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[00:00:00]

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[00:00:30]

See stores for details as promised yesterday when everyone was yelling at each other at the end of the postgame show, Chris Coady is here replacing softball wielding Mike Ryan. Billy Gill will be here momentarily. Mike is here but will remain quiet. He says he's watching. He's watching intently while eating popcorn, rooting for this segment to fail without him. But Billy has now joined the Zoome. And I wanted to talk to David Sampson about an assortment of things that happen in sports last night from the executive level on.

[00:01:02]

But I also, at the end of this, want to bring in Billy and Chris to ask some Marland specific questions. Let's start here, David. Everything that happened last night, pretty breathtaking. We're kind of in the middle of a modern day civil rights movement, a modern day civil war. What did you make of what it is you were observing last night in this country and in sports? I found myself thinking back to March 11th when Rudy Gobert tested positive for covid and within minutes the NBA had canceled and shut down and it sort of started the domino effect and all the other sports followed suit.

[00:01:41]

When word came out that the Bucs were not leaving the locker room, the first question I had is why are the magic on the floor? Is it possible that the Bucs did not communicate with anybody? Because that would seem silly to me. I wouldn't have understood. And now as I'm looking back and had a night where I've been thinking about it and as usual, did not sleep, there were two things of note. One was the magic on the floor, and two was the statement by the owners of the Bucs.

[00:02:10]

There were so many statements last night that I had to literally print them and read them and figure out in Puzzle's who released what, when and where. The owners of the Bucs actually said in their statement, While we wish we had been aware, while we weren't aware, we had no idea what was going on. We support our players. I was flabbergasted by that. As a president of a team in that bubble, there's not one thing that happened over my 18 years that I was.

[00:02:40]

Oh, my God, what a surprise. How did this happen? What's going on? You've got to be a part of those conversations because otherwise things come off as disorganized. And that's what I felt was going on in sports last night. The Bucs don't play. And then all of a sudden we're waiting to see what happens, then the thunder and rockets say that they're going to boycott the Lakers don't have a chance to boycott because then the NBA releases a statement with the union saying, we have decided to postpone all three games.

[00:03:13]

They didn't even give a chance to the Lakers to boycott. Then you think, what are the Brewers going to do? I immediately knew the Brewers weren't going to play in MLB because they simply couldn't. But what would happen with the rest of the league? And it was so uncomfortable. You had some teams warming up, you had some teams playing, not knowing what was happening. Then you had teams saying, here's the lineup. Oh, no, there's no lineup.

[00:03:35]

The Dodgers released a lineup and then didn't play. You had Jason Heyward saying, please play, but I'm not going to play. It just seemed as though everyone was on their heels last night. And I think that that took away a little bit of the impact of what was trying to occur.

[00:03:51]

I would disagree with you on this front. Right. The discomfort is something that is necessary in order for all of this to happen. The lack of precedent in what it is that we're witnessing makes it very hard for me to criticize people acting in real time. You can absolutely say that it appears that the Bucs acted alone and it could have been more organized. But to me, that's an ancillary point on everything that's happening. We just watched a very high money, high leverage, high pressure situation.

[00:04:22]

We just watched a bunch of players do something that doesn't have a precedent in American sports.

[00:04:27]

And that, to me, was incredibly impactful and powerful. I guess I'm talking increments, so what I wanted to see happen and what I think then happened with the bucks, the best part of last night is when word came out that the bucks were actually on the phone with the lieutenant governor of Wisconsin, the attorney general, and trying to figure out how they can effectuate change because just not playing and just striking, which is what the players were doing.

[00:04:53]

I'm not sure what that accomplishes, but if you then take a stand not to bring awareness, because while this brought more awareness to what happened in Kenosha, it was already above the fold. It was already something that everyone knew had happened. What they then did with action is when the difference can be made and figuring out how to talk to people in Congress and the legislature to actually pass laws to educate police on brutality, to make laws about pressing charges, et cetera.

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That's one important change can take place.

[00:05:26]

What would you have been advising in the moment? Let's put you in the bubble. A president of one of the teams, your players. There's great unrest. There's anger, there's emotion. They don't feel like they should be there. You're partners with your league and everyone worked together on this in a way that's unusual in terms of partnership between players listening to players. What would you have done? What would you have advised?

[00:05:49]

Well, the red flag went up when the Raptors player Fred VanVleet talked about boycotting and I think the NBA needed to get right into it once they heard one player. Once you hear a word like that, I immediately on nothing personal, talked about it in detail before the Bucs boycotted last night. We keep calling it a boycott. We should use the word strike. That's what it was, not a boycott. But when you hear that word, you then start meeting with your players.

[00:06:16]

You start being in communication with the league. If I'm the president of the Raptors, the first thing I'm doing is sitting down with the players and saying, listen, you're talking publicly about not playing. If this is something that you are serious about, then let's do it in a way that is serious and organised and can have the maximum impact on actual change, because that is where differences get made.

[00:06:41]

So I'm sitting with the players. I'm not going to let myself be surprised at all and I'm not going to tell them they can't do it. But I'm going to talk to them about the ramifications of doing it and what it means to do it for a day or two days or actually walk out of the bubble completely.

[00:06:57]

But, David, from a player's perspective, isn't it more impactful if you say, you know what, I don't care what the boss is saying, I don't care what managers management says. We're doing this whether they know it or not, we're doing this.

[00:07:08]

So, no, I do not think that's more impactful because as a president, I'm not telling them that they shouldn't be doing it because I can't walk in their shoes, nor can I mean, I'm a person of privilege and I'm white. I have to be very sensitive to that fact. And especially in the NBA, which is predominantly African-American. I'm going to take their lead on this issue from the beginning. But I want to be help. I want to help them.

[00:07:32]

I'm going to be their facilitator. It's not me against them. That's arbitration. That's contract negotiation. That's when union goes against management. This is not a situation where it's not us against them. I do not agree with you, not in this situation.

[00:07:46]

Explain to me how you go about maximizing it, though, because you feel like the disorganization of the movement has hurt the movement. I don't agree with you, but I can understand how you'd arrive at the place that this is not maximize change. So explain to me how you would have gone about getting maximized, real systemic change with the movement. Well, we're here.

[00:08:07]

We're only in the second inning, Dan. So the movement that unfortunately has been going on for hundreds of years. So some people would say it's been going on. So we have to be late in the game.

[00:08:15]

But in terms of what athletes are doing, this is just the beginning. And so they talked about their discomfort, the players did going into the bubble back when Kyrie Irving said we shouldn't be playing. The focus should be on what's going on in the real world. But the games went on, money prevailed, the bubble happened. I would be simply saying, if you want to have maximum impact, we shut down the season not because of covid, but you stand up and you walk out of the bubble.

[00:08:44]

Here's what happens if you do financially. This will impact the salary cap going forward. This will impact free agency. There's there is a chance that your earning power will diminish. So just know going in, that's the real world impact. On the other hand, if you walk out as a group and you spend the next four weeks until September 12th, the next five weeks until October 12th, I mean, which is when the season was going to end and you lobby your legislators, you take part in protests, peaceful protests, and you start educating and changing.

[00:09:18]

I will stand by you as a president of a team, and I will do it with you in our community, but only do it if you recognize and understand. The impact on the field as well as off the field, hugely weird time, and that they can't actually physically walk out without violating the protocols of a different kind of virus that isn't this racial virus that has plagued black people across centuries. I thought, David, that it wasn't coincidental that this escalated to the point that it did not.

[00:09:51]

Seven shots to the back of a black man. Heartbreaking, though, that was by itself. But the juxtaposition of that with 17 year old kid walking across state lines with a weapon bigger than him, walking past police officers on video with his hands up and nothing happening to him as police officers just drove past him during an inflamed time. As the Republican National Convention feeds on the fear and the idea of the inner cities sort of infecting the housewife, the white housewife being a voting platform issue where Donald Trump is tweeting out, hey, I will protect you from the inner cities, I thought the juxtaposition is what made the sport shut down.

[00:10:36]

I don't actually think it was merely seven shots to the back of an unarmed man.

[00:10:42]

I think that what happened in Kenosha after Blake got shot. Right. You have to look at that. And you've brought up a point that no one wants to talk about. But it is during the time of the Republican National Convention. And it is noteworthy not just what's going on in the inner cities, but by the way, no mention of Hurricane Laurer and climate change and all of the other things that are not part of their platform and why they are trying to get re-elected.

[00:11:08]

But what the players decided, this has been bubbling for me, pun not intended. This wasn't about what I think his name is Rittenhouse. I don't want to give him any attention what that kid and what that murderer did. But the reality is that players had been feeling this before, that they had been feeling in this bubble that they were away from their families, that they felt powerless. They felt literally like the men in the bubble, and they felt as though that it was not appropriate what was going on in the bubble.

[00:11:35]

I think what happened in Kenosha was almost the straw that may have finally broken the camel's back where the players said, no, mass, I cannot do this anymore. But again, if you don't have a plan, then you don't have an impact, do you? Go back and play today? Do you play tomorrow? Do you just postpone game five for a day or two and then everything goes back to normal? The meeting today that will take place with the Board of Governors and with the union deciding what's going to happen in National Basketball Association.

[00:12:06]

This is where the rubber hits the road and history is made. If games start again tomorrow or Saturday without any action plan, then what actually took place yesterday does not have the long term meaning that it could if they go all the way. And when you're going to be in this position, sometimes you have to go all the way.

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Well, what do you think's going to happen here? You think it doesn't end up working if it's a week, if they suspended for a week and say, look, we are objecting to a week's worth of games and we want to pause put on this, but we are returning, what is the most forceful of the options to bail on everything?

[00:12:44]

The most forceful and impactful is to stop the entire season and to leave the bubble and to go into their communities, each of the teams, into their communities, and start the process of action. If you delay by a week, here's what has to happen. You have to call ESPN and ABC and in TNT and figure out will they agree to extend the season to October 19th instead of to October 12th? What will the windows to be? Remember, you had national TV partners who are scrambling to fill programming by putting old movies or doing some sort of studio show, figuring out what to do.

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That's a real world real money issue. And that is part of this. You can't ignore the business side.

[00:13:26]

Explain to me, explain to me the business side, what is being cost right now in real dollars, like who's getting hit the hardest? What are the logistical difficulties for the television partners? Who's getting hit the most?

[00:13:39]

So the cynic in me, when the Bucks decided not to play, I looked at the TV schedule and realized that the Bucks were on NBA TV yesterday while the Thunder and the Lakers were on TNT for a double header. So I thought, wow, maybe this is what they're doing. They're going to boycott and protest and strike and not play the game on NBA TV. And that will not have a deleterious impact financially on the league or the players. But then the TNT games will continue.

[00:14:06]

Then when they postponed all the games, that's when it got financially serious. TNT has an opportunity to say, hey, you're breaching our contract. They could say to the NBA, you have to perform. You have not delivered the product that you promised to deliver. We were promised a live game. What really is going to happen, though, is that TNT will be flexible. ESPN will have no choice but to think these are good partnerships.

[00:14:33]

So these are solid relationships the head of these companies have with the commissioner of the sport. Those relationships do end up mattering in terms of how people work together. That's if there's a two day delay, but if the entire postseason is canceled. To me, that changes the equation. That will strain any relationship when you're walking away from the opportunity for that much revenue for owners to get and that much revenue that eventually trickles down to the players. So I think that relationship is going to be tested if the games do not continue and all teams walk out.

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I don't believe for a minute that the result of today's meetings will be one or two teams leave the bubble and the rest of the teams continue to play for the championship. I think there will be unanimity to either play or not play.

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But this is kind of going back to viewing it as the perspective of an executive or team president, right? I don't think that the players really care what the president of TNT thinks when they're fighting social injustice and people are getting shot.

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So I think that's just a small way of looking at it. It's not I'm not saying that it matters more because it doesn't. But to not take that into the equation is silly and almost immature. The players are being told by their by Michelle Roberts, the head of their union, they are being told what are the ramifications of not playing the financial ramifications? It's not about choosing the president of TNT over a black an innocent black man getting shot seven times and paralyzed.

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That's you're not measuring those two against each other. You're trying to figure out how do I do my job, how do I get paid and how do I make change? It is possible to do all of those things.

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This is amazing from this perspective, David, because I think we all agree that Adam Silver is a pretty damn good leader. And somehow in the middle of this, he got his sport functioning in a bubble, got it up and running under unbelievably difficult circumstances. And now this arrives to test his leadership. What an unenviable leadership position, because he cannot tell his employees, hey, stand down, because it appears wrong in his position to be able to tell them to start talking to them about money and real life issues that you're talking about that are practical business considerations.

[00:16:57]

Money matters. It matters everywhere. But to talk to his players about that right now is going to ring hollow. Like, that's not that's not going to be helpful. It's going to feel to the players more like this guy is trying to persuade us in order to protect his thing and our golden goose. Yeah.

[00:17:16]

Adam Silver is too smart to have that conversation. That's not how it's happening. It's coming from union leaders. Adam Silver is making sure that the union leaders understand the exact ramifications and he's going to then take their lead. Adam Silver is in the unenviable position, because when you're a commissioner and you don't have power, it feels horrible. And Adam Silver right now, because his league is predominantly black, he does not have power and he's got to wait to see.

[00:17:42]

But all he can do is educate and then let players make the decision. Now, he can suggest to them, don't do this piecemeal. Don't do that because it's not going to be good for you as a union or for the players or for contracts or for the league. But if you all make a decision, I will stand by you.

[00:17:59]

Anything else from yesterday that you found interesting or that you have a different angle on because you are looking at it as an executive?

[00:18:08]

I was disappointed in what happened in baseball. I really was. And I was disappointed in what happened in hockey. Hockey chose to do a moment of reflection, and I thought that they did that because in their minds, they're they're a white sport and they just continue to play. And in baseball, they let each team or each player make a decision. And the way it came out, you're saying that during times of unrest, during times of change, discomfort is necessary for that change.

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And what I'm saying is, because the theme has been the same for so long, there's been so much systemic racism and social unrest that it's not as though this is something that just happened like a hurricane or like an earthquake or some sort of acute situation. This is not an acute situation. This is a tragedy and a nightmare that has happened again and again and again.

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So I think that baseball was on its heels when it didn't need to be. David, do you have examples of because you mentioned how with this example with the NBA players or someone in your position is looking at the players like I just want to help you here, just keep me in the conversation. I can be an ally here. Do you have an example of, like a Marlins team keeping you in the dark and something where you had to have that talk with them?

[00:19:27]

Oh, I can I can go back to and it's certainly it wasn't a matter of life or death. But with Zeca, the Marlins were supposed to play in Puerto Rico. And I got word that some of the Marlins were uncomfortable, didn't want to go there, because at the time it was thought that if your wife is pregnant or if you are thinking of having a child, that if you could have a child born with a disability, there could be some sort of long term impact from Zika.

[00:19:52]

So I got word that our players were thinking of not going. And I went and spoke to them. And I remember Craig Breslow was on that team in Ivy League educated guy, and Tom Keller was a part of that. And we would and I said to them, listen, we got to meet, but here's what we're doing. I'm bringing in people from MLB. I'm bringing in doctors. We're going to have a team meeting and we're going to inform you why we think it's safe for you all to go to Puerto Rico.

[00:20:17]

This matters to MLB. We were getting paid to go to Puerto Rico. The Marlins were. So this was going to be a profit for us because we would make more money by playing a home game in Puerto Rico than at Marlins Park. And so we had the meeting and I could see during the meeting that there was no way these players were going to be convinced that they were going to go. So I remember leaving the meeting and calling Major League Baseball the commissioner's office and saying, listen, we got a problem.

[00:20:42]

Our guys are not going to Puerto Rico. And they then got in touch with the union in those games, ended up getting canceled. But I definitely tried to convince them. But sometimes you have to know when to hold them and know when to fold them. And that time I had to fold them.

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What is Puerto Rico pay for those games? Like how much money is involved with those transduction?

[00:21:01]

So they have a promoter. But the way it is that when you give up a home game, when you play an international game, you get your home revenue. What you would make during the game, you get that replaced. So it's it's a zero sum game for you. But what I was able to do with MLB is say, listen, here's our numbers. But this game against the pirates, that's going to be a big game. So we weren't going to have three thousand people if this game we were going to have twenty thousand people at this game.

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So this is the replacement that we're going to need to do this deal. And it's still far less than the Yankees would do.

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So we would still be allowed to go, but that game would become profitable if you just made Billy burst out laughing and and allow us to segway into cynical Billy and Chris. Yes, Sampson is on record, admitting to all sorts of attendance, attendance, fudging in his history with the marlin.

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It's that it's just like there's no way but see things like. Oh, yeah, you're right, David. On Thursday against the pirates instead of three thousand, we're going to get twenty thousand. Here's twenty thousand four hundred.

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But you're wrong. So it's a negotiation. So they need to remember baseball needs an international presence. They would look to teams like the Marlins who don't have a lot of home game that they have to replace as a team. That makes sense to do these international games. So I know that I'm in the driver's seat, not negotiation. And even if it's an extra hundred grand plus paying for the extra flights because we're flying to Puerto Rico instead of a home game, plus paying for the damage that the players would get, I know that we're going to make more money than we would have, but I'm going to negotiate hard because this is an opportunity to get some sort of incremental money.

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Why wouldn't I do that?

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The teams ever turn that down? Yes, there are teams who turned down Plan International, the time I was on the International Committee and I wanted to pass a rule which mandated teams had to agree, like teams like the Yankees don't like leaving. And they went to London. They understood when they played the Red Sox in London, but they weren't happy about it because they think it interrupts their season. They think the long flights bother the players and yadda, yadda, yadda.

[00:23:05]

My view always was expanding the game and the footprint of the game is going to be helpful to the industry financially. What's the most random committee you've ever been on? In baseball. Well, I was just going to say what a pathetic brag right there, I'm on the Internet. I was on the International Committee. You said it with a degree of pride in all of us that stifled yawns in your face.

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Yeah, no, that was not a that was not a what's the ghost or a gas lighter. There's some swag. There's some word. It's really cool.

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I don't know. Humble brag. No, I don't think that's it. But whatever it is, I'm not bragging. I was saying that there are committees. I always wanted to be on more committees. And I enjoyed doing the committees in baseball because I felt as though it gave me another seat in the room where I thought it happened. And I always was in favor of getting myself involved for the betterment of not just the Marlins, but baseball in general.

[00:24:01]

Time now for the hard hitting questions. Let's see what Chris and Billy have here. They've been wanting a crack at the Marlins team president for a long time. Billy is now shaking his head. No, these are not hard questions.

[00:24:14]

It's not that these are hard questions, David. This is what happened. All right. Dan wanted us to fight with you forever. And we're kind of like we don't really want to fight with David, right? Like I like you as a person. I think that you're a nice person. I think this is an executive. You're not really like down here. And I think that you get that. But, like, I don't wanna fight with you.

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So Dan's been trying to Eggertsson and fight and do this thing. And yesterday he's like, I want you guys to fight. I want you to fight. And this is how I'd best describe it. It's like dance like, hey, let's go to the zoo. And you're like, I really don't want to go to the zoo dance.

[00:24:44]

And he shows up at your house with a zebra and a giraffe and it's like, OK, like, what do I to do, not want to see us.

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And this is how I let me go down before the Lions and Tigers show up.

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This is how I would best describe it. Any time we mention Samson is an authority on our show on something that he has said that is illuminating where we're quoting him, you roll your eyes every single time, no matter where you are, and zoom somewhere else because you're cynical about what it is that he did to your beloved baseball team. And so I wanted to get you guys on here to talk to him about it. So I brought the zoo to you.

[00:25:23]

I think of David more as a I don't know what what kind of animal would David be? An aardvark is not threatening in any way. I don't know what kind of animal David would like to be an anteater maybe. I don't know what kind of animal would he be. Regardless, I want you guys to ask him whatever it is that you have in the way of questions you've always wanted to ask him. Oh, Dan, I'm going to crack them open like an egg.

[00:25:47]

David, what's the most romantic thing you've ever done? The most romantic. He's not a romantic. Oh, that's not true.

[00:25:54]

I, I when I first died, I actually answering that the most.

[00:26:03]

You got him in a way that Mike Ryan couldn't even. He is he is red-faced and speechless. Yes. The most romantic thing.

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And I asked my wife to marry me.

[00:26:21]

I did it in the same hotel room where I first where we had our first physical contact.

[00:26:29]

And I got to the room early and I put up I took down the hotel and put up different art. That meant something to us.

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I was going to be no, no, no, because that was going to be the room one of the posters would like. Some things are secret and I made it so it was like a layer. So when she came in, she'd have no choice but to finally have sex. And it was it was something it was sort of it actually was pretty romantic.

[00:27:00]

It is pretty romantic. What did you have a picture? You had pictures of him up in the room, Chris, taking down the hotel art and putting up pictures of him.

[00:27:08]

Yeah, like boardwalk pictures a week before a silk robe. I had to remember that I was eighteen at the time. So I think that your view of of my prowess is so wrong. It has evolved over time.

[00:27:23]

I can only say that I love that Chris is first bid on difficult question asking is my father's version of a hard hitting journalism on a highly questionable. Tell me about your first kiss, Billy. What Hard-Hitting question do you have for David Sampson? Because you really you really did stump him. He turned red. I have not seen him embarrassed very often.

[00:27:44]

I was embarrassed. I was stumped. Cinequest answering a question like that about something intimate. This is there's some part of me that I like to keep, although it's very tiny, given what I do for a living. But, Billy, my question for you, and I'm happy to talk to you, but what I hear from Dan and what I see on the show is you have this abject anger and cynicism toward me that I think is purely unfounded.

[00:28:06]

And you've never been able to articulate it other than through words of what you're a bad person or you did bad things or you're not fair and what you did with the Marlins. I want to know what you think I did during the course of 18 years in baseball that you would have done differently if you had been president of a team because now's your chance to be president. Tell me what I did wrong and let me teach you why it wasn't.

[00:28:30]

No, no. Let me just clear this up. I don't think that you're a bad person. And I've said this before, and I don't know if you remember this. You've always been very kind to me. When I was in college, you granted me an interview. You took me around the park. I've always said that you are from my limited personal interactions with you. You've always been a very decent person. I think that you had, for lack of a better term, kind of a shitty job.

[00:28:53]

Right. So like you were always kind of the guy that had to take the bullets for Jeffrey. And you were the guy that when things went wrong, the city you were the guy that was out front. And you like to and we saw it at Dan's birthday party. You liked playing the role. You liked playing it up. You like kind of instigating things with fans. You like the one point two billion dollars bleep. You like you like that.

[00:29:14]

You like kind of playing the villain. Right. My thing is, I think that there is criticism towards you because of the way that you behave publicly in the way that you would kind of instigate things. And now people haven't really forgiven you for it. And I kind of can see why they haven't.

[00:29:31]

That's the blowback. That's the blowback. David, on you had a very assassin streak about this is nothing personal. This is business. And I don't particularly care about public relations or I behave in a fashion that seems to suggest to people that I don't care about public relations. So I'm not sure what your question is, right, because the answer is I had a job to do and I did it and the role I played, whether that is me in real life, in the privacy of my apartment or whether it's not that is not what the issue is.

[00:30:05]

When you are given a job to do, you do it whatever it takes to get it done. And I survey the situation in Miami. Remember when I came to Miami, I was a foreigner. To me, Miami was a spring break destination. That's it. When when Jeffrey once said he would buy the Marlins, that was only because it was either by the Marlins or be out of baseball. Those were the choices because no one in Miami wants by the Marlins.

[00:30:29]

Not one person in Miami wanted to buy the team. So Jeffrey was told, listen, you can do it. You got to give John Henry his money back because he's out of here. But you can come to Miami. So we came to Miami and didn't know a thing. We had a list of community leaders to talk to and get to know. And we knew that we had to do something that in order to get it done, someone was going to have to get dirty.

[00:30:52]

Jeffrey wasn't going to get dirty. It was going to be me. And that was my job coming in. It was not even a question because I had already started to get dirty in Montreal. So I was ready for that. And it took years and years and years way longer than I wanted it to. And then you got impacted because of the trade we made in twenty twelve. If you were in my shoes, Billy, there is not one chance you would have done one thing differently when you saw the results in the new ballpark, when you saw what was going on with the team financially.

[00:31:24]

There's not one thing you would have done differently, you can criticize it as a fan and I'm sorry for that, but I'm not a fan. That's not my job. My job is to do what has to be done to save the company. It's like asking executives to take pay cuts during covid. I totally agree with you.

[00:31:42]

I don't think this is a thing that I don't want to argue with you about because I don't think that we see things differently. What I think is you did do your job right. This was a business to you, but to a lot of people, this means more to them than that. Right. And like I understand it, working in the media that sports is really just a business. Right. So, like, I've lost some of that emotional attachment to teams and sports in general.

[00:32:03]

Right. But there's lots of people with sports means more than that. So, like, when they see you going to San Antonio and parading around with a cowboy hat just to get a team or to get a city to build you a stadium, and you have the people that don't care about the Marlins. Right. I'm happy that the Marlins stadium was built. The Marlins Park was built because it kept baseball in Miami. Had that stadium not been built, had you not done your job and gotten that stadium built, the team wouldn't exist anymore in Miami.

[00:32:27]

The team would have moved like I don't think that that's up for debate, but there's lots of people in the city that don't care about the Marlins. And no matter how many times you explain to them about how the tax money could have gone to other things that it was used for, that they're going to be upset with you. Right. And there's going to be people they have Marland tattoos that have this emotional attachment to the team that you just don't, because for you, it's just a business.

[00:32:48]

And my point is, while you can say it's not personal to them, you can't decide what's personal for a person. Right. So, like, that's where I think the disconnect is that there's always going to be people that take things that you do personally, whether you mean it that way or not. That is not a personal thing with with me and you. That is a disconnect, though.

[00:33:06]

That is the disconnect. The difference between David Sampson is in the emotions business and he concentrates on the business part of the phrase emotions business, while fans are concentrating on the emotions, part of the phrase emotions business.

[00:33:20]

It's not a disconnect, though, Dan, because I've always been acutely aware of that fact. But there's nothing I can do about that. I need people to have an emotional attachment, because what I want to fight and what exists a lot in this in Miami is apathy. And I never wanted to be like the Panthers where people just don't care about the Panthers. If you're going to have an opinion, you can hate me, you can love me.

[00:33:43]

But please don't not care about me. And by me, I mean the Marlins. And if part of loving the Marlins makes it a zero sum game that you have to hate the big bad president of the team, no problem at all. I'm totally fine with that. So having people take things that I do personally, it never even entered my mind. All of the things that people say, all of the hatred, all of the anger that was always directed toward me, it never meant a thing to me.

[00:34:12]

That doesn't sound very human, I believe you, because I do think that you understood the job and you could be made of wires, but that has to be the attitude that you would take in that job.

[00:34:23]

Right. Especially when you have to be trading people that are beloved to cities. And fan is like, that's the way to do the job. But what I'm saying is that's where the disconnect is, I guess, between fans and the presidents of teams or management, where you view it as a job, where other people view it as different things like you see the people that go to Dolphins games, right. When's the last time the dolphins were realistically relevant and good?

[00:34:46]

Right. They haven't been since Katrina and even in Marino. Eighty four, they went to the Super Bowl. Right. But they still go out there. They still spend all their money. They still have almost like this religion aspect to the dolphins where they go every Sunday and they spend their money and they have their clothes and they have all that stuff where you and people in your position don't have that.

[00:35:04]

But that's why people take things personally, just why more people go to Marlins games each year than Dolphins games. That's a fact. So, I mean, that's just it's a different sport. I never liked the Dolphins versus Marlins comparison. Everyone loves the Dolphins. It just never made sense to me. If I had eight games to sell, I promise you that I would have done a much better job. In your mind.

[00:35:24]

No, but I'm not saying that. I'm saying the dolphins are a perfect example of how it doesn't matter whether you win or lose. There's going to be people there that worship the dolphins regardless. Right. Like that's what I'm saying as a Dolphins thing. Not that the dolphins draw more than the Marlins. I'm saying that the Dolphins, whether they're bad or not, they're going to have their season ticket holders. They're going to have the people, the Dolphins, license plates.

[00:35:44]

And that's not true. That's actually not true. If you look at the dolphins and you look at their revenue, what year after year with all the losing and you look at the who makes up the games and the season ticket holders and how many season ticket holders go to how many games versus sell them on the secondary market versus give them to fans of the opposing team? I don't think that you will find that all of these loyal Dolphin fans exist the way you think they do.

[00:36:07]

I think they're very despondent. The fact that the dolphins have been horrible since I moved here, I'm not making a Marlins versus Dolphins point.

[00:36:14]

I'm not seeing one team is supported over the other. I'm saying that you have people that are fans of teams that support the teams regardless. We've reached a stalemate, Chris, do you have any more hard hitting questions? We've reached the end of the road, a dead end between the swinging, the fisticuffs between Billy and Samson. What Hard-Hitting question, Chris, do you have for David Samson before we get out of here? Yeah, I got this.

[00:36:44]

David, what's your favorite love scene in movie history? Chris, you're the best. My favorite scene of any romantic movie is the following. When Meryl in Bridges of Madison County, when Meryl Streep is grabbing the door handle, deciding whether to leave her husband and go to Clint Eastwood in the rain, whose car is in front, she grabs the handle. She grabs it so tightly and then she lets go and does not give her life to Clint Eastwood only in her death.

[00:37:17]

That, to me, was the most powerful scene of any movie I've ever seen in the romantic side.

[00:37:21]

Are you reviewing anything for us today, or are you too worn out from the fisticuffs with Chris Cody and Billy Joe?

[00:37:28]

You guys are like Bryant Gumbel. This has been the most difficult local hour I think ever. I was I was told by Dan to prepare to get slaughtered and thrashed about how was that Gumbel interview when Gumbel came in there to interview you and kept taking his glasses off during the interview.

[00:37:45]

How was that? Gumbel interrogation on HBO Real Sports.

[00:37:48]

It's too bad that this isn't only audio because I'm going to show you guys what he does. So Bryant Gumbel has his glasses. He puts them on the end of his nose, like I'm doing with my reading glasses. He's got all these papers in front of him and on the papers. It's nothing. It's all for a fact. Like he's nothing. It's like he's like a joke to me in terms of what he does for a media standpoint, and he makes it so I'm uncomfortable.

[00:38:10]

The camera, he had a camera literally four inches from my face. And so when you look at back at the tape of he was trying to say that I was dishonest and he was calling me names and he was trying to fluster me. I never got flustered because I don't care about Bryant Gumbel and what he has to say. He was trying to get me to admit that I cheated the taxpayers and that I lied and that I'm the worst human being of all time.

[00:38:34]

And I just let them talk and let them talk. And he didn't do anything. The only fight we actually had is he asked for the air conditioning to be turned off mean. That's one thing I said. And I said no.

[00:38:47]

Oh, did he want to see you sweat a hundred percent? He wanted to see me sweat. And I said, absolutely not. I said, hey, you're not going to make me sweat, but you're certainly not going to control my air conditioning. And there was a standoff and I prevailed. Wait a minute.

[00:39:05]

Mike Bryant's mouth is hanging open. Mike Ryan doesn't want to admit that that was a good revelation.

[00:39:11]

Oh, my God. Incredible question. Favorite love scene in the movie. You guys burned him.

[00:39:18]

David, I am wondering if you felt like you ever left an interview and you're like, wow, that person actually got the better of me. Like, I lost that interview because I feel like you win most interviews you step into.

[00:39:29]

It's I don't know how to say this with humility, but, no, I never let I never lose interview because I never lose my cool and I'm never emotional and I never say something I don't want to say. Every headline I've made with you, Dan, I've made knowingly every single one of them.

[00:39:46]

Wow. The truth.

[00:39:48]

Is this what you wanted do? I mean, I don't understand why you would want. I like talking to David. I want to talk to David about Survivor. I don't want to fight with David. I don't know why people would go into interviews just to have fights like why would you lose an interview? Why would that ever happen? Why would that be what?

[00:40:03]

And Dan's been really quite great about that. He brings people on all the time to get them to fight, whether it's Billy Corben or I know trying to see. I think he just does it for sport where he tries to see if anyone can get the best of me. Really. And Billy. Billy, really.

[00:40:19]

They tried to turn me on to the nicest personally. Oh, Billy. Yes, that's right. Please make all the arguments against being an instigator. Please let me hear you make all the arguments about how bad instigating is, how bad causing fights between people is when it's your fundamental existence.

[00:40:36]

False, false. Listen, when you're interviewing someone and you're being a journalist, you have to be unbiased and you just go in with the questions and you ask the questions. You don't go in with an agenda. You don't go into fight. You don't go in there for some gotcha journalism moment. That's not how interviews go. I mean, David, no, we're pros. All right.

[00:40:52]

Next week, we're turning off the air conditioner. I think that's any of my Marlen's right because I love the stupid love bantling. I actually had some good next week.

[00:41:00]

Next week, Chris, fisticuffs between Sampson and Chris Cody. Give me the movie review quickly, but we got to get out of here.

[00:41:06]

We're out of time. I'm not reviewing a movie today then. OK, good. Because you've been beaten up so much by Chris Cody and you. And next week, Chris Cody unleashes his torrent of rage upon David Samson. You embarrassed him with your romance question and next week you up the ante. David, thank you for being on with us. We appreciate the insight. See you later.