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This is the epilogue of your experience. Food is clearly a sophisticated art, possibly the most important art of the 20th century with a rather complex history of theory and practice, writes James Monocles book, How to read a Film. So far in our broadcast, the artists we have had filmmakers, writers, critics, programmers from some of the top film festivals. Musicians, thinkers defining their combinatorial skills. We admit a physical lab have been striving to expand the realm of our world, which in turn gives a wider canvas to the understanding of our experiences.
And also we have tied up with the of media, the broadcasting network, so you can find us on the website and help me to slash the artists. And of course, you can continue to listen to us on the platforms that you choose from other podcasts or Spotify digital savant who will broadcast everything is mentioned in the description. And of course, you can reach us on the what's up? No, no. You mean life. I'm such a fan.
I'm looking forward to a wonderful journey. Welcome to the first episode of our podcast, The Authors, and I'm about to touch the 100th episode in the next 40 episodes.
And I'm like, Joe Rogan is on 1559, the episode as of November 5th, 2020, and I'm like Lebanon focus and the entire staircase.
And just see the next step and the next step and the next step will take me the next step and the next step. Welcome, guys.
I hope you guys are enjoying my Silin snacky episodes as we double it up with our full episodes today in conversation with the makers of Ben, a film I saw a couple of years back.
And I was actually not aware that the co-writer of the film, Matteus Mariani, who was on Episode 30 second of our podcast, was the co-writer of Bender. Apsley loved Bandoola and it won the Breskin Bowl in 2017. And we are so elated to be joined by Julia, Marad and Martellus. Julia is the director of the film and the co-writer, and Matthias is the curator of the film. And I was actually not aware that there are a couple that they are a husband and wife team.
So when I saw the film again, I sort of related to the film much more because I saw the parallels that could have possibly existed between them as the creators and the characters that were part of the film, which is which is a very, very important correlation that gets established in the film, The Real and the Real Life.
And that's one of the prominent parts of our conversation today, the writing and the making of the pendulum by the writer and the director and the characters in the film who are dojos themselves and where do they draw the line between the personal and the professional life. And that is also what is the meaning of Pendola, how a balance is maintained in relationships and art. So Julia Marad, the director of the film Pendulous, she has made short films, experimental videos, commercials, video installations, and she's extensively worked as an editor.
Her first feature length documentary film premiered at the Cinema Dariel in 2008. Her first feature length film, Found Memories, premiered in Venice and was selected by San Sebastian, Toronto, Rotterdam, new director, new films and 136 international prizes, including Best Film at Abu Dhabi, Sofia and Lima, and a second film Bendalong one, two, four Precipices 67 Berlin International Film Festivals and 34 festivals. Cinematographic Go International, then Arregui and Matteo's. Of course we all know.
But for a new audience, I'm going to introduce Matyas. He's a graduate from NYU School of Arts and has worked extensively as a producer on films such as Fish Dreams, which was Incans Critic's Week Drained, which was in Sundance, a drift which was Incans on certain regard.
And of course, his first fiction film, Shine Your Eyes, where he worked as a director, premiered in the Panorama session of the 2020 Berlinale. And he's the co-writer of Bendalong.
Enjoy. How did you then, Matyas? Welcome to a podcast, The Artists, and thank you for taking our time and thanks to Matyas for taking our time again. He was on a podcast Episode 32 as well. So, guys, go and check that out as well. So welcome to the podcast.
Thank you very much. I'm very happy to be here again for the first time.
So, you know, you learn much as I saw I saw your film. But Julia has you know, she's a writer director. And Matyas is the co-writer of the film Bendalong. And that one at Prosky Berlin to 017, absolutely loved the film. But it's quite a complicated film. When I was actually watching it again in terms of, you know, it's got a very strong psychological angle. It's it's not an easy film to write or even think about.
So, you know, I would sort of want to start with a couple of questions in my mind. One being that why the title Bendjelloul will be this?
Yeah, sure. I believe that since my first film started the the English status FANG members and in both films, I believe they started the film with some philosophical concept. So I started approaching the story of the film with this concept in front of the store. And then we need to actually it came to my tears and told him the concept. And then we need to learn. We're able to look for the concept and discover which story we're going to actually tell right away.
But basically, the concept was to think about a cannibal and to think about how a balance is managed in a relationship and also in different parts of its sculpture. And that's because the idea was to think a whole balance is something that can can we relate to. Hmm. And in the sense that we used to say that equilibrium is not to be stand is to to to be in movement and that's to be in equilibrium. So the whole idea was to actually understand this just concept itself and to think how a relationship of two people and manage this balance inside a love relationship.
So I'm sorry about my English.
No, no, no, no. Absolutely. It's beautiful. It's beautiful as much as what you like to add something to it.
Just that from the very start when Julia first introduced the idea, the title was already there. And it was something that was very clear to her that that's what she wanted to talk about. And there was this specific performance by July. And I didn't. But I'm that she brought very early on with, you know, the you know, the performance. I think it's a of breast energy. So you have the energy is performance in which Marina is holding a bow like a bow and arrow and a is kind of pulling the string of the bow.
And and so there is a strange equilibrium where as long as both of them hold the bow, the arrow will not shoot. But if one of them moves there, we shoot. So so it's kind of a lot about about Santería, about risks and stuff like that was a very early image that I think has a lot to do with the choice to communicate that and to try that.
The arrow is pointing to Marina's heart. Yeah. Hmm. Lovely. Lovely. We blew off the relationship. Yeah. And risk her life. Yeah.
Both life's beautiful. It's beautiful to me. If if you were to bitch.
And I'm specifically pointing this out for our listeners who are a lot of filmmakers. There are a lot of budding filmmakers. If you had to pitch Bandoola in a couple of lines to a prospective producer, how would you budget?
You had to do it a couple of times. I don't remember, but I was. Like, fast and I knew exactly what to say. But now I don't even remember and any any any any advice, any any couple of lines, my my remembrance when I was in the city was a lot of time when we were together, we were talking about the film. You would usually talk a lot about love, about the film, about relationships, about how how you would you would emphasize the part about a relationship movie, I guess, to make it more accessible and for people to understand more what what you're saying?
I think so, yeah. And I'm thinking now I would say that basically it is this performance of Marines and life is the heart of the film, the sense that it's a film about how a relationship needs to find a balance without words, even when you are not able to talk. It's important to find a balance, otherwise it can hurt. So that I would say that something like that.
Beautiful, beautiful. Before I ask you this very pertinent question and a prominent question of the podcast that Viju Douglas chose to be flamencos, but which I'm going to come next, I just continue this conversation in terms of your characters in your script writing, of course, to both of you wrote the script together, and you guys are getting slightly personal here. And you guys are married and you've gone you know, you've gone through your own journey of being together and personally and professionally and coming from my own personal experience.
Where do you guys find or draw the line when it comes to working together?
It's hard to draw that line. You know, I think it's a line moves a lot, I guess. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Maybe maybe in the film there is the Zimmers. That is the film that they they draw a line. Yes. Yes. I am deciding which part is from each one. Yes. And it's clear this line is impossible to draw because of course someone needs more space than others. And at the same time you need enough space, maybe something that can be also oppressive for the.
So I think it's always something that we need to to discover each day. I think in the beginning of the relationship, we had this this desire to to do things together, to work together. And and I must admit, I was the one who was more like, OK, we should do everything together to produce together.
Yeah. This was their first big movie that he would never produced a film of mine in. And then I reply him that they would never edit a film of.
Yeah, but there were comings and goings and at a certain point there was this disagreement that I think we reached, which is to try to collaborate in creative aspects of filmmaking, but try not to to work so much in my production position. So so try to avoid situations where, you know, I would have to to kind of the limits of what she is doing creatively or she would have to limit what I was doing creatively.
So we kind of try and we don't always get to that, but we try to write, we try to like not not be in a situation where production is involved because that's where I guess the biggest clashes can happen.
I guess that's the way to put it. And yeah. Sorry, Soldado. Or at least the biggest challenge.
Yeah, yes. Yes, sure. And and of course, I see a, you know, a few parallels between, you know, the characters and you guys.
If I'm if I'm not sort of intruding too much here, how much did you guys pull it out from your life as well and put it in the script?
I would say a lot, yeah. It was a lot. Yeah, I know. And be very frank, that was the beauty of writing it in a lot of ways. Yes. Even in a certain certain way. The film was running. The writing of the film was running parallel to our own discoveries of each other. A lovely home.
Oh, we started like like six months, eight months after we started a relationship. So and then it went all the way into the film was only released when we already had our first daughter together. So lovely. And you're pregnant and you're pregnant during the shooting. Oh, I'm so sorry. So I think the beauty of it was to try to to make it so bad that both the hurtful and the beautiful aspects of the relationship would be represented in the way we wrote and what we both know, I guess.
Right. And I would add that I think the the the desire to make the film was to talk about the relationship where it is difficult to understand. Yes. And that is love. Yes. Yes. He was basically our beginning. I think we are like in the beginning, I was completely in love with years and it was quite difficult to understand our difference and where to to to be and to be part of that relationship. And yet to have your individual.
I mean, it's probably almost all our relationships in your life. But I was at this point scoring and we start writing. So I think the film is basically about this feeling, is this feeling that you are in love with someone and yet you don't understand completely this person. Yeah, it's beautiful. I just love that. But it's beautiful. And especially her, you know, her solo performance, the solo dance that she does. Oh, God, that's just it just took my hand away, you know.
I mean, your character's you know, Raquel Caro, if I'm not wrong, Raquel Caro, Rodrigo Boilesen just, you know, just getting these two guys to just perform so brilliantly on it. How how difficult was it, Julie, in terms of the process of getting them into your psyche?
I am a director that loves and we see Rehearsal IV. That's for me. There are many directors that don't like. Yeah, you like just to be live in the studio fresh. Yeah.
For me it's the opposite. I, I kind of think of acting and movie just like acting theater in the sense that as much as you, you rehearse so better it will be somehow. Of course, we need to discover the freshness of the shooting, but that for me it's another thing. And I think in Benalla, what we did in the first we did like one month and something of rehearsal every day almost from the beginning.
We basically were like trying to create intimacy. So we are not talking about we are talking about the characters, of course, but we're not talking about the script itself. We were like trying to create intimacy between both and then trying to recreate some situations of the script in order to understand how those intimacy there talking letters actually were able to move in the body because he's very silent. So the board itself would have to talk a lot. So I think that's was basically what we did, trying to to prepare for the film and both of them and in the hardcover specifically were very into the film in the sense that I character to prepare herself like eight months.
Oh, you need to prepare the whole Dasbach. Yes. Yeah, it's it's beautiful in terms of Racheal Karl and Rodrigo Boilesen, but I mean, you know, I saw the intimacy level. It's so beautiful. But, you know, like, if you talk about suppose a country like India, it's very tough to get actors to get into that level. I mean, we are very conscious in terms of physical shooting and physical intimacy. So how easy or how difficult was that to get that intimacy right?
It was my first time, you know, and you start with fond memories. We had like ones shooting that was like is about an old woman in the 80s and one S. in one scene that she needs to be naked. Hmm. And it was very tough for for the actress. And at the last point, she was like refusing. So you decide to not not show the naked. Yes. To to to have the intention of it. So I was quite afraid of how to create that.
Yeah. And then I was like at the director's assistant director many times, did many, many times. And every time that I was in the room, you need to have a sex scene. I always thought it was very artificial because being the whole situation. Yes. So the way we tried to do was to be as frank as possible in the sense that I talked a lot with actors. We didn't have rehearsal scenes and we that was the only things that we did try to rehearse.
So and it was very strange. So we decided not to do it. Hmm. And but and the whole idea was we talked a lot with seeing this film that we create confidence in both of them.
Yes, it was. I would see.
And and they tried to understand what is the what them the sexual attraction, the sexual attraction attraction that they would have in between them.
Besides the fact that the ego is gay and I mean, it's not about a real sexual attraction, but what was in both of them that actually they they would be attracted to was basically the feeling that we attach in order to to to rescue the scene.
Yeah, it's so I surgically done it looks so surreal and it looks so beautiful. It's I mean, it's not easy. I'm sure I'm sure it must not be easy for the actors to, you know, get into that level of intimacy. But it's so beautifully done, Julia. I mean, it's like kudos to you guys to be able to execute such a beautiful scene. Tell me, Denny Matteus and Julia, what why did you choose to be a filmmaker?
This is our patent question. Why this podcast exists? Why are you filmmakers and not anything else?
I probably answered this before and I'm going to say something different because I don't remember.
But you can start now. You can say, well, I'll be very practical. You know, I, I, I was born in a family that kind of had expectations of me to, to be in a more traditional profession. And then I went to biology school, you know, it was going to be a biologist and and and suddenly I realized, wow, I kind of knew it all along. But suddenly I had this urge to to change and to so I dropped out of the university and I started to ponder what things I could do.
At that time, I was more involved in literature. I was writing poems and I was publishing and stuff like that.
But I and I felt like I wanted something that spoke more to my to my social side, I guess, to how to deal with people and how to to even though that I am essentially an introvert, that was something that I felt I had to work on myself. I had to to to develop. So I guess filmmaking just came out of there. And then I started to study. And the more I studied the. I love that the the more you know, and and it was just a process in that sense of practicality, that's pretty much what happened to me when I was 19, you know, 20, something like this.
And I am opposite to me very, very different. My mom is a filmmaker. Wow. OK. Yeah, OK.
That's awesome. She's still making films. Yes.
Actually she has a film and some follow film festival that it's going on now. But FirstEnergy Postictal and her film, and that is my fiction film, are both in the same section at the same festival, which is very funny and very good. What are you saying.
I want to know more and more about her and her films and see if I can invite her to my podcast.
This speaks great English.
OK, well, one of the probably the woman that has more films in Brazil. In Brazil for sure. Yeah. Yeah. She's probably the longest has the longest career as a female director.
That's beautiful and that's beautiful and is so.
Yeah. So I look and I'm in the set since I was five.
I'm OK with something that they find I had. And so basically. I always knew the sat there and I was felt quite free to set. But when I was five, I want to be an actress. Oh, lovely. And I did it for like 10 years, huh? And I was terrible. Really terrible. Then I decided to do a like a professional theater. And I was in school and I was really terrible. Yet after 10 years and that school, I realized that I like the more about directing the actors then.
So to be was an actor, was an actress. Hmm, lovely. So that's when you you found your calling.
But at the same time, I was already working in cinema since I was 16. Hmm. Oh, I like of local cinema since I was 16. But but I love Physick. So for like one very small moment of my life, I've thought about doing physics and nothing.
And yet no astronomy is fun. But it was very, very short. And basically a people who have cinema scenes ever. Hmm.
Lovely. Lovely. Just just sort of add one more question when it comes to the script, but when you guys were sort of fleshing out the film, you have divided the film to for four act structure. Did it come sort of organically while you were writing? Did you walk through the characters or did you sort of outline the entire structure first? How did you guys go about that?
Well, my memory is that, you know, writing the beginning, Judy, had that that that that team, that philosophical idea, she said. And and she also had some very strong images that she wanted to to to write in the film, the idea of common space that is divided by by a tape and and also some of his work, you know, what kind of work he did, what kind of work she did. And all those things were kind of very early on present.
Then what would happen is that I would write by myself situations and at first I first got a draft of the method forgetting getting treatment, a treatment page at three.
And Angela would be very present in in kind of saying, OK, no, that's not it. And she would take out scenes and reorganise scenes and and asked for changes in specific places and stuff like that and and sometimes also write herself entirely new sequences. And then from that that point on, I think the characters started to to be brought more to to shape, you know, both both him and her. We would see more clearly who they were and stuff like that.
And there was some kind of two lines that started to get established. And the idea that you had this work, which involved kind of connecting to different places, you know, from from from where he was so to his past, somehow these were kind of general ideas that we started to make that you brought no ideas for about this performance, that he would have done that actually connect some city in Mexico to regional. Yeah, yeah. And he would have a line in between the Mexico City and the kids in it.
And I love the whole idea.
So we basically start thinking what natively was was that the reason that he would do that, knowing that David, he made this huge wall from Mexico to Rio just with some kind of line or. Yes. That he slowly string to each other and he would unite this geolocation in his life. And Julia, if I remember correctly, there was a bit to Cirio that he would do it, you know, such a big space. And he proposed that we do something smaller.
And and, you know, it's it's hard to do my my my production sense.
I kind of turn out to my production side when I when I write something, it can be can be bad in this film because there is this image that I had in Fond Memories that Fond Memories was a film that we shot very, very with a very small crew. Hmm. And yet when we in the day before we start shooting the company that the electric truck, the red truck arrived to us.
I mean, it was huge for my idea and then let the gaffer in the gaffer look at me and said, oh, don't worry.
Do you know next film, it will be bigger at that point that fuck no fuck. I need to do some. Simpler. It has to be like two person in only one location. So that was the whole idea of the film. Like it has to be simpler and then matches that, right? That's right.
And he put all the Mexicans in Mexico and people getting the space. The two people was became like 20 people. They the structures, the sculptures became like, do we had like 10? And tones within what we ended up having 10 time, is that how you say dumb?
Yes, yes, yeah, yeah. Then thousands of kms off of my feet. It was something huge. So idea of making something very small. But yeah, but but that's an important point to make. I think Judaea had this very strict thing that really, really led to the screenplay writing in a lot of ways, which is the idea that the film should be accomplished in a small budget and that the that the that the few of the few, I guess, of the film should be that of a small group of friends mostly working together and kind of having less hierarchy than usually films have.
So she had this, I would say, almost like moral imperative that she had within her mind that that she would make very clear in the writing process. And that would you know, even though they they may they may seem not to correlate directly with creative choices, they kind of doing that because that's you you think of an idea and then you think if this idea is doable or not, within the framework of establishing so, so and a lot of ways, I think this was a very important guide throughout the writing process.
Sure. And I think the idea of doing something simple yet with this huge structure and like 10 months of rehearsal is still trying to understand what is the simplicity of this shooting was something that was part of the film.
Yeah, that's a lovely point. Simplicity of the shooting. That's beautiful.
Well, for the poor, we didn't pay attention to the four act structure part.
Yeah, well, I really don't remember when it starts. Yeah. But I know that at least in the middle of the film it was there. But I'm in the middle of it, right in the middle of the writing. But it was like first part, second part to it. But I don't remember if there was a follow up. Yeah. And the idea of even words that I think became in that. Yeah, we didn't have titles for that.
OK, for the actual OK. But I think do that at that during that you know.
So it was organic, it just came as you guys were writing in terms of the funds. Tell me, Matyas and Julie, in terms of the fun you've got to Poterba wasn't more fun.
But but to me is was that one of the most difficult part of making Bendalong?
Because I am fond memories of was a very successful case in festivals. So I took like 12 years to make fun memories, OK? And it's quite impossible to just film. And by the end, I was only able to found it internationally in Brazil. I just got money after the film was already Venice. Oh my God. But when the film was very successful, case at Pendola was like, I cannot say easy because that's not true, but comparatively was quite is in the sense that I believe that it was a very difficult thing to understand it in the script.
Yes. And yet we got and the money and I know that one of the persons that gave money gave because, uh, he said, I don't completely understand this script, but yet, uh, I believe that fond memories was something that we should we should keep giving money to this person. And I think it's just I think it's it was difficult to understand because the essence of the film, I mean, he because the script was difficult, but because the film was about a relationship without almost no words.
So it's something difficult to write. And we did like working a lot, trying to to manage to give emotion in the script, but it was difficult to read it. Yeah, I think it's important to to to note that, you know, in Brazil, we mostly find we used to. Because now we've gotten out of all the destroy. Yeah, we you're to fund that comes through through the government. You know, there were specific grants that were given, you know, and and they would have juries and people who decide this this whole process.
And I think at that specific moment when fond memories began, it became what it became, you know, having one Abu Dhabi Film Festival and being to Venice and all that. People were starting to notice that, you know, Brazil should invest in smaller films, but yet films that have a good potential in international festivals, you know, they of course, they always wanted that. But but most of the films that the government invested ended up not being exactly on that.
And that profile, I would say so. I guess there was a timing issue. So that was very, very good timing, that you had a cheap script at exactly the same time that the government was investing more, that kind of film. Just give an example, the film from the first editor, the first phone rent, the first rent for for artists, films for international festivals. Well, like the time that we had like four years of rent and the film won the first Forestier.
Yeah. So so the government had just opened this line that was specific for art films, for international festivals. And since Julia had this track record of having done some memories, I think it was quite good timing that, you know, they could invest in the film over there.
Right. Right. You know, Julian, much as I often I often sort of contemplate this question I ask is to a lot of, you know, my other filmmaker friends who are working in different spaces in films like arthouse or more commercial space.
This is a difficult film to write. This is a difficult film to execute. And this is difficult for them to understand for an audience.
You know, do you at times feel and I feel this a lot of them asking a question that when you have a complicated film like this and which is deep and which is beautiful, do what they do at times, feel that you have an audience which should be much more than what you think they are right now.
Oh, I think we deal with this very differently, I'd say, yeah, it's probably one of the biggest differences between us in that sense. If you want to talk a little bit about it, how do we do that?
Do you think there's a way to increase an audience for a film like Bendalong?
I think that there is many ways. I think all the ways depends on government, OK, in the sense that it's basically about education. And I'm not saying it can sound pretentious, but I'm not saying that fornicated people would understand that it has nothing to do with that. Yes, but it's true that if we have no indications that look for diversity, cultural diversity, we will only see the same things. Yes. So I believe that government needs to to act in this specifically a way to look culture in the sense that we need to to to invest, opening the diversity of the public, because otherwise money will talk in the sense that, of course, we are we are.
Hando, uh, structure that there is a lot about money. Right. It's a lot about Paea. So to to to to be to have any strength to battle a huge fat, publish an advertisement. OK, yeah.
Being humble, it's the only way to do it is like a paying station in the diversity of the culture, because I think that would make people looking for more and more. But of course it's something that's quite difficult at this point that we're all going to be dealing with these huge companies that will will define with artificial intelligence, but we will define what we are looking for. Yeah.
So I think we are in a very moment that is so huge challenge for this group that I kind of agree with what you say. But what I mean in the sense that we are very different in that sense is that I feel I have more of let's say I'm I'm more seduced by by by mass mass narrative, sheer mass production. So I find it quite incredible how those things are built and how so many people and and I feel like that's something that interests me in a way.
And I think Julia has, I would say, such unwavering commitment to her own subjectivity. Yes. It's very, very beautiful to see. But but it kind of excludes her from maybe correct me if I'm wrong, but if you exclude you from from jubilating to much of the mass media, you know. Yeah. You have mass media. I would agree. I kind of believe that I would I will be able to talk more to people if I am more frank with my subject, too, because I think somehow that's what I am able to to give to people.
So so I kind of think that as much as personal and intimacy and and intentional of the film will be, the more I will talk.
But of course I will only talk to people who are open to ideas or interest to this kind of intimacy. So so that's like and something that has two two sides to them. And I think that they will only be able to talk if I have juice. But I was looking for this. They will probably lose a lot of people, a lot of communications.
This is what do you because I can't really think about this question of all the other episodes as well, that, you know, as Madea's rightly said, in terms of the mass consumption, the mass media, the you know, and, you know, the level, the level or the choice of content, if I'm used the word I hate this word content, but the level of content. That's getting created and the culture that it's creating, it's a good consumption culture that if I may say, do you and your film, Bendtner, has a certain you know, a certain level in terms of its intellect, in terms of its execution.
Do you worry that because you are creating things of a certain level, they might not the culture is reducing the consumption of such films.
I think that's the difference between the two of most talking, actually, I don't work for that. Hmm. I attachment I get attached to the fact that is the most deeper thing they can do. And I think that and that's why I actually I believe that culture has to be found fun by government because I'm not about commercials for it, like about being able to discover new new words. So and the only way to do it's like doing more defrosts possible.
Hmm. Matyas, anything there? Yeah, I would say I really admire that side of you. Yeah. And I'm much more forras much more influenced by by the idea of an audience. And I guess that fear of of wanting to communicate. And I'm very I find these global narratives, you know, even if I don't agree with them, you know, this huge film that everyone sees all around the world. And I even if I don't like them, I find them quite incredible in the sense that they even even even if they don't realize a lot of times they're talking about very human things and very characteristics that that really binds us together as humans.
And not only good things, a lot of times they're very bad, but things that we all feel at the same time. So in that sense, I think there is that dynamic that I establish with with mass communications that that kind of makes me feel more creative in a way. While I think Julia does this kind of inner dive, you know, she's always diving deeper within herself to to bring things out, you know? And I think that that's that's probably why we work well together, because we we see it very differently.
And we show and tell me what's the most difficult part? What has been the most difficult part in terms of your career as a filmmaker on The Big Easy for the phone?
Because I think it's a very difficult thing about doing these kind of films just to start even with me being someone who is a daughter of filmmaker.
So for me, it was much easier then for probably almost everyone. But even though I took like 12 years to to to be able to to have money for the film. Yeah. And all international. So, yes. So it's very difficult to to be able to start without already having an important career. And I think that's what we need to work to be able to to bring people, new people. So I think that's that's the most important thing is to be able to to to create situations and political situations, to allow people to start.
And then they would say that now. I think that is many challenges, but one of them is to to deal with the pressure of the market because although I don't really got attached to the fact that I need to do a huge audience, yet, of course, there is a huge pressure of the markets. And the third film that I'm now editing, my my my next film.
And the third film like that becomes even bigger because it has to either make a success or, oh, my career will be, you know, like this kind of pressure is quite difficult to deal with without bringing them to the creative sense, to the creative process.
Hmm. Hmm. So in terms of tell me tell me how you learn much else in terms of distributing the film after the film Travel First told was in Berlin. It wasn't it wasn't like many festivals weren't that available. Now, where can somebody immediately go unwatched to other places and we'll be right.
I think it's a movie. It was. But I watched it the first time, I think go back or two years back.
Yeah. Now it is in Will nationally and I was in Brasilia this month, but I actually don't see.
That's what I that's what we can look it up and let you know that maybe it's because in Brazil it is available on movie and also available in in another local body here. Yeah. But I think internationally maybe right now it's not available and mature and that's, that's something that is really I mean strange because. Yes, because I mean that's something quite new. And this moment of the film A.
But I thought there was a somebody who I didn't know it was one year ago, it was on YouTube because someone had put it and oh my God, one million and then eight hundred thousand people had seen it. Oh, my God. And the distributors asked me for taking it out and I had to fight with YouTube and we were able to take it out. But I kind of miss the fact that the film was new.
YouTube said, OK, tell me tell me terms of the budgeting just for the film, for a filmmaker, listeners, friends.
So were you guys happy with the distribution aspect? Do you think that, you know, the money was recovered? They don't. This is very dhafer. Yeah.
The way it works in Brazil is that since these are government grants, you need not the priorities, not necessarily the recovery of the funds. It's more the cultural and artistic aspect of it for this kind of thing. For this kind of film. Yeah. But at the same time, they did it was sold for quite a few territories. I'm not sure exactly which ones do. Yeah, I don't remember. It was sold to the U.S., Canada, France.
I really don't remember much if you would like to add something there, Martius, in terms of being the most difficult part of being a filmmaker, I think I guess for me right now, you know, and it changes a lot throughout, but it still is something that has been following me for a while, which is the idea of deciding that your voice is worth listening to, you know, like, uh, kind of convincing yourself that the stories you want to tell are stories that that should be on that side of the aisle.
I think that that's a kind of a daily routine where you get up in the morning and you and you tell yourself that and you convince yourself that, and that's how you go through your day, you know, but, uh. But it is something that takes a lot of training in a way to to to kind of feel the confidence that you need to feel that, yes, you should tell the stories that you want to tell and that your stories are are worthwhile and that they are interesting and that people would be would be interested in them.
So I guess now I think I think that's such a sensitive point to us to constantly sort of, you know. But, you know, I sometimes feel that people and filmmakers are sensitive, you know, thinking that is my what was really worth listening to, you know, like constantly thinking about this. And I see, you know, these youngsters, 20, 21, just doing out there and doing things.
Yes. When I was younger, I was very university, almost like twenty to twenty one. Twenty two. Yeah. I remember talking to a friend at the university and him saying, OK, so when are you going to direct our first film. No, no, no. Remember answering saying I don't I haven't lived enough to do a film for me. Yes. Yes, yeah. I haven't, I don't have anything to say yet. I know.
Probably I do I, I develop a life experience to be able to, uh, to actually do a film. So that's that's funny. That's beautiful.
That's beautiful. That's deep, you know.
So yeah, it's kind of easy because when I was 21 I was feeling like shit no half in his first film, which if there was anyone else in his first film. Twenty five. Yeah. Yes.
I guess everyone has sort of a different journey in terms of, you know, how their own growth pattern as well. But this one thing, if you you know, if you would like to sort of at this point, what is the one thing that you would want your audience to take away from Pendola that one thing or one memory or one experience?
Then you think jury is looking at me? Yeah, exactly. I have no idea whatsoever. Oh, I guess I guess that since it is so much our story, you know. Yes. Yeah. It's so much about about the equilibrium of a relationship of emotional equilibrium and stuff.
So I think the idea of having, let's say, strength within the relationship. So to adapt, you know, to have let's say the give yourself the opportunity to adapt. I know it's a moral thing and it's a little bit silly in the sense that this is not a moral film, it's not a fable or anything anecdote. But but at the same time, I think what what what the film talks about and deals with is this this idea of adaptation.
We've been in a love relationship and and how that can change, you know, tremendously how you give yourself to to someone else. And so I think that there is no answers there. But there is, let's say, a description and of a process. And I think that that process is one of emotion on the station in the way.
Would you agree that it would add that's not the only adaptation, but confidence and it's a process of.
Of trying to make yourself believe that you may confidence in someone and that they may be able to open yourself to someone and how difficult it is. Just remember that when you start making this film, we were like 30s, the 30s.
And and it was basically a film for me, like of a relationship of someone who already have something in life, you know, had his best loves these stories, who has Aengus and difficulties. And it's not about out of a relationship ship that is starting from nothing that starts for something. The two people who already have some story, of course, not much. Yes. So it's much more difficult to to open yourself to confidence when you already have been hurt.
So it's basically about that just discovered that. Is it possible to to be yourself again? Is it possible. Mm hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Beautiful. Beautiful, beautiful. That's a beautiful point. I have a couple of questions, which I just want to sort of if you guys would like to answer in terms of the one, what what is filmmaking to you? Well, I'm going to go for safe and say sorry, funny story, said Julia.
Discover my writing. What is the right thing? Is that. Yes, one word.
What does writing writing mean to you?
Blueprints, blueprint orbiter designing. Oh. And both of us want as a right, and I would I would repeat myself because OK. Yeah, it's about it's about discovering new words even when you are talking. I'm not giving you one woman one word, but even when we are talking about yourself in the mirror, it's this new discovery and new things and discover new new new ideas.
If you were not a filmmaker, I think I would be a biologist myself, but I think I could do it.
And I still feel like I could be a lawyer, a lawyer. But I would say like astronomy. Kucher I have a lot of patience. Lovely. Lovely. What do you do when everything is going wrong? Right.
Quite a lot of crying. Love crying. So I try to just meditate. Lovely to meditate and things are great, but that's what I've been doing lately. Lovely.
And what do you do in the gaps in between making your films? How do you handle your do your emotions go up?
Well, we take care of our kids. I guess we have two kids. Oh my God. That first time we have no free time whatsoever. We were always taking care of them. And it's a wonderful thing. It's not I'm not saying it's something that that not only a chore, it is a chore, but it's not only a chore dream and be loved and tremendously. Absolutely. Absolutely.
I'm not going to hold you guys any more. It's been an hour of your time and I've taken.
So you can add something. Yes, please. To add something political. Oh, yes, please. Yes, please. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. No. Just because I had been this lovely talk about creative's and it was being very, very good and make us believe I can say is remember how good it is about creative. But at the same time we are in a very difficult situation and a very difficult moment. Where the are in Brazil is I mean, I just talk a little bit about that because in Brazil it's like falling.
And. And I think that I just want to add that actually it's quite difficult at this point to talk all about the creative process because we're probably not going to have any other opportunity to to do films. So but it was important in Brazil. Yeah, I would say that Brazil film filmmaking itself has been set back, you know, more than a decade by the post-modern government. And it is very bittersweet to remember, A, because that was a time where we would look forward and feel like, you know, we had such a strong system put in place that Brazilian films like Vendola could be made for years to come, decades to come even.
And and since then, we we had this very fast and sudden dissolution of the whole system that supported films like Pantalla. And that means that even if both in our lives, even if we are able to to get a president who is more in tune with cultural growth, I think it will still take a long time for Brazilian films to recover. So that that is a very important point that you brought up, I guess. Sure.
And I sort of have one more question before I let you guys go. So the film has had a certain journey, Bandoola and even Matyas, the film that, you know, he was his film director of film Shininess Januaries, had a certain journey after all these years. Do you find yourself in a better position to command your funds or has your process become easier to make films?
I guess because of the situation in Brazil there in the sense that we developed our whole careers kind of and our reputation within a system that doesn't exist anymore, you know, so so it is very hard right now to to kind of think of ways forward and imagine exactly what what we could do and vote for Julia. We feel that if we are to shoot films in the next few years, it probably be with foreign funds, you know, not Brazilian ones.
So that is a certain reinvention. We'll have to go to, you know, to be able to access those funds and have people know world work and all of that. So right now, it feels like it's more difficult than ever in a way. So it doesn't feel easier, I guess.
But I do agree completely. But at the same time, I think I'm glad that if it was not because of Sonata. Yes, for sure. The fact that we already have a career makes things much easier. And that's why I think the government needs to look for the new people. Is it much easier to to be able to.
Do to to demand a grant when you already have a film that made a good career with something else, you know, maybe know, just let us know when you can organize ourselves to kind of if you feel something was missing, you know, just let us know. OK, OK.
Matthias, thank you for for saying that. And thank you for saying that last time as you're the only person who says that.
You know, for me, I think the most important to take at least that I have from this episode is one when Julius's said that you tend to make the film was to talk about the relationship aspect. That's difficult to talk. That's something I think I think none of us can relate to. And of course, the part that how Eli is going to dictate the future of creativity is something that we need to ponder upon algorithms. And what I say is that one of the most difficult part for him being a filmmaker is to constantly think that what he's putting out there isn't worth putting out there.
And of course, this is the festive week in India where we are going to be celebrating one of the most amount of festivals called Diwali. So happy Diwali, guys, if you are celebrating and a lot of people go back home to be with their families, their loved ones, if you're traveling, be safe and travel safe and maybe your light. So take care and have a great weekend and have a great week ahead.
Oh, oh, oh.