#216 - The Pyramid Killer - Imlay, NevadaSmall Town Murder
- 2,124 views
- 25 Mar 2021
This week, in Imlay, Nevada, where a surprising, and absolutely horrible scene is discovered, and there are few clues to go on. That is, until a lunatic begins making his presence known, all around the area. This leads investigators to one of the strangest arrests in the history of murder. To a man who has some odd beliefs when it comes to pyramids, mountains, and his own name. A truly wild tale, of some truly horrific murders!!
Along the way, we find out that Burning Man sounds super weird, that unless you're mining for gold, there's no reason to be up in those mountains, and that you can't just tell people that you're the Emperor of North America, and get away with murder!!
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This week in Elmaleh, Nevada, a horribly bloody scene with unthinkable brutality, combined with a series of strange events, leads investigators to a person who claims to live in a pyramid. Welcome to small town murder.
Allo, everybody, and welcome back to small town murder, yeah, oh, yeah, indeed, Jimmy.
Yeah, indeed. My name is James Petraglia. I'm here with my co-host. I am Jimmy Weisman. Thank you, folks, so much for joining us today. Again and again and again. We are so excited. We have one of the craziest, craziest people ever today as I was the subject of this. I can't wait to hear. It's one of these that it's a top five pocket robin level crazy. We're talking it's it's wild. So I can't wait to get to that.
Before that, though, I just want to quickly thank everyone for everything you've done for us. Of course, in the last week and forever, the last few years. As a matter of fact, you're absolutely heroes. Thank you. Yes, you are. Thank you for your reviews. First of all, Apple podcast, that purple icon, for some reason, those count heavily in the rankings and all that. So we appreciate it. If you do that, five stars, doesn't matter what you say you can tell us to like we've done before, tell us your favorite shape of cloud.
They're your favorite kind of cloud. That's I like seeing. I like cumulus clouds under our reviews. That's fun. So do that. It doesn't matter what you say. Honestly, it's just for business. It's not for our ego. So thank you for everyone. To everyone who's done that. Also go to shut up and give me murder dotcom right now for everything crime and sports and small town murder. And we're going to have a lot of updates on touring stuff for.
Oh, it's coming. It's coming. Tons of updates on that. So get on that. And you probably want to follow also at murder small and Twitter and Facebook, Twitter and or that's Twitter and Facebook is that small town pod and Instagram, that small town murder.
There you go. For all your officers out there, also runs Instagram, gives a shit day care area.
So also listen to crime and sports. I mean, you should be doing that already. I don't know what the hell you're thinking there. And also, I hate this movie where I have to watch the entire Twilight series so you can listen to my suffering there, check out all that stuff. And especially, though, you certainly, certainly want to check out Patriot dotcom slash crime and sports. You want to get on there right now. We have had such a lot of such crazy shows.
The last ones that came out a couple of days ago, though, what a good run we had. We did the hotel Cecil. We talked about that for crime and sports, which had nothing to do with sports. But that's OK. We talked about that in that documentary and the disappearance of Elisa Lam and the whole thing. There was a really, really interesting one. And then one small town murder. You missed the prisoner dating game. So you want to get in there, you get the whole back catalog.
If you subscribe to beautiful Patreon dotcom slash crime and sports and that prisoner dating game, Jimmy, really, he stepped in it hard on that one. Really. It's his worst decision ever. And any of the games. Sure, it's pretty good stuff. Even worse than the one where we had the guy murder him at the end.
If during the virtual live show, even worse than that will say so sometimes you're blinded, blinded by whatever it is, blinded by the love of the of the pen pal posting exotic criminal. Oh, boy. So Jimmy did that. You can check all that out and everything. The whole back catalog, Patreon, dotcom slash crime and sports. And if you do that, you'll be a producer, which means you will get a shout out at the end of the show and Jimmy will and his best effort to pronounce your name perfectly will brutalize it terribly and make it nothing near your name.
But you'll make real recognize it. It'll be a fragment in there somewhere.
But Will, we'll there's been a couple of people that are like, I don't know. Yes, I know. Like, I definitely do. Yeah. I don't think you said it. I don't think you said right. I'm like, that's the charmander. That's I'm trying my best. So I do that and you'll be a producer and you can also be a producer and have great karma if you just want to drop something on people using our email address, crime and sports at Gmail, dot com and everything you guys do for us, everything everybody does.
Thank you so much. We are over. We're we're just overjoyed by it. And we can't we're overwhelmed by it. Honestly, we can stand. Thank you.
And whatever. There's a ton of words that describe the humility that we feel any time any of you get rude about us.
So disclaimer quickly, this is a comedy show. We're comedians. This is there is a murder story always. It's real. Yeah. I'm not making anything up for comedic purposes. This is an actual terrible thing that happened. And there's going to be jokes, not the jokes. That's the thing. The the art of it is the jokes are not about really the murder stuff. That's the thing. You never hear us be excited about someone being decapitated or anything like that.
But all the crazy stuff that goes around to murder the rest of the time, which is most of any murder story, it's hilarious when you think about it, who thinks to do something like that? So we're going to make fun of that. We're going to have so many variables between that. I mean, weapon of mass insanity. So that's what we will we go out of our way to not make fun of the victims or the victims families.
Why? Because we're assholes. Yeah, we're not scumbags.
I mean, that's is the deal. That's how we do it. So if that sounds good to you, we are going to have a good time. If you think true crime and come. He just for no reason, should ever go together. Maybe the show is not for you. Maybe it is. Give it a shot, but don't complain later on if you go. There was a joke heavily on. It's not. It's possible. You never know.
So whatever your way for the rest of you that are left, I think it's time to sit back and shout, Shut up, shut up and give me murder.
Let's do this, Jim. I can't wait. Let's go on a trip. Excited? Yeah. Excited, too. Let's do this. Let's get out of Mississippi. Hot and humid and sticky. We're down by the by the Gulf there. And it's it's sticky down there where we were last week. That was a crazy story.
And Lucedale, by the way, that was that was one of those where it's like it's strange because the guy seemed relatively on the range of normal otherwise. And then he's just like, I'll just commit the craziest murder ever recorded. I'll make up the most insane murder weapon. That's not a weapon. And I'll I'll turn it into one. And wow, if you didn't have you missed last week, check out Lucedale, Mississippi, because it was a trip.
But oh, it's something. It's something. But this week we're going out west, Jimmy Open Spaces. We're going to Elmaleh, Nevada. Oh, boy. You know where that is now. No, no one knows where that is. I don't think it's inlay with an M with an M. Yeah, m not in my not in L.A. not like you're in laying something. So this is northwest Nevada. It's about two hours to Reno. So when you're two hours outside of Reno, that's saying something that's out there.
Man, that is that's out there about seven and a half hours to Vegas because people who aren't from that area might think Nevada, Vegas, it's nowhere near Vegas. I mean, that is way up there. Yeah. Seven and a half hours. It might as well be, you know, that may as well be Idaho. Yeah. It's so far it's about thirty minutes to Winnemucca, Nevada, which was actually our last Nevada episode, pretty close Winnemucca, which was episode one.
Thirty one, you know, and that was Jimmy all the way back of August 7th. Twenty nineteen, which might as well be a hundred and fifty years ago.
So that was in what, 2001, Jimmy. That's on. That wasn't twenty nineteen. It might as well have been 2001. It's insanity. Remember that year. That's what I said. It's in Pershing County. This town area code seven seven five one point two square miles is the actual kind of town proper. But the area itself that they call Imlay is about thirty four kind of square miles. And the whatever the the area, they say it's it's high.
This is in the mountains up there, too. This is 4200 feet of elevation in this town. So it's really yeah. This this area is normally don't give the elevation, but normally I don't think people are going to think that about Nevada.
But it's something anybody knows that Nevada really has that much of mountains. Yeah, this is the the northwest corner there. So there's there's mountains from the California range. Oh, you mean the one there in Nevada, Sierra Nevada that people don't think about now.
Town motto here. Here we go. Town motto. There's two of them. One of them is more four in town and one of them's more four out in the hills out because this is gold mining country. This is where people still to this day will like it, like it's Deadwood will go get themselves up, pick and whatever that thing is, or that that plate with holes in it where they seem to have their. You got the pan. Yeah, they get a pan and a pick and they still go out there and they're going to make their fortune now, which I feel like is a last ditch effort at something you've messed up.
Sounds like that's pig Latin.
Yeah. Yeah. Imlay on the on the house. Okay, this is not a so and they and one fake one motto here is just what you're doing all the way out here.
That's one that expects it's very common. That's what everybody Alaska or if you get more in the hills in the gold quote, that's my gold pupu.
So that's a different one. Those are the two most heard phrases in this area.
So history of this town, it's an unincorporated town out there just kind of sitting by itself. It's it has to at this day, it has an elementary school, a general store, a post office and a trading post.
It is seventeen, twenty there still. It's like, yeah, it's like eighteen eighty five in this town.
Just always it's a it was a railroad town that's now completely pretty much abandoned that used to have more people and now it doesn't. It was named for the nearby mine and or for the civil engineer who surveyed the town. No one knows. No one knows if the guy who surveyed the town was really named this and then they named the mine after it and they named the town after it. So they don't know. It's very strange. This is like I said, this is the gold country up here.
It's the what is it?
The Majuba mountains, Amagi, Nuba Mountains. That's Majuba, Majuba. It's got canyons and all this shit in there. What this town does have, what it's kind of known for, it's weird because it's the only thing that's. Area is known for, well, two things, we'll get to that and things to do, the Thunder Mountain Monument O, which is not a ride at Disneyland, I'm going to say it's not a monument to the ride at Disneyland, but it's it's called the Wikipedia says it's a series of outsider art, sculptures and architectural forms that were assembled by Frank Van Zandt during starting in 1969 upon his arrival in L.A..
It's off the shoulder of the IHT. This says, yes, I did a little research here. He's a World War Two veteran from Oklahoma. He served with the 7th Armored Division and World War Two, fought a bunch of campaigns in Europe and was badly burned in a tank battle. This guy that sounds awful, Jesus became an artist. Well, well, later on, he's born on in on an Indian reservation in Okmulgee, Oklahoma, in 1921.
And he he due to his upbringing, he's not an Indian. He's not a native at all, I don't think. No, he's not at all. His his dad's name is Sidney Grove Van Zandt, which, you know, but because he grew up in on the reservation, though, he identifies himself as a creek Indian. Oh, no.
Because everybody. One of those guys.
Yeah. But I guess then, too, that's not like he could like watch TV and like or anything else. It was just like, well, this is what's around me, you know, I guess I'm I guess it's whatever. But yeah, he's he's so he's kind of self-identified. You don't want to be that guy.
Chief Rachel Dolezal, kind of a thing here going on like the guy from Love after the lockout who just left and you don't want to be that guy. One twenty seventh Native American and he now only wears turquoise and braids his hair and he wears fringes and long braids and like and literally will answer questions with like age old proverbs. And you're like, listen motherfucker, listen.
No, I don't want to hear that shit. Well, kids. Yeah. I don't want to hear that from you. And you just focus on raising your children. Jesus Christ.
So he became after a while, he ended up ditching his name of Van Zandt and taking the Native American name Rolling Mountain Thunder. Well, after he experienced an epiphany, which sounds like this is in the late 60s, it sounds like he took acid and he said, my name is now Roe. What is it fucking rolling out on the valley before me? So I don't know what the effect of that, because Mountain Dew was already a drink.
I rode like Mountain Dew. What's that you say, baby shit, rah, rah, rah. Like Mountain Thunder Bow before me.
He yeah. He had such a cool name.
Why would you want to change it. That's the I don't know he he ended up OK. He had two things he wanted to get done here after his epiphany. Well three changed his name number one, and then he needed to a couple of tasks. One was building shelters for the presumed coming apocalypse because that was part of his epiphany. Also, there's an apocalypse coming. Always a lot of that, obviously.
And also, he wanted to make this coming apocalypse place refuge, a spiritual haven for seekers in the hippie era as well.
So and that's the guy the story is about. This is nope.
This is this is just a guy from the town, Jerry. He he built out of desert flotsam and concrete as it's put here. The the monument is an astonishing work of art, as powerful and intriguing and as visionary as the Watts Towers. This one review of it says the site covers. See it, do the site covers. I have pictures. I'll show you. The site covers five acres on the south side of one hundred of a thousand foot stretch of Interstate 80.
There was originally seven buildings, including three a three story hostel where many hippies lived in the 70s, Mike, and they came through three stone and concrete buildings remain and more than 200 concrete sculptures depicting Native Americans and their protective spirits, massacres and injustices against them. That's what remains here. It's got like it's weird, though, that he put up like other things, like found objects, like car hoods are everywhere. Doll heads used to be all over the place.
Doll heads would be dangling from all the trees like ornaments, which is just creepy and very strange. The third floor had one wall made of antique bottles which formed a stained glass window, the stained glass window, basically. So that was that's kind of neat, though. Concreted that shit in. Yeah. Other ones had floor wooden floors, had windows from antique windshields and bottles incorporated to provide lighting. So when the sun headed up with light, the whole room, all sorts of shit here one framework forms a large handle.
So the Great Spirit could take the building away after he dies. So it's it's almost like his like like an army lunchpail. Yeah. Well, yeah, it's like his tomb except bury me deep in the sarcophagus but put a handle on it so that the gods can take me away when they're done here. So I mean this, I don't know this all of this is fine if that's like some you're like made of belief of all your people. But you have to remember, this guy's name is Van Zandt, and he decided this all on his own.
So the site was partially destroyed by arson in nineteen eighty three, which was the same year that he was honored as nineteen eighty. Artist of the year by the state of Nevada, oh, he was artist of the year, not the Grammys, and someone burned his shit down at the same year. It's almost like it drew attention to him. And they were like, who's that artist of the year? Fuck, I'm going to burn his shit to the ground.
How dare he? So it was also kind of falling apart. Thunder Mountain, it's a hostile house, had burned down the chiefs he married. He married a young wife basically at one point. And now she left him and took the last of his three children with her now. So took all his kids, left him. They burned it, shut down. So he's he's all depressed. He's also depressed of the apocalypse. Didn't happen. This is the eighties.
It's like I've been saying, there's an apocalypse for the last 15 years and it hasn't happened. So then he's getting all bummed out about that. So in nineteen eighty nine, he blew his brains out and he couldn't take it anymore.
So he's got to be merry. He's got to be related to Ronnie. Right from Leonard Skinner. I know.
I mean there's a lot of sense I don't know if he's related to you could be related to the guy in Bruce Springsteen's band who played Silvio on The Sopranos, too. I mean, everyone knows there's a lot of it. That's a very common name. Is it really? Yeah, it's exciting. It's a Dutch name. Very common, I'm not mistaken. So the monument ended up becoming a historic site, Nevada state historic site in 1992. And now they kind of have tours and shit there and all this type of thing.
So then I found this is a description of the town. This is from Nevada Web.com because it's a very small town. There's no reviews. So I had to find like a this is in it's it's an article called Imlay and MIL City History. Imlay was a railroad town established in 1869 on the Central Pacific. It's now a windblown confusion of tattered roof shingles and swooning porches and a small crosshatch of dirt streets.
Oh, my gosh, that's the town. It says diesel locomotives, locomotives rush through their air horns blaring to remind old Imlay of the long ago days when the railroad was king and dozens of little settlements like MLK were built to serve it. Now the interstate is king, and Imlay is all but invisible, except for the monument to Native Americans on the other side of the freeway. So that's all they have is Thunder Mountain.
This is like the town that that Cars was written about.
Kind of. Yeah, like there's got to be a fast one in there somewhere. Was that muscle car ranch in Oklahoma. Maybe that's what they're talking about. So the mountains here, the Majuba mountains are a mountain range here and lots of gold there has come out of that place. So that's the thing.
People here are two hundred and twenty seven is the population. Not thousand. Not a lot. Just two hundred twenty seven. So which is it. And that's all which is up sixty seven percent since 1990. Wow. So shows you that hermit life is becoming more popular. Everyone look out for the next TV show, Hermit Life. It's not right after Nevada. It's run right after tiny house living. It'll be tiny house hunters and tiny owls living and then hermit life and then van life after that, whoever the fuck they do where people live in an RV, even though they're twenty four orders and just all the all the awful ways human beings live.
All right. This is how people want to look at bad decisions people have made. Isn't this wonderful. Male and female here is pretty even median age is low, thirty two point seven. That's about five years younger than normal. Everyone is in the twenty five to thirty four or the zero to four year old range. OK, there's nobody else here. It's pretty much just of a very few people of any other. There are zero people over the age of 75 in this town.
Zero. I can't hack it. Well, it's probably to all the old nuclear testing that they used to do probably went up and settled into the mountains. I'm sure you just you Parrish Young here, who knows? It'll take you. They'll take you. They'll take you married population a little bit higher. It's like fifty five percent. But when it's so low of population, there's not enough. Everything's fucked, it's off all that's everything's all fucked out.
Jimmy, as we've said, divorce rate here. Normally it's ten percent. Here it is, thirty seven point two percent of the people are divorced. Wow. So that's a lot in this area here. The single with no children, you can't go out and party and make zero point zero percent.
So if you meet someone one no. If you meet someone and go home with them, they will definitely go. My kids are asleep. At some point during the interaction he'll go is that I'm sitting on serios is not a thing. A lot of serious shit. There's also there's a lot of Cherryholmes between your couch cushions race of this town. One hundred percent white. So there you go. That's all it is. Zero zero down the line is hilarious.
Zeroed out for. The rest of it here, religion, twenty four point three percent of the people are religious, there's no God in the minds. Jimmy, when you're that deep in the earth, yeah, God can't get down in that. You can hear the devil. Yes, God is the canary. Jimmy, when you get down that deep.
Yeah, it's this place sucks. This place is a shithole. Let's just say that I. I don't want to move here. How about that. And let's make a pact. Neither of us are ever going to move to L.A. Nevada has that.
I don't I'm never going to be there ever. I can't hack it.
No. I'll drive right by us at that rolling thunder. Let's go. Keep going. Or Thunder Mountain at twenty four point three percent of the people here are religious. It's spread around pretty good. There's, you know, a little of this, little of that. A couple of Mormons here. And only thing there was zero point zero percent Jewish like. I don't think so. We are not going there. Zero point zero percent Muslim as well.
Politically in this town. The whole county, by the way, because we kind of do this by county politics. The county only has about 6000 people in the whole county. So it's not a real and there is 6000 people spread out throughout like little literally like mountain shacks. It's a weird place. Different towns. Yeah, it's it's so it's thirty little towns are very strange. So I don't know that there would be any like collective thought process is what I'm getting at.
Everybody's separated. So whatever it is, it's just, it's random. It's twenty, twenty two percent Democrat in the last election. Seventy one percent Republican, seven point five percent independent, which is less than I would think a place like this. I think it'd be like sixty eight percent independent. Just I voted for nobody that other people like. All right. Someone moved here because fuck it all.
Yeah. Because fuck all. There's a candidate whose slogan is fuck all, God damn it. And I think I'm I'll vote for him. He's a guy from the mines. He just works right next to me. He said to write down the votes for people like the guy that ran the cathouse. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. That guy. So unemployment rate here is a little bit higher than the rest of the country. Median household income, though, is also high because the jobs are dangerous and they pay well.
So it's the median household income, seventy six thousand one hundred sixty four dollars, which is, holy shit, way higher than the fifty seven thousand range. Most of the people here make seventy five thousand one hundred thousand in that range. The cost of living here, one hundred being regular average. Here it is. Seventy four. So cost of living is low housing thirty six point five.
James is low. I take it back. This place fucking rules.
Now you see the houses median home cost eighty four thousand five hundred dollars, which is extremely excessively low.
So if we've convinced you to grab yourself a pick in a pan and head on out to the Majuba mountains and after you check out Thunder Mountain, of course, we have for you the Elmaleh, Nevada real estate report, your average two bedroom rental here, which I couldn't find existing anywhere.
But in theory, it's seven hundred dollars for your average two bedroom rental. I found this house, Jimmy. I'm going to show you the picture. I turn the monitor toward your hair. Oh, boy. Take a look at that bad boy. This.
What the fuck is that back porch falling off.
It's I mean, I guess. But I think they're going to go with it.
I think they're going to go it and just hang out and put a like it was built that way in the first place. There's a chain link fence around the porch, which is not touching. Don't see that very often. It's basically three bedroom, one bath, nine hundred ninety eight square feet. It's a murder house. It looks like several families were butchered in their inlike consecutive years. A new family moved in. They were butchered to death. They cleaned the bodies out, wiped up the chalk outlines and moved another one.
And it's in Lovelock, which is right down the road here from my I could only find one house in Imlay proper here.
So this this is an awful house, fifty nine thousand nine hundred bucks. So I found it's an awful place. They found a two bedroom, one bath, fourteen hundred forty square foot. This is the one in actual Imlay proper. The only one. Right. The real estate listing says, quote, Truly a diamond in the rough boy built light is a mining term.
Well, yeah, that's I think that's what you're there for. Built in 1910. So by miners, probably this recently renovated and remodeled two story home as old school architecture mixed with modern style and appeal and comforts.
It's not that nice, by the way. Two hundred forty five thousand bucks for that.
For a house built in 1910.
That's only fourteen hundred square feet. Yeah. In the middle of the desert, there's mountains, two bedroom, one bath, thirteen hundred sixty eight square foot. Absolute. It's a it's you're buying land. The house is a tiny little piece of shit actually. It's all fucked up this house. It's not that three hundred square feet is tiny but the house is trashed. It's not great. Two hundred forty acres, though, farm, farm and ranch with 52 acres of underground water rights, 350000 dollars.
OK, I got it. Water rights are in Colorado and Nevada, 100 acres that are in the woods.
You can't give water to those.
Yeah, you know, I think out of the two hundred forty acres, 52 acres of it as water rights. Right. That's what I'm saying. The other recip. Yes. They don't have water rights because they're too far away.
Exactly. Things to do here. Burning Man festival is one that's here that's in this county. It's like half in this county and half in Humboldt County. It's right there it is. I'll read their Wikipedia that they've described it Burning Man as a festival focused on community art, self-expression and self-reliance held annually in the western United States. The event derives its name from its culmination, the symbolic burning of a large wooden effigy referred to as the man this that occurs at the penultimate night of Burning Man, which is Saturday evening before Labor Day.
So this is going to be dirty. Don't shower for two fucking weeks. That's disgusting.
I don't know anything about Burning Man, except I remember on Reno nine one one, they were going to go out there and try to quote, typical, just like wacko. And they yeah, they dress like, I don't know, like they were basically like they shopped in a sex shop for their outfits and then went out with, like, tiny leather things and like, weird shit on their heads. And I think Burning Man essentially that it's just open minded.
Do whatever you want. There's no judgment here except for the fact that you're all naked in dust and it's fuckin gross.
I saw a picture of it. I got a huge dust storm engulfing it. Will all the people standing there, I was like, oh, God, why would you go to the desert? I looked over here.
It started out being free and a few thousand people showed up. And then like five years later, it was like a ten dollar donation requested. So you didn't have to. Now, in twenty eighteen, low income ticket prices are one hundred and ninety dollars.
That's if you can prove you don't have money, you can get one if you can prove a hardship, a hardship for two hundred dollars presale tickets. Nine hundred ninety dollars.
Holy shit. Presale art tickets. Twelve hundred dollars. This vehicle passes 80 bucks to park in an expanse I have one thing they have out there, it's fucking parking. It's an expensive nothing. You're charging people to park there you out of your goddamn mind. It's fucking Mad Max with music. It's crazy. And the the next year it even got more expensive. Twenty nineteen, but seventy eight thousand eight hundred fifty people showed up in twenty nineteen. So it's a it's a big deal.
Yeah. There was a big they had a big beef with the county because they said they needed this many security guards security there. But then more people showed up and they didn't pay for the extra security. So the county's mad at them. It's weird. So that and of course, Thunder Mountain Ranch, you can go there. That's the things that are around park. Sorry. And then also there's one thing it says, just drive up the IAP.
That's nothing to do here. Road trip highlights buckaroo arts and culture. So, I mean, boy, who doesn't want that? And then Western Folklife Center. Oh boy. Can't wait for that crime rate in this town. What we're interested in, Jimmy, was this is a strange one. Property crime is low. It's about twenty five percent under the national average. So, OK, which makes sense. Everyone spread out or who are you stealing from?
And then violent crime, murder, rape, robbery and assault. The Mount Rushmore of crime is high. It's about 50 percent over the national average and violent crime. So I feel like these people go out, they work in the mines, they get shitfaced, then they beat the piss out of each other. That seems like it probably happens. I'm just just judging off of whatever. I think that's what's going on here. So that sad Jimmy, this wonderful little dusty mountain town where 80000 people come.
Let's talk about a murder, shall we? Let's do this. I think, James. That's why I'm here. Let's do it.
OK, now I'm putting up with this this shit down for this. You have to even know it exists for this now. No, don't say that, because people will be like, yeah, I put up with the town stuff, too. Jimmy hates it all. So that's a people.
We say like, no, that's not this. That's the fun part. We wish the whole show could just be the town. That's the thing you guys don't nobody understands is if it was up to us, if we could have the same amount of listeners, that's what the show would be. We do like the town and do like three a show with like three towns and we laugh our asses off and go home. It'd be fantastic. But instead, someone's going to die for your blood lust.
Fine, fine. Everybody, let's talk about a murder.
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So this place we're going to talk about here, this actual home is northwest of Imlay, it's in the Majuba mountains mining area here. So everyone involved that that's anywhere around here is a miner. There's nobody does anything else unless it's like the one guy who runs the general store, whatever everybody else is a miner. The only reason to be here, you don't go here just to get away from it all. It's mining and mining only. So this we're going to go back in time a little bit here.
All right. Let's go back let's go back to 1980 and let's do it. Let's grow. Our mullet's out. Yeah. And our mustache is in and we'll do the shave. That beard. Jimmy, it's mustache.
Only in 1980, I was just a little puddle. Yeah, December 3rd, 1980. And we have to talk about a family here, the Strode family as TR Hoddy, the Strode family. First off, is Emmery Dexter Strode. He is the patriarch, 71 years old of the 1980s, born in 1989, which is crazy. But still in 1980, he was still spry. Old Emory was he was a minor. So he's an old school minor, which he's from Colorado originally.
That's a rough life. Yeah, he's an old miner. He's married to a woman named Mary Mabel Strode, Mary Mabel, that sturdy that's she's making pie. Man How many different kinds of pie does she make? Like a lot of them. Right, right. Yeah.
She's like, rhubarb is her jam. You come from the mine. It's cooling on the windowsill. I feel like there's definitely with, like a cartoon dog running toward those rhubarb and makes a pie. Yeah.
Mary Mabel, born in nineteen eighty eight, is a pie lady. Now you could be Mary. Maybe you don't have to make pies, but if you're born in nineteen eighty eight, it's just known that you make pies her cabinets full of flour, sugar shit.
That's down to the first grade. Yeah. She's got it all in there. Also all different preserves all lined up for her pie making. So I think she won the county payoff I believe believe it at that. I believe she won the Burning Man county pay off one year. So she 72 years old. So she's a year older than Emory.
She's a she's a cougar. Jimmy, what do you want? And then they have a daughter as well named Miriam. Miriam. Laura has her name and she became Miriam Laura Tredwell when she was married in nineteen sixty nine to a guy named William Treadwell. So she's married Miriam. And they also have a son named Frank as well, Frank Strode. So he this is a miracle law. Miriam, I'm sorry, is 41 years old in 1980, by the way.
And Frank is her younger brother. So the family had a gold and silver mining property. That's where they lived. They have this little house to small house. Yeah, it's on a big area where they own some of the property so they can go mining. That's what they do. It's a mine and family. This is a this is a different way to live. We haven't we have not talked a whole lot about some like, you know, rural miners out there in the middle of nowhere.
That's a different one. Yes.
It feels like there's like twelve people to do it. I'm sure there's a lot. Well, in this town around here, there's only two hundred seventy one. It's just not a lot of it's a different kind of lifestyle now to live out there. Do you have none of the conveniences of modern day? And you really have to have been either either not like people or have burned your bridges that badly. Other places. This is like going to Alaska, you know what I mean?
Like you're there for a reason. You came you didn't just stumble across this place. It's hard to find.
So I enlisted in the Air Force and you landed in fucking Alaska. Or you like her running from something?
Yes, that's what it is. And that's what Nevada was back in the day as well. You know what I mean? It really was people went there. They'd go to Vegas in the early days of it just because they heard it was sleazy. So they thought they'd fit right in. That sounds like my place. It was. Yeah, they're like cats. You could do anything there. It's great. So now so they all are living their lives.
We'll talk about Miriam because Miriam's got some struggles. She has. She's nearly blind. Miriam, like the forty one year old daughter. We'll talk about exact things that she has a problem wise, but she also has trouble walking as well. So shit she's, she's hurt and she's got some problems, some, you know, physical problems, health problems. Now on December 3rd. Nineteen eighty, Frank and Linda, who is Frank's wife, they all the Frank and Linda and the parents live in the house.
I don't think Miriam lives there. So anyway, Frank and Linda come home. They've run away for Thanksgiving. I don't know where they went. They've had enough of you fucking people.
I'm not going to spend a day with, you know, maybe half a day off, maybe her. Families, OK? I don't know where where her family lives, I'm sure they don't live in the fucking mountains. So and I don't know when they came here because they're from Colorado originally, like they're they were all born in Colorado. And then I don't know exactly where different places to Frank was born here. Marium over here, the wife, Mary, Mabel over here.
So Frank returns with his wife from a Thanksgiving trip on December 3rd. So that's a it's a long trip. And they they get all the way out there, all the way out in the mountains, winding, you know, back dirt roads and all that sort of shit. And they get there. And I guess Miriam had just moved into there recently. He enters the trailer, by the way. It's a trailer. Yeah. In case you were thinking.
And what he sees is a blanket in a bedroom for his call and nobody's there. He can't find anybody. So he goes into a bedroom looking for people and he finds all three. He finds Emmery, Mary and Miriam all under a blanket in the bedroom, all of them bleeding all over the place. Wow. They appear to have puncture wounds, bullet holes. There are there's blood all over the place. And Emery has a butcher knife sticking out of his chest.
OK, so, you know, accident, clearly a large accident. Everyone in the house, he he cut his finger and then someone tried to help him and he tripped and he stabbed himself. And then someone was so distraught, they shot themselves. You know how it works. Yeah. You know how these things happen out in the mining country. Oh, my gosh. So, yeah, this is a terrible scene for this guy.
All three of them are just every way possible that you can be murdered. They're murdered.
They're they're murdered, piled up together under a blanket in the bedroom. And like we said, butcher knife still stand. That's not his only wound. The butcher knife sticking out. He has what appear to be gunshot wounds in him as well. And stab wounds and a butcher knife sticking out of his chest here. So it looks like he's been stabbed twice and then the second time it was left and now they discover that Amory's got a pocket watch in his shirt pocket that has been struck by a bullet.
Oh, and broken and almost saved him all morning. Yeah, that would have been a great story if it's my lucky pocket watch that my granddaddy gave me.
71 year old man born in nineteen eighty nine, laying on the floor.
Pocketwatch. Thank you, Granddaddy, for forgiveness to me. My father survived the war with seven years with this up.
Is that with is up his ass. And then it saved my life being deflecting a bullet. So by the hour hand on the watch was stopped at one o'clock. So that's an interesting it's like a timestamp of when it got when it went down and marry the the woman, the 72 year old, his wife had been stabbed in the back and shot in the chest. Fuck, man. I mean. Seventy two year old woman here, elderly people, elderly.
Now, Miriam, who we've said has some problems. And when I tell you exactly what they are, it'll be even worse to hear this. Her wrists were bound with an electrical cord and she died from a single gunshot wound to the back. That's what they found. Emory and Miriam both kept diaries the with the father and the daughter both had diaries. The last entry on both diaries was recorded on the morning of December 2nd, 1980, which is the day before this.
So sometime between the morning of December 2nd, when they made journal entries to the, you know, December 3rd, when Frank and his wife come in and holy shit, they're under a blanket, something very plain.
I was like at 1:00 p.m. on December 2nd of this.
Well, that's the thing. That's what it seems like it would be. So you can look at these clues and go, well, I mean, shit, that's pretty cool. I mean, obviously, at least they're not cool that everybody's dead. But you can if you're looking for clues and you go, I don't know when the fuck this happened, it's a trailer. And I mean, you know that the elements are different out here in the middle of the mountains.
It's cold in the winter still sometimes. But there's a goddamn time stamp. And a journal entry like this is a modern day. It's like a screen shot. This is the bottom, the 1980 equivalent of a screen shot, a broken pocketwatch with a bullet hole in it and a goddamn diary entry dated the morning of. Yeah, it's amazing. So the police are obviously called in and they search the whole area and they say they have few clues to indicate why somebody would do this.
They have no enemies in the area. The daughter has no enemies. They're nice people that, you know, everybody kind of gets along out in the mining mountains out here. They all know each other. Everybody kind of keeps their distance, but yet they help each other if they need to. You know, it's kind of how you could survive out there. And the only way it's if everybody was a little little wacky like that. I saw a documentary there's a documentary on this area in Nevada that is just completely like not has no services, no nothing in these people.
Just live there anyway. How do you it? They grow their own shit, kind of, but it's near like an Army site or an Air Force site that they can't like, that's boarded right up against it. So, like, it's super weird. They don't know what kind of testing is going on around them. And they're still they just live there. And it's all people that are like at their you know, they're at the last stages of something or they're they all have these stories.
None of them are like, well, you know what? I was born in Cleveland, Ohio, and I went to college and I did this. And a couple of years I said, you know what? I really want to farm nothing in the desert. That's what I want to do. You know, marketing isn't for me.
So this is where I'm at. This is I always loved the desert sea.
So I watched a documentary about the Unabomber. He said, dump the whole stinking thing. And I was like, you know what? He's right.
He's right. I've heard this before from other people, but from him, it makes sense. I don't know what it is. When I hear from the Unabomber, he speaks to me.
So this is all on Twitter, like, yeah, that guy had it all figured out. It's like, dude, you're and off Twitter right now, you're doing exactly what he hate.
Look at his picture and then tell me that guy had it figured out. I'm nuts, you know what I mean?
Like, dude, for longevity of the human race and for society to go for a very long time. Yeah, I could see where you could think. He's got to figure it out. The man never used any fossil fuels, so. Yeah, yeah, fine. But that's not the way you can live. But that's the thing you can OK, you can take ideas. You can't take a big giant idea, take four percent of it that you like and then say the rest of it is true.
The only thing that that's been acceptable for, and it's only because it's for thousands of years is religion. That's it. No, nothing else you're allowed to do that with. So you can't take Ted Kaczynski his whole read his whole manifesto and go. Well, I agree with that, Matt. OK, well, great. Anybody could talk for twelve hours and you'd agree with a couple of things.
Literally anybody if I talk for twelve hours and my two true facts are my name is Jimmy and we shouldn't use so much plastic and you're just going to blindly agree with the rest of my shit. That's what I'm saying. That's what I mean.
It's anybody you could hear for forever. I've heard a lot of Charles Manson, what he said, some of it was true. Yeah. You know, I'm not the crazy shit. I mean, not the fucking race war shit in the the whole and the Death Valley and all that shit. Obviously, that was Earl from Ohio. No, you're not. You're Charles Manson. Yeah. Obviously, that was a little off.
But, you know, I mean, Hitler said some things. I'm sure that we're fucking right. You know, I'm sure there is nothing that you go that makes sense. But then he's probably for fucking screaming in German for the next 20 minutes. I don't like any of that stuff, but I do think that vegetable prices should be lower.
Yes, that's true. But the rest of it of looks like a very, very affordable car. You could still use Whitewell that way. Hey, hold on. Well, you said you like Volkswagen, so guess what, you're on board now.
So anyway, I only mentioned that documentary because I feel like this is kind of this type of area. It's the same type of people that kind of they don't want to be around. If you mention like a city, they're like people in the city. They don't know. Yeah. They don't have to treat each other. They're like shit like that. True. But also not true also.
Yeah, everywhere sucks. So that's why we do the show. So the other thing that's strange that why they can't figure out why this happened is because there are valuables left all over the place in here. Really. Jewelry, it's a trailer. It's not like you can't rip it apart. There's 8000 dollars in cash. In a pretty accessible place, right? Sitting on the dresser that nobody touched either in a 500 dollar trailer. Yeah, like there's no there's no ransacking that went on.
It's just a bunch of death. Like it looks like a fucking mob hit, you know what I mean? Like a make them make it make them suffer and then come home like, you know, don't steal anything or trash the place. Just that's what it looks like. So they the investigators believe the killings occurred sometime between noon and two p.m. sometime right in the middle of that, probably around 1:00, I'm going to say, based on the pocketwatch.
So now let's go back to why they got to give such a big window. You're not able to tell us what it was. We know we get it. So that's December 3rd. He finds the bodies. Obviously, they were killed on December 2nd. So let's go back to December 2nd. On December 2nd, there's a guy named Ray Horn who is a mechanic, has a mind like B works mechanic and says a mechanic for a mining outfit.
I don't know what the hell that means. He fixes trucks and shit. Yeah. So he fixes the machines and does this thing like that. So his name is Ray Horn. He says he doesn't know when, but sometime between twelve thirty and two p.m.. This is before cell phones. You didn't if you didn't have a watch on, you just didn't know what time it was half the time. Right. This guy doesn't set his truck clock to the correct time.
He has it now. So he says that he was driving on a country road near Majuba Mountain and he passed a dark metallic blue truck, which he identified as our I'm sorry, he didn't know who it was. He just saw a dark, metallic blue truck. He said a slender young man was driving the truck and started firing shots at Horn for no reason to stop driving. And all of a sudden this guy puts all of a sudden he puts his hand out the window, starts blocking shots off at this mechanic guy.
And we're just now talking about that. Was that after you heard about a murder? No, he reported this later on. But I feel like two in the mountains, things happen and they're just like, oh, I don't know, I got to go. I got to go pan some shit real quick and I'll get that back with the sheriff later.
The sheriff. And what color was that truck? Blue. All right. I'll just remember that our bullets flying at me.
Blue truck. Yeah. He said he was on his way to L.A. to pick up a spare tire for a fellow miner. That's good. That's good. Helping people, helping your fellow miner. We took a bullet for it.
Well, actually, check this out. He was saw the blue Ford pickup truck that he believed to be Amerie Strads pickup truck. He was like, oh, there's armories. They all know each other in their trucks because they're always driving around. He thought it was Emmery, but then he's like, who's that driving? And then he said the first shot shattered the window of his truck on the passenger side. And he was like a fox every shooting at me, Jesus Christ, God damn memory.
And then he saw I said, hello, am Reiji God? I was waving and I waved, Jesus Christ, I didn't give you the finger, for fuck's sake. So he said that at that point is when he saw the slender young man driving. And obviously, Emery is a 72 year old miner, a 71 year old miner, slender young man's probably not the way you describe him, I doubt. Now, Horne said at first he thought it might have been a rock hitting his window even after it's even after he felt something hit him in the face.
He thought maybe it was a rock hit the hit the window until he he saw a thin young man leaning out the window, firing more shots at him. He said it was a small caliber pistol and this guy's just hanging out the window, shooting at him while he's driving, which is insane. So he he said that at that point he said, quote, Something hit me in the face. And so he put his hand in his beard and he retrieved a hot piece of metal, which was just the bullet hit him.
Must have, like, just not hit him in the face but didn't penetrate the window, slowed it down enough. Apparently a good beard. That's a good window. The strength of that window and that beard together literally stopped the bullet. Unbelievable. So bulletproof vest should be made from his window and beard. I fear if you stitch his beard together very closely. Yeah, like like a 4000 count beard thread count.
I feel like they get Kevlar from it's from a guy named Kevin's Beard. It's it's from a miner's beard. Feel like that's what it's I feel like a miner. A mechanic for a miner is even more rugged than miners like his. That's a hard man. Yeah. He's not even getting gold. He's just like just make sure he doesn't have wrenches and sockets.
He just uses his hands.
Yeah, they're just all calloused and that's that now. Yep. So he said he threw the metal down because it was hot and then he said it hit his arm and fell out of his truck at that point. So that's how that ended up working. And then he said after that he took off because he realized he was being shot at and he said he was chased by this blue truck at speeds of up to one hundred miles an hour across a.
Down a dirt road north of Imlay, wow, so there's two trucks, ones hanging out the window, firing at the other one with a big dust cloud behind them, going 100 miles an hour in the desert, miles an hour on a dirt road is so scary. Oh, that's insane. If you move 50, then you're going to flip. I was losing my mind. This is crazy.
They're just breaking ass here up to 100.
I mean, I'm sure if you went around a curve or whatever, but still not a little bit with him and shots at him. So this is this is wild. So once they put that together, they they say, oh, it was Amory's truck shooting at you. So they figure whoever was shooting at you, good chance he's the guy that probably killed everybody.
He waited all day to tell that story. Yeah. Yeah, that's well, yeah, that's what I mean. That event happens in my life.
I'm talking about it for a week. Well, I'm sure he talked about it at the mine, but unfortunately, the sheriff wasn't around to hear and I don't know. It's unbelievable. He couldn't post it on Instagram. Yeah. OMG, crazy stuff just happened. I pulled an actual bullet out of my beard with all this with a picture of a shattered passenger side window. That's what it would be now.
Hey, I'm sorry to interrupt your day. I'm going live. I'm doing a hundred and twelve hundred and twelve down a dirt road right now. Sorry about the noise I do out the window because I'm smoking now and a man shooting at me and all Emery's truck. Yeah. That night. Y'all know that every strode. Oh man I hate nice man, but boy oh boy. That was a gunshot. That was a gunshot. Whoever he loaned his truck to is a real asshole and not that good a shot either.
But still he's trying hard.
So yeah. Based on so this police force, they've really stacked it up based on the stopped pocket watch at the exact time of the shooting. They deem that it's somewhere between 12 and two, you know, and based on shots being fired at a man for no reason in the truck of a stolen truck of the dead man who was also shot to death, they're thinking maybe they're connected. So they're really hot. There are two for two the cops right now here, the fire on all cylinders.
Yeah. And then once they hear all of this, they're like, I was probably the same guy who we heard also fired shots at a group of miners who were in the vicinity driving along as well. This is before the Rayhan incident, apparently saw a bunch of guys in a truck and just started shooting at them as well. He just killing everybody, trying to. The only the only damage that he's done outside of the house so far is the passenger side window and probably a tiny bald spot on hold.
Ray's beard. Right. So they said, quote, We think the incidents are related. Genius. That's from the sheriff. Thanks, Sheriff. He says, Not likely. We got too nutty as people running around this town.
The miners had been working at the Iron Mask Mining District nine miles west of Majuba Canyon. They weren't injured. The suspect was spotted again at three thirty pm when he ran out of gas near Danio, which I'm just going to say denial because you should be denied. It's Dencio, which is just north of the Nevada Oregon border. He was driving the nineteen eighty dark blue Ford pickup truck with California license plates on it that belonged to Emery Stroud. A couple stopped to help him.
And later on, when they heard about all the shootings and the truck, what kind of truck it was, that's when they reported it to the police. They said that after he got gas, they helped him get gas. Then he headed northwest toward the Oregon California border. That's what they said. They're now authorities said that radio reports, because there was all sorts of radio reports out there like, oh, yeah, beware. And also, you know, people turn in their crackle and radios up in their pickup trucks.
They said that basically they named a suspect what they named a suspect on the radio. And they put out more reports to say that's a that's false. That's not right. The radio named a suspect, but the suspect was just the former owner of the pickup truck. Oh, he's the guy that sold it to Emery. So that's how they did that. And they ended up somehow getting it confused and putting that on the air as whatever this guy's like a thousand miles away.
He has nothing to do with anything. What they said he was a murder suspect. So the they said they had they've talked to several witnesses and they said, we believe we have some witnesses before and after the killings in the general area makes sense. Between three thirty and four pm, Earl Al Smith, the highway maintenance worker, saw a man fitting that description standing on a road between Danio and Winnemucca and provided him a ride because he ran out of gas.
So this is this deal here and then a. One hundred and ten, that's the ideal run right out of gas. He was later observed traveling at an extremely high rate of speed in the same blue truck, which was identified as SRODES. And they so they're searching the area near the Nevada Oregon border that day to try to find him. He's described a suspect described as being in his early 20s, medium length hair and considered extremely dangerous and armed.
Yeah, yeah. If you see him, he'll shoot at you. So that'll do it. And they also said that they're looking for him. And one other thing, they said he was preoccupied with Pyramid's possibly, and had a drawing of an inverted pyramid inside another pyramid on the leg of his pants. OK, so that's what they said. That's what they're looking for now, which is that's very specific at that. Although in nineteen eighty people had run all over their jeans all the time, that was good.
70S left over. So anyway, back to the third way after we found back to our timeline here, back to December 3rd, the pickup truck is eventually found near Bellingham, Washington, abandoned there.
It's a long ride. It's a long ride.
Also, there is a murder that happens near there that we don't get into until a little later.
So January 4th, nineteen eighty one a month later. Wow. A full month later, the calendar has flipped to the next year. There's a man in Florida. Here he is. This is the craziest fucking arrest I've ever heard in my life. This is like this is like a crime in sports athlete that did like, you know, two eight balls, a Coke and just went ballistic on the rest. This is this is what this sounds like, OK?
A man is arrested while standing on the bumper, the rear bumper of a station wagon gripping the luggage rack, screaming obscenities as an elderly couple drove down the street at a slow rate of speed. That's how he's arrested. Welcome to Florida.
Welcome to standing on the rear bumper by the holding by the luggage rack inside of the benches. You fucking pull over right now, you cocksucker.
LOL, you literally scream and shit like that on the interstate, Jimmy, while on the interstate. That's a Florida Uber.
Really, that's a that's that's what I'm giving you. One fucking star is bullshit. You didn't have a fucking party up on the fucking water. How am I supposed to charge my phone. I just got off the goddamn plane and it's fucking my fucking service isn't a ride.
This isn't this isn't fun. Why are there so many people in the car?
Don't keep picking people up when your you're cartful start, they pull them over. They're like, sir, you're not allowed to have people riding on your bumper. No, you don't understand. So pandemic, I got six kids to feed. I love the way the newspaper put it. This is the the officer's name is Glass. He's a highway patrol trooper. He says that he quote, he found where he found this man perched on the rear bumper and clinging to the luggage rack of a yellow station wagon as it drove slowly down the interstate.
I want to know it slowly is to them. It's an old old couple in Florida, probably eight miles an hour. Twenty five. So they when they asked the man his name, as that would obviously be a curiosity, he replied to the cop, you know, do make a name up, maybe something like that. He says and I quote, God knew me and my parents knew me. That's it. That's what he said. They're like, what's your name, but I need your name.
And he said, I told you. That's all I'm saying. So if you need to know, ask either God or my parents wanted to tell whoever you can get a hold of first, I'm not sure one of those, Sellery. I mean, my mom never answers her phone. She screams at the answering machine. So probably try God, I would think first, but that maybe leave her a message. She might get back to you. I'm not sure.
So he's arrested. The man arrested for hitchhiking, by the way. That's creative. That's a created I don't know.
What else do you call that? I don't know. What the fuck do you call that? Because all the penalties, like all the tickets you would give would be to the driver for someone doing that. Right. You know what I mean? There's no penalty. They didn't even make a law thinking someone would try to do that on the highway, like drive it like it's a shopping cart and you're nine years old and not at all.
But this isn't illegal. What can we classify it as?
I mean. Well, yeah, I guess the seatbelt violation. No, that's to the driver, too.
What about the fact I mean, a helmet, he probably should have a helmet on doing that. Right. Is there a helmet law for dangling off the back of his head?
I guess it's Aykan and it's on the I tend to his eyes, but it's on the tab. It's like seven lane or seven lanes on each side. The car driven by an elderly couple. He was hitchhiking on the side of the road and they slowed down. I guess he like veered got like out into the lane trying to make them stop. So they slowed way down and tried to avoid hitting him because, you know, they're an elderly couple driving.
They were going to keep going.
Yeah, they're just jump on. Or what he did is he leaped onto the vehicle's roof while he jumped on to the hood and then crawled up onto the roof for the luggage rack and ended up like scurrying his way back to standing on the bumper while holding on the luggage rack the entire time, screaming obscenities and threats.
By the way, he jumped on the hood, got of my pictures, and then he crawled his way right around of making me crawl all the way to the back of that fucking bopper. Jesus Christ. It's like a Mel Gibson in a Lethal Weapon movie. It's what it is. He's chasing Gary Busey over here. What the fuck is happening? And imagine them in the car like ba boom. He's climbing up. Martha, do you know him?
What are we supposed to pick somebody? Like what? The shit's happening is calling us anti-Semitic.
Shit, that's what I mean. So that he was still clinging to the car like a cop caught him in the act of, you know, hanging on the back. All they wanted to do was give him a ticket for hitchhiking. They weren't even going to put cuffs on the man. Right. OK, ticket for hitchhiking. But he wouldn't give his name and refused to sign the ticket. He wouldn't even he wouldn't do it. He said, nope, I'm not telling you my name.
So they said, OK, well, then you're under arrest, you stupid idiot. So they arrest him, they get to the police station. He gives them three different Social Security numbers.
Oh, no, it's like I don't even know what the fuck you do with that. Who is this asshole? You know what I mean? Give us your name, sir.
That's all we want. You can go the fuck we don't want you here.
Yeah, you are out of your mind. Do you think I want to be like you? We feel the same way. We hope you're not from here. We have enough of you in Florida. Really. I know you're someone's cousin here, but still you have to go back where you're from. That crocodile, you're. Oh, Jesus. He said that the cop said, quote, I knew I had something other than just a hitchhiker like, yeah, you had a real you got a real sixth sense for calm down.
So he gives three to three different Social Security numbers and three different names. OK, so they just they just run all the names. Let's just see what we come up with on all of them. On one of them, the National Crime Information Center computer, the NCIC check that they run appeared on, it appears, a triple murder warrant from Nevada for the murder of the SRODES.
So they arrest him for that and they're going to see what the hell is going on. Now, he they arrest him. Like I said, he's charged with soliciting a ride on the interstate and refusing to sign a citation. That's what they charge him with, soliciting a ride. That's a little more than soliciting a ride. I would say that's pretty great. You got you need a new law for that. You're not allowed to forcibly jump on to people's cars and ride them.
I feel like that's hijacking. And yes, that's you know what? That's like a pirate thing. It's not even hijacking. It's like pillaging. You're like piracy. That's piracy. So now he's being held here. He gave his name as three different names. He gave his name as Mark James or Joseph, by the way. It shows up differently in different court documents of the same case, literally the same document. He'll have it two different ways.
So Mark James or Joseph Rogers, then also Mark Joseph Haydock h e y Duke Haydock is another one. Then he gives the name of quote, TPE Fox. Yeah, not t dot p di. TDP t.P Fox is his other name that he gets because he's a native, so they don't know who the who, and he has Social Security numbers for everybody.
So, like, it's crazy. No, none of them match the names, of course, at random number jumbles, but. So he said they said, come on, tell us who you are. And he said, listen, it's all about God, my parents, God knows me, and we're all part of Mother Nature. Oh, boy. I'll say that much. And that's it. So and yeah, it's like, well, I guess we just believe anything he says, because I agree with two of the things that how it works.
I agree with that. That's fine. So I guess whatever he says is right. Yeah, he's fine. Everyone's allowed to ride on people's cars from now on. So during fingerprinting, he cracks a little bit. He refuses to speak, but he s he motions for a pen, a piece of paper to write something down. He writes down on a piece of paper that he belongs to the government. OK, that's it. And he gives a nod and he's like, mm hmm.
And then he won't say anything else. Yeah, I belong with the government. So they're like, OK, once they get his fingerprints, they realize that this is how they found, you know, the man they were looking for regardless of his name, his fingerprints were lifted from various items in the Strode residence, including a diet seven up can cross a glass jar found in the bedroom under the blanket with the victim's bodies as well. Also, a plate on the kitchen table, a glass with coffee in it, a sugar container and a nondairy powdered cream container.
She's he's the fastest man alive, that's all. He's just drinking pound and he's got three different drinks. He's got a plate. God knows what he ate there. What we find out, I think he ate a plate of beans. They found out. So he came to this house, ate a plate of beans, had a cup of coffee. We find out he brought the seven up with him. He didn't raid their soda stash diet seven up.
That's just soda water. And it's just disgusting is what it is.
No caffeine, no sugar carbonated shit.
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Read Dotcom and our listeners get ten percent off plus free shipping on their first color kit with the code small town murder, that small town murder at dad Madison. Dasch read Dotcom today. And now back to the show. So he said they said diet, I was like that they have diet seven up back then. I guess they did, though. I guess they did. So I guess they said they just they got him as a suspect because they have the fingerprint evidence and also the eyewitness identification.
The district attorney in Nevada said the murders were pretty brutal. The suspect also stole the victim's car. There was no motive we know of. We've put it down to being the work of a psychopath in technical terms. Thanks, District Attorney Guy that's just setting up. Well, he's an irredeemable psychopath that you just put that in the water before a trial. You know, like that's I don't think that's correct. All right. So anyway, they said that he was the focus of a manhunt that ranged into Canada, but they said he had no idea that he went to Florida at all.
A John Doe warrant listing several aliases was filed based on his fingerprints so that they were looking in the northwest for him. Still, they said this is the D.A. said, quote, We were hot on his trail and the truck turned up in Bellingham, in Bellingham, Washington, and they said that he may have crossed the border as well. So it's it's like fucking crazy. Then once they get him in a jail cell in Florida and they tell him that he's charged with murder, he blurts out that he didn't that he did kill everybody.
But in self-defense, it was all very self defense.
Obviously, the whole family, 17 year old couple and their daughter, who has their.
Nancy, disabled daughter. Yeah, yeah. That's they usually offer that's what they do. They they lure in a stranger, offer them beans and coffee. Right. And then try to kill them. That's how you do it. Like whenever that's what you say, you know, you catch more flies with beans and coffee than you do. With vinegar, that's the diet supplement, oh, absolutely, I don't know why they must like the bubbles, because there's nothing else in it to come on over.
James for beans and coffee. How do I get when we're done here? Can we go to your kitchen and get some beans and coffee? That's all I want. I'm not going I'm not going to start inviting to sleep at your house. You should come. I'm doing all right. I'll come by for some beads of coffee sometimes come over and have some beans and coffee.
Even better for to go out with them for beans and coffee and go out, get some beans and coffee.
Well, yeah, it's like a plate of beans and a cup of coffee.
If you are single, get on, get on tinder. Fire that shit up and send that as a message.
Hey girl, I want to go out for beans and coffee beans and coffee.
If she says yes, she really she must really have like a backlog in her stomach or something because she really wants to fire out its beans and coffee be the worst thing to eat on a date. An hour later, you'll both be sitting there just holding their stomachs going, no, I'm good. I'm going to take a walk around the block real quick. I'll be right back. Let's see if your date we'll fart on the first day. Yeah, beans and coffee.
I mean, it's a terrible day. So they knew to look for a very dangerous, vicious man who's definitely gassy. That's what they check. All the truckstop bathrooms. He's probably been there. That truck made it from Nevada to Washington on his ass and it ran out of gas before the end of four.
He got out of Nevada.
He made it all the way to get all the way there. So rayhan the Kevlar beard guy. Yeah, he Kevlar beard identifies him as the same guy who was shooting at him. So they have that to put together there now.
Mark James Rogers, Mark Joseph Rogers, Mark James Haydock TFP Fox, Epee Fox. Who the fuck is this man? Let's find out who he is. Jesus Christ. Well, he is a part time actor who lived in Hollywood shortly before he passed through this area. Why? He's twenty three years old and he was in Hollywood trying to be an actor and apparently lost his fucking mind and decided to go through the desert for no reason and end up doing this.
He had no wow. His story is whacked here. So like we said, he identifies himself as Mark James Roberts are Mark James Rogers. Later on, the check revealed that the NCIC thing revealed that he was Haydock was Mark James Haydock. And the district attorney said, hey, duck is the name we know him by. That's the name on his birth certificate. We know he has family in California. Yeah, but that's not really the name on his birth certificate because I did some research here because it must be the name on his ID, but on his birth certificate, because we find out that his brother is Edward Haydock Jr.
and his mother's name is Susan Erdmann and Kenneth Haydock. Kenneth Haydock is his brother and Edward Haydock Senior is his adoptive father. So apparently he's got I think his mother is his mother. His father. This is his stepfather against the who adopted him. God, but I don't know who Rogers is. That must be his father's name because that's not his mother's name, his mother or perhaps he just because the world will never go see a movie. Maybe.
But I think that was actually Rogers is actually his name name. I think that's his actual original name. And then he took Haydock and then he was using both and then he just TPE Fox he pulled out of his ass because he's crazy. So this was all Fox is a good stage name. That's not bad. No, it's a good one. I think that's what he was going for. He's coming to get work as a Native American. That's how it is.
Even though it's like I'm diabolo white guy. Yeah. Yeah. That rivals it. That's good.
She comes in, they're like, oh, we expected something different and something completely different. You're not what I assumed was going to happen right now. So, yeah, I thought it was going to be a large man with flames tattooed on his head. Bam, bam. Bigelow is coming. We figured he was coming in to say hello to everybody. So I thought it was awfully strange. Bam bam. BIGELOW We wrote a story about a 16 year old girl that was pregnant with starring Michael Sarah.
Very strange, we thought. But you know what? This is what people do there. They're diversifying what they're doing. Sometimes you do that, sometimes you do that malarias.
So he they do a little research on the guy here. They had no idea. They said that he traveled to Florida and he took the exact path that Ted Bundy took to Florida. Really like they don't know if it's on purpose or what, but it was like he did the exact route that Ted Bundy tile to Florida, which is weird, like a strange thing. He is divorced, he's 23, he's been married before, he lived in Ohio for a while, that was where he was recently.
Now his mother lives in Bakersfield, California. So I don't know if he took off. Went to Ohio. Yeah. On his own or whatever. He was married to a woman named Yvonne Sampson. They got divorced apparently. Now, apparently, he was a an informant at one point for the police there. We find out 23 years he's done a lot.
Yeah. And this isn't from him talking shit. This is Ralph Nicholas Forte, who was a police officer from Ohio. He says that in 1976 that Mark Rogers was just going to call him Rogers here because that's his main name. That's what it is. And the court documents Rogers. So he says that Rogers was indicted for selling hash at one point he was doing had a pretty decent sized hash operation. And following the indictment, they made him an offer to become an informant for a reduced sentence and he took it.
So he takes that. He agrees to snitch. And the officer said that he worked closely with Rogers for about seven months and became close to both Rogers and his wife throughout that period. Now, this officer says that he did have some problems with Rogers during that before during the time and after the time that he was working with them as an informant, specifically that Rogers was giving drugs to this officer's wife, which is a problem.
That's what I mean. Come on, man. So he Jesus Christ. And so at one point, he's arrested and found in possession of weapons and burglary tools as well. And he ends up, I guess Rogers threatened the officer who arrested him as well, that, you know, he's going to have him killed and all this shit here. So apparently that the he had threatened Fortey as well. And what he did say that Rogers, it was pretty common for informants to threaten you.
He said, you know, you're working with criminals, so. Right. They're threatened. You like criminals do. And he said that that was normal. But he was a good informant. He said he was a besides the side threatening my life and giving my wife drugs. I got to say, the guy did a bang up job, pretty good leeriness, did a fucking good job this guy had gayly.
He said that he said Rogers never acted on the threats. So, you know, he's a good guy. He apparently had pleaded guilty to felony aggravated assault in 1976 and then another felony, aggravated assault charge in 1977. He's had some issues. This is Rogers here in the 1976 aggravated assault. He received a sentence of one to five years in prison, but the sentence was suspended and he was given one year of probation. That was probably because of his former work.
That was the incident happened at a party where he and another man had been drinking and got in a fight. Marc suffered a broken nose. Rogers gets a broken nose and he cuts a man with a beer bottle. So it was a broken man. That's like for like that's how you that's how it rolls. Yeah, that's a that's a party. He says that, quote, He was only trying to protect himself and that he did not want to get in the fight.
He also said that the victim that he had to stab was under the influence of drugs and alcohol is like. So, you know, that works. I mean, drunk people, you got to kind of hit him with a broken beer bottle. Obviously, that's normal. So the other charge in 1977, he pled guilty but failed to appear for a sentencing hearing. So there was that. The second incident, as the report said here, he he got in trouble and he stabbed another gentleman who was trying to attack him.
He said. So two stabbings in two years is one with a broken beer bottle.
I mean, he's he's got his you can tell what he likes to do. Yeah, well, he said this stabbing was because the people found out he was a snitch and they were threatening him. Oh. So he had to defend himself with stabbing. So he stabbed a guy twice and almost killed him. So he was gonna NEMOTO Yeah. He was lucky to not get attempted murder, only aggravated assault with a weapon.
So what do you do when you're low, Jimmy? You've done all this shit, your super low. You're in Ohio, your you're white, your marriage isn't working out. Yeah. You're fucking you're getting arrested for stabbing people because you're an informant because you got busted for selling hashish, then you're giving it to a cop's wife and all of this shit.
I write a book about this shit.
First of all, you move to Hollywood to fulfill your dream of being an actor as what you do. Jimmy, what else would you do? What? So he does that he moves to Hollywood to fulfill his dream, and what he does here is he takes some acting classes, so he's got some training. He moves in with a guy who had just retired and he just retired after doing the only thing I could find that he did on MTV. So this is a strange thing, but he was a an assistant director for a television show.
His name is George Douglas Morrison Jr., the George he doesn't use. He goes by Douglas Morrison Jr., which is hard to find info on because you know what Jim Morrison's middle name is? No, it's Douglas. So when you look him up, all you got is Jim Morrison. So it's very hard. And you have to go to Google page 14 if I can get to this guy. So George Douglas Morrison, junior here he was assistant director, second unit director and assistant director for a television show called Family that ran from 1978 to 1980.
It had, like I saw in the list of all the guest stars that had like every like 80s and 90s actor in it, like when they were young, Helen Hunt was on it and Dana Plato, the Diff'rent Strokes girl, died there. All that. And like all these different Meredith Baxter from Family Ties. Yeah, it was just Baxter at the time. That's what I said. So all of that. Yeah, all these different people were in it, whatever.
So he was in a second assistant director and a second unit director on a bunch of episodes. So that's what he did.
So I moved in with Roger's moves in with this guy. He's an older guy. Yeah. I was going to say, what?
What do you think? This is an odd relationship. Normally some jerk off, you know, a guy with a felony record who just came from the Midwest shows up in Hollywood to be a dream of an actor like there are in a shitload of like people who've worked in Hollywood that are like, oh, I have a spare room.
And that's just not how it works. Listen to the Hotel Cecil bonus episode that we did. And we talk a lot about like that's not how it works. No, it just doesn't even. Yeah, even if you're a twenty one year old attractive girl, they're like, go fuck yourself like this guy. They don't care at all about him. So he moves in with him. This guy ends up like paying for getting his teeth capped and shit.
He pays like eight hundred dollars for him to get his teeth capped so he would have a better world, a better chance if you didn't turn for shit like you can't imagine what you'd have to do for that. I feel like you just have to be a good friend. Yeah, you do. Crossposting Sundays at least, you know, shoulder to cry on. That's all it is. Yeah. You know, you have it's funny stuff. Yeah. Fishing with me.
That's what I mean.
Fishing just in case, you know, something's on your mind. I'm here for you buddy. Talk about it. I just need someone to go with you to the DMV, keep you company, you know what I mean. Just that sort of thing. So shoulder to grip and grin back into my fucking cock. You know how that goes. We'll get into that. They talk to him and ask him the nature of the relationship. And it's pretty interesting here now.
So something else that he was getting into, he got himself hooked up with what he called a guru in Hollywood as well. Yeah. And after that, this guru convinced him that he was receiving messages from God's. So different gods not just like the same God, all sorts of gods, and started him thinking about pyramids gurus and Mount Olympus, and he apparently had some really strange burgoo stew that he mixed up in his mind and came up with all sorts of weird, you know, thought processes and weird like whole worlds.
He figured out based on pyramids gurus, Mount Olympus and mixing it all together in some weird thing. And if you saw that Scientology, you know. Yeah. If you stack that just the right way, you have the perfect Jenga fucking tower and it's perfect and everything's fine.
So L.A.. It's fucking nuts. So he was so upset at one point that he's been, like, totally led astray in the world because he didn't know about the Mount Olympus and the pyramids to that he yanked all the caps off his teeth on his own.
What which sounds painful, does it sound like something you want to just grab a fucking flat head screwdriver and start working? Right? That sounds rough.
Jenna Jamison did that shit. She pulled her own fucking braces off to go dance in clubs because they were like, how old are you? She's like, I'm twenty five. And they're like, you look 16.
Yeah. Because she was yeah. They were like, we'll pay you extra. So she yanked all that shit off her teeth and they're like, how old is she.
Like five now. Like you probably are. Yeah sure.
Honey was my cherry pie is next say year after candy. She's going to do the first half if you come in second chorus is when you come in. That's how it works. Yeah. So yeah, he was upset about that. Now I guess this Morrisson had the, the director guy had paid eighteen hundred dollars for the dental work, so he was like, what are you doing. Later on someone said quote, Marky Mark had only stumps where those teeth were.
Right. So yeah. Because when you get carbs they grind it all down. Yeah. So yeah, that's a problem. Now he's just got these little weird stomp so gross he.
Yeah. I guess he ended up he left his home, he left what's his name. Morison's home. And he'd been living with them in Hollywood. He said he was going up to visit friends in San Bernardino, but he ended up instead in Wells, Nevada on December 1st. That's where he was. He was hitchhiking at Winnemucca the next day and he was picked up by a rancher named Robert Shot and driven to MLI and another guy, David Hartshorn, who was a mining engineer, and Imlay dropped him off in front of the Stroud residence.
That's how this happened. So we found his his path, this Robert shot. He says that on December 1st, nineteen eighty, he's the first guy we gave him a ride. He said he gave this is the day before the killings. He gave Rogers a ride. And he said as soon as Rogers climbed into his truck, Rogers looked nervously into the back of the truck and in the rearview mirror, constantly like real sketchy. And he said that Roger's conversation was very erratic and that Rogers made him uneasy, didn't like having him in the truck.
He said that Rogers introduced himself as John and said that he was a musician going to Reno to look for a job. That was his story. I'm John. I'm a musician, he said. At one point out of nowhere, he just burst out, quote, You may not believe it, but I'm a good American. I'm on your side. I would fight for my country. OK, literally, they were just driving down the road and he was like, huh, wow, literally the guy was like, what was that like?
He said, Did you want to pull over for coffee and beans? Are you out in the report? We're going on a coffee and bean date. I thought that's what this was. So that's what he says. And he's like, OK, like, that's some weird shit to say.
It's not like he's fucking they were driving and the driver turned around, went, your fucking communist are like, no.
So on December 2nd, between 12, 15 and 12, 45 p.m. on December 2nd. So this is, you know, somewhere 45 to 15 minutes before the murder occurred. David Hartshorn, who's a geologist, we said enough when I say he was whatever some kind of engineer. He saw Roger standing alongside the road and offered him a ride. And he said that Roger's introduced himself to him as TPE, you know, and said this is what he said to him.
Hello, I'm TPE. I live in a pyramid.
Yeah, like a TV.
Yeah, no, I'm T.P. That's I mean, he has like a triangle obsession. Yeah, I'm t.P and I live in a pyramid and he might have said, do you mean the other way around your pyramid and you live in a teepee. Because that I get, I've seen it, it sounds a little more believable.
We got a whole lot of pyramids around these parts. It's just outside of Egypt. You don't see a whole lot of pyramids in western United States. It just didn't.
And also, you're going to have to wait about 20 more years for that one to be built down there in that Vegas.
That's all. It's going to be beautiful, though. Is that where you live? You live at the Luxor.
So he loves triangles. And he went to a state with like I think it's the only state with a triangular border.
Got a little weird triangle there down by Vegas with Arizona. So.
Yeah, yeah. He said Haaz Rogers asked him, did you see the pyramid? Like when you picked me up, you saw it, didn't you? And he when he said no, the guy was like, well no, I didn't see the pyramid. Rogers pointed to the North and said, quote, It's up there. Okay. OK, t.P. Hi, I'm TPE, I live in a pyramid, did you see it?
You know, it's over there, so wherever we're going almost there, right?
Oh, OK. He said that this guy Hartshorn this is funny. He told Rogers. No, that's Majuba. What are you arguing with this guy for? This is beyond arguing. You don't argue the point of geography with this fucking guy, right? You know what I mean?
Like this guy, you just go, oh, OK. Yup, there it is. Sure. I'll take you right there. Up here we are. We're at the pyramid by and then you shove them out the door and you peel away and you go off. When a doctor says, wild shit, you just go. Is that right? For real. Wow.
I didn't know that. You say all the time. I didn't know that. Wow. So when he said that's Majuba, he said Robert Rogers got very mad at him and like, clenched his fists and said, no, that's Mount Olympus.
OK, so this is why you don't argue geography with fucking lunatics you pick up on the side of the road who claim to be named T.P and live in fucking Baramidze. You just let that shit go. If you're willing to pick people up on the side of the road, you should be willing to give up a lot, a lot of facts to to just whatever the fuck they say. Yeah.
So, yeah, great. So at this point, Rogers turns to him after the Mount Olympus thing, there was a silence for a minute because this hartshorne was probably like, he's going to he's going to kill me.
This guy I picked up a murderer and said, this is great. He says that Rogers turns to him and says, Are you the one? Were you the one that was shooting those rockets off of Mount Olympus? Those rockets off of Mount Olympus, first of all, Mount Olympus obviously isn't here, right?
Sean says no one may be sorry, and then Roger said good and was, like, relieved. And then he was angry and he said, quote, Somebody is shooting rockets off of Mount Olympus. And one of these days it will hit my pyramid and blow me up.
Oh, boy. So this is fucking ridiculous. Obviously, this is a you know, these assholes, they're trying to they're going to hit my pyramid. Jimmy, this is I'd say this to you all the time. I'm like, dude, please watch my pyramid. It's unacceptable. With the rockets and the pyramids so hard, Sean tries to change the subject and bring it back to small talk out of this type of shit and says, so where are you from?
He literally says, where are you from? And Roger said, quote, This is my land. I own it all as he as he put his arms out to the expanses. Literally this no talking. So, all right.
So you live in a pyramid, you have all the land, but you choose to take this part of it and live in a pyramid. OK, I understand what's happening here. So he said Hartshorn gave him a can of seven up to drink and and he, I guess, went to the Strode residence and dropped him off there as the next house he came upon. Now it makes sense why he dropped him off there. So I'm like, why would you drop him off here?
He didn't request to be dropped off at the Strode house. This guy just dropped him off at a house because he couldn't have him in the fucking car anymore because he's talking about pyramids and rockets and Mount Olympus and shit. It's out of his he's out of his mind. So, yeah, maybe they'll help you drop him off in front of the Strode residence here. Now, there's a sign up at the front of the residence in handwriting that says this property protected by Winchester there.
So, yeah, they're miners in the desert.
Yeah. So Roger's turn to fuckin turn to Hartshorne and said this property is protected by Winchester. Is this a setup? So he was all suspicious that he was like dropping him off to be murdered. Right. So he turned to him and asked if it was a setup. And the guy's like, no, enjoy your Seven-Up by people dropping you off somewhere where at least I know these people are armed.
Yeah, well, maybe they'll take care of a shit. So, yeah, he goes in there, he eats beans. Apparently the family came home like right after he fucking got got in there, he ate some beans at half a cup of coffee. They came home and this happened basically. So on December 5th, nineteen eighty three days after the killings, Rogers had tried to get into Canada. At that point, he was turned away from the Canadian border because the Canadian officials determined he had no means of supporting himself, didn't have any money.
Well, and some vagrant American in here shit all over his legs with. Yeah, with weird pyramids and shit talking about Mount Olympus. Well, this is another reason why when they were talking to him and they said, you can't come in, you don't have any money, blah, blah, blah, he said, sure I can. No one, I don't need money because I got other things going for me. No two borders mean nothing to me because I am the Emperor of North America.
So it's fine. Yeah. Kibbie, the Emperor of North America.
Another when he went to talk to another official, he called himself the King of North America. So we're not sure of his official title. I mean, that's the thing.
We don't know if he is the emperor or the king. I guess you can you can switch back and forth when you're the emperor and the king, you know, so not sure, but the guy in charge, that's all that means.
What he's saying is, I'm fine. I'll go through this border and you don't really have dominion over me here. I'm obviously in charge. I own all of this land. And you talk to the other guy. So they said he said a bunch of other weird shit that it was just like pyramids, Mount Olympus, all this strange shit. And they're like, Yeah, yeah, you're not coming into the country. Sorry. They turned his ass back around.
And they also said that they found the Strads abandoned pickup truck at the scene of an accident. That's where it was ended up being found. He got in an accident, then walked on foot to the Canadian border. Oh, my God. Like a lunatic. Now, the the district attorney in Nevada said the last we heard of him, he was in Montreal. We traced a phone call to an individual we were watching and the call came from Montreal, but he never got to Montreal.
So I don't know what the hell they're talking about. They said that he was developed as a suspect also in a murder in Washington state. There are some similarities, but we can't confirm it yet. They never end up going further with that. But there's a lot of there's a lot of talk at that time of some strong similarities in the manner of death and actually the and the location the day he was there, all this type of shit.
So nine people and he set them up like a pyramid. Yeah.
And then shot them all down and left the knife. And one of their just so this this this case is too long. To get into that, but I'm definitely going to do a little more research. I'll give you guys an update next week on that. So I want to find out exactly the details of the murder. Then I got to do some newspaper archive hunting and all that sort of shit. So it's a it's a it's a definite rabbit hole to go down.
But I'm really curious about this shit. So I'm curious. He could who knows what the hell he's just shooting and everybody says he could have killed how many people will alone up there. Well, yeah, that's might be a good bonus episode or maybe just a we'll find out how much is there. If it's enough for something, we'll do it like that.
So he all this and they arrest him based on him throwing himself on a car in a state that they didn't even know he was in and he could have gotten away with it. So he just fucked himself over every minute here. He's held on one million dollar bond after this and he refused to waive extradition and all that sort of shit. They obviously end up being able to extradite him. Now, the pathologist here says that the evidence indicates that the first person he attacked was 72 year old Mary.
Yeah, he attacked Mary. Yeah. I guess he stabbed her in the back as she entered her bedroom. That was the first attack. He said that she struck that Roger struck so hard that two ribs were broken and droplets of blood hit the ceiling when he withdrew the knife. So it was a real violent in and out. Now, Emery was the next person to enter the room, and I guess he heard a commotion. Yeah, he entered the room and was face to face with with Roger's here.
So apparently Strode received, according to the pathologist, a slight stab wound in the back in a brief scuffle before Rogers buried the knife to the hilt in his chest while a butcher knife to the hilt. So he had two stab wounds, one minor and one was obviously all the way in. But he didn't die. He was walking around with a stab wound with a knife sticking out of his chest. I can just he's a 71 year old miner.
Jimmy, this is a tough man, you know what I mean? These are these are rugged people. He is going to pull it out and call him a pussy, probably, you know.
So I'm going to put you back in your pyramid, son, going to pull it out, handle the man and then go back to work.
You shoot a man in the beard and he just takes the bullet out and throws it out of his truck. Like, this is a tough group of people doing this is crazy. So, yeah, apparently Rogers then he was still stumbling around the knife, sticking out of his chest. So Roger's shot him twice with his own. He stole the guy's gun, obviously, because they had guns everywhere in this trailer and he had access to before they came home, he got himself a gun, shoots him twice with his own pistol.
Then he shoots Mary as well, who apparently had crawled into the corner of the room and was still alive. So he shoots her as well and ends that. So it's much worse with the daughter, Mary Ann Treadwell.
OK, she had she is almost blind in one eye and her other eye. She went completely blind and had just been fitted with a glass eye. Oh, my God, she's 41 years old. One glass eye, other eye, almost completely blind, and also walked with a leg brace as she had a problem with her arm, everything here. So she had a disability there. They said that he just placed the gun to her back and fired once and then shot her.
She fell down and then he shot Emery again, even though he was already dead. He just she figured he was tough. So pop another one in and make sure he's dead. Then he dragged her, dragged Miriam into a pie, into the pile of bodies. At some point, though, he tied her, started tying her wrist with an electrical cord. Mm hmm.
But that didn't, I guess, gave up on it because she was dead. Yeah. So the but it was the second bullet. The reason why he shot Emery again was because the second bullet he shot at him was the one that hit the pocket watch. So that didn't do what he wanted it to do. And that's when they got the time of the time of death. They the pathologist here said that the minute hand had been blown off the watch, but the our hand was almost at the one o'clock mark when he found it.
So they can tell by the hour and they don't need the minute hand. And yeah, they said that it's unusual to be able to determine the order of the multiple wounds of the victims will from the. But they were able to do it from the amount of bleeding because he started Emori. He started on Marrie, then went to Amerie. So the the later wounds have much less bleeding because they had bled out a lot so they could tell exactly.
Went by the amount of blood they could tell exactly when the wounds were delivered. While it's pretty fucking interesting here. Yeah. They said the first shot, the Strode was shot three times, first through the chest from front to back, second through the chest from right to left. The bullet hit the watch. The third was in his back. The final bullet. Lodged in his back bone after he already was dead. That was yeah, and Strode had been stabbed twice with a butcher knife still stuck in from the second wound.
The knife was his knife from the kitchen, the family butcher knife. They said that the cause of Mr Rudd's death was the stab wound, which appeared to have been done with the same knife knife. He said she must have been very close to death when she was shot from a very close range in the left breast with the bullet lodged in her stomach because she didn't believe that much. Miriam, like we said, was shot very close distance, which was evidenced by the gunpowder in the wound.
So it was right on there. An electrical cord had been tied around her wrist after she died. So there's that. Now he pleads not guilty and not guilty by reason of insanity. He's you know, which I would expect that honestly from the abyss. OK, that's what you expect. You know, I mean, if you're if you're an attorney and they just pull you in and sit you down with this guy and like, here's your client and you talk to him for five minutes about Mount Olympus and pyramids and rockets and shit, you're going to go is an insanity defense.
I'm sorry. I don't even know what the hell you're talking about.
You know, you jumped on my back and tries to escape that way. That's the other thing, too. Jump on the back of my station wagon as I tried to pull out of the jail. Right. So they filed for a change of venue because this is a very rural area.
And to have I mean, this spreads like why everyone everybody knows about this, but only 200 people to tell the. Exactly. So they said back then there was less was like 100 people to tell. So they said that generally there had been an emotionally charged and prejudicial publicity in local newspapers. His motion stated that the makeup of the community is largely agricultural and mining, with many community members living in remote areas, as the victims did. And they said that I guess basically the attorney said that during the course of her representation and her residences in Pershing County, she said that she's been approached on numerous occasions by local citizens who believe that they, you know, are like normal people who would sit on a jury.
And they said they were approached by people asking me if they were if she was representing the defendant. And one of the people, one or more of the people said that he should be taken out and hanged as it was done in the old days. So that's the sentiment of the town, is take them out and hang them. So she's like maybe a change of venue, you know what I mean? Yeah. So they said that other members of the community had seen him in the days prior to December 1980.
And he's been he basically showed up for a few days in this area and was a fuckin menace. People remember him from that. He showed up, got bar fights, broke, cue sticks in a fit of rage while playing bull and fighting with people, and also was loitering in mining camp areas, which is not allowed to do so.
They all knew this was going to happen. They were all like, this guy's a lunatic. Everybody kind of stay away from him. And then somebody dropped him off in front of someone's house there. So they apparently they said that members of the community who've been interviewed by the state as witnesses also who knew the victims, all expressed that their family, they're friendly and helpful nature. They were very well-liked in the community. They said that he's a young transient who's lived in Hollywood.
His lifestyle is totally different from people in the local community. So they believe that they're going to be prejudicial against him, blah, blah, blah. He raises all this stuff. They submit that the jury selection will reveal that he can't receive a fair trial. They said it would be impossible for an outside hippie type to receive a fair and impartial trial considering the murder of local citizens. They said, with only one exception, each of the fifty four potential jurors examined about about this had prior knowledge and had heard something about the crime.
Or about him, 53 or 54 had heard about it, so maybe this sounds like a change of venue, the fifty fourth was lying his ass off. That's the things like, no, I never heard that before. He's the guy who was like O.J. who I don't know if I don't watch football or movies or television or anything. I'm live in a bubble. So they Jesus Christ. They also said that five of the people on the jury were friendly with local law enforcement.
Seven had difficulty accepting any insanity defense at any time. They said they could never accept it and to functionally equated first degree murder with the mandatory imposition of the death penalty no matter the case. That's the jury pool. That's his jury. And they're going they're going for the death penalty as well. So, yeah, he's charged with this. Obviously, attorney files the affidavit revealing that all of the stuff and the only objection to the they also request to sequester in sequester them so they can't go home and gossip.
The only objection that the prosecution had to the sequestration was it was inconvenient to the jurors and they said no change of venue. No, no sequestering them. Fuck it, we're good. We'll get the people who know about the case and they can go home and talk to their fucking family about it and their neighbors and gossip and everything else. So this is this is not good. Now, this is this is begging for appeals to overturn the shit.
That's not good. So the trial comes up and his attorney says that he can't remember any of this happening. He just doesn't even remember it. He doesn't know that's what they said.
He's so crazy, doesn't know, doesn't understand. He doesn't remember anything. He's just say he doesn't know.
But he would like to have everyone over to his pyramid for beans and coffee. Other than that, he has no idea what's happening. So they said that he was a paranoid young man. This is Virginia shame, his cocounsel. He's a paranoid young man who was running away from something before he ever came to the Stroud family's mine here. They said that they said that once there, he saw plenty to feed his paranoia, she said, including in the yard between where he was dropped off and the door.
There was a dead dog who had been shot 19 times. Wow. That's a lot of times to kill a dead dog.
I don't know why, James, that's reloading several times. I don't know what you would. I don't know if they were like they killed it and then they were like, fuck it, this is fun to shoot a dog. This is crazy. But somebody shot a dog 19 times and then a sign scrawled in large letters at the entrance to the Stroud residence warning this property is protected by Winchester, numerous bumper stickers proclaiming the virtues of owning guns as well as the virtues I was.
It's a great way to put it, as well as, quote, seven guns scattered around the house in plain view, just lying on tables and shit. That's where he picked one up and shot them with it. Yeah.
So but that's and that's even reckless.
Yeah. This is just all over the house just right. There's no kids around but still probably a little too accessible. Yeah. So they said that the district attorney also has instructed every witness to write the dates and times that they saw Rogers that way. He made a map right up to the through the timeline and, you know, cross everything of how he got there and all sorts of shit. The D.A. says he's going to call twenty four prosecution witnesses and present 150 to 200 exhibits, which is a lot, including about one hundred items gathered at the murder scene here.
One guy isn't going to testify. Ray Horn, the guy who Kevlar Biard Kevlar face Kevlar face here. He's said that he's in Missouri. He said he didn't have time for all this shit. He's losing money, literally said, I'm losing money. I can't come all the way over there and I'll lose money.
So he said, Ozarks, Bush, Methodist, they couldn't find him to subpoena him.
And they figured that he was in the that he's in Missouri is what they figured. So instead, they just had his his testimony entered into evidence anyway. So that's a little shady. And death penalty case as well. Yeah. He said that something hit me in the face and then it was a beard and then it was a bullet in his beard. It's worse than to be in your bonnet, a bullet in your beard. I'd rather have a in about it.
So they are allowed horns previous testimony to be read into record over the objection, obviously, of the defense counsel and also testimony from Joe Schleifer. Shuffler was a resident deputy at Imlay, indicated that authorities were unable to serve on the subpoena, so they let him do it. Now, first, prosecution witness is going to be Douglas Morrison Jr., the the assistant director on family. Here now is going to be a blast. Yes, they bring him up here, I guess they said Rodgers has been living with him for.
Three years. Oh, boy, he moved there at 20. He's now 23 and he's been three years, been living with him. So defense counsel, who is from the public defender's office, just bluntly asked Morrison, who, by the way, is like 68, 70 years old. I asked Morrison if the relationship had been homosexual in nature. That's the words he used. And before Morrison could answer, the judge asked Vaughn what relevance that had to the trial.
He's like, oh, that's some appealable shit.
Here, hold on. It's nineteen eighty. What are we doing? Oh, back up here.
That's a that's a real that's a real hand grenade in 1980, you know. I mean back then shit. They'd make a big deal out of that, especially in rural Nevada. This is in West Hollywood here. So he said that the judge said that he had a lot of trouble with that, but he's going to allow the witness to answer anyway. But I want to know. Yes, but you know what? I'm kind of curious, actually, what's going on.
I'm looking at him. I'm looking at you. I want to know what's going on.
So Morrison says this is the wow. This is answer is he says, quote, I don't believe it was a homosexual relationship. We were just very good friends. Here's the thing about a gay relationship. You know, if you're in one. Yeah. Because you've seen the guy's penis, that's how you know, if you're in it, you've probably tasted it. Yeah. You know a lot about his penis that you wouldn't know otherwise. So I'm going to say that don't believe it was is probably I don't believe that we'll put it that way.
I don't believe that thing. Is that what we mean?
Maybe. Yeah. Yeah. I don't care either way. And it's it's ridiculous that that shit would have to be that someone would have to out themselves on the stand like that. Obviously I don't. Right. That's bullshit. Honestly, you know, that's dumb. If it really didn't have it, if he tried to kill Morrison, that might that would have relevance. Was it a lover's quarrel with it? They were they you know, what level where are they fighting on video rent money or did he cheat on him?
Which one? Like, there's a big difference in those in terms of emotional reaction for this. But it's 1980.
It's Hollywood. It's an old man that has a young boy staying with him for three years and paying for his teeth to further his career and make him more handsome.
Give me a fucking break here. We know what's happening. We're not judging it. We don't care. But come on, we're all looking around going, are you fucking come on, bro.
So he said Rogers he had spoken to him on the telephone a few days before the murder, and Rogers told him that he was planning to return to Hollywood to continue his efforts to be an actor. He's like, I'll be back soon. Don't worry, keep my side of the bed warm or whatever.
Just out from Joshua Tree on ecstasy just outside and burning it up, Burning Man. So also they bring on two Ohio cops who talk about his previous criminal record because that's what they're hearing the death penalty on as he has previous convictions for felony assault. Yeah, basically. So that's what they're doing. That's his and also depraved indifference and all, you know, like not depraved indifference, like the particularly depraved, torturous malice, habitual problem.
Who's escalating exactly? Now, they said that he stabbed two men four years ago. He said that he pleaded guilty and served time in jail for the assaults and got the suspended sentence and all that. The his attorney, Roger's attorney said that the stabbings occurred during a drunken brawl and they testified that he'd been convicted of felony assault for cutting another man with a broken bottle. And then Forte, the guy who life he gave drugs to. He said that that he served as a narcotics informant after one of his assault sentences were shortened.
To do that, he pled guilty to felony aggravated assault charge in 76 and then pled guilty again in 77. But he said that the 76 assault he received two to five hour, one to five years in prison and the suspended one, but the seventy seven charge, he pled guilty but failed to appear for a sentencing hearing. So then he took off and went to California and just was there for three years. So that's what happened. So let's bring in the psychiatrist, because this is and psychologists and all of these people to this is the this is the curious part here.
Yeah. So the defense presents the testimony of expert witnesses who indicate that he is a paranoid schizophrenic at the time of the evaluation and that his behavior at the time of the commission of the crimes was consistent with psychotic, paranoid delusions, schizophrenia, psychosis, and that Rogers could not tell right from wrong or the quality or nature of his acts. He's fucking batshit is what they're saying is he's all right completely and doesn't know what he's doing.
So but at this point, though, do we blame him? Do we blame society or do we blame that fucking L.A. guru we blame him or do we blame the guy who dropped him off in front of a house?
That or that guy? Who knows, some lived, some Satan to that family, Jesus. Here you go, enjoy your diet seven up and sent them into a house. Christ. So the this is Dr. IRA Deepali, the doctor IRA here says that, quote, My opinion is that Mark Rodgers was so virtually psychotic at the time of the crime that he was suffering from paranoid delusions that he had been under considerable stress, probably in terms of exposure the night before and somewhat because of his dietary intake and given his emotional status that he was actively psychotic and under the influence of being paranoid, that he was incompetent and unable to distinguish between right and wrong, that he was psychotic and that he was in a very frightened and paranoid state, which is clearly documented by witnesses who saw him immediately before and others who described his behavior immediately after the murders.
And that is and that this is consistent with my reevaluation of him several months later, and that this is the description of a psychotic paranoid schizophrenic. And on the basis of that diagnosis, I'm saying that he was delusional, therefore unable to distinguish between right and wrong at the time.
So he says, Zira, that's Dr. IRA. Now, another psychologist, Martin Gutte ride, got tried and got ride a Ph.D. He testified for the prosecution and stated that it was his opinion that Rogers had an antisocial personality disorder and a, quote, schizo type personality disorder rather than a mental illness. He's got disorders, but not illnesses. These fucked up, but I wouldn't say sick.
So that's what medication he might be able to have a day job. That's what I'm thinking.
I think he can make it. I really do. Or at least an acting gig. He doesn't even need medication for that. He can talk about pyramid's and normal. Yeah, he's basically just fucking Shila Bouffe, you know what I mean?
Like, he's John Travolta without without a fucking life on a plane. John Travolta with no plane or fancy wigs. So beyond that, though, he thought this doctor believed that Roger's due to his acting training, was malingering and pretending to be mentally ill. He says this is a big act as what he thinks there. So that's his theory. So those are the dueling psychiatrists now are dueling doctors. Now, mom takes the stand. His mom. Yeah, the defense calls his mom because his mom's got a theory as well of what set him off.
I can't wait. OK, now, Susan Boynton is her name.
She said that her son became very distressed after she revealed to him in September of 1980, a few months before the murders revealed to him that his eight year old stepsister had been sexually assaulted by a stepfather. OK, she said it happened three years are two years earlier, but she didn't tell Rodgers about it until September 1980, which is about two and a half months before he left the area and ended up in Nevada. So she said that she's since divorced the stepfather and the daughter has moved back east to live with her natural father.
So the mother tried to come to Bakersfield to take her from the stepfather who was beating her. But when they couldn't agree on how many personal belongings, she told him she wasn't helping her. She told him she wasn't he wasn't helping her and she didn't want to see him again. That's what ended up happening. So that's the mother's testimony. And after that, so the defense puts up a psychiatrist saying, you know, yeah, he's crazy. We think he's real crazy.
And then the mother go. And this is why I think he went crazy because of the molestation of his stepsister. They think he's crazy. And here's the trigger. Yeah, here's this. He's crazy. And here's why. It's basically what they tried to do. And then they said defense rests. That's about enough of our remorse, I think. Oh, that's Paul's less than a day they've had. They said that was it. That was also the closing.
In the closing arguments here, the prosecutor, Richard Wagner here, he told Dicky Wags he depicted the he depicted him as an aspiring Hollywood actor, wandering by chance into the Srodes isolated cabin thirty miles north of L.A. while they were gone, helping himself to a plate of beans and a cup of coffee, then waylaying with victims when they returned. Oh, boy. Sinister, very sinister.
The defense, just coffee and the. Oh, man, that's what happens when he got beans and coffee. And, you know, I get the fight over with quick because you got a fart. I'm going to let one rip if I try to wrestle with Elmer. I'm sorry Emery.
I'd feel like if you if you threw a knife too hard at somebody, you'd shit your pants. I think flexing your stomach muscles.
What are the odds that that Emery was wearing overalls?
You think I'm over there? It's like ninety seven percent, right? Probably not pretty. Yeah. OK, I just want to make sure not that like I said, he's an old miner, but still. These are overalls or coveralls, either way, there's an all in the kind of it's alls I got close calls, that's what that is, is all my clothes. I've always thought my pair of them all come here.
I don't care which one got their first choice.
The other shows all good. So the defense says nobody will ever know what went on in the cabin. That's what Virginia Shein says. But even if the district attorney's theories were true, she told them that she said if all this is true, then Rogers is so sick, paranoid and so delusional that he's incapable of premeditated murder. You have to find him not guilty by reason of insanity, they said. I mean, his eight year old stepsister was sexually molested by her step by a stepfather two years earlier and he found out about it.
That's crazy. She said he met that guru guy who screwed his brain all up. He all these you know how it is in Hollywood. There's these crazy gurus like Charles Manson. You know, that's what happens. And started him thinking about pyramid's gurus and Mount Olympics and Mount Olympus. And he got all mixed up is what she said. She talked about him yanking off all the teeth, all the caps off his teeth, all of this shit.
She said also he. Ah, I'm sorry. This is the other counsel, Robert Bork. He said he did not know these people and did not go up there intending to kill anyone. He had no idea where he was going. And they said he was dropped off in front of the strode. She he says the Strode compound, nothing with a trailer can be considered a compound, I would say, with a scrawled sign proclaiming this property is protected by Winchester.
And he said he he asked the guy who dropped him off, is this a setup? So he thought that they were coming in to kill him. That's why I said he did it in self-defense. Case closed my eyes. I'll just let him go now on his merry way.
There you go.
That's a fucking ball. The butcher to family. Like, you know, this is this one is like, yeah, I think he's fucking nuts. But like I mean, I don't care where you put him. This is the thing. I get it. I don't care. I don't understand why people are so like I get that people want vengeance and shit like that, but people like out there, you going to go in a mental hospital and you ever been to a mental hospital?
It's not a clinic for the criminally insane. Not like a voluntary place, a place where you're you have to go by the state because you killed people. It's not a great place. I don't really give a shit where they put him. He just needs to be out of circulation. I would say out of the gen pop of of society would be great. That's where the situation, though, is like the maybe he didn't go to the Strads house intending to kill people.
What do you did you get dropped off there and you see a sign that says Protected by Winchester. You probably even if you had the plan to kill people, you might be rethinking it. Maybe don't eat their beans. Right. He went in with nobody there, eaten their beans and drinking their coffee and then tucked away a gun. Yeah, that was premeditated. I mean, he thought about it and he did it. I mean, I'm sorry.
But then he shot people after they were dead just to make sure like they were definitely. And I don't think Emery was going to take him down while he had a butcher knife sticking out of his chest. But he said, I'm a pop up a couple more times here. So the verdict comes around here. Obviously, it's six men and six women who've all heard about the case. You know, everyone in law enforcement and everything like that wait to draw.
And quarter of this man, they're just dying, too. And also, he's up for grand theft, for stealing the pickup truck and shit like that. And attempted murder as well for shooting at Ray Horne for that beard. He's got that. So they find him guilty of first degree murder. The jury does for the three murders of the Stroud family. And then he is found guilty on one count of attempted murder and grand theft for stealing the pickup truck.
Everything guilty across the board. He said he kept his eyes shut during the entire five hours of courtroom proceedings. He never opened his eyes. He sat down. They did a whole day. They came back with a verdict and he never opened his fucking eyes out of my eyes. They can't see me.
But they said the verdict was read at nine p.m. They said while the verdict was read, he opened his eyes dramatically and stared straight ahead and then bowed his head for the rest of it. That was it. So he that was the only time he had his eyes open while they read the verdict. And then he went back to what he was doing. Deep thought, Jimmy. Yeah. So the aggravating circumstances in the sentencing here, you need an aggravators.
Do you need aggravating circumstances that outweigh the mitigating circumstances to impose the death penalty for people who are from other countries that don't have the death penalty like all of them, except for Saudi Arabia and fucking Syria and shit? Because, I mean, the standard. Yeah, Sharia law exists. You flee to places that you'd be, you know, where you have to dress a certain way. We'll put it that way, even if you're on vacation, that those are places that have other places where women's clitoris is forcibly removed.
That's all because it all goes together, it's in the same bag, really. It's all on the same menu. I feel like you know what I mean. We ought to be doing that if we're going to do this shit of Jesus. So they find the aggravating circumstance that he had been previously convicted of a felony involving the use or threat of violence to to a person, as well as the aggravating circumstance that the murder involved torture, depravity of mind or the mutilation of the victim.
The jury found that there were no no mitigating circumstances sufficient to outweigh the aggravating circumstances. You, sir, may fuck off. They give him the death penalty today and more of this. Yeah, right now we're going to hang him outside the death penalty. And then also they impose 10 years for grand theft and 20 years for attempted murder. And they'll they run consecutive with the death penalty. Oh, so he's got the death penalty plus 30 years where his money can be in turn, that's for sure.
And they're going to hang on to him and, I don't know, make dream catchers out of them.
I have I got news for you, Mr. Rogers. Roberts is a Robert Rogers. Yeah. He's going to be in a different neighborhood nowadays. This is not Mr. Rogers.
You are now owned by the government now. You are owned by the government. They're going to take you to your own pyramid. It's not going to be a triangle.
It's going to be a square little tiny rectangular pyramid. So, yeah, he gets that 10 and 20 for that. And they asked him, quote, Mark, do you realize what these what this means? And he just said, yes, in a monotone way and continue to stare at the table in front of him, would look up at the judge or anything like that. When he was asked, he's led away from the courtroom. Several women jurors broke down and cried as they left the jury box because they just imposed the death penalty.
And that's kind of a weird thing for people to do. Yeah, it just is. That's what they also don't notice. Don't say all the time. Is that like that fucks the jury up some time still when they're kind of especially want to do that. Yeah. When they're pressured by other people too. It's it's tough. So the appeal process comes around here and they deny him in nineteen eighty five, they deny him in nineteen eighty six for post conviction relief.
They held an evidentiary hearing at which he testified. That must have been fun. Shit. I would love the video of him testifying at an evidentiary hearing. Yeah. I would pay for that footage. If anybody has it literally whatever it costs I will, I'll, I'll go into debt for that shit. I want to watch this.
Is that that's a public record, right. Yeah. But they wouldn't have videoed it back then. It wouldn't have been on video now 1986 appeals court. But God damn it, I'll read that. Oh God.
Jesus. Just a picture of him on the stand is my rant and rave and talk about Pyramid's. I want to thank a guy that would have like it. So not to have like half his face shaved, you know. I mean like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly half his the middle and crop circles in his hair. Like what's happening with you. So he files a petition for a writ of habeas corpus in nineteen eighty seven here.
This is counsel was appointed for him. He got some new counsel here, nineteen eighty seven right after that. There's a stay of issued for his execution where they say they got a you know, federal court's going to determine if his constitutional rights were upheld during the trial. He claims he was given ineffective counsel there and the Nevada Supreme Court denied it. So then he's going up the chain here. Nineteen eighty nine in July, he the court stayed that action so Rogers could exhaust certain claims in courts.
All legal shit, 1989, they're looking for extra legal aid for Virginia and Nevada, death penalty compared to people who have been convicted. Yeah. So convict these, I guess, convicts. They were saying that the the this is one guy who was this the U.S. public defender. He says, I think inmates should be provided an attorney in every case. Most of the time they do get a lawyer, but not always. And it usually takes months.
And the deputy Nevada attorney general, he said that they should deny the request and said the district court routinely provides counsel to death row inmates. And Mr. Flanagan knows that the federal public defender just doesn't want to move on these cases. So the U.S. Supreme Court rules five four in a case in Virginia that death row inmates are not constitutionally entitled to state paid attorneys when appealing their sentences. Yeah, so basically, like, you can't have a good attorney on your death penalty appeal unless you can afford it.
So they said that the in Virginia, the state has an in-house prison attorney system that helps death row inmates appeal their cases. Prisoners, these are that do this what? Yeah, prisoners that have legal knowledge. They're in a little bit of it. Yeah, something that diverter doesn't even have that they said, quote, Nevada is nowhere near as sophisticated in its legal assistance scheme as Virginia. They don't even have that. They just have. Well, fuck you, buddy.
Right? I mean, that's basically their thing. They said the two test cases, the guy this public defender used for his federal court motions involved Henry Dawson in Virginia and Mark Rogers in Nevada. So he was a Supreme Court. The Supreme Court heard about this idiot. Think about that. So 1990, Frank, remember Frank Strode, who found his family butchered and probably the worst day of his life? Well, on August 19th, 1990, he dies.
So that's a shame. Only 52 years old. He dies. Block, 52 years old. Terry stayed in that goddamn town. Nobody makes it to 75 in. Yep. He died there. He's buried in the Winnemucca cemetery, sharded where we all hope to get. So, 1990, he filed the second petition for a petition for post conviction relief. It was denied. He appeals. Nevada Supreme Court dismissed the appeal got God nineteen, 1993, between 67 and 93.
There were two types of post conviction relief available to people in Nevada. One was Jesus. How to explain this simply holy shit. Oh God, this is annoying.
Basically, the court refers to all Roger's state court post conviction actions. Well, I can't even I can't explain this. It would take us twenty minutes to explain the legalities of this. I'm so mad because I fucking read for an hour and a half what the shit is going on here so I could explain it. And I went in other cases and I looked and I'm like, I can't explain this in the time allotted. This is crazy. The whole thing would be like, you know, legal wranglings with James and Jimmy.
That's not a show fucking ridiculous. So we'll skip that shit gets denied. We'll put it that way. 2011, there's an appeal for ineffective assistance of counsel. And he contends that his attorneys called his mother to testify against his well, he did not want his mother to testify. He said that his attorneys never discussed with him anything about his past or his family that they could use in the penalty phase. Either they didn't ask him like, hey, or you maybe your dad beat the shit out of you all the time when you were a kid.
He said they never asked him any of that to get mitigating factors out of them. So they said that I, the defense attorney, allowed the mother to testify. And his mother, this is his new attorney, said that his mother, quote, buried him, quite frankly, with her testimony about his troubled past. They said that she brought up things the prosecution wouldn't have been able to bring up unless he introduced character shit. So they fucked them basically is what the what the attorney said.
The essence of the testimony was that he had a criminal background. He was cold and cruel, but he wasn't insane. And that she also said the defense counsel failed to adequately investigate his past while living in Ohio. So they didn't like when the prosecutors brought up his charges. They didn't have it like adequately investigated to defend him on it, to say, well, he was only a kid at a party, at a party and got in a fight and that sort of shit.
So the chief justice, Al Gunderson, said he was comfortable that Roger's got what he deserved. But he also told the county district attorney, Richard Wagner, quote, You weren't sorry to see mom on the stand, were you? Was like they did you a favor, but, you know, they did you a favor. He's saying, I'm not going to say it was ineffective assistance of counsel, but they definitely did the prosecution a favor, which seems like the definition of ineffective assistance of counsel.
But I don't know. The chief justice said it seemed like a vain effort to overturn the death sentence because, quote, maybe something could be found in Roger's path past to change a result of the trial and penalty hearing. The defense insisted it was more than just a possibility, but they said no. They also the judge brought up that there was testimony that Rogers used his acting training to fake insanity symptoms. And he said that Rogers could have been using a strategy of not helping his defense in hopes of getting something less than a death sentence.
You know, that's he said he could have been doing this on purpose.
Yeah. But if he was a good enough actor to pretend to be crazy, wouldn't he be on TV? I would that he had caps.
I would think he would have gotten a role or to an outline. So the defense attorney insisted that the court should grant the appeal and says something very logical. When you're going to execute someone, you better be right. You've got to be sure the chips are all in order. She said that the value society puts on life mandates and in death penalty cases, there be a qualitative difference between the defendant's crime and a killing by the state. So that's all very good.
On cross-examination, when pressed to identify the witnesses that Rogers believed his attorney should have called to testify in the penalty phase first he had trouble naming anybody and then all of a sudden he comes out with this.
Fucking torrent this river of shit here, he says that he would call Robert Hoppes, William Lansky, Ted Brady and John professedly, he said that, quote, All these people I worked for a stretch, a stretch of two or three years. And I worked hard and was always there and clean and did my work. And he said, I want they should have come on to say he was good at work four years ago that would have helped in a murder trial, especially when he said he's crazy.
They're going to come up and go now. He's a good guy. We had lunch together with beans and coffee and just hung out all the time. I mean, very mitigating. Very mitigating here. It's fucking strange. He also says that the the performance with respect to the use of his prior criminal convictions as an aggravating circumstance is he said that wasn't good. They didn't challenge that enough. And they said his self-serving testimony that his attorneys could have located and called witnesses from Los Angeles and they would have generally said positive things about him was not compelling evidence that he was prejudiced by his attorney.
Another point is the sequester. He said, I wanted a sequester and they didn't give it to him. He says that he's he says he's entitled to a new trial and sentencing hearing because the court ruling denying the motion to sequester, you know, violated his federal rights, grand larceny. Also, he said he shouldn't have been charged with grand larceny. We're still in the truck because he says the jury was asked to determine whether Mr. Rogers took the SRODES automobile with the specific intent to permanently deprive them of such property.
Evidence was introduced that Mark Rogers killed three persons he did not know while leaving eight thousand dollars in cash. In the very small home. The nature of the offense suggests that robbery was not the motive. There was a myriad of evidence that he was psychotic at the time of the offense, and they said that he could have been taking the truck with intent for fleeing for his life and not with the intent of permanently depriving the Srodes or other beneficiaries of the property.
Yeah, in fact, to the point that's what I mean. In fact, the testimony. But that's like if he's crazy, you have to believe that. If not, you have to take the bite the whole apple on that one, which is tough. You have to take what believe one thing and take the rest of it, like we said before. So they said that he chased people and shot at people for no reason, no motive.
He was going to rob them or do anything. They said there was no way to determine his motive given his mental illness. He was experiencing some distortion of reality, you know, whatever will give you that. Also, the juror questions. They said that refusing the to allow the defense counsel to ask each juror what his or her individual verdict was in previous jury service was an unreasonably restrictive, also prior convictions as the aggravator he's trying to say. They said he had two convictions, but he really only had one conviction, even though he pled guilty.
He didn't do the sentencing. So he's trying to say that's not a conviction.
And the courts, like just because you fled the state doesn't mean that you didn't do it. You just let the technicality. But yeah, so charged and convicted. Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
So they're are also saying that the depravity of mind aggravator and the prior convictions, that was error and they were saying he doesn't have depravity of mind and all this type of shit he didn't they go into whether he mutilated them or not or tortured them or the, you know, for the aggravator. So they're trying to break both aggravators. He only had one conviction and he didn't do anything that bad to them, is what he's saying. But they're like he did shit after death.
So that can be considered. He put an electrical cord around a dead girl's wrist. Why? Right. That's something he stole the truck.
Whether or not he took the eight grand, too. It doesn't matter. He's still exactly. You know, he's still in the commission of a robbery. He stole a spoon. It's still he stole something. So we've had this before.
Not our fault. He chose the fucking thing that was harder to sell. And it doesn't benefit him as well.
Yes. Well, the decision comes in. The court concludes that the constitutional errors regarding the aggravating circumstances found by the jury, those errors asserted by Rogers and all these different counts. Rogers second amended petition has substantial and injurious effect or influence on determining the jury's verdict as the error significantly skewed the weighing of aggravating and mitigating evidences. Our circumstances by which the jury found Roger's eligible for the death penalty in finding these errors harmless to states, the state court's rulings or an unreasonable application of a clearly established federal law as determined by the Supreme Court and were based on an unreasonable determination of the facts in light of the evidence presented, the court will therefore Grant Rogers habeas corpus relief with respect to his death sentence.
It is ordered that his second amended petition for writ blah blah blah is granted in part and denied in part. Basically, he's getting new sentencing. He has a they grant him shall either grant petition or a new penalty phase trial and initiate proceedings relative to that new penalty phase trial or vacate the death sentence and impose on him a noncapital sentence, equivocal, consistent with the law so they can try to get the death penalty on him again, file it again, or they can just say never mind.
And it's life in prison and he's got life consecutive with another thirty years. So he's really not going anywhere. Right. Type of thing, so they can do one or the other. So he has a the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit. He's got a case on the calendar for William K. Nakamura Courthouse in Seattle, April 19th. Twenty twenty one. They're still going. Still going. And a couple of weeks he's got Mark Geragos versus James decided to surrender the state of Nevada appeals court districts judgment on remand getting him.
So they're trying to they're appealing the decision to to change his sentence, basically. Yeah, they're doing that. So that's what's going on, the appeal. Yeah. And it's it's in the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals. So that's the very top before the Supreme Court. So if this gets thrown back, it's going to go to the Supreme Court, which is crazy. Yeah. So that's going on. Keep up on that. And the whole family is buried in Winnemucca.
Unfortunately for them, which sucks, everyone's buried. That's why the one guy was buried there, because the rest of the family was, too. That is that's the story. Oh, no, I'm going just a while yet. They're not done yet. And I definitely have to follow up on that Washington murder to see. Yeah.
About that often is that in twenty twenty one April, April 19th. Twenty twenty one it is up there. So he's on the, on the schedule. Who knows if it'll get delayed or whatever, but it's on the docket for now so we'll see what happens. Yeah. That's the case. That's Emily, Nevada and a little bit of Florida, a little bit of California and a little bit of Canada and a little bit of Washington all over the goddamn place.
It's a shithole that place, many of them.
Life sucks. But we hope you enjoyed the show. We hope you enjoyed that crazy shit story. I don't know where else you're going to hear stories about pyramid people in Mount Olympus and all that.
We find the deep, deepest, darkest holes. We go deep in the mines for you, everyone. That's what we do to find crazy stories like this.
I'm sorry, isn't that crazy? I'm stunned with how fucking Deep Dove was. That was I was too much Nevada. That's what I was. Never had a man. That's why, like last week I was like, we got to next week crazy and yeah, it's crazy. I was mine so we got all that.
If you enjoyed that show, please tell the world about it. How do you do that Apple podcast, that purple icon? Give us five stars because it matters and we have no idea why it helps drive you up the charts and we don't know why. But people see the show more than and they want to listen to it and it it helps pass on the business. And so do you want to help out the show? It's a good way to do it.
Give a review, say anything you want. Just give five stars. Also, go to shut up and give me murder dotcom right now, where you can find all of the everything for crime and sports and small town murder, we're going to have updates on tour dates coming up soon. Everything keeps getting rescheduled, rescheduled as of right now. I know we have a couple at the end of twenty twenty one that we're hanging on to that we're hoping are going to still go on and then we're even pretty sure there.
That depends on you.
That depends on everybody. Yeah. And then we're stacking up back for twenty, twenty two, most of the same places we had a couple of the cities are going to go away just because we don't have time. And all the ones that we cut, we made sure there's another city close by. So if you feel like driving a couple hours, you can go to another show. But I mean otherwise it just the schedules didn't allow it or it was that wasn't available and the only time we could be there.
So it's it's nothing. If your city gets canceled, it's nothing personal. We promise it's not because we hate it. Logistics and difficulties with time management are a pain in the neck.
They really there we kind of got yeah. We kind of got choices. Would you rather do this or this type of thing? And sometimes it just was based on, well, more people can go to that show, so we'll do that one. And that's kind of how we're doing. We just want the most people to be able to go to the shows as possible, you know, whatever. So that's how that works. Get on there and follow us around on shut up and give me murder.
Dotcom, listen to small town murder. Listen to P.S. I hate this movie and do all that shit. And also you should wear was a social media. That's right. You've got to follow us on social media. You'll get all the updates on any of these tour dates that pop up, too. We'll we'll put it all up. And anything else that comes up, we'll tell you. We are at murder small on Twitter, at small town pot on Facebook and at small town murder on Instagram.
You can do all of those. Patreon is poppin right now, is it? We have really just been putting it out there, laying it on the line for Patriots. So if you have been waiting to subscribe to Patriot, get on it, man. I'm telling you, it's worth it. It's really worth it this past week. You can start out with that right there. We did a little thing on the documentary about the Hotel Cecil and the Elisa Lam disappearance and all that sort of thing.
And we we really ripped YouTube sleuths and all this sort of shit. It was a lot of fun. And then also this last weekend was the prisoner dating game, which was absolutely incredible. This time, Jimmy made his worst decision ever. You have to hear it to believe it. It's so perfect and so fucking funny.
It's bound to happen. It had to it really it had to you usually you've been pretty good at dodging bullets. I got to be honest.
I can sniff out a pedo in a sack.
Can you can. And this time maybe there maybe he didn't, but he didn't end up with who he wanted to end up with. I'll put it that way. So check all that. The lady sort of although her crime was wild. Holy shit.
She was the she was the wild is one that all the women are of the worst women on earth, probably based on what she did.
It was like, whoa, that was a bad woman. Oh, that's a big boy crime right there. That's crazy. So, yeah, based on that, definitely. Check all that out. New stuff. Come in next week. We'll have more episodes. You get access to both shows on crime and sports and small town murder and the whole back catalog as well. Patreon Dotcom Slash Crime and sports, Patreon Dotcom Slash Crime and sports. And also you'll be a producer so Jimmy can mispronounce your name horribly as well, even though he's trying his best to do it.
Well, it's going to be great. And if you just want to be a producer, have your name right at the end of the show and also have great karma and not for nothing. Our undying affection. You can do that as well at PayPal using our email address, crime and sports at Gmail, dot com. And whichever way you do it, Patriot and PayPal, every damn people send us a twenty dollar bill. And in the mail, like there are grandpa, grandma as well, sometimes like in a card and however you do, however you give us stuff.
It's incredibly. Yeah. Thank you. It's just amazingly we're so grateful for it.
Honestly we mail it's been really fun to you guys send incredibly funny things. That's the other thing we got.
We got an autographed picture of Hillbilly Jim today. James, that's great.
Oh yeah. I saw that out there. I didn't. We just didn't. We rushed in the studio so fast today. I didn't even like I didn't even glance. I remember seeing how I was like, is that hillbilly Jim? And then like something else came up and we were at the studio was amazing. We get out of here and the the affection you guys send. Thank you. You guys are just amazing people and we can't thank you enough.
Well, when we get out of here, what we'll do is we'll we'll talk we'll look at the hillbilly gem picture. We'll talk it over over a plate of beans and a cup of coffee. You say, buddy, let's do that.
Our friends, Kevin and Larry over and we'll shave them and we'll need a couple of the guys.
So we're going to be so good Kevlar vests. So now we have some face shit beard and and Kevlar beard growing all these beards. That said, though, do all of that go to paper? I'll go to Pat Brown. Thank you so much. Follow us on social media and be one of these people who Jimmy is going to talk about right now. Oh, I can't wait to hear about him. Jimmy hit me with these people like a crazy man with a.
Seven-Up, this week's executive producers are Wendy and Ashley Lobelia, and they lost their brother in law. Oh, no, they sent me a message to say I can't recall all the. It doesn't matter. We don't have details. Oh, that's just awful. So Wendy and I actually listen to the show. Thank you both very much. Thank you. Other executive producers are Thomas DeMello, Ashley Veoh, Carol Braun, Joanne A'Hearn, Ben McDonough.
He sent Lenny Dykstra prints a couple of months ago.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Those are. Thank you, Sophie. Stalled Jordan Bennett, of course. Janmohamed Brook. Josh Smith. Janine Hidell Ball. Hey, Holly, it's Beth. That's Bethany Berry. That's Holly. Yeah, that's who it is. No, hey, I'm giving it back to go to Beth. Why should Holly get all the greeting?
And also, of course, the Ann Castaldi is sticking around. Thank you, Jill Knap. Thank Melinda Gardner, Chris Davis on Dischord, Stephanie Ford, Tyler Brown, Kenny Greg and Latasha Campbell. And I believe that her daughters, they're her kids because I don't I don't want to assume shit layout. What is this? La, la and Lyonya. I think I got those right. Probably no, thank you, Latasha. Other producers this week, also our King, Putin, Sarah Hynde's or INS, she actually somebody couldn't get the Patriot bonus stuff, so she sent her money to me.
Go get a patron. Wow. Bonus that she can shows. Unbelievable.
Thank you. People do that. They buy each other tickets to the virtual live shows. Our audiences that people are fucking awesome. Usually good people man that's legit. Support so many good people. It will help another human being. They don't even know how nice they are. Truly wild.
Cool shot, Michael to grief. I think it's the grief. Madison Decker, Brendan Abels, Liz Vasquez, James Marter, Jessica Doree to Durant. Wow.
We saw that one just gawk at it's her birthday. Good God. We're sorry. Happy birthday. Jimmy called you. Are Jessica the whore on your birthday. That's terrible. I'm sorry.
Carl Hirsche. Kershner is German also, which is fantastic because I don't know how to stop this from doing next week on Instagram. I'm going to type Carl Kerschner into this fucking computer and let everybody watch as it fucking does the Zoomlion. I don't know why that's it. It's unbelievable.
Using Hayton, Meadow's, Lailah Halman, Amanda Knight, Brandon Benneteau and his coworker Ronnie had a birthday I know had a baby, had a baby. That's better. They got birthdays every year.
I imagine that Ronnie's the girl.
Oh, no, no, we don't know someone out of baby. Congratulations. Where are you?
Bethany Darrow. Carla Lyons. Thomas Thomas Smith, Annette. Annette Zagorsky, Victoria Blowie. Madison Butler. Richard Lawrence. It's his birthday also. Happy birthday, Jeffrey. Paratus girl. Theresa had a birthday to you. Happy birthday. Melissa Klein. Jerry Crawford. Monica Hernandez. Jennifer Weathers. Kristi Franklin. Janice Hill. Sarah Peterson. David Hartman. Happy birthday to snafu whoever it is.
I think Kim's fab lip sense. I don't know what that is. Oh, it's Kim. Obviously she Websense.
That's all she makes. So look for Kim's lip, right? I don't know what that is, but it's lip stuff. And if you want it, you'll know what it is.
What do you put on your lips if you're looking for you know what it is?
Lah's Gadsby, Gadsby, Amanda Brenan, Oscar Arriaga, Pixie de Leon, Liz Ryan, regard Reigert Reigert, Jude Kendall, Ken Dorfmann and his brothers.
Freds car I believe is mangled so.
Oh well I'm sorry. Gary Friedman.
He except maybe Gary Friedman explained the rabbi thing to me and he's even more hysterical now.
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What. Quackenbush Quackenbush. You might be right with your son Rondi.
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No what is this pool for me to Khail called her son called her own. God damn it. Paige Lelani. William Bryant. Yep. Kempe. Oh boy.
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Is that right? So hers is Bubalo promo promo from out from out.
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Yeah it is. It's so good that lemon and the lime it's so good like the sparkling shape.
Yeah yeah yeah. So rad. Like oh where did I go.
Sean O'Connor. Tammy Kilpatrick. Mandy groaning David Kilmichael Claymates. He donated twice on Patrón. So I imagine one's for him and one's for somebody else. I don't like you either way. Thanks, David. Charles Rivara. Devon Rose. Heidi Noveck. Emily Roark. Hester, Milman Flanken. Oh boy. Flanks to Chad Graham. Tiphanie Hyde, H.J. Cheramie. Oh boy.
Matthew Welburn. Amanda Baker. A microwave. What. That can't be right it that way. An auto. Correct. Right. That can't be seen with the Amber Alert microwave long opposed to media. Jenay Alex H.
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Maybe maybe it's Eila not oh Lakotah Karleen Tacy ex Meghan Daum and Nicky Smith.
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Wow. It's one of those from Carlos Muran. Amy Moon. Richard Kraft. Rachel Archer. Hannah Bishop. Tom Raimondo's oh boy.
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I got to work on myself, Sean McCormack and myself.
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I don't know. Jared Lindquist. Dan Voss of the Vast Fortune. These makes amazing water.
That is all of those tall bottles of glass water so he knows how to do it.
Ethan, Paula, Angelina Law. Jamie Wayne Serch, Wieneke Wench, Sarah Lockharts, Briana Brianne Scott Dasha Dayshift Daja Boston. Jake Fisher, Cheyenne Dodson, Cody Williamson by Voss Water.
By the way, that's been provided to us never before. We've never that purchased that insanely expensive. I don't want people to be like these fucking guys are drinking Perrier and bottled water. If we're on the road before a Joe show, Jimmy, we'll stop at 7-Eleven and get like one of those sparkling perrier's for eighty nine. The drinks, his throat feels good and we only have Vohs when someone gives it to us at a comedy club and then we steal a couple of a little cooler, put it in our bag for later because we're fucking trashed.
Just so you know, please don't think that we're fancy or pompous cunts to think we got to drink lots of water to survive.
No, no, it's give it is like, oh, God, put it back.
It's expensive. Here, take the gum to take the gum from up there too. That's how we are. Empty the fridge.
They'll refill it. They will. They don't know. They'll think we're really thirsty. I'm sorry to interrupt. Jody Williams then.
Lydia where TV Mitton Mitchem Coko Konerko Kanako Kanako Kitsune.
I know that, I don't know that you're calling it though.
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Justin Hillhouse. Heather Hill. Oh Higginbottom Higgenbotham Boyle. Yeah Tyler would no last name. Marion Baker. Vic Jessie Olsen. Becca Thompson Local Media Jamo Boy. Chuma Tuman. Oh new album huh.
I'm a favorite Wilma First Fit, Amy Monroe.
Angie Ann. And that's is an hatefilled big Antonio Lopez, Jacob Ortego, Daniel Quinn, Amanda, Geraldine Harper, Liz Alice and Jordan Thompson, Melanie McWhirter, Gabby Gabby, Katie H and Chandler E and obviously all of our patrons. You guys are amazing. We can't do the show without you. Thank you so much.
God damn it. Yes, thank you. There's a lot of people. That's a lot. We thank you God. Thank you so much, everybody, honestly, everybody, for what you do for us. And Jimmy, what if they wanted to talk to you or thank you or I'll insult you. How could they do that?
You can find me, my friends Kevin and Larry, over at the trailer with a can of beans and a fresh pot of coffee.
Come on. Sounds good. Well, add me to that list because I'll be there as well. Google us on our game means and we'll be doing that. So that's sad. Thank you for taking a crazy shit wild journey through the West with us today through the West and back to the east and on the back of a car. Think about that. That's how that actually that. Seem like there's been so much crazy since then that like it's like, oh yeah, he was hanging on a luggage rack, standing on a bumper, screaming at elderly people.
We're lucky to catch him.
That's really what it is. Honestly, that is crazy shit. So with all that, thank you for hanging out with us. And we're just excited to have you and we're excited to come back next week and the week after that and until next week. Everybody, it's been our pleasure. My.
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