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You know exactly where you were when the Golden State killer was arrested. Your moderator on the Zodiac Killer separate. You're in search of a new challenge and or solve the hit podcast that puts you at the center of the investigation. I was like no other murder mystery podcast. You'll piece together evidence to track down killers hiding in plain sight. Your cases are waiting for you. New episodes of song are available now on the I Heart radio app, a podcast or wherever you get your podcasts.

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Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class A production of I Heart Radio. Hello and welcome to the podcast, I'm Tracy Wilson. And I'm Holly Fahri. Today we have the first episode in something that is not exactly a two parter. It is more like two interconnected episodes. And they're so intertwined that when I was researching and writing them, I had both outlines open the whole time. Sometimes I also had to browser windows on two sets of PDF file of research.

The episodes are on Helen Tausig and Vivien Thomas, who worked with surgeon Alfred Blaylock to develop a surgical treatment for children who have cyanotic heart conditions, also called Blue Baby Syndrome. This surgery was performed for the first time in 1944. We have gotten just a steady trickle of requests for an episode on Vivien Thomas over the years, some of them as recently as the last week. But every time I started to look into it, I became equally interested in Helen Tausig.

She was the one who suggested that Blaylock try to find a surgical approach to congenital heart conditions like tetralogy a fellow.

And then Thomas was the one who actually worked out how to do this procedure. Basically, Tousling had a dream, and Thomasin Blaylock made that dream into a reality. Taskings contribution was publicly acknowledged at the time that it happened, but she did not receive nearly the amount of recognition that Blaylock did. And then as for Thomas, his contributions were not publicly recognised that all until much, much later. So today we are going to talk about Helen Tausig, including how she helped found the specialty of paediatric cardiology.

And then in the next episode, we'll talk about Vivien Thomas and how he developed this surgery that Helen Tausig had the idea for.

Helen Brook Tausig was born May 24th, 1898, in Cambridge, Massachusetts. She was the youngest child of Frank and Edith Gild. Tausig Frank was a Harvard professor and an economist who would later serve as chair of the Federal Tariff Commission and as a member of the Advisory Committee on Peace in the Paris Peace Conference at the end of World War One. Edith had been one of the first students at Radcliffe College, where she had studied biology and zoology.

Helen contracted an illness that affected her hearing when she was a child. Sources are a little contradictory about whether it was pertussis or the flu or some other infection. She and her mother also both contracted tuberculosis, and Edith died of it when Helen was only 11. Helen had been really close to her mother, who had shared her love of botany and nature with her children. But then, after Edith's death, Helen became a lot closer to her father. This wasn't only because Helen had just lost her mom.

It was also because she had dyslexia. At the time, very little was known about dyslexia or how to treat it, or how to make reading and writing more accessible to people with it. And while Helen really enjoyed learning, reading in particular was very hard for her, this was compounded by the way she was treated at school. Teachers would have students read aloud in front of the class until they made a mistake. And for Helen, the combination of dyslexia and her anxiety about making mistakes in front of the class meant that errors were both frequent and particularly embarrassing.

Helen's father tutored her extensively, and while she did go on to publish more than 100 articles during her career, reading was never something that came particularly easy to her.

Helen graduated from Cambridge School for Girls in 1917, and from there she followed in her mother's footsteps and spent two years at Radcliffe College, where she was on the basketball and tennis teams. She did well at Radcliffe, but she also found being there a little bit frustrating. Radcliffe had been established as a women's college for Harvard, and her father was a renowned Harvard professor. So as long as she was at Radcliffe, she was always Frank TWISTEX daughter. She wondered whether the successes that she was having there were based on her own merits or were based on her connection to him.

After taking a trip to California, Helen decided that the University of California at Berkeley might be a better fit for her, and she transferred there. She graduated in 1921. By this point, she wanted to study medicine and her father suggested that she study public health, which was, in his opinion, a good field for women. Harvard was opening a new school of public health, having previously run a public health program in conjunction with. However, Harvard was not conferring degrees to women, something that also just came up in our episode on Cecillia Payen Copaken When Tausig met with Milton J.

Rosarno, who was dean of Harvard School of Public Health, she asked him who would be foolish enough to spend four years at a program that would not actually confer a degree at the end. His answer was No. One, I hope. And then she said, I'll not be the first to disappoint you. Good afternoon. A lot of accounts describe her as kind of shy, but she could also be salty when she needed to. And Tousling still wanted to study medicine, though, so she got permission to take a histology course at Harvard, but she wasn't allowed to interact with the other students and she had to do all of her lab work alone.

Her professor, Dr. John Lewis Brehmer, advised her to study at Boston University Medical School. That school had been established in 1873 when Boston University merged with New England Female Medical College, becoming the first coeducational medical school in the United States. It was at rEU that Tausig started studying the heart. Her anatomy professor, Dr. Alexander Begg, was also the dean of the medical school, and he suggested that she studied bovine hearts. This led to her first published paper, which was co-authored with Faith Elmas Irv.

It was titled Rhythmic Contractions and Isolated Muscle Strips of Mammalian Ventricle. And in this paper they demonstrated that strips of cardiac muscle from mammals beat intrinsically. And that was something that had already been established and reptile hearts, but not in mammals. Tausig really excelled in her work at Boston University to the point that Begg thought she might be welcomed at Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore, Maryland. A large part of the funding for the Johns Hopkins Medical School had come from the Women's Fund committee organized by Mary Elizabeth Garrett and other major donors.

The establishment of the medical school was only possible thanks to their contributions, which were made under the condition that women be allowed to enroll and given the same opportunities as men.

Kind of love this pay for this medical school, but only if women can go here. When Tousling applied to Johns Hopkins, her letters of reference included one from Harvard professor, Dr. Walter Cannon, which read in part, quote, If women were admitted to Harvard, I would enthusiastically vote for her admission. Ultimately, she was admitted at Johns Hopkins. And when she started there in 1923, her class included 60 men and 10 women. Helen Tausig earned her M.D. from Johns Hopkins in 1927, and she hoped to continue on there with an internship in internal medicine.

But there was only one space available for a woman, and that went to Dr. Vivian Tapan, whose GPA was two tenths of a point higher than tão. Six thousand had been working at the Johns Hopkins Heart Clinic, and Dr. Edwards Perkins offered her the chance to spend her next year there. After that year was up, she started a residency in pediatrics under Dr. Edwards Park, who was newly arrived on the Johns Hopkins faculty. At this point, Dr.

Taussig, medical education included an M.D. and additional work in cardiac care and pediatrics, and all of that came together in 1930. We're going to talk about that more after a sponsor break. You know exactly where you were when the Golden State killer was arrested. You still pay for cable to get Lifetime. Your moderator on the Zodiac Killer separated. You're basically a seasoned detective and you're in search of a new challenge and or solve the hit podcast that puts you at the center of the investigation each week unsolved.

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Now, that is true. When Dr. Edwards Park started working at Johns Hopkins, he thought that the children with acute medical needs, we're getting pretty good medical care there, but he didn't think that was as much the case when it came to their long term follow ups or when it came to ongoing treatment for children who had chronic issues. So to try to correct this problem, he established four specialty clinics for children at Johns Hopkins. There was a pulmonary clinic which focused largely on tuberculosis, an endocrine clinic, a psychiatric clinic and a cardiac clinic.

Each of those employed social workers who could follow up with patients and their families at home.

These clinics were headquartered at the Harriet Lane home, then known as the Harriet Lane Home for Invalid Children. Harriet Lane Johnston, the niece of President James Buchanan, who also served as his first lady, had left Johns Hopkins 400000 dollars in her will in memory of her two sons who had died of rheumatic fever in childhood. The Harriet Lane home opened in 1912, although it wasn't the first children's hospital in the U.S. that was the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia, which was established in 1855.

It was the first one to be connected to a medical school. Although the Harriet Lane home closed in 1972, the Harriet Lane clinic still operates at Johns Hopkins. In 1930, Park appointed Dr. Helen Tausig as head of the Children's Heart Clinic at the Harriet Lane home.

She was only 32 years old at the time, and at first she tried to turn this offer down because she did not think she had enough experience for it. In the end, though, she accepted and she continued in this role until her retirement in 1963, as Tausig had been finishing her medical training and starting in this new role. She had also been losing more of her hearing. She used a hearing aid which she carried on a strap around her neck, and she had an amplifying stethoscope that had been designed specifically for her.

She also learned to read lips and to palpate patients heart rhythms using her hands and fingers. Over time, she learned how to distinguish heart murmurs based on how they felt, including murmurs that weren't audibly distinguishable from one another when hearing through a stethoscope. I think this is the coolest thing ever since she couldn't judge the volume of her own voice when teaching. Tausig also had a friend sit in the back of the lecture hall to signal her if she needed to be louder or quieter.

So when she started at this clinic, a big part of the children's cardiac clinic's work at Johns Hopkins involves treating children whose hearts had been damaged by rheumatic fever. Rheumatic fever is a condition that can develop after a person has had strep throat or scarlet fever, both of which are caused by group a streptococcus. Rheumatic fever can cause heart murmurs and enlarged heart and fluid accumulation around the heart. And it was a lot more common before the development of antibiotics that could kill streptococcus bacteria, which happened later on in the 1930s.

But Parke wanted Tausig to focus her work at the clinic beyond just rheumatic fever patients. He also wanted her to study congenital heart diseases. Congenital conditions are ones that develop before birth, and congenital heart conditions are the most common type of congenital disorder. At the time, though, there hadn't been much research into congenital conditions at all, and especially congenital heart conditions. They weren't really treatable and in many cases they were fatal. It seemed as though there was really nothing to be done to help the patients.

So in the minds of a lot of researchers, there really wasn't any point in studying them.

Having gotten this direction for Parks specifically to study them, Tousling started gathering as much information as she could about her patients hearts. The cardiac clinic was outfitted with fluoroscopy and X-ray machines, as well as electrocardiogram units. So teslik was imaging patients hearts and measuring their electrical activity. Since these conditions were sadly so often fatal, she would also perform autopsies. So the information that she gathered while patients were alive came together with the physical study of their heart after they had died.

Over time, based on all of this study, Tausig was able to develop diagnostic criteria for living patients as this was happening. Dr. Modde. Abbott was also doing similar work at the McGill Medical Museum in Montreal. Abbott published her Atlas of Congenital Cardiac Disease in 1936, which became an inspiration for Tausig work. One of the conditions that task saw over and over again was called Tetralogy of Fellow that was named for Etienne Louis Arthur fellow who first described it in 1888.

In a correctly working heart, deoxygenated blood from the body enters the right atrium. The right atrium pumps it into the right ventricle. The right ventricle pumps that blood through the pulmonary valve and. Into the pulmonary artery, which goes to the lungs and the lungs, the blood picks up, oxygen leaves behind carbon dioxide, and then the oxygenated blood makes its way back into the heart through the left atrium. The left atrium pumps the blood down into the left ventricle and then the left ventricle pumps the oxygenated blood out into the rest of the body through the aorta.

Tetralogy of Flow is a four part condition that affects the circulation in multiple ways. One, the valve between the heart and the pulmonary artery is too narrow, so there's less room for the deoxygenated blood to move to the lungs, too, because the right ventricle has to work a lot harder to pump blood through that narrow space.

It's enlarged. Three.

There is a hole between the two ventricles, so deoxygenated blood from the right ventricle and oxygenated blood from the left ventricle mixes together when it absolutely should not. For rather than being attached to the left ventricle where it's supposed to be, the aorta is shifted over. So it receives blood from both sides of the heart with oxygenated and oxygenated blood mixed together.

All this together means that the heart is having to work a lot harder and that the blood going out to the extremities doesn't carry as much oxygen as it should. That's a condition called an toxemia. Children with this condition often have bluish skin and mucous membranes, can't tolerate even mild exercise, and generally just don't really thrive. Before this surgical treatment was developed, about a quarter of the babies born with this condition died before their first birthday. Almost three quarters died before they were 10, and only about five percent lived past the age of 40.

And because their tissues are being deprived of so much oxygen, a lot of those who did survive past infancy couldn't walk or stand on their own, and everyday tasks just required more oxygen than their bodies were getting.

One of the things that Tausig discovered during her research was that some of her patients fared pretty well in their first days of life, but then suddenly got worse. She realized this shift came from the closure of their ductus artery osis. For reference, in the womb, a fetus gets oxygen through the umbilical cord rather than by breathing. The ductus arterial system is a vessel that lets circulating blood bypass the lungs, which at that point are filled with fluid. After a person is born and starts breathing on their own, the ductus artery osis typically closes.

And until it does, because of all the physiological changes going on after birth, some of the baby's blood uses it basically as a shortcut, allowing extra blood to travel to the lungs.

Sometimes the ductus artery is this doesn't close as it should, causing a condition called patent ductus arteriosclerosis. And in a baby with an otherwise healthy, functioning heart, this can cause a problem. That vessel allows too much blood into the lungs. That puts more pressure on the heart and it increases blood pressure within the pulmonary arteries.

But Taussig found that in some babies with congenital heart conditions, Paten ductus artery is actually helped, that excess blood in the lungs was able to absorb a little more oxygen to distribute to the rest of the body. This was particularly true for children with tetralogy of phyllo and other cyanotic conditions. This realization about the ductus artery osis also connected to another conclusion that Tausig drew. During this work, she realized that much of the time congenital heart conditions weren't fatal because the person's heart failed.

It was because their bodies just were not getting enough oxygen. In 1939, Dr. Robert Gross developed a surgical technique to close a patent ductus artery, insists he did this work at Boston Children's Hospital in conjunction with a pediatrician named John Hubbard. They weren't actually the first ones to do this procedure, though. That was Emil Carl Phrae, who did it in Germany the year before. They were the first ones to publish their work, though this gave Tausig an idea that if it was possible to close a patent ductus artery osis that was harming a patient, it might also be possible to build one in a patient who needed it.

This wouldn't cure the heart condition that was causing the patient cyanosis, but it could provide some relief of symptoms, both prolonging the patient's life and improving their quality of life.

After hearing about Dr. Gross's surgery, Tauzin contacted him to find out whether he would be interested in trying to develop such a procedure. There isn't any correspondence that has survived from this exchange, though it's not 100 percent clear exactly when it happened. But Grasso responded that he closed this ductus. He did not build new ones. Then in 1941, Alfred Blalock became surgeon in chief of Johns Hopkins and he brought his surgical technician, Vivian Thomas, with him. In 1942, Tausig observed from the gallery as Blaylock closed a patent ductus artery osis afterward in her account, Tausig approached Blaylock and said, quote, I stand in awe and admiration of your surgical skill.

But the really great day will come when you build a ductus for a child who is dying of Noxzema and not when you tie off a ductus for a child who has a little too much blood going to his lungs.

And Blaylock responded, When the day comes, this will seem like child's play. So we are going to talk about how Blaylock and Thomas developed the surgical procedure in our upcoming episode on Vivint. Thomas, you will get back to Tausig story after sponsors break. Here is a surgical technician, Vivien Thomas, describe Dr. Helen House's involvement in the surgery that he developed.

Quote, Helen passionately described her patients and their plight and that no known medical treatment existed. She went on to suggest that their only hope was the type of surgical approach to get more blood to the lungs as a plumber changes the pipes around. Dr. Alfred Blaylock first performed that surgery to change the pipes around on November 9th of 1944. And as we noted before the break, we will get into the specifics of the surgery and how it was developed and the episode on Vivien Thomas.

As soon as it was clear that this surgery could allow children with cyanotic heart conditions to live a longer, healthier life. Families rushed to Johns Hopkins for help. The earliest patients were all referred to Dr Blaylock by Dr. Tausig. And for a time she was always in the operating room when the surgery was performed. As time went on, she would join the team in the operating room for the surgeries that seemed most complicated or most likely to lead to complications.

Both Blaylock and Tausig were part of the patient's ongoing follow up care.

Their success also sparked a huge amount of interest in cardiovascular surgery in general, with all kinds of rapid developments following from there.

Before this point, cardiac surgery is a field had barely existed. Yeah, the idea of operating on the heart at all was like, really, tabou? Toscan Blaylock traveled around the United States and Europe to teach other doctors and surgeons about this procedure, which was soon being called the electronic operation, Tausig wrote of this as a moral obligation, that it was the duty of academic physicians to share knowledge any time they discovered it. She also published the book Congenital Malformations of the Heart in 1947.

And that was the first really comprehensive textbook about congenital heart disease. Also in the late 1940s, Dr. Richard J.

Bing established a cardiac catheterization lab at Johns Hopkins. Cardiac catheterization involves threading a long, hollow tube through the blood vessels and into the heart to perform diagnostic or treatment procedures. Tausig Byng and Blaylock used this lab to study Tetralogy of Fellow, as well as other congenital heart conditions. Publishing work on at least 20 different types because of her involvement in the development of what is now called the Blaylock Thomas Tousle Shunt. Tausig was soon in demand as a teacher of other doctors in the newly established specialty of pediatric cardiology.

Her pediatric cardiology fellows, nicknamed themselves the Knights of Tausig and Dr. Tousling started arranging gatherings for them every couple of years that her vacation home on Cape Cod. These gatherings were part reunion, part continuing education seminar. So in addition to her contributions to a surgery that saved the lives of thousands of babies and children during her career, Tausig also trained more than 130 other pediatric cardiologists.

In 1947, Tausig was awarded the Chevalier de la Legend on is France's highest distinction. In 1954, she, Alfred Blaylock and Robert Gross were together awarded the Albert Lasker Award for outstanding contributions to medicine. She and Blaylock were also nominated for the Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine. In 1959, Tausig became the second woman to become a full professor at Johns Hopkins School of Medicine, who was just four years before her retirement. So in the minds of a lot of observers, it was really long overdue for Tau six part.

At one point she wrote, quote, Over the years I've gotten recognition for what I did, but I didn't at the time. It hurt for a while. It hurt when Dr. Blaylock was elected to the National Academy of Arts and Sciences. And I didn't even get promoted from assistant to associate professor.

In January of 1962, one of Tausig former students wrote to her from Germany about the epidemic of congenital disorders and disabilities that had been caused by the sedative thalidomide. As you may recall, we did a two part podcast on this in August of twenty nineteen. At this point, the vitamin had been pulled from the market or made prescription only in many countries. But drug company Merrill still had an application with the Food and Drug Administration for its approval in the United States.

Tausig decided to travel to Europe herself to evaluate what was happening.

She arrived in Germany on February 1st, 1962, and she spent six weeks traveling to clinics in major cities, examining patients and interviewing their doctors and families, as well as visiting the headquarters of the drug manufacturers involved. And as she was doing this back in the United States, Francis Oldham Kelsie at the FDA was basically stalling the drug's application until Tausig could update her on what was happening. By the time Tausig got back to the US, Merrill had pulled its application, but investigations and hearings into what had happened were still ongoing.

Tausig testified before the American College of Physicians on April 11th, 1962, and before Congress on May 24th of that year. She also became a huge part of the education campaign to make sure doctors were aware of the dangers of thalidomide and to get people to check their medicine cabinets and dispose of any they might have on hand. Even though thalidomide had never been approved for use in the United States, it had been distributed as samples. And in many cases those samples had not been documented or tracked in any way.

People who traveled to or lived in other countries also brought thalidomide back to the U.S. with them. As part of all of this, Tausig wrote numerous opinion pieces and articles for medical journals, including advocating for better testing procedures for drugs before they were approved for use.

She was one of the big voices of trying to make sure people knew the dangers and acted appropriately to to dispose of their medications. Although Tousling formally retired in 1963, she kept up an almost full time patient load afterwards, saying, quote, Now that I'm retired, I'm much too busy to stop working. In addition to continuing to work as a pediatric cardiologist in June of that year, she was the first recipient of a fellowship established by the National Foundation of the March of Dimes.

She used the money from. That fellowship to fund a follow up study of people who Alfred Blalock had operated on between 1945 and 1950, she ultimately tracked down 779 former patients and she found that more than 80 percent of them had good or excellent long term results from their surgeries.

By the 1960s, hearing aid technology had advanced to the point that Tausig had been using much smaller devices that mounted to the ear piece of her glasses rather than something much larger that she carried around on her neck. In 1963, she had a surgical procedure on the staples of her left ear, which partially restored her hearing in that ear. She had the same procedure on her right ear in 1964. Although this procedure had been available earlier than this, she hadn't really wanted to do it.

She just didn't see the need for an elective procedure to address something that was not hampering her ability as a doctor. Tausig had become one of the six founding members of the Board of Pediatric Cardiology when it was founded in 1961. In 1964, President Lyndon Johnson awarded her the Presidential Medal of Freedom, her citation read, quote, physician, physiologist and embryologist. Her fundamental concepts have made possible the modern surgery of the heart, which enables countless children to lead productive lives.

In 1965, she became the first woman to serve as president of the American Heart Association. On May 25th, 1970, the clinic at Johns Hopkins was renamed the Helen B.. Tausig Children's Pediatric Cardiac Center. On May 21st, 1976, Johns Hopkins University awarded her the Milton Stover Eisenhower Medal for Distinguished Service. On June 19th, 1977, she was awarded the Scientific Achievement Award from the American Medical Association. During her career, she was also awarded more than 20 honorary doctorates, what she described as her highest award, though, was when parents of children she treated later named other children after her.

Toward the end of her life, Taussig moved to a retirement community in Pennsylvania. She had never gotten married or had children, and she didn't want to become a burden to her friends and colleagues in Baltimore. As she aged, she kept spending her summers in Cape Cod and to study hearts, including studying congenital heart conditions in birds. Toward the end of her life, that is fascinating.

Dr. Helen Tausig died in a car crash on May 20th, 1986, at the age of 87. The pediatric cardiac center at Johns Hopkins still bears her name now as the Blaylock Tausig Thomas Pediatric and Congenital Heart Center.

So next time we will hear a little bit more about her when we talk about Vivian Thomas. But in the meantime, do you have a listener mail idea?

This is from Caroline. Caroline says, My name is Caroline and I live in Philadelphia. Long time listener, first time writer in the lead up to the federal election, the mural arts program in Philadelphia has created a beautiful public art installation called to the polls. One of the pieces is a painting of an altar honoring voting rights ancestors. I got very excited when I saw Nina Otero, Warren's name and knew who she was because of your podcast. I'm attaching a photo I took, although I am regretting not taking a closer picture of the bottom where the words are.

So what's on the bottom is in both English and Spanish and in English. It says this altar is dedicated to our voting rights ancestors Ida B. Wells Barnett, Mary Church, Terrell, Carrie Williams, Clifford Mina, Otero, Warren, Mabel, Pingelly, Mary Louise, but no Baldwin, Miguel Trujillo, Amzi Moore, Medgar Evers and Al Perez. Let's honor their legacy by exercising our right to vote. Vote for Justice, vote for our collective liberation as pieces by Kennedy, Alexandra Gonzalez.

You can see the rest of the paintings here. Caroline included a link to that. Thank you so much for your episode on Nina Otero. Warren made this already moving piece that much more meaningful. Thank you for all the times you have helped me learn about someone who made the world better in their lifetime, but I never knew about in this period of uncertainty. It helps to be reminded that history is made up of a lot of regular people like me who just chose do the right thing, wishing you and yours health and happiness.

Caroline, thanks so much. Caroline, thanks for the link to this. This collection of mural's. So it's in Love Park in Philadelphia. It made me feel pretty wistful for a while. I was going to Philadelphia every November when, like, my spouse would have a thing he was going to and I would ride along and do whatever I wanted in Philadelphia the whole time. I didn't go last year because we had just adopted two baby kittens and I wasn't ready to leave them with a pet sitter yet.

And we didn't go this year because everything's canceled because of the pandemic. But I was like, man, I kind of wish I could just go to Philadelphia and walk around the park a little bit. The the murals are really, really lovely.

We are recording this episode on Election Day and hopefully by the time this episode comes out, we will know what's happening. Yeah, because I don't you and I both lived through the 2000 election. Yes. It took a long time. I sure did. So fingers crossed.

Fingers crossed. Thank you, Caroline. Well, we'll see. But yes, it's so cool that, you know, Tarrawarra is is honored as part of that.

I think it's fantastic. Yeah. So thank you again for sending that message. Caroline, thank you to everybody who's been sending us my email lately. If you would like to write to us about this or any other podcast, we're history podcast that I heart radio dot com. And then we're all over social media at missed in history. And that's where you'll find our Facebook, Twitter, Pinterest and Instagram.

And you can subscribe to our show on the I Heart radio app and Apple podcasts and anywhere else that you get your podcasts.

Stuff you missed in history class is the production of I Heart Radio for more podcasts from My Heart radio visit by her radio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

You know exactly where you were when the Golden State killer was arrested, your moderator on the Zodiac Killer separate. You're in search of a new challenge and or solve the hit podcast that puts you at the center of the investigation. So I was like no other murder mystery podcast. You'll piece together evidence to track down killers hiding in plain sight. Your cases are waiting for you. New episodes of Saul are available now on the I Heart Radio Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts.

One crime for suspects. Can you solve it?