Welcome to Teach Me Something New, a podcast from my heart radio in Britain, pal, I'm your host, Brit. I'm an entrepreneur, a CEO, a mom. And I'm curious about a lot of things. We've already learned so much together, and I can't wait for what's next. My co-host, investee and Jenny are back with brand new episodes every Wednesday. Listen to Teach Me Something New on the radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

This is the secret syllabus podcast. I remember the good old times when I was a college student and then 20, 20 hit. Hi, I'm Hannah Ashton, and I'm Katy Tracy. We're here to fill in everything they missed in our college curriculum, just like you were confronting the unknown.

And if we're being honest, we need all the advice we can get.

Listen to the secret syllabus on the I Heart radio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. See you after class.

Hey, everybody. Happy October, the best month of the year. We are kicking off our October classics with our October 11, 2017 episode on The Green Children of Wilpert Enjoy.

Welcome to stuff you missed in History Class, A production of I Heart Radio.

Hello and welcome to the podcast. I'm Tracy Wilson. And I'm Holly Frys, still in our favorite month of the year, October, October. I love you.

Yes, Halloween season. And so we have an episode that I know a lot of people have requested, but the only person I wrote down was Betty. So thank you, Betty, and everyone that I forgot to write down. In addition to Betty, it is a topic that was written about in the 12th and 13th centuries as a factual thing that really happened. But some people today classify it more as folklore. And it is the green children of Wolpert who made a really eerie appearance in Suffolk, England, in the 12th century.

We accidentally have a little theme of like odd happenings in England at the beginning of this Halloween. We're kicking off with weird English stuff, apparently. And by today's standards, the village of Wilpert is quite small, with a population of only about two thousand people traveling by car. It's a couple of hours northeast of London. That's about 36 miles or 50 kilometers east of Cambridge. And in the 12th century, the area was not exactly bustling, but it was more densely populated than much of rural England and it was a thriving agricultural center.

So according to the story, one day in wool pit, two children, a boy and a girl, emerged from a series of pits that were used for trapping wolves, thieves. These wolf pits and not the fabric of wool are where it gets. Its name is named after Wolf Pits. There are two chronicles of this event and what happened after these two children appeared. One is by Ralph Abbot of Cockshell, who wrote his explanation of what happened as part of the Chronican Anglicanism.

And the other is by William of Newburgh and the Historia Rerum and Korem, or the history of English affairs. And both men wrote these accounts in Latin. A translation of William's version by Joseph Stephenson is part of a truly colossal set of volumes called the Church Historians of England, which was published in 1853 and is available online archive dog if you want to check it out. Translated Ralph's version, too. But we couldn't find that part of the Chronicle Anglicanism in English online.

So instead of subjecting everyone to Ralph's Latin shoved through Google Translate, which is a hilarious activity if you ever want to do it, if you want to get some comedy in your life, we're going to read Stephenson's translation of William's version. I did indeed shove Ralph's Latin version through Google Translate, and that was my amusement for a good chunk of the afternoon. Before we get to William's version of this story, though, I want to have a brief digression about Joseph Stephenson, because he is a character.

He was the son of a surgeon, but he also helped his uncle out in his job as a smuggler in his youth. He was not particularly a good student either. While he was enrolled at a grammar school that was attached to Durham Cathedral. For some reason, he was keeping a loaded pistol among his possessions, which went off while being handled by a servant. And according to the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography that had, quote, dramatic, although not grave consequences.

I feel like a tea set must have been destroyed and other things as well gave no detail. But it makes it sound like, fortunately, no one was harmed in this accidental discharge of a firearm. But there was some dramatic incident. And in spite of this checkered background, Stevenson wound up working at the British Museum. He married and he had two children. And then he changed courses to join the clergy. After he was traumatised by the death of his brother, he became a priest after the death of his wife.

So where we come around to these monumental volumes of translated works of history, he turned out to really have a knack for translating and editing historical documents. He did a lot of work for the Historical Manuscripts Commission. He put together a bunch of different gigantic collections of historical documents for various different clubs and historical societies. These ranged from four to eight volumes in length. Some of them were these gargantuan editions of old religious and secular histories. And this was just his thing.

Apparently he was also extremely personable and generous as well. So this is the guy that did the translation of the thing that we were about to read. Yeah. Worthy of a little mini biography there, for sure.

And back to the story in Stevenson's translation, William begins his account by saying that it doesn't seem right to skip over the story of the green children. But at the same time, he had some doubts about the matter. It seemed both ridiculous and mysterious, but at the same time, he had heard about it from so many people, all of them very respectable, incompetent that he was, quote, compelled to believe. I feel like this is a 12th century version of the X Files poster.

Well, it's also great that couching that happens for spooky stories. And like, I know this is ridiculous, but there are enough reasonable people that believe it that there must be truth in it.

Yes. So we are going to read his whole account because I love it and I want to share it with all of you. And it's a bit long. So we are going to take turns, as we recently did when we talked about the devil's hoofprints. We took turns on a rather lengthy passages. What are we're going to do again today? So he he got into the story saying in East Anglia, there is a village distant, as it is said, four or five miles from the noble monastery of the blessed king and martyr Edmund near this place are seeing some very ancient cavities called Wolf Pits that in English pits for wolves and which give their name to the adjacent village during harvest while the Reapers were employed in gathering the produce of the fields.

Two children, a boy and a girl, completely green in their persons and clad in garments of a strange color and unknown materials, emerged from these excavations while wandering through the fields in astonishment. They were seized by the Reapers and conducted to the village and many persons coming to see so novelas site. They were kept some days without food, but when they were nearly exhausted with hunger and yet could relish no species of support which was offered to them. It happened that some beans were brought in from the field, which they immediately seized with avidity and examined the stock for the polls, but not finding it in the hollow of the stalk.

They wept bitterly upon this. One of the bystanders taking the beans from the pods offered them to the children who seized them directly and ate them with pleasure. This next sentence is my favorite sentence and the entire thing by this food, they were supported for many months until they learned the use of bread at length by degrees. They changed their original color through the natural effect of our food and became like ourselves and also learned our language. It seemed fitting to certain discreet persons that they should receive the sacrament of baptism, which was administered accordingly.

The boy, who appeared to be the younger, surviving his baptism but a little time, died prematurely. His sister, however, continued in good health and differed not in the least for the women of our own country. Afterwards, as it is reported, she was married at Lynn and was living a few years since, at least so they say. Moreover, after they had acquired our language on being asked who and whence they were, they are said to have replied.

We are inhabitants of the land of St.. Martin, who is regarded with peculiar veneration in the country which gave us birth. Being further asked where that land was and how they came hither, they answered, We are ignorant of both these circumstances and we only remember this, that on a certain day when we were feeding our father's flocks in the fields, we heard a great sound such as we are now accustomed to here at St. Edmunds. When the bells are chiming and whilst listening to the sound in admiration, we became on a sudden, as it were, entranced and found ourselves among you in the fields where you were reaping, being questioned whether in that land they believed in Christ or whether the sun arose.

They replied that the country was Christian and possessed churches, but said they quote, The sun does not rise upon our countrymen. Our land is little cheered by its beams. We are contented with that twilight which among you precedes the sunrise or follows the sunset. Moreover, a certain luminous country is seen not far distant from ours and divided from it by a very considerable river. These and many other matters too numerous to particularize. They are said to have recounted to curious enquirers.

Let everyone say as he pleases and reason on such matters according to his abilities. I feel no regret at having recorded an event so prodigious and miraculous. So that's the story I know. Obviously they were asked a whole lot of other questions, but it tickles me that the ones that he was compelled to write down here, where do you believe in Christ? And also does the sun exist there? Yeah, maybe they thought they were from another planet or realm that's going to come up.

Yeah, Saturn clearly. Obviously, we're going to take a quick break before we get into some of the historical elements that relate to this story.

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This is the secret syllabus podcast. I remember the good old times when I was a college student and then 20, 20 hit. Hi, I'm Hannah Ashton, and I'm Katy Tracy. We're here to fill in everything they missed in our college curriculum, just like you were confronting the unknown.

And if we're being honest, we need all the advice we can get.

Listen to the secret syllabus on the I Heart radio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. See you after class. Overall, Williams and Ralph's versions of what happened with these green children are consistent with each other, although Williams is a little bit longer and it has a few more details.

Both agree that the children were taken to the home of Lord Richard Cowen, who lives in Wykes, which is about six miles to the north of Wilpert Williams. Mention of this isn't a footnote which we didn't read, which is why it probably does not ring a bell. They both talk about the children having green skin and only eating beans and eventually assimilating with the rest of the community with the brother dying sometime after being baptized. And unlike in the version we read, though, Ralph makes it sound as though only the sister lived long enough to tell their story.

He doesn't mention a particular name for where they came from, and there's no certain luminous country that they could see from their home. There's also a slight difference in the two accounts concerning how the children claimed that they came to be in Walpeup. We read in William's version that they had been tending the flocks before hearing a loud noise quote, such as we are now accustomed to here at St. Edmunds when the bells are chiming. But they didn't otherwise know how they had wound up in Wilpert.

Ralph, on the other hand, said the children reported that they had become disoriented while tending cattle and they got lost. And then they followed the sound of chiming bells through a long series of underground passages before emerged emerging from a cave near Wilpert. So bells are involved in both of them in a slightly different way. One is sort of like they're hoping to get home theoretically. Right.

And the other is just that they the bells put them in some odd mental state that they went into a fugue state and traveled to Walpeup. Yes, OK. The two accounts do diverge in what happened to the surviving sister of the pair as well. So we read in William's account that she married a man living in Lynn. But Ralph says that she became a servant in Lord Richard to Cowen's house and lived there for many years. Not necessarily. Happily, though, he calls her, quote, very wanton and impudent.

Regardless, William indicates that she was still living when he wrote his Chronical down. And there's been some discussion about exactly when in the 12th century this event might have happened. William of Newburgh lived from roughly eleven thirty six to 11 98. His version was probably written down toward the end of his life. Ralph's version made it into print after William's death sometime around 12 20. So a lot of times you would think, OK, the later account is probably not quite as accurate.

But even though Ralph's version was written down later, he actually lived a lot closer to Wolpert than William did. He said he had learned the story directly from Lord Richard to count himself, whereas William was hearing it all at least second hand. And William notes that it was at harvest time during the reign of King Stephen, which was from eleven thirty five to eleven fifty. For Ralph, on the other hand, says that it took place during the reign of his successor Henry, the second, which was from eleven fifty four to eleven eighty nine.

Author and archaeologist Brian Houghton points out that there's no mention of the children in the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle, which documents English history up until Stephen's death and includes a number of other odd and wondrous stories. It's certainly possible that the grandchildren aren't in the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle because its authors didn't know about it or just didn't think it needed to be included. But if it's not included because it hadn't happened yet, that would put the time frame into Henry the second scream rather than Stevens.

And regarding William's notation of it being harvest time, the beans that they were eating would have been broad beans, which are more commonly known as fava beans in the United States. Those were picked around July and August. So that's the approximate time of year. And there is a lot to suggest that something really did happen. The two accounts seem to have been written completely independently of one another. And although William does a bit of protesting about how he knows that this story sounds unbelievable, both men wrote as though they were documenting a real event that actually happened at the same time when both men were writing purportedly mystical, supernatural and miraculous events were a lot more likely to be accepted at face value than they might be today.

It was pretty much normal to write down something as odd as two green children crawling out of a wolf bit and just accepting the idea that something supernatural was at work without really having to examine it further. The story of the green children of Wolpert definitely stuck around into the 13th century, and from there it became a little more obscure outside the immediate area until the late 1980s, when the first printed edition of Williams's Story Room and Bucaram came out. A new edition that came out in 16 ten also included Ralph's versions of the story as a compliment.

So Williams with that. It started making more appearances in written works by other authors who sometimes got understandably confused about which version was Ralph's and which which version was Williams. I in fact, got a few confused about that repeatedly when working on this podcast. It's easy to do retellings of this story from the 15th century and beyond. Also, we're not usually quite as credulous as Ralph and William had been. William Kamden writing in his work Britannia in Six is one example.

Here is his description, and I wish I could share all of the delightful spelling and his description with everyone. It's pretty great. It's pretty awesome. Wolpert is a market town which meant merchant and sounded as much as the rules pit. And if we may believe Newbridge insists, you have told as pretty informal a tale of the place, as is that fable called the true narration of Lucien, namely how two little boys, forsooth, of green colour and of satyrs kind after they had made a long journey by passages underground from out of another world, from the activities and St.

Martin's Land came up here, of whom you would know more repair to the author himself, where you will find such a matter as will make you laugh your fill if you have a laughing spleen. I feel like I definitely have a laughing spleen.

I think so, yeah. That we have made that prognosis. It's official.

I will call my family doctor Newbridge insists was a name for William of Newburgh. They quote, True narration of Lucien is a second century satire by Lucien of Sam Osada, which details a trip to the moon that would rival our great Moon Hoax episode. There's a whole bit about men with dogs heads that fight from winged acorns and fleas as big as twelve elephants. Oh, that's terrifying. And warriors armed with radishes flung from slings. I love all of this.

This work is obviously not meant to be taken as fact, and Camden obviously does not take the green children seriously at all. From there, the story of the green children started to influence other, more fanciful works. Francis Godwin sixteen thirty eight. The Man in the Moon or a Discourse of a Voyage Thither, which he called a, quote, essay of fancy, talks about a novel disciplinary method employed by parents on the moon where they would send their unruly children down to earth and brings them earthlings children back in their place.

And in this whole story, he made reference to, quote, certain stories he had heard confirming this idea was true. And there's certain stories were Williams, Historia, Rerum and Khorram. I want to know what happened to the earthquake, kids that lived on the moon, that they eventually get fed beads and turn green. There are so many questions you might say. I didn't read the whole thing. The green children have continued to make appearances in fiction into the 20th century and beyond.

Herbert Reed's novel, The Green Child came out in 1930 for the green children of Borneo, set in Spain in 1887, was part of John Macleans 1965 book Strange Destinies. The Spanish setting is echoed in the 1997 10000 Maniacs song Green Children, which starts an August day in the hills of Spain. A pair of children emerged from a cave. And of course, there are lots of other stories and books and TV episodes and the like that all draw from this as well.

And it's not totally clear whether the green children are the inspiration for the basic idea of Martians as little green men. But they were definitely described as green and people were also speculating that maybe they were aliens as early as the 16th century. And outside of the world of fiction, the green children also started being written about as folklore in the 19th century. In 1850, Thomas Kitley included bits of both Williams and Ralph's accounts in his work fairy mythology. This was the first time the story was available to people who did not read Latin.

And since it was in a book by a folklorist called Fairy Mythology, a lot of people from this point assumed that story was inherently folkloric. Sometimes they they're specifically fairies, such as in Katherine Brigg's Dictionary of Fairies, which came out in 1976. And there are also people who interpret them as forest spirits or personifications of nature. I feel like the whole like fairy myth right up through Tinker is very informed by all of this.

Oh, sure. About the same time as Kitley was documenting the story as folklore, the green children were also becoming more widely known to the general public. In 1875, a guidebook to East Anglia reference to the grandchildren and then other mentions and other travel guides followed, as you know, interesting points of interests and interesting tidbits about the place that you're visiting. A sign at Wilpert honouring the story was erected in 1977 as part of Queen Elizabeth Silver Jubilee. And today the story is like there on the Village of Whippets web page.

And of course, there are also a lot of rational or not so rational explanations for what was really going on here. And we're going to dive into those possibilities after we first pause for a little sponsor break.

So, unsurprisingly, there are lots of hypotheses about who the green children were and where they came from, one connects them to the babes in the wood, which was first written down as a ballad in 1905.

And the basic story of the babes in the wood is that a very greedy uncle was guardian to two young children, and he was hoping to steal their fortune. So he hired some men to take them into the woods and murder them. As so often happens in these kinds of stories, the men he hired didn't have the heart to do it and abandoned them instead. So in the story, they eventually starved. This folktale is typically set in Weland Wood, which is about 30 miles or 40 kilometers away from Wilpert.

So people suggesting that the green children were really the babes in the wood just moved the location closer by and also about 400 years earlier than the Ballards first return appearance. That definitely doesn't mean the ballot didn't exist earlier, but like four hundred years is a long time for a ballot to go without being written down or a story to go without being written down, at least by this point in history.

So compounding the kind of far fetched oddness of this explanation is the go to rationale for why they were green, which is sclerosis, otherwise known as green sickness. Now, while there are rare forms of anemia that can cause a person to have a kind of greenish pallor, along with the idea that people who are really nauseated are described as looking green, sometimes a green sickness is not that green. Sickness was described in medical literature from the 16th to late 19th century.

It was diagnosed almost exclusively in young women and it was also called the Virgin's disease. The symptoms included things like restlessness, irritability, fatigue, too little appetite, too much appetite, indigestion, headache and an absence of menstrual periods. Treatments included bloodletting, marriage always on a prescription pad and medicines to bring on menstrual flow. To be clear, marriage really meant sex in this case, and there are some extremely suggestive ballads dating back to the 16th and 17th centuries about treatments.

And we're using the air quotes there for green sickness. There's actually a sawbones episode about green sickness. If you want to hear a whole lot more about this, it also does not really take a lot of Google effort to find these extremely suggestive ballads, ballads about how to treat green sickness. So obviously they probably didn't have green sickness because that's not a real thing. Right. And also those in the sort of combination story of the green children and the babes in the wood, the folks who don't suggest that maybe they had fluorosis often suggests that maybe the hired men did actually tried to kill them using arsenic that they had survived with the arsenic had turned their skin green.

This is a weird conflation of sort of two different historical things. While arsenic has definitely been used to make green dyes, it was typically exposure to those dyes that made a person's skin turn green, not surviving an attempt to be poisoned with it. Right. Arsenic in itself does not carry that pigment right to a person's person. I guess if you tried to murder someone with green, not which you could have done, you could have done, then you might have green skin.

You'll be so fashionable and deceased. Yeah, that would be a weird way to murder people. Yeah. Don't make a great story for any of our writers out there. You just take that one around. The idea that the green children might have been aliens, which I love, goes all the way back to William Kamden, who suggested that they were either setters, meaning Wildeman or Antipodeans, meaning aliens. Robert Burton also made a passing reference to the idea that they may have come from another planet in Anatomy of Melancholy, which was published in 16 21.

So the aliens hypothesis has been around for a really long time and it has persisted to the present. In a 1997 article in Analogue, which is a science fiction magazine, Duncan Luden asserted that they were from a human colony on an alien planet sent here through a malfunctioning transporter. And this explanation also involves the Knights Templar in some way. This is one of the few things I didn't actually get to read for myself all the way through. So I'm relying on someone else's synopsis of it.

But interestingly, in a much more down to earth portion of this article, he also pieced together a family tree for Richard to count and claims that the surviving sister was baptised as Agnes and that the man she married was a royal official named Richard Ba. So that's a fascinating. Possibly totally legit historical fact in the context of this overall aliens article with the Knights Templar involved. I wonder if that means that someone could trace their alien heritage all the way back to Agnese, and you could know that you are part from another planet, which you really all are, because we're all made of stardust to some degree.

True story. We're all aliens. The most complete practical explanation for what might have happened came from Paul Harris in nineteen ninety eight and that was published in 40 Studies, which is an offshoot of 40 and times. I actually used a lot of writing from one of the editors there for our Devil's Footprint's episode. And that's a magazine that's devoted to strange phenomena. And he suggests that all of this really happened in eleven seventy three in the reign of Henry.

The second in brief, Harris suggests that these were the children of Flemish immigrants and that their parents were killed at the battle of Farnam in eleven seventy three. The St. Martin's land that the sister referred to was Fortnum's St.. Martin, roughly 10 miles or 16 kilometers from Wilpert. They're not that far away and also not far from the river LARC. So there would have been a river nearby. According to this theory. They escaped the battle and then the two children fled into that Vord forest and took refuge in Flint mines there before following the bells from Barry Saint Edmunds to find their way out and make their way to the pit so their unknown tongue and clothing were just Flemish and their skin was greenish due to malnutrition due to this extended time of being abandoned and wandering in Flint mines.

That all holds up. It all sounds like it fits so very well, but of course, there are a few problems. One, the Flemish people killed for them were mercenaries hired to fight with English rebels against Henry. The second forces, mercenaries generally, as a rule, did not bring their children with them into battle to it seems unlikely that no one around Wilpert spoke Flemish or some other version of Dutch, at least enough to spot it as a known language rather than some unrecognizable tongue.

Three. The river lark isn't really that big, and even to a child's eye, it's probably not, quote, a very considerable river. So that descriptor does not really hold up. And for this for them to Thetford, to bury St Edmunds to Warpaint, Trick really goes way out of the way. It's actually a total of about 30 miles or 52 kilometers. The first leg of it going in nearly the direct opposite direction from Wilpert. Thetford is also way too far away from Bury St Edmunds to hear the bells from there also on a lot more.

Just immediate. Non synchronization in the descriptions, that battle happened in October, so unless those two kids wandered for months and months and months before arriving in Wopat, like there would not have been any fresh beans to harvest and write to them.

Because you'll remember that was, what, June, July? I think July, August was generally harvested. That's nine months, nine to 10 months, including winter. Right. With two tiny children. Yeah. So malnourished, tiny children.

So it's a mystery.

Maybe they made the devil's footprints, maybe some physical side trip, play a little prank time, traveled 700 years maybe, or some other number of years, depending which account you read. Yeah.

So pretty much all of the historical accounts. And then also a lot of the hits like Father back in the past, works of fiction that we talked about today are all on the Internet for free and they will all be linked from our show notes to this episode. If you just really want to go read either a colossally long history of the church in England as translated in the 19th century, or if you just want to read some weird science fiction esque stories about the moon written in the distant past, like that's all there.

Who doesn't want to read those? I kind of do the whole thing about the flying acorns and the dogface people and the Wright the specifically multiples number of elephants that the fleas were as big as this. Yeah, but people are pretty much on their own if they want to go looking for the dirty Ballards. Is that where we decided that the dirty badlands are not linked in?

One of them is definitely not safe for work. Yeah, but I so as I was trying to put together some thoughts about green sickness, I found a larger than I would expect, a number of just very credulous papers published in journals that were like, do you think green sickness could have been caused by malnutrition? No, I think green sickness probably was caused by misogyny. But but one of them like it.

It started out seeming like they were genuinely asking whether there was some kind of organic mechanism at work. And then the conclusion was like, no, really. Like people just got really into hypocritic and started making these Hippocratic diagnoses. And that's why it suddenly enters this historical record at this time and leaves this time. But it was through that one article that I found this particularly risque ballad, which I you know, if you're an adult person with kind of a skewed sense of humor, it is always funny to me and a little in a little bit of a silly and almost borderline charming way to read sort of dirty writing.

And again, I'm using the air quotes from really olden times because their choice of words is just very funny to today's ear. That's true. And that's what makes it hilarious. Yeah.

Thanks so much for joining us on this Saturday. Since this episode is out of the archive, if you heard an email address or a Facebook you URL or something similar over the course of the show, that could be obsolete. Now, our current email address is History podcast at I heart radio dot com, our old HowStuffWorks. The email address no longer works and you can find us all over social media at MTT in history. And you can subscribe to our show on Apple podcast, Google podcast, the I Heart Radio app, and wherever else you listen to podcasts.

Stuff you missed in history class is a production of I Heart Radio for more podcasts from my heart radio music by her radio album, podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

This is the secret syllabus podcast, I am a YouTube and a student at Belmont University. I'm a YouTube year and an international student at Cornell University and probably just like you. I remember the good old times when I was a college student and then 20/20 hit.

How am I supposed to make friends while staying six feet apart? What will happen to the parties and tailgates? What about my college closure?

Will I just be sent home again? Home again and home again?

So that's where the secret syllabus comes in. Hi, I'm Hannah Ashton. And I'm Katie Tracy.

We're here to fill in everything they missed in our college curriculum, just like you were confronting the unknown both as college students and content creators. And if we're being honest, we need all the advice we can get.

Listen to the secret syllabus on the I Heart radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.

No prerequisites necessary. See you after class.