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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the bar with car rentals through. This is the Dave Ramsey Show where America hangs out to have a conversation about your life and your money. I'm Chris Hogan and co-host hosting. With me this hour is Kip Coleman, and we are excited to be with you. You got to Ramsey personalities in one location with a whole lot of opinions and the ability to give guidance. So what we need are people to talk to.


So what I want you to do is pick up the phone, call it triple eight eight two five five two two five. Again, that's eight eight eight eight two five five two two five. I have given Coleman a lot of coffee. I got he has a lot of caffeine. He's wide awake now. He's ready.


And that's that's just pure passion, folks. That's enthusiasm with two hours of the Ken Coleman show before we got over here. So I'm warmed up, ready to go. We love what we do. Yes, we know why we do it. And you are the reason why we do it. And so let's go. You know, I just feel like, Chris, we got some people who are listening right now.


They're going, you know what I mean? Listen, the day for a long time and listen to you guys on Dave and all the other energy personalities. And there's a reason I've been listening, but I haven't called it. It's intimidating. It's a little scary. And I just want to talk to that person for a moment. You're not a prop. We're not here to make an example of you. We're here to guide you because you matter. Yeah, you have what it takes.


And we want to be the person. If it's just today, you needed to talk to one of us, both of us. We're going to be here for you. That's why we do it. So call right now eight eight to five, five twenty five. I feel like somebody needs a call that's always been scared to call and step into that fear, because on the other side of fear, it's progress.


Oh, I like that. Pick it up. Dial it. Now, we've also told you guys to send us questions all the time. We're always asking you for social media questions. We have some in. And I'm going to hit Coleman with a question here in just a minute. But I want to let you know you can find us on social media very easily. Ken, is that Ken Coleman? He can find him on Twitter, Instagram, all the places there.


And of course, he's got the Ken Coleman show. So go to Ken Coleman dot com to learn all things. Ken Coleman for me, you can go to Chris 360. Dotcom, learn more about me. You can find me on social media at Cuyahoga 360. So we're going to dive in. I got a social media question for you, Kim. It says this is from Howard from Instagram. He goes, What do I need to do if I want to move into a higher position and a company, maybe a better work ethic or more skills or perhaps a master's degree?


What does Howard need to do?


Well, that's interesting. I got to tell you, I get distracted by maybe a better work ethic. I want to dive into that. If you're suggesting that you're not working hard enough, then I think we've got a bigger issue. And I and I just truly wonder if that's what's going on. But I would tell you this.


You better be doing something that is is is dealing with the now or there is no next. And that is maximizing your role. So let's start with OK, Howard, you want a higher position in a company. So let's assume that you've identified that higher position. What is that position? Let's know what it is. All right. Let's look at and go now. What are the requirements for that position? You've got the inside track because you're in the company, so it's going to be hard to figure this out.


But at that point, once you know what the requirements are, you better be looking at your current position. And in this situation, it is knowing your role. That's very clear what is expected of you in your current role, accepting your role. That's an attitude. If you have an attitude, I'm grateful for this role and then maximize your role. That's effort and the fact that you refer to would it be a better work ethic? I don't think that should be in your question.


And I know I'm not coming down on how. Right. But I am saying, if you're if you're throwing that out there, I don't know that you're maximizing. And what I mean by that is Chris going above and beyond now here at Ramsay Solutions, we have what we call a key responsibilities area document right now says this is what we at Ramsey Solutions expect from Ken Coleman. Right. This is what we expect from Chris Hoggett. Well, just because it's on paper doesn't mean I can't go above and beyond that.


In fact, I should. And that's how you get promoted by going above and beyond.


So he'd better get noticed for really crushing it in his current where he is now while indicating that I tried to go to this role and I like that you said indicating I'm interested in that role.


I don't think there's anything wrong with verbalizing it. I don't think there's anything wrong with inquiring about it and be able to get the info. Yes, exactly. You got to ask you have got to let people know that you're interested. All right, Howard, thank you for reaching out. And you know what? Other people out there I know you've got questions as well. Find us at Ramsey Show, at Ken Coleman, at Chris Hogan 360. We'd love to be able to talk to you.


All right. We're going to get to the phones. That's what we do. We've got Jason is on the line in Albuquerque. Jason, how are you? I'm doing great, thanks for having me. I hope you have a wonderful day. Well, thank you. My. We are. We are. We're glad to talk to you. What's on your mind, buddy?


Well, I've been on the program now for just a few months, you know, hardcore. I was kind of doing my own thing before that, but I've paid off a little over nine grand in a few months. All right. A couple of credit cards in the remainder of the student loan. My next question is what comes next? So I have a I have a second mortgage that was a cash out refinance and it's got 75 five on the balance.


And I've also got a four one car loan that's got 15 on the balance. I know. I know. Baby steps today to go for the small little. The question I have, should I do that, considering my seven mortgage has a balloon payment due October of next year?


OK, so I appreciate you saying that about the balloon payment, because that's that's important information. What's your household income right now, Jason? Tenancingo on 2008 82. OK, so you've paid off nine thousand. What happened? What made you get serious?


You know, I funny story, I was kind of messing with numbers, with retirement, with a buddy of mine at work and and we were playing with percentages and this and that. And the other guy is the great. If I could throw some more money at it, we just kind of started talking about the same thing. And I started watching and I started eating. And I just I put down my hair on fire and I'm on my way.


That's fantastic, man.


And I'm got to tell you something that's the key to people getting to destinations. When you have that kind of mindset, how are things on the job? They're great, I've I have I have found what I'm supposed to do. All right, what line of work would you embody? I work at a national research and development laboratory. OK, now, now I got to go into Quattrocchi mode. Would you do this for one kid for so you know, I was in my in my marriage.


I was I was very good at shifting debts from one person to another, making it seem like we had money, oh, three card monte and got divorced.


I had about sixty five kids in my name cleared up and I'm down to the last. I'm proud of you buddy.


So let me ask you, Jason, if you were to follow the baby steps as it is. And so let's say we were going to take the 15.


When do you project that you would pay off the 15, the 50000 for that you have in about seven months, maybe a little shorter, depending on my side.


And the balloon payment goes to what is basically in about a year and a half, what is it going to is doing?


All right.


So how much would it be? So how much would you do? Oh, I mean, paying only the minimum, probably 65. I mean, it would be.


Yeah, I got to tell you, Chris, I think he goes he's he's ten months. He knocks the 15. Go ahead. Knock the 75 out. There's such a small difference.


It is. And you know, here's the reality of this with the four one K loan. And we'll talk about this more after the break. There's dangers to these people. You've got to be careful and we'll talk about this after the break. Stay tuned, my friends. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Finding the right pair of sunglasses on a budget is difficult. They're either too expensive or they don't hold up. But recently I got a great pair of sunglasses from shady rays.


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Welcome back, America. You're listening to the Dave Ramsey Show, I'm Ramsey personality kid Coleman joined in studio by Ramsey personality Chris Hogan. And we are here for you, taking your phone calls about money, about life, about your job. Are you sick of the nine to five that just dead end job? Life is too short to work for the weekend. We can talk to you about how to figure out what that dream job is and how you get there.


Chris Hogan going to be answering your money questions, retirement questions, investing questions. We're going to tag team them together as we enjoy doing that. 8255, two to five is the number, triple eight eight two five five two two five. Now, Chris, as we went into the break, you know, this radio thing, you got these limits. Yes. That are defined by commercials. We don't have a choice. So we got to go.


That's what we were talking to, Jason, a young man. And just a quick recap, because I talked about this is we're going to break. But we were talking about during the commercial break. And I want you to clarify some things as to why we say what we say here. So he's in a situation where he has a second mortgage, which is a which has a balloon payment attached to it. And it's due next October. That's right.


He owes seventeen thousand five hundred dollars on that. He has a 401k loan of fifteen thousand dollars. And the nature of his question was, I'm all in on Dave's baby step plan. And so Dataplan would say smallest debts to largest. So traditionally would go, let's knock the fifteen thousand dollars out first, the 401k. That's right.


However, he's got that balloon payment that would have a penalty to it. And so I gave him some advice and I went to the break. I said, Christine, I say the right thing. And so this is a it's not a discrepancy, but this is a unique situation. Explain.


Yes, it really is. So whenever you look at you're dealing with a balloon, essentially what's going to happen is once you get to that maturity date, the full thing is do. And so if you don't have that, then what would happen is you'd have to start back over refinancing. So you're going to have the refinance fees, the points, all the things rolled back, the full seventeen five point fifty plus some fees.


That's exactly right. So and on the other side of it, with the 401k loan, if his job were unstable, he said his situation was stable. If it's unstable and you're going to lose or leave a job, you have around 30 to 90 days before you have to fully pay that back or it's counted as a penalty as well.


So in this scenario, with his job being stable and his home being his largest monetary asset, attacking that second mortgage, that balloon is going to be the priority to get that out of his life before the due date next October. So that in that scenario, you want to understand the full context of what he could do. And now he's freed up his home. Now he can turn his attention to the four one K loan and not borrow anymore.


And it's important, I did not mention that. We asked Jason how soon in his timeline would he pay off the 15000, which would be the normal baby? And he said months. It would be 10 months. So presumably a year from now, he knocks out the 17 five, which is why we suggested that rock out the larger debt in this particular situation, because of the bullying, because they will be able to pay off. But no, he can't do both.


Right. But he could it would require some serious cut back and there's some serious, serious stuff. But going that route. So. All right. That's good. All right. We've been telling you guys to send us stuff in on social. And I got a question from Brianna. And Brianna says, My husband is a youth pastor and I'm a stay at home mom of a four month old. We have 3000 in medical debt, 7000 car and 7000 credit card debt.


I don't see where or how we can start. We have both on Financial Peace University. Years ago, we were in college and were debt free last fall before losing our jobs at a university. It seems like a hole that we just can't dig out of, Brianna. First and foremost, I want to acknowledge the tension and stress you're feeling in the situation. You've had some job loss and now you're a new mom and you've got some things that are stacked up against you.


You've had some unforeseen things come your way. But I want to assure you that the way out is clear and that's going to be a matter of really getting plugged in and going back to what you know, you said you've been through Financial Peace University before. It's now time to get plugged back in and you guys together locking arms, looking at this situation going, you've got around 17000 in debt. Right. And with a car, you have options of selling medical debt.


You're going to pay what you can afford to pay. And we're just walking through this thing. You didn't get into this overnight and it's not going to go away overnight, but it can go away with the plan. So I want to encourage you, young lady, to get plug back in over and to Ramsey plus where you can see the videos here. The information start to get your mojo back and you and your husband lock arms and look at this and say, for the sake of this four month old baby that you guys are going to clean this mess up in this next year.


And I firmly believe that you can do it.


Oh, they can do it 17000 dollars. I don't want to minimize how scary that. Because for them, that's Mt. Everest. It is, but in the grand scheme of things, 17000, not a lot. And I just wanted to add, you know, listen, on that medical debt, I've been in a situation where I've had that early on. We had some unforeseen medical bills and they just stacked up. And I got scared until somebody told me, you know, just call him and talk to him.


And we did. And we said, OK, this is what we can do. And they were fine with it. And it was a small payment until we could. That's right. Snowball that. That's right. And so you have options there, as you said. And in that car, you've got options. And then, hey, you got to able bodied adults. Let's find somebody who will watch that baby first season and you go work.


And before you know it, 17 grand is a distant memory. So it feels huge. But I got to tell you, the biggest part of a lot of this is just to realize there is a way to get out of this. And that's really the emotion she was sharing. We don't know where to start. Can we actually do it?


That's right. Can we do it? And I want you to know you can. Now, I know there are people out there that have done it and they like Chris. We dug our way out. We've done stuff. I want you to know right now what you can do, because this year has left a lot of people feeling more scared about money than they've ever been. All they know is that they never again want to be in this situation.


And they have no idea, like, Brianna, where to start. Well, that's where you can come in and help us. A financial peace university coordinator coordinators are everyday people like you who walk people through life and help them with our proven plan on how to dump debt, save for emergencies and build wealth so they never again have to feel that worry. You don't have to be a money expert to be a coordinator. We take care of all of the teaching.


Let me say that again, we take care of all of the teaching. You can even lead a virtual class right from home. And just for leading, we'll give you a free Ramsey plus membership for an entire year. Did you hear this? So that means you get all of our tools, all of our best content, so you can stay focused on your own goals while helping others. Guys, as a coordinator, you can change someone's life.


I'm telling you right now, you can show them the way to take control of their money for good. No more fear, no more stress, no more sleepless nights. I want you to be the one to throw out the lifeline to someone. So to learn more text, lead FP. You text the word lead FPU to three three seven eight nine. Again, that's lead FPU. All one word to three three seven eight nine. I'm going to tell you something.


You have an opportunity to make a difference and don't think that you can't help. There's always people that are in need and we'd love to have you. And so this is a great opportunity for us to plug in and to help many more people killed.


Let me tell you something, folks. You're thinking some of you're going, you know what, I'd like to do that. But the problem is, Chris, can I'm I'm just getting myself started in baby step two. I've been a mess. I've done all these dumb things. Let me remind you, the guy's name is on the building. Said he has done a lot of dumb things and that's why we all exist, because he learned from it.


And I'll tell you something else, Chris, that I know you can speak to this and this is a challenge. Some of you feel like you're disqualified from being a coordinator because you're in a mess right now. Can I tell you something? You're not teaching the class. Dave Ramsey is Chris Hogg. It is Anthony O'Neal. Rachel, crude's you know, you're just there as the facilitator and the friendly face who presses go on the on the video, if you will.


And I have learned this in my life, that my greatest seasons of growth were when I was actually trying to help others.


And when you step into this and say, I'm going to be the friendly face, I'm going to be the person who opens up my home or gets a room in a church or library or whatever, and I'm going to be the person that stands up the first week and go, hey, I'm leading this. But I want to be honest with you, we're starting baby step to this is our situation. We know where you are. We're just in this because we know we need help and we kind of wanted a community and like, say something, you will have so much more growth.


And I think a greater potential to get through the baby steps faster because you said, you know what, I'm going to decide to lead a group you're not leading other than by example.


That's I like that kid. And here's the deal. I firmly believe if you've ever walked through a mess, if you've ever walked through a mess, it qualifies you to be a messenger. You've got an opportunity to share it, to help others grow, reach out that hand. And I'm telling you, some of the coaches, some of the coordinators have helped themselves push faster, further because they're that plugged in. Stay tuned, people. This is the Dave Ramsey Show.


Hello, everyone. You are listening to the Dave Ramsey Show hosting, along with me this hour is Ken Coleman. I'm Chris Hogan. We're excited to be with you. We were talking about the ability to be a financial peace university coordinator a little bit earlier and gives you a great opportunity to be able to help people. And you can do that again by getting serious and plugging in and text the word lead FPU to three three, seven, eight, nine.


Also, I would be remiss to not talk about our financial coach master training. This is a group of people that want to be financial coaches. They actually want to work with people one on one to help them with their financial situation. I lead that training and it is all done virtual online. You've got a great opportunity to plug in and just go over to Dave Ramsey, Dotcom and financial coach, master training, financial coaching. You can get more information about how you can become a coach.


People are using that to to bring in a source of income, whether they're wanting to do it as a ministry or do it as a business. It's a great opportunity for you to learn more about financial coaching. So Dave Ramsey, dotcom, financial coaching. All right. We're wanting your questions. There it is. Hold on. Throw that back up, guys. Those are watched on YouTube. You'll have an opportunity to be able to see that graphic.


But there it is, financial coach, master training, how to become a confident financial coach. So, again, people kin are always asking about ways they can bring in extra money to find a side hustle. There's opportunities out there, my friend. There's always opportunities.


And, you know, if you think about our financial coach program, what that's training you to do is start your own business.


I mean, that is very much an entrepreneurial venture. And but but, you know, it's not for the faint of heart because I get this call a lot because, you know, the Ramsey Solutions Tribe and I get this call on the coach all the time. Hey, kid, what do you think about me becoming a financial coach?


I said, are you prepared to do it for three to five years? Are you prepared to do it for two years? Because this is not a hey, I'm a financial coach and everybody comes out of the woodwork. Right. You got to build this one client at a time. And so understand that when you take on a side hustle like this, whether it be financial coaching or whatever you want to do, you're going to have to have the mindset for the long haul.


You know, if I walk out on the streets of Nashville, Chris, with a camera crew to Mike and I walk around, I said, hey, if I guarantee you that you can get your dream job, are you willing to do whatever it takes? Everybody's going to go, oh, absolutely. But then if I followed up with the second question, I say, are you willing to wait as long as it takes? Then anybody starts going, oh, whoa, wait, wait, wait, wait, how long are we talking about?


And so that's the natural human inclination is to want it now. And so understand, if you're going to start something, it's going to take some time and you better be committed to waiting, not just the working.


That's a good point. And I had someone tell me, Hogan, I want to do what you and Coleman do. I go, are you sure? Yeah. Are you sure? Because, I mean, you see us on the camera, but you're not up at three thirty in the morning. Oh, you're studying things and you know, the reps. And again, you got to put in the work.


Are you willing to introduce a mime at a local festival where seventeen people in lawn chairs aren't looking at you even though they're right in front of you and the mime leave you hanging? I have no idea really.


That's what I did. I have nightmares. Well, my point is you and I have done some things that aren't fun. That's.


Oh, yes. That we. Yes, we have. And that's paying the dues. That's part that's part of getting the reps. All right. We're going to the phones eight eight two five five two to five. Again, that's eight eight eight eight two five five two two five. And we got Kim on the line out in St. Cloud, Minnesota. Kim, how can I help you, young lady?


Hi. Thanks for taking me. To be sure, I have kind of a weird question. First of all, we're on I believe it's baby step number six trying to pay your mortgage. Wow. Really good for you. Thank you. We. Have almost enough in savings to completely pay it off, however, that will that will wipe us out of savings. So we're we're kind of wondering, do we do that? Do we throw it all at that?


And then we have that, you know, monthly that we can that we wouldn't pay in mortgage to put back in savings and start building that up again? Or does it pay to throw a large chunk at that that you know? But the other part of this is. With covid and I don't know what had to do with the Furlaud, I have developed quite a desire to stay home with our kids, so I'm not sure on our timing. I guess I'm just looking for any advice or direction.


How much money do you how much how much money did you make prior to being furloughed? I make about, I think last year, 50000. My husband makes. About three times that much so I'm a small amount in our income, and you're currently still furloughed.


I'm not anymore. No, you're not. So you're back. OK, gotcha, and then I'm back. All right. So your desire if money wasn't an object at all, which feels like it's really not for you, but you would just love to be home full time. That's what your heart's just screaming at you, correct?


That's exactly it.


I think it's a good thing I have never felt this way before, but I am just strongly feeling that if you if you were to walk home today and not earn another nickel, how much longer before you guys would pay off the house if you didn't throw a lump sum at it?


In other words, if it was just your husband's income, how long would it take to pay off the house? Yeah, we have them in our home for about seven years. We do unfortunately have a 30 year mortgage, but we've been paying extra from the beginning.


No, I understand. But how long what would the payoff be if you went home today and it was just your husband's income? Forget putting the all the savings on it. Just normal mortgage payment.


How long before he paid off? I honestly don't even know he would know that, but I think we have about 100, just over 100000 left. OK, tell me this, Kim.


How much do you have in the bank right now in savings? About 100000. OK, is that when did you start saving that up? How much of when did you all start saving? Let me ask you that.


You know, little by little. And all of a sudden, as my husband started making more, we we still lived. I mean, we've been following you, you know, your principles to a T. So we've just kind of been snowballing. We have, you know, the investments going our kids in college. And we I guess anything extra, we just keep putting in savings. And all of a sudden we thought, well, we have a lot there.


How much of that is your your emergency fund? I think about 30 of them. OK. And that's overkill, that's over six months. I'm with you. So. And you owe how much on the mortgage right now. I think we are just over 100000. OK, so it wouldn't be that you would pull it all out, but what you could do is you could get down to the 30 in your six month emergency fund. OK, keep the 30 in there.


You could stroke a check for 70 and throw it at this mortgage. And that does help, right, that cuts a turn off of interest. It is going to it is going to make a massive chunk toward it. But bottom line is, is you guys, you could call and get a 30 day payoff on the house, just for example, just to find out if you were to write a check right now, what would be the payoff on this?


Now, what you're also going to find out is if you all signed up for any kind of prepayment penalty on the mortgage, most people aren't aware of that when they first sign up. So call your mortgage company. And I'm like, can't speak to the stay at home part. Call your mortgage company, get a 30 day pay off just so you get a feel for it. Go ahead. You and your husband, sit down, talk about it, write a 70000 dollar check over from savings into that.


Send that toward your mortgage. So now you're down to around 30, 35 thousand dollar balance on there. OK. And so I don't think that there's any problem. No, I'm not wiping out the entire savings. You see what I'm doing? We're keeping the six month emergency fund in there. And I don't think there's a problem with that at all.


Yeah, I agree. And I'm guessing that your husband is fine with you coming home. Yes or no, if we had that discussion. Yes, he's he's all for it, it takes a lot on his plate as well. I think you resign tomorrow. That's what I do. I give him two weeks or whatever you think is the proper amount of notice. I want to give you freedom to do this. Your heart. Well, hold on just a minute.


She's home. She's she wants to go home. Well, she needs to first think about. Are you sure about this? She's possibly having an inkling. It's one thing. Then stop talking. Let's ask her. Are you how sure a view of this are you, Kim, that this is what your heart's telling you to do?


Oh, my gosh. I wish I was 100 percent sure. It's just very scary and. All right.


So. All right. So here's the deal. Talk with your husband again when you're having the mortgage conversation. Once we get that done, say, hey, babe, are we going to be OK on this? And he's going to say, yes, we are. And you are. And it if that's what your heart's telling you, do it. Go home. Your life is going to be immeasurably better. That house is going to be paid off really soon.


You guys are living like no one else, so start living like no one else. Go home. Go home. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. This is the Dave Ramsey Show on Ramsey personality and best selling author Ken Coleman, joined by best selling author Chris Hogan and Ramsey personality as well. We are having a blast as we sit and talk to you, America, about your life, specifically your money, your job, relationships around those decisions.


Are you in a hole or you're stuck? Are you scared? Are you facing some doubt? Well, I'm telling you, clarity is one phone call away eight four. Excuse me. That's my number on the Ken Coleman show. When you say that many times a day, you got to be careful when you close the Dave Ramsey show.


I call myself two digits in. Yeah, you did. You did a good job. I was going to throw a flag. Yeah, well, it's happened before. No, the Dave Ramsey Show number is eight eight two five five two two five eight eight two five five two two five. James, our producer. That's why we have show notes to make sure that I look at that so that I don't go into the Ken Coleman show. No, but to be fair, I'm a part of the Ramsey media network.


So it's all, you know, just got to be careful. Got to be careful. So we got the number. Yeah, we do. Have you ever done that, throwing out the Chris Hogan show? No. Nope. You've never done that? No. Well, good on Chris.


He's such a good student. I am so jealous because I looked at it before. I said I want to make sure. And that's why it's what happened. Right. Happens. Hey, listen, if you're out there, seriously, you've got a question. We'd love to talk. You pick up the phone. Kelly is ready. We're here to talk to you, find us on social media as well. The social media questions are are digging and coming in.


We love that. We're going to take a couple here in a little bit. But first, we're going to get to the phones. We got Ben. We're going international. Got Ben on the line. Ben, how can can I help you today? I can address, so I'm a young guy married on the west coast of Canada, and what I'm what I'm trying to do right now is figure out my plan for the fall, which is coming up pretty quick.


One year into my undergrad, I worked for a few years before going to university, finished in one year. My wife is going to school for medicine. So right now I've been offered a job and I got a job beginning of July. So I've been working full time, making around fifty three year. And of course and then I'm trying to figure out now, what does my father look like when school comes around? I can give you some more numbers if you want, but that's that's what I'm trying to figure out because I want to balance not going into debt for school.


I also want to get an education. I think that there's a lot of value in that. And then, of course, I actually really love my job as well. So I'm trying to balance all these things.


Are you. Let me ask you this. Are you doing both right now? I'm not I skipped the summer, OK, summer term, because work work is especially crazy during the summer. OK, I'm going to have the option to stay full time or part time over the year.


Ben, I want to know, what's the long term goal for you professionally or do you want to be five, 10 years? Now, what's the dream job? Yeah, it's a good question, so I've been really interested in business development, leadership coaching, executive consulting, management consulting, but one of the things that I'm doing right now, I'm working directing it for for a company that's involved in academic and conferences and that sort of thing. I'm realizing that mixing management with not only business but but with technology, it's a strong thing for me.


That's something I might want to go into more. This job has kind of taught me that and showed me that. All right.


Now, I don't want you to hear something that I'm not saying, but I am going to ask. This might make Chris uncomfortable, but it'll be good for him.


Oh, Will this is it possible that this current job is a better ladder for you and get you further down the path than you actually going to get the degree?


Well, that is a little voice in the back of my head. OK, well, it's the little voice saying I'm trying to figure out, yeah. The little voice and saying I have to switch my degree to really make it worth it. Right now, I'm doing an undergrad in psychology and then I want to go into a master's of management or an MBA. But I want to take it from a psychology, not just a commerce approach. I'm realizing that might not directly serve me as much, especially as I go into more technology.


Do you have a ladder? Has this company in the leadership over you had any kind of conversation with you where they've shared a vision of, hey, Ben, if you stay with us and you're doing a great job, you do this. This is what a ladder looks like for you that has that conversation happened.


So this company is a it's a like it is in management, in terms of management, it's it's a religious organization and actually the salary cap and under that cap. So so there is that's that's meant to be not the you know, that's not the motivator.


Sure. Yeah.


But I'm not necessarily talking about money. I'm saying is there an opportunity to grow in your influence or leadership to where maybe two, three years from now you springboard from that organization into what you ultimately want to do or getting closer to what you want to do somewhere else?


Hmm. I think that what would be most likely is that the company itself will actually grow. They're looking to make new hires and so something might might end up happening where things grow kind of with me as well, alongside me or beneath me and so forth.


Well, here's my here's my take. Chris, you jump in. I don't know if you disagree with me or not. I think it would be fun if you did. If you don't, it's kind of boring. But here's the deal. I think that college. Is is something that you should do if it is the best way or the only way. The best way or the only way to get where you want to go, and I'm not sure you've answered that question, I'll leave that for you to answer yourself.


I think you're capable of doing it. If if you feel like it is something you should do and it is a the best way, then I'm fine with you taking a couple of semesters off for longer and keep working. Stack the money up college. You still going to be there, not falling behind because you're actually working in the field. So in this situation, Chris, I'm OK with him just pausing college until he gets enough cash and then he goes back there because he's in a really good situation.


Yeah, no, I don't think he has to go now, Ben. I don't think you have to go either. I think what this is a matter of you have keyed in on something on the IT side as well as the management, the leadership side that is really untapped. Typically, you'll have people that are in it and they're good with a computer, but necessarily not so good with the people or the business side of it. You worked before going to school, my friend.


So you come at this with a little bit more level of maturity and a little bit more level of clarity and what it is you're trying to do. I don't want you to buy a fake bill of goods, meaning just because you got your undergrad, other doors are going to pave the way and they're just going to naturally open. I firmly believe it is about the people you know and how you treat and how you grow. So it may not be something that you necessarily need to do.


However, if you're not clear, I don't think there's anything wrong with you working hard and saving up some money. Maybe you take the semester off, maybe you decide to go in and go the Sigma Six Sigma or another level of that on the computer side as opposed to just undergrad. But I want you to be intentional about where Coleman was. Ask you where it is you want to be in five to ten years. And that's up the sit down and really think about because that's out there a little bit, buddy.


And I want you to have the audaciousness, the audacity to dream big and then figure out reengineer it and go. What do you say, Kent? Who do I need to meet? Where do I need to be?


Tell to me, baby, you know, here's what he said. His dream is to be in business development for himself, essentially consulting, you know, for organizations. And so in this technology leadership role that he's in, he's melding two things that he said he was. It comes out turns out that this this combination of being in technology and also in management is something that I'm really good at. And you could also hear his voice change. The course went up.


He enjoys it. So here's what I'm looking at for Ben and anybody else that's in this situation. Does this experience in the in the real world?


Advance his growth and ultimately advance the plan more so than college in that situation. Take it.


Yeah, but don't feel the stigma like, oh, I'm a college dropout or. But here's the deal. If he wants to go to college, it's going to be there. So that's really where you called me. I was like, OK, I don't have the money right now. So I would tell you, man, you're successfully employed right now. You're growing, you're getting great experience and you're making money. Stack the money till college. Pause And if you decide to go back to college, it's still going to be there.


So you shouldn't feel any pressure. And that was the point of your call. No pressure, man. You've got some wonderful options ahead of you and you've got a wonderful future ahead of you. I think you've got a great head on your shoulders and you know what you want to do. And see, that's a big deal. That's a big advantage. So really proud of it.


And I want you to remain allergic to debt. That's the most important thing. Ben, I don't want you to take on student loan debt to think you're going to fast forward anything. Well, listen, I want to thank all of you for tuning in. I want to thank all the callers for taking the time to call in. I want to thank producer James Giles, associate producer Kelly Daniel, for helping to make the show happen and can't I'm even going to thank you for being here.


This feel so warm right now. You should be very sincere. I'm going to hug you at the break. Oh, boy. This has been the Dave Ramsey Show.


Hey, it's Kelly, associate producer and phone screener for The Dave Ramsey Show. This episode is over. But if you heard about an event, product or service, it didn't have a chance to write it down. Don't worry. We list everything you've heard about during this episode in the podcast. Shout out or head to Dave Ramsey, dot com. Thanks for listening.


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