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And couldn't be a nicer or cooler guy.

Please give it up to the legend, the great and powerful Ronnie Coleman government podcast, The Joe Rogan Experience, trained by Joe Rogan podcast by Night All Day. Mr. Coleman, what's going on? Great to meet you, brother. It's a real honor. I mean, you are when I was like really into bodybuilding and reading the magazines and I always said that you looked like a dude who they invented in the Marvel comic book to kill the Hulk.

Like I said, she looked like when you were in your prime man.

Yeah, I felt like I probably could, too, back in those days. I mean, God damn, you were freakishly huge.

It was crazy to see was like, you know, I remember being such a bodybuilder from the beginning, like the Franco, Columbo and Schwarzenegger days to what you guys had become, you know, when you were and you probably just redefined everything.

Everything was just so extreme.

Yeah, well, we're pretty, pretty tough. Back in those days, everything was hard. You know, the guy that I was competing against were real good. And now I just came out of nowhere, you know, because I got in bodybuilding, really, you know, where I'm from. We didn't have it. I didn't find out about it until I graduated college, went out to Texas and saw the work for the police department. How old were you at the time?

Oh, about twenty four. So that's when you started bodybuilding? That's when I started.

But I've been working out, you know, since I was 12, 13 for sports. Yeah. Now I have a little Neapolitan team. Oh I did powerlifting in high school so I got the piloting team and you know I'm from Louisiana, real small town. Most of the a lot of the guys are kind of big like me, kind of strong like me. You know, a lot of people understand, but strength is something like a natural, not a natural gift.

You know, you can work on it and get better at it, but you also have to be gifted a little bit. Have to have a nice space. Yeah.

You have to have a nice base and you have to have a little talent. Yeah. You know, like this guy. I think I can remember the name of the deadlift 100 pound.

Oh that. The Game of Thrones guy. Yeah. Yeah. The mountain. That's a gift. You know that's talent. Yeah. Yeah. He's gifted. Everybody can't do that. You know, I did eight hundred you know for a couple of but I don't think I can do 100. That's a lot of weight, has a lot of weight.

He's an enormous human being though that guy. Yeah. Yeah. That's a Viking right there. Yeah.

You get, you have to have a lot of weight to be, to pull a lot of weight like that too.

Yeah. So you in your career you were known for lifting large amounts of weight too.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Like I was saying, you know, I started powerlifting when I was in high school. You know, I had to like the gift of strength. You know, I was pretty strong in high school, you know, all throughout my college days. And, you know, it was just something that I, I think was kind of born with a little bit, you know, because you don't just start lifting heavy weights like that.

All of a sudden, you know, you have to have a like say you have to have some kind of natural talent for it.

Well, there are some crazy photos. You during the Mr. Olympia days when you were a police officer, is that you look at that.

Yeah, that's that's me in the ninth grade on the left and that's me when what happened.

The arm on the left. You got a cast on. Yeah, somebody I know.

I guess I was playing football and I think I fell on my wrist or something and and cracked it or something and that's me winning the the Miss Universe, turning pro in the middle and that's me winning in ninety nine.

Mr. Olympia far right there. Wow. Damn you were big. Yeah.

I was trying to be a little bit well you know I got a lot bigger than that was my second Olympiada. I only weighed about 255. What's the biggest you ever got.

I was two ninety five, my seventh one. So I put on a little bit more weight as I get on up there.

But is it one of those things where you just kind of have to keep up with everybody else and everybody just keeps getting bigger and bigger?

Now it was that thing. I mean, I was trying to distance myself from everybody else, so I kept getting bigger and bigger so nobody would catch up with me. Oh, and what a lot of people in here, you see me big up there like that. But, you know, it took a long time for me to get there. You know, that didn't happen overnight. I put on about five pounds of muscle between five and ten pounds of muscle a year.

And that came from all that, you know, that heavy lifting, a lot of eating. A lot of eating. What was it that was a standard meal for you? I mean, it wasn't a lot to me, you know, but if somebody, you know, normally treated probably a lot. So I eat like a pound of chicken, grilled breast, you know, with half a cup of rice.

That was a normal meal. Yeah, I was. And how many of those did you have a day?

I had about six meals a day. You know, it's kind of hard to eat like that, you know, so I would have to wake up in the middle of the night to eat and go back to sleep. Really? Yeah, it's annoying.

No, no, I don't think that'll be annoying. You're tired and sleeping and you got to wake up to eat now. You kind of get used to it. Yeah. When you eat like that, you hungry every three hours. Oh really? Yeah. Every two or three hours. You're hungry because I'm not I'm not eating a lot of fat, you know. I mean, you know, I'm not eating like carbs. So it's just it's a little a little bit of food at a time for me, it was and you would get down to one percent body fat.

I was point three, three point three three.

I mean, is that less than three percent?

That's less than half a percent less. O point three three. Like what point three three.

How does a human get that low.

Oh I got I got to attribute it to my genetics, but it was it also like a trickle down system, like well off season say if you like, how many weeks would you take, would it take for you to get ready for Mr. Olympia. 10 to toil ten to 12. So at 12 weeks out, how much body fat do you think you were carrying around then?

Oh, about three percent.

So three was a high. That's the highest. Yeah.

Jesus, I'm 300. I'm three hundred and thirty pounds.

Oh my God. But you get tired all the time with that. No, no. I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm good and fat. That's good and fat. Three percent body fat is good. Fat. That's hilarious.

Yeah. Jamie, see if you can pull up a picture of him winning the seventh Mr. Olympia title when he was at his heaviest. I we'll see what that looks like.

I was pretty big at that one. Yeah, you were big man. I remember looking at the magazines like shaking my head today.

I would say, oh, that's Photoshopped. You don't have Photoshop back then. I didn't have it back then. You know, I was a little bit too big for that when they had me to come down a bit for the next one. Oh, really? Well, I came down to like 275.

So when you said they coaches'.

You're who? Some of the judges and the judges. Yeah. The judges were telling you you too big. Yeah. That's when you know, you fucked up.

That's when you go crazy when the judges at Mr. Olympia. Yeah. I'm telling you, a guy who's won it multiple years ago, seven years in a row. Yeah. They're telling you you're getting too big again to take it down a notch. Yeah. Cause, you know, the guy next to me is only like two fifty, you know.

So but why were they saying, well, you still looked amazing. Like why were they saying you were too big?

Because I was. That it really was too big here. Yeah.

For the standards back then. You know, you don't have to find that, though.

It's really just taste right. Like it's they look at it and they decide subjective.

Yeah. In a way it's kind of subjective in a way that.

What year was the seventh one. I think it was oh five was it.

Or five riot. You know, that's the eighth one. Oh fourth No. Seven. Yeah, there we go. Yeah, that's it right there. Wow. Yeah. God, you were huge.

That does look like a guy who comes out of a lab to kill the Hulk. You know, like some evil genius like the Hulk is working for The Avengers.

Yeah. Yeah.

So they how do they make that conversation with you when they say, Ronnie, you're too big? Just talking to my nutritionist. You know, I haven't been on my diet and all that kind of stuff for me. So they probably just, you know, told him real nicely. Yeah, break it down a notch.

I remember there's a photo of you when you still in the police force. And you were also I don't know if you're Mr. Olympia when you're on the police force, when you retire. Yeah. And then you eventually left the force. You were so big.

You're sitting there with the uniform on him like there is no way that's a regular uniform.

No, it's not. No, it's not a you. Did you hear those shorts? That can't be real. Did you did you arrest people with those shorts on?

No, I made those shorts myself. But we did wear shorts, though. We didn't have shorts. Yeah, well, I think you see that picture right there. I got on shorts in the briefing room, but then I saw my legs right there. Right there, yeah, right. Yeah, I have some shots of you that that picture is actually bigger than that, but you just did that inspire other guys you worked with to start lifting to.

Yeah, yeah, pretty much. I'm lifting.

Yeah, we had a gym at station. Oh, really? We had about four or five stations. Every station has a gym. We have a training center with a huge gym. Really. Yeah.

I started working out there when I first got home. I worked out with me and the chief and some other guys. We all worked out together there for a while and this isn't the beginning.

But when I saw this gigantic. Yeah.

Before I got real, real big, you know, you know, I had to start small. Now, of course, everybody's a baby. Oh yeah. So I was about to 15 when I first started.

Now, when you first started, did you have this idea that one day it was this a dream?

No, no, no.

I did it cause the guy gave me a free membership to the gym. I never had a dream. I just wanted a free membership because I was poor back then. I couldn't, you know, afford to pay what, gym membership? Because I just had on and coming from Domino's Pizza. Wow. You know, I had to eat pizza every day to survive. I survived because I had to make the most money by the time I got please.

But I and I was still struggling and trying to get back on my feet and I couldn't afford membership still.

Oh, and this is when you were 24. Yeah, I was twenty four. So you were just a big guy.

Yeah, I'm a regular big I've been big and muscular my whole entire life but regular big.

Not like Mr. Limpia. Big.

Well I was put a picture up there that somebody took not too long ago because when I first got into a sport of bodybuilding, I was doing security and I missed an event. And most of the people in the audience thought that I should be on stage back then. Really think so. You know what? They thought that I had 22, 23 and John back then, I had that was twenty twenty to twenty, twenty one, twenty two times in college.

How big were they when you are your biggest.

Twenty four. Twenty four. That's the biggest. Yeah. That's like a waste.

Yeah. Some girl.

Yeah. But like, like I'm like a runner. Yeah. Well Zack better. I bet Zac better got a twenty four which was actually my waist was like twenty nine when I first started. Wow. Yeah.

I remember Holyfield when he was a heavyweight champ of the world. A twenty eight inch waist. Yeah. Yeah. That's crazy. Yeah. That's a V right there. Yeah exactly. Yeah. Crazy. So you start.

So you did this security for the Mr. Olympia event and anyone did that get like the bug in your head.

Did you start thinking, oh no, no, no, no one can ever start thinking that what it was. How did it happen?

I want the first one in ninety eight.

So how do you enter it? What makes you want to enter something like that.

Well, I can say that the guy said if you compete I give you a free membership to the gym. OK, so I was just competing for a free membership to the gym because I work full time police department. I had that job, had like a couple secure the job on the side. So I didn't really, you know, need money from anybody. I had, you know, benefits and everything. So you don't need money if I'm just doing it for a free membership, I was just doing it for free.

So you do it. And obviously people go, this guy's got real potential.

I guess they were saying to themselves, I never try to say this.

So what did you do? Like, you just decided to keep going and I kept going for the free membership. Yeah, I'm not I'm not going to give it up.

So competing just was about free memberships at one point in time. When did it become serious? When I was on my first Olympic in ninety eight.

That's when it became when you first Olympian. Yeah. Yeah. Do you know how many bodybuilders right now I want to jump out of a building. Yeah. But I'm not going to go right to the top floor and fucking leap out a window like.

Yeah obviously my dream was always be a professional football player. Oh. So I played football, junior high, high school, college and all that kind of stuff. And we're not even drafted. I like OK, I got a degree so I can get a good job, you know, with accounting degree and I graduated with honors and all that kind of stuff and I figured I'd just be an accountant, make good money there. So I never had no dreams, aspirations being a bodybuilder, but you never were an accountant?

No, I never made it. Never, never. I never got a job.

So you just got a job at the police department instead, huh? Yeah, exactly. I tried for about two years to get an accounting job. Yeah, I tried really hard. I did a million interviews. And so some of the biggest accounting firms in the world and the United States anyway, and nobody never hired me. So I like two years later, OK, I'm done. This ain't meant to be. And nothing happening here, you know, two years and and I always saw an ad for police officers.

And when I got the newspaper every weekend. And it was always a big you know, so it stood out. Mm hmm. So I'm like, hmm, they hide and you don't need experience. Oh, oh, jobs. I went on, you know, interviews I went on. They always want you to have experience. I'm like, well, you know, you got no experience, right? So I'm like, well, just give up on this, you know, give me a job where you don't have to have experience and the like, say, the police officer.

I was the thing that stood out the most. And I'm like, that's not like a job. I can have a lot of fun.

You know, I can't believe that you didn't really get serious until after you won Mr. Olympia. That's that's hard to believe. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, you got to understand, you know, I never had any dreams of being a minister then. You never had any dreams of being a bodybuilder. I only did it called the guy gave me a free membership to the gym.

But once you started getting going and you won Mr. Olympia and you realized, wow, I'm I'm the best, I got to throw myself into this.

Exactly. Because the way you worked out, man, I watched a video of you working out once.

And I'm like, just the intensity and thinking like this is not just doing this guy's doing this for 12 weeks straight. The intensity that you had in the gym like you were, there's a certain level, no matter what the sport is, champions have a certain level of focus and dedication, basically. And I remember watching that video game, that's what a champion looks like. That's what a champion looks like.

Well, you got to also realize that, you know, I started working out when I was toil. I kind of fell in love with it when I was 13 and it just kind of became a hobby once I joined the powerlifting team. So I enjoy working out.

When you won the first Mr. Olympia, how old were you then? Thirty four.

OK, so you had a solid eight years of lifting. You know, this is. Yeah, yeah. After you were on the force for a while.

Yeah, exactly. And I thought I would hit the base too, you know.

I mean in high school and the powerlifting now power lifting and lifting heavy is always a very controversial thing amongst bodybuilders. Right.

Because some bodybuilders never lifted as heavy as you did. No, no. What was your philosophy on that?

To each his own. You know, I'd love to have it because that's what I like to do. And that's what I was able to do. Like I said, I just was kind of like in a way I was kind of gifted to be strong like that, you know? And there's something that I was I always was. Even when I was in high school, I was benching about three fifty. Wow.

I was four and I was squatting and five over five in high school.

So that's just always something special. I yes, I was something that's been part of me.

Now what is when bodybuilders work out? For the most part, it's a lot of high reps with weight. That's not. How would you do it?

I did the same way. You know, I started out it, you know, like twenty reps, you know, warming up and then fifteen reps then like twelve, ten, something like that on my last. And have you set.

So you still were doing fairly large number of repetitions. You're doing a fairly large number of repetitions, but much higher weight than a lot of folks were. Yeah. I'm like so when I went up I squatted, I went up to like six hundred. I would do like, you know. 12 15 rests with that and bench and saying, I'll go up to like 400. 12, 15 reps with that. That's a tremendous amount of weight. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it sounds like it.

Yeah, you go up against some of these guys are doing crazy amounts of weight.

Now, you've also since then, you've had a bunch of surgeries and 13 so far. And what what started that off?

Well, I kind of hurt my back in high school when I was powerlifting. And then I heard it again in college when I was playing football at my back and neck and the chiropractor for a long time. And then one day in the gym, I heard it like in 96, I kind of herniated disc and.

I guess it just got worse over over time, so when you herniated disk, what did you do to treat it?

Nothing. Nothing with chiropractic chiropractor. Yeah, yeah. I've been doing chiropractic all my life. Yeah. So I didn't you know, I didn't have surgery. Nothing like that. When I needed that, they offered me to have surgery. I thought no.

So the surgery they wanted to do was probably trim the disk down because it was pushing against a nerve. Yeah. Laminectomy, whatever they call it. Yeah.

And so 13 of those are.

Now, 13 surgeries, eight back like two or three hip to two to the neck, and did this all, like, happen all at once, whereas, like, you feel it felt like everything was falling apart?

Or was it like you get a surgery and then you're better for a little while and then you hurt something else?

Yeah, something like that. Yeah. Because the first one was back, the second one was back. And then I think the third one was Nick. And then back back in here, back, back, back here, and what did you get done?

Do you have to get your hips replaced?

Yeah, yeah, both of them. And like, they when you get 14, I think you have 14. And how are those now?

Now, I just had hip surgery on January. It's holding a little bit better now. One one count went bad, socket broke. Oh. And they had to replace both of them.

And they say they only last a certain amount of years, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Every night I had the titanium ones and the titanium the hardest ones because they rough you, they titanium and they kind of hard on the body. Oh yeah. And because of that and you know, me working out and all this kind of stuff and it kind of just broke the socket.

Well, I follow you on Instagram and I watch workouts and it's inspiring that after all this, you still love working out. Yes, you can really tell. I mean, you enjoy it. Still a hobby.

I look forward to it every day. Does it give you any pause at all knowing that you've been through all these surgeries?

And now I know, you know, when you're doing something that you truly love enjoying doing, that's what you look forward to doing all the time. So really, goal is of, you know, how you feel. Of course, I'm still in pain and all that kind of stuff.

But are you in pain all the time?

Yeah, but as long as I'm doing what I love doing, I'm OK. You take that away, then probably OK, but just even sitting here right now, you're in pain, just a minimal amount. It's not a major, you know, if you're an athlete. You're in pain all your life. Yeah, I mean, I can remember in high school and college, you know, I was in pain some days. All the time. All the time.

Yeah. So after a while, you kind of get used to it and it doesn't really bother you.

That's why, you know, I'm imagining that you have a spectacular tolerance for pain.

Yeah, I have a hard time. Mean, I remember when I herniated my did I finished my workout. Oh, I was squatting 600. I remember like yesterday I was coming up on rep number eight and all of a sudden PEIA it was a loud gunshot sound. And I do 600 for like 12, 13 reps all the time. This time, I took a couple weeks off and I thought I was still as strong as I was, you know, when I took the time off, but I wouldn't I lost a little strength.

And that's why that deer snapped on me like that. I heard it and I felt it. But you know the athlete and you think, you know, let's go on and finish, finish this up.

So I finished up, you know, the leg press and some other exercises.

And every time after I finished working out, doing legs, I always had a real bad pain in my back every single time. But it would always go away in like an hour. This day it didn't. And I was I just went home, I put on my uniform, was headed to work. And I'm like, wait a minute, not back is her, this is two hours, almost two hours later. Something wrong? I ain't going to work today, I want emergency room.

Oh, wow, so bad. That bad. Yeah, and so he went to the emergency room, they probably like, what the fuck are you doing of this guy? Yeah, like we all see nothing wrong with your back.

They probably couldn't get to it. What they saw was an x ray and they like and we don't see anything. Hmm. So that's when I had an MRI a couple days later and found out it was honey. Mm hmm. So I stayed at home for a couple of weeks. And sat on the couch and didn't do anything. And two weeks later, I went back to the gym first exercise with squats.

Oh, my God. Did it hurt again? No, no, no, no.

I'll get ready for a show. So. So it was OK? Yeah, it was OK. Two weeks after you herniated disc, you're doing squats again. Yeah, but how much weight?

I don't. I only did 300. Oh only 300. Now that's the most I could do for 10 reps, you know.

Wow. 10 to 12 reps. So I'm like, OK, that's good enough, you know. But you knew that something was wrong. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I couldn't do 600 no more, you know. So.

So after that, how long before you got your first surgery? Ten years later. Ten years. Ten years.

So it was just intolerable pain like what's going on.

I couldn't I couldn't walk like no more like 25 feet without my leg being on fire, on my feet being on fire. And now Imola, a whole lot of pain. Wow. So I knew it's time to get some serious done here now.

So what was the did they fuse it lemon.

They laminectomy. They shaved it off. OK, so that was the first one. Yeah. Yeah. Now I was good for a while, you know, I went back to squatting and everything.

And this is while you're still Mr. Olympia.

No, you know I retired, I was I retired in 07, so I had my first surgery in 07.

OK, so this is after you retired? Yeah. You're not doing too bad. Just a little bit of pain. Yeah. So how does it all go down hill from there?

I don't I think maybe just you know, the second about a year or so later I started having problems again being in pain. The same area. Same area. So it's quiet and heavy still. Yeah, 600 pounds still that kind of stuff.

No, because I wasn't competing, so I was probably doing about four or five hundred somewhere in there. But, you know, it's the kind of heavy. Yeah. And I don't I didn't have the weight I used to have either, you know, I wasn't 300 pounds or more. So a little bit more difficult, so it just kind of went bad on me again and I had to have another surgery, same kind of surgery, they trim more off of it.

And actually. They did what you call like. I forgot, actually, what they did. It's been so long ago, it was back in like like 2008, 2009, somewhere in there they kind of like did a riff refresher like I think they did a little bit more of it, though, but. You know, the whole thing was kind of like down here from there. And so after that injury, in that surgery, then how does he how do you round up with the other 11 surgeries?

Well, I think like the first time you herniated disc. It's like you stack a bunch of cards on top of each other and you snap one out. Well, after a while, the other one going to started falling out of place to. And that's kind of what happened, you know, the other day started just deciding on the own, of course, I was working out too. Yeah. And I still have one now. You got a herniated disc now?

Yeah. How many discs of you are operated on? All of them.

All over. Every single desk. Every single one.

So this one that you have a herniated disc on now, you already had it operated on before.

Now this will be the first time. This is the last one.

Yeah. Wow. And so what do they do with you back. They basically fuse everything together now. Yeah. So the whole spine is fused.

Yeah. Wow. Neck and back. How much mobility do you have. I mean, I still, you know, bend over and Tamotsu and do all that kind of stuff.

But your back is one solid piece. Yeah. So there's no like articulation of your discs in your your spine and spinal column.

Nothing. Wow. Nothing like that. What does that feel like.

Oh I mean I guess it just feels kind of normal after a while. You know, you get used to it. It happens all the time. So it's like a gradual thing. So it's it's not all of a sudden. Mm hmm. So it's just like one day, you know. You know, I used to be able to just bend over and do all these stretches, these crazy stretches. Well, I can't do all that no more.

Yeah, no, I just bend over a little bit, you know, I do a minor stretch.

Now, the doctors, are they confident that this is the last one?

No, I mean, you've got them all fused. Yeah.

It's always something though, you know. Yeah. You know, when you an athlete and you always working out and always in the gym, it's gonna always be something. You just accept that.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. That's a used to it after a while. For a lot of people, that's a hard thing to accept this idea that you're just going to keep smashing your body.

But that's just you. Yeah. That I've got used to it. That has been so like 07 or thirteen years now.

Wow. Mhm. Now are you in this wheelchair all the time.

No, no I don't have crutches. It's just that I left them at home. I can walk maybe about from here to that wall unassisted. But you know after after so, so after being up for so long my I get real weak.

And is it because of your back. Yeah. Holding my back. Is it something that's like cutting off the nerves or. Yeah. Exactly. Wide enough. The nerves. Yeah.

And is there anything they can do about that. Oh I mean you know, maybe one day they'll come out with something that'll help get it started. I was thinking about trying to stem cell thing. Yeah. Yeah. I said that that should help a lot too right there.

Well there's a bunch of places that they do it where they could do it with a lot stronger stem cells than they could do in America, like the place in Columbia does it. And there's a place in Panama that actually sent my mom. Yeah, my mom, they wanted to give her a knee replacement and doctors just didn't want to operate right away. And I was like, let me let me see. Yeah. We can send you down to Panama.

Let me see if Dr. Reardon he'd been in here before with Mel Gibson and he was talking about Mel Gibson's dad. And Mel Gibson's dad was in real bad shape when he was 92. And then now he's 100. He's fine. I mean, just gone back there a bunch of times. Keeps going back for stem cells. Yeah. Long story short, my mom was scheduled to get a knee replacement. I sent her down to Panama and six months later, it started to feel good.

Eight months later, no pain at all. Yeah, it really did a great. And then I sent her down a second time. It's it's pretty amazing stuff what they can do.

Yeah. So that's that's the best thing to do next. Yeah. And people I talk to it, they think it will do me a lot of good.

So is it there's scar tissue around the nerves that's pushing. It's the nerves now because of all the disks are gone and everything's fused.

What's irritating the nerves, scar tissue and all that hardware.

I got 14 screws, two cages. I got to ride about this long and then to. So there's a lot of hardware, a lot of cages, and one of the cages looks like. So it's a cage around your spine. Yeah, yeah.

What what's the purpose of that? All of this together keeping in place, you know, after a while they don't want to come way, but cages around keep them together.

So you're like Robocop. And that happened much. So I got that in my neck and back.

You have a cage in your neck. Yeah. You got an x ray of any of this shit. Yeah. Is it that.

Is it online. And I posted a couple times online. Yeah.

On your Instagram page to see if you could find any of that. Jamie, that's crazy. Yeah. You was laughing about it like you're fine with it when you get used to it after all.

But is it also that you look at like you're a legitimate legend and so do you look at it like, hey, this is the price that I paid to be a legend?

I look at it like, hey, I'm still alive and I still work out every day and I'm still normal, so I'm good.

Wow, that's a great, healthy attitude, man. You're obviously still huge. You're still very strong.

Yeah, well, not as strong as I used to be. I'm not as big as I used to be, though. I'm only like 250 now.

You know, when you say that you're judging it on you being a multiple time Mr Olympias, that's not a regular person that I'm not as big as I used to be. Like, you can't say that because it's not possible.

No, no. No way. No way. No. How many like that. No more.

I bet it's nice to be able to eat when you want to eat. Half the food I used to eat, I can only imagine. Yeah, yeah. I only I used six, I only three.

Now that's a normal person. Yeah.

Have you got anything Jamie. That can be hard to find. There it is.

Oh my God. That's crazy. That's what a cage looks like. Oh yeah. Wow.

All that, that stuff's heavy duty. The size of those screws in that picture on the left. Yeah.

They're about three inches long. Two or three inches long. Oh yeah. And they got screws on the end of them. Bolts on the end of you. You can see on the in my here on that one. Mm hmm. On the left. Those are boats right there. So no. The big screws in between there too. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. That goes all the way up.

Down all the way up your whole back. Yeah.

So there's no neck to my neck. My neck is the same way. Wow, four, three, four, five and six, and so in doing this, they've saved your back, but they've all the hardware is what's fucking with your nerves. Yeah, yeah. All the hardware.

Yeah, it's pinching on the nerves, causing pain and stuff.

And what does the doctor say about that stuff? I know nothing do about that. I just it's going to be like that. I think I can take you screw that maybe one day. But if it's a major surgery they do that. Yeah.

You know, they got to cut me from always top to bottom and, you know, take all that out.

It's 14 of them that started from the top all the way down to the bottom.

Would that be possible that if they did that, it would alleviate some of the pinching on your nerves? Yeah. Yeah, sure. Have you thought about it? Yeah, I just went to the doctor and talked to him about it last week. I mean, it was he said I got another herniated disc. Oh, boy. And they need to fix that for you. Think about taking the where's the one that's hernia.

The new one is right. It's up top. They all want the lower ones already fused. Just the one on the top is the one that's herniated now.

And that was it bulging or is it herniated? He said herniated.

So I'm pushing out. I had a bulging disc that I had fixed with something called Regina King. Have you ever heard of Rajinikanth? Yeah, they invented it down in Germany. And a lot of athletes like Kobe Bryant and Peyton Manning. Yeah, they all went to Germany. It's like this blood spinning procedure. You heard of it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. They do it in America now. They have an office in Dallas. They have an office in Santa Monica.

And I went to the one in Santa Monica and they they take your blood out, they spin it and they apply some medication to it. And then it becomes this yellow serum and then they inject the. Yeah. The yellow serum directly into the area where the disc is and it alleviates all the inflammation in the disc slowly goes back into place for me within two weeks. I had extreme relief within two weeks and then now there's no no bulging disk at all.

I went back after I did the full round of treatments, which I think was, if I remember correctly, five or six different treatments.

I went back, I got a new MRI and there's no bulge anymore.

Yeah. So like what they do when they do a PR.

Yes, it is like PRP is just more advanced. It's just another level, the injection thing. Did you do the PRP. Yeah, I did. Did that help your neck at all. No, I didn't do anything for me. Yeah it did. My neck and back actually.

Well I would, I would wonder what would help you like stem cells and and yeah.

That's going to be screws out pretty much the only thing. Oh help me.

I think so. All this stuff with your legs though, that wasn't the case before the screws and before, although. No, no, no. I would imagine that's what's going on. Yeah. It's all fused upright. It doesn't have to be screwed in. Right.

No, no. That's why I went to the doctor, because they said after about a couple of years, everything would be fused up. Yeah. If you add up and I screw that up. So does the doctor want to operate on your neck as well now?

I just fixed my neck a year ago, but the new bulge, this is a new bulge in my back now. Oh, it's in your back. Yes, this is my back. Yeah. Oh, that's why that was the result of a CAT scan I had done last week.

Tim, did you you're at a hospital like every couple of weeks or is there nothing like it, though? With that? I was just want to get screws out because I'm. Yeah, you know, it's been a long time and I'm still in pain and still pinching me. And to get, you know, not being pinch. And I think, you know, my legs are numb to my foot totally now. Yeah. And I was thinking maybe if I took the screw that I guess I'm just numbness to go away.

Yeah. And I get some strength back also.

Do you think you're going to wind up doing that if possible? One day I would like to man, I'm hoping someone hears this.

That's a specialist that has a solution for you. How many different doctors have you seen? Oh, right now, just one. Just one doctor and just one. Hmm. Is a local guy near you? Yeah. Yeah. Local guy here in Fort Worth, Texas.

Also my first surgery now, like my fourth or fifth one, they operate on me for about 13 hours.

They cut me in front, tell me on the side, cut me on the side, and then they put me on my back and cut me on my back.

Jesus. And that gave me a lot of problem that started the immobility thing right there. And what was this?

Or I was I was good until I did that surgery.

What kind of surgery was as another fusion? Yeah. Why do they have to cut you in so many places?

Because they had to fuse so many death. Oh, poor then so many screws. And that was in 15, I think, wow, 16 December 15. I remember getting off the plane in Russia and Russia.

Yeah, you got that done in Russia? No, no. I remember getting off the plane in Russia and I'm like me and my back is hurting. And I was walking fine to the hotel the next day. My mobility to get worse and the day after I was on crutches. And I've been on me ever since, just so out of nowhere, I don't know where and how far out from the surgery was this?

The surgery was like the next month. Also, this is before the surgery. Yeah, this is before, yeah. OK, so then they cut you open the front and the side the back, and then everything's downhill from there.

Yeah. Yeah. Everything went downhill from there, man.

I'm really hoping that somebody listens to this and some doctor hears about this. Well, one thing is you're in Fort Worth. Dr. Reardon is actually his offices in Dallas. So it's pretty close to. Yes, very close. I'd love to connect you to him and see if there's anything that he could do.

Yeah, that would be nice. Yeah, I'm always looking to get better. So this these crutches are getting on my nerves.

I can only imagine for five years now.

And a guy who is the level of athlete that you were when you were in that time, this guy. And how old are you now? I just turned 56 two weeks ago.

But you look great. Well, I'm still working out every day and. It's good. Yeah, it would be nice if they could do something to. Yeah, I'd like to get on this background. I like to get my strength back. Yeah. I guarantee Dr. Reardon could probably help. Now, I don't want to guarantee, but he's he's a real expert and, you know, stem cells and the benefits of stem cells.

Or maybe I give him a call. Yeah, I'll connect you to for sure.

So what does a what's a normal day like for you these days?

Well, I got four kids at home. Five. Six. Eight, nine. So that keeps you busy. That keeps me extremely busy. I'm taking them to Burger King every day. And mom, I'm just, you know, riding around with them, doing what I do, you know, if I go to a car wash watch car and they with me, I go to a friend's house with them, you know, they were there with me.

So most of the time you were just walking on these crutches? Yeah, I'm always on. Yeah, I'm always on the quad, so. Yeah, yeah. I hang out with them all day.

Now that's that's that's that's my day before, you know, I was going on, I was on the road every other weekend, every two weeks, seminars and things going on, you know, all that kind of stuff.

Appearances since the virus. I've been hanging with them. They be my best friend. Are you enjoying that? Yeah. Yeah.

There's something that a lot of people found some enjoyment from this being locked at home. Yeah, it's a lot of fun. Yeah. Yeah. Because it forces you to take time off. Yeah. Yeah, I used to.

Now I got lazy and I just want to stay home now.

Well there's something nice about being home a lot. I mean I've only been on the road a couple times since this lockdown's a lot of nice things about me and it's nice.

Yeah.

And the big thing for me that I found is health like you feel better because you're not traveling all the time.

Exactly. Well, you know, I don't get sick, so. But you don't get sick ever. No, no. Never really. Wow.

I can remember like two or three days of my life.

I've been sick to find the way you said it was funny. I don't get sick like you're not talking about. I don't usually get sick.

Like I don't get sick. Oh, I don't really get sick. Wow. I get colds and flu and all that kind of stuff. I've had like a stomach flu like two or three times in my life. Wow. That's about it.

But travel on the road does wear you out, though, right?

I get a little run down. You get used to it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You did. You have any strategies to like beat jetlag or anything like that.

I don't get jet lag after a while. You don't get colds. You didn't get jet lag. Yeah.

When I first started traveling I used to get it. Yeah. But after a while you, you don't get it anymore do you.

Just get used to it. You just get used to it. So when you would land somewhere would you immediately go to the gym. Yeah. That's the move. Right. Get off the plane. Go to the gym. That does reset you. Yeah. Yeah. That's my favorite thing to do. I landed a hotel room. I have it set up like like the like, you know, after you brush your teeth. Well and I go to the gym now, that's what I do.

What I do. Yeah. That is one way it sucks.

Like you're tired, you worn out from travel. But if you could force yourself, you feel a lot better.

Well, I've made it where I can sleep on the airplane and I stay pretty good. So by the time I get to where I'm going, you know, I'm all rested up. I'm good to go now when you were competing with you. I mean, you're eating all these meals a day. Were you drinking a shitload of water, too? Like, how much water are you drinking?

Like, a shitload of water. Or like you said, I was drinking like two or three gallons a day.

Two or three gallons. Jim, I worked on it. There's no AC and it's a hundred and five hundred ten sometimes.

Oh, it's in Fort Worth and Arlington, which is right next to.

That's hot as fuck. Yeah, exactly. And then I work for the police department. I had this vest on all the time, so I was drenched every day after work. So I'm always drinking water there. So you have to drink a lot of water now, you have to as far as like supplements and nutrition and vitamins and things along those lines, you were talking about what you ate, but like, what are the stuff, what you take?

Oh, I had a nutritionist, so he did my whole plan and some of the stuff I don't even remember and he had me doing. But it was it was quite a bit of stuff.

Was it based on blood work? Let do your blood work and then. Yeah, I did blood work for like three, three times a year and he made sure I got plenty of vitamins and minerals and other things, you know, because I didn't I didn't I didn't like vegetables. So he would kind of supplement, you know, vitamins and stuff that you didn't need vegetables at all.

At all, really? No. Some people think you don't need them. There's a whole I mean, there's a bunch of people that are on what's called a carnivore diet. Have you heard that?

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah, there's a bunch of people that don't eat vegetables. They basically mostly meat.

Yeah, I would eat baked potato. And. Rice, that was, by the way, but why is it mostly chicken? Why does it want to bodybuilder's mostly chicken? Because it's so lean mean.

Yeah, lean chicken breast, you know, I mean, you can get pretty much. I also had steak at least once a day. Also laying steak, you know, like filet mignon. Hmm. So I eat chicken three times with a turkey also. And steak.

Now when the competition was over and you won, did you pick out did you go crazy?

I went crazy every single time I started out with Pizza Hut. I'd eat that first and I had it in the room when I got back and some of the pizza was over, I went to McDonald's, a pig out there.

And when we got left there, I went straight to a strip club and pig out there, the pig out there.

Now, how long would you do this before you get back to work? Oh, just that night. Just one night. Yeah. And then back to the gym on Monday. No, no, no. I took three months off after.

Oh, three months. Really. Three months with no lifting at all.

No lifting, no nothing. I don't eat and then work out into cardio.

Nothing. Why did you take that much time off.

So I felt I needed it. Really. Yeah. I was kind of like, you know, recharging the battery because I knew once I started back. When we know, you know, no, let none left in town. Is it weird to make that transition from this crazy Spartan life of 12 weeks of just hardcore training to boom? Shut it off now.

Three months now. It was nice after that where we all got training. You looking for a break? And I would imagine. Yeah. And, you know, I had also, you know, worked out before that, too. So I take off the show shows always in September. So it was like October, November, December, nothing. And then January start back up. And then when you start back up, go way to September.

And when you would start back up, do you start back up full force hardcore all over. All the stuff all over world, all. Wow, so you just had it down to a science, you knew what to do when doing.

I hurt myself that one time. Why? I didn't start all over. Hmm. So you learn from your mistakes. That was when you heard your. You know, when you stopped when you retired for good. Was that difficult to do?

Is it difficult to change your life? That's still difficult to do still. Yeah. Yeah. I've worked in the police department and. Competing both. Oh, yeah, yeah, I miss him tremendously just because of the action, just yeah. Hmm. Being having a purpose. Yeah, basically. Obviously, this is a crazy time for the police. Oh, yeah, it wasn't like that when I was police. Yeah. What was it like?

Oh, it was much easier.

Well, where you were was probably a more relaxed place.

It was some crazy people. Yeah. We had a lot of crazy people, actually a lot of crazy people. I didn't know people were that crazy to each other for us. Yeah. We had what we start with 300 sometimes when I got there, when I retired, it was about almost six hundred thousand people at Citigroup that big. Over over 15 years, yeah, I work out 15 year.

Well, we're in the middle of a crazy time when it comes to police and police brutality. And did you see a lot of that shit when you were on the job?

No, no, no, we didn't. You didn't have to mistreat people back then. At least me and most of the guys I worked with, we were all professional. Everybody had to have a four year degree. The they used the force was. Appropriately applied. So I remember I got in trouble a couple of times. Well, one time I got in trouble, well, I almost I almost used too much focus on the guy, but I got I was vindicated and all I did was just, you know, bend its own back and put handcuffs on him.

But in the process of doing that, he got a bloody nose and a bloody mouth and. Arm ripped out of socket a little bit, but, you know, you just doing what you had to do to, you know, something. Yes, I do. Yeah. So that was only the only time that I really got, you know, use of force filed against me. And I got a lot of commendation out of that because I was a writer back in the day.

I used to write for the college newspaper. And I was both said that I also. So I was good at writing, I could write real good and I could apply use of force technique that they taught me in the academy. So that report that I wrote on that used force complaint, they use that report to train recruits.

Do you think that that's what's wrong with these abusive cops? Do you think it's a lack of training or do you think it's hiring the wrong people for the job? What do you what do you think it is the wrong people for the job?

That job is so stressful. Yeah. I mean, you you have to be real confident in your abilities. To protect yourself. And I was very, very confident. I never had to even use my nightstick on anybody. Well, you know, come on. I would sometimes I would go to work looking for a fight and I was so bored, you know, and it never happened. Nobody never fought me. It's the size of you, man.

And then so all the guys that would have my side, I would just run to their fights and try to help them out.

Help them out. Yeah. Yeah. No, I would never fight me on my arm.

And they are still but still you.

Three hundred pounds. Well that's what I was in my twos. Oh to ninety. Yeah. To fifteen for. OK to 20 to 30 to 40 to 50 you know now. Well you know I have you, I got you. I went out and inspected them but when I was in my tooth I thought for sure somebody but I had when I said I had 22 inch arms. Right. And I had those uniformed elbow TaylorMade. So my arm stuck out.

Do you think I mean, there's all this talk now defunding the police. I keep hearing this about defunding the police. Yeah, I've been hearing that, too.

But I don't know if I can agree with that. Because you need the police. You need the police. You need. I agree. Yeah. Yeah, I agree.

You can't define the police. You really need the people that really need the police. Yeah.

And I love need but I will on a lot of calls. Yeah. Well I needed to be there. Right. So I don't, I don't know if I don't really agree with that.

I think they've got to get rid of abusive cops. That's what they got to do. That's what they've got to do. They got to get rid of the bad apples. Yeah. Once you get rid of the bad apples, then I think all good.

I try to explain to people when I talk about it, like, you got to understand that there's millions of interactions.

People have the cops every day and most more positive, most of them are positive.

If you get a hundred people in a room, just 100 random people in the room, what are the odds that one of them's a fucking idiot?

It's pretty good, right? Well, that's the same thing with cops. You have I don't know how many millions of cops are in this country. I don't know how many what the number is, but you're going to have a certain amount of cops that should never have that job.

They should they're they're not bullies. They don't mean associate pastor are undisciplined. They're not. They're abusive.

Yeah. They're not built for that job. Yeah. That job is not for everybody. Takes a strong mind. It takes a strong man. It takes a lot of heart.

And how many cops you think are dealing with just crippling PTSD every day and all depends on where you are.

I think. Like New York City. Yeah, like New York, L.A., you know, Detroit, Chicago, Chicago. Yeah. Places like that. Yeah, I can see it.

But I was just reading from a story about Chicago that over one weekend twenty five people were murdered.

Yeah. So we had about six, seven a year where I'm from. That's a lot better. No. Yeah.

They both had six from the day. Yeah.

I mean twenty five in a weekend. It's just crazy. And the craziest thing you ever hear. Chicago's bad.

It's bad. Unimaginable, bad.

So if you're a cop and you're in an environment like that, you're essentially in a war zone.

But Canada. Yeah, yeah. I bet you to look for going to work every day.

But like I know that worked well now today. I mean, people are so mad at cops that they just want to openly disrespect them and and yell at them.

But some people know the good cops. Yes, some people do. But some people use it as an excuse. Yeah. To say that all cops suck. And you know, that guy that I don't remember his name, the guy that killed George Floyd.

That guy is an example of everything that's wrong about police officers. Everything is wrong. Everything is wrong. He'd been doing a long time. He'd been abusing people for a long time. He had a bunch of complaints against what I heard. Yeah. But yet they kept him on. Kept him on. Yeah. Yeah.

I don't think you could have more morning like two or three where I'm from. That's how it should be. And we don't have unions and all that kind of stuff either. But once they fire you, you out of there. Yeah. I mean a lot of guys got fired from bad reports. Mm.

Why Guy told me got fired for not writing enough tickets.

That's fucked up. I was that that doesn't make any sense to me because I would have nobody speeds like what have you like they say you have to write X amount of tickets per week. What if everybody follows the rules.

And that's first time I've heard that. Yeah, that doesn't. First I, I'm still reluctant to believe that I should. Somebody that was in. A higher power, you know, well, when I when I work, they always told me you need to write more ticket. OK. OK, so I go out and buy the ticket and I'll be done with it. You know, that's my ticket.

You know, that's one more than I had my last review. So but they never say we're going to fire you, you know. Right. I'll say those other things as well.

Yeah, but is it a different police department you worked for all in the police department?

No, the guy the other guy that he worked for, the same one.

That's why maybe they were just trying to get rid of him and had to be you know, he was part of something he did, you know, cause, you know, a couple of guys I work with, they got in trouble once and they like no more. And you get in trouble again. They they fire you, hmm? They told you no more, you know, they restrict where I work, you know? I think that's how I to be 17 complaints.

I think they do a three and you out of there.

That makes sense that you. Yeah. I mean, it's such a rough job to begin with.

Yeah. And I'm from a tourist town also. You know, we got Six Flags. We had cowboy. Got Rangers'. So you you have to be you have to be good to the people there. That makes sense. Yeah, that should be the whole country be mistreating people.

That should be the whole country. I think cops should get paid more money. They should be treated better. We got trained better.

We got paid a lot of money. It was like the top five in the state are always. Well, I mean, I feel like that's the one where you're going to get really good people for the job and you have to have a four year degree, you can't have like two years in a diploma. You can have 20 years of service in another department and some work that you have to have a four year degree.

So they want people educated, very respectful. Yeah. Do a good job that's in the country.

I totally agree with, you know, having to go get hired if they would like that.

Not as many, but should not. I mean, I just feel like we're at a tipping point in this country.

I totally agree. I mean, it's it's real sad that people you call to help you hurt you.

Yeah. And all the time. All the time.

The sad, sad environment to be in. Yeah.

I mean, I feel like defunding is just going to make it worse. Make it worse. Yeah. And make it make these poor crime ridden neighborhoods even more dangerous.

Yeah. You need, you need police everywhere. Yeah. Everywhere. And I like said differently than just going to you were you. You have to have a lot of resources. You have to have a lot of training. Yes. It's a lot of training. You have to be training all the time. All the time, no matter how many years you've been there, you have to be trained up all the time.

Yeah, that's why I couldn't agree more. I mean, it sounds horrible for people to hear, but I think they need more funding. Yeah. Even though more police have fucked up, they need more education. And the more money, more money, more training.

Yeah, yeah. And I feel like they should be trained the same way the military is trained. And that way they weed out the weak people too. Yeah. Weed out the people with the weak minds. Weed out the bullies. Weed out the sociopaths.

Yeah, but. I guess it's just the heart stopped to get you know, I'm not one hit job, I say, yeah, but I think there's also just people in everything.

Every job there is just people that suck at it. Yeah. And you're going to you can't suck at being a cop now.

You know, you just you can't. But like I said, it's a lot of people do. Yeah. Yeah. It actually it's kind of hard to find good candidates sometimes.

Are you still in touch with all the guys on the force that you worked with on all the guys that work with retired. Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah. That that was a while ago. You. Yeah, I started in 1989. So you got to remember that that's what, 30 something years later. So most guys retire and like we have a 20 year retirement.

They must have really enjoyed having a guy like you as a cop on the force. I did a lot of recruiting trips for the police department, so they told me what I wanted to live. Yeah, she said you don't have to come work if you don't want to.

Really? Yeah. You just get paid. Yeah. And just wait.

If I don't go to work I don't get paid.

Oh but I was make is that I, I was making a million dollars a year being, you know Olympia so I don't need forty five think from the police department. Fifty thousand, whatever is paying me. So sometimes I didn't go to work like when I got ready for the Olympia. I didn't go to work, so they just let you take time off and then after you when you come back to work. Yeah, it was weird to go back to work.

No, no. Yeah, I remember.

Did you have your pillow?

I loved that job and I appreciate you enjoy that job. But was there was ever a time where you pull people over like, holy shit, are you Ronnie Coleman?

Yeah.

And that's why I quit pulling people over and writing tickets. That's why. Because of that. What are they saying? Is that after that?

No, not they worked out it worked patrol and I just didn't pull people over. Oh, I see. You know, that's just, you know, subjective. That's something you want to do. Oh, you can you make a decision. Yeah. Yeah. You just, you know, to Sydney, you know, you can always just answer calls. You know, there's always a disturbance. There's always an accident. I mean, there's always a fight.

Did you ever see the TV show or Steven Seagal was a cop?

No, never. I could watch. I could watch. I couldn't watch any cop shows I was being one. Really? No, because that's what you do, right? You don't want to see. It's like something you do all the time. You don't want to do it in your spare time. I understand you're looking for other stuff to do. Yeah. It was a real funny show.

Yeah.

Steven Seagal was working as a real cop for a while. I heard about it.

I heard it was the most ridiculous shit you've ever seen in your life. He would pull people over and he fucking Steven Seagal.

And, you know, it was real, real weird.

Many all of a sudden, I mean, he was in Louisiana, so he had my phone. He adopted this fake Louisiana accent, like real heavy.

Yeah.

And he not have access there, but he all of a sudden had one.

You can you can develop it from being around those people. I can imagine it seemed like he was just adding it.

Well, you know, he's a professional actor. He could, but it was just I was a cop.

He was really pulling people over. The whole thing was so ridiculous. I guess he was bored. I think he was bored. I think, you know, in between, you know, to be pretty exciting, it can be real exciting.

I mean, imagine you're a guy and you're in your house and maybe you're smoking some weed and the cops break down the door and it's fucking Steven Seagal.

Well, holding you down. Well, yeah, most of the guys, I think, trying to get away late, but I'm not looking at that guy.

I understand. But I mean part. Why are you getting cuffed? You got to be looking up, going, what the fuck are you doing here, man?

I have video of me arresting people on video also. Oh yeah. Yeah.

What do these videos and maybe training and sometime I would have a guy just follow me the whole shift and he would family the whole show and I was able to put some of them on tape. I had to get approval from the police department.

Did you put them on YouTube or something? Yeah. Oh, so they're out there right now. Out there right now. Did you learn any martial arts, anything from the police department? Yeah, of course.

What did you learn? I mean, they just taught you basic stuff, how to take people down, pressure points and all that kind of stuff, you know? So I don't it's probably not a martial artist, just like martial techniques and stuff like that pressure point.

Well, I imagine the guy like you just grabbing a hold of someone, they must have felt like they were made out of pillows.

You know what? To be honest with you, I never had to really grab anybody. That's amazing.

Nobody would never wanted to fight me.

That's that's one good, good argument for being a huge person.

Yeah. It was real good and real bad. Bad in the sense that, you know, I missed out on a lot of action.

Yeah. So you you think that I missed out a lot of bad and good at the same time, but yeah, you kind of itched for it a little bit.

It's forward every single day really. You have to remember I played football for fifteen years and you used to, you know, eye contact.

Contact. Yeah. So you, you kind of miss that after a while. You only engaged in a little bit every day. But you can't, you can't violate rights of course.

So you know. Well that shows amazing restraint that you wanted to do it every day. But he never did and never did it. Yeah.

That's maybe they said maybe once or twice. Maybe once or twice. Yeah. Yeah. But nothing serious. Nothing serious, you know. Yeah. I mean, you know, you know, puts out at home out of the socket a dislocated somebody's shoulder or something like that just because they probably had weak joints.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah they are. They say well yeah. Let's imagine this dude walking in your house right now. Look size you.

Oh my God. You were so big. That's so crazy. 315 pounds right there.

But it's just been so crazy to people. Two percent body fat. We had a lot of fat down at police department and the highest I ever got was three percent.

And that was with Cal. Yeah, callipers, did you ever do it when I had the three point thirty three with Dep't on the water? Wow, it was negative numbers.

It was minus two. That's so great. Minus two percent body fat. That doesn't make sense.

And your arms are so big it looks so you barely like your arm up to your wrist. A23 right there.

Almost 24. Yeah. I just can't imagine anything else caused by that.

Yeah. There you go. Those are the company issues. Sure. Though they fit you. Yeah. Yeah.

Everything was TaylorMade. I had the tailor so I went to the senior tailor for all my clothes and all my vests and everything.

That's hilarious. Yeah. Did you keep it and stuff. Yeah. That's been like a bodybuilder slash policemen's hall of fame somewhere.

You know, they actually took my badge and put it in and on display at the station.

Oh yeah. Oh that's cool. Yeah. Look at the size of you. Does it freak you out and you see yourself that big?

You're like, wow, now you don't really, really see you after you've had it for so long. But not, not looking at it now. I'm, I'm kind of missing it. You. Oh yeah. Really. Oh yeah. Too bad you can't stay like that forever.

Well I imagine a lot of you know, a lot of your identity gets tied into that. Yeah.

Yeah. You hate it. No, but it happens to everybody. Yeah. Well Father time is undefeated.

It's old for sure, but it's also for you. It's just the amount of destruction, all that hard training is done to your body. Yeah.

Yeah. All the fun I had in the gym, I had a lot of fun left and all that heavyweight people asked me if I had the grit. Yeah, I have some great regret.

I didn't I didn't go heavy enough really, as one time I was wondering, you know, I thought I was going to be heavy, you know, because I had that lifted already. Mm hmm. But I was squatting at this time and I didn't take into effect the gravity of the situation. And when you pull it on the floor, you know, I'll grab it when you got away up here on your shoulder, rather way down there. So that's pulling.

So when I went went down for the first time, I ain't hungry and I came back to do another one.

It's still easy, but I had in my mind, too, because I had already done too long on a daily. And I put it up and I'm like, oh, man, I could be at least three or four more that bothers you to this that it me to this day. To this day. But I went to Lake Preston there twenty to twenty three hundred pound on the lake press for eight ribs. How much? Twenty three hundred, two thousand three hundred.

That wraps eight reps. Yeah. That's on YouTube also. That doesn't make sense. Yeah, that's. We hear that you had to add it up with a calculator. Yeah.

Bring out a calculator that add up so much weight. Why would you lose so much weight?

Because I could know the reason. Yeah, this is so tequila's. Yeah. How many times have you done this before. I did that one time.

What the fuck is that. That's so crazy.

That's twenty three hundred pound. That is so crazy. Yeah. I saw a video of a girl trying to use one of those things in her knee bent backwards.

And since I came all the way back with some people that put that on there, they didn't come that far back, you know. So this is right after 800 pounds, what you've got to remember that, so I'm a little tired. I'm a little tired. Not reaccommodate. That is insane. Yeah, I mean, it was I couldn't. I can't do how many reps are you doing? Hey, I think I did eight, that's very hard to believe.

It's very hard to believe even looking at it. Look at all those 45.

Yeah, it's like 50, sometimes 50 of them.

That is bonkers, man.

Yeah, that's how much that machine specifically to do that, because the machine. You couldn't do that the first time I put it on that bar barbet. So he had to reinforce the bar.

Oh. So, you know, so I could do it. How are your knees right now? Many of the projects that I wrapped up all the time. Wow. Yeah, all the time when I went here. That's crazy that the knees are OK.

No problem whatsoever. And everything else is all. Yeah. Just go back and.

Yeah, mm, I mean, so they got you. Now, what kind of steroids were dudes doing back then?

Oh, I mean basically, you know, you got you know, you test the ball. It's just basic stuff, you know, and back then, you know, because the DEA coming in and, you know what was trying to find out what we are doing, they made us do it legally. So I'll you know, you have to go to the doctor and get all these prescriptions and you would get prescriptions for steroids.

Yeah.

What kind of steroids would they give you a prescription for, like any kind of test you need in that growth hormone? They give prescription pills. Once the DEA came in, they was like, what are you doing? What are y'all taking?

But what do you think? Like the DEA? Shouldn't you be out there catching people, selling meth? Yeah.

Why are you going after bodybuilders who are also cops?

That seems because they had kids that there were they were taking it and committing suicide. Oh, see, I didn't know what that was when I was a kid. They were committing suicide because they were getting depressed from the steriliser, coming off of it, coming off of it. Yeah, so they are trying to figure out, you know, what they are doing, what we got to get out of this stuff.

And so that's when you got a doctor that was willing to prescribe everything. So this was this while you were doing Mr. Olympian's? Yeah. So all that stuff was above board was all legal. Yeah. Yeah, everything was legal.

But I then what is is that the case now I you know what, that was just when the heat was on, you know.

I don't know, I don't I don't think they got the heat on here on the guy's down like that now.

So the DEA would come to you and you would just say, hey, here's my prescriptions. Yeah. And they would go, right. Yeah. Mm hmm. One time you didn't if you didn't have a prescription, they took your stuff.

Really? Yeah. So they'd find whatever you had taken from you. Yeah. Hmm. Yeah. How do they know where it was you told them. Oh OK.

Because otherwise they put you in jail.

Yeah. Yeah. And then searched your house and I'll get a search warrant. So I got this out.

Imagine you would have to take something to be as big as you were when you were at your house. Oh yeah. You're sure it's not really possible to be not big without it. Without it? No, no. You can't get that big in nothing. I have to is genetics. Yes. You know, look at the baseball players that have taken stuff and look at us. Yeah. You know, they they can't get that big. They're not gifted for it.

Well, they didn't try either. Right? They weren't trying to get that big guy. I, I can say they're pretty fucking big. They couldn't get that big if they wanted to.

Really. So it's a small percentage of the population that could get that bit. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

And probably by one percent they could get as big as I got home and I was the only guy. Nobody duplicated that sense, and you wouldn't be in that condition, right, and be healthy right now. I don't have any health problem outside of, you know, the back to injuries, the injuries. Yeah, my my liver and my kidneys and my heart.

It's all good. Did you while you were doing things, did you get frequent blood tests every three to four months when the doctor would go over everything and make sure everything was fine?

Everything's always everything's always good.

That seems to be the big misconception about steroids is that people think steroids, people like you taking like tons of stuff.

I wouldn't taking tons of stuff. I probably wouldn't take no more than what those baseball players were. Take it.

I'm just working out more left and working out and lifting more and gifted genetically for it.

Dorian Yates said basically the same thing. Yeah, it wasn't wasn't he was taken along.

Yeah. You know, I compared to a lot of the guys. Yeah.

People think I was taking massive amounts of stuff. If I had been taking massive amounts of stuff, I wouldn't think I'd still be here. I don't think I'd be as healthy as I am now. But, you know, besides my back surgeon neck surgeries, I'm all good and I can say in my living, my kidneys and heart and everything and still hold up real good.

Now, when you would get off for that three month period, would you cycle off of everything?

Cold turkey, cold turkey, really cold turkey. I didn't take anything and nothing. And what did you feel like over those three a.m.? Really didn't bother me a bit. So you just you got just great genetics, man.

Craziest ever.

Yeah. I mean, obviously, there's no way you could take all, you know, cold turkey. I stopped everything.

One day I'll be taking, you know, my stuff. Next day, nothing. And your body would just feel normal. Body felt normal and then bothered me a bit. That's so crazy. Didn't get depressed and nothing, you know. Yeah. Felt normal. That's just another area I still strong. Wow. I can still, you know, squat, you know, I got squat, you know, some 800 naturally.

Wow. Hmm. So you basically kept a lot of your games? Yeah, yeah, I was still 300. I'm still 300 pounds, you know, without taking all that stuff.

And so then after three months, I would slowly ramp back up, slowly ramp back up. Yeah.

And all this under doctor's supervision. All this on a doctor's supervision and all all all the while I'm getting my blood work done every three to four months.

So a lot of guys, after they're done competing, then they have to get on testosterone replacement therapy because the system is kind of messed up.

Exactly.

Did you have to do that as well? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It seems like that's just a part of the sport. Yeah.

Yeah, it is. It is. Yeah.

It's interesting, though, because like for the longest time these guys were doing these ads in magazines and they were attributing everything to some supplement that they were selling or some creatine or some this know all that stuff.

There's something if you have a little bit, but it's not going to get you it's not going to get you three hundred thirty pounds with three percent body fat.

No. And that's definitely going to do that.

Was that something that you were allowed to talk about while you were competing? Oh yeah. I mean come up. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I've talked about it. I mean I have no reason to hide it people because it seems like people are stupid and I know when you got that big.

Yes. Yeah. But it seemed like there was an era where bodybuilding kind of tried to pretend that they weren't taking that.

Yeah. Yeah. Because all those, you know, people committing suicide and taking all that stuff and. Yeah. And doing it the wrong way, you know. Not having it prescribed and all this kind of stuff. Also, the more is better for a lot of the bad stuff, right? Yeah, but there were some guys that would just say, well, the way to win is to take way more than everybody else. Yeah. And see what your body could tolerate.

Yeah. Yeah. The more you take the better you going to be.

I knew a guy like that. Yeah. And he wound up having a heart attack. Exactly.

We used to call him garden hoses because his arms looked like garden hoses for veins and he had just these giant veins all over his arms. Didn't make sense, but he was just on everything.

Yeah. Yeah. But he didn't make it to 30.

Yeah. He died before he was 30.

Some people. Yeah. They do it the wrong way. Yeah. I didn't start taking think I was 30. Well yeah I remember. I was. I was drug free for a long time. Well, I did everything naturally for a long, long time because I would say gifted, right?

Yeah. What inspired you? What made you decide when you were 30 that you had to do something?

I got tired of getting my ass kicked in competitions. Yeah. Yeah. The highs I would place like 30 third or something, you know, and after a while, you know, you competitive and you said you. The other guy's got a competitive advantage on you. Mm hmm. So let's make this thing equal.

Does this something somebody suggested to you? Yeah, yeah.

So people in the gym like Ronnie now one of the competitors suggested that to me by the name of Flex Wheeler, OK, best friend in the world.

That guy was fucking huge. Huge. You need to know everything I know. Did he really? Yeah. Mm hmm. He also got me the best nutritionist ever. That's how I want my first Olimpia, so is that how most guys find out about steroids from other guys who are competing?

If you are smart? That's the way you would do some of that. I know. Yeah. Yeah. What they're doing and somebody that's successful at it, not some dumb trainer that thinks they know, but you know, you know that one, you know, major contests and all the real experience bodybuilding at the time.

You know, I'm noosphere. New to the sport. Right. I didn't get into it till I was twenty four. You know, I think he started probably he was like 16, 17, something that I never did that kind of stuff because we didn't have it when I was wrong.

How much of a night and day difference was it once you started taking stuff.

Oh as far as the conditioning. Ninety nine days and your ability to work to put in work. No, no.

The way the condition of your body, the only thing changed was conditioning. What do you mean by strength. Didn't go up that much. What do you mean by conditioning.

Oh the way you looked.

Yeah the way I looked so like lean my definition and you know, I mean, it's kind of that's the only thing really. Well, your strength didn't go up that much. My strength didn't go that much. I was still I was out there lifting seven fifty seven hundred fifty pounds.

Wow. You know. Yeah. Well I, you know, I was still doing powerless and show when I was doing bodybuilding. Were you really. Yeah. But the same time. That same time. Yeah. That's pretty unusual isn't it. Yeah. Yeah. But you know that was something I love to do.

But those powerlifting guys are usually quite a bit fatter. They don't mind having a lot of body.

The more body fat you have, the stronger you're going to be. Why is that? Because you got more cushioning around the muscle. More water around the muscle. And all that stuff makes you stronger, gives you more energy, really, especially as you naturally gifted with strength.

So did you ever feel like it was that ever pulling you back like power lifting? Did you ever think about getting back into that again or were you just completely committed to bodybuilding?

Yeah, after a while, I kind of just got committed to bodybuilding because I was going to work full time police department, trying to do Paoletta, trying to do bodybuilding. It's just too much. And I had all these jobs, too. I would do security at Disney on Friday and Saturday nights and Toyer for oh, I would work at my apartment complex.

That might be the most dangerous spot in the world. Dennys from 12 to over the weekend. My first fight. Well it wasn't really and my first one, the one I got the use of force complaints filed against me.

Was that Dennis. Yeah. Dennis can be rough at late night drunks showing up to eat here.

And it was a drunk guy that of course. Yeah. Yeah exactly. Yeah. I'll try to resist me.

Who the fuck is over at Denny's at three o'clock in the morning. Exactly.

Nobody.

So you were 30, you started taking steroids and you won the Olympio for the first time when you were thirty four. Thirty four. So that's why four years. Yeah that's insane. Yeah.

But you got to remember the bass before that, right.

So its base and hard work and also genetics. It's also the perfect storm. Yeah.

Do you think as a bodybuilder you really need like the perfect storm of things to be a champion. You do. Yeah, you do.

You're not going to be it if you don't have it. And it's just like trying to be president of the United States. You know, only certain people are going to be for the United States. Everybody is not going to make it at a job.

Well, it's like when I look at some some Mr. Olympia's it's so hard. I'm looking at one, two, three and four.

I'm like, I don't I'm not.

You have to have an eye for. Yeah, I'd be trained. Yeah. Because I used to be the same way I thought everybody looked the same. Yeah. That's how I looked at my joints. I know exactly what you're talking about. Yeah. They all about just big. Huge. Yeah. Huge. Yeah. Everybody looks.

I could never ever attain that.

But you did. I really did. You set the gold standard. Yeah.

That crazy looking back is crazy. Looking back, do you ever wake up and just say like yeah. What the fuck did I do. I did.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because when you're doing it you always in that mindset of doing it. Yes. You're not enjoying it. Right. You just said you can't you can't sit around. Enjoy. Right. You got to stay focused and dedicated. You got to be always, you know, mindful. Yeah, you know, so there's no enjoying all that when you have success like that.

Well, I don't think that mindset, too, is the only way you become a champion like yourself. Exactly. That. Just keep going. Keeghan mindset don't do anything.

Yeah. Yeah. You enjoy it later. Yeah. After it's all over with. But I only enjoy it now.

There's such a small handful of Mr. Olympias. I mean that is the elite of the elite club to be in for bodybuilders. Yeah. I mean you got us you got to have amazing moments of satisfaction and a lot of guys that win it when it multiple times. Yeah. Why is that.

Because it is only elite number. No guys can be on that view. And once you get there you found the formula. And it takes a while for somebody to come in and knock you off because nobody's found that formula you have. No, I mean, the road for me ain't really hanging. Yeah, seven for the only six for Yates Cutler for, you know, the girls. I mean, the guy that just name. And how many years is that?

That's a lot of years. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, what an elite group of human beings is, Mealie and all is 25 years almost. Yeah. That's crazy. Yeah. And three guys. Twenty five years.

When you say the right formula, it's the right amount of training, the right amount of rest, the right amount of food, the right nutrition, all the above. Yeah. And that's hard to do. Hard to dial in and it's hard to dial it in. And did you dial it in with the help of a nutritionist and just a nutritionist.

I couldn't have done it by myself. But what about a coach like that. Same thing. But something does. Nutritionists maintain your schedule for your workouts as well.

Yeah, well, I did my own workout schedule. So you did that all yourself. Oh, myself. Yeah. Hesiod all my other stuff.

So he did all the food, made sure your body's well, well fueled, but all the weightlifting, all the world that all set up by you.

Yeah, that was great. How did you know when it's enough and when it's not enough and when it's too much. Well you can only do so much. You can only do what you can do, you know, your limitations and you know what you got to do. So once you figure all this out, you know, that's that's your formula and that's that's that's what you take from year to year in that formula is based on your body and how your body performs.

Everybody's body is different.

Did you ever have guys coming up to you? I mean, you must have had guys coming up to you saying, what's the what do I have to do to be like you all the time?

Would you tell my personal trainer that's why, you know, I wouldn't be able to do all this on my own.

The guy who gave me the free membership to the gym, Brian Thompson, the guy that taught me all this stuff, he taught me how to pole. He taught me how to train as a bodybuilder and not a paoletta. Two different types of training. He taught me everything I need to know, and he was kind of like my personal trainer. You know, if he wouldn't tell me all that stuff, I want to do nothing. And so I always tell people, just want to know something loved somebody that knows all this stuff and that's how you get the right formula.

Was this guy with you throughout your whole career? No, no. Just the beginning. Just to teach you the basics, basics. And then from then on, it was all you.

Yeah. You know, I had to get other trainers and nutritionists. I had some trainers and nutritionists that weren't that good along the way, like a couple. And I finally found the right guy from Flex Wheeler. He turned me on to the guy who helped me with my first Olympio, Chad Nichols, he he's got it. That found the right formula for me.

And when you had this right formula, how many how many workouts a day were you doing?

One, just one, yeah, just one long workout, hour and a half hour and a half every day. That's what our 15 minutes or so is, really.

Yeah. So it's just about the intensity. It's about the intensity.

And was there a time where you were working out more than that, felt like it was too much or. No, you just always had it dialed in and always had to doubt it.

Wow. You know, I had to do two hours of cardio day, two hours of cardio in the morning. And I went and I just I got to work.

Wow. Yeah. What kind of shit? Like elliptical or something. I did the StairMaster. I would do the optical and the treadmill.

You would run on a treadmill. Why am I going to call it running?

I'm just thinking you're so big if I like you. What did you do?

Just kind of walking to about three miles an hour. Oh ok. OK. Yeah, yeah. That makes more sense. Yeah. For an hour. An hour. So this just to burn off the fat. Yeah. Wow. God damn.

You must hate cardio now. No you do it. You still do it. Yeah but I would imagine that that would be enough cardio for the rest of your fucking life. Two hours a day every day, like oh my God, if I never see another piece of cardio equipment again for the rest of my life, I get used to that.

So, you know, what do you do now? I can only do I do bike now. I can I can I walk on the treadmill, but I have to hold on the handles. Yeah. So I don't do it. I have to do the bike. Yeah.

Well listen, man, after the show is over, I'm going to connect you to Dr. Neil Reardon, who is in Dallas. And I really hope that he can help you.

And it'll be great if the next time coming. I'm never giving up on you. Oh, no. I know you're not giving up on anything, man. Guys like you don't give up on anything. I'm going to walk again unassisted. I guarantee that. I believe you. If anybody can do it, you can do it. Yeah, exactly. And I can't do it. It can't be done.

I want to connect you to him and and wish you the best of luck. I appreciate you, brother.

Thank you for inviting me. Oh, I got a new book out. Oh OK. It's called Yeah Buddy. Yeah buddy. My thing is when I say get it on Amazon and my company is running Copeman signature series. That's how I make my living now. I own my own supplement company, Ronnie Coleman. That net is that. And a book is called. Yeah, but it's one of my favorite saying but yeah. But in my incredible story and get on Amazon.

All right folks, go get that book. Go to Ronnie Coleman Dotcom, that dot com that gets in. We got twenty five different products. Beautiful. I hope we sell a bunch of them. Oh thank you. We have been selling a bunch some more. Thank you brother. Appreciate by David Coleman. Ladies and gentlemen, your buddy. That was great. Thank you friends for tuning in to the show and thank you to our sponsors. Thank you.

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All right friends, we did it. Thank you so much for tuned into the show. I appreciate all of you. We're listening, love to you all. Bye bye.