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Our Toyota, we set our sights on creating a car that looks good, feels good, but does even more good when that feels even more exciting, even more energetic, even more electric without ever needing to be plugged in. Challenge accepted. The all new self charging hybrid electric Yaris contact your dealer today about flexible payment options and see just how affordable the new Yaris is.

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Toyota built for a better world. This week in Lafayette, Indiana, a very unstable person has some interesting and scary delusions leading to a barbaric murder and even more deranged explanation. Welcome to small town murder.

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Hello, everybody, and welcome back to small town murder. Yeah, indeed, Jimmy. Yeah, indeed. My name is James Petraglia. I'm here with my co-host, Jimmy Wassmann. Thank you, folks, so much for joining us once again, everybody. We are excited.

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Halloween, this is our special Halloween Wheelhouse episode. So we go for the most kind of a supernaturally crazy kind of thing here.

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And I really supernaturally but crazy enough where it's almost when crazy gets to a certain level, it becomes almost supernatural in their beliefs.

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So it'll all make sense when you hear the story. Absolutely. One of our knottiest makes pocket Robin look like your town's alderman. Basically, we'll put it that way. But before we get to that, thank everybody for everything they've done this week for us. We really appreciate it. If you haven't done it yet, please get on a Bible podcast, that purple icon, whatever the hell that is, and give us five stars. It really does help out a lot those reviews.

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Why? We have no idea such a thing helps drive you up the charts. That's how they've set it up. We don't know. So thank you for everyone that's done it. And if you haven't yet, please, please give that a shot. Head over to shut up and give me murder. Dotcom, as a matter of fact, if you're listening today, the day if this comes out or even the the Friday or the Saturday, you can check it out.

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The virtual live show. Very exciting. And get your tickets right now. We're coming right to your living room. We're going to be all up in your business. So you think tonight it is the all violent felon edition of the prisoner dating game. Holy shit. Is it going to be amazing? Because I have some insane people laid out for you, Jimmy, in a couple of curveballs, of course. Oh, great line, Jimmy. Up with four lucky bachelors for Lucky Bachelor Bachelorette's.

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The only thing they all have in common is they are all incarcerated for a horrible, violent felony and they have put their dating profiles out there. He chooses one of the four of each and then he gets to find out what they look like, see their pictures, and then also what they've done to earn their position in life at this moment. So balls, man. Oh, it's going to be so much fun. Check that out. Shut up and give me murder.

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Dotcom, October the 29th and for 48 hours afterwards, you can also get it. Do that right now. Also Patreon this week is Hoppen as well. Yeah. Over on the Crime and sports one which you'll have access to. You can access to everything with a Patriot donation. So that is the plane ride from hell. It's got the word hell in it. So it's Halloween, I figured. But it's not scary for somebody. It's scary for a lot of people.

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It was wrestlers coming from a European flight, a chartered flight full of WWE wrestlers coming from Europe with a full and open bar and flight attendants. And and the hours to do with fighting each of the lawsuits stemmed from it. It's a crazy thing. It makes the boat ride for the Vikings look very tame. So that'll be crime.

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And it was only a two hour boat ride back. Yeah, this is, what, a twelve hours, eight hour, very drunk. It's a long time.

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Very drunk. Not only that, for the small town murder bonus episode this week, we are going to look at because it's Halloween, it's going to come out on Halloween. We are going to look at the kind of spookiest and most haunted est small towns we have. Some of these small towns make their whole reputation on. Come to this town. It's we got haunted shit. So we're going to do kind of the top, most haunted towns.

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You can get haunted. He I just. That's a word SNU Now that's that's drawer's there. It's the haunted house tension. Well there you go. And you're fucking it's a goddamn word that in your book. Enjoy that one. So that's going to be a lot of fun. There's just some crazy shit and some wild stories of, you know, murder. And sure. That that caused the violence.

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I mean, that's a requirement almost for the first time. There you go. Yeah, it's not usually something that happened. So you can get all that patriot on dotcom slash crime and sports and anybody above the five dollar level. And you get a shout out to at the end of the show, Dremiel mispronounce your name horribly. If it's Italian, he'll really mispronounce it bad. And if you just want to have good karma and get a shout out as well, you can do that on our own.

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PayPal using our email address, crime and sports at Gmail dot com. Quick disclaimer. It's a comedy show. It's a comedy show. The stories are completely real. Nothing is made up for comic effect, but there's going to be jokes made sure there is not at a murder like while it's happening or anything like that.

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But around it, there's a lot of crazy shit happening aplenty. It's murder. That's a crazy thing to do. Think about it. That's why there's stuff to make fun of. And we're going to do that. But we don't do is we don't make fun of the victims or the victims families because we're assholes. We're not scumbags. You have it. That's how it works. So if that sounds good, awesome. If not, we warn you, I don't know, give it a shot if you want.

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If not, I'll complain later. If you didn't like its activity, which I don't know what to tell you, you know what I mean? But for the rest of everybody, let's hang out, let's have a good time and let's clear the lungs and shout, shut up and give me my water.

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Let's do this, Jimmy. Hey, let's go on a trip.

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Let's do it, shall we? Let's go. Yeah, we are going to Indiana. This boy back in Indiana last I think Christmas Eve was the last time we were in Indiana. That's all right. Last year, yes, it's the end, our holiday thing for Christmas, for Halloween. Oh, you know what? I'm thinking of a difference now. It's been since was the last Indiana. Oh, really? This is Lafayette, Indiana. And I know people are going to say because whenever this happens, that's not a small town.

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It's not a small town. Yes, I know. Population wise, it might not be a small town, but it actually is because it's a college town. And when this happened, it was even in the parameters of what we do anyway. So I don't want to hear it's not a small town. When it happened, it was I know what I'm doing. That's what Lafayette, the college that it's nuts where Purdue is. Oh, Purdue is.

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Where the hell is Lafayette? No idea. And Louisiana, I have no clue. There's a lot of Lafayette. So this is Lafayette, Indiana. It's west central Indiana and a little north. So it's about an hour to Indianapolis. Two hours to Chicago. Oh, that's interesting. It's in the middle of. Why would you get to things? Why would you be there? I mean, just go a little farther. There's better places and about two hours and 45 minutes to Vincennes, which was our last episode, which was last Christmas Eve of twenty eighteen.

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We stop with that one. That's right. And this is in Tippecanoe County. Oh, like that's a real word. Tippecanoe County.

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What the fuck are you doing over there, guys? What's happening in Indiana is Tippecanoe and it's seven six I'm sure it's some ancient native word and I'm an asshole now. I'm sorry if that's a fact. If it was just American people thinking it was a funny sounding word, that's dumb. But if it's something like it's got them massol, I apologize. So it's area code seven, six, five.

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It's twenty nine square miles. It's a big place. Like I said, it's a big college on it and things like that. The motto is the Star City.

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Oh yeah. No, that's L.A., the Star City.

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Well, Cincinnati called themselves the Queen City and they called themselves the Star City to be better or as it's known, the rest of the world, quote that place where Purdue is.

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Yeah, that's the Cincinnati, really the Queensland. It's what they call themselves in the eighteen hundreds. Why doesn't Charlotte call themselves the Queen City? So does Manchester, New Hampshire. Enough stop. There's the queen does not favor any of you. All right. That's what I do for Charlotte because Charlotte is the one they went to that because I was named after the fire and yeah, we were at that comedy festival last year. Right. We. Yes.

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Yeah, that's right.

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That was the point. They're named after Queen Charlotte. That's their Queen City. Yeah. What Queen Cincinnati is. You don't know about Queen Cincinnati. She sounds hideous. Queen Cincinnati was she was a very she ruled with an iron fist queen. Cincinnati.

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So spagetti Brown. Yeah. You know how it goes.

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So the history, by the way, in the prisoner dating game, one of the prisoners. I was so mad because her story wasn't that great, but her name was basically Ninja Pineapple's. Get out with a couple other words. And I'm like Ninja Pineapple's. I want Ninja Pineapple's to be in this episode. But it just didn't work out anyway. History of this town. European explorers when they arrived here exploring the Midwest, I guess it's not much of an exploration now that way across the flat field.

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There it is. But what are you exploring? Let's get the fuck out of here.

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Yeah, the tribe of the Miami Indians were there at the time. And in seventeen seventeen, the French government established a fort there across the Wabash River. And then the fort became the center of trade for trappers and merchants and Indians. Everybody kind of got along, wasn't fighting or anything. Everybody was trading with each other. Was more like a big trading post and an annual reenactment of this time period of the trading between everybody in the French and the Indians.

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And Everything is a festival known as the Feast of the Hunters Moon. That's kind of cool. Which sounds. Yeah, that sounds like the feast.

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The Hunters Moon sounds like every like at sundown people are going to emerge from the woods, carcasses over their shoulders, draped in blood. And they're going to be like, here's our kill. We got it now. And yeah. And then there's going to be like a bison on a spit, you know what I mean? And we're all going to chant and drink from goblet. Sounds awesome. Drink drink from Stanley Cup some shit after around the fire slayer playing we shall drink the blood of the vanquished from the Stanley Cup around the fire.

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For it is the feast of the Hunter's Moon. That's that's what it sounds awesome.

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It's held there every year in fur clothing. Yeah. Oh absolutely. Shit over the shoulder top. Yeah. Dress like the barbarian and wait. You know what I mean. Like coming out with like just like a fur thing over the lily. Half a fur top from nineteen ninety two leather flap over your balls.

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Oh you got to have that. You got to have a leather ball. God damn thing. What if something flies in and we're want to have a little resistance to cock them.

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Yeah. We go wipe myself. I'm a Catholic so the town of Lafayette was made in about eighteen twenty five.

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They plotted it up and William Digby was the guy who did that for whatever that's worth. Anyway, it's the Sahara Desert Fart Fact of the week. William Digby. William Dick. Splatted Lafayette in eighteen twenty five, so it was designated that the county seat of Tippecanoe County and Lafayette was named for General Lafayette, who was a French officer who helped George Washington and the Army in the revolution a lot. So that's why there's a lot of things named Lafayette in America, George Washington's right hand man.

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No, no. He was a French guy who's a French general, but he always actually working in accordance with Americans. Yeah, because they hate the fucking British. The French and British hate each other to this day. And they wasn't any different two hundred fifty years ago, let's put it that way.

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Unbelievable. Yeah, that'll never change. French and British will always hate each other. You know what that's about. But I don't know. It's too close.

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That's a lie. It's there right next to each other. And it's a completely different everything, you know what I mean? It would be like if in New York, in New Jersey, they spoke completely different languages and there's a river between you. But beside that, we're completely different people. It's, you know, yeah, it's very different. One of us will get hairy and fuck in the street and the other ones will be very buttoned up and just a river.

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Yeah, that's about that. The debauchery and then the the not the stiffness. It's one river fucking water and deserts and fucking over here. And there's no wild fucking cardigan over there.

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Plumm Yeah. Things, things are made out of fig. Right. Everything is fake over there. Enough with the fake. Sorry but they, I love how much lamb they eat over it. I love lamb.

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I eat a lot of very confused by the food. Some of it's gotten good now for a long time. It was just awful boiled jet. But now they've gotten a little, they've gotten better. I watched the the, the night they started getting good chefs and then Gordon Ramsay helped that a lot just in terms of fame and the rest of the world. And Mark, appear white before that, he was like big in England. He was in France.

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And never mind, I watched him put a fish in too much things, though, you know? Yeah. There's a lot of different Hastey. It's a love a quail egg. Yeah. Those are good, though. Yeah. That's like a pot pie without a bottom. Weirdly, that's fine. I can eat that fish. They don't want to. I don't want fish in a row in a in a shell. I don't fish in anything. I want a piece of fish.

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Eat it. You know what I kind of have either read it or just leave it the fuck alone, sear it up and put it like fucking rice.

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I don't know what that I think that's uncouth. That's Vianna here. That feels like a keep it good thing, right? You're not even allowed, I'm sure. No, no. I mean, I feel like they put it in the pot, putting it in a pie like makes it hold longer.

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Oh gosh. During war times and things like that. I need it in two days.

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Yeah. It's like yeah we have a lot of food like that's why people the Midwest is like fucking casseroles is you going to throw it in there and then eat it again. Put the plastic on top of it. Yeah. It's, I feel like that's kind of the point of that is you can just always in the middle of the night that fish, you can grab your throat and your lunch box, you know, fucking breaded chunk of fish go down to the smoke factory like an early London was just a factory or smoke for it.

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I it just made smoke. That's all they do. You just shovel coal into a fire. That's your chef. Just make coal or smoke. It's for the it's for the ambience making it smoky. The Ripper can do this thing. See the pictures are going to be amazing. It's going to be it's going to be so much better creepy, you know.

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So. All right. Is where the hell am I here? So a guy named Elsworth here, Henry Levit, Elsworth Elsworth. This reminds me of the guy from Deadwood that married in Deadwood.

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So he purchased ninety three thousand acres of land and so much, published a booklet titled Valley of the Upper Wabash, Indiana, with hints on its agricultural advantages, is basically what they used to do. And like when they when they started making developments in Florida, they'd send pamphlets to the Northeast, like, come down here. Look how great it is.

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That's what this was. There's nothing here yet. But give us time. This was come here and look at this fertile farmland. Don't you want to just come here and be a farmer? You want to leave the other life behind. That's they were advertising. So, no, I don't know. I saw the booklet. I had a picture of it.

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I'll post it till the land and be reliant on the weather. It's that's the problem. That's horrible. You can't control that. Never.

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No matter how hard you work, you can't make rain happen or stop snow or snow or temperature or a plague of bugs. Right.

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There's a lot of things you really can't control, especially in the eighteen variables in that. Yeah. So Lafayette was the first site of the first official air mail delivery in the United States on August 17th, 1859. Really, they wouldn't think that, but a guy named John Wise piloted a balloon. So it was a balloon starting on the Lafayette courthouse grounds and made an air drop. So he just basically floated a balloon and through somebody's mail down so they could say they were the first to decide how email works.

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You just throw it out. No, OK, that's not how it works at all. I'm sure he landed and then did the locked up technically. Still, it's an error thing, but yeah, I don't think now they just drop the planes above the addresses and the. I can by plane, Harry, go, I'll never make it past the street. We're about to make another run on half the street, going to make another pass. I got this guy's electric bill.

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He's got this. It's going to be something that's going to be super mad about that if they should have his lights up.

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So this guy hoped to reach New York, but the weather conditions forced the balloon down near Crawfordsville, Indiana, not quite to New York, didn't even make it out of the state. And the mail reached its final destination by train. But that's still technically the first launch. In 1959, the U.S. Postal Service issued a seven cent airmail stamp commemorating the centennial of the event. Oh, boy. There's a stamp commemorating this town's commemoration balloon ride, failed balloon ride.

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So have reviews of this town. They are little funny. All right. Let's get into the first one here. This guy is very all this is like he thought it was Yelp. He fucked up him. He put it in the wrong place. This is a three star review. Its average quote. There are several ethnic restaurants such as Mongolian, Chinese, Greek and authentic Italian. There are also the normal fast food restaurants and chain restaurants. The specialty in quotes, restaurants are awesome, offering authentic food and drink.

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The fast food restaurants offer the typical menus offered by them. The chain restaurants such as Bob Evans and Richard's offer, quote, down home cooking. The local flavors offer small menus, but they do them well. That's it, just all about food, there's nothing about the town in here, just he just gave a restaurant rundown in case you were stopping by Vincent or Lafayette or the review that 2015.

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All right. Just some restaurants.

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It's not Diners, Drive-Ins, and that's all I've got to do this. Yeah, this is what I do now. I'm just going to review food. This one is good, too. Normally, it's not too bad an area except except during the summer. During this time, there's an hour before the summer. There's an increase in traffic and rude people. I wouldn't choose to live in this particular area again because down the road is a trailer park with a large amount of pedophiles and child molesters.

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And I would not want my children to grow up in the area.

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Well, then, is that is that presumptuous or did they do research? I mean, I, I think they just look down there.

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Is that like where they put them all? Is that the neighborhood that's like outside the zone of school zones, like the one geographical place or do they just like look at all those fucking pedophile look at them mustaches in vans.

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They've got to be every one of them. Why else would they choose to be over there?

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Dirty, just dirty. And the population of this town, like we said, it's technically bigger. But when this happened, it was about forty thousand people in this town total currently there when the murder happened. We're going to talk about currently there are seventy two thousand one hundred seventy four people wouldn't have that, which is up sixty five percent since nineteen ninety. Her do so what. Yeah, Pardoo. The story takes place in nineteen eighty two so it's lower.

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But the 2010 census said the year round residency not counting students. The students make up for more than half the residents in the year round. The actual full time residents are twenty nine thousand five ninety six, which is a small town. So in more ways than one, it's a small town. I don't hear any arguments about it. There you go.

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So male female population is normal. It's about fifty one percent. Female median age is low because Purdue is here. So you're going to get a lot. Everybody's, you know, in their twenties and eighteen. Nineteen years old, median age of thirty two point four. Yeah. So pretty low married population is lower also it's only forty two percent. This is all you know, makes sense with a college town basically. Twenty six, twenty three percent are single with children.

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So there's kind of more of those kind of people. It's lower marry because they're in college and this is in Utah. You know, that's how that works.

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Race of this town, about seventy six percent white, about eight and a half percent black, one point six percent Asian, only one point six percent Asian. The fucking techology running over there. That's the weirdest thing I've ever heard. How do you have a huge university?

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And I only have one point six percent Asian population that feels like I mean, get a lot if I'm being stereotypical, but there's a lot of Asian kids and. Yeah. In college. Yeah. I mean, we have I only say that because we have ASU here and if you go near ASU, there's a shitload of Asian kids like there's a lot of them, you know, like, oh yeah, that's where they're going. So I don't know, it's weird.

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And they have a really big. What is that like that feels on purpose. Yeah, it's on purpose. Usually there should be a lawsuit involved, like there's like yeah I applied there and. Yeah. And I can't get in. Why is that on this. Welcome to Lafayette. Not you Changgeng. The fuck is out of here. What's gonna happen in here.

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Back very strange. Twelve point two percent Hispanic. It is thirty three percent religious because they're a little bit younger so they haven't quite needed to meet, they haven't needed anything for help yet. So that's good, good for them. And it's a, it's a good mixture of a bunch of everything. It's No nobody, not a real dominant religion here, some Methodist, some Lutheran, some Catholics point three percent Jewish point two percent Islam. So no Hava Nagila, no politics.

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We're going to talk about, especially this week that I'm going to get into that. So right around the corner. Yeah, let's have fun instead and not worry about this is a break from that. That's the point. This is a hey, look at the looking over here. Want to hear something crazier than what happens here?

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This is what we're going to talk about. We'll make this shit.

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You'll go, oh, boy, this thing's are same revealing, capable of voting and processing that information. We got you covered. It's fine.

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We'll make that really is a so the unemployment rate here is low. It's about three percent. So that's that. Yeah, that was before. This is the beginning of this year before the world caught on fire. So median household income, about forty four thousand dollars a year. Normally it's about fifty seven and a half thousand. The rest of the country. But you got to figure this college kids kind of bringing that down with some a lot of minimum wage, part time work and shit like that.

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It's double the manufacturing jobs is normal here. So that's an odd thing. A lot of that in the Midwest, you comes out there, I don't know, but it comes and goes that kind of shit. And more educational jobs, too, because there's a huge university that might be making the Snuggies right now. They could be doing anything. Yeah. Or Swiffer, either one.

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Anything, any cute named product that starts with an S something something and the as seen on TV, you know, something like that next to the magic. All right. So overall, I saw we were God, where the hell where we said it was before all this shit started, we were in a mall and they had this cardboard cutout of that guy just like holding the little guy. And he's, like, sticking out in the hallway, just wanted a clothesline.

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And just because he was, like, smiling at me with his pillow and I'm just like, I don't want your pillow. I don't know I don't know anything about the guy except he's got a pillow and he's going he's like blocking my way as I'm trying to walk by. That's kind of my way.

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Pillow man. You know why it made me so angry? He could have been literally anybody out there could have been just like Mother Teresa cardboard. I'm like out of my way.

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A lady, some pretty arrogant about creating a quote unquote, product that's existed for so, so long that we were all fine with. And he's like, this one is so much better than everything else you've ever used.

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How about go fuck yourself in the wheel? I want the only one, like an astronaut to give me that.

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Like I had something that has been somewhere unbelieve.

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We had to invent this in space. It was the only way that it would work. So we needed astronauts to do it. So it's clearly by now it's that would be something that would be like this is the best toilet paper ever. Really.

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Is it is it out there you. Yeah, that's that's it. Do the same job. So the cost of living in this town is about seventy eight, which is low. Seventy eight out of one hundred. And that's because the housing, the housing is actually super low here. It is a fifty nine out of a hundred and the median home cost is one hundred thirty six thousand eight hundred dollars. So pretty low. A lot of the homes are worth between sixteen one hundred fifty thousand and a lot of those in there.

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And if we've convinced you, damn it, it's time to go. We have for you the Lafayette, Indiana real estate report.

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Your average two bedroom rental here is about seven hundred and fifty dollars a month, which is below the national average by a lot. So college kids get yourselves nine roommates and move on in three bedroom, two bath house. I found fourteen hundred eighty eight square feet. It's a good family home here. Decent, nice, detached garage in the back. That's nice of in the back of the house. Yeah. Like a sitcom from home and drink a Midwestern sitcom.

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Yeah. You have a fridge out there. One hundred thirty five grand for that. Not bad. Not bad right now. Four bedroom, two bath. Twenty one hundred and forty five square feet. That's is a nice house. It's nice too. It's white with pillars. It's got four big pillars in the front that go the whole two stories. Absolutely. Very nice. One hundred and fifty nine thousand nine hundred bucks with pillars. With pillars. Nice house.

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Not bad. Then I found this house is insane. It five bedroom, five bath tee ball for everybody.

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Oh yeah that's right everybody. If you're going to vote make sure it's for tee balls for every ball which is not on the ballot.

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But that's fine. So it is six thousand five hundred seventy one square foot with Chris. Cute. Nice. It looks like three houses like welded together. That's what it looks like because it's like got different sizes and shapes. It's awesome looking five hundred sixty five thousand bucks in Phoenix. This house would be five million dollars. It's crazy. I couldn't believe it's great. It's a beautiful things to do. Should we go any farther than the Feast of the Hunter's Moon?

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Never. I think that leaving I think we need to know all about that because it sounds it sounds much more awesome than it is like it sounds like it's like the feast of the Hunter's Moon.

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There's not going to be like a boar jerky fucking. No, nothing like that would be like Motorhead playing like the anthem on the way in as people come in just like some dark shit like space. Yeah.

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It's it's hard to move to this moon. Hunter's moon just got so good going off on it. Yeah. Does that.

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No that's not happening. It's very different. It offers this is what it says here. The Feast of the Hunter's Moon offers both public and the participants a realistic portrayal of the people, cultures and lifestyles that existed on the French and English colonial frontier in the Great Lakes region during the time of Ford. Quiet, quiet Tanon, which encompassed the period from seventeen, seventeen to seventeen ninety one.

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They can really surprise the feast of the horns. I need, I need an extra bass player up. Right. I just picture like teenagers showing up like cosplay and some crazy shit with like a horn coming off like. Yeah. And they show up like the fuck of this, this shit there's like like violins and shit just like a pixie. Yeah. It's people with like tights and the wig, the douchebags running around all over the place. It's going to be a mess.

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We want to interpret this time and place as accurately as possible in order to offer the public an educational and unforgettable experience and also to honor the people who lived here. The Feast of the Hunter's Moon is a weekend festival and historical reenactment held each fall on the first weekend of October since nineteen sixty eight at the present day site of that fucking fourth that I can't pronounce. This will come up later too, because the Feast of the Hunter's Moon is attended by our people here.

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Oh boy. And. They were into that sort of shit, a replica 18th century French military and trading post, holy shit, they are blowing it. The they have such a cool name.

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It's really just a gift. It's a grey goose right there. And they're fucking their golden goose. That's fucking metal. They the Feast of the Hunters Moon. You could hire so many metal back and employee you'd get you give guys so much work. There would be every year there'd be STDs all over that place, just people being it would be amazing.

[00:27:53]

So during the festival, they reenact the annual fall gathering of the French and Native Americans, which took place in the mid 18th century. Participants dressed in the garb of 18th century French soldiers like Asshole seventeen seventeen hundred soldiers while settlers and Native Americans who lived in the region. I don't know if you have to pick out of a hat ahead of time which one you are based on, what kind of a costume you have access to. I'm not sure how this is doled out.

[00:28:18]

It seems like you're going to have a whole lot of warning on a lot of the other. I don't know who who wants to be a settler, I guess would be the easiest one to dress for. Just tattered clothes on your face. Yeah, the Native Americans. That's so much more fun. Plus you'd have all then you got an issue of you're going to hear, am I culturally appropriate? What am I looking like an asshole? French soldiers you got to have that's just too much too much garbage.

[00:28:41]

Food vendors sell traditional period foods. Oh girl. Which is we really want the foods in the seventeen hundreds because that's, you know, before they had refrigeration and knew what to do and yeah.

[00:28:53]

All MacCormick didn't exist then. No they didn't have spices from across the world and have a fucking whole grocery store aisle dedicated to it.

[00:29:01]

Well you know what they do have rabbit stew, rabbit stew voyageur still, which sounds like just whatever you picked up on the side of the road and venison sausage, which is probably good.

[00:29:11]

It's also music, marching, dancing and reenacted military maneuvers. Oh, holy shit. Wow. Just prancing, French, prancing, eighteenth century Frenchman. That's right.

[00:29:24]

Nothing more embarrassing and boring than simulated walking.

[00:29:27]

Oh, that's awful. That's not even like a civil war reenactment. They're killing anyway. Everyone's getting along with the fucking arena. Synchronized not.

[00:29:33]

Yeah. Synchronized walking. Let's do that.

[00:29:36]

While dressed like eighteenth century French soldiers. So musical acts also perform, including Native American drummers, historical folk music performers, French folk singers and period Fife and drum corps Fife, whatever the. Oh yeah, I don't know, whistle thinking is so.

[00:29:54]

Yeah, lots of that. There's food booths, roasted corn, buffalo burgers, homemade root beer. You know we have.

[00:30:01]

Have you ever had like an ABC or like a like a Stewarts. That's good root at Western sarsaparilla. Get it. You don't need it exists in the barrel made root beer. Somebody in the kitchen sugar together in a rabbit stew in a homemade root beer.

[00:30:16]

No. The fuck were we hobos.

[00:30:19]

Hold that. Let me put my Bendl down like order a fucking rabbit stew in a homemade root beer out of here.

[00:30:25]

And also, I don't know what this is. As you would expect, a huge gathering of settlers sute LIRR will be present at the Feast of the Hunters. Moonta off, as you would expect, obviously a tough period Arah wears and crafts, furs, clothing, woodwork, toys, baskets, Apple head dolls.

[00:30:43]

But it's terrifying. Apple, it sounds like a doll with an apple hat. Yeah, that's grossing that doll doesn't last long now. It'll rot right away. Treat it to brother smoking weed out as a man would you do. I swallowed it out brother. Worry about it. Couldn't find my bullshit. Brother lost a mountain dew can musical instruments barrels cast iron fireworks cast iron fireworks lighting fireworks that make cast iron shit.

[00:31:08]

Oh God. Firework fire. Yeah they it's one word they it not quilts blankets pottery but who gives a shit anyway.

[00:31:16]

Crime rate in this town. Great. That festival sucks. I'm bored. They blew it. They really really great name bullshit opportunity. So property crime is almost double the national average which is kind of typical for college towns. College kids do dumb shit and they, they really do. They do dumb shit. They get drunk in the streets and all that kind of thing, and they take shit out on their boyfriend or girlfriend. Well, that's where you get the proper to the violent crime.

[00:31:38]

Oh, the property crime, violent crime, murder, rape, robbery and of course, assault.

[00:31:43]

The Mount Rushmore of crime is high, about twenty percent high here. So a little bit high on that, too. So it's got some stuff popping off, which is strange. Well, speaking of stuff popping off.

[00:31:54]

Yeah. Let's talk about a murder. Right. OK, this here.

[00:31:58]

Let's let's start with a couple of people, a couple of people, Shellie and Gerald Smith. That's they sound very nice, very pleasant people. He goes by Jerry. Jerry, how are you doing? I think he goes by Gerald.

[00:32:10]

He seems to call him Gerald. Gerald Smith is thirty in 1982 and Shelley Smith is twenty six in 1982. So the story takes place in nineteen eighty two, which is makes it more. Thing I think here is that he Gerald is a senior at Purdue, so he's 30, 30 oh, he's 30. I don't know what if there was a kind of gap he had or whatever, but he also delivers newspapers in the morning. So he's basically except for the college, like if he dropped out of college, he'd be Chris Elliott from Get a Life at All, Joe, back in the day there.

[00:32:47]

But instead he's in college and married. So it's he has a life going on here. So he's doing fine. Gerald Smith, he's trying to graduate, trying to make ends meet while he graduates. He's married to Shelley Smith, who's 26. She stays at home because they have a one year old daughter. Oh. So she takes care of their one year old daughter. He hustles newspapers in the morning. He gets gets up at about 2:00 in the morning, leaves the house at three and delivers newspapers, gets home about eight thirty, changes his clothes and goes to class four.

[00:33:15]

So, you know, and then he's got a one year old and she's got this half life. Yeah. And then she's got the one year old by herself. So it's they're both you know, they're working toward a bigger goal is what we're getting out. They're building something together as a family here.

[00:33:28]

So in nineteen eighty one, there's some other people involved that we'll we'll talk about here. So they're married for a couple of years. They seem very happy. Like we said, he's he's in college. She's into like poetry, Shelley, and like they're kind of like kind of artsy. They're artsy people like she has like poetry reading jam sessions over in the living room of the house, you know what I mean? People like local people that they know friends and artists come over.

[00:33:54]

And it's kind of like in like the late 50s. It's weird. They're like twenty years still going on from, like, what they used to do, like with the beatniks and hippies and shit later on would do just get together and have jam sessions and shit. But that's kind of where the teenagers do fucking now.

[00:34:09]

Yeah. Now it's time to get to that shit together along that's very popular. Express and feelings and stuff. Fuck.

[00:34:16]

Yeah. Eighty two though it wasn't. No it didn't seem to be a big thing but so nineteen eighty one the year before that our main kind of center of the story. But this is we'll go back to eighty one for a second and talk about a woman who they know later on they don't know her. At the time an eighty one woman named Marsha Ruth healed old healed her well held. I don't know.

[00:34:40]

I'm going to go healed well with Marcia, Marcia, Marcia, Marcia, Marcia. Marcia is forty four years old. Yeah. She at this point she has two teenage sons. She's been divorced twice and she's forty four. She's had a life, she's a religious woman. She goes to church and she was born, she's raised in Indiana by her parents who have lived there, obviously probably wasn't raised in an orphanage or anything. She's raised in I think Plainfield, Indiana, and she's raised as a Quaker boy.

[00:35:10]

So she's raised as a Quaker. She plays the harp.

[00:35:14]

Yeah, she does her and describes her as, quote, well-educated. She was a graduate of Earlham College and then earned a graduate degree at Indiana University. Awesome. So, yeah, she does mean it's great for doing very well for herself. She always did well in school and she worked for libraries. Since then. She's very much into books and music and arts. A heart. That's what I mean. She's into that sort of thing. She's not someone who's like, cool, I'm going to Wall Street.

[00:35:41]

Right. I'm going to make a buck in the stock market. Like she's much more into, you know, more, I don't know, more artsy endeavors here. So she she goes there. She was very active in the in the local Society of Friends church and in music groups. Yeah. So she's into church. She's into music groups, social. She does things. She comes from her family is like a good family. They live on and she's raised on a farm that her family still lives in the same you know, her parents still live there outside of Plainfield and they live there forever.

[00:36:15]

She in nineteen eighty one, she's employed at the Indiana State Library in downtown Indianapolis, where she worked in the library's loan department since 1979.

[00:36:25]

The loans, the loans, I don't know if that's loaning out books. Is it that or is it like she the library cop like on Seinfeld or what's her story as a loan officer for pain.

[00:36:33]

You're talking overdubs. That's what I mean. Is she going around collecting here? This person owes us sixty five cents break and legs. They've had this book for eleven years. They lost sixty five cents. I got to collect dispatching a group of thugs to knock on your door. She's got like a bunch of Hells Angels that she sends out there. Yeah. Fuck you guys get a cut of it. We'll give you three nickels if you pull this together.

[00:36:57]

Hey, next week or snots going to come visit. Who's going to come after you? I'll tell you what. So February of nineteen eighty, she also started working two Saturdays a month at the Indianapolis Children's Museum. Oh that's nice. She does lots of fucking like. Yeah, she's proper shit. Yes. She's very much things that we don't do ever. She has an education that we don't do that she works at the library. Forget going there once.

[00:37:25]

She wants to help people with her stuff, she, you know, she works at a children's museum because she likes the children and she likes the the she likes the museum, too. She's into education. That's, you know, she's very smart and she's, like I said, divorced twice. And she has at the time a 16 year old son and a 14 year old son or are 13 at the time. And her 17 year old son lives in Plainfield with her parents and he stays there.

[00:37:51]

And then her 14 year old son moved to Albuquerque the year before.

[00:37:57]

Yeah, well, nice, nice pop there. Hey, Pop, that that bad boy, good for her younger son, moved to Albuquerque to stay with it with her ex-husband. His father. Yeah. So he was going to go live with the father for a while or best, which is fine. So she's living alone at this moment in time, but she's in constant contact with her sons and things like that. They they haven't, you know, disowned her anything.

[00:38:17]

She's they just wanted to. Yeah, you know what I mean. Something else. Yeah.

[00:38:21]

So she lived in this area kind of her whole life, except she moved away during one of her marriages briefly and came back. So her father, a retired truck driver and laborer, and he keeps the grounds for several churches in the area on a volunteer basis because he's retired. So she comes from a nice Quaker family who, you know, volunteers and goes to college and then helps children and, you know, mow the lawn mowing lawns and fun fucking weed wax for free.

[00:38:51]

Yeah, that's when you're retired. Imagine being like seventy two years old and being, like, going over to a weed whacker. Right.

[00:38:57]

The old Baptist Baptist Lawn is a little overgrown. Nope. I don't care what I have. I dispatched my grandchildren to do this type of thing. Now you're going over here, you're doing volunteer work for me. You're doing say it's from me. Yeah, but I can't do it.

[00:39:12]

I wouldn't even bother. I'd just cut the grass.

[00:39:14]

It looks like shit looks terrible. I can bums. So now we got to talk about another guy here who she meets, a man named Brian Thornton Thornton. He is he's a he's a musician. He's a piano technician. He's saying, I don't know what the hell a piano. It's he fixed pianos. There's a whole racket for tune. That's what I mean.

[00:39:38]

I don't know if he does, like for he could be a piano tech for like concerts or for studio work or something. They have those I know that'll get the piano all ready for the artist to sit down and they can just crank it is expensive.

[00:39:51]

Yeah.

[00:39:51]

No, it's, it's a it's an art form and it's you know, and if you're into music, it's, I guess a good way to make a living. You can still be around a piano. And he this is I've never heard of anyone doing this before. I feel like, OK, he builds harpsichords. I feel like all the harpsichords in the world were built in before the eighteen seventies.

[00:40:09]

Right. We've probably got plenty about eighteen eighty there. Like that's enough harpsichord and I think we're good for like two hundred years.

[00:40:16]

As soon as they were plural. We're good, we're shutting it down like you know it's one of the things if you want a harpsichord you get, it's like an antique harpsichord from the you know, some French person's house in 1870, set it on desk and never touch the fucking thing. That's what I mean. I don't know. I didn't know that they were currently being produced. I've never heard anybody need a harpsichord bad. Have you never. Never seen one.

[00:40:38]

I feel like when someone dies who has won, it'll go to somebody else. And that's enough harpsichords around. And hopefully that person knows how to play the fucking thing. If not, they can maybe give it to someone who does. That's how harpsichords get around. But I don't feel like they're made and produced. And I'm going down to the harpsichord store. It's like I've been in music stores, a lot of them, and I've never seen harpsichords for sale.

[00:40:57]

Yeah, I bought a guitar for my kids for their birthday. And now was there a harpsichord sax? I don't think so. No, I think, you know, there was there was guitars and drums and bass or to the tambourine done.

[00:41:11]

That's about all. Yeah. I don't know. I don't see a lot of harpsichord saying there wasn't a guy in the back with, like puffy sleeves toiling on a harpsichord and making one, honing it and whittling it out as some shoes hooks on the ends. Yeah. That's not so strange. Little bells on the outside. I would think you'd see that. So he was Brian was put in an asylum at age ten. Yeah. For a while.

[00:41:35]

For a while. Well, we don't really know exactly for what. And it's what we don't. This is a chicken or the egg situation.

[00:41:43]

Brian is. We'll find out a little bit later.

[00:41:46]

We're not quite sure Brian's got some what would be considered in nineteen eighty two Indiana aberrant lifestyle choices, which now would be nothing at all and not considered harpsichord.

[00:41:57]

He's well, he's running around with the harpsichord, the bells on the pointy shoes. People are freaking out, but we'll find out. Brian, is Brian kind of Brian's a little bit by is bisexual. Kind of. He'll go, you know, with men, sometimes with women sometimes. I guess that's the definition. Yeah. And that's there it is. It's the one. So the symptoms, those are the symptom. So I don't know if back then in the fifties, if a kid showed.

[00:42:23]

Tendencies that way they would put them in a fucking asylum sometimes if they was like a very religious family or just a just a lot of times just people who didn't know back then. So they thought it was and people used to it was classified as a mental illness. Right. Until like the 80s or some shit.

[00:42:38]

Sexuality was, too. That's what I'm talking about. That's just I mean, not just bisexual. I mean, any kind of homosexual tendencies, as they would put it back then. But any any anything perceived gayness back then, they'd be like, I get needs help, but I'm going to Otomi.

[00:42:52]

Yeah. Whereas, you know, some parents, if they were good, would talk to their kid to find out what they're into and then be like, oh all right. Well they seem like they want that and then you just. Yeah I don't know. But anyway for that one. So he was, he's putting aside so we don't know what happened or if there was other reasons why. But he says when he was in the asylum, he he saw what he called atrocities there, I'm sure.

[00:43:16]

Go on. And this is a this is like in the early 60s. Yeah. So think about that. I'm sorry. Like the early 50s. So this is not a time when this was. Have you seen like Cropsey. Yeah, OK. Well, terrible. Like with Cropsey that's that was the late 60s.

[00:43:33]

They were just letting people fucking run around in their own shit. And, you know, it was it's it's disturbing to watch how they treated those people think about 20 years before that, how they were treated children, because they didn't think they'd do any better.

[00:43:47]

They couldn't understand or process or telling. And that's with adults. Right. That's why they'd let them go, because physically, you don't have to tangle with them. You can physically dominate a ten year old. So that would be scary of how they were.

[00:43:57]

So anyway, Brian and Marsha meet each other in September of nineteen eighty one. They meet each other at the Eagle Creek Rendezvous, which is a music festival hearable.

[00:44:11]

You know, it was harpsichord players and everything are some symphony. Somebody with a lute. Yeah, a lot of that shit. Yeah. It was rough. They worked out several tunes together. She was playing the dulcimer. I don't even know what it is. I don't know either. I know it's some something you have to pick. It's got strings. I know that because later on one of the ladies complains that she didn't like the way she played the dulcimer.

[00:44:36]

Oh, it wasn't into it.

[00:44:38]

No, not her cup of tea now. Just not good. And Thornton was playing his flute. OK, I know that is so. Yeah. Old fashioned. Yeah.

[00:44:47]

They're skipping around, man.

[00:44:49]

This is some like how do you spell dulcimers it with a Y d dual S or topsides ULC. I mean.

[00:44:56]

Oh it's like a fucking steel guitar. Yeah. OK, there you go. It's a like a lay down guitar.

[00:45:02]

OK, so there was some kind of string instrument or or it's not good.

[00:45:07]

What the fuck. You can't, that's not the same instrument. You can't have that and that and have them be called the same thing. Now that's they make the same sound. I see that one being like a renaissance fair.

[00:45:20]

That's all I'm saying. Yeah. It's an old fashioned that long guitar, something she needs to pick the strings on. I was I knew that had to be a string and those are not the same instrument.

[00:45:29]

God damn it. Get those off the internet together and him on the flute with a big jester hat, you know, with bells on it. So to match his shoes while he hopped on. Yes.

[00:45:38]

Back and forth with this flute due to tattoos. Yeah. Wearing tights and sitting in a chair with that shit on her lap. Yeah. And a picture. And they're just they're having a just a grand old time look at that. Isn't that wonderful. They're liking it, loved it. They get into it and they like each other. These two, they like each other a little bit as friends will be romantically, you know, they're into each other.

[00:45:59]

So they're they're having a good time making music together. They both have interests in 18th century reenactments. So they love going to the the Feast of the Hunters.

[00:46:09]

And they love that shit.

[00:46:13]

They love it a lot. And they go to folk music festivals together and oh, boy, they become you know, they become friends and shit. You know, later on she gets a little bit clingy and he kind of wants to break away. But it's not that bad. And we'll get into that in a little bit here. But she is very much into music. Yeah. She keeps a journal which we're going to refer to plenty over the course of this in the journal.

[00:46:38]

Here's a quote from one of her journals. This was made on February 4th. Nineteen eighty two, quote, Music is the language of souls. We play music in many places and many settings among many people until we find those who have have the matching souls. OK, so she's saying she might have found her matching soul through music. OK, with Brian here in nineteen eighty one, October eighty one she Marsia goes with Brian to the Egyptian display and he read the hieroglyphics as I guess he had taken some Egyptian shit.

[00:47:11]

Oh read some hieroglyphic. Right. It's fluent.

[00:47:14]

I don't know if he's fluent or he might have been full of shit. Who knows. I mean this right here is the cat likes the arrows. That's hieroglyphics. I shooting them taum. Yeah I. To tell you anything that's like, you know, doing like a nonsense foreign language for an actor like I got like that. Yeah, what language is that? Oh, it's fucking whatever. It's like Kazakhstani Borat. It's just not a real language.

[00:47:37]

So I don't know.

[00:47:38]

Anyway, she it was then I mean you could you could make up anything you want now because nobody fucking knows what that is, is what I'm getting at.

[00:47:45]

It's not active the Rosetta Stone for this I'm sure.

[00:47:49]

But they do, they probably do other hieroglyphics. I'm going to get that money out of you one way or another. So she at that point told him that she believed that she was ancient.

[00:48:01]

OK, what do you mean?

[00:48:03]

Well, she believed she was not of this time. Oh, she believes she was ancient and has lived many lives as lady in our soul.

[00:48:13]

Yeah, she's been reincarnated over and over. All right. We'll find out how she's a party. Yeah. And and she also she told her friends that Brian told her that, quote, My friends think I'm the God pan, OK?

[00:48:30]

I don't know that particular God I'm not. Or maybe it's an Egyptian.

[00:48:33]

I'm not sure I'm not up on my gods. Peter thing not positive.

[00:48:37]

She said, well, I'll be I'll be your Tinkerbelle. And then you went off together and Tetun fucked while he played the flute. I don't know what happened so that none of that happened. But he said he thinks my friends think I'm the God pan. So that's not going so far as to say I think I'm the that I've been told. Rumors abound that I am possibly the God pan, but don't quote me on that.

[00:48:59]

Not that I resemble. I off the record. Right off the record.

[00:49:04]

This is what friends have told me. I haven't confirmed it for myself, obviously, but that's what's going around.

[00:49:10]

You'll tell me people tell me this and it's possible. You know, I could be the God. Ben, what do I look like? I don't know. I play the flute pretty well. Harpsichord. How many other people do not know how to make a harpsichord, huh? That's right. Got pan right here.

[00:49:21]

Whatever that anytime somebody says people tell me I look like this, that's that person wishing they look. Yeah, yeah. People always tell me that you always look at them and go, do they know that. Oh who would tell you that.

[00:49:31]

What asshole did this to you. No one's ever told me look like anybody. No. That's the honest to God truth. I've heard Dana Carvey and that's just because we both have thin lips. That's it. Neither of us have an upper lip between us.

[00:49:43]

You looked like the drummer in a in the nineties band that I saw video for. I remember. And I sent you the screen. What was that? I don't remember.

[00:49:51]

You look just fucking like them, dude. It looked just like you. It was it was creepy.

[00:49:57]

And to my credit, or there's possibly a lot of people look like me at an angle. And I know that because Facebook tags me in so many people's pictures, none of them look like me. Put that on anyone. That's pretty cool.

[00:50:11]

But I had on the glasses have a beer. That's everybody. That's all that sees that those three features. You're everything. I can't see your face. There's a hat. I don't know. You are done. It's beautiful. Hide it. Oh shit. So she decided later on in the month after the God pan thing in the hieroglyphic reading sheet. OK, well she decided that if if this is what she told her friends, if Christ came back to Earth.

[00:50:40]

Yeah. If he would be Thornton, he'd be bright. He'd be Brian. Yeah, absolutely.

[00:50:46]

If he came back, I feel like that's who we'd be. Yeah. So that's just on the table. I feel like it's possible. That's what she said. Yeah. So she's like I just want everyone to know that, that I, it's, I'm not sure he is. Christ that's not what I'm saying. But if Jesus was back that's the guy, he's right here in front of me.

[00:51:03]

So I found him just in case. But you never know if. Yeah. By if by chance he was back now I think I ran into him. That's all I'm going to say. Good guy plays the flute. We get along well. So she's just saying that much. So fast forward, let's fast forward. This is like blade eighty one early eighty two. Let's fast forward to August 2nd, nineteen eighty to August 2nd. Nineteen eighty to eight thirty am to be very specific.

[00:51:30]

Gerald Smith. Remember him. Thirty years old, deliver newspapers going to Purdue as a wife named Shelley, one year old daughter. They're hustlin ok. Gerald Smith calls nine one one at eight thirty a.m.. Oh Gerald calls 911 one to say that his wife has been attacked in their home as she walked in. She's in the hallway. She's unresponsive. There's blood everywhere and she's naked. Oh, boy. Not a good night on one call to make.

[00:51:55]

He said, I just got home for my paper route and this is what I found. Right. So police arrive and they find her. She is she's dead. Shelley has been killed. And this is well, this is one of the police officers here. Quote, The murder was extremely brutal. He said it was one of the worst I've ever seen. He said, quote, There was a large number of stab wounds with a variety of weapons, he said.

[00:52:23]

Nothing in the apartment indicated there'd been a struggle, there's nothing knocked over, no lamps, nothing like that. He said that Shelley Smith is nearly decapitated, barely just some some tissue and flesh basically holding her head on her body seems to be very common. I don't know what it is about. Yeah, but a lot of times they do it a certain way. We'll get into this. This was beyond what we usually see. Usually it's there's at least a swift instrument of some kind or this is another level of when we get into how this happened.

[00:52:57]

So they said four knives ranging in size from a paring knife to a large butcher knife were found like kind of spread around the area of where they found Shelley. And in her body was nude. She was found in the hallway there. The he described her lying on her stomach with her palms down her hand. Her head was twisted around and basically.

[00:53:24]

Yeah, her also above her hair above her head intertwined, basically had like there was leaves in her hair, like vine from a wandering Jew plant. Yeah. And that's what they're called wondering. I have one in my living room actually, but they're the there's a vine with like in her hair, like in her like a crown like almost like just yeah. It's like in her hair. Now we don't we're not sure how this exactly happened. And there's pieces of a broken mirror everywhere all over the place.

[00:53:56]

And a brown clay pot was near her head as well, an empty brown clay pot. So a lot of clues. This is all. Yeah, this is a scene. Naked, dead woman, blood everywhere, head nearly off, broken mirror, times of night, clearly placed in her hair a like a, you know, a vine with some leaves in it in there.

[00:54:16]

Also, this is a very odd scene. Now, the police officer said that he was he was a religious guy and he was brought up in the church. And because of that, his first thought was that this had something to do with the occult, the murder. He said that there were two books on the occult, on a nearby dresser and a picture on a picture of a crucifix and unusual colors. Oh, not a not a rainbow crucifix.

[00:54:41]

There's not that. Oh, God.

[00:54:42]

Well, that must be a and it's 1982. Case closed. It's Indiana. That's what I mean. It's very everything is very conservative in terms of just its footloose. This is the town from Footloose. Basically that's where it wasn't in Indiana. I don't know. It's somewhere in there in the Midwest. I don't know. So he says quote, It was so great, it was so gruesome. It suggested something other than just shoot him up and get out kind of deal.

[00:55:06]

Yeah. It was clearly, you know, somebody worked at this so that her one year old daughter was inside the apartment as well, safe and sound, not uninjured, untouched in her room. I mean, not not uninjured. No, but I mean in her room. I had no idea anything anything happened. Didn't looks like that no one ever went in that room. There's no blood in there. There's no footprints. There's no anything. So nothing like that.

[00:55:29]

And Gerald Smith is allowed to take the baby outside, at least because, I mean, obviously, he's I would say is your number one suspect immediately when the husband calls. I was I was out and I came home and he or she is like, really? Did you know that was what everybody says?

[00:55:44]

So they also noticed that at some point Shelly was hit over the head by something in the apartment, which might be the clay pot, possibly most of the blood was found where Shelly was discovered in a hallway that leads from the bathroom to other parts of the apartment. And they said the husband left about three a.m. he and we'll find out a little bit more exact about that for his job delivering papers.

[00:56:08]

He said she was fine when he left. He left. He said he returned about eight thirty and found her. He said when he left, he closed the door quietly but didn't lock it, which I get it's nineteen eighty two in Indiana.

[00:56:20]

But why wouldn't you lock your door? You got a one year old. How do you not lock your door?

[00:56:23]

I know that I'm from a different place or whatever, but you lock your door, always just lock it. It's not that hard. Just click. There you go. Peace of mind. Yeah. Hey, no one will walk in and butcher my family.

[00:56:33]

Not even necessarily. It'll be harder for your wife. But you got a one year old, you got a baby Jesus even for you. If you're in there, just lock it up. Who knows? You know, it's not to keep bad guys out. It sure keeps her in the baby.

[00:56:46]

Yeah, not no. They have an 18 month old baby that's right on. Yeah. Yeah. Keep that thing inside.

[00:56:52]

You think actually getting the key, they're like, no, that's not what happened at all from what we understand here. So he, he was holding a little girl when the cops arrived. He stood outside the house for most of the afternoon with the baby and then was at police headquarters and didn't comment to the press at all. But talk to the police and gave the statements and all that sort of thing. Police, they go inside the apartment, they gather information.

[00:57:18]

They said they've done a very extensive investigation in the apartment. Gerald here, he says, quote, Later on, he said he returned from his paper route, quote, She was lying there with her face up and there was a piece of mirror laying on top of her under her chin. He said, I was shocked and confused. I reached down and took the piece of mirror off of her. I thought it was laying on her chin, but it was laying on her back because the rest of her body was turned around.

[00:57:45]

The fact that my Christ, yeah, oh, boy, yeah, her head was back to backward. That's wild, that's why. So imagine that boy horrific. That is horrific. He said her body was cold. I stood there. I tried to make sense of what was happening. That's what he told the police. So, I mean, Jesus Christ, that's horrific. So back to Brian and Marsha. OK, back to those two hanging out and playing the flute and skipping around May of that year, May of nineteen eighty two.

[00:58:18]

She attended a renaissance fair in Indianapolis. She did. Yeah, of course. Because Thornton was booked to play the harpsichord there. That's gigs you get is a renaissance fair game.

[00:58:27]

Yeah. So he's got a RENVELA. I just picture Pat Oswald in Reno nine one one.

[00:58:32]

That's all I picture. And them yelling at him and he's like, no, no, you don't understand, they're in this time and blah blah blah. I don't think as modern convenience I kicked your ass the goddamn car. That's what I picture. So you've been to it here right now.

[00:58:47]

Oh, James. Oh, my daughter likes that shit. She thinks she likes like that kind of. I feel like it. She's like an act. Yeah. But if covid wasn't happening I'd drag your ass there because it's beautiful and it's in a nice here it is. It's I'm not doing anything. I'm not going to drive to go to a lot of desert. There's never going to happen. I don't care what's there. That is hilarious. Never happening.

[00:59:10]

An hour and a half to fucking get there. There's desert here. Then you get there. Yeah. The turkey leg and then drive an hour and a half on a dusty turkey from the desert.

[00:59:19]

Now I see a guy, Jim Sowards and Ostro. I do nothing here. It's just all dirt and lots of dudes that do that. And it's not chicks, you know, they know it's rare. Like, I'd watch it a little closer if it was a war. We're going to get tweeted like a million chicks sword swallower. Now, you know, we are know. We are not. Look at this. This lady doesn't. I just want to watch.

[00:59:38]

Here's my friend and down to the hilt, dude, the like right to the hilt. Puts it between his teeth, opens his mouth and it fucking slam.

[00:59:47]

He's not raising. I want to take you. I really do. To the to the red one.

[00:59:52]

That's not very sexual. I want to take you. It was like I looked over at you like well what do you want to talk about. Jazmín things down your throat. And then you're like, I want to take you back. Hold on. It's like what are we talking about. The beard is very, very confused for a second here. Yeah. I was like, good lord, how this edible. I got that the animal kicked in a little bit ago, but like not that hard.

[01:00:13]

What's happened?

[01:00:14]

This guy James blows up like long balloons and pushed them down his throat. Yeah. And then his stomach gets really big because he's got fucking balloons in there. And then he jams the knife down there and his stomach goes back to normal as possible.

[01:00:26]

So then he's going to get a shit rubber around chunks of rubber sitting out balloon. Not colorful. It's unfair. It's did I eat Lucky Charms today? I don't know which one. So that's hirable. It's wild.

[01:00:41]

Well, that's what they go to the unfair to the red and fair we go. And she said if it wasn't in the middle of the desert, I got it, but I'm not going to the desert.

[01:00:48]

So she said there, this is one of the when things start to go a little well, a little loopy with her. I mean, the Jesus thing and all that was a little loopy. But she said that while she was there, an Egyptian looking man wearing a lot of a lot of jewelry seduced her there.

[01:01:09]

Yeah. OK, so bejewelled Egyptian man seduced her at their own fair, which is interesting. I don't understand that. More on that later. Don't worry. I'm sure that'll come back. It's not Xerxes. No, we don't know. Just a guy who's just been some Italian guy wearing a lot of jewelry and she's like he's an Egyptian man. Is the guy that come over here. How are you doing?

[01:01:31]

Look at you two little sweet asseri. I mean, get you a turkey leg and some food on top of you. And I'm talking about come over here. Sweet. I come into my tent for a minute now. I think he's Egyptian.

[01:01:44]

She's she's from Indiana. She's a Quaker. She has no idea. Never seen culture. Egyptians. Oh he was just wearing gold so much he had a horn of gold around his neck. So she in May, she threw herself at Brian Thornton's feet and began kissing them. For what reason? Out of the blue. Yeah. He told her at that point that she was, quote, loony. Yeah.

[01:02:09]

But didn't like a fun way, like looney loony man.

[01:02:14]

So during this time, he started asking his friends that he knew and that she was introduced to kind of what can you talk to her and like tell her like, you know, like, hey, I'm not Jesus. Just tell her I'm not Jesus, if you would like us. She started to kiss my feet and shit like that and it's getting a little bit weird. So just be like, hey, you know, Brian's not Jesus, right?

[01:02:33]

Joke around. Don't make her feel uncomfortable. He's, you know, that sort of thing satellited in the comics. Don't shoehorn it.

[01:02:40]

If she brings it up right. Make sure to give a retort is all I'm asking for. Shelley Smith is one of the people that he asked maybe, you know, if I if you guys run across each other, be like, hey, by the way, Brian, not Jesus. Have a good one, whatever.

[01:02:53]

So they continued, though, Marsha and Brian continued to hang out with each other and play functions. There is a dulcimer society that they go to and what they both hang out there.

[01:03:05]

How do you find this whole underground society? You go to a there and I guess this one you'll find it. Oh, it's all there in July of eighty two.

[01:03:15]

She saw Brian at the Fiddler's Festival Festival.

[01:03:20]

People are booking these things. A fiddlers festival, ren fairs, dulcimer societies. What the fuck is worse.

[01:03:26]

People are patronising. They're going and going and watching. That's I mean there has to be there has to be members, enough members to support this. Other people doing this. How are they finding this? How is this happening? I am fascinated with whatever underground society they have going on here, fascinated by it. I'm always fascinated whenever anybody gets like a little society going, as long as it's not like destructive to people when it's fringe like that.

[01:03:50]

Well, yeah, but when it's like this, they're not bothering anybody. They're fucking playing fiddles and shit like that. You can dulcimer dulcimer to your heart's content. No one's going to be, you know, hurt from that at all. This is this sort of thing I have no problem with whatsoever. I don't want to do it, but go crazy if you want to. But yeah, I am fascinated by it. Also, I battle ground.

[01:04:11]

I don't know what the hell that was. I imagine dress up like the fucking battle ground in like the barbarians of the time and fucking fight. I sit in the park all the time.

[01:04:21]

Well the problem is the battle ground one got broken up by a rainstorm and apparently during it before the rainstorm, he had been in her mind avoiding her brain, had been avoiding Marsia. She thought she was like, I don't know, man. He's talking to me. Just kind of looks like he's trying to get away from me and trying to avoid me. So then the rain came. So she told her friend and wrote in her diary as well, quote, He caused a rainstorm to avoid seeing me.

[01:04:50]

Oh, and that's so mind you made it rain. Oh, jeez. Oh, boy. That is what is happening. That is next fucking level. Now be between her ears. Yeah. Now, at this point, she starts to tell people that she believes Brian is in fact Jesus. OK, like the actual he's Christ like that. Just, you know, not like a Christ figure or a prophet. He's the actual Jesus. So there he is.

[01:05:20]

Yeah. And she says some people around her, around him, some of his friends are keeping him from realizing his Christ potential. Oh, they're holding them back. They're holding his Jesus back. That's what they're doing. He's like a Jack in the box. It's on its last crack. And they refused to pull it over and just let it crank and let him pop out and turn water into wine and shit.

[01:05:42]

They they're saying it could keeping him down, which some people like to keep their friends down, makes them feel better.

[01:05:47]

It's surrounded by a bunch of Judas. Yeah. I mean crabs in a bucket like, you know, that's the original crabs in a bucket I guess, right there. Yeah. So crabs in a bucket. They always say in comedy they don't you don't want people don't want people to get ahead of them. They right. They like crabs in a bucket, they pull them back in down. They all believe they're Jesus. Yeah. But this is what comics do.

[01:06:06]

Yeah. Most of them comics and doctors believe they're Jesus because to heal someone is like a magic trick. So that would give someone a God complex and to be able to go in front of hundreds of people cold. Yeah. And they don't fucking know who you are and make them laugh. Forget it. How many people do you know personally that can do that? I'm not fucking many. So that's what it's now don't get us wrong. It's not a godlike thing.

[01:06:29]

It's just a stupid skill that you've practiced enough to be able to do it. It's a magic trick. But in a deranged, narcissistic head, people go, I'm God, look what I did. You know, if they're following me, it's fucking crazy that David Blaine feels that way. Probably.

[01:06:43]

Yeah, I would assume so.

[01:06:45]

So even though he knows what's happening, he knows what he's doing. Yeah. Still. And it makes a lot. David, calm down.

[01:06:52]

He do you hate him. You know, there's something about that guy. OK, let's let's David Blaine now when he was back in the day when he first came out the street magic and he did like he went on like David Letterman and like did a couple of cool card tricks that look like he was a fuckin warlock guy. I remembered him doing this card trick where they slo mo even in slo mo frame by frame.

[01:07:17]

There's you can't just change it just dead. It just does it right. It just happens like you don't see. So that was pretty cool. But that's not a reason to be famous. He was just a guy who's going to make good tips on the street, like make doing cool tricks on the subway. He's going to kill it. Yeah. And then he's like, I'm going to bury myself, you know, in the middle of Mount Everest, in the very center base of it.

[01:07:38]

And then I'm going to explode out of the top of it like a fucking volcano, you know, with the words David and fireworks above me and. Think it's a little far, I think I think you're taking it too far. He is named after a guy in the Bible, but he thinks he's Jesus. He thinks he's something. I don't know what the hell he thinks he is, but he thinks he's something. He's quite biblical. Yeah, I feel like he learned card tricks to get girls to fuck him.

[01:07:59]

Yeah, that's that's how I do it. Yeah. He was like, well, that's something that's going to get that. But it's it's better than having no approach at all. At least it's a cold. You can you can break the ice with, you know, some crazy, magical, wild shit. That wedding ring somewhere fantastic. There you go.

[01:08:16]

So back to Marcia here now. Marcia, Marcia feels like she's she's a honed in on the source of what's keeping Brian from his his Christ potential. Yeah. OK. And also her potential to be with him because she's got an idea of who she is as well that we'll talk about now.

[01:08:37]

She referred. She doesn't know who the person is, but she knows she doesn't know what form this will take, but she knows what the force behind it is that's keeping Brian down.

[01:08:48]

If he she refers in her binder journal to a, quote, lady of illusion, a lady of illusion with red hair, holding Brian's love for her and his Christ like potential in in chains. That's just he can't he can't achieve it and she can't.

[01:09:07]

Some ginger is holding them back. This lady of illusion. God damn down, fucking bitch.

[01:09:14]

Every time this lady of illusion, she gets me. So, yeah. Brian, a little more about Brian. He says when he's ten, that's the he went to an asylum, what he refers to as a quote, insane asylum, said it wasn't a nice place. He said there was atrocities that he saw. He also tells her of a time when this might have been one of the reasons why he was in an institution in the 50s.

[01:09:39]

He had a boyhood fantasy where I guess some delusion that the numbers 666 were branded on his right hand. So he thought he was like the devil for a short time as a child based on this delusion. And then he was put in an institution and I don't know what came first. Good news, the check things are the opposite. So, yeah, you got that. He said that he also this is what he told me. They kind of shared their secrets, him and Marsha.

[01:10:08]

They shared you know, he told she told him crazy shit like, I think you're Jesus. And she told him or he told her, hey, I had a fantasy about having sex, sex, sex on my hand was put in an insane asylum. They also talked in later meetings about how they have he has a theory that angels come down and mate with humans and then return to heaven.

[01:10:28]

Oh, these two. What the fuck? That's his theory. So I don't even know what the fuck to say about that. What do you say about that?

[01:10:38]

A lot get help. I mean, yeah, you're both nuts.

[01:10:43]

So in May, she writes her will for some reason, for no reason why she's not sick. She just writes her well, she's starting to have a little mental she's going a little off the off the deep end. So she writes, this is for her family and friends and everything. When she thinks she thinks at this point, she writes in her in her diary that are in her in her actual well that she's probably going to be killed by Brian Thornton.

[01:11:09]

Marcia is because she's a sinner and he's Jesus. So the only way Jesus. Because Jesus kills sinners.

[01:11:15]

Yeah, that's what she says. And a lawyer that was like, that'll do. That's fine. Because this isn't notarized. This isn't notarised. This is just this. She writes this down, kind of puts it in her stuff for like her family and privacy of her own home. There's not she's not there's no actual she's not deeming property. She's not doling out actual things that can be measured OK in her will.

[01:11:36]

She says, quote, to Jerry, Play and sing, play and sing. Your music fills the universe to Cindy. You are beautiful in your diversity. You attract you attract all your many facets.

[01:11:50]

That's not what happened here.

[01:11:52]

Well, she's not willing anything. That's what I'm saying. It's just like it's more like a letter to her friends.

[01:11:57]

It's strange how willing their own energy to do something. What?

[01:12:01]

Yeah, you're beautiful. Keep doing that. Do I keep that up in your. Well, hey sweetheart. Wink, wink. Keep that up Will. Yeah.

[01:12:09]

So in a letter to Brian over the summer, she writes, this is like July ish.

[01:12:14]

She writes, quote, I am always fascinated by the movie Night of the Generals, which I have not seen. I assume it's an older movie. I watch it with rapt and adoring attention to the performances of Peter O'Toole, who's an amazing actor, as the clean, pure, beautiful and untouchable Nazi general who slices and hacks to pieces the prostitute because she offers him too little.

[01:12:39]

Peter, she wrote, Peter O'Toole is apparently a prostitute shop Nazi at one point, had no idea I did not see this movie at all. I saw him in high spirits and loved him. Totally missed that one. Seems like he would have been great and intolerable bastards. I to. But what's his name. Right. When I say intolerable.

[01:12:56]

Jesus Christ. What the fuck is wrong with me? That sounds like a better title.

[01:13:01]

We just watch that intolerable cruelty. Yes. I hate this movie like two weeks ago. That's so intolerable that you made a new movie. That's that's what I would call that, which would be a great movie that would be adding one Hitler bastards with Catherine Zeta Jones. Well, anyone who in that movie being hunted down by the crew from Inglourious Basterds and having the Bajou bash their fucking heads up. And that's what I would like to say to Joan.

[01:13:26]

That's what I would like to see, if only for that her characters in the movie, everybody in the movie. I'm not saying I want to see Catherine Zeta Jones intolerable bastards, Jesus Christ.

[01:13:40]

So she's apparently loves an adoring attention. She says, adoring attention to the performance. I don't know. So she picks up three pieces of jewelry. Now, this is something she's very proud of. These represent the son, the star in the moon, these three pieces, OK? She purchased the jewelry at the Children's Museum in Indianapolis, where she works as a volunteer.

[01:14:08]

On Saturdays, she calls the three Knacker necklaces, quote, her potent jewelry.

[01:14:14]

OK, so it's strong. It's it's potent. Yeah. Yeah. It'll knock your socks off the island, pregnant. A woman from across the room. If I have this necklace on, you have no idea. It's on the moon, the stars. It's just boom. Look at you. You're six months along, by the way. I didn't just. It's not. Yeah, you're. Yeah, they skipped the prenatal. They're not going to help you.

[01:14:32]

It's going to come out walking. Don't you worry about it. I'm going to run out of there and then there's a hat. There's a hat. Now the hat will come up about 30 years later as well. The hat is insane.

[01:14:44]

The hat is a large, broad rimmed, floppy brown hat, has a leather band around it and is adorned with the star of David, an earring several blocks of Brian Thornton's hair. I'm not shitting you, Jimmy. In the band, there are no, like, stuck to it like like a fisherman's hat like that allures. She's got like a star of David, an earring and chunks of to locks of his hair. A peacock feather. Yeah, a yellow cord.

[01:15:17]

I don't know. Like an extension. Like the peace accord.

[01:15:21]

I don't know. Yeah. This is a yellow cord and a French cross, which I think is like the one with the circle around it. You like the like the Nordiques logo. I think it's like the floridly or whatever it is. Oh that. Yeah, I think that's that's not a French cross. I don't know what a French cross. That's a Florida. I don't know.

[01:15:37]

Is it the one we're like apartheid. Is that a French cross. I highly doubt it.

[01:15:41]

Now I don't know what the fuck it is either way. It's on our fucking hat.

[01:15:45]

OK, so apparently her friend said that her hat she wore constantly over the summer of nineteen eighty two always had this bat shit, had a crazy fucking that symbolized.

[01:15:59]

They looked at it as the symbol of her mental decline, like literally the more grown up shit to it.

[01:16:06]

If you saw her in the hat like every day that meant she was really fucking off the deep.

[01:16:10]

And that week like watch out right front cross could be a fleur de lis. James may be fucking bananas French with like a double cross, maybe either of the two bars, man. All right. I was like, she's got that shit on on her face.

[01:16:23]

You got more shit dangling off her hat. So this is weird. Yeah. It's an odd thing to wear. Yeah. No, every day. Yeah. You know, like an everyday hat. It's a little strange in there, like especially the hair, they're a little freaked out by their hair. They get the feather. Maybe that's interesting but sort of it's a little odd. And the star David that's fine if you want to put that on your hat.

[01:16:43]

But I don't know, she's not Jewish. That's why I'm having that with that old French cross. It's very strange. The whole thing's weird. So it's it's just it's a coexist hat from the nineteen eighty two. She made the first coexistent material. Unfortunately, it was a floppy brown hat that didn't catch on. Somebody took her vision and went bumper sticker with it and really cleaned up. But I want to say it's not her. It's got to be hideous.

[01:17:07]

Right. It's weird, it sounds like.

[01:17:09]

So he tells her at this point that now in late July and into like in the late weeks of July, he he's had an on and off sexual relationship.

[01:17:21]

Ryan and Marsha. Yeah, it's kind of on and off. And late July, they have another little sexual foray. OK, and we'll talk about that because it's a little weird what ends up happening. He tells her, though, that he lives with a guy that he's in a relationship with. Currently, he's he lives with her and that week, this is the last week of July, he's also he's had sex with her and he's been with the guy that he lives with.

[01:17:49]

And he also had sex with Shelley Smith.

[01:17:51]

Oh, the deceased woman. Gerald's wife is what he tells. This is what Brian tells Marsha.

[01:17:59]

So he's telling her like, yeah, like, you know, I'm banging everybody s in demand.

[01:18:04]

It's highly intimate. You don't play a harpsichord for nothing. It's true. As a kid, I said, how am I going to get that ass? And I was like, lead guitar. No, no. Tucumán See, everyone does that. You're going to stand out with the harpsichord. Yeah, that's what it is. So yeah.

[01:18:19]

So in late July, he stayed by Brian, stayed with Marsha in her apartment in Plainfield, where they this is where they had kind of a sexual relationship because they were going to some festival. He didn't want to kiss her. He told her that he couldn't kiss her. Yeah. And she said, well, you don't kiss anybody. And he said, well, I kissed the guy that I'm with. I'll kiss him, but I can't kiss you.

[01:18:42]

OK, so in his mind, it was like he it was almost, from what I gather, like he was in a relationship with this guy and he was, in his mind cheating on this guy because they're in a relationship.

[01:18:54]

They live together with this woman. But if he doesn't kiss her, then it's not cheating. So if you've seen The Inbetweeners movie, it's basically an act of, you know, it's Neil the whole time going, well, I didn't kiss her. So it's not cheating. I only put the tip in just a little bit. So it's not that's not cheating.

[01:19:10]

You know, prostitutes won't kiss guys because that is girlfriend stuff. And it's also really gross in a way to spread tons of disease, which we believe in. Yeah, not good. So they learned their lesson on that one a long fucking time ago. So that's how that works. He's not a prostitute, I say, but you're just getting people who don't sleeping with several people. The say, yeah, but I feel like this is his way of not cheating.

[01:19:31]

That's intimate sex is a different thing. So that's fine. And that's whatever your value system is in terms of cheating is up to. It's all relative to your relationship. Yeah. Whatever everybody does. So I don't know. I enjoy. So that's an interesting thing. He also said he could kiss.

[01:19:49]

He could kiss Shelley Smith though too, which was weird, but he couldn't kiss her. But he could Bangar. Yeah, OK.

[01:19:56]

And I'm sure he asked her to take her hat off first either way. So he tells her all of this, this is interesting, obviously, Saturday, July 31st, 1982, Brian and Marsha at the Eagle Creek Festival at Eagle Creek there. And so they get back to her apartment and he was staying overnight because they were going back to the festival the next day. And so that's why he was staying there, because they were going to a festival near her house.

[01:20:27]

And he said that this was the night that she told him that in her belief, OK, I don't know how to put this. He's Adam. Yeah. And she's Eve. And, you know, that's that's what she believes. Some days he's Jesus. Today he's Adam. They're going even farther back now and she's Eve. He later on would tell people that he thought this was just another way of her to try to get in his pants again.

[01:20:58]

So he said he rebuffed this particular advance. OK, so that's how this works. Now, Marsha believed Brian here at that point started telling him that he is the reincarnation of Jesus Christ. That's a fact.

[01:21:12]

And, you know, he is the he's the she's decided now. She figured it out first. She thought one thing, then she thought Adam and Eve. Now she's saying, OK, you're Jesus Christ, I'm the Virgin Mary and I want you I need you to be back in my womb.

[01:21:27]

That's what she tells him.

[01:21:28]

She now is his mother.

[01:21:30]

But also she wants to fuck him because that's how he can enter her womb. Oh, that's what she's saying. This is this is what happened to a human being. Said that to another human being with presumably a straight face or a very excitable or like that.

[01:21:49]

Right. Right. Now you get it. What do you think?

[01:21:53]

What the fact that he was like, oh, boy. Yeah, cool. So that'll drive you away from chicks forever. I'm going to go to sleep early. Yeah, I think because I got a big day tomorrow. So August 1st comes around nineteen eighty two. It's Martius. Forty fourth birthday today on August 1st. So she at this point decides that she, she talks to Shelley Smith later on that night and she talks to her on the phone earlier that day because they're going to go over Shelley and Gerald's house that night for a poetry reading and a harpsichord jam throwdown session.

[01:22:30]

Yeah. So Shelley asked her, do you really believe that you're the Virgin Mary? And she said she did. And Shelley said, well, I think you should see a psychiatrist probably, you know, because is a sane person, you know, is that over the phone to her?

[01:22:45]

Yeah. Yeah. I think you should probably see a psychiatrist if you really put in like a jokey way, like if you really think like I don't think she thought she was serious. She was like, if you really think that you should see a psychiatrist dude, like, you know, like you would tell someone if you don't want to be like, are you serious?

[01:22:59]

I will get a butterfly net right now because you are fucking nuts. That's crazy. So on her birthday, she gave birth on Marcia's birthday, Marsha gave Brian a present because that's what you do on your birthday. She's given presents.

[01:23:14]

Yeah. She gave you she gave him a book titled A Prince Who Knew His Fate.

[01:23:21]

And inside, she signed it to Brian in honor of my forty fourth birthday in the present lifetime.

[01:23:28]

She was in the present forty fourth in this present today.

[01:23:32]

Forty four more. Yes. And that's what happened, that slide. And she signed it. Now they go to the festival.

[01:23:42]

You give anybody anything on their birthday, you sign it, you're fucked.

[01:23:46]

That's all. That's weird. Yeah. Thank you for defacing this gift that you gave me. I appreciate it. Thank you. That's wonderful. I was really appreciated.

[01:23:54]

He had shot the fucking door.

[01:23:55]

How about that hanging on my wall frame so that that night they August 1st here she goes back to her apartment and she writes she writes a letter to her fifteen year old son in Albuquerque. She writes a letter to him saying, quote, Last Tuesday night at the folk dance, I met the most beautiful little girl. She is two and a half years old, sat with me, gazed at me, touched my face, balanced with me, help me play tin whistle, danced with me in my arms.

[01:24:25]

She was all excited about seeing some little girl happy. OK, so that's normal. It's a little creepy, but it's it's she's a nice, motherly Quaker lady. I'll give her that. That's why she wants to be excited about. Okay, that's fine. So. Oh my God. So the last time Brian and I'm sorry, the last time Brian and Shelley Smith had sex was July 28th in a wooded area outside Lafayette known as Black Rock.

[01:24:54]

This is really happening. That happened. This is not him spewing. You know, they say, yeah, they were really fucking out and stopped. The woods somewhere. This is kind of a torrid little affair here and then on the thirty first is when he had he ended up banging Marsia again the night where he originally rebuffed her. And then probably a couple of glasses of, you know, the of the wine that he turned from the tap.

[01:25:19]

They probably got it on now. So she writes to her son and another letter that thankfully never gets mailed.

[01:25:27]

So watch out, because this is not the letter you want to get from your from your mom if you're a 15 year old and a letter to her son.

[01:25:33]

She writes that she was banging Brian Thornton and that he got down on all fours and ran around the room making noises like an animal.

[01:25:42]

That's what she said to describe my. Imagine hearing your 44 year old mother is just having sex with some guy. Number one, you don't want to hear anything about that. Then she's getting into details of it being, like, weird and freaky. All right. He's getting down on all fours barking like a dog and shit. Wow. Like what? Ghostbusters hadn't even come out yet, you know what I'm saying? Like that. We didn't even have that to go on.

[01:26:05]

So, Delanoe, I don't even want to read the rest of this. Mom, I don't know what's about to happen. It's gross. Yeah, I'm throwing up and I'm never and opening another letter from my mother got cease contact. Mom, please. Then she wrote in her journal, quote, This will be a very strange day, a singular day, probably the last day of my earthly life. Tonight, I meet the lady of illusion with the flowing red hair, her Jolene my mission as I perceive it, chopping the head off a redheaded creature.

[01:26:35]

Oh, that's what she said.

[01:26:36]

She knows she keeps that. Yeah. She said no one else. She kept that. And that's her own. That's her own. She also wrote that she went around that day and cleaned the eighteen mirrors in the living room of her Plainfield apartment. Who the fuck has eighteen mirrors in their living room. Yeah, that is weird. In your house all together. This is in in a living room of an apartment. Wow. That seems like overkill on the mirrors.

[01:27:01]

Yeah.

[01:27:02]

So yeah. She said too. She talked to Shelly on the phone earlier that month and said quote, I once said that I hope to write a sequel to the story of John the Baptist. Now I know I do not have to write it. I and two others are going to live it instead. This is what she said. It's about a lioness, a leopard and a lamb. I have always known about the lioness who would do battle for the lamb.

[01:27:29]

I had not known until this night with whom I would be engaged in battle.

[01:27:33]

This is what she said. Yeah.

[01:27:35]

So that night of the Jesus Christ of August 1st, they go to the polls. Brian and Marsha go to the poem Poetry Reading Jam Session at Gerald and Shelley Smith's apartment, Shelley Smith and Marsha. This is the first time they meet face to face. They've talked on the phone really intimately about this type of shit.

[01:27:52]

She's going to write about John the Baptist. She's never seen this woman in her life, never saw as they live in a different town. She lives in Plainfield and the and the Smiths live in Lafayette. So they don't really run into each other. This is the first night like, oh, I'll take you over to meet the Smiths, who you've been talking to on the phone. Just on the phone.

[01:28:10]

Yeah, but I'm Mary. People used to just do that, though. They just talk on the phone because that was the only incoming anything in the house. There's no fucking Internet or social media on it now. That's what I mean. It's the same thing. So they meet for the first time. It's just a small get together in their apartment. You know, a few people, they're not that many, that sort of thing. Apparently the gathering breaks up and it's around two o'clock in the morning.

[01:28:33]

It kind of breaks up. Late night, two a.m., Gerald Smith, he went to bed early. They're out there harpsichord and reading poetry. He's sleeping because he's got to be up to something in the morning to go to go through a paper to get the papers out at three so he gets out of bed to get to work. And he found Marsha and Shelley engage in a conversation in the living room hanging out in there. So he goes out, talks to them, says hello to everybody, everybody's, you know, whatever.

[01:28:58]

And then while he's getting ready, everybody leaves, Brian leaves, Marsha leaves, a couple other people leave. Everybody's gone. Gerald continues to get ready. And Shelley goes and lays down in bed because it's by now it's almost three o'clock in the morning. So he leaves about three o'clock. Gerald does. And he says that Shelley was in bed asleep when he left. He says he closed the door carefully but didn't lock it once again. What what are you talking about?

[01:29:22]

So he returns home that night and we know what happened there. Now, what the fuck happened while he was there? Well, let's start with Marsha saying this. Quote, I wore star and moon and necklace. I wore star and moon and necklaces to opal earrings and a star of David Ering.

[01:29:42]

I knew I had to wear the jewelry to signify who I am, signify who I am now, who was the lady of illusion?

[01:29:50]

Yeah, she just walked in the front door of the Smith's apartment. She came back about six a.m. so she went home, came back, came back about 6:00 a.m., went through the front door and went to a. Downstairs bathroom first didn't go to anybody there. She took all of her clothes off, got completely naked in the bathroom.

[01:30:08]

Yeah, OK. Gets completely naked, then proceeds to the kitchen where she grabs a paring knife.

[01:30:14]

Now, a paring knife is a little tiny knife. It's a little fucker to get on top. Yeah, you got a little paring knife. So she grabs one of those completely nude, by the way, walking around the house of the paring knife.

[01:30:26]

She goes to the bedroom where she finds Shelley asleep on her back in bed, OK? She walks over, kind of stands there for a minute and then just stabs her in the throat with the knife boy right in the throat. It's severed an artery. So as you can imagine, there is a mother lode of blood. I mean, it is wild, but she doesn't die right away. She just awakens with blood spraying out and looking to survive and fight and struggle.

[01:30:55]

So which is frightening here. Doesn't kill her. Obviously. Shelley screams out, oh, my God, you're hurting me. And obviously, what she does, she tries to get out of the bed and get out of the bedroom and run away to Shelley. But Marcia catches up to our and slashes her throat repeatedly with the paring knife, just attacks her throat with the paring knife until she finally she finally gets her down during this whole thing by Marcia's got some some scratches and things on her, too.

[01:31:27]

And and Marcia is hacking away at Porcelli here. So apparently she said she pulled she pulls Shelley Smith through a bathroom and into the hallway where Shelley collapses from an artery being severed and being stabbed, a much other time still from loss of blood following the blood following the collapse there.

[01:31:49]

She is not moving, Shelley. Real. Ah, I'm sorry. Marsha realizes this paring knife isn't really the best, most efficient weapon that she could have. So, yeah.

[01:31:56]

So she goes to the kitchen to get a better knife. A boy, you know, got to have that. So she grabs a bigger knife. She grabs a few nights because she doesn't know which one's going to do the job here. So with a butcher knife, she attempts to saw Shelley's head off by now with a power saw, not with an axe or something that is meant for this with a butcher knife. She tries to sort of just cut it like it's a rump roast through this poor woman's neck.

[01:32:22]

She can't get it off, though. It's hard with a knife. Once you get to the you know, the muscles are thick. And then once she gets a spinal cord and spine, there's a lot of stuff in there. It's not easy. Yeah. So she gets a little pissed off and looks around, see what the fuck am I going to do now? So she grabs a large mirror that's there. It's a big giant plate glass mirror.

[01:32:43]

She grabs it, brings it over and tries to snap at her neck like a guillotine.

[01:32:49]

Holy shit. The problem is a mirror, though, doesn't have sharp glass edges. A mirror has a frame so the mirror doesn't cut her head off the mirror. Just it just causes the mirror to break and shatter in one thousand pieces of plate glass everywhere.

[01:33:04]

Plate glass mirror. So Jesus got. Yeah.

[01:33:09]

So Marcia. Yeah. Then grabs a chunk of broken mirror glass and tries to several tries to saw Shelley's head off with a piece of shattered mirror glass. OK, think about just the animalistic ness of that. Yeah. I'm going to grab this. Scharper is going to get me to lock me up and I'm just going to fucking hack at something that is crazy. She can't get the head completely off. Yeah. So she gives up and goes back downstairs.

[01:33:43]

Where. Back into the bathroom where she showers up and then puts her clean clothes back on that she had before. And yeah, she said that there was it was only a little bit of skin and muscle that had held Shelley's head on her body. And she later on would say about it actually stabbing her. She said that she thought to herself, quote, Is this a human body? It felt like rubber. I didn't expect red blood. I had to take her head off or she'd rejuvenate into a snake.

[01:34:10]

Oh, boy.

[01:34:11]

So de Jesus, Mike, she's so delusional. So what does she do now? Run away. Now she sits down, make some phone calls at the house at their apartment, sits down on the phone bill, says that she calls two calls. She calls seven minute call to Plainfield for her one son and then a 53 minute call to Albuquerque, New Mexico.

[01:34:32]

To another kid, to another kid, an hour, an hour.

[01:34:36]

So she got there at six. I mean, she's pushing to where Jerrold's almost going to run into her when he comes home. Fifty three minute call. This is right.

[01:34:45]

She's the phone is right within his line of Shelley. I mean, it's right there. You can see her, she tells her and she tells both her sons that she did it. She says, oh yeah, I just wanted to call and tell you that I killed I killed the serpent, you know?

[01:34:58]

So that happened. Killed a serpent, and currently I'm waiting for Christ to come and chop the serpent into 12 pieces because that's what he does. So I'm just going to hang. And that's why she was hanging and making the phone call, because she said she had to wait for Jesus to come and chopped the body up so she knew that the snake was dead.

[01:35:16]

As a kid, you, like, freaked out or are you just like my mom really lost it?

[01:35:20]

I don't that's that's what I mean. I would assume as your kids, you know, your mom isn't right. That's why you live with your dad. But not that you live with your dad. Everybody lives with their dad. Because I to live with my dad doesn't mean my mom was crazy. But if you're one of your parents was nuts, you'd go probably want to go live with the other one. So I'm getting out. Yeah. So she also called Brian as well.

[01:35:39]

And but Brian's roommate wouldn't wake him up because it was like six thirty in the morning and he was he's like, I'm not fucking waking her up.

[01:35:46]

He's been out get ass all night. I yeah, I can't do it. She did say to her son, quote, Since I couldn't get the head off, I had failed my mission, OK? I had to get the head off. I failed. So then she left her, left the house, left the apartment and went to her car. And while she got in her car, she noticed that her hands were cut to shit because she was using broken pieces of plate glass as fucking weapons.

[01:36:08]

So, yeah, in doing that, she's she goes, oh, well, I better go to the hospital. So she stops at a nearby hospital and they remove glass out of her hands and fix her all up and bandage her. And she drove around Lafayette for a few hours, just drove around hanging out. Then she stopped at Brian's house at about noon, stop by. You know, he wasn't he wasn't home. So instead of leaving, she just sat on the porch swing and took a nap.

[01:36:34]

Yeah, because she's exhausted by now. You know, she's had a lot of hacking and everything else tonight. He returned home about eight thirty I'm sorry, when Gerald returned home and he discovered the body, he the police, when they did their investigation, they obtained all the names of the persons who had been at the home that night, especially. And Gerald told them, you know, everybody else out there, the police were conducting the investigation while they were in the apartment, you know, doing the crime scene.

[01:36:59]

Brian called and asked to speak to Shelly and they said, well, not quite because she's dead. So that's going to happen there. And they said, would you mind coming down and talking to us? You're one of the people that are on our list because you were here last night anyway. So he said, sure, he went and talked to him. He said, I'm not a I'm not a resident of here. I live somewhere else, blah, blah, blah.

[01:37:18]

He's in. He said that, you know, he told he reiterated who was at the party because they were trying to make sure they got everybody. So two plainclothes officers in an unmarked car were dispatched to Brian's home and they introduced themselves and said they were investigating Shelly Smith's death. And they asked Marsha because she's out on the porch swing if she'd be willing to be interviewed. And she said, sure. And she got in the police car. There's no she then cougher, there's no guns drawn or anything.

[01:37:47]

She asked if she was under arrest and she was told that she wasn't. Then they you know, they asked her about, was she there? And, you know, that sort of thing. Was she there the night before? So this is this is pretty fucked up here. So anyway, Marsha, they search her, her body, her stuff. They find a photograph of Shelly as she was found in her apartment. And it is the front of her of her.

[01:38:17]

It's the front. You can see her. She's got like dirt and plant vines and shit all over and mirror pieces. It's a fuckin mess. Apparently, she took a goddamn Polaroid. She has it with her. Yeah. Just to prove to Jesus that she did it. I don't know what the hell it's for. So they said she stopped in the emergency room about seven o'clock for cuts on her hand. That's when they talk to them. So when they talk to Marsha, they give her her Miranda rights.

[01:38:43]

She signs a waiver. She says that she was at the Smith home until about two a.m., but she doesn't know anything about the killing or anything about it. They said, well, why are your hands all cut up and bandaged and bleeding? And she said it was a result of a fall on the brick sidewalk at their house. Right. Fell down. And, you know, just so he ever go hard on a fucking harp? Oh, it'll Ripia.

[01:39:02]

Yeah. Play play the harp a while and then we'll get back, play the dulcimer and then we'll talk. OK, so then they let her use the bathroom and let her have drinks and everything. They kind of played her soft baby, then come hard on her with the with the interrogation. She asked again if she was under arrest and they said no, no, not under arrest at all. The they're recording this whole thing. And this is when her weird shit starts to come out on the tape.

[01:39:28]

They she said that she said that she was one of the first few people to see her and all that sort of thing included were in her purse were letters with threats against the lady of illusion and the necessity of severing the head of the evil serpent. Because you got to do that. Obviously, he wow. She also provided a pretty shitty explanation of her activities from two o'clock in the morning until she sought medical attention as well.

[01:39:57]

So it was that when she talks here. She says, look, yes, I'm a 44 year old mother, I'm a Christian, but what you don't understand is I am also five thousand seven hundred forty three years old. I'm the mother of the universe and I'm an instrument of Yahweh.

[01:40:17]

OK, so sure. In case you were wondering, that's actually what's happening here. The mother of the universe. Mother of the year. Yeah. Yeah. You know, put me in charge of the universe is 6000 years old. Well, clearly that's what you say. Yes. That's them up. And clearly, yeah, she's really getting down to the letter of the law here.

[01:40:34]

And she said that she describes her world as a place where, quote, where the beast and the angel coexist, where the beautiful and the terrifying and the terrifying are interlaced even at the same times. This is what she's telling the cops. And they're like, do we even need the right?

[01:40:55]

Can we just high five? We got her right this obviously. All right.

[01:40:58]

There's two guys in white coats. We're going to come in and grab her and take her away. Well, Benny Hill music plays Right. Because this is fucking bonkers. There's like, you know, sane and insane. Guilty. And is there a bonkers?

[01:41:09]

Because if that's it, you know, if there's an actual case closed, we know God, we surely have somebody that's capable of murder. Then she told them that Brian Thornton is Christ. Yep. And that he Shelley had to be killed. Don't you understand anything Shelley had to be killed to prevent because she was preventing Brian from realizing he was Christ. God, she's holding him back. He's the DA. She says thou. But she said, I didn't kill a woman.

[01:41:40]

I killed a snake. I know what I did. In fact, she said it's not OK. She said it wasn't just a snake. It was the devil's lead snake, the head of the snake of the devil. So the ASIC. So we thank her. Yeah, I think so. I think that's what she's going for.

[01:41:57]

Like, you're welcome. I killed the devils head snake. What the fuck? She also did she let them search her stuff and all that sort of shit here and they found the letter to her son with all the weird shit in it. Then she starts describing how she did it in her own words. She said, quote, I took her by the hair and she said she got out of bed. We struggled. I just remember twirling around. I just kept shouting Yahweh's ways kingdom come.

[01:42:25]

Oh, now that's the other thing. She's nude. Yeah. Imagine waking up to this. She's nude, trying to stab you, screaming fucking crazy religious shit. Woke you up by plunging the lime knife in your thigh.

[01:42:39]

This is the craziest shit I've ever heard in my life. Yeah. You wanted to slice lemons for the iced tea and this is what you get. Oh, boy. I shouted it over and over again because I knew it was the battle I was destined for. This is what she's been trained for. She said by then she was down. I had to saw the base of the neck, one of the knives broke because there's a knife that she actually broke.

[01:43:01]

They fucking broke the handle off of it doing this. I went into the kitchen, found another like another knife. Later there was a big mirror with a wooden frame. I dropped it down on her neck. The mirror broke. Then I started using a big piece of mirror to saw the head of the snake had to be taken off die. Clearly, this is in her recorded statement.

[01:43:20]

I figured I had not done a very good job. I recalled something about crushing or smiting the head of the serpent. And so she said, Your way puts within my reach the things I'm supposed to use. I just have to reach out for them. So I went over and got a big plant and I dropped it on the head. I had I had I then tried to pull her head off by the hair cut. So, yeah, she just tried to pull it off.

[01:43:44]

I put your feet on her shoulder. Yeah. Just tried to pull it off by her hair and he said still it just didn't work. And so she said, well, I guess I'm a failure. I'll call my kids. But wow. So they found the knife with the broken blade that they believe was the first initial attack. Five other knives were found near Shelley, but could not be submitted into evidence because the Lafayette police failed to establish a proper chain of custody.

[01:44:10]

God damn it. God damn it, that shit kills me, boy. It's like I get that.

[01:44:16]

That's not what you do every day. I get that you don't have crazy crime scenes like this every day, but you're I mean, speeding tickets and all that, whatever. But like, this is your main job. This is the stuff we actually give a fuck about. We need you for this is the main thing. All the rest of the shit can fall aside. If you solved every murder, people wouldn't give two fucks about anything else happening.

[01:44:37]

Every fucking murder gets solved. It's amazing. One hundred percent, you kill me, you're going to fucking jail. People will be OK with everything else. Don't fuck this shit. I gladly pay the speeding ticket.

[01:44:45]

Yeah, this is this is bad. The chain of custody kind of type of thing. There's no excuse for that, that there's a procedure that you didn't follow and it's every force has has a procedure in place and try to to try to do.

[01:44:56]

Yeah. So I don't know if that's a supervisory problem or what, but people are actually so. Prized, though, apparently people that knew her before this is out of character, completely New Marsia, a new Marsia, they don't get it.

[01:45:08]

Paul Hardin's a guy who is he used to be a prosecutor somewhere in the state. He said that he's known her most of his life. And he said, quote, Is this the Marsia, her healed? I know. It just seems totally out of character. Her Aunt Ruth also said, quote, I'm just stunned. Our family has never had anything like this happen before. We're quiet.

[01:45:29]

Quaker's If you had this several times in your family, your family super fucked it up.

[01:45:34]

Well, I would say that would be a problem. This is normal run of the mill or daggered the Chitto better. Well, being done out of the ordinary dad butchers people all the time. No big deal. So this marshal wants bail. Oh, boy. She wants bail. They the state failed to get her bail set at five million dollars. Her attorneys asked for fifty five thousand.

[01:45:55]

It's a little less.

[01:45:58]

Yeah. So she they ask her, this is a pretrial thing with a hearing for the bail. They asked her, quote, Were you ever arrested for anything? And she says, speeding. Does that count? And the judge says, quote, I think the evidence of her history and her life and times in Indiana do indicate that she will appear. But that wasn't the issue.

[01:46:20]

Also, that was she'll probably show up. But that's not the that's not the problem. She said if she was released, she intended to live with her parents. And the prosecutor said that, you know, that, you know, a woman might not be with her parents, that if she did get out, it would be somewhere that we would designate. And they go back and forth. And she said, well, quote, My mother said, the house is crowded.

[01:46:41]

You know, we don't really need a decent enough room for you. Ya way fucking Christ, the serpent lady, your hat. There's just a lot going on now. We don't have room for. Sorry, it's a little crowded already. A little crowded. Yeah.

[01:46:55]

So the the judge said, is there any other reason that they might not want you there. I don't know. Cut a lady's head off. Probably nobody really wants that around. And then she says, quote, They probably think I'm a different person than I used to be. And he asked if she thought that she could get her job back at the Indiana State Library. I cut a lady's head off and it's in every fucking newspaper. Do you think I can get that?

[01:47:17]

Could O.J. get his job back with NBC Sports on June 30th? No, he couldn't because his fucking wife had no head. That's the problem. You can't go get your job back afterwards. Well, you're up for a fucking murder one. They never made another naked gun. No, done. Everything's over.

[01:47:34]

Her answer was, quote, I think not. But, yeah, that was the only thing there. She said, quote, I wasn't intending to work. I was intending on living in seclusion and preparing my defense, which is what she would need to do. So they said also that it's not clear what extent her parents and her parents are willing to offer assistance in terms of money or anything like that or helping with the bond. And she's also pleaded insanity at this point.

[01:47:58]

She's going to plead not guilty by reason of insanity. So they said the insanity charged with the murder and the risk of non-appearance. So, you know, this is probably, you know, she's up there saying this is a death penalty crime. We're not going to let her go wander around. This is basically they also said a couple of things like we get that she's like a librarian. But like, if this was just some dude who worked at a gas station, you would say no bail in two seconds.

[01:48:22]

Wouldn't even be fucking talking about it. Just because she's a librarian doesn't mean she's not trying to cut people's heads off. This is crazy. So the pretrial, she pleads not guilty by reason of insanity.

[01:48:33]

She will not wear shoes, ever will not wear shoes. She shows up at court with no fucking shoes on. I have pictures of her walking on the sidewalk outside with no shoes on. She's in the court. If they make her wear shoes into the court, soon as she sits down, she takes her shoes off. No shoes will not wear shoes in the courtroom, which is probably there's a minimal that's a dead giveaway. Shirt and shoes required.

[01:48:57]

It's court. It's not an Arby's. Can't even go to a gas station. No. Yeah, no shoes. You can't go to Arby's and they sell poison. You can go here allegedly.

[01:49:07]

I'm sure there's something poisonous in there. But yeah, you can't go as my gut to a shit. Yeah. You can't go get diarrhea, but you can.

[01:49:15]

That's insane. So she pleads that the judge rules that she is competent to stand trial after psychiatrists offer all sorts of opinions. Really? Oh yeah. Some psychiatrists are in there. Judge says, no, no, you're good to stand trial guy last week.

[01:49:30]

Get what that's the eighty two was. Every articles like this is a bad time to plead insanity. Apparently there was a big uproar publicly about, quote, bullshit insanity defenses. So this was like any time you plead insanity, like write. Right. This was this was the start of that. This is when we stopped it. When we went into a period of not believing anybody who was mentally ill. It was just all bullshit. There is no such thing as that.

[01:49:55]

That was like a thing of that we went through for a while. If you murder someone, you can't be crazy. Actually, that's a crazy thing to do. I would check that first, right? Wouldn't that be like the No. Yeah. Number one, what's the evidence that you're crazy? Well, try to cut a lady's head off, number one. That's pretty crazy, right? Yeah.

[01:50:12]

And then you go into the white stuff and you say, how many years old? Yeah, that right there. I think it's a giveaway. Yeah. At her hearing, she also said this quote, It was written two thousand five hundred years ago. It would be at Lebannon that that's where they moved the trial because of publicity, Lebannon. So she said they knew it.

[01:50:36]

Twenty five hundred years ago, it was predicted that this trial would be in Lebanon, but they knew it is always will human beings have no knowledge of my world? They shouldn't meddle. I am not a human being. I am an animal.

[01:50:50]

I became an animal in March just saying I don't disagree.

[01:50:54]

But she's basically saying you have no, like, dominion over me because I'm not I'm not human. Like, you can say what you want, but I'm a fucking God animal. Like, clearly this is not going to stick. Oh, boy. You know, this is it's better than having a good lawyer, being a God animal.

[01:51:09]

Well, then for the time you're here, we're going to hang on to you will say so there's a shitload of motions. Basically, they want her journal to be kept in the state, believes it could link her to the practice of what they call, quote, white witchcraft. Oh, I suppose that's like an island, which kind of.

[01:51:26]

Yeah, that's her. That's a white lady in Indiana who thinks that she's a fucking animal or some being. Okay.

[01:51:34]

They said that this is so crazy, man.

[01:51:37]

It's a hundred and twenty five handwritten pages that I would love to read. Oh, boy. And also letters written to her kids that she didn't mail all the shit. The judge denied the motion saying at one point the state's testimony has not convinced me that the state is entitled to those documents. And they said that some of the papers were quite personal. They said a lot of the papers were ramblings that disturbed him.

[01:51:59]

This is the prosecutor said he said it wasn't wasn't brought out why any of the anybody had seen the journal and the judge was asking about that. So the judge said have have we been given any reason to believe that it may be a ritual type killing? So the prosecutor is like, yes, yeah, that's what it is. Sure. They said that also they because this is the first time this came out recently, Marcia had sacrificed what she called sacrificed her cat.

[01:52:29]

She had killed her cat recently as a sacrifice to a god of some kind. Oh, boy. So they were like that was part of it. She said. And also the police detective that was there testified to what she said as well to him.

[01:52:43]

He said, yes, she felt that Hitler had been reincarnated into a cat and that was the reason for killing the cat.

[01:52:51]

OK, she thought her cat was Hitler, ladies and gentlemen. Yeah, I give up. I give up. That that that should be our last episode as well. We've never I said pocket Robin. That's crazy. But did he think his cat was Hitler before he kept the fucking hat in his pocket?

[01:53:10]

Some punishment, if that's what you're reincarnated as. My cat is Hitler. I mean, every cat's kind of Hitler.

[01:53:16]

Yeah, OK. What's the craziest thing a person could shout? Yeah, like if someone walked up to you on a street and said, my cats, Hitler, that's the most. What? That makes no sense. My cat is Hitler. That's the craziest thing anybody has ever said. My cats, Hitler. So I killed it. OK. Oh, and then that part. Oh that part makes it more. Oh my. But don't worry I got him.

[01:53:41]

Yeah.

[01:53:42]

And then then also the prosecutor said that she's involved in white witchcraft belonging to a coven of witches, which we never hear anything about that again. I think they were just talking shit to get the journal. And then they they talked about the the shit in the journal. They talked about it in the journal. It said, you know, there was a lady of illusion and Brian Thornton was being held in bondage and being kept from his quote, held in bondage.

[01:54:04]

That's what it says, being kept away from his right place at the top of the universe. Food shame. The Journal also mentioned Shelley and in the same references with Ladies of Illusion and all this shit. And Shelly had strawberry blonde hair, which is close enough to read for Marcia. That matches up just fine for her woman.

[01:54:25]

Things are cats. Hitlerjugend, that's what I mean. And that's Hitler and his strawberry blonde. His rabbit close enough.

[01:54:32]

That vanilla ice cream sure tastes a lot like strawberry. Who cares? You're cats, Hitler. The name of this episode should be. She thought her cat was Hitler. That's the end of it. That should be crazy enough for anybody. My cat is Hitler. That sounds like a bad 50s movie. My cat is. My cat was reincarnated Hitler. Oh, right. So then they talk about she doesn't want to give up her pubic hair. Why do they need a sample of her.

[01:54:59]

Had hair, pubic hair, blood and a footprint sample, but she said why? And they said because she was nude in the house. So we want to make sure that the pubes we picked up that she was shedding are hers.

[01:55:10]

Tube shedding, Hitler cat gilling fucking. I don't even know, man. Crazy hat wearing is against so much bullshit. Just fallen out. Imagine her nude with the hat pack in a way that's frightening.

[01:55:22]

So that's even weirder and weirder I think sir. And like the it's the hat that like Robin Hood wore like as a disguise, you know, the big one. It's that one kind of. Yeah.

[01:55:32]

Like that picture and either like that or like the one. What's his name. Where's the fucking. Oh my God. What the hell's the name. I totally blank out here. He always in men in tights when he has to be crazy. Farrell is wearing at the god damn fucking Will Ferrell.

[01:55:49]

Which Ferrell. What are we doing. New York accent you asked. Oh never mind. I have no accent. You asked to get rid of it. That's the other thing. Yeah. I get nitpicked for words and I'm like, I must say ten million words in episode I.

[01:56:11]

If you heard like my family and stuff, I am pretty mild. I have Jimmy Caveh. Not pretty, not unreasonable. Tone down ninety three percent. So if once in a while I say horrible or orange or whatever the fuck in a weird way shut the fuck up about it especially where are you from.

[01:56:30]

I bet you you have a weird accent to anybody. It says y'all I don't want to hear shit about my horrible because at least horrible is a fucking word anyway. So Ferrell who's Pharrell?

[01:56:42]

Never mind. All right. So I want to see the hats.

[01:56:47]

So but I'm thinking of like like what's his dad like a fucking Brendan Fraser movie? Oh, like a Mountie hat.

[01:56:56]

Like a Mountain Dew. I don't know. Yeah, yeah. Doctor, not doctor. Doctor, I'm not going to Dudley do right. I'm not going to try to come up with names of shows or anything. That's my fault. I have. Well I know I've slept like six hours all week and that's my fault so I can't come up with things. So there you go. Can't come up with names of movies.

[01:57:16]

You can't give me clues to the movies and then have me just throw work. That's because then I'll agree with you then we're really in trouble. So Dr. Doolittle, I'm sure Dr. Doolittle, he's a mouth. You talk to animals with a big hat on, so. Oh, my God. So they say they have a confession from her. They have all this shit. They, you know, all this. So the trial comes around.

[01:57:38]

Insanity is the thing. They have to decide for possible verdicts.

[01:57:41]

Guilty, not guilty. Not guilty by reason of insanity. Guilty, but mentally ill. Yeah, OK. I would probably go for the fourth one on that one. Feels right. I feel like you definitely out there and sure she's guilty so I'll give them both. She knew what she was doing but she's nuts. She so the state wants a guilty verdict verdict. But they said they could live with guilty with mentally mentally ill because it's basically the same thing.

[01:58:05]

It means basically if you're they'll put you in an institution. But as soon as you're saying, then they'll put you in jail. Yeah. You're not going you don't get to go free then. Or if it's just not guilty by reason, not guilty by reason of insanity, that's a different story. They can put you in an institution like our one guy. But then once they feel you're healed to you feel you go, yeah, you can they can release you to the street.

[01:58:24]

Never the jail. This is. Yeah, that would be not guilty by reason of insanity in Indiana anyway.

[01:58:30]

So, yeah, during court she sat really weird. No shoes on. She would smile. I don't know where she would stare at the ceiling for a while. She would talk excitedly and too loud with her attorneys about case strategy. She there was an artist for the TV station, like sketching the trial, and she was like reaching out toward him and shit like like she was on acid or something.

[01:59:00]

I don't know what the fuck is going on here. The jurors ask a question. This is seems weird. The jurors ask a question. They said, hey, this is kind of complicated. There's a bunch of people can we take notes? So we have like so we know what the fuck we're doing because, like, I couldn't tell the story without my notes. You can't just, you know, like, can we take notes when we go back in there?

[01:59:18]

We can refer to them. And the judge said you're allowed to take notes, but quote, The law in Indiana is very screwy, is what he said. You may take notes, but you may not rely on them during your deliberations. That's the state of the law in Indiana right now. You can take notes, but then you can't look at them when you need them.

[01:59:35]

What is the point? If you write it down, maybe you'll remember it more morphos. But I mean, you can't refer to them. You can't refer to you can't be like, oh, who is this one?

[01:59:45]

Let me go. Oh OK. Was that you can't do that. Wow. Which is the point of taking notes so you can refer back to. Remember it's, that's what the judge was like. It's the dumbest law ever. But that's the law. Who wrote that. An idiot. So it's a prosecution here. They want to. They're trying to make it a love triangle gone wrong. That's what they have to do here. They're trying to convince the jury that Marcia was a librarian and that she's not crazy.

[02:00:08]

She's, quote, crazy like a fox. Instead, this is all a big load of shit. And she just wanted to kill just Shelley because she was jealous of Brian and all that, which I don't really that part of it, maybe.

[02:00:19]

But she was loopy way before Shelley, before he knew that she knew of anything about Shelley and Brian love rectangle because there's a there's a do another guy there to that poor guy fucking delivering papers and all that shit.

[02:00:31]

So I don't know his boyfriend that he was the other the other guy to another one. Jesus Christ. A life size of five cider pentagram. There you go. It's a love pentagram to noctis a love pentagram. That's what this episode is called, an alleged love pentagram.

[02:00:47]

So he he they tell the jury here, this is her attorney, that she was only Marsh's attorney says she was only, quote, an instrument of your way and saw herself as killing a serpent and not a human being. So you've got to explain that to the jury. He said the crime in the murder in Indiana requires that you knowingly or intentionally kill a human being. If you if you're knowingly and intentionally kill a serpent, then you weren't you weren't knowingly killing a human being were different.

[02:01:17]

So that means you're crazy. So he's trying to really parse that out. Her sons testify for the state. One of them do hear that she talked to one of her sons, Seth, here. He said that when his mother called him about the murder, she said she killed a woman, didn't mention shit about a snake. Oh. So he was like, they're like, that's interesting. Then they get Brian to testify. Boy, does he have some stories, as you can imagine.

[02:01:43]

Yeah, he testified. He said that he he was mad at her and they were asking if, like, are you doing this to get back at her for hurting Shelly? Are you testifying? I can testify because they asked me to testify.

[02:01:56]

They said that would you like to hurt her? And he said, yes, I would. Obviously, I'm mad at her.

[02:02:01]

And so she said, quote, My feeling is that she shouldn't be permitted to ever live in a free society again, is what Brian responded.

[02:02:09]

So they said, isn't it a fact that you hate and loathe Marsha and that you do anything that you could to do anything that you could to do hurt to Marsha? And he paused for ten seconds and then replied, Yes, which is fucking great.

[02:02:24]

That's a great reply. He laid it a he thought about it is like, no, yeah, I do want her. I fucking died. Don't like her. She's an awful person who killed my friend. What a fucking dick. So she smiled broadly while he was testifying like glowingly.

[02:02:38]

Like there's my guy. Like your kid was just got to hit a triple in Little League. That's a she had a big smile like I taught him that Jesus did it.

[02:02:45]

Look at him. I know how basketball baskets klau. I'm good. Yeah. He crawled around on the floor and barked.

[02:02:54]

It's a jury of six men and six women, by the way. So it's even on that score. Then her attorney asked Brian if the philosophy in the Satanic Bible is that when someone kills a friend, you avenge that death. And he agreed that it was he's not a Satanist, but he knows a cult shit, knows stuff like that. So he said, yes, it was. And they said, quote, Aratani said, isn't that and you're and what you're trying to do is avenge that death, isn't it?

[02:03:21]

And he said, no, he's not trying to avenge the death. He said they also had to bring it out, that he lives with a view. Is it true that you live with a male lover because it's Indiana in 1982. So we're going to try to discredit you completely by he's touched a penis.

[02:03:36]

So clearly nothing nothing he says can be believed, obviously.

[02:03:42]

Yeah. Oh, completely not credible. Yeah. He says that he had they also he testified that he had intercourse with Shelley, with Marsha and this man in the same week. And he also testified that, yes, he was committed to an insane, insane asylum when he was ten because among other things, for strange religious beliefs. And yeah, that was that. And he said he never told Marsha that he was an angel or Christ or anything of that nature.

[02:04:11]

They discussed like angels and weird shit.

[02:04:14]

You talk about after a couple of glasses, my words, they were her words. Yeah. But he's like, I didn't say I'm Jesus, by the way. Yes, there's angels and I am one. Then they talked about their sex and the lawyer said, quote, Isn't it true that you growled at one point to Brian?

[02:04:30]

And he says, I might have growled, This is a hilarious conversation I've got at this point. She starts laughing. Marcia's laughing at the defense table, which is, again, super weird and not what you want to do. Then they referred to a deposition he gave to the police where Brian said, quote, I went out of my mind. I felt like I was turning into some kind of animal and I felt like I had no control over this.

[02:04:56]

And then they asked about getting down on all. Bores and running around the room after sex, and he he said, quote, I remember crawling on the floor, but I don't remember running around, as you call it.

[02:05:07]

So he's like now and then he agreed that at one point he asked Marcia why she had, quote, let the beast come out of him.

[02:05:15]

I am not in a devil way. In a sexual way. Right. Why do you let me get out on my fucking train? Because once I get out, fuck it, I'll fuck everybody. And now, damn, the gates are open and the fuck bulls are running through the prairie, you know, and the king.

[02:05:30]

Oh, damn fucking Stein is run free. What does this have to do with murdering somebody? There is a possibility and credibility and embarrassment. I don't ever want to.

[02:05:43]

So we listen to a podcast. Listen, we heard you put your balls in a ponytail. Go.

[02:05:46]

I put that on there. Yeah. So next comes the psychiatrist. This is an interesting lot. Larry Davis. He's a psychiatrist, court appointed. He said that Marcia is, quote, very delusional, very disturbed and very psychotic. She believed that she was killing the Devils chief snake instead of a woman. Yeah. Here's the profile that he compiled as a child. She saw a rocking chair rock without anyone in it and recently sat in her bunk at the Tippecanoe County jail that it shook in a regular rhythm that couldn't have been caused by the building's founda of our vibrations.

[02:06:25]

So weird things happen, she told a psychiatrist. Now that in nineteen sixty four she was in New York where she was picked up by three Jewish men and had sex with them.

[02:06:38]

I believe that she got so there was a yeah, they ran a Jewish train on her and she says that after that she had to have like a cleansing ceremony because of the implication. I don't know man. She went into this whole thing about a cleansing ceremony where she would seek the cleansing, right? Oh, she did the cleansing right later. We'll get to that in a second. He also said that, I quote, to to a somewhat unique degree, Marshall was convinced the world, while I was convinced the world she was experiencing was completely accurate.

[02:07:10]

Marshall described to me seeing Shelly and recognizing her and the profile, recognizing in her profile the picture of a snake. She indicated that she went into the Smith's bedroom and attacked with the intent of cutting the head off the snake. She told me, quote, As everyone knows, you have to cut a snake's head off to kill it. She said she was surprised the blood was red rather than green or blue. Yeah, she said he said the behavior she described was the task that Yahweh assigned her to chop off the head of the devil snake.

[02:07:41]

Duh. Yeah. Yes. So he says that this it's his opinion that she is very insane, obviously. Now Marcia testifies. Really? Oh, my goodness. No shoes and all. She's going to talk. She's going to talk. She was asked to say her name and age. Yeah.

[02:07:58]

And he didn't get off the fucking stand. God damn it. Never mind. She said sure. And then in her nice voice, she said, quote, Mars, the God of War five thousand seven hundred forty three years old.

[02:08:10]

Forty four in her current form, such as NASA's Mars Mars. She's narrowed it down.

[02:08:16]

She's getting it there, though, she explained having a sexual encounter with a Reverend Jones, who she believed to be a friend of Brian's, but who turned out not to be a reverend or friend of Brian's, but instead an agent of Satan.

[02:08:31]

That's what happened. Yeah.

[02:08:32]

So she said she went through a cleansing, right, holding her hand and mouth over a candle flame. So it was just oral and hand stuff, apparently just her hand and mouth wherever the penis went hand in mouth over a candle flame, smearing her face with ash, ash and burying religious tracks. The man gave her on the porch at her home. But she knew, she said, that the final cleansing would have to come from Brian Thorn, obviously, because he's Jesus, she said when she went to work the next day, quote, I felt like that would be the last day of my life and that it was inevitable that she go to Lafayette so that Thornton could, quote, dispatch me with his sword and hatchet.

[02:09:12]

Clearly a harpsichord teacher. Yeah.

[02:09:15]

Who now? Then the lawyer asked, why would he do that? And she said that's what's always happened before I was cut up before and twelve pieces. What the fuck this. No one pay attention when I talk. Jesus Christ. She says she's been reincarnated as religious figures from the past. She's originally eve from the Garden of Eden and it's gone from there to me now.

[02:09:37]

What the fuck doesn't get through your thick skull about that Eve? Mary, it's like I'm talking to myself up here. Unbelievable. I've been reading from from Eve to.

[02:09:47]

Yeah, Amar's. I'm Eve. I'm a lot of things. Steve.

[02:09:50]

Yeah, I'm a I'm a I'm a bitch. I'm a lover. I'm a child. I'm a mother. I'm a lot of things. I'm a sinner. I'm a saint. I got a lot of. Things going on right now. Children fucking awful song. Yeah, you know, listen, I kind of thing there's a lot you want to give or get back from this, whereas pussy is what I'm telling you that's going all through the years.

[02:10:12]

She's quoting the fucking loop poets from the 12th century. They're like, you know, all the references. How did you do that?

[02:10:20]

So, yeah, she later testified that, quote, I began seeing something in front of Shelley Smith. I saw this face and I saw it was a snake. Your way was sending me messages. I could see something at her neck like scissors or knives. And I said myself, I said to myself, quote, Is this the lady I have to do battle with?

[02:10:41]

Is she the the red fucking menacing or what?

[02:10:45]

The alleged lady of illusion intolerable that this intolerable bitch. So she answered the questions here in a quiet, precise voice. And then while her lawyer was talking to her and saying, going into a question, she just sat up in her seat, stood up and shouted angrily, quote, Jesus Christ, what have I done?

[02:11:08]

Yeah, they were like, huh? Well, trying to figure that out the point. And that's why we're all here. Yeah. So we've been doing this for a while, she said.

[02:11:16]

Then she said that's how Thornton had reacted after coming out of a trance like state. And they realized and realizing that they had had sexual intercourse. So she just burst out of that. And that, without no question apropos of nothing, she just said that. So her acquaintances are on the stand. Here's the one that's hilarious to me. This one lady, Linda Bellona of Indianapolis, said that Marchette Times would play the the centuries old dulcimer with a knitting needle instead of a pic.

[02:11:46]

Oh, and she said, quote, It took away the sweetness the dulcimer had has. And I said once to a friend that the reason she was the reason she played it that way is because there was violence in her dude, because he's doing it with a weapon.

[02:12:00]

Dude, you are at like a dulcimer festival with a bunch of mild ladies from the Midwest playing with and they're like, there's evil in her. Look out.

[02:12:10]

She's playing the dulcimer. She's got a knitting needle.

[02:12:13]

I mean, she's right. But Jesus Christ, Morvai, that's in there. She said she known her for six or seven years through her membership in the folk music and dulcimer society and had always thought of her as, quote, delightfully eccentric. Yeah, yeah. And another guy, Scotty Welch, a coworker at the Indiana Library, they're described today. I described a conversation that happened in the fall of eighty one in which Marsha suggested that Brian Thornton was Jesus.

[02:12:42]

He was telling her coworkers to I know Jesus. I met him. He's this guy named Brian. He plays the harpsichord. And yeah, she said that he had known Thornton and that they had been in reenactments together. So she knew him. And she asked me if I she asked me, did I love Brian? And I was like, he's all right. I mean, sure, he said that I love Brian. And she said that she came into work in the library last May and spent five hours writing strange religious and philosophical thoughts in a journal and that she placed in his care.

[02:13:16]

Oh, she said, now hold on. Let me know. That's what her feeling what this guy's feelings was toward Marsha. And he said, quote, I liked her as a co-worker and I liked her very much as a friend. It would be hard. It said it would be very hard for you to call Marsha crazy because of that. The lawyer said and he said, quote, Yes, it would other peoples other people testified that she seemed to have evidence of mental problems.

[02:13:39]

They talked about the hat, things like that.

[02:13:42]

They the Reverend Bruce musclemen of Constantine, Michigan, her former father in law. So he said that Jesus Christ, she was once married to his daughter, obviously, or to hurt his son. He's a Baptist pastor. Oh, boy. He described her, quote, as a product of the hippie movement. Twenty years ago, intellectuals and college students, dirty hippies. Yeah, she wants to go out and get a job instead of just I mean, Jesus Christ.

[02:14:14]

Poetry slam. He is John Lithgow from Footloose. This guy literally. It's from the hippie movement. I always felt she was capable of doing something like this because she was a hippie.

[02:14:25]

I always felt she was capable of trying to cut a woman's head off as what he said, fucking idiot guys knows all the details of the man's my guy who Monday morning quarterback extraordinaire.

[02:14:37]

I could have predicted this murder, he recalled. When she was in her early twenties, she fell to the floor in a tantrum of kicking and screaming after he told her she should stop reading so many technical books and read more domestic books on being a wife and mother.

[02:14:51]

That's what he told her. Stop whining. You stop trying to learn things and learn how to cook and learn how to fucking be a wife and. Wow, Jesus Christ, he said that he tried to make at least one visit a year to Indiana after after they were his son and her were divorced and he kept in touch with Marsha and his grandsons and even visit her in the jail in Lafayette. He said, I felt she needed a friend, but there was no rational communication at all.

[02:15:16]

She said her life was programmed and that she talked about and then she talked about the way I tried to get to her, but I couldn't reach her mentally. She wasn't the girl I'd known years ago. She's out of her fucking mind. So closing arguments, the prosecutors review all the shit they talk about the romantic relationships and all that. The prosecutor says, quote, She wove a threat of lies. Marcia Heald made some made continual references to Shelley Smith as a human being.

[02:15:43]

She mentioned her eyes, her nose, her chest. Are those physical attributes, attributes of a snake? Well, nose and eyes, yes. Except those ears and eyes. So, yeah, they're all one chest, that's all. One big chest along. Just healed. Would have you believe Marshall would have you believe that she killed a snake. No one, of course, can bring back bring back Shelley Smith. You can't bring back Shelley Smith, but you can make sure her murderess is punished.

[02:16:08]

Six men and six women got the case at two thirty five p.m. Deliver deliberated for about four and a half hours and then announced the verdict here. And after 12 days, they announced that she is, quote, Our verdict is guilty and sane, real and not even guilty and insane. Guilty and fine. What a fine. She's good faking it. No problem. Oh, boy. It's all good.

[02:16:34]

Her reaction to this is she gets up in court and says, I was charged with one thing to be accomplished, by the way, that that was to chop the head off the serpent who is called Satan.

[02:16:46]

I should have finished my mission in my last life. If I had not chopped the head off Satan in this life, I would have had to come back again in my next life, just like I was just getting it over with.

[02:16:56]

Dude, she yeah. That was her reaction to it.

[02:17:00]

That was her thing. She didn't say I'm sorry. She said, look, I had to get it over with every fucking life. They chop that off the serpent. I know. I got my best. Guess what, I'll be back again. See you soon then get it done. The eye. Wow. The hair attorney said, quote, It was a fair, objective sentence that was not based upon passion or subjective opinion. He doesn't think the trial is fair.

[02:17:23]

He's saying he's going to appeal. During sentencing, the judge said that he this is weird. He gave her a sentence and then said it should be longer, like, well, then why that one? Then he sentenced her to you, ma'am.

[02:17:37]

May fuck off. Forty years in prison for the murder. That's a standard sentence. And then he said, quote, I feel she probably should have gotten more than I gave her, but there was no legal basis for it. He said she basically probably shouldn't be out on the street. I think he also sentenced to 30 years in prison on a burglary conviction for walking in. But basically that should serve both sentences. At the same time. She's so it's concurrent and she's fine.

[02:18:05]

Twenty thousand dollars means that on in good behavior, she could be released in twenty years. Prosecutors had asked that she receive one hundred and ten years in prison. So, yeah, I don't even know what to say here. Gerald Smith, he was in the courtroom. He wouldn't comment on the sentence. Her parents were also there. They met with their daughter, with their daughter. And kind of you know, they said they were they were sad about the whole thing.

[02:18:33]

Worse. Yeah. They asked for by the prosecutor said we were confronted with a criminal as a potential for extraordinary violence. We're dealing here with an attack that was unprovoked, horrible and vicious, I would say. So they do appeal in nineteen eighty four. They appeal on the basis that her confession was coerced out of her, that she said she didn't want to talk, but they kept asking. She said they kept, quote, hounding her.

[02:18:58]

That's kind of what homicide investigators do.

[02:19:00]

They hound you for answers to find out what's up with that people. Yeah, well, she didn't ask for she she said that the warning she'd be punished.

[02:19:10]

They were warning her that she'd be punished by God if she didn't come clean, which is what they do read the homicide book.

[02:19:17]

They pretty solid. Whatever your thing is, that's what they're going to try to get to. If you really love your grandma, they're going to go, man, you know you want to. Yeah, you want to. Grandma Athena. Yeah. You got to be a man here and admit this. And that's what they do. If it's God, they go, you want you're going to go to hell, you want to go to hell. You fucking better admit the shit and you won't go to hell maybe.

[02:19:37]

And that's what they do. They plan whatever they want you to fucking confess and get it off the boards. They can move on to the next one. You're like a table to them. They're trying to get that table cleared and get another fucking, you know, get another group, sit down. So, yeah. So they the judge says that's fine. You're allowed to do that. Fuck off, you know, appeal. You're done. So she can.

[02:19:57]

Her sentence on July 28th, 2002, during her incarceration, she was considered a good inmate, she only received a couple of minor conduct reports and never was violent or aggressive in the 20 years she was there. She worked at the print shop and actively participated in I knew she was an asshole, the clown ministry where she dresses up like a clown and goes and, you know, makes three people out of an entire wing of a hospital happy while terrifying fucking some people and just making some people want to punch her in the face if they had the goddamn energy.

[02:20:29]

Is that what she's doing? Going to hospital? That's the clown ministry. That's what they do. The clown ministry goes around the hospitals like fuckin stupid Patch Adams murders people dressed as a clown. Thank you. I was just going to say a fucking child's room.

[02:20:40]

How would you like to be incapacitated, hooked up to tubes, not going anywhere and have a woman who decapitated somebody and his bonkers out of her mind walk in and a fucking clown outfit around with sharp objects.

[02:20:52]

Runaway. That's what you want. That's comforting.

[02:20:55]

Thanks a lot. Will make you wish for death.

[02:20:59]

That is wild. She also worked as a prison tutor because she's been in graduate school for Christ sake. And not a lot of people in prison have graduate degrees. And her prison record contains several letters of recognition for her prison volunteer work. She regularly attended prison counseling session but refused psychotropic medication while incarcerated so she would not take any meds. And her delusions persisted all throughout her prison sentence. She was as nice about them in the 1990s, by the way, I found this article where she invited people, inmates of the women's prison of Indianapolis, where she was at the time, who were serving sentences of twenty years or more, were permitted to invite up to twenty people a year to picnics you could have but invite people to picnics over the course on the yard.

[02:21:42]

Yeah, like you go sit out in the grass, have a picnic for the family day that yeah.

[02:21:47]

They have like Family Day type shit like that. So she was in there and she had some family in there and they went and hung out with her.

[02:21:53]

So 2003, she's going to she's paroled from jail. Good Lord. But they want to have a hearing to find out if she should be released or put into an institution now because they're like, yeah, you're still fucking crazy. You might not need to be committed, so. She her case was going through and, you know, it was 50 50, then she wrote a letter a month before she is supposed to get out, OK?

[02:22:20]

Wait a month before this is a letter to the Boone County clerk of the court. OK, now, first of all, there was a courthouse bombing in the Tippecanoe County courthouse at some point in the 90s, and that's what we'll talk about in 1998. OK, so let's get into that. All right.

[02:22:39]

You need to know that for the context of the letter, quote, I am once more inquiring about the disposition of the hat of the righteous one of Israel, which has been in your keeping since my trial in the Boone County Superior Court in 1982. She wants her hat.

[02:22:53]

She wants her fucking hat back. She wants her hair evidence. She wants it released.

[02:23:00]

She wants it. Yeah. WMS Tammy Hunter, my transition coordinator at Indiana Women's Prison, has made several telephone inquiries into your office, the prosecutor's office, the sheriff's department, and also the police and sheriff's department, as well as the courts and Tippecanoe County trying unsuccessfully to locate the hat.

[02:23:18]

And everyone she has talked to says that the hat is gone and they have no idea where it went or when. OK, now it gets crazy. The misplacing of the hat of the righteous one of Israel creates a huge public safety menace as taxpayers of the Tippecanoe County found on August 2nd. Nineteen ninety eight. Oh, you can't say shit like that when their courthouse was bombed on my 16th anniversary, her sixteenth anniversary. So she thinks the missing hat people fucking.

[02:23:49]

Yeah, this was on, it was gone.

[02:23:51]

So on the sixteenth anniversary of the murder, they were avenging that by blowing up a courthouse by trying to bomb a courthouse. Oh boy.

[02:23:58]

Yeah, she said, I recently learned that the people in possession of the hat are the ones who firebombed the courthouse. OK, OK. They apparently believe that the hat was a plaything to put on on their own heads. And just this violates the command of your way. Most high God of the universe that only the anointed one may wear the hat. Very important for my own protection, for I'm sorry for you, for my own protection. I am requesting an affidavit from your office regarding the disposition of the hat.

[02:24:31]

I need to have proof of where the hat went, who authorized its removal or destruction so that I will be exonerated from all blame.

[02:24:39]

Otherwise it's all on her. I need paperwork. That's all she needs. I need the TPS report on that.

[02:24:45]

The blithering idiot who removed the hat from the Boone County courthouse can be charged with collusion in the Tippecanoe County firebombing because giving the hat to an unauthorized person is like giving a loaded gun to a five year old child who believes the gun is a toy.

[02:24:59]

Oh, see the part? Oh, my God. I do not incidentally, believe that the hat was destroyed at the beginning as the blathering idiot plan.

[02:25:08]

The hat is very fair and attractive and Fey and anyone who saw it in the garbage heap would be bound to retrieve it as a boon souvenir.

[02:25:19]

It's amazing to see that. And I'm getting that out of the garbage and no one's throwing that out.

[02:25:23]

I can devise a way to get the hat back. Now she goes into if you are willing to put up a reward of several thousand dollars and advertise in the right places, as I shall direct you also, I will have to identify the hat from photos submitted by the prospective reward seeker. Obviously, this will require a sting operation and much patience, but it will be worth your time and trouble because the person who comes forward with the hat of the Rights is one of Israel will be the Tippecanoe courthouse bomber.

[02:25:53]

You'll have your suspect case solved by me. Unbelievable.

[02:25:58]

We can do a sting.

[02:25:59]

Oh, yeah. Get rid to is. We're going to get this. So if that wasn't enough. Yeah.

[02:26:06]

A Doctor Payne concluded that she is a very nice, intelligent person who is a grandmother figure to the inmates but is severely mentally ill. She is suffering from paranoid schizophrenia, explaining that she has a complex, delusional system. In fact, the most complex I have ever seen, because she is very highly intelligent but feels she is half human and half angel, she feels she is a warrior type angel and that she had to protect Brian Thornton, who she perceives as Christ from the murder victim who Marsha knew from a past life five thousand years ago.

[02:26:38]

Fuck and die. I want to read books so bad I'm afraid to now because I don't want to touch this. This is what's going to happen to stay.

[02:26:45]

Don't hurt your brain. Remember, all of us stay dumb. He further testified that he believed that she is on a religious quest, that she believes she's on a religious quest from God, and that she did the right thing when she committed the murder because Marsha felt the woman was a snake and she needed to cut the head off. Still, she believes that also questioned her ability to take care of herself because she still suffers from the same delusions that were responsible for the murder of Smith and.

[02:27:09]

She says that she is a danger to herself and others, especially under duress. He also remarked that her insight and judgment are extremely poor. He said, quote, There is a market paranoid ideation in Marsia. When pressed with pertinent issues, she can be easily disturbed. So she's not OK to let out and be on her own, obviously. Yeah, they said that she has a delusional disorder. Everybody went through and said all this shit here.

[02:27:35]

The prison ministry guy said he saw her twice a week and she was he said that a loving and supportive environment would be beneficial to her and that the church might be able to help her find a place, but she would need to be taking drugs. You need to be on something she can't just have be paranoid schizophrenic, unmedicated, wandering the streets.

[02:27:55]

They said that, you know, if she was she was taking meds, maybe we would take her in and, you know, that could be here. They also found that the court finds that she presents a substantial risk of danger to others and is gravely disabled. So, yeah, they are not not good at all here. I would say gravely. And she's bad. She's she's she's pretty sick. Yeah. She says, is this her involuntary her counselor counsel in the closing said 20 years ago when it was convenient for the state to fight against an insanity defense and have there convicted just as guilty as the crime they can.

[02:28:32]

They convince the judge and jury that the mental illness played no part in this act. It seems ironic that now she's three days away from being released in the state. Would wish to say that they want some sort of do over for a second bite at the apple to say that this was because of mental illness. So, like if you said it was because of mental illness, it should have fucking been because of mental illness before, not just now, but either way, they stick her back in.

[02:28:52]

They say she got to go back to the loony bin. Yeah, that's too much. And as far as I know, she's still in there. I can't find anything. I don't know if she's still in there. If she's out, she's kept quiet. I'm not sure.

[02:29:03]

But there's no way she's out. I don't know. I don't know how anybody would let her out, honestly. Now she's she's so crazy. I don't think she can help saying these things. I think she's really nuts. She kept it up for twenty years in prison. This isn't a fucking act. She's nuts. I mean, it's really out. I could see saying, oh, she conveniently went real crazy the last few months and killed somebody.

[02:29:22]

That's a real convenient thing. And blah, blah, blah. But twenty years. Yeah. And then a few months. That serpent, James, it's I mean, she's still like I did the right thing. Like she's not even she she she knows how to play the game and she's not playing and she's still saying I did the right thing. Fuck her, she's a serpent. So that is crazy. That's our Halloween story, everybody.

[02:29:42]

I don't know. That's I don't even know what to call that supernaturally. Sort of. That's too much. Holy shit, man.

[02:29:50]

Have we found a crazier than our craziest yet. Got to be right.

[02:29:54]

Yeah, I think it is. But either way, I don't know. It seems like it is. If you enjoyed that story, congratulations. So did we because it was fucking crazy. But you can tell us all about it. Get on Apple podcast. That purple icon. Tell us you like it. It doesn't matter. Just give us five stars. It helps drive the show up the charts. And we thank you guys for doing that. Thank everybody out there who does that head over to shut up and give me murder dotcom for the tickets to the virtual live show it is tonight.

[02:30:21]

If you're listening right when this comes out, it's Thursday, October 29th, and it'll be available for forty eight hours to view after that. So if you can't make it right away on Thursday night at six o'clock, six o'clock our time, nine o'clock Eastern, 6:00 p.m. Pacific in the US, I don't know. Do your math overseas. I'm not sure. Sometimes some time there. Yeah. If you can't see it then it will be available for forty eight hours to watch as well.

[02:30:43]

So you can check that out. Get on that violent all violent felon edition of the prisoner dating game. Jimmy is going to get to pick from four bachelors and four bachelorettes and I have some surprise twists in there as well because we always try to up the ante, every one of you. So it's going to be so much fun. Check that out. We can't wait. Like we said, shut up and give me murder dotcom today. For that.

[02:31:06]

You got to do it today or tomorrow or the next day. I don't know. But that's it. Chances. That's it. It's over because I don't know what the hell we're going to be able to get back on the road. I wish we were we wish we could come to places, but we can't not going to happen. It's not going to be it's going to be a while. Not up to us at all, by the way.

[02:31:20]

So we apologize for any old woman died on a fucking airplane.

[02:31:23]

I don't want to be on a fucking airplane. That's so scary. Yeah, that was a bad thing. That's a horror of those terrible. Yeah.

[02:31:30]

If all things that got somebody with an inch of their fucking life and they're getting on a plane, I'm not getting on a plane with you people now.

[02:31:36]

It's fucking terrifying. Who the hell. And that's what I mean. So Jesus Christ, where are we want to be out there. What we're saying we love you. We wish we could see you guys and just come out there, see everybody and hang out with everybody. And I miss you. So do meet and greets and take pictures and just hear you guys laugh. It's a lot of fun. So we wish we were there, but we're not.

[02:31:53]

So do that. Shut up and give me murder dotcom today if you want more content than that. Well, we got it for you. You can be a Patriots sponsor donor, I should say, Patriots dotcom slash crime and sports. You'll get access to all of the bonus materials. And there's so many other. So as we do at least for a month or so with crime and sports and small town murders, so tons of good stuff and they're hilarious, we're not going to be humble here.

[02:32:16]

They're goddamn hilarious this week for crime and sports is what you'll have access to. You'll have access to everything with the donation. We are going to do the plane ride from hell because it has the word hell in it and it's Halloween. But it's actually a bunch of wrestlers, WWE wrestlers, the whole crew flying back from a long European tour on a chartered flight with a full and open bar and debauchery and lawsuits and everything. People get fired from it.

[02:32:43]

It's a fucking disaster. A wild tale over here, worse than like a snake on a plane, way worse than that. Drunk wrestlers on a plane. Nightmare for Vince Morgan's. Yeah. And also for small town murder. Since it's Halloween, we are going to do kind of the creepiest, most. I don't know if they're creepy. Not to me. They're kind of neat. But like the most, the small towns, like haunting is their whole thing.

[02:33:06]

Like we're a haunted town will kind of will go into like kind of the the the legends behind the hauntings and things like that and kind of try to find the creepiest small towns we can find. Basically, we've done kind of the weirdest small towns. Yeah. Now we're going to do creepy, haunted small town.

[02:33:21]

So a lot of ghost hunting in there. Yeah. Oh, there's going to be people. That's the only reason to go there. So they're pumping it up. So that'll be a lot of fun on dotcom slash crime and sports. Anybody over the five dollar level gets access to everything. Will have a good time laughing at people's ridiculous legends. Oh, I can't wait. That'll be so much fun. If you want to just get a hold of the show, say hello, you can do that and follow us on Twitter, Facebook, all that crap.

[02:33:43]

You can follow us. We are at small town, that small town part on Facebook at murder, small on Twitter at small town murder on Instagram. We're all there. Find us there. It's a lot of fun. Yeah. Jimmy, speaking of fun, you know, it's a lot of fun. I do. I like hearing the names of my favorite people who would never believe that I'm a serpent whose head needs to be removed from my body.

[02:34:04]

Jimmy right now hit me with those wonderful people. I need them.

[02:34:07]

This week's executive producers are Christopher Paul, Carl Jordan Bennett on their SO her and Simon are celebrating their 16th anniversary. Congrats, The Anniversary Fockers. Nicole Blair, Alexa, Alexa, Alexia Gordon. Happy birthday to her. Also, Susan McQuillan. Jesus, I'm sorry. Catherine Conqueror, Chris Taylor, Christian Castaldi again. Thanks, Chrissy. We got to get back to Boston.

[02:34:30]

Man Yeah. God, Boston was great. Also, Chef Kristen Colanders birthday is this way. Happy birthday. I don't know which day. God, happy birthday Laria Rousse Jesse Plotkin, Gavin Smith, PILT Don Fritze, Lisa Neuberger. Sherry Dickins. Samantha with no last name. Michelle Oh boy. Baba Seina. I think Rachel Funt. What Funderburk. I think Dimin. Nope. That's Dean voter. Kathy McMahon. Jim Boy. Soad Bomi. Soad Christ.

[02:35:01]

Jennifer Luckie, thank you guys so much. We can think of amazing other producers this week. Thank you so much, Carter. Carter Harris, Melissa MC McVicar, Jesus. Sarah Kotal. Thomas Smith. Nico Robin Robin James. Leah Caldwell. Sally Mahtani, Tracy Renninger, Gary Howard. Thanks, Gary. Thanks. Katarzyna Nield. Zorka Temmy, right? Nope. That's night, God damn it. Zachary Jackson. Dakota Harington Kaylee's Short. Kiren White Morissa Colt.

[02:35:33]

Teisha Teisha Thomas. Hailie Pierce Ramsdale. Brendan Abels. Thank you Brandon. Hey, James Marter. Liz Vásquez. Thanks, Liz. Josh Barnetts. Jill Haynes, Morissa Cole. Kristen Bélanger, Jessica Matthews, Katrina Jones, Michael Scott. If that is that that could be real. Jake Naso, Elizabeth Barch Brcko. Brandon Brandon Bendy. What is this, Binoy? I say he's a Native American and he likes to send me horrible things, the horrible words to me, because it is, um, accidental.

[02:36:09]

I don't mean to Jessica Nikke Neka, Haley Vaira, Megan Schroeter. Obviously that was that guy's name. Schroeter David. No, he is a famous actor.

[02:36:23]

Shogo Whoa. Ricky Ricky got it locked and loaded their first and then it unloaded Brookvale. Todd Saraph, Kimberly Paxson. What is this diary. That's not right. That says Mary that Iveta with no last name. Geb Edmonson. Amanda Knight. Wetly Krumm, Devin Cleveland Canor one five two. Josh Garcia. Heather Musser. Todd Vanderhoff HUF. Oh fuck. Joanne Ayhan, thank you so much. She said happy birthday to me because I posted the birthdays on a month, a month that all the ever important a Yeah.

[02:37:00]

Never talk about my birthday. Thank you so much for anybody that sent money thinking that happy birthday not I mean I did not do that to bilk money. No. February, thank you, February, don't send anything in February, you've done enough. Jenny Caputo, Ms. Simms, Tim Johnson, Rob Smith, Tracy Jacobs, Janice Hill, an uncle named Vinnie Caputo. Do you think it might be housing Jesse? I'll bet it's them. Might be.

[02:37:23]

Jesse probably used his credit card, maybe Rob Smith, Tracy Jacobs, Janice Hale, John Jonathan Hoskins, Mason O'Hern, Tim Johnson. What I do here. Leah Medlock Gaudí. Nope, bunk. Ms. Simms, I said that W Rich, Chloe Campbell, Adam Bennett tell you how much Molly is that. Molly March. It's just Molly. Is that Molly. Is that Molly Mole. Right.

[02:37:50]

Molly. Molly March. Molly Miranda Kincaid. Susannah Platt. Kyle Warez. Samantha Nope. That's Sarah Lockhart. I am fucking dumb. Todd you're on a roll. Todd Tunks. Gunnar Gray, Jessie Solsbury Bagua Kiwanuka Begger Bija Baja fuck Robert Weya wire ragan who. What day. Hurm Blay. Nope. Daham to play Turmeda. Wow. I think he's a guy that Kurt Angle wrestled.

[02:38:18]

And then we talk about private sport in The Wizard, Franklin Berry, Cal Seelie, Matt Morgan, Rene Peterson. Happy Birthday Winston Howard. Brian Show Schodorf sorry Brian Mark Cayzer.

[02:38:32]

Bethany Plack now black. What did I do now. It's one syllable can be black or black. Depends on how shitty my writing is. Short name Cassandra Newsome, Rachel Reed, Tricia Raines SPEA and Stephanie Telford. Tyler Cresswell. Mallory Ian Koni. Brian Nearne in the house. Nice fuck Archibold meet Pant's. Probably not. Stephanie Andrews. Jesse Thomas. Tracy MoonWalks Fuck Chrissy. Kristi McFarland. Susie Green Sue. I think it's Soos Liz Gracian Platter D'Wayne Mattson's.

[02:39:08]

Susan Wootten. Jamie Phee, Mary Brutus. Jason Hoh or Hoft. Justin Greenberg. John Robinson. Alex No. Tom What. Tim Tim Will Aitkin. Jay would no last name. al-Samarie Mitchell Smith. Alex Casey. Tori Kikkan Hafer. Nope that k4 whoa fuck. Hannah our trip. Britney Galen's. I don't want to give Goan because I could say horrible. I don't want to say up. People are going to think that's my fault. But I was reading on to say more words.

[02:39:39]

Jonathan Keroack. Terina Ekatarina What. Jackie Mader a monkey chef. What.

[02:39:47]

Katie Watkins' Dennis Lucas Purt Asia Monroe Alexis Roy Lance Christopher Lewis, Courtney McCarthy, Riley, Kyle Dignon, Dynan, Katie Hale or Holly. I don't know. Melissa Miller Memoir's Kelsey Martin, Chris Leonard and Carlton Carlton Merritt D What D Gamma 1000. Dejima What. Jim Monroe. Sam Powell. Stacy Loper. Corey Akechi. What hatched H to Borski. That's not right. Jennifer Dalton. Haley Steph.

[02:40:25]

Steph Kovik. Phil Beeb's Haymer. Kevin Roen. Kimberly Wade. Olivia Owers. Kenzie would no last name. Andy Young Rice Kaiman Aaron Tinnies Free Tom George Karl Stump Charles not Karl. What Amanda would no last name. April Williams. Laura Nichols. Maggie Fitch. Kelsey would no last name Bagua. Ku Enuka. I think I said that once before they donated vocalised. That's what happened. Thank you. Thank you. Sean would no last name. Melanie Hood.

[02:40:54]

Michelle with no last name. Maylee or male Rivkah are better Rivkah. It's fucking not American right. Is that, is that English. That is you know Kim Lincoln is sandy storico. We like all of our grimson Travis acad Charnwood. No last name Stefan taught Steven. Ah Captain Surly Olivia. What students see in Chile. That's Italian now. Meira, Azrael, Meira Tiphanie no Luca no last name and Marie Annamarie like the fucking song. Morrigan Pendleton.

[02:41:30]

Samantha Mires. Jack would no last name. Nancy Drew. Probably not the author. Maybe Chris would no last name. Grant Springer. Tricia Mobley. Cody Adams. Kyle Roush. Jessica Jairus. Tim Umstead Umstead. David Lemieux Jr..

[02:41:46]

Probably this kid I'm sure his brother or Clark.

[02:41:50]

Right. Sandy Zavala on Brother David GVC TV. I don't know what I did. Sean Joel's Michelle Penn, Dino Josh W. Nick Armenta Mentor. Allie Thomas Pastore, Pastor TSOL Jallal. It's a zl. I'm never going to exhale. Not once, Joshua. Doherty mystique events of Kvass, Nick What Mizzy, Melissa, make McVicar. I said that already, that means you don't need it both ways. Thank you. Thank you. Colby Dupont.

[02:42:20]

Probably that dude's kid. Eric Stumpf, Timothy Driscoll. Colin Ackerly. What Colin actually Buffington. Chad Hope. Hope. Nicole Banek. That's OK. Lance Vacek Novak. OK, Virchow. OK, say something. Trish would no last name.

[02:42:36]

Tonya Hall. JD Johns. Shane would no last name. Samuel Garcia. Jeffrey Jefferson Steel Flaks. Tyler R. Mat with no last name. Steven Seigler. Gavin Guandong. Gavin L.O. what, Quandialla. I don't know. It's Italian. Adrian Toronado. Sarah Barba. Zachary Mills'. Jana Wells. Sean Miller. Wade would no last name. Larry Larkin. Chris Vikner. Jordan Fisher. Matt Chessler. DeAndre Floyd. Karen Krank. Leticia Bradford Muhammad. Kira Barton.

[02:43:07]

Kieran Burton. Nicholas Qiam.

[02:43:10]

What Party and the Dress. Dressel Laura Vandar Worke. Robin Middlebrook. Michael Bélanger.

[02:43:21]

Chastity Chastity Cassidy Moore. It's her birthday. I don't know. Happy birthday. I'm never going to pronounce that. Briana Hall, Angela Rockefeller. Hannah Simmons. Lea Go Fat Goepfert Gothard. Jonathan Gorst. Why is it always Gorrostieta. Why is it Italian brandy with No I love the food. Kevin Kevin Mathers obviously Eminem's brother Beverly Kronick. Hannah Simmons, Esther Hedberg, Dallas Almanac's kid. Right.

[02:43:52]

And a Dallas Allmon, one of the brothers, one of the royal sons, sons and daughters of royalty that everyone Nikki Shepard, PIN Horn, Tyler Guenther, Günther Kelly Dempsey, Patrick Sked, Sam Samantha right.

[02:44:07]

Jamie and Fante's Ward Hines, his daughter Garrett Johnson, Mike Shanahan, his daughter or James Melzer.

[02:44:19]

Ken Dina Hough. Jamie Hicks. Katrina Sveinsson. Jamie Lichtenberger. You know that famous. Yeah, Bobby Lichtenberger. We know that one.

[02:44:29]

David Borut, Eric Gordon. Kelly Mitchell. Jeff BGM up asema. I don't know if that's Jay Linda Baker Lelani Jr.. Michael Hall Zema Tisha TESHA Jackson of the Jackson seven, Timothy six. Tiffany Squareness. The Cut of the Dancing for Courtney Spring and Eva M Ava M Gavin Nelson. Jordan Shrock. Britney Halle. Mindy Welch of the Grape Juice.

[02:44:56]

Clearly Britney Smith, Christina Oliver Joel and Joel Bateman, Jason's brother as I believe Angela Corn man Natalie Etzel and Closs Santo's daughter Maria onWe, Christine Dowling, Andre Sandoval, Dale Kresse Water Pablo's girlfriend, muralists, fabulous daughter.

[02:45:21]

Lauren Reutter of the News, Fourche and clearly Sherri Penrod, Simon Freebird, Maggie Poppa's Jeanette Gauthier and Jonathan Troas.

[02:45:30]

Claire of the of the of the Kennebunkport just glares at all of our patron donors because if I can make my day. Thank you so much. We really appreciate you.

[02:45:41]

Thank you so much, everybody. Honestly, thank you for everything. We can't tell you how much we appreciate it. It's been a it's been a crazy year and you guys have stuck with us and we just heard year. Thank you so much, Jimmy. What if they wanted to stick with you? How could they get along? Fine.

[02:45:54]

Reacquisition sucks. Yes-Man sucks. Where are you at? Jimmy P is funny and just my last name is there. Copy it. You're not going to spell it right so just do that. Thank you guys for hanging out with us and everything you do and works for next week are already into goddamn November. Next week. Yeah. And holidays. Yeah we're on it. We're on a run to Thanksgiving now and then Christmas. It's crazy shit. So whatever you celebrate and everybody enjoy your shit but we'll be here the whole time.

[02:46:22]

Sure. Yeah, we'll be here for you. However you feel, however you feel at the end of this week. Coming up, maybe save the show for Tuesday if you need a laugh or something for whatever side you're rooting for. But either way, everybody, until next week, it's been our pleasure.