Hello, listener, this is Jason Bateman, along with Will Arnett and Sean Hayes for the podcast called Smart List. That's a place you're looking for. You found it. Congratulations. It's not a real high concept podcast. One person invited guests. The other two don't know who that guest is. And then we chat.

Here we go, Swaby. Smart, smart lists as presented by AutoZone, America's number one battery destination. Make a donation to St. Jude the next time you visit AutoZone as part of the St. Jude thanks and giving campaign going on all November and December. Jason, let me just ask you something.

I know that you're a fan of like sort of energy bars and that kind of thing. Is there a part of you that goes maybe I should just eat some Whole Foods and not just eat like, you know, stuff that they have at the space station? Well, and are you going to the bathroom constantly?

Yeah, it helps me because, you know, I'm on the go. You know, I'm just not. You must be. It sounds like an ad that you got to stop. And sometimes when I don't have the time to eat the way I want to eat, I grab a snack bar.

Yeah. So you're on the go and they make you go. I bet a lot.

Sure. Well, it's exactly. All doors are swinging open and close. The various times Will called me today.

He was watching soccer and I was like, oh, champions Champions League soccer. But he hung on. He calls it football like a douche bag football.

It's football. And I was like, I got off the phone with you.

I was like, you know, I don't watch. That is because it's like, oh, there's two minutes left in the game and it's one to one.

I can't wait to see who breaks like with baseball. Will, if I may, you have to get engrossed in the game of it. That's right. To the sport of it. There is a strategy. There is. Oh, Scheuermann in the pacing of it. All right.

They call it that. They call it soccer or what you call soccer. I call football. They call it the beautiful game. So you watch there's a you watch the way that the team that's in the shape that they get to our guest today, our guest today.

Dare you cut me off, Sean.

So for monkeys that are high on sugar like you, that need to see a lot of scoring. Yes, that's right. You you might you might like the some something with a shot clock in it. Like basketball or clock. Like football. Football. Yeah. I really enjoy watching football. You want to see a thousand points scored every game scores.

Gorgeous, gorgeous, gorgeous, gorgeous, gorgeous kanun. Yeah.

I'm sorry. It's not as exciting as golf. All right.

So listen, our guest today has excelled in literally every facet of the entertainment business.

He's a superstar, actor, producer, writer, director. He starred as an actor and some of my favorite TV shows.

And he's directed all of my favorite movies as a human being. This guy, he's so much more than his credits. So let me just say his name so we can freak out. And then I want to get into all his brilliance. It's the amazing. You guys know him.

You worked with him, Ron Howard. What? Ron, did you keep this a secret? Oh, I'm so excited. I'm here.

I look at you. Hey, man. Hello. Great to see you guys. Good night. Good night. And by the way, I like your shot clock and baseball. Yes, ok.

OK, where where do you fall on soccer or football?

I, I have come to really appreciate soccer, football and mostly because I worked in Europe so much, I want to actually go into games. They're so good. Right. And in England, you know, you're what you, they go nuts and you sort of get caught up.

Did you learn how to sing any of those songs in the stands like, fuck you, all right, you've got the first course down. Those are the most gregarious I've ever seen you.

So look at I want to know, by the way, the movies. Right. I know we all kind of know each other.

I don't know you as well as well. And Jason do, but they don't really know me. Nobody knows Ron. Nobody nobody knows him. Nobody knows. That's what this episode is about.

But like I grew up like literally when I say you directed all of my favorite movies, you've directed all of my favorite movies, Night Shift. I can quote all the Cocoon, Backdraft, Apollo 13, A Beautiful Mind Solo, A Star Wars story. Here we go.

One of my favorite like movies of the series. And by the way, let me just get this out of the way.

Is it going to be a sequel to solo or not duo? I love that movie. I love that movie.

Yeah. I think I don't think there's going to be a sequel. I think the gangster universe could wind up being considered for Disney. Plus, I mean, I think it's a great world, a great characters, but nothing imminent, nothing it that I'm aware of.

But Ron, you should be ninety seven years old. Yeah. All of the movies that you've directed, I mean, it's, it takes about a year to do a movie all in if you're really going right. 96, by the way, how do you get it all done and still have this incredible family that you have and how do you do it?

Well, I mean, things I start I started when I was four.

So what I mean, but but the directing part, I mean, you can cram in a bunch of acting stuff. You can work in three, four or five, six movies a year. But to direct one, you got to just do the one.

Well, that pretty much takes over. I mean, in recent years, I've started also doing documentaries kind of at the same time I'm doing this scripted work.

Pavarotti, I saw Pavarotti. It was amazing to think of that documentary.

And I'm finding them really fascinating. And that is a totally different rhythm. And in fact, I love kind of shifting from the editing room. Or going over a set of questions based on that subject and then jumping back into the scripted but also imagine entertainment has just made it so possible for me to move a number of projects along working with great executives, working, of course, with Brian Grazer to just get stuff done.

Imagine entertainment is the name of your production company and you make two dozen movies out. Yes, yes. And which Mitch Hurwitz loved to skewer on.

And excuse me, Shawn will at various points in this interview, he will stop and he'll start explaining the obvious because he feels that it's incumbent upon him to explain to our audience members specifically that was his sister or niece or daughter in law in Wisconsin or in Wisconsin, Minnesota somewhere.

I don't want anybody from the heartland to be confused. I don't want that, Ron. I like you.

Consider the audience.

Yes, but while we're on, imagine we'll tell everybody to Jason that.

Immagine. And why you know.

Well well, it will. And I know Ron because he was nice enough to put us on Arrested Development and basically give us both careers crew. But I took the opportunity to talk and wine and dine Ron as much as possible to to to pick his brain about how he has done what he has done with his career. Because it is it is a North Star that I try to stay pointed towards as much as possible. I'm just in awe of your ability to not only stay prolific, but relevant.

I mean, a lot of people stay busy, but they don't always stay relevant. And your ability to diversify from an actor to a director to a producer. And I just there's not really a question in here. It's just for the audience. Just know this is this man, is it to me? Yeah. So pardon me if I get a little goofy during today's interview. No, no.

The question in there might be, you know, when you when did you know you wanted to be a director? And did you did any part of that did you choose that path because you saw the shelf life of some actors and wanted to get out ahead of it?

Or and also like do you think now of this like a three pronged question, but did you now, having done all that and being such an example of being the gold standard, and is it worth it when you have to have all these meals with Jason Bateman and he asks you how to do it?

Does it almost make it like, fuck, I wish I'd just done nothing so I didn't have to listen to his bullshit questions about how he cravenly asked you how you do it. That's the secret.

You know, it's always the yin and yang thing. You you take the bad with the good.

Now, the look for first of all, you guys, Howard Morris, you know how Howard Morris was from Sid Caesar shows and your show of shows and one of those brilliant guys who, along with Carl Reiner and Sid, kind of defined sketch comedy. Sure.

Well, he was a brilliant guy, hilariously funny. He played Ernest Bass on the show. Who is that hillbilly who would come to town and wreak havoc and of course, had nothing to do with who the real Howard Morris was. But he created this character. But he also then started directing and almost all of the directors on The Andy Griffith Show had been actors. Some of them directed like a whole season's worth. Some of them would just come and go a little like Howard Morris or Richard Crenna, you know, people like that.

And Andy always like that. And when I was about eight or nine, I was a massive movie star.

Already I've been in a couple of movies, but he was directing and we did we did this scene where I was supposed to be in a car jammed in with everybody. And he kept saying, well, we're on move over. And I was like jammed up against the door knob and it was in my ribs and I was kind of saying, it's in my ribs. And he said, good, when you're in pain, you know, you're on your mark.

But when it was all over, he said, you know, you are so curious and interested in all of this stuff, I'll bet you wind up being a director. I'll just bet you do. Wow. And I used to watch my dad, who never directed film, but he directed theater. And, you know, so I was at a certain point, I was so intrigued by everything that went on around the show, the writers I was allowed to be in those read through and those and those story discussions afterwards, you know, not in fact.

Now I'm going on for just a sec.

That's your job on this. OK, OK, good.

In the beginning, I mean, the actors would be allowed to hang around for a half hour after a read through and offer up notes and then Andy would stay with and Don Knotts would stay with the writers and deepen the discussion. But every once in a while, in that first year when I was six, I actually did try to make a suggestion and they never took them.

I was a little irked by this just a little bit, but I didn't let on.

And then I remember in the second. Episode of the second season, I just turned seven and we were rehearsing, and my job is to kind of run into the courthouse, swing the door open. Otis the drunk, was over there with Barney. And and of course, everybody's just in the regular clothes or just rehearsing the script.

And my job is to come and say, hey, pour something. I don't know what that something was, but I would say something. And then I sort of hesitated. And the director who had been an actor, Bob Sweeney, said, What is it? And I said, Well, I don't think a kid would say the line that way. And he said, well, how do you think a kid would say it? And I pitched whatever my rewrite was and he said, Great, say it that way, let's go.

And I was just stunned.

I was a part of it. And across from across the the courthouse and he said, what are you grinning at, Youngin?

And he actually did talk that way. And and I said, well, that's the first idea of mine you've taken.

And you said he said, well, it was the first one that was any damn good.

Now, that's one thing that I was able to be a part of the show and be a part of this process, which included the camera operators and all of it. And at a certain point, I realized that the director was the one who kind of got the hang with everybody. Right. Kind of got to play with everybody. And I just became intrigued.

So literally by the time that show did end when I was 14 years old, I had a falling in love with movies and began to understand the difference between an episode of The Andy Griffith Show or Leave It to Beaver and The Graduate. And and I understood this was a lot about the filmmaking. And I began to know that I really wanted to chase that.

Did you ever end up directing any happy days? I didn't. I was offered chances to direct Happy Days at certain points because they knew I wanted to direct. In fact, I was in film school when the show started and I had to I left USC film school and I thought it would just be like a one year gig because how many series really run? But it kept going. Jerry Paris was such a genius. And in all honesty, I never wanted to rob the rest of the cast of a week with Jerry for me.

And then the other thing was I was wise enough to know that if I did a good job on a three camera episode of Happy Days, a show that I was in, it wasn't going to be a giant feather in my cap for my real dream, which was to direct a direct signal camera and answer your other question one more time.

So the thing was, once I did start directing and I did realize I truly loved it and I could do it. And I once I had left Happy Days and I was beginning to have success with nightshift and then splash, I became a little bit anxious about it, like, what would I choose next? Should I slow down, what should I do? And it just struck me that I love the work. I like all kinds of movies. I didn't want to be typecast as a director in the way that I sort of justifiably was as an actor.

But I then said, you know, when we do an episode of season twenty four episodes, it was then we know they're not all going to be great. The idea is to make as many of them as great as they can be and to have as few of them that actually misfire and stage play for the average, play for the average.

Yeah.

And I literally convinced myself that I wanted this to be my career and my way of life. So it wasn't so much about bespoke jams.

Sure, it was about a lifetime of creativity and you didn't have to be precious in that way.

Probably relieved. A lot of pressure. Right. Let me you know, I wonder if, you know, you grew up, you know, you're talking about being six or seven on The Andy Griffith Show. And then you were on Happy Days. And, you know, you grew up on television and in movies. And I wonder if there is that idea. Do you think not being precious was kind of a result of being of understanding? You grew up in a very adult world from a young age.

And so you understood.

I mean, that's a very kind of mature thought to have. Sometimes people don't have that thought. The idea of like I don't need to be so precious doesn't come till you're 50 or 60 where you kind of go.

All the stuff that I thought was so important when I was twenty five is kind of ridiculous. And I've been holding on just this weird notion.

Do you think that that was the benefit of having grown up in an adult world, adult world and television and television people who come through television and don't develop really bad habits? And I'm so grateful. My dad was like a world class coach and teacher and and the spirit around that show was not a sitcom rhythm. Exactly. And tone. Also, The Andy Griffith Show in particular. I did learn more about bigger, harder comedy with Happy Days, especially when it went in front of a live audience.

And I really learned about that. But people who go through that television pays the rigors of that.

You guys know this, I say and I see it in your work and and I see it when you're either in front of or behind the camera. It's a confidence that your taste, your instincts, that you can trust your gut and your batting average will be higher than most. Right. And if you need help, you'll look around and get it because you don't have a lot of times. Wasted. Let's get to the bottom of this and solve it, and you begin to trust that rhythm and of course, that's what I grew up with.

So when I'm shooting, I like to shoot at a pretty good pace. I like I like to have an energy because I trust that more than I trust slowing everything down and becoming mired in a process of trying to find some elusive solution.

Do you think that if your dad was, I don't know, a doctor, you'd be a doctor, or do you think you would always have had this passion that somehow this passion would have found you?

That is amazing. If my dad was a doctor, I would be a doctor. If he'd stayed on the farm, I probably would have been on the farm. Wow. He left the farm to chase this dream. My mom left this little town in Duncan, Oklahoma. But because I don't have a performer's personality. Exactly. I don't think I would have thought that out. I think once I was a part of it, I began to see this whole experience as something that suited me.

I think I might have thought leadership. So I think I would have I often thought I would have either been like a you would have ran the hospital?

Well, not if my dad wasn't smart enough to be a doctor.

And probably I'm not either. So I don't think he would have made it through med school.

But but I might have been an English teacher or a history teacher and basketball coach or something like that. Wow. Hey, guys, can we just for one second, I'd like can we alternate to a different topic just for one minute? Oh, I love this. We're going to talk about alternate universes. No, we're actually going to talk alternators it's a car part, a very important one. And you can get it at AutoZone. AutoZone?

Oh, is that like one of those fantasy car parts? Like instead of taking you back in time, it takes you to an alternate dimension.

No, it's sure not. It's a real thing. The alternator converts mechanical energy into electrical energy that powers the electrical system in your car and recharges the battery. Exactly. Kind of like an alternate juror. No, not like that at all.

It's called an alternator because it produces alternating current look, cold weather. Put your battery at risk. And when your battery isn't performing well, your alternator can also suffer.

OK, now I'm remembering alternate form of the derivative. That's calculous note.

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The smartest way to h i r e back to the show.

Something that could be seen as sort of or heard is inside baseball or getting into the weeds about directing. I think it would qualify as OK because you could apply it to a lot of other things, which is people contributing, as you were saying, with ideas, and that sometimes that can create more of a disruption than a benefit if that idea is simply just different as opposed to better. How do you manage that on the set? And then hopefully that that answer won't bore those who are not in this business and they can apply that answer to things in life?

I think I think it does apply really basically boils down to this.

When people begin to trust that I'm actually happy to say yes to their idea, they're also then comfortable with no, because they do want a leader, you know, whether it's the CEO of a company or a store manager or the director of the show or movie.

The other thing is because there is a kind of chaos that can set in when you open up your channels to so many voices. There are times when you just have to say no, OK, no, just just we're just going to do this now. Let's just do that. And people have to be willing to accept it. But I find that they do. The other thing is I have what I call a six of one rule, which is if a person's note a significant person, the person who has to execute it, say a cinematographer, say an actor is a composer if they have an idea and it's different, but it achieves the objective.

My job is to keep track of the objectives, write what the story needs and my instinct over the years or my my observation has been, if you let the artist who you're guiding apply that choice that they intuitively understand well enough to make the suggestion that there's an X factor in that. And as long as it doesn't derail, go with that now, as long as it doesn't derail. And that's the judgment call that the director has to make and sometimes try it.

And then it's not just patronising. That's let's let's see what that does and it's worth it. It's worth a take to see what it does to the scene. And sometimes that doesn't work.

Know. Do you find that exhilarating? Sometimes when somebody suggests something that you're like, well, that's not necessarily the way I look at it, but yeah, let's try it that way. And it comes up in a in a way that you wouldn't have imagined.

You find that every time. The magic of that.

Yeah, that's my favorite thing. Well, I mean I mean, everybody likes to be right. So I enjoy that too.

But what if it adds three hours of coverage, though?

Well, this depends on your day.

The budget, if you have the budget to say we're going over team, you know, run Jason's whole thing when he's directing is whatever decision he's he always says, whatever gets me back on the ten quicker, you know what I mean?

Whatever Pearlington, whatever it is, Jason's actors adore him, as, of course, I hear actors talk, actors talk, even though the directors, you know, it's just it's always that.

It's always that judgment call. Sometimes we just don't have time or we're going to we're going to lose it. But again, if people know what the objectives are, also the other big thing, the fun thing is when people are pulling in the same direction. Yeah, they you know, it starts to be a unified journey and they feel everyone feels like they've got some ownership over the process.

And they're not just being told to do stuff as soldiers.

I mean, what you were asking for examples. I mean, so many times, I'll tell you, one is kind of interesting. No, no, no.

Tell us of super boring. OK, well, maybe it's boring, you guys.

When Tom Hanks was doing Splash, he's buddies and that's what I knew. I mean. A well trained and all that, but and he came in and he was sort of supposed to be the straight man of this movie, that's kind of the romantic comedy side of the movie. Eugene Levy and John Candy were where the comedy and Tom I was really cautious about him maintaining his credibility at all times. And he's funny and he was trying to invent. But I felt like he was sort of trying to keep up with Eugene and John when I really needed him to just be rock solid.

And, you know, as I told him, the main thing is you just got to love the girl. But I would let him try things and little bits and so forth. And when I got to the editing, I underestimated this guy. I love these things. So on the day, I might have felt like I was just kind of letting him have a tape. But I remember saying if I ever get to work with Tom again, I'm going to I'm really I'm going to invite a lot more of this.

And how many films have you end up doing with him? A half a dozen, maybe five, four, five. Devar?

Well, it's funny. It brings up maturity, which is we were shooting Arrested Development.

I think it was maybe season two and we'd shot this scene where Tony Hill's character was coming back from prison.

Right. Was he coming back from prison or he's coming back from war. If we get arrested, fans are going to be like, how dare you not remember?

But but there was this scene and there was this banner that said, welcome home. And we were shooting the scene. And I said I was holding on to Jason. Like, Jason comes in and I go look at Banner Michael, like as if Jobe had lost all sort of sense of like syntax and grammar and everything. And I just took all the words out of it and said, look at Banner. And I was giddy and acting like an idiot.

Right. And I was doing it to make Jason laugh in the scene. Right. So a couple of days later, we're shooting across the street over at a rancho in the park there.

And I get a call. Chuck Martin got the phone. He's the onset producer. And he goes, It's Mitch calling for you. I said, Oh, shit, OK, Mitsuko's I'm in editing right now.

And every take you're doing this stupid fucking thing, which he never got mad at me about it because you're doing this stupid thing and he goes every single take.

There's not one where you're not doing this thing where you're going crazy about, look at dinner. And I go. And I was like, man, I'm so sorry.

And then on the way home, I was driving back out to Venice that we wrapped and I called Mitch. I go, Man, I've been thinking about this all day. I'm so fucking sorry. He's like, Now it's OK to really pick me up.

He puts the show together, he edits it and he calls me and he goes, I was so wrong. I'm so sorry.

But he was doing it was so good. I was so wrong. And I was like and I spent like it was about two months of feeling really shitty about my choice.

And one of the iconic lines for me is and but God bless me.

And she called me to say like he was literally I was wrong. And that was that thing, like he hadn't seen it.

It's just reminded me of that, like he hadn't seen it in context and, you know. Right. And yeah, I always I always joke.

I want to wear back to Tom Hanks, wear a bracelet that says, what would Tom Hanks do? And and because I think we all kind of seek our mentors or the people we want to emulate and we kind of use their path as a guide for our own. And I always thought when Tom was such a huge star, it still is and started Platonists production company was like, how did he do that?

And then, you know, it's kind of like and you are actually truthfully an inspiration for me to like how just imagine entertainment became this thing, this massive, you know, one of the first ones, if not the first.

Yeah, but we were talent driven, company talent driven.

You know, Rob Reiner had a company roughly the same. That's true. The same time Castle Rock and you know, and there were others. I always. Danny DeVito. Penny Marshall.

Yes, that's right. I had a small company even while I was still with Happy Days, and I was producing and directing TV movies in the off season. So I was always sort of interested in that aspect of it. And it was a way to a way to have control and to really learn about it. But Brian and I, so we clicked on night shift and then splash and we really are you know, we're very different in terms of like where our area of focus is.

Our personalities, of course, are really, really different. And but we just had this this shared ambition and we thought that it was pretty simple. By pooling our efforts, it was more of an alliance almost than anything else you'd ever have somebody with as much ambition as you who's also got your back, you know, and somehow one plus one would be for more than two and we could collect project. So there was a lot less scrambling around driving around town and a lot more focused problem solving.

And it's it's just the company has changed so much. I mean, in the last couple of years, we are now it's a different kind of business model because we're not attached to a studio or a single network. And it allows us to sort of nurture ideas and the best home for it.

Whether you're launching a bunch of talent to write, it's all anthropic.

Yeah, through impact writers content acceleration program. And when I say content, it's movies and television that we're we're doing. But we have a branded group. We have a documentary group, we have a kids and family group in addition to movies and television, and it's just we're taking on more and more collaborators, really. Brian and I still have our sleeves rolled up and are still doing the stuff that we love. But it's we're creating a kind of support system for, you know, for others to get things done.

It's my first real memory of imagined just to bring it back to like my own experience was coming out to California to do the final test audition for Arrested Development.

And I remember I had a really bad cold and I tested at Fox and they said that I want you to do the pilot. And I remember we went over to imagine that next day to do a table read to your old office there at the corner. And I remember I was one of the first people to arrive and I went into this conference room at your office and I kind of looked out over the last few days had been such a whirlwind. And I lived in New York when I found myself.

I'm like, what am I doing? I'm here in the immagine office of Ron Howard and Brian Grazer. And I'm looking and I'm in the middle of L.A. and I'm about to do this thing. And I could feel my life changing in that moment.

I swear to God, I knew it was different. I knew there was something different about that script, about that cast, about all of it.

And that was a huge moment in my life. It was changed everything for me. Yeah, I remember getting I remember getting the the scripts for for Arrested Development and the cover page said, you know, any actors that that are that need to be basically pampered, I'm paraphrasing here need not apply because this is going to be done in sort of a mockumentary style. There's not really going to be a lot of marks on the floor or lights or dressing rooms or it's kind of going to be running gun.

And then I read it and it was and it was it was so sort of, you know, punk rock. And it's in its in its comedy approach and it's mockumentary style. And the fact that it was an imagined project and that you run were going to be the narrator and and basically stamping this thing was so ominous to me. I had at that moment I had so much sort of multicamera, you know, sitcom baggage on me. And someone was one of my X agents actually was saying you should reach for this.

And I said, it's such a cool project. I mean, with with Ron Howard and the brand of the comedy, they're never going to want me to risk staining how sort of, you know, post kind of comedy this is and how cool it is. And fortunately, I auditioned for Mitch Hurwitz on something years and years earlier that he he liked what I had done. And so he said yes to to to having me read for it. But your stamp on that show and your continued stamp on it as as being the voice of it all the way through, was such a validator for I think the audience is certainly in this town, which benefited all of us greatly.

While, you know, it wasn't as huge a hit as some of the some of the bigger sort of comedies, the people in this town watched it. And that really, really helped us when the show was over in in our ability to get, you know, rehired. So I just can't thank you enough.

It was a great experience. I'm sorry, Ron. I know you had a heart out two hours ago. Sorry about.

All right. Well, and I are talking to Dad. This is Big Brother. Yeah, totally.

I got to say, it was when when Arrested Development clicked. And by the way, I remember looking at your audition in my office and Mitch said, you know, I think I know.

I think maybe Jason Bateman take take a look.

And I and I look and I just started beaming because inside I was going kid actors, rock n roll.

I never knew that. So I was excited about that.

But also from that very first pilot, the cast just clicked. And you clicked with Mitch, his voice. And the whole idea was supposed to be much more improv, which you guys did some of. And you always sort of had a green light, but mostly you were sticking to the script. You couldn't better his writing and it was just going and, you know, you might not remember, but initially the pilot didn't have any voiceover. Oh, really?

And we did it.

And Mitch said, you know how you always thought about voiceover and you always pitched that maybe we should try it. And I said, OK. And I was literally shooting I was shooting a Western in Santa Fe. So Mitch sent me this stuff with a cut. And I at lunchtime, I got in the sound guy's truck and just laid down the lines and sent it back. So Mitch called me like about a week later and he says, well, I've got either good news and good news or good news and bad news.

I don't know what it is. What do you want? I said, well, I want the the good good. And that leads off in both instances. And he said, OK, the show tested really well. It went just great. And I said, OK, so what's the bad or good? You said the narrator was the highest testing thing.

The highest testing element in the pilot, you have to do it, and so it must have been a big pain in the ass for you to have to fit it in all the time.

With all the work you were doing.

It was like it was a pain in the ass and a blast.

What was the craziest place? Can you remember?

Because you had to do voiceover for the show in a shack where they had to, like, put sound blankets up and the wind was howling.

What country was that in? Where it. Let's see. What country was that in? Well, I guess it was it was actually in Canada. It was in Canada and is outside.

It's in the middle of the night. And Louisa, my assistant, say they need this, they need the tax.

And I'm reading this, that in the end, you know.

Oh, I think that we heard the wind on that last one. Ron, try it again.

And but here's the thing. From the moment the show aired, even though it wasn't ratings, it was quality and it was original and it was breakthrough. And I thought, wow, I've actually been involved in three great shows. Now, how many people can say that?

And it was a great show in that like the last cycle of the Netflix versions of of Arrested Development, I've suddenly started showing up, playing myself.

This is embarrassing for Sean, by the way, because he's he's famously never seen Arrested Development. Two of his best friends are on the show, and he's so cute. I was waiting for him to hang himself. And are you so, so sorry, Ron, continue to tell Sean about your role in Arifa development.

Jason, tell them when we were reading copy the other week, what I did, what I could.

He said, I think. Did you say Gob, by the way? It's in the commercial. Oh, good. That's all it is. It's on it's on the air. One of our commercials he mispronounces my character goes, he'll just remain like, gub. And Jason goes, Ah, do you mean Joe?

I think he's like, no, what is this God thing? And then the boys get it in the commercial. It's so good.

They say it holds up. Sean, I think you've got to check it out. No, I know it does.

But anyway, so so now I've got to do these three days of playing myself, which again, doesn't quite count as acting, but they're all written, there's written dialogue and there's sort of a cadence and a rhythm. And some things are supposed to be set ups or or jokes. And I realize and all my scenes, fortunately, are all with Jason. Yeah.

And because I'm starting and it's in action and I'm doing it and I could see Jason look at me and say, oh, my God, he's fucked up.

No, not like when I looked at Brian when I got there, I was like, all right.

But I because I couldn't I could kind of remember the lines, but not really. But I had no there were no gears. I couldn't find the clutch, let alone the gear shift. And you faked it.

Well, then well, but I sort of soldiers do that first. And, you know, by day three, I felt like, OK, I kind of it's a little like riding a bike.

Where's my chair. Yeah. Oh, I wouldn't mind.

I'd like to ask, do you remember sort of your process, pardon the term as an actor, enough to feel like you are as good as you want to or need to be as a director when you direct actors and basically talking their language, remembering enough of your process as an actor, a huge asset from major asset.

In fact, I've had to really school myself on all the other sort of tools in the directors kit because I've learned to be a better visual if I've learned to understand the rhythm of scenes and how sound and music can really affect it and so forth. Because I'm on my go to was always, always the actors into this day. I feel like the one thing you can really count on is a well executed, well acted moment. It'll always propel your story forward.

So that means a lot. Rob Reiner told me I directed him in Ed TV, came back and he said, Oh, you should try acting again. I found that I was I was what I was then. I'm much better now, having directed so many great people. And when I was acting, I was such a dutiful soldier and I kind of narrow as to the way in which I would try to deliver. And I think if I really was trying to act again and really focused on it, I think I would draw upon experiences with Hanks and Russell Crowe, Cate Blanchett and Amy Adams and Glenn Close and people like that who I've had because I've seen them take things to another level without changing the script, without riffing, anything.

They just find these nuances and things that I don't think I ever had, even the awareness that I should be necessarily looking for that when I was young.

I remember sitting behind you in the screening of Sorry, the Cate Blanchett movie is called The Missing. Yeah, The Missing.

I was sitting right behind you in that screening.

That was such a long, long. Long time ago on the Paramount lot, and I was like, oh, my God, I'm sitting right behind Ron Howard, this is crazy. And he just directed the movie we're about to watch. And then it was over. You turn around and you said, what did you think? I go, is it locked?

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Visit Neum Dotcom smart list to start your trial today. That's A.M. Dotcom smart lis. You mentioned Amy Adams and Glenn Close, I've seen hillbilly allergy. Thank you for letting me see that. It's such a great movie. Do you care a ton about whether your film is in a theater versus streaming differently? Said if you do care negatively about it, is that a bigger negative than the positive that having streaming gives us all in that there's more content, more films, more opportunities for employment and more opportunities to see stuff?

Where do you stand on all that?

I come down on the side of of the latter. Ultimately, if it really is a binary decision, I really hope and I don't believe that the large screen shared experience is going to entirely vanish. I think it's going to change. I think it has changed and it will continue to. But I do think that's a unique experience. And maybe it becomes kind of like the hardcover publishing release for, you know, for a novel. Right. But I'll always value that and cherish that.

But in my entire career, more people have seen the movies I've made on TV than ever in the movies, even when they were massive hit.

So but does it affect your creative process, the way in which you you might frame a close up? If you're thinking about a smaller device, you might have a tighter close up or in your light levels, in contrast, because of ambient light and in a room versus a theater.

Not anymore. No, I mean, when I was doing TV movies, you had to because it was really a different format. But now if you're doing TV, you could do it two to one and it looks very much like one in five in terms of format and screen ratio.

The I don't and I'll tell you why, because when I first began doing TV movies and I was hearing a lot about a certain kind of coverage and certain kind of composition in those days, if you wanted to watch a classic movie, you had to find it in the TV guide and then either put on the timer or wake up and watch it. Right. And I hadn't seen Grapes of Wrath in a long, long time.

John Ford Classic. And I really wanted to see it again. And it happened to be coming on during night shooting. We were doing some nights on Happy Days. And so I ran to my trailer. I had a little black and white TV. I mean, literally like probably two inches maybe. And I put on Grapes of Wrath and I watched a few minutes of it and I'd seen it on big screen a few times. And I said, those guys are crazy.

Even on two inches. John Ford's composition works well. Yeah. And so go with that. And that's pretty much pretty much where I've adhered to. And today, of course, you know, home screens are big. Well, home screens are big and photography's quicker. Lighting's faster. You know, Ozark looks like a movie.

It all translates. Although I remember we were working on our show, flaked on Netflix and with Wally Pfister and while he was directing, but he was setting up this shot as we were setting up the look for the show because he was taking forever to set up the show.

And I said, The Great Wall, if this is a great cinematographer, one of the great cinematographers of this generation, and he was sending the shot and I said, well, I hate to break it to you, man, but people are going to be watching the show like this on the subway, on their phone like this. And he's and his shoulders slumped and he hung his head and he was like, yeah, you're right. All right, let's go.

The one thing the one thing that a TV schedule just doesn't necessarily afford you, although I'm an Ozark fan, so I don't mean to keep coming back to it, but I watched every episode and I love them and I love them because we direct are particularly from the beginning. I remember talking to you about some kind of boat shot or something that pressed in on you guys. It was a fantastic job, very much a movie shot. But those are few and far between.

That's what you really do give up when you're directing television is that ability to control the day so that you can do a lengthy, tricky set up and get it in exactly the right light and the kinds of things that, you know, on film you're sometimes able to.

But in TV you have to keep moving because you have you've got to feed the beast, as it were, a little bit. Yeah.

It's just a budget difference, which is one of the things that, you know, talking about streamers and movies and the future of movies and so forth. One of the things that's Dreamer's is sort of bringing back is the better budget for character driven movies. Yeah, they'll allow a character driven piece to actually also be cinematic. Yeah.

Do you have ever that kind of envy when you watch these shows now on this dreamer's where they're able to tell a story not in two hours or 90 minutes that they can tell a story over eight episodes or 10 episodes and really get in there and tell the story of this character and really take their time. Is there part of you that goes like shit?

There's a I'd love to tell a story this way. I mean, we and that's what we're doing it. Imagine now imagine that.

Sorry. I'm so sorry. John, go fuck yourself. I'm sorry.

I directed the first episode of Genius. We did an excellent job with Geoffrey Rush playing Albert Einstein. Oh, yeah, I saw it great. And and that was me kind of tasting how great it was to just do a pure character, let it unfold over eight or 10 hours.

Could you see yourself doing eight or 10 episodes? Yeah. Yeah, I could. Under the right circumstances, I really, really could. Great. Let me get your home number real quick. Please call. Yeah.

So, Ron, I just want to say thank you so much for being with us.

Thank you for being here. And, you know, every time I've met you, you are like the most cheeriest, wonderful, kind, sweet, generous vibe about you. That is just amazing. No wonder everybody wants to work with you. One of these days. You're going to have to tell me who you've lost your temper on, because I'd like to see that.

But but we can get that next time they're all dead. Yeah. But thank you for being here. I have a billion other questions, so hopefully we can do it again. Thanks.

And the podcast is great. And, you know, and now I'm addicted. I listen to him to kind of understand what you guys were doing.

I mean, all the way back, it's just three dorks. Thank you so much for class and this up and talking with us for a bit. And hopefully I'll talk to you soon, pal.

Great to see you guys. Great to see you again. Bye bye. Bye. Bye. Bye bye. Wow, Sean, you know, I want to say, first of all, a great guest and I feel I feel bad because I feel like, you know, Jason and I just took over. We just wanted to.

Are you kidding me? It was his guest. We didn't know you didn't ask anything. I loved that. I love that. I was going to say this to when Ron was on.

I remember early on when you started, you started really looking to run.

You were talking about what he and Brian had done and imagine, and I think even more today than ever really see that there are a lot of similarities between you guys. I could see why he would be the gold.

He's the gold standard in general for what he's done creatively and what he's but also that you could look at him in a sort of an almost a mentor role for for lack of a better term, because he's a guy who you had very similar paths in in that you've been both working as actors from a very young age.

And he's somebody who took that and kept changing and adapting and directing, which is what you want to do. You're the in fact, I was going to say I didn't want to shame. Ron, you're you're Jason is the youngest ever member of the Directors Guild. I didn't know that.

I wonder if it still stands. Don't know. It's pretty awesome. But I could see it.

And really, I understand that connection that you have with Ron now more than ever. And I saw it and it makes sense.

I always felt that even before he came on, I always felt Jason Bateman was a Ron Howard.

Yes. Yeah. And I've always said and Sean, you're a Buddy Hackett in order to thank you. Don Knotts or Don Knotts.

Oh, my God. I try.

Sean, you never. Well, I hope you never watch Arrested Development. Don't really do you don't deserve it now.

I would I would be really curious, though, if you did if I don't think you like it is anything near what you think as I hate seeing stuff so late, like I've seen clips and laughed.

I've seen clips. I've seen clips. Don't say I've seen clips. This this is what I want to hear from you. I want to hear. I've seen.

I'm going to fucking watch this goddamn thing if it's the last thing I do know, you know, not if there's not a flying saucer. And as Scotty watched it, has Scotty ever seen it?

Oh, plus, look, the point is, you know, the point is you could spend like we are.

We're really great friends. We could spend all the time in the world together. But by.

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