Dear young rocker, season two is a raw, honest, strange and entertaining story about finding yourself in your early 20s and a lifelong relationship with music. It's hosted by me, Chelsea Erson, and it's executive produced by Jake Brennan of Disgraced Land. Dear Young Rocker comes to you from Double Elvis Productions and I Heart Radio.
Listen to Dear Young Rocker on the I Heart radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class A production of I Heart Radio. Hello and welcome to the podcast, I'm Holly Fry, and I'm Tracy B. Wilson. OK, so here we are in part two of our two parter about the White House. And if you missed part one, that means you skipped past all of the discussion of the construction of the White House and all of the renovations that have been done there over the years.
We are talking about a lot of renovation, more than you might even think for a building code for sure. And today, what we're going to talk about first is the White House gardens and how they have evolved. But then we are going to shift gears and talk about the more serious matter of how deeply connected the president's home is to the country's history of slavery. So while you can jump in here, you're going to miss some of the context that gives a fuller picture to that discussion of enslavement and its role in the early presidential administrations.
To talk about the gardens, though, which, as we noted to in part one, were a big part of the inspiration for this episode. Gardens were always part of the plan for the White House. George Washington saw to the purchase of property adjoining the lot that was chosen for the house itself had the intent to plant a botanical garden. The area that now makes up the South Lawn was owned by a tobacco planter and that and the tract that make up the north grounds were purchased from their private owners.
Washington, having never lived in the house, did not get to fulfill his garden plans. He had really envisioned something akin to Andre Le Notre is impressive gardens at Baci. We also talked about how Thomas Jefferson was very motivated and inspired by that. The idea was that visiting dignitaries would be able to walk through the White House gardens and find the landscape a rival to anything in Europe. But it fell to the first occupant of the home, John Adams, who was only there for four months to have the first garden planted.
And he did that. But it was definitely not quite as grand as Washington had probably envisioned due to a lot of challenges, just like establishing a garden on land that was never intended for that. The layout of the White House landscape is really more to be credited to Thomas Jefferson, who redesigned everything on the grounds during his time as president. It was under his direction that seedling trees were planted throughout the property to create groves. And he also directed the placement and layout of fences walls in the flower garden.
The first official White House gardener was Charles Busi, hired by President James Monroe. In his successor, who was brought in by the John Quincy Adams administration, was Irish immigrant John Ousley. Ousley and President Adams are said to have gardened and planted trees together, and Adams, who clearly did love to garden, established fruit trees and vegetables, as well as the flower gardens that had been planned by his presidential predecessors because they may have been the first, but Ousley was really far more influential in the role of White House gardener, and he continued to serve as the official White House gardener for three decades, John Quincy Adams, a really respected Azeez knowledge, and he seems to have truly enjoyed the time that he spent learning from the gardener.
In a journal entry dated June 5th, 1827, he wrote, quote, In this small garden of less than two acres, there are forest and fruit trees, shrubs, hedges, succulent vegetables, kitchen and medicinal herbs, hothouse plants, flowers and weeds to the amount I conjecture of at least one thousand. One half of them, perhaps, are common weeds, most of which have none but the botanical name. I asked the name of every plant I see do.
The gardener knows almost all of them by their botanical names. But the numbers to be discriminated and recognized are baffling to the memory and confounding to the judgment. From the small patch where the medicinal herbs stands together, I plucked this morning leaves of balm and hyssop Majura Mint, rEU, Sage, Tanzy, Tarragon and Wormwood, one half of which were known to me only by the name the tarragon, not even by that. I like how he discovered tarragon and was really excited.
Ousley gained a staff to help him during Andrew Jackson's term, enabling him to establish an orangery. We mentioned that in the first episode where citrus could be grown year round again. Borrowing from the European gardening playbook, Ousley also planted new species of trees during this period, including elm and maple, and John Ousley tended the White House gardens until 1852 and then left during the presidency of Millard Fillmore.
There are several dozen commemorative trees on the White House property. That tradition was started by the 19th President Rutherford B. Hayes. In 1876. He initiated the practice with the dedication of a tree to commemorate the centennial of the country when that massive Roosevelt renovation of the actual house took place in 1932 that we talked about in the first episode, so too was the garden almost completely reimagined during that time. The White House gardener was Henry. And he and first lady Edith Roosevelt designed and executed a colonial garden, the colonial garden only lasted a little more than a decade, though.
When Woodrow Wilson became president, First Lady Ellen Wilson removed Edith Roosevelt's design and replaced it with what most modern folks might think of as a classic element of the White House grounds. And that is the Rose Garden. It had been known as the West Garden prior to the redesign and after it was completed, it was simply the Rose Garden in 1935, a name recognizable to many, Frederick Law Olmsted was brought in by Franklin Delano Roosevelt to reshape the gardens.
The design that Olmstead came up with has essentially been in place ever since, with changes to the gardens still following the lines that he laid out and those changes focusing more on content shifts than any alterations to the footprint of the beds.
Later, Eleanor Roosevelt also planted vegetables, part of a victory garden that was a symbol of similar gardens being planted throughout the country to bolster the food supply even through the 1950s while the Rose Garden was established by that name. It wasn't what we think of when we envision it today. It was still a private garden. It was not like somewhere that the press would congregate. The Rose Garden didn't evolve into the current space as a place where press conferences and other ceremonies would take place until the Kennedy administration changes to the East Garden were initiated during the Kennedy presidency but didn't come to fruition until President Lyndon Baines Johnson was in office.
When the garden was completed, it was dedicated by First Lady Lady Bird Johnson to Jackie Kennedy. Although it is still officially named the East Garden, it is also sometimes referred to as the first lady's garden or the Jacqueline Kennedy Garden. Mrs. Johnson also spearheaded the creation of the Children's Garden at the White House in 1969.
While the gardens and grounds themselves have, at least in layout, stayed pretty static for the second half of the 20th century and into the 21st, their uses have really varied. The South Lawn has become home to the traditional White House Easter egg hunt, and in 2009, a portion of the South Lawn near the tennis courts was converted into a vegetable garden that was done by First Lady Michelle Obama and chef Camp Kass with an assist from the students of Bancroft Elementary School.
Yeah, I imagine ongoing changes will happen forever. So, OK, we are about to get into the unpleasant realities of this building, which we've been talking about and which has become so iconic and its links to enslavement. So before we do, we're going to take a quick breath and have a little sponsor break. What were you doing in college in your early 20s? Probably some partying, hooking up with that cute someone desperately trying to pick your future career and maybe even spending some time finding yourself.
Yeah, me too. In season two of your young rocker, I tell the story of my own early 20s. It's a raw, honest, strange and entertaining story about how we all end up becoming ourselves even when we try to be someone else. Hopefully your journey didn't involve getting sucked into a cult, running away to an island to be a made for billionaires and lots of shoplifting. But that's what happened when I tried to give up the one thing I love more than anything playing music.
Join me Chelsea Erson for Dear Young Rocker Season two. Dear Young Rocker is executive produced by Jake Brennan of Disgraced Land and comes to you from Double Elvis Productions and I Heart Radio. Listen to Dear Young Rocker on the I Heart radio app Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. So we have been talking at great length about the White House and how it was built in all of this progress and renovation and updating and gardening, but we have to acknowledge that even through numerous early administrations, enslaved labor was part of the White House, literally at its very foundations.
It is not a part of its history that is particularly comfortable, but it is an important part of this story.
So you've probably heard the quote from first lady Michelle Obama, which she used at several events during her time as first lady. So it became pretty famous, quote, I wake up every morning in a house that was built by slaves. So when she first said that it made a bunch of people really angry, we said it on this show one time and a bunch of people got really angry. But it's absolutely the truth. Slavery was a part of the president's home from the very beginning.
So we mentioned at the beginning of the first episode that New York and Philadelphia both vied to be selected by George Washington as the place for the president's permanent residence would be built.
But slavery was a significant factor in those cities not being chosen. Both New York and Philadelphia were already working on antislavery legislation at this point, and George Washington enslaved people. And he knew that moving the presidential household to one of these cities permanently would look really hypocritical and that it could come up as a contradiction of his public image as a liberator of the people.
So the Residents Act of 1790, which we talked about a little in the previous episode, offered him a way to avoid that problem by placing the seat of the government near Virginia, where his home of Mount Vernon was also worth remembering. The land that was ceded for the Capitol had come from two states, Virginia and Maryland, which were both slave states. We nodded to the fact that there was a lot of backroom negotiation that happened and putting this act together.
And one piece of it was in giving the Southern slave states more power by having the capital located there. Yep. So the records from the huge construction effort to first build the president's house feature a lot of laborers by first names only. And that means those were enslaved men who had been hired out by their enslavers to work on the project. So a lot of times you would see them listed as, for example, like John hired out by a person who enslaved him.
So while there were Europeans in many of these skilled labor positions and there were free men of color on the payroll, they were working right alongside men who were enslaved. The plan had originally been to hire a workforce made entirely up of European craftsmen, but there just wasn't enough interest to establish a big enough workforce for what was needed. And that is when the shift was made to use both free and enslaved black labor to build not only the White House but also the Capitol building and other necessary spaces for the new federal government.
From bricklaying to carpentry to stone cutting and a lot of other jobs. Enslaved people were used for labor. Often they were trained right there on the job and they cleared the land and they established roads and the infrastructure that allowed construction to take place, all while, as we said, working alongside paid labor and earning extra income for their enslavers, some of whom were the project commissioners. The hiring of enslaved labor is in the records kept by the commissioners, the earliest mention of it appearing on April 13th, 1792, in which they lay out their plan to hire enslaved people to make up this gap in their workforce.
Their agreement was that the enslavers would provide clothing and a blanket for each person, and then in return, the commissioners would handle provisions needed for those people and pay twenty one pounds per year per person to their enslaver.
It's hard to find documentation about the identities and the specific jobs of the enslaved workers. But the White House Historical Association has compiled a list of more than 200 each associated with the person who hired them out. And the association continues to search for more information. To tie back to our previous episode with historian Stephanie Jones Rodgers about her book. They were her property. Some of those people who hired out enslaved people were women. There is only one enslaved woman listed in the commissioner's records.
And she also has the unusual distinction of being listed with the last name. Her name was Katherine Green. We do not, unfortunately, know anything else about the specifics of her work.
There also are some instances on the record in which an enslaver was part of the construction staff and then also brought their own enslaved workforce to work alongside them, collecting the federal funds for each of them. In addition to his own wages, even architect James Hoban hired out his enslaved workers for the project. Although there was a conflict with the commissioners when they found out that the work hoban's. People were doing was being paid at a higher rate than the standard, the last payment made for enslaved labor for the initial construction of the president's home was made on June 7th, 1800 for the amount of nineteen dollars and seventy four cents to an enslaver named Joseph Queen.
When the president's mansion burned in 1814, enslaved labor was once again used to rebuild it, as well as to landscaped the grounds. Additionally, it was decided that the landscape of the surrounding area should be upgraded and enslaved. Labor continued to be used in that endeavor also.
Yeah, we'll talk about it in a little bit, but that went on for years. So students in the US, particularly of our generation, I think, Tracy, when we first were taught about the founding fathers, it was in this way the framed them as almost transcendent, really, like just regaled as these amazing humans. Sometimes that is still the way people talk about them. But it's important to remember that they were human and many of them, most of them participated in the institution of slavery.
Of the first 12 presidents of the United States, only two are normally cited as having not been enslavers, those being John Adams and John Quincy Adams. And even that statement is more complicated than it might seem at face value. But we are going to get into that in a moment.
So George Washington is estimated to have enslaved 123 people in his lifetime for Thomas Jefferson. That number was 600. James Madison, one hundred, James Monroe, 75, Andrew Jackson 200. Martin Van Buren one, William Henry Harrison 11, John Tyler 70, James K. Polk 25. And Zachary Taylor, 150.
And those numbers are totals of people enslaved by those presidents in their lifetimes, not necessarily when they were president, but there was definitely enslaved labor in the president's house. For each of those men in the presidential household of George Washington, at least 10 enslaved people have been documented. At least 11 were documented as part of Jefferson's time in the White House, James Madison had six enslaved workers in his White House. James Monroe, 13, Andrew Jackson nine, Martin Van Buren four, although not all their names were known.
You'll notice that is a higher number than what he's listed as having enslaved. There's not necessarily always a direct correlation that it is a person that he was the direct enslaver of or would claim ownership over that person. But they are hired in through another way. That's why there's that discrepancy. John Tyler for James K. Polk for again, these are all in the White House. Zachary Taylor. Eleven more than thirty enslaved people tended the grounds in that period.
We talked about from 1818 to 1821 as part of that redesign of the gardens and the landscaping.
All of these numbers are also at lease, meaning there could have been more. These are just the numbers for which there's some sort of documentation, whether it's in ledgers, census records or journal entries made by the people in each household.
Yeah, different presidents had different levels of recordkeeping about how things ran. Like one of the reasons we know so much about Thomas Jefferson's enslaved workforce is because he was very rigorous about keeping notes and records and ledgers. Others were not as rigorous in that way. So it's a little bit trickier to identify what the situation really was. And enslaved workers feel just about every role that would be needed in the president's household. So they cooked the meals, they attended to the horses in the stables.
They served as personal servants, as ladies, maids and valets. They basically supported the household in every way. And the personal space that was set aside for the enslaved workforce was normally the attic or rooms on the ground floor, none of which were particularly comfortable. And there were often rodent issues.
Coming up, we are going to talk about a couple of stories of presidents and their enslaved staff that you may have heard about. But then we will talk about some of the more difficult and nuanced topics related to how even ardent antislavery leaders were just not necessarily walking the walk. And we'll do all that after a sponsor break. One of the women who had been enslaved in the Washington household caused the president a great deal of embarrassment and probably anger. As a result, one of his wife, Martha's enslaved maids on a judge escaped to freedom owner was born into slavery at Mount Vernon.
She began training as a maid when she was 12 and she was moved to New York with the first lady in 1789 at the age of 16, when a judge learned that she was going to be given to the Washington's granddaughter as a wedding gift.
She took her chance and slipped out at dinner one night rather than being moved into the home of a woman who was known to have a temper and a man who she feared might sexually assault her. There was a notice placed in the Philadelphia Gazette offering a ten dollar reward for the return of Oney judge how it was spelled in the listing who had, quote, absconded from the household of the president of the United States.
But a judge lived a free life after that.
Although George Washington pursued her for years after leaving the president's home, she had made her way to a ship that left Philadelphia and headed to New Hampshire. She did that immediately and she worked there as a domestic servant. And she settled into a married life with a man named Jack Stain's, who she met after she had made her escape. Although Washington twice sent men that essentially tried to trick on a judge into returning to Virginia, she outwitted them both times.
And then after George Washington died, she lived more or less unbothered, at least by this pursuit. In an interesting twist, Washington stipulated in his will that when his wife, Martha, died, all of their enslaved workforce was to be freed, which seems interesting, considering pretty much right up to the end. He was obsessed with this one person coming back.
Yeah, well, and doing it that way also meant that he was technically freeing the people he was enslaving, but without any inconvenience to him or his spouse by has actually not have an enslaved workforce anymore. Yeah, there's a lot of her story that I didn't get into here. It's been told in other places. But like the the things that really struck me are how much the Washington seemed so shocked where they're like. But we treated her like a daughter and then later in her life own a judge gave statements about her time being enslaved.
And she's like a daughter that they owned essentially lake to her. It was so obvious why this was a problem. But the Washingtons, it was very clear, did not really get how that was incorrect because they felt like they were such good. Right. They felt like they were the original trope of the kind slaveowner. Yeah.
There's a I'm pretty sure it's an episode of the podcast Uncivil that tells this whole story. I don't remember if it is one of the episodes where there is some profanity in that show. So if you're going to listen with kids, maybe a preview of previous to anyway that that entire podcast is extremely good. I highly recommend it. Thomas Jefferson has often been written about as sort of a walking paradox. He was a man that penned the preamble to the Declaration of Independence that was full of all this rhetoric about all men being created equal and the whole, quote, life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness thing while he was simultaneously enslaving scores of people because he was not thinking of them as actual people when he was writing that language, he tried to blame slavery in the colonies on King George the Third and a discarded passage that he wrote for the Declaration of Independence.
He kept almost all of his enslaved staff at Monticello away from his home in the capital, although he did have a smaller and slave staff at the Capitol when he was president. And of course, there's this, a relationship with Sally Hemings that's been the source of debate since his presidency. At this point, like pretty much, historians agree that that that he fathered children with her. Yeah, there has been DNA testing that definitely points in that direction.
People will try to say that that was really a relative and not him.
Like at this point, Monticello is like, no, really. Like, yeah, yeah. They have a lot of writing about it and a lot of writing about Sally. This is one of those things where people like to debate this and Sally's part in the relationship.
The problem is that we don't have anything, in her words, to really inform any of this. But I remember in high school history having a teacher that really wanted this to be romanticized desperately, which there are plenty of people who still like that version. But I think it's really important to remember, because one of the things that people point to as this being a romantic, like an actual caring for one another sort of relationship is that they had. Ben in Paris, Sally had been brought to Paris with Jefferson, she was the the maid to one of his daughters and that she had negotiated going back to the United States with him.
Once again, to be enslaved because in France, she was not considered property of any kind. And so people are like, well, she must have loved him, she chose this life and it's like, well, OK, first of all, she was pregnant at the time, so she was in a little bit of a desperate situation, too. She was 16. This is not a situation where this person really has agency in the relationship of any kind.
Three, like a 16 year old who is with child in France, a country she does not come from. That's not really a choice in that time. Right. So I just if you were one of those people, I hate to bust any bubbles, but like, this one needs to be busted because you can't really consider this a consensual, like, valid relationship, even if they had feelings for one another. The power play, like the power structure involved, is just not one where she had any agency.
Mm hmm. Anyway, that was my soapbox about Sally Hemings. Yeah. There's certainly more that you could go on about, but we'll keep scooting.
There are also ways where you can like you can see people exercising the agency that they did have and sometimes people will, like, use that to be like, well, she could have left because she chose to do these other things. And like, that's not the same thing as being on equal footing with the person who's enslaving you. Right. And she was often negotiating and looking at the future of her children right.
At that point, which is a whole other set of needs and values and sacrifice that further shift, that that power dynamic.
The stories of Washington, Jefferson and other early presidents and their relationships with slavery are likely not new to many of our listeners. But I wanted to make sure we go back and we talk about the Adams's because that becomes a lot more multifaceted and it is a closer examination that will reveal that they, too, certainly benefited from enslaved labor. And I want to cover this, not to vilify them, because they are often held up as like not these two.
But I really think it's important to talk about this so that we can underscore just how institutionalized the practice of enslavement was. So much so that people in power who vocally spoke out against it were also passively part of it and sometimes not so passively. So one of the trickier parts of the accounting of enslaved people in the president's residence is during the administration of John Quincy Adams, while the household of his father, John Adams, at various times may have hired enslaved labor, it's a little bit unclear.
But in the case of John Quincy Adams, while he did not enslave anyone personally in terms of direct ownership, there were at least two enslaved people who lived in the president's home while he was in office. So to set the groundwork here, First Lady Louisa Adams sister Nancy Helen and her husband, Walter Helen did enslave people and Lewis's mother did as well. But they were certainly not the only people in the Adams's life who participated in slavery. And we talked about in a previous episode a live show that we did at Adams National Historic Park about the time that Louisa and John Quincy spent abroad when he was serving as a diplomat.
And in the time that they were away that near decade, Washington, D.C., really had this big growth spurt and became a busy metropolitan city. And so when they returned, they returned to a place that was much more populated and a lot of households with much more affluent people had been established. And at that point, slavery had become very common because most of the domestic servants were enslaved people.
And while the Adamson's may have hated the institution, they definitely had people in their social circle who had enslaved labor. They were probably served by an enslaved workforce when making social calls. It would have been almost impossible for that not to be the case. But the bigger issue of enslaved people living in the White House in John Quincy Adams, his term goes back to Louisa's family.
This is a little bit tricky to follow. But when Louisa sister Nancy Helen died, her husband Walter Helen married another of Louise's sisters, Adelaide.
And then Walter died in Adelaide. At that point, had four children on her hands, ages 15 to one year old. The baby had been the only child from her marriage to Walter. The others were her sister's children.
And as Adelaide's health got a little bit worse over time, John Quincy and Louisa took two of the children, Mary and Johnson, into their home.
And they likely those two children brought with them enslaved servants that they had inherited from their father, John Quincy Adams reference to, quote, Holsey, the black boy belonging to Johnson, Helen and his diary that February of eighteen twenty eight. And that entry, sadly, marks Hoess death from consumption. Also mentions the Holsey had been living with them for several years and the second record of an enslaved person in the John Quincy Adams White House involves a woman named Rachel Clark.
So when Mary Katherine, Helen, Mary Louisa and John Quincy son John Adams, the second in 1828, Mary filed manumission papers for Rachel Clark that same day. And it is likely that Rachel had moved into the Adams home with Mary. This lines up with an 1820 census record that mentions an enslaved girl of 14 living in the household.
The exact reasons for Rachel's manumission on the day of Mary's wedding are really a matter of speculation. It could have been a condition of the marriage for the Adams is whether it was a moral issue or even just one of public image. And it also could have been a matter of legality. Mary may not have had the power to divest herself of her enslaved help until a marriage or a certain age, according to the terms of the inheritance. So even in the case of a family that was outspoken against the institution of slavery, there was a deep complexity to their relationship with the institution.
Yeah, there's also speculation that because they were going after Andrew Jackson so hard for his participation in slavery that it was like this. You got to get rid of this. This is not a good for us. President Zachary Taylor was the last president to enslave people while in office when he died in 1850. The free black population of Washington, D.C. had grown considerably. It was at that point nearly double that of the enslaved black population. Slavery was not abolished in the nation's capital for another 12 years.
That was marked by the Emancipation Act of 1862. Not the most up with people topic no, but I think it's so important because I feel like as our country is coming to terms with a lot of problems that have been here involving racism that stem from this period of time, like we have to acknowledge that the very foundations literally of a government that was founded on the idea of freedom were laid by people who were not free. Right. I don't want to mess with anybody's love of a historical figure, but we got to acknowledge this stuff always super important.
Everybody's complicated. No one is all good or all evil. That's what history is.
Yeah. So I hope that is food for thought and that it, you know, gives context to some of what we're living through today.
Right. Like, yeah. Yeah. This is where it all started. Yeah. That passage of Thomas Jefferson where he wants to blame the whole thing on George the third. There might have been some swearing at my house last year to Thomas Jefferson.
Like no sense of personal responsibility at mayor. I have to because you set this up and it's the only way I'm going to function. Yeah, I'm sorry. What we've also read some of his other writing, uh, recently on the show makes it clear how he viewed people of African descent.
Yes. Yeah. No, Thomas Jefferson. Oh, you problematic thing. OK, do you want to hear from listener mail to kind of be a palate cleanser?
I do, actually. It is from our listener, Christina, and it is about our Thomas Dorsey episode.
She writes, I have been a longtime listener of the show as a lover of history and especially personal stories. I was absolutely thrilled when I realized a little personal connection to your episode on Thomas Dorsey. You see, I live in Columbus, Georgia, home of Ma Rainey, many times called the mother of the blues. Growing up, my dad made it a point to actively show me the history of my city. So Marina's house was the place we visited and read about many times.
Music from this era has always been one of my favorites. But here is these seemingly insignificant personal connection to Thomas Dorsey during my teenage years. Every day I drove down Dorsey Drive on my way home Dorsey Drive. Honestly, I have no idea if this is named after Thomas Dorsey, but the sentimental person I am hopes it is. I listen to his music and I was hit to the core with how much feeling it conveyed as he had connections to Morenae.
I do wonder if he spent some time in Columbus and walked the very same steps I have. Thank you for listening to this possibly insignificant connection. I love listening to y'all and keep up the great work. You know, here's the thing.
Even connections you think are insignificant mean that you are thinking about history and your place in it.
So I love it just the same. Like, that's I think that's kind of part of what drives both Tracy and I could do this because, you know, it's our research paper a week essentially, which can be a lot of workload.
But then when you realize that people are using that to to figure out their place in the bigger history and their connections to things we've talked about, to me that is immensely rewarding. So thank you. Thank you. Christina, if you would like to write to us, you can do so at History podcast and I heart radio dotcom. You can also find us on social media are our handle is missed in history and you can also subscribe to the podcast.
So you never miss a thing.
You can do that on the I Heart radio app and Apple podcast or wherever it is you listen. Stuff you missed in history class is the production of I Heart Radio for more podcasts from My Heart radio visit by her radio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. My name is Langston Kamryn, and I'm a black man who loves conspiracy theories. That's why I, along with the beautiful oppressor's that I heart radio and big money players, have a brand new podcast called My Mama Told Me where each week me and a special guest will explore all the twisted conspiracies that the white man is keeping secret.
So listen to my mama told me available on the radio app, Apple podcast or anywhere else, that podcast. Dear young rockers, season two is a raw, honest, strange and entertaining story about finding yourself in your early 20s and a lifelong relationship with music. It's hosted by me, Chelsea Erson and is executive produced by Jake Brennan of Disgraced Land. Dear Young Rocker comes to you from WLS Productions and I Heart Radio.
Listen to Dear Young Rocker on the I Heart radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.