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Tonight's episode of the Best Podcast and the Ringer podcast that brought to you by Spotify, where you can change your speeds to whatever speed you want. I mean, one point two guy, you can go check out the best new podcast, trending podcast, biggest podcast podcasts, separated by genres, whatever you want. They have everything there with their wonderful charts. Listen to your podcasts on Spotify were also brought to you by CBS All Access. UEFA Champions League is back as a new home, guess where CBS all access don't miss the action, the drama, the glory of your favorite players and teams.


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Ted Lassos about an American football coach who heads to England to take a shot at managing one of the world's most competitive professional soccer teams. And if you like a show with big laughs and a lot of heart, maybe this is one you've been looking for. Watched Ted Lazo now on the Apple TV app subscription is required for Apple TV. Plus, we're also brought to you by the Ringer podcast network where we launch new two new podcast this week, Sound Only with my Peters Just Charity and 10 questions with Kyle Brandt, which caused a lot of buzz this week.


It didn't Aaron Rodgers interview and got picked up by a bunch of outlets. So while that's happening, I decided to watch HBO's This Week, one last Mohicans on Monday with Chris Rock and then the other one, Bad Boys with Logan Murdoch and then Lathan. So you can check those out as well. Coming up, we have Raja Bell. New additions to the ringer couldn't wait to have mine, he was so good on Monday with Logan Murdoch and the Ring NBA show that I just got jealous and I had to have him on my podcast.


I can't let Logan have all the good things. And then my buddy Jacko, my old college roommate, he comes on from time to time to talk about sports and politics. So he is coming out as well. I have some bad news. Once again, I had a recording script. We're now in month six of all of this. Whatever the F is going on with our lives and our country, I have managed to screw up recording all kinds of ways.


One time I forgot to plug anything into my microphone, so I was just doing a podcast. There was no cord attached to the microphone multiple times. I've screwed up the actual audio output input on my resume. I have forgotten a press record that happened this time I. I recorded everything with Roger and Jacko and this is the first time I don't really know what happened. Maybe the plug wasn't plugged all the way into the Zoome. I'll tell you what I didn't do.


That was check to make sure when I was talking that the green light was going up and down. I'm losing my mind. I think this is like the seventh recorded mishap, I'm averaging one a month, basically. Not good, not where I want to be. So anyway, we had to use my my zoom audio for this, so I'm not going to sound as as fantastic as I normally do. I apologize. I'm sorry. I don't know what to tell you.


All right, let's bring in our friends reprogramme. All right, Raja Bell is here. He's in a remote location in the United States. I put them away from a family vacation because we have so much stuff going on. New addition to the ringer. You can hear him on Mondays with Logan Murdoch. The pod this week was excellent. I want to start by stealing a point you talked about on your iPod because I thought it was essential. I was super jealous of it.


I wish I thought of it myself. I didn't. You came up with it, but I went back into it. You were saying Daim. Reminded you of Kobe Bryant with everything that was happening here these last couple of weeks, but how he carried himself, how he rises to challenges, how he feeds off little rivalries with other players and stuff. And I really appreciated the analogy because normally you compare point guards to point guards, you compare centers to centers.


You compare white guys to white guys like we have. We're always like pigeonholing our comparisons. And when you said that, I was like, holy shit, he's right. That game is the modern Kobe. So go into that. Let's talk about it.


Yeah, he just knowing Kobe the way I did and having played against him as much as I did, I see this. I see a lot of the same personality kind of traits in endgame when he's on the court, like he he carries himself with the with an edge at all times. And even if Kobe was your friend, there was an edge. There was there was a you know, don't get too close to me tonight. Like we could talk about this game is over type of attitude.


Right. And I see that oozing out of Dame's pores. I think that comes to Dame a little bit more organically, though, than it came to Kobe Bryant caused Kobe was Kobe from high school. Dame Weaver stayed and missed a bunch of all stars that he should have made. And so he's got it more organically. But there are a lot of parallels in terms of their mindset, the way they approach it, the way that they will create that.


It's perceived slight, you know, like even if it's even if it's not there, there are times words there and there are plenty of times when it's not there that the really great ones like MJ, you could see it in his in his documentary, but he was good for that. To those guys that have real, true greatness coursing through their veins, they figure out how to stay razor-sharp by either creating something or just never allowing themselves to really feel comfortable with with with what they've been given in terms of praise.


And I see that in the game. And I saw it in Kobe.


Well, you know, it goes without saying he's been the star of the bubble. And I think especially what he did after kind of blowing the Saturday game, which I think partly was that the pressure of just elimination game after elimination game. And they looked tired to me on Saturday. Sunday, he rallies back. He goes 50 plus every big shot. And then what he did in the sixty one point game when they really should have lost to Dallas.


And McCollum looks like he's playing at 60 percent. They can't get a stop. The only thing keeping them in the game is that game is just torching for Zangas is hitting threes left and right. And it really made me rethink, like, what is the ceiling of this? How great is this guy? And then to your point, with Kobe thinking about him with other little guys. Right, because this is a little guy who's carrying himself like an alpha dog and how rare that is in the history of the league you played when you broke through in one year with Iverson at the height of his alpha dog.


This what?


Compare and contrast those to the way they carry themselves, similar in that either one of them would have the ball anywhere on the floor. It doesn't really matter where they are. I see. When I guarded guys, I would like to try to keep you off of a spot, if I could. Right. Like watching a film. Try to figure out where you like to get in. And if I could deny you the ball, maybe get you six feet off that spot, I feel like I've already got the advantage defensively.


You can't do that to either one of those guys. And it's true for a lot of small guards because they just they'll pick it up crossing half court. They're bringing it across half court. So the fact that they have the ball in their hands already is it makes them really, really difficult to guard. And then their ability at that size to navigate in the paint like James shoots with a lot more range to me. I did. Yeah, but he still navigates that paint really, really well and finishes at a super high level.


And I know it kind of sounds like you would expect every guard that's really, really good to finish well in the paint, but that's not always true. Like some guys are better like Kyrie's elite finisher for his size in the paint. The game is as well. Allen was able to finish amongst the trees. I think if I was comparing and contrasting them like a dame, more range, I more wild, kind of abandoned at the rim like he was.


I think Dame manages the hits that he takes a lot better than Chuck did. Chuck wound up with a lot of bumps and bruises. As he got older, the mileage started to catch up.


I think games not sleeping ever that that didn't help. But being a vampire.


Yeah, that none of none of that is conducive to playing and having a super long career and writing off into the sunset the right way. But, you know, a lot of the same mentality, though. You talked about the parallels between Kobe and Dame, like you saw Allen up close to those guys never believed that they can't get a bucket. I was one of the all time Iverson defenders, and when I when I wrote my book in 09, I really went all out because I knew as the years pass, the stats would start to go against in the advanced metrics, all the stuff.


I just know what it was like to see him in person and to see the command of the room that even the court the room, because you think like an NBA arena. It's fifteen thousand people. Eighteen thousand people. Twenty thousand people. There's so few guys who have command of the room. And he was the smallest guy I'd ever seen had done that. He was only five, ten, five, ten, five, eleven point seventy. And he was controlling the other guys and the guys in the other team, his own team, the referees, the referees were terrified of him.


And he played with like there was like a mallis to him in a good way that he just that everyone just kind of fed off it. Game doesn't have to that to that degree. But he does carry himself with kind of an intensity and a passion that it does. I do think it really helps his team.


It's interesting that you kind of say the command of the room, like people don't know this about Allen Iverson or a lot of people that didn't get to play with him. But he was he was a showman. Like Dame is an entertainer. He he's yes. He's a rapper. He's an artist. Allen Iverson was one of those guys that you'll be messing around and be singing Michael Jackson. And it sounds like really, really good. You know, like everything he did, he did really well.


And you could tell there was an entertainment bone in his body as well. He was creative like that. And I think that lends itself to to guys of that stature, being able to carry the room like that and command the room. And, you know, that's another parallel I hadn't thought of.


And then one thing that's different about them, I think by the time your final season. The league, like the guys that he was playing against, really respected Iverson, and then as he got older, the guys that were coming into the league, he's a hero, right? He's in the mid to late 90s. What he was doing and how he was the culture that he was bringing into the league that just hadn't really been there until he kind of cemented it.


So he's going against guys who idolized him when they were in high school games. Still seems like he hasn't totally won the respect of the other guys, which I think is really strange because I I don't know what the top eight. You're going to have your top eight in some order. He's on the top eight. I don't know what number is, but there's eight guys that matter more than obviously he's one of the guys. Why does he have the respect it?


You know, it's a good question. I really do believe Portland has something to do with the like just I love as a town, like I love to visit and be out there, but I think the market has something to do with it. He's. Games teams, they've they've knocked off a team here and there, but they haven't really made the noise in the playoffs yet. And I was talking to Logan the other day on the pot. And I really think, you know, I love CJ McCollum.


I like what the Blazers have. I don't think he's been paired with the right type of team C Allen they gave him. A bunch of roll guys that would go out, do the dirty work, and then you go to you go to town just to do what you do, just offense virtual. So there you are. And, you know, everyone could see it and respect it. Game is kind of a weird spot because he shares it with CJ a little bit.


They're not really good enough to make any real noise. He hasn't had the pieces around him. And so it's a good question because I sat on this couch the other night with the family friend is someone who loves basketball. And we were watching and I said, you know, I think I take game right now over Steph or any other point guard in the league. And he looked at me coming out of the corner of his eye and I said, I know Steph, but I'm probably taking game if you put my feet to the fire right now.


Roselyn, I talked about that, I think, a week and a half ago. And it was the first time I'd really considered it, because I I think Steph is the underrated for on the stuff he brings to the table. But the stuff Dame was doing in the bubble, I'm not sure, Steph, at this point of his career could carry a team in the same way. And then when the fifty point sixty one point stuff that was at a level now where where you start thinking like that, Kobe, the Iverson, like those kind of guys, like I think Harden has been able to do it maybe not deep in the playoffs, but certain guys where they're just like, I'm going to have to win this by myself, but I actually can do this.


I'm not even sure he could have done that last year. But I think going back to the Iverson thing. You know, I thought what made Iverson's so amazing was how little he was and how he can still get to the rim against anybody and Kyrie has a two, but Kyrie six three. Iverson was five ten. And the way he would go, he would kind of navigate these big guys and do use their body against them to reverse things.


Sometimes he would even be up by the rim. The stuff Lillard was doing the poor just the other night was so high level. I mean, he was he was almost making them unplayable and imposing his head like thirty eight points in that game or something, and they almost had to take him out because they couldn't they couldn't unlock it. Yeah. So I don't know if I've seen that before.


He's unguardable when he gets cooking, like there's there's really, you know, if you're going to insist in today's NBA on switching pick and rolls like I would and this is another topic of conversation, like how would you approach that to fill? I want to hear it.


I would never let him have the ball in his hands. If I could ever affect him getting off the ball, I would do it. I would. I would. Especially if it were organic. Like if you were going to bring a secondary defender into the equation trappin it every time. You just I mean, philosophically, I'm not letting Dame score sixty one percent against Kristaps zinnias. I can't I can't allow that to happen. Like, I'm not questioning the coaching.


That's just what I would do. He'd have to ISIL for his buckets or they'd have to run offense to get him coming off something. But if he was ever in some sort of ball screen action, I have to give it up and then I'm just going to face Gardam and try to take him out of play.


Did you ever think you'd see an NBA game? I mean, you played in the league to twenty fourteen. Do you ever see a game about. Do you ever think you'd see a moment where teams would be trapping a point guard forty two feet from the basket to try to get him to get rid of the ball so he couldn't start his offense like he was like the best guy in the ninth grade? A game or something like that just doesn't happen.


Yeah, it's pretty crazy where we are in terms of in terms of guys ability one on one and the space that they have now to be able to use that one on one ability.


I mean, do you think if people knew in 2001 what they know now? Isn't that how teams would have probably they probably had done that to Iverson right there, just 40 feet from the basket, just trying to make him give up the ball? I don't I just don't think people are sophisticated enough back then.


Well, both offensively and defensively, right. I mean, the rules were a little different when I came in the league, too, because you had the you know, you had a true illegal D like you weren't. That zone came into effect as you're playing a little deeper into my career. So it gave you more opportunity to kind of off track and stuff like that. We didn't create a lot of space for.


That was the other thing that was pretty remarkable about the way he scored. He did that when you were still running like floppy sets where you had the two bigs anchored around the blocks and you were bringing in your guards off of those. And Hornes, the action, those like sets always have two bigs around the rim and he is still able to navigate in through there and create offense has become really it's interesting, it's more sophisticated. I'd be interested to know what you think about it like I think it's less sophisticated.


I think they've kind of stripped it down to its bare bones and just said look, we're going to create space and let some of these just unguardable guys go to work. But that could be sophisticated, too. Like, I don't know which it is.


It's more efficient. It's I hesitate to say this. I've been going to and it's less interesting, I and I really notice that when I was watching the game, so have basketball for four and a half months, guess what was really fun, like postop guys and guys taking terrible 17 footers. Thank you, sir. Yeah. It's just like it was just more ancient. There are more variables to a game. I think the late the mid late nineties, early two thousands.


I think the floor was like there was such an impetus to post up. It was kind of like they couldn't they couldn't really figure out what else to do. And it's like, well, let's post up. And I watch these games where, you know, Indiana, which I think it was the ninety nine came they they lost to the next. And I watched a couple of those games then and it was just like slow it down, slow it down, post a bang at the end.


And you look at their team here like you guys should be like going you shooters, you have space, you got six minutes like there. This other version of what you're doing that would work. But yeah, I think in a lot of ways it's just more predictable. Now, I think Dallas suffers from that in the last four minutes. Right, because it's kind of like, you know, what they're going to do. They're going to spread the floor for felucca.


Everybody else is going to stand there and watch them. Houston, at least, was able to bring in that Westbrook variable where he's crashing offensive boards or he's making weird cuts and it's at least a little different. But I'm with you, I, I think it's boring. So that's yeah. That's interesting. I've always felt like there was a middle ground. I you know, I was talking about Mike's team, Mike D'Antoni Rockets team, just maybe two years ago when they were in the playoffs.


And they were kind of the the team that was like ahead of the other teams in terms of like, look, we got this offensive genius. We're just going to let him cook. And I love Mike. And I think Mike is one of the most brilliant offensive minds in the game. But I was like, man, that's great through to your point, like three and a half quarters. Right. And then even if it's simple action so that everyone's not just locked in five sets, eyes on James Harden like they've been for three and a half quarters, run something and then run it quick, get him the ball back, and then we know what's coming.


But, you know, I felt like Golden State did it well, like a lot of a lot of movement. And then, you know, someone makes a mistake and you get downhill. And if not, then we are good enough to beat you one on one. But there was just enough movement to keep people keep people honest. Yeah, I think we've talked about on this podcast before, just that seems to be the fatal flaw that Rockets team where you're playing them in a playoff series and you're getting that for two straight weeks.


You're just going to get used to it, and I think that gets really dangerous when you're playing somebody and they're used to what you're doing. I thought that, you know, those sound that you're on the mid 2000s, which to me is like the best version of this offense, because they could you could do the high screens or the Maehara, you could do this. You could spread out for Nash and he could find shooters. There were all kinds of different variations to it, but it was it just felt more unpredictable to me.


Then some of the stuff we're seeing now, it's just like, well, this makes the most sense statistically. So we're just going to keep doing this. Yeah, we had just enough. And that's why, you know, again, my experience with Mike, like I know he's got some of this, like I wasn't a guy who could create like I couldn't really have the ball in my hands in a in a situation, whether it be pick and roll or ISO and get you a quality bucket.


It wasn't my skill. So Mike knew this and he'd run six plays a game where he'd bring me off some type of screen and action and I like to catch a shoot. And if I got that advantage, I could create a play. So those are just little wrinkles that we had in our stuff. Now our bread and butter was getting up and down the court, Shawn Marion to the front of the rim, dragging with Steve or Steven, pick and roll and a bunch of shooters.


But when push came to shove, if he had to call my number, he knew what package they were going to run for me. And you know Borst Yeah. There was stuff in the playbook for Börse and Leandro Barbosa and so we could get into little wrinkles of things that would get us a bucket for someone other than Steve or Mari. And it just made us really dangerous because it was unpredictable. What was who did the best job of kind of throttling what you guys were trying to do back then?


And what and what did they do specifically? It was it's a great question. It was the Spurs and the Mavericks. And what they did was they didn't allow any of us to get good looks collapsing on Steve. And Steve was a reluctant shooter, like a great shooter and a great scorer. But he was raised in a day and age where point guards didn't dominate the scoring stat in the box score. So it was always a reluctant second option for Steve, and they put the onus squarely on him to score.


And a lot of nights he did and scored and we won. But they stuck to their guns that over the course of six or seven games, getting rid of my ten points and Elba's fifteen and Borse is thirteen and Tim Thomas is twelve, like Steve in a more wouldn't be enough. And they both of those teams did that really well. You know, I had him I had this book, a basketball podcast I was doing last year, and I had him come.


And first of all, I forced him to watch the game or Robert or shoves him into the Steve thing. Yeah, I mean, I watch it. He watched the whole game. It did he admit what he did that he flat. Yeah. Did he admitted. Yeah. He said he caught it and embellishment. Well it got me running over there and then everybody is offended at it.


But he was saying he hadn't watched any of those games. You know, he doesn't he's one of those guys. He does go backwards. So he watched that game. And, you know, he's in it. He's totally bummed out. He texted me after, like, I need a drink. But the big takeaway that he had from watching it was like I didn't shoot enough. I had said I was a 40 percent, three point shooter taking four threes a game and I had wide open threes all game, but I was actually hurting my team by not shooting.


And he just didn't realize it in the moment because, as you said, point guards were supposed to have 15 points, 12 assists and help everybody else get off. It wasn't his job to shoot it because he he and I spoke about it a couple of weeks ago, and he basically said the same thing to me. And it would have been really interesting because I told the story a lot with Mike when I got there. I had never shot as many threes as they were going to expect me to shoot.


And Mike told me straight up, like, this is how many threes that we have vacated. This is how many I expect you to shoot. That's your quota. You're going to shoot those. And the only reason I'm going to pull you out is if you're open and you don't shoot it. And like that was his philosophy. So it's it's interesting that he just never got there with Steve.


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New Year's is only MacSporran. One hundred twenty five minimum ten dollars first deposit required restrictions apply see full terms at Sportsbook that Fandor dotcom gambling problem one hundred Gambhir call there or in West Virginia visit one 800 Gambir Dannette Indiana went and done with a Colorado one hundred fifty to forty seven hundred back to Rajiva. I always like when smart teams use the best players Achilles heel against them, like the Spurs, they they were basically like, Hey, Steve, keep score, man.


If you end up with forty eight, that's great for us. And and meanwhile, he's taking all good shots, but they know that's the best way. The Celtics in the 2010 game seven, they were like, Kobe wants to be the hero tonight. We're double teaming them. He's going to shoot anyway. He's not going to be able to resist. He's he's and they used it against a Jedi mind. Trick them for three quarters. He's taken the worst shots in the planet.


And then finally, the Lakers, like he realized what they're doing. Right. And then he started to spread the by and then they come back and they win in the fourth quarter. But it is funny when that what did teams do with Iverson to make him to fuck him up like that?


Yeah, that's a that's a good one. I'm trying to think. What do I mean, I get him super competitive.


Right? Like, we didn't like talking shit to him. Wouldn't that be the way to kind of get him out of his game? Almost.


Yeah, but he I think with him, because he was small, if I had to say one thing that I think they really just tried to punish him like that against him, like it was, hey, if you get a chance, we're not trying to hurt anybody. But, you know, we're going to make him get up off the floor and make a free throw, you know, like. Right. Not just foul him and make a free to make him get off the floor and make a free throw.


And I think that was probably because he was so slight, the way teams kind of approached. I well, you know, who's going to do that? And if we get Lakers. Blazers. Games got game set in the deck, they have a lot of hours to waste, they have 18 hours just from the center position and then a whole bunch of other dudes and they're just going to knock them around. And Verdi. No, McCollom, we don't know how bad that injury is, but that's the way they and it's just by being more physical.


I think if they had if C.J. was healthy and because I don't think that without a healthy C.J., game's going to be enough over like a series like that. But if they had, T.J., I think the Lakers could be in trouble. I totally agree. I'm a Laker. I like the Lakers. But that without Avery Bradley and another without those type of bodies to throw away Damian, wouldn't you be in a tough spot?


You know, we were talking earlier about offenses being predictable and. To me, the Lakers have looked like that in the bubble, and I don't know if it's rust. They're missing a couple of guys. They're missing some guards said that were essential guys for their team. But it just looks like laborious for them to run an offense. And, you know, it's LeBron and Davis, they're going to get theirs. The three through 12 guys just aren't that good, and I think you're already seeing it and we now know where it is in the playoffs, teams are just going to be like, OK, cool.


And if if you're seventh guy is going to take five, three days, if Quinn could knock yourself out, buddy, go for it. Keep taking up like that. So it's going to happen. And I don't think they really like that. What do you what have you seen from them that concerns you?


Really stagnant offense. But that's that's not that's not out of character for a LeBron team. I was I spent that year in the front office with Cleveland Browns first year back, and David Blatt had all of these sets that he wanted to run, all of this motion that we wanted to create and stuff. And then eventually, you know, it was just like, we'll give him the ball, you know, let it let him create is so good at it.


Like he's always the best in the league, usually in the league in assists. He'll just make us work. Well, No. One, LeBron doesn't really get downhill the same way. Like he doesn't get the shoulders by his primary defender all the time, like he used to that first step. And he's still amazing. But the first step doesn't collapse the defenses like it used to. So, yeah, when you don't collapse the defense, then you're throwing it out to me in the corner and my man still on me.


That's a problem, right? Like you have to draw my man so I could shoot it. And then it is another guy that likes to work in an ISO. So then it's really stagnant and everyone's standing. And again, you're getting situations to your point where Quinn Cook is now having to catch a ball. If LeBron on an ad don't like their situation in a one on one situation. And that's that's not what I typically like four through twelve do on NBA teams like those are complimentary pieces.


They're they're not one on one bucket getters. Dion Waiters is kind of inefficiently he's a guy that'll go get his own buckets. Blues maybe develops into that, but he's not there yet. And so it's a really weird team to have so little offensive movement. And, you know, again, I'd really like to hear your take on this. I like add I don't think that his is talent is off the charts like he is a I mean, you could put him up there with all time greats in terms of like his length and skill set.


But I don't know that he's got the mentality to carry when you have to carry, when it's really hard to carry, when the whole city is waiting for you to carry. And they're going to need him to do that, because I don't think LeBron, like LeBron is at that point his career anymore where he's got to do that night in, night out.


Yeah, I've been thinking about this a lot because. That teams at an interesting crossroads, Davis is actually their best guy to get a basket in the fourth quarter. I think he's their most reliable. If I if my life depended on. I need two points. Davis is just the easiest for him to create a good shot. I don't think they're ever going to get to that point because LeBron is still great and LeBron is one of the best three players of all time, and if they're in a situation where it's like they're down three, two in a series and there's a minute left, they're down three.


The brand is going to be shooting, the brand is going to be taken. They're going to live and die with the brand that last minute. And I guess my point is, if I'm the other team, I'm I'm pretty good with that. Like even that first Clipper bubble game, LeBron was the guy who took the shots at the end. Davis was felt like he could get any shot he wanted in that game and that little tug of war.


How that plays out, I think, is is the weirdest subplot with them. So it makes sense.


That's a really it's a really good point. I hadn't really thought of it that way because I thought you might be right. Like adds hesitancy, maybe a product of him feeling like LeBron is not ready to maybe pass that torch to him, like, you know what I mean? Like, that's it's not necessarily my job yet. Could be causing him to have cold feet. But but you're right like that that dynamic between those two figuring out, like, am I good enough if I'm LeBron to bring it home or do I need to defer truly to add and be the supporter instead of the one being supportive?


They've got to iron that out and quick.


Well, it almost depends on the matchup. I think you saw like in the 2006 finals, which you guys easily could have been in, Wade and Shaq, Shaq still Shaq like he was three of three finals in a row. He still wasn't. He was a little past his prime, but he was still in the tail end of his prime. Sure. And then Wade's the young guy. It's like, well, I can't totally be Dwayne Wade.


Shaq, well, start. And then in that finals, he's like, I got this. And he just takes over the finals and they win. The thing I'm not saying Davis needs to do that, but, you know, I think about the two thousand seven seven Suns are playing the Lakers and you're just matching up with them. You have a lot of guys to throw at LeBron. You can wear him out. You put multiple people on him.


It's actually better for you guys if LeBron is controlling the end of the game, who you don't have the matchup for as Davis. And ultimately you're going into those final two minutes like, fuck, I hope they don't realize they just set up Davis. We hit we can't defend him. We don't have to put Kurt Thomas in if they if they do that. And I guess that's my point. I don't know if the Lakers are there mentally where they see that we're maybe depending on the matchup, maybe.


Right. They even though they are using. Well, you know, you were right in that the met the match up problem, now LeBron is always a problem, but the matchup problem, the one that most people don't have something to counter is is a. And so LeBron, I will say this for LeBron amongst a lot of other things I say because I'm a big fan, he's as smart as there is out there. So, yes, he'll get in the middle of that.


And if there's anyone that's going to figure it out on the fly, if it's not figured out already, it will be LeBron.


Yeah, I was thinking, if you go and who's the smartest player in the league? I think it's a yes. Best athlete. You would say Yoni's. Most kind of biggest bad ass, I might I might say its name if you're going like the Allen Iverson Memorial, who's just the toughest guy in the league right now? I think you could make the damn case. He look. So you say tough, I naturally like it's just knee jerk, I think of like a big Bruyn's in a fight, but you might be right.


I mean, when you talk about a set, so let's use, I say assassin like the biggest assassin in the league for sure. Game like this. Not even a question. Well, and you would say as the quiet assassin, he's the quiet assassin. But like when you talk about like I just I am obnoxious in a good way with this. Like, my swag is one hundred percent off the charts. And I don't care what you say, I'm going to drop 50 and a double down with sixty one day.


I wrote like way back. I did like the scale of when you have game winning shots, what your reaction is and what that says about you as a player. Because you think about like Jordan hits the shot against Cleveland, he's jumping up and down his fist pumping and like but then by the time he gets to the ninety seven finals, game one, just the quiet fist pump. And Kobe, he's trying to harness his version of that and he has that steal against you guys.


I went to that game in 06 when I mean, he it's almost a flagrant foul that he commits to get the ball and still gets it and then he makes the game winner and kind of just enjoyed it.


He was kind of trying to find the Jordan, but I don't really feel like he got there until probably 09, 2010. But it's always interesting about Damons the last couple of years. He reacts to these big moments like he's been doing it for twenty years. It's it's a little I don't really understand where it came from because he hasn't played in the finals. No, it's a heat. So it's just self belief. Right? It's it's it's what makes and what it's what makes you who you are as a player.


But it ultimately is what kind of separates greats from good. It's it's just almost an ignorance to like any fault you may have on the court. Like, I just I'm so self-confident and I believe in what I do so much that it doesn't really matter what any of my resume says. It doesn't matter what you think like this is. This is who I am. And Ronnie Price, one of my favorite teammates when I played in Utah with him, game was still at Weber State.


And he told me, he said there's a key that we were state that when the league sees him, it's going to be a problem. And I was like Randy Weber state and he said, listen, this kid is he's different and I'll be damned.


Well, I have a draft diary from that year where I ripped them for taking him over Austin Rivers was one of my finest moments, like he's 20 to Austin Rivers is only 19.


What are they thinking? I have a whole paragraph whereby what if I were so that the oaken thing is pretty funny to do. Do you believe that certain the personalities of certain players can be tied to where they're from? Like, do you think there's like Chicago type guys, Washington, D.C. type guys? OK, guys. So you believe that because I've heard some people like are super duper believers in this? I believe in that.


I definitely believe that. I know a lot of people from from Oakland and they have a they have a toughness and a great I kind of like and like the East Coast city for me, like Oakland is a Philly type of scene where a great just really, really tough. And there's a hardness to you, like I'm a Miami guy. And so, like, if you ask anybody about like Udonis who who's a Heat lifer, they will tell you he's in the body like he embodies what Miami is about.


Right. I believe in that. Like you you come up and you take your lumps where you're from and you go out and you try to react like in any walk of life, but certainly in an athletic walk of life, like you were repping for your town and in his case, the town. So I believe it for sure. I had never really thought about it. So the first day I was doing Countdown Me and Magic and Jalen and Willowby, and they started arguing about Chicago versus Detroit and Magic was talking about all these Michigan guys he played with and Woodbines Bonds going with the Chicago guys.


And we were kind of talking about how different areas produce certain types of guys. Right. In Michigan, it was, you know, tough guys, but they were just for whatever reason, really gifted offensively and like and maybe part of it was that George Irvin was the guy that Magic's generation, when they're going in the gym, they're watching. And he's just two points, two points, two points doing everything. And they're kind of in that mindset.


But but then you get like New York City, where it's like the point guard, the DNA, the history of the heritage of that point guard position is like the most important thing about New York City. And everybody's trying to be the next. Yeah. And so stuff like that, I wouldn't take a talk about simply safe.


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Hey, when you watch the playoffs, do you identify with the guys like Gary Trent Junior? Because I feel like he's the most rajar belt type guy in these playoffs, like kind of the underdog. Thirty seventh in the draft had to scrap and fight to get well. I mean, obviously he went to Duke, which is a little different than your situation, but, you know, and constantly and now he's this incredibly essential guy for them. And those are always the guys that end up winning playoff series.


But do you identify with that?


I definitely do. I, I think he's better than I watch him. He's he's I think he could be like, if you slotted like where my career wound up being like one to ten, I think he's going to wind up being higher on the scale than me. I think he can do more things offensively. I think he's got more upside than I did. But I always pull for that. I don't know, maybe fourth or fifth guy. Like, he's never going to be your number one or number two, probably, but he can be your number three on a lot of nights, you know, and those guys are fun to watch.


Like another guy to that to that. I like watching because I check the box score for Memphis just to see like what was going on there because it was so lopsided in Dillon. Brooks had twenty seven. Yeah, it really is another one. Yeah. Just tough. Like you know, you could tell whether the skill level is super pretty or not, like his heart is in, like he's going to do whatever he can for that team to not let them lose.


And I am always on on for sure. And for a guy like that, you know, when I in the air in Boston, which was really dark and my dad never won the game, so it was gave me the tickets and we had Bruce Bowen one year. Wow. Couldn't shoot.


But so what you're what years were those those. I was in school in Boston around that time like ninety four. Ninety six ninety. This is yeah.


This is like ninety, ninety seven. Ninety eight season. OK, just after I left. Yeah. After you left. So bones in there you can't shoot like he can't every shot.


It's like watching somebody throw a rock against a wall but he's trying harder than everybody else.


He's unbelievable defensively like he can move laterally in a way that it was like, Jesus, this guy's a freak and the other players hated him. And they did take guys. The other team, you could just tell they're like, fuck this guy. And I was like, this guy something if he ever can ever figure out how to even, like, shoot remotely decently. So now my guy like this now five on the Sixers. I love that guy, if he can ever just figure out how to make a wide open shot five times a game.


That guy is going to be on like a final scene. See, that's interesting. He the one I was it's a great point, though. Like even in a pickup game, like if I'm watching the game and I've got next, I am picking up whoever looks like they are or are hated by the other team, more like it's a really it's just the most compliment. Right. Like you are doing something right when everyone on the other team hates you.


The great thing about that for Bruce Dyball, like myself, like I didn't too well when I first came into the league, that's something that like if you're dedicated, you're going to get better at it. If you're already the guy you're describing that we're describing, you're going to be in the gym like self evaluating and you're going to say, hey, man, this is what I have to get better and to have that kind of career. And he'll like provided there's no, like, mental hiccup or something like that, like, you'll be fine.


He'll wind up shooting at a thirty six thirty seven forty two percent clip at some point. That's, I mean that's why I was devastated in the south extirpated that pick. I really want to know because I just feel like certain guys if the knock on them as they can't shoot. But you're watching the game and every single play they're trying harder than everybody else. It's like, well that guy's probably going to be in the gym on the summer trying to figure out how to shoot.


Thirty nine percent from three. I mean, you probably weren't a great shooter in the nineties, right? When did it when did your shot officially fall into place?


Well, Philly Philly was hard because you didn't get a lot of them. And then. Yeah, in Dallas, I just Dallas is when I started. I was really great shooters, though, like they had the first shooting coach I ever was exposed to. And then Nash and Whiskey and what Williams and get. And then so I got I got the shooting bug but I couldn't really make a lot of shots, like I didn't get a lot of shots.


And then in Utah, I started really getting with the shooting coach in the off season and a guy named Marvin Harvey was down in Tampa and I'd work with him every summer. I have to make shots. And, you know, it was selfish also because I realized that I was always going to play on a minimum deal as the guy that could start half of the games for you, score four points and just defend. So I was like, man, if if I really want to solidify like a spot in your career, I have to make some shots.


So I started digging in and by my second year in Utah, I was I was proficient. And then in Phoenix it was just a shooting culture. So it was like, that's what we do. It's so funny, some guys, it's I would say everybody should at least be able to become a decent shooter unless it's like a Michael Kidd Gilchrist thing, where there's literally just something wrong with your form that doesn't seem like it could be fixed. Right.


Otherwise, it's just hard work in the gym. This is why I really liked RJ Barrett head in the. I am the greatest first year for the next batch. And that guy's really competitive and it's like, well, he can't really totally shoot yet a second. I'm betting that he'll figure it out three years into the league because he just seems to me like the kind of guy that's going to be in the gym day after day trying to figure it out.


I'm sure that was one of your lessons from how many years you played, like the guys on your team, the guys that put in the extra work. Were those the guys that made it? Why is it so hard for NBA teams to realize this when they're drafted?


It's a good question. I mean, talent is tantalizing. You know, like it's a great question. And I know I always thought when I was in, like when I played that the general managers were like the smartest people. Some of them are like David Griffin.


He's really smart. Yeah. Some of them are not, you know. And so, like you could tantalise like the speed and length and adjectives that describe, like, you know, athletes that are just not normal. Like all of those things are really tantalizing. And I'm with you like I look for I look for like determination and grit and perseverance and character, like those type of things mean something to me. The problem with that is you can have all of that.


And if you don't have the talent, it doesn't work. So you're going to air on the side of talent hoping that you can teach them to shoot or teach them to. And I think that's why it happens more that like, OK, so when I was in Cleveland, I did a lot of scouting and I was I was going around to all these conference tournaments and we had a second round pick and we were it was the kid, J.P. Tokito from from North Carolina.


And that's why I was there to watch they play Yuva. And I said, you know, I watch the game and I wrote in my report or like I said, I know we're here to see Tokito and the kid that he's playing against isn't coming off this year. But the way this kid kicked his ass like you don't want Tokito and it was Malcolm Brogdon and I was like, whenever he's ready to come out it's the one that you want.


Tokito just and it wasn't a school thing like he could put his knees on the rim and all of that. He just when that kid like chest it up like Tokoroa didn't want any part of it. And so you know those are the things that I always look for. Yeah, it's weird, I mean, even like this is in the greatest draft, the one we're about to have, but there's a couple guys in this draft that are the classic, really talented, questionable motor.


And I'm just like, I'm out your motors crushable about. Good luck with the next team. Take you at this one thing I've learned in 50 years, the questionable motor about.


Yeah. Whatever happened to I can't I can't teach like effort like I can't work with no effort. That's a minimal effort.


Yeah. I remember too we did the 2013 draft me in jail and so I really got into it and read everything. We got to interview some of the guys and I just thought like Oladipo is the safest pick I was. I don't know if he's a Hall of Famer. I know he's going to play hard. I know he's going to give a shit. I know he'll be a great teammate. Worst case scenario, he'll be a good three point shooter and a very good defender and kind of a hybrid guard.


And that's kind of safer than anything else in this draft. Bennett went refers to the Cavs, which is stunning when it happened, because it seemed like he was going to follow like eight or nine. But that was the classic what we're talking about, right? Oh, my God, the athleticism, whatever. Meanwhile, he was six six got for the Cavs. You get to the Cavs like three years after that. Like, what did they say about that three years later?


I you know, I barely brought it up.


It would be a good idea. It was just an understood miss. And I think they were really conflicted because I think he's a really good kid now. I don't know. Right. But from everything they said, he's a really good kid. It just it just didn't work, you know, he just wasn't what they thought he was.


And they just snowballs against you. And that's that. I mean, that was so funny because C.J. was in that draft and it was clear he was a score and nobody knew he was going to do what he's doing. But it was clear he'd be like, oh, he could be a third guard who could score off the bench, worst case scenario. And then Giannis was the great X Factor. But he was you know Yanis was like six eight and a half in that draft or six nine.


He grew three inches. He came to America and he's playing against eighth graders in these clips and you're like I don't know, like how are we supposed to evaluate this who. And you know that's how guys get become legends or get fired within a year and within a year. And it's like you just hit the nail on the head. Right. Like that. That that's why I think a lot of guys don't pass on that size length, kind of like freaky athleticism, because if it is a hard worker and Robert Hackett was the strength conditioning coach in Milwaukee at the time and it was two years into his development, but he still wasn't like what you what he is now.


But he was like, he's going to be he's going to be he was like, the way this kid works, he's right to be it. And that's that's why it's hard to pass on that, because if you get the package of athleticism and offside with the IT factor of like dedication and hard work, you've you've got those type of player. He cares every game. And it doesn't matter what it is you put on league pass. And he's going at the same level and I think.


I think that's why one of the reasons why people get so frustrated with them be on one night, you're catching them, he's either going through the motions or he looks like the best center of the last 30 years. But he's playing in a league right now where a lot of the best guys, just even LeBron at age thirty five, like these guys, they don't take nights, often take quarters off. Maybe they pick their spots or sometimes, but it beats the one out of all the great players that you catch them on the run, that you're like, what are you doing man?


What's going on with him? I don't know him. I don't. He is uber frustrating to me for everything that you just explained. And I just get the sense and again, I don't know him. It looks like he's really immature. It looks like, you know, even showing up to the bubble in the hazmat suit, like, I get it, it's funny. Like you're a good fellow and I'm not mad at you for that. But, you know, like you should be there for business, like you're there to win a championship.


Like Damian Lillard not showing up in a hazmat suit. He's here to go to work and he never comes across like that to me. Like, even like don't you can we start. We had this conversation the other night about the rolling of an ankle and leaving a game. I saw the rolled ankle. They're all your weight wasn't on that ankle like it wasn't like you came down out of the air and the ankle hit the floor. It was a mild sprain.


No shit did it. The X-rays came back negative. And then, you know, it's just I don't man, he's so frustrated. I don't mean to get like, he's super talented. He could be great. I just don't know if he's there on top. I don't know if he has that. Well, I was thinking, like when Simmons went out. There is a version of this where it's like and it's like, get on my back, everybody.


Here we go. And that was what we saw. But, you know, the thing with them and I remember like being there for some of the Celtics Sixers playoff games, when he puts it together for a quarter, it's fucking terrifying. He's completely unstoppable. And I think everybody else in the league kind of wants it to stay this way. It's like, yeah, or he doesn't I hope he doesn't get into completely incredible shape and I hope he takes quarters five.


Let's keep it this way.


Don't ever figure it out like every other team in the NBA. Don't don't put two and two together. I worked with a guy, a really good basketball mind. And while most everyone's fascinated with his size, skill combination and the fact that he can go out there and shoot threes, you know, he's been for years, like he doesn't shoot them well enough. So, like with the absence of any real paint presence just dominating, they're just go in there and absolutely dominate.


And when when he's having the runs that you're describing, when he looks unstoppable, most of it is that like he's still suppliments with some threes and some really high school stuff, but a lot of it is going at the rim and then he'll just like tune out or it'll be like the next game. And he forgets that he scored thirty seven, like, almost all in the paint and he's shooting nine threes. And you're like, what, what's going on?


The reality is I don't think it's very fun to be a center. In basketball, and I think if you go through the history, you go through the history of the league. This is the same kind of thing over and over again where these guys, they're expected to dominate because they're size people. They get treated differently by the officials, people power. And then they pull their pull their arms. They're pulling their things. They're hitting them from behind.


And when you succeed, you're supposed to succeed. Well, you don't beat yourself until you're supposed to have 40 points. And, you know, I, I, I think if you go through the last 60, 70 years, there's been a lot of Joel Embiid that you're like man I wish, I wish he brought it more often but maybe it's like maybe it's that fun. I know like people thought this way about Artis Gilmore, they felt this way about Walt Bellamy, they felt this way about Wilt Chamberlain from time to time.


You know, it's a really good point because I know a lot of bigs that you're like, you know, I just don't I don't love it. I don't know. I'm just just really big and really talented. I don't know a lot of guards like that. I don't like guards are usually off or whatever. Like maybe I'm biased to the guard position, but I know a lot of bigs that you just described that like really big. Don't really love playing big.


You question whether they love it at all and it just you don't find a lot of guards. Maybe it's too hard. You're not six eleven. You don't just get the passes that you might get if you were if you were, you know you know, back when I played I'm now retired, one of my roles was if you have the big guy in your team pick up, they just made that guy's life really happy. Look for him. Just can't get on the ball.


If he's running on a fast break, make an effort to get him the ball because then he'll be like, this is great. I'm going around the fast break. And then that's an advantage for us because he's the biggest guy in this game by five inches. But Dave Jacoby and I, we always when we used to play together at USC, I said, like, I'm a pro, but we would any time we got a big guy would always, like, take care of the big guy, make the big guy happy.


And sometimes I wonder what that Philly team, whether whether they think that way everything they do should be like to coddle him, make him happy, get him shots, like get him in that mindset to just be like, I'm going to dominate, I'm going to go for forty tonight. And I don't feel like they do that. Everything feels too competitive on that team. Well, yeah, that's it's so simple, though, right? Like, it's we teach that with with our like our kids, like, look, man, if you have the big and he's doing what we need him to do, just absolutely give you will give him a touch, get in touch with you.


But I think Philes, Billy, because I Ben Simmons, Angela, they don't they don't fit together like they're not they're just not a good combination. And I think that for the last couple of years, it's not been public. But I think there's really been a struggle there behind closed doors at the at top and between the two of them for like whose show that's going to be like who who is going to be the best guy for the seventy Sixers to kind of saddle up and ride into the promised land.


And so I think that kind of is probably part of the reason why Philly might be missing the opportunity to really say, listen, Joel, here's we're going to do it like we're going to expect you to score X amount of points in the paint and we're going to make those like easy, good touches for you. Will, we'll run offense to create that. And then obviously you're skilled enough where you can be outside and do these things that will get you in pick and partial ISO.


You'll have your opportunities, you know, because we need you to be the guy that we're going to need you to give us these in the paint. And then we're going to and we'll let you get the rest of yours. But I don't think has been approached like that. I think it's been a power struggle.


Which one would you keep know? A year and a half ago, I said I would take Ben Simmons because I didn't trust Joel Embiid Mental. I just I know everything is great. I know he's got this skill set and size that that you rarely see, but I don't trust his his mental lately. Because of the inability to shoot the ball and not just the inability to shoot it, but like the unwillingness to shoot it, that's a real hurdle.


Like we talked about with shooters, you can become a good shooter if you're freed up mentally to shoot. Like if you're willing to shoot, if you're completely unwilling to shoot, then I don't know that you ever become a good shooter. So that concerns me at this point. I'd probably say Embiid and just hope that we figure it out. But you know. I don't know, I'm conflicted because the game, the game's not played like that anymore.


The game is played with with with more of your type of players, right? Guys that can create six, nine. You get downhill like great vision, but you got to be able to shoot the ball. There was a really fun Ben Simmons, Devin Booker fake trade that I felt was realistic, that now I don't feel like Phoenix would do that from what's going on with Booker lately. Yeah, no, because now they've actually seen him with a decent supporting cast.


And now, you know, it's like where you and Logan talked about, like if you get your points there in teams that winning, guess what? Your team's not winning. And we don't care how many points you have. But if you put it together, one last thing before we go, you'll be on any time. So we we have lots of stuff to talk about. I'm not just letting Logan have you.


I'm going to bring you on this a lot of times. And if you realize your relationship with Clipper fans. Right. No, I didn't. There's a relationship with me. Yeah, everybody talks about what it's like to say, oh yeah, him and Kobe and there's this whole liquor thing with you. Right? Well, until until the collapse against the Houston Rockets in twenty fifteen, which is the most devastating moment in history, your shot when Dunlavey put in Daniel Ewing Oil, down three of the three to ice the game, I think it was game for quipster.


Got up three one game five would have been I've been a Clippers fan, but I've had four tickets and so far write down three, an ice cold Daniel Ewing, ice cold hadn't played. They bring him in and he decides he's going to leave you three feet open instead of one and a half feet open and you hit a game tying three. You win in overtime and you end the series like the Clipper fans are like we could have won the title that year and I'm not positive they're wrong.


I'm kind of a weird year. Right. And end up being the Miami Dallas here. They played Dallas really well that year and then Miami, who knows? But that was a really good Clippers team. So you broke their hearts.


Well, that makes I listen, I said you always you're doing something right. If you're the guy that everybody on the other team hates, like, I take that as a compliment.


I mean, I don't even think they hate you. I think they hate then leave it to you and for that to keep going one foot closer.


But, yeah, I mean, that's there aren't a lot of most famous moments in Clippers history, but that's like a top five most famous couple of them. You didn't even know. That's how relevant.


I had no idea. Yeah, that's no idea.


That's great. That's great. You know, the crazy thing is, can you you like you could talk about, like, physically being cold and not being ready to like play because you haven't played. But typically and it's just human nature when you're not going to play at all in a series like I've been there, you're not even really paying attention to, like outing reports, like you don't even know what's going on. So he probably like the one thing and I watched the game with my sons and some of their friends over the over the covid break.


And the announcers kept saying, like, the Clippers have to make a concerted effort to run him off of his shot, make him put it on the floor, and they did a good job of it. And then here he comes in the game. He probably never even heard the scouting report. And it's unbelievable that Clipper team was really good.


I was going to those games that you're thinking like because Elton was like twenty five and eleven every game, like he was one of the seven biggest guys in the league that year. They had a really smart backcourt. They had some some weird stuff going with the bench, like they would get weird bench guy stuff every once in a good way and they were just pretty good. But I guess we didn't leave. Is your coach. I was feeling they had so came and played phenomenal.


Yeah. Especially against us. He was. Have a great year Coutinho Sam Kesselbach. What was tough. Alberghetti came in and we just, just forget it was foul shots scoreline. He's got eight nine foul shots again. That was what he did.


They were, they were tough. We were, we were scared like that was we thought they, some of us thought that they were a bigger challenge in the Lakers that year.


They were really tough and young Shaun Livingston before he got hurt. That's right. As a third guy, he was good. They had to. All right. Listen, I'm really happy you're you're with the ringer, and I'm excited to put you in a whole bunch of different situations with us. But but I've been a long time fan, so it's really nice to finally be working with you. Oh, man, I'm happy to be here. I'm now the vibe curator.


If you haven't heard me, the vibe curator. I like it. Yeah, I appreciate that. And and any time because I'm super excited to be here, man. I'm a big fan.


All right. Cool. Thank you. All right. We're bringing in my buddy Jack on one second, who sometimes I see when we do a little social distancing drinks with our friends from Holy Cross. You know, it's a great idea for social distancing drinks like it's always been there. They bring people together through military time. Maybe now it's a zoom car, quick porch beer with your neighbors, masking up for a socially distant hangout outside, whatever it is, you can still have Miller time.


Great taste, great taste is always close by. This has been my beer since college. Joe has talked about last week there's no better beer for the golf course. It's great beer for the social distancing right now. Maybe Joe Miller Lite with friends. It looks a little different, but staying connected is just as important, whether you're in your house or apartment with roommates or partners, with you, with your family, whether you're keeping an interactions digital, whatever you got.


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We're bringing in my buddy Jacko. Last time he was here, we were wondering if the baseball season was going to completely fall apart. It's still going. I remember making the joke. Something like I'll have you on. Right around the next time Stanton gets hurt, Stant got hurt. Now it's time Stanton blasted. How many weeks?


Two and a half, yeah, roughly. Yeah, just about. That's pretty much par for the course. Yeah.


What was his injury? Hamstring.


Hamstring a grade three or grade four. Hamstring injury. And those tendons, tendons and muscles are just tough for him. You would think you'd stretch, you know, a guy making three hundred and fifty million dollars or whatever his contract is. You think maybe you'd have a stretching regimen at this point, but not so much. Running the bases gets you every time, you know, leads leads you right to the DL.


In My Keeper fantasy league, there is like a bidding war for Stanton. I didn't know what was going on. I was like that. He said they figure out how to stay healthy for Tiger. How much how much pandemic baseball have you been watching? Oh, I've watched, except that I was away in Maine for the past couple of days, I've when I've been home, I've watched pretty much all the games. Whether you like it, you're getting into it.


Yeah, of course.


I mean, I had no sports for four months, and I love the Yankees. I love hate the Yankees. So, of course, when they came back, I mean, it is weird with no fans, you know, when there's like a late inning rally or, you know, the classic New York thing where they started with Ron Guidry, when the batter has two strikes and the Yankees are pitching, it's weird not to hear the crowd, you know, into it and rising and cheering the crowd.


Noise they pump in is ridiculous. But yeah, otherwise other than the crowd thing, I've been into it. Yeah. I can't tell if I dislike it or I just don't want to watch this Red Sox game, and it's about 30, 30, 70. But I mean, I don't know if you've seen our starting rotation this year, but they just decided to throw the air away. And then on top of it, Devers and JD have been in a coma.


And I think Andrew in 10 day was replaced like a year and a half ago by somebody else, I think the real Andrew. But in 10 days living in like Ohio in a basement, trying to get out of this imposter. Right. But, yeah, when your team sucks, guess what's not fun, baseball without fans. Yeah, absolutely. I totally understand that. Yeah. And, you know, it would probably be more fun to get the old classic salty Boston Red Sox fan back who could be their lustily booing them and just hating life and hating the team and the ownership and everything else.


And, you know, the pandemic. You've missed out on that. So you don't even get, like, the best part of an awful Red Sox team, right? I don't know fans like when when Martine Perez lived pretty good and his last start last week. But I know his next start, he's going to give up like 11 hits and three weeks, hopefully, to get back and get booed off the field. Yeah. Oh, and the Yankees are going to be great.


How about basketball, the bulk of basketball?


Well, now, I'm not a big NBA guy to begin with, so I haven't really gotten into that. I mean, I because I follow the ringer and numerous bring our personalities on Twitter, yourself included. I really can't avoid NBA basketball. And, you know, just scrolling through Twitter, I get a sense of what's going on. I mean, the Celtics have been good, right. The bucks the bucks are good Giannis headbutted a guy I know I'll do it.


We should hire you for NBA reports I got to say Laker guy.


The Lakers have been a little disjointed right. Like there are people a little worried about the Lakers. The Suns came out of nowhere. They got my guy John Morente. You know, I was early on the job entrain having seen him play at the NCAA tournament in Hartford. He just he's led Memphis into the play end game now. Right? Is that what I've just. Yeah, yeah. This is my gogia. There you go. That's my that's my NBA report.


We have huge that we have Jacko Jackson airplay.


Yoni's headbutted a guy about bubble hockey. Anything there? Well, you know, I grew up as a Hartford Whaler fan and of course, the weather left me. So I'm sort of a half assed Ranger fan by default.


It's really disgusting. Well, yeah, but what's heartbreaking is, of course, then they were swept out of it by the hurricanes that used to be the Hartford whalers. Just to further my heart that that was hurtful.


But then they bounced back and had the maybe the NHL draft lottery rigged for them to win the number one pick. So now that that worked out well, that was good for for me in terms of hockey.


So, you know, I said I didn't know if Bettman tried to just slide that by everybody because, you know, the world is so discombobulated if you're ever going to just fix the lottery for somebody. This is the year.


Well, I don't know.


There's always whenever it's like when Ewing the Ewing thing, which really was rigged. So everybody thinks, well, he rigged it for the Rangers because they're a big market team. But I mean, you know, I think if they were going to rig it, wouldn't they rather rig it for, like, the Maple Leafs or the Canadians or the Canadians? And I think they were maybe in it, too. I don't even know. But they would regret it for Toronto, who's been perpetually awful.


And Toronto is like the capital of hockey. So you would think they would regret for them. But again, I was away, but I saw the thing afterwards. And the commissioner I don't even know if it was the commissioner or whoever it was that pulled out the ping pong balls. He gets to the number one and he drops it and they're like, well, that's because it was weighted, you know, so you put the old lead pellets in the ping pong ball so it didn't pop out till the end or whatever.


So but the Rangers are the number one pick.


Do you think he would be more confident now that Rob Manfred has replaced him as the worst commissioner in sports? You would hit that right. Batman would be surging with confidence these days.


You could just openly regret nobody's going to say anything. Just have all the balls, say Rangers on him.


And, you know, the career, the cardinals, they've missed like, what, two weeks?


Yeah, I was looking at that today. I was looking at the standings. And like, right now the Yankees are twelve and six. I looked at it in. The Cardinals are two and three. They've played five games and the Yankees have played eighteen. And and the guy, apparently one of their own was a coach or clubhouse guy. Somebody tested positive again today. And you have to have two negative tests in a row, back to back days of negative test to keep to be able to be to play.


They're supposed to play the White Sox this weekend. I was listening to the radio on the way home and they said no. The plan was that the they could have rental cars and drive individually from St. Louis to Chicago.


But ten hours.


Now, from St. Louis to Chicago, no, it's not that far. Five. No, no, no, no. Three, it's like across Illinois, no, I'm going to say it's like an hour and a half, two hours.


OK, we're going to have to have somebody Google that. But no, I. So, yeah, but then they said this guy tested positive, so now they may be on hold. So they're like apparently the goal was if they could play at least forty nine games or something, it would be respectable. But that means they have to you know, there's only so many days left until the end of the season and they'd have to play some ridiculous number of double amount of double headers and hope that there was no more like Raynaud's or any other cancellations for any reason.


So four hours and 30 minutes, St. Louis to Chicago for a half. Really?


Yeah, we're surprised by that. We're right in the middle of our argument. I'm surprised I got to go. I was listening to a podcast today and they were talking about the Cardinals and they're like, well. You know, they'll just have to try to catch up the double headers and stuff, I'm like, what? Yeah, well, what sure are they going to play 15 games in a week? Like, how do you catch up? It's a six week season.


They've just missed two weeks. I know.


And then somebody else like the Mad Dog. I was listening to Mad Dog Chris Mad Dog Russo. And he's like, well, you know, pretty soon they might just have to cancel the Cardinals season. OK. I mean, how do you how is the World Series winner when there's like only like twenty nine of the thirty teams were able to be participating? You know, like it's already excluded because it's 60 games and now we're going to cut that down and now we're just going to eliminate teams that have sickness.


I don't know. It's it's odd. Odd to me.


I can't wait till you win the World Series trophy. And you've completely talked yourself into this being a balance, is it? There's no question. I buy the hat. I'll buy the T-shirt. Absolutely. No question. Absolutely. Hey, whether it was winter time, only one team showed up to fuck the Cardinals. That's what else. It's still limping toward the mound, trying to celebrate.


Tears in my eyes, tears in his eyes. Absolutely. Wearing a cast. Yeah, it's it's Chaplin wrote a good piece this week for The Boston Globe about it. And it's a really weird time for baseball where you start to wonder. Is is this actually. Going to come back in the same form when all the other sports, like when things are normal again at some point, is there it's like irrevocable damage now with baseball in some ways because it was already heading that way with some there are some danger signs and now it's like, all right.


Now, what will this mean if they just had this fraud of the season, especially if, like hockey and basketball and football, figure out some semblance of what seems to be a normal season.


You know what it's going to come down to if they have a good postseason, if there's compelling playoff series. I read the other day that now they may put together some half assed plan to have like the playoff teams in a bubble. So they would go to some location and that would make sure like nobody got sick, presumably, hopefully during the postseason. So if they have a competent postseason and people are into it like there's some seven game series or later in comebacks or drama, you know, it's still baseball, I think that's going to win people back.


Well, let's talk about hopes. Let's talk about our favorite 2020 baseball stuff. But they how to a battle in the Mendoza line. Yes, there's been no more fun thing than this. I've enjoyed all of it. I've enjoyed all the excuses. I've enjoyed the venom on all the social media places. And it's just really great and it's fantastic. I can't say it's turned out any better.


I remember back during the homerun race back in the late 90s and before the McGuire and Sosa thing took off, there was the guy that was the clubhouse leader for a long time was Ken Griffey Junior. And we used to joke about it because Peter Gammons wrote a column and he's like, the first thing I do when I get up in the morning is I look at the box score to see if what Griffey did, you know? And he said, the first thing I do when I go up the morning is I take a piss.


So that's always stuck with me. Yeah, but I think I got to me, too, especially as I get older. But but I excitedly look at my phone and see what the Astros did and what else they did. And I'm so happy when I see the oh four five or the four four. He's currently hitting one eighty seven. They had to sit him down because he's been so horrendous. He got picked off first. Yeah. He made three errors in an inning.


I mean hey guys, just a complete basket case and it's so fantastic. And that's without fans. They're booing him. He's a basket case.


Yeah. It's the all the Astros. Osuna got hurt. It's just seems like the karma is going to be hitting them across the chops for a while. So that'd be fun. Although I hope they at least can be in a playoff series that we can root against them in.


Well, I don't know what I would rather have them lose in the playoffs or them not make the playoffs. I just want them to be abject failures as they have been so far. So I am loving their performance thus far. It's fantastic.


Where are they that I'm looking up where they are in the standings? I think I read, yes, they might have won last night, but I think I think I read that if the playoffs had started yesterday, they were on the outside looking in.


Yeah. They're even with this new team. Right, right. Kadak Cardinals thing is so weird. Chicago's winning their division twelve and three, and then St. Louis is second place at two and three. Right. They had that. And then Cincinnati try them at eight and ten. I don't even know how they come up with the standings through that.


All right. Big, big, big political news this week. I don't know if you saw it. Yeah, yeah.


I've read about Kamala Harris being named the VP by Joe Biden and Kamiar. Yeah, I'm sure you were reading all this stuff and this thing. What jumped out to the reactions?


Well well, what jumped out at me, the reactions and what I am amazed by is, is the juggernaut that is the Trump campaign's response to trying to run back basically birther ism that he did against Obama alleging because. Well, I don't even know what they're alleging. I mean, she was born in Oakland, California, I guess the fact that her parents maybe were immigrants, but she was born in this country. And as far as I know, her parents were citizens is completely a non issue.


And that's what they've chosen to raise with her. Apparently, right before we did this podcast, he had some press conference or press availability. And he's like, well, I understand she's not eligible, but I don't know about that, you know, classic classic Trump. Some people are saying our questions are being asked generically. So, like, you know, you could you know, she I can understand why the Democratic base is excited about her.


She she tickles all the right buttons for the Democratic base in terms of her just her like her policies, everything that she supports, everything she is like is the modern Democratic Party base. But, you know, as a nominally effective campaign, the Trump campaign should challenge her on the issues or hear her experience or her previous things she said about Joe Biden during the course of the primary and the fact that they come out on day one basically and have some bullshit thing about, like her citizenship.


Like like if I was a Trump supporter or a Trump donor, I'd be like, who the fuck are these idiots that are running things? Like, this is the worst possible fucking reaction you can have. And it plays into every fucking stereotype about racism with Trump. And maybe it's a stereotype for a reason because he's a fucking lunatic conspiracy monger and this is what he lives for.


Right? I wouldn't even say it's a stereotype. Maybe it's just the type. It's just the type.


Right. So that, like, in terms of Mireia, you know, the reaction to it. And of course, the you know, the media is absolutely head over heels in love with her and gleeful because, you know, that's their natural inclination is to side with with the Democrats. And she's a perfect Democrat. You know, poor Joe Biden is going to be completely overshadowed by her because, you know, he's not just yesterday's news. He's he's last week's last year's news because he's been around forever and she's in more new face on the national scene, certainly, and and cogent him.


So, you know, she she's going to be like this. She's going to be the superstar of the race, really for him. And poor Joe is finally going to, you know, likely to get in to finally get the get in the White House. And, you know, they're going to he's just going to sit there while she's making policy and really the face of the administration.


I think it almost feels like in football, like when the chief said Alex Smith and they drafted Mahomes, they knew Mahomes is going to be the guy, but they still had to pretend that year. Alex Matt was like their starting quarterback. She does have that feel to it where he's kind of holding the seat for how many years? I don't know.


It could be nine months maybe. He say in June 2012, like, hey, my house. That good about it?


Over there was a Twitter, there was a Twitter thing. I saw a couple of different places. I think multiple people made the same joke, but it basically was like, you know, fake news thing and it said Kamala Harris already vetting vice presidential candidates. And it's funny because it's like most things that are funny, it has a ring of plausibility to it because, you know, it's I mean, certainly if Biden wins the likelihood of him running again in twenty twenty four, I would say is slim to none.


Right. Yeah, right. Thanks. It's a one term. Yeah. And I mean, you're never going to come out and and say, look, I'm not running again. I mean he's sort of between the lines sort of intimated that. But you would never want to come out and say that because you go in as a lame duck and you get totally rolled by Congress. So you have to at least have the plausibility of running again. But the reality is, you know, he's seventy seven years old and he's not getting any younger.


He's he's not going to run for re-election. He's eighty one. And he figures he's picking up the mantle to take Trump out of office. And after that, once he gets in and Trump's gone, you know, he turns it over to Comilla and the next generation. So she will effectively run the show, I think. And, you know, you would think like there was some stories where he he you know, he's wanted to be president since about nineteen seventy two.


And he didn't want a vice president that was going to overshadow him. So he there was some talk about, you know, some of these Congress people that didn't have a national reputation and thought that he wouldn't outshine him. And that's why he didn't want to go with Comilla. But by going with her, he was just like, man, whatever, I guess. Or they told him that's who to pick. That's what he did.


Just like, wait, was that the lady who kept insulting me during the debates and said she believed my accusers exactly the same. Is that same one. Yeah, I'm with you. It, I, I thought she was the right back. Oh yeah. But I thought for sure the first 48 hours after that, the Trump side which is bringing up those two things. Right. All the stuff she did debate and then the fact that she the stuff she said about his accusers and how she believed them, it would just seem like you would just grab on to that for a week.


I was like, this is. Great, this landed at our laps. Let's try to create a divide and then step right with the birther is something which is horseshit. I mean, it's a steaming pile of horseshit. And like, yeah, if you were competent campaign, it's exactly it would do is try to divide, put a divide between those two and make them answer some uncomfortable questions like why did you intimate that he was a racist and supported but not the intimate.


You said he outright voted for busing in the 70s and segregation and he hung around with all these segregationists in the Senate and sung their praises. And now, like, we're just going to forget about that.


And you're like that. Where do I draw it?


You know, like those are fair questions to ask. Of course, the media is not going to ask them because they're talking about what a radiant smile she has. And that was on the front page, The New York Times. But, you know, somebody would ask those questions or the questions would be raised by a company campaign to at least maybe put their feet to the fire. But, you know, you have the buffoon in chief and he loves conspiracy things and and horseshit.


And that's what he's going to, you know, delve into. It's ridiculous.


Do you think Trump is crazier now than he was three years ago or or do you think he was this crazy three years ago and we just hadn't fully grasped yet?


Well, I mean, you know, he's been crazy for about well, I think he's always been crazy, but he's certainly been pretty outright crazy for, like the last ten years when he started with the Obama birther stuff and really got into all the conspiracy things. And and, you know, really, if you if you look like there's no disputing that he's different now than if you watch old tapes of him being interviewed when he flirted with a presidential run in two thousand and the Reform Party.


Right. Late night, nineteen ninety nine. If you see interviews with him, like on the Today Show, he's at least comes across as semi lucid then and now he's just completely unhinged. And, you know, I don't know if he's just become a caricature or he's gotten older or because of the attacks against him or whatever that he's really like just losing it. But I think he, you know, he comes across as crazier now. And you would I mean, the goal was, you know, the mainstream of the Republican Party, the establishment, such as it is, they were like, well, once he becomes president or once he gets the nomination, he can sort of come into our clutches and we will mold him into like a presidential material and the weight of the office will come catch up to him and he will feel the majesty of it and act presidential.


And then, like Joe Scarborough, murdered an intern. And you're just, you know, so I don't think he has become anywhere near presidential. And now he's said this morning he had some tweet about like, you know, Joe Scarborough is ratings and his ditzy wife. And it's like just what adult like says things like that, you know, like publicly, you know, you people always talk shit, I'm sure about like couples. They're friends with their neighbors or they're catty about things.


But like, you're the fucking press. The United States, like, don't don't call some woman a ditzy wife or whatever. I mean, it's just it's just unbecoming at the end of the day. And it's just it's embarrassing for the country, just like, you know, it's just it's so childish. It's like a child is running the show. It's frightening. It seems like we fit this new stage of politics where whoever is supporting Trump, it's not even that they support Trump, they just hate the other side so much that they care about.


And then the side that's on the Democrat side, they didn't even care who's right. And they just they hate Trump so much. They want him out. And, you know, I don't know what it was like in that in that eighteen fifties, nineteen sixties that made two halves of the country turn out each other to the point that they started fighting for five, six years. But I can't imagine that there was like a lot more hate than there is right now between those two sides.


Like there's real hatred now and it's really scary.


Well, you know, like like most things, it can be like most things that can be blamed on the Internet, I think, because before, like, you know, if you were a kook or whatever or there was some kook, you know, like there was a thing in the 50s, in the 60s, the John Birch Society. Yeah. They were a virulently anti-communist organization. When people when there was a move to put fluoride into the water, things like that, they would claim it was a communist plot.


And they started to sort of infiltrate the more mainstream conservative movement. And William F. Buckley Jr., who was sort of the head of that, he did a famous thing to get rid of, like the kooks of the John Birch Society and like denounce them and and denounce various elements like that to sort of keep it above board now with the Internet and like kookery like this Kuhnen thing and everything which trumps, dabbles with and puts his foot in, it's much more prevalent on the Internet.


And so you develop this hate and it's like every, like, miscue from one side is then amplified. And it's like the very country is at stake. The fate of the country depends on Donald Trump, you know, or depends on Joe Biden. Like it used to be that elections. Yeah. You had your views and your principles. You wanted your side to win, but it wasn't like life or death for the country if the other side gets in.


You know, I notice from the Reddit conspiracy board, which is the only Reddit board I go to do, I do go to the MTV Challenge Board sometimes. But the the the Eppstein thing has sent that conspiracy board into like just a complete Tasi like Maxwell. And there's rumors that she might have been a moderator on one of the Reddit boards because that this person who did a whole bunch of posts. All of a sudden, stop posting right when she got arrested and but there's this whole cabal of pedophiles and people in positions and they, like, really believe this.


And I don't even know if it's it's I know, by the way, who knows, like the fucking Eppstein Island, like you could believe you could tell me anything at this point, I kind of believe it. And then you have troub going like. But I would say that Maxwell I wish her well.


Yeah. I wish you well.


Wish her well like five times away wishing her well. She was the man for a serial pedophile. She's kind of what's going on. Right. Know. Are you sure.


I think he is such an idiot and it's just like, you know, she used to go to Mar a Lago or whatever. And so he was like, oh, that's my old friend from our logo. I wish her well. I really do. Like she's in jail for being an alleged pedophile moron, you know.


So she's she's like the Heidi Fleiss of pedophilia, right? She she was the arranger. Yeah. Allegedly. Allegedly, allegedly.


As we don't want to get sued by Gilbert Maxwell, she made a few mistakes, but she's got a show. I have a feeling like she's going to have an accident in a jail cell in the next six weeks. Well, they just had a thing like that. She just took her life.


They announced this week, actually, that the jail just took her off suicide watch. I was like, oh, good. There we go. That's good. That's good. Yeah, that's good to announce that to so good. The royal family's assassins are like, OK, boys. Yes. Objet, allegedly the royal family, the two.


The two the two guys who watch yourself there, like Tony Jack. You didn't hear we changed the schedule. You guys are actually I think. Oh really? I didn't nobody told us. And then all of a sudden, three hours later. Right.


I mean, you know, and even you don't have to be an insane person with to look at the Eppstein thing and say, like, you know, this guy hung out with everybody who was anybody and it did all kinds of shady shit. He gets arrested, he tries to commit suicide, allegedly. And then a couple of days later, they take him off suicide watch and then he dies. And then then mysteriously, the video for that night just happens to have been accidentally erased.


Nobody gets there's no no side of it. I mean, come on. You mean come on. I'm not a big conspiracy believer, but you don't have to be a lunatic to say something hinky with that.


You know, I love that case that he did commit suicide. It's like you don't understand. Jeffrey led a very lavish life. And, yeah, he he's in jail. And the conditions, you just couldn't take it. It's like, OK, that's great. Ryan, as you know, I, I do love all the conspiracy stuff, but I don't actually believe in a lot of conspiracies that anyone has never sat right with me, that it's just it was too predictable.


And then when it happened, it was like, you know, everybody think the funny thing is conspiracies for people that don't believe in conspiracies, like that's like solid. Look, if you took a poll on that, I guarantee it's over. Seventy five percent that don't believe he committed suicide. I guarantee it.


Well, what do you think of the conspiracy that there's so much more bad stuff coming out that the government decided to start leaking UFO stuff to cover that off, throw people at the SEC, get them talking about stuff?


I mean, they dropped all these UFO bombshells like UFOs exist. We've been tracking this for a while here. A couple of examples. And it's been such a crazy year. People were like, all right, cool UFOs. And just imagine just imagine it's in college in like ninety one. If that report came out, we how we would have talked about for like three weeks. If you like the thing about the UFO thing, like if that is true, that there are.


Machines, spacecraft, some devices which are not of earthly origin. It changes the entire history of human civilization like that's how big. Yeah, yeah. Like it's not just like, oh, boy. Like, that's you know, the Astros were cheating at baseball. Again, changes human civilization. The entire history of the planet is different than we've been told.


Well, on top of that, we might be a danger like that to where we're being rather than fucking aliens are coming into the alien movies people have made. Maybe one of them is actually going to happen to us.


Well, I mean, that's the theory of why the government covered it up. Allegedly. We're using a lot of allegedly why the government allegedly covered this up for so many years is because all the governments in the world did not want to admit that there was something that they couldn't do anything about. Right. So if they're like there's these things that have much higher advanced technology than us that are, you know, weapons of war machines are worthless against them.


And then they're like, hey, good luck, everybody. Like there just be mass anarchy in the streets. So, yeah, well, maybe that's where we're headed. Maybe I just want to get a basketball champion first and then back in maybe mid-November.


I don't want to be picky, but can we say that tell you about that. Who wins the title?


I mean, you know, we got baseball, potentially some some form of football coming back. You got basketball and hockey championships. You got the Masters in November. Maybe the aliens can hold off until January, you know.


Yeah, that'll be nice. Maybe after Christmas, start the new year fresh. Get us the twenty one. Well, this election will be happening for seven months because they're going to screw up all the mail and votes and that that'll be a whole saga. Oh it's going to be like a thousand multiplied by a million. Right.


I mean there are some theory where where Trump does not really want to win, where he's like this president thing is hard, like this pandemic. It's hard. Like he doesn't want the heat anymore. You know, he's stuck in Washington. He's he can't be at Mar a Lago all the time. He can't play golf every day. And he's always under the shadow. And he's always got to, like, answer questions and he hates it. But what he really wants is to lose, but then have like a stabbed in the back theory.


Yeah, he can go start like his TV network to rival Fox News or CNN or whatever this thing is, start the Trump News Network and like just sit there and pontificate and say how it was stolen from him and it was illegal and slow. Joe and Sleepy Joe, they stole it. And, you know, Kimmel is not a citizen and he can just have a TV channel dedicated to him and his thoughts such as they are. And that would be the perfect ending for him.


It gets him out from under the of being the president and it gives him something to bitch about for the rest of his life.


So you bring our podcast for him. Should we call it? Could be.


He is a big sports guy.


I mean, yeah, he loves sports. It's always all sports time. Francesa there you go. Right into that. Francesa doing his NFL picks is Trump just insults the different players, the that the Buffalo Bills. Josh, a good guy, good American guy, stands for the anthem, loves this country. Absolutely no. Good. There you go. That's a winner for you. Well, right now it is. Basically mid-August, yeah. So we got to I mean, we're less than three months away now, it just feels so off because we haven't had.


We haven't had like we're not having that campaign cycle in places we haven't had debate yet. Nothing.


No, Trump can't have his rallies and there's not really like traditional conventions because even even Trump like past not having an in-person Republican convention. So they're both both going to be like virtual. That's going to be a weird thing because usually that's like a, you know, week long TV event leading up to the presidential and vice presidential nominees. And now it's going to be awkward like Zoome things or so you think that that's really how they're going to do it.


They're going to debate, but they're not going to be in the same room.


No, no, no, no. I'm talking about the conventions. No, no, no. The debates will they'll be in the same room. I think they'll both get tested. They're both going to die out on some stage together or whatever. Yeah. And no, my God. And Penson Kamala will, too. I think I think the vice presidential one is in Utah. And there's going to be, I guess, like two or three presidential debates.


Yeah. So, no, they're going to have those in person. So we'll have that spectacle.


But and spectacle, it will be pantsing Comilla at Carmelites like a minus seven hundred favored in that one. Oh no question.


He's going to be working them like a it might actually be like, like homestyle, it could be just ten rounds of just like people wondering when it's going to get stopped, throw the towel or are they absolutely fine.


And sure I worry about Biden and the Biden trip. Well, is the thing all these people keep saying, like, well, Biden doesn't want to debate and Trump's going to eat him for breakfast. I mean, Trump is not a Mensa candidate here.


I'm not talking about one of the all time great Whitsun thinkers of all time, you know? So like, yeah, OK. Trump's going to say something like, you know, snotty to him and call him a name. And Joe's going to look confused. But, you know, I'm not sure that's going to be like this slam dunk, like, you know, when Trump does this, like Joe should take the same test. I took a woman plant, animal movie camera, whatever, you know, like the dimensioned test, like Trump is no, great.


He's not Einstein out there. You know, he's going to run rings around Biden. They know it's nuts. Man, I just chose Joe just needs to seven three decent hours. Well, that's I mean, that's the thing, all Joe has to be really is not Trump, you know, and like the the problem that the Trump campaign has is, is four years ago, Hillary Clinton was and is a very unpopular figure. Now, you could you could debate why that is.


But she she's been in the landscape since nineteen ninety one ish. And she's a very polarizing figure, let's put it that way. So there was a certain number of allegedly now allegedly and that was, that was confirmed. There was a certain number of people that held their nose and voted for Trump because he wasn't her.


Yeah. Joe Biden, you know, Biden might not know what day of the week it is, but people like even even I think hard core Republicans don't think that Joe is like the Antichrist. You know, he's like affable, old, like, you know, I was with him one time, not not with him. But I, I, I was at this Irish festival in Connecticut with my wife, and Joe Lieberman was running for re-election and he came to shake hands and Joe Biden was there and he was like a classic politician.


He had the whitest teeth of anybody I've ever seen in my life. He I think he used about five crest white strips that morning. And he's like a glad hander and like an old time pal. And you're like, oh, it's Joe Biden. Like, you don't feel threatened by him in any way, shape or form. He's not as polarizing. So it was easy for Trump to be Trump. And then it was like, we have it's either me or her.


And people were like, well, I guess he's better. And we'll give it a shot with a businessman. But with with Joe, they can't really demonize him. You know, like, look at me. I'm calling him Joe, like, you know, he's my uncle or better. And I'm not going to vote for him or Trump either way, because, you know, I'm not I don't support Biden's policies. But so their goal is to make Biden, the people around Biden scary that he you know, Joe does know where he is and they're going to really run things and they're like antifa or whatever.


So it just doesn't seem to be selling because Trump is so horrible to most people that they're just not you know, they're going to go for Joe. I think, by and large. Yeah, they're going to make it seem like Joe's staff is like the staff in that movie days where he's just got, like, evil Frank Langella people, you know, people we don't know, making all the agendas and stuff like that, like the ghost of Karl Marx is running the show or whatever.


So but I don't know that it's going to work. And even if even if Joe comes out and falls down, you know, I don't know that it's really going to make a huge difference in the debates. I don't know if they're going to because everybody's views, like you say, we're so polarized and everybody's so locked into their thing. I'm not sure what Joe could say, really, that would really make him blow up in a debate. I mean, it's the simpler times of the 90s when we could argue about politics for 20 minutes and you get mad and then we would just have a beer and move on to something else.


Not just now. People fight to the death, right? Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And I have like, you know, I have no fight in me because my team, like, you know, went completely off the rails and like, it's just it's all it's like the Wailers all over again.


Yeah, right. That's right. They will take care of the hurricane. That's right. They did. They got take it. Yeah, that's right. It's a good, good analogy. They got blown by blown over by a hurricane too. Yeah, exactly.


Jackie. Great to see you. I'm glad you have power back finally. Yes. Thank you. Me too. It was a rough couple of days there. We'll check in with you a couple of weeks.


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