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Any guesses on where I'm going to start? Was that a conversation? Pagones, did you just clear your throat right? Like the opening? Good morning, Alvo. But after good morning, the first thing you do is clear your throat. Mike, what happened? He just. I am staying away from you guys, you guys should stay away from me, Dr. Burke's is out here saying that if you celebrated with Thanksgiving outside of anybody in your immediate circle, just assume that you have it.

So I'm going to assume we all have it and we should really stretch out the limits of six feet in there. And we should definitely not be clearing our throat into microphones across from each other.

That's just my general unhealthiness. I celebrated Thanksgiving with my family and only my family. That's it. My immediate direct family well be celebrated.

But I called you on Friday and you said that your parents were in town and you were at dinner.

Oh, yeah. Forgot it like it was. So, I mean, I guess your parents are your immediate family, but it's not when you say immediate family. I thought you were saying the people I've been in quarantine with all this time. Once you add like people were worried, the scientists and the doctors were worried about Thanksgiving. There was a lot of travel. We as a country are behaving just in a way that it's breathtaking, like literally breathtaking, given that some people are having trouble with their breathing.

You see that sports continue on and it's a disaster everywhere. Like if you think that the structural integrity of your sport isn't damaged by the fact that the Saints get to play the Broncos in that condition. But the Dolphins lost to the Broncos because they got the Broncos in a different condition when they had quarterbacks. And then you're looking around all of college football and you don't know who's going to if they're going to be for healthy teams at the end of Tuesday Night Football this week.

Dana, are we sure we're getting that? Are we sure they're not going? Are we sure they're not going to cancel that? We got a game with a team that had no quarterbacks yesterday. We're getting Tuesday Night Football.

But this is what I'm telling you about structural integrity of the game. Don't you think that Chris Coatis Dolphins would have like that Denver team, that embarrassing Denver team a week ago?

Yeah, I mean, of course, they would have, you know, luck of the schedule, luck of the draw. Look at the covid unluck of the covid unlocks two guys. It's not luck of the coach.

It all worked out. They got the Jets.

It was for the Saints. Luck of the cove. It well, you say lucky the covid. I don't even know what the strength coach of the Cowboys died from. But can you imagine trying to play after that? Can you imagine in these times where everything is messed up and the strength and conditioning coach is just collapsing and you're going home for the day because you just saw the guy you work with die? Like, how the hell are you supposed to play after that?

I didn't think it was going to be this bad. I thought that they had resources. I thought you might have some isolated incidences. But like right now, the NFL is reflecting and college football is reflecting what's going on in America right now as we continue to spike. I didn't think we'd have a game where a wide receiver on the practice squad in which it's been reported like there were some people within the organization, I had no idea who this person was, is all of a sudden playing an NFL game at the most important position.

I didn't think we'd get there.

Well, how about this beyond that? OK, because I have said to you before that we have never in our lifetimes, none of us, nobody listening to this. Have ever seen sports? Stripped down to its bare naked greed, the way you're presently witnessing. What is it, the mahogany, the Mohegan Sun is where we're playing college basketball, and it would appear if you watch what happened with Gonzaga, that we're just all just making this up as we go along.

Dan Wolken wrote about this for Yahoo! Sports, the Zags.

We are in a position where the rules in sports can't be followed. That your are you are they shutting down all of the NFL today and tomorrow in terms of facilities? Are they shutting down all of them in the NFL?

I think the teams that have games today and tomorrow, their facilities are open, although I don't know how Baltimore could open their facility every day.

There's a new one. And I'm worried about Mark Andrews, who has who has a preexisting condition, Willie Snead. It's weird because you see this Adam Schefter report that says no new tests and then two, sardars and testing positive. And the way that this Outbrain outbreak works is that there's an incubation period. So you really don't know how bad this is going to get.

But it seems as though the NFL is hell bent on playing this game on Tuesday, hellbent on getting their money before we go down the path of talking more about covid and our holidays. I do want to ask you guys this question, because we've been obsessed around here about the evolution of the tight end. Once upon a time, Kellen Winslow senior was unbelievably athletic and large for the position. My guess is, even though he was large for the position at the time, my guess is that most tight ends today are 40, 50 pounds heavier than he was.

I would agree he at the time was unlike anything we had ever seen, though, at that.

And so you go on to Shannon Sharpe and, you know, you go on to Tony Gonzalez and Antonio Gates and the guy keeps getting bigger and bigger. The tight end position gets more and more unguardable until you arrive at GRONG. And yet when I'm looking at these giant guys, the thing that I don't understand you guys, because Kelsey is better than Gronk at this point is I don't understand how Mark Andrews specifically does that. And I think I'm mustache biased because none of these other guys have just a mustache.

But and it might be honest to God, I might be underestimating his athleticism because he's white, but I think it's the mustache. I don't think it's that he's white, but it might be that he's white with that mustache. I can't separate these things, but I don't understand how Mark Andrews specifically in an offense with limited playmakers outside of quarterback, I don't understand how Mark Andrews is always open.

Is it anyways or is it just that he's larger than everybody else?

I think he got to pick your poison, right? Like, you get to leave someone open. It's got to be it's probably more injuries.

Their skill guys aren't that good. It's not like you're scared of anybody other than Lamar Jackson, maybe Brown.

But Mina said on her podcast that if NFL defenses are doing anything different against the Ravens this year as opposed to last year because Lamar Jackson struggles, this here are a little difficult to pinpoint. Is there concentrating a little bit more on taking the middle of the field away where Lamar Jackson is his most accurate, and that is Mark Andrews, his favorite target. Also, I haven't seen Mark Andrews with a mustache, and he's universally bearded in all his pro photos here.

Is that all you're seeing in the helmet?

That's what it is. All I've seen is the mustache. Maybe his chin strap is extra large because either way, Giuseppe's over to Mark Andrews now.

Carla Winslow was 65, 250 pounds again. He was unlike anything we had ever seen at that position. So Travis, Kelsey's two sixty.

Any slight at the position you've got, Kellen Winslow senior is 250 pounds are to shooting our seniors senior senior to five junior slider.

Yeah, wait a minute. Yeah, they're actually getting smaller. It was a weird take. I remember like maybe it's their pad size, but Mark Bavaro looks like forty pounds heavier than the likes of Travis Kelly out here guys, because they're my eyes lying to me when I think of the tight end of that age, like Antonio Gates looks like somebody who's 250 pounds.

But Tony Gonzalez and Shannon Sharpe look like they're about fifteen or twenty sculpted pounds less than that. And what I remember of Kellen Winslow and I must have this wrong, even though Listing's with weights are off and off, they're not going to be twenty, thirty pounds off. I do not remember Kellen Winslow senior being 250 pounds the way like Ben Coats would be.

So here's the thing. I don't know if you know this is Kellen Winslow. Seniors wait now or if it's Kayla Winslow. Seniors wait. What he actually I think it's one Quain.

You know, it's when he played because they were they were dependent more on blocking back than the positions change. You actually need to be a little bit more svelte now to get downfield. I keep Buyers' his route. Tre was pretty limited. They they'd like him on the line, blocking it to sixty.

Well, Keith Buyers' doesn't even count as a tight end. They had to change him to a. And later in his career, when you think of Keith Jackson, for example, right, in those Miami offenses, how big do you think of him as? Because, Mike, you can't tell me these guys are getting smaller. You can't.

I think they're getting more more svelte. Yeah, they're getting more put together. They're they're speedier. They're wide receivers. They're often.

But how much more put together can you be than Shannon Sharpe and Tony Gonzalez? The way that I would do it is tight ends used to be just converted linemen who had the occasional ability to catch. Now they're converted wide receivers. They're converted quarterbacks. Right. It's a totally different skill. Thomas? Yeah. As the game has evolved before, it was like Eric Winston would be a tight end or a left tackle.

But just Seki for the Dolphins, he's six to 50.

I'm kind of with where I just Kellen Winslow senior did not look like Jessica, who's running around out there. Looks bigger than everyone.

He's playing well, but that's actually impressive because he's taller than Kevin Winslow senior. And to be at a similar weight, that's harder to do. So they've gotten slimmer.

He's not that much taller, though. Listening to all the names you guys have been saying, I think tight end might be the second best looking position behind quarterback. If you think about all the good tight ends in the league, some good looking people, I can't name a better looking position other than quarterback than tight end.

It's pretty good. Kelsey is a good looking guy. You're right. Greg Olsen from a few years ago. Right.

Golson's a very I think there might be some cultural bias going on here, even though Tony Gonzales, even the Winslow's, even the Winslow is a good looking.

I know your little son was a little shady, but I'm a little shady.

Leave the dad alone. You think the son was a little shady?

I'm just trying to be politically correct. I don't know. Probably the shadiest guy to ever play in the NFL. I mean, he's up there. He's he's up there, really is, to say the least, a little shady.

I think that what is happening there is you are choosing the whitest of positions. I think that's what's happened.

Walter, Darrin Waller, goodlooking Antonio Gates, good looking Bo, but getting a little slimmer because Greg Olsen is the same way as Marcus Pollard, despite being two to three inches taller than Marcus Pollard.

Tony Gonzalez. I know. I know. That is where goodlooking starts and ends. I thought that's where you were beginning on the tight end. And I've said that the exceptions that you could lob on me in terms of good looking tight ends who aren't white were the Hispanic region of Tony Gonzalez and the black consulate of Shannon Sharpe. Yes, you can have, but you've got more dominant white guys. Kelsi Gronk, this mustachioed, bearded Andrews. Oh, he's really good looking.

Andrews could be Hamrin Cameron brate OJ Howard is a very good looking young man.

Seki good looking. Yeah. I think that you're right.

But again give me all the other just a good looking position and we're not talking about. Everyone likes shopping online, but searching for coupon codes is kind of a bummer. So make saving online a breeze with Capital One shopping Capital One shopping is a free tool that instantly searches for available coupon codes and automatically applies them. A check out. Just download Capital One shopping to your computer and let it do the work for you so easy and you don't even need a Capital One card to use it.

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No one calls. No one calls George Kidlet Kitty cat, although no one is sure his friends do.

Yeah, I don't think that's a thing.

Well, here it is. Put it that is not a nickname. That is not a real nickname. Put it on the pole gear at Le Batard show. Does anyone call George Kittles kitty cat?

The only thing that was redeeming about the Jets yesterday and who got it is flabbergasting to watch how terrible and constipated your team is. Lord knows we've been watching that Jets Dolphins game for two damn decades. Yep, two damn decades, 20 to 30. Somebody got three. The others got 20. Hooray. Jumbo Elliot just caught a ball in the end zone to win on Monday night.

But Sam Darnel, this fact right here I'm about to give you guys I thought was the only thing from Jets, Dolphins that made an appearance that was worth anything. And it's that Sam Donald's grandfather. Do you know what his name is, you got no. Stan Samed, Arnold's grandfather. Who was one of the original Marlborough men? OK, so Sam Donald's grandfather was in the commercial, a guy who was a symbol for masculinity in America because it became cool and not cancerous to smoke cigarettes, and then it became cancerous and less cool.

But at the time, the original Marlboro men were some of the coolest men anywhere. And Sam Donald's grandfather, who had that job, his name. Was. Dick Hammer, those are synonyms. Well.

Projects for Jets fans, Dick Hammer is the name, and he is you can't live up to your grandfather even if your mahomes you can be Mahomes and not live up to your grandfather, who one of the original Marlboro Man named Dick Hammer, a guy that guy Mahomes.

He's the greatest we've ever seen. Yes. I'm curious because it kind of has like a weird body. How is games going age? Like, is he going to end up taking care of himself because he's doing this with, like, a weird body that's oddly shaped in parts. Right. Do you guys hips right?

It's his hips. That's weird. It's just like it's like he's not to his hips region.

He's not cut. It's a one criticism you could have of Patrick Mahomes. And he doesn't actually need to take, by the way, as a quarterback runner, his vision. He's so smart. He's such a smart runner. It's the most underrated part of his game because he's got the greatest arm we've ever seen. He's such a smart player.

Oh, he's brilliant. I don't know what you're supposed to do when he looks off the safety and throws it across the field with perfect touch to Tyreek Hill.

Like, what do you what can you do other than lose? Tyreek Hill had 200 receiving yards in the first quarter to God and I don't play man to man.

I mean that's it. They tried to, I mean the Bucs tried to, they did not waver from their game and tried to play and he was on pace.

To have a thousand yard game here, he was on the. It was ridiculous. What are you supposed to do? And then when they don't throw it to him, they're thrown into Kelsey. And that guy's a total mute.

Yeah. And they have Watkins' just just for shits and giggles. Basically, when they have Watkins' out there, Tyreek Hill doesn't have to do any of those decoy nonsense because that's really like the only way that you can stop Tyreek Hill is if he decides to be used as a.

Is there a third guy. Give me there are two. You talk about weird bodies and bodies we inspect in the NFL. Can you guys give me not on defense because there are some guys on defense who look like this. But when I tell you the body type that you need to tackle is Tyreek Hill or and the only other body I've seen exactly like this one in a larger model is AJ Brown, where you're like, good God. Like that's just that all that is your all.

You can only hit bone on that dude like you. You cannot tackle something, anything that's soft on that dude, no matter how small he is. And I'm trying to think if there's a third body you guys can think of, like, I don't think of Kamara that way. Cassel like they're built. I'm not talking about muscularity. I'm just talking about something that feels like it's made out of the bowling balls material.

Well, Derrick Henry doing well, but that's the entire strength and conditioning program at Tennessee.

How the Titans can you tell me, like, if you're playing against them, like, you know, Derrick Henry's coming yesterday, the Colts are supposed to have a good defense. What the hell are you supposed to do when that start running downhill on you?

You also start running downhill away from it. This upcoming Sunday is going to be fun with Chubb and Derrick Henry in this game. I needed the Jacksonville Jaguars to win a game yesterday. Your Browns pulled that one out. Oh, wait a minute. I really needed a way, McLennon.

OK, you needed him as a jet. I want to talk about this about that game, though, because Mina Kimes is gambling. Advice was not good yesterday.

I waited. She won a million dollars for someone else and lost us about six hundred.

She won a million dollars. Do you know this for somebody for David Chang, the celebrity chef on Who Wants to Be a Millionaire, she helped him win a million dollars.

Really? No, it was incredibly dude, it was incredibly dramatic. I was watching. David Chang is one of a handful of celebrities actually get to the million dollar question, but only Norm MacDonald previously has attempted at answering the million dollar question. All the other ones quit while they're ahead. And David Chang went for it. He had one lifeline left. That lifeline was Menagh for an impossibly difficult question.

First first president to have electricity in the White House, was the question correct?

And she guess she wasn't guessing.

She said this is probable. Is probable.

I don't remember. What was it? Hoover you went Harrison, who I think Jimmy Kimmel and both David Zhang weren't exactly sure was even a president. And she went Harrison.

She went Harrison. And she stated she's not 100 percent sure on this.

And the million dollar question, he actually said she was going to say Harrison and Cleveland, even though Cleveland wasn't one of the options. What she did was a timeline thing, the timeline of electricity. And she also knows all the presidents in order. So she's actually man, Yale actually turned out to be a pretty good school.

You're right. She couldn't get into Harvard. But unless you know that for certain, you have to ask your phone a friend, if you know for certain.

If he did not say for sure, she did. She did not. But she she pushed him in that direction and he trusted her because she's mean at times.

Regardless, unless the guy is giving a maybe in that spot, it wasn't a maybe she was leaning like a pretty strong answer.

We're at the million dollar question. It's got to be a guarantee. OK, but she couldn't guarantee it because she wasn't 100 percent sure. And also, though, this is this is funny about Mina's personality, right? Because Mike and I were teasing her about how bad she was at gambling yesterday. And she actually it feels like you have to be more gentle than you would be with some of your other friends roughhousing with how awful they were at gambling on it.

It's all fun and games. But she's winning now, huh? Yeah. You can't rip her. She doesn't take kindly to the rib.

Well, just in that instance, because she didn't ask for any of that.

She really didn't ask for me and Mike asking her for thirty four thirty that I would sixteen during bowl season. Huh. She well she was only going three yesterday but does seem to be leveling out for her.

The ultimate. The losses were brutal though. One of them was the Chiefs game. She had chiefs three and a half. Thanks, Andy Reid. Loss is a loss. That that is correct.

And the other one is that she had Cleveland over Jacksonville and disastrous officiating put it on the podium, rooting for her to lose Gamora, put it on the poles. You're not getting the picks. You're right at Lebed Today show has still got win, has struggled, ever given more useless life advice than a loss is. A loss at Libertador Show, so she had the Jacksonville Cleveland game and she hadn't won the the entire game and at the end, of course, Jacksonville comes storming back.

But one of the things that happened in this game, and I don't know if you guys were watching this, it's something I've never seen before watching football. And I was on the wrong side yesterday. And this was an apocalyptic, laughable day for me. But I was on the wrong side of every single damn fourth and short in the sport yesterday.

Like everyone, the Chargers at the end trying to get in the end zone to cover. There were like seven of them and I was over seven wrong on every single one. But the thing I've never seen before is they brought out the chains, Cleveland Browns, fourth and inches.

There was a first down. So I thought I did not understand how they were looking at the change that looked different on television from how I was looking at the change, I thought it was a first down by the numbers, by the little doorstop at the end of the first down marker. They stretched it as far as they could and I thought it was a first down. And then they go the other way and immediately score and cover and everything else.

And I'm like I just saw with my own eyes, they stretched out the chain and it was a first one. How was that not a first down? And they took the ball away from them. And then moments to God, they should have just immediately put on the scoreboard, never mind about your minus seven also bleep yourself.

I was lost that. How is that possible?

Have you guys ever seen that before? There is a chance that maybe the camera was playing tricks on us because I'm not 100 percent sure it was a down the line view. But from the camera still that was shown on TV, it looked like a first down.

I mean, you tweeted eyeball. That's the thing. Those two guys also Bougere held up his hands like it was like a yard away, which was this is also the thing.

This is exactly how I experienced this. OK, I want you to like this is going to be something that you can laugh at, OK? Just everything's going wrong for me. Everything. I got a Viking getting hit in the helmet at the end of the game by a punt, like just. Oh, I saw that. It's unfortunate.

It's just nonstop. I'm laughing at my television because nothing is going right. And then in the middle of that, Stu got in the middle of that. I want you guys to imagine you've got Cleveland minus seven and the Browns are up eight in the game. Have the ball. They've got 13 inches. They don't get it now. They've got fourth in inches. And if they're going to finish the game, if they just get a first down and Jacksonville is not going to have time and then Cleveland is also going to score when they keep the ball good.

You're talking about the baker, miss, throwing that set up that fourth down to God. Such a behind your head somehow. And, you know, if Mike Glennon gets the ball back, he's going, well, this is the my client needs to be going. You said it before the game. He's like YOLO into this game. I got nothing to lose.

I got to be honest with you, because I was just taking my menas advice. I did not know that he was a JAG until he was throwing into my hands.

Well, I don't want to question Mina, but when she came in with the Browns, I was like, man, the Browns are missing their entire secondary and haven't practice all week because of covid. Are we sure we want to do this because Mike Glennon says he's coming for them.

OK, and Mike Glennon just stormed down the field. But again, I want to take you guys through this because it's a mind bleep. It really is. So I'm watching and everything's losing and I'm like fourth and inches. And at this point, I'm also in the desperate sort of phase where, you know, things are going to go wrong for you because nothing has gone right. Like, you know, good and well, of course, is fourth and inches.

What kind of apocalyptic thing is going to happen to me here?

I started knowing it wasn't going to go away when the Falcons decided for once in their lives to extend a lead.

Yes, that's right. That was the big play of the day yesterday. Raiders are the Raiders for real? Are the Raiders for real?

Not tonight. And they're not anymore. Maybe check in with you guys next week and we'll see. And so they're measuring it. And I'm basically pooping myself the entire time. They're stretching the chain. There's all sorts of drama. Mike's a Browns fan, so I imagine he's experiencing this on two fronts. It's not just the betting, but it's also his team is here.

And I'm so used to us losing these games. So I thought this was yet another invention of a way to lose, of course.

And so it takes a minute, though. You saw the drama right up the chain. They pull it a little bit. I'm looking at the slack on the chain. I'm counting chain links. I thought we were short.

And then I'm like, they clearly have to stretch this more, but it never stretch. I'm like, sweet. First down, I do the first down motion in my in my living room and Bogut puts up a yawn. That's the thing. Then the referee comes out and holds over his head what is clearly his guard and I'm like I'm taking crazy pills like I just saw that it's a first down. This is the universe conspiring against me. What is this referee.

What is he out there saying?

The thing he's holding like he caught a giant fish and was holding it over his head to you decide like that's more than a yard I saw that was clearly a first down, if anything, at least for optics, you got to go chainlink. It's not even because they got they got all the chain links for television optics.

You at least have to, like, hold up your index finger and thumb and just go with it all.

You got to give him a little something. I miss the way you're describing this. I miss a little change dress. I really do. It's been a while since you had the stress of waiting to see how long that Jane is going to.

But everything I know about the chain has now been thrown out the window because the Browns got it from the review that I saw. But then there goes my Glenanne, just attacking a defense down to one corner. Not just that, I again want everyone in this audience to allow to marinate the fact. That referee came out after what I thought was going to be a first down signal from him because it was obvious that it should have been a first down signal, according to that camera, first that signal with authority.

Well, I just thought it was going to be a damn first down. First down for the guys. I have eyes. I saw him looking at his arms and I'm like, wait a minute, why in God's name is he holding up as if he were over his head, a championship belt? Why is he telling me, like, he can just go first down in the other direction? That would hurt enough. But no, he says it wasn't even close.

He says that everything I just saw and everything I believe in the world is a lie.

What a waste of time to bring out these chains. I don't understand where he's telling the entire audience it was not only not close, this is how far it was. And he's holding hostages held up to middle fingers.

That's the same way he was. Yeah, that is how I experienced all of that.

And then Glenanne like getting hit right in the Dick Decameron.

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Offerings 11. Thirty 20. So, Chris, when Brian Floras pulled, too, it was because at first he thought maybe Tooele was hurt because you saw an angle and replay, he wasn't hurt. But then somehow in practice, he legitimately gets hurt, which is always cause for concern when you're generally worried about a prospect's health entering the NFL, a thumb injury. It looks like Fitzpatrick is the guy for the next couple of weeks here. But Ryan Fitzpatrick, I mean, it's nice to have a Ryan Fitzpatrick as your backup quarterback, and it's even nicer to play the Jets.

The Dolphins keep marching on in a good week to actually get a win because it gain ground on a lot of the teams are chasing.

I mean, yeah, I think the story here is the defense, like the two of Fitzpatrick stuff, like when when two is healthy, he'll be the guy. Like, we don't need to go down that path right now.

I just think the real story is this defense. The dolphins are the fourth best point differential in the entire league. I feel like that Fitzpatrick to a conversation is kind of overshadowing and Howard leading the league in interceptions, corners their corners.

That's good. It's not not very good. It's the best in the league. Like the reason they're good at defense is because their corners are both at the very top of the league. It's amazing to have one of those guys who got they've got two of them like you're throughout throughout that sport. If you get one of those guys, you're willing to take your chances. And the reason they're good at defense is those two guys.

They're making a play every week, which is massive. When you have questions around the quarterback position exhibiting Howard, he's in the conversation. He's not going to win it. But for me, I think he's like third behind Donald and Garrett, who's probably played himself out of the war. Now with the covid issues, defensive player of the year, Howard's been ostracods.

I think it can be called already. I think this is the best tandem cornerbacks not not just in the league that the Dolphins have ever had in the history of the franchise.

I believe what these two are better than better than certain. And Madison. Whoa, whoa, whoa. You told Hall Famers now. I mean, they're not Hall of Fame. Oh, they should be. I wasn't talking Hall of Famers. Dan's right on this hall of ring honor. Maybe a ring of honor. All right. It's put jackets. It's crazy that you can make the argument.

I could almost argue watching all these games that Byron Jones has been just as good as Xavier Howard. They just don't throw it over there. It's the Champ Bailey situation. Howard has all these interceptions because they just don't throw it at Byron Jones.

Mike, please help me out here because I'd like to try and get that off the ground again. You were dramatically overreacting to me, making a historic perspective. Hot take point. Let's try it again as a group and let's see where this goes.

I am willing to make the argument that these two cornerbacks that the Miami Dolphins have are the best two cornerbacks, not only in the league, but in the history of the Miami.

Oh. I mean, you said you do, because it, again, is about to fall on me.

I've never seen it before last for me. Do you even know who I'm talking about, Chris, like Madison incertain Predate, you know that no longer do you remember Tarbuck.

Oh, they hated him. You can make. Was it who were the two most hated quarterbacks? Is it Jamie Brown and Terrell Buckley in Dolphins history?

Because Stuart's like that every fan base, Ujamaa Fletcher Flavanol, because they drafted him early, every fan base over the course. This has to be true what I'm about to say. Right. Every organization in football knows what it's like to have its fan base hate one of its cornerbacks specifically because the guy is always getting penalties or you're seeing him beat a lot because it's a very difficult position to play. But I thought in the history of the Miami Dolphins, the two guys, more than any others, you guys see it.

Tell me, Roy, this would be a wheelhouse for you, too. I would suspect Jerry Brown and Terrell Buckley, were there any others? Is there a third one that, like Miami Dolphins fans, just hated?

Man, I'm of a certain age because Fletcher was a guy that they took instead of was. Drew Brees is a good one. I think Fletcher is a good one because he was a first round pick. It was Wanstead took him, right? Yeah. I think it was just like we could have had blank. But instead we took this guy that didn't make any contributions and would always get beat. I feel like everybody hated Jamaal Taylor.

Am I right on that? A younger generation, I don't think.

Well, I just don't think he rises to the level. See, those teams that we're talking about had expectations that kind of changes how much you can hate your cornerback.

The corner that they hated most was Brent Grimes, his wife.

That's a good one to Jason Allen in the first round. He goes all the way to that is that is a good one.

Yeah. They had these guys the guys that they took anymore was also in this universe, guys that they took. But they ended up passing on other guys, John Avery, because it could have had Moss. There are these guys that didn't work out in the NFL. Doesn't matter what kind of career they had. It's the career that the other guy had.

They had Jamal Fletcher. They could have taken Reggie Wayne that year. Todd, he was available. Drew Brees, as you mentioned, was available. That one hurt those all of the things that we're talking about.

That's interesting, actually, when it comes to jobs, it was available hating the position.

It all is about expectations. And two of the cases, its first round picks. And in the other two cases, it's teams that were expected to be good and then were foiled by a player to a game because of their quarterback play. But you have reasons to be excited about the dolphin, about the dolphin defense, even though that Jets team I mean, that's that's as bad as a football team as you will ever see in professional football.

Yet they like a winless dude. They're not trying to win, Mike. I mean, they're trying to go winless.

I cannot believe this team is that bad. Your skill guys aren't aren't that bad. Herndon, Perriman. And that was the first time they were healthy and they didn't do anything because of the cornerback. So that's the first isn't that the first time the Jets offense has been healthy this season where you have the all the wide receivers are there and Arnold is playing.

Yeah, but the running backs are hurt now. So now it's Frank Gore and Le'Veon Bell is gone. Perin, the rookie, they drafted a Florida got hurt. So he's not playing. But yes, wide receivers, tight ends.

First time it was the first time with a full healthy roster. And they scored the same amount of points as a team that didn't have a quarterback.

What a great platoni student.

Sam Darnel. Like, are you done with that experience? Yeah, and so are they. I think they are. He's not good there. And and he has it been good and he's had ample opportunity. And I'm telling you, my feeling is and I'm not upset the Jets are doing exactly what I've wanted them to do forever. They're not just bad, they're historically bad. And they might end up with Trevor Lawrence.

Let me ask the audience this question and let me ask you guys this question. You know, I'm exasperated very often by how difficult it is to measure in that sport whether someone is going to be good, whether you have a quarterback who can play to measure if a football is a first down or not. All measurements in footballs elude me never more than yesterday. But when you're looking at Sam Darnel, there's two guards. And Tony Romo has said when he comes out that he's the best of the bunch and promises to be one of the best quarterbacks ever.

And Tony Romo just signed for you saw how much money? Seventeen million dollars by consensus. He clearly knows what he's talking about and he knows more football and has enthusiasm for football. That is really charming. And this is no indictment of Tony Romo. But when he says that about Sam Darnell. Right. And it's that wrong where Sam Darnel like that, you're watching Sam, Donald and Mahomes and you don't see that. You can't see that Mahomes is what Mahomes is going to be and the Donald will never be that you.

Exactly. You explain to me how how impossible it must be to measure this position. We laughed at Tennenbaum when he said he would have.

Hakan herbut instead of two or burro, and it seems obvious that he's the Herberts, the best rookie quarterback any of us have seen statistically outside of Marino, he's going to be first incompletions, first in yards on pace, first in touchdowns for a rookie quarterback ever like. It's not too often Burrard do not look like herbut looks.

If Sam Darnel played with Kansas City in that offense, do you think he looks something. Oh no.

He'd have help and he'd be better. But this g there wouldn't be this Godse and I'm agreeing with you. Do you think the Jets would be good if they had Patrick Mahomes. I think any team in the sport would be good if they had Patrick Mahomes. It's listen, I can't I can't explain. And it doesn't mean Mike Tannenbaum knows more than anyone. He might have just got it right this time. OK, and with all due respect to Mike, I have no idea.

Oh, no. But no, this is not an ability, is my point. Sometimes Tannenbaum is going to be right. Sometimes he's not going to be. But I'm asking you specifically about Romo and the idea that he would be that wrong about Sam Darnel.

It's not just Romo. I have grown to respect Mina Kimes, his opinion on this stuff more so than Tony Romo. I'm serious because she really absorbs it. She watches it. She watches all those plays. She told me Sam Darnell was going to be great and he turned out to be a complete disaster. He's just not very good. And so I would just say it's very difficult to determine who's coming out of college, whose games going to be able to translate to the NFL.

We were such a hard position, Billy.

We were talking about this. You were talking a couple of weeks ago. You had mentioned that we were talking about Taysom Hill and Sean Payton and having more information than the rest of us. You pointed out correctly that just because they have more information than the rest of us, it doesn't mean that Bill O'Brien's not going to be dumb at every turn, because it would appear that Deshaun Watson is one of the best quarterbacks in the league and somehow they botched everything around him because it looks like Deshaun Watson would win anywhere in the damn sport except where he is, because he's clearly an obviously great well, he's won there.

Keep in mind, they were up twenty four nothing first half Kansas City.

But this year they've been pretty terrible. And his his moves were universally panned before the season.

The thing about all of this that's interesting. Would we have even seen Justin Herbert if they didn't puncture Tyrod Taylor's long? Probably not. So they look like geniuses, but they weren't going to be playing him it.

Billy, it's true of Tom Brady because Drew Bledsoe had a lung problem and Belichick was reluctant to play Brady and then was forced to. I think it's also true of Tony Romo and Dallas, because I think Bill Parcells was trying to go with Quincy Carter until Quincy Carter got hurt.

That's something I think that was another Bledsoe situation. And it may and may have gone the other way, too. Right after that, Romo was replaced by Dak Prescott, but he was replaced only after Dak Prescott got to play because they hadn't seen it. So all of this is super weird. But when, you know, you guys have made fun of me for a bit about always pointing out the six time executive Napoleons, that Lamar Jackson could not play that position in the sport.

But Tony Romo saying that Sam Darnel was better than Patrick Mahomes and had a chance to be one of the best quarterbacks ever. Isn't that just as an egregious a miss in terms of value and valuation? Like just as bad? It's bad, but at least he didn't say Sam Darnell would be better as a tight end, which he might be, by the way, he might be a better tight end than he has a quarterback. I'm just marveling at Stewart.

What's he like? I feel like three weeks ago or so he was saying, Sam, Donald is like the future and he's just transitioned very smoothly into he's happy that he's a bust. Like, I'm just impressed by that. It's very impressive. You've noticed. Thank you, Billy.

What's happening here? You got a giant smile on your face, and I've been trying to get off all season off the ground. And you guys, for as much lying as to God has done over the years, nobody has been able to help me get off the ground. The idea that we don't believe that this isn't an elaborate coping mechanism from gods pretending like he's okay with this so that we can't bury him every week about having the worst team any of us have ever seen.

Like none of you and I see you smiling at Stuart's is about face from three weeks ago, Billy. So why?

Well, because I texted Seagate's after Samjhauta was like first or second start up. You have a quarterback. And I think he's just been awful ever since. It's got this curse me ever since because he told me I jinxed you.

Did that last year. Yeah.

He lit up Matt Patricia his first game on Monday Night Football. We all thought Sam Donaldson was the real deal then. If your team has been as lousy as my team has been, not in the last decade, not the last two decades, my entire life, OK. Forty five years I've been a jet fan. If they have been that bad, OK, and they have been and you finally have a chance to get the most valuable thing in the sport this year, which is the right.

To draft Trevor Lawrence or Justin Fields, why would you not be happy because you don't because the only way this thing is going to work is if they get one of those guys because you don't do perspective. That's why. Because you don't you always take the short view you've been wanting to sign for that team. You wanted to sign a 50 year old Scottie Pippen for the Miami Heat. You would have put John Elway in the game yesterday because he's a name for the Broncos at 60 years old.

We have him, Joe Flacco.

I mean, I'm interested to see how you start handling these losses as you approach 2016 just fine, Mike. Yeah, yeah, I know. And I didn't want to go on 16. I know, Frank.

Gore doesn't want to go out at 16. I know the Jets don't want to go in 60. What do I care if they go in 16? They're a laughing stock. Riggall wait a minute. Wait a minute, though, guys. I don't care. Hold on, hold on. Hold on. I would succeed. Gets me the quarterback.

This is different because the Jags seem to be coming for you. Right? So you may own 16 may be necessary if you want to get the guy rare. Is it the time that you have one of these surefire prospects like Manning or Luck?

All of us here are old enough to remember how hard the Miami Dolphins were trying to avoid open sixteen the year that Greg Camerino against the Ravens ended Brian Billick entire career. That's when he stopped being good and no one wanted to hire him when he lost. Who was it? The Cleo Lemon. It was the Cleo Lemon, Miami Dolphins, was it not? I mean, that team did not want to go on sixteen. That fan base did not want to go 016 got.

So I understand the perspective you're showing. It just doesn't feel very much like fandom because the Jets spell fandom with the DMB like.

But this is the only way my team, an organization gets back. It's the only way did I agree with you. Agents don't want to be there. Who got. You're totally right. That is the way that you should be looking at it. Like that's it doesn't matter whether you're one in fifteen or twenty sixteen, secure the pick, get the value of the pick. That could change your next ten years. It's just not how the emotion of fandom usually works.

No, not for me especially.

You're right, but oh an eleven is a special place where if you're at home with eleven, why not. I would sixty. Like who cares if they were, you know, if they were still vying for a wildcard spot. You're right. Get Elway out of the stands. Get anyone all right to play quarterback yesterday in that game, but they're not. And now the only thing I have to look forward to is one of those two guys coming out of college, preferably the guy from Clemson.

And the Jets have the inside track on him. I mean, the Jags are pushing him.

No, I hate that the Browns went on sixteen and I have Myles Garrett to show for it. And I still hate that the Browns went.

What in what way do you like it affects your life. Well, wait a minute, Barazan, wait.

Who got the Browns fan of Super Bowl?

I don't understand what's happening here. That's all your life. You are thin. I know. I am with Billy Beristain. I am with Billy and Chris on this. Whoa. This is a quick about face where two guys is basically squaring off what it is to be a fan. He's like, oh, who cares whether I'm embarrassed or not? My team, I'm not. This might be a product of age. That stock has been beaten up by this team so much that he doesn't care.

I feel like I've never been a better fan. I am I am willing to sacrifice and root for my team to lose in order for them to get better.

But you don't care about the shame. So, Chris, tell me one other candidates shame. Chris, Billy, Toni, Roy, tell me the year the Dolphins appeared to be going toward Owens. Sixteen. How did you feel about that? Not great, I was embarrassed, I have to admit to guys like I'm with you, like I kind of get where you're at here, but there's that's bad. And 16 is bad.

Was it the camera you play here? It was like it won the Super Bowl. Yes, I ran around I ran around my house like we won the Super Bowl.

We won that game. Remember who was waiting for you at the end of that year? Like, was there a guy coming out in the draft?

They remember, like Chris Logger's of blowing up a tackle on Blankfort generational quarterback here.

And Matt Ryan was there and they decided Bill Parcells decided to go for Jake Long, who's been on a league for several years.

Tony, your reaction to the Dolphins. Were you also jumping around the house when the Greg Tamary was that in overtime or was it at the end of the game? I think it was overtime, which is a walk on. Brian Billick did some dumb thing on fourth and short and then just again, never worked again after that. In in football, as everyone becomes a retread, I'm sure Matt Patricia is going to end up somewhere here in like two weeks.

I didn't really care.

I was more focused in 2007 watching the Patriots go undefeated. So I didn't really it didn't really bother me.

Roy, I looked into Alex down his arms into the ticket studio.

No, wait a minute.

Have any of you ever seen there was a leap leap in anyone's arms? That would be the height of joy for you. None of us have ever seen you jump into anyone's arms excited. Tony and Chris are laughing right now. Roy, you jumped into his arms. He held you up in the air that you. That may cave, man.

Yeah, well, listen, when you're trying to avoid own sixteen, sometimes a leap is needed. Hold on. Let me paint this picture for me. Is he lifting you from under your armpits like a figure skater, or are you jumping up and he's like catching you and your legs are like you don't even wear your butts in between. It's two arms.

Oh, I jumped up and caught me. Wow.

So you were like a koala bear on his torso. You're like you wrapped your legs around him. It wasn't the it was I did not write my legs around him.

Did he cradle you like a baby? Kind of. Where was he holding you? Because I imagine around the back.

Oh. Oh I know. Seems like a good hugger and. Yeah.

Well I imagine the thing is I'm imagining Donelle like the referee in that Jacksonville, Cleveland game, holding his hands apart above him. And Roy just sort of parallel planking there like a figure skater. That's not how wide you merely you jumped into his arms. You did not wrap around, but he he held you up under your arms. That's right, and I had one arm in the air like this, so, oh, it was Rocky and Apollo and the beach, the emotions.

So you had one where was this? Was this in these Bravia, the sad radio cafeteria? Where was it?

No, it was between the on air studio in the back bullpen and that sad hallway, the sad hallway at home. That has to be a top five dolphin moment over the last 20 years as it was open in that hallway.

Yes. Not the Camerino moment. I just I mean, Roy Bellamy, just being so champagne bottle opening, effervescent that he jumps into the arms of that bear that may bear.

Alex Dano, our show celebrated the hell of it that we had Camerino on. It was the cherry on top of what was Greg Camerino day.

Today we celebrate Greg.

A.J., I see the production hasn't gotten any better around here in all the years since you empty out the camera you filed.

You have a lot of them are songs and can't play that on the podcast. But and there's a we did an interview with him that made the best stuff. We played Douceur no duche with them. We really embrace Greg Camerino. Such a big catch, such a big play. I mean, 64 yards walk off overtime time. It's not the traditional 64 yard catch because the dolphins don't do that. It was a bubble screen. Yeah, of course.

I long for the days of Greg Camerino. I can't believe Roy what would rank as the second most excited any of us have ever seen you. But I think I'm right when I say none of us can imagine Roy joyously jumping in anyone's damn arm every day lunch comes.

Oh, I mean, I think like a nod, like, yeah, I think we went to that that hockey game.

A couple of my cancer scored a goal. I'm pretty sure I saw like a fist bump. You just kind of like rocked his fist.