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Hey, folks, Ben Shapiro here, don't miss our latest episode of Daily Wire backstage. Join me. Andrew Klavan, Michael Knowles and Jeremy Boring. As we cover the top stories in politics and pop culture with enough laughs and insights to get you through these insane news cycles. Take a listen.
Politicians pander to protesters as police persist and preventing perpetual pandemonium in Portland. The pandemic precipitates preposterous presumptions. And go by Ben's book. This is The Daily Wire backstage. Welcome to The Daily Wire backstage go by Ben's Book Edition. I'm Jeremy Boring. Known around these parts as your friendly neighborhood God King. And we're glad that you have tuned in. Is America past the point of makeup sex? Can Donald Trump claw his way back in the polls? Was Portlandia actually a documentary?
Ben covers all of this and more in his book. How Did It for America? In three easy steps. If you don't have one. I've said it twice. Go by this book. I'm joined today, of course, by the man himself, Petrovitch Barot, also by Andrew Claiborne and Michael Knowles, one of whom has actually written other books, and the other who has outsold both also by the lovely Elysha Krauss who who's with us. Be a satellite.
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So I've been trying to figure out I was on this trip down to Texas and someone asked the question, you know, are you an Internet celebrity, as people will often ask? And I thought about my my Twitter following, which has grown but has still not gotten to the goal that I set in life when I was a small child. And my father said, what do you want to be when you grow up? And I said, I want to have a hundred thousand Twitter followers.
And he said, your life is going to be filled with disappointment, kid. And he was so far, it turns out that he's and also what's Twitter? You know, don't ruin my story, Ben, but I've been looking for an answer to this question. Does my life have any meaning? And then I found Ben's book had a story, America in Three Easy Steps.
And I realized nothing has meaning to could be filled with the kind of optimism that I.
If you are to read this book, Ben, since I went ahead and named the whole episode after your book, tell us just a little bit about it. Let me tell you about this book. So here's the here's the deal. The basic thesis of the book is that the battle in the United States right now is not exactly left versus right, although it largely mirrors that it's between people like Paul Unionist's and people who I called disintegrations. Unionists are people who believe that the country ought to remain one unified body, and they believe that there are certain ties that bind us together, namely philosophy, culture and history.
The philosophy of the American founding that is suggested in the Declaration of Independence that all men are created equal, endowed by their creator with inalienable rights, protected by a government of limited powers, and that if that government should choose to exceed its powers, then it would lose its reason for being. That was the core philosophy of the United States. And then that was preserved by a system of checks and balances and federalism created by the Constitution. That was the core philosophy.
Then there was the core culture of the United States, which was a culture that valued social institutions, inculcating virtue like church and family as a culture of entrepreneurship and adventure, the culture of the pioneers, people who are pushing over Hill and Dale in order to open new. This does, in the human experience, a culture of tolerance for other peoples rights, even though you may not agree with how I speak. You acknowledge that I do have the right to say what I am saying, but also a culture of militant defense of those rights that if the government were to overstep its boundaries, they would get a stern warning.
And finally, a shared history. The idea that we are all part of the same history, the same historic stream, even though American history obviously has victims and villains, even though American history has horrible periods, even though American history has significant periods in which many people in the United States strayed from founding principle, the actual story of the United States, not 16 19, the actual story of the United States of 1776, United States was founded on true, eternally good principles.
And the story of the United States is about how we have attempted to fulfill those principles increasingly well over time and extend the promises that were made in the Declaration of Independence to more and more human beings over a period of time. So black and white Americans are part of that story. Black Americans heroically overcoming Jim Crow and slavery, white Americans helping them do so and overcoming their own innate sin in all of this and moving toward those founding principles. So that is the unionist philosophy, culture and history.
And all of those elements are being disintegrated purposefully by people like called disintegration. As people who wish to see the country fall apart. I believe that America's philosophy is a lie, was a lie when it was written so openly stated by the members of the 16 19 project, people who believe that all men are created equal. It's actually just a cover for power politics. Because if we treat everybody equally under the law. What about people who are not as well-off?
What about people who are not as well situated? We have to have injustice under the law in order to achieve, achieve group or social justice. The culture of the United States is inherently bad. The culture of adventure and entrepreneurship is actually a culture of exploitation and cruelty to others. The culture that says that we have to respect your rights is really about me wanting bad people to win, because if I really didn't want those people to win, I wouldn't respect their rights.
The culture of valuing social institutions, churches are bad because they cram down social values upon you. Family is bad because families and exploitative institution. And finally, the history of the United States is not the story of triumph over innate and universal human sin. The story of America is that America was founded in human sin and it has merely deepened and broadened that sin over time to the point where all the institutions of America are so thoroughly corrupt that they must be torn down at the root.
That is the battle that is happening. The United States is not quite left right. There are some liberals who actually believe in a lot of the things that I said are unionist. And there are some conservatives who may not agree with all the things that I said are unionist, but that in large scale is the battle. And we're seeing it play out in the streets of Portland, in the streets of Seattle. We're seeing it play out in the halls of Congress.
We're seeing it play out everyday in the mainstream media and in the halls of academia.
But could you have written something more topical? I think that's the question on everyone's mind. That was good. Nobody needs to buy the book now. You heard the whole thing. Very helpful, Kit, to talk about what's going on in the country, which is basically just everything. Ben just said in particular. So I haven't been in the news much this week. I've been traveling quite a lot. You know, as God King, I'm bored of all that I surveyed.
So I thought I should go look at some stuff. It turns out a lot of it doesn't belong to me. Really, the title is kind of give me a false sense of self. But on my travels, I wasn't able to be in the news much. But every time I did log onto the Internet, all I could see was the disintegration of one or another American city. And what's going on in Portland the last few days seems to really be the giant story that no one's actually allowed to talk about it.
If I'm near a TV, I don't see anything about Portland. I'm on the Internet. The only way I hear anything about it. Michael, tell us a little bit of it. Catch me up. What's up?
So everything you think is happening, like if you were to have a fevered nightmare. That's what's happening. It's happening in Portland. And there's this big debate now because you've had these these insurrectionists in Portland attacking a federal courthouse and other places as well. They look like a truly an armed militia. And so federal troops have come in and buy troops. I should be more specific. I'm talking about the Department of Homeland Security. This has raised big, big debate.
Should these federal agents be able to come in? There's a lot of lies that are going on about this. The left is saying that the federal agents have no right to do this. Of course they do. One of the reasons we have DHS in the first place is to protect federal property. They're saying that the federal agents are not allowed to go, for instance, arrest people who are committing crimes on federal property, but then leave that property.
That's also not true. It's very clear from U.S. code that they are absolutely allowed to to pursue those individuals. They're saying that the federal agents are un uniformed. They're not saying who they are. That is also not true. They're wearing uniforms, clearly says they're in DHS and actually have agent numbers. So you can even identify the individual agents. So typically, a lot of lies from the left. And a lot of insurrection that's going on. And the biggest lie of all, I think, is they're saying that this is un-American.
You know, it's it's Hitler esque to send in federal troops to put down this insurrection. That is absurd. There is an American history of putting down insurrections that goes back to 1787, goes back all the way to Shay's rebellion. And actually, one of the reasons we have our Constitution is because the Articles of Confederation were not strong enough to efficiently put down that insurrection. And so one of the reasons we got the Constitutional Convention right after Shays Rebellion was in order to beef up that power.
And fortunately, finally, people are restoring a little bit of order to the streets. So what about the politics of a draw? It seems to me that the president slow to act on some of the things that have taken place in America's cities during the sort of Black Lives Matter riots that have been taking place. Now he is acting. He's sending in federal troops to protect federal property. But there's a risk. Right. The risk is that going into the election, one risk is you look like you've lost control of the country.
The other risk is that you look like you're a totalitarian, which sort of plays into the narrative that the left has painted of the president really since before he even took office. How do you think that shakes out for the president?
I think the bigger risk is doing nothing, frankly, even though a lot of people on the right are just saying, let these cities burn their Democrats, that he's suffering from Democrat policies, let them go. I think that's wrong. Trump has got to show that he's going to do something that is going to take care of the country and not let the cities go. I think this has been one of Trump's best weeks. And of course, obviously it goes unreported because anything Trump does that's positive goes unreported.
But I think if he can actually he's he's very far back in the polls. And I think he knows it. And I think he acted to fire his campaign manager. And right after that, he suddenly became a really different candidate. Now we've got the question, you know, the 64000 dollar question. Does he have the discipline to maintain? Doing what he did this week, he suddenly took a new tone on the Chinese flu. He suddenly took it seriously.
He came out, he was very sober. He was very direct. He actually had facts in front of him. And he used those facts and he started to move against these cities. You cannot have cities devolving into chaos. And if you really want to know whether this is good for Trump or not. All you have to do is look at the fact that the minute Trump threatens to add, the mayors and governors suddenly act before he can get there.
So you suddenly have in Portland, they declare a riot after something like fifty six days of earning and vandalism and violence. Suddenly it's a riot when Trump says you're going to send in the troops. The same thing happened in Seattle with their charge. The same thing happened in New York. They closed the charge. Been open in front of city hall all this time. The minute he threatened. So the left knows that this is not a good look for them, but they can blame it on Trump until he acts.
And the minute he acts, they've got to shut it down. So I think this was a great week for Trump. You know, it's always a question with him whether he's just going to blow it all with a single tweet. But right this minute, he looks very good.
So it occurred to me watching the events unfold that you're really only have two options, right? You can either allow you can either defend federal property with federal force or you have to pull all of the federal infrastructure out of these cities, which, in addition to being practically impossible, not no one on the left would stand for. Right. Like, if you just basically said, fine, we'll to shut down the Social Security Administration in Portland if we can't.
And if you're not going to protect it, we're not going to have it be there if you're not going to do that. Ben, don't you have to actually defend this property and defend these employees? Of course. I mean, under federal code, you do have to defend this property. It is the responsibility of the property of homeland security to do so. They have the power to call from other agencies through the General Services Administration, other people to serve in this in this battle against people who are as.
As Michael rightly noted, insurrectionist. The fact that this is controversial at all is a testament to how much our media are just damned liars. I mean, they are just damned liars. Well, I've been very hesitant to to talk about the media as the enemy, the people main leaks. I just don't like the phrase. I don't like the phrase enemy, the people, because it brings up Stalinist sort of associations. But the way that the media have acted over the past months is just disgusting.
I mean, the mask is now completely off. If he thought it had slipped you some with cabinet and look more with the Covington Catholic kids, it is just gone at this point. I cannot trust a single narrative, not one that is being fed to me by the media. If you listen to the media right now, Portland is entirely peaceful and the only people who are creating chaos are the federal agents who are actually members of the Gestapo. Everything in Chicago is hunky dory except that President Trump is threatening to go in there, specifically because Lori Lightfoot is black and a woman.
Everything in New York is absolutely fine. The only reason that you're seeing any sort of uptick in violence is just because Trump is president, not because they've decided to absolutely castrate the NYPD. If you listen to the media on covert, everything that's bad that's happening is the fault of Ronda Stantis, Greg Abbott and Doug Ducey in Florida, Texas and Arizona, respectively, or Trump. More broadly speaking, California just ceases to exist. Also, apparently, Trump is at fault for the second wave that we are now seeing in Spain, in France, in Japan, a fairly trump, his entire in charge of the entire world.
Literally, every narrative that has been trotted out over the past several weeks is not just a little bit wrong. It's not just a little rock. It is overtly false. It is overtly false. I'm amazed that the media think they can get away with this. And, you know, so far they have. I mean, that's the sad truth, is that when you have this blanket wall tsunami, I think that I felt this way after 2006.
I remember after 2004, there is this feeling with Republicans after Bush v. Kerry that we're never gonna lose again. And finally, the power of the mainstream media with Dan Rather collapsing in on himself like a dying, crazy drunk old star that he was that he was basically that that was the end of mainstream media. Their power had been broken. The back had been broken. And then in 2008, it felt like, oh, no, the media is still there.
Then Trump wins. And then Republicans again are like, well, it looks like the power of the media is broken and now it doesn't feel like that at all. Again, it feels like there is just this vast tsunami like unified wave that has been rushing over informationally the American population. And the best case I can see is not even about Trump. It's about the approval ratings in Florida, Texas and Arizona. Do see, DeSantis and Abbott are all underwater.
Gavin Newsom is still at 58 percent in the state of California, despite experiencing a surge exactly the same size as the other states and not having opened in the first place. That's right.
Drew, you know, the most interesting person in the country to me right now is Kelly McInerney. I call the species girl because she's a hot blonde to rich men, spines out with his tongue. But I think what makes her what makes it so fascinating to me is that she is incredibly prepared. She knows exactly how to go after that. She's kind of like, you wish that she would use Trump be a ventriloquist for Trump.
Like Trump would open his mouth and sing right behind him. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. She is doing everything that one wishes that a George W. Bush or a Donald Trump would not exactly articulate. You wish that they would do. And the media is attacking her for telling the truth and being prepared. They're attacking her for having effective notes. They're attacking her for using Tab's and her notebooks. She can find things today. I think it was today. I may have been yesterday.
She actually showed a movie, a video that was actually happening in Portland, and they cut it off. It's like, please don't interrupt. Well, we're lying. And I think that if she can do what she is going, which she can do, if she will actually accomplish what she wants to accomplish. She could be a very, very powerful weapon because then I couldn't agree with Ben more about this. This is an amazing, amazing desertion of any journalistic.
By the by the journalists. Yeah.
I want to talk about that today. Know the number two podcast in the country is this podcast by The New York Times, hosted by a white woman, by the way, suggesting that the problem with American public public education is white parents. So the fact that the media has gone all in for activism, I think is is one of the most important stories happening in the country. But first, I want to talk about our friends over at Ring. You know, now is the time when more and more Americans are feeling insecure and there's nothing more important than feeling safe in your own home.
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I am one who needs an alarm system to protect my pet. I know many people think that your pet is to protect your home. You have never met the chief executive dog, Jasper. Listen, he's more of a lover than a fighter, which is another reason that I'm glad that I have ring all the guys here. Have it been you love it? I do. I love my ring devices because let's just be frank about this. Some people don't like me, and that means that I would like to protect my property.
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That is indeed ring dot com slash backstage. Go check him out right now. You, yourself and your family safe at ring dot com slash backstage. Hey. Hey there, Elysha. What's your read? Oh, just this book. I think it's by this guy we all know named Ben Shapiro. How to Destroy America. Three easy steps. Ben, I really only wish that you'd written this a lot faster, so I would've had something to read during Kovik.
I took up needlepointing instead and really getting into my eyesight anyway. You should go by Ben's book right now. Apparently, though, you only get a signed copy if, you know, co-host his life signing because this one is not signed to me.
But anyway, there's also a reminder to join our most exclusive membership here so you can ask questions of the guys. And I will give them all the questions and you will get their pithy answers throughout backstage tonight. With that all access membership here, you can also join us for the live online Q&A discussion. That's right after this episode of Backstage. That's fifteen percent off coupon using backstage right now at Daily Wear dot com slash subscribe. The coupon code is backstage to ask questions during backstage, ask us questions after backstage and get not one but two tumblers.
OK, first question, Ben, you ready to roll? First of all, it's a little insulting to me. I'm just gonna get this off my chest. You all have when you do your shows, you all get to use your own name as the promo code. So it's like a promo code. Shapiro Haleigh the. And there are no easy CLAVON, however, knows it.
I have never listened. Oh, I can only assume he has one. But any time I'm around, it's either still Shapiro for some reason giving me absolutely no credit or it's the generic backstage. Can we have promo code godkin or promo code Jeremy's grade or promo code? Can somebody give Jeremy a little more money? Listen, it's hard enough to be a grifter, to be a grifter and not get paid for it. I see.
What a waste. What a waste. Let's take some questions. Do you want to take the first question? Jeremy So you don't feel like a grifter and toss it to Ben, who we really know is the boss. Wow. That hurt. Yeah. Better give it. Fuckin right. I mean, he did. He's looking right at me. And he did leave me an unsigned book in the studio and talked about how. Right. Ben, is America's position on the U.N. Security Council reason enough to stay in the U.N.?
Or should we pull out of the U.N. immediately? No, we should we should pull out of the U.N. immediately. We should neutron bomb the building and salt the earth. The U.N. is a horrific organization, always was a horrific organization. If you look at the origins of the U.N., it basically Stalin insisted that the USSR have a veto on the Security Council, which ended any and all possibility that there would ever be anything good that ever came out of the U.N..
U.N. has literally done you can count the number of good things the UN has done, probably on one hand and maybe on like three fingers. It's really incredible what a useless and awful organization the United Nations is. All you have to do, obviously, is look at what they passed in the General Assembly, where every single resolution is about Israel. They're not condemning the United States. All you have to do is look at the UN Human Rights Council, which is staffed by great nations like Iran and Sudan.
All you have to do is look at the fact that every time they can steal money and use it to enrich a local despot, they absolutely do it. The U.N. is garbage. We should have a league of democracies instead or we just have a bunch of bilateral agreements. Frankly, I think the president Trump's approach to alliance is in many ways closer sentence. You're never gonna hear me say again ready for this guy's. His view on alliance is actually closer to the Washingtonian view of alliance than many of the then many of the people who have been promoting these sort of we're all friends and neighbors routine for a very long time.
Right. Trump's view, the alliance is basically your friends with the people you're friends with. You're not friends with the people you're not friends with. And that's exactly what Washington says in his farewell address. It seems to me that we've strayed far from that at the U.N. is the formalization of string exactly from Washingtonian principle. Ben, I agree. I've been waiting for you to say that Donald Trump reminds us of George Washington for many years now. And I'm I'm glad that we agree now.
That's right. He also has false teeth and bad wig.
Yeah. Want to hear. Let's let her awkwardly. Yeah. I'm gonna go on. I'll get it kind of petered out was just just like all of our shows, just sort of endless fighting.
All right. I got tired.
This next question is for Michael Knowles. You know, illustrious author himself. Will Republicans have to lose in 2020? You think in order to win big in 2024? I think that's for not just the White House, but the House and the Senate.
No, you don't win by losing. You don't you cannot win by lose sometimes people. We get very clever about this and we say, like, OK, well, I'm going to lose this race, but then I'm going to win it this way 10 years from now. And that's just not how it works. You're going to lose. I mean, sometimes it's inevitable that you lose. But you have to try to win because politics moves on. Politics is about eternal principles applied to constantly changing circumstances.
And so in those circumstances, you can't predict what it's going to look like. Forget four or eight years from now, you can't predict what it's going to look like in three months if the election were held today. I think a lot of people think President Trump would lose, but who knows? Who knows what's going to happen over the next 100 days. So, no, you've got to win. You've got to try to win. And if you lose, which is going to happen eventually, then you've got to regroup and try to win the next time.
All right. Drew, this question is for you. It's kind of a two part question. Part one is, should schools that teach the 16 19 project lose their federal funding? And what curriculum can be used to counter it, that 16 19 project?
That's great question. And yes, a yes. I think that you should not be a public school teaching 16 19. It's not true. I mean, that's the first thing. It's not true. Plus, it's anti-American. You can't teach your children to love the country you're in. And what's beautiful about it? What's great about it? Instead, teaching it. That's an it's inherently evil. I cannot see how that is in any way an education.
What we need. What we need is a history of freedom. We need to follow the train of freedom through Western history so that that really takes us from Greece to Rome to the formation of Europe and to America. It's an idea. You know, it's the idea that really lights up Western history, makes it different than everybody else and really chose you. You can trace then when it falls off, why it falls off, when it's surgeons, when it rises and what keeps it alive.
And I've always thought that the history that hasn't been written and I'm just not equipped to write it, unfortunately, is a history of freedom, a history of how this idea has stayed alive. Really all we have, or Lord Acton's letters, which kind of are interesting, but they're just not the same thing as having a textbook that traces this idea. And that's what I think we should be doing on the right. And of course, we never do anything on the right to fix the culture.
That would be one of the things, a project that I think we should be fronting and paying for.
All right, Jeremy, the God king, not that many people. I mean, actually, they follow you on Twitter. They're one of the hundred thousand people who do follow you on Twitter. They probably know that you're a big baseball fan and that you usually take the whole daily wire crew to see a Dodgers game once a year on the anniversary button. With that in mind, what do you think about the guys at the MLB caving to the Wolke mob and promoting these players kneeling?
Yeah. Well, first of all, it's it's one of the horrible things that's happened is the loss of sports. You know, the point of sport is that it allows us to work out our sort of baser instincts. You know, everybody is a little bit tribalistic. Everybody's a little bit Jindal mystic. And what sports allow us to do is root, root, root for the home team in an environment where the struggle has no meaning the on a sort of local regional pride.
This is why I sometimes argue with Ben. He's he's obviously a big White Sox fan. And sometimes when we go to Dodger Stadium here, whereas White Sox cap and I'll say to him, you know, it it actually is important that we root for the home team. Like, it's good it's fine.
When we have a team that we love from afar, then I'd be rooting for Los Angeles and Los Angeles as a bag of garbage.
Did they wouldn't they would have taken it all this year if there were actually baseball anymore. They've got such a great team, but it's just the case that that's part of what sports are supposed to be. That's why team sports provide something that boxing or like the Red Bull kind of individualistic sports don't actually provide. You know, I like to watch UFC or I like to watch sometimes the extreme stuff from Red Bull. But you can't root for that. You're not a part of that.
They don't represent your community. They don't represent your they don't represent your they're not your team. You know, they're not in any way representative of you. You're supporting them in what they do. When we support a baseball team, they represent in some way us. And if the Dodgers are a terrible bag of garbage, and that's because I chose the city of Los Angeles Benish, chosen to be part of a bag of garbage community or his parents did.
I don't know all of that to say the loss of sports right now in our in our country is going to have it's gonna have a real impact. It's one of the few things left in our social fabric that would bring us together in a sort of shared struggle, a shared a shared celebration. That's what sports is for. We don't have that now. Obviously, they've made them political. It is also part of this. They've destroyed sports. Apparently, the one place where you can't be in an outdoor environment shouting is at a sports arena anywhere.
If you're in a town square, you can do a different sports arena. What you're shouting. You'll definitely get the vids. I think it's a huge mistake to insert the kind of politics in the way that the owners are right now. My hope is that they will lose enormous amounts of cash as a result. I think that that's what's going to happen. I suspect that people will just turn it off. That's not what people watch sports for. I may be wrong because the entire country is shut down.
And maybe they were so desperate for any kind of distraction that people will go ahead and watch sports. It is sort of in spite of this. That's not what I hope happens. I hope they lose 40 percent of their ratings and are forced to correct because we need them to correct. Because we need sports. Listen, I didn't. I'm blind in one eye. I am horribly uncoordinated. I humiliated myself at almost every sport that's popular among America's youth.
Nevertheless, I think sports are incredibly important. And I think that the entire idea of sport. You know, sometimes people will say America puts too much emphasis on sports and not enough emphasis on reading, writing and arithmetic. Right. But we invent everything. And we we have the military that defends democracy and freedom all across the globe. And we're the greatest economy in the history of the world. Our love of sport and the fact that we inculcate love of sport into our children is part of the reason for our success.
Because sports actually teach you the values of capitalism. They teach you that hard work, perseverance, that overcoming adversity can lead to success. They teach you that you can't rely on rigged rules. You have to, at the end of the day, rely on yourself and on your team. That is an important part of what we teach our kids. I think that it is a enormous loss if it continues down the path that it's going right now. We step on this topic for a second because it because it really is devastating for those of us who are like major, major baseball fan.
So I am a diehard Chicago White Sox fan. I wrote an entire book about the Chicago White Sox 2005 championship season with my father. Both of us have United O singular golf championship season singular. They had one while it was all the way back in nineteen eighteen, though, in 1917, actually. But the basic kind of destruction of all common areas of American life is so horrifying. And it's happening everywhere. Right? I mean, it's not just sports.
It's happening in entertainment. It's happening that basically it is now dictated to you that when you buy an H back part, you have to make sure that the CEO of the H. VAC company agrees with you on politics. That means you have to make sure that the head of GooYa agrees with you about Donald Trump, even if he's already done it from press conference with Barack Obama just a few years beforehand. Everybody has to agree on everything and the corporations.
I mean, town like Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren now. The corporations are to blame for this. The corporations have not stood up for principle. Corporations have decided that the easiest way out is to cave to the Wolke mob and they can make a quick buck by cave in to the Wolke mob because there are enough conservatives who aren't going to boycott them that they feel like they can just grease the squeakiest wheel and get away with it. And it really is shortsighted.
It's quite disgusting. And again, when when they win, when MLB decides they're going to put out like this big Morgan Freeman social justice statement where he talks about Tim Robbins going through 500 yards of foul smelling stench like you can't believe and everybody's kneeling and it's all about empathy and equality. And the statement, by the way, meant nothing. I mean, you actually listen to what Morgan Freeman said. It made no sense at all. It really didn't make any sense.
But the the basic notion here, they note that the footage that you're seeing right now is this is the Nationals and the Yankees both kneeling before the national anthem. And this was their compromise, right where we're not going kneel during the national anthem because that might be perceived as disrespectful. Instead, we'll kneel before the national anthem to signify that America is systemically racist. I don't feel particularly respected now as a member of the systemically racist American public, apparently, and systemically a racist American system.
I don't feel particularly not insulted by a group of largely diverse millionaires and 10 millionaires telling me how racist the American system is. And if we don't buy that, then what? We're not patriotic. What we're not we're not allowed to watch sport. The corporate owners who are doing this kind of stuff, they don't understand. They're cutting off their nose to spite their face and they're running the country in the process. And it's it's gone everywhere. Right.
Because if you even say this, that's political. If you say I don't like politics and sports. Now you're being political and you trend on Twitter for saying, I like my sports without politics, even though, as my friend Clay Travis says, the root of the word sport, the etymology is Dysport from the French, meaning literally distraction. The whole point of sports is to distract you from real life. There's plenty of crap happening in real life.
When I turn on a game, the last thing I want to see is a bunch of vague social justice messaging at a semantically overloaded and could mean everything from support. Black Lives Matter as an organization. So America systemically racist to the completely inarguable principle that black people matter, which of course they do. You know, this is a very good point. We obviously don't want these kind of partisan distractions. But there is I would push back and say a political element to sports going all the way back to ancient Greece.
And it's a very basic one. And the basic political element is patriotism. Sports have always been patriotic. They've been about celebrating, as Jeremy says, the home team or celebrating your country. And one of the virtues that they inculcate, among all the others that Jeremy, you mentioned is loyalty, loyalty to your teammates if you're playing the sport. Loyalty to the home team. If you're going out watching the sport. Loyalty to your country when you stand up for the national anthem.
And. As you say, the common areas of American life have been completely eroded, if we cannot even recognize one another as fellow Americans, if we cannot even agree on the Star Spangled Banner. There is nothing left. That is the most basic level of American unity and solidarity. So much for that loyalty. By the way, Anthony Foushee, you can't throw, right? We've established this right. I feel bad from his hédi, but he's lucky it chose to get out there on the mound.
I get to make fun of you if you throw that out as the first pitch, right? Yeah. I'm just going to say that if you're ever invited to throw out the first pitch hit in the baseball game, just say no. Just don't do it. If you didn't play college ball, do not get up there and try to throw an hour at GW. You do it. I owned a baseball team. One assumes he had thrown a baseball a few times in his day.
If you get the opportunity, Ben Shapiro or Michael Knowles or even Donald Trump has a good run. Look at Internet celebrity.
Well, you never exercise. I feel like if you had never, ever exercised, you could throw out a baseball, too.
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So before we went to break, we were talking, Drew, about this idea of the media having completely taken off the mask, it's been said and revealing that they're partisan activists. I referenced this podcast, the second biggest podcast in the country today, in which The New York Times says that the problem with education in America is white parents. Of course, this comes right on the heels of the 16 19 project. And some great reporting done by The Daily Wire discovered that The New York Times spent over three million dollars promoting the 16 19 project and was able to obscure the specifics of how they spent that money.
Just three ads in six suggesting that three individual ads by exploiting a protection that was afforded them because they're not activists, because they're supposed to be straight journalists course, then they behave as activists. The very fact that they're printing curricula now to put into elementary, junior high, high schools, doesn't this evidence that they aren't, in fact, journalistic institutions anymore at all? I mean, are we really seeing not only sort of the reveal, but aren't we seeing a shift happen where these organizations are now directly engaging in politics in a way that that maybe has not been the case in the postwar consensus?
Yeah, it's it's the it's the Trump effect. And a lot of ways, because Donald Trump hasn't caused any of this to happen. He's simply lanced the boil. I mean, it really was this bad. Everybody has this myth that suddenly with Donald Trump, the journalistic community lost it. But that's not true. You go back to George W. Bush. He was Hitler every day. Every word he said was a scandal. And the system is, as I as I explain often, the system is not each individual story.
It is to create an attitude, an atmosphere of chaos, so that when something actually happens like Hurricane Katrina or the Chinese flu, suddenly you think like, oh, yeah, it really has been chaotic all this time. It's really been a disaster. So all that's happened now is the full reveal. And one of it's not just journalism. It really is across our institutions. We have let our institutions get hollowed out. I mean, we have a legislature that doesn't legislate.
We have a court system that does legislate. We have journalists that don't cover anything, academies that don't teach. And I think this is a genuinely serious problem. And it's one of the reasons you should probably buy this book. But I want to say I want to say I saw this title, How to Destroy America, Three Easy Steps. Well, I was gonna open up and say, oh, my God, it's a cookbook.
It's not for that.
No, but I mean, I think this is we are actually seeing something quite, quite serious, which is the hollowness of our institutions. And as long as Trump is there, everybody can sort of point to him and say, oh, look, this is the problem. But it's just not so. I mean, Trump is in effect of this and the press, our entertainment system, all of this has been hollowed out for years. I've been talking about it for years.
And suddenly, suddenly my phone starts ringing and people say, you know, gee, what what are we supposed to do about this? And I say, well, about 20 years ago, you're supposed to start building, you know, news agencies. You're supposed to start building movie studios. You just boast to start building academies and teaching institutions. And look, the right has not done this. And the right. One of the reasons the right has not done this is because I think our philosophy has been emptied out by fusion ism by basically.
Saying we're going to put together libertarians, religious people and capitalism, and it all kind of comes it's all sort of been about money. I mean, all we've ever said to people is like the pursuit of happiness is about money. Capitalism is the greatest thing ever. And now one of the things that Ben was talking about, about the fact that corporations are signing onto this racist, Marxist, disgusting Black Lives Matter philosophy shows you that capitalism won't save you.
You've got to start with the values. It has to start with the values. And unless we become a values party or a values movement, we can't stop this because we have no message until we have a message. We can't do the messaging. And I think that it really is a problem that has finally just kind of come open, like I said, like a boil being lynched.
I think that I'm a little bit more pro capitalism. Maybe I'm maybe the Ladley pro capitalism. But I actually think there's a slightly nuanced distinction that I would make. I think one of the problems that happens with with the right is that we don't profit off of the culture at all. And so we abandon the culture entire. If you go to if you ask why? Why do conservative billionaires not fun film or music or technology, it's another. Conservatives famously don't get involved in any major way and technology.
The answer, I think, is because conservatives tend to be fairly conservative in their approach and therefore rich conservatives tend to be people who got rich through very conservative practices. So, for example, while I was in the DFW area over the last week, there's so much real estate wealth, there's so much energy wealth that goes on in those places. I mean, famously, if you if you make your money in in in real estate or in energy or in oil, you're in Texas.
And think about how those guys make their money. You make your money in real estate. You can put on a spreadsheet. The steps to allow you to prosper over time. You could start now with very little money in your own bank account. And you could build your way to being an extraordinarily wealthy person in a very meat and potatoes, very predictable, one step in front of the other way. So if you become a very wealthy conservative real estate person, you probably have spreadsheets that tell you.
If I increase the rental rates in my skyscraper by 10 percent over the next three years, I'll be able to afford to do a remodel of the entire structure, which will allow me to increase my rate by 20 percent over the three years after that, which will allow me to buy a second skyscraper. And if I raise my rent 10 percent over the next three years there, I can do a renovation which will allow me to. And they can vary one step in front of the other, c.D.
Ways to build wealth. With the exception of wildcatting, a lot of the energy industry functions the same way. If we frack this many wells, there's a there's a ratio to understand. And so you might make two, three, four or five, 20 billion dollars in those businesses. But you always know what the next thing to do with your money is. If you make a billion dollars in real estate, you put a billion dollar, the billion dollars back into real estate.
So if you can make two billion dollars. Now, imagine that you're that guy. You know what to do with every dollar that comes your way and how to turn that into another dollar, how to turn that into a better downtown in your community. Just don't pretend it's just money. How to turn that into better jobs for the people in your community and all the things that come with that kind of growth. And now a kid walks into your office with a backpack and he says, hey, did you know my name?
Nobody calls me dude. It's. Yeah, man. Listen, I built this app. What's an app? What is this thing on the computer about this Web site? And basically, I put up a bunch of pictures of hot chicks from my college and I let people vote with a thumbs up or thumbs down. And if the chick gets a thumbs up, then she moves to the second ranking and more people can vote on her. Please give me ten million dollars.
I think I could grow this into something where people can really talk to each other, man. You'd be like, how did you get in here? And you would kick that kid out of your office and you wouldn't even know 15 years later that he's worth seventy five billion dollars. And that that app that he built for voting on how hot chicks are became the most important communication platform ever devised in the history of man, because you knew meat and potatoes, how to take your money and put it into the next thing.
So we now imagine some beatnik kid walks into your office with a backpack and he's got an idea for how he can tell a story. That's kind of funny. And he thinks maybe people will laugh. And he tells you a couple of jokes that he wrote into season three about a bong hit. And you're like, what on earth? But it turns out that guy goes on to be Adam Sandler or something, and he creates one of the most profitable film franchises or film companies in in modern Hollywood.
He has a deal with Sony for years. He's the most popular film producer on Netflix for a number of. In other words, there's nothing in the experience of the kind of people who have excess cash on the right to help them understand why they should back these cultural place. Meanwhile, guys who made their money in technology like Silicon Valley guys, they see many completely differently. They make a billion dollars and there is no next department building to buy.
There is no community in which they have invested in. They didn't pick downtown Fort Worth to be the place where they were going to build and grow. They made their money in these very abstract ways. And so they're willing to take bets on other people who think abstractly. I think that there is just a culture. It's funny, a cultural difference for how the culture is perceived from people who made their money in abstract ways and people who made their money by renovating apartment buildings.
Drew, I have to tell you, I have to tell you why it's not that I disagree with what you're saying, but I think that you're seeing something. You're saying that something is built into the system? Well, I think that it's actually a matter of values is one of the reasons you and I always disagree about Ayn Rand, who I just hate. And I think that if you take the value, if you put values first, you can have capitalism and it will be the wonderful machine that it is for raising everybody up.
But if you don't put the values where we wouldn't when Jesus said you can't serve God, mammon you. He wasn't just whistling Dixie, which would have been racist. He was actually he was actually saying, you have to put someone thing for the other. I think the thing is, when we see when we see Amazon sending me on my Web page saying or if you like, the collected poetry of William Wordsworth, you might like white fragility and you think like, I'm sorry, what a key.
He has got to be making the calculation that somehow that's going to help him financially down the road. And he may be right when Oprah takes the 16 19 project. That's an I'm Randian success. I mean, that's everything that I ran supports except that it's destructive of the country. If you don't put the values first, if you don't put the values above the money and we had we fail to preach this as conservatives. If you don't put the values above the money, you really hollow out what capitalism is.
And you have China basically where they have free markets and no freedom.
Well, I think that there is a problem that your diagnosis. But I think that I'm not sure I agree with the. Zach, diagnosis, I totally agree that conservatives have failed to talk about values in markets. They talked about the value of markets, but not values in markets. That makes a huge difference. As soon as conservatives made the moves to talk in terms of utilitarianism, they lost. Conservatives are not utilitarians. Yeah, as soon as conservatives started to say the reason that markets are good is because they produce prosperity and wealth, it was over because it's so easy for somebody else to say.
Right. But prosperity and good for whom? Right. How about this group? Is groups been left behind? Why can't we just capture the value of the market and then we can turn it twisted and we can do X, Y or Z with it? This is the sort of language that both Tucker Carlson uses on the right about markets. Right. Markets are just a mechanism and we can train them to anything we want. Why don't we train them to things that we like?
And Elizabeth Warren will say things like the markets are just a mule, that you can hitched your wagon and it will take you exactly where you want to go. The point of markets and this is something that I've been focused on for a very long time. The reason that markets are good is because markets are a reflection of a truth about human nature, was that human beings are free and deserve to own their own labor. And so people have asked me, OK, so what if the market was less efficient than a fascist economic system?
I would still believe in the market. I would still believe in the market because I think that there is an inherent good, the belief that human beings own their own labor, that they are individuals created in the image of God. And as Locke argued, if you're an individual created in the image of God, you mix your labor with the earth, you then own that labor. That is an inherent good and that is not reliant on the effect of the capitalist enterprise.
It just turns out that this also happens. Great. Most wealth in the history of humanity. But you have to argue that people actually own their own labor and that they ought to own their own labor as a moral matter, not as used to utilitarian matter. So I think reading values and capitalism in opposition is incorrect, except in that people have started to discuss capitalism only in utilitarian terms. And very often when they speak about capitalism in utilitarian terms, they don't mean long term utilitarian terms.
That the problem with Ayn Rand is she assumes that everybody who engages in capitalism is going to think more than five minutes down the road. She assumes that people are going to forego the immediate profit margin that is to be found in doing the wrong thing in order to preserve the system that is going to allow. Right. I read actually does assume that there is a value that you are assuming in your own life, your ownership of it. Right this way.
As much as I disagree with her, her sort of values on capital is when applied to your personal life and your your treatment family. When she talks about selfishness is a value, what she really means is that you ought to own your own labor. There is a value in owning your own labor. There is something good in the creative human spirit. Right. That is a value laden argument. And that's been left behind by a lot of the people who tend to speak about capitalism purely as utilitarian krater of what?
There's also this issue. I mean, Ben, I agree with you exactly on the utilitarian point. And Drew, I agree with you on this point that you need values. We've made this mistake, especially Republicans have, you know, a Republican fundraisers for the last 30, 40 years, which is that the Republican Party fundraiser speech was always schizophrenic. It began with we need to maintain strong communities and family values and conserve all of our wonderful rituals and traditions.
And by the way, we need to destroy all of that for creative destruction that is constantly ever progressing and is always making people move all over the place and not even just all around the country, but all around the globe. Isn't that great? We're all going to make a lot more money. And the latter part of that argument undercuts the very values that you're talking about at the beginning. So I agree entirely, Ben, that you need to make a moral argument for not just markets, but for so many other facets of our economic system.
But you also you have to begin with the human person. What we want an authentic politics, which since ancient Greece means a lot of people coming together and deciding how we want to live, debating ethical questions, ranking our priorities. And only then will you be able to even have an economic system that doesn't completely undercut itself, as we're seeing right now with the WOAK companies who are chopping off at the knees, the very country that allowed these markets to flourish.
So, yeah, I think it's possible. I mean, I always make the moral argument for capitalism. I agree with you 100 percent on that, Ben. But you're you're looking at it from one side, which is if fascism worked better, was more efficient than capitalism, would fascism be all right? Of course, the answer is no. But capitalism starts to sell fascism and make a bundle. Would that be all right? And the answer is also no.
I think when when when you're using corporations, for instance, when you have corporations that are silencing free speech, that are cutting down free speech, to me that is a value that actually supersedes all kinds of capitalist rules. If your company is in any way harming the right of Americans to speak freely in an effective way, your company's got to go. Your company should be just shut down. You know your rights. If you don't start with the fact that your rights come from God, then there's always going to be different kinds of power centers that can take away those rights.
And I think those rights have to be defended because they are holy, because they come from a source outside our book ourselves. And capitalism. Listen, again, I'm a total capitalist. But capitalism has to rest on that pedestal. It can't create that pedestal. So. And if you want to defend that pedestal, you need to go talk to our friends manufacturing.
When the founders created the Constitution, so beautiful.
Listen, I'm the true capitalist. I'll give a lot of lip service to to make sure you only get paid. When the founders crafted the Constitution, the first thing they did was make sacred the rights of the individual to share their ideas without limitation by their government. The second right they enumerated was the right of the population to protect that speech and their own persons with force. You know, strongly, each of us here believes in these principles. Every one of us here, a gun owner and owning a rifle in particular is an awesome responsibility.
Building rifles, it's no different. Rovell company Manufacturing PCM built a professional grade product which is built to combat standards. That's because VCM believes that the same level of protection should be provided to every single American, regardless of whether or not you're a private citizen or a professional. People at VCM assume that when a rifle leaves their shop, it will be used in a life or death situation by a responsible citizen, law enforcement officer or a soldier overseas. With that in mind, every component of the VCM rifle is hand assembled and tested by Americans.
The people at VCM feel it's their moral responsibility as Americans to provide tools that will not fill the end-user when it's not just a paper target, but someone coming to do them harm. VCM also knows that making Reliable Life tool is only half the story. The company also works with leading instructors of marksmanship from top levels of America's Special Operations Forces, from Marine Corps Air Force reconnaissance to U.S. Army Special Operations Forces connecting them with other Americans. These top instructors teach the skills necessary to defend yourself, your family or others.
We love the guys over Bravo Company manufacturing. They make a great product and they actually do believe it's based on the values as been as true with saying they make a great product. They are. They're great in the marketplace. But they also believe that that product serves the ideals that are ensconced in the Second Amendment to the Constitution. Bravo Company Manufacturing.
To learn more about Bravo Company manufacturing, head on over to Bravo Company m f g dot com. You can discover more about their products. Special offers, upcoming news. That is Bravo Company and that's G dot com. If you need more convincing. Find out even more about PCM and the amazing people who make their products at YouTube DOT sites. Bravo Company USA. Here we imitate masculinity by having men smoke cigars there. They just do masculinity by making firearms and smoking cigars and smoking cigars.
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Does that code work for people that work at the company? Just asking for writing. A reminder to join our most exclusive membership here. Are you like me? You like exclusive things? Well, turns out even at the Daily Wire, we've a very exclusive membership. Here is our all access here. And you can join us for a live online Q&A discussion right after this episode of Backstage. Using that code that Jeremy doesn't love because it doesn't have his name in it.
Backstage, it's the name of his show, though, and that code will get you 15 percent off on using the code backstage with two tumblers de la Wired.com slash subscribe code backstage for 15 percent, off for the very exclusive all access membership. Go and do it now because we stopped time to ask the guys your questions and get answers from them. First question goes to Ben Shapiro. Hi.
I just want to say, I mean, I know it's our show. It's just that you guys also have your show. It's my show.
I guess in a way, they're on my show. You're the executive producer of all of the shows. I mean, your name pops up on every single one. It's something. Yeah. You go. The man behind the curtain. All right, Ben, how would you handle the concentration camp situation in China? And should there be more sanctions from the United States? And when is the world really morally culpable without taking direct intervention? And why hasn't more action been taken?
So like a four part question. But I think it's really good.
Yeah, that was a lot. So when it comes to when it is a country responsible for taking a direct humanitarian intervention. My general rule of thumb is if the risk is low and the benefit is high, then you should do it. The risk obviously is not low. If you're going to talk about bombing China over this, then the question becomes, are you really willing to basically start World War three at this point in time? And the answer, there is no for pretty much everybody involved.
I mean, China is the world's most populous countries. India now has India passed them by India, China, maybe the second most populous country and planner. In any case, a billion people over in China with an incredibly large army and significant capacity to do Americans harm, starting a war with China would be a mistake. Does that mean that you have to abandon people to their fate? Absolutely not. We should be engaging with the Chinese government exactly the way we engage with the USSR, which is say we should cut them off at the knees economically.
We should recognize them for exactly the threat they are, globally speaking. They are an evil dictatorship, a full on evil dictatorship, not merely for what they're doing to the wiggers, shaving heads and sending people on trains to concentration camps where they forced them into slave labor and or sterilized them. But what they've done to Hong Kong and subjecting a free people to the predations of absolute communistic tyranny and the rest of the world, shrugging and yawning is an unbelievable chastisement of the idea that the West was ever willing to stand up for the freedom of anybody in that region.
People are going to take it directly on the roads are the folks over in Taiwan, which is why the United States should immediately recognized Taiwan as an independent country. They shouldn't wait more in five seconds. China is going to start to shoot. And moreover, they might get mad at us. Tough. The United States should immediately declare Taiwan a sovereign country. No more of this. Two the two systems, one country nonsense that China insists upon. The United States should immediately sanction pretty much any business that is currently run by the Chinese government.
And if the United States wants to take measures to prevent people from doing business with China. I'm not against it. I mean, right now, the problem is that you have a collective action problem, which is that if businesses don't do business with China, they're immediately undercut by other businesses that do do businesses with China. But that is exactly why governments should get involved and they should be sanctioning China on a full scale. One of the great mistakes I think, in history and maybe was excusable at the time because we were at war with the Soviet Union.
But one of the great mistakes, in my view, was the opening of China. The idea that economics was ever going to overcome values has been thoroughly rebuked by the presence of Chinese dictatorship, which has strengthened, become more powerful, become more deep, more tyrannical. With the advent of more capitalism, they've just taken all the spoils of of a state run, basically fascist economy, and then they've dumped it into their own dictatorship. The entire Western world should be united against China right now.
Whether they will or not is anybody's guess. But as the leaders of the free world, it seems to me that we should be doing whatever we can to make it known to the Chinese economically that we are simply not going to abide by their intellectual property theft there. There are human rights predations and there expansionism. All right. Next question is for Jeremy. This is a pretty interesting take, too, it says that we've seen this week. I know that you guys have seen that poll that Frank Luntz and others have tweeted out that shows that 62 percent of Americans are afraid to share their political views.
But does this mean that the recent polls showing that Trump is down double digits are then meaningless? So I'm not one who believes that we can just write off polls as meaningless. Very often when conservatives say, well, the polls were wrong, the polls actually weren't that wrong. You know, we like to say the polls show that Hillary Clinton, well, it was going to win in 2016, but she did win more votes in 2016. And basically by the same numbers that the polls said that she would, the polls were very useful at helping understand human behavior.
They were not very good at specifying what was going to happen in some of the Midwestern states, which came down to some fairly and not very small and very anomalous things that occurred that allowed Trump to win. Listen, I'm not saying you didn't win fair and square based on the system we have. He did. What I'm saying is that the polls also were not wildly wrong about what the outcome was going to be in terms of the human voting behavior at that time.
That said, one other thing. There is no silent majority of conservatives. There's this sort of idea, harkening back to Nixon, that there's this silent majority that all think the way that we do, it's going to rise up. It's very comforting, I think, for conservatives to believe that. But it is not true. The left has won their pop. Their opinions are the more popular opinions, by and large, in the country, in particular among the young.
If the election were held today and only millennials were able to vote, Donald Trump would probably win zero states at most. He would win one state. And lest you roll your eyes and say, who cares what the millennials think, you're wrong about who millennials are. Michael Knowles is a millennial. The 20 year old who you're just hired to work at your factory or the or the 16 year old kid who you're still trying to get out the front door.
You've got a couple more years of raising them. They aren't millennials. There are a whole new generation that's coming up behind the millennials. The millennials are closer to 40 by and large than they are to 20. And they are, for the first time in our history, the largest voting demographic in the country. So the idea that you could have the largest voting demographic in the entire country utterly despise everything that we believe. And yet somehow we're still a silent majority.
And secretly, everybody agrees with us. It's absurd. And we're we're it's gonna be cold comfort when to tell ourselves, oh, well, there's still a silent majority. They just didn't show up to vote. When we start getting pummeled in elections instead, we better stop lying to ourselves and do something about the problem. So with those two caveats in mind, are there a lot more people who agree with us and are willing to admit it? Of course.
Are you out of your mind? You could lose everything by agreeing with us on even the most benign topics. Men are not women and are not women. Is is Bastable boycott ible in our society today? Even more benign things than that saying I agree that black lives matter. But I don't agree with black lives. Matters would cost. Most people working in most companies in this country today to lose their job. So you bet your weary and there are a lot of people afraid they should be afraid to speak their mind.
I wonder, though, tell you what I think the answer is and not just leave you with a sort of despair. You know, Ben said that the government needs to get involved in China because one of the good things that capitalism does is it creates competition and competition creates efficiencies. We produce a wonderful Tumblr, the leftist Teres, hot or cold Tumblr. The leftist is hot or cold. Tumblr is manufactured in China. You might say, why don't you manufacture it in America?
Because there are zero companies in the United States of America and manufacturer still temblors. It's not that it's more expensive to do it here. It is that it is not possible to do it here. We've looked into it. Maybe we've missed one and somebody will correct me to our ability to search it out. Trade with China has been going on now for over 50 years. There are consequences of that change. We have moved a lot of our manufacturing overseas and I know some of you are gonna write in pissed off at me now and say you're a hypocrite for buying your tumblers in China.
But you're going to type to me, of course, on your iPhone, which was also made in China, or your Android, which was made in China or your laptop, which was made in China. And I'm going to ignore you because you're only actually proving the fact that manufacturing happens in China. You don't stop that by daily wire saying we're going to start a Tumblr company. There's no reason why we would you would need to make millions of temblors.
We purchased tens of thousands of Tumblr. We can't start a Tumblr factory. Someone should start a Tumblr factory and they will do so when there's incentive for them to do when they can do it competitively, when they won't lose by doing it. One thing that I've discovered is everybody says that they want to buy American until they see the price tag for buying American and then everybody just buys China or buys India.
Jeremy, this happened. My wife said at the beginning of all the craziness with China, you know, even before the pandemic, after cheating on the traders, she said, we're just going to buy American. I said, OK, that's fine. Buy dresses, buy shoes, buy American. There are only, as you say, like three companies that do this. And even they get a lot of their stuff from China. Right. But the price I'm actually willing to pay it.
I am actually like. I am stubbornly American enough to pay for it. But it's not just 20 percent more. It's like 3x like it is so much. Yeah, we're expensive. So we looked a lot and we looked at what it would take to actually manufacturer the tumbler. And our cost on manufacturing the tumbler wouldn't be 3x, it would be 20 X if we were to manufacture the temblors directly and the machines that we would have to install in order to do it are themselves made in China.
So the only way that you deal with a problem like this is to take some sort of collective action where the people who do what we don't want aren't the ones who succeed at the expense of the people who try to do the thing that we do want. This is my capitalism actually does. There is a value component to capitalism, which is that competition makes makes it toward the people who do the best, make the most. And when you start interfering with that in a bad way, I think you create some perverse incentives.
The same thing holds true, though, on this question of the silent majority of the people who are afraid to speak out. It is a collective action problem. If every single person in America today who thinks that it is egregious that Major League Baseball is kneeling and condemning our society before the game would just turn off the game. One hundred percent of us, you would see change if every one of us who is afraid that we might lose our job for speaking mainstream, traditionally middle of the road, American opinions like, for example, segregation is bad.
Equal justice under the law is good. Hard work is not only for white people, which the Smithsonian literally said last week. Hard word is a white value, that is, or the nuclear family is only a white value system. If we would all just say bullcrap, men or men, women or women, everybody can and should work hard. Black people are not inferior or superior to white people. They're just people who should be held to the same set of standards.
Yes, some people are born in circumstances that are worse than others. Some of those people are black. Some of those people are white. Some people are born with circumstances that are better than others. Some of those people are black and some of those people are white. And the best we can do is make a fair society and leave each other the hell alone. If we would all say that they couldn't fire all of us at the same time.
The problem is we don't. And then we let one or two brave suckers stick their necks out and they lose their jobs. And we all go, well, I wish somebody would stand up to the left and we'd go hide in the corner. It's a collective action issue. When the day comes that we're all willing to stand up, they will have to stop. Even if even if we're not the majority, a significant plurality is enough to put a stop to this.
And rant, next question for Andrew. All right, Drew, this comes from a daily where all access subscriber, by the way. That's why they get to ask you a question. And they say that they've been rereading nineteen eighty four. And is it not so very concerning how similar the structures that seem to be being built currently are to the structures and the procedures of this fictional book? Drew, you didn't write nineteen eighty four?
No, I did. Actually, I did. I was I used a different name then but the. No. Listen. Nineteen eighty four is a perfect description of Soviet Russia. And of course the left always works in the same way. It has to work the same way if you don't have you know, the thing about it is, is there actually is a moral order. There actually is moral truth and spiritual truths. And in order to reach these things, you have to race every form of logic and information that can be is available to people.
It's not enough. It's not enough to lie to people. You have to stop people from telling the truth. That's why you have canceled culture. There's no reason to cancel culture if you're right, if you're actually telling the truth. So everything in nineteen eighty four, the famous scene in nineteen eighty four where they torture with Winston Smith and they say to him it's not that two and two is four, it's not the two into his five, it's the two and two is whatever the party says it is, that's the system that you have to install in order to overcome reality.
And so whenever you have a movement like Black Lives Matter, like up like anything that comes from the far left, that is actually in opposition to reality, those same systems for silencing the truth, for silencing peoples, even their own thought processes have to come into play. Nineteen eighty four is pathetic. You know, they always used to say that he got it wrong in nineteen eighty four and it was brave new world that got it right. But no I think the two of them hopscotch over each other.
Brave new world is a technological tyranny. But nineteen eighty four is the face of tyranny in a technological world. And it always will be and it will always remain. And when you look at what's happening in our media, when you when Ben talks about the media, that's nineteen eighty four. That's exactly what we're talking about. When you talk about cancel culture that is nineteen eighty four. I wish people would read it because it is an absolute exact and precise case study of this kind of tyranny.
By the way, here I will again stump for a movie that everybody should go watch right now. If you're looking for that piece of entertainment, go that that really does have excellent values and has something to say. Go check out the movie, Mr. Jones on Amazon. I should go rent it. It is it is the story of Gareth Jones, who is the journalist who uncovered the Ukrainian Holodomor. And the villain in the piece is Walter Durante, who is portrayed clear eyed as the villain.
And then, Stan, you know the order. Yeah, I'm amazed movie was ever made. It's it's really clear eyed and accurate. And what the what? You know, speaking of The New York Times and 1984, when you're talking about that that podcast, Jeremy earlier that basically said the whole problem in American education is white people. Yeah, I reacted to that jokingly and I said, yeah, white people are terrible and every other kind of person is better and they're better, particularly because of the color of their skin.
Hashtag anti-racism and, you know, obviously a little bit of a joke, except it actually makes sense from within the framework of The New York Times and the left, because what they have defined racism as is anything white people do. Right. They say all white people are racist and racism is exclusively white. So you can't be any other kind of color or ethnicity and and be racist because blah, blah, blah, I don't know, because they've come up with some definition of that.
And so it actually does make sense that you have to just say that white people are the problem for everything. If you live in a world where the definition of words is not what it was today, it's not what it was yesterday, it's not even what it will be tomorrow. The definition of words is what the party says it is. And where can we read that? You read that The New York Times and every other cultural institution the left took over.
Yeah. Michael, this question is for you. If you could construct an ark to preserve man's greatest works of art and literature. What would be the first three things that you'd put in there after the Bible?
Of course, after the Bible. It would be DONTAE. It would really be inferno, purgatory and paradise.
The three parts of Dante's Divine Comedy. Or if you get rid of that, I would do Dante. And then I would do Shakespeare. And then I would do. I don't know. Let's throw like a Caravaggio in there just because.
How to destroy America in three. Easy. Hang on there. It's obvious, like Lykos, that we make it up and be like. Here you go.
Is that not in Dante's Divine Comedy? Fourth Canticle of Dante. You know, I am rereading Dante right now. Man, you have got to eat. I am. I love. I actually haven't really read it.
Nyjer into a bag. It is. It's so great. It will at this time. And I'm reading it in English, so I'm done. And I didn't, you know, initially was in the Italian, of course. And you read the Milton in the Italian. It's it's so great. This is the thing that drives me the craziest about how the left is destroyed education. It's not even that they teach us just stupid nonsense like, you know, feminist dance theory or all these other kind of crazy things.
It it's what they don't. Because the whole point of education is you're supposed to get to enjoy all of these great works of your civilization that you you are simply not exposed to anymore, and even it like top colleges, you if you get an English degree, you're no longer required to read Shakespeare. And so I think actually after the educational institutions completely deteriorate, we are going to have to go to that desert island. And I hope we bring good books.
All right. This question comes from a daily where subscriber also all access, which don't forget to use that code for fifteen percent off backstage and to temblors that are made in China, apparently. You know, but, Ben, this question is where Mitt is right on a made in China. Hi, Ben. Where should this daily wire subscriber get all of their Kovik news? I mean, other than the daily wire, so that there are a couple of websites that are that are really worth checking out.
There's one called Covered in Markets. It's run by a guy named David Bonson who writes for National Review. And every day he puts together a kind of the most relevant charts with regard to covet. And it really is his objective. His objective can be he looks at the data with a skeptical eye. He is not alarmist in any way, but he is realistic about sort of where things stand if you look internationally as well as domestically. So that's very good in terms of mainstream media, frankly.
There's The Washington Post's health tool to blog is actually quite good. And shockingly nonpartisan in a way that the rest of the newspaper just is not. The political pages cover coday, which is insane. The political pages should not cover covered. Only the health pages really should cover it because it's a health issue. And that's why you see kind of idiot reporters who don't know the first thing about even the coverage of epidemiology, pretending they know what they're talking about.
But those would be a couple of really good sources. There are a couple of people on Twitter who are sort of skeptics that I sort of balanced with people who are not skeptical. I'll I'll say something controversial. I'll take a look at Al experience and I'll take a look at Aaron again. I'll take a look at, you know, twice. These are all three people who are kind of skeptical of the mainstream media narrative on this stuff. But then I'll also follow people like Scott Gottlieb from the FDA.
I'll try AIDS. One of the big problems here is that there are no experts on a brand new pandemic. Some people say listen to the experts. No one is an expert on a thing that has never happened before. It is impossible to be an expert on that, which means that we basically we've been left with is a piece of expertise that is not expertise at all. Stay away from other people. Don't breathe on them. Wear a mask if you're going to be in close proximity to them and wash your hands a lot.
OK. Which is all crap that we knew in 1918, right? Literally, nothing has changed except that we pretend that we know things that we absolutely don't know. And then we blame Trump for all the things that we don't know. Then Trump is the god of the gaps for so many of these reporters. It really is amazing that they're constantly talking about religious people. Well, you know, in the areas where science doesn't have an answer yet, you say, oh, there's where God is.
Well, that's exactly what they do with Trump. Right. Once the science is made clear that Lockdown's may not have worked all that great, once the science makes clear that California does one thing and Massachusetts does another, New York does another, and Florida and Texas, they all do different things. And yet the result seems kind of similar. So we don't actually know what the hell I mean, not in New York where everybody dies. Well, yeah, that's different.
That's because Andrew Cuomo is a horrible. But the but the the go to is a god of the gaps. You don't know what's happening. Trump Right. It's unbelievable the religious fervor with which they dedicate their their lives to sussing out the various doctrinal intricacies of Trump's mind when, as we all know, that intricate guys don't like. It really isn't true, by the way. Just quick note on this. I know it's off topic. Have you been following Andrew Cuomo and his fast and his fascist quest to outlaw buffalo wings?
Well, making a restaurant serve sandwiches, everything that they say about Trump and called it that he's a fascist, that he is incompetent, that he's running everything into the ground, that he's micromanaging, that he wants to control your life. Every single one of those things is true about Andrew Cuomo. It's an eighty three thousand times more, including the number of deaths. And Andrew Cuomo is building frickin papier mâché mountains of the dead and then standing in front of them, like Richard Dreyfus with a fork in front of a giant sculpture of Devil's Tower, explaining to people that he is actually saved thousands of lives.
How that guy has a 60, 70 percent approval rating in New York. I don't wanna hear about New Yorkers are matter anymore. I just don't. I'm not willing to hurt anymore. You've blown your opportunity to prove to me how smart you are by telling me the Andrew Cuomo is a good governor. Well, listen, Bill de Blasio is a good man. What the hell is wrong? Toubon.
Two months ago, you know, California is taking care of it more seriously than many places. Two months ago, though, if you walk around my neighborhood and even in outwalk in chief executive dog Jasper here, you would see that most people had a mask, but they weren't wearing a mask. Why were they not wearing the mask? Because they were outside and it was 90 degrees and they were walking and they would go out of their way to avoid you, you know, and everybody gave each other a wide berth.
Today, you walk out on the streets and everyone is wearing a mask. Why? What's what's the reason? The reason is the same. The answer is the same as why Cuomo has a 65 percent approval rating. It's because Corbett has become decidedly political. And the mask. It's not a mask against getting Cobh. It it's a mask of being in any way perceived to be rejecting the narrative that you must believe in order in order to be a virtuous person.
And so you will see people jogging in the now 90 degree Sherman Oaks heat wearing masks. It's not to keep them safe from. Virus, it's to keep them safe from the mob. And that's why that's the same reason Cuomo doesn't matter how many people die on Como's watch. Cuomo has been determined by the party to be the great responder to the pandemic, and therefore he is no data required.
All right, this question is about health care. Speaking of Cauvin, somebody wants to know broadly how can we improve the system? And is it possible to unlink insurance from work or create privatization to encourage better competition, like across state lines, et cetera? This question is for Ben. Well, OK. Down popcorn for just a second. So here's the deal. It didn't seem like it was going to be a big question right from like one second ago.
Anyway, this round the horn has has really stopped it. So the answer is it is actually quite difficult to d-link employment and insurance at this point in time simply because so many people are dependent on it. If you threw people back on their own personal insurance, people would freak the hell out. They would lose their minds, even though that is really the only step that could be taken to really heavily privatize the insurance industry and link your level of cost with your level of risk, which is what is necessary in order to have a transparent and functional market.
So with that said, there are certain things you can do around the edges to make the markets more efficient. You can certainly remove a lot of the regulations that are placed on insurance companies, which are, by the way, not earning money hand over fist. This idea that insurance companies are just raking it, it is not true. That is a two percent industry at best. That's like a good year for the health insurance industry. They make a two percent margin.
They're not raking it in to the tune of billions. And if they are raking it in. The reason they're raking it in is because the government is subsidizing them. But which is one of the reasons that so many insurance companies actually supported Obamacare, because in the short term, it mandated that people buy insurance, which meant that the insurance companies in the short term made a lot of money, even though on the back end they're going to lose a lot of money when Obamacare regulations started to kick in.
And all the sudden, you have to cover all these people with preexisting conditions who never joined before. There are certain things you can do that that Avik Roy has talked about this over over at the Apothecary and the Forbes blog. He's written full studies and what can be done to make health markets more efficient. Getting rid of regulations on state lines would be an easy one. Getting rid of a lot of the regulations with regard to how insurance is done would be an easy one.
If you actually want to make health insurance cheaper than what you have to do is get rid of all the provisions that nobody is willing to do politically, namely pre-existing conditions. Health insurance is never going to be cheap. So longas so long as it's not insurance at all. If I'm insuring myself and I already have a disease that's not insurance that has me buying the same coverage at a discount rate in the same way that if I set my house on fire, then buy insurance.
That's not me buying insurance against the fire. That is me attempting to game the system by having the insurance company pay for the damages that I have already incurred. You're stealing from all the people who are actually paying the whole time, right? That's not true for people with preexisting conditions. We're just desperate to get care. Obviously, what we're talking about here is how you lower costs. So the framework I always use in discussing health insurance is very easy.
You can have two of the following three. You can have all three. You can either have a universal system. Can have a quality system like a cheap system. You can have all three of those. There is no such thing as a universal, quality, cheap system. They do not exist. If you want a universal system that is quality, it will be expensive. If you want a universal system that is cheap, it's going to lacking quality.
If got a cheap system that has good quality is probably not going to be universal. Andrew, is it possible for you to name a member of the media or just in general that's a liberal that you follow or read that actually has some well thought out arguments that make you think about their perspective? Is that one for me?
Oh, you know, that's that's a really good question. I read The New York Times every single morning, and it has become consistently and has consistently gone from being a fair statement of what the left believes to being crazy land. I mean, you really feel I always was called the op ed page knucklehead role. But it's almost more like an asylum at this point when I think of, like liberals who are thoughtful. When I think of liberals who are thoughtful, I'm now thinking of conservatives.
I'm thinking of conservatives who are a little bit more to the center center. I think I live a little bit more in the center and most things and I think that almost, you know, a long time ago, Lionel Trilling, the famous literary critic, said that there is no such thing as an intellectual conservative movement. Conservatism is just a kind of emotional gesture. I think that's true of the left now. I don't think that there is an intellectual left.
I think that there is only an intellectual right which goes from the middle of the road guys to the far right. And I think that this is where the debates are happening. It's where the where nobody's afraid to speak. I mean, I always say, you know, like I said to Barry Weiss, which New York Times I said, you know, you're on the wrong side. You know, I keep saying this to all these people. You know, you're on the wrong side.
Barry Weiss would be an example of a thoughtful of a thoughtful person who considers himself liberal that I do read. My sister, Caitlin Flanagan, is a very fine writer who frequently says really interesting things, and she tends to trend toward the left a little bit. There are these people, but they are fighting a system that really wants to shut them up. So if you want to go to places where you can argue with things, if you want to live in the sort of Dave Rubin world where we're all talking to each other, you really have to be on the right.
This is where the conversation is better.
Quick, quick note here. So just say about that Harper's Weekly letters. There's Harper's Weekly letter where a bunch of people who are sort of liberal minded said we're done with council culture. And there wasn't a single Trump voter on that list. I'm very happy that that letter exists. And until one member of that group is willing to have a conversation publicly with a person who did vote for Trump, it means nothing. That's right. Because. Right. Because that entire that entire statement was designed to open the Overton Window just enough for them.
In other words, like we want to escape the council culture ourselves. But how many of us are willing to actually write? Here's the truth. I know a lot of people on that list, and I know some of them are willing to have those conversations, but that letter is only going to matter when that letter includes people ranging from Noam Chomsky to people like you, Drew, and ranging from people like Anne Applebaum to people like novels and ranging from people like Thomas Chatterton Williams to people like Jeremy.
Right. That's the only time that's going to matter, because either there's gonna be an alliance built between the old school liberals who are not hardcore lefties and people on the right who are committed to free speech. Or there will be no lines at all. And let's just gonna eat this entire this entire state piece by piece, you know, on this point of the where to look in the apparatus of the mainstream media. I don't think there is any place.
Look, I mean, you met like I love Caitlin Flanagan and a couple other people, but I don't think that's really where you look. I think the interesting far left even stuff and certainly right wing stuff you see is on Twitter. It's on these accounts that are named. They're like puns on old philosophers or their other kind of meenie kinds of names. And, you know, you can actually find some accounts there that are anonymous because if these even the leftists, if they say things that are contrary to the approved views of, you know, the liberal establishment, they'll get killed.
So they you know, they they hide their their names. You can find some interesting debates happening there. But, you know, as you mentioned, Ben, these people are so afraid to even come out and speak to anyone who may have voted for Trump. They're so afraid that those those conversations, unfortunately, right now often have to happen anonymously. I just want to point one thing out about that. Harper's letter, too, which is really interesting that it started out with this big kind of liberal throat clearing about how the right is so much worse.
But we're going down this wrong road. And there was a line in there saying, we know that the right is really the center censorious side. Yeah. And every time I see them make that statement, I think name one time, name one place where right wingers censor people just please. Where they cancel people, where they get people fired. It is really impossible. This I feel this way about Trump, who I love. By the way, Ben, I got to tell you, I love Trump of the gaps.
I think that that is the only original thing anybody said about Donald Trump of the last year. But I think every time I hear that Trump is a unique threat to our way of life. I think name one thing. Name a thing he's done. And The New York Times, as Barry White said when you read their op ed section, is one op ed after another saying what a terrible threat to our way of life as Donald Trump and I think.
OK. Name a specific thing. And they never can. It really is amazing. And the reason for that is they don't listen to anybody but themselves.
Well, and that people like Barry and people like that. We've got. I won't name them. It's unfair. Many of our friends who are part of the either intellectual dark web movement or a sort of online moderate centrist. So self-described centrist movement. Even they are like people who used to be Republicans but call themselves libertarians because maybe they wouldn't get made fun of at work.
This is a group of people who cannot acknowledge, even to themselves, that both sides aren't equally bad. The only way that they're able to criticize the left at all is if they first. Denounced the right, and I don't actually think I will. I don't think I'm very good at various letters, didn't do that. So it's good to be fair about this letter. At the heart of a letter, a letter, it certainly did not. And I don't think that they're just posturing in their own minds.
They are just posturing. But I'm sure that in their minds, they've actually carved out some way in which they believe that that's true because they're still looking at a right that doesn't exist. And many of you, Michael and I were actually talking about this before the show about someone with whom we're all friendly to the right. They denounce is not the right that actually exists. They don't know what people on the right actually believe. And so they want to say things like, well, you know, yes, on on the extreme end of the left, you've got people who are tearing down statues and calling for segregation.
But, you know, on the extreme side of the right, you guys have a lot of people who want to tear down statues and go back to segregation to, you know, like, well, no, that's not on the extreme side of the left. That's on the very mainstream side of the left. Like literally not one person in Congress will denounce either of those ideas if they're a Democrat. And on the right, there is no one in the Republican Party, in Congress who wouldn't denounce anyone who believe that.
And they look at you like you're crazy. Well, that can't be true because in my mind, that's what the right is. It's very comforting to believe that they're sort of equal evil on both sides or they're both a problem, but it just ain't the case. Sorry. Sorry, folks.
You know, the funny thing is, is when people get red pill, they first get red pill. They start to associate with conservatives. The first thing they say is do people who show nine. Right. And then you consider the four of us. If they're saying that about us, they people on the left must be all terrorists.
Oh, that's exactly right. Because every time says I'm Joe Rogan show this week and I'm very friendly with Joe. I think she's a great guy. We have a lot of fun together.
And all the comments are like, I didn't know that, that Shapiro is such a nice guy. He's such a human being. It's like I'm the exact same human being on my show as I was on this show. It's just that nobody on the left really wants to have an open conversation. If they do, it's extraordinarily rare. But they actually want is to browbeat people or not to have them on at all. Right. That's that's really the goal.
And it's it's really it's quite disheartening because I really believe that if there is to be a future for the country that lies and right. There is going to have to be a liberal part of the country that stands up on its hind legs and says, I would rather associate with these people I disagree with about nearly everything when it comes to policy than you people with whom I agree with on policy about a lot of things. But you guys want to tear down the entire system.
I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to give away my rights just because you and I both agree that America should move toward a more progressive tax system. That's not something I'm willing to do until liberals are willing to actually cross that aisle and shake a few hands and wrecking more than anything, just recognize that we're human beings, too, on this side. I mean, it's what I've said a thousand times as the happy birthday problem. Every time I have a birthday.
I will get 20 tax from people who are on the left inside mainstream leftist organizations with whom I am friendly. I've offered a public shoulder to when they have been ripped off. Right. I'm the guy out there defending frickin Matt Iglesias. I've called the Ralph Wiggum of the Internet being assaulted by the by the members of his own publication. I'm out there defending Matt Iglesias. I'll get bunch. I'll get no letters from inside. Major organizations on the left.
Happy birthday. And then on Twitter. Nothing. Because the minute you acknowledged that people on the right are human beings, then you have you've humanized them and you must never, ever humanize anybody on the right. It's more important not to humanize anybody on the right than to preserve the rights for everybody. Yeah, that's right.
And we all know the bench, really a robot. And he just plain different mask when he went on Joe Rogan. It was a very enjoyable interview. Wow. Hey, I finally get to curse.
I mean, what with Joe? It's almost it's in the water now. What about like the first 10 minutes? You're like that effing and then you, like, eventually got there eventually or dragged down into Joe's world.
And then I had this feeling of being dragged down. Michael, do you think that Lane Maxwell and will make it to testify and other.
I was under the impression she had already committed suicide in the future. What day is it? Is it not? No, it's what. You're right. I'm sorry. The Clinton seven scheduled that until at least next Monday. I actually do think I mean, all all sort of Clinton Epstein didn't kill himself. Jokes aside, I do think she probably will make it because if if this woman ends up dead in her jail cell, like the conspiracy theorists will take, they will march on Washington.
They will take her out of the country because, by the way, it will be evidence of a conspiracy. So you can't call it a conspiracy theory anymore. It seems as though she's already cooperating with the feds. It seems that she's given up some names, which I'm sure will remain redacted, you know, for for the near future because they, you know, implicate so many powerful people around the world. But but this is like the real problem.
I don't particularly care about Elaine Maxwell in particular, but on this issue, generally, the left is always good. And some people on the right complain about conspiracy theorists. Why are theirs? And, you know, they'll the left will even label sort of mainstream ideas, conspiracy theories. But they never ask themselves, why do conspiracy theories take hold? They take hold because we have no faith in our institutions, in the media, in the administrative government.
And we have no. Faith in them, because they have squandered that faith, they have squandered that credibility. You can't believe what you read in the papers or see on cable news. And you see obvious incidents of incompetence or corruption in the federal government, or very often both. So, you know, I I'm sort of sick of hearing the left complain about the conspiracy theorists. Quit quit creating the breeding ground on which those conspiracies crop up. Jeffrey Epstein didn't kill himself, man.
I mean, come on.
Well, I have said a lot of warm words about President Trump. He made it into the same sentence as Washington in the same sentence is God for me on this very podcast. You say it's real weird that when you go into a press conference at an wisht delay mask, well, let's. Well, the best. I love. I don't know why. Of course, you're lie. What other answer was he going to give? Was he supposed to help you?
Private health issues procuring for men. How about that? I'll be good to answer your assumption of innocence.
What the heck? We need to we need due process even for the madam of the most notorious monsters that we've seen in the last 30 years.
Well, I think that if we can't even agree on whether or not Donald Trump was right to approve of Maxwell, then it's probably time to call this show off and engage in our inner Internet. Well, no unionist tendencies left go by fans. But that was the name of the episode. And it's also a good note on which to conclude also become an all access member. If you're not already one, you can keep hanging out with us right now.
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