Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dallas Kamata studio. The Dave Ramsey Show where America hangs out to have a conversation about your life. Your relationship, your mental health. And when Dr. in our own even your daily questions, my name is Anthony O'Neil, joining me on this, our co-host on this show together, Dr. John Delany. And we are excited to really just talk to you about any area of your life. So give us a call.

Kelly is standing by eight eight two five five two two five eight eight two five five two two five. The phone lines are ringing off the chain right now. But, Kelly, we'll get to you as soon as you possibly can. And Ali's going out to Provo at Monsanto, right?

Yes. Hello, Utah. Provo, Utah. Have a conversation with Mary.

Good afternoon, Mary. How today? And I hope he Anthony and after you.

First of all, thank you for taking my call today. I was a senior in high school right now. And this coming week is because it's so weak. It's also college week. And so I guess some colleges come to the school. And as part of that, they're asking the children for seniors, seniors, not so much children anymore. And she's my oldest. So it's going to have to do this with all the other ones. So I'm a little nervous asking them to fill a soft spot where it has a lot of sensitive information on it.

And when I try to look it up, it sounded like it was for loans and that shouldn't be worried. And I was wondering if you could explain what it is.

And this is something I need to be worried about or what's going on in the FASFA forms or forms that colleges use there.

They're basically your your financial aid for most colleges have switched over the last few years. In fact, I don't know any college doesn't do this. They also use these forms for scholarship information. And so if you back up years ago, scholarships used to be a reward for what happened in high school. And investment in a student coming to our campus is going to bring your academic credentials to our campus, your abilities.

You're going to bring your athletic abilities, any number of your robotics abilities, any number of things over the last, I'd say, ten years or so, maybe fifteen years, scholarships have switched to being a reward and a incentive, and now they are a marketing tool.

And so a college will use your FASFA to find out how much you could pay. So think about it. If you went to a car dealership and before you start negotiating, they knew how much you could actually pay. They knew much you made how much was in your wallet, how much land you owned, all that stuff.

And then they take that and they don't want to leave any money on the table. So they're going to try to give you just enough scholarship money that you'll go there, but not one dollar more than you might be able to contribute. And so the unfortunate thing is the FASFA is used by most schools to determine not only your financial aid eligibility, but also scholarship information. So you're going to have to fill that stuff out. It's going to be up to you to fill out those loans.

At the end of the day, I do have I know a number of financial aid folks across the country. I've never met somebody that's not in good character. So I wouldn't worry about them selling urine for, I mean, doing nefarious things with your information, leaving in the parking lot, things like that.

It's going to be up to you to decide to not take a loan or not. They will give you financial aid packages that include all sorts of somersaults and cartwheels worth of loans. And it's can be up to you all to not take those the scholarship numbers, which are going to have to look at. But, yes, you're going to have to that's just a part of the process nowadays. Unless you are planning on writing a cheque outright, you're not worried about scholarships or anything like that, and then you don't have to fill out a FASFA.

Yeah.

Mary, have you read my book, Debt Free Degree?

We have no idea what she should be asking them as they're coming to her school. Yeah. Yes, good question.

This one do to do when we hang up the phone. I want you to hate when we get off, I want you to hang on. Kelly will get on the phone with you and get your information. I'm going to send you a copy of my book, Get Free Degree, because in this book I literally have a whole chapter on Fastweb. And just so you know, FAFSA stands for Free Application for Federal Student Aid.

And so I recommend to everyone you fill it out and when you fill it out, that you will get letters, you will get confirmation saying you've been approved for a loan, you're going to you're going to decline those. And one of the key reasons why I say fill it out is because not only does it go towards scholarships, because, of course, grants and even work study programs as well. And so the work study programs is where how your child can get into the school and also work onto the campus, because if he qualifies or she qualifies for that, that's how they know from FASFA.

So FASFA has ups and it has downs and the downs are the loans. But the UPS, it really helps you set it up, so I want you to get my book and I want you to read it and I want you to have your kids read it as well. It's called debt free degree. And when they come to the school, how is how is it?

Is a male or female? Is your son or daughter is going to school right now.

So I have both girls and boys, but my senior is a girl, OK? I have a 10th grader, has a son and then my other two are girls.

How are your grades right now? They're really good. Last year, last term of last year, she got all A's and minuses.

OK, so she's got around three point five now, OK, because she's running around a 3.0 average. OK, so right now what I would be asking her is here's what I'm. The question is not what are you all asking the schools? The question is, what are you asking your daughter? And what are you telling your daughter? There you go. She's listening right now. Yeah, I need you go in another room. Oh, there you go.

Look at me. Let me look in this camera right here. What I want you to do is go home and not go home. When we get off of this, get off of YouTube, go down there, talk to your mom. And what I want to do is ask your mom, mom, what can you and my dad do to help me get into school? And then you're going to take that information that you're going to come back the next day and you're going to tell your mom and dad, this is what I'm going to do.

I'm going to get a part time job or I'm going to apply to this this many schools. But y'all need to have the conversation of w a budget.

What can we afford? And then from there, Mary, when you go to the schools, you already know, hey, we can afford this. This is inside of our budget. This is inside of what we need to be doing. So stay on the line. Kelly will pick up. She will get you a copy of my book, Debt Free Degree. I got to say, I love talking about it. It was a number one national bestseller.

And so they will answer all the questions. It will give you every single thing that you need to know to get your young person in school not to be. You are from the school industry. You've you've worked in it for years and years and years. Is it possible for young people to go to school debt free?

Yes, you got to you've got to be intentional. And you got a plan. Yeah. Got to be intentional and you got a plan. You really do.

And that's one thing I love about the book, Debt Free Degree. When I sit down with Dave and our team say, hey, I don't want to write a fluff book, I don't want to write a book that's about a bunch of encouragement. I needed a plan. I needed a step by step process on how I should have went to school debt free. And this is exactly what this book is. So those of you are listening right now, go to Anthony Neal dot com and you will see the book on their purchase.

A copy right now, bless somebody or go to Amazon, go to a bookstore, because it's not about supporting me. It's about supporting you. And your futureone going to school debt free.

This is the Dave Ramsey Show. If you struggled during a normal year to pay for that time share, how big of a burden is it now? Get out of it.

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I want to thank our deejay and producer for this beautiful album. I love what our producers do that I love the music, but let's keep it going.

Jubilate 8255, 2005. We would love to take your questions and give you our honest opinion. We come from our heart. We're not experts. People say we're experts. We're just normal people who love people. And we want to help people. You all call us experts. I call myself just a young guy learning something.

And I just want to pass that knowledge on, you know, your doctor. I a genius. I'm just kidding.

I love it. So give us a call. We would love to talk to you. Not at all, my friend. And it would be a great day going to San Antonio, Texas.

We're going to have a conversation with Patrick. Patrick, good afternoon. How can doubt Teddy and I hope.

Well, I'm I'm calling in because I do believe we all are experts and geniuses. I agree, Patrick.

I agree. You can you can continue. Go ahead.

Oh, thanks for taking the call. My wife and I are blessed. We're very respectful to almost be debt free completely. But I got one question surrounding that. We're both retired now. We have a twelve thousand a month pension combined. We have about 100000 in savings. We've got about 750 in investments. We've paid off our home and our cars. We have no personal debt ever. Then we have to rent houses that are worth probably a total of about four hundred.

And the rent on them, we didn't. We're not looking to make money. We we don't charge much for them. So the rent covers the mortgage and just a little bit more. My question is they have a collective hundred thousand dollar mortgage between the two of them at three point five. And the question is, do we just continue to let the mortgages exist or do we pay them off now that we have that 100000 and we have the ability to do it or some combination in between there or wherever you all want to take us.

So let me ask you this question. What's your long term goal? So you have two rental properties, are you actually and you probably said it probably missed its let me apologize up front, but are you currently in a home with a mortgage on it as well? He's paid off his mortgage. Paid off your mortgage. Are you guys are everyday millionaires, Patrick.

Yeah, well not yet. Not yet. Because we got we got to get him out to these two rental properties. So if you take your hundred thousand dollars and you pay off the two rental properties, how much money will you have in your savings account? We'll start with zero, but we have the ability to to do between two and 5000 a month back into that savings every month. God willing.

And how much money do you need to have at least three, three to six months in your emergency account, the 30 to 60?

OK, so we need about 30000 minimum. Maxxie, you have 100000.

And you could put five grand in your mind. This is what I'm a do, I'm cool with you honestly, taking out 60, paying off, putting that towards the mortgage and taking that extra five grand you can aggressively do to pay off those two rental properties. So that way is now cash and you have it. And now that's actually generating you and your family income, because I am kind of a little skeptical with the fact you saying that the rental payments right now are actually just paying a mortgage and a little bit more.

I would love for that to see income coming in to where you honestly able to set some money aside so that what you can have money to fix it down the road. It's not coming out of your personal pocket and then it's generating you and your family income because you're in it now. Now, generally, what we recommend is you don't do you don't you don't finance rental properties. You pay cash for them after you've secured your your home mortgage. But since you're in this situation, you have two options.

You could sell them or you can just go ahead and aggressively pay them off and it just rightfully outright on them. And then from there, just like Dr. D said earlier, you are now becoming everyday millionaire. So that's what I recommend. I say go ahead and take these 60 grand out. Put that towards that. You keep the 30 grand. Yes. You're fully funded emergency fund. Keep investing. Don't stop your investing to get more money going towards that, then I would just aggressively attack those rental properties.

OK, so that's basically splitting it down the middle, right, Patrick? Yes. You're going to pay one today and then you'll pay the other one off in about six months probably.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean it would be my wife's first.

Oh. But I landed right here.

Agreeing with me is, you know, we'll tell your wife I said hello. She right there with you. Hi there. There you go. I was going to say, put you on the phone. Well, hey, he's going to take good care of you, ma'am, and enjoy this new season. I mean, you are going to be everyday millionaires. Have y'all read the book Everyday Millionaires?

No, we have not. Oh, well, you know what I mean. Do we love giving away things, especially other people's books? Yes. Other people's book. That doesn't hurt our pocket. So we're going to bless you with a copy of Chris Hogan's everyday millionaire book, because this is the next step. Once you all pay off these two rental properties, you guys are there. So stay on the line. Mr. Mrs. Patrick, I don't know your last name, your name, wife.

But Kelly, we'll get you a copy of that book. And I promise you, you all will love it. And I mean, their future is bright. Man, man.

And before you write that check to pay off that first rental home, Patrick, you're taking her to eat wherever she wants to go there in San Antonio, Texas.

Yeah. And once you pay off the last one, you'll just go take a nice little trip. Like what everyday millionaires do.

Enjoy it, you know, enjoy it.

You know, not to be, I think a lot of people. Like, for an example, I think a lot of people get this hunger like baby steps one through three, they get causalities on a pay off this debt on do this. Do that. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. To 24/7. They keep that exact same Gozal intense and probably go Luhya. And I think sometimes baby steps four through seven is. Yeah, you have to be intentional, you have to keep the energy there, but you can relax a little bit and kind of enjoy it.

You know, there's nothing wrong with, like you said, going to a real nice restaurant. There's nothing wrong with working hard to get out of debt, to have an emergency fund where now you're investing, now you're investing in your future into your kid's future and paying off your house and building wealth. And you're giving it you're being a blessing. Enjoy it for yourself a little bit as long as it's within your budget. Go on a nice vacation.

Stop eating beans and rice, rice and beans and go step up, go get you a nice piece of steak. Go do something gazelle. Intense is running for your life because you're about to die through some uncomfortable.

Yes. Death. Yes. Once that gazelle is in the clear. Yes. He's got to stop. Yes, she's got to rest. She's got to eat. Yes, she's got to find some other people to hang out with.

Right. Yes. You're not running for your life anymore. You still got to be alert because there's lions everywhere.

But now y'all can begin to migrate together and get where you're going, man.

Listen, man, I really do. And for those of you all around baby steps, one through three. Oh, yeah. Don't relax. You're running for your life. But when you're in baby steps four through seven, you're walking, you're still moving forward, you're still improving and growing.

But enjoy it. Oftentimes we get the call. I got the Dave Ramsey car. But what's the Dave Ramsey car? I was a little small beta and I not a Dave Ramsey guy. That's the car that you need in baby steps one through three. But hey, he tells you all the time, step up.

You know, once you have an emergency fund, step up to something nice.

We want you to have nice things. We want you to have goals and dreams and visions. We want you to accomplish those things. But we just want you to do it to where you're doing it the right way, you know the right way.

So do you ever get to the end of the month and have no idea where all your money went? It feels like as soon as the money comes in, it goes right back out. And I have been there. So here's the thing. If you want to take control of your money, you have to be the one to tell it where to go. That means getting on a budget, the B word, and give every dollar a specific job every single month.

And the best way to do this is with our brand new Ramsey plus membership. It gives you all the best money products, including a premium version of our budgeting app. Every dollar. That's where you make your budget, track your spending. And clearly, let me say this again, clearly see where all of your money is going. You can try all this with a free trial of Ramsey plus today and never again wonder where your money is going to start.

Is free trial you did takes three three seven, eight, nine. Takes the word begin BGN to three three seven, eight, nine. And today you will take over your money and you will start building wealth because you took control of your money today. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Going out to Syracuse, New York, is going to have a conversation with Anthony Anthony, good afternoon. How he conducts DNA, especially taking my call. I was actually just about where you're talking about the last segment.

So amongst the four or five, six, I want really intense to get there 14 months. I paid off all my debt besides the mortgage. Now that I'm free and struggling to spend money or to do things and I can kind of see like a prayer for my wife doesn't want she doesn't want to suggest to go places because I'm just going to be cheap and I make comments. I don't want to spend the money, but we have the money.

We can spend the money. I just I just I can't. Where does that come from? Was that where does that come from?

Are the cities not the cheapness that's that's a symptom, where does this control, this control challenge come from? Did you come from a house that ran out of money or did you come from a house full of accountants? Did you come from. No, I came from a house like I lost both my parents at a young age. My grandmother raised me. We never had really any money. And it's always my I think my grandmother filed bankruptcy three times in her life, credit cards.

And I was the same way. So.

So, listen, you your your heart and your mind is trying to take care of you and trying to keep you safe, because unlike most of us, your heart and mind knows what happens when you fall off the edge.

It's trying to take care of you and trying to love you, and so when your wife wants to go out to dinner, your wife wants to go on a trip, your wife wants to go to the movies. And your first impulse is, I don't want to spend that money. I want you to do this. I want you to exhale.

And I want you to say, oh, thanks, Brain. Thanks, Heart, for trying to keep me safe. But I'm good now. And then I want you to look at your wife and say where you wanna go eat. And it's going to be something that you practice like a muscle. You're going to practice teaching your heart and your mind to be safe, that you're safe because you've done it right. And you married well, you followed a plan and you're a good man.

But I want you to honor your body's just trying to take care of you. Trying to keep you safe. It's been down this road before. It's just recognizing that impulse right before you do it.

How much money do you make a year? What's your household income, Anthony?

Oh, I think we make between like a hundred and twenty five. OK, cool.

And we own our businesses, so I don't really know exactly how much I like how great and how.

But how much do you have in savings right now. Are. Probably have about 60 grand, 60 grand in savings. OK, and what would you say when your wife says, I want to go here?

Where is one place she wants to go? And you're like, I want to go get just like go out on a Saturday, so your wife is saying, I want to go get my back massage. I want to feel like a woman. I want to feel like a queen. I want to just enjoy life because we spent months just hammering after this dead. And you're saying, no, I don't want to spend a hundred dollars, even though we got 60000 in a savings account and we have another 10000 coming in this month.

You're saying no, because you want to save that money. Like, what do you what are you working towards?

That's what I'm trying to figure out and try to think of. I don't know what I'm working towards anymore. I had to plan and I was doing it. I had like 100 I think was one hundred and forty seven thousand dollars. Like, I would just watch videos every night. And then I knew exactly what I wanted to do. And like I even talked about that was like, I can't stop thinking about it. Right. I'm so focused on doing the one thing.

And now that that's done. Yeah, I like I don't know why I run my own business. And I mean, I, I'm trying to create a plan, a goal and have a mission. I just know what I'm doing. I just make money and it goes into account.

I want you're going to have to do some healing work, Anthony. And what you were able to do, how long you been married? Three years, any little ones? We just had a daughter a year ago, and she is the reason why I started paying everything off. Congratulations, man. So thank you. You are.

Think about it this way, your brain's on fire and you've got an alarm system that's been ringing, you found a plan that helped and what you were able to do for a season is to trade that fear, trade that that identity that mom and dad aren't coming home, that we don't know if the water is going to get shut off. You were able to trade that identity for a plan, a concrete proven thing. You did it and you got to the end of it.

You accomplished it. And then you realized that your identity didn't change. You were able to just to numb it. You were able to pause it for a minute.

And now you're like, oh, yeah, go ahead. Sorry. Yeah, yeah. I listen to your show, which is great, by the way, with ADHD and I have ADHD and I was talking my life and I bought the book and I've been reading that. And it kind of makes what you're just saying is like, I thought I had to focus on things and once I have that things that in my mind, that's what I want to do in my life and that's what I want to do because I hyperfocus.

That's right. Like crazy.

And if you haven't got to the end of that book, you're going to you're going to you're going to know that there's healing in the challenge. So the challenge for a scattered mind, the challenge for somebody who grew up in chaos, the challenge for somebody who grew up with trauma like you did is the only healing.

The true healing that can be done is in relationship with other people. And those are the very things that caused the wounds in the first place. And you can pause that with this incredible plan, this is what's such a gift is that husbands and wives work together and suddenly they find themselves healed, right. They find their marriage is healed. They find old wounds healed because not because of the baby step plan, but because they got to work in concert in partnership with another person towards common goal.

Yeah. And that's a hard thing to learn how to do, especially honoring your past.

And you've had a hard life, Anthony, you and you've accomplished incredible things.

And I can hear in your heart that now that you've paid off the money part of it, now you're going to do the hard, hard work, which is healing.

And your wife deserves that. You're your baby girl deserves to grow up in a non-caloric in a totally connected home. But you know who else deserves this at the bottom of everybody? You do, brother. You do.

So here's some practical things I recommend for you, Anthony, during this season of Healing is Friday. Take your wife out somewhere nice where, you know, tell her, put on something nice, ladies love to get dressed up, take it to a very nice restaurant. And when you're at that restaurant, one of the key things I heard you saying earlier is I make the money. I don't I don't know where I'm going.

I and I didn't hear we I don't know where we going. We make the money. We own the business. So I went you and your wife because I hear you. I like the fact that you had the hyperfocus. Now we just got a chain channel that hyperfocus somewhere else in the hyperfocus needs to be going towards a combined vision life. And what Dr. D said of you and your wife, Bay, where are we going? OK, we're debt free.

We got six Akane account. We make great money. We have kids. And I know I've been scared. I've been controlling that. I'm healing.

I heard Dr. D but where do we want to go? Do we want to, you know, pay off a home? Do we want to build wealth? Do we want to build a legacy like what is our legacy? What are we doing for our kids? Come up with the vision together and then that becomes a thing that you're focused on. Now you're going to feel that that need that you need to feel because it's like before I got too far baby steps, I got do the debt snowball.

I can get three months here now. It's okay. Me and my wife are going to do something that we can leave our kids with something. And so I want to say the first step practical thing that you can do right now is on this Friday night is take your wife out, you know, take your wife out, take your kids to, you know, somewhere and ask them to watch them and use your wife to spend some quality time dreaming together, crying together.

Tears come out, just get a solid vision and then come home. Right. That vision down on paper, put it up around the house and y'all focus on that vision. And by this end of this year, you need to plan a very nice vacation to take your entire family there next year.

It's it's about this notion, Anthony, of being vulnerable and getting a co partner, getting a co-pilot in this adventure and giving her permission to say when you when she feels you starting to grab control, that she's got a word she can give you, that you will go, oh, yeah, you can remember to tell your grandma grandma you came through and I'm OK. I love it. I love it. I love it. Hey, this is the day, Rammasun.

Going out to the beautiful city, New York City, New York, to have a conversation there with Chris. Chris, good afternoon. How can I help?

Hey, good afternoon. Great to be on the show. I'm a huge fan.

Oh, man. Thank you so much for calling in. How can we help Matt?

Yes. Go a little bit of a dilemma here. You know, I've got a lot of momentum going on the baby steps. I've been following Dave program for about a year now. The only debt I have left is a car. I have like 10000 lieutenant, which is going to be paid off. I'm on track to pay it off by January. My girlfriend doesn't really see eye to eye with me on the Dave Ramsey plan now that I've almost got the car paid off.

She wants me to trade in the car that's almost paid off and buy a brand new car. How long have you been dating Chris?

I don't care how long they've been dating. Six months. Six months? Yeah, brother. She doesn't get to vote, man. I thought, you know, here's the thing, like, I love her and everything else in the relationship, great. And, you know, like, I just don't know how to get her on the program. She's not like a Dave Ramsey fan. I think she's tired of hearing like Dave Ramsey show when I play it.

Yeah, I guess. Is there any advice you have to, like, try to get her on the same page? No. One, she doesn't get a vote. You'll have separate accounts, you have separate money. You've got separate money plans right now. So you keep plugging along, doing your thing. Nobody can make you get a second car. Number two, as Anthony alluded to in a different with a different caller.

If somebody is unwilling to connect with you in a values proposition. Right, if you're if you're wondering is the purpose of dating is to get to know somebody and you're starting to realize that the closer you get to the longer you're together, the more you realize your values are separate, your values are apart and bigger than whether she likes Dave or doesn't like Dave. It's a matter of trust.

It's a matter of do we share the same future visions and future goals? And right now, it doesn't sound like that. Number three, you're never going to be able to get your partner to do anything like that. How do I make them do something that's not how relationships work. That's how power structures work. And those don't work in relationships. Relationships are together. And so if you want to convince her, which is a it's an unhealthy way to go about it, you're going to have to model it and you're going to have to show how you live peacefully.

You don't worry about bills at the end of every month and you're going to have to sit down and do some vision casting together. You have to create a future together. You're going to have to say, where do we want to be? If we were to get married in a year, where would where would we want to end up where we want to live those things future building together, not just, hey, I've got some better data for you that's going to override what you want to do.

Right.

OK, yeah. Go.

Yeah. Yeah, that's that's. Thanks for calling, Chris. I guess I have low tolerance man. I could feel it on me.

I can feel it.

I mean I really do because I'm like we get these calls all the time and I love her and her and I want to force her and I'm like, OK, I get it, I get it.

I get. And here's the thing. I will say this on a day Ramsay show a woman is or anybody, a man or a woman is not below me because they do not agree. And the things that I agree with, if you don't like my path, that's fine.

I don't have to go down a path with you. Right. And I think sometimes we try to force things to happen and I could change or I could change him. How can I? You can't change someone who doesn't want to be change. So save yourself some stress. I guess I'm more like the savage side. I'm like, all right, Deuces, you want to go into debt by like you go, do you.

I'ma go do me good people, no hard feelings, but I know where I want to go with my life. And since you don't want to go down that route, that's fine. But AOH is going down this route and my wife we you should want to go down this road even without me. Hmm. That's where I believe in being equally yoked. You don't have to convince each other to do something. And I think that's just something that I think should be talked about more, especially with this younger generation, because I knocking someone falling in love within six months.

But I'm like, never mind, I'd like to say something else.

But I think it's wise. When you enter into value conversations, that data comes second in vision come first. And what I mean by that is let's take the we had the election, the first debate the other night, depending on who you ask, is it depend on who won, who lost?

We all lost. We all right.

But we start talking about. Yeah, but this data and this that in this data and that's not where you start with those conversations.

I was at a debate. I'm sorry.

Yeah, that's all right. That's probably a bad analogy. You said I was a bad analogy, brother, but at the end of the day, you're not going to convince somebody, right? By data.

Yeah, unless you're a group of scientists that are on the common mission to convince each other with data. Outside of that, you've got wives trying to convince their husbands of here's the math problem and you're missing the hurting guy in the house or vice versa.

These Anthony and Chris, Kristen, his girlfriend, need to go decide what their future is going to look like, where they want to go, and they reverse engineer that.

I guess that's part of the world. Like a lot of people always ask me, Anthony, why are you single? Well, because, I mean, I've dated and I tell people up front in a day, like you said, this is my vision and this is where I would like to go with whoever God has given me.

Sometimes when I say that that lady automatically just disappears because it's like my vision is, hey, you, I'm not doing any debt. So this means that to buy something real nice, like your dream car, it's going to take us a little while to get there because I'm a pay cash for it. That's my vision. Some people don't have patience, so they like art. Not this guy. Crazy.

He don't do it. Debt, no credit cards that are I'm a bounce, so I like what you said, you're going ahead and put the vision out there and then you collect data after that. Or the other side is this, Anthony.

I walked in to dating as an adult with a this just sounds so ridiculous and immature in retrospect with a list of 10 things. Here's the 10 things my future spouse is going to have. Oh, you know how many my wife has two of the ten.

Your wife is dope. I thought she had like eight of them. That's the thing.

I was wrong. I thought I knew in my 18, 19, 21 year old brain what 40 year old Deloney was going to want with life. And I didn't know. And so we cast vision together. And that vision changes. That vision grows together like a relationship does. And so it's about it's not always about I've got these ten things etched in concrete. You're either in or you're out for me. It's here's what I think.

I want to invite you in to what I think. And I want to hear what you think. And we're going to grow together.

Right, brother? That's good. That's good, man.

I was wrong to the tune of eighty percent. I got a twenty on that exam. All right. I got a twenty on that exam.

So to the young people listening right now. Shit they have a list.

I think it's always wise to have a guide, OK. It's always wanted to have a wise to have a guide and you shouldn't make that list in a vacuum. You should make that list with people that have been down the road. You should make that list with people who share similar values.

And you you should make that list with people you totally disagree with and then you should be open. Hold that list loosely, OK, if your value is I'm always right, you're going for a painful life. Yeah. If your value is I'm always going to seek wisdom and always look for opportunities to grow. Yeah. Your life can be much more peaceful and you're going to be a different person at the end of that trajectory. That's the gift. Right.

That's that's the joy.

That's the beauty of life. The sobre you walk in together, and that is something that I think is important. I wish. I wish there is a way. That couples, before they even got into a relationship, there was a pre relationship counseling. Because I think it could help individuals make better decisions, should we even enter into this and it'll be a healthy relationship which will lead to a healthier marriage, which will lead to a healthier life.

So here's I think this is one of the curses of our time, Anthony, is that we have tried to arawa every exchange.

Yep. Yep.

And so when somebody meet somebody and the idea is, will this work versus, hey, my name is John, who are you?

You are asking a human interaction to have an our or a benefit. And that's not what is relationships are about.

Melissa, only today, Rabbi Oshodi here. Money, money, conversations, relationship conversations, dating questions, mental health questions. Boy, another great hour. Hey, thank you all so much, America, for listening. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. This is James Chiles, producer of The Dave Ramsey Show. Once again, you made The Dave Ramsey Show, one of the top four most popular podcasts last year to get your daily dose of motivation and inspiration from the Ramsey network.

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