. I don't know. Twenty eight year old girl that. Yeah. Dates a lot now.

I'm just trying to get a change of wildlife, change of wild lifestyle. Some. Yeah. Some guy. Yeah she's fine. You define out there on her own.

So he had apparently the authority from the government to give aid to the ones who should accept the offer. The rest of you can fuck off. So basically this is like a missionary thing, except without religion, it was just what's the offer?

You try to give them pants and if they take them, then you give them aid or to those ones, you give them food and they refuse the pants and they don't get food. Commence the fire and I don't know what's going on here, so he he camped with his men, Colonel Dodge at Cottonwood Springs, and then it was called Fort McPherson and attempted to hold counsel with the tribe. But they feared the soldier or soldiers and fled to the tent of the woods.

Yet the the local Indians, because they didn't know what the fuck these people wanted and there's a hundred something of them and they all have guns and shit fire rockets on their hips. What's happening here? Well, they knew what guns were by eighteen thirty five.

They were but I mean they were like they got some too. What are they into. Well they've heard these guys come and bad things happen. When you see groups of white guys all wearing the same clothes come in. That's a problem usually for traditionally for the for the indigenous people. How are they going to work for those people? Yeah, it's. Oh, shit. Is the word Calvary Cavalry. So bad stuff.

Yeah. So he finally held his council on July 5th with the Indians at. Right. Kind of right by. It's in Lincoln County right here, ten miles southwest of the town of North Platte, which is close by. The object of the meeting was to have them accept a reservation. Listen, we're going to have an opinion and all that sounds good right at your own place.

Wow. That's what an offer. So, yeah. And then it was the Sutherland was named after Robert Sutherland, who who was the an official with the Union Pacific Railroad. So many towns named after nameless railroad executives.

And in 1812, that was probably Donald's brother. Yeah, that is that man is all shit. Yeah, exactly right. Donald Sutherland. And yeah. And he is old. He's still alive. Tilley's is fucking he even really one of the oldest people on earth I think probably. Well yeah. He's over. It's him and some Chinese ladies over a hundred and seven. Right. I think he's going to be pushed fuckin guy called Kurt Kirk Douglas a punk and then he fucking right before he died, he was four years older than him and picked on him as a kid.

It's like you're a pussy.

So the village was incorporated in nineteen eighty five. Now right by here is the Mormon trail, the Oregon Trail and the Pony Express routes are all run right parallel to this town. So that's kind of why it exists is kind of a stop over while you're going to migrating somewhere. Yeah. Somewhere else. Oregon or the Mormon trail or whatever are if you're a Pony Express rider. I guess so. I found reviews of this town only a couple, and they're pretty different.

They're very different than I think this is one of those where it's you can like see the difference between if you grow up here or if you move here, as it seems to be that the first one's five stars. And this is a lifetime resident here. Quote, I'm a former resident of Sutherland. I have lived there all my life until I went to college last fall. They spelled there are some happy they're going for higher education. I love the small town atmosphere and how friendly everyone is.

Sutherland may not have a lot of places to go eat or places to go when you're bored, but it's only twenty minutes away from North Platte so you can go there to eat and find places to entertain you. You know, North Platte, the Garden Center of the Universe entertainment hub, is known as the entertainment capital of of central of the center of the Corn Belt. That's the entertainment capital of the corn belt buckle of it. You know how the North Platte.

I'm sorry. So there's that. And then there's a three star one. This is someone who just moved there and you're not feeling it quite the same. Well, we moved our family here almost three years ago to help care for my very sick grandfather. Even though I have family ties to this town. For my biological father, it is still very hard to be an outsider. So I feel like this is one of those. Everybody knows each other.

They've known each other since they were born. This is everybody knows that. Oh, this is so and so's grandson. So I can talk to him and blah, blah, blah. But it's almost as if they don't recognize, you know, one kind of. Yeah. Who's that? Grandpa never left, but this guy left. He never Marzel I think his father left and then had him somewhere know he's been here to take care of his grandfather.

He's like, oh this is going in this nice small town. I'll give him the side. I don't trust him.

We don't trust our story today, by the way, is maybe the reason why no one there would trust anybody because maybe they shouldn't. Based on what we have for you today, it's a fucking disaster.

So that's your populations. It's kind of stayed pretty steady, honestly, through like from nineteen thirty to about nineteen eighty. They had the same amount of people, pretty much. So it's a fifty year period going through industrial revolution and war and fucking depression and Dust Bowl. This is from the Dust Bowl. Right to you know, the eighties. Right to fucking Van Halen from the Dust Bowl to Van Halen. Basically they kept the same, which are very disparate between a wide berth of history.

To think of the Dust Bowl. You think black and white cloud of dust woman and like that dress that she made from flour sack standing outside dusty kids in that picture, David Lee Roth. Jumping off a speaker, wearing spandex like bright green spandex, kicking his leg up in the air now to the jungles of Vietnam to get there.

Yes, sounds a lot, extremely different places, but same population.

And then for some reason in the 80s, a few couple hundred more people came. Not sure what the draw was here. Maybe there was a factory at the time or something, but they've stuck around pretty much, and the population is kind of steadily ticked up a little bit. And right now there is sixteen hundred and one people there. Oh, and nobody leaves. Nobody's leaving. Yeah, it's up 55 percent since 1990, which I mean in a small town, it's not hard to it's only a couple hundred people, but still that's a you know, half the town over again.

Yeah. It's a lot female, a little it's kind of average a few more females than males. Median age is a little higher than in these rural towns. You're kind of going to get that. It's almost 40 for normally it's about thirty seven and a half. There's basically nobody here aged 18 to 30, is that right? It's like a third of the normal 18 to 30 year old population as normal. That's interesting. It's like if you need to get laid and like, do shit like you, they get your earlier fork out of this town.

There's no way. Then they come back here, like once they have a couple of kids are like, wow, it's cheap and quiet. And, yeah, I'm going to go back there and just sink right into a nice, warm depression for the next 40 or 50 years until I die out on the field. Yeah, there we go. Now, that's a day where I'm murdered by a neighbor, one of its kind in. That's what I mean.

So but 18, they're like blader. No pussy in this town. Good. By people trudging out here or the or no dick in this town. All the dick in this town's covered in dust and manure. I'm getting out of here, quite frankly, disgusting in this town. So the marriage rate to a lot higher. Normally it's 50 50 here, 60 percent. It's an older population. You're going to get that usually. And like I said, people that get married and come back here, it seems like.

So obviously, you get less single people, a few more divorces here than normal.

I would think that and I think like quarantining and shit like that over the last few months has brought that out a little bit to the divorce rate is going to go through the fucking rehearsal December.

Yeah, people aren't used to spending time together. No, that's if you think about it really like a marriage, maybe your marriage. I don't know, not Jimmys, but no, maybe like yours or somebody else's, like whatever somebody you know, you think about it. You go to work in the morning and see somebody for a half hour, maybe go to work. You come home, you see them eat dinner. Yeah, he watched it, by the way.

We know. Yeah. You spend like three hours together and you're not really you're on your phone, you're you're dicking around, you're watching TV happen with IEDs. You're not really spending any time with these people whatsoever. And then to be slammed in forever, forever. It's not good sort of field work that's bad for some people. It really is.

It's not just bad. Sometimes it's disastrous. Sometimes it's worse. So, well, there's been domestic orders. And this is like what happens with athletes, athletes when their career is over, they go home and they're divorced within a year because the wife's like, well, I didn't expect you to be here all the time.

The last ten years you have been we've had our schedule right. I get to get away from you for a couple of months and these large paychecks for a little bit. Yeah, yeah. It's you know, and I know he's like, you know, I don't disagree. It was real nice being on the road with those women in the hotel, though. That's the other thing, too, is they're on the road doing all their shit and then they get home and they're fucking bored because they can't have sex with three strangers at night.

So they're like, well, this sucks. Jesus Christ. Yeah, there's one of you. Maybe if you weren't doing that, you'd be satisfied with this.

You're a jerk. So anyway, here the the there's a lot less single people with children than the people with kids are married.

It's one of those deals to get pregnant.

You lock it down, you're single with no children, two point one percent of the population. Wow. It's normally ten percent. So it's staggeringly, well, staggeringly low if you're looking for a, you know, carefree partner. Good luck. You know, two out of one hundred. And so that means, wow, that is not a lot at all sunbaking. That is what twenty people have achieved the whole time. And the chances that you're actually attracted to one of those twenty, it's like it's like thirty people in the whole town are single with no children.

That's that's staggering. I mean, and most of them are probably headiest just just based on stats of normal, you know, appearance but fucking personality. It's got to be a tragedy. Other. Yeah. Either ugly or ugly personality. One or both. Both. So race of this town.

Ninety two percent white, as you might expect in Nebraska and a one point one percent Asian. Interesting. Which is. Yeah, OK, sure. One percent Native American. They really whittled that down over the years from one hundred percent to one Jesus Christ, four point one percent Hispanic. So it's not very it's pretty white. Yeah. It's a white farming town. It's not diverse. No, not very.

Fifty six percent of this of the people in this town are religious. So it's a little bit more and they're split up pretty really. There's not a real dominant one here. There's some Catholics, some Lutherans, some Methodists. Yeah. Eight percent other a couple of Mormons thrown in there. It is the West, right, and that's that close enough to Utah, zero point zero percent Jewish, though we're not going to work there, zero point zero percent Islam as well.

So it's it's the way it is. We're not going to do politics till 20, 21, because I don't want to get yelled at for other people's votes. I'm just going over my list. So anyway, unemployment rate here is four point one percent, which is, you know, a little over the average, but not too much in some of those.

You don't know when you have ranches and shit like that. It's the way unemployment figures are. It gets hard to figure out at that point. Now, the income, usually household income average in the US is fifty seven and a half thousand here to sixty eight thousand four twenty one.

Oh, so there's a few extra bucks here and money they're making money and transportation and warehousing are a quarter of the jobs here. I wonder what that is. It's usually four percent of the jobs. So it's definitely what they do here. I don't know if that's it's a stop off for rail. I don't know what it is.

But that seems to be I mean, it's employing one out of four people is the way the railroad consider both of those things, because that's probably what it is. I mean, that would be transportation, warehousing, but it's literally one out of four people a job probably do that. So it's got to be I mean, you add that and then like, you know, health care is 15 percent and that's 40 percent of the people are either health care or doing that.

So it's pretty limited in terms of diversity of jobs to have cost of living. It is normal, you know, regular here. It's about eighty two.

And the low thing is housing. Health care is way high. It's like one thirty seven. Housing is 50 out of 100, though the median home cost here, one hundred fifteen thousand eight hundred dollars.

Wow. So not too shabby. Over 70 percent of the houses are worth one hundred fifty thousand or less in this town. So it's not that. No, it's not. It's a you know, it's the real estate is cheap. And if you're looking for some, maybe we can help you find some with these Sutherland, Nebraska real estate report.

And your average two bedroom rental here is about seven hundred sixty dollars a month, which I don't even know if there is any, but there is actually one because it's for sale, like a strip of apartments. Oh, one of those one story is like six of them in a row. It's bleak. Look, it's a flat. It's bleak looking. Yeah. I found a three bedroom, one bath house. It's a house to house. Twenty eight hundred thirty three square feet.

So big place. Seventy five thousand dollars for it. That's a giant place for one bathroom. Yeah. The five to one and a half. They just listed it poorly. But that's bizarre that it'd be weird if you only had one bath. Seventy five came out and you can throw another bathroom in there for really want two four bedroom, one bath, seventeen hundred four square feet. Kind of ugly but eighty thousand bucks. OK, so I mean you can live with that if you got three kids and you want to stick them in their own rooms again sharing a bathroom always.

Then I found this one stretch out a little. You own the warehouse or whatever the fuck it is.

I found a six bedroom, six bath tee ball for everybody. Oh, yeah. Damn it. Seven thousand square feet. Big place. Picture of success. Three hundred sixty two thousand five hundred was very cheap. Get out of here. That's where that's cheaper. Oh my God. I want that cheap. Is that I that here or somewhere livable. Yeah, somewhere that's not rural Nebraska. That'd be terrific. Yeah. Here that house would be three million dollars.

Three million. About three point six. Two million dollars. Thirty. How many square feet. Seven thousand square feet. Six six bed. Six bad. Seven thousand gusting. Yeah that's a big.

You have to own several Taco Bell's to own that. Several, several Taco Bell's Ana del Taco to diversify and have a drug front there.

There was also another house that was just hilarious because the whole the entire side of the house, like, you know, it's a big like a two story house wall was just the American flag painted stop here. They painted the flag on the entire it was fucking huge. It's a house. I was a big drawing, big painting. I was like, whoa, that's a lot of talk to that cat is aggressive. I wanna hear all this story.

Yeah. You know, wow. That's a lot. So I don't know things to do here.

Not a lot, as you might imagine. Even in the reviews it said I found I think this is in North Platte. This is the two thousand nineteen because I think it's not going on anymore. Nothing's happened. Country Music Foundation. Thirty ninth annual festival. All right. Terrible name. The Foundation. That's a Country Music Foundation. Thirty ninth annual festival. How about the 39th Annual Country Music Foundation Festival? How about that? The Country Music Festival move that Thursday night, then off the front there and you have yourself a coherent set and move foundation out of there.

There's too many syllables in that shit. It's just a lot. Yeah, it's a whole line cmf cmf bitches.

So they'll be at the AG Activity Center. Yeah. Oh boy. The Agriculture Activity Center at the Lincoln County Fairgrounds in North Platte. They have silent auctions and and raffles and shit like that. They have banquet tickets as well. I don't know what that includes. Or Dervaes. Yeah. A meal, a door fee and entertainment slash dancing.

That sounds like a fuck load of money being raised for nothing going out.

It's like it's for the Country Music Foundation. What the fuck do they need all this money for? I don't know. I found this. You can if you want to find out, you can contact Deb Shaw. Yeah. Who sounds like she runs.

I have her phone number, but I won't give it out on this show because everyone's going to be because it says call or text. Everyone is going to be texting Dad. Hey, Deb, I am not going to make I'm not going to have hundreds of thousands of people texting BORDENAVE, asking her, where's the money going to dad? Where's that cash go? Really, how much money do they need? Thirty dollars. Is that what kind of orders do you have?

I can't do a silent auction. People are paying too much for probably a sweet lady who's just trying to do people a favor. And like in our fucking set things up, she's like, I don't even spend the money. I'm just a volunteer. I don't know why. Open the box tab. Tell us I have to change my phone number. Now, we can't do that department. We just can.

I want to know beverages and bar are provided by the last chance bar. I assume they mean the last chance before a long open stretch of highway and dry counties. Yeah, which is what Southerland kind of is.

Their food catered by rowdy robt barbecue are like rowdy rottweiler.

I assume they're sign probably has a growling dog fucking better, but it has the word rot in your salad. So don't don't sell me meat with the word rot anywhere around it.

No, no thank you. There's a reason why Johnny Rotten didn't open a string of barbecue after the Sex Pistols is a reason why it's like it's going to be. It's amazing. Johnny Rotten.

Some people are like, I don't think that's a good idea or a terrible idea.

Fuck, I can't use the name. Why bother? It's trademarked. And I go and make him Australian science. That's fine. I made him I don't even know what an alien, whatever that is. What the fuck that was. So schedule, ibro schedule provided. Now, Saturday night's performances, obviously, it's the country music festival. There's going to be performances. They have three bands. Only three. Three one is called OK, Sisters. Yeah.

No, it's not OK. Comus sisters like OK, sisters, listen up. Yeah, ok, sister.

So I look at it as OK, my sister's like OK, it's probably to two chicks from OK. That's what I thought after that. And maybe they're just from Oklahoma or or they're trying to make a little play on the OK Corral possibly that. Okay, no, no, no, it's just OK capital.

OK, like the state.

OK, abbreviated and their names are Kate and Karen which are now very unfortunate for a couple because that's I think while that was Kathy put upon Kathy, if it was Kathy and Karen, that's perfect.

So also Jon Longoria is Westwind.

OK, what's going on there. His brother Westwind. Westwind. OK, I don't know it it already farts blowing Westword and Lloyd McArtor and the honky tonk revival. Oh boy.

He high school Dabney's beat bloop. Bloop. That's that's happening.

David, last week there was somebody in the festival that sang songs that I know. Yeah. And I didn't realize that they really it was the guy these I have never fucking pretty sure you have it.

You don't have any sisters floating around and nothing on my iPod.

On the crime rate in this town, property crime is under half the average. It's less than half the national average.

So it's it's low violent crime, murder, rape, robbery and of course, assault. The Mount Rushmore of crime also very low. It's under one third of the average super safe, super safe that people are spread out. There's not a lot going on. You'd really have to make an effort to want to fuck with somebody in a place like this. This is a place where even if you were mad at someone, you'd have to go crazy to kind of go all the way the fuck over there.

Yeah, but also people are making money and when and and very little. Yeah, it's a that's a one way to keep the population. And also if people are spread out, they just they just fight less is less reason to fight. So that said, let's talk about a murder.

Now that we've explained all the reason why it doesn't happen here, let's tell you about something that is just inexplicably happened here.

This, by the way, this case changed laws to Supreme Court rulings about separate issues in this made precedent like this shit is a huge case out of such a tiny, little weird acorn, a giant oak tree of shit bloomed little little shit acorns drop it off all over the place, smacking people had to go out in your yard. Navar The garden season is littering the ground. Oh, God, I hate fall shit. It looks like a fucking giant rabbit.

They've been running around our yard. This is terrible. Pumpkin losses remind me of the shit. Porn fucking falls the worst season shit garden season. So yeah, put that on the menu. Starbucks, give me a shit corn latte and then you're stuck here.

What's called you can't even go outside your stuff in the shit corn gets the pumpkin doesn't remind me of fall into shit corn. So it always reminded me of all me and my family go out and collect the shit corns and, you know, pumpkin spice candles in the house. Just remind me that we're trying to knock down the shit corn smell.

That's what it is. Yeah. We had to cut down our shit country when I was a kid. It was just too much. Yeah. Got to be too much. Yeah. Rough. So to talk about this murder, first of all, I must describe how this newspaper and this is like a, you know, national article, the Lincoln knew the local Lincoln newspaper was very helpful for this and everything. But this one here, this is how this the town is described in the newspaper nationally and everything else.

I got this one from a Honolulu newspaper just to see how far it went. And it goes far, Honolulu.

So as far as it goes for the US anyway, it says, quote, Sutherland, Nebraska, Nebraska is a bleak prairie village that vibrates when the long Union Pacific freight trains thundered through its people, ranchers and railroad workers now swollen with construction crews building a state power plant view North Platte with the suspicion that North Platte views Omaha and and that Omaha views New York. OK, well done, chemo, dude. That's why I wrote that on the beach, bro.

That's what we're dealing with shit out of your.

But they basically said they sit here and sneer at Big North like like Omaha looks at New York, which is like my home. Look at all of them over there. That's how they look at North Platte. He's thinking they're fancy over there and not with their country. Found foundation festivals in that. OK, sisters, hands up package. We can where we can get the OK sisters to come here to thinking your fucking fancy and he spell it cats up.

That's how we do it here. God damn it. So I don't care if you say it the other way. That's how we like to do it in cancer. A long time ago the mayor spelt it like that and just been doing it ever since. That's just how it is here. So we must talk about, first of all, a young man in the 1970s, because we're going go back to the 1970s for this 1970s class. This is the town is about a little less than 800 people here.

It's you know, it's the 70s in Western, you know, bleak Nebraska. So, you know, whatever whatever scope you want on that or whatever prison ground filter. Yeah. Whatever prism you want to see that through. So first you must talk about a man named Erwin Charles Simmons, S.A.M., a NTFS surmounts however you want to say it, Simon's Erwin here, sometimes known as Hurby for some reason why? I don't know why not.

It's the 70s. It's the 70s, anything. It's the 70s and it's like western Nebraska. So he can really he might drive a Volkswagen. And people are like, Herbie, look at you. Or maybe he's just small and white, which he is actually. He's five seven hundred and thirty pounds. It's real hard. So he's a little Harbi. Yeah, he's a little tiny little guy. So I mean that's a hundred thirty six then. That's a light dude.

You're five seven. What do you weigh. 180. Well there you go. That's what I mean. Fifty pounds on this guy. I don't look. No you're not. But you're not a fucking guy with a shirt. I look terrible. One thirty. You would look. Oh God awful. You look emaciated. I would take you to a hospital if you came over a hundred thirty pounds. Jimmy. Oh, what happened?

Oh my God, Jimmy, I'm doing great. Fallen over. I'm so hungry. Oh God. Don't touch me. I bruise easy. I'm in pain. I mean a lot of pain. Are you OK now. I think I have aggressive cancer but I think like it. And I got the Stephen King in six months so edwar Edwar I'm sorry. Irwin and Hadwin Irwin here he's born about nineteen forty five. So you know you can keep that in mind as we go through it.

He is one of nine kids. Oh boy. Yeah nine kids is.

Dad's name is Amos and Amos and Grace are his parents Amos and Grace on the farm with nine kids. This is, this is different. Amos don't exist anymore. Right. Not a lot of them. Now there's some like Hollywood douche celebrity name in there is something. Yeah. Yeah. Not a lot of Amos is running around the farm anymore and Grace has come and gone.

It's come back again. It's common. It's coming back well now it's whatever names sound like an old lady. That's what people name their kids. Now my name is, you know, it's a beautiful name. Haven't Gertrude. It's wonderful to know. What about Frances? How about Beatrice? Beatrice. Kids are name. People are naming their kids fucking Beatrice all over the place. It's like there hasn't been a woman named Beatrice since 1893. And now you're like Beatrice.

That's going to work. That's Arthur died. Let her rest.

Yeah. Let's come on. Leave her alone. God damn it. Leave Dorothy Zbornak alone. Leave me in peace. Let everybody rest. So he's born out there. He's kind of he's from this area. His parents are in a long, long, long time residents lived through the Dust Bowl here. And this is you know, this is a different kind of time now.

He actually he's not a bright guy. No. Let's just right away put that on the on the table here. He's not a bright guy, but he's considered a kind of an average guy and a decent guy. He's not a troublemaker at all. He doesn't, you know, doesn't go off the hinges. He's not starting fights at five seven, one thirty. That's probably for the best. He's not getting beat up constantly. You know, it's probably smart to his own interests.

Yeah, maybe he tried that at an earlier age like, Jesus, this hurts. And finally, a good idea. It hurts to be an asshole in here. That's big fuck. So he actually in in the mid 60s, he finds a wife. So he gets married very young in his early twenties and marries this woman and they end up having a young daughter and the daughter dies before she's a year old. Fuck the the baby passes away and this messes the marriage.

They're young. They have a baby and. Like I said, that's a tragedy for anybody. Yeah, yeah, even if you wonder how it goes. No, no matter how solid your marriage is, no matter how long you been together, how mature everybody is, that's that's an emotional thing that's going to rip your heart.

It's going to rip everything apart, barring parental murder. Yeah. Any way that that child dies is not good for anybody. It's going to fuck the marriage up like a like a gremlin, jumping in and pulling wires out. You know, that's basically that as it's going to in New York. New York. Exactly. Open it up. It's trenchcoat showing. It's a little gremlin decked everybody. I love that part. I love that he was a pervert, too, like on top of everything else.

He's also a fucking pervert. Fuck. Yeah, but not like an outright rapist. Just like looking at honey, look, that girl like I'm going to whack Atlanta thinking about this a little weird. It's just fucking funny. They're just think of what are what are all the gross people in bars. Let's make the gremlins do. The best part is that you know exactly what it looked like to have to see if you. Naureen, and shriveled.

That's not big. No, it's not him for us. Like a green Tootsie Roll, but that's in the washing machine, then dryer afterwards.

And it's kind of the shocking, horrifying part is how awful it is. Yeah. Oh, God. Jesus. What if he just had, like, a giant, like, magnificent, like veiny black cock hanging down, like just a, you know, one thing you'd be like, whoa, wow. Like Majestic. Like we'd be like, God damn where everybody just not objectively they'd be like, that's a hell of a cock right there. A lot of debt.

I mean, I don't even I'm not into it or not. But it's a good dick being honest.

I'm really uncomfortable, but I'm not looking at it. I'd still like to give you a high five, sir. It's an impressive deck. And I'm talking men, women, everybody, just as a matter of like, you know, just respect. Yeah. Look, if you saw somebody like, you know, dunk from the foul line, you'd be like, damn, that was pretty sweet for you. Same thing. Yeah. You know, nothing for me.

But yeah, that was again, it's just nature both ways. You can jump from the foul line or if your shock is magnificent, either way, it's nature.

So it's a compliment. Compliment. So he gets a divorce, they end up getting a divorce. This couple, the young couple that says it's like it's you.

Don't you expect it? Yeah. You really do expect it. Now, the years of the divorce, I can't. I've seen conflicting reports and both from court documents, so I don't know which one is right. He either got divorced in nineteen sixty seven or he got divorced in nineteen seventy one. Not sure which really is irrelevant, but I'm just I'm not sure. So if you have four year gaps, I'm not sure which one. Either way the the daughter passed away kind of that precipitated the divorce.

So that's, that's how that went. Perhaps it was filed in sixty seven and final and seven. That's possible. That's partly because it was in two different court documents. But the one thing was, and it mattered to the case slightly, that his ex-wife hasn't seen him. I hadn't seen him since then. They haven't really had any contact. So whether it was from sixty seven or seventy one sort of makes a difference in the trial. But other than that, it really doesn't matter.

So anyway, he's not the brightest guy. Like I said, he has a seventy five IQ. OK, which is.

Yeah I'd call that a cool seventy five. Let's say it's low. Yeah. It's on the low side definitely. It's, you know you're, you're in Gump range in that little higher. But if you're in range, if you're within margin of error of Forrest Gump is what I mean. Like if it was an election you'd go that's in the margin of error on a poll. That's a margin of error to go. It's not good.

It's it's rural educated Nebraska. But it's also that's IQ, though that's not education, but it's lack of like nutritional development, possibly too much corn. I don't know if Grace and Amos are related or hoonah or you never know. You have nine kids, maybe two of them are fucking geniuses. And one of them does this. I mean, I don't know the chances of you having some it's a little slow if you have nine Luhya, one out of nine people are, you know, aren't that bright.

So there you go. One of the you know, it's true, though. I've seen families that have smart kids and dumb kids. It's just a matter of it's a crapshoot. Who knows what the fuck what's you know, what's Stu got cooked up that night? That's a it's a scary mom got pregnant six times and had three miscarriages. Yeah. I wonder if one of those was the genius. You never know. It's I mean, she took out the wrong slugs in a Russian roulette game.

You never know what happened. Wrong Schell's plus the dazing. So, so proud. How are you doing? I'm the one you chose or not. You chose him. This guy. I'm the one that worked some genes that stayed together. Imagine what the other one's what happened. Jesus. So she's IQ of seventy five. You can take from that what you will. But like I said, not a troublemaker. He's not going around, you know, petting dogs too hard and hurting them because he doesn't get it or anything like that.

He's, he's fine. He does his thing, he's, he's kind of marginally employed. One of those guys, he's kind of got these on the on the margins. He's just he's like a fence builder and a handyman. He doesn't own any property to have a ranch, doesn't really have any skills to do anything else. Kind of got a little bit of a drinking thing. He drinks a little bit, hangs out at the bars and drinks and it sounds like frustration, drinking and boredom, too, and loneliness and boredom and everything else.

And what the hell is he going to do is to sit and look at the prairie at 11:00 at night. I mean, there's a lot to do. You get it. If you've been if you've been building fences all day, when you're done, what do you do? Spinning your wheels all day? You're going to get some lubricant in there.

And it's the it's the 70s does it's not like, oh, I got you know, I'll go home and see what's on Hulu right now. Like, no, it's that there's nothing to do. There's a man in the middle of nowhere. There's like two channels out here. You're not even getting network feeds, all of them right in the middle here. You got a goddamn antenna and good luck to you. So he ends up by nineteen seventy five.

He's unemployed. He's trying to do handyman work here and there, but he's, he's just unemployed. He's drinking more and more. He's living with his sister in Sutherland here at the end of a long street. There's like a long kind of a rural dusty road with two houses at the end of it. That's kind of what where we are here. My fun, huh? Oh, that's where he's living with the sister. He around the corner and it's just down there.

Jesus, I don't go down there alone.

I to bring people there's a lot of distance between here and there are nothing. They're not in there to call someone and tell them where I was. So they know they don't trust us at all. So he lives with his sister. Here he is. I'll show you a picture of him, Jimmy. Well, there he is.

And those are some interesting sideburns. Is that is that a beard?

It's nineteen seventy five. OK, so he's got the long just alongside burns down the side but they're long like.

Yeah. Not just the length of them but the length of the hair hair involved is. Yeah. Again is he smoking. He's smoking a cigarette again. That's the 70s. You let your sideburns that long hair beat up a bit. He was pretty gross but they're thin, you know what I mean. That's just that's a weird sideburn. I don't think he grows facial hair well but now he wants to have cool sideburns since the 70s. But that's hard on those.

He's got an early comb over here. Does he's only about thirty in this picture. Really got a hard. Oh, it's a hard the hard part and a push hard part and push. That's not going to go well. You see future pain there for him. There's a lot of sadness there. A lot of I see a lot more rural drinking nights for this guy.

That's a lot behind those I now and everybody says that when his daughter died, he was never like an up and comer, you know, bright eyed and bushy tailed or anything.

But when his daughter died, it kind of just took a little more light out of his eyes, I imagine, which is understandable. And that's that's also very normal. That also shows a normal emotional response, which is good. And if you're your infant daughter dies, you should be crushed.

And you should give that a mourning process, not passing between male or female either. But no matter you lose your daughter and you feel like a way worse, dude, it's different.

It's it's it's four percent worse for a father, I think not than a mother, but for a father. If it's a girl that a boy dying. So you'd be like that your daughter is supposed to protect. Fuck. What have I done exactly? And obviously this was an illness and nothing that anybody or might have been SIDS even I'm not sure it was a yeah, it was not a preventable death. It wasn't like she fell in the pool or something.

There was a definitely a very unpreventable thing here.

Now, his ex-wife, OK, Mary, her name is Mary Olsen, and she says that she went to the doctor. This is so weird. She said that her and her sister know him and her sister remained friends with him after they got divorced and that the sister had told her that the sister went to the doctor with him at one point. And he has like apparently she was saying he has some sort of she says this in nineteen seventy five that he has like a tumor the size of a fist in his stomach.

He's OK, but I don't know if that's not possible because we'll find out. But it's just a strange thing here. She says that the ex-wife, Mary Olsen, said that her sister, who was, quote, very close to Irwin, told her a doctor advised him that he would not live past age thirty without a surgery to remove the growth, which by nineteen seventy five is thirty. So that's that predictions blown that cancer isn't just a growth.

We don't know it's a grow. They called it a growth. They didn't say. Erin says he's got a big ovarian sister and it's very painful. So they said that, she said that they told he told a bunch of other people the same thing. And this was like, you know, whatever, you know, like, I know one thing. Oh, he's got a big tumor in his stomach. He's got to get it removed. OK, you know, everyone with the right, you know, syste are we are syste Hurby over there.

I got to things.

Sideburns and tumour's sideburns, tumors and colon. That's me, baby. It's the trifecta. Triple threat. Triple threat. They call me herbage affected background from. I'm Harvey. Herbie has advanced tumors and can't boom. That's right. So that me you never had it removed. Oh. He's apparently, according to Olson, he was afraid of doctors. So he didn't have the operation. He fears doctors. I did that with dentists for a long, long time.

Well, yeah, this is apparently he's afraid of anybody with a white coat on anybody.

So she he describes she describes him as, quote, very sweet and gentle. He's he values life very highly because it's sad he was when the baby died and all that sort of thing. And she even later on. Well, we'll talk about that later on. But she stays she gets back in touch with him, Mary. And, you know, they like they still talk. And she remains kind of a confidant for him at a later date.

Very strange. So they must have had a semi amicable divorce. He clearly didn't like, you know, terrorism or stalker or, you know, she didn't get away from him to save her life or anything like that. She has nothing but nice things to say about him. She's just like it just didn't work out anything. Or those people, people who write amicable divorces, gone through a divorce.

And we just realized we're better off as friends. We did what? Yeah, who. But whose idea was that? My parents are always like that.

And I was always like, I have never been hatsu.

They're always nice to each other. Always said nice things about each other. I'm going up there. Something's off.

This is fishy. This whole thing is fishy. Goddammit. So October 18th, nineteen seventy five.

This is a normal day for Irwin. Let's say he's hanging out. He's really doesn't have anything to do. No work or anything like that. You know, it's a fall day in the middle of nowhere. No work, no pay. Went to a couple of bars in Sutherland, you know, put back a couple of beers. A couple of his friends were there. A guy seems to know from work and a cousin. And this one of going to be a brother or sister over there.

And it's a small town. So if, you know, there's not a lot to do, what a day, especially back there. So you'll run into people if you go to the bar, you know, everybody there.

So finally, he lives with his sister. By the way, I think that, by the way, the the sister's husband's name is Butchie Boggs, which is one of the better names we've ever come across on. That's pretty goddamn it. It's his sister. Her husband. Do they have kids?

Yeah, there's other people there, too. They have a thirteen year old son as well here. So he lives with her, like we said, at the end of that road, about eight o'clock PM on October 18th. Nineteen seventy five. He's hanging out at the bar. His sister's there as well. Yeah. Bunch people are there. He asks his sister to take him to her house because he's done for the night. The gabbed. I don't know if he's out of money or if he's just he's been drinking all afternoon, but not like he's not shitfaced or anything.

He's just been kind of maintaining maintain hanging out, having a beer, not not like pounding to get drunk. Just this has been his hangout for the day. Social. Social. Exactly. So no one said he was stumbling away or anything else.

Like 45 years ago. Like two days ago. Yeah. This is very that's kind of fascinating. Well, it's Halloween. It's that same month. It's kind of why I picked it. So here we go. I have themes and things I don't hear. Yeah. That's what I like doing. So he he ends up doing that and she takes him home. Now, at the end of the street, like we said, there's only two houses here.

There is the Boggs residence where he lives with his sister, sister, son, other people in and out. You know, smattering of Boggs's smattering of the boxes. Well, that's the brother in law's name. So, yeah, smattering of boxes and and and semanticist and all sorts of people in there. So next door to them is the other house sitting there is the residence of a guy named Henry Kelly, Kelly Kelly.

Now the Kelly family, Henry Kelly is like known as the sweetest man in the town. He everybody likes him. He he's kind of semi retired. He's 66 years old. Yeah. He's semi retired. He does some farm work to supplement his Social Security. He's that kind of guy. He's got stuff. You know, he's easy life. Easy life. Yeah. And he's enjoys his life. He worked hard his whole life and through it. Yeah.

Yeah. That's the thing. He and his wife adopted their granddaughter, Florence, whose mother had been killed in an auto accident. So that's how nice people they are. Yeah. You know, he's like a pastor sometimes. It's like an amateur. It's not making any money off it, but going around. He just likes to spread the word of how happy he is.

I feel like I how wonderful the world is.

And that's how it feels to me. Like he's just let me tell you about a free life. Can be good, right? I'll tell you how he got to be me. And he is him.

So Henry Kelly, his wife, also Marie Kelly, he's 66. She's fifty seven. And they have their son David, who lives down the street and his kids as. Well, he's got a couple of kids, Diana, who is seven years old, Daniel's five years old. So David, Diana and Daniel are always over the house. They eat dinner there. Most nights they live not too far away. So they stop by, see the parents.

Very nice. And then also living there is the adopted granddaughter, Florence, who's 10 years old. So 66, 57, son, 32. His kids, seven and five granddaughter adopted 10. Right. So there you go. That's the kind of minor front.

And then step up and keep my life happy. You adopted this little girl because you're younger. It's already your younger daughter. She blends in your oldest kids and say she's 10, were like two years. She can babysit. This is great.

You and your wife, you do this. Got a weird swinger parties and shit in North Platte. You know, they are over there in North Platte. All weird. Surman got a little sadder when I had to do this.

It was so happy.

By the way, one of the newspapers I was reading from here was the funniest shit because. Have you ever seen the movie Ed Wood? Yeah, OK. And I love the movie at what? Right. So in that movie, like the the the guy he sees what's his name from Dumb and Dumber. The Jeff Daniels. No, no, no.

The the thing about the big the big guy is he's Frenchie and Goodfellas, you know, guy for that guy. He's the guy who is like Johnny Depp is pitching his first film too. And he's it's a you know, he's talking about Amaterasu in the movie. The guy's like a transsexual and all this type of shit. So he says the guy's like Otto's repressed Oki's love that fucking shit. I thought, well, they'll eat it up. Those repressed, they love it.

And so I always laughed at that. But then I was looking in the paper from nineteen seventy five and it is just all porn and all the theaters in this fucking place really. It is just porn, porn, porn, porn, porn. Come see this one was like she's worth every inch or some shit and then was like all these 70s porn one had that had a name I reckon like a 70s porn name. I recognized like I know that guy is different in the.

Yeah. One of those. Yeah.

Hard cocking Denton So it's all that like Cartman his name and I like Casablanca. Seven minutes. Exactly. No that's what was playing like porn porn barn. And then there was like a theater playing literally Disney Bambi and then it was born porn. Porn hilarious. Hard Cochabamba snatch.

It was just boom, boom, boom.

That's what was advertised. Very strange, unreal. But with Bambi in the middle, get an Eiffel Tower like Cock Hardington and Dear Housewife don't mix up showtimes. Yeah, watch out. Don't come before you come and be out of the theater by ten because it's about to get sticky. Everybody kids are going to sit in the final.

Oh, it's going to be gross. So how crazy is that.

That was a fucking business in America for so sitting around and getting horny and public talking in public concern, public tugging. I mean, it was a fucking wild as a strange doesn't make any sense to me. But back then, what else could you do? Yeah. Like if you wanted porn in the seventies, had to get like a like a film. Yeah.

And a project it on a fucking wall literally. Like that's how you watched porn at home. You had to order a film out of the back of a magazine. They sent you reels of film, real fucking project on a sheet. That's insane. And you sit in your fucking that's in your ad on your fucking ID. Yeah. Like like Chevy Chase and Christmas vacation. Except with heart and not family movies. It's going to be not OK. Not attractive man.

And then once obviously videotapes came in, people could rent them. Then it was like, OK, why the hell am I going out of whack out of my living room. It was so hard to be a deviant.

Maybe that's why society was so fucked up and there were so many to be so.

And the shadows as it was, everything that's dirty. And this is that once sex was out in the open, I feel like it was a little we solved the problem a little easier. It's not being so shameful about it. Yeah.

Just do it. Which is weird because which is strange because we moved the wacking inside. Meanwhile, they were not shameful at all. They were whacking in a public place before, but they were shameful about doing the least shameful thing possible. So there's no shame in your public Wacken game, you know what I mean? But then again, now it's less shameful. It's so weird that I don't get it. People will admit to whacking it in their living room.

They won't admit to going to see a movie and whacking it with a group of other men or worse, like a thug studio where there's like the window that pops up in a girl like yourself. And you're talking to that like, why is why I'm so ashamed.

I remember when I was a kid, there was some gross shit because this is like New York. Yeah. When I was a kid, like before, like, it got all Disneyfied and shit, like it was fucking gross in a great way. It was dirty and filthy. And I remember like I had friends, it would be we'd be like twelve but they were like I went down in the city with my older brother. Right. And fuckers, we were like an hour from the city, went down to see my older brother.

He took me to this both at the twelve year old kid. Yeah. It's like you give this. Lady, five bucks, and you can just stick anything you want in her. I'm like, what are you talking about? How do you do that? Why would you do? Why would you want to stick anything?

I remember being like I put like your fingers in there. I'm like, the look on my face was just the same look as when they give me mayonnaise shyte.

But on my burger, I'm just like, oh, no, don't do that. And I'm thinking, Jesus. Well, I don't I don't know who's the bigger victim here. This is just gross in every way, shape or form. And he's 12, like, smiling about like, oh, great. You got to love it. You got to go out.

And I'm like, no, I don't think so. I think I'm going to do that. And that's the type of grossness that used to be available. It's either that or you fill a sandwich bag with Vaseline and Jim in the couch cushions. You know which one's worse? I mean, because I know dudes that did that shit and then openly told us they do both of them. Why'd you do that?

Yeah, I feel like they do both. Hey, why do all the other B why are you telling me? Don't tell me about cream cheese.

You can't get the ones with the seal because that'll Chafey, you got to get the ones that have the full you know, you're telling you tell to Ziploc bag is fucking all you have to send me.

You have to fold the Ziploc back otherwise you'd be in trouble.

It's horrendous. Yeah. That so of this message from our message, which one's currency. I see, uh fifty fifty six to one.

So they live next door like we said. Mr. Kelly, by the way, Henry has been help, he helps Irwin out. Yeah he does. He's nice to him. He helps everybody out and Erwin's right next door. So we helped him out. And as a matter of fact, twenty days earlier, because this is the eighteenth this was the twenty days earlier, Kelly had Mr. Kelly bailed Irwin out of jail and paid a fine for him so he wouldn't have to stay in jail.

He got picked up for not paying a fine for public intoxication and couldn't pay the fine for that, couldn't pay it. So they put him in jail. So Henry Kelly came down and paid fifty dollars and sprung him as he felt bad for him. He's the guy he was drunk. And the reason for the guy to sit in jail because he was drunk two months ago, that's that's dumb. Nobody got hurt. Why should he be there? So and they said that one person, a neighbor said Henry had done this sort of thing for years.

If anybody needed a helping hand, he always gave it to him because just the way he was. Yeah, it's just one of these nice kind salt of the earth people. He knocked on his door and said you were whatever he'd say, well, why don't you come on in here and get a lemonade and some fried chicken and some nice cornbread homemade. We'll talk about it. Yeah, she's been making cornbread all day. It's been just one you're going to love.

It's delicious. Want some some fresh honey on that? Why do I butter from the farm. Yes, I do. Yeah. That's the type of thing I feel like they're just generous, helping nice people. So during this time through October, the last couple of weeks he's been Erwin's been doing odd jobs around Mr. Kelly's house to try to repay him because he doesn't have any cash to repay him. So they just kind of, you know, something needs to be done, go for physical shit that sixty six year old man doesn't feel like doing.

He'll dig a hole or he'll do something like that for him not working it off. And that nice arrangement, I mean, that's pretty sweet deal.

That's right. Neighborly. I'd rather work on your farm than be in jail. Who wouldn't. You know what I mean. And I think this guy would rather have help than 50 bucks and his neighbor in jail. So. Yeah, what the hell. So he you know, he's living there next door and this is going on. Seems like a nice thing here because he is unemployed as well. Apparently, Simmons used to work at the Hershey Grain Elevator and one time so not the chocolate factory.

No.

I'm wondering if that would count as warehousing, transportation, like warehousing a grain elevator. So if they store a lot of grain here, which maybe it's kind of a central grain clearinghouse for Nebraska, it's on the rail line, maybe father farms bring it to places like this to get on for rail. Still a tough job. Still seems like that's a tough one for that job.

It sounds hot and dusty. Yep, very dusty. You'd always have you'd you'd cough up like pieces. Chunks of grain. Yeah. Chunks of flora coughing up what is Jesus is my. That's green with with the lights in it with a man telling you break's over. A lot. A lot. Yeah. Well the your one break it's over.

So this was you know this is working off some shit and living with his sisters. Better than working at the grain elevator I guess, or whatever the hell it's go get grain elevator. So like we said, the the family, the Kellys there, they lived about a block away. There was the two kids and the son of the Kellys. But they go over there and, you know, eat dinner. So now back to Irwin. He he goes to back to his sister's house after drinking with a sister and everybody.

She leaves him there and goes back to the bar. OK, so he ends up hanging out. He's got his 13 year old nephew, their sister's kid. So he hangs out. 13 year old nephew. And he has a he's very good with like 13 year old kids because he's pretty simple. He's kind of on their level. And so, you know, about the same shit. That's what I mean. It's kind of the same level of maturity.

So he hangs out with the 13 year old for a while. He's only 20 minutes, half hour. They bullshit shoot the shit. And then he goes into his sister and brother in law's bedroom and ends up grabbing a twenty two rifle from in there. And yeah, he gets some shells from some bullets and he's got him. His brother in law has him loads it all up and he says that, you know, he's going outside, he tells his nephew to because there's little kids to keep the kids in the house and go outside and shoot.

And so, you know, you don't keep them in the house. You don't want to hit any stray. You know, any stray is hitting the kids.

That's how rule that says if somebody is just like, that's an activity, I just go grab my gun and run in the backyard in the dark after I've been drinking all day and buck some shots. And I fucking weird thing to do. It's a strange thing to do. I've got guns and that's strange. You don't get drunk and go shoot them in your backyard. No, no. Nine o'clock at night. You're just like I feel like popping some shots off.

I want to feel powerful right now. It doesn't happen.

I don't surprise Jimmy. Not really. No, no. I'll shoot it. But like, I'll go out in the desert. It's an all day thing to schedule, right? It's not like I've been drinking all day. I'm kind of bored. Let me pop a clip and that's got to go inside. I got to get the fuck out of this place.

Yeah. And away from everybody. And it's an all day thing because you've got to drive for for fucking ever desert God damn state.

Yeah. You gotta drive to get away from where else do you want to shoot fucking. I mean they've got indoor places here. OK, that sounds awful. I don't want to start with fucking gun nuts. That's to cram down with these people. Yeah I know. I understand. People like what you got there.

Shut the fuck up. That's what I've got here. Otherwise we're going to shoot in the middle of Greenway Road and there's not a real there's not a little city. There's not a lot of places to shoot. So it's so he goes out and he's got a loaded gun. We keep the kids in the house and I'll be outside. So he wanders outside. He's gone for about forty five minutes. Some shots are heard here and there doesn't nobody's paying attention.

He returns in about forty five minutes, unloads the rest of the rifle. Right there you go. And puts the puts the rifle or I'm sorry. Puts the bullets that were that he took an unloaded put them away and then he writes a note on the kitchen table. He says quote, I am so sorry to all. It is the best way, it is the best way out. Do not cry. You see our i.e., by the way.

So just to give you a little insight, he spells KRI wrong, a three letter words. So that's an emotion word that everybody knows since they were I don't know.

I cry is easy one to solve one for him. He adds an extra X in my folks that tripped him up a little bit.

So that's a weird note to leave on the table. Sounds like a suicide note, right? I'm sorry. Don't cry. This is the best way out. Like that seems normal, but it doesn't commit suicide or anything. Writes the note out and then sits down with his nephew and calms down calmly tells them that, yeah, you should tell you what I need you to do. I did something. So call call your mom. Call you know my sister here.

Call your mom and you know, call also your grandparents, my parents, and tell them that I just went next door and killed everybody. I just killed all the callies, all of them. I just. Any names them all off? I killed him. This one. I killed her too. And then he came and so I had to kill him. And I also know I killed this. He got the kids I kill. They're all dead.

He's an asshole. He said he's killed the entire family. So the teenager doesn't even doesn't believe him. Yeah. Because he's not a real consistent guy and he's had a few. Yeah. So you're like fucking with me, you know. Like what? Someone who has no history of violence, calm, normal guy just tells you I went outside and come back in. I just killed all of our neighbors. It's a weird thing where you're like, why we don't even have beef with them like they don't you like that guy?

Like, what the why the fuck would you do that? Got you out of jail, man. Absolutely.

So it's at this moment where everybody who's in Sutherland hanging out there watching on TV, one of the things on here in the local affiliate is the deadly tower. The movie The Deadly Tower is on. I don't know. It's a big fucking it's a movie event here. It's a big disaster movie where people are dying in a deadly tower, clearly gone. I mean, that's only fair I got from the newspaper. So at nine eighteen pm KLP, which is the local affiliate station here.

Nope, nope, nope, nope. Froggatt, thanks for watching. Nope. We're watching Carnap. So Don Feldman comes on the air. He is the. Only full time newsman at the station, it's a very small station and a very small area. This is when it gets real rural right now. This is when it's the small town murder aspect of this whole thing gets crazy. So he gets a call from the sheriff's office or what? Someone who says they're from the sheriff's office saying, quote, Something terrible has happened in Sutherland, Hopp Gordon, by the way, the Arop Ballister, the sheriff's name is Sheriff Hopp.

Awesome. Like fuckin stranger things. It's not Hopper, but his nickname is Hopp. So they all come up. It's fucking awesome. Mike, this is cool shit. Sheriff hops on the case. Sweets Yeah. So happens. Call him hot from now on. Hot Blister. The sheriff here, quote, wants you to put off the following warning on the air immediately. So he's saying interrupt the movie. This is the sheriff's department. Interrupt the movie.

Sheriff, I need you to tell everybody this quote, Everybody lock your doors and windows. Don't answer your door without a thorough check of the of the person knocking or ringing on doorbells. There's a sniper loose with a shotgun and he's killing people. Shotgun, shotgun.

So there's no information the fucking town goes apeshit. Yeah.

Think about everybody sitting here quietly watching a movie. All of a sudden, lock your windows, lock your doors, maniac on the loose. He's shooting everybody. People are like, holy shit. Just maniac on the loose. He's fucking armed.

Is about an armed gunman. These fucking don't lock your windows like that. To me, that says he's going there's a person going out there to Random House is shooting strangers door to door, door to door, probably next. Yeah. I mean, I look out the window but not turn the lights out first. They'll shoot you through the window.

The people that do that, people boy, that's that's frightening if you're, you know, mid seventies rural person, in fact, somebody said that now you'd be even in the city even as cynical as you are, you'd be like, oh, that doesn't sound good. No, you know, that sounds bad, Jesus. But you'd be like I was part of the city. Is it is it in here in Gilbert or is it actually five minutes away from me?

Who cares? Whereas this is the town is tiny, so anywhere in the town is you're in danger.

There was a blue alert that came across my phone about a guy that was killing cops. And I looked at the news. It was a Fifteenth Avenue and Garfield, I'm like, fuck, do I care? How the hell am I?

Well, not that you don't. That's a bad thing. It's a matter of just that's an hour away from where you live. They're not, to me, not a threat, not anything. There's nothing you can do about it is will be in New York. That's what I'm saying. That would be like if someone got an alert in San Diego or something happened in L.A., it'd be like, well, what am I going to do about it?

Like, I live in another city. I can't fix it. I can't fix that from all over. I'm not in danger. No, not at all.

So the newsman demanded proof that this was really the sheriff's office. There's no caller I.D. It's the 70s. So he said, who the fuck is this? I'm not going to interrupt our movie and freak out the entire town unless I know this is a real source and not a crank call. So he arranged to return the call to the county jail to you know, he said, we'll call the county jail. You have the look up the fucking number in the phone book and call and I'll answer the goddamn phone and then you'll know who it is.

So that's what the guy does. He looked up the county jail called, and that's me again. High up fucking lock your doors. Here we go. Tell everybody. So he went, oh, shit. I guess it's a real person. And he said that he did tell the deputy that he's going to require more details. Then something terrible has happened because I can't go on the air and say something bad is happening. Lock your doors like this is the news not I'm not the town crier just got everybody bad.

Things are going on. Lock up. That's weird. Now back to the Tower of Terror. Back to the deadly tower. Enjoy. So after a bunch of phone calls, including one where they do a short wave radio radio call to Sheriff Hopper, who was twenty two miles away from the station, they do that and finally can, after talking to hop interrupt, puts up an interrupt bulletin to report that there's been a killing and that everyone should lock their windows and doors, admit no one, you know, maniac on the loose.

Holy shit. Be careful. So nine thirty seven a.m. was when that came on there. So there you go. Deadlee Tower, by the way, was about Whittman in Texas, the bell tower shooter there. That makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. The University of Texas shooter. That's what that was about. Deadly tower. That makes sense.

Perfect. Perfect name really. Then more on the nose. Couldn't have been more on the nose.

You never know, because Die Hard could have been called the deadly tower. Also the fuck that was. So the population of North Platte, by the way, is twenty three thousand people, which is a lot bigger because at this point there was eight hundred and something in in Sutherland. So this also airs in North Platte as well. So it freaks out another twenty five thousand people or so. So this police cars are there. There's roadblocks being set up.

There's cops from every town county, people with fucking flashlights going all over the town. It's serious. It is absolute chaos. It's like in a movie, if a blond, little, tiny blond girl went missing and I'm in a movie in a small town, you just see flashlights going all over the darkness. That's what's happening here.

She's so blind. Find her. She's got pigtails. We need to save her now.

It's Daniel Donovan. Yeah, it's the exact same thing. So they're setting up all this shit. There's a television news helicopter from Denver that flies in. Wow. Oh, yeah. I mean, the news company chartered a helicopter because there's a big service to fucking from three hours away, immediately fly there to hover over this over the town. Where is it gonna be that hard to find? So it's it's goddamn it's crazy. All these alerts people are sitting basically from what everybody said, everybody turned all their lights off and sat in the living room with their shotguns, literally whole families sitting around armed to the fucking teeth with waiting for up a creek on the front stairs.

Nobody move. How dangerous is that, though?

What if somebody didn't hear this and came over to borrow a cup of sugar or something? Then we get blasted by everybody. Grandma shot him. Everybody shot him, came home late, blow through the door, then open it.

Let's see. Oh, shit. Bastards. We shot the fuck out of Bob, man. God damn it. I think it's Bob.

Call the sheriff and call. Nope, we got him. We got a call, came up. It was Bob. There was Bob was on the way, murdered. Everybody must have been Bob.

So that's what's going on. So what happened to cause this chaos? Well, usually I'll say this at the beginning of the show, but fucking buckle up, everybody, because this is this is rough. You you might want to put down if you're eating, put that down for a minute and relax here. So basically what he did is Irwin came into the house and to next door to the Kelly's house. And the first person he encountered, most of the family was out back.

A couple people were in another room. First person he encountered, his 10 year old Florence got OK, Florence Marie Kelly. He tries to rape her. What? He tries to rape her at gunpoint. That's the start of this. That's the start of this boy. He tries to rape a ten year old girl in her own living room at gunpoint whose mother was just killed in the car and whose mother was killed in a car accident. She's already got enough trauma.

Yeah, he has a hard time. He can't you know, she's a little girl. So to make it easier for him, he decides he should shoot her first.

So he shoots her in the forehead with the 22 rifle so close that she's got bad powder burns, I mean, point blank and then raped. Oh, my God, no. Yes, after she's killed.

After this poor little girl is no longer alive. That's when he decides that that's the time.

OK, so when he's doing this, that's when the girl's grandfather. Here comes Henry. Right.

He hears a gunshot and commotion. So he comes in the house and he went to he comes to the doorway. And so everyone turns the gun and shoots him, too. So he shoots down, Henry kills him, he takes Henry and drags Henry's body down into the bedroom, away from the living room and stuff. OK, so shortly after that, the Henry's wife, Audrey Marie Kelly, she's there. Henry comes in to the house as well as she's heard all sorts of commotion and gunshots.

So he kills her to have the shot to the forehead as well. OK, they're coming in as as they come in, he, you know, he just shoots them, he shoots her in the forehead and then he rapes her as well. What is happening? He he's he's into apparently clearly. Yeah, I don't know. So he's so now this is, you know, deceased grandmother that he's deciding that he needs to do this to so, you know, drags her back as well.

Right. It's at this point that their son, David, the thirty six year old and his two children show up at the house. OK. David enters he kills David first, obviously, because he's the threat. And then there's his two kids, five and seven year old Daniel seven. Diana or I'm sorry, Daniel's five. Diana is seven. He shoots both of them and then rapes Diana as well. All the women, all every female in the house he killed and he had his.

That's what happened. I don't know. I'm disturbed, obviously, as I'm sure no one out there right now is like, you know, that's the normal thing.

Does not fucking funny about this. How does this horrible from the day he had to this night? That's the thing. It's nobody understands.

He he went from his normal day.

Everything's fine to to I don't know if no explanation.

I mean that. I don't even know what to say about this. Like what? I can't put myself in the place of a person that a wants to go kill people for no reason. I've had plenty of reason why I want to fuck her. I'd love to strangle that person, but I know I don't want to go to jail and shit. So I'm like, that's not good. And then they have a family and there's a whole morality thing to it where I got inside and out and ends up falling apart.

There was a host of reasons not to do it. He'd never get past that part of you get put to play what?

I would love that motherfucker to be dead. But that's as far as it goes, because the rest of it's a huge inconvenience to not only you, but everybody else. Yeah, it's not great. So I really can't put myself in the head of somebody who kills people who are nice to them for no reason. And then I can't put myself in the mind of a rapist or a child molester or a molester rapist necrophiliac as well. There's so many things here that my I'm like I'm like a circuit board where they put the shit in the wrong places and it's just not it's got crossed up.

And I don't even know I don't see how necro paedo crosses peeter, you know what I mean? Mixed with all the right.

I don't know. And if they cross, this is a new one. Fokin. Why we've never had this before. Now this is what I mean. Yeah, I hate to fuck. It's disgusting and it's horrible. But I mean, Jesus Christ, this is one hundred and ninety four episodes. I didn't think we could be shocked by anything. I know this is shocking. And then what. I'm fucking shocked so. Well he does that. Then he went next door, told his nephew, hey, I just killed everybody you might want to call six year old sons, killed all six of them because you might want to call first, call your mom, tell her you want to know her house and everything, and then call your grandparents, because they'll want to know, too, that I'm a murderer.

Obviously didn't tell the thirteen year old that what he did sexually, thank fuck, just murdered him.

He didn't. He just said shot them all. They're all dead. So, you know, might as well get a look at them all cleaned up over there. Good Lord. I know what he was hoping to accomplish.

Now what I don't understand is my my theory and I think kind of the prosecutor, one of his theories here, and it was what I thought immediately was he went in to the house with the gun.

I think I don't know if he's going to rob them or what his initial I don't know what his initial foray into the house was for, because unless it was for nefarious purposes, he wouldn't need the gun. He could have just went over and they would have went, hey, how are you doing, Irwin? Because they knew him and liked them. So he was fine to just go over there. So the gun means that he was going to do something that he knew they wouldn't like right away.

So I don't know if he saw the little girl in there. Something clicked because he the first his first thing is to try to obviously attack this little girl sexually. That's his first thing. And when he can't, I don't know if his brain being that he's pretty simple, he just goes from, well, I can probably be easier if she's dead. So then he shoots her and then it goes from there and then more people come in.

You got to just keep going as it goes. Kind of like Richard Speck, where he said they just kept coming in. They just kept coming home. I didn't know what to do. Like more and more and more. More and more. And I couldn't keep control. I don't know if maybe it was that type of situation where he was like, I couldn't keep they kept coming and I just kept, I don't know, attacking. I don't know.

I don't know.

Like I said, I can't put my mind there. But yeah, most pretty much everybody who who were, you know, who was possible was shot at point blank range as well.

Jesus Christ. It's I guess she's trying to eliminate all the witnesses. I don't know. But yeah, everybody everybody is dead here. Now he comes back, like I said, he brings the rifle back, tells his niece and nephew it just killed the Kellys. And then they call Amos and Grace up his mother.

Grace says, I'm sorry when he when the son calls his mother at the bar, his mother, sister, her twin sister, she says, OK, I'm coming home like, I don't know what's going on, but I'll be there in a minute. Like, you get a weird call from your thirteen year old. Yeah. Uncle fucking Irwin just shot everybody next door. I be like what we need to I'll be there in a minute. I don't know.

We sit next to you. He's sitting right there though. Yeah. All right.

OK, like weird. So his father, though told him that he didn't believe him. Basically the father he called the kid called, called Amos up and Amos got on the phone with Irwin and everyone was like, yeah, I did this. And he's like, no, you didn't. I don't believe you. Fuck are you talking about you're making shit up again by one of those things like your whatever. So get over there, though, right?

Well. He left work, he's a railroad railroad worker and he's an older guy, too, so a guy has been working the he's been working on the railroad all the livelong day for about the last 40 fuckin years now. Heard and seen some with nine kids. Right. This guy is tired and he is probably a rugged had about enough of this. He's had about enough of this shit. And he's with nine kids. He has said he's that's where they got in Lethal Weapon.

That's where they got the line. I'm getting too old for this shit. That's where they got it from, from a man named Amos, somebody who just stopped in this town on the way through and heard a man named Amos saying as he turned to leave the tavern, I'm getting too old for this shit. They were like, oh, Danny Glover is going to rock that.

So, yeah, he says that he didn't believe him. So he's coming to see for himself. So he Amos arrives at the home of the Callies and open the door to the county residents and said that he was sickened by the sight in the center of it right away because gunpowder and blood and there's a lot of blood and it's not great, but smells, blood smells, especially gunpowder with blood. That's a weird that's gross. So he said he returned home and told his wife to call an ambulance and the police right away.

And, you know, he'd want to go in and mess up the crime scene, basically. And then he told his son, go turn yourself in. When the police get here, you better fucking go out there like a man and say, hey, I did this. You know, don't be a fucking asshole. So instead of doing that, Irwin goes home to go to the bar. OK, this is Bull. I don't want to fucking turn myself in.

That's boring to want to work. It's a lot of work. I got to go. I got to explain everything he does. I'm going to go down to the rodeo bar. That's the name of this place. Goes down to the rodeo bar across from the Union Pacific Railroad tracks. And he has a beer.

He, a murderer, sat down at the bar, sat right down at the bar.

Oh, boy. A murder with child blood on him. It's right down at the bar. Just crack a beer by, you know, and the bartender said that he, you know, must have shown up just after that because that's when he was when he saw him.

He said that, quote, I remember serving him just one beer and he left. He didn't appear to be drunk or anything like that. He said that he's known Irwin for a long time, quote, I've seen him around the bar lots of times. He's never been a troublemaker at all. The guy never even gets loud or anything like that. This really becomes an all time quiet guy, has a beer, leaves.

This has got to have blood on him. Right. I would assume I probably change his shirt. I don't know. But this seems like an area where there's probably a lot on a lot of people. Yeah. You know, I come from the farm or something of the ranch. He got some blood on. Somebody's made dinner. They've got blood. That's what I mean. There's a lot of blood in an area like this. People don't question it.

I have blood on your pants because I fucking working on my ranch. Plus, the better question is, why don't you. Yeah. What's up with you fucking lazy bitch pansy? We'll get Harvard boy here without blood on his pants. That's the call you if you don't have blood on your jeans. Currently, Harvard boy, you had pizza delivered. You must look at you. Pizza, some fancy European food. They're eating Jesus Christ pizza. So he he then walks over when he thinks he's got a beer and he had to steel himself.

Yeah. He's going to another bar.

He's up and then he's going on a pub crawl. He's fucking doing the the entire Sutherland pub crawl which consists of the rodeo bar and the Longhorn Bar. That's the pub crawl.

And then there is you know, you know, the Longhorn will was open after because they were there. They got the good now for the rodeo, dammit. Fuck man. It sounds cool. Sounds like we got a bull in there. You don't even have to have one.

But it's how people don't think you deal with a woman named Namers Longhorn. They'll know we have.

No, we got a bull. We don't have one. That's right. You ought to rodeo. We got to go down to the rodeo that this is.

So he drank one more beer there. Casual didn't slam real casual. No one said he acted weird or wasn't nervous or looking around or twitchy or he's just sitting around having a beer, watching the tube, really thinking about it. They're just hanging out, not even just look like any other time he's been in the bar, just came in to have a beer and have a good night, everybody. Like, he must have been on his way home, I guess.

So he heads home. And what he does is that nobody's gotten there yet because he is the way the timing worked out there. People are coming now. So what he does is he goes there's a bunch of high weeds behind the two houses. He just went and hung out in there for the rest of the night, out in the way he went and hid in the high weeds for the rest of the night. That's all just ahead. While the while the police and everybody of the helicopters of fucking chopper from Denver hovering above News five is out of his head, going to get news five is like we're going to be doing this for John Elway in ten years.

So this better be important. You know what I mean? Like this this shit's important, right? Crazy. So that's what's going on. And he's just hanging out in the weeds, watching it all. Listen to it all. They they set up fucking roadblocks. I mean, this is no messing around. He's going nowhere. He is just hanging out in the weeds, not even trying to flee, not doing it. Thing, the first the person who identified the bodies was the mayor of the town.

That's how small of a town this is. They literally called the mayor to ID some of his citizens who met and can think about that. That's how tiny of a town this is. This is like when the mayor came to investigate himself at one time and step on a kidney and shit.

That's what kind of what's happening here is our mayor. I don't even know who it is.

Kate. Oh, Gallegos. That's right. So I wouldn't have a fucking clue what I look like. Probably not. I don't know. I would say, oh, that guy. I never seen him before in my life. A goddamn voice in the airport have no idea what she looks like either. I couldn't save her either. The other thing I would be like I couldn't identify a goddamn mayor who's some lady. I don't know. It's kind of nice dress like a female.

That's your job for me to have decent jewelry. She does well for herself, obviously, and I'm not sure I know where she is, though.

So the this is Herb Meisner. He's the mayor of Sutherland and David Kelly, the son, the 36 year old son with the two small children he had worked at. Mesner, the mayor Meisner, the mayor also owns a grain elevator. And David had worked there before. Of course, they all everybody knows each other in this town. That is Shupe and Sons Inc and Henry Kelly also worked there part time. So this guy knows the whole family and he's the mayor.

He's got to go door to door and personally introduce himself. So the real role and shit.

Yeah, he's also not used to a horrible crime scenes. He's a mayor, not a police officer, not a homicide detective. This is a crime scene that even a like a regular police officer would have a hard time with this one. This is like a you know, you'd need like a twelve year homicide detective to be able to walk in here and not fucking lose a shit. He'd still feel it, but he wouldn't lose it on something like this.

He'd pretend like it was fine. But this is like when you see three dead kids, right? And also the way it was like that is wow. I mean, imagine taking that in. That's too much if you're not an officer, especially.

So this guy, if you're I mean, if you're not experienced in that he said these kids that are raped, James, that's I mean. And shot. Oh, fuck.

The other one's dead. Everybody else is dead, shot right in the fucking forehead. And it's crazy. And everybody here's a good shot, too. That's the other thing. He's a great shot. Shouldn't people in the forehead from across the room because he's a fucking great shot. They shoot all the time in that twenty two long rifle is deadly. Those things are so strong. It's not a huge house either. So it's you know, you're shooting someone from eight feet away right in the forehead.

So the mayor said, quote, I think I may have gone into mild shock from what I saw at that house. Later I went home and my wife and I put the kids to bed with us and then the phone call started. He said he was getting phone calls from New York City, from fucking San Francisco, from everywhere in the country. Major media outlets are Connie Chung is calling his house personally. It's a very weird thing to have Connie Chung call you and Barbara Walters.

Yeah, like very weird hair, three way phone call. I'm having it all done, sweetheart.

I've got a three way with Connie Chung. Barbara Walters. I need a minute. All right. Hold done. I'm almost finished so that Barbara's a real tough guy, but that Connie Italian.

She's a sweet, sweet and she acts, I'm telling you. So the next person to arrive is June Lindstrom. And she is she's a licensed practical nurse. So she's the one where they're going go around and see if anybody's alive. Basically go see if you can administer any medical care to anybody that might be breathing. Still, they sent her in to do this. This poor woman. She says she remembers it very, very vividly. She said that there was no way to help anybody.

She said David was actually alive when she arrived. The son was alive when she arrived, but there was nothing she could do. They got him in the ambulance. I think he died on the way to the hospital. But he wasn't conscious. He wasn't doing well, but he was breathing and barely had a pulse and shit like that. So she said, quote, I still work in the emergency room ten years later. So I'm used to a lot.

But these people were close personal friends. It's got to be brutal. That's to find new friends. Like that's bad enough. If it's just clinical and they're strangers, you look at them like whatever, but friends and then you have to look at them medically.

That's who she said that she found David lying on the floor in the doorway between the living room and kitchen and the body of his son, Daniel, was draped over him. And Mrs Kelly, the grandmother here, was crumpled up on the floor near the couch in the living room and Diane's body, the little girl, one of the little girls, the seven year old, I believe this girl. Yes. Was crouched up in a corner, quote, as if she'd been hiding.

And then the bodies of Florence and Henry were found in the rear bedroom. Those are the first two. I guess his first instinct was to pile them up in the bedroom and then it just got to. I think so. He didn't know what to do with himself, and that's wow. So by one forty three AM, Associated Press is able to transmit a story with the names of the victims. The fact that Irwin is the guy they're looking for, he's a neighbor of the Callies.

This whole thing caused Sheriff Hopp to have a mild heart attack.

He had a slight heart attack from all. The excitement was too much.

Nothing has ever happened to. That's how little has happened in this town. The first major thing, the sheriff has a fucking heart attack because. Oh, Jesus Christ, the excitement. I never thought I'd much which I mean, this scene is awful. But, yeah, they all they also reported that the murder weapon had been found and was already in police custody. This is not even two a.m. and they have like the whole story is out already by six thirty seven a.m..

It also stated that Simmons apparently told his father that he was responsible for the killings. That's in the press.

Well, less than 12 hours later. It's pretty impressive. It's a lot it's a lot to get out there. So the next morning at 8:00 a.m., he's still in the weeds, by the way. They never found him literally, literally in the weeds. He's walking out on the bar going, I'm really in the weeds, no pun intended.

Like Lincoln being bulletproof. That's the same thing. So 8:00 a.m., he runs up to his sister's back door and tries to get in the house and knocks on the door. And his sister is like, I'm a fucking letting you in here. You just killed everybody called. Holy shit. So his sister called the cops and said, fucking my brother's right here. I found him. He's at my back door. He's a fucking idiot. Then he tells she tells him, Hey, stupid, the cops are coming.

Wait here for them. Where are you going to live in the weeds for the rest of your life. So he does the cops show up. They take him into custody by 9:00 a.m. He's booked and you know, they take his clothes for evidence and all that sort of shit. They give him the Miranda warnings. And, you know, by 9:00 a.m., he's a 12 hours later, he is Mirandized. He's so there now.

He basically they talk to him. He says that they said, did you do the murders and sexual assaults over there? And he said, no, he's watching TV. This is watching TV. You know, so I couldn't have done nothing with TV on. Deadly Tower was on. Yeah. You know, good movie.

It's good stuff right there. So they talked to him a little more. And then after a minute he goes, all right, fine. I killed everybody. Just admits it. He goes, I killed everybody. And they said, well, what else? And then he graphicly because it's a confession and they need him to graphically imagine taking that confession. I don't I'm not going to do any I'm not going to graphically read off what he did.

Yeah. What we said earlier is plenty, but now we get it. But he had to had it. He had to they had to walk him through it minute by fucking minute. Imagine being that person sitting in the room while he explains matter of factly what he did.

Yeah, well, you've got to be hold and say, oh can gross stuff. Yeah. And you have to be like and then so that happened there and you have to act like he's telling you about, you know, hooking this trailer up to his truck. You have to act like it's no big deal because if you act like you're horrified, he might shut down. Yeah. So you have to act like, yeah, this is OK, you're just taking down your info like anything else, like taking your order at a restaurant, some weird shit.

So yeah, he said that he, he, you know, he killed, he sexually assaulted Florence and killed her and then killed the grandfather and he was trying to conceal the first two bodies that tried to bring him back in the bedroom so nobody would find him right away, he said. But then people just started coming in. Yeah. And he said, you know, he said he needed to kill everybody if you wanted to get out of there because they were in the living room and that's the only way out.

So he was like, how the hell was I supposed to get out? I couldn't just run away. I had to kill everybody before I ran away. Oh. And then I had to obviously sexually assault everybody as well.

So later on, the sheriff of mild heart attack or not, he's still doing media interviews and everything else. This is his moment to shine. Sheriff Hopper here. So he said in this that basically he gave a little too much information to the reporters.

He should have said no comment at this time, Pop.

Instead, they said it didn't surprise you when they said when the woman called and said that the guy was in the backyard and he said it didn't surprise me. And they said, why didn't it surprise you when the sheriff said, well, a lot of times they return to the scene of the crime. So right away it's one of those.

She said the reporter said, you mean after he shot the people, he went in and got a drink and at a bar and he said, yes, oh, God damn it, shut up, this is bad. And then the reporter said, why did he kill these people? And Sheriff said, I can't say at this time. We can't say anything. That's great. No comment. We have a suspect is in custody. Right. That's all.

You know, more later outside of that, you're going to fucked this case up.

Nope. But he's like, look at me. You picture him holding his gun. Look at me.

I'm in twelve hours. Got it. Twelve Mirandized.

Pretty fucking pussy.

That's not what they do back east over there in North Platte. That's back east to that. Right, North Platte. So he also admits during this whole thing during the interview that for seven or eight months leading up to the murders, he had been having fantasies of killing and raping young girls and older older women as well. Yeah, which are both things that your brain shouldn't do if you're a 30 year old man and never have. I mean, no offense to an older lady, but for a 30 year old man to have, like, rape fantasies, about 80 year old women is not it's not normal.

It's not normal. Even if they have a lot of money, still not normal. Even if they're not, it doesn't matter. Well, that's impossible.

But I'm sorry, 80 year old people aren't hot to a 30 year old to fuck. They might be hot to another 80 year old, but I don't know. I'm sure there's some. Is there an 80 year old on earth that you want to fuck? I don't know. I haven't seen them all.

Have you seen any of the ones caught your eye that you see?

I don't know. Dolly Parton aside, that's maybe it ain't even her. And she's you're about 80, you know, and you're 70s, late 70s. Would you make a couple? They would be I'd have to think of her when I was. You'd like to sing Jolene. Just a couple of bars. Just, you know what I mean? Like, you know, you would because it's older and it's no offense to her. Hit it hard.

We're all gross. It's fine. And we all get progressively grosser. It's no big deal. But I'm just saying, for a thirty year old man, sexual fantasies involve an 80 year old woman with the sabering. There's a reason that that granny porn is low on the on the trend list. Low on the PornHub, low on the algorithm. Yeah. It's not the first phase. Never recommended. No. Now it's usually very special usually, you know, to look for or barely legal.

Which ones. Groser. I don't know. Oh you're pretty, pretty fucked up about them. I don't know which one's worse. I don't know why it's wonderful. Barely legal. Sounds like that's horrible. It sounds like there's a cop right next to you being like I said, if it was fucking fifteen minutes ago, I'd have you in cuffs right now, you bastard. Which is uncomfortable, you know what I mean? Like, Jesus, I shouldn't be doing this.

But then he barely sounds like on the thing a child. I want nothing to do with him. No. Sounds like that'll be thirteen. Yeah that's fifteen. I get nine also. But that's what it is. That's what I'm supposed to do. That's the that's the allured in eighteen or is she. Oh yeah. Yeah. How is that in the law. Oh how is that. That's not in the law. There's a girl named Lupe who looks like she's thirteen and that's the reason that they put her in it.

Oh that's terrible.

No paper somehow something and she, she has braces and she it's terrible. Oh it's so bad.

So bad. Why do you fuckers do this? And if it wasn't one of the top searches, it wouldn't be on the home page. So it's filthy fucks talking to that. A lot of them. A lot. James, the number is astronomical. It has to be. It's terrible. It's a home page amount of whacking rock.

That's a lot of home page level.

That's too much. It's too much. Yeah. And then mother in law is next where it's like 50 and 60 in there. I've seen like for like those though, they're like, OK, when they say team she's like twenty seven. When they say milf she's twenty nine. When they say mother in law she's thirty four. So let's be realistic with the point of Zaib and then Granny is forty four and then she's retired the next year. The next year.

It's like then she's in the back of the archive like you.

Meanwhile just a normal that's that's to really change the production date of, of teen to granny are like six weeks, six weeks apart.

You never know. So you can go either way. I'm sure there's porn actresses that are in like teen videos and MILF videos in the same fucking week apparently.

Yeah. They just put a different outfit on, right. Oh, I put like a button down shirt on. Look at me. I'm a melt your hair bigger. Yeah, just the ponytail. I'm in a business but now I'm a MILF.

Before I was in like a tube top bouncing around bubbly now on a team and studied it.

If dudes can just stop it, knock it off, please stop. You didn't get it when you were a teenager because you were a fucking dork. You're fine now. Just get chicks your age and. Yeah, and I don't think he did well with the ladies, but he did get married at a young age. You found somebody that would settle down. I know people who are, you know, much older than that that still are looking for people.

So if you can find one by twenty two with a seventy five IQ. Right. Twenty two plus seventy five is ninety seven. And that's not bad. All right. That's not bad.

That's getting better. I'm confident that that's what the teenage shit is though. It's just you were a fucking dork in high school and that's why you didn't get it and now you're thirty or thirty eight. I'm sure that's a it's got to be what it is or you're just a pervert, one of the top, either a pervert or you're a dork or both.

And that's why you're a fucking pervert. Don't act on these. Knock it off. Yeah. Be a pervert with somebody your own. Made it off the page. You. Yes, get it off my fucking page. Stop it. I don't want to fucking log on and see the very first. I guarantee you, if I go on the right now, it probably will be. The first video is barely legal or teenager. It's got of every time.

Yeah.

Like teen takes eight cocks. Right.

You know, some sort of round robin gang bang teen show open gross.

Fuck you.

She's so open. That sounds terrible. Jesus Christ. I know for me as a thirty nine year old dude to get on a like for brunch that's a lot.

That's now open. Open.

Jesus the thirty nine year old dude. It's like I read that and then I go well I'm turned off. Thanks. Yeah. That's one way to keep me from watching this shit. OK, that's a deterrent. Maybe that's what it is. It's a deterrent. Maybe it's being planted by like there's no I like the evangelical Christians are like planting those videos. Yeah. They're like this is going to grow. Half the guys won't be able to whack and half of them will come really fast.

But either way, it's not who we're going to Florida, it's God's work. So, Jesus, I have to now talk about a funeral for six Shahrizat, four for three children.

Oh, God, that's disgusting. So anyway, no disrespect to the Kelly family, obviously.

Obviously nothing to do with the wacking when them please, so that the high school auditorium is where they have the funeral because so many people want to attend in a town of at the time, 850 fifty people, a thousand people showed up.

So that's a the whole town plus some, that's some in North Park and standing room over there. So it's, it's full man. Anyway, it's crazy. So they talk to some of these people and they say that, you know, people I don't know why, but they said even after that, they were all locking their doors. It's like once they caught him, who else is there over? He was by himself. Yeah, nobody else.

But I guess they figure, well, if he did it, who maybe someone else will. And he someone here, a guy named Clyde Lindstrom, he says that he was talking to Amos a short time after the shootings and he said, I can't imagine it in a little town like this, which is the slogan of small town murder, I can't imagine it will down like this.

Good news is you don't have to imagine it's already happened. It's right there. Step inside that house. Right. They stood outside, apparently. What the press was there as well. And Amos tearfully said, quote, My my son killed five or six people here. So that was the press got a hold of that as well as famous.

You don't know how many. Now, in the newspaper at this time, I found an article that cracked me up big. Thank fuck something was, you know, weird and funny. Yes.

But on crime in sports, if you're a crime and sports listener, one of the segments we do at the end is I feel bad for all these people, all the people. This person is wrong. Over the course of the episode, I feel bad for his mom and his wife that he cheats on and beats up. And this one in that one, but not nearly as bad as I feel for. And I'll go into five people with that athlete's exact name who are, you know, a CEO of a bank and a thing over here, like this regular guy who works on an assembly line.

Successful or just not that guy. But they have to be that guy, unfortunately. And people must say something. Well, there's an actual name or an actual fucking newspaper article called names.

Call it names cause it's cause problems.

It's a UPI article. So it's a national article. And it's a guy in Maxwell, the guy named Charles Edgar Simmons. Simmons, same spelling of Maxwell as being confused with Irwin Charles Simmons of Sutherland, who's been charged with all these murders. What's his middle name? It's Charles. Edgar Simmons is the one guy and this guy is Irwin Charles Simmons. So people are fucking it all up the poor bastard. And initial reports listed the listed Irwin as Charles Irwin Stayman.

So then they thought, oh, well, they must have just messed up the Irwin. It's Edgar Charles Eggertsson. They're saying this guy did it. So this guy is like being harassed, his family's being harassed and he's like, it's not fucking me. I swear to fucking Christ is. It's a small town and that's not a norm. I've never seen that last name before. Yeah, it's a it's a weird one. Yeah, it's strange.

So his legal name, by the way, is Irwin, the other one that murders Irwin.

Charles in this guy is Charles Jesus. How ridiculous. Edgar they're cousins, by the way. Out. Yeah. Oh, that's fucked.

They're cousins. And they both have Charles in their names because they're cousins and we're to named the same in person.

God damn it. Jesus.

Oh, God. The guy is this one's married and has children. He's thirty four years old. The other one's thirty years old. So it's definitely not him, but it's similar. So now pre-trial, the judge, because of all this publicity, he puts a gag order on the media. This is highly unusual. Yeah. Basically, you can come in, but you can't report.

What you hear is what they say this is. Very, very odd, I come in and take notes and get your article ready, but don't you can't say a word, you say anything about anything. It's very fucking weird. Here they are. The Nebraska Press Association sues the judge. It's a big deal. This goes all the way to the Supreme Court later on. So the deputy county attorney here, he said that he's got all pissed off because of all the other articles, all the information out there.

And some of it was true and some of it was false. It was hard to pick a jury in the jury pool. Yeah. So he says this is great to the to a group of reporters. This is the prosecutor quote, God, it I'm not going to try this case on the lawn of this house or in the goddamn media. This is fucking amazing.

God damn it. I love when a frustrated person starts a sentence out with God damn it. And it's my favorite opener. God damn it, son of a bitch. You people are never going to fucking listen. And who is he that the judge. The prosecutor, the prosecutor, deputy county attorney Marvin Hausner. God damn it, I'm not going to try this case on the lawn of this house or in the goddamn media. And then somebody shouted back to him.

Somebody shouted back, you're going to you're making an ass out of yourself. Tell us what happened, which is hilarious when that's one of the one of the fucking reporters yelled that somebody shouts and I can and they say, you're making an ass yourself, which is a phase.

And now you guys are making an ass of me, God damn, damn it. And he says, quote, There's a TV helicopter overhead and we haven't even gotten the six bodies out yet. So he's like it got out of control and they couldn't they didn't know how to do this, just never happened to them before. So they didn't know like when you have a crime scene like this, this is what you do.

They to know they're just like, oh, my God, tell everyone, lock their doors like they freaked out. So the jury pool and this is important out of one hundred and thirty citizens called. Seventy two were examined. More than a third of those told the judge that they had already formed an opinion on the murders because they all had heard they all got the breaking news and everything else. We were all watching the dead let our jury pools all fucked out.

Oh, it's all fucked out. It's a fucked out jury pool of that group. Less than half identified the media as their source, though, of their prejudice. A larger portion of those who had an opinion did not specifically identify the basis for their prejudices. Some of them were friends with the Kelleys or some of the other witnesses or also word of mouth around work. People told you, shit, it's, you know, whatever. So, yeah, that the gag orders here, basically, they said that they they didn't hear anything else later on.

So what they heard at first is what the jurors said. That's what they believe now because nothing else came out. So the gag order when it ended up doing was making false information spread. It made a way where he made a rumor spread rather than just going on. I read in the paper it said this rather than that it was I heard it to him. I heard he took one heads off and another one and then switched them. Right.

And then had sex with he said, what if a marriage ceremony. Yeah. What if I had sex with Grandpa.

Well Grandma has had on it. That'll be fun. Right. That's, you know, now.

So the jury here is sequestered as well. Once they get a jury, they sequestered them and they are told not to read and which shouldn't be a problem for most of them.

And to avoid broadcast news reports. Sorry, that was mean on Mars.

Mrs. Bulu Lifestream, who with her husband runs her husband, John, John and Beulah. There you go, everybody. Name your kid Bula. That hasn't been used in a while. They run a thirteen thousand acre farm and Brady and she was one of the jurors and she said she knew most of the details of the sexual assaults, knew about the father statement about his son's guilt, saw the sheriff on television. Yet she still thought she could be an impartial juror.

Yeah, yeah. She said, I've raised a family.

I know you have to hear both sides.

Yeah, I knew most of the details of the sexual assault.

I'm sure he's got his side. I heard he rapes children after he murders them. I'll keep an open mind. I'm going to let him. How?

I'd like to hear what he has to say about that, though. I don't prejudge people who are lady. Yeah, she said when one child comes with a story, I say, well, wait, I have to hear the other side.

If there's a broken lamp, it's not a shot raped fucking fourth grader. What has had six bodies, right? Six bodies and children. There's fucking children. Well, it's this side. There's a God damn. Oh, my God. This is just ridiculous. So I another one. What kind of hear the other side. Eugene Seton, another jury juror here works on the county road crew. Yeah. And he runs his own small farm. He believes in the wisdom of the judge's gag order.

He said yes, it would be very hard to put anything I heard before the trial out of my mind. I guess he was one of the people didn't hear anything quiet out there on the road, I guess. Holy shit.

But the things they did here, it's tough to put that out of your mind. Got to be. Up there, his wife heard about the murders, though, so he didn't, but his wife did while watching the deadly tower on television.

I swear to God she got the dog shit scared out of my lock the door.

Henry So and also knew something about the sexual aspects and Erwin's admission to his father, but he is sure that she never discussed it with me. I'm out quote. I'm out of doors most of the time and I don't have much time for talk. OK, your wife who just had the holy shit scared. I don't have much time. I'm outdoors. Most of the time. I got enough. She didn't shout from the porch. Get your fucking ass in here.

There's a psychopath on the loose. Quote, I'm out of doors most all the time. Don't have time for much talk out of doors. Out of doors. Djura Robert Gerard is a superintendent at the North Platte Gas Company, said he knew most of the details about the murders and sexual assaults. Quote from hearsay and from some of the newspapers and radio. His wife remembers hearing all the gruesome facts of the murders the Wednesday after the crime when she went to the beauty parlor North Black and they all just talked about it, quote, two hours of free time, quote, My hairdresser's husband is a cousin of the Keli's.

And she told me about how the little girl had been raped and then killed all the way around. But yes. And then Mr. Kelly had been dragged into the bedroom. The Simmons boys were a bunch of hoodlums. My son went to school with one and they were always beating up people. That's what she said. But she also says that she was also able to keep separate the preconceived notions. She literally said all that stuff.

I heard he raped a little girl and the whole family's hoodlums and the cousins beat people up. And I think I can judge him fairly. My hairdresser's, not ten of theirs. And so that means I like them and they're pieces of shit, so I hate them. But I'll keep an I'm going to be fair.

Yeah.

What are we this is small town bullshit. Yeah. In a city they just go, oh have you ever heard of this person yelling, get the fuck out of here. We got other people that I haven't heard of him. Take a fucking hike here and there like that. Good enough. I'll take it. So the next question is, is he sane?

Because what he did is you could look at that and go, this is bizarre. Yeah. You know, this is odd, not just some sane boundaries.

I would call this aberrant behavior, like I said before. So defense psychiatrist said they believe that his IQ was about a seventy five, has a drinking problem, was under emotional stress ever since the birth, the death of his infant daughter.

And therefore he was insane at the time that his infant daughter died either four or eight years earlier.

I'm not sure which. But either way, that's a pretty big space between butchering a bunch of people and losing your kid. So it's a broad window, seems like a cool down period that you could probably overcome something like that. So, yeah, prosecution experts offer testimony that his actions were so complex that he had to know what he was doing. I don't see them as complex. I see them as a mess. Yeah, I see this as a very sporadic.

It's a disorganized, disorganized and disorganized. This is definitely disorganized. He I mean, he is literally shooting and raping as it comes out like, you know, what's it called, what's the word I'm looking for here? And I catch all of just, you know, never mind.

It doesn't matter in terms is a is a criminal term. No, no, no. Just a general term. I don't know what the hell I was reaching for there, but it's gone now. It's gone. It's gone.

Point is, it's not necessary. We don't even know what he went there for. You know, that's I mean, we don't even know how to get from to because we don't have any, but we don't have an idea. We just got be. And there's no, like, trigger. There's no like he got mad and then did this. You just hanging out with his amusing and go outside. Now I just feel like doing it like that thought entered his mind.

I think I'll kill a whole family. So seventy six is the trial. And on the recommendation of the public defender, he pleads innocent by reason of insanity. So there's seven days of testimony here. One of the days, the first day he by the way, the courtroom is packed. Most of the people there are high school civics students bussed in from Sutherland and a bunch of other. They're bringing high school kids in to watch a real murder trial that's fucked up.

Don't bring teenagers in to hear these details. Well, I mean, I guess I don't know.

That's a good way to get them right on the homepage of PornHub, I guess.

So it's also a good way for them to go, holy shit, the world is messed up. If you guess if you're a teenager growing up in Sutherland, you don't even know this exists in the world. Maybe this is good for you. I'm not sure how that works.

But is this part of school, though? It's part I don't know, curriculum. Has Amos was there? He was wearing an overalls and a suit coat. He was, but he wore a suit coat over the overalls. He's like, I don't have a suit. I got these overalls, but I found a sport coat and I'm going to put it on over it. Right. But you wear the suit coat to hide the overalls. That's the idea behind it.

Just put on some britches. I get I mean, I don't think he has any things that you think maybe overalls. He's working the rail yard. I think he's in overalls. Guy is going to lose his pants out there like the pin striped ones. Like the like you can. What are you going to, like, get a six month old baby? Maybe he's but, gosh, I hope they are not positive. I don't know. Maybe so.

Apparently, a couple of days into the trial, it comes out that Amos is going to be unable to testify because he had a heart attack. Mild. He's not dead or anything, but he had a heart attack. So I think the whole thing's a lot for Amos. He's he's an older guy and Amos crumples from it. Nine kids and a career in the rail yard that'll put some strain on your heart. So the doctor determined that he can't testify.

Now, the sheriff here, in an answer to a question, has there ever been any act of the defendant in your presence which would indicate to you that he might have a mental problem? He answered no, because he's a mental health expert. By the way, on cross-examination, he admitted that he was not schooled in determining or looking into any of those things and doesn't know what anything would be. He doesn't know what indicators of a mental problem would be.

I mean, I didn't see him fucking a frog or not that. But basically he didn't hit himself on the head while going blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm crazy. So I don't think he's crazy.

But he did, you know, recoil and not talk to us at all for several hours, which is also an indicator, sir.

Well, he did say that he's observed a number of people in transporting them back and forth from Nebraska to the state institution. So based on that, he feels like he can get a pretty good judge of someone competency legally. The sheriff testified that he knew the Irwin pretty well because he had been in jail several times. So he's like, I've arrested him before. So he clearly had a bias toward him. Also, the this is this is insane.

OK, the sheriff is a witness number one. So he's testifying as a witness in a trial. When you have a witness, a witness is sequestered. Witnesses aren't allowed to see other witnesses testify. Witnesses can see opening, witnesses can see closing, and then witnesses can come in as they are subpoenaed. The otherwise they are sequestered outside. They have to sit in the fucking hallway. Like if you go to a murder trial here, the homicide detective sits in the hallway till it's his turn to testify.

Then he has to leave again. He doesn't know what the fuck happened in there ever, because you if you hear other people's testimony, you can then tailor your shit to them. So they do that instead.

That plus it looks like you're official then and you have to be even with the other witnesses, they let this sheriff stay there in uniform inside, not in the back inside the bar of the courtroom. They're like, he's the bailiff. Basically, he's sitting there. He basically has Irwin in custody the whole time he came in handcuffed to Irwin. He sits next to her when the whole time, except when he's testifying against him. And then he goes and sits back down again.

And his official capacity. Wow. Which is he shouldn't be able to hear everybody's testimony. He shouldn't be there doing that. Plus testifying. That means that he's above other witnesses. There's a million legal reasons why he shouldn't be doing this.

But what it comes down to is conflict of interest. That's what that is entirely.

But literally, it's a small town and he's the sheriff. So he's going to keep an eye on that prisoner. And that's how it works. Now, the jury is sequestered at the Howard Johnson Motel in North Platte. So they're going to live it up over there.

You know it free HBO. Oh, baby room service. They the jurors occupied one wing of the motel that was closed and had two adjoining rooms that were used as recreation rooms. The jurors were fed in the dining room, separated from the rest of the restaurant by a folding door partition. So, yeah, the during this trial, the trial judge will later say that he went to the motel on two occasions. What for? To see that the sequestration orders were being properly carried out.

First visit was on January 8th, the night the first night they were sequestered. And the second visit was early in the evening of January 10th, where he just made a visit to pop in and say hi. On each occasion, he checked the jurors accommodations and services and conferred with the hotel manager or the palace with respect to the arrangements. Had no conversations with the jurors except for cursory acknowledgement or greeting or something. OK, he was at the motel for ten to twenty minutes and that's how that went.

The sheriff fucking Sheriff Hopp, this guy here testified he made three visits to the Motel three. You are a fucking witness and you can't go. And the sheriff, you're on the you can't do this. You can't talk to them three times. Three times. He went to the motel during the period they were sequestered. First visit was on the eighth we went there. That was the first night, January eight. He went to the motel to deliver a suitcase to a juror who had left a suitcase at home.

So they had brought it as there. He doesn't have a deputy that can do this.

He left he left the suitcase with the bailiff and then went to the jurors private dining area and visited with the bailiff and four or five of the jurors at a nearby table for fifteen minutes. He fucking hung out with them.

Was the prisoner handcuffed to him the whole time, his handcuffs dangling off him? He testified that his second visit to the motel was about nine p.m. on a date somewhere in the middle of the trial. He said he went upstairs to the jurors quarters and one of the jurors recreation rooms. He testified that he saw and had conversations with several of the jurors while he was there. And he stayed for about an hour. He played cards, Jimi. He sat down and played cards with these people.

Are you fucking kidding me? He's entertaining them. Dude, you're the sheriff. That is so biased. You can't do that. You're going to get votes for next year. You don't need bias for this case. So it's an election year. Oh, that's true. You never know. His third visit to the motel was on a Thursday night in January, same day, which he testified as a rebuttal witness in the case. He testified then went and saw the jury in the hotel that night.

Holy shit. He went upstairs to the jurors quarters and one of the recreation rooms, there were four or five jurors in the room. And the sheriff testified, testified that he engaged in general conversation that lasted approximately 30 minutes. Dude, you can't do this. After the visit, the sheriff went into the adjoining recreation room where several other jurors were sitting, some of the jurors were playing cards and enjoyed and invited the sheriff to join them. He did and played three games of blackjack for a period of about seven minutes.

This guy has no idea what he's doing. That's what it is that he doesn't know. He doesn't talk about any experience in this. He has no fucking clue. And he knows all these people say, look, I have Bob over where you guys want to hang out.

It's fucking silly. So the closing arguments come around here. And obviously there's all the evidence. They play his confession in court, which will be I would want to sit and listen to that shit heavy. That's heavy shit. So the the prosecutor here, the guy who said, goddamn it, at first he goes, goddamn it. And it's that would be great if he opened his closing like that. God damn it.

Ladies and gentlemen of the fucking jury, it's great to see you. I've had it with this shit. God damn it. He says the interests of society demand the death penalty for Mr. Irwin Charles Simmons on six counts of first degree murder. He said it's also sexual assault. There's a lot more stuff there.

Yeah, he said that he murdered the family in cold blood and named them all off and their ages.

And, you know, it's bad. And then he said, quote, No set of facts could be more heinous, atrocious, cruel or manifest more depravity than was shown in this case. Hard to argue with. That really is the defense based, its arguments on the constitutionality of Nebraska's death penalty and on its plea that Simmons is suffering from a severe psychotic episode and that he has a history of mental instability. Malice is one thing. The defense attorney says, quote, He's not normal.

The evidence here clearly supports that. Well, yeah, he's not he's just not the normal, everyday functioning 30 year old man. Yeah, yeah. But still, he's a murderer. He is a very functional murderer. He did 30 years without doing it. No shit. So the verdict comes in and it's basically not guilty by mental defect, not guilty altogether. Are you fucking guilty as the only two options? And they find him guilty of all of everything, the whole the whole shebang.

Wrap it up. Wrap it up.

Sentencing comes around. And yeah, he doesn't really do himself money favors there, doesn't have a big, remorseful, teary eyed thing. So he is sentenced. You, sir, may fuck off death in the electric chair.

Oh, boy.

Yeah, that's right. That's a rough one. But I mean, you know, this is bad.

Yeah. This is one of them knew it was coming. Yeah. This is one of those things where you're like, oh, Jesus. He what he did was like, oh man. It's hard to argue the opposite for that guy. It's tough. And he admits it and he definitely did it. And it's there's no mystery about it. It's like he almost just this is one of those where I don't like the pageantry of the death penalty. I hate it.

I hate the fact that we're all going to it's just weird. It's creepy to me for us to line somebody up and we're going to start well, this is what we're going to do to you, because that's just weird. We should just worst as the cheerleaders outside.

That's I mean, if we're going to have a death penalty, have it be sometime in the next ten years while you're sleeping, someone's going to come into your cell with a ball peen hammer and just open up the back of your fucking skull.

And that'll be the day tomorrow while you're sleeping. You never know when it's coming. Yeah. No one can celebrate it or do anything else. That's how we're going to do it. Then that's how we should do it. I don't fucking know.

Obviously it's a bad idea, but it has to be better than what we're doing now, which is a big like almost a reality show. It's almost like the voice fucking, you know, kills a human. It's creepy.

You got the golden buzzer. Hey, look at that. Look what's coming out of there. It's poison. So, Simmons Wow. He said that after the trial, they asked if any, if he had any resentment toward members of his family who testified against him. And he said, quote, All they done was tell the truth. Yeah, OK. Well, there you go. He believes he got a fair trial and he thanked the jury for giving it to him.

You're listening. Hearing them out is what he said.

So now the gag order after this goes all the way to the Supreme Court where the Supreme Court unanimously, which unanimously, you know, would do that Brown versus Board of Education. And this is the only two fucking unanimous things I've ever heard of him so unanimously struck down a Nebraska court order preventing the press from reporting a confession and other testimony heard in open court in a murder case.

So constitutionality, they find it unconstitutional and a violation of all sorts of shit there. So they basically said at that point, it's a private trial and a trial is a public trial. It's the whole point of a fucking public trial. Right. That's what makes it public, is the press. Otherwise, it's a closed room. It's not open to not everyone can see it. So only the people in the room see it then it's private. So anyway, 1977 comes around October 12th, Nebraska's electric chair.

It gets repaired for the newly scheduled execution of him. They schedule it. Eight Supreme Court sets a January 21st, nineteen seventy eight execution date. Holy shit, and they got it all polished off. They brought out the wax and fucking they got that big oil in it. And what's that yellow can that people spray on shit.

Would the Thompson's water seal that now? It's the old English. Oh yes. Old English old English language, but not the bush furniture polish. So it smells terrible.

It's not. They smell about the same. Yeah, they do act very strong. Now Nebraska's electric chair has not been used since the nineteen fifty nine execution of Charles Starkweather. Wow. Starkweather was the last guy in there and that had been almost twenty years. There are some new rivets and bolts in it for this side to make sure it was grease up the put some forty on the switch. Could oil change. Never knowing who was one of 12 men executed by the state since 1920, all in the electric chair.

Two men were on Nebraska's death row in 1972 when the US Supreme Court struck down their earlier capital punishment law. So then they ended up being commuted to life. That was Duane Earle. Pope had been sentenced to die for three murders during a 1965 bank robbery. And Thomas Alvares, who was given the death sentence for the 1966 murder of a woman in Lincoln, they Mary O'Shay. So both of them were commuted. So Nebraska's capital punishment law was passed in 1973, and it provides the death penalty for Halifax's provides.

Yeah, like it's a comedy. Like it's a favor. Like we provide Continental breakfast and it provides the death penalty for premeditated murder or for killings in the course of sexual assault, arson, robbery, kidnapping, hijacking or burglary.

We just got accommodations for provides. That's a oh, I read that last night, four o'clock in the morning. It went by. I left at a 40 year old newspaper from Nebraska, just from that line it provides. So nineteen seventy eight. He files an appeal and Simmons does. Obviously, there's nobody else who would file an appeal here.

He alleges that the Lincoln County Sheriff, Gordon Hop Glouster or Gilston, was a principal and necessary witness for the state of Nebraska in prosecuting the murder against him, and that during the trial he visited the motel in which members of the jury and alternates were sequestered. Converse played cards and associated with members of the jury and alternates also alleges that the trial judge presided over the trial, visited the motel where they were sequestered and had communications with members of the jury.

Ridiculous. None of it. Very avoidable. Very avoidable. Are they bitching? No. Within their accommodations are fine, probably. All right, that's all. Send somebody. Send anybody to ask everybody. OK, in here. OK, good.

So the answer of the state sorry, the alleged alleged that though the trial judge was present at the motel on two occasions, he didn't discuss the case or attempt to do so. The answer also alleges that although the sheriff was present in the motel three times, he didn't discuss the case either. So it's all fine. It's not a matter of discussing the case.

It's a matter of how do we know that he was there? There's too much opportunity either way.

You have your endearing yourself to the jury and you're a witness. So you're getting them to believe you more because you're becoming friends with them. That's not the same advantage that guy has. You can't do that. So, yeah. So old Sheriff Hop from the seventy-nine appeal. They they judge the judge's judge that he met improperly with jurors while at the trial while it was in session. And Eugene Bailiff Eugene Larson said in an affidavit that, quote, As a matter of course, Gilstrap would go to the jurors motel or he would play cards with them, they say he said it was even more times than what he had originally said.

So the Nebraska Supreme Court on April 3rd, nineteen seventy nine, ordered a new trial, got to him for him or vacates the sentence and the conviction all gone.

And his contact with jurors during the trial, they said, they said posed a problem of constitutional dimensions. That's what the way they put it. They feared that his conduct was intended to persuade jurors that he was conscientious and that he was trying to convince them of his credibility as a witness, obviously, just by being a stand up guy. Just wanna check on all your accommodations. Good man. That is the defendant over here checking to make sure you guys got enough to eat tonight.

No, he testified twice, said that he was mentally competent, said, you know, everyone was mentally competent and yet he's unwarranted. Contacts with the jurors have been the critical factor in determining the one key issue which was determinative of the defendant's guilt or innocence. So not good. They they so, yeah, he's going to have to they're going to have to do a resentencing and all that kind of shit here. Retrial. Retrial. Yeah. So a fair trial.

They finally say a fair trial before a fair and impartial jury is a basic requirement of constitutional due process. To condone the conduct of Sheriff Galster in this case would violate the fundamental integrity of all that is embraced in the constitutional concept of a. Fair trial by a fair and impartial jury. Yeah, you fucked it up from fucking square one, you idiot. We can't roll on two with the way this is done now.

So new trial comes around. They said no question we're going to retry him as soon as humanly fucking possible. We're not going to let him go. So new trial now during the trial, pretty much the same evidence gets in during the trial, though. There's multiple offers from the defense for a settlement. Oh, let's just because I mean, they got the electric chair in the first try. So they're like, let's do a plea. Let's just get one for life.

What do you say? And the lawyer said, just trying to save my client's life here, just trying to get them out of the chair. He knows he's going to get convicted. So he says there that he offered to enter a plea of guilty to second degree murder. But the offer was rejected by the prosecution. No second degree murder would have carried life imprisonment and not enough. That's life imprisonment. Think about the remember that off.

But life without fucking possibility. It's life with possibility. OK, that.

OK, so Helvey said that the private plea bargain, private plea bargaining offer was made several times to the chief prosecutor, quote, Our goal was to avoid the death penalty. On several occasions we offered the prosecution pleas of guilty to six counts of second degree murder and three counts of sexual assault. He said that the last defense offer was made on the Monday right before jury deliberations. And, you know, he said, quote, They the prosecution did not want to negotiate any plea.

OK, so the jury deliberates here and they asked the judge a question. They'll come out and ask ask things. I'll have a note for the judge. They asked if special knowledge, quote unquote, could be used during the deliberations, particularly if it involved knowledge of psychological testing techniques. In other words, one of our juror, no psychological shift. Can we ask him about that?

So the jurors also asked if they're that their memories of psychological testing dates for that Simmons had been examined, be refreshed, and the judge said no to both of those. So wouldn't give them that, wouldn't give them the dates. So they said they did not consider the one guy on the jury, the foreman, Lee is his last name. He did not consider his master's degree in psychology, noting that it was it felt it was just it was felt some information possessed by some of the jurors might possibly be of use in terms of evidence presented by the expert witness.

So they deliberate for a while. They come back with a verdict of not guilty by reason of insanity. OK, yeah, that's fucked up. Yeah. Could have had life in prison. That's fucked. And they said, now we're going to do this and I'm not guilty by reason of insanity. So now that means he will be held in a mental institution, quote, till he's not a threat anymore.

So, hey, we'll find out what he got from death to the fucking mental hospital. He's so yeah.

The jurors, they said beyond a reasonable doubt was the key element here. They said that, quote, It was impossible for us to convince our to conceive that the evidence showed beyond a reasonable doubt that this man was sane. While he committed the acts that were part of our instructions. He said that they deliberated, they talked about it first. A majority favored guilty.

And the jury convinced itself they had a real 12 angry men moment in there where they fucking all were fighting with a smarty pants that's done some fucking psychological stuff.

Yeah, they said Monday afternoon the sentiment of the majority of jurors was originally for a verdict other than the one they finally reached. But the majority were in favor of a different verdict. But then they said that, quote, We just decided that it was our obligation to reach a verdict and we were just going to stay there until we did. None of us wanted to stay here there a week or several weeks, but we decided to go on. And then finally on the Wednesday, they said we were all absolutely so convinced that he had committed such a variety of bizarre acts that it was difficult for us to get past that it was a stumbling block, the major stumbling block.

So the one juror, though, came out and said that there was bullying and jurors were fighting and bullying each other. And it was a matter of like this one had a more personality. He went down. The vote counts. He was like on Monday, the vote was taken and it came up five for insanity, seven for guilty of first degree murder. Then the second vote was taken on Tuesday, six for insanity, two for one count of first degree murder and five counts of second degree murder.

And they were passing all this shit out. Right. It's weird as fuck. Third ballot had different results.

Ten votes for insanity, one vote for guilty of first degree murder on all six counts and one vote, which was, you know, the other one with some second, some first, all that shit.

So finally, on the fourth ballot, they they unanimously voted not guilty by reason of insanity. The judge is pissed off at it. Oh, yeah. The judge said the quote, The defendant is guilty, insane.

As he told the the press afterwards, he can't do this. So weird. So fucking is that it's not it's not that's questionable, right? Yeah, it's on the borderline, I would say. Boy, he said that the jury shirked from their responsibility, quote, The jury didn't decide the case according to the evidence presented, and they didn't follow the law.

Jesus Christ, they're a bunch of fucking people. You stuck in a Howard Johnsons for two weeks where you are from. Maybe you do, right? Maybe you should have pressured the prosecutor to accept that plea. Then did you hear the things that they were doing? They're not fucking, you know, legal scholars. They don't fucking know. That's what presented in front of you. And every lawyer will tell you in the courtroom better, I don't know, negotiate it out of court because you don't want to leave all your hard work in the hands of 12 dummies.

Yeah, that's what they say all the time. Right. And you got to do it on there. That's that's. No, you got a master's in psychology.

You got to knock the champ out. That's the rule in boxing. You're not going to win by the city. I don't really kill himself. Give them hell.

Fuck. How long will he be in the loony bin? Well, that will be decided by the state's Mental Health Commitment Act as when it goes up for sale. Basically, you have to make once a year. He's up for review. Oh, that's fucked. Once a year he's up for review and he'll be in the care of the director of medical services there. They're going to decide where to put him. Exactly. And the verdict and then a verdict in gender's a charge of whether the person is mentally ill and dangerous to himself or others.

So basically, when they say not dangerous to himself or others, he's supposed to be set free at that point. But a judge has to decide that. He's saying also it's not just psychiatrists, he's fine and they let him out the door. Then it has to be is once a year review is with a judge.

OK, so Sheriff Hopp said he's, quote, heartsick over the outcome of this. Well, it's your fault, you fucking idiot. Yeah, dummy. It's probably because you're an idiot. Yeah, that's why it was all wrapped up the up.

But he said he, quote, heartsick. He's been a sheriff's department officer for twenty five years. Seventeen of those. He's been the sheriff. And yeah, he just said he's never, never felt sick or about anything. Just feels awful. Sounds like you got a bad heart. Yeah. No shit.

So what are the old Gjerde. The old jurors are like what the fuck did you guys do.

Talk to the seventy six jurors. They were like huh. Fuck is wrong with you people.

Yeah. They talked about it, they said quote from my review of it, I don't agree, but I'm not able to comment on the evidence they had because he doesn't know what they had. We don't know what exactly was presented to them. It's a bunch of people, a bunch of the old jurors, quote, My heart just sunk. I just can't believe it. It isn't right. He wasn't insane. It's a shame all this money had to be spent.

There's no doubt in my mind he knew what he was doing. I'm afraid a couple of years from now he'll be let loose and it may happen again. I feel what we did was right. And then just three years later, to have it changed another person. It's unbelievable. It sure was a lot of work for nothing. And people are pissed. Yeah, they're really pissed that they went and did that. And then it got turned away.

Thrown out.

Yeah, well, they have baked beans with the sheriff. Yeah. Fucking assholes I'm saying. Yeah, there you go. So Erwin's dad too comes out here. Amos. Oh Amos there. He says since this whole thing has happened and Irwin's mom has died, definitely, he says it was definitely from the stress of other thing. One of his children has died. It's one of their nine children has died here. And he said to have this over with the acquittal by reason of insanity said, quote, takes quite a load off my mind.

He says, maybe I'll get to feeling better now. Jesus Christ. And fucked up for years. He's had a hard time here.

So, yeah, it's it's rough. He said that I had to be something wrong, but I don't know what nobody in his right mind would pull something like that when they asked him, does he think his son's saying he's like, I mean, I saw that shit. It didn't look same to me, which, you know, yeah, he saw us. He said he's only seen his son once since the first trial when he traveled to the complex in Lincoln for a visit because it's three and a half hours away, he said they don't correspond by mail or anything like that.

There's little contact between anything there. And he said the Amos said the situation's put a lot of pressure on him and he didn't even attend the second trial because his doctor wouldn't allow it. His health was bad and it was a lot of stress for him with a heart attack the first time. So they said, why don't you chill out? They asked about his wife who died, and Amos said, quote, She was worried a lot about it.

They kept hollering about it on TV and on the radio. Every time she heard about it, she'd bawl. I think a lot of it a lot of it was caused by that, her health problems. And she said that Amos said the medical and burial expenses just broke me. So he's like broke and sick and his wife died. And it's yeah, it's bad. He said that people around town don't treat him any differently, though. He said they all treat me just fine to see your face.

Yeah.

And then it must have been a terrible father. My other eight kids. I haven't killed anybody. Jesus Christ. He said there's no sentiment against anyone in the family, anyone. And this is a neighbor. No sentiment against the family. Everybody in town likes old Amos. It's no reflection on him. So the town folk, though, are fucking heads exploding, exploding. People are so mad. Holy shit. We hope that Jerry can live with themselves.

The Kellys, where people didn't bother anybody their whole life, these people we saw in the street all the time and now this, I happen to think it can happen to your daughter and our people are losing their fucking minds about this show.

I mean, all over the paper here, the prosecutor is pesto. He said, quote, If I had thought he was insane at the time, I wouldn't have filed first degree murder charges because the press asked him, do you agree with the jury's?

Do you agree with your loss? No, I don't. How do you feel?

Yeah, they said will he ever get out of an institution? And the the chairman of the Lincoln County Mental Health Board said, I didn't anticipate anything like this. This isn't the ordinary case. We have a lot we have not had a case of this nature. So we will have to study the process again there. Just whatever an ordinary case, we determine if someone is mentally ill, a dangerous person, and then we determine if he is, then he's committed.

He said with this, though, this guy could see him saying, but what if he snaps and kills all family? Again, it's a different story. He didn't just go and, you know, like jump out in front of a car, bang his head against the wall. He was doing fine. I mean, little little brushes with the law and stuff. And then all of a sudden the whole family's dead. Yeah. Who knows what this fucking guy's capable of?

Anything. The defense attorney said that it's the biggest relief of my life to get this case out of my office. He said, quote, It wreaked havoc on my total life, my family, my emotional well-being. There was a tremendous pressure from all sides. He was appointed, but he was a private attorney, got appointed by the judge to defend him the first time. Then he joined the public defender's office the next year and was appointed to defend him the second time by the office.

He's like, fuck, I could get away from this shit. He literally said in this, if I knew there'd be a second trial, I wouldn't have taken the job with the public defender's office. I would have had there had been a chance I would have taken it. The juror, Douglas Scott Lee, who was the psychological guy's guy, he has to move. He said he said, yeah, he had to move his family out of Hickman, Nebraska, and was buying a gun because of threatening phone calls and people bothering him.

He said the calls start coming in on Thursday. And I was worried about the safety of my family. I'm sick and tired about it. He is the managing voice, managing editor of the voice of Southern Lancaster County newspaper.

And yeah, so people have a master's and you think you're smarter than everybody. Come in here and ruin a closed case. Goddamn jury heard what he heard.

Everyone else agreed. So changes the governor of Nebraska at that time said that he thinks there's merit to change Nebraska's law to allow a guilty but mentally ill verdict. So that way, when they got out of an institution, then they could be put in a prison rather than on the street. There's no in between at that point. So this is like, oh, now you're saying enough for prison. That's that would be that type of thing. That's what they want done.

That's what they want done. They may look at you. So nineteen eighty nine comes around.

Where's the the problem with that law is that there's no merit in getting better. Know what I mean. Congratulations. Now step over here.

Yeah. It's, I mean might as well just stay crazy. Yeah. It's better, better for you.

So nineteen eighty nine. He wants, he wants supervised visits, he wants treatment outside of the center for alcoholism and for mental issues and shit like that. So the judge says no for now but they're going to consider it for next year. Nineteen ninety. He wants more supervised visits and they end up doing it. They let him go for supervised visits to doctors and shit. Not like to the Chucky Cheese or anything, just to the doctor. So the one psychiatrist they say about him, quote, Dr.

Anderson said he's going to do it again. If he gets out, he'll isolate himself, he'll drink again and he'll do it again. It's very scary what's going to happen if they ever let him out of jail, out of the what is it out of the hospital? I had heard a lot of rumors that he was going to be turned loose this year. And then he says, Simmons says, quote, I feel that I deserve a chance.

I've changed. I don't feel that I'm any danger because I've changed and I care. My you have to know as a person what I did is not going to be accepted ever.

So 2003, he is allowed supervised time away from the center. So that ends up happening. Thousand four, he's still in there, still not letting out. Two thousand five. He is formally, formally diagnosed by Dr. Jack Anderson with schizophrenia, pedophilia and necrophilia. OK, those are three very, very it's a that's a bad cocktail.

That, my friend, is is a hat trick. That's a hat trick that schizophrenia, pedophilia and necrophilia. Wow. That's wild.

That's the trifecta of stay the fuck out of society. That's yeah. The doctor said that he will always suffer from these disorders. And yeah, he at the time now he's fifty nine years old. Then they said he's been an exemplary prisoner, doesn't bother anybody, which he never did on the outside. Besides butchering a family, he was fine, he never bothered anybody, you know, and he did he did it at 30. He's almost to the second 30.

Yeah, one doctor said in the to let him out for supervised visits. This was the judge I'm sorry, said, quote, So long as he keeps away from alcohol and non prescribed controlled substances, his mental illness will in all probability, remain in remission and his dangerousness to the community will be minimized.

I don't want minimize he he killed children remission badly. I want it fixed.

Yeah. They said that if he does get out, he would most likely seek seclusion, start drinking again and the delusions and fantasies would return. DR1 One judge said there would be a very high risk of the defendant again being involved in a violent sexual activity. Yes, I would agree. So 2013, he's still trying to get out. One judge said the court's not inclined to gamble with the safety of the public, particularly as it relates to young girls and older women who would be defenseless targets if he were to violently reoffend.

Right. Very fair. Exactly. That's perfect. Twenty seventeen. He is still ruled mentally ill by a judge, 12, 19 comes up. Yeah, they say he's up there. He wants out a psychiatrist that says he's all better, but he hasn't shown a fucking sign of craziness in 30 years. He's doing fine. And a judge says, no, I don't think so. Yeah, I'm going to keep you in there. That's two thousand nineteen in October.

So he is up this month. Yeah, this is going on again. Who knows? They said that he's dangerous. 2019, Nebraska, the what is it? The University of Nebraska at Kearney. Their journalism department holds a big event to celebrate the landmark decision of the Supreme Court, saying that you can't have a gag order for journalists because they were one of the people it sued. So they have a big party about that. There was a petition for a while on, quote, the petition site, Dotcom.

That's not stupid.

Yeah, they are trying to get a thousand people.

They only got ten supporters and it's to keep him in jail. But it's also I was like, oh, that's a good thing.

But it's also because they want to make a documentary. So like I don't do that and says now, 40 years later, he's been declared cured by psychiatrists and they're calling it an alcohol infused psychosis, blah, blah, blah. He is a threat to my kids and grandkids as well as your kids and our grandkids as well as all adults. Very good writing. Please pass this posting to your friends, family and business associates. I really need your help to get sponsors and advocates to help me make this film.

Thank you very much that everybody.

Thank you exactly. Oh, that is Sutherland, Nebraska. He's you can't tell me that you can't shake a stick at that shit. That was absolutely one of the craziest fucking stories we've ever done.

Wow. Is Donald's face cowboy.

I'm telling you. Well, if you like that story or if you just appreciate our telling of it for a better way to put it, please get on Apple podcast. Give us five stars. They really do help a lot. They help drive us up the charts. So thank you for doing that. Head over to shut up and give me murder. Dotcom for everything, crime and sports and small town murder related. Also listen to I hate this movie as well or make fun of bad romantic comedies.

You want to go to the website though. Shut up and give me Murder Dotcom right now because you want to get your tickets to the virtual live show October the twenty ninth. It's a Thursday and also it'll be available for forty eight hours. After that you can listen and it will be air you can watch. Sorry, it will be the all violent felon edition of the Prisoner Dating Game where four lucky Bachelorette's and four lucky bachelors get lined up before Jimmy.

All of them are in prison for terrible crimes and make sure they do it. And then I read, Jimmy, the descriptions that these people put up.

You know, this is this is their this is their their bait.

They're selling their shackle. Yup.

And we will show you the pictures. But Jimmy will not be able to see these people until he picks one of each one lucky bachelor, one lucky bachelorette. And then we will show him the pictures. And more importantly, we will tell everybody what everybody did to belong on this show. So much fun. Shut up and give me murder. Dotcom, right now, I'm telling you, it's a riot. That show is crazy. So please check it out, especially when you find out what they did after you hear that guy.

Sounds really nice. They really, James, they have more confidence than anybody on the dating site. They have to they have to have game in there. Yeah. And these guys on fucking Tinder got jobs. And that's why they don't have to be as they don't have to be as floury because they have a goddamn job in a car and a fucking you know, they are like free. Right. That's the difference in there. You really got to draw someone in like a spider to the web, you know?

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Yeah, based on one of their beliefs that she was Jack the Ripper, his mother in a former life.

Right. And one of them also wants to resurrect Hitler for some reason as well.

I get it anyway. They I don't anyway. He doesn't he doesn't mean he gets wanting to resurrect that. By the way, ladies and gentlemen, my co host, Andrew Jackson or or Hitler, like my co-host Himmler goes Heinrich Himmler.

So anyway, yeah, it's where the hell was, I don't know, Patreon. So, yeah, it's so much fun.

The episodes are crazy. We did team songs on crime and sports. Others like Hulk Hogan singing, Lenny Dykstra rapping, Orel Hershiser rapping.

You learn that they've got one talent. Yeah. And it's nice music. So do all of that.

Check all that out. New episodes out next week. All of that can be had at Patreon Dotcom Crime and Sports. Anybody over the five dollar level has access to all that beautiful, beautiful stuff. And if you just want Jimi to mispronounce your name and get some good karma for yourself, you can do that by making a donation over at PayPal using our email address, crime and sports at Gmail dot com. That said, Jimmy, after all that horrible story, I need I need to hear about some good people who would never do any of the things that just happen right now.

Instead, they're so nice, they support us and make us be able to make a living doing a podcast. So Jimmy hit me with the names of those wonderful people. Right now. This week's executive producers are Shelly Farrell's Ellie CAMAC Cammack.

She's in Texas. She's terrific. Kristin Anderson, Lisa Neuberger Ali, Shirley, Gwen Steel, Leif Steinmetz, Lizzie Wolf, Ashley Boin. Bah bah bah bah bah bah. Nicole Belayer.

Jesse Plotkin. Carol Braun is back. Thank you, Carol. Thank you. Amanda Berry, thank you very much. She just quit her job and donated. What has she don't? It was like it was. Oh, her left over PTL. She donated those. Thank you so much. Sweet. Thank you. Amanda, Joanna, Joanna A'Hearn, Alex Atch, Chrissy, Christian, Castaldi obviously team and Warner and Jordan Bennett. Thank you guys so much.

Those are some of our friends truly. Thank you. And and in those was a bunch of words about about how they wanted to help, how sick I was. And now all you guys are sweet, truly from the bottom. Thank you, guys. Thanks for thinking of us, Taylor. Other producers this week are Taylor Half Penny, Sara Dugan or Dugin. Amanda free tag Rowin would no last name Dale Lewis. Ghalia, what does that got?

Oh, boy. Tornado Jesus. I think it might be Galla. All right. I do really terribly with writing. Jack Tougher. Chris Caton or Katan. Amanda with no last name, Michael Von Thomashefsky. Chris would no last names. Sarah Chai or Chai. Caitlin Franklin. Vivian Gawronski. Dan what. Big Daddy. Yeah.

Voegtlin and what the Italian. Ashley Exactly. Ashley Murli Warth Joe would no last name Britney Poxon Shy or she Miller. I think it's shy. Allison knew Newbold. Yes, Megan would know last name. Kyle Williams. Debre would no last name. Dana read. Kevin Shrader, Amy Sprinkel. Alex sends a and Zabar. Heather Heilbut. It's like a wine right now that sounds. I don't know what that name. Madeline Greenfield. Jason Covert. Sam Sure.

Sure.

Bubble Sprite Kyle Warez Ruban Tirado Jess Anderson, Danny Richardson own his own Olwyn Olwyn Searls. Ali would no last name might be Ali Ali. Olivia Crutcher, Monica Dossey Dossey, Mike Ushi, Taj Aleece Alesi. What is I don't know if Jay or an ass. Oh yeah this is that an surgey. What is it. Because they could be different. Could be the same. Wow. You don't know. That's how bad it is.

Just Joseline, Jocelyn Adams, Konner Smith, Victoria Lauren, Ralph Haas or has Michelle Warrener with Sarah, Rachel Racheal, Matt Scarbro, Kathryn Ziegler, Amanda Tige, Tiggy Ty maybe Chris Launer.

Taylor Swanson. Jenna Bradley. Julia Schuster's. Sean. Oh what did I do Furi. Kristy Hilton, Lindsay Filles Files, Jared What a McKlusky, Sean Sinclair, Daniel Trepp, Wendy Gonzalez, Valerie Valerie Young Yangon's Kevin Bartlett, Carla L Beth Shaoqi, Melissa McCutchen. Jerome Becker, Lauren Bradford. Cameron Cleary. Chris Adams, Nicole Chris Adams. Like the gentlemen. Yes, like gentlemen, Chris and Nicole with no last name call Melen MacKenna Matel Talin.

What is this. Elsworth, Sean Turner, Joe Faden Fadin, Sean Delora Hayle or Halie Goddammit Katherine Ossorio, Sarah Radclyffe Vesi or Vassall. What the fuck. Santa Radclyffe. Nope, that's Hannah Montana.

Yeah, it's probably Hannah Montana more than likely. Kelsey V Karley or Santa sitting out there and thanks a lot.

Yes. I don't accept Khaliq Dragovic.

No, I think Vicky Sorano. Joe Gulabo galloper. What does that James Italian.

Yeah, fucking wrong is Jennifer Taylor. Olivia McQueen, Richard Berman. Probably Boomer's brother, Jesse Handke. Steve James, Zane Brown, Glenda Epiphanic, April Wittner. James is the Steve James, the director of Stephy from Orsa and April Wittner Cecilia. Nope, that's Celia Bohlen, Christina Christina Durant, Nikola Mastrantonio, Macy Skol Skol.

It's Italian.

Goddammit, salute them scaloppini and get it over with.

You know you're on to I'm sorry, Maizie Annie Blandy Shey Perent. Stephanie Akers. It's a fucking mess.

James Warner, Mike Carpenter, Martin Colbert, Corbitt Corbey Corbetts. Nicole Querrey O'Clery. God damn it.

Michael McComb's. Mike McComb's flagellar Lee Roth. That's easy because it's not real. Yeah. Cheryl Gerling Gola you valorise separate God it Joanne Joanne and Johanna Mullein. Izia McAlexander Caressa Craft Christopher Brown Chris Kei's Brandy Lee Kansi Brown. Selena Guerra, Christy Christy Stutts Jeriko Von Brugger The Jezebel five, six, seven. See how hard the shit is. Phil SNOGGED Snodgrass Snodgrass. Anna Janki I think Gozi. Kimie Parke's. Greg Hill. Chad Pursey Piercey Ryan Swift Hanabi Mitchell Baros Janice Mismatch Melchiorre Goddammit Susann Wagers.

Katie Fahy, Travis Bender. Jennifer Johnson, Mark Schaefer. Joshua MacNamee J. Henry Tiffany Urlich. Ellie Gonzalez. Stephanie Phelps I think. Yep. Alexis TOTUS totus Chris would no last name. Adrie Ingersol. David Vinyard. Vinyard. Yep. Mr what is this. Rinn two one three Sir. Mehndi Swygert Lurky McCluer Kasson Leverkusen. All right. Sosha Saunderson Saunders' Goddamnit Lesli Vallario Rangers' jt Jamie kec ta ta ta ta bu Tituba Patrick Murphy D.J. Amanda Kessner Kaitlynn would no last name Iraq Trymaine Lezley Jenny would no last name Adam Beeton.

Stephanie would no last name Joel with no last name. Danielle Sheeter llona Ioana Ionising ohlin Olan Miller. Justin Hoffman Sametz. And what is this a.. Hello Payneham. No it's never happening. Shaun Korban. Adle Hansen. Šamaš Ratcliffe. Chuck Brooks. Jane Parke's, Michelle Shumpert, Ness Simms, Lindsay Keyla, Jerilyn Munsen, Boris Kurban and Lauren Brennan. Can Kent slip a new ski goddammit elain frou frou Titta Lucida, Eric, Eric Shiller, Shibam, Blocher, Taylor Collins and Meghan Asbill.

John Àngel Justin Maye Samantha Lippard Libet Brorby Luna Grace. Anne Bancroft. Matt Smith. Alfred Hitchcock. Dana Scott. Because Cock is fucking the dirty word. Catherine from Dana Kasar, Meghan Cox, Kerry. But there's the Cox. Kerry Baker. Carolyn Dunn. Lori Scarpa. Because it's Italian of course. Same Samwise again. Lori Thomas Alanah Krannert Criner Modano Dennis Avalon's Chris. And his wife, it's their anniversary, Sarah. Happy anniversary. Well, Meghan Lynch shouting What?

That can't be right. Gerald L.. That's an end up. So Steve Schnell, Steve, Matthew and Adorno because it's Italian. Jason Ammerman. God damn it. Caitlin Stupak. Judd, Jude Kendel. Elizabeth Bercow. Dick Menge. Brendan Abels. Dakota Harington. Ashley VO. Susanna Platt is Cavenagh. Janice Craft. Kacie Shatters Happy Birthday, Adam Graham. And also it was Susan ologists birthday and nobody told Happy Birthday, but happy birthday anyway.

You're terrific. Gerald and Matthew O'Dorney said that Thomas Smith, Jill Calhoun, Michael Calhoun, also John DeLong, Peyton Meadows. Julia Usher. What Usher. Murray Heath Mauger. Amanda Knight, Charles Stump. Matt James Marter. Of course, Burton Heise has health. What is that? I think it's an eye. Linda Timer, Lindsay Trotter. Happy birthday to Sarah Flummery. What? That's not right. Sarah Flummery. Yeah, and that's like a good one.

And Kathy Jackson, those are from Susan. What the fuck? Susan's birthday. Hey, how many people. Happy birthday, Mary Arculus. Unbelievable. Julia McColley and Rita next. I don't know what that is. I wrote that down. It's something Tatiana said to Nova Titta Nova Burrough's How are I don't know, her names got hit and that's going to ruin everything.

I distractible. I feel like Richard, Hope Richard and Hope Rydalmere. It's their anniversary. Sebastian Martin Kyle Warez. What is this. Maureen Jones, Zachary Tepfer, Steven Stadler, Crystal Walker, John and Mary Catherine Buc Katarzyna need zolta. They found out the eye is pronounced like Frank Crowley, Aaron Baker and Janice Hill and of course, all of our patron donors. You guys are amazing.

Thank you. Thank you, everybody so much. Honestly, from the bottom of our hearts, man, you guys, just everything you've done for us, everybody, every dime you give us, every ritzier, every bleicher, every time you tell a friend, it really, really fucking helps. I know it seems like insignificant to tell your friend or to donate a dollar or whatever the hell you want to do. But it's not us. And we it means the world to us that you would just that you would take your time to do that.

So thank you so much for that. I want it this way. It's crazy. It's it's crazy and amazing. And we love it. And we wouldn't have it any other way. Jimmy, what about you? What if they want to get a hold of you?

How you can find me at Westminster socks and socks, as RJ Davis did.

It's his twin brother, Roy's birthday. Hey, happy birthday. He's not with us, but his birthday. So happy birthday to him, to the twins. Thank you.

Also, Thomas and his sister, Chris Smith. Chris is a nurse and she's caring for terminal patients. She's a fucking hero. So thank you so much. Also, Aaron gets you guys. We can't do this without you guys. Absolutely. Thank you. Truly, from the bottom of my heart, it's it's super fucking warming to is that you guys are there and doing this for us. So thanks. We're going to find you.

I Jimmy P is funny. You know, I just copy and paste my name. You'll find me out there. Jesus Christ. We were around. Yeah. James from small town murder. You'll find me. Don't worry. It's not like I'm hiding. Yeah. So with that said, everybody, thank you so much. Hope you enjoy it and hope you've cleansed yourself. Maybe wash your mouth out with soap and take a shower and feel a little bit better.

Stay off the home page and come back next week because. Holy shit, do we have a wild Halloween episode for you? It is a crazy, spooky carnival of great literally from a carnival. Crazy shit. With that said, everybody, thank you so much. Honestly, I can say it all the time, but thank you so much. And until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure.

And.