Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the. This is the Dave Ramsey Show to America, hands out to have a conversation about why. Dreams relationship. The mental emotional health talking about it all. I'm Ken Coleman, host of The Ken Coleman Show, which is a part of the Ramsey network, joined by my colleague, Dr. John Deloney, host of The Dr. John Deloney show, also a part of the Ramsey network.

And we're here together to talk about all of those topics with you to listen. To guide, to cheer you on, there is a better future coming, I promise we're handing out hope at an alarming rate. We don't ask for it back. It's certainly no interest free. No, it's free. Eight two five five two two five eight eight two five five, two, two, five. Let's start it off this hour in Atlanta, Georgia. Sara joins us.

Sara, how can we help? Hi, thanks for having me. Sure.

I have a question for Dr. Morrone. So a few years ago, after I had given birth to my first child, I was sent a message and found out that I had a brother that I didn't know existed. And, you know, once I confronted my parents. I don't think I was ever going to be told, and it's just kind of went away. Nobody wants to talk about it and I've just had a really hard time struggling with it ever since.

And I just kind of don't really know how to move forward. I mean, I know you say forgive and forget, but I can't even.

Oh, no, you don't. You don't forget, Sarah. You forgive, right? Right. So why did they not tell you about this brother?

I think there's a lot of reasons. The problem is that you kind of get two different stories, I think, and I think I've kind of piece it together in my head. But it was you know, it was before my parents ever met. So, you know, it was on the side or anything like that. It was it was before that. So, you know, he didn't have a relationship with my father after they met, really after we were born.

We never knew he never came around. And my parents just kind of say, you know, that that is over. And he had a father who raised him and that's not a part of our life and basically get over it.

So how can I help you? What are you struggling with? I'm going to try not to cry. Well, a couple of things.

Reconciling. The father that I love and we have always been very close to with this man who I found out as a child that he has no relationship with, not just kind of all the men that I knew. And then also, on the other hand, I've been pretty much given an ultimatum by my mother that I cannot speak to him. I cannot have anything to do with him, that that will ruin our family. That will be my fault.

Wow. So. Wow, there's a lot here. Two things, one is can obviously weigh in. One, yeah, the person you thought your dad was is different.

Yeah. You thought he was a person of X caliber of X integrity of X past, and you found out that that was incorrect. I will tell you that most parents, most of the time are doing the best they can with the tools they have at the time they make decisions. That doesn't make it right.

That doesn't make it not painful or not hurtful. Sometimes that takes the edge off, whether it's evil or not.

OK, I don't know your dad. That's between you and him. So that's number one.

Number two, I wholeheartedly, with all of my heart and mind and soul and body and spirit, reject the idea that I've got a brother out there that I'm forbidden to talk to.

Right. OK, that's putting you in a I'm not in the business of talking bad about people's moms, but that puts you in a position that is unfair, is not right. And I'm sorry that happened to you because nobody should be put in that position, period.

OK, right. For whatever reason.

And we could probably talk for a couple of weeks on this deal that your brother is a source of shame and frustration and embarrassment to your mom and dad. And the way they have chosen to handle that is to pretend it doesn't exist. Right. And that's not a mature way of handling it.

That's not an adult way of handling it, but that's the way they have chosen to do it. What you have to do is to choose how you want to handle it. And what I'm telling you right now is if I have a brother that I find out exists somewhere.

I will be on the phone, I will be on an airplane, I will have an open front door tomorrow. OK, so I can't tell you what to do, I'm going to tell you what I would do. I can tell you that I would recommend all adults having hard conversations with one another.

So if you haven't told your dad how you feel, asked him why he didn't tell you where his heart is, tell him how you're hurting, but yet you meet with him and hold him hostage. I'm going to tell you, you need to be better than that, OK?

I'm going to war with your dad doesn't help anybody.

It just leaves a pile of bodies.

OK, Sarah, I just want to ask you a quick question about your dad. I know that there's this story from your dad's life you didn't know about, but. Was your dad a good dad to you the best? Yes. Do you have a great relationship with your dad prior to this information coming out? Did you have a great relationship?

Yes.

So I'm just going to tell you that I don't think he's a different guy all of a sudden. I just think you found out a part of his life that you didn't know about. But that does not discount the fact that he was an awesome dad to you, that he still is an awesome dad to you and he's ashamed of what happened, but his shame did not change his fathering of you.

You just said he was awesome. So here's a dude who was hurting. Deeply. Yet still Father GGU greatly, I don't think that changes anything that we might take, and so I think I do what John says, but I think you do it with just a sense of I'm kind of confused and hurt him a little bit, but not right, OK. A lot of my point is, is that is that. So is he. And yet he still was a great dad to you, and he still is, and he still can be.

That would be my only comment as I listened then. I think you've got to be careful now with Mom. Mom is scared and Mom is putting an ultimatum on you because she doesn't want this thing to come back up. And it surfaced without her permission. It surfaced without her knowing about it.

She's trying to tamp it down. I think it's still honor her pain and do what John said. But don't let her ultimatum stop you. But I'm can tell you something right now, Grace and Mercy, all the times your dad gave you grace and mercy, now it's time for you to pay him back.

Yes. And it's been a long time, a long time to do that. And I just kind of had to bury it for a while before I was ready to deal with it. But you know that to me. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, wanted to meet and have a relationship, but then, you know, so how do I move forward with that like other things happen. Sarah, Sarah, I tell you what we're going to do.

We're going to put you on hold if you willing to hold on through the commercial break. We're going to come back. We're going to pick this up. Dr. Delany's going to tell you how to move forward with this. So hang in there. This is going to help a lot of people appreciate your courage. We're coming right back to Sarah and more of the Dave Ramsey Show. Around here, we're always looking for ways to save money. That's why I am a huge fan of Honey.

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Real life happening on the radio here on the day ramshaw Ken Coleman, joined by my colleague, Dr. John Deloney. And as we went into our last commercial break, we were on the line with Sarah in Atlanta. And this is pretty messy stuff, pretty heavy stuff. And so what we do here on the Dave Ramsey Show is we'll keep on going. That's right. So we're bringing her back. John, tell our listeners who've just joined us where we were with Sarah and she's rejoining us.

So, Sarah, make sure I've got this right. You had your own baby.

You found out a few years after having your kid that you have a brother that you didn't know was out there. And you are interested, as most of us would be, in connecting with your brother. And you've got two heart challenges. No. One, you're struggling with a dad who loved you, who was a great father to you, but that held this deep secret that you never knew about, that kept you from blood relationships. And you're wondering who is he?

Can I trust him?

Is he the man I thought he was? And you're also wrestling with a mom who's giving you an ultimatum, which is we're going to go on as a family, as though our brother, your brother doesn't exist. And if you reach out to him, I'm done with you, too.

Yes. So hearing that recap from a neutral third party, a couple of guys you just met, how does that sound back to you?

Oh, so many, so many emotions just is sure that it will be that easy to tell me that. So here's a couple of suggestions that I want you to think through, following up with what Ken said and he was very, very wise here. We live in a culture that is one and done. That is you get one mistake and you can't work here anymore.

You can't be in my family anymore. You can't come to my church anymore. We are a one and done culture.

And quite frankly, I'm sick of it because most people are doing the best they can with what limited blunt tools they've got in their toolkit.

And most of us got our tools from our parents who are trying the best they could, and they got them from their parents and so on.

And so the question you have, and it's really an easy either or for you is do you want to forgive your dad? Do you want to have a hard conversation with him and say, I'm interested in learning about why you did what you did? He might not be able to tell you. I'm interested in all of the wonderful, great father attributes you had, but I'm struggling with this one thing, and that's you being vulnerable in relationship with him and giving him a chance to talk for himself.

And then you have a decision to make. Do I want that man in my life help him in his grand grandchild's life or not? It's an either or thing. And I wish it could be simple and it is simple. I wish it could be pain free. All of those options are going to hurt Sarah. They're all going to be hard. The second thing is you've got to decide, are you going to call your mom's bluff or not?

Are you going to not reach out to your brother because she has shown she can wipe somebody clean off her slate and be done with them, right? Yes. Most of the time when parents make threats like that, I smile and say, go meet your brother. Your mom's not going to do that to you.

Your mom's done it before it could happen. I don't think it will. But it could happen. Just knowing that the deep shame, deep pain that your mom feels around him is a real.

Right. So do I tell her that's a decision for you? I'm somebody who doesn't live my life with secrets. I don't like to live my life behind closed doors. I don't need it.

I also I also don't wander into fires unnecessarily. So maybe you call your brother, you get to talk to him, you get to meet him, you get to know him. And that doesn't have to be something that you immediately hang up the phone and call mom and say, ha ha, guess what I did just to rub your nose in it.

But I also am never in the business of lying to my mom and dad.

So what do you want out of this, Sarah?

What would be an ideal situation? I'm someone who loves family and loves everyone. I'm a I'm a type, I'm a help and I make people happy. I like to open my home and have dinner and everyone enjoying each other. And I just know that that's not a possibility in this situation. So I don't even know. I just, I guess, want it to be OK for me to have children that I have and be able to do what I want without being told what I have to do and that I'm the one who is going to make this into the bad situation.

What I didn't ask for.

So, Sarah, how old are you? In my 30s.

OK, well, great avoidance there. That was excellent. So I want you to imagine what your mom said to you, what your mom did to you as she hyperthyroid you a giant cinder block and you caught it with two hands.

And she told you if you put this on the ground, everything falls apart, it's your fault, and I want you to know that's inaccurate. Don't carry that brick, put it down. And then the second thing I want you to do is I want you to grieve the loss of the picture you had of your family because it's now over. There's a period at the end of that. I'd recommend getting a couple of friends that you trust and literally have a ceremony.

It's over. And then you can be about making what your new family is going to look like, you get to choose on this end who's going to be a part of it.

Well, that's going to your brother was going to your mom, your dad. You get to make those decisions affirmatively. But if you don't grieve the end of what that picture was, your brain's going to keep chasing it. You can get anxious. You're going to have that low level depression, that low level things aren't right. It's going to be a low level fire that burns throughout your living room for the rest of your life until you end that picture.

Right. Right. Right.

John, I have a question for you on behalf of Sarah. Yeah.

Would it be helpful for her to meet with her dad separately? Absolutely. 100 percent knows the whole back story.

Yep. And it's probably going to give it the give her all the details to try to understand why Mom is so wanting to keep this separate. Would that help Sarah understand Mom's pain? Yes. And why not? It's not cool that mom did what she did. But we also want Sarah I want to at least understand maybe why Mom is so sure.

Adamant. Absolutely. Sarah, would your dad have a private conversation with you? Yes. My guess is mom has directed him on what he should be doing, too.

Is that right? 100 percent.

OK, Sarah, I'm sorry. There was a lot of diesels coming out. This was your mom's biological child with another man, not your dad.

The opposite, huh? The opposite.

Oh, it's your dad, OK. Oh, it's it's your dad's biological child with a different woman. Yes. Oh, well, than OK. Now I know the answer.

OK, I and I was slightly off and that's why I asked the clarifying question. But yeah, I still think you should talk with your dad and let him express why your mom feels the way she does. And she feels like to me, John, that she that that Sarah's mom put her father in this this is how it's going to be sure.

And and she wants to have the ideal picture of relationship in her head, and she wants to keep that facade going as long as she can. Yeah. Sarah, I'm going to recommend you tell your dad a few weeks out that you're going to come over to his house or you invite him to your house.

If you can do this civilly, you're going to go meet in a restaurant.

And I want you to write out what you want to accomplish from that meeting. Going to beat up your dad for something that happened 20, 30 years ago is not going to be helpful. Going there and just being angry isn't going to be super helpful. Being angry is OK. That just points you towards something that you care about. Right. But being being a hurricane in that meeting is not going to be fruitful or helpful.

You're going to walk away frustrated. Yeah.

Showing up that meeting with some ideas on what you want to accomplish, what you want to get from, and wanting to listen to your dad's heart and making sure he he hears your feelings because they are valid and then follow up with your brother.

And then, John, we only got a minute here, but I'm just I mean, what if she finds out that, you know what, she wants to meet this brother, she wants to meet this this half brother. I get it. But if mom's not in a place for that, you know, is it OK to look at the timing of that and go, we got to try to mom and I got to reconnect. We got to get to a point where mom understands why I want to do it, not just go do it.

That's my concern. I don't want to ruin the relationship with mom because mom's unhealthy. And what I what I think is happening here is Mom's making the ultimatum. I agree. So Mom's the one who's going to hold the consequence of this relationship. And I don't want Sarah's mom, her relationship, her mom to be totally destroyed. I would preach patience to Sarah on meeting the brother, but I think I think their relationships fractured now, no question, because of the ultimatum.

It's a sticky situation. Will be praying for you, Sarah. Yeah. Thank you for trusting us.

Thank you for calling. All right, folks.

That's what we talk about. That's real life. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Listen, there are some basic things that you should be doing to take care of your family, a roof over their head, food to eat, a car to get you from A to B and term life insurance, term life insurance is an immediate need no matter where you are in the baby steps, since your family is at no greater risk than when you're in debt.

The only place I send you for this is to Zander Insurance. They shop all the top insurance companies and they're committed to serving you. That's why I use them and have recommended them for over 20 years. Go to Zanda Dotcom are called eight hundred three, five, six, 42, 82. It's where real life happens, one caller at a time, it is the Dave Ramsey Show and Ramsey personality Ken Coleman, host of The Ken Coleman Show on the Ramsey network.

He is Dr. John Deloney Ramsey, personality host of The Dr. John Delaney Show on the Ramsey network, the Dr. John Dulaney show about tell him it's about life, relationships, marriages, parenting, mental health challenges. It's a caller driven show where real people call in with real issues, real things going on in life, and we walk through it together.

And the Ken Coleman show is about connecting your personal mission and your professional vision. You're sick and tired of being miserable on Monday mornings. You live in life just to get to happy hour. On Fridays, you can drink your face off and all the misery you've dealt with through the week. Do you long to actually do something in your work that matters deeply to you and make good money?

What we're talking about living and working on purpose on the Ken Coleman show.

So we're going to combine those two shows with the baby steps and Dave Ramsey's financial piece and the money. And we're going to talk about it all eight to five five two two five eight eight two five five two two five. Speaking of money.

Let's get real for a second. Some of you have been walking through Dave Ramsey baby steps, you're getting really close to baby step for now. All of a sudden you're going, oh, my gosh, I'm going to get to the point, John, where I can and I can invest 15 percent of my income for retirement. I'm not sure what to do. I've been head down the whole way. Well, I've got a ton of questions. You're not alone.

And the trick is to make sure that you get with an investing professional, like our smart investor pros, they can answer all of your questions in plain English, exactly how Dave would tell you, because we vet them and they're going to have a heart of a teacher. So you need to know what you're doing. Sit down and work with a smart pro who knows how to take care of you and guide you to your toward your financial future. They make investing easy to understand.

So never again should you be nervous about investing. Never again should you wonder if you're going to retire wealthy, do something about it. Text the word, invest the word is invest. Text it to three three seven eight nine. That's three three seven eight nine. And get connected with a smart Vesterbro and start building wealth today. All right, let's go back to the phones. Sacramento, California is where we're going to go. TJ is on the line there.

TJ, how can we help?

Hi, Dr. Coleman. Hi, Dr. Don. Thanks for having me. It's very exciting. I finally got called Dr. Coleman, but, T.J., I've yet to actually achieve this lofty status. But thank you just for a moment. One time. Good. It felt very good, T.J. You don't have to go to church for the rest of the month, brother. You have done your good deed itself. Congratulations. Yeah. Kelly, I'll get your address and I'll send a very nice check to you after the call for that contribution.

Hey, T.J., how can I help?

Yeah, so I'm from California. I just turned 21 last Wednesday. And that's so. And unfortunately, I chose today before I found out you guys like I just decided to be a kinesiology exercise science major. And that's what I wanted to do, was be a physical therapist. But now that I figured out that you're Tanno and how much one hundred thousand dollars a day isn't worth it, I don't really know what else to do. But I'm going to come out of with my undergrad degree with zero.

That very nice way to go, T.J.. So because of my parents. Good for your parents. Yeah, yeah.

Let's give some love to TJ's mom and dad. So, T.J., let me get caught up here on the details. So you're about ready to graduate with the undergrad degree in what?

Kinesiology exercise?

OK, great. And you've done your research. And for you to move into the physical therapy, it's going to cost you too much more money. You don't want to go into it. It's going to take you too long because you would have to cash flow it.

Yeah, I would have to go take out loans of like 100000. Whoa. OK, all right.

So tell me why you're interested in being a physical therapist and why kinesiology really fires you up.

OK, so I like the body, but I like the body. I like how it works. I like learning my anatomy. And I enjoy like sports. I love soccer like and it's just seeing that helping people, but with the with the body and with like their activity here, it just seems like a good thing to me. All right. Let me ask you this.

If I waived the hundred thousand dollars and this is the grad degree, is that what you're talking about, to actually qualify?

If I waived that, would you jump, run, do somersaults jumping jacks on the way to becoming a physical therapist?

Yes. OK, so here's what we got to figure out. How do we cash flow or how do we get into the industry? How do we step in now and start making money and save up the money and cash flow your way there because you're only twenty one. So it is still doable for you. I guess what I want you to hear for me is that, yes, you're absolutely right. We don't want you to go into debt for this.

It won't be worth it because then you're going have to dig your way out instead of enjoying the work. But what if you put it off for three to four years? And when I say put it off, I just simply pause and we get the money necessary and we cash flow away through it and we can take that kinesiology degree and at least get in the field and get some really valuable experience. I think that's the path for you. But do you understand what I'm saying?

You see that path?

Yes. So I would I would after I graduated, I would get a job and work. Yeah. And work and work and try and save. Yeah. And then and then pay for the school.

Yeah. My question is, with your career services there at college, have you looked into what are some entry level jobs, what are some jobs that with that kinesiology degree you can actually step right into the marketplace and start working? Have you looked into that?

No, not particularly. That's homework assignment number one. OK, what does that kinesiology degree qualify you to do? Because that's where we want to go, because you enjoy working with the body. You like how it works. You love the physical health side of things. You're a you're. Probably a caregiver, a guy that really likes to to help people go from pain to free from pain.

So I would start there at T.J. a couple of things. I'm going to add to it what Ken said. I will give a shout out. I want to.

I had both of my knees worked on last summer to the point that I was unable to walk. And the saint, that is Dr. Morgan Springer here in Nashville was my physical therapist. And she worked with me from I couldn't get up to where I was running and jumping.

But, you know, you know who else helped me? A XRT undergrad graduate named Bree Melton. Bree did not have a physical therapy degree. She did what Ken said. She went and found she's a former college athlete. She went and found a job with physical therapists. She worked side by side and she was super helpful to me as well. And that would give you three or four years of ringside experience.

And here's the second part. You are locked in a California system.

I want you to look nationwide. Yes. Nationwide for a program that costs less than 100000 dollars, there will be a program in the United States that will get you a degree. You may have to move. You may have to spend some time in Nebraska that Abramski years. You may have to do it right. But I want you to research programs night and day like it's your second or third job and find programs that within 36 months you have enough money saved up and then you're out there getting that degree.

Yeah, you can help people walk again, brother, because it happened to me and you can get there with a bachelor's degree on the way. T.J., I'm going to tell you about a little principle called the proximity principle came out of the Ken Coleman show. And it says, in order to do it, T.J. wants to do physical therapy. He's got to be around people that are doing it and in places where it is happening. And so what John's telling you is, is what is what we're saying together is that that kinesiology degree will get you in the field and you will work alongside a physical therapist and you will learn so many valuable things, even more valuable things than you learned in the classroom.

And you're going to make good money. You're going to work extra shifts. Maybe you work for two or three different places and you hang out where other physical therapists are hanging out, whether they be online communities and conventions. And eventually when all that starts firing up again and you're making all these connections so that when you've got the money saved up, as John told you, you're going to get qualified and opportunities will be waiting on you. Waiting on you.

Yeah. So, my brother, you've got a path here. I'm so glad you called. Don't go into debt. It's going to be so worth it because you're going to be working alongside of other physical therapist who are 100 grand plus in debt.

And you're going to be debt free, maybe a couple of years old, but you're a whole lot wealthier. So that is really, really, really fun. T.J. Don't be discouraged. Get determined, John. Great stuff. They're wonderful. If you're willing to go anywhere in the country, trust what you can do. It teaches you never know. He's going to do it some some great physical therapy firm, you know, might say, hey, we'll pay your way through lots of options here.

So the future's bright. T.J., thank you so much for the call. And another shout out for TJ's mom and dad, because T.J. is getting ready to graduate debt free. He's already a unicorn. Good stuff. Hey, don't move more. The Dave Ramsey Show coming right up. This is the Dave Ramsey Show, Coleman, Dr. John Maloney joining me this hour as we take your calls, triple eight to five, five to five today. Scripture, be strong and let your heart take courage.

All who wait for the Lord, Psalm 31 24, our quote of the day. Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak. Courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen that from the great Winston Churchill.

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We're going to go to Las Vegas now. Regina joins us there. Regina, how can we help?

Hi. Good day, gentlemen. It's great to talk to you both. Good to talk with you. What's up? All right. So currently I'm on baby step one again. My only dad is my car, which is about seven thousand dollars. I am in litigation. It's a litigation battle over the custody of my daughter that's spanned about a decade. My attorney fees are in excess of six thousand dollars and they're growing. The case started pre covered and it's supposed to end in November.

I'm in the process of changing careers into cybersecurity and I'm basically going to do this debt free. Of course, I'm kind of taking about six months to get the degree online. My goal is to basically obtain this new career and a bigger shovel, of course, for my future and my daughter's future. So my outlook is I anticipate these core issues to continue and to continue until my daughter is about eighteen. So my question to you, Dr. G, is what do I say to my ten going on?

Forty daughter when she repeats things that was said in court. That is not truthful. And my question to you can is do I complete this degree and make the move to a new career or wait and see what the court attorney bill is and pay it off first?

All right. I'm going to take my first is faster. Yeah, OK.

You want to go into cybersecurity and it's only going to take you six months. And these these court fees are kind of ongoing. And so cybersecurity is one of the fastest growing professions in the country and I would guess around the world. So I would tell you, yes, cash flow your way through this and get that training so that you can move into that, because that's going to give you the bigger shovel that you're going to need to handle the increased costs of of this court battle.

OK, John, I got some mixed signals here, so you've been in a custody hearing for a decade or your daughter is a decade old? She's 10 years old.

I've been in a litigation battle over custody of my daughter for ten years, and she's ten years old, going on 40, as she says. Why are you here for her age?

Why in the world is there a 10 year custody battle going on?

That's probably a whole nother show. But to be quite honest, I'm dealing with multiple personalities on the other side of this case, multiple personalities in a single person order.

Yes, sir. And the court's not recognizing a significant, serious mental disorder.

They refuse to recognize it. I've had a series of judges that it just seems to rotate and nobody gets the clear picture no matter how I painted. And the attorneys don't seem to be capable. Well, the attorneys are there.

I mean, they're just going to take your money as long as this case goes on. They they all keep winning.

There's one person dying on the vine here.

Yes, there is. And that's my biggest problem. How do we wrap this up yesterday, or is it impossible, almost impossible. I just need your input on what I should say to my daughter when something comes from her that has been said in court that it's not the truth. What do I say to her? Do I correct it? Do I not correct it? Do I just give it an age appropriate answer? I just don't know where to turn sometimes because I don't want to cause more conflict and I really want to maintain my daughter's relationship with me.

It's very fractured.

Well, of course, that's right. She's only known war. So what you're asking is when she's in court and somebody says something about her or about her living situation that she knows to not be true, you're asking me, what should you tell her?

She's been coached and she's been told what has happened in court and it's not truthful. So I just don't know if I should, at 10 years old, say to her. Here's the tape. You listen to it or should I not even address it or how should I address it?

So there are attorneys who are coaching your daughter to say things the ex-husband is actually doing that he's actually doing OK?

Yeah, yeah. There's a lot here. At the end of the day, you're. Yeah, you're poor baby girl.

You're going to have to walk a tightrope between trash and her dad, which you cannot do under any circumstances.

That's her father understood.

With the idea that she is having to have some serious cognitive dissonance that 10 year olds shouldn't be working through because she's trying to love this guy. She's trying to love you, and she's getting yanked back and forth, back and forth. So, yes, you tell the truth to your daughter in a way that she can hear it. Ten year olds can absorb and feel and understand way more than adults think they can. And I would be honest with her.

I would also be adamant that she tell the truth at all times and that she knows it's OK to tell the truth.

Regina, are you concerned about her safety when she's with your ex?

Yes. Have you filed the concern?

I, I it has been an ongoing issue. And as I said, it should be another whole conversation. So I just need to know how to address this particular issue. It all has been addressed over the decades, but sure, over the decade. I just this is what's current and this is how I'm having this is my biggest trepidation with her.

Yeah. It's it's it's helpful to use words like somebody is sick versus they are evil. It's helpful to use words like, I know this is hard and be extra extra intentional about eye contact and physical touch with your daughter. Make sure she knows that she is connected and loved. Make sure that she knows on a daily basis, if not multiple times a day, that she was born into a land at war. That is not her fault, because what she's going to spend the rest of her life doing is trying to backfill what she contributed to this nonsense.

Understood. And so you have to be hyper proactive in making sure she knows she's worthy and connected. Right. And I'm not blaming you. It is what it is.

No, no, I understand. But I also I cannot I cannot recommend enough that you do what you can on your end.

And I know you are to wrap up this wrap up this season of war for this girl and let her begin to start healing.

And everybody out there who's in some sort of divorce proceedings can some sort of separation. If we are watching the data, divorce is running through this post, this current and post covid world like wildfire.

Remember these kids and these these separations, these fights, these disagreements rage through hearts and minds for generations and be weary of letting your kids be sacrificed in the name of these type of fights.

You know, it's tough, heartbreaking.

It's a whole lot more behind this story that we obviously don't have time to get to. Tough stuff. And we hurt for you, Regina. We really do.

And I the only thing I would say is I know there's a whole lot there. I would look to potentially get a different lawyer, maybe get, you know, social services, something else involved here. There's got to be some closure because she's concerned about safety, says you don't want to stop the fight. All right. But at the same time, there's not any headway here. That's really discouraging. So keep your head up.

Do not quit the fight. Do not. Yeah, not for that baby girl. Yeah. Love it. Dr. John Delany, always good being with you, sir. Thanks for hanging out. I want to thank our producer, James Childs, our associate producer, Kelly Daniel. I also want to thank Dave Ramsey for letting us play in the sandbox. Always great fun to talk to you. America, this is your show. It is The Dave Ramsey Show.

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