Coming up, I'm gonna bat around a 2025 NBA trade value list with Brian Russillo. It's fun. It's next. We're also brought to you by The Ringer Podcast Network where I put up a new rewatchables on Monday night. We did Before Sunrise, 30th anniversary of a movie that I love very much.

Me, Chris Ryan, Sean, Fantasy. You can watch it on the Ringer Movies YouTube channel as well. You can watch all the videos and clips from this podcast on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. Russillo came on. We started taping this, late morning on Tuesday.

I'm trying to figure out my annual trade value list that we're gonna run on ringer.com, so I brought in Russillo as my conciliatory. As we're taping, Sham Shirania breaks the news that Sacramento is now ready to explore De'Aaron Fox trades, which, of course, we did not talk about even though this trade value podcast is almost 2 hours long. I'll let you guess where Fox was in the rankings, but let's just say he was in the top 25, for trades, Miami. Maybe I think Butler has to be in it and a bunch of picks and, god only knows what else or maybe maybe it's built around Tyler Herron picks, but Miami jumped out to me as a possibility. Brooklyn, if they wanna trade some of their, some of their big stuff.

And, the only thing that doesn't make sense with them is they're trying to tank this year, but it just seems like the kind of foundational guy for them. San Antonio definitely has the pieces to try to get him, throw some pics in. They can make the contracts work and then, try to pair him with Wembley. And then Houston, which we talk about in this podcast you're about to hear, which I think Houston's gonna be afraid to do a major move, but they certainly have the pieces that they wanna go get Fox, which I've been talking about for 6 weeks. If they wanted to turn VanVleet and a bunch of their picks and maybe, you know, Cam Whitmore to make the contracts work and, and just try to go all in and get him and add him to the team, it would be risky because they're playing really well right now.

But those were the ones that jumped out. Other than that, I don't really see a fit, but I guess I guess we'll see. So, Darren Fox, I'm Trade Black. You're about to listen to the trade value breakdown for 2,000 25. This is where we're gonna sort of finalist.

Rosillo is here. It's all next. First, our friends from Progyny. Alright. We're taping this late Tuesday morning Pacific time.

Ryan Russillo is here. It's been a while for us. Once, once we get through football season, we're gonna be doing Sunday nights again, talking hoops and a whole bunch of other stuff. But I'm bringing you in right now, Russillo, as the trade value list conciliary. A thing that I have now been doing for 25 years, a quarter of a century, the trade values list, which is not a rankings.

It's a trade asset list. Trying to figure out who the biggest trade asset in the NBA is. But before we do that, what what side are you on in Jimmy Butler versus Miami? Do we have to pick a side? Yeah.

I think we do. Is this 1 of those things where you just have to go 1 side or the other?

Yeah. I I like to have an open mind about a lot of things, but I think deep down my core, I know I probably already know which direction I'm going. But he just wanted the contract that he's not getting. So what I mean, unless there was a promise I mean, everybody knows Harden's not my favorite guy, but I kinda sided with Harden on the end of the Philly thing because why would he have taken the pay cut? Why would he have done everything he had done?

Yeah. And then it's like and I know Philly's gonna say, nothing was ever agreed upon. You're totally wrong. Alright. That's fine.

But he did something that didn't really make a ton of sense at the time to allow flexibility, then he didn't get a deal. So in that 1, I was like, well, even though I'm not definitive, by the way, I can understand him being upset with this 1. I mean, do have you heard anything that you believe? That's probably the important second part. Have you heard anything that you believe that would let you think that Miami would have been in a hurry to extend somebody like Butler who's 35 and misses a

lot of games? And had a contract for this year and a player option for next year. I think that's the unusual part about it is that there was real years on the book left. I I really feel like I wanna pick a side, but I kinda see both sides. Because What's Butler's side?

Give give me the anti Miami Heat side.

I think Butler's side is his relationship has been bad with the Heat for a couple years, and he took them to the finals in 20,021,023. And I think at some point, he felt like, you know, I brought you guys here. You guys tried to embarrass me in the press conference last year. You won't talk about an extension. You obviously don't care if I'm here 2 years from now.

So what's the point of this? With that said, I don't think he's handled it well either. You know? I I I think a lot of us, including me and you, have been in, you know, some pretty hairy professional situations where you ended up not liking people you worked with or the employer you had. And at some point, you still have to kinda do your job.

And I think that's where it's tough to side with him. On the Miami side, they Riley just seems like he's tried to antagonize him and and alpha dog him in a bunch of different ways. In ways that if you knew anything about Jimmy Butler, it's like, you get on this road and there's no going back. So I see both sides. But I will say this, they he's they've torpedoed his trade value at this point.

I mean, I I think you could just get him now for 2 expirings, and they're like, good. Take them. Because they're so worried he's gonna opt into next year. The start of the season, I was thinking Houston should do Amen Thompson and VanVleet, and let's go all in and try I I mean, we'll talk about Amen Thompson later, but to think like that that was maybe an argument at the beginning of the season versus where we are now, where it's like, ah, with Detroit give up Tobias Harris and Tim Hardaway for Butler and that's it? I don't know.

Tobias is playing pretty well. Like, that's where we're at with this Butler thing, which is insane.

You might be right about that, and I think there's there's a bunch of different things there that I like. I've never been special enough, to compare myself with Jimmy Butler. Right? Like, I've and I'm not I'm not saying this because whatever our dynamic is, but your career, like, I think at times, you have been special enough to probably get away with.

That that that we don't have to I'm not comparing ourselves to him in that way. I'm just comparing, like, what it's like to work for somebody when you're really frustrated with them. He's way more frustrated, I think, than either of us have ever been with anyone we worked with. Like, he's doing shit. But he's doing stuff that he's doing stuff that, you know, that's that's just seems like he's trying to sabotage everything.

Well, right. When the first quote came out when this thing first got picked up, it was like, Jimmy hasn't even started yet, which I was like, yeah, because we know the deal. You know, I think a lot of this stuff is, like, personal equity where if, like, Tim Duncan ever had a problem with anything, I think we'd all immediately take Tim Duncan's side. Like, you just go, woah. Like, Tim Duncan's upset about something?

And with Butler, even though I think there's there's a version of the Chicago events where I would understand him, I thought the Wiggins towns thing at the time was funny because I don't think he was wrong. Philadelphia decided to go with the young guys. So, you know, every exit, there's some drama. But with this, there's another part of this that is just the reality of what's happening. This new CBA, when we first talked about it, you're like, man.

This kinda looks like a hard cap. This this looks like there's really limited flexibility. I think another motivation behind some of this was that, hey. Guess what? If you have a 4 year extension about to kick in, and you wanna ask for a trade, and you wanna ask for a trade to, like, 1 team that's already pretty good, we're gonna set up something that not only curbs spending, which is the primary motivation behind this, but we're also gonna, like, make it really hard for you guys to decide, like, sorry.

I'm just out of here now, and you have to do this. And I think that a lot of star players

Good point.

It's becoming a wake up call. And when you're 35 and you miss a lot of games and your personal history is that it ends up in some sort of bullshit thing that's a distraction for the basketball team, like, no kidding there's not a great market for them.

Well, you think, like, he in the old days, I wanna go to Phoenix. Alright. How are we and then they spent 3 weeks. Now it's like, yeah. You're not going to Phoenix.

Guess what? We're not taking Bradley Beal. We're not. There's no scenario where we take him. Nobody else is taking them.

And on top of the Bradley Beals, there's no trade clause. So Phoenix is out. Stop saying you wanna go there. I think it's at the spike point where they just send them, you know, this last thing that happened this week. Now it just seems like those they don't even care.

They just wanna get them out of there and and try to move on. I think it's gotten that bad. So it he couldn't really be another team.

Yeah. I don't know why they'd wanna be in the Jimmy Butler business.

I I think

I can't dispute the fact of, like, whatever the trademark it was for him versus now. It's it's diminished because you're like, here we go again, and it's all fresh. And when it's actually happening, and then you have to sit in their front office and your ownership and your coaches and go like like, I like the Memphis basketball part of it. But then when you hear the quote being like, don't send him to Memphis, like, anywhere but Memphis.

Right.

So if you're Memphis and you're like, hey. We're pretty good. We're not great, but we're pretty good. So, yeah, he raises our top 5 ceiling, which I think a lot of teams just do. Like, hey.

If these are the 5 guys who are rolling out there to close a playoff game, this is better than the 5 we have right now. It makes sense. But if you're like, what if he opts in at 50,000,000 and then he's 36 and we don't give him an extension? So even though

I I've not there's only 1 team. Right. There's Well You have to be desperate to do this. And, like, taking pushing the Detroit's aside and teams out, like, oh, it'd be fun if they got Jimmy Butler. Golden State's the only team that's actually desperate.

Golden State is at an actual crossroads as a franchise, as an organization for the decade. You know, the the they're just not good enough. And the stat that they're 1 in 20 heading into the Q4 when they're not winning, to me, that's like, we gotta go 1 way or the other, guys. Are we gonna try to get better and do some sort of crazy all in trade, or are we gonna start going the other way and start trading off people and just tanking this season and throwing it away, and and do we go that way? But you right now, they're in some middle ground.

And that's where, like, you know, if you and I are in the Warriors office with the Lake Hopes and the GM, and they're like, what do you guys think? At some point, I'd be like, look, man. I think when Jimmy gets traded, he's gonna be really good. I think he's gonna be possessed, and you might get an awesome year out of him, and this is the only way you could flip your destiny as a franchise. You might be able to get this guy for 12¢ on the dollar.

And in a playoff series, nobody's gonna wanna see him. Do you 2 years from now, do you care? 2 years from now, you're going nowhere anyway. So that's the 1 team I think I could see. And there's trades.

They have a bunch of contracts. Wiggins would have to be in it, but, that's the only 1 I see.

I just would be scared to death if I'm done leaving and I'm late, and I'm going, okay. So we bring him in. Everything he made sent said made sense, but, you know, his agent's like, okay. So, you know, what do you think about tacking on those 2 years for him? It's a no.

And so if it's a no

The bigger question is that just gone now based on how this year has gone? Like, hey. His agent's Bernie Lee, who's a very nice guy. Hey, Bernie. Jimmy's in every 2 years contract at this point.

That's just the way it is. There's nobody in the league that's gonna go forward for him based on the behavior. That's that's what he's forfeited. On the bright side, if he's still really good, every 2 years, he'll get an awesome contract. I think he's in that James Harden kinda zone now where it's, like, 3 years.

2, he doesn't play enough for me. It's a no. Yeah. And and you're right about the basketball part of it, whether it's them, whether it's Memphis, because it does raise your suit. But if if I have to sit there and be honest with the people that are in charge of my employment, right, if you're working in the front office side of this answering to your owner and going, yeah.

Let's just trust that it's gonna work out with his track record, I wouldn't feel good about saying yes to that. I would just go, like, look. It prop it'd be 1 thing if he was younger and you go, hey. Maybe the west isn't and it isn't as deep or doesn't feel as deep halfway through the season as we thought it would be this summer. OKC still looks like a monster.

I mean, we can run through every team, and I could tell you concerns I have about all the contenders, but it would have to be more of, like, a guarantee of what's possible. And even adding him doesn't like, what does it actually guarantee about what Golden State can do in the playoffs?

The only reason you do it is because you love Curry. You feel like you owe it to him to at least be competitive for a couple rounds, and this is a way to honor that. That's it. You're not beating you're not winning 4 straight playoff rounds with or without Jimmy Butler, I don't think.

Let me let me throw something at you here because you mentioned it with the Riley thing, and they felt, like, really betrayed by Riley being upset when Butler was basically, like, if I was playing, we'd beat Boston. We beat the next final way. They weren't beating that Boston team last year or last playoffs

with Butler.

So it was kind of a crazy thing. And then I think about, like, Riley's age. He's the same age as my dad. I'm like, imagine if my dad had to do a press conference about a player.

I'm so glad you brought this up. Riley's old. Like, hey. He's acting erratically, which makes sense because he's, like, 80. 80 year olds are erratic.

I went to go see Gilles and Bill Burr last night for the fire benefit, and Gilles had this whole routine of, like, you know, Biden didn't really get enough credit. Like, imagine imagine if you had someone in your family who was 84 who had to, like, go out there and speak to the world. Like, 80 Every day. Could've been that much worse. Now, look, Riley, at no point do I think, like, what's going on with this guy?

But he deserves like, Riley's done enough in his basketball life to have this stance. And then when I think about, like, how other teams operate, everybody operates in absolute fear where they have to when their best player goes off, they have to find some way through PR to craft some way that they're supportive. But it's like so what so what happened? What if Riley had said nothing? The bottom line is if they didn't give him the contract extension, they'd probably be in the exact same place.

So, like, you can tell me that it was insulting or that that was the thing that I don't when he didn't get the extension, when he felt like he was owed this like, why? Because you went to the finals 2 years ago, which was, like, really fluky. And what? 5 years ago?

Year last year, which is

And he doesn't play

he doesn't

play enough. And look. When he was playing this year, you could see you're like, what's going on with him? Like, before this even got, like, publicly bad, it's like, so you want the extension, but you're gonna mail it in for stretches?

Yeah. I almost feel like he's coasting until the trade. And when he gets traded to wherever, he's gonna unleash holy hell. That's why the Detroit option is so fascinating to me for him because that's a that's a team that would actually need him. That's a team that just wants to be good, relevant in some way, and that's a team that has a really, really good player, You know?

And they bring some things to the table. They're pretty well coached. He raises their ceiling in a way that I think is intriguing. They're not gonna win the title with him, and I think that's why where whoever is trading for him is not a team that he can win the title with, and I think that's another reality of this. Like, Denver is not trading for him.

Even if even if Miami is like, alright. Fine. We'll take Porter and we'll take Zeke Naji for 4 years. You can have Butler. I don't know if that changes Denver ceiling.

Like, they're gonna have enough outside shooting problems. You know? If they were playing worse, I might think about it, but I actually really like the way they're playing even though they lost last night. We'll see what happens.

You're totally you're totally ruling out Phoenix.

I don't think anyone wants Beal. And even if they wanted Beal, I don't know if he would agree to go to the trade. But I I watched the game last night. Like, I just don't think Beal's good. He's fine.

Like, he's he's a rotation guy. But for 50,000,000 a year, that's the worst contract in the league. What am I and he doesn't play every time. You know? I think there's a reason, like, Phil like, Phoenix has tried to move away from that big 3 model with him.

And I think there's a reason everybody is like, yeah. No. Thanks. Cool. Oh, I get Bradley Beal this year and the next 2?

No. Thanks. Like, everyone throws Chicago and, you know, oh, could he go to Milwaukee? Why would Milwaukee want Bradley Beal? They're gonna have him and Dame at the same time trying to play defense?

That that's crazy. I just can't find a team for him either.

I guess I just wonder why Phoenix would flip the unprotected 2031 for these other pieces without some inclination of what's possible for him before the deadline. Unless it was just, hey. We're all in now. Like, when you have Durant, you're all in. So is Beal better than mid level players?

Yes. He's really low on what the actual acquisition cost

is using

control. Yeah.

That trade was horrible. That was the all time we took a $2 bill and turned it into 3 quarters and a dime because it gives us more flexibility. It's like like, that's a team that they're at the blackjack table losing handouts. They're not going. Give me more.

I'm gonna double down.

Oh, you're can can I

borrow your

shit? Trade? Yeah.

Yeah. The actual Phoenix trade. You're acting like Phoenix is a rational team that puts thought into the shit they do. That trade was idiotic. I'm not trading anything.

Nothing because they have nothing and they're already all in with this group, I think the argument is that, well, like, what are we doing? We're we're gonna hold on to assets in 2031. Like, we have to find any possible way to upgrade this group because once you did the Durant trade, this is this is how you were operating.

Yeah. But at that point, you're Tim Daley's character in The Sopranos, the screenwriter, who's on the 48 hour gambling binge just getting killed, and he's like, just give me 25 grand more. I'm gonna win this back. That's Phil that's Phoenix and there's beer right now. Just give me let's put the picks up.

We'll have some flexibility. We'll try to win this back. It's like, this ship has sailed. You're not you're not doing anything, and you're not getting Jimmy Butler for what you have. And if if anyone takes Bradley Beal and allows you to get Jimmy Butler, I can't imagine a team in the league that's dumb enough.

Maybe I'll be wrong. Maybe they'll cut this clip out and be like, like, I don't see why anybody would want Bradley Beal. 50,000,000 this year, 50,000,000 the next 2 in a in the second April era. Who wants that?

I'd be fast in the deal. Like, what he would actually waive his no trade clause for. Because this is somebody who actually didn't go to Washington the entire time they lost. Like, we kept waiting for that to happen, and then I remember hearing that he's probably just gonna wait until he can get that 5 year extension with them is the incumbent team, and he is okay with just kind of being there. And then I wonder if Beal goes, you think I'm upset about coming off the bench?

You think I'm upset about taking 13 shots a game?

Yeah.

Like, I like I like it here. I like Phoenix. My family likes Phoenix.

Yeah. You can't Yeah. Yeah. You can't humiliate

me. I'm good. I was I stayed with the Wizards for years on purpose. You think this bugs me?

I just called my accountant. I just can't believe how much money I'm gonna make the rest of the year. I'm fine. Let's take a break. We gotta talk Trey by the FanDuel kick of Destiny is back, and this time, it's every manning for himself.

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See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Gamby problem called 1 a 100 Gamble or visit rgdashhelp.com. Alright. So the trade value rules really quickly. It's not this is not a top 100 list.

This has to do with age of the players, salaries mattering, contract length, happiness, and degrees. Right? So it's if you're talking about, 1 player that's 35 versus an up and coming star that's 23, as crazy Ahman Thompson's a good example. Yeah. Ahman Thompson for Kevin Durant.

If it was just this year, maybe you'd want Kevin Durant for the playoff run. But big picture as an asset for your team, for age, rookie contract, the whole thing, you'd want Alman Thompson. You'd wanna be in the business of him for the next 15 years. So that's a good way to think about it.

It's also a great name, just to interrupt quickly, because after last night, I was like, will he have a man in his top 10?

Well, here's the thing. So I've been working on this list for 2 weeks, and there was a version of it a couple days ago where I had him 20. And I emailed it to a friend of mine, and I was like, does anything jump out? And he's like, Jesus. You have Thompson that high?

And I'm like, I actually do. I I like, I don't know if you watched the last 4 weeks, but what's happening here is is really, really, really crazy. The athleticism, the defense, the rebounding, the fact that he's starting to figure out how to create his own shot, how to beat guys off the dribbling. Did he to win the game in Boston last night? Like, what happened in Boston last night wasn't like, oh my god.

What a great game. Like, he's been moving this way for 5 weeks, and he's the best asset on that team, and it's not close. I think he's an automatic hang up if you call Houston now. They don't need they're like, what? No.

We're not trading him, and they hang up.

This is a compliment, but imagine when he's good.

Right. Imagine when he could shoot threes. Right. And I don't know

if he's he's gonna be, like, somebody you're really worried about, but there are things that he's doing. Like, he was even the last again, you're right. It wasn't just about last night against Boston. You're looking at these rebounding numbers, but also and I like it even though it doesn't look great. Like, they're letting him get into kind of a pull up jumper, and it doesn't look very good.

But I like that they're allowing him or they would want him to make those mistakes because you're never gonna develop any of that stuff. You're never gonna become the best version of yourself, the most well rounded if you're afraid to do that stuff in game. Like, it's the old Ben Simmons thing where it's like cool videos, bro. But you don't do any of those things that you show us in practice because you just you've eliminated those from your arsenal because you're just not comfortable. And I love to see young players, especially somebody who's raw as him.

And when you did the draft work on him, you're like, man. He's such an insane athlete. And this is why people draft guys like this, and then they get mad being like, oh, they just drafted the athlete. And you're like, yeah. But this is this is the version of, like, the best case scenario of, like, if this guy ever figures it out with his gifts and the fact that he's, like, a 1% athlete, I want him making some of those mistakes.

I want him pulling up off the dribble and maybe taking an ugly jumper right now because the only way it's ever gonna get better is when he's confident enough to actually apply some of this stuff in games. So it was when you sent me the list this morning, it was the first name I was looking for because because if the question is how high should he be? Right. Right.

You called him a 1% athlete. I think he's like a 0.1% athlete.

I think You're you're the best to ever do it. I don't know how No.

No. It's just like I I don't like, I do think athletically, he's on some rare plane that only a few guys I've seen have been at. Like, when we're talking, like, young Kawhi, young Pippen, Westbrook, Derrick Rose, those early years, MJ obviously. There's a it's like a very small list, and he's on it. And you saw some of the stuff he was doing on both ends last night, like, even Tatum going by him and getting, you know, lay ups or shots he want.

Thompson's always almost there, like, he almost blocks it. Like, he he really have to work to get by him. I just love watching him play, and I and I think the thing that is probably so hard to figure out when he where was he? Overtime elite? Yeah.

How do you figure out the competitiveness piece for a kid who's, like, 17 playing in some goofy league? Right? The thing that's great about him is how, like, relentlessly competitive he is. Like, I I just I'm such a huge fan. And for whatever reason Jabari got hurt, they went a little smaller with him.

It unlocked something. And now if I were them, I wouldn't trade for anybody. You know, they're a 2 seed. They've had some big wins this week. I'd I'd I would've messed with this.

Just let's get let's see how far we can go. Let's keep pushing Thompson a little bit. Let's nudge and see really what's there, short term, long term. And next year we'll figure it out or this summer. Right?

I think that's the move. Because the the wins they had this week, you really have to start thinking, but what if they did what if they did this? Could they, like, make the finals? We've seen teams, like, out of nowhere, and we've argued about this in the past. Do you have a chance to make the finals?

How far do you go? In this case, I'd probably wait because I think all their flexibility comes this summer once they can trade those Schengun and Jay McGreen deals. And so you you wanna know heading into the summer what to do.

The other thing about this trade market, it is just a hit list of guys I'm not a huge fan of. Like It really is. That's true.

It's the all stars.

Right. So Jimmy's the only 1. If if I knew he was bought in, I go, okay. You know, let's let's do this. And you can figure out, like, where he fits in because as much as they need Van Vliet, you worry a little bit about loading up on a small primary guy throughout the course of the playoffs.

You know, Brooks is so important to them, especially what he does defensively. And then Jalen is kinda like an every other night guy, And I thought he turned more that? Yeah. I know. I

Oh, yeah. I think he's a once a week guy.

Okay.

That's right now.

Because because as great as we are, like, as much fun as a man is and what he could potentially be, I still have a hard time believing you're, like, running something for him with the ball in his hands to, like, get you the bucket weight. I I don't know that he's there yet.

They did it yesterday. 4 seconds left, they ran the play for him, and they're like, just beat Jaylen Breena Jaylen Brown off the dribble and just do some crazy athlete thing. And even as he's like, what you said earlier, it's almost like the baby deer on ice thing sometimes with him on offense, where it's like, he's moving so fast he can't even control it, but he still got the shot off. Jay broke Jalen's ankles. It's the most fascinating development of the year for me as, like, when we're talking about, I'm not surprised when be ascended the way he did.

I'm not surprised SGA is having the areas. Neither of us are surprised, but I think with the Cavs. This is Thompson becoming, like, a top 20 trade asset. I did not have that on my bingo card. And I don't think I like

the Cavs. I didn't I didn't think they were gonna get off to, like, a 73 win pace, a third win.

Starting to fade a little bit finally. When it when you're shoot when you're shooting 50 40 90 for or 50 40 80 for 3 months, I'm not gonna go I won't do all, like, the honorable mentions, 2nd apron casualties. Can't believe they missed the top 80, toughest omissions. But I did send you the list. And the toughest omissions for me, I'll just rip through them quickly.

Reed Shepherd, Jaden McDaniels, Anthony Black, Clingin, Matherin, Dillingham, Beef Stew, who I love at 4 years 60, but couldn't put him on. Tara Eason, Sohan, Thompson's brother, Peyton Pritchard, Mark Williams, and Nembhard. Is there anybody that jumped out on that last 3, like, oh, man. They should've made the trade value?

No. Because I think any of these lists like, the the first thing I did when I got it was, like, don't go, oh, I can't believe you did this. Because whenever you have to do these lists, like, good luck. Like, whenever even though when I did the top 100 that I then threw away, so I wasn't able to submit it for ringer.com, Like, I had such a hard time with 11 through 30. Yeah.

Because I'd go, like, do I really think this guy is, like, a top 20 player? And you go, like, okay. Well, come up with the 20 names ahead of him. And that's the weird part of the league ranking stuff. And granted, this is different because of age and contract and all that kinda stuff, but I just the the names start to add up pretty quickly.

I think maybe Matherin just because I've loved I've loved what he's been able to do in big spots offensively.

And I like how competitive he is.

Oh, dude. He's a

real real Alfie. Like, there's no way he has to have conversations with buddies, like, where 1 of his buddies is like, yo, this should be your team, not Halliburton. He's like, I know. Just waiting. Just waiting for it to become my team.

Right. Like, would you rather have Kobe White or Matherin? I mean, on your list, you'd rather have Kobe White.

Yeah. Because I like his contract, and he puts up numbers and stats, and he plays hard. But it's a good argument. Alright. I'll I'll bold Matherin.

Maybe,

maybe there's something to do about You know, like, I like Tari better than some of the names that you have in the top 85. But Well, wait. Hold that

thought because I have to explain. Okay. Year is a top 85. It's unusual. There were years in the mid 2000 when it was a top 40, and I was barely getting to 40.

Like, barely. Like, squeezing, shoehorning names in to try to get to 40. This year, I I really probably could have done a top 100. The league is so deep. You don't really realize it until you're making a list like this.

So the top 85, the the highest group is Grupo, quality assets, and just going from 85 to 75. Nikola Vucevic, who on the right night could have 40 points. Dejounte Murray, Kuminga, Jalen Wells, Herb Jones, Jared McCain, Walker Kessler, Kobe White, Jabari Smith, Deandre Hunt Deandre Hunter has a good contract, and Cam Johnson, number 75. So that's the first group. And your question I Ethan was a tough 1 for me too because I really like him, and I didn't know if I was overrating him or not.

Yeah. I can see, like, hey. You know, what what is he? And that's kind of the stuff we're talking about here with Thompson where I tend to I don't wanna say overvalue because I don't think I'm wrong about it, but I'm gonna value the guys with the ball in their hands that can get me multiple, like, possessions. Like, hey, Cade.

Like, Cade Cunningham for me is somebody where you go, hey. Fix this. Fix us right now. Yeah. And, clearly, it's different with Detroit now that they've actually invested in spacing around him, but we'll get to Cade when we get to him.

But, like, that's always gonna be kind of, like, my default setting Yeah. Of, can you get me a bucket?

Or or can you stop the other team from getting a bucket? Or, really, like, it's that simple. Because that's the rush. I have some defense guys on this list that I'm, like, I really value the defense.

But I don't think it's a 5050 split.

I don't think it's 6040. Thanks for doing splits with me. You know, I have those percentages and splits. It might be 6139 the more I think about.

See, what is wrong with

you? 31?

Giving us flat numbers like that.

So I

was expecting, like, 63.5.

So in this quality assets list, the the hardest 1 for me, whether to include him or not, was Deshante Murray, who's got a fatter contract and whose teams never seem to do well. And I don't know whether it's his fault or not. But at some point, if you're gonna hit your thirties and this just keeps happening where every team you're on is either disappointing or underachieving and you're 1 of the main guys, I have to look at you. But, that's 1. And then Kamingo was the other 1 just because he's a free agent next year.

And I think that complicates the asset piece because if you trade for him, you also have to pay him. I put Jaylen Wells in there because he's playing big minutes for this Memphis team, and he's guarding the best guy in the other team every game. And at some point, that's that's gotta matter. Like, they're winning with him. He always has the toughest defensive assignment.

And I think for for a team relying on 2 rookies like that with ED too, like, it's been it's really unusual to see a team that's good relying on guys who this is their 1st year in the league and in, like, significant roles. Like, Haiti, come in, and we're gonna run offense through you and protect the rim. Like, it's unusual. Anyway, I real I really like Wells, so I wanna put him on there. Alright.

Next group. This group is called before the 2nd apron shit. I absolutely would've hung up, but what are you thinking? So this is, 6 guys. Number 74 Porzingis, Aaron Gordon, Damien Lillard, Zach LaVine, Drew Holiday, and Pascal Siakam.

All of them big contracts that you would have felt better about 2, 3 years ago. Did is Dame too high, too low, or just right for you?

This feels low, even if he hasn't been my favorite throughout all this. And I do wonder too, like, when we were talking about the heat at the very top, like, what if Dame had gone there and it was the same situation with Butler? Because Butler's not getting the contract with Dame be going. I just wonder if Dame at any point is going. This actually worked out better for me despite the fact that, Milwaukee, probably more based on health than anything, has been disappointing when you bring in somebody like Dame to pair with Giannis with this.

The Gordon 1 is tough, man, because Gordon with Denver is worth so much more to them than as soon as Gordon is away from Jokic. He's just not gonna be the same kind of player.

So his contract this is year 1. He had an extension. So it's basically 5 years and 1 50. So it's pricey. It's not crazy.

Right? And he plays really well with Jokic.

So I think that

makes his value higher just because, you know, it's it's just to Jokic is at such a crucial point of his career, and he's such an important player, not just for this generation, but just historically. Like, I just know Aaron Gordon's good with him, so I'm not trading him. You know? It would it would really have to take something for me to give up give him up.

So when you label this 2nd apron thing, which I think you're absolutely right about, like Porzingis and Drew, and you wonder, like, after this version of the Celtics, if there's a 2nd apron transaction that happens there with Boston depending on seasonality. July? You mean, emphatically, yes? You mean,

you mean next month?

Don't you think Gordon's a a no because of basketball first and contract second, if at all,

for Jordan? I just think he plays too well with Jokic. And as long as as long as you have Jokic, you have a chance to win the title. That contract's not prohibitive. The Murray contract's probably a little more problematic.

You know? If although he's been really good the last couple weeks, and I I think we're all a little happier with what we're seeing. But I would be more worried about that because you can't miss on the $50,000,000 contract. You can overpay a little bit on the guys making 30.

LaVine should be behind him is my point.

LaVine should be behind Gordon. Okay.

Do you like LaVine? I do.

I I I'm stunned. It's another shocking thing that's

happened to him.

Because I've watched him multiple times be the best guy in the court in games against really good teams. And it wasn't like once. We're talking 7, 8, 9 times where it's just he's really hard to defend and he's playing, I think, as well offensively as he's ever played. And I I just I value the offense. He's a 25 points a game guy that can go toe to toe with whoever at the end of a game.

You know? It's not nothing. Like, I would rather have him than Dame at this point. Because I can find area. I can find point guards.

I think it's much harder to find these swings that can create a shot. Like, if Golden State somehow got Zach LaBean, and I don't think it would take a ton, he would be so huge for them because they have no other guy who can create a shot other than Steph. And how many times can you run Steph in a semicircle and send him pics and do little hand like, they have nothing else. They have nobody else unless till coming to comes back. So You're not wrong about that.

I mean, the drop off from primary score to secondary, like, shot creation guy for Golden State is so significant, and that's why, you know, granted, yes, I love Steph. But when he has, like, bad games, they'll be this group. It's usually, like, LeBron weirdos. You're like, oh, how come Steph never like, I don't really love that content of, like, somebody who's just done it the right way, has won multiple rings, first ballot, everything. It's like, can you guys shit on him for a couple weeks?

You're like, you know what? I don't want to, and I'm not going to. Like, he missed some shots, but what he is tasked with to solve their problems offensively as the only guy, you know, other than the the Schroder acquisition. And I know, like, you could throw it right back in my face. Right?

You could throw it right back in my face and be like, I thought you just started this podcast talking about you like bucket getters, and you're absolutely right. Like, there's moments with LaVine where he looks like the most offensively talented player on the court. But there are just too many plays as a seasoned LaVine watcher. There are too many plays in there that I think everybody misses, where where you're like, what were you doing here? Who are you helping do this?

Why didn't you get back on defense here? And they're constant, and they'll all be

He's flawed. I will fully admit he's flawed.

There's a lot

with him. 71 trade asset. It seems fair.

I could just do it. I know. Like, I thought about doing a version of, like, something on my podcast where it was gonna be 1 name, 1 game, where I just watch 1 player the entire time. Like, that Julius Randle heat game where I just go, you know, I'm gonna rewatch this and just watch Randle. And it was when you really focus on the guy that you're like, how come this guy always has numbers?

And how come his teams are never that good? And how come, like, he's so skilled? Like, what else is happening around this? And you go, well, that's not good, and that's not good, and that's and I talk about this stuff all the time with certain players, and I think LaVine's the epitome of that. Jalen's had a

couple tough ones. Jalen Brown has had a couple tough ones this year in that respect. Like, if you just watch him

where You mean not helping on the maxi inbounds? He'll end up

with the stats. But if you watch the game, he does he'll have games where he just does 20 things you don't like. And you could you could make a YouTube clip. I just think he's had a really rough season compared to what happened last year where he really, I think, won a lot of us over as this guy has taken a step up. And I feel like this year, he's gone back to where he was 2 years ago.

And there's just really especially watching them in person 2 nights in a row. It just just is he's got been really messy this year, and I'm waiting for it to not be the case anymore. And I'm just not sure.

We know at, like, the highest level he is he's delivered.

Well, that's the thing. So you're hoping in April, the it doesn't become messy anymore, and it's back. But I'm just saying the regular season's been messy.

But there are some scores when I think about their playoff resume, and I'm like, so you've been doing this for how many years, and there's nothing significant? There's not a moment for me to look at? And, like, look. I'm with you. There's there's stuff with Jaylen Brown, and this year, the shooting, and but, you know, when when you're that young, like, we've argued about Murray.

When players who are, like, have had something really good in their past have these like, I even was stubborn about Kelvin Johnson. Like, is he just gonna be terrible now? He's just gonna be terrible? And I feel like he turned the corner a little bit this season. So even though the Jaylen stuff, I would agree with you, has been frustrating.

At least we've seen that before. Yeah. They're saying the rest. Like, what what are you throwing at me with LaVine? He'd be like, remember remember this series?

He well, yeah. Well, he doesn't have it. But I do think if you're gonna complain about the rules, not you, but just in general, the second apron, how hard it is to do trades. Like, the 1 good thing that's happened with all of this is it's forced guys like LaVine to be like, I guess I'm stuck here. I'm just gonna have to play well.

And he's had for what for what he is, I think he's achieved whatever whatever his talent ceiling is. I think he's achieved that. I also think now that Lonzo's kinda back like, Lonzo's getting thrown in these trade rumors. He's an expiring contract, 20,000,000. If you watch the Bulls, I'm not positive I would even trade Lonzo.

I kinda like the Bulls. I'm not even sure they should do anything. Wait. I don't know because The most I don't feel like any of their any they're not gonna actually get anything for any of their players. So it's like, why am I doing anything?

I'll just make the plan and try to upset somebody. I don't it doesn't seem like any of their players are properly valued. It's like, I wouldn't just give away Vucevic. Oh, thanks. You're gonna be 2 twos for Vucevic?

I'm not doing that. I'm not, like, giving away LaVine and taking back a bad contract. I'll trade LaVine. I'll get Bradley Beal back. Why would I do that?

Like, why would I give away Lonzo? I like watching Lonzo.

They owe their pick this year, though. So they have to get into the lottery.

Then then go higher and just lose your pick at outside the lottery. Let's take a break and then, a really fun next category. Next category, possible studs on rookie deals going from number 68 to 62. Koulibaly, Sarr, Messi. Did you expect this from him?

Eve's, I didn't expect this. I mean, he looks incredible, and he's so confident too. Like, there's there's no hesitation on him, his aggressiveness. They I feel bad for the Pelicans front office because when

you think about 35. Like, I'm, like, 9 of their players.

They have done such a good job through the draft. Yeah. And they have just you know, their main guys aren't healthy. So it's not a mystery.

I have him at 66, Ware at 65. Stu a stunning turn of events for him. And I I was guilty of saying it too. It's like, oh, man. Imagine if Miami had taken Connect or Jared McCain.

And then Ware the last few weeks has looked like a, you know, the kinda young big at a cheap price that anyone would want. Reese O'Shea, I'm never selling my stock on him. What Kaysan Wallace at 63, and then Derek Labley at 62. Those are our possible studs on rookie deals. And for trade value purposes, having those guys, if those guys can play a rotation role, and you're paying 4,000,000, 3,000,000, 6,000,000, that that that's where you wanna be.

Next group. Nope. He's worth way more to us than to you. Number 61, Devin Vassell. Now this trade value starts to get fun right around here.

Number 60, Zubatz. Wasn't prepared for him to be that high in the list, but I don't know how many quipper games I have to watch where he's the best center in the game. His contract is 3 for 58. Too high, too low, or right range for him?

I love Zhou. Okay. I think he fights his ass off all the time. There's some good rim protection stuff in there as well. His hands

a big part of why they win.

I don't know if anybody will do this because I'm not gonna do it, but I'd love to know the success rate of pocket passes because I think a few guys, like, did it a couple years ago. Yeah. And then everybody decided that when the big rolled and the 2 stayed with them, they were like, I'm gonna do this sick look away bounce pass, and then it's gonna hit somebody's feet or it's never gonna work. I think the success rate on this this pocket pass that every player is obsessed with off of 2 staying with them is so low. But a lot of times too, they're screwing the big by trying to even throw it to these guys.

And Xu, for, like, the bigs that are out there, I'm like, you sure? Like, I know what the play calls for and that you think this is the right move, but can the guy actually catch it? I'm a big Xu fan, man. So I I thought this is fine.

Instead of a pocket pass, I would call it the the tibia pass. It it always ends up somewhere between the guy's feet and his knee, and the guy's 7 feet tall. It's like I'm pretty sure he's not gonna be able to take that pass. Jalen Hart,

I think, for Josh,

looks like a lot of these. Like, hey. Do you see limbs in

the way of the pass? Yeah. Well, then don't don't make it. It's like, no, dude. 2 stayed with me.

Have to throw the pocket pass every time.

Zoo number 60. James Harden, number 59.

The deliverer of the pocket pass.

Yeah. So 2 Clippers in top 60. Next 3, I'm gonna put in a row. Number 58, Scottie Barnes. Number 57, Trae Young.

Number 56, Jamal Murray. Big contracts. Contracts you had to do. I don't think the team feels awesome about the contracts, but you kinda it's like those no recourse contracts. How would you rank those 3?

I have them Murray, Hetty Young, and Barnes. Is that the right is that the right order for you?

It feels like if Paulo's 8, Scottie Barnes shouldn't be 59 or 58.

Alright. So I'm 1 of the many reasons I'm glad you're here. I don't see the Scottie Barnes thing like some others, and I might be too down on him. But I do think when you're the best guy in the team and the team doesn't win at some point, some of that's gotta be on you because I like I think this the Toronto team is actually pretty interesting if you if you watch them. They have guys all over the place.

Even like, Aghbaji, he's like a 45% 3 point shooter. He's like their 9th man. Like, they have skilled players. I don't understand why they're not better. So, anyway, you could talk me into him being 38, or you could have talked me into being here.

And I I aired on I haven't really seen him be an impact guy on a winning team. Trae Young, at least, has been an impact guy on a winning team. Jamal Murray won a title. Tyler Herro, who's number 55, and I think he's been, more efficient, better offensive player than all those other guys. I just would rather have Tyler Herro at 3 for 93 than pay the max for Scottie Barnes.

Well, look. This is probably the wrong time to be ranking Scottie Barnes because it's getting worse. The efficiency stuff, like, continues to decline over a 4 year stretch. He's back under 30% from 3. I think you always knew that he was a weird player, but in a good way because he could do so many different things.

But Yeah. You know, back to, like, the primary scoring thing, like, I don't think he was ever gonna be like a Cade. And even though Paolo like, people would get on him with his efficiency stuff, especially last year. Like, that was the big Paolo, Scotty Barnes argument last year. It's like, yeah, but are you watching the shots that Paolo was tasked with taking

Right.

All these other guys are out that in. Right. Like, watch and see how difficult some of the shots are for this dude because he's he's left with the ball to bail them out of every 1 of these possessions. So I think if you did, like, a 4 year thing of Scottie you know, again, it's your list, so I don't wanna sit here and and go through 10 straight guys. I'm happy to low, too low.

Too low.

No. This is 1 of the ones I really wanted to hash out. Like, he's averaging 28 and 6. 28 and 6 this season. He should 27% from 3.

And I I guess my fear for him and this would actually be a good outcome for his career. But there was that Iguodala stretch in Philly when he was miscast as the lead guy who's like, I'm gonna be the guy who carries our offense at the end of games. And I'm our number 1 guy, and guess what? The team never won. And then once that got repositioned as like, no, I'm actually an awesome overqualified number 3 guy or number 4 guy, and I'm gonna guard the best guy in the other team, and I'm gonna learn how to hit 3 points.

And I'm just, like, completely additive, and then he found his destiny. I wonder if that's Scottie Barnes. I wonder if he's just miscast right now as we're gonna run our offense through Scottie Barnes. I don't think you're gonna win games if you're running the offense through him. At least the player is now.

Yeah. But the thing is

I think his his playmaking is actually pretty good, but it's it's just we talked about Toronto this summer. It's like, look at who they're paying. Look how much they're paying all these guys. And there's nights where I like RJ Barrett, but it feels like everybody's a slot up too high on a priority list for a basketball team. It's like

a movie where they couldn't find the the guy to put on the poster, and it's a bunch of character actors and role players. And it's like, I don't know. Kinda wish we had Nick Cage in this 1.

If you were Lawrence Frank in Toronto called and offered Scottie Barnes to Norm Powell, you you're not saying no.

As a straight up deal though? Like, Scottie's making,

well, mid

forties, but that that's part of the trade buy thing. Norm's making 17,000,000 a year, averaging 24 points a game. So you have to factor in the salary. Do I wanna pay Scottie Barnes 45 or Norm Powell 17? Whatever the numbers are.

That's what that's where this gets hard. Because if I'm paying Scottie the number I'm paying him, I only have money to pay 2, 2 and a half guys that much money. Right? So now I'm all in. He's gotta be 1 of my best 2 guys on the team trying to win the title.

And I don't know if he's that guy yet.

Do you think Miami would say no to Scottie Barnes or Tyler Herro?

I do. Really? When you factor in the salaries, yeah, if I'd rather pay Tyler Herro 30,000,000. But you might be right. That's why we're doing this.

I my fear is that because the numbers are down the way that they are and You know what? You know, even even if we didn't like Toronto, which we both didn't like Toronto this summer, and the record bears it out, but you're right. Like, there are some nights with them where I'll go, oh, like, RJ's having a big night. And be like, oh, this is why they wanted Pirtle back. You know?

But they've they've also had a really like, they haven't had much consistency for long stretches this season of of having a bunch of guys be available too.

Would you do you think the Celtics would

trade Derek White for Scotty Burns? If Ainge were there, yeah, because Ainge would just go give me the potential talent ceiling.

But you're taking on, like, 15,000,000 extra a year.

Yeah. Well, then now we're talking second Now

you're second but that's but that's second apron's a part of this, though.

Yeah. Yes. So That's a different trade. You see, I don't think there's any way. Here's whenever we're doing this exercise.

Right? Yep. If right now is, like, the only time in the last couple years that we would say Miami would turn down Scottie Barnes for Tyler Herro, is that when we're making a mistake?

Okay. I I'm gonna move him down, and I'm gonna put him in a new spot. And yet, 8 I actually have a better category. You talk me into it. I'll move him up 10 spots.

And I might be wrong. I've I will fully admit. I might be too glass half empty.

The numbers are numbers.

I'm a little too glass half empty on.

Look. You wanna run the numbers on it. It just I was like, man. And maybe it's because I've been so used to the Powell Scotty argument, and, like, they're 50 slots apart Yeah. On this 1.

And it's not like I want Scottie over Paolo, but I was like, damn.

50 slots. Another 1 that I'd I'd I wasn't sure the right rank for him. Alright. So we'll go 59 Harden, 58 Trae Young, 56 Jamal 57 Jamal Murray, 56 Hero, and then 55 Isaiah Hartenstein, who is just a winning player on a good contract, and I value what he does. When he's out there, his team plays better.

I don't and I I just feel like they wouldn't trade him. I think he has an incredible amount of value for them. And, and that's that.

Is trade too low?

Which way? Would you put him higher into the forties, or would you put him backwards? Because he's got a lot of intrinsic value to the hawks, to the franchise as, like, their guy. And they built a pretty nice set of assets around him that complement what he does. You know?

But I also I'm not sure what his trade value would be around the week.

Well, it wasn't very good this summer. And Certainly was. There was there was a big piece on the athletic that spoke directly to that. And I know that, like, as 2 guys that have caught the brunt of shit from Atlanta, I I wouldn't even just say it's fans. It's, like, media members.

It was like, Trey was their guy. And then you're like, okay. Did you see this piece where they basically said we need to be completely different with you? Yeah. That's

the banner.

Right. And so you've seen it. You've seen it this year. You know, whether it's Deandre being better in his role and Jaylen taking on such a huge part of the offense. Like, I think it was a little alarming that it took this many years for them to say, hey, Trey.

You know what'd be really cool is when you have the ball, throw it up ahead to see if there's an opportunity to attack, like, kind of like that halfway transition.

You got 4 of them. You can use them at any time. It it's not just in the half court.

That line, you can give him the ball before you cross that line. Like, no shit. So, look, all that stuff was in there, and they were like, they need to reevaluate what this is. I mean, it's not like he's taken 12 shots a game as opposed to 20. He's only down, like, a couple shots there.

The assist numbers are huge. There's also another piece. Like, I'm sorry that I'm just reading it, and I was sort of just laughing as I read all these quotes. It was like, you know, I don't need to just hang on to the basketball and wait for the assist play. I can pass it to someone else who then can move the ball around a little bit.

Oh. He was like That was the You think so doctor Boogerdette's quote.

Right. So I've I you know, we both sneaky liked this roster for a while, and I like it even more. I guess I'll never understand the Okongo thing of, like, what every time I would watch, it'd be like, so Clint's still the better option there, and then they made that change.

And Every 3 weeks at Conwood looks like Bill Russell in, like, 1963. It's gotta mean something.

Yeah. And I guess I I

I wanted to put him in this list, and I didn't couldn't find a spot for him.

But he was gonna do a huge

top 85. Hey. Next group.

Okay.

This is a 1 person group. It's called sorry I can't answer your call. I'm taking a long, sad walk. Please leave message after the beep. And that is number 54, Joel Embiid.

I have no idea what Joel Embiid's trade bet. You could tell me that Philly has to attach picks to trade him. You could tell me people would offer picks for him. I have no idea. I I you you could tell me anything.

I would believe it. And you don't know either.

I don't, but I I wasn't mad about it. I didn't go, this is outrageous.

He doesn't play basketball.

No. And I remember, like, last year when it was I think it was we already talked about it when we did the Denver show, and I mentioned the Zac Lowe part of it. I wasn't being critical of Zac, but it was just this accepted thing because of who Embedded Ben. He'd won the MVP, that it was like he was in the top 5. And I don't think you just automatically lose your spot when you're not healthy, and maybe even if you miss a year.

But with him, I don't know I don't know what you do with him. I'd love to know what the contract negotiation was, like, why they were in such a hurry to extend him, and it certainly took him, what, 12 seconds to go. Done. 12.

I think it was 4.

I would if I wanna sign a note Can

I DocuSign that right now? Can you just send that to me right now? I got a DocuSign. I have it open.

Don't send a DocuSign. I'll drive to you. If I bring my own Sharpie. I I don't know what his value is, man. I just don't know that I'd wanna be in business because why is it supposed to get better?

And for all the shit that he's taken right now for missing games and the Denver history's brought back up, I'd ask the people that are mad at him for not did you watch when he was playing? And, like, you can come at me with the box score and all that stuff. The guy doesn't move.

Just go

watch his go watch

the Golden State game if if you're wondering why. Numbers. And

he got his numbers, so you'll say, oh, no. What are you guys talking about?

Now watch the Golden State game. Just watch more defense.

So if

he's gonna

move that badly, my point is I don't even blame him for not playing. Like, he was clearly marginalized when he was out there, and now people are mad that he's not playing anymore. And I I kinda look at that stretch of going, well, if that's how bad it was gonna look, then he actually needs to. It's frustrating as it for everybody. He needs to be missing games to not look like that anymore because that's not gonna work either.

It was handled horrendously by the team. It was handled horrendously by Embiid, and it's gotten worse the whole season. And I know I I know a bunch of Sixers fans. All of them are in that zone of just like, why aren't you just telling us what's going on? Why the secrecy?

Why are you hiding things? Why is this so murky at all times? It's, you know, it just sucks the life out of

They may not know though.

Franchise, the fans. But then say you don't know. Because they tried to say in the beginning of the season, they tried to make it seem like, oh, he's doing some some, some knee management stuff. And he clearly is not gonna be able to play 3 games in a row. And if he does you know, the other thing when he plays well, and they're, like, strategically picking these games where it's like, hey, Charlotte tonight.

You wanna play? Yeah. Charlotte. Great. Alright.

Let me let me give that a whirl. But I don't think does anybody think he's gonna be able to play 4 straight playoff rounds?

I don't know why.

Do you think he'd play 3? Do you think he'd play 2? What's gonna be better about this 2 months from now?

I don't even know how you would project to be like, yeah. That no. It'll it'll it'll just be fine. The Olympics thing was clearly a huge priority to him, and I think part of it was, you're not gonna win a title, like, you know, win a gold. And, you know, he's had some big moments for him, but for somebody who just doesn't ever seem to be right, like, was that was that the best use of your time?

Also, we've been basketball fans for a long time. We've seen some things. In the direction this has gone, we just have a mental history of other guys where we watch this kind of arc or lack of an arc. And it's like, Seaweb. No.

Once the microfracture surgery goes through, it's it'll be fine. He should be you know? The only 1 I can remember where the guy was gone and it seemed bleak and then he came back and was really good was Amar'e Stoudemire, especially in the 2010 season, that first stretch in with the Knicks in 2011 where it seemed like he had hit that point where you just could never rely on him again. And then he did rally back. Embiid's carrying, I don't know, 50, 60, 70 extra pounds and more inches and everything.

And I just think Yao Ming was another 1. Yeah. His feet aren't good. And then all of a sudden, he was just out of basketball. I Think with with these tall guys, when it goes in this direction, the history of the league says it keeps going that direction.

Sampson was another 1, the late eighties. Got traded to Golden State. Oh, this will go great. Oh, new team. New and his knees are better, and he's out of the league in 3 years.

So the fact that he's just not playing basketball that much is historically a horrible sign.

Next Do you think there's a trade? Real quick, though. Do you did you think of any trade that you would go this could actually be some because I don't even know how you would start the conversation. No. The the

I think I mentioned this on a pod a couple weeks ago. It's it's an all time bullet dodge by the Knicks. Because I do think they would've gone all in for him last summer. And instead, they went down this Bridges town's path instead, which turned out to be way better thing. But I think they would've I think they would've given up the goods for him.

I don't know if there's another team, though. I don't think there's a you'd have to have a huge salary that goes the other way. It would have to be a pretty desperate team, and it would honestly be irresponsible to to trade for him with the contract he has when you don't know if he can play or not. I wouldn't do that if I was an owner. Would you trade

a deal for him?

So Beal, 3 years left this year and the next 2, but I get out of the Indeed business? I mean, would Ishbia do that? Of course. But that doesn't solve my Philly problem because I'm taking on another bad contract. I'd rather just keep my fingers crossed with the beat.

Next group, very valuable assets on very good contracts. Number 53, Naz Reed, who's, like, making 12,000,000 a year. I don't I like, he's 1 of the best contracts of the league. Lou Dort, another 1 who makes nothing. Norm Powell, Austin Reeves, who really should have listened to us when we were telling him to sign with the Spurs.

Derrick White, Jared Allen. That's

the 3

through 48. Spurs didn't listen. Next group is valuable assets on not as good contracts. Move Scottie Barnes here to 47, thanks to his agent, Ryan Russillo. Shangoun at 46, Markkanen at 45, OG and Inova at 44.

I just don't love the contracts, but love the player. Markkanen is the 1 that I think has been the weirdest 1 this season because he's just his stats aren't the same. You're paying him as a franchise guy who can, you know, wait. Last year, he was winning games and beating teams, having best player in the floor games. Hasn't really been the same this year, but I also wonder if he's just on cruise control and because they're tanking.

Any thoughts? Or

Yeah. I'm a little worried because it, you know, it kinda gets back to that thing of, like, oh, if you've shown us some really high level stuff, then I expect that you're gonna get back to it a little bit. And he's 28. I would say there's some Chianti George possessions where everybody else is watching that I don't love, and then Sexton is talented enough to get his. So now do they have, like, all these other dudes in hell, and they bring in Sensibaugh, and they bring like, there's just a lot of guys, like, it's go time.

And is Lowry collateral because it feels like there's less opportunities for him to initiate, or is that something that people have figured out with him?

Yeah. Who's the point who's his buddy? Who's the point guard on this team who's looking out for him and getting good shots? I'm a say nobody. So that would be the case.

I I don't like, I still think that there is value for him, and but it did I think it's a fair point in that last year, it didn't matter. What whatever is con whatever to the last dollar we can pay this guy is what he deserves and what he would get paid, and everybody else would be happy to give him that in a free agent world. And this season maybe makes you think of him as more expensive.

Well and, also, it's 2 guys Golden State went after last year and didn't get him and Paul George. And for what they would have to give up for Markkanen, maybe maybe you're relieved a little bit if you're going state. We've been a ton of draft picks. You're giving up Wiggins. You're putting Kuminga in there.

And for what you've seen from marketing this year, not that he's not a good player, but I just don't know what's your destiny if you're going to state. If you're built around Curry and Markkanen, I don't I don't know where that takes you. You're not in any different of a spot than, like, Phoenix is. Group h, always the toughest guy to figure out. This group's called you realize he has a no trade clause, and he's 40.

Right? It's LeBron James. I don't he they're not trading him. I don't think anyone's trading for him, and it's a useless exercise to talk about him. Alright.

Next group. Let me save you some time. Fuck no. Really fun group here. Number 42.

Castle. 41, Trey Murphy. 40, Josh Hart. 39, Dyson Daniels. 38, Desmond Bane.

30 7, Darius Garland. 36, Jalen Suggs. We're getting into some real trade assets now. I I'm fine to admit that I'm overrated Castle if you think I am. I just really like him.

I'm all in. I have I have a house on Castle Island already. I'm I'm in. I'm I'm completely in on that guy. And the question would be, was he should he be that much higher than the other guys in the draft?

In my opinion, yes. I think he's gonna be a guy who could be a top 3 guy in the title team, and I think he's a really nice person for the Wembley experience as we travel through it for the next 7, 8 years. That's a guy who can win titles with them. So I might override

No. I you know, I don't I don't think it's because here's here's an example that I would use. Like, when we went back and looked at, like, Kamminga. Right? You had Kamminga 83, and you had toughest omission, Tara Eason.

I would look at, like, okay. I've seen the ups and downs of the Kamminga thing for multiple seasons. So the idea that it's just going to turn this corner into something, like, really steady, and that he could be a number 2 scoring option on an okay team. For 30,000,000 a year? Yeah.

That that's now starting to feel like a bit of a reach with Kamingo. Where with Tar Hee Sin, even though it's raw or whatever, like, he's out there just wreaking havoc on basketball games. And because I haven't really gotten to see the full form version of Tara Yeeson, that he would still be more valuable to me just based on the unknown. And then we know this game enough that, like, the unknown always trumps the known, and that's why Castle is a hang up. Even if it's not, like the best you know, because whenever we see somebody young that's this good, like, what if he can do this?

What if he can do this? I don't know if he's ever gonna be able to shoot it consistently, but I do know this. The guy is what? 2 years removed from high school, and he goes at, like, 30 year old dudes like they stole from him. He looks to fucking kill guys.

So that mentality and all of that, like, having a a dude out there that is completely unafraid this early. Like, there's plenty of young guys who are like, okay. He's just uncomfortable, and he needs to kinda get through this. There's none of that with him. So even if the full arsenal of, like, all the offensive polish of even a guy like Vassell, I I have no problem with him being this high because teams don't trade guys like that.

I agree. I'm really interested to see what happens within next 2 months and with San Antonio in general because I actually think their record's lower than maybe it should be. We all went under on them, or I I went under on them. Maybe you went over on them before the season.

No. I'm pretty sure I went over because it was such a massive jump. I think did you go over?

No. I went under. I I went under. Because I thought the west was too good, and I I didn't see the path for them to be in the high thirties. But they they're in a lot of these games, and Webb is terrifying.

And if Castle gets better down the stretch, who knows? Trey Murphy, I'm putting at 41 because I liked last year for him. I think they fucked him this year with the contract extension. Couldn't couldn't really work out all summer. Didn't know if he was getting it, then he gets it, got hurt.

But if you've watched him the last couple weeks, that's just the kinda guy you want on your team. You know? He's he's

I think we would have seen this earlier from him too, 1 with health and just more opportunity. Yeah. It started to feel undeniable with him. Yeah. And now I I kinda just don't want some of these guys to get in his way because I think there's an awesome version of him that's just waiting to happen here, and I I love him.

So

If we ran a team, we'd be calling Griffin every 4 to 8 hours. Like, I don't know. Maybe too many guys. What about Murphy? Josh Hart, I was shocked that I had him this side, but, the guy plays 42 minutes a game.

It has crazy stats, and he's indispensable on a top 5 team. And he's on a good contract, so I had to put him there. Daniels, we both love. Bang, Garland, Suggs. No arguments in any of those.

This next group, it's 3 people. It's called, if you tell Shams, I'll deny it to the death, but I am absolutely unequivocally 100% listening. Number 35, Zion Williamson. Number 34, LaMelo Ball, and number 33, Bam Adebayo. I think Bam would be the surprise in that 1, but I'm just prepared for anything with Miami.

I don't know what they do, whether they blow it up. Who knows? Like, is Miami hanging up if you're like, we're here to talk about Bam? I just don't think they are. I think everyone on their team's available.

I might hang up on you and end the pod right now for having Bam in a group with Zion and LaMelo.

I listen. I I'm sorry. I could also put him in the next group. Just put him in another group. He shouldn't be in

that group with those 2 guys.

Okay. I'm gonna move him down just just to keep you happy. So It's so disrespectful. Same ranking, number 33. That's fine.

But he's in the next group, which is called, sorry, we're pot committed here. Okay. Zion and LaMelo. I so I would trade for Zion. I I would totally talk myself into he's in the worst possible franchise with the worst trainers and and a weird fan base and a bad city for him.

We if we just bring him here Yeah.

It was it was the weird fan base. That's what

I'm just I'm saying if you're talking yourself into, oh, if we could just get him, we can mold him. He's the kinda guy that gets GMs fired, where you're like, no. No. We gotta do this because once we get him, and then 3 months later, he pulls a hamstring and he puts on £20, and you're like, oh my god. I'm gonna lose my job.

Why did I do this? That's him.

I agree that I think there's a second team market for him just based on history. This is like Darko and, you know, Orlando giving up a lottery pick for him. Oh. Because it's like, well, this guy went really high. Like, you remember those?

I do, but wow. I didn't know it was that bad.

No. It is because Zion's done more than Darko ever does.

Was thinking it was more like the Chris Webber, Mitch Richmond type of trade where you're like, ah, you're giving us Mitch Richmond even though he's 33? Fine.

That's a better 1 based on production because, like, the Zion thing was was really good last year. And it's kinda like a little bit like the Embiid thing in that you go, well, if the market is this bad for this guy that I know I probably should be in business with, I'm still not going to trade him now. And then I think on the other side of it, not that this lasted very long, but the idea that because of the contract, like, would they waive him? You go, no. No.

No. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. There's a market. There's still a market based on, like, the second team going like, if it were Pierce and Antoine Walker, you would be calling in to EEI, being like, we should we should get Zion.

Like, that's the kind of structure of a team where you go, they don't really have that much hope, and, like, I'm gonna be excited. It's gonna be cool to have Zion

in my favorite team uniform. But that could be golden state right now when we're talking about, like, hail Mary, we have to do something crazy moves. Saying fuck it and going after Zion, that that qualifies. Because if you strike oil with it, it's an ama it's an amazing trade. If all the good things from the trade happen, it's the best trade anyone could make this decade.

And yet, it's probably way more likely all the other stuff would happen. It's a it's 1 of the toughest trade assets in a long time.

Okay. But in a vacuum, like, if you were running a team and let's I wouldn't trade for him. Okay. But if somebody said you have to have 1, like, your owner calls. Hey.

I just bought the team. It's it's Bezos. Bezos is like, we need to make a statement here early, Bill. Finally gonna give you GM job, and we're also gonna have, like, behind the scenes. You think you think hard knocks was all access.

Yeah.

We're gonna be we're gonna be waking up with you. Okay? Right. And you're running the team.

24 hour VR.

Right. So you need to trade for 1 of the 2, LaMelo or Zion. I'd trade for LaMelo.

LaMelo, I that's another 1 where you can he's a get coaches and GMs fired guy. His destiny I made this joke many times, but his destiny might end up being an awesome basketball reference page and, you know, Twitter, TikTok, Snapchat, 1 minute clips of this guy was a problem, and that might be it. But you watch him on certain nights, and he just seems completely unstoppable. And, like, he can make any shot, and you could get seduced by it. I if it was him versus Zion, at least I know he's probably a better bet to play.

Yeah. Which isn't even a great bet. I thought the all star voting thing was really interesting. And then when I went to look at how it was happening, when you sorted his position for available people to vote on, he's the 1st option because he was leading everybody in scoring. Oh.

So I was like, I wonder if that would happen. I gotta give Tim McMahon credit on this 1 because he was on with Windhorse and and Bon Temps, and he was like, well, his style of play has been in preparation of the all star game. So he's a perfect fit if he's named a starter. He ended up not being a starter. He should've been a starter, based on what Mitchell, Garland, Brunson, all these guys have done.

I I think between the 2, here's here's the issue. It wasn't just the Bam issue. I think that Zion and LaMelo should be behind group g. I think they should just be behind it because if somebody offered So with LeBron. Right right between LeBron

and those other guys. Alright. Right.

Because, I mean, even though you can't trade Trey Murphy for Zion, if Trey Murphy were offered for Zion, the team says, yeah. We'll we'll turn the page on this.

So the Pelicans call the Spurs, and they say, we'll give you Zion for Castle. The Spurs say no way.

The smart answer is no way. Okay.

I think you're right. That's a good see, this is why you're a great trade value conciliatory. That's a good note. I'm like mad dog. That's a good job by you, Ryan.

That's just a great job right there.

Okay. I see Pete Rosella. She put me to sleep. That was was was such a sad day in my career. I was in the car driving home, listening to Mad Dog.

Mad Dog shit on it.

On the air. Mad Dog shit on Van Pelt and I. And I was like, I would leave ESPN right at 4. I'd be driving the gym. I would listen to little Gottlieb.

I check out what the dog was doing, and and dog was like, that's me. Yeah. Help me to sleep. There's no energy on that show. And I was just like, fuck.

I was like, getting into another Eagles rejoin from Scottsdale. I was pissed. Yeah.

The good thing is the good thing is you let slates like that. You just forget about them overnight. Don't think about them again.

Yeah. Like, it never happened.

We're gonna take 1 more break and do the top 33. Alright. 33 guys left. This is group e. Sorry.

We're pot committed here. Rossello demanded Bam be put in this group and can't get away from Zayo LaMelo. So Bam thanks you. He's 33. McHale Bridges, Kyrie Irving, Jaylen Brown, who was in the teens, I think, 3 months ago and I think has dropped, and we can talk about that in a second.

Franz Wagner, Kevin Durant, and then Sabonis. And there's a couple of the contracts here. Jaylen Brown, 4 years left, 236. Kevin Durant, 2 years, 106. That's this year, next year.

Sabonis, 4 for 186. Little pricey. But, but that what do you think of that order? Adebayo, Bridges, Irving, Brown, Wagner, Durant, and then number 27, Sabonis. Is that the right group for Durant?

It is. Did you nudge him up? I think it is the age and and team performance.

But, you know, if if Durant were offered to the Pacers or Halliburton, would they just go, yep. No problem. And we'll just have Nembhard initiate everything.

I don't think the Pacers do it. It's too hard to find a guy who's like, I love being Indiana's signature guy. I think it would take a lot for them to trade him.

You see Durant may just not be into it later on? Alright. That's fine. I love I love this group because I think this is where it really starts getting hard. This is where all the years, all the tape for you, Bill, is showing up because Kyrie, this is maybe the highest he's been in a long time.

Listen. I'm a second I'm a second chance guy. I'm a third chance guy, and I'm even a 4th chance guy. Kyrie, not 1 of my not 1 of my favorites for a long time. And he really won me over the last couple years.

He fine. He's a late bloomer, but, I don't know. I think this is the right area for him because if he's your 2nd best player, you can make the NBA finals. We saw that in June.

Yeah. Mic'd up, just leadership pouring into your ears.

Coherent press conferences? Hasn't done really anything goofy in about a year and a half? 2 years? Right?

Well, yeah. I think we're coming up on, what, 2 years of him being a

great anniversary? That should've been that would've been a good anniversary for you as pen and celebrate.

Be good 30 for 30. You know, the Jalen thing for Durant, you think Boston says no? I think they dump you?

I think they'd have to well, that's why I had Durant 28 and Brown 30 because I think if you're boss, then you have the chance to get out of the last 2 years of Jaylen's contract and replace him with somebody that would keep you as competitive as you are right now. You'd you'd at least have to have meetings about it. If you're Phoenix, why am I doing that? Like, I'm already, like, all the way in with this KD Booker thing. I, like, I can't really deviate from that at this point.

It just feels low for Jaylen. And I think because of this year, he's getting dinged too much. Although So you put him in the twenties? Yeah. But see but I like the group that he's in because Sabonis is incredibly like, like, the stats with him every single time.

I don't even know that I blame the guy from Turkey for voting him for MVP. I know he was was he from Greece or something like that? Like, he might have just pulled up and gone like, look at this plus minus shit. Like, are you kidding? Like,

that has to be the MVP. Rebounds a game. Yeah. But Jake, what is it? 4 4 years for 236 and the last 2 years in the sixties when we're in a 2nd apron league now, it's just it's it's really hard to pay your 2nd best player that contract.

I think that's why he has to be dinged. It's not totally his fault. Okay.

But, like, we were doing it before. So what was the Jalen deal? 5 years what?

5 years on my I mean, it was, like, 280, 285, something like that. Now we're 4 years left at 236. So it's just a crazy number.

Because we were talking, we were talking OG and Anobi. We didn't really get into it. Like, there's part of me that will always think, like, you gotta pay OG and Anobi 5 years to 12, fully guaranteed, and give him a player option on the last year. And, you know, statistically, there's some stuff with him. You're like, how does but when you watch him, you appreciate him a little bit more, certainly when he's been more available, which I think has been a fair knock on him in the past there.

But you're right. Like, it's still 75,000,000 light of what you're paying Jalen.

Yeah. He's 49.2 this year, 53, 57, 61, 64 in the 28, 29 season. That's alarming for anybody.

Right. But the cap's gonna go up, and it's 65,000,000 as crazy as that number is. It's 65,000,000 for him at 32. He's gonna age well. And at that point, it's only it's under 32% of the actual cap hit.

So I hope he ages well. I don't like

the fact that he's fucking jacked. I think he needs to unjack by about I think he needs to unjack by about £7 a muscle after seeing him in person for 2 days. I was alarmed by how jacked he was. He looked like he should be with Jesse Ventura and Schwarzenegger and Carl Weathers in the predator movie. That's like how jacked he was.

And I just found Oh.

Like, that's dude, Kevin Willis fall forward. Is Kevin Willis first team all time? Oh, yeah. Looks like he looks like he could play right now. Like, I love that's always the Fred Lynn thing when he stops by Nessen once a year.

It's just it's mandatory.

Yeah.

It's mandatory that anybody that ages well, you can be a 104. You'd be like, oh, get that guy probably gets you 6 innings right now. Right. You just have basically skinny.

It's just if you're skinny. They they say it. And a tan. Oh, you're not you don't have a potbelly. You're tan.

You could play right now. Group d, 7 guys, budding franchise guys. Tyrese Maxey 26, Halliburton, Gulp, Karl Anthony Towns, number 24, Ja Morant, Brandon Miller Brandon Miller, Jalen Johnson, and Chet Holmgren, who would have been higher, but he's had 2 major injuries already, and he's, like, 22. And I had to ding him as a a if you healthy Chet Holmgren, I think, would be higher. Anyone on that list jump out to you in the wrong way or the right way?

Towns has been great for them. Completely won the trade. Still gonna be a little bit worried about what the defensive alignment stuff might be. But when they're rolling offensively, it's I mean, it's just an awesome 1 through 5.

The contract for town's 49.253.1, 5761. Yeah. I mean, he

looks good about her too.

But he he's been awesome. And then there's no way he's not a top 30 trade asset. Where he is exactly? I don't know.

Nope. I don't think when you know, as we get to the rest of the list that I've seen here. So there was nothing I mean, I I always could pick at anything. I guess I'm just kinda wondering, like, what is Jah right now?

Well, that that was the 1. Is Ja too high on this list, and should he be backwards? Just because Ja doesn't play a lot. And it's like these 1 off, then he plays 2, then he's off 1, then he's off 3, then he's, then he's playing 3 more. It just seems like he's not available a lot, and it makes me nervous that that's my franchise guy.

He's, like Because it's true. When Tatum doesn't play, I'm, like, what happened to Tatum? He's not playing? Like, I just assume he's gonna play every game. With Ja, it's like, woah.

Ja played a month in a row? Really?

He's missed 19 games this year. He played 9 games last year, and we know last year was a mess for

But they've been 19 games that he missed that have been spread out. They're sprinkled out, like, 2,

3, 1.

He's definitely a

because Memphis is is on whatever priority. Like, it's easily a top 10 team for me now because I just like, falling in love with Jaren Jackson in a new way. Like, I always appreciated him, but now, like, this year, I I get, like, excited to kinda see, like, I wonder how they're gonna use him. I love Jaren Jackson. So there you go.

And you're right. Like, there's nights where I go, oh, like, shit. Jah isn't playing again tonight. And so when you look at his style of plan, I know he's talked about, like, I'm just not gonna be doing the same type of stuff that he's in the 2nd year of a 5 year deal for a 197,200,000, but it it made

me feel major incidents. Don't forget to include that part.

Yeah. This this is a lot like some of these other guys that we talk about. Whether it's Trey's value to Atlanta, specifically, LaMelo's value to Charlotte, New Orleans going, look. If Zion's not worth anything on the trade market, we might as well just ride this out again and see that if he's healthy because the best version of him, like, we can be a team that, you know, I don't know if dangerous is the wrong word here, but you understand, like, at least, like, a a path of if we have all of our guys, and, you know, we can get frustrated. We can get impatient, but so many of these teams just kinda default to patience that Yeah.

Jah's Jah's probably a hang up on almost 90%. Like, there's probably a few guys ahead of him that are hang ups, but I also can see people making making an argument that at 23, he's too high because of availability.

If Memphis called Philly and said, we'll trade your job around for Tyrese Maxey straight up right now. I don't think Philly does it, which tells me I I probably should add job behind Tyrese Maxey.

Yeah. And Maxey, you know, has missed a little time this year, but that was the those are the 2 that I put next to each other. The contract's the same. Maxey's only on the first year, but it's 5 years 204, like I said, versus 5 years 197. Maxey played 60 games last year, 70 games a year before that.

He's played 37 to 44 this year. His shooting numbers are down, but, really, that to me is a product of him going, like, okay. Embiid's out, and I'm just gonna force the issue. And he's taken a 1000000 shots. He's taken more bad shots than he normally would.

So I don't look at his declining shooting this year as this alarming thing. I think it was just He's been good lately. Difficulty. Yeah. So So maybe it's

Haliburton 26, Ja 25, Maxey 24, Townes 23. I think I think that's the order. Because I think Max I think Maxey is a little more of a hang up than Jazz from Memphis just because of the lack of availability and some of the stuff that's happened. Are you okay with Brandon Miller at 22?

I mean, I could ding it because of the hand surgery, but based on everything you've read about it, is that it's pretty straightforward and that And Jalen Johnson,

21, you're good with. Yeah. I love Jalen Johnson. Yeah. Me too.

Okay. Next group. 3 guys. Group c, only if they made us do it. Number 19, De'Aaron Fox.

Number 18, Steph Curry. Number 17, Devin Booker. You heard me correctly. Steph Curry number 8 is 18. Here's the case.

I think you and I are probably among the 2 biggest Steph Curry fans in the media.

Seth is probably 3rd.

3 years, 178,000,000 is the number. He's 36. And if he's the best player in a pretty average team, in the old days, that meant the team would have been good to maybe really good. Now it means pretty average. That's what we've seen.

I just think he's I don't think he's at a a completely different point in his career, but he's at a slightly different point in his career. This this version of Steph Curry right now would not have won the 2022 finals. I think there's been a slight, slight, slight aging with him. But I also don't think they would ever trade him unless he went into the office and said, you guys have to trade me. It's time.

So it's a tough No. When he when he had

the opportunity to talk about the trademark, he did the exact opposite. Did the exact opposite. Bobby Marks brought it up when we had him on not that long ago, and it's, like, this is what you want. This is what you want in the face of your franchise. This is the person that looks at kind of this lifetime professional relationship of, like, hey.

What's the best way for me to handle this versus the worst way? And the worst way would be, like, Anthony Davis clearly did it because he learned it from watching LeBron.

Yeah. The passive aggressive trade request. Our roster's not

good enough.

Yeah. We need a big man. You have, like, 5 big man on your roster.

I just don't think I just think it's a ridiculous way to, like, operate as if the front office is sitting around and be like, hey. Do you guys wanna be worse or better? Like, I don't know. What about you? Like, what do you wanna do today?

I don't know. Let's get lunch, and then we'll think about it. And then it's like, oh, no. The player said he wants us to get better. Alright.

Well, that that does it. Yeah. Let's get Fine. Then. We weren't we weren't gonna do it.

We actually wanted to be average. But now and usually that means you're forcing the front office if you have leverage, if you have an upcoming contract, you have all these different things. You're probably forcing the front office and ownership into doing something they don't think is the best thing to do long term. And, you know, LeBron's never cared about any of the draft picks anyway, so I think Davis is just basically saying the same stuff as him. So Steph Yeah.

There are no lines saying.

There's there's I don't know. You know, nothing's impossible, but I don't know if that day is ever gonna come.

I only think the only thing that would make sense to me would be Charlotte if he wanted to, like, finish his career there, but that's just you're punting on everything. And I I I do think some people feel like relationships are really important and that they would rather spend the rest of their career, like, understanding the impact of, like, I was on the same team that drafted me. We won titles together. I ended up retiring without with some of the people I played with. I think he cares about that.

So it's stupid to even have him on a list like this. Booker was an interesting 1 because I have him 17th. I don't have him in either of the top 2 groups. You could make a case that he should be, but I just haven't liked that. That team seems super disjointed and unhappy for 3 straight years, and he's the best guy on it.

And at some point, it it you know, he's 28. I just couldn't get there, but I'm also willing to be talked into nudging him up if you think we should.

I just think he should be up, man. Okay. I'm a huge Booker fan, and I think it's been a bit like some of the stuff stuff that we've seen. Like, there's certain guys from an efficiency standpoint. We just talked about it with Maxi, where I can handle the efficiency being dinged a little when I feel like you are tasked with having to get your team out of so many bad possessions.

And when I watch them, I think he's still he's still the guy I trust the most on that team.

So if

that so let's run through it. Like, you think you think of Jalen Williams? Well, the Jalen Williams contract thing with OKC, I'm gonna lose because of the flexibility on

the test. Group b, we can go through each guy, and you tell me if any of them would trade this guy for Devin Booker. So I'll move Booker up to group b. So he's 17. Number 16, Jalen Williams.

I don't think they I think they would rather have Williams on the contract he's on younger. His age is tied to SGA and Chet and some of the draft picks they have. I just think they would rather have Jalen Williams than Booker, as weird as that sounds from a basketball standpoint. It's also a team that doesn't really make trades ever.

So you're good with that? Yeah. The contract, I can't win it.

I'd

rather have Booker just sort of a basketball player, I'd rather have Booker playing next to SGA right now than Jammin Williams. I don't even know how anybody would debate that.

Hurts me on defense a little bit. Right? Jamey Williams doing, you know, between him and Dort. That's part, I think, what makes their defense so special is they're everybody in that team can switch in all of these good ways. There's high end defender.

Like, SJ is probably the worst defender out of their crunch time guys.

Yeah. I mean, when I look at who They'll either attack the other team will attack Wallace if it's a size thing, or Yeah. They'll go at SGA because it's, like, the best of the options. You know? So you can avoid Dorr or Caruso or even Wiggins who I think is 1 of my favorite, like, underrated players in the entire league.

Yeah. Yeah. That's why it's so unfun to talk about OKC trades because it was like, I like all these guys that wouldn't trade. Like, oh, we gotta improve the Wiggins spot. Do you?

I'd rather, like, see what I have with Wiggins. And all these guys like playing with each other, which you gotta value. Like, it's really hard to make a trade if you have chemistry like they have. I wouldn't touch it. You know?

Thompson at 15. It's a really fun basketball trade. Thompson for Booker. I just I'd be terrified to trade Thompson at this point. I just couldn't do it.

Just from what we've seen in the last 5 weeks, to me, it's an automatic hang up. I just can't do it. I don't know what's there. Like, there's, like the ceiling is opening up, and there's, like, real potential now. There's Pippen potential now.

There's potential for all time guys when you watch him. This is this is beyond just, oh, man. That guy's really good. Like, there's we're at another level of it now. And everyone can see it.

You could see it last night with the Celtics game. He was the best guy in the game. He's in a game with Brooks hits 10 threes. Tatum's in the game. Jaylen Brown's in the game, and Thompson was the most impactful guy in the game.

So I wouldn't I would not trade him.

I would trade him for Booker. You would? I would. I think I think this is where

I wouldn't

do it. I mean, we we raved about him at the beginning, so I don't think anybody's gonna but he's he's 19% from 3 first career. Kawhi was 38% his rookie year. I think he's 38% his 2nd year too.

But how many years was Kawhi in college? At least 3. Right? Yeah. Yeah.

So Thompson's Thompson's at the stage right now where basically Kawhi was a rookie in the Spurs.

I look at Booker as a top 10 bucket getter, and we've seen it in the playoffs. We've seen it deeper in the playoffs. He's 28 years old, and he's a motherfucker in the best possible way. And not in a way that, like, distracts him from the task at hand of the game, but I I don't think he's afraid of anybody. I think when his his level of, like, shot creation and scoring in huge moments is there's not 10 players in the league that are better than him at that.

You know, I'm gonna I'll move him to 16. I'll move Thompson to 17, and I'll move Jaden Williams to 15. My only fear with Thompson is this was it's like, remember that 5 weeks when I'm when Thompson was like the looked like the greatest prospect of any swing man in 10 years? And then, and then he shot 9% from 3 in March. So I'm I'm just He might be I

don't wanna

put too much pressure on him.

Right. But it's kind of the weight of, like, how often would we have ever said no to Booker for Amen Thompson, and it's, like, every day except for the last 12.

Yeah. It's fair. 14, Cade Cunningham. Congrats, by the way. I know, I know you've accept been accepting kudos and plaudits for the last couple months.

You never gave up. You were, I think, driving the k bandwagon. It's been really special this year, and his team's not good. You know? They have some fun role players.

They have some fun veterans, but the amount of responsibility he has game to game this is the argument with LaMelo Ball. The LaMelo Ball defenders would say, well, his team's not good. Well, Kate's team's not good either, and that team is going toe to toe night after night and has a chance to be a pretty fun playing team. I like watching him, and he's been really special. So he's number 14 for me.

To carry this offense, back to the first part of this to be able to do this, I still would like to know over under if I set it at 5a half number of games Monty Williams has watched of the piss Pistons. Should we be taking the over or the under?

Way under. I think he's on an island somewhere.

You don't you don't think he's watched 6 Pistons games? So you just out of curiosity, you don't think he's checked in twice a month?

They should be in ABC sitcom where he has to live with Killian Hayes. It's just the 2 of them in in some beach house in Aruba just ordering the staff around. It's like below below deck to 2,023 Pistons, Monty Williams, and Killeen Hayes. Evan Mobley, number 13. Big win for me.

You had your victory lap with Cade Cunningham. Huge victory lap for me with Evan Mobley. I never gave up. I kinda gave up a little bit. And then Jaren James,

number 12. Would you you would say no. Let's see. This becomes a I can't trade Evan. A Cavs thing.

You would trade size I'd rather have the size than the guard. Okay. If I have somebody who can anchor a championship defense, I'm just picking that if it if all things are equal. Alright. Like, we've seen there's games when Mobley hasn't played where the Cavs look just completely different.

You know? And I don't know. I'd I've I'm really impressed. But Jackson, who you mentioned earlier, that's been the stunner for me. You know, this is a big win for Chris Vernon, who was always, like, you guys that were always, you know, shooting your wad about Mobley.

What about Jaren Jackson, who has better numbers every year and has been in more playoff games? Jaren Jackson's been awesome, and there's a there's a fuck you to him this year that I really like. Like, I that he had that Wimby game this year where he's like, fuck this guy. I don't like this guy. I'm gonna go at him.

He's had a few of those this year.

I know the shooting number wasn't great. It's the only dude that I've seen be, like, to your point, fuck them.

Yeah. It's like, fuck them.

I mean, I I haven't seen that since Scoot in that international game.

Alright, Kai. We're not dead for Scoot. Science of life.

I don't know. I I

don't think they'd come over to

my they'd come over to my house and be like, is he sleeping?

Anyway, Moby, 38, Jaren Jackson, 12. I think that's the right order.

I'm glad I'm glad. I was afraid I was afraid you were gonna do Jaren Jackson in twenties

because you get in his case with the foul trouble and the rebounding. Now he's he's had an awesome year.

When when you think about what he can do offensively in the different ways that you can use him, I've I've never been as big a fan of him as I am right now. I voted him as an all star starter, and I know that wasn't popular. Did you? No way.

No. I I ended up voting for Durant, but I stared at it. I did Wembley, Jokic.

Jokic. Right.

And I looked at Durant and Jaren Jackson for, like, a half hour. And I really wanted to vote for Jaren Jackson. And I just was like, it's the all star game. It's KD. You know, he's the vet.

And I just it it's not his fault that his team has run-in the worst possible way, but I really wanted to do it. I think I actually wish I had done it. I think you made the right call.

Well, very few media members agreed with me, But there were still like, when the votes came out, I was like, am I gonna be the only 1 that did this? And I think there were 7 of us.

I wish you had texted me because you coulda talked me into it in, like, 20 seconds. I was that on the fence. But, You

know, we're all impressionable to a point too, and it just I caught more and more of him during this. And then you back up, and you look at the numbers, and you think about what he does defensively and all these different things. And I was like, I think it's close enough. And, you know, standings isn't necessarily my tie breaker, and I think that'll not be a tie breaker when it comes to the MVP vote if we stay on the same path. And I, you know, I think I I think that Durant, like, the default and LeBron and all that kind of stuff, like, hey, it's the all star game.

It's about the stars, and that's who fans wanna see. Like, I I wouldn't get mad about anybody doing that if it's close. Right?

Yeah. If it's close. Yeah. The LeBron on off court numbers when we had to do the vote, it was just there's no way you could vote for him. He's like a minus minus 8, something like that.

Jaren

Jackson think it's I think it's a little well, I I did it this morning. It's, yeah, it's minus 4.6.

No. It's it's it's gotten better because they're playing better. When we when we had to do the vote, though, it wasn't great. So Jaren Jackson's played 45 of 47 games for the Grizzlies, which is awesome. And he's having his best season all the way.

He's 23 and 6. He's easily their most indispensable player, and they're really good. So kudos to him. I have Davis 11. You saw the last couple games.

Like, he really big boyed Boston. The game last night, you know, he's if he's playing the right shitty team, you really do feel like he could be a 40 20 guy. He's been really good. That a week ago, I was wondering if they should trade him to Golden State. Now Golden State's gone 1 way and the Lakers feel like they have some momentum.

The Phinney Smith thing really helped them. Like, it it it feels like they finally have enough guys to at least guard perimeter guys decently now, And they don't have to play connect as much. So Reeves can be like the 1 guy you can kinda hunt, but that's it. Vincent's playing better. And then Lebron's had a little more energy on defense, just a little tiny bit.

But, I'm a little more hopeful for them than I was a week ago. A week ago, I was like, this team's done. They have no chance.

Super impressed with them in person when they house the Celtics. I know people can point to the Celtics. What was it? 57. But I just hate, like, how everybody just throws.

Anytime any team loses, you're just like, oh, back to back, up. You know? Look at this stretch, and and I understand it. But and the Lakers control that game from the jump, and it's very clear

bullied them too. It it was they knocked them around.

I thought they were really physical in a way that was was, like, inspiring. And not that I went outside and started, you know, fighting people, but I

That would have been awesome.

Was well, I wasn't that upset. I wanted to get home and get something to eat because it was late. But I think D'Angelo Russell just being removed from all of the possibilities and all the possessions and all the stuff that he does that may not show up. Like, oh, look at the shooting numbers. Like, oh, look at this.

And he has a better net rating than LeBron, all these different things. It's like, yeah, man. But it's just there's just times where you know, like, what the hell is he doing right now? And so their best spacing closing group was their worst defensive perimeter group, so they were kinda stuck. And I think removing that removes some of the stuff with them being stuck, and I, you know, it's weird with them because I kinda like them, but I also think, like, the standard is that when they're not a true title contender, they get so dismissed.

And then we're just like, oh, they stink. It's like they don't they don't stink. Like, there's 7 guys there that I kinda like. But then I have to think about who am I picking them against in the playoffs in the first round, and that becomes more challenging.

They're at least just out. They're at least a bitch in the round 1. You like, they from that's where they've at least taken this season. The Celtic game, whatever. There were real the Celtics had weird coaching in that game.

There was a weird energy. They'd played the OT game night before. The warriors game was the 1 that really impressed me because I thought the warriors needed the game. They wanted the game as national TV. I wasn't sold on the Lakers at all, but I I they did the same thing they did to Boston on Thursday.

I was like, oh, shit. This this team's big. Davis is really engaged. LeBron seems like he, kinda starting to like the roster a little bit. And I really think Reeves, who killed the Celtics, has turned into a very fun offensive player.

And that and Reddick's not afraid to run shit through him and marginalize LeBron for a couple, you know, half a quarter in crunch time. Like, if if Reeves has the right matchup, they'll go to him. They'll actually use him, which they weren't doing last year.

The other hope is that, you know, LeBron defensively is gonna be a different version of himself in the playoffs. Yeah. I mean, it's it's terrible right now, and it has been. I mean, there's just so many moments you can look at and be like, well, if he has to move, like, it'll be times where he'll he'll help to where the help doesn't need to be there, but at least it looks like he's defending somebody. And it's like, okay.

But now you Yeah. You just you just messed up the entire rotation of the stuff. And I get it. Like, he's 40 years old. And that's why there was that weird stretch, like, 10 games in or something where they were winning games, and he was playing out of his mind in his intensity.

I was like, what? What is this? Like, are you gonna try to keep up this kind of pace? Like, this doesn't make any sense. So that actually is a positive in that I wonder you know, you gear it up.

You have a little bit more of a break during the playoffs if you can see a more engaged version of him where defensively, he's just trying to survive the season play as many games as he can, you know, help them be kind of a mid seed team in the west. I still think some of their best offensive possessions is when he's initiating it because it would make sense because he's so smart and he's still so good.

Well, especially transition is the other thing. His transition stuff is still great. You know? Like, his ability to read at half court. Oh, there's only 2 guys there.

I'm just gonna go through them, and I'm bigger than them, and I'm gonna get a layup. And the past, he still has all this stuff.

Think about it, though. How much how much easier it is to move when you know where you're moving

Yeah.

As opposed to having to move in relationship to the other person moving where you have no idea where they're going. So when when he knows everything that he's doing, it's still incredibly impressive. And so that window of when he played that hard, even though I was like, man, this this dude is like it was a bunch of games in a row. I was like, he's really going for it. I wonder, like, if that's actually something to look at.

We're like, okay. Well, at least that had happened at some point this season even if from that time on. Yeah. I guess it's been a little bit better lately, but there was there was a stretch

to see where it's Lakers have been up and down, but they're in a nice little nice little spot right now. Davis so this untouchables group, group b, Davis, 11, Jalen Brunson, 10, Donovan Mitchell, 9. And Mitchell's had, I just love the area side. And they're not playing huge minutes. It there he's really deferred and, just seems like he's been an awesome teammate this year, and I think he's the biggest reason they're winning.

Last group. So this is a big argument coming out of the gate. This last group, completely and utterly untouchable. And I had Paolo number 8. And I struggled with that more than I think any other name in the list, whether he should be in this final group or be in the group that we just went through.

And I couldn't shake those first couple games before he got hurt this season, how young he is, and how I just wouldn't trade him. Like, I just I just wouldn't be able to do it. Like, to me, he's a completely utterly untouchable, but is he too high?

I don't think so.

Okay. Good. And I'm glad you put him in. Stretch

it's that stretch last year. I think he's another guy that you have to factor in who was available around him. Orlando, statistically, so bad offensively, and that also speaks to losing France for that long on top of losing Paulo. Yeah. So I think there's a lot of people that could try to throw it, and he's had some dud of games, you know, some of the shooting numbers since he's come back.

It does. I don't I wouldn't say he's a 100%. I'm gonna No. Won't worry about that in March.

What I love about him is that I know he can fill it up, but he also wants everybody to be involved. And that's why I loved him at Duke. It's why I've always argued for him is that, you know, the difference between like, Jalen Green can't see the way Paulo sees the game, and that's why I'm a Paolo fan.

Would you have him above or below Anthony Edwards who have at number 7? I'd have him behind him. Me too. Well, Anthony Edwards is our number 7. Taking some shit this year.

Little bit of a backlash season. You knew it was coming. Knew it. The backlash season was happening. I I wish it was gonna

be a start of Ben on a FanDuel. Yeah.

But it

was gonna happen in the Olympics, like, leading up to it. After his run through the playoffs, he was like, I'm the number 1 option. It's like, or Yeah. Or you're gonna be watching.

It's part of the process. How do you handle adversity? How do you handle annoying media questions about adversity? How do you handle tough losses? We're fine.

Tatum, number 6. Giannis, number 5.

Lucas number Stop. Sorry. You're gonna think that you're gonna you're gonna be so happy right now. Giannis is better than Tatum. Tatum is the better value.

Okay. Make the case. Tatum plays all the time.

They're about the same age. Right?

No. Tatum's

what? He turned 20 Tatum's 26? So Giannis is 2 years older than him?

No. Giannis turned 30 in December. Tatum

Oh, shit. Giannis is 30.

Yeah. Tatum turns 27 in March. So when you sent that, I was I was thinking that you were doing that on purpose because people were gonna give you shit for the Tatum.

I didn't think that at all. I thought Giannis was 28.

There has not been a day.

Great ones make mistakes.

There's not been a day where I thought Tatum was better than Giannis, although

No. You're getting 4 extra years.

And I'll tell you, like, Tatum this year, man, I think he's incredible. Like, I know the numbers may not scream it at you if you're not paying attention, but to see what he is doing to some of these defenses and what they're trying to do to him. And like Houston last night, the entire thing was blitz him, double him, and he was still turning the corner on some of these traps. And it wasn't like he was scoring every single time, but there's there's there's not something like that that just goes, oh, wow. Look at this jump.

Look at the shooting number. Look at the scoring. Because the shooting for the team is down, which is another part of the Celtics thing. This is the best Tatum's ever played. I've never, you know, much like I was talking about with Jaren Jackson.

Like, this is the best I've ever felt about Tatum. And the fact the age thing here is I think he actually be shubaranked at head of downs.

2 things. Responsibility, it's among the toughest in the league, what he does every night. Durability, it's surprising when he doesn't play. And when you saw and I had saw those back to back LA games in person. Both teams' strategy was just beat the shit out of Tatum.

Make them work. Don't let him get to his if he's gonna get to his spot, make him have to shove his way there. Always have a guy behind him. Always chip him. Like, he's almost treated like the Pats treated Marshall Faulk in that Super Bowl.

But everybody's every smart team's game plan is push him, nudge him, shove him, just make it hard for him for 4 quarters.

Or like Ben Coats in the end zone. Bet

or my guy Ben Coats getting tackled by 4 Dolphins at the same time. But he just keeps coming back. And that if there's a 1 disappointing thing with me with him, it's just like when you play, like, the Clippers backups, that's the kind of game this year where SGA is like, oh, I'm at 55. Don't worry. Everybody could take the night off.

And Tatum's missing that 1 kind of, lookout. I'm scorched earth tonight. And but that's it. That if you're gonna nitpick, that's really the only nitpick. Where it's like, tonight's the night where Tatum just scores 47 and we kill whoever we're playing.

He's just not that kind of player, but I think it's okay. He gets everybody involved, and this is the best he's ever played. We agree. I can't put him ahead of Luca Donchichet 4.

No. That's fine. Although there's an availability thing going on there where it's not

That's why he dropped. Like, Luca has never been number 1 in the rankings, and it it probably might not ever happen because of the durability thing with him. Whereas, like, Shea is number 3. I have Jokic too. And then for the first time, a new number 1.

We've only had, I think, 10, 11, 12 number ones ever. Victor Nguayama. Oh. Yeah. Not Richardson.

Wembley, number 1. I think he has to be. As great Jokic is having 1 of the great offensive seasons in the history of the league and is the best teammate since bird of Magic and Curry. And, if you wanna win a title, he'd be the 1st pick. But I don't know from a trade asset standpoint.

The Spurs aren't even, like they're not you're you're saying the word, hey. Would you ever trade Vic and they're hanging up? You're just getting the v and the I out. It's a hang up. So he's number

They're like, no. We were calling about a 3 way with Crutchy.

You're like, what? Oh, they caught you back. So are you good with that?

Yeah. Okay. I I don't know where this Jokic thing is gonna end up all time because, like, this this stretch is, like, so ridiculous. And that's why when we were in Denver, I I meant this. Like, I hope he gets another 1 so that the simpletons are allowed to accept him into a higher tier.

And I know that sounds like shitty for me to say it, but I just get so tired of, like, when I look at how people rank stuff, and be like, do you really wanna be this simple? You just wanna count stuff? Yeah. Like, that's all it ever is to you is that this guy was good because of this, and this guy was bad because of that. Then what's the point of watching any of this stuff?

Happened a lot with college football, I thought, this year too. And I really hope, like, Jokic gets the 1 that allows him to be talked about in the way that he deserves to be talked about because of what this stretch is.

Would you put the finals MVP above or below resurrecting Westbrook's career as the greatest feat of his career If you had to rank them 1 too.

Westbrook Westbrook I was thinking about this the other day, and I don't know if this is gonna work. But, like, Westbrook's your buddy from home that just, you know, has it dialed in, and everybody knows the routine. You know, the girls probably maybe liked him when he was in high school or whatever. But then if you bring him to, like, LA, and you've been living in LA for a few years, and you should be like, hey, look, dude, just so you know, like, it's gonna be harder out here.

Yeah. Yeah.

And they're gonna be competing with, like, different dudes, and, like, it's up to you to accept the fact that, like, you're not gonna get into some places, and people are gonna big time you. And that if you recognize a guy from a TV show and you tell him that you're a big fan, he's not gonna talk to you and he's gonna walk away. Like, they're just gonna smell the non LA on you. Yeah. And you'll have to adjust.

And some people leave and never come back because they hated their experience. And I think Westbrook showed up to Denver being like, I do get it. Like, I do my hometown stuff might not work. I find Westbrook in this run funny because he can be almost too deferential, where he'll, like, wanna get it back to Jokic in a spot where it's not even, like, a great catch for Jokic because Westbrook doesn't wanna do all the things that he's been criticized for doing in the past. Now I still think there's a version of this with the spacing with Gordon and Westbrook to close, like, a playoff game.

Like, yeah. I'm allowing, like, is that actually going to happen? But they needed him. They needed him. He was cheap.

He was and he's giving him, like, value minutes.

He gives them durability, minutes, and stats. They needed all 3. But They did. Right. I think Danny Chao wrote a great piece for the ringer about this last week.

It's the most unlikely connection of any 2 players we've had in a while. And for me, like, you know, as as an obvious giant Jokic fan, this is, like, the stuff that made Bird and Magic so special. They could resuscitate guys. Like, Magic did this with Bob McAdoo. You know, Bird did this with Walton in 86, and even, like, bit players like Seechtting and whoever.

Gerald Harrison. Yeah. But the fact that Jokic took Westbrook, who not only was not an asset, but this might have been the only team in the league that would have signed him. And somebody were like, oh my god. How's this gonna work?

Holy shit. And then turns him, and they have this, like, real ESP thing now. And Jokic loves him. I think that's I think it's such like a feather in his cap just historically that he can he can basically play with any player in the league and make them better, which is, like, the highest level of basketball he can reach.

Westbrook's really appreciated, though. He's appreciated more about players than he is by those of us that don't play because I think they look at what he did at his peak, and there is a respect for him that we probably don't understand as much. But you also realize with Westbrook, like, which version are we getting? Because the LA thing with the Lakers was a disaster, and I think he resented so much of the dynamic there, which I can even see his his point of view on that.

He was disrespected, marginalized, and not used correctly, and then blamed for everything and thrown into every single trade room where possible. So, yeah, he wasn't a huge fan.

True. But, I mean, it's not like he it like, his style of play was going to lead to, oh, this doesn't work. Like, once again, the players expect to be GMs, or sometimes I'm like, do you not watch league pass? Like, how do you not understand, like, how this is gonna clog up some of the things that you'll wanna do?

Like, the Clippers the Clippers thing last year, how bad he was. No. Because he was when it seemed like his career was over. Right.

The Dallas playoff series when he decided to, like, prioritize just being, like, pissed off at everybody and taking himself out in, like, huge spots where you're like, what are you doing right now?

He's a pissy mania.

Yeah. Right. It's like you can like, you're getting us any buckets or anything? No. So now we can't even trust you to be out there.

So, you know, you would think that it'd be easy for somebody to go, hey. Look. All you have to do with Jokic is just cut, man. Be be ready and cut. And when you think he doesn't see you, he actually still sees you.

So just cut. And and then it turned out Westbrook was 1 of the better cutters in the league. Like, who knew? Been watching him since 2008, and and all of a sudden, he's like this supernatural first step cut, almost like a wide receiver coming off the line of scrimmage. And you'll find him every time.

We'll worry, though, because there's times where you can see, like, in a game or if he has, like, an open look from 3 in the corner, and I know the corner numbers are really good. Right? But if he clanks it in a big spot, like, the next time he may get that catch in the same look, you can see him just not wanna I've seen that happen. So I don't know if there's numbers that would tell me that it's it's true, not true, but I've seen him where it's just clear as day. Okay.

He doesn't wanna pull the trigger on this, And I don't know if it's like, hey. I just bricked the last 1, and this is a big spot. I don't know if it's him being deferential of, like, hey. Let me get it back to Jokic. I wonder what the Jokic Murray 2 man game in a playoff series when you have Gordon or you have that spacing decision that Minnesota always messes with where it's like, hey.

Put Rudy on Gordon because that way, Rudy can freelance off of him. That gives Nas the Jokic matchup that Cat did so well with last year. Can you put can you run the 2 man game if Gordon and Westbrook are both on the other side? And are you gonna start, like, dealing with some real spacing issues?

And we'll teams get used to it after 2 weeks of games where they're like, oh, alright. Game 4. Now I understand what they're doing.

That's the only thing that when I watch it, I go, you know, I wonder what that'll look like then. But up until this point, it's been to your point. For a team that we were like, where's the depth? Just his energy. And even, like, a diminished version of Westbrook athletically, when he starts going, and he realizes he's gonna kinda get the ball back because Jokic is just that good Yeah.

It motivates you to be be, like, involved in all of this stuff. Like, hey, if I keep cutting, I get just all these easy baskets because I'm still so much quicker even though it's later in his career.

I can't believe we just spent 3 minutes talking about Russell Westbrook, but it was totally worth it because it it speaks to Jokic. Like, the fact that,

that Look at look what we did today. I said Trae Young was too low. I took Harden's side and something.

I was incredibly, incredibly concerned about that Denver team, and now I think they're fine. And they're they'll be there in the end. We'll see if they can get a buyout guy or just 1 other piece. Maybe they can dump Zeke Nadeau and have some trade flexibility. Anyway, group a.

Palo number 8, Anthony Edwards, Giannis, 6, Tatum, 5, Doncic, SGA, Jokic, and our new number 1, Victor Wampanyama, who probably at some point this season is gonna have, like, a 40, 20, 12 block game with, like, 7 assists. He's gonna he'll have some box score that we've never seen before, but we've seen 30 Jokic box scores I think I've never seen before this year. Alright. That was fun. This is gonna go up on the ringer.com later in the week, the official list.

My conciliatory, Rossello, thank you so much for doing this. You have 2 more podcasts this week for you. Right?

Yeah. Wednesday and then, a loaded football show on Friday. Loaded? Loaded.

Loaded. Okay. Great to see you, Russell.

Thank you.

Alright. That's it for the podcast. Thanks to Russillo. Thanks to Kyle and Gahau and Saruti as always. I will be back with another podcast on Thursday.

Don't forget, you can watch this on the, Bill Simmons YouTube channel. You can watch the new rewatchables we did before sunrise. That is on the Ringer movies YouTube channel, and I'll see you on Thursday. Must be 21 plus in president select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus in president DC. Gambling problem, call 100 gambler or visit rgdashhelp.com.

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