Happy Scribe

Hey there, what time of the night to call this a quarter to four?


Oh, trying to gloat and say it's only 10 45 here, but I have to say up for the rest of the night. Well, what do you think, Jackie Foxfire?


I need to talk to a real person about this before I go to bed, because I don't think I'll be able to sleep otherwise. What?


It was on chaos. It was insane. I never seen a debate like this before. It kicked off. I think, what, three minutes they started on topic on the Supreme Court and before we knew it, it's to center to health care. Interruption after interruption after interruption by Donald Trump theme of the night. He never stopped interrupting. He never stopped.


It was like a circus. Right. I don't even know what the messages were, even on the part of the moderator. Yes. That is a nightmare job to try and rein somebody in like that.


But it was incredibly weak, incredibly by criticism of Chris Wallace, the moderator would be he did come in at one point and say, Mr. President, your campaign agreed to two minutes of uninterrupted speech. Then you can get in with your rebuttals. But he didn't say that until about 40, 50 minutes into the thing. When we had all this time with interruptions and rebuttals, it was all over the place. You mentioned a circus and that was at one stage Joe Biden said this clown referring to Donald Trump.


He then kind of regretted and said, sorry, Mr. President, but, you know, it kind of didn't matter at that stage because it had descended into chaos. It got very personal at times. Donald Trump attacking Joe Biden's family. At one stage, he started talking about my son Beau, that one of the three that was told to watch.


Actually, I thought that was the toughest thing to watch throughout the whole debate when he was talking about Beau being in Iraq and Donald Trump suddenly just switched it on Hunter Biden.


And he said, I yeah, I don't know. I don't know Beau, but I know Hunter. And he got kicked out of the military for taking drugs. I thought Joe Biden handled that well, though, you saying? Well, yes, my son had a drug addiction problem. A lot of families have those problems out there. He has overcome it every now and again. We saw Joe Biden kind of turning around saying, look where you can attack my family.


But actually, I'm more concerned about the families out there. And he'd point to the camera. I felt, Jackie, there was plenty of these moments where Joe Biden sort of turned it around, sort of pointed to the camera, sort of said it's about these guys out here and they that moment. But the moment was lost. Yes, there was another interruption and another one and another one and another one and really a difficult watch. And and as we said at the start, chaos circus.


I mean, plenty of one line zingers, as we call them. But where did we learn anything?


I think it was more about character than policy than anything else. But we have. What time is it quarters for?


We've exactly 12 hours to digest all of this before we record the podcast. So plenty of thinking to do. I don't even know where to start.


To be honest, when we go to digest this, we need lots of Rennie's, lots of indigestion.


It was, oh my God, I'm so glad I was able to decompress or I wouldn't have been able to sleep it all going through my head. Yeah, I'll talk to you in like twelve hours, Brian. Sleep well. Sleep chattier.


Twelve hours, Jackie. Looking forward to it.


From Aute EMU's, this is States of Mind, I am your president of Law and Order, you won't be safe in Joe Biden's America.


All groups should have been built monitoring and people. This administration has shown it will tear our democracy down history, be able to say at the end of this chapter of American doctors began here tonight.


Ladies and gentlemen, the best is yet to come, your U.S. Election 2020 podcast with Brian O'Donovan in Washington and Jackie Fox in Dublin today.


I'm not going to answer the question because said that because the question is, would you and who is you are a senator. The worst president America has ever had.


Let me just tell you, I've done more in in forty seven months. I've done more than you've done in 47 years. What do you want to call and. Give me a name. Give me the process. And would you like me to conduct this and. Right. Proud of my face.


Stand back and stand by. Well, it started off like any other debate. Good evening from the health education campus of Case Western Reserve University and the Cleveland Clinic. I'm Chris Wallace of FOX News. And I welcome you to the first of the 20 20 presidential debates with even some pleasantries.


No noise, except right now as we welcome the Republican nominee, President Trump, and the Democratic nominee for Vice President Biden.


But it soon unraveled after that. You have an idea what the question is? The question is yes. Is the question left? Will you shoot and who is on your list?


Those 12 hours, Brian, have flown by? We have a lot to unpack in this episode. I've got the concealer on Under the eyes, a mug of coffee and some hindsight. Ready to go if you are, because I know you've got a busy day today as well. Brian, I, too, am wearing lots of concealer.


No nuts, but I probably do need to. Yeah. Crazy day to day. We have a visitor. Jackie, if this was back at home, we have the good room ready and the fancy China open for the first time and the good towels out for the first time since coronavirus locked down. We have an Irish politician visiting Washington. Simon Coveney is here for the week. We haven't had anybody come since the day he shook. Then he shook Leo Varadkar back in March, which was just before the coronavirus lockdown's.


So he is having lots of meetings in the White House, in the State Department and on Capitol Hill. So I will have to dash off in a moment and run up to Capitol Hill to interview Simon Coveney. I'll ask him what he thought of the debate. I know he'll give me a foggy politician answer, but I will we will comment on other people's politics. But maybe I'll get a nice little comment off the record about what he really thought and what a debate it was.


Jackie Fox.


Yes, you're definitely going to need the concealer by the time you get home tonight. It was a circus. It was a mess or a CNN Portus.


This was the most chaotic presidential debate I've ever seen. And I suspect most of you, if not all of you, have ever seen.


That was a hot mess inside a dumpster fire, inside a train wreck.


You seem high minded language. I'm just going to say it like it is. That was a shit show.


Fox News had a different take.


All right. Welcome to Hannity. The very first presidential debate is now officially in the books and the extremely weak, the frail, the confused, kind of angry Joe Biden just got steamrolled by President Trump. Joe flat out refused to answer simple, basic, fundamental questions, unable to respond to the president's beat downs. And he appeared flustered, irritated and, well, cranky. Joe, maybe it's past his bedtime. Probably stayed up too late. Needs his nap.




Interesting to watch the different networks last night. We say this time and time again you'll have CNN and MSNBC saying what a disaster for Donald Trump. You're a FOX News saying what a disaster for Joe Biden. Some polling were done by the networks immediately after it. Most of those polls came back in Joe Biden's favor. But was there any winner at all? Jacki, the idea of these is to win over that undecided swing voter in the middle. Sure.


Half the time they couldn't even hear what was being said, full of interruptions, full of insults and very few points made.


Before we go to our panel today, aren't we very fancy with a panel on states of mind? Let's go through some of the key themes of this debate and try and put a shape on the hot mess that was last night. I think we can break it down into three components. Interruptions, insults and ideology. Love, a bit of alliteration.


The ayes have it. The ayes have it like that.


At first stop interruptions, probably the most dominant and obvious fourth of the night. Donald Trump's strategy from the get go was non-stop interruption.


I'm not going to answer the question because that because the question is the question is yes. Is rational left? Will you shoot? And who is?


The fact is that everything he's saying so far is simply a lie. I'm not here to call out his lies. Everybody knows he's a liar.


But you I just want to I want to make sure you did last night. Last night. First thing I want to make sure.


President, can you let him finish, sir? He doesn't know how to do that. Yes.


And as you said, these interruptions came thick and fast from the very start. I counted because about two minutes in the opening topic was the Supreme Court move within about two minutes, maybe even less. Ninety seconds, that thing had descended into this row, this interruption. Chris Wallace, the debate moderator, struggled at times to bring the thing under control. About 30, 40 minutes into the debate, Jackie, he finally said to Donald Trump, look, you agreed to the rules of this debate and the rules of the debate.


Are you get two minutes uninterrupted each, then you can go to town on each other and you can start having the back and forth and the row, but let the two minutes go interrupted. I felt when Chris Wallace did that 30, 40 minutes into the thing, it kind of, you know, can Donald Trump down a bit, had some impact? Perhaps he could have come in earlier, but yet the interruptions were an absolute disaster. It's very hard for anybody to hear anything or for anybody to finish a point.


Yeah, it's like Donald Trump. He was trying to constantly pull the rug out from Joe Biden under his feet. And Joe Biden, he did grow tired of that constant barrage of attacks.


Yeah, I felt we saw an evolution of annoyance with Joe Biden last night. At the start, he sort of laughed. He sighed. He rolled his eyes. And it's interesting, I was reminded of our debate preview podcast here. We spoke about was it Al Gore side a lot back in 2000 when he was up against George Bush and a damaged home? I think the sighing. And the eye rolling maybe would have been forgiven more this time around because Donald Trump was so aggressive in his approach and so was interrupting, but then it evolved from size.


Errol's smiles and laughs to just frustration. You could see that Joe Biden was desperately trying to break through Donald Trump's strategy by triggering his own as well. He was trying to appeal to people at home, looking down the lens, trying to talk to them, using that empathy. But he kept being interrupted and it didn't pack the punch that he usually would when he uses those techniques that was shattered by Donald Trump almost immediately. Then the insults started and why people might see Donald Trump as the chief instigator.


Joe Biden probably threw the most insults throughout the course of the debate. And I think he might have made a fatal mistake, too, because he insulted the office of the president, something that you don't really do in the United States.


You were a senator and you're the worst president in America has ever had. Let me just say, Joe, I've done more in in 47 months. I've done more than you've done in 47 years. Joe, my son did nothing wrong. And first I think he did. Mr. President. Well, it's hard to get any word in with this clown. Yeah.


As we said earlier, it was like the evolution for Joe Biden started with the rules and the size and then descended into just utter frustration and utter insults hurling. He called him a clown. He said you were a liar. You told him to shut up. No, the insults are coming from both sides as well. Donald Trump said to Joe Biden that you're not very smart and that you graduated bottom of your class. And then yet the insults got very personal, Jackie.


And it got very much about the candidate's children, particularly Joe Biden's son, Hunter. Donald Trump went on the attack against Hunter Biden. He accused him of being corrupt and receiving money from China and from Russia, allegations that have been disproven and never stood up. And Joe Biden fought back saying that's not true. He also went after Hunter Biden, who had a drug problem. But I felt Joe Biden was able to take some of those family insults, turn them around.


Point to the camera, look down the lens of the camera and say, stop talking about my family, stop talking about your family, let's talk about the families out there that are suffering. And he spoke about drug addiction and he said, yes, my son Hunter had a problem with drugs, but he came over the problem and I am proud of him. And it's a problem that many American families out there have.


So I think Joe Biden was good at taking the insults in some ways, turning them around, making it personal.


But as you alluded to earlier, it didn't have the impact. It didn't pack the punch, because no sooner was Joe Biden making a good point or getting personal or getting emotional or trying to connect.


And Donald Trump was in again with another rebuttal and another interruption where you talk about them being losers and being and just being suckers. My son was in Iraq.


He spent a year there. He got he got the Bronze Star. You got the conspicuous service medal.


He was not a loser. He was a patriot. And the people left behind, there were heroes. And I resent talking like that. Are you talking to my son, Beau Biden, you're talking about? I don't know, Beau. I know drone hunter got thrown out of the military. He was thrown out, dishonorably discharged. That's not true to cocaine use. And he didn't have a job until you became vice president.


I think people are used to Donald Trump being the interrupter, but attacking someone's family addiction within that family, but also dismissing a war veteran who was a popular attorney general in Delaware. I think that this is the moment that is going to have a bigger impact than we think. Not only is there an opioid crisis in the U.S., millions of families have someone who struggle with addiction problems. But the US is also incredibly proud of its military service. What happened here, I think, is really insulting to a lot of people, and I don't think it will be taken, as you know, I don't think it'll be taken lightly with those undecided voters.


Those are two both critical topics, which I think Donald Trump may have overstepped the mark a little bit here and gone too far.


He was already on in trouble with the military vote after a very damaging article in the Atlantic magazine last month, which said that he referred to members of the U.S. military who had died in service as suckers and losers. No, he came out and he denied that. He said it was all fake news. It wasn't true. But Joe Biden took that allegation, took that reporting and said, you called them suckers, you called them losers. What about my son, Beau?


He was a decorated military veteran. Beau passed away from cancer in 2015.


The opportunity, I think, there for Donald Trump would have been to come in to say, hang on a minute. I never called anybody suckers and losers. It was all fake news. But he didn't you know, he sort of let the suckers and losers line sit and then embarked on. Let's talk about your other son. And we've spoken about Hunter Biden before in this podcast. There's problems there. He has been accused of corruption. He's been accused of receiving money from Russia, from China.


And as we mentioned, there is a drug problem in the past there as well. But again, I come back to Joe Biden. I talk to I thought took those insults, spun them around, try to, you know, bring it back to. Yes, it's addiction. It's a problem for a lot of American families out there. Yes. A lot of American families out there are suffering. Donald Trump, quick with the retorts, quick with the insult.


The other thing I felt, Jackie, as well, and I'm sure this struck you looking back over previous debates, when there is the zinger, the one liner, the clanger, what gives it the boost and the lift is the whoop and the cheer from the audience and the applause.


None of that was there. None of that. None of that. There was an audience, but it was a very small number of people, only a couple of dozen people. And they were family members, invited guests, supporters from both sides. They applauded politely as the two candidates got on the stage. And then the moderator said, and that's it. No, no more applause. No more hoops, no more hollering. But I thought they'd ignore that.


And we'd still see here some whoops, hollering and applause. But we didn't break the rules anyways.


Absolutely. So Donald Trump is doing it. Tough rule breaking, I guess, for everybody would have dropped it. But the audience didn't. They were very well behaved. And that silence meant that sometimes there were good zingers and there were good clangers. And Joe Biden had a good one. At one point, if you'll recall, he spoke about you wrote the book, The Art of the Deal. But China has perfected the art of the steal. And it was all about Donald Trump's trade relationship with China.


And in a normal debate, that would have gotten a laugh and an applause, but nothing. So a lot of the lines were thrown out there that were pretty strong.


But then they fell flat and moved on so quickly because there was another interruption and another shout from Donald Trump.


I wonder, was that a reflection of the actual content that was happening during the debate?


More than anything, we'll move on to ideologies. We didn't really learn much about the issues about policy. What's Donald Trump's alternative plan to health care? Who knows? What's Joe Biden's plan to improve the economy? Beats me. Debates are supposed to be a chance for voters, all voters, to understand more about what the candidates are like, what are their priorities. But. All we really got a glimpse into was their character, their leadership qualities, rather than what they want to lead.


Yeah, lots of the same lines being trotted out on coronavirus. Donald Trump talking about how he brought in the travel ban from China early while Joe Biden was against that, talking about his record on the coronavirus. And Joe Biden would have done a far worse job if he was the man in charge. Joe Biden then quickly coming around saying, look, more than 200000 people have died on your watch and look at the families out there that are struggling and suffering by the economy that has been decimated.


Racial unrest, similar lines. Again, Donald Trump saying Joe Biden, you were part of the radical left. If you win the presidency, there will be more lawlessness and more chaos on the streets. And it was on the race issue, Jackie, that we got one of the big headlines and the big talking points from last night's debate.


Yeah, after all the insults and interruptions, there was a moment for Donald Trump when it actually seemed like he was pushed into a corner and there was no coming out of it. There was this was a turning point in the debate. That was when there was a discussion about the proud boys for context. The Proud Boys is a far right and neofascist organization that admits only men, men as members and promotes and engages in political violence. It has bases.


It's based in the United States, but it has a presence in Australia, Canada and the United Kingdom. Yeah, that's right.


Jackie and the Proud Boys, this right wing group, white supremacists. Donald Trump has an issue here.


You'll recall those Charlottesville riots back in 2017 when we saw white supremacists coming out protesting and then we saw someone killed during a counter protest. Donald Trump was asked, do you condemn these white supremacists? And he says, oh, that was good people on both sides, which, of course, caused outrage. So last night, the debate moderator, Chris Wallace, I suppose, if you will, gave Donald Trump another chance and said, will you now condemn white supremacists?


But are you willing tonight to condemn white supremacists and militia groups and to say that they need to stand down and not add to the violence? And a number of these studies, as we saw in Kenosha and as we've seen in Portland, are you prepared to do it?


Go ahead. I would say almost everything I see is from the left wing, not from the right. So what are you what are you saying? I'm willing to do anything I want to see. And do what, sir? Do it say you want to call them. What do you want to call them?


Give me a name. Give me a white supremacists like me and different voices and right to my face. Stand back and stand by.


But I'll tell you what. I'll tell you what. Somebody's got to do something about Antifa and the left.


That's the one gathering all the headlines. And we'll just have to wait and see if it does Donald Trump. Any damage will damage him among his core support base. No, we've discussed in the past nothing damages Donald Trump doing amid his core support base. The problem is that's only 35, 40 percent, not enough to get him re-elected. The idea of the debate is that you draw in the undecided voter in the middle. Will anybody have been drawn into either side?


I don't know if they will, as I said at the top, was able to hear anything. Were they able to get anything out of the debate? And of course, the big question, I suppose, is, are we going to see more debates? There are meant to be two more. Yeah.


What is maybe because they're not a legal requirement. You know, when you're running for president, you don't have to do it. I think both teams will be reassessing the situation for the next two debates.


Yeah. In the immediate aftermath last night, the Biden campaign came out and said, oh, yeah, we're going to be doing the other two. I suppose there was talk initially that this could be Biden's out. He could say that was ridiculous. He broke all the rules. I'm not doing any more problem. But that is Donald Trump will use that ad nauseum for the next month, saying he's too scared to debate me, he's too scared to debate me.


He's become backsliding into his basement. So it would've been very damaging for Joe Biden if he were to do that. As we speak, we're saying the debates are on by the time this podcast goes to air. And if you want, an announcement would have been made. So apologies, listeners, if we're wrong. But as of now, the remaining debates exactly are still on. So we're going to have a vice presidential debate next week. And then two more presidential debates before Election Day.


OK, let's go and we will bring in our two guests now. And the first might be a familiar voice to Irish listeners.


Can everyone here? Hi there. Yeah, hi. I can hear Jennifer. Yes, Grace, we're just going to kick off since we have everybody here, if that's all right. Is everybody ready to go? Go. Yeah, fantastic. So we're joined now by Catherine Zappone, former minister for children in Ireland Bush. Catherine, you've been in Seattle this year campaigning for Joe Biden. And we're also joined by Jennifer Carnahan. She is the chair for the Republican Party of Minnesota.


Thank you so much, both of you, for joining us on State of Mind. Jennifer, I suppose it's the same question for you both. What did you think of your candidate's performance during the debate last night? Jennifer, to you first and then we can go to you, Catherine.


Oh, absolutely. Thank you. Last night's debate was a great presentation for the American people to see the very stark contrast between President Donald Trump and Joe Biden. The president dominated that debate and showed with impressive communication of what he has done for Americans and America and how he has accomplished more in forty seven months than Joe Biden has done in forty seven years in government. It seemed to be that Joe Biden was hiding from the tough questions, trying to redirect with attacks against the president.


I think he got a little snippy at times and putting the president down, which just wasn't necessary. But the president talked about the strength of bringing the economy back. You know, we saw that our economy was artificially halted by the global pandemic in more than 10 million jobs have been added back since then. The president talked about putting American workers first with his trade deals, talked about standing strong against China, talked about keeping his promise on nominating conservative judges, and also talked about his immediate response to coronavirus.


So all in all, we thought the president did a phenomenal job. And we also feel that America could see why Joe Biden is not fit to lead our country. I think that the in fact, many of those messages were lost. I'm going to first talk about Joe. I think he was nimble. He did not get bogged down in the mud conspiracy theories of Trump, who took a shortcut through the lies and the fake news. And I think he managed to deliver some key messages about the America that we all want to see.


You know, Trump came in with no grand plan, no detailed plans of any of the six themes he came in to distract, to bring his chaotic behavior to the stage where the American people could see it for themselves and to block Biden's strong image and character and empathy and his forensically research plans to build America back better. So, you know, why would you vote for chaos? But Biden, in spite of all that destructive and negative energy, whether it was eight, six, 10 feet away from him, he delivered some key messages, I think, of what is portrayed, who he was, a man of character, empathy and a leader.


And he nailed Trump on his complete failure in relation to the pandemic, the global pandemic, and he and how it's impacting Americans. And many, many times he spoke directly to the American people. And that's what the American people want to hear.


Jennifer, I have to pick you up on the line there. You said that Donald Trump showed his communication skills. Would you not say he was aggressive? He was interrupting. And the real loser here was the undecided American voter, because nobody could make a point and nobody got their point across. And I don't think anybody learned anything new.


I don't know that I agree with that fully. The president certainly has a strong personality and he communicates in a way to be able to articulate his points. You know, when you look at that debate last night, first of all, I thought the moderator was a bit disappointing.


I thought Joe Biden was disappointing and how he took kind of some cheap shots at the president several times for the debate. And you could tell he was just holding it together at all. But, you know, unleashed what he probably really wanted to say. You know, the the media and our country and the left have been against this president from day one before he even took the oath of office. They've never given President Trump a chance. Anything that he has done that's been good for America, all they do is continue to criticize him.


And that's not American. A lot of people don't know my background and story, and you certainly wouldn't know it by my name or over over the radio. But I was adopted from South Korea as a baby. On the day I was born. I was found abandoned on a back door step of a hospital next to a garbage dumpster. I was fortunate enough that five months later, my parents adopted me and I became a Minnesotan and an American. And the reason that I am very strongly Republican and always will be and stand so strongly with this president is because of the belief in the American dream and encouraging and creating opportunities for people that no matter what they want to aspire to in their lives, they can achieve in this country.


And that's why so many people want to come to America, because they want to live that dream. And all we saw out of Joe Biden last night was messages about how he's going to completely kill the American dream, kill our opportunities and the foundation of our country as we know it. And that's discouraging. So there's two more debates to go. I'm sure we'll hear a lot more from both of these campaigns over the next three or four days. The sands of time are moving through the hourglass swiftly, and we are confident on our side that the country will deliver another four years to this president.


Katherine, what would you say to that? Yes, hello. Well, what I would say is I think by clearly laid out his plan in order to respond systematically to the covid crisis with the investment and E and the sanitation to allow a safe reopening of America. He noted that his economic plan was supported by Wall Street firms who predicted that it will create seven million more jobs in four years. And he stood on the science of climate change. He laid out how his investment in his climate plan would create jobs, boost productivity.


And you know, Brian and Jackie, I'd say, you know, you have to think that viewers would you have to think that viewers would be swayed by the inhumanity we saw from the president. You he did would not condemn a white supremacist. Instead, he refers to, you know, a instead he refused to refers to a group that are right wing violent actors. And he said they say nice things about me. And when asked again by the moderator, Wallace, he referred to, he referred.


He said, you know, OK, boys, maybe you should stand back and stand by, stand back and stand by in case I need you. And, you know, there was just a huge lack of empathy, of course, and disrespect for the grief suffered by the Biden family.


We just want to bring back in Jennifer here, because, Jennifer, what did you make of the president, you know, refusing to condemn white supremacy? Were you surprised by that when that all played out on stage?


Well, hold on here. The president has condemned white supremacy. And do you think as an Asian-American that I would stand so strongly with the president that stood behind white supremacy as someone who has experienced racism my entire life and I still do today, as a 43 year old, I would never support someone that stands for that. So, again, it's the left continuing to try to create this narrative, a perception that Republicans are all racist, sexist, bigoted people spearheaded by our president.


And it's just not true.


But there are a lot of things I'm so sorry to interrupt for. But what about the proud boys? You know, that comment is like, you know, stand by. There was a lot of alarm raised about that, you know, turn of phrase, you know, the proud boys. It's a far right neo fascist organization that only admits men, men and promotes and engages in political violence.


You know, the the group in this country that's promoting and engaging in political violence and violence is antifa with constantly burning down our cities, harassing and abusing innocent people, beating them, burning buildings down while the Democrats just continue to stand by and watch. And they think that it's OK, that that's not the kind of country that I have any interest in living in. That's not what America is. We know what's going on in Seattle. We know what's going on in Portland, started in my hometown in Minneapolis.


That's where the real violence is. And if people are not able to see through that and see where the discord is coming from and the chaos and the constant tearing apart at the fabric of America and trying to divide us as groups based on what we look look like and trying to make us feel like we're less than others. That is not coming from the right or this president that is coming squarely and solely from the left. Katharine's upon.


I need to leave this podcast in a moment and I'll tell you why. Your former cabinet colleague, Simon Coveney, minister of foreign affairs, is here in Washington today. And after all of you to interview him. But before I leave, I just want to put one more to you, Catherine, if that's OK. You're Joe Biden.


A lot of people in the polling, a lot of the media saying he was the winner last night and there wasn't any big gaffe, there wasn't any big mistake. That wasn't any big mess up, I think, on his behalf. But I also don't think it was the strongest debate in the world from Joe Biden. He was rambling at times. He didn't land. Any killer blows. He didn't land any zingers. Do you think he could have done better last night in terms of performance?


I think he did land some really good, strong one liners, Brian. And, you know, one of the things that I brought a checklist just to the to the debate to see, OK, can Joe do this? And one of them was, is that what he ignored the efforts of Trump to get under his skin? And by and large, he did. And I think especially at the end of their discussion on the first being, Biden looks at him and he said.


This is so unpresidential. That was a really productive segment. Keep yapping, man. And you know what Trump says? He says that was sarcastic. So, in fact, Biden gets under Trump's skin rather than Trump gets under Biden's skin. So I do think he probably got the messages out. He got some good one liners. But, yes, it was difficult to do within that chaotic environment. I think Brian is gone.


Are you still there, Bryner?


You I've got to say, my colleagues had guys, we must talk to you again in a few weeks time. Jackie's going to take over. Thank you for coming on the podcast. And if there is another debate, we would love to have you on again. Thank you, guys. OK, go on, Brian.


Thank you. Bye bye. Bye bye. Brian. My favorite, the busy life of a correspondent in D.C. He's always, always on call. But you know, actually just what Brian said there for for both of you. Do you think your candidate should get back in the ring? Because this has been described as a hot mess of a debate. Jennifer, go to you first.


Yeah, I believe there are two more debates that are currently scheduled for October. And I think it is important for the American people to be able to hear from both the president and Joe Biden in a format where there are questions talking about all of the issues that Americans think about and care about and that impact their lives. So I do think that that visibility is important to be able to allow people to see and hear for themselves.


And, Catherine, the only caveat I would add is that when they do it again, they need to follow the rules. The campaign teams agree on the various rules. They need to follow the rules. And if that happens and that they allow each other to speak, et cetera, I think it would be a great contribution for the American people to really be able to hear more clearly what are the messages, what are the plans moving forward and how we're going to bring the people of America back together.


And Jennifer, you have a big day there today in Minnesota. Do you want to tell us what's going on?


We do. We are going to be welcoming President Trump back to our state for the seventh time since he took the oath of office. So that is this evening. And then tomorrow we have Eric Trump that's going to be traveling across our state.


So we're very excited about that as well, because Minnesota, correct me if I'm wrong, voted Democrat in 2016. What do you think Trump has to do to flip the state red this time around?


So Minnesota actually has not voted for a Republican candidate for president since nineteen seventy two. So it's been a very long time. I think we were the only state in the country that didn't vote for Ronald Reagan when he was president. But it's very interesting because in 2016, the president, everybody, you know, all the polls that looked at Minnesota, no one ever would have considered Minnesota in play or a targeted state for for the president at all. Every poll, I think the view that they did specific to this state had him down by high double digits.


And on Election Day, he came within one and a half points or forty four thousand votes, and he won seventy eight of our eighty seven counties. So since that time, over the last four years, we've continued to see shifts and trends in the red direction all across our state, a part of our state called the Iron Range, which was a heavy, heavy DFL stronghold for decades and generations we know have had, I think, six or seven mayors of those cities on the Iron Range come out and endorse the president.


We've had the president visiting up there and he's going to Duluth tonight, which is also very close to that area. So we've seen the president's strength grow throughout our state. And we are very, very optimistic and confident that on November 3rd we are going to make history and flip our electoral votes for the first time in many decades for the president.


Well, listen, Jennifer Carnahan, chair of the Republican Party of Minnesota, and Katherine Zappone, thank you both so much for joining us on State of Mind. We really appreciate it. Thanks.


Thank you. Thanks, guys. Bye. Thank you. Hi.