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Hi, this is Hillary Clinton, host of the new podcast, You and Me both, there's a lot to be anxious and worried about right now, and it's made so much worse by the fact that we can't be together. So I find myself on the phone a lot, talking with friends, experts, really anyone who can help make some sense of these challenging times. These conversations have been a lifeline for me.


And now I hope they will be for you to please listen to you and me both on the I Heart radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Peter Judge, and this is the deciding decade. Like everyone else, a big part of how I unwind is through laughter with friends, but also watching comedy on TV or the Internet. It's always been a strange relief to see political events that upset us parodied. It's a reminder of how absurd reality can be.


But the Trump era has brought us to a point that is almost beyond satire. Just look at Sarah Cooper's amazing, hilarious viral impersonations of President Trump. Truly comedic genius, but also disturbing because most of their basis is the actual undoctored audio of the words of the president of the United States. It makes you wonder, is it even OK to laugh right now? But laughter is part of how we make sense of what's happening around us and part of how we get through it.


And nothing in American culture has played that role more consistently over the years than Saturday Night Live. Over the last few years, they've helped a lot of people, myself included, come to terms with the world around us through comedy. Of course, one problem you have as a presidential candidate, and this is admittedly a very good problem to have, is you also find yourself a little anxious going into Saturday evening's about how you're probably going to be made fun of on national television, reflecting on the role of humor in our changing lives.


I wanted to talk to someone about the role that it can play to simply help us move through the world and to think about how that role may be shaping the years ahead.


My guest today, Colin, jokes to most of you probably know from Saturday Night Live or from his recent release of his very funny and very well written new book, A Very Punchable Face. And I'm not going to comment on how accurate that description is that I'm looking at him right now on Zoom. And what I will say is that he's a smart guy. He's a Harvard graduate study. The history and literature of Russia and Britain rose up the ranks at SNL and became a head writer and is now very well known, hilarious co-host of SNL Weekend Update.


Along with Michael Che, he's won four awards, a Peabody Award, and has been nominated for multiple Emmys. Colin, welcome and congratulations on the book. Thank you very much. Thank you for that wonderful introduction. I like your I like your radio voice of in practice, it was good. I was convinced I should begin by disclosing that we knew each other in college. So we were in the same dorm. In fact, I wouldn't say we were close, but definitely remember kind of seeing you and had a lot of mutual friends.


I should probably begin just by asking, do you ever think back to what, like a sophomore Colin Joester junior year and would have thought about the idea that 20 years later you would be on SNL and enlisted to do an impression of me as a presidential candidate?


None of those thoughts crossed my mind, like not a single one of those layers crossed my mind at the time. And I remember when Lauren talked to me about playing the show, he was like, I think he just kind of has to like I think it just makes too much sense otherwise. And I was like, OK. And it was a very surreal experience. And it's the most close to home that I've ever been in terms of. First of all, I never do any impressions, as you can tell from my impression, but it felt very personal in terms of choosing even the lines to say or working on some of the scripts, because it I wanted to do right by you.


Your job is to make fun of the person that you're doing an impression. So you feel like it's I feel ethically complicated. Or how did you approach that? I guess it feels comedically complicated sometimes, like you're just part of the decisions are complicated at our show because it's so it moves so quickly. So you don't always have the ability to look back at something and say, OK, is this really the line we want for this person or is this really what we want to take away of this sketch to be used?


Don't always have that luxury for everyone. We try to think, is this is this a fair comment on this person or a fair angle of attack on someone?


So how did you process the experience of just becoming very visible? That must have happened pretty suddenly. I mean, you were doing standup and you were a head writer at SNL, but then you flip over and you do weekend update and suddenly, like, you're not just part of this very famous thing. You're a very famous face. And as you write about in the book, very honestly, the first is not going very well. So how did you process all of that?


How did it change your life and how did you make sure you're still yourself?


You know, it was very it was very weird because as I'm sure you experienced, for the vast majority of my life, I had been completely unknown outside of my family and friends. And you don't really think about who you are in the way, how you're presenting to the world. You think about who you are as a person and you try to work on yourself as a person, but you don't think about how you present to society or how you come across on TV or how you come across in the media.


You just don't think about that ever. You suddenly get criticism and you suddenly get notes on how you look or how you smile or you get like very specific comments, both from friends and from strangers on the Internet. And you're suddenly thinking of yourself in a whole different way. You're like, what's wrong with me? Why aren't I better at this? Why don't I present better? Why does everyone hate me? You have those feelings. And the weird part is it almost makes you question who you are as a person beyond how you present to the world.


And then you just get used to it and you get used to a certain norm or a certain level. That is criticism, which is both healthy, healthy and constructive and not. And and you get used to trusting your own instinct and finding out what your instincts really are in the face of what everyone else is telling you to do. And that takes time. And you kind of have to build the courage to do that. And that was actually my favorite thing about writing this book.


I did it all in a vacuum. I didn't show it. I showed it to some friends, but I didn't show it to anyone I at NBC or run it by anyone in that way. And I feel like it's the purest form of what I set out to write and worked really hard at it. And then that was it. I didn't really care about what how it was received. And it's probably it probably made it a lot better that I wasn't worried about.


That's a great book. Thank you. But I had a question for you, though, the same question kind of, which is you had the same experience of your local fame when you were in South Bend. And then going to the national level is a whole other scrutiny and also level of fame, which must have been jarring at times or it required some kind of adjustment, right?


Yeah, I was really in many ways it was disorienting and for the same reasons you describe. I mean, as a mayor, you're walking around your city, everybody knows you. Right. And they'll come up to you and they'll talk about a pothole or a hot local issue or. Going on in the schools or whatever, but especially in a place like South Bend where I was on local TV all the time and most residents knew who I was, but it was just in a city, right.


So I could go anywhere else. I could drive an hour and a half to Chicago and some dude and I can go about life in a very normal way. And suddenly what happens is there's that same kind of visibility, but it's literally everywhere you go. Now, I didn't really have to confront it that much because I wasn't doing many things other than campaigning. Right. It's such a total takeover of your life that I never really felt that much the difference in being able to go to the grocery store because every minute of my time was programmed is unlikely I'd even be in that scenario.


I wonder to when you're talking about being mayor and people coming up to you, problems versus on that on a national campaign where people are also probably coming up to you with problems. But a lot of things you're faced in, say, debates are really about larger ideas or and I wonder, is it harder or less satisfying to deal in large abstract ideas when you get into foreign policy or economic policy versus when someone's telling you what a specific problem locally? You're like, OK, I, I know this problem.


We've got to solve this problem. But it seems like that is a more satisfying way to do politics, which is just to problem solve versus having to have sort of sweeping ideas that aren't necessarily changing anything. Yeah, I think it's true. I mean, it's more satisfying when you have cause and effect. Right. It's why to get away from from work, I took in my first couple of years to a lot of home improvement because like you, you paint something and then it's painted.


And it was that kind of immediate reward of solving a problem is the same thing locally. Like it feels great to, like, get a pothole filled. And sometimes I literally go out with the crews mostly just to thank them. But also it was like very satisfying to literally just like you scoop this asphalt in there and you tap it down to this big kind of weight and you're like, oh, that problem solved. Eighty thousand to go, whatever.


But the other thing that you would confront is the really big things are landing on your desk too. If it's like just fix this stop sign, that's one thing. But when they're like just fix racism or just fix homelessness or the crime rate, sometimes you wonder if some commentators in the media think that there's some big knob in the mayor's office that you could dial up or down on how much homelessness or crime there's going to be. And you just forgot.


Right. And so these big, almost cosmic and painful issues that you're confronting are, by their nature, like tied in with the national issues that we're facing. Right. And I think that's part of what's happening now with basically the hostility between the White House and a lot of local leaders who should be working in lockstep, whether it's dealing with policing issues or dealing with public health. And when you don't have that, it all kind of spins apart because it turns out even the most immediate backyard concrete little problem is connected up to this big picture is part of why Ran was realizing over time as a mayor that the big things were affecting my ability to solve the things that right in front of me that make sense.


I mean, you have a connecting because things get connected in a way that you don't know exactly what will solve the problem. Meaning if you're talking about solving the problem of homelessness, obviously so much of it is tied to other shifting factors like the economy and our. Do people have jobs and is there mental health treatment? What I one thing I don't understand and maybe you can enlighten me on this, why isn't there just a massive public works push that just gets people jobs in America and Bill rebuilds?


All the things that are physically broken about the country, gives people, employs people, makes everyone's neighborhoods, cities look better, feel better to be in, have better transportation. Why does that not get done? Because everyone seems to agree that that's good. Everyone seems to even even people on the candidates, on both sides seem to talk about this a lot. Yeah, I mean, Trumpton, that this was wrong. It just doesn't feel like it happened.


Like one of the few things I thought Trump would actually do out of his campaign totally was this talk about infrastructure. Right. Because he seems to want and everybody likes it to be good for the economy. It'd be nice to run. And even that didn't happen.


Right? Right. Or even like Obama when we were coming out of the recession, I remember there was going to be huge infrastructure push. And I kept hearing there's going to be these high speed trains in California and New York. And what happened? Nothing happens. And you're like, what? Where does that go? Why does that get defeated? Is that just held up in congressional ways? What happens? And frankly, a lot of it is because it turns out that there was not the political will to pay for it.


Right. Sometimes people talk about taxes and then programs like they're completely unrelated, like, are you going to raise or lower taxes and school taxes for what? And if going to lower taxes, what are you going to cut? But when you get to Congress, then they say, how are you going to pay for this? Now, today, of course, they're not saying how are you going to pay for this as we're literally just sending out cash just to keep everybody going.


But. That's been an obstacle. This is why you and I have to start a go fund me to build that wall. What could go wrong? What could possibly go top? Maybe a little off the top, but most of it goes to the wall. That's why we got to do this, this kind of stuff. Well, and, you know, the thing that gets me about that is we've seen this pattern with with that thing for the wall that Steve Bannon has been indicted over and the NRA, which turned out just remember, the NRA, technically a non-profit, right.


Where the owner is like being vetted or the president is being jetted around the world and has this giant home funded by these contributions. The graft that is going on there is not that different, in my view, from what the president's doing to the entire country, which is he seems to believe his supporters are suckers who will just send their money or send their votes into this, and then they're laughing all the way to the bank. It's really funny that there was a whole other scandal that wasn't even on anyone's radar that then Bannon was involved in.


It was like finding. Yeah, came out of the lost city in the Amazon or whatever, that was untouched. And you're like, wow, these still you can still find new things. Incredible. Hey, it's Bobby Bones, executive producer of Make It Up as we Go, the brand new podcast from Audio Up and I Heart Radio brought to you exclusively by Unilever's Noor and Magnum Brands. The story follows a songwriter's journey as well as the songs themselves and how they make it to country radio from executive producer Miranda Lambert and creators Scarlett Burg and Jared Goosestep.


A story inspired by the competitive world of Nashville writing rooms featuring original music by Scarlett Burke, director and executive producer, featuring some of the biggest names in country, including The Cool Guy and Everything Now Nowadays. Make it up as we go only on the podcast network in association with audio of media created by Scarlett Burke and Jared Goosestep. So with production on hold, as these things are happening around the world, you know, as a comic, do you think, like I have to go satirize this or do you feel like a lot of us do now that it's kind of beyond parody?


I mean, how does comedy and satire even respond to the moment we're in? Having now extended time away from it, I think it's healthy that for our show in general, that we have a summer hiatus because you definitely there's moments where you're itching to be back on and you have something you want to say about whatever is happening that week. But it's nice to take a break because you also realize how cyclical things feel and how repetitive things feel. And people are always like, oh, my God, can you believe you're missing this scandal this week or are you killing yourself that you're you're missing this?


And then you realize there's going to be another one the next week and there's probably going to be another one the week after that. And the strange thing now, I wish we could get a ranking of the level of scandalous ness of all the things that have happened, because I feel like I'm going crazy a little bit. I know I've lost all perspective on in the scheme of history, which which events of the last four years will actually resonate in years and how many I mean, there's certain things that are clearly don't matter at all.


Like we're people we're making fun of Trump because he was walking down the stairs in a weird way after his speech at West Point. And everyone talked about that for a week. And you're like, well, that doesn't matter at all. It's the dumbest thing. Who cares? That doesn't matter. But then you're like, he was impeached. That takes a back seat to ramp gate.


And will that you assume that's going to make it into a history textbook. But who knows? I don't really think it's not even in the top five events of twenty twenty surrounding the presidency. Yeah. That you could be impeached and it's not in your top five is really, really funny. You have actually spent time with Donald Trump. I've never met him. He guest hosted SNL. You write about this in the book and maybe you could share a little bit about, first of all, what that was like and then how you kind of resolve having interacted with him in a professional environment for a show that went pretty well and the disaster that his presidency is.


Yeah, I mean, the show itself, just the comedy level, I would argue, is pretty bad. OK, independent of anything else. I mean, if you watch it, he afterwards I remember Trump kept saying that he improvised the whole show and I was like, it's a bit insulting to a writer. Thank you. Know, I was like, please get that out there. You have us hosted SNL, who were from all walks of life, who have all kinds of political views.


I mean, we had already had on the show like Giuliani and Mike Huckabee and Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama. And and when you look at the musical guests and hosts that are non-political, that, come on, they are really all over the political spectrum, too. I mean, people have all kinds of you know, and I think that's a nice thing about her.


Did you even think of him as a political figure when it came on? I mean, this is twenty fifteen. Right. Did it feel like he was there as a politician or that he was there as an entertainer or something else? I don't know. Something in between. It really did. It was very surreal. I mean, one thing she always says like that, it's Donald Trump on television makes sense. Donald Trump in politics makes no sense.


Like, that's the weird part. It was very, very strange experience. And I that week ended up writing kind of around him, I would say. And I wrote I write these drunk uncle character for Bobby Moynihan. And so we wrote one of those where he was basically the platonic ideal of a Trump voter, which was kind of a weird kind of a fun thing to have in the show where he hosted. And then Cecily and Vanessa and I wrote these pornstar characters.


And so we tried this idea for the table where they were porn stars who were endorsing Donald Trump for president. This is before, obviously all the Stormy Daniels stuff came out and very surprisingly at the time. But maybe in retrospect, less surprisingly, Donald Trump was way into that idea and that made it on the show. And so I think the last sketch of the show ends with Cecily and Vanessa as porn stars endorsing Donald Trump for president. And then Donald Trump turns to Cecily, who's blonde and says didn't used to be a brunette.


I'm pretty sure that's the last line of this show, which is God. And again, watching it in retrospect, is so complicated to look at given everything that's happened, because I remember even in college, I was pretty upset by the Iraq war, what was going on with the Bush administration.


I remember The Daily Show at the time being a real kind of almost a relief. And then I remember also I want to say not long after we graduated, I remember the White House Correspondents Dinner when Cobbora, standing a few feet away from George W. Bush, gives this amazing, searing, just skewering of the Bush administration. Feeling like I'd never seen anything like that happened, it was as if Voltaire had mocked the monarchy in the court of Louis the 14th or something, and yet it feels like all of those things that were kind of rewarding to watch, then kind of harder to take any comfort or pleasure in releasing today, because things are so in many ways disturbing and frightening in our political landscape.


And I wonder, especially because you don't just write for us now, you write for the part that is most topical. We kind of like how much do you think about humor as a relief from what's going on in the world? Versus humor is an important part of how we deal with what's going on in the world.


I think when you're thinking even back to George W. Bush, I mean, whatever anyone thinks about his policies or people that were working with him while he was president, it's pretty hard to argue that he's not a compassionate man and a decent man. I mean, even if you might say, like whether it was applied to all these things while he was president or whatever, and who knows what he looks back on and has regrets about or not. I don't know that.


Do you sense there's some moral center in George W. Bush? I think and you when you look at Trump, I think you just don't see that in the same way. You don't even what his own family is saying about him. And I think that makes a lot of things that you're talking about harder, like in the Cuban way or and that because it doesn't feel like it's it's just sort of going into a strange vacuum or something and not affecting anything or.


Yeah, it's like pushing on a string. You know, there's no tension there because there's no possibility of experiencing shame maybe that.


Yeah, yeah. There's no I mean, I also think things like that trickle down from whoever is the leader of your country. If you're if you're leaders not paying taxes and your leaders doesn't mind exploiting the system to get wealthier, then why would anyone else I mean, it's I can't believe people in America are like, why am I paying taxes? This guy's not paying. Our president doesn't pay taxes. That stuff trickles down. It becomes a mindset.


And I think the other thing is just some sort of compassion for people and trying to figure out what how to help, even if it's people just immediately around you, doesn't have to be some big sweeping political thing. You can just be how am I helping family members? I'm helping people in my community to help educate people, even whatever it is. Those small things, I think make a difference over time.


Turn into the book. One thing I want to ask you about is a lot of the really funny moments of the book are also very self-deprecating. Mingus's and that's a big part of comedy is a big part of humor. One of the more interesting specials I saw recently, I think got a lot of people's attention was Hanna Gadsby, who obviously is coming from a different perspective, but was talking about how, in her case, the kind of self at least I took it to be saying that the self deprecation involved in humor kind of crossed the line into abuse or self abuse.


And the psychology of comics, I think, is something that is always kind of under the surface. And we're in a moment where I think people are talking more about mental health, talking more about kind of how they relate to the world and being more open about these things. And I wonder, do you see the comedy changing in that way and especially being in a very intense community of comic actors and knowing that SNL has a history of some of the best comedy the West has ever produced and also a history of a lot of bad things happening to people who were on the show.


Yeah, I guess the question I'm asking is like, is comedy bad for you?


It's great for us sometimes. I mean, I think the vast majority of comedians, while they fluctuate between periods of confidence, sometimes extreme confidence and then debilitating depression and debilitating self-doubt, and you see people, even people that look like they have a ton of bravado on stage. So many of those people are the most vulnerable people you'll meet and offstage are constantly worried about whether they're funny, are they any good at it? And meanwhile, you think they're the most confident person in the world.


You look at someone like David Letterman and you always talked about how every show he was like, I think I'm not I'm just not funny. I don't I can't do this anymore. Like, I'm terrible. I don't. And I think part of that is healthy because part of it makes you try to keep getting better and pushing yourself to find some kind of new level or challenge yourself to to get out of a rut. And then some of it is not healthy.


And some of it is just makes your your your life miserable and prevents you from enjoying even the successful moments in your life where the things that feel like victories, which are usually few and far between, even for someone who's very successful. And I think that's just the reality for for a lot of people in comedy. And that's why I have a lot of empathy for comics who go through. Lots of different things, because I know that that's, you know, there's lots of comedians who are alcoholics or I think so many are either alcoholics or recovered or sober now, because that's one way of dealing with the wild swings of you when you're on stage and it goes great.


You want to keep that feeling going and you're like, I'm going to have two to 12 drinks. And then you're when it set goes horribly, you're like, I want to drink to forget that I just had a horrible set and that becomes a way of life. And then say, you have a few drinks before you go on stage and you do. Well, there's not only a superstition, but almost a feeling like maybe I need that every time.


Maybe I need to be a little drunk before I go on stage, like people go through. And then then you're like, I will drink. And then you have a bad setting like I do need to. And you get into all these habits that you have to be really, really vigilant to break things like that and really have to have help of therapy and also have and do self reflection, which is hard to do. And sometimes that's the last thing you think about as mental health.


And that's the nice thing. Now, I do think people are talking about it more and giving each other a little more leeway or I hope I mean, that's the goal.


Another pressure that you mentioned in the book is women, and I'd never thought about this, but when you become head writer, you take on this responsibility of basically the careers of the people that you work with, deciding whether to go to bat for a certain sketch, worrying not just about how to reflect on you if it doesn't go well, but it would be bad for them. And just reminded me of so many of the pressures that I think people go through when they first find themselves with responsibility.


Yeah, it's where it's where my my Catholic guilt really kicked in from every angle because I feel guilt about what if my own sketches on is that bad. Should I be trying to get somewhere. Is it feel like I'm promoting my own thing, which I always try not to do if I'm going out on a limb and for our young writers of the show and saying, hey, this sketch is really good, we should put it on the show and then it either doesn't do well or Laugesen like it for some reason, then I almost feel like I'm jeopardizing their writers career.


It is a strange balance. Like you almost feel like you have to, you have to trust your instincts, but you also have to pick your battles a little bit.


That makes me think about just how powerful of a name or an institution SNL is. And one of the things that was important in my life was know as part of a lot of institutions that had very powerful names Harvard, Oxford, the United States Navy. But one of the most important steps in my life was when I kind of left the warm embrace of a lot of institutions that spoke for me, left my job and went out to run for state treasurer in Indiana where nobody heard of me.


I wound up getting clobbered. I lost like 60 40. I was a Democrat in Indiana in 2010. Not a great year to be running statewide, but it was that step that put me on the path to being able to serve my city as mayor and then eventually run for president. Yet I found even running for president that often as people were figuring out who I am, the shortcut to that was good or bad was looking at any kind of big name I was connected to, whether it was McKinsey, the consulting company I worked for, or Notre Dame, even though I wasn't an alum because it was connected to my hometown.


And so one thing we were open about in the book is you're thinking about what comes after SNL, which feels to me like it kind of rhymes with that sort of moment, which is frightening and full of possibility. And I wonder, first of all, why did you decide to share that? Because you usually don't telegraph career moves in very public ways when you're very visible, especially with a book.


You don't know the timing of things that come out or when you're watching, it's hard to sort the data.


So what made you decide to be open about that? And then how are you thinking about this process? Well, first, when you're talking about different institutions, I mean, it's a very strange thing because you have to be you know, first of all, I didn't maybe you were the same way. I grew up in Staten Island. I certainly didn't grow up assuming I could go to Harvard or or that I could work at SNL. Like, those just weren't things that I thought I could do.


And then going to these Harvard definitely being an institution and even SNL sometimes feeling like an institution, I think you have to you have to approach when you're at a place like that, I think you have to have a healthy skepticism about the place you're at. I think you have to be examining the institution you're at and just trying to figure out the ways in which it's that it's broken or the ways in which it's it just needs to be updated or I don't know, or better run or whatever.


You have to do everything. You know, things are around for a long time. And so that means there's probably something there that's worth keeping. But you also have to keep re-examining or else it doesn't function right anymore or things have to keep evolving, I guess is the word that I'm looking for. And unless they do that, then they I think they wither and they die. And I think that's why you have to always I think it's good to be an outsider and come in and look at something and say, all right, I want to do things a little differently, even if it's my part of it.


It starts with that, because when you start as a new writer or you start as a freshman at Harvard, you're not going in and saying, now let's let's restructure this institution. You're you're more like, I want to figure out how I want to do this as much as possible and and be aware of some of the downsides of it. You talk about a certain kind of search for belonging. It's a theme that comes up in the book that resonated for me because it's a big theme of my campaign, too, is trying to respond to this kind of issue or even crisis of belonging that I think is playing out for different people in different ways.


It sounds like you found it at the Lampoon, the humor magazine that that you were part of at Harvard. You found it as a member of the SNL cast. I wonder how you would think about building a sense of belonging when you do go walk out from being kind of in the embrace of something as big and famous and as tight knit as a place like SNL?


That's that's absolutely the scariest. About leaving, and I'm I'm realizing I mean, part of it was writing the book and part of it was just thinking, reflecting back on SNL and growing up in Staten Island. And so much of my life is so community oriented. My favorite parts of life are community oriented, are feeling like I'm with friends, I'm with people who I can joke with and work with and and live with. And that's that's, I think, the most valuable thing.


And again, their medical studies that show when you're part of a community, you're physically healthier, you're happier, healthier actually relates to life expectancy. Yeah, totally, totally relate to life expectancy, heart disease, all these things, because you feel like you belong somewhere. You know, one of the things I noticed in the book, it feels to me like you go out of your way to mention to name some of the people you worked with, people who influenced you, other writers, other comedic actors.


So very curious, looking to the future. If there are two or three names of people most of us haven't heard of, who you think might be shaping comedy or satire entertainment in the next decade?


Well, I think at SNL, I think right now there's a group of writing supervisors who I think they're going to be very important both at our show and beyond our show and their careers, which is Fran Gillispie and Anna Dreazen and sued Green and Streator Sidell. Sam Jay, who's a writer at SNL, just had a special that came out that people should check out to. It's really funny. And standup is so hard now because I haven't been in a club, whatever, six months to see who the who's coming up and who he look out for.


Mark Norman was super funny. Andrew Shults, those are guys that we came up with together Raw Jay being someone that I loved as a stand up and then getting to work with as a writer and then getting to work with for update has been has been very, very cool journey. And I think we'll look back on a lot of those years and what happened and be very happy that we got to go through it together.


We're weeks away from an election is going to change American history one way or the other. Do you think that humor is going to have a different role in our lives in the decade ahead? Or is this just variations on a theme? You never know exactly how how comedy is going to change until it does. And then you look back, you know, when we were talking about Steve Martin the other day and how much his comedy was a reaction to coming out of the Vietnam War and such a heady political time.


And then his comedy was so absurdist and and so just fun and an escape in a whole different way that was completely apolitical. And so I could certainly see something happening in that way. And people needing an escape from everything feeling very overly scrutinized politically at every turn. I could definitely see that happening. But the biggest thing is you don't exactly know where the next generation of stars is going to come from. I think I think that each generation makes the previous one either relevant or irrelevant.


And so I don't know what the I don't know what it's going to do for comedy in. I'm struck by how Colin and I basically lived across the hall from each other in college about 20 years ago, but didn't know each other that well and are now encountering each other in what feels like a different life for each of us, having a really substantive, fascinating conversation. It also shows you how you never know how you're going to cross paths with somebody again in the future.


With every part of our society changing right now, I'm wondering what role humor is going to play going forward for as long as human beings have faced major events. Humor has helped us process and think through it all. There's a case to be made. It's actually going to be more important than ever in the years ahead. And I'm really grateful for people like Colin who are bringing their talent for making us laugh into our lives.


For more podcasts from I Heart Radio, visit the heart radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Hey, guys, it is Bobby Bones I want to tell you about make it up as we go. One of the coolest podcasts coming out this year brought to you exclusively by Unilever's Noor and Magnum Brands and featuring original music by Scarlett Burke, creator, director and executive producer and cocreator Jerry Goosestep. This is an incredible inside look to the behind the scenes of Nashville writing rooms and features superb acting by Billy Bob Thornton, myself and Miranda Lambert.


There's a killer soundtrack that you can stream alongside original episodes which drop every week only on the podcast network in association with audio. What media? Hey, guys, it is Bobby Bones. I want to tell you about make it up as we go. One of the coolest podcasts coming out this year brought to you exclusively by Unilever's Noor and Magnon Brands and featuring original music by Scarlett Burke, creator, director and executive producer and cocreator Jared Goosestep. This is an incredible inside look to the behind the scenes of Nashville writing rooms and features superb acting by Billy Bob Thornton, myself and Miranda Lambert.


There's a killer soundtrack that you can stream alongside original episode, which drop every week only on the podcast network in association with audio. What media?