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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the car rental studios. It's the Dave Ramsey Show where that is dumb. Cash is king and the fate of home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW and the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. You jump in, we'll talk about your life and your money.


Open phones at eight eight two five five two two five.


Anthony O'Neal Ramsey, personality number one bestselling author, is my co-host today here on the air. As we take your questions, we're going to start with Joe in Hartford, Connecticut, this hour.


Hey, Joe, how are you?


Good. So how are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?


So I got a little situation. I've been dating this girl for a long time, and I definitely see marrying her shortly in the future. And her brother in law is kind of been involved with a lot of the finances right now. And I've been pretty good at convincing her not to buy a brand new car and her kind of out of the picture. So he kind of plays like the alpha male role. And they're they have like a close knit family and he tends to take charge quite a bit.


And he's been definitely pushing her to buy like a brand new Hyundai policy or something. And I've been trying to convince her to do otherwise. She's going to have a really good job this time next year. PAYNE Really well. And I've been trying to tell her to pay cash with something that she could afford and and go from there. I'm not really sure what I should do in my position, you know, being the boyfriend and all.


What do you what do you want to do, Joe? I mean, could you said you had a boyfriend or why do you want to get involved? Let me ask you that question, because I think you know the answer. But why do you want to get involved?


Well, one, because I know she'd be in over her head with a brand new car. And two, I really, really care about her. And, you know, like I said, I could definitely see paying her in the future and head over heels for it. I just I don't want to see it make a bad financial mistake. But, you know, I don't want to overstate.


How long you been dating for quite some time, but about a year now.


And I've been friends with her for years. All right.


So it's naturally progressing after a year towards marriage. And you don't really you've got two problems with this. One is that her brother in law has too much influence over her.


And two is she's about to make a stupid decision, right? Yes. Yeah, that's fair. OK, so how can you say those two things?


Nice thing. I don't think you can. I think you can. I think you can.


I mean, nicer than I just said it, but I'm not known for sugarcoating stuff so. But if you know, I think, you know, you're gonna have to help her because you're the single guy, right?


That's what I'm saying. I don't think we can show you just you're just going to jettison the girl. I'm going to tell the baby. That's a stupid move. That's not a wise decision. Don't do it. OK, well, here, I'll try again.


All right. There you go. All right.


So it might sound like this.


You know, it looks like our you know, we're progressing towards making this a very, very serious relationship. And I know this is you talking OK.


And I know from reading and from some of the financial things I've got input on that being in agreement on our finances is the number one cause of divorce and marital problems. And so if we're going to continue to progress, we're going to have to move towards being in agreement on our finances because not doing so sets us up for divorce if we wanted to get married. And so we have to you and I have to deal with this and get on the same page, because that's a deal breaker.


It's a deal breaker before marriage or after marriage, one of the two. But it's a deal breaker. It's the number one cause of divorce. So, you know, you really want to deal with the number one cause. And so, you know, and in light of that, you're going deeply in debt on this car is a is a is a problem.


It's not wise. And I want you to be in a position to have a good life, not just have a good car.


And because I care about you. And the second thing is this.


The number two thing that causes problems in marriages is extended family who can't stay in their lane, interfering mother in laws, interfering father in law's interfering brother in laws that can't stay in their lane. And so we got two of the four issues that caused problems in marriage in play on this one subject. And so you and I, you know, I care about you. And so I as a part of us going forward, we've got to I've got to talk this through with you in some kind of kind way.


And you got to you're going to have to hear me on this because it's a it's a big deal, but not a day.


Let me ask you this question for Joe, because Joe said he's already. Toter, no, so was I. That's why I was saying for me, it seems like I'm framing it in we have to solve this as part of a long term relationship, not just you're buying a stupid thing.


I got you. I got you.


So the reason that you need to listen to this because you're not listening to this is is going to cause serious problems in our relationship. Yes.


Because we've got interfering in laws with too much dominance and we've got a bad decision on finances. Yeah. And those two things, because here's what this projects show for you is 10 years from now, this is worse, not better if it doesn't truncate now. Yeah.


Yeah, that's what I'm worried about. You'd have a field day with this guy. I mean, he's already like over a million over his head with a brand new arena. That's just the start. Yeah. If he gets into that like a day job. Yeah.


Well, he's not he's not going to make it and it's going to be sad and you're going to be sad for him because you're hopefully going to be married to his sister in law. And so you're going to get to witness the family going through financial destruction when he crashes and he will, because he's he's a reckless doob.


And so, you know, but the bottom line is, if you project negative things in a relationship into the marriage 10 years in. Yeah. In other words, if you marry a princess and you think she's not going to be a princess 10 years and you're an idiot, she's still going to be a princess, OK, if you marry a guy, girls that that that doesn't like to work much.


He's lazy. You don't expect him to suddenly get ambitious right after there's a ring.


OK, that that's dumb. Yeah.


And so you can project these behaviors into your future relationship and that makes them, if they're bad enough, a deal breaker on the relationship.


I mean. Well, you experienced this in your dating life. You told me stories about.


Absolutely. But I think that's why I'm still single, because I took the oh, Dave Ramsey philosophy. I just played that stupid, crazy range. You know, I just come straight for it.


But that's I totally agree with you. I think for me at 36, I'm like, I'm done trying to, you know, be soft. I know this is this is what I think.


And this is what I was I mean, you can cut to the chase pretty quick, you know, but, you know, you don't have to go a year into it to figure this out. Yes, sir. Like like twenty six minutes into the first date you go. Nope, nope. Ding, ding.


Twenty six minutes takes me ten minutes. Oh, wow. OK, all right. All right. I don't want to know anymore. I don't want to know your techniques. You don't need to tell them over there. I mean you might write a book on this.


I mean but if someone says, hey, I want to do finances or you know, I want to purchase a car or I want to stick with the credit card ten minutes into the game, I already know this is this is not going where I wanted to go.


Yeah. And if they're belligerent about it. Exactly. I mean, if they go well, you could probably talk me out of it. OK, I won't keep talking and do that.


If they're like then you're not going to change me. I don't know who you are. That OK, I won't check. Please check please. Anthony Oneone, my co-host this hour. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. Technology and innovation are crucial for any company success, but the primary focus should always be on you and meeting your needs. That's why you get the best of both with Zander Insurance and their term life plans. Xander uses time saving technology like over the phone applications, voice or electronic signature, and even plans with no medical exams to speed up the process of getting you the protection your family needs.


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Anthony O'Neal Ramsey personality is my co-host today on The Dave Ramsey Show. Kevin is up next. Kevin's in Salt Lake City. Hi, Kevin. How are you doing? You guys are better than I deserve. What's up? My wife and I are probably going to win, so we're going to wrap our baby step three this month. And so that means we're going to start a baby step three. B, we are renting currently. And and so we're looking to be in baby step three for quite a while.


My question is, do I start investing during baby step three? And can I start my phone to my work again? I mean, I'll off for about a year trying to get things stabilized. Baby steps.


And so is now the time when you have the emergency fund almost done and baby step three write. Right. And when will that be done? By the end of this month? OK, and then is when you're talking about this question, right?


Put. OK. All right, well, people do it two different ways and either way is OK with us. One way is that they do some investing while they're saving for their down payment on their home. OK. OK. And that obviously then slows down the amount you can put into the down payment fund. Agreed. Right, or sometimes they say, I'm going to hold off on baby step for investing until I get my down payment for my home built.


And so they paused right in the middle of baby steps, three billion pile of cash for the down payment, which obviously makes the down payment come a little bit faster, depending on how much you would have put in the investments. But either way is fine. We just don't want you saving for a house until you are debt free and have your emergency fund, which is where you are.


Yeah. Yeah. Kevin, how old are you? Your wife, man. We are 29 years old, 29 years old, washhouse annual income, the household income here.


Yeah, my wife and I are thirty six thousand a year.


OK, 36 hours. So how much are you looking to save to put down on a home? And we're hoping to do 10 percent down. And so for us, that means about thirty thousand dollars just, you know, give ourselves some wiggle room. There might be houses on the market for hundred thousand, but we could also go about 200000 range.


So you're anticipating you're anticipating your income coming up dramatically?


Yeah, no, you're not.


I mean, you're going qualify for a three thousand dollar loan. Do it on 36 grand, right? Yeah. Yeah, I agree. I'm I'm working to come up. I'm kind of working on Titanfall, but I'm also working on moving up my company. But yeah, it'll be a while before I'm I'm making what I want to be making for sure.


You may buy a starter house cheaper than that before you buy that house you're talking about. Yeah. As an example. So that changes a lot of stuff.


But yeah, it's all about the trajectory of your income because, you know, you're sitting there at about 40 percent of less than are not a little more than half of about 60 percent of the average household income in America right now. But you're just getting started in your career. There's no shame in that. Yeah.


And so you've got you know, you got to build up that income, though, to be able to save the down payment, to be able to qualify for a mortgage. And you may end up buying 100, 150000 on our house first or Dave.


And correct me if I'm wrong, but I would say in his situation, I would keep renting probably a little bit more. Go ahead and start investing, give my income up, then start looking into buying what might be my best way to do it. At 29 years old, 36000, get the thing up to 50, 55. Go ahead and start saving a little bit towards a home. But go ahead and start investing now and then when you get to right around that income and next maybe hopefully a year or two years, you can aggressively go after you save enough for the house.


That's good. That's a good point, because there's three knobs to tune here. Yeah. And which of those is the most important? Buying a house, investing or getting your income up for him to be when he's 49? Yes. A millionaire. Yes. Of those three in his situation, it would be income. Yup. That's the most important one.


Yes. And then buying the house and starting to invest would be somewhat tied. Right. Because both of those things need to occur to hit the millionaire. Yes. In twenty years. So really, really good stuff, man. Hi. Thanks for calling in. We appreciate you listening. Matt is in Washington, D.C.. Hi, Matt. Welcome to the show.


Hey, David, thanks so much for taking my call. Really appreciate it. Sure.


What's up? A question, so I don't know if I'm overthinking this or not, but some twenty five years old and I just moved to D.C. to be closer to my girlfriend and we broke up. And so I'm thinking about buying a motorcycle for about five grand. And I don't know if I can afford it or not. I make one hundred and twenty grand a year. I've got about one hundred and fifty grand cash just in the bank and I've got another hundred grand just sitting in 50 grand and single stocks and 50 grand less for one K.


You're kidding.


I do hope you got all of that and calling us about a on a purchase. Well, what's really going on here, 6000, say it again, I'm sorry, I said, what's really going on here? How much is the motorcycle? Five thousand dollars. Well, I also that one hundred and forty six thousand dollars in debt. Oh, well, write a check and pay all that off and then we'll have a discussion about a motorcycle and then buy the bike.


Yeah, I don't I have two investment properties I rent where I live. And I was going for rent on a car, but I don't know if I'm overthinking it or not, but I guess, you know, I don't know.


I guess you're saying maybe I am overthinking one percent of your life or is a five thousand dollar motorcycle, 99 percent of your life, which is one hundred forty six thousand dollars in debt.


Yeah. Got it right, a check. Pay off the debt, go buy the motorcycle. Are you buying a motorcycle because you're grieving over the girlfriend? Yeah, yeah, a little bit.


Yeah. I want something to do. I mean, I got my weekends with be with her and now I'm you know, we're not together. I just want to go out and make friends and just kind of have stuff to do. You know, you can make friends without a motorcycle back then.


Why do you need a motorcycle to make friends? You know, the only the only negative part about the motorcycle was, number one, the deaths in the way.


Number two, it sounds like it might be some grief spending, grieving over the relationship. Right. And not that it's because it's not going to kill you financially.


You can afford to buy the bike. You could afford to buy the bike and set fire to it in the driveway and not worry about it. It wouldn't it's not gonna kill you financially. But what you can't afford is to get into a situation where you react to bad feelings in your life by spending.


Yes. You can't you can't put that groove in your brain that that groove will destroy you long term.


Yeah, it definitely will. Definitely. And and hear me clearly, ma'am, when you pay off this debt, I want you go ahead and get your emergency fund back up because I got to give it to you to have that kind of money at this age. That's great. You just doing a little bit backwards from what we teach, you know. So go ahead and pause all your investments right now, because I want you go ahead and get out of debt and then make sure you get your three to six months.


You got enough to do that.


He probably just needs to allocate something or a couple hundred grand, if I understood. Right. Well, there's 150000 in his savings and 100000 in investments. Yeah.


So use some of both. Let's use all the savings. Yes. One hundred forty six thousand. You're paid off at least four thousand dollars. Right. OK, pull some out of investments and make sure it's set aside as an emergency fund and buy the bike.


Oh great. And you get all three done then you've got your first three baby steps and we call them and place them out. But just just start your own soul and look in the mirror and go, dude, is this just I'm I just grief spending here. Yeah. And that's not something you want to get into is a long term thing that every time I feel bad I spend every time I feel bad, I eat those kinds of things.


You know, this is why we don't move until you are married. Don't make a life changing move.


Could you said he moved to this place for his girlfriend. Hmm. I mean, that's that's different subject. I mean, we own the Dave Ramsey Show, so.


Hey, Anthony O'Neal show whatever. Don't go with me. I'll go with me. You're saying don't chase girls and boys around the country. Don't do it.


And not unless you not unless you are married. Like, why move to this hardcore? Why move in with the person you are hardcore. I mean, what.


I didn't say I'm not saying on that, but. Yeah, but I mean, chasing somebody, you know, moving to the city with the person. Yeah. Versus moving in.


Not entirely moving in. So you're into the city of the house.


Oh yes I am. If my daughter came home, said I'm moving to another city so I could be closer to my boyfriend, I would have a problem with that.


Yeah. I mean, it's not wrong. I'm just saying you're up and running your whole life for the possibility of this thing to work out.


I think I'd want some circumstances listed out around that before I would make that call. OK, if it sounded like immature and flighty and like she was being used up or manipulated. Yeah, definitely. OK, but if she's a strong woman, make her own calls. That's a different issue. This is the Dave Ramsey Show.


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My co-host on the air today, Ramsey personality number one, bestselling author Anthony O, b, O'Neal Odille doing a deal. So phone number here is eight eight two five five two two five on the debt free stage right here in Ramsey Solutions lobby.


Max and Carla are with us.


Hey, guys. How are you? Better than we deserve.


Dave, how are you? Just the same, sir. Welcome. Where do you guys live? About an hour outside of Washington, D.C.. In Gainesville, Maryland. OK, Baltimore area then closer to D.C., closer to D.C.. OK, cool.


Well, welcome. Good to have you guys. And you're here to do a debt free scream. How much have you paid off following your program? Serves about sixty five thousand dollars in 17 months. Wow. But in total is 90000 dollars in 28 months.


OK, all right. And so what was your range of income during that 28 months? 56000 to 90000.


OK. How long you guys been married? Three months.


Oh, there we go. Just like that. All right. Very cool. So 65000 in 17 months. And so it sounds like, Max, this was you.


Yes. All student loans. And you were working on this and then she just joined the parade. Carl, I've been dating for about nine years before we got married. So we were on the same page about a lot of the same things. He was always the one thing we butted heads on and that kind of came to a head. In December 2018, her and her sister got really into your podcast and me being a finance guy didn't want to listen.


I was paying off the highest interest rate first and I was making good progress on that. But like you said, you have to pay off the lowest amount first, follow the baby steps with the debt snowball, because you really make the emotional, psychological progress, which is the biggest part, because I felt that I was making any progress. I paid twenty five thousand dollars off about 11 to 12 months. Wow. Wow. I just went nuts.


Yeah. Because Allentown's doing OK. So it was more than just listing them smallest to largest versus highest interest rate. It was also you started to believe if you leaned into this, you could knock it out. Absolutely.


It was doing a few program bought. It started in January. Carla and her sister Emily oh, every Friday night for about nine weeks, got together, had pizza and watched on you. Our own little group. That's good. Good. Yeah.


You had some support groups from cheerleaders, everything. Yes, it's. Oh good. Very good. Good for you, dude. Very neat.


So now that you've done it, it was all off student loans. Absolutely. All students. What's your degree in finance and information systems. Of course.


OK, and now that you've done it, what do you tell people? The key to getting out of debt is two parts of their little cliche. But you have to do the budgeting. You have to have a Y budgeting. Do the budget, assign everything a category and stick to it like takes a little bit to get used to. But that was really the biggest helpful thing for me as well. I wouldn't have it all paid off for. And I got married.


I fell a little bit short of that. But about the day after we got married, we paid it off together.


I finished, though I finished the last little bit of fun. That's a way to celebrate. Good. Very good.


What was your so your main wise was to pay your debt off before you got married to Carla? Yes. How did you feel about that, Carla?


Well, I we grew up really different financial philosophies for our families. And my parents never followed Dave, but had really similar ideology. So I grew up with that idea of, like, you always pay off your debts. You don't invest until you are, like, totally free and clear. And so I just wanted to make sure we're on the same page. And it really worked out that doing a few made sure that we were totally like money is like not a problem anymore because we're able to, like, totally talk about it.


So more than just paying off the debt, being on the same page was like really a big deal.


Again, M0 very, very well done.


All right, Max, you and I were both trained academically the same way. So our brains moved to math before heart. Yes. And so we immediately it's still painful to me to give advice after 30 years of doing it and knowing it's right. Sometimes it's the nerd inside of me struggles with saying, OK, this isn't mathematically correct, but it's still the right thing to do. So the debt snowball list, your debts smallest to largest versus highest interest rate is mathematically incorrect.


It is not as efficient mathematically, but the winner is that it is behavior, obviously, and personal finance is 80 percent behavior. It's only twenty percent math.


So guys like you and me are out there listening to this conversation right now. And, you know, they're saying, I'm not doing this Ramsay thing. I'm going to be Ramsey ish. And I do the what they call it thing, the debt avalanche, what somebody calls it to do it the other way. Right. And and the Ramsey debt snowball, he just doesn't know what he's doing. Answer their question.


They're wrong. Yeah, they're wrong. The first upset I listed yours. Why? Why? It's I felt like I was making zero progress paying the twenty five thousand dollars that first year following the highest interest rate was just the same large payment to the same. Lender and I just saw these little guys just sitting there, like still is like 27, 30 thousand dollars in that range at the end of the year. Like, I haven't even touched these.


So there is all going to interest and the psychological thing just works. I can't say why exactly, but it worked for me and I think it works for everyone. Your program is amazing. Well, thank you. I appreciate that.


I want to look for that part. I just saying, the thing is now your program changed our family tree forever. Yeah.


You guys you guys are amazing. I'm so proud of your heroes and you, Kalila, for showing showing the sky the way and then and then marrying him up.


It's all good. Yeah. Life is good. Yeah. You guys are amazing. You're going to be in great, great shape other than Carla and her sister. Who were your biggest cheerleaders? Our parents as well. OK.


Wow. A lot of a lot of eating at home. And we lived at home at the time. So so I lived at home pretty much for the whole time. I was paying off my student loans, commuting an hour and 20 minutes to and from the office. Wow. Just you have to make a lot of sacrifices to do this. Got a lot of time to listen to the podcast. Yeah.


What was the hardest sacrifice that you had to do? Selling all my investments when I first started the program.


It was single stock investments, had some bonds I was just holding on to till they hit maturity. But that was one of the hardest. But once you get past that, no part of it and just start following, thinking about it more, listen to the podcast. Listen to your support system. It all just falls in place.


Yeah, well, here you are, debt free. You don't have to pay much or feel amazing. I'm proud of you, too. Well done. Very well done. You guys are heroes. Very well done. We got a copy of Chris Hogan's book for you every day. Millionaires', that is what you're going to be. That's the next chapter in your story. You're going to be there. So very, very well done.


Max and Carlaw from Baltimore, Maryland, are from Washington, D.C. area. Sixty 65000 paid off in 17 months, making 56 to 90 countdown. Let's hear a debt free scream. Three to one. We're debt free.


Yes. Oh, whoa, oh. This is how it's done right here, man. Wow. I love it, yeah, so Carla comes up in a household, she's a financial piece, maybe in a sense they weren't financial people, but they were living by principles of being conservative with money, staying out of debt, saving money in those kinds of things. And no parent ever wants their kids to experience the panic of being unprepared for a crisis.


A lot of parents had to watch their grown kids during covid freaking out.


Yes, because they were in a mess. And we got your back.


We can show you how to do this. We have a fully digital self study course for your teenagers.


And you can rest assured your teen will know the right way to handle money and never make the same money mistakes that millions have made. The best part is there's no instructor needed. The courses are self-paced. If your teen has a tablet or a computer, they're all set. It's a home study for basically a home school in a sense, self study for home, for your teenagers, for middle or high school students.


Go to Dave Ramsey, dotcom slash self study, Dave Ramsey dotcom slash self study and never again worry about your kids being unprepared.


Here's one way you could look at this, Anthony. You could look at this. If you buy this and then make them do it, it's they won't live in your basement in the future.


Insurance, it's an insurance policy. It is to move them out. And Anthony's the primary teacher on Anthony.


Rachel me? Yes. I think Hodgkinson's some of it, organizing some of it.


But I mean, again, it's mainly you the best communicator on that platform is myself, which I was teaching on humility. I mean, absolutely. You know, but I'm just saying it's going to be fun.


Dave, I watched all of it. And I'm telling you right now, it's fine. But I mean, your kids will learn to learn something, laugh, and they will grow mature. Yeah, well, the cool factor Anthony brings to it and the wisdom of bring.


So there you go. I hear you go. Yeah. Just keep going. This is the day. Ramsay Chef. Anthony O'Neal is the Ramsey personality, is my co-host today here on the air, open phones of eight eight two five five two two five.


And Sherri is up in Ann Arbor, Michigan. Hi, Sherri. How are you? I'm great. How are you?


Better than I deserve. How can we help? So I have refinanced my house about six months ago and the company that my mortgage was sold to would actually be a second refinance that I've done. I have I got screwed. Basically, they told me I would get refinanced and I would get five hundred dollars cash back. And when I get when the writer came to do the paperwork, I never got my money. So I called my mortgage counselor guy and I said, Where's my money?


And he said, Oh, well, you're not getting any. I said, No. You told me I was going to get five hundred dollars cash. Where's my money? And he said, well, they determined that you weren't going to get in, get any cash back. I said, that's not what you told me. I said, where's my money? I said, You know why I asked you about that? And he would, yes, I know your gutters are falling off your house.


I said, right. And he said, well, you could take out a home equity loan. And I said, So you want me to go into more debt? After you promised me I was going to get five hundred dollars, he was like, well, I'm sorry. I said, that doesn't cut it. Where's my money? And then he said, Oh, my other phone is ringing. I got to go. And he hung up on me.


Hmm. So where are we now? Well, right now, I refinanced my house and I'm on a 30 year mortgage and I use a VA mortgage because I'm a veteran.


OK, and I had actually reached out to one of your church or mortgage people after that happened, and he said, well, let me look at your paperwork. So I sent a copy and he's like, huh? And then he asked me who the mortgage company was. He said, I know a lot of companies in Michigan. And I told them what it was. And he said, I have never heard of that company ever before.


Hmm. So what can we help you with today? I was wanting to know, would it would it be worth my while to refinance with a more reputable company?


No. That's what I thought, but I wasn't quite sure.


Yeah, I have added the disreputable things that they have done or in the past. A VA mortgage is a very precise mortgage.


It's going to be only one thing and they can only do one thing with it.


They can't go in and just, you know, just decide to change something so they won't they can't change your interest rate. They can't change your terms. They can't change how they deal with a veteran. All of that is dictated by the Veterans Administration. And so and very likely, if this is a small Fly-By-Night organization, they're probably going to sell the mortgage anyway. They're probably not going to keep it.


This is the second this is the company that was sold to and I didn't even know it was the actual mortgage company. They use a collection agency to get their mortgage payments. And I thought the collection agency was the mortgage company because I didn't even know who the real mortgage company was until they wanted to refinance. Yeah, why was there for me to refinance? You weren't paying on time. I was your collection agency. The question need to see is that the company uses a different agency, which is a collection agency out of California, to collect all their payments.


I didn't I thought that was the actual mortgage company when my mortgage was sold to begin with. And then I find out a year later, two years later, that that's not the actual company. There is another company that oversees or that uses this other company, the collection agency, to collect their mortgage payments.


Now, if you refinance, when you finish refinancing with Churchill, that mortgage is going to be sold to someone. Churchill doesn't hold mortgages and most mortgage companies that originate loans do not hold mortgages. So you would just jump out of the frying pan potentially into the fire. So I think you're perfectly safe where you are now. The only reason you would refinance is if you could get a dramatically lower interest rate. And that's what you're looking for. But I don't think that's the case here.


I think you probably are locked in and. Anthony, one of the things when you're doing a mortgage or anything like this. It's just it comes with experience, but I've had to make myself and I've done it more in the last 10 years probably than in the other 50 years of my life. But when something feels wrong or smells wrong, it's because it is. And we have this tendency once we're on a track, even though there's warnings to continue.


Yeah, you get a bad sense about something, but you continue anyway.




And I have learned to just stop and get off. Yeah. And it takes a lot of emotional energy to stop and get off of something that's already underway.


Yes. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And eat.


But, but you if every time I don't do that I get bit later. Yeah. And I like how you said stop and I even say sometimes just pause you know, just, just do a heart stop, pause the journey and just step back and just look at everything. And then for like younger people I even say, get wise counsel, ask questions. I come here and iReports like Dave, I'm thinking about doing this. I'm thinking about doing that.


You may see something or experience something like you said that I have not experienced then. Now it goes from Paul. So I'm off of it or I go from Paul's when? That's right, Anthony. Now I can get back on a journey because now I have wise counsel in the process. And so I think you're absolutely right, Dave. I've I've going down a road that I wish I would have asked somebody or I wish it would have stopped and got out of a situation, especially with mortgages.


Now, I understand I wrote a book about the proverb that says along the lines of I can't quote it exactly, but it says that the wise, when they see danger, seek refuge. Yes, sir. The simple. Proceed on and are punished for it. We are, and I have been both, yes, I know the difference. Sometimes I've been simple, but it's like when I know something is wrong, there's a pattern here of misbehavior or lying or weird feelings.


Every time I'm around this person, I get a weird feeling that there's a pattern there. And when I ignore that, I'm being simple and I'm going to be punished for it.


The Wise Stops seeks refuge and isn't punished by continuing forward.


And what ends up being a bad relationship, a bad job, a bad money decision, a bad career decision, whatever it is.


And that is so hard to do, though, because once something's underway, it has it has a certain inertia, a certain momentum to it and to stop in the middle of the deal and push. Pause. Yeah. Or in the middle of that, he'll push. Stop. Yeah. And say, you know what, I think we're done here. Would you say Dave Desk?


Because the whys calculate their risk in an unwise of like, oh, that won't happen to me. It's happened to everyone else, but it won't happen to me.


Well it's happened to me before, but it's not going to happen to me again this time. Right. We ignore even our own experiences. Yes, I've done that.


I can look back and go, I knew this was bad. I knew this was bad. I knew this was bad.


And I kept going and I smelled a rat. And then it was a rat and I was surprised. Why was I surprised? I smelled a rat. Yeah, I shouldn't have been surprised.


There was a rat there, you know, but it's just I'm dumber than a rock man and I have to learn the hard way, it seems like.


And and there's a little bit of that in her story. Yeah. That she knew in her noer that there was a problem with this company, but she just went on and got the refinance done waiting on that five hundred bucks for the or refinanced the whole mortgage.


A whole house obviously got her five hundred dollars. Yeah. And then 500 dollars becomes an issue. So that was you know that. Right.


That tells you something tells you you're off off the track. And so that's not picking on her. I'm just saying, I'm saying I've been the king of this, but and I teach our leaders around here, we're dealing with a vendor and they keep screwing up and they keep not delivering. And that keeps growing up and they keep not living. And I look at one of my leaders.


I go, why are we continuing to do this? Right. I'd be mad at him about it, right? But obviously, if you expect them to not to change the pattern of what they've been doing, whether it's misbehavior or proper behavior, they're not likely to change that.


And Dave, you taught me this earlier today at lunch when we sat down and said, name the company. But you say, hey, because of this, what particular company did I just cancelled everything because I don't trust them. They show me exactly what they're doing. So why go down that road? Let's go a different route.


They screw me here. They'll screw me there. Yes. I mean, it's not some hard concept. Yeah.


And so you just got you know, you got you got to be thoughtful about it. And that's a really good principle that Andy wrote about. I did a whole book on it.


He's spoken here on a devotional on it. And you remember the name of the book.


It's called The Principle of the Path Principle. The Path, the Path. Don't continue on the path. OK, you know what it amounts to is Proverbs 23. I believe it is. All right. Anyway, this is The Dave Ramsey Show.


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