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Hey, you're listening to Smart List, it's hosted by Jason Bateman, myself, Sean Hayes and Will Arnett, and every episode we bring on a guest at the other two. You don't know about it. And it's kind of surprise and.
Oh, well, Eman. What's going on? Are you OK? I'm just explaining what the show is. No, I know I didn't want to interrupt. I'm just over here just to stand in my lane. Yeah, oh, I mean, you can chime in if you want. Oh, you had it, you I feel like I mean, you have anything to add. No, I think you covered it all. And I just felt, to be honest, I just felt kind of useless you during the intro.
And I'm just sitting here like a chump.
Well, you can say something if you want, but I feel like I got it all in, OK? It's marvelous and it's super fun. Here we go. Suat. Smart. You can't go to Europe, I'm sorry, I couldn't hear that you want to chew it, swallow it, I'm trying, you know. Well, you're working right now. What do you do chew while you're acting? This is this is this is the scenery.
Just the scenery. What is it?
What is it today? What's the carbohydrate today? You know, it might be less annoying than whatever you're eating now is just eating a banana and just making that sound that are very loud, that I'm that kind of sound. Should I do that? No, what is it what do you have going today? Today I was just having a I was having the end of a bit of a cookie. Oh, class.
Did you earn it? Oh, my God. I did a huge workout on a hike and everything.
What did you blast today? Was it tries or buys or do me a favor and don't say blast. Yeah, well, isn't that what you always say? Oh, gross. Oh I just, I just blasted my cos it's just such a gross word.
I had a trainer come over and blast my quads and listen.
Our listener, he's wearing a white really stretched out neru t shirt today. Like Uru it's a hennelly same thing.
It's almost looks like you're trying to make us believe that your muscles are breaking through the shirt when really that shirt would fit fine if it was the normal size.
This is an extra large baby size. So this is for us, for our baby that just got his cookie because he was good today.
Listen fellas. Yeah, yeah. Today we're going to we're going to make a real dent in our smart hlas ness. OK, today we have a scientist. Oh, I love it already. This is a Ph.D. He is the co-founder of several biotechnology companies. He's an inventor of thirty five patents. He's a co-director at the Harvard Medical School and he has been named one of Time magazine's 100 most influential people. He is also a three time runner up of People magazine's Sexiest Man of the year.
I'm not sure if that's how we're going to have to ask him about that. Sean Will and listener, this is Dr. David Sinclair. Doctor.
Oh, wow. Look, now, that's a sexy man right there. They're sexy, right? Yeah.
So not not true. All right. Three time runner up to the.
Did I just add that it was only two. It wasn't great. That's an exaggeration. Just a two time runner. It was four. But I got a quick shot of you at that beard on.
I bet you're going to win it this year. It's nice. David, thank you very, very much for joining us.
Now, guys, I will tell you, I had the pleasure of listening to David speak at a at a small, casual sort of lecture ish thingy and at someone's house, at someone's house.
And it really knocked me out.
Hollywood does it right, don't they? They just bring people in. Now, look, you know what brings somebody smart over here and let them talk to us?
David, basically, I know I couldn't get anyone else, so I wasn't.
But I know it.
And and he said some things that really straighten me out as far as my my my knowledge of of general health and mortality. He's a specialist in aging. And and I'm going to let him talk to you about some of the things that really knocked me out. I'm going to I'm going to tee you up here, David. There is. And please tell me how dumb I am and how much I did not remember. All of us are just him.
No, just David. OK, qualified folks.
Basically, the gist I got and then I'd love to hear all the specifics again, is that while there is a definite that we're all going to die, science and technology has now sort of given us an opportunity to have a little bit more to say about how we die when we die, the way in which the end of our life can be enjoyed. Now, those are all my dumb words. But is that generally what you guys are focused on a lot?
And hopefully you'll give us some some tips on how to how to improve that part of our life today? Yeah, sure.
I think you guys all know I'm one hundred and six hundred and six listener.
If you could see this guy, he doesn't look a day over thirty and it's it's pretty impressive. Yeah.
And I didn't pay you to say that. That's kind of you. But we're exactly the same age as we are.
We I think I remember that from that day. Isn't that and that's like I've always thought that I looked fairly young for my age at fifty one. Did you, David? I mean, come on, the guy you always thought that. I have always thought that. I haven't asked anybody to confirm that. But when I look at myself every morning, noon and night, I'm like, oh, look at you.
But David doesn't look older than thirty five does he. Yeah. Why do you look at your skin is incredible actually.
Well there's this thing on this software we're using. It's called the filter works really well. You guys should use it.
Yeah. Yeah. Right, right.
OK, first of all, you know that Jason, you and Jason at the same age, I don't know. Maybe. I've already Googled this, but you have to guess my age and also Seans. Oh, come on, come on, come on. Yeah, well, here we'll qualify.
I want you to I want you to guess her age and then tell us how old they actually look. Young, want you to guess it and then tell us what did they actually look like. Go ahead.
I'm going to regret this, so stop making faces will just look normal. Don't be nice. Like if you think we're older or whatever you want to do, just really guess.
Well, you know, have the advantage of in watching all of you for a number of years, I kind of know when you popped onto the scene only a couple of years for me because I just got started.
Yeah, that's true.
I would have said twenty six. Four. Well, sure.
I think we're all pretty similar in age. I don't know. I think maybe Sean, you're a bit younger, but yeah, I probably like the rest of us have been around for a while.
Yeah. By a decade.
Is that right. Yeah. Yeah. You've got to truly. You're forty one Sean. I'm forty one. Oh.
I also am a half a century old. 50. Wow. Thanks you guys.
Well so listen. So we're all ok. Just turned 50. Oh you did. Well yeah. Yeah. But David in 40 years will probably be not shocked if we die. But based on your research and on what you can perhaps share with us today, we can make that decade more enjoyable and perhaps not our last decade. Is this maybe accurate? How to how we go about doing that?
Yeah, so we're kind of at the level of the Wright brothers, it's nineteen eighty two. We're figuring out how to glide, but we do know it's possible to fly. So we've taught my colleagues and I thought about a hundred leaders in the world doing this. We call it ageing research, a longevity research. It's now a fact that modern science is caught up with ageing. For a while we ignored it. We thought it was natural, acceptable.
That's that's B.S. It's definitely not acceptable. It's the greatest cause of pain and suffering on the planet. And if you think heart disease, cancer and Alzheimer's about what do you think causes those bright young people don't get those diseases. It's a thousand times ageing and one time or twenty times all these other drivers of these disease. So my point is, if we can understand what causes ageing slower and even reverse it and we'll get to that, then these diseases either don't happen or you can take them away.
And what I was telling you, Jason, which I can now tell everybody who's listening, is my field.
And my and my lab at Harvard spent about 20 years figuring out what are the genes that control the ageing process. And we've been very successful. We have a handful of genes that seem to regulate all life forms on earth, from trees to worms to even humans. And we could even I could read your genes and tell you what the chances are if you live in a long time. But now actually that there's some new stuff which is blowing my mind and my mind takes a lot to be blown because I've seen pretty much everything happen.
But what I didn't realise is that ageing isn't just global, it's actually reversible. And we can do this in mice or easily. We can reverse the age of the eye in a mouse and make them see again these old mice. We can make them run 150 percent to 100 percent on a treadmill after just a few weeks of treating. And so we've these are the Wright brothers days or I imagine in twenty, thirty years we could have intercontinental air travel eventually go to the moon.
Do you think that you guys could in the lab maybe regrow shorn sense of humor? Like, would that be possible?
Like looking at that feet? And I used to like working on that.
It is true, though, that you are able to change the instead of the grey hair on mice now they no longer have grey hair. Is that that's not true, is it? Well, some people have done that.
That is true. You can now reverse grey hair. Actually, there's a drug on the market for cancer that these patients suddenly they think it was eleven out of thirteen patients got their hair back. You get the colour.
Oh, Sean. Well, just parked up. Let's go, let's go, let's go. He's going to go to bed. You need to get cancer first. Wait a minute.
This is fascinating to me because like think about it like, no, you can't catch cancer or leukemia or so. In other words, it's all that stuff is in us. And there are things that you can do in your life that are not good things that actually turn those little toggle switches on. And now all of a sudden you are on your way to getting cancer or leukaemia or diabetes or any of these other things. Speak a little bit of that, because that really resonated with me.
David. Well, so what really is driving all of these diseases is that our bodies become like a disease and unable to fight these diseases when we're young. If a cancer cell pops up, everybody's destroy it, or if there's misfolded proteins for Alzheimer's, our bodies destroy it, but we lose that ability to defend ourselves against diseases. And most people don't get that. They think diseases are inevitable. Oh, if you can stay young, physically young, you don't get them.
And what we figured out is only part of it is genetic. I know I said the genes are important, but actually only 20 percent of our longevity and our health in old age is our parents.
The rest is how we live our life, what we eat when we eat, um, how much we eat. So.
Eighty percent as far as like nature versus nurture, it is, it is nurture. Basically 80 percent of how you live will dictate how you die as a. Goes to hereditary, and we know that because there are these twins in Denmark that lived very different lives. Well, you know them.
Yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo. Sorry, David. Well, we know that only part of it is genetic because these twins in Denmark, if they lead very different lives, they have very different lifespans. Got it.
So basically, one of the things I remember you saying was that it was sort of very common for us to kind of die at 50, maybe 100 years ago or further like nowadays, you know, you die around 80, 90, 100, whatever you were saying, maybe in like 20 or 30 years, people will look back at this time and say, boy, it's so weird that everybody was OK with dying at 80. We're now living to be 120 because of, you know, not just what David Sinclair taught us and uncovered, but this whole sort of world of technology and science or what you guys are uncovering.
Yeah, for sure. And multiple technologies are advancing. So we've got some of my technology which reverses the age of cells. We got these wearables that are getting better and better. There are blood tests that we can do. I could take your blood, you guys, and tell you what to wear.
I know what an edible is. What's a wearable? You just get stolen from certain certain attire. Sporty bracelet. Wow.
It's just like THC based clothing. Yeah. It had to come. It had to happen. Yeah. Yeah. So what's a wearable David.
Oh well so it's, it's one of those watches that'll monitor your heartbeat and they're getting better and better. They can tell you your blood sugar. I'm wearing a ring that tells me how well I slept and what else I got up to last night.
I just found out about that. I was thinking I might get one because I was doing the thing. I was wearing the woop, the sleep band. I was wearing that and I was wearing the the Apple Watch and I'd wake up in the morning. This is true. And I wake up in the morning and I'd look at how I slept, you know, how many times I woke up and stuff because I'm a big sleep guy, right? I go I go to bed very early and I and I wake up early.
But I believe in getting a lot of sleep, very unemployed.
Unemployed sleep will make you live longer, that's for sure.
It definitely well. Right. Yeah. So sleep is really good. So I mean, this is great for all the people who go to Jason's movies and watch his shows because they get a lot of sleep. You're welcome. You're welcome.
Little naps here and there. What a service you're doing.
Sometimes it's thirty minutes, sometimes it's an hour. Sometimes it's an hour and a half full length movie. You know, whatever you need.
I got all I put it on and walk away. I hug that. That's the prescription from David given back.
So but listen, David, you know, everybody's interested in reversing the aging process. I mean, it's a topic that I'm sure nobody's not interested in.
So tell us about exactly if unless I'm jumping way far ahead, can you tell us what those are and what exactly how does that work? And is it all food based?
Like is it is it only have to do with what you eat or and what can we do on our own?
Yeah, there's a lot you can actually do. This isn't rocket science, actually. It's going to be easy to chew and aging and cancer in your daily life. What the kind of things that I do. Ah, eat less often. Get your heart rate up for at least ten minutes every day or so. I basically do do what we all did. Today is a good start. There you go. And the kind of foods a lot of people argue is that meat, is it not meat, but essentially you don't want to overload your body with with protein having sometimes when you're lower on protein.
So plant based Mediterranean, that's also very good.
And we as a group of people have been saying, oh, eat olive oil, you know, all these plant based foods exercise and nobody really understood until recently why that's good for you. It turns out these genes that we've discovered that control our longevity and make our bodies fight aging and disease are triggered by these lifestyles so we can turn on our bodies defenses, it's called or Mrs. or Mrs. Means what doesn't kill you makes you stronger.
And really, it's putting your body into a state of defensive mode, because if we just eat stuff and we're sitting around and we just watch Jason's movies about, he's going to get tired and they don't react to the onslaught which we're facing every day with chemicals and DNA damage. And so we have ways to trigger those by being hungry sometimes. I'll tell you specifics in a second. But but also what's interesting is we've we've now found certain chemicals that also mimic diet and exercise and give you the benefits or enhance a healthy lifestyle.
Yeah, because everybody is looking for a quick fix pill, anything. So they don't have to, you know, exercise or do the things you're saying they can eat anything I like. Yeah.
Do you have the. I just worked out for an hour pill. Yeah we do. Yeah.
Well we don't know if they work in humans, but in mice I can take an old mouse and make it a marathon runner. I'll take it.
How about I just blasted my quads capsule. Yeah, you might grow some whiskers, but other than that you'll be really healthy.
Super young thighs on. Well so how do you. Find out if you have these, you know, genes that like to respond to it. Yeah, well, have you guys done your genome yet?
No, no. What is done? Your genomes. So there are companies, right? There's a famous one. Twenty three me. There are others.
And so we will do it and they tell you what variation. So we all pretty much have the same genes, four of us. And so we pretty much have the same genes. But the variations on those genes and how they're controlled depends on how we live, but also what we were born with. But we can read what we got from our parents very easily. I could take your DNA in my lab tomorrow, tell you what your genome is.
It used to be a billion dollars, now takes about one hundred bucks. So there are genes. So the one there's one called Foxo three, which has its throughout the animal kingdom. We've got it in worms where it was first discovered, but it's also in Wales that live 300 years. And in our bodies there are certain variants that are known to be in people that live over 100 and you can just read it. So for instance, we all have two copies of each gene and I've got one longevity version and one regular version.
And I have three kids with my wife and all three of our kids got two of the best copies.
So even if they don't live very well, they have a better chance of making it tonight.
Well, in all seriousness, we have a lot of longevity in my family. My great grandmother died at hundred and five.
Three of my grandparents died at 97 to tumor 97, one at 95. I guess I just I had part.
And so I guess I'm saying, is there a medal for that? Like, where do.
Well, I don't feel like, I don't know, a trophy or something. I feel like I'm not a contest.
So my point is and it usually skips a generation.
I used to always Jayson's people all died in both holding up nets in the Mediterranean diet like forty two. OK, so but with like a jug of wine broken at their feet. But but I so my question is, I always joke that, that, you know, people say, why do you smoke cigarettes?
And I go, yeah, sometimes I smoke. I said I have to because I have to offset because of the advances in medical science, I know that they're going to make everybody live for so long. And I go, I can't keep this going forever. No, this looks too good, so I need to offset it. Unfair to other dudes.
It's unfair because I feel like I'm going to live to be about 130 logit. We can only hope. David, can I come over and will you draw some my blood?
Sure. He cracked himself up on that. David, we can do that. Hey, so sorry.
My question my real question was, does that make a difference? All the different sides of my family with all this longevity, does that make a difference at all? Yeah. Yeah. And can you change that as well?
Well, it's difficult to change it, but we're getting better at going in and changing genes using technologies like CRISPR. But, yeah, the genes are important. But remember, only 20 percent. So. Well, I'm afraid you're probably not going to make it that long unless you live a healthy lifestyle, too. And we know that people who smoke, not occasionally but a lot have accelerated biological age, which we can measure now. Yeah. So it might be balancing out.
We'll say we can test.
And you said you you said depending on what does that word you use that we have the technology and what was it called CRISPR.
What's CRISPR are so CRISPR is about ten years ago, scientists discovered that you can go in and actually change an exact part of a cell's DNA with an enzyme. And it's being used right now to to fix genetic diseases in the eye and restore vision. And eventually pretty much every disease this genetic can be fixed. Wow, that's great.
What about diabetes? Hang on. Hang on a second.
What now? What about diabetes? Potentially. But what if, like, Will's got, you know, humorously small feat. So if he wanted to go from a size five up to like the size of, like, I would say, elford to change his foot size from a five to a nine foot, he could you go into like a crisping tub or something or respect everything because I eat plenty of Krispy Kreme time.
Is there a tub of Crisco, Chris? Oh, that I could go and do like fries once a fries are done. Could he put his feet in there?
Yeah, I think there's a Jason hasn't been able to feel anything below his navel for about fourteen years. So is there any way that we could revive him, so to speak, when the onion rings are done?
No, sorry, David.
The ultimate reversal, I'd say.
Yeah. Yeah. Sean? Yeah, how are you? I'm good, how are you? I'm good. You know what I've been having I guess I didn't realise you weren't really interested in how he's doing because you just wanted to. I wasn't really interested in how you were doing. I wanted to talk about how I was. Sure, sure. Go ahead. I just felt like Kids of Social Convention. I'm like, how are you?
But I don't write till I get full disclosure. The first three words you could ask me, don't go ahead.
You know, I've had as you know, I've had a few back issues the last couple of weeks, actually. Yes. A little bit out from golfing. And I've been using you know, it's been helpful CBT and it's the best.
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I want to kind of get back to where you something you said, which is that if I'm just working out again for the first time in months because I take issue, I take issue with that because it will feel like you're not recognising how hard I've been working in the months prior. No, I have.
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Sean, you know, this is just like a little voiceover guy trick. Yeah. When you have to say like hard like peas and stuff like that, you should just brush off the mic a little bit.
Yeah. Am I doing a lot today. No, but a couple of times. But nothing that we can't clean up, you know, in Rob and Ben and I'll get in there, we'll have to clean it all up and rescue.
So you stand and and and fix that. Well, I'm just here to clean your peas, bro.
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And now back to the show. What could one do to turn on these beneficial parts of our sort of our stock system here to to fight the stuff that that shortens our life?
Well, it's much easier changing a life than changing your genes. And remember, 80 percent. So it's very doable. So what do I do? I try to get at least one meal a day, feel a little bit hungry, but not too bad. Just have a cup of tea. I work out four times a week, so I'm trying to keep my muscles going and flexible and then I try to keep my my heart running. So every other day I'll get my heart rate up and I try to focus on plant based foods, though I do like a good burger occasionally, but all of that is good.
And then I take a few of the molecules that my left has worked on as well, because I remember what you're saying you alluded to a few minutes ago, which is if you can if you can trip your system into sort of forget the word you use, sort of like a defensive cosmesis. Yeah, right. Where and it's triggered sometimes by hunger, not starvation, but hunger, where the body thinks, oh, I might be starting to starve here.
It kind of clicks into this mode. That is the molecules, the energy, the proteins, whatever it is you'll tell us that actually start to fight the bad stuff, the cancer, the diabetes, the leukemia, whatever it may be, we kind of activate that army and it comes out into our system while we are a little bit hungry. And that sort of speaks to kind of micro fasting.
Yes, intermittent fasting works. Try to be hungry for all you can do a 16 versus eight hours so you can be hungry for 16 hours.
And I usually I'll eat dinner at seven at night and I won't eat until the next day at about noon or one.
Perfect. That's kind of perfect, right? Yeah, that's what I did. That's a good, good way to do it. I'm not sure, you know, drinking whiskey late at night is very good for you. And that's why I have a whiskey drip that I like that part out.
I have a whiskey drip while I let him finish. David Yeah.
Jason's gone as long as forty five minutes without food. Would that be considered good. A good run.
But it is true if you don't eat from like six pm till like noon the next day, if you can honestly go those 18 hours every single day, you're getting yourself into a into us into a state where you're not only you're getting gorgeously lean. All right, let's be clear.
But you are killing the things that could kill you. You are killing the things that could kill you. So you're going to be gorgeous, but for a very long time.
Yes. In principle, yeah. That's the way to do it. And it's not that hard if you're really starving, you're not doing intermittent fasting correctly. You get used to it after about a week or two anyway. Yeah, I'm not I'm not very good at it. I can only go for one or two meals somehow.
I'll look at you. Look at you though. You're being very humble. Look at you. Look twelve.
It is remarkable how young you look. I will say that it's right. It's crazy. I'm not talking to you, Sean. No, no. I just I'm complimenting myself. So Sean's looking at a long, full length mirror, right.
I bring a mirror with me wherever I go. But let me ask you something so I've never met you. I'm already unbelievably fascinated by everything.
But for an idiot like myself. So you are a doctor who specializes in anti aging philosophy, science techniques, whatever this and Jason mentioned, when he is introducing you that you have thirty five patents like in what and what are they and what are they used for.
Because I, you know, the George Foreman grill. Have you ever seen that. Yeah. OK, what's yours. Yeah that's yours. He well it just the tilt part on it charging just the part, it just drips off it.
Without that you're going to eat all that fat. But what David did was he put it on an angle. It goes into a tray between a drip straight up. It's unbelievable. And you'll live. Well, I don't need to watch the YouTube video for the trees to be flat.
I fixed it right. It's important no one but tell me about like because I'm an idiot. So, so far, intermittent fasting check. Got that. What else can we do and what are your patterns for?
Well, the exercise is real. Olive oil is good. Resveratrol and red wine is one of the molecules we worked on. So red wine in moderate doses is good.
What do you want.
What what are moderate doses of one glass or two is?
I need to tell my sponsor I'm going to tell myself I've been sober a number of years, but if it's coming from a doctor, I'm just going to say, look, I need to go over your head on this one, but I want to kind of live a little longer.
And I know that you guys frown on the drinking in AA, but, yeah, there's resveratrol live in anything else other than red wine.
Not really. Not in any amounts capsule. Sure, you can buy a pure. Yeah, I stick some of that in my Yorga.
You can buy it pure. Yeah it's available. I'll get it from a reputable supplier.
Make sure it's. White or gray powder, not brown, that means it's bad, not out of the back of a van. No, you don't recommend the back of a van.
So are you recommending everybody go get their jeans tested for 100 bucks, whatever you said?
And then from that, it's determined what you should avoid or what you should increase or decrease, and that's your base and then kind of restructure your life according to those results.
Yes, absolutely. That's the way to do it. And that's it's called optimization. So take take me, for example, I've looked at my genome. I've talked to colleagues or should I do I eat this? I should do that. I went from a blood test that said I was 58 and I was actually 48 at the time, changed my life, changed my lifestyle, lost a bit of weight, the right thing. And then that blood test, you know, it's a bit of alchemy, but it's still somewhat interesting to do.
It came back and I was thirty one point four. So I think there is a lot you can do very quickly within a matter of months to bring your health way back. In terms of health and longevity. I believe you won't hear about pets.
Yes, when I hear about the patents and I also want to hear about diabetes because my husband and I know that they took a little bit of brain matter from Jason.
They said the brain of a three year old. You know about this? Yeah.
Yeah. I got the youth going to the wrong part, but I'm very, very pointed. But really. Yeah, the brain I'm trying to age my brain now is writing stuff down. He wrote that down. Not so important that information. It's all for the deposition.
Well, oh look, I got three.
There's something that I want to tell you. We because we we think we figure out how to reverse the age of cells. And we've done this, as I said, for the eye of old mice. And hopefully in two years we'll have tried this in people with glaucoma pressure in the eye. We're also now doing an experiment to reverse the age of an old brain so mice get old after about two years and they forget things typical like a human would at about age eighty five.
Now we're going to test what happens when you turn the age of the brain back to being young again. Maybe not to three, but let's say to the equivalent of a twenty year old. Do you lose your memories or do you regain lost memories?
And we'll know that pretty soon. That's crazy. That's crazy. I don't know.
With all your signs, I don't know if you're going to be able to go back and fix this.
Old School of enlightenment stays intact.
Well, rest assured, David, what what what is the what is the breakthrough that you are most excited to see if you happen to live long enough to experience the things that you were exposed to, like, you know, is it is it living on the moon or is it is it, you know, probably in your field? I'll bet, you know, it's probably not living on the moon.
Well, you know, I'm trying to I don't know how old our listener is. Our listener never gets old. Yeah.
It's you know, I'm doing my life's passion. I don't want to do anything else with my life. I would have left a long time ago if I did want to do something else. So I'm trying to figure out how to reset the body and make it healthy again. And I think where we've we've cracked something here, the fact that we can not just make cells behave like the young, but actually be young again, reset it. I'm basically back to a twenty year old from a from an eight year old in the mouse.
Is that because you can start a process somewhere in a cellular area of the body and that it will sort of, for lack of probably an accurate term, metastasize across the body and make the rest of the body as young as that one spot? Because it would it strikes me as like you can't just treat one cell and make that good. They all have to become younger again. And it's sort of self-perpetuating.
Well, we don't know the answer in much the same way that it does on the on the aging side. Right. Like all the cells kind of age and make one another age, I suppose.
Well, there are certain cells that communicate to other cells. So if you change the age of the brain, it looks like the brain can tell the rest of the body to to be young again. But I think we're probably going to have to reprogram most of the tissue separately. And we're working on that. What we do is we introduce three very early genes, meaning these are genes that we only have on when we're a fertilized egg and developing in the womb and they say when we become adults.
But we find that if we turn these three genes on in a mouse that's old, it resets the clock, it resets the genome so that the cell reads it again. But of course, not one not one cell. We're resetting tens of thousands and eventually billions of cells in the body. But it's a true reset. This isn't just, oh, I'll do a bit of exercise and I'll get a little bit healthy.
This would be great. It's not conditioning it.
Yeah, well, we actually we built the system so that when these genes get introduced, the permanent and we can turn them on just by taking an antibiotic, doxycycline, for example, you might use that for a Lyme disease or something. It's very safe. And so what we do with these mice. Is we genetically modified their eyes, we can damage their eyes or let them get old, and then we just give them a course of three weeks of antibiotics and they get the right side back.
Imagine that in a human, you reengineer your body. So you have these three youthful genes. And every time you want to fix your body or reset your age, you just take a course of antibiotics for three weeks.
Jesus Christ, would it be similar to how some species can shed skin and so the old skin goes off in a new skin is right underneath it and has pushed the old stuff out and it replaces it sort of seamlessly? Yeah, you're on to something.
What we think is there are species that we know can regenerate. So you cut off is Taylor or his back. What else? You can cut off the finger of a mouse that actually can grow like starfish, starfish, a lot of species regrow, even a jellyfish.
You can take a piece of a jellyfish that can grow a whole new adult. And we can also clone things. We can clone people, probably, but we haven't had permission. But you can clone dogs.
Do you think someone's done it? Is there is there a fair chance that somebody's done it? I don't think so.
Well, the reason I think not, because if if that person was crazy enough to do it, they'd be crazy enough to have a press conference is right. I do know somebody who cloned their dog that was wild.
Really. They did successfully cloned it. Yeah, I. I saw it. Well, my question is this.
So you're doing this. This is incredible stuff. And of course, this is like this is going to shift the conversation of our entire existence. Right. And this is getting down to this is this is it. This is the most existential. Right. So first of all, you must have I've spent a bit of time around because of what we do. I've spent some time around, some people who are crazy, rich, who have all the resources.
And the one thing they always talk about, because it's the one thing they can't control is their health. And they're in in getting older like it makes them fucking crazy because they've got everything else. They've got billions of dollars. You can only have you can only fly so many private jets around the world and have so many yachts. But they're like the one thing that they want to have more than anything is youth. And they hang around with younger people because they're like vampires, et cetera, et cetera.
You must have all these incredible billionaires, these one percenters banging down your door. Do you not saying hurry up, hurry up. Can you see one elasticity on my skin again?
Yeah, I know a fair number of people. Yeah, I put it that way.
I bet also. Can I jump line in front of them a because I'm a cool guy, they're all so fucking boring and I'm a lot more fun to hang out with I guarantee you. And I'm not going to name names on the air, you put some jet hours on that and had to jet hours.
But I will say this. I can add a lot of laughs. And that plane, it sucks if you're not having a laugh, A and B, let me have it before. Beyman because I want to start getting I'm not saying he doesn't get to have any of the magic pills. I want him to have it, but let me have it like a week before.
What is what is the ultimate, what is your ultimate dream for the for further human race. Like what do you wish there was a pill that everybody could take.
I mean we've been told it's all about diet and exercise our whole lives. And of course, that's that's the answer for everything. And everybody knows that answer. It's just up to you whether you implement that or not into your life. But to you, what is the ultimate goal?
Yeah, it's to have a pill or a combination of pills that truly reset resets the age of the body. And I know we've been working on this as a species for the last probably half a million million years.
But nobody's had this technology. No one's been able to take a blind mouse and reset the age of the eye and make it sea again. So that's why I say it's like the Wright brothers, Wright, the Wright brothers. Everyone said, come on, you can't fly. Humans were never meant to fly, but they did it. And suddenly the world changed. And I truly believe it or at that point now with aging. Right.
And has anybody ever discussed with you about the population control thing about like I imagine if you're in the business of prolonging people's lives, I'm sure there are people not loving that because they say the world is already overpopulated. And why are we trying to interrupt nature's course of resetting itself?
And there's a great deal of money to be made on people that are not in good health.
This comes up a lot and I've written about it. There are two sides to it.
Yeah, there are certain people who will live longer that we probably don't want to live longer. That's one of the downsides. But there's also you look at history.
I like to look at history and use it to predict the future. You know, when people were dying in their forties and fifties and women would die in childbirth, the world had a lot fewer people. But was that a better world? And I'm of the belief that humans can innovate their way around anything. And actually, if you do the math, if we were to stop everybody dying right now, the planet wouldn't get hugely overpopulated, not very quickly anyway.
And in Europe and increasingly in the US, we're actually slowing down our population growth to the point of being negative. And so it'll be replacement will probably top out about 11 billion on the planet. And then we'll be hopefully steady state with people living 110, 120, eventually longer than that. When do you think that'll be that people will commonly live past 100?
Well, so my colleagues often don't like it when I say these things because they want it all to be based, in fact, whereas, you know, I'm trying to predict the future. It's always dangerous. I would say within our lifetime there will be medicines available to slow aging and some that will reverse it.
But the question also becomes great. So you lived to be 103, but what is your life like?
What is your body like, the quality of life in that last decade?
Well, this is the key. This is the key question. And what we know from these animal studies, whether they're in I've mentioned mice, but we've done a lot of people done monkey studies, dog studies and even studies with pills in humans. We know that these interventions, we call them that slow down aging, they slow down aging in the whole body. So it's not like heart medicine that just keeps your heart healthy, but your brain gets old.
It's very different. So what you get are these animals that live a lot better and healthier. They're vibrant and then they die much quicker. Look at humans that live over 100. They cost about a third of the health care cost of someone who gets sick before. So it's also a huge cost saving as well. And these people are productive, helping with grandkids, going back to work. It's a huge boon to the economy as well. Right.
And so but that's interesting. You say that people actually you might live longer, but your period of death is sort of truncated, right? So you have a you don't you don't die in some protracted, miserable sort of these machines are keeping you alive. And we call that modern medicine.
Unfortunately, that's what we've been trying to do, which is treat one disease at a time, puts the patient out the door. They come back with something else, treat that and repeat until failure. And that's not the way to do it. Money. Yeah, right. Well, yeah, because, you know, also I was here about Alzheimer's, diabetes, you know, heart conditions.
You know, I was here about, you know, three to five years away. There are three to five years away of getting a vaccine or a cure or something, some kind of something.
And I never see any results of those. You know, it's just an ongoing thing.
It's very frustrating.
Obviously, it's all financially based. And if we cure something, then there's no money in it anymore. And.
But what do you say to that? Because my mom died from Alzheimer's. My husband has diabetes.
Like, I know all of these people who have all these issues that we just keep hearing. Good news is on the horizon and we never get it.
Well, we do get it, but it's usually it's it's small increments. There's never oh, suddenly we can cure Alzheimer's. That doesn't happen. And the problem really is that it's easy to say it's in five years, but because now I've lived it, I've started a number of biotech companies, it's way harder than most people think.
It's at least ten years from start to finish and about a billion dollars, which is very hard, of course, to do a trial, to get a drug on the market.
And most drugs fail, 90 percent of them fail. So it's easy to say five years. It's much harder to do. But but if you look at the long arc of history, we are making progress. People are not suffering like they did even ten years ago, especially in the cancer field. Huge breakthroughs there. But for aging, not so much the though. And I want to quickly tell you about the diabetes area. There were some really good diabetes drugs.
I think we have a much better handle on that disease. Type two diabetes, not so much. One is that is that what you're referring to? Type one diabetes or type one? Yeah, that one's harder. Yeah, that's not easy because there's all sorts of cells you have to replace.
But they have a big breakthrough in Type one diabetes about five, ten years ago.
Well, the stem cell replacement seems to be going well. Yeah, but that's that's really hard.
Is stem cell similar to CRISPR, that same thing? Well, it can be together. You can go into the cells in your body or you can take your stem cells out, fix those and put them back in. And that's that's that's actually done. So, for instance, sickle cell anemia has been cured now by taking out the blood stem cells and fixing those and put them back in. Wow. Well, yeah, I want to talk to you about businesses and stuff that I know it's exciting.
No, I'm no, I'm happy because you said I want to talk to you. And I just thought, here we go.
Sean found out. But you obviously haven't found out yet. So, yeah, I I'd love to talk to you about this business is not that this is something completely different.
And I got yeah.
This is I want to talk about businesses have had to be flexible this past year from, you know, working remotely to pivoting to long term survival and growth and all that. And I know like in like the theater world and Broadway and performing arts companies are streaming stage shows now in musicals and all that kind of stuff. You know, you can buy tickets and everything and all kinds of businesses are doing a bunch of different things to adhere to these new kind of guidelines of how well.
And they're also they have to change the way they do business. You know, I was just thinking kids like, you know, you've got major clothing companies that are producing in ninety five masks and in hospital gowns and beverage companies are started producing hand sanitizer.
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Oh, sure. Oh, sure. Oh, I'm laughing, what can I say? Well, I feel so great. Why? Yes, why? Yes.
I'm going to guess how you slept on your Hilux mattress. Is that correct? Are you kidding me? Are you kidding me right now?
I said I read your mind. That's exactly right. Yeah. You know.
You know, I can read minds because I also slept great. You did? Yeah. And you feel clear.
You feel clear that I can read into your mind because I had a great nights like mattress. Yeah.
I feel so good because I like that he likes mattress that I got in. I don't know what I was saying the other day. What it's like six months or so that I've been sleeping on this thing. Yeah, it's changed my life.
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We all took the Helix Quiz. And Sean, if you remember. Yeah, we got three different mattresses because we're not the same person.
We're three different people. That's right. We've had our mattresses for months now.
I use it to sleep. I use it to lounge on when I'm watching. Oh, he's making a list, folks. He's make a list. I use it when I'm rolling calls. Sure. And I use it also.
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And back to the show, let me ask you something that might be outside of your specialty, it's just something I've always been fascinated by. And maybe you can tell me something if you know about it is the actual science of the of the brain that I'm sure is sending out all these messages to these cells about how to age and how not to age and whatnot. Do some of the limitations come in progress from still not truly understanding how the brain works and what the brain does as far as sending out messages like what is the equation of a thought?
Literally how one gets an idea and like, how do you like what does that look like? That's not zeros and ones and it's not proteins. It's like, does it live in that? Are we any closer to figuring out how the brain actually creates thinking and what that looks like from a from an equation standpoint?
We are actually there are some people who are able to model the brain. And the problem has been a reductionist attitudes until recently, meaning you go into the brain, you put a neuron in the dish and you look at how the neuron works, that's great. But because you've got, you know, a trillion cells in your brain, there's emergent properties, as they say. So one nerve is not going to be a brain to nerves and can be brain, but a trillion will be.
So what people are discovering actually is similar to a computer. If you look at a, you know, one transistor, it's not going to tell you how computer work, but you have to look at the whole thing. Same with the brain. And there's a guy called Henry Mok, who's a really controversial figure in Europe, but he managed to model a mouse brain and now he's done a human brain. And he did it because, you know, typical neural nets are looking at binary basically computer code.
He said, let's get away from binary, which is how big companies like Facebook and Google do it. And he said, let's let's figure out how to model a nerve cell and then put a trillion of those together because nerve cells, they work rather than just on and off like a computer. It's more like a record player or a cassette tape. They have what's called analog information. Long story short, when he built this brain in the computer, it behaved in ways that he could never have predicted with waves of thought going through the system.
So I think we're getting close, but you need the trillions of trillions of little individual machines put together to make that happen.
Wow. So we're all going to be cyborgs in about two thousand years. Well, yes, but I don't believe that you can download your brain easily. That, to me, is much harder than solving aging. Yes, right. All right.
Do you ever see a day when. You know, this kind of theory has been tossed around in science fiction, where at a very young age, you can download information into the human brain so that a whole set of encyclopedias are all of Google into your brain, like in The Matrix, where they learn how to fly the helicopter.
Well, not so much that I mean, not so much that, but so that just.
You mean about flying helicopters to be about flying helicopters. You mean about I go to sleep and I you down low.
I go to sleep, I wake up and I know how to speak French and my son in the Matrix I wake up, I'm carrying the helicopter, I look like carry on Mars in the morning I'm going to be a bunch of carrion masses wearing tight leather.
Sean, what are you getting?
David, can that work?
Do you know that, Sean, if you open up a cross section of Sean's brain, it just it's like a mouse on a on a treadmill in the Benny Hill theme song at that.
I don't know. That's why I'm exhausted all the time.
David, how did you get attracted to studying about about aging specifically? Was it's kind of just a process of what you became interested in medical school, or was it was it something when you were a kid you lost a relative at too young an age or.
Yeah. Don't need therapy. I'm probably this is my therapy. There was a moment when my grandmother who helped raise me, she was very brutal. She grew up in World War Two and she just said everything that was truthful. So I like most kids, I said, oh, grandma, will you always be around to protect me? And I was about three and a half years old. And she said, no, I'm going to die and then you'll be alone because just like mortality and we all go through that.
But that, I think, set me in motion. But I've always like pulling things apart, machines, cocoon spiders, that kind of stuff. And I figured, why not figure out the hardest problem that we haven't solved, which I thought was was aging.
And you're feeling bullish that that you will see the fruits of your labor before you do you expect to benefit from the science that that you are navigating now when it comes when it comes your time to slow down a bit?
Well, I feel like I'm already benefiting whenever I get something that's convincing and say if I apply it and then my family, who's a bunch of scientists, also applies it. My father's eighty now and outdoing his peers.
So what about your kids? So do you are you applying this stuff to your kids lifestyle or are they taking it on or they like going with their friends and their friends are like, hey, let's grab a Big Mac. And they're like, no way, I'm just going to eat this leave. You know why? Because I'm going to live to be three million and you're going to die next week.
You know, I think that the opposite that they're like, oh, screw it. Dad says, I'm going to do the opposite. Is that right? Cause we're a very normal family. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Tell me about I'm sorry to keep coming back to this, but tell me about your patents. Are your favorite two out of your eight hundred will?
They're mixed. What I do in my lab is I bring together people that have very different views and skills from computer technicians to other people, can read a genome on a little muesli bar type of thing, health bar. So what we do, I have about 20 or so people at Harvard and we don't work on what's the next thing to discover from where we are. We just sit around saying what's what's a really good question to answer? And once you have a good question, then we figure out how to answer it.
So one of them, which you might be surprised about, well, actually, probably half of them have nothing to do with aging. One interesting one was we were trying to figure out how to speed the transmission of genetic data across the Internet. And we came up with the idea that instead of having binary code, which is zeros and ones, we could use four letters, which is what DNA is based on. So we used what's called base for math.
I mean, what happened? It's an interesting story. I'll be very quick. That led to us developing little mini supercomputers in my office on my desk, which eventually moved into my garage, which eventually moved into a company. And then we used that knowledge and better math and algorithms to build what's called a graph, a mathematical graph of the human genome.
Then we use that same technology to build a graph of all known pathogens in the world, including now over or coronavirus, too. And now we can take anyone's blood at this company and take out the human DNA because we have technology to do that. It's related to CRISPR. Instead of changing genes, we use that as a fishing rod and pull out the human DNA. What's left behind?
All the pathogens, the viruses, the fungi, the bacteria. Then we read all that DNA, pump it into our supercomputer and it says, oh, you have the flu. Don't worry, you don't have covid-19. And that's actually one of the ones I'm most proud of because my daughter, our daughter, Natalie, a middle daughter, she had Lyme disease and the test for Lyme disease, was taking a week and she was losing her eyesight. I said, we've got to have a better way to do this.
So we invented that. Wow, wow.
This is crazy, that story. I literally I did the same thing.
I did the exact all of you forgot to pack all of that stuff other than the daughter part.
You just didn't take the step to patent. Inventing this supercomputer with my buddies and moving it into my garage and then doing beat back by picking up and leaving just the funky album and I'm like, I'm thinking nobody's going to relate to this. And then I met David. And it's incredible because I can't tell these two idiots they don't know. But you and I are speaking a language because we're both inventing.
So, David, if I go out and I get my my blood taken and do all this gene research and stuff like that, can I expect to get basically a prognosis, a menu of, OK, Jason, you are susceptible to dying from heart disease, but not cancer or leukemia, not Alzheimer's, et cetera, et cetera. So then you can be a little bit more sort of focused on the preventive measures that you might take specifically to those.
Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Without that, you're flying blind. It's like driving a car without a dashboard. Who would do that? Right. So I'm I'm very much driven by data and a lot of people are scared by what they might learn. But you learn interesting and important things. So one of one of the things is it's it's a learning lesson. My kids all have their genome. Actually, I got my grandmother's genome. She was about 85 and I gave her a tube to spit and she was thinking, worst president ever.
And you have the receipt. Yeah, right. Right. Can we give this back? So we we do our genome because it does tell us what we should try to avoid. So I've got genes for type two diabetes and obesity. So I changed my lifestyle to avoid that. Same with my father. It's actually quite accurate in our experience. My father had genes or variant of a gene for macular degeneration and that's starting to show up. So I would highly recommend it.
Now, we don't know everything, of course, because we're still learning, but it's getting better and better each year as we we learn what these variations lead to. And for instance, my wife, her mother has this bowel disease and she learnt my wife learned that she had the same susceptibility genes when she did the test. So she changed her whole life. She actually she left work. She started eating differently. And so those kind of things can really make a difference.
So in addition to perhaps some intermittent fasting exercise diet, I think you mentioned that there's also some supplements and maybe that's not the right term that you can take that can augment this amplify that work. Is that true?
Yeah, it is. I have to be careful because I'm I'm not a doctor. And also Harvard Medical School that frowns on supplements. They like pharmaceuticals that are proven to work.
But there's this middle ground where there are these safe, similarly safe supplements that probably won't hurt you, that have a chance of helping you in the long run, some of which I take not not a bunch.
And someone who's curious could find these things out by researching you online or reading one of your books, or how does Jason find out what to think?
I'm trying to get some free medical advice. No one's listening to it. Just whisper it.
So my book, the book that came out a few months ago is called Lifespan Page 304. Turn to that. And it's the cheat sheet. But but try try to read the other parts.
It's also a little bit tracing a book is imaginative, but it's broken into pages of chapters left to right, top to bottom.
Yes. You got it. Yeah. Yeah. Actually I put pictures in the book so.
Oh this is nice. And color those pop up.
You know d as far as the jeans go, when you when you suggested we all get our, our genome tested or revealed whatever, that we can just ask our own doctors like they would and they would have the information on how to do that or not really.
You just go directly to the companies and they send you a kit.
Oh I saw one of those. Right, right, right. That's what you want from me. And I come to the lab, David. I guess that's what we're all getting at. Can we just want to come to the lab?
You strap me to a table, take all my blood, strip my genome, whatever it is, take it all, take my genes off.
No, he's talking about my genome. Jean-Noel My my genome.
I just I just checked. I had somebody go out and check my genome on the yard. He's Belgian.
He's got a little red hat and he is. That's a no, no, no, no.
Well, I think he's Belgian. My friend, my friend Kevin Nealon thought twenty three and he was a dating site.
Anyway, they're good.
So but can we get to Sean's point, like, what is the best course of action. I guess so. Is to get with one of these companies. I think people are worried now because they feel like if they send their DNA into 23 and me, they're going to, you know, next week, their uncle is going to be found out to be, you know, a mass murderer, which seems to happen a lot. Yeah. Which is kind of cool.
I got to say, there is that downside.
You can ask the companies to keep it totally anonymous. I think that's the best way. That's what I did.
But, yeah, it's a slight risk. I'm not actually sure if there was a company that deletes the data once. Once you've done it would be good. But you can come to the lab. You. The problem is you can't have 10000 or 100000 people listening here, maybe more come to my lab, but if you guys want to come, I can I can definitely do some tests and we can film that if you want. And we'll put you on a treadmill and see how you do.
You know, I love that very special two parter. Yeah, we do that around sweep's.
Do we have SWEEP's in podcasting? Sure.
Well we probably do now. Oh God created David. We have taken a lot of your time. I can't thank you enough. I thought we were going to get all the way through without anybody making a jeans joke and then I did it.
But that was too low even for me that fruit was low hanging. I can hear you guys restraining yourselves out of respect, but so I apologize for that. But thank you very, very much for joining us and making us a little less on smart today with with your style is fascinating. I love this.
I'm going to check out your book and read more about what's so fascinating and what's your book called again? Life Span, Life Span, Why We Age and Why We Don't Have To Much.
I love it. I love it. I can't even remember the name of the book. I'm such a dummy. It's an old braining. Oh, wait. Thank you. Thanks, David.
I need to get there. I can't wait for you to give me give me a new brain.
It's going to try being hungry a little bit. Will go for anything. Yeah. What's hungry.
David. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you guys. It's been fun. Thank you my friend. All right. Good bye. So I could have talked to him for nine hours, isn't it pretty interesting that, you know, you cannot catch any of these diseases that kill you? They're all in us. All of these diseases, they're all in us. And if you behave a certain way, you just wake him up. You will turn those things on and they will kill you.
You know what? You know what? Disease always gets turned on me is the horndog disease they turned on.
So my thing is like, if there's all this information about all this antigens that that works, how is this not bigger news?
Like how do we make this?
You know, I was I was going to mention that to him and I thought, well, that might be offensive. Yeah, exactly. It's like like what are they holding back? Why is this not leading the national news?
I think the problem is, is that people are so wrapped up. As you know, people are just busy with just other shit going on and they just go like, yeah, that sounds great. Live forever. OK, that sounds great. You don't understand. I just got insulted on Twitter. Right.
Those are things that I think get the most attention is like, you know, the beauty product business is like a multi, multibillion dollar. But then but then you look at the existential issues like climate control and it's like it's too far out there. If we do something that's really good today, we won't see the benefits for like 30 years.
And this is the same with this stuff by virtue, but very definition is most existential issue. There is is our existence. Right. So so I will not.
Will, if you're going to throw up, we can just pause for a second. I almost you know, it's this is the problem with you snacking while we're, you know, one of those a hamster like the water bottle hamster thing is just one for food.
These aren't long sessions. You can go an hour probably without chewing. Right. You know what? Because because I need to fuel this Chassy. Because they've got I'm shorting so hot. Right. Maybe widen out your shot a little bit. I know what I'm talking about. Oh.
Or God help us. All right, guys, that's disgusting.
Well, just pulling up his shirt and that guy, you got to get a job. You're turning a shade of tan that you're going to be on the street one day without work.
With my shirt off, I'm pretty sure 18 hours in the sun isn't on Dr. David Sinclair's list of antics. You're good on vitamin D.
Only reason I have eighteen hours in the sun is because once it's the summer solstice, I move to the Arctic Circle just to maximize sun per day.
I'm so the opposite of you, Todd. My friend Todd calls me a human bounce card.
Yeah, you are even the whitest man to not go outside at all. You're not. You don't go swimming. Beautiful pool. I swim in your pool many times. Never. You've never been in it any time. I've used your pool twice and maybe fourteen years.
Is that true or Jason, are you getting in the pool at all with your kids. It was in about an hour ago. You were. Hmm. I'm in it all the time.
I went for another long hike and stuff outside today. I worked out outside in the morning.
What am I going to do? And I just attract Sun and David, you guys got a trout. Sorry. Hang on a second. You were the. Yeah, yeah, I'm. Wow. So I tracked and so the David said he needs the sun looks down, sees will and says, oh let's, let's shoot it over.
And this guy, this guy's got more power than me. Look at how David said. And according to David, he didn't even say it. But David said, this guy's living forever. And you guys, he's got more power.
That's disgusting. You're disgusting. You're fucking gross. Thank you. I don't I don't understand.
You're so threatened. You're both so threatened and. All right, Sean, you said better than ever.
There's the best I've looked at. I don't think that's true. That is true. You do look all right, guys. I love you. I love you. OK, that was a great job.
I was amazing. I love great. Thank you. Just great guests. God, that was so cool.
Honestly, we are both not going to be thinking about this. Should we win all the time. Can we please go to Harvard, the three of us, and let it wait?
I'm not kidding. I want to go. I want to. I want to go.
I mean, that would be nice. I'll do it. Let's do it. All right. OK, yeah. What you guys have gone to, where would you go. Bucharest together. Istanbul.
Bucharest in Romania. Yeah, we went well OK. Next door.
Budapest or Istanbul or and then we went to we've also been to Venice, Italy.
So we can make it to Boston. We can make it about. Yeah that was I mean I got a very special two parter at the end of the season. We're going to do it for sweeps.
We already agreed how if I can go there, I no fuckin matter of fact, I know a kid is fucking mother used to work with me down there, but he's doing his accent.
We got to stop the stop. OK, ok baby. It's the work I love.
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