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If anybody's got the answers, it's Chocho got the answers. Oh, I'm not quite so sure about that.

I'm not sure how this movie ends. This is the dumbest fucking movie. Do you know magic? The gathering is now racist.

I don't know what magic the gathering is. Some game that the nerds play.

Oh sorry. How is it. How is it racist. I don't know. It's just I only saw the title of the article that they're trying to cancel Magic the gathering. I'm like, oh Christ.

I thought that's what you guys liked. I thought they liked magic. The gathering. I have no idea. Everything's everything's everything's problematic. Everyone's getting canceled. It's amazing how many people did blackface.

Yeah, it's very strange. It's very strange. It's very strange. I mean, it was on prime time TV, right?

Yeah. A bunch of times. Yeah. I mean, like in the modern world, primetime TV, Jimmy Fallon was doing well.

He's doing a Chris Rock impression, which, by the way you used to be able to do. When I was in high school, my friends were Mr T for Halloween. Nobody gave a fuck. Nobody was like, Jimmy, what's wrong with you? Everybody's like, oh, you're Mr. T for Halloween. It was never like a problem.

It's very it's a very strange thing, you know, like you can do white face. No problem here. What is magic? The gathering invoke prejudice card.

So that's a it's an enchantment card which restricts the casters opponents only using summons that matched the skin color of their opposing creatures.

Oh, this is if you brought me on to talk about this, I should leave now about about magic, the gathering. And this is why I'm here, man.

We're in a bad way, shows how fucked up everything is.

There's a lot of things going on out there right now, apparently.

I just don't I mean, it seems like a perfect storm. Like if you want to engineer the downfall of society, you would do it in several steps. You'd have a reality show president where everybody's mad at them, and then all the liberals get their feathers in a ruffle and everybody gets real super uptight. And and then there's this big divide between the left and the right that's kind of, you know, manufactured.

And then you have this disease just like everyone inside.

Yeah, unprecedented lock shut down the economy, force people to not work. So if your business falls apart, you could be the most hard and diligent, disciplined person who's always at work on our early, always has your I's dotted and your T's crossed and you still go broke.

You're still fucked. And then you have this George Floyd thing and then boom, it just ignites the power.

The other thing that you have to wrap around all this is this social media, which is, you know, I'm only going to post things that are just going to completely make everyone that sees whatever I'm posting emotional and and filled with rage, whether you're on the left or you're on the right.

My goal is to enrage people. That's the goal. And then not just get spun up over and over. So you're taking all these little incidents and you're multiplying times, thousands and thousands of views. No.

And and then on top of that, mainstream media is the same thing. Right?

It's not like there's this huge. Difference between what the mainstream media shows and what social media, they're both exposed, almost emotional media, just trying to make people emotional, which is the worst possible thing. No one makes good decisions when they're emotional. No, I spent my adult life trying to train humans to not get emotional in pressure situations. Why? Because it's going to end up bad every single time. Every single time. And yet that's what our that's what our society is based on right now.

But it's based on these emotional reactions. Yeah.

Because of social media, I think, and because of things like YouTube and user created content where anybody can kind of make videos. So many things are vying for folks attention that mainstream media has resorted to click bait type shit, whether it's New York Times articles, which, you know, used to be beyond reproach, that they're they've gone social justice warrior and click Baity and all these other websites are one hundred percent click Baity. That's the only way they can get people to pay attention.

Like I saw like the dumbest fucking article. I couldn't believe how dumb it was. It was an article on Ozark is like, has Ozark been canceled? And I'm like, fuck, they canceled that show. That shows amazing. So then I click on the article. The entire article is about a guy who couldn't find season one on Ozark because there was a glitch and then he found it. And so it's not. So the whole article is just bullshit.

But they got me.

They get everybody they got you to click their advertising dollars because they can show the engagement with the audience.

Exactly. Well, here's a good one. CNN showed a guy got shot yesterday in San Bernardino.

Hispanic man got shot in San Bernardino. So that's the title. The title of the article is Hispanic Man gets gunned down by the police in San Bernardino. Would they leave out?

Is the guy had a gun and was shooting at the cops. So this guy's got a gun. There's photos of this gentleman with a gun and there's a cop on his knees about to shoot the guy, the guy standing in front of a gas station. There's gas pumps. I mean, I maybe felt like they wouldn't shoot at him because the gas tanks were right behind him, though the pumps were on them. But why would they leave that out?

Guy with a gun in a gunfight with cops dies is the right title, not Hispanic man gunned down by cops like they're literally trying to incite anger and violence. They know that. You read that and you see a Hispanic man shot by cops like these motherfuckers. They're murderers. They won't stop.

And they leave out this picture of this man with a gun pointing it. You're looking at me like I'm going to say some kind of really profound answer. I got nothing for you because because you're exactly right that what is it? What do they set up that headline for?

It's outrage. People, anyone that actually opens it up and reads would actually probably say something like, hmm, sounds like the cops did a good job on that one and killed a bad guy before he blew up a gas station and it killed a bunch of innocent people. But that's that's obviously not that I would think if you tried to write a headline the other way, but how these heroic cops faced man with gun eliminate him before he can cause terror in this neighborhood.

That would be a nice headline to read.

But you're not going to see it not today, because it's not going to drive enough people crazy today.

If your wife tweets, all lives matter. You can get you can get fired. It doesn't even have to be you anymore. All lives matter. Just imagine a time where saying all lives matter is so controversial that you could get fired.

Didn't that happen to a soccer player or something? Yes. A soccer players wife tweeted something like that.

Yeah, the guy who runs the Kings are the guy who's the commentator for the Kings. They fired him, you know, and then this is a lot of it, is this right?

So people are feeling a certain way and they're not they're not like this girl that wrote All Lives Matter. Do you think that was her clandestine way of showing that she's all about white pride? You know what I mean? Now, she was thinking, hey, everyone matters. She's probably having some nice thought.

You know, she's but then all of a sudden, no, this chick is evil, right, for doing this. And I think there's a lot of that. I think there's a lot of people that I think most people are. Pretty sane, I think most people are pretty reasonable. I think, you know, anybody looking at at the George Ford case is like, yeah, that's completely wrong. That's disgusting. It's horrible to watch. I haven't heard anyone say anything other than that.

So how are we just getting so completely divided on this whole thing and start attacking people, start attacking each other just over and over? Absolutely everything.

That's a good point, because this is literally a case where no one is saying there's nothing wrong with that cop.

Did no one no one zero zero people, but yet everybody still at each other's throats.

Zero people have have stuck up for that guy in any way, shape or form.

Even law enforcement, no law enforcement people saying, you got to understand, this is how you control a man.

You got to lean on his neck for about eight minutes. Forty, forty.

Forty five seconds. Forty six seconds. No one saying that.

And unfortunately, what you know what you know what they're saying. They're saying defund the police. Yeah. They're saying no more chokeholds. Right. Which I think is crazy. Is crazy. Yeah. If you want to get someone to be under control and you can't choke them, you know what you have to do?

You have to hit him in the head with a baton. Yeah. Seven times. And you got to risk giving him brain damage, permanently injuring them if people know what they're doing.

I mean, obviously, if people know what they're doing, we'll put a chokehold. But the wake up, they'll be cuffed. We're all good.

Yeah, obviously.

But, you know, it's the people that are doing it wrong is the problem the people that shouldn't be doing in the first place. It's untrained people. It's but if you're if you're not, you're a cop and you're in a fight for your life and you can't use chokeholds.

That's fucking crazy. Insane. You're going to get shot and killed or somebody else is going to get shot and killed. Someone's going to take your gun. Yeah.

And the idea of death on the police and I understand the premise. OK, and this is once again where.

Many people that say death on the police, they don't mean, hey, just get rid of police. Of course, there's a there's a fraction of people that are saying death on the police means we don't want any more police anymore. There's a portion of people saying that there are some people are saying, well, if we defund the police, we can relocate some of that money and we can do, you know, better schools and we can put money into the infrastructure inside these neighborhoods.

But here's the problem. You know what the police need more than anything else.

They need money for training.

And the way the police departments are set up, they do the most ridiculously miniscule amount of training for what their job is.

So, as you know, I was in the SEAL teams. We would train for 18 months, 18 months. We were trained to go on a six month deployment. Cops, they train, they get like two hours or four hours of combatives training a year.

A year. That's that's complete insanity, insanity, it's complete insanity. The thing I've been saying is cops should train one fifth of the time, one fifth of the time you should be training, whether it's two hours a day, four times a week, or whether it's one day a week where you're going to go and you're going to go through scenarios. You're going to do combatives, you're going to work with munition, you're going to do de-escalation drills because it's really hard.

I mean, being a cop is I think is the hardest job in the world. And by the way, they're not going have to worry about defending the police because no one's going to want to be a cop anymore who is going to be fired up to be a cop right now?

Who's going to think, you know what, when I grow up, I want to be hated by entire, you know, by a massive portion of the country. I want to be viewed as someone that's that kills innocent people. The recruiting in cop for police is going to go down so hard. It's going to be ridiculous. It's going to be ridiculous. And then who you getting there?

You're going to get people that are worst level people, worst level humans are going to show up to be cops.

So the training piece, though, they should do very, very scenario driven training, right where you come into a room. And this isn't like super expensive stuff either. You come into a room, there's a person there, they appear to be compliant. You ask, you learn how to talk to them. You very quickly learn that instead of yelling them out of the out of the gate, you say, hey, man, what's going on? Hey, what's your name?

You know what's going on? We got a call here. Is everything OK? You immediately de-escalate. Then you learn what to do when they're not when they don't respond the way you want them to respond, then you learn what to do when they start to do something drastic. What's the best thing for you? And you play through these scenarios?

It's just like jujitsu in the fact that what makes jujitsu good, what makes jujitsu good is we can go hard against each other over and over again and not really get hurt, not really get killed. So you get really good at it. That's what you need to do in training for police. You need to go through these tough scenarios over and over again because you do get better at it. You do get better at it. You become you learn how to mentally detach and not get emotional and realize that there's other things that are happening.

When you see the the George Ford case, a couple of other cops, too, I think two of the other guys were complete rookies. Right. They had been on the force for a very short period time.

No one in that group of four, obviously, you got the killer himself.

He's he's actually conducting the act. But all the other guys are not paying attention. They're they're all emotional themselves. Hey, stay back. And and they're probably watching him saying what's why is that guy moving? And they're just caught up in it. Whereas if someone would have showed up on the scene or one of those guys had been through some good training in their life, they would have said, what's happening here?

Hold on. My partner over there has been on this guy for two minutes. He's not moving anymore. I'm going to walk over and say, hey, man, let me take over. I got this dick. Go over there, decompress. This takes training. You have to train people. And I got I saw this over and over again in the SEAL teams training guys. You get a young kid that's coming through training for the first time and they go into a room and they're getting shot with simulation bullets or there's someone yelling and screaming or that we put we put Arabic women come in walking out of rooms.

We'd have people get blown up with wounds. We would do this to them over and over again.

So they realize, OK, I just got to relax. I got to take a step back. I got to detach from this situation so I can process what's happening. And I can make a good decision because as I said earlier, no one is making a good decision when they're panicked, when they're freaked out, when they're scared as a jujitsu guy, when someone puts hands on you, you're not actually scared, right? You're like, oh, OK.

I know what to do here.

If you don't know jujitsu, if you've never had someone grab you before or you haven't had someone grab you in seventeen months or fourteen months, no one's laid hands on you because you've got a badge and a gun. So people, when you tell them do something ninety five percent of the time they go, OK, yeah, I want to get in trouble. But then somebody grabs you. You're instantly your, your emotions are spiked, your adrenaline spiked and the only way to overcome that is through consistent training that that happens on a regular basis.

You can't just train somebody one time. It's like ring rust. You know, you can't just train somebody one time. And oh, now I don't need to train anymore. No, you need to do continuous training. So so that fact right there, if we want to if we want to help the police through these situations, we need to invest more money into them. We need to get them better training.

We need to pull them out of the field to train. And pull them out of the field to decompress because. You ever done a ride along? No, like you, whether you're doing a ride along, whether you're going into any situation where you're thinking you could be killed and even if it's just a remote chance. But you're doing that all the time. All the time.

And you're here and you're seen on the news, you're oh, you hear this? Your buddy got shot. Your buddy got whatever this other guy got, you know, take his gun taken away. Like, that stuff happens. That stuff happens. People get killed. I mean, there's been I think there's been 31 cops killed. This year, 31 cops killed this year and a lot of those that's not including, you know, like a car accident or covid, there's been a bunch of covid, but just people that have been engaged with bad guys and they got killed.

So you're a cop. When another cop gets killed, you're thinking that could be you.

So that's your mindset. And that mindset builds in. That mindset builds. And you're working 10 hour days and you're working 12 hour days and there's no training and there's no brakes.

Where do you end up right? Where do you end up? You end up being a little bit paranoid. You end up being a little bit angry. What happens when you get in a fight with your wife? You know, it's like all these things. You add them together. It's a freakin hard job. And from a from a like an entire. Systemic way of training and recruiting and and keeping police ready to do their job, whatever that job entails, because let's face it, most of the time that a job entails.

Well, I guess most of the time it entails, hey, I'm going to go have a bad I'm about to go have a bad relationship with another human being. That's what's about to happen. Right. Whether I'm pulling you over, whether I've been called to your house because you were yelling and screaming and people heard your wife screaming or whatever, that's what's happening. I'm showing up in a bad relationship. You don't like me and I really don't like you.

That's where we start. That's where we start. So we've got to train people for that. We also got to train them for all the times that they go in to help people save people. They're the first people on the scene at car accidents. People are bleeding out. We got to train them for that. And then they have to also be trained for, hey, this is a bad guy that's going to this is the guy that you just talked about at a gas station with a weapon that wants to kill a bunch of people.

You've got to be prepared for that whole spectrum as a police officer. And yet we send them to a three month long police academy and then we send them out in the street. And that's what they do. Day in, day out, day in, day out. It seems to me that they need to be vetted too much better than they are now, just like the SEALs, like you can't get through buds unless you are a superior human being, you have to be able to tolerate a bunch of shit that most people are going to fall apart during.

And this is this seems to me is a great way to weed out people that just don't have it.

Yeah, there's one thing that's interesting. Just from a physical perspective, most police departments don't even have a minimum physical requirement to continue to be on the force. You have to be at a certain level to graduate from the academies. But oftentimes there's no standard beyond that.

Yeah, I've seen cops before the like. This is hilarious. Like, what is going to stop someone from closing the distance on you? Like you can get into that gun.

Yeah, but the mental aspect is stuff that you can get better at. Yes, you can get better at it, but you only get better at it through training. Right. And you only get really comfortable through training a lot. And yet we put these people in these horrible positions over and over and over again. And we we don't give them the proper training.

And now there's politicians that because of the current social climate, they're encouraged to want to defund the police. That's a great way for them to get brownie points from their constituents.

The people want the police to fund it, which is it's the dumbest idea I've ever heard in my life.

It's so crazy that this is actually gaining steam to the point where in Minneapolis, because they're trying to quiet down the mob, they've actually gone ahead and done it. What the fuck is Minneapolis going to look like in a year from now, it's going to look like Mad Max is going to be crazy. It's going to be it's going to be crazy. It's going to be you know, criminals will go there to commit crimes if there's no if there's no police there.

Are you crazy, by the way? That's Djogo Energy drink is the shit.

That's very legit, right?

Yeah. I just don't understand where they think this game ends. I don't think they've planned it out. They're not playing chess.

The other the other thing that, you know, you're talking about this brownie points for the politicians and and there's brownie points and there's people trying to create sides. It's my side versus your side. And that's a completely political thing. Right. And all that does is increase the divide between the police and the civilians. And this reminds me a lot of of a counterinsurgency right to counterinsurgency. The insurgents are, you know, bad guys inside of a country.

The country's not bad. There's some bad guys in the country. So what you have to do is you actually have to go out and build relationships with the good people inside that country so that the good people inside that country can help you get rid of the bad people.

What happens if you go out? And so this is Ramadi, Iraq. This is my last deployment to Iraq. There's a bunch of just totally normal good people, Iraqi people that are living in the city of Ramadi. What do they want to do? You know what they want to do? They want to send their kids to school. They want to run their little market. They want to do whatever that whatever it is that they do, that's what they want to do.

They have the same goal as a normal family. They're just a normal bunch of people. And inside that group of people, there's a bunch of bad people. And these are insurgents. Some of them are foreign fighters. Some of them are foreign regime elements from Saddam. But they're bad and they want to create chaos and mayhem.

So Americans, we go in there.

If we go in there super heavy handed and while I go to capture or kill one bad guy, I kill or maim a couple of those normal civilians.

What happens?

Well, a couple those normal civilians, family go, wait, you guys aren't good. You guys are bad. You guys just killed my brother and he didn't do anything wrong.

And then we do it again and then we do it again, and then we do it again, and each time that we do this, where we're creating more animosity from the local populace, who, by the way, like I said, they're just not good, normal people.

So what we had to do is really focus on going out and building relationships with the local populace. How do we do that? And one of the things this this happened after I left. But you remember the surge that took place and they sent a bunch more troops over there. Part of the reason that they sent that surge and part of the reason that that was allowed to happen was because the battle of Ramadi, where I fought, went very well.

And since it went well, people said, well, maybe, maybe we can pull this off. So they sent more troops. And one of the directives that General Petraeus gave is he said there can be no more drive by counterinsurgency. And what he meant that by that was when you go to a neighborhood, you can't just drive through the neighborhood in your Humvee and your bulletproof Humvee with your windows up, drive through show of force and then leave that.

That doesn't work.

What you have to do is stop your vehicles. You have to get out. You have to talk to the local populace. You have to ask them what's going on. You have to ask them if they need anything. You have to build relationships with the local populace, the good local populace that just wants those insurgents out of there. And that's what I don't see happening. And the more we increase this divide between the police and the civilians, the worse that's going to get.

And so the police have to start doing a better job of outreach of, hey, you know, I asked you if you did a ride along. They should be offering Ride Longus all the time to the local kids, 17 year old kids, 15 year old kids. Hey, come and see what my job is like. Come and help me out. That 15 year old kid, he knows who the bad actors are. He knows who the good kids are.

You know, bring that kid along on a ride along. Let him see what it looks like from your angle. Get out, meet the parents, meet the families. That's where we're failing to build relationships between the police and the civilians.

And that causes that that that causes these problems.

I think you're 100 percent correct, but I don't hear anybody repeating what you're saying. That's what's terrifying to me. I think everything you're saying is logical. It makes sense. It comes from experience. I don't hear anybody saying this.

Yeah. And I well, I think maybe it's because people just don't recognize what's happening because they're too in it right there, too in it. They're they're wrapped up in it. And and that's another part.

You know, I talked about recruiting. Who you recruiting, recruit those kids, recruit those kids. But you have to build a relationship with them before you can add before anyone is going to go into the police.

And, look, I think it's I think it's the L.A. Police Department. If you look at the L.A. Police Department compared to the racial makeup of L.A., they they're pretty equivalent and they're pretty equivalent on purpose.

They do that for a reason. So you got to get that. You've got to continue to build that those relationships so that we talk to one another.

You know, we actually communicate with each other because any time, you know, I'm allowed to sit over here in my ear and you're sitting over there in your area.

We're building animosity, we build that kind of animosity between each other and now the littlest thing, the littlest thing, I mean, there was a woman that was killed in Minneapolis like two, three years ago.

You remember this one? Yes, female.

A yoga instructor called the police. The police called the police to report a disturbance. Police showed up and there's no video, no footage. She gets killed by the cops. She gets killed by the cops. It's insane that that these things happen, but we also have to remember. What like I said, what is a police officer thinking about and what kind of training and we give them and what kind of psychological screening to your point, what kind of strike?

And it's not just one time psychological screening because guess what? People get burnt out and it happens at different times to different people. You take 35 guys in combat. I've got some guys at the end of a six month deployment. You know what they're telling me? Can I stay longer? I'm doing fine. You get one month into that deployment. You've got other guys that are saying, hey, do you need anyone to head home early? Right.

That happens. So you think in a police force of a thousand people or whatever size your police forces, you're going to have some people that are steady, mentally stable.

They can deal with it. They can go. They can they can be an officer involved shooting today and tomorrow they can go back to their job and be perfectly fine. There's other people they can never work again after they're in an officer involved shooting. What kind of investment are we making into this psychological health of police?

And look, I hope it doesn't sound like I'm sitting here just putting it all on the police because everyone is playing a role in this. And one of the things that you need to look at as well as how to get arrested. Right. There should be a public service course on how you should get arrested, this is what you should do if the cops are pulling you over, if the cops ask you if the cops approach you about something, here's what you should think.

One of the things you should think is OK.

This copy may not be bad. This copy may be looking out for my welfare right now, that's a great hopeful thought. The other thing that you have to think is kind of worst case scenario, this cop might be agitated. This cop might be looking for somebody that fits my description. This cop, my buddy, just been in a fight with his wife. He might have just lost a partner. There's a million bad things. Use that scenario in your head.

Use that scenario in your head to to to contemplate how you're going to interact with a police officer, which is, you know, what they're looking at. They're looking at your hands. You know why? Because that's where the threat comes from. The threat comes from your hands. So when you're making quick movement with your hands, don't do that. Listen to what they say. Move, move slowly when you move. This should be public service.

The police should be putting out. Hey, if you interact with the police, we hate to have to say this, but since our police sometimes are in bad situations, here's some things we recommend and we highly suggest and we beg we beg that you do this. We beg because what happens to these cops when they kill somebody? What happens to them? Their lives are totally destroyed.

Well, that was the thing about that guy in Minneapolis. He already killed people. He'd already been involved. And I think it's at least two shootings and he had more than a dozen complaints against him.

Yeah, not good.

Not obvious by the end, but the end result. Yeah, that's the type of guy he was. It's pretty obvious by the fact that he was able to do that to a man.

The guy's literally calling out to his dead mother. You know, I mean, the type of man they can stay on someone's neck while they're doing that, when all that guy did was have a counterfeit 20 dollar bill, that's it.

This is where when you talk about psychological screening, and that's why I'm saying it has to be it has to be constant. Yeah, because. People people change, right, and red flags, I mean, like you said, hindsight's 20, 20, we're looking at this case now. We're going, oh, who the hell lets this guy continue to police? And by the way, interestingly enough, if you talk to internal affairs at police departments, the vast majority of the complaints that they get about other about police are from police.

So they complain. They report each other. That's little known fact. Most of the most of the reports don't come from the civilians out there saying, hey, this happened or that happened. This time it's cop saying, hey, this guy was out of line here.

Well, that's that's a good sign. It just it doesn't look rosy when I'm looking at the future. I don't see a way during this climate.

What what scares me the most is I don't see a way if we don't talk to each other, that that's where there's no solution. Because, you know, look, for every 10 viral video that you see of a of a cop hitting somebody with a baton or a riot or throwing something through a window for every ten of those viral videos, there's another viral video that has, you know, the guy with the free hugs t shirt on that's out talking to the cops and saying, hey, you know, I get it.

And they're communicating with each other and talking. And when you communicate with people, it's just like a hostage rescue. Basic technique. You want to humanize, you want to humanize instead of dehumanize. And right now we're just dehumanizing each other completely. And that's what scares me more than anything else, is if we can't talk to each other because, look, you take the most hardened soldier in war, some, you know, some bad ass soldier that's done, four deployments, six deployments, whatever.

And you put him into a room with a kid and a mom, an Iraqi kid and a mom or an Afghan kid, a mom. And you put them in that room and say, hey, sit here for 15 minutes and find out what they're about. Here's an interpreter. That that guy's going to come out of there going, yeah, I get where they're coming from. And same thing, vice versa. You take a hardened jihadist and you say, hey, talk to this guy over here about what he's trying to do inside your country.

But just just just talk to him when you open up the communications. And are you going to get some extremists on both ends? Yes, you will. So maybe I should have said the most hardened soldier in the most hardened, because you know what? The most hardened soldier becomes a killer, becomes a killer.

That that happens happens all the time. You know, I, I, I should say it happens all the time. It happens from time to time. That's how you get the My Lai massacre. It happens the most hardened jihadist. They're not going to change their mind. They're not going to come to any any rose colored view of America. But barring those total extremes, you've got people you've got few other human beings. And if you can get them to talk to each other, they can find consensus, they can find common ground.

But if they're not talking to each other, then we don't move, make any progress. And what to your whole kind of point about what's happening right now? There's less and less communication between people, open communication, because if you if you talk to someone and they say the cops did this, this and this. And you say, oh, OK, explain to me what happened. Tell me what went down and then you say, hey, let me tell you what it's like for for a cop being a cop.

When he sees that when he sees something going on, you know, how many domestic violence cases happen and the person shows up and they're getting assaulted by both parties.

Mm hmm. So maybe that's what you this cop was thinking when he showed up and saw your mom in this situation and did this to your dad. Right. Like, this is real conversations, but we don't we don't have them. And not only we don't have them, it seems like. It seems like there's forces that are actively trying to prevent us from talking to each other, from sitting down at a table and saying, hey, man, what?

Tell me what's going on?

What forces? Who wants who wants the country to be divided?

It's the people that you're talking about. Earlier than that, how do they score points? How do I score points with this group? How do I score points with the other group? It's by making making everything as divisive as possible. It's horrible to watch, man. It's sickening to watch.

I was reading a whole series of tweets where there's a journalist that was talking about how cops shooting black men is a real problem. But another real problem that's not being discussed by this Black Lives Matter group is black on black crime. And how do we stop all the murders that are taking place in Chicago?

And this this is something that should be discussed. And this guy was getting attacked.

And one of the one of the another journalist just literally tweeting at him, saying, you have been told not to discuss this.

But yet he ignores these commands.

He should not discuss this a very real issue, as if somehow or another bringing up another issue that is also a problem diminishes the original issue of this guy getting killed by cops, which of course, it doesn't.

Yeah, but this the idea is that there's problems, there's real problems. And it's not just the cops killing these people. There's there's look, the cop killed this guy in Minneapolis. He didn't do anything in Seattle. How the fuck did that should happen in Seattle? Well, it happened in Seattle because of this reactionary world where where one person does something somewhere, it gets through social media, it gets through the mainstream media, it becomes this this huge inflammatory subject.

And then the next thing you know, windows are getting smashed, things are getting lit on fire. Cars are getting turned over, blocks are getting taken. And that's where we find ourselves.

I think it was May 29th, there was a cop killed, I want to say, in Texas, and he was killed when they rolled into a scene. They got they got a call, hey, suspicious person running through the neighborhood. They roll up on the scene. They start a couple. A few cops are now searching for this guy and they see a building with an open door. They go, OK, let's say that maybe he's in there.

Let's go clear this building with an open door. They go in this building with an open door. There's shots fired. One of the cops killed one of the other cops.

So, so, so just, you know, friendly fire death. That right there, if you if you take that and you just extrapolate that over how hard it is to be a police officer, that you can be going into a building and you shoot one of your friends because you think they're bad.

That is a real problem. That's how hard this job is, my point is that's how hard this job is. But. We have to do a better job of explaining that we have to do a better job of explaining how hard this job is as far as the hey, don't talk about black on black violence.

I was trying to I was talking with my podcast, Bro Echo Charles, who's a black guy, and we were talking about that. And I said, you know, I think it might have a little bit to do with this.

If you were if you're watching UFC. And there's two guys that are fighting and.

The round ends like just just at the end of the round, all of a sudden the referee comes in and like punches one of the like just just moiety kicks a guy in the head and knocks him out.

Everyone would be completely, utterly outraged about this. Right, because, of course, that guy wasn't in the game, what the little guy doing. Right. So I think there's a little bit of that. That's that's the the referee is supposed to not do that. Mm hmm.

And when you see a cop, the thought is, hey, that guys like that guy is viewed as a referee. That guy's not supposed to be doing this. So I think that is kind of where some of that that that outrage comes from, because this is a cop. This isn't supposed to be happening here. This guy is. No, not supposed to be killing people.

Right. And he did. There's also the cop is just a person who has extraordinary power. Yes, extraordinary responsibility to. But what's terrifying to me is that what I'm looking at, this idea to defund the police.

And then I'm thinking like, what are these what are these neighborhoods look like if you wind up doing that? And then how do you get back out of that? What do you do, refund the police? You do ramp it up and do it better next time. I mean, this is a long process.

You're looking at a lot of trial and error here over, you know, perhaps multiple years before they figure out what what they fucked up.

Yeah, and I know there's some there's some city I think it's in New Jersey that Camden. Yes. That completely disband dismantle their police. But then they rebuilt a new police department. And I actually get that, like you could get a department that was so completely and utterly corrupt that you said, you know what, we're getting rid of all of them.

And you ever see cocaine cowboys? No. Great documentary. But one of the things it talks about is the corruption during the cocaine era of the 80s where the entire graduating police force, the entire from the police academy, the entire graduating year, everyone was either murdered or went to jail for corruption.

Everyone, the entire graduating class, that's how bad it was. So if you have that kind of that kind of problem, I guess you might want to dismantle that police force.

You know what happens in the SEAL team sometimes? Sometimes there's a platoon that's so bad that they just they just dismantled the whole platoon.

How often is that? Very rarely. But it does happen really now. And what causes them usually there? Well, the problem is bad leadership. It's always bad leadership because you can take a bunch of knuckleheads and you give them a good leader and they'll do they'll do fine. So it's always comes down to the leadership. So sometimes they'll replace a leader. But if the and usually when they replace leader, you'll watch that platoon will turn around almost instantly because someone steps in and says, all right, here's what we're doing.

Here's how we're doing it. And they they make that change. But sometimes you have just like a bad platoon and they say, you know what, you guys are done.

It seems incredibly difficult to be a good leader. One of them, one of the more interesting things about what you're doing with your platform, whether it's your podcast or the Instagram videos that you put out, you're showing what good leadership is.

There's not a lot of people when you look at if you get a thousand people, how many of those people are going to be a real good leader?

Well, this is what's this is what has become my career after the SEAL teams, because I got very, very lucky in the SEAL teams. Very, very lucky. First of all, my whole career was just luck. I was the luckiest guy ever in the SEAL teams, and I happened to be in the right places at the right times. And I got some great experience in some very tough situations. And then the last thing that I did in the SEAL teams for almost the last three years I was in was I ran the training, the tactical training, not the training where guys carry boats on their head and carry logs around.

But I didn't do that. I didn't I went through it, but I didn't run that training. I ran the training where everything I was talking about your running scenarios, you're putting people in bad situations, you're using simulation, you're doing all these things.

So I got to see over and over again leaders get put into pressure situations and how their leaders responded and then how the team responds to that leader and what these different things wash out, how they wash out.

And what's interesting is and what I really realized when I was in that position is that their leadership is a skill and you can get better at it now, just like fighting, just like jujitsu.

There's certain people that have a natural propensity to be good. You got some let's say someone's really strong, right? They're going to have an advantage. Let's say someone super flexible. They're going to have a little advantage. Let's say someone has their big right. These things are advantages in fighting, in leadership. It's the same thing. Let's say someone is super articulate. That's helpful. Let's say someone doesn't have a bad temper. That's very helpful. But everyone is at a different level.

Well, just like you can take a bunch of different sized and shaped and athletic ability people and you can make them better at fighting. You can take a bunch of people with different levels of leadership characteristics and you can improve them. And then there are actual moves. There's actual moves that you can do as a leader that are just like a jujitsu move. Oh, Joe comes to me and he's yelling and screaming at me that he didn't get the he didn't I didn't give him two extra people to go on his job instead of me going, Hey, Joe, shut up.

You don't know who you're talking about. Instead, I actually listen to you, right? I listen.

You say, well, hold on. I didn't know you needed that many people. What do you what do you need them for? So I show a little sense of urgency. I kind of reflect what your emotions are. So I'm not just creating a fight between you and me, because if you and I are fighting, you and I are not finding a solution. So I'm going to reflect a little bit of your emotion and then I'm going to diminish it a little bit so you and I can have a real conversation.

So there's moves that you can do.

As a leader that functioned like a jujitsu move, and they're very, very powerful, in the more of them you learn, the better off you'll be and you need to practice them. You won't be good at them out of the gate. It's going to take some just like if I showed you an arm lock and you never done jujitsu before, you're not going to be able to get on the mat due to somebody. You're going to have to try a couple of times.

You have to learn the little nuances to the move. So there are ways that leaders can get better. And yes, there's absolutely natural leadership qualities that make people just a natural, better leader. But they even those people can improve.

So your question of out of a thousand people, how many really good leaders there are?

Well, you have to ask, OK, you just talk about how many people are just naturally born, great leaders. You're probably your suspicion is correct. It's not a huge amount.

But how many of those leaders can you improve exponentially in their ability to lead? And that's what the owner of a company, HaShalom Front, that's what we do all the time, is we go and work with companies. We work with leaders. That is exactly what we do.

And we take companies of I mean, we work with companies that have one hundred and fifty thousand employees. And you start getting everyone all the all the leaders aligned and getting the front line troops understanding where the where the leadership is and what they're thinking. And so you can become a much, much better leader over time. Now, how much of this do we see in the civilian sector? How much even more directly, how much of this do we see in the political world?

The answer is. An unbelievably small amount, I mean, it's a ridiculously small amount, it's a ridiculously small amount. Why is that?

I bet there's a there's a lot of reasons.

First of all, who who at this point in the world thinks that that sounds like a great job. Right. Hey, I'm going to go get attacked from all sides. I'm going to have my personal life picked apart. I'm going to get, you know, make I'm going to work really hard and really not I'm going to pay cap on how much money I make.

There's all kinds of reasons why becoming a politician doesn't look like the best job for most people that would look and say, hey, would I rather be the CEO of a company and make a ton of money and create a huge product and leave a big impact and influence thousands of people that work at my company in a positive way? Or would I rather go and get ridiculed, broke down and have to try and get my job again in four years or two years or whatever the case may be?

It's a that's a tough job, too. And a lot of people say I'm not going to.

Why would I jump into that game? Well, I know I say that. Why would I jump into that game? Why would I want to go and be a politician right now? Right. It's crazy. Like for me to for me to want to go into the into the political world, there would have to be complete and utter chaos in America. I mean, way beyond beyond where we're at.

I thought about this. Yeah.

I mean, I'm telling you what I think when because people ask me what you should do this. You should do that.

I say, Mom, you know, we're not at a point where we need this to be about four days away from. We could be.

I think the answer, you know, let's get let's get Dwayne the Rock Johnson. I agree with you. He's he's the guy that could really, I think, unify people.

And I think he would have to run as an independent. And I recommend he does it right now. Right, right now, he's like, yeah, you know what, I'm in. I mean, I think he would win. I think he would win. I really think he would win as an independent. He's obviously a smart guy.

He's super articulate. He listens. You can tell that he listens. I mean, when you see him interact with people, he's he's very genuine. How he interacts. He's built businesses. Right. He's built big well, really productive businesses that are doing great.

He he's I think he'd be great. It's got a fantastic work ethic.

He's got a fantastic work work ethic that he you know, he built he came up from nothing. Right. He had seven bucks in his pocket. We all know the story. And and he has more bucks in his pocket than that now, so. And most important, I think I think he's just a popular guy, you know, he would get up and and when the country's going through hard times, you know, it's talking to a friend on the way up here and.

They were saying, hey, you know, people want leadership and they're looking for it and they're not hearing it, and a lot of times people don't even recognize the fact that they don't have leadership. They don't even recognize it as a leadership vacuum. So they don't even know what they should be thinking.

Let me give an example. Your let's take a SEAL platoon, SEAL platoon raid to house. There's an explosions, there's some gunfire, and no one's really sure where it's coming from and no one's really sure what to do. Now, that individual a lot of the individuals, not platoon, are just kind of holding on security. They're holding they're not really sure what to do and they're not really even recognizing that there's a leadership vacuum. But then someone comes in, the leader, the platoon chief, the platoon commander comes in and goes, everyone get to the roof right now.

Animals, oh, cool. Now we know what to do, so same thing happening in America right now. There's no kind of voice saying, Hey, everyone.

This is what I just saw on this video. This is what I just saw, this was a heinous crime. This obviously we have some deep rooted problems that we need to fix. Here's the way I'm going to move forward, addressing these problems, getting to the bottom of them. And here's how long the timeline is going to be. And by the way, my ears are open and you know where the place where I'm coming right now, I'll be in Minneapolis tomorrow afternoon.

That's, you know, like, oh, we got a problem like that, if we have a problem like that, I am going on the ground, I will be there. I'll be there. What? I'm the guy. I'm the president. So I'll be there in, what, two hours? I'll be there on the ground. I'm going to find out what's going on. I'm going to meet with people. We're going to talk. I'm going to listen.

I'm going to find out what this means. I'm going to get to the bottom of these problems. That's that's what then you can actually speak from a position of, OK, I just spoke to these nine people, matter of fact, they're coming with me. We're going to come up with a plan. We're going to come up with a plan together. You know, that's another huge leadership. Everyone thinks in the military that the that the leaders sitting at the top going, all right, gentlemen, here's what we're going to do when a this building from the west, we're going to assault the front door.

No, that's not the way it works. That's not the way it should work. The way it should work is.

I say to you, Joe, I say, hey, Joe, here's the target.

I want you to go after tonight, come up with a plan and you say, OK, cool.

And then you if you're a good leader, you get with your team and say, hey, guys, here's the target we're going after. How do you all think we should do it? And now you all come up with your own plan together and then you come back to me and say, Hey, Jakiel, here's how I want to do it. And I say, looks good.

And maybe if I got to make a little adjustment, I say, hey, make this little adjustment here or maybe use this weapon over here or whatever. I make little tiny adjustments. But it's still your plan. And from a leadership perspective, that means you are you and your team are totally bought into the plan. You made it up as opposed to me coming down and barking orders at you and telling you how we're going to do it doesn't work.

I mean, I can force you to do it because I outrank you know, I order you to do this.

That doesn't that doesn't fly. You know, many times in my entire military career, I said, hey, I'm the boss.

You better do what I tell you to do. You know how many times I said that? Zero. Zero times. No one thinks like that, so in a leadership position, what you have to do is say, hey, I'm going to come, I'm going to find out what's going on, I'm going to talk to people, and we're going to put together a plan to figure out how we're going to get this solved. This is not acceptable in America.

That sounds fantastic.

But what if you're a Republican and they're Democrats and then you get on the ground and you have a mayor that's noncompliant. You have a governor who disagrees with your strategy. They don't want you there in the first place. They want to work it out themselves. They want to defund the police. They're voting unanimously to defund the police. They don't like what you're saying.

Cool. Well, OK, if that's where we're at right now, let's let's come up with a plan. Let's see how we get through this. Here's some things I'm worried about, because if you if you're telling me you want to defund the police because you think that this police department is completely and utterly corrupt, OK, let's let's explore that, because you could be right. You could be right. This is where a lot of leaders make a mistake, where it becomes an ego thing, especially like you're talking Republican and Democrat.

So that means if I'm a Republican, no Democrat can have a good idea ever. And if I'm a Democrat, no Republican can have a good idea ever. That's completely wrong. That's completely wrong.

So even right now, like when you threaten me right now, right now, you're like, hey, what if I tell you I want to defund the police? And I tell you I don't want the cops. Now, you tell me all those things as a good leader, you're going to say, all right, there must be something really bad going on here beyond even what I just saw on this video. I'm coming and I want to hear what's happening.

And I want you to tell me what your suggestions are and if your suggestions are to defund the police. Let's explore where that where that plays out. Let's see where that ends up, because as we start peeling back the layers, even the most even the most ardent antipolice person, you're going to get to a point where you say, OK, when my house is when when one of your constituents house is being broken into, who are they going to call?

What what mechanism are we going to put in place for security? How are we going to keep people safe from crime? And then they've got to answer that question and maybe they come up with a good answer, I don't know yet, but as a leader, you have to listen to other people's ideas and we have to you absolutely have to do that.

There's a saying from Paten leader on the front line is always, always right. The leader on the front, the leader on the front line is always right. So I've always tried to embrace that theory, not just from a leadership perspective, but even from a human perspective. You know, when you want to tell me something that I don't know about, I'm going to listen to you. I'm actually going to I'm actually really going to listen to you.

I'm going to try and ask myself, well, let's see. Joe lives in the city and Joe's here with this community. And Joe is telling me right now that we should have no police here.

Well, could he be very emotional? Yes, he could. Does that mean I should not listen to anything he says? No, it doesn't means I should monitor your your emotions and I should take that into account. But I should also be saying there's got to be some core of truth to what he's saying now. Is it possible that Joe is just a bad actor and just evil? Yes, it is. How do I know that unless I listen to you, the answer is you don't.

You know what I'm hearing right now? JoCo in the Rock, 20 20. That's what I'm hearing. Come on, son.

I think you. Yeah, well, I really hope it doesn't get to that point. Saying all makes fantastic sense. But the problem is everybody is so partisan. It's so difficult to get people to work together and people are so there's so much invested in keeping this party divided by these party lines, keeping the country divided by the right and the left. It's it's so nuts.

It's completely nuts. It's completely nuts. And when you hear the extremists on either side, you should say to yourself, you'd say to yourself, they want us to fight.

Right. It's like us, you know, here, I'll I'll drop a dime on myself.

I'm a big like when I was a kid in the SEAL teams, I was an instigator. If I could if I could talk smack to two different people and let them start to get escalating like they wanted to fight, I would do that all day long, especially once I started to people jujitsu. You know, I'd be the guy that was saying, oh, he's he thinks he could take you now because he trained for two weeks. You haven't been here.

But what do you you said that, you know, I would do that all day long, escalate.

So we had to do that because it's fun to watch people fight to the death. What I did when I was on Fear Factor was always instigating people.

It's fun. Yeah, there's there's some level of fun to it. Yeah. But fighting to the death is this is a different kind of fun. Yeah.

But when you recognize that when people on the extremes are telling you extreme things, that what they want is to create a divide. Yeah. That's what they want. So that you just go, you know what, I just can't have that. So I'm voting here where I just can't have this. So I'm voting here.

It's a nightmare. It is a nightmare. And it's a very difficult one to get out of. You need real leadership to get out of it. Yeah.

And that's just absent right now on both sides. Totally absent. And there's no middle ground. No, no. There's no one that says, well, you know, I, I.

You know, I like some of Trump's policies, right? Someone says that it's like, oh, just destroy that you must be a Nazi or you don't.

I agree with I agree with Nancy Pelosi on this thing. You must be a communist, you know, either way.

But that's the way that's where we're at. Yeah, that's that's why. Unfortunately. Well, fortunately, fortunately. But if if the rock was going to run, I think he would I think he would have to run as an independent right to just say, listen, I'm not down. There's some things I agree with over there. There's some things I agree with over there. So you know what I'm doing? I'm going in the middle, which is where most of America is.

So if you want to vote extremist, you can go to this side. Other extreme, you go to the side. Everyone else vote for me.

What was the last time someone even won as a governor? That was an independent, was it Jesse Ventura, possibly Minnesota? Yeah, possibly might have been him. I mean, you never even hear about it. Yeah, well, there's a whole, like, money thing that happens, right?

There's a whole money thing where if you're not a Republican or a Democrat, you're not going to get those big coffers full of money to put paid advertising out and get people in the streets to vote for you.

Yeah, you don't have the machine behind you. You know, the DNC behind you or the Republican Party. Yeah, it's it's a real weird situation we find ourselves in with no clear path to sanity. There's no clear path to sanity if we don't talk to each other, and right now we're not. No, we're not I've seen, you know, the people are so. Just angry at just angry when you talk to him about this stuff. Just anger comes out, it's horrible, it's horrible to watch.

Yeah, what disturbs me is that I don't see in the past when there's been disputes or things have been wrong, it seems like there's a clear path to to sort of work things out.

It doesn't seem like a clear path. It seems like every day kind of gets a little worse, like people get ramped up even more.

And then there's this event that's looming on the horizon this November event, this election event, no matter what, whether it's left or right, whether Biden wins or Trump wins is going to be madness and chaos.

It seems hard for me to understand that Biden could maintain his health, you know, through a presidency that seems very challenging to me. Yeah, I mean, it seems like he's been going down, you know, with his coherence level. You can kind of see it over even months, right? Yeah.

He's on a really, really rapid downward spiral when it seems stressful for anybody except Trump for whatever fucking reason that guy eats it up.

But for most people running for president alone, just the grueling, just the schedule that's involved in traveling and doing all these speeches.

And it just breaks them down.

I mean, one of the reasons why Hillary lost was she just wasn't willing to travel as much. There was all these different events that she was supposed to go to. She just couldn't go. She couldn't take it anymore. She thought she was going to win anyway. So she just laid back. Yeah. Yeah.

It definitely is a brutal thing, but it's really also just completely insane that the two candidates are these two people.

Well, yeah, first of all, that the best the Democrats could do. I mean, they had all these other people that were well-spoken. He seemed like young and healthy.

And there was you know, there's so many that is hard to comprehend. Yeah, right. It's really hard to comprehend that, you know, that you're looking at these this group of whatever, 350 million people, 320 million people in America. And this is this is who you end up with.

I mean, fucking anybody but Biden, anybody. I mean, we don't even know who his vice president is. Right. That's going to make a big deal. That's going to be a big deal because the vice president is compelling and interesting. And he says going to pick a woman, whether he picks the problem, it was going to pick Klobuchar. Klobuchar was responsible for a lot of those guys skating in Minneapolis. So that's not good. And then if he's going to go with Kamala Harris, Tulsi Gabbard kind of took the legs off of that lady.

So then who's left? Mayor Pete? He seems like a guy who was just, you know, like he's got a playbook. He's kind of like following this Obama playbook. And I just don't feel it from him at all. At least he's gay.

We'd have a gay guy in office. That'd lighten people up a little bit. I believe that we had a powerful gay leader. I think it'd be great for the country.

Like, I think, you know, like the one of the things about Obama being office beside the fact being beside the fact that he's very articulate and educated and so well-spoken statesman, that is like, hey, look, we're making progress.

We have a black president. Like I felt that if I felt like a wave across the country, people like you can be president in this country. Like even if you're born out of a single family, single mother, family, and you're a black guy, you can as long as you got the goods, you can make it like, this is great.

This means we really are living in a meritocracy. And it would be great if there was a gay guy that had the same experience, like like all the people that are homophobes like that. But that fucking mayor, he's got me. Yeah, I'm not the Bible says. But you know what? Fuck the Bible. I'm voting for that guy. He's better than Trump. I mean, that would be great. But he's just I don't think he's the guy.

Maybe he's the guy some day, but he's also a young guy. Right.

So who else who the fuck is there? Especially since it's going to be Biden? And he said it's going to be a woman. He's definitely not going to go with Tulsi. She's too fucking dangerous. Yeah, the Democrats are scared of her.

She doesn't play games, which is so crazy.

I know. She's got everything, everything they want. A woman of color, Congresswoman, served overseas. Two deployments.

Yeah, she's got everything. She's super articulate, super artec. She's LEVEL-HEADED super levelheaded. Very intelligent. Yeah. But she's just not corrupt. She's got this one problem.

That's the problem.

I mean, other than that, you look at it like Jesus Christ, this lady, she's willing to talk to people on the other side. She's you know, she's a stateswoman.

She's you know, the way she speaks. She speaks like a leader.

They won't even consider her. It's too dangerous. Well, so what is. I'm going back to deejay Dwayne The Rock Johnson. Yes, that's what I'm saying.

Back to Independent as an independent. Yeah. And Dwayne and JoCo 21. Come on, man, we need you.

It's it's very, very it's very horrible. And and when I see all this divide right. This is one thing that just.

Two, to have been in the military and been on the battlefield and fought alongside guys of every background, every background that you can imagine, white, black, Mexican, whatever, Puerto Rican, Asian that everyone's out there, everyone's out there. And, by the way, going to memorial services for these guys overseas. There's not one thought in your head, there's not one thought in your head that's thinking, oh, underneath the flag on that coffin, is that a black guy or that a white guy?

Not one thought your head is thinking that in any way, shape or form. All you know is that that person took a bullet, got blown up. That could be me. They took that for me. And to come back here and and now see this this this country being ripped apart, it's that's the most horrible thing for me.

This is something that gets discussed a lot by guys and teams and by different guys in the military period that when you served overseas with with these guys, that racism becomes the least least considered thing.

It's your brothers because you're literally the consequences of your actions. The consequences of your day to day existence is so, so dire. Life and death is the most drastic consequences that we are aware of. There's nothing you're losing your life or you're not or they save you or they don't.

Your brothers, you're all together.

But in this world, the consequences are less grave and the requirements of people are less extreme. You're not as tested. You're not your character is not as exposed. You are not as you're not as vulnerable in that sense. And because of that, I think people are more outraged and they're finding more reasons why we're separate, more reasons to divide us, more reasons why they're different from us, whether it's because of ideology or skin color. You know, Sam Harris has a podcast where he's discussing all the different things and he brings up one really great point.

The podcast, it's out now. He said, Could you imagine a world where we we think of color the same way we think of hair color like the color of people's skin the same way? Could you imagine a world where I don't trust redheads? You know, I don't do those people with dark brown hair, a fucking creepy to me. You know, all the people in my neighborhood that are blonde, they're all shady like that seems so preposterous.

Well, one day the go would be so great if one day that's how we feel about all skin color.

That's it's no different than hair color. It's just characteristics that you were born with. You have no control over who you are is what's important. That's it. Yeah.

And I think that's that's what that's the position that the military puts you in. They put you in this position of, look, I got to rely on this guy. I got to rely on this guy.

And if they're reliable, I'm down. I'm good. If they're not reliable, I got a problem. And it doesn't matter what color they are, doesn't matter what they're it doesn't matter any of that.

It's like, is this person going to be there? Is this a good person that's going to be there to back me up? And that's all we care about. And so for me, this is like super regressive to be going through with it, to watch the country go through this and think how to wait.

Wasn't I just ten years ago, like overseas with a bunch of guys and we didn't care about any of this, didn't didn't didn't enter into our minds? We're not looking at it all the time. And I guess part of it is because.

You got to be in a fight, you're in a struggle, and right now, let's face it, in America. Not a lot of struggling happening, well, we're kind of making our own struggle, right? Exactly. Yeah. And I think one of the things you've talked about that's very important is that a lot of this divide is because of this really shitty way of communicating, whether it's through social media or whether it's through reading stories or watching videos.

It's a terrible way to not just get in for information, but it's a terrible way to interact with people, like the way to interact with people, the way you and I are doing it right now, just talking to people. And I think the vast majority of problems would be solved amongst reasonable people if they just talk through this, talk to try to figure out, you know, you know, hey, man, I like that you did this well.

Well, all right. Well, I was thinking when I did this. Here's what you're right. Here's why I did it. And this is what I was thinking. And I was wrong because of that. And if people could just say that and people could accept that, people could shake hands or hug it out rather than have a fucking Twitter beef that leads to a gunfight, I mean, literally, that's the way we exchange information with each other back and forth through social media is the absolute worst way people can talk.

You're not looking at each other.

You don't get any social cues. You don't feel any empathy towards that person, that you're not in front of them, you're not there.

And you're looking to see how many people agree or disagree who's liking or dislike because it's a public thing. Right? So how many likes do they get? Their thing got 400 likes.

Mine only got 20 shit. Am I wrong here? It's it's just a terrible way for us, it's a new found way for us to communicate in a terrible way for us to communicate.

It's not we're not designed for it. This is not how we evolved. We evolved to communicate with social cues and to look at each other and be around each other.

And, you know, you could say something to a person and you're both laughing or you see it written down the same way you like.

That guy's a fucking asshole. Yeah.

Even from a leadership perspective, you know, we'll talk about this a lot with, hey, you know, I sent you I'll send you an email, you know, that says, hey, Joe, can you get this project done next week? Thanks. And you're in a bad mood when you read that, you know, year ago. Who the hell do you think you're telling? But if I was like, hey, Joe, can you get this project done by next week?

We really need it. I'm looking at you. Can you give me a blank stare? And I explain it to you a little bit more and all of a sudden it turns into a perfectly good conversation. Except when I sent you that email or in this case, a tweet. Right. Then you hate me. Yeah. It's like we got management to do, right?

Yeah. You got to when you want something out of someone who you want, you want some things to get done. You got to manage that person's personality and mood and you got to manage the relationship that you have with each other. And you have to be proactive. You have to you have to call the top man. How are you doing? Everything good. You good. Like, they have to get a good feeling out of you. Yeah.

And you got to say, listen, I got to ask you this favor. I need this thing from you and then and then you're rolling and everything's good and.

Exactly. You don't do it that way.

Then people go fuck this guy. Well this guy just wants things from me or this guy is annoying or, you know, this guy's treat me like a bitch.

Exactly. Yeah. The world through zoom right now. So we're doing a lot of zooming.

So my company has long from the just the video alone increases your ability to communicate. Right. Massively.

It doesn't get all the way there. Right. But just being able to look at someone and have a conversation with them as opposed to either just a hearing on the phone or. Absolutely so. So that idea of, hey, I'm actually going to sit down and talk to you. I'm actually in sit down. Hey, I'll meet you the hour.

Like we pivoted, obviously, once, you know, we used to go into or we still do, but going into businesses and working with them, shaking hands, how are you doing talking to him.

And then all of a sudden in three days, we were doing everything online, everything. Hey, meet me on this zoom call and you can get there. You can get ninety seven percent effectiveness just by looking at someone and talking to him. You know, like I said, there's a little percentage that you're still not going to get. But if you think you're going to communicate effectively through social media tweets, you're just freakin wrong.

Yeah, that's one step below email, right. Social media tweets is one step below email email's one step above that. Phone calls is one step above that zoom is a step above that. Another layer person to person is the best person to person.

And that's what we're designed for. Now, everything else is just it's and that's what's leading to all this fucking madness. And that's a lot of it is fueled it's weaponized by by social media tweets.

And yeah. Because by the way, when you send me a tweet to be to be an asshole to me, I, I actually just re tweet that and tell everyone what an asshole you are.

A bunch of people retweeted as well. Kid mayhem. Oh, God, we're not we're not working together. We're not we don't want and we're not working together. Right. That's another thing that covid did. Right. All of a sudden we took everyone in, isolate him. You're not you're not seeing them. You're not talking to them. So now everyone is almost strictly communicating by these methods that you're talking about. Yeah, this is horrible. Horrible for society.

Horrible for society.

The. The idea of coming to work in a place, the idea of, hey, I'm going to show up and work at a place with other people, that is such a huge part of getting back to where we need to be, like when you pull everyone out of work and you end there and even worse, and I'm not even just beyond covid. Well, you know what happens, we're we've moved all manufacturing overseas, right? So all those people that used to go and work in the same place every day, that used to show up and have a common mission and a common goal, they don't have that anymore.

Much of the middle class doesn't have that anymore. They used to have it. They don't have it anymore. And that's interestingly. China's middle class is growing right now. Why is their middle class growing? Because they're manufacturing, they're making things.

They're filling that void of people that have that level of skill set of, hey, you know what?

I just got out of high school. I can't afford college. So what am I going to do?

Right. Oh, well, in China. Well, you can say, OK, well, I got him to work at a factory. Hey, it's a horrible sweatshop. It's whatever we need. They need to improve their their conditions.

But, hey, these people have a job. They have a purpose. They're moving in a certain direction in America. We've kind of, on a massive scale, gotten rid of that class of people's purpose. And that's a big focus for you, right?

When your company origin in particular. Yeah. Oh, which, by the way, I got the boots. They're fucking dope. You guys make great shit.

It's like really high quality, really beautifully manufactured stuff like and there's something very valuable right now about American made.

It used to be it was very divisive, like you said, American made like what are you xenophobic? You don't like foreigners. What the fuck is wrong with you? But now you realize like, oh, well, with covid, you know, we were cut off from even getting goods and supplies from other countries. And then we were getting so much of our medical supplies from China. And then we're getting so much of our vaccines and medicine, all these different things manufactured by China like, hey, why don't we do that here?

What we used to. But I was cheaper by like a dollar a thing to send it over there, like, oh, Christ.

And people are realizing now there's a there's a great benefit to making things here in America. And it's not just this idea of national pride. National pride is great. But also, like you don't you don't have to go anywhere to get things and you keep jobs here. Yeah.

And I think Kanye West is looking to build same the same things we're doing. He wants to manufacture stuff in America. Why? Because he knows when you have a bunch of underprivileged kids, the best thing you can provide a bunch of underprivileged kids is jobs, jobs that they can entry level jobs.

Hey, you know, when I was a kid, it was almost like, hey, if you're not careful, you're going to end up working in the factory. Right. That's what's going to you know, you can end up working in a factory. No one wanted a factory job.

The thing is. So so that kind of became a mantra, oh, you don't want to work in a factory. You better go to college.

Well, there's first of all, factory work has changed. There's jobs that people do in a factory that takes a massive skill set.

And the boots, you know, the origin boots, we were we're probably a year, two years, three years from losing the knowledge of how to actually do that. And luckily, my buddy Pete has started, you know, grabbing people that know how to do it and passing that information down to the next generation so we can actually be a self-sufficient country and we can bring back those jobs of people that look that's old.

That's a proud way to make a living. These are craftsmen, like you said. These are craftsmen and craftswomen. By the way, our factory is mostly filled with women and they're out there. They have a skill set. They're learning a skill set. There's there's upward mobility. As you get better at your job, as you can do more things, you can make more money. And by the way, you're making something. You're making something with your hands.

You're producing something here in this country that's just like, well, it's like when you go hunting. When I go hunting, you get something for yourself. There's a certain feeling of being self-sufficient. And America on a large scale, especially during covid, we look up and say, wait a second, we can't even we can't even make that stuff. We don't even know how to make that. That's a nightmare.

Well, the boots in particular, think think about if you started from scratch, like if I started from scratch, I don't know shit about how to make a boot.

If I had a long learning curve of figuring out how to make an excellent boot that fits right. As well-made and durable like those boots that you guys sell.

Like I was going over I was looking at this thing. I'm like fucking put some time and effort into this thing.

And this is a really well crafted piece of art and it's functional artwork and that knowledge, because that's not that's not that's not our generation that learned that we're we're pulling that information from the old shoe dogs up in Maine that are sixty years old. Seventy years almost, you know, out of the workforce, having to bring them back into the workforce to to educate the younger generation on how to actually do this.

We got a kid up there.

The name is Cameron. Now it's twenty to 20 young kid, and he has learned now how to weave the material for our guys, so he's the guy that knows how to weave material.

This is the belt. This is so complicated. What do you see? All these different pieces of string coming together, get this big machine with. So he's got like a loom.

Yeah, he's got we've got looms up there, but we had to get the knowledge right from the old timers that said, OK, let me show you how to do this.

And like you just said, how long would it take to figure out a loom on your own? First of all, I think I would fail because I don't think I'd have the patience if I just said this machine to look at. So capturing this knowledge so that we can become a self-sufficient country again. It's got to be paramount in what we're doing. And it's not just it's not just, hey, because I'm pro-American America. Yes, I am.

But if we want to get rid of the kind of social unrest that we have right now in Ramadi, you've got a 15 year old kid that's putting a roadside bomb in the road. You know why he's doing that? Is he doing it for some big ideology? No, he's not. He's doing it because he's going to get paid fifty dollars by the insurgents. He wants a job. He wants a life. He wants to make money.

What happens in America? What happens with kids in the inner city that are underprivileged when they don't have a job? What are they going to do? What are they going to do?

They're going to fall into, oh, maybe I'll sell drugs, maybe I'll commit robberies, whatever I'm going to do. But they're not doing it by choice in many cases. Or if they're doing it by choice, it's because they don't see any other choices to even make. So we've let our manufacturing go away.

And now we've got void's we've got voids where people don't have an ability to make an income. And that's. That's that's that's just a complete loss of pride, right, if you don't have the ability to earn money, to take care of yourself, to take care of your family, if you don't have that ability. What are you going to do? You're going to figure out how to make it happen.

It's so short sighted to I mean, it was all done for just a small amount of profit per item, small amount of profit per item. And it cost the country so much. Yeah.

And and then the. Then the narrative became, we're not able to do it, that's why we don't do it, we're not able to do it. That became the narrative. Well, you know, even the big corporations would say, well, you know, we'd love to we'd love to make stuff here.

But it's impossible. It's impossible.

Well, that's ridiculous. Completely and totally ridiculous.

Also, like when you go through Detroit and you realize that Detroit at one point in time in the early 20th century, was one of the richest countries in the world or excuse me, one of the richest cities in the world, you go through and you realize, OK, this is where they were making all the fucking badass cars, all the amazing American cars of the 60s and 70s. They were all made right there and then they fucked up. Someone made some decisions to save a little bit of money and make a little bit of money and completely shortsighted.

Didn't look at the economy as a whole, didn't look at the nation from a position of a patriot, someone who looks at the country and what's best for the country and just said, what is the best way that we can maximize our profit?

Well, we need to set up factories in Mexico and China and all these other places. We can get people to work for nothing. You can't buy a fucking cell phone. It's made in America. All the people that design an engineer cell phones for Apple, they're right here.

They're not making them here. There's not a fucking single cell phone that's made in America. Try buying one that's made with all American parts, all American labor in America.

We got no such thing. It doesn't exist.

And what you're going to be told is it can't be done. That's all cannot be done. That's what's cool about Elon Musk.

Oh, watch this. Yeah, I'll make cars here. I'll make them awesome.

I'll make rocket ships, whatever that guy's fucking tunnels under the earth. Yeah. We need a couple more of those dudes.

Yeah, it's it's it's good. The people are opening their eyes, though. It's good that people are realizing because of the pandemic and because of the fact that all goods and services that were being imported on a daily basis were shut down and also people were terrified of getting things over there. What are you going to spray everything down? Everything's infected. And what what I'm scared. What do I do? Yeah, but the medicine is the craziest one.

The fact that we rely on China for some ungodly percentage of all of our medicine, like, holy shit, guys like is this the right way to do this? Just for profit.

Yeah, it seems like we got a little bit lucky with covid. Yes. Right.

A little bit lucky because it turned out to be not not bad. Did you ever get the antibody test? No. Thuc should have tested it. I'm sorry.

Because you think you might have had it right. I'm so at the end of January. Right. Right. As this thing was kicking off, I did a live tour. I did Austin, then I did Washington, DC.

Then I did New York City, Seattle, San Francisco and L.A. Every event shook hands and bro hugged between a thousand and two thousand people. That's what I did. At the end of January. I went to the the absolute like Ground Zero locations for covid at just just bro hugged and talked to a bunch of people and shook hands and, you know, just got after it. And then I got sick. Yeah. Like a week later, something two weeks later I guess it was February.

I was sick and I was like, gee, I wonder what that is. And then and then March came around and we started sick.

The sick, like, get often it wasn't real bad.

It wasn't real bad. But it was it was we know it was bad enough that, you know, I, I think I might have skipped like I am going to stretch today because I really feel like crap for a workout type of thing. So I didn't get I wasn't down hard. I wasn't in and I didn't miss any I didn't miss anything, but I felt bad. And so I figured that was my that was my coalbed experience. My wife got sick, my son got sick, two daughters in college and my young daughter didn't get sick at all.

My ten year old daughter didn't get sick at all. So it sounds like it. Yeah, but did you have it or not?

No, I didn't. I'm not going to fucking text right now. I'm going to get a doctor in here in an hour and a half. We're done. I'm going to I'm going to make this happen because I want to find out. You would be the only guy that's tested positive if you did know we had Tim's buddy. What's his name? Ben. He didn't false positive. Then we tested him again.

Yeah, I think it would be I think it would be crazy if that travel schedule that I had sitting on all those airplanes from and to and from all those different airports in all those airports, that's just that's just crazy.

Yeah.

All right. I'm asking right now, can we get one, two, three, three make it happen? That was another. You know, we talk about egos. The the scary thing about the whole covid unraveling was that the leadership wouldn't say, hey, you know what, I actually think I was wrong about this and we're moving in this direction now, right? Not just leadership, but everyone. Right. Everyone just hey, no, you know what?

I think I was wrong here, but maybe we need to adjust this year. So you didn't get to see that?

That's a great point, because that that really was a failure of leadership, because it was very clear at some point in time when they found out, when they did the large scale antibodies test, particularly in California, and they like Jesus Christ, hundreds of thousands of people have been exposed to this. This is not what we thought, like in the amount of people that are actually sick, instant result back.

And you did the amount of people that that actually tested positive for the antibodies was way higher than they thought it was. And the amount of people that were actually hospitalized was way lower.

And then they looked at the average debt that people died. It's actually older than the average debt that people die. Yeah, yeah.

My son pointed that out to me. Yeah. We shut down the fucking economy for that.

Yeah, I guess I was was a little bit whatever. I was pretty I was pretty cavalier through the whole thing. Our buddy, Dr. Pete. Yeah, he was dirty.

It was a little nervous. Well, he was way nervous because he was in early. Right. And when you saw the early stuff. Yeah. When you're like, hey, it's one out of every ten people are dying. Right. But even he was making adjustments. He said, wait a second. In Italy, there's different cities. That was, I think, where he started changing his his attitude. He said, wait a second. In Italy, there's different cities.

And in some cities they're really compressed together. And people are old people living with young people in the same place. And, oh, wait a second. We need to separate this out.

And then it just, hey, it wasn't as bad. Thank God. Yeah. Thank God it wasn't as bad. And my buddy Andrew Schultz had a great point. He said, basically, covid exposed weaknesses in both business and in people's health that sort of really did the the lockdown did because there was businesses that literally couldn't survive a week without money coming in. Well, that's a that's a badly managed business or a business that has a very small and narrow profit margin.

And then there's people that literally can't survive any sort of disruption in their immune system. Their immune system is shattered. One of the things that came out of it that I found out from Dr. Rhonda Patrick was that 70 percent of America is deficient in vitamin D, 70 percent, 29 percent is severely deficient to the point where like there like they have medical issues because of a deficiency in vitamin D.

Yeah, you've got to get on that. You've got to get on the vitamin D to get on the vitamin D in the best way to get it is to get out in the sun. Yeah. And that's the one thing you weren't supposed to do. The whole thing is fucking madness. It was a perfect storm. Yeah.

It's like when the plague in the or the black plague, they thought it was they thought it was cats. They thought cats delivered the plague to everyone. So they killed all the cats. But it wasn't the cats, it was the rats and the mice. And so when you killed the cats, guess what happened to the rats and mice?

They went insane. So almost the same kind of thing you see unfolding. Yeah. And no one's saying, hey, you know what? Actually, we're wrong here. You know what? And what about the masks?

So this was crazy. Well, I got some buddies that texted me. They said, hey, there's this thing coming, you origin. You guys should start making masks just to just to cover your face. And I said, oh, OK. I don't know anything about this stuff. I talk to my buddy Pete. I said, hey, it sounds like we're going to need to make masks. And he says, OK, so we we start thinking about, hey, how would we make these things?

And then a couple of days later, the government, the government comes out and says, masks don't do anything, don't work, don't don't wear masks, don't get masks. So I talked to Peter, said, hey, man, it looks like this isn't a good it looks like we don't need to do it because it looks like doesn't help at all.

Five days later, they're like, everyone wear a mask at all times. And by the way, we're going to pass laws that require you to wear a mask.

I'd call Pete. I'm like, it looks like we need to make masks, you know? And we ended up making a couple hundred thousand masks and we were we were sending him to. This is the weird thing. We're sending them to hospitals, but we donated thousands of mass to hospitals. And and then, you know, two weeks later, it was like, no, actually, I don't do anything.

I still don't know.

Well, it's hard to get. The problem is people get shamed. And the the World Health Organization came out and basically said the only reason you should be wearing them out. Where is the CDC now? The world here to Foushee said U.S. government held off promoting face masks because it knew shortages were so bad that even doctors couldn't get enough.

So is he just saying that now, this morning or today since we started?

So guess what? You all every we all got lied to and got lied to hold off on promoting face masks because it knew shortages were so bad, but then doctors couldn't get enough.

Recently, the CDC said the only people that should be wearing masks are. People that are treating covid patients and that regular people shouldn't be wearing masks and then the World Health Organization said that asymptomatic people, it's extremely rare that they transmit to other people. So we were worried about asymptomatic people.

The reason why we kept out at school and we were worried about overwhelming the hospitals, which is why we did all this other stuff as well, which is what drives me crazy about my kids school.

I was like, hey, you fucks, this doesn't even kill the kids. It's killing the kids. Get killed by the flu. Meanwhile, you don't even scan the teachers or the staff or anybody. People have the flu. They don't want to miss a day of work. They just fucking show up and give it to everybody that's normal. And kids actually die from the flu. And it's not a small number. Such a small number of people that die from the flu last year was sixty two thousand.

I mean, it's not as many as covid, but then you're hearing you're hearing two camps. You're hearing one, the covid deaths are actually underreported because a lot of people die from covid and they don't even register it.

OK, boy, I guess it's worse than it is. And then you hear. No, no, actually, we're getting incentivized to report deaths as covid Elon Musk on the podcast said, if you get killed by a shark, but you were covid positive. They were listed as a covid.

Obviously, he was being facetious, but not entirely because there's a lot of people with leukemia that also had covered listed as a covid death, obesity, heart attacks listed as a covid death because they tested positive for covid cancer, also had covid covered.

Yeah, I mean, fuck, that's really disturbing. You know, when you hear those statistics and you see these things that they're saying and just the lack of trust that you end up with the government exactly when the government is already people just generally don't really trust the government a lot. Right. Right. There's no one that's always thinking the government is always giving the straight skinny.

And it goes back to this click Baity bullshit. My wife pointed out the story yesterday where she's reading about this kid that died, 17 year old kid, perfectly healthy. It says she reads into the article, Type one diabetes. Type one diabetes is not perfectly healthy. No, it's really sick and fucking dangerous. And you have to take insulin to stay alive. Yeah.

And think you can get complications from Dialogo Devlins living diet, type one diabetes. Diabetics can live real normally and then they can have an instance that causes them to die.

Yeah, they can have their foot removed. Yeah. There's all sorts of shit that goes wrong. When you have diabetes, your immune system is severely compromised. But it's like we're our information.

It's not pure. We're getting all this money thing.

And Foushee telling us the only reason why we're told us not to wear masks is because they knew he didn't have enough, like, holy shit, how many people died because of that?

You fuck. And then the World Health Organization says actually no one died, that you don't have to worry about it. You really don't need to wear a mask like fucking what is happening.

The I think so much of this ego plays so much into this of people not want to admit they're wrong. Yeah. Wonder. Here's another thing that people won't say.

I don't know. Right. I don't know.

Like as a leader, I've been in situations where I did not know. This is I tell leaders all the time. I say, listen, tell your people the truth about what's happening. By the way, we're seeing examples where this is factually not happening inside America right now. If you're a leader, tell the people the truth about what's going on. That's what you need to do.

And then people come back to me and they say, well, what if what if I don't know what what if I don't know the truth? Then what you do is you say, hey, I don't know the truth. Hey, guys, I don't know I don't know exactly how this is going to play out. These are some contingencies that I'm preparing for that is so much more acceptable from the troops. Then when you try and pretend like you know what you're talking about, it turns out you're wrong, right?

I mean, Trump does this so much that people lose track of it right.

Where he thinks something and he just goes out on a limb and he just walks right out on a limb and says, hey, this kov itself will be gone in a week.

Yeah. And and then you just saw off the limb behind his foot. He does that all the time. It's it's a good example of how not to lead because then people start to trust you less and less. And then when things like this happen, where you find out that they actually did purposely now think if they would have said this like, OK, we're worried about we don't have enough mass, then you know what? You come out and say, you come on, you say, listen, everyone, we're not 100 percent sure what the masks do for people, but we do know this inside of a medical environment.

We have to prioritize getting those people that are absolutely exposed, these masks.

That is why we are going to put up some kind of a control over who's allowed to buy them. You just tell the truth.

Well, that was kind of happening at some places, like Amazon was only doing that. They're the only selling those. What does it end? Ninety five. Ninety five. Yeah, they were selling them only to hospital workers and there you go. There were allocating them along with other types of hand sanitizer and a bunch of different things they were selling specifically to them first and first responders. Perfect example.

Yeah. What you don't do is say hey everyone, don't worry about it. Right.

But what she did. But if him. If. He's saying that like, well, hey, Fugo, now we can't trust you ever again. Exactly. Yeah, that's that's the freakin problem. You're looking at this guy. Next time there's some kind of disease, next time there's a problem. How do we know if we can listen to you?

Also, thing he was saying a couple of weeks ago that the United States doesn't open up soon. We could we could face permanent damage, economic damage, permanent economic think.

Yeah. And I'm like, hey, hey, hey, hey.

How come you didn't say this before? How come you didn't say, hey, we have to weigh in the pros and the cons here?

Yeah. You know, you should have. And this is actually something I I talked to Peter T. about it.

I said, hey, it seems like maybe some people should be quarantined and other people should.

And he's like, absolutely 100. No. So like my dad, who's an older guy who's you know, he's an older guy, compromised immune system. Guess what? He should be isolated. You should be quarantined. Yeah. Should my 17 year old son should my 20 year old daughter, my twenty twenty eighteen year old, my ten year old, should they be in isolation? Should they be quarantined? Absolutely not. Absolutely not.

Hey, first week, two weeks where we're hearing it's a ten percent body and we're hearing all these things cool. You can make a you can make an in extremis call. You can say, hey, guys, I don't know what's happening, but in Italy, it looks real bad. Guess we're going to do we're going to shut down for two weeks. I'm sorry, but this is what we're going to do.

And you go the nation says, OK, OK, we get it. And then two weeks later, you say, you know what it looks like it really might impact our medical systems going to shut down for another two weeks. Just another two weeks.

Never goes. Who? You know, I got to pay my mortgage, but OK, two more weeks. And then you say then you got to then you got to have the courage and the ability to put your ego in check and say, you know what? Thank you. May or may not have been necessary. We don't know right now, but it looks like we can start opening back up. Let's rock and roll.

The other problem is once they tell you what to do, they don't want to stop having that power and control. Oh, yeah, they love. The governor literally said wear masks because then we can get back some of our freedoms.

Then you're going to give away freedom. You got that kind of power. Maybe I should run for governor. Yeah.

I didn't know I could get control freedoms. You got my vote. Give away freedoms.

The the business is surviving, right? You're talking about the businesses surviving. There's a lot of businesses that especially little businesses.

Right. Little jujitsu schools, little restaurants.

You want a restaurant to operate on 50 percent capacity, that restaurants aren't making this kind of money where they can throw away 50 percent of their profits, exactly 50 percent of their capability make money.

They still because they still got to have that cook. Yeah, that cook is there. The dishwashers there. Right. There's your bare minimum. Yeah. And they got to be there no matter what. If you serve 50 people, great. If you only serve 25, you don't make any money. Yeah.

So there's there's going to be there's a lot of businesses that run that day to day, you know, month to month, paycheck to paycheck to try and stay afloat. That's the that's what America does. And sometimes they're able to creep out of that and they get ahead. And that's awesome. That's how you end up with these big, powerful companies.

Yeah, I've had a couple of restaurant owners in Adam Perry Lang, who owns a steakhouse, and Janet Zuccarini and Evan Funky who own they own. Well, she owns Felix. Janet owns Felix and he's the head chef. And they were explained to me, profit margins. And it's fucking crazy.

It's when you really look at how difficult it is to run a restaurant and all the decisions that have to be made. And, you know, food goes bad. If you keep it too long and you got to buy a certain amount of food, you anticipate a certain amount of customers, you got to know your costs. He was explaining it to you. We know our customers. I know most of them are not going to order this someone. And I have a certain amount of meals that I'm going have of the fish and more meals of the steak in the pastas primary.

That's what most people are coming here for and like, fuck. And then you tell them, oh, you can only open up at sixty percent and waitresses have to wear a fucking hazmat suit.

And you don't think, oh, God damn, what are they, 10 percent, 15 percent, five percent profit margin.

I think they were saying fourteen percent is how they operate. But it's difficult. It's very difficult. And, you know, people don't want to spend too much money on meals, you know, and so they it has to be kind of engineer like how how how can you how can you do it? Right. And Janet has had a ton of successful restaurants, like she's a wizard at it. I mean, she's been doing it straight out of college.

And her problem was she was in the process of building multiple restaurants. So all of her money were out, even though she's extremely profitable and very, very successful at all these restaurants. She's building out all these other restaurants at the same time with that money because she knows how to make money. She knows how to run these businesses. So she's doing so. She's got a Jamaican restaurant, she's got an Italian restaurant. She's got all these things happening.

And then, boom, the government tells you you have to shut down.

That's yeah, that's the the profit margin. There's so many, you know, because we work with all kinds of different businesses. Yeah. And the profit margin on many, many businesses is really, really lean.

One of my favorite examples is big construction companies like big construction companies that are doing, you know, five hundred million dollar projects or, you know, 700 million dollar bridges and coliseums and stuff their profit margin. It's like four percent, holy shit, four percent whole, five percent, if they do awesome, it's like six percent.

That is so insane. And they're, you know, ordering concrete and they've got to have it show at a certain time. And then the rebar wasn't in place. Like, it's crazy. The margin for error is so small and there's so many businesses that operate like that. And a lot of times I think some of the people in government, they've never been in business before. Right. And so they don't understand that for them. Hey, just operate at 50 percent capacity inside your restaurant, you'll be fine.

That's a very good point. And they've never run a business. You know, I have a jujitsu gym. We got shut down. So now now we're now they're telling us, hey, you can allow people back in the gym. They just have to be six feet apart. You can't do digits to six feet apart. You can't do morti six feet apart. So what are we supposed to do now? And by the way, what about oh, you want us to check people and we want to have this there's all these protocols that are put in place to have someone come into the gym.

So now we got to hire extra people. We've got to hire extra cleaning staff because the gym has to shut down for this period of a day. And they need to clean everything like the obviously the people that are making these rules have never been and never been in business before.

Yeah. Telling a person who is running a jiujitsu gym, the people have to be six feet apart.

The jujitsu is zero zero zero zero space. That's the whole goal of jujitsu is smash the whole goal, take your body and smash someone's body with it.

The whole idea is no space.

Yeah, it literally is the foundation of jujitsu pressure applied with no space.

And this goes back to the idea of as a leader. Taking the information from the frontline troops and saying how you tell me what's a good way to run this, you tell me. You tell me what's a good way to run this.

And let's see if we can figure out what this problem would really want to talk to jujitsu gym owners and my suggest. I've never run a jujitsu, Jim. I've been in a shitload of my suggestion would be to have people fill out a waiver so they waive their rights, have people fill out a form that says, I have not tested positive, I've showed no symptoms of illness. I promise that if I do, I will not train and I will get myself tested.

Testing is readily available now.

You know, for a long time we were getting shamed because we were testing people I was tracking on angry that we were testing people like, look, you can test people to you fuck, just like you could buy a steak.

It just costs money, you know. Are you mad that people have steak and you can't afford a steak?

Well, you know, there's people there are different stages of life, you know, in this game called society and capitalism. And you start off at square A, you know, everybody starts at a different spot, granted. But I started at bottom and you figure out a way to get a fucking test. And if you're in a spot right now and you where we can't have a test, will definitely don't go and expose yourself till we know what the fuck it is.

But don't get mad if people can afford test you crazy fucks.

And what we're at right now, what you did to gyms is you should have a form that you fill out, just like when I was at a restaurant, I went to the Lonesome Dove restaurant, shout out to them in Austin, Texas. Fantastic place to make you fill out the form.

Says you haven't been tested positive. You know, you don't you're not sick. You're not showing any symptoms. You know, they do a temperature check. Check your forehead. Oh, you're looking good. All right. Come on in. Sit down. Filipacchi, you in order to keep you know, I think you'd be a little bit separated, but that was two weeks ago. And there's another place.

Gus's fried chicken shout out to Gus's best fucking fried chicken on earth in Austin, Texas. We went there two weeks ago and you couldn't eat there. You had to wear a mask in the restaurant and you had to order takeout. So we got takeout.

Then we came back again yesterday. Yesterday, no fucking mask. Everybody's in there sitting. All the seats are packed. They strongly suggest you wear a mask and no one no one wore a fucking mask.

The waiters all wore masks. But it's like things are getting different. There's another restaurant, Red Ash, that we ate at Saturday night. That place had seventy five percent capacity. And you had to wear a mask until you got to your table and then you had to wear a mask again. If you had to go take a leak, you had to put your mask back on, take a leak, come back and it doesn't make any sense. It's like just this health department guidelines and they're trying to open up and they don't want to get sued.

They don't want to get people mad.

And like, we're we're we're trying to protect everybody, but we don't know how to do it. And it doesn't matter what the science. If you could show them an article that shows that masks are bullshit and they're still going to tell you, but you still going to wear your mask because we're playing a little game here. We're playing a game called Keep People Safe. Nobody's saying a goddamn thing about take your vitamins, drink water, stay healthy work.

Get out in the sun. No, no, no. The government never says that you don't hear governor knew someone is fucking goofy, slicked back hair. He's not telling you to go work out and get in the sun.

It's going to be a I think America can only take so much. And I kind of said this from the beginning, like, you can keep America in, lock down for a little while, two weeks, four weeks.

And then people start saying, you know what, I got to go out. I got to go make something happen. I got to do something. I got to earn money. And it's a people that are looking around saying, well, I don't really need any money right now. They're the ones that are saying, everyone stay in your house and don't come out and wear a mask. All right.

We've got a doctor coming in three thirty time. I think I got you a positive this time. It's want to get a positive. Oh, he hasn't got a goddamn healthy people in here.

Yeah, I've had now that I think I've had seven or eight tests one, two, three, four nose swabs. I've had four nose swabs. And for anybody see me personally, I've still come out negative every time. But the other thing that he said, and this doctor is a very smart guy and a young, healthy guy, he said that doesn't mean you haven't been exposed to it means your immune system did its job. Really, there's another thing that people are saying, people saying, oh, well, you just got lucky.

You haven't been around someone who had it. It was no, no, no. Many of the people that I tested are positive, are in a family with the other people that are also in that family are negative. So they have it. They've been around these people for fucking weeks and they don't get it. Why? Because they have a better immune system, particularly children.

So I guess I'm in a win win situation now, because if I had it if I tested positive, like no factor Howard through it, you beat it. Now, even if I didn't have anything to say. Hey, so you I beat it. Yeah. I'm going to win. Win.

Yeah, I know.

Well, depending upon what your results are, I know nine people that have had it now and out of those people, only one of them had it bad. And that was my friend Michael Yo and he got it bad from it's real easy to track. He flew all the way to New York. Mostly, what was the date he was in January, January Jamy, no, early February or late January. March show in New York was marked the very beginning, so end of February and February, he was here and then he went, OK, so he left here that week and went to New York.

No sleep, right. Flies in New York, does radio, does TV, also does his comedy gigs. No sleep, does gigs the next day. Same deal does promo. All this shit flies back home. No sleep gets up in the morning, drives to Vegas with his wife and kids.

The fucking kids screaming in the car drives back home that night, hangs out with his wife's family in Vegas and drives back on that. So eight hours in the car just that day. Then the next day he's got auditions. Day after that, he's got auditions. Then Boom hits the wall and he's fucked.

He feels like shit and he felt like shit. By the way, his mom got it.

She also tested positive. Beat it in the day. How long was he down for? He was down for a week. But he ran himself to also vitamin D deficient, and so all those things ran himself down, vitamin D deficient doesn't take care of himself. So but but he caught the perfect storm of exhaustion and travel.

Travel, fox you up. It fucks you up. Yeah.

And I thought leading into this, I was I've been traveling all the time my whole life. Matter of fact, the lockdown is the most consecutive nights I've ever spent with my wife since we've been married and we've been married for 20 years. Most consecutive nights, because, you know, I was in the Navy, I was deploying, I was going on trips, and then when I retired, I was working with consulting all over the place. It's going amazing.

Yeah. So it's been kind of cool hanging out with my wife night after night.

All right.

These are FDA approved kids, too, so we're good. So we're totally fine.

We're going to find out for real, fully legit doctors pumped for. What do you think? You think I think I've had it or not. What do you think?

Yeah, I would say because your kid, your youngest kid didn't get it, get sick and then the other people did get sick, but no one got it badly. And I know your family's very healthy. I know your your daughter's a savage. Your son's a savage.

I would imagine you probably had it thinking about all the places you've been. I bet you I bet you test positive for the antibodies. I know a few jujitsu guys have got it, but they all just got coughs. Yeah. Oh yeah. And plus plus on top of all this, I'm in my gym was in my gym. Oh yeah. You know, I got all kinds and we have a lot of people that show up at my gym because they just want to train, they want to come check it out.

Yeah. And my gym is big. You know, we've got two thousand members, right? Yeah. It's 2000 because it's not just a gym victory.

I'm Man Fitness in San Diego, California. But, you know, so it's a big gym. Yeah. And, you know, every two thousand members, that means they're all interacting with, you know, three or four other people outside of the gym, if not five or ten people.

So and they're literally sweating in each other's mouths complete. Oh, yeah. That's another thing. That's another indicator. When I got sick, my main training partner, this guy, Andy, Andy Berke Kartun with all the time he got sick and then his girlfriend got sick, who's also a jujitsu fighter, MMR fighter. She got sick too.

So he very like.

We'll see. I'm curious. It's hard when you train hard, you get sick. It's part part of the thing, too. When you break down your body and your your immune system gets you know, when you're one of those guys that trains really hard, you do have a tendency to get little colds because your immune system gets tested.

Here's something I've noticed when I have downtime, like let's say this has happened to me a few times. I'm going to Montana and I'm I'm super stoked to go up there and chill. Right. As soon as I get up there, I get sick. Really, it's happened to me like maybe three times where I, I finally have four days or five days where I, you know, don't have anything scheduled to go up there. I'm going to shoot my ball.

I'm going to chill and I get up there and it's like my mind switches and all of a sudden I get sick.

It's like I saved up illness to where I know I can be allowed to get sick if that ever happened to, you know, but there's a good argument there for, like, just the way your mind controls your whole system.

Yeah. Because your mind is just like pedal to the metal slayer in the background, right?

Yeah.

Everything is go, go, go. And then when it's silence, your body's like what we've been up to I, I feel like that happens. I don't know. I was wondering if it ever happened to you because it's, it's, it's happened enough time that I'm talking about it.

Well my best examples campaigns that motherfuckers never sick and if he's sick he still runs anyway.

He's just got a little bit of a cough.

But all the people that I know, I don't know anybody who who's consistently putting in the kind of hours every day that he does.

Oh yeah. He runs sixty miles every fucking day. Yeah. Sometimes a marathon, sometimes a marathon every day while he works eight hours a day and then he gets home and lift weights. I mean it's not like he runs and he gets his reps and gets his reps in with his boat every day.

And he's lifting and he's lifting every day. Every day. He doesn't take days off. That fucking guy's never sick if he's sick.

It's like the next day he's running again. You looking at his Instagram? It's hey, it's great day run out there fucking. I did.

I think there's something to forcing your body to consistently, constantly perform. Totally.

Yeah. Magin not. Like Olympics, right, you're in the Olympics for wrestling, let's say, and you've got your whole entire life is on one day.

Hmm. If you get sick the right anything bad happens and you're done.

Those big moments like that or fuck, when you're so stressed out to your immune system is super jacked. But I think there's a there's a thing about peaking for a big event, whether it's a fight or the Olympics or something, versus maintaining consistent conditioning.

They're very different things. Like a good example is Tim Kennedy. Tim Kennedy went through, I believe, two camps in a row. Camp fire got canceled, cap training went through another full camp. And then when he fought Kelvin Gastelum.

Yep, that guy is now retired and he was gassing out in the fight.

And there's a real good indication from all involved that is because of overtraining.

I know that when I would train fighters, you could absolutely see when they would overturn. It wasn't a big question. You'd go in, you'd have a fighter. That's whatever level at let's say let's say jujitsu, because I'm trying to jujitsu with them.

And every day, you know, they're they feel a certain level.

And then one day you come in and you train with them and they're just they just suck. And I would tell them it's, hey, man, two days off, go eat some steak because you would know 100 percent that they're overtrained, you know, 100 percent.

What do you tell vegans to eat some steak? Yeah, I would tell them. Definitely need some steak. You need that steak. Get some get some steak in you. Yeah. Just give them an elk.

Just give them just one good piece of backstrap.

Just just try. Just trust me. Just eat it and run through a fucking wall.

Yeah. It's a really weird thing about watching people go through camps, through fight camps. And, you know, I really I basically don't train fighters anymore like I used to because I don't have time anymore.

But you would you would work so hard to make sure that on that night that they're there. Yeah, they're there.

And some people get in the cage and they do better than they would normally do. Some people get in the cage and they don't do as good.

And you got, you know, Jeremy Stevens a great example, because especially when he first came out, started training with me, and he's not he's not with us anymore. But when he first started training us like he was.

A white belt in jujitsu, but man, when he got in the cage, he would just elevate man like mentally, psychologically elevate and he would perform way better in the cage.

And then I've had other fighters that you'd get it like they would be kicking people's asses in training and then they get in the cage and it's a down step.

And it's so hard to see that so hard is because sometimes those guys are very committed and they're working hard and they're doing great and they just get in there and just it's a psychological thing.

Some people are dwarfed by the moment. It's very interesting to see. It's some people are also afraid of the embarrassment of losing.

That's a big one.

And they can't trust the process. They can't just they can't just remove themselves and just go out there and fight. Mm hmm. Do you follow Muay Thai at all?

A little bit, but not to any great extent. There's a guy who George Saint-Pierre brought into his training camp when he was doing the ultimate fighter, John Jean-Paul Schabowski.

And he's this French savage moiety fighter who would basically get drunk every night, showed up at training at GSP Camp Drunk like he was out all night.

He was in Vegas. Right.

So the ultimate fighters in Vegas drinks all night, shows up in the day the next day and fucks everybody up. And they're like, this is so embarrassing. The guys were like devastated. Like, this guy literally came in holding.

He's got a cup like from like one of those to go cups from one of the Vegas clubs. He showed up in the morning, see if he could find it, because it's kind of hilarious. Looks like a guy who should be driving an Uber, OK? He's not built like a savage.

He's just his mind is just he's got the I don't give a fuck and he's got it down.

And it was a, you know, world champion morente fighter beat champions at Lumpini Stadium in Thailand. And just an amazing fighter.

Well, you know, you always hear about the comparisons of a black belt in jujitsu versus a white belt. Right. Something is known and it's real, real obvious. But when you get at a high level of Muay Thai, it's very similar.

Maybe not quite as similar because there's always this idea that, well, you know, I at least know if I throw at least know as a human how to throw a punch. At least there's some idea. Right? There's some like a normal human has no idea of how to do an Ormoc zero. You at least know have some concept of how to throw a punch.

So there is a quite cowpunchers chance. But I remember the first time I sparred with the real morti guy I was.

I felt like a white belt. I was like, oh, OK. Because I would think about throwing a kick and I would get, you know, kicked myself. I would think about it and get kicked. Oh, he knows exactly what to do. Just like a white belt jujitsu. You know, you can predict everything that they're going to Dariusz.

So it shows up. I mean, look, know six pack. I mean literally looks like a guy.

If you saw that guy show up like this dad bod motherfucker, just just he showed up straight from the club. I mean, you can kind of tell he's drunk and he gets in and starts training with these guys and see if we can get to some actual training footage because they were they were humiliated.

I mean, he was rag doll on these dudes and beaten the shit out of them and dropped them.

And it looks like nothing. But it's the the problem, you know, he's a world class kickboxer.

Yeah. And these guys just really have no idea how to handle his movement and the the skills that he has.

Yeah. People underestimate people don't think there's as much of a difference between, like a black belt in jujitsu and what would be considered an equivalent, you know, world champion morti. Oh yeah. It's a big step, step and step in the ring and see you guys sometimes get cocky about that.

I had a buddy of mine who was taking the fight and he wasn't doing any striking. He was doing very little striking. And he's a really good ground fighter.

And I said, do you know how you can toy with the guy on the ground?

And they really have no chance. He goes, Yeah, I know people could do that. You standing like you have to understand that the fight starts standing.

It's not like you like it's not Ebbie rules where you start on the guy's back and, you know, you have a real good chance of submitting him. If you've got a great running joke, this is not that.

This is you start twenty feet away from the guy and you're standing and, you know, you have to close that distance.

You're not a great wrestler either. Yeah, well, that's the key component, right? Yes, it's a giant factor, because if you if at least if you wrestle, you can go.

Well, at least I know I have a decent chance of taking them down. Yes. A decent chance. And even that's no guarantee anymore.

Well, I go back to Mark Schultz when he fought in the UFC, you know, when Mark Shields fought in the UFC only fight one UFC fight. But that's when we got to see like a world champion Olympic gold medalist, top of the food chain wrestler.

You're only on your feet if he wants you to be like you. Good luck throwing that punch or kick because he you have no chance. He's going to close the distance and drag to the ground unless you have a really good takedown defense. Back then when he fought Big Daddy, good rich people didn't really have it unless they were. Wrestlers didn't really have good takedown defense, it had really been established as like a part of the whole skill set of M-m, yet you basically had what you came in there with your karate guy that said you had your moiety guy.

That's what you got. You got to hope you land that elbow before that guy clinches with you.

And there is there is a overall strategic advantage to grappling. Yes. Because you can close the distance. And if you're going to punch me, you have to get close enough to you have to make contact with me, which means I can grab a hold of you and get you down. That's why that's why the early 50s, it was like, oh, you're going have to get close enough to either punch or kick me. And when you do that, I grab a hold of you and get you to the ground.

Also, the chaos factor, especially in a street fight, the chaos factors like bodies are flying. There's bad timing. The clinches happen. It's not like every you know, you watch the occasional street fight where a guy tees off on some drunk guy and, you know, lands the perfect punch and knocked him out cold. That does happen.

But you know what also happens, melee wild shit misses and then someone clinches.

And then the worst thing in the world is the fight. A grappler who's good at takedowns. When you're on the concrete, that is the absolute worst thing in the world. You get suplex on your head, on the concrete. I mean, one of the worst things you could ever happen, you basically getting hit in the head by the world.

Yeah, well, this is why I when I talk about, you know, people say, well, what kind of you you always say jujitsu for self-defense, but, you know, you shouldn't let a street fight go to the ground.

Here's here's how it works out.

If you come to me and you want to fight me and you like, square off, like in a boxing stance, I can run away from you. Right. I can just run away. I can just run away. I mean, get away from me. I want to fight you. If you want to kick me, I can run away from you like there's my primary self-defense is I'm just going to run away from you. When you grab a hold of me now, everything's different, I can't run away anymore.

Now I have to actually know how to handle myself in a grappling situation. So that's why I start with jujitsu and look, absolutely learn boxing, learn more time, learn wrestling. Absolutely no doubt about it. But the very first thing you need to learn is because if you want to fight me, I can run away. If you square off, you know, you put your dukes up and say, come on or you push me good. I'm running away.

That's fine. I'll I'll take that. But when you grab a hold of me now, I got a problem because I can't run and away run away.

No problem is the ego where people don't know how to fight and someone puts their dukes up and they decide to see what they can do. They decide in that moment to either fake it or just like see if they can possibly hit the guy and then they get spanked.

So many tees off on them.

Yeah, I think that's I think the the whole thing with CTE right now. That's why I think the popularity of jujitsu is going to continue because it's a large part of fighting. Same with wrestling, grappling in general. I think it's going to continue to get more and more popular because because of CTE, because, you know, as a parent, you're not looking, hey, I really want my kid to be sparring a lot when they're thirteen.

Right now. There's not too many parents that are saying that right now. It's not a good idea. Yeah, so I think. But you still want your kids know how to fight, right? So how are we going to do that? Well, we're going to teach jujitsu and wrestling and let them have that base. And then if they get older, hey, should they know how to throw punches? Absolutely. Should they get in the boxing ring sometimes and do some more time, which is.

Absolutely you should absolutely do that as a human. But, you know, you can do that when you're seventeen, maybe sixteen, you can start getting that stuff in. But the kids jujitsu, I don't think is anything else better for him?

I completely agree. And I think with martial arts, what's striking, it's good to know, just to know distance, just to understand where you're safe, where you're not safe, and understand Telx, understand what's happening when someone does this, when someone does this and then this is coming. When they do this, this is common.

Like you should know that some people don't know that. You should know how to protect yourself, how to keep your hands up, how to duck under things. You should know that it should you should understand the timing. You should understand distance and timing. Those are important things. But fucking swinging knuckles with some guy in the street is so goddamn dangerous because first of all, you don't know what he knows and you're everyone's vulnerable. Everyone, every person who gets punched in the face is vulnerable.

And if you just want to have like some sort of a kick boxing match, it's a man on the concrete.

Like, I don't advise that. No, I advise clench and trip. Yeah, I advise. Get out of there.

Yeah. Get out of advise.

Yeah, definitely. If someone wants to start some shit with you, you're absolutely better off just swallowing your ego and getting the fuck out of Dodge.

I that's the Warrior Kid books. Yeah. Teach those kids, hey, there's going to be problems, there's going to be bullies. Mom if you can do you don't need to fight them. Yeah. And what's oh I heard somebody hit me up you know, because I'm always told people change you do. To change you to have somebody hit me up. You know, I've tried it, but I don't I want to try to try to do a couple of times, but I don't like to fight.

And I'm like, hey, if you don't like the fight to fight you more than anyone else, you should learn jujitsu. Because if you know jujitsu, you probably your chances of having to fight will go down a lot.

Just by the way, you carry yourself just the way by by the way, you present yourself the chance of you having to fight go down a lot.

Also with jujitsu, you're involved in real life struggles. The thing about like karate sparring and a lot of light sparring is it's not the real chaos that comes with an actual fight, whereas jujitsu is full blast. Someone's trying to get you. It's so you get used to full blast. You get you get accustomed to it. You know what to expect. If someone swings for you and you clench with them. You know what it's like to resist with a one hundred percent noncompliant body.

You know, someone's like fucking really trying to get away from you. Really.

It's not like play sparring. Yes. You can go full out. And you know where this brings us right back to.

Police officers. Yes, well, Andrew Yang said it best, he said, I think that every police officer should be a purple belt. Purple belt. That's an incredible statement. A good level, right? It's like an attainable level within a couple of years. But with a couple of years, man, you get your ass kicked, you kick some ass. You've you've like a purple belt is basically a black belt who hasn't done enough time yet.

It's all it is. Yeah. I mean, once you've got past blue Belic Blue Belt is I put in the time I've learned how to do some stuff and maybe I'll do this. I might make it, I might a purple belt like you. Basically everybody who gets a purple one gram go hang in there.

You are a fucking black belt. What's better to say. And you're a black belt in jujitsu. You're going to be a black belt in jujitsu. Just keep fucking going. You already have exhibited enough technique that you could actually one day achieve that. Just keep going.

Yeah. The amount of confidence and and mental clarity that cops would have if every cop was a purple belt.

Oh, be amazing. Amazing. And nothing better that we could do than to just somehow make that happen. Yeah.

Good idea for Andrew Yang, the horrible video of this guy involved with this lady. And he's he's a cop and he's talking to this lady and she's noncompliant. He grabs her and he fucking brute strength, sir, to the ground and throws her on her stomach and then gets in a rear naked choke. And people are filming this. And yeah, it's a terrible rear naked choke. You tell he sucks. The whole thing's terrible. Like, I couldn't imagine a black belt ever handling it that way.

Ever, ever. First of all, you wouldn't be so threatened by her not physically threatening at all. And you wouldn't want to bully her and show her that you could throw her around like that.

It wouldn't happen. It wouldn't happen. Fear, that's fear kicking in. And it's fear not only of his ego, but he might be legitimately he.

When's the last time he put hands on somebody? I mean, if you put hands on people, you know, you don't have to do what he did in that situation and seen the video. But you don't you know you know, you don't have to do that.

I think he's just a pussy. When I'm looking at the video, I'm like, I just think he's just wants to throw his weight around, which is another thing you wouldn't do if you know how to fight. That's part of why a lot of people act like that, is because they really don't know how to fight. And that's really they really don't know how to do that to a grown man.

So when they're doing it to someone who they can do it to because they're just bigger, they do it, they'll force them to impose them so they'll be a bully.

It's it's horrible to see.

But you wouldn't see a black belt doing that to somebody just about the amount of confidence that. Exactly. Exactly. And it's the same thing with kids. Yeah. I posted some of a few months ago, but it's, you know, some some bully thing. It popped up and I said, hey, if you want to stop bullying, you know, have kids trained jujitsu, morti wrestling, they should have it in school.

They should. Oh, yeah. Kids in school. And here's the thing. People thought I said not only will it prevent them from getting bullied, it will prevent them from bullying.

Yes. Which people don't understand. People cannot comprehend what that means. And it's exactly what you just said. If somebody actually knows how to fight and you've been humbled and you've been beat down and you've been choked, you know what that feels like and you know what it means and you know how that feels. The chances of you look, you could still be an asshole, but the chances of you becoming a bully are way less, way less than if you're insecure and scared and have a, you know, trying to make up for your ego by abusing people.

That's who becomes bullies with kids and with adults. One hundred percent.

The more the more you train, the more secure you are. The smaller your ego is, the more you're able to step back and see things clearly. You know, that's one of the horrible things about that.

The George Floyd was the other cops. They're not detached from the situation. They're all wound up in it. And jujitsu teaches you and fighting teaches you that if you do that, if you allow yourself to get wrapped up in the stuff, you're going to you're going to make bad decisions.

I think also for kids, a lot of the reasons why they do horrible shit is because they have too much fucking energy.

Oh, jacked up with young hormones. Oh, yeah. Testosterone. Yeah. Testosterone and.

And angst and angst and bro, it's kind of fun, right? You know, like you, it's kind of fun, like there's mayhem going on. Yeah, and well, is that the right word? Am I a jerk for saying that? I don't know. When I was a kid, that kind of mayhem, I wanted to be a part of it, you know, and actually talking to one of my L.A. properties.

And I was asking him the difference between, like the the 92 riots was in 92, 93, Rodney King, those those riots and these riots, those riots, he was like those were the people that kind of instigated and started and perpetuated those riots. Those were real like gangsters, like shot callers were making those things happen. This one these riots were he was like, yeah, these are kids. These are kids that drove down from Riverside. These are kids that you know.

And and, sure, some of their some of their attitudes was like, hey, there's been, you know, injustices against police. We want to stand up to that. Got it. And then he said, of course, there's a criminal element as well that are legit, normal robbery crews that are saying, oh, cool, we got some good cover right now. Let's get in there and make some, you know, steal some stuff and we probably won't get caught.

But that's that's a big difference. So you do have an element of kids that are like, oh, there's some mayhem going on. There's some mayhem going on. Guess what 17 year old boys like? They like mayhem. They like mosh pits.

Right. You love that stuff. Yeah, that was my childhood. If there was some mayhem, I wanted to find it. Right. And that's that fuels these things.

Normal boy behavior, normal boy behavior, especially when those boys are getting told don't go out.

And they're being locked up in houses right now with Crovitz there, they got free steam coming out of their ears and also and the cops are going to stand down.

We smash windows and steal shit and everybody can get free sneakers. Yes, nothing to do with George Floyd.

It had so many things to do with so many different steps, so many different factors that have collided together on that one day. Yeah, yeah.

It's it's man, I don't know how this will end up, man. I don't know how it ends up either.

And ends of me getting the fuck out of L.A. gone. Huh. Oh looks like it got on. Looks like it. I don't, I don't see the benefit.

I want to come back and visit a lot, but it's just it's just not not a smart place.

Yeah. I'm unfortunately managed either. I'm rooted here unfortunately by the ocean. Yeah. Because I'm an ocean guy. Yeah.

And so there's really limited choices in the world.

Yeah. It really is. That's a problem. You know, they kind of got me.

You're that connected to the ocean. What is it about the ocean that you always post pictures of the sunrise in the ocean. I don't think there's, you know, going surfing, just going just going in the ocean and plus my my life was kind of being in the SEAL teams was always we always had that. It was part of our life. You know, part of our life was the ocean growing up in the ocean just.

There's some I don't know, you know, I guess I guess for me, it's a huge, like nature thing, right? You know, people you should you should go outside, go outside and go hiking a mountain. You know, go go to Montana and hike around and see what that feels like. Go to go to Idaho, check that out. Go to the mountains, go to California mountains.

You feel different. You feel different, you feel humbled, you feel small, you feel perspective. So the ocean does that for me.

And it's just mind clearing, right? You go out surfing like your mind is clear. It's kind of like jujitsu. Hey, you've got to get out there. You don't even know what you sometimes you don't even you know, you get done with a good role in jujitsu and you say, well, he will.

You don't barely even remember it because your mind is just gone, you're just monkey mind, Zen is total Zen state, same thing with being in the water for me, surfing, same thing like, oh, I'm out here and my mind is just empty. It's monkey mind and and I think that's really good for you. Plus the fact it's humbling, plus the fact it's healthy. So yeah, I just have a strong connection to the ocean and I'm like my son's real waterman, you know, he's out, he serves all the time.

I'd hate to do that to him. And then my little daughter's getting her surfing art. So, yeah, it's just one of those things, man. Yeah, I get it.

There's a reason why surf towns like like towns that are near the ocean or chill, you get humbled by that.

Like you take yourself seriously. Look at that fucking body of water over there.

Stupid, you ain't shit.

You know, people say, well, it makes the SEAL team so good in one of the major components is the ocean. Because when you've got to do an operation that involves the water, it just sucks. It just everything about it sucks. Everything about it sucks. You're getting in a you know, you're parachuting from a plane into the water. It's nighttime. You got boat, you're freaking parachute like drifting around. You've got to get your motor started.

It's freezing cold. Boat's flip over. Then you're going to drive that boat to the beach and you've got to drive through the surf zone. Your weapons are covered with sand. You're freezing. It's just everything sucks. Everything sucks about it. So when that's kind of your starting and by the way, you haven't even conducted your operation yet, you haven't even started the operation and you're freezing cold. You're tired, your radio got flooded out. Your night vision goggles are freakin filled with sand.

Everything sucks. And now you got to conduct your operation. So in order to survive that way on a regular basis, that's one of the things that makes the SEAL teams good, is we're we're used to this one additional component all the time that you always have to deal with.

You have to figure that out. You have to be able to gut through it. That's right.

And basic SEAL training just put you in the water for a long time. They just put you in there.

We have to develop an attitude that embraces the suck. Oh, yeah. Yeah. For sure, you actually enjoy it in some way, some crazy way that, you know, it sucks like that video that I always quote your video. Good dude.

I listen to that in my head all the time, and I'm blessed. I've watched the video a ton of times and listen to it.

I played it on this podcast at least four times, but I hear it when I'm training, like if I'm running hills and I'm fucking exhausted and there's like another hundred yards to get to the top of that hill, I hear.

Good, good, good. You're exhausted. Means you're fucking doing it. Good. Well, suck it up.

What are your what's your choice. What else are you going to think about.

Cry, you know, cry. I'm going to do it. No, it's like no actually. Good. Bring it. Let's make this happen. Yeah.

And if you can do it, I also do that in the sauna when I'm exhausted in the sauna and it's like a hundred and ninety degrees and I'm nineteen minutes in and you know, doing a thirty minute session. I'm like good, good sucks.

It means it's going to have a great effect on your body. You going to get that comedic effect. This is how you get the heat shock proteins. Pussy hang in there.

Good. If you want to, if you want to do something that's worthwhile. Yeah. It's going to suck. Yeah. It's just going to suck and you might as well just enjoy that part of it.

Yes. Yeah. I mock myself to the thing I do. Oh you make fun of yourself.

Oh all the time. Yeah. I get pissed at that little part of my brain. I'm like, oh really. You think you're going to listen to you. Yeah. Not happening. Not happening.

Yeah I did these like I put these things in the kids books, you know what I mean. Put those things. Yeah, those kids books. Like there's a one of the kids books talks about this whole horrible hill, you know, like this. What's this. What you going to face. Horrible hill and what are you going to do. You know it's going to suck. She's got to do it. Yeah, you just do it, but the thing is, it's always sucks while it's happening.

It's always fucking horrible. But then when it's over, it feels great that you got through the suck.

And I don't think most people who don't experience suck. They don't experience that feeling of conquering stuck. Yeah.

And that's the that's the important thing to try and remember. So you remember it? I remember it. I remember what that was. So even when it's sucking, I'm like, I know how this is going to feel. I don't know, plays out. And you know what, actually I know other feeling, you know, is when you don't do it.

Yeah. And the end of the day comes, you're like, dude, that was pathetic. You didn't even you know, you.

And that's just the worst feeling. That's the feeling that really makes you sick.

And so between that carrot and stick carrot being like, I know this is going to be good and stick me, I know at the end of the day, if I'm putting my head on the pillow and I was a bitch, that doesn't feel good. I don't want none of that.

So worst feeling of all time. It's being disappointed in yourself.

Well, it's also when you're a type of person that wants to achieve. And so you're always trying to get things done.

You're trying to push yourself when you fall short because of cowardice or because it is the worst feeling or just just failure, any kind of failure.

The reason why you one of the reasons why I mean, I can speak for myself personally, I do think so hard is because I've felt that sting of failure.

You need to know what that feels like, especially when you quit.

You need to know what quit. Yeah. See, that's it.

You need to know when you're on and you need to hear that that fucking sting feel that sting so that when it comes up again, you're like, not today, bitch, not today. I've been here before. Keep going. Keep going. Find a way. But there's something about good like just even saying it. It makes me smile.

Really does. It works. It really does work because it's an attitude changer. And I used the song song is really easy.

It's not that. It's just fucking thirty minutes, you just deal with it.

But there's something about those last eleven minutes that you can get in your head like fuck me. I probably get the good effect if I just leave now.

There's like all these little mind games you play, but if you just say good I suck, good, I start smiling, you can rationalize lot, you can start rationalizing of why.

Well you know, these last four minutes won't really make that big of a difference, a shift in perception.

And I always noticed that from listening to music when I run like there's something about listening to a great fucking song when a great song kicks on, when you're running like if I'm running in Ted Nugent, stranglehold comes on, you know, there's something about stranglehold because it also has like a double meaning, right?

It's jujitsu.

It's trying to fucking you know, you're like this. So when you hear that here I come again. Now, baby, I can run, I can run, I can get extra energy. I'm like, where the fuck is that energy coming from? Well, it's coming from my mind, right? The music stimulates my mind. It kicks in those endorphins. And then all of a sudden I got an extra gear. Yeah, well, how come I can't just conjure up that fucking extra gear?

I think you can. You can't got to figure out how to do that all the time.

Yeah, that always is horrible to see. Like, you know, in a fight when a guy either he loses a fight and after he lose the fight, he's raging. He's all mad. But he was just gassed.

Right. He was just gassed. Where was that? Where was it? Where was that.

Right there two and a half minutes ago. Yeah.

I mean, sometimes just overcoming anxiety for fight or sometimes it's just when it's over and the plug is pulled, you know, it's over and then like, fuck.

Yeah. And then they're angry and raging because they realize they failed. They didn't manage their energy correctly. They didn't manage their mind. Their anxiety. Yeah, exactly the same feeling a fucking loser.

I'm a loser. Oh I'm so hard on myself and everything I've ever done wrong. Everything I've ever said wrong.

Just everything just said I could I'll be I'll be in the middle of working out sometimes and I'll think about and go fuck.

But that is also that, that's what makes you self. Yeah. And that, that keeps you going.

That key that makes you achieve. It's like people think that it's easy to just kind of go out there and get things done.

But it's not.

It's that's why most people don't do it.

Yeah. You know, I don't sleep a lot. Right. And sometimes people are like, hey, look, I'm not saying you should shouldn't sleep. Everyone should sleep as much as they can't. I don't sleep a lot. People like, hey, why don't you sleep more?

And I'm like, bro, I wish I could like I wish there wasn't this little thing in the back of my head going, hey, hey.

You know, you're actually you could be doing a lot more right now. What about this? What about that? What about the other thing? Like that's what's going on in my head.

There's not something that's going, gee, I have to get up like, no, there's a thing in there going, you better get up.

You better get up there tracking on you. They're watching you. You better get up. It's happening. There's a back out there. You're training harder.

Like, that's what's in my head. It's not in my head like. Oh. Oh, hey, please let the freaking let let the freaking powers of the world allow me to go into bed at night and just pass out and be like, oh, I'm I'm good. I'm satisfied with my life right now. I wish I could feel that for freaking eight hours a night.

It ain't there. It ain't there. It's like, oh, people talk about staying hungry and starving. Starving all the time.

All the time. Like, stay hungry. Yeah. You have to like.

Yeah, yeah I know. It never ends. It doesn't end. That's a thing. And as soon as as soon as I get somewhere, as soon as I get somewhere I'm like oh well that's where I need to go. I need to go somewhere else.

Yeah. It, I get about getting soft. Yeah.

Yeah. Always no matter what I've ever done in one day they'll be a thing, I'll become satisfied and calm.

Know with everything that's good that comes now there's an equal fear of becoming a pussy, there's a fear of now becoming lazy and becoming like second rate and just like God damn it, there's no end. There's no so now I don't even think there's an end.

No, there's definitely no, no, no. That's that's what's funny about shooting the shoot in the bow. Right. Is what I find funny about shooting the bow is.

Anger, aggression really doesn't help you at all, at all. You know what it fucks you up on? Yeah, that's what I'm saying, because anger and aggression is fast twitch shit, too. It's all movement. Whereas the bow is like you got to have the mind of no mind. You going to just just execute and just stay completely focused on the task, totally detached from what's happening and just kind of sit there.

And it's a new skill really. Oh, it's totally new.

And for me, like the competition that I experience, I only the only competition I had other than inside the gym, you know, training partners is fighting and that's all fast stuff. It's all like explosions and movement. So any time where there's danger and anxiety and fear, your body's geared up to go quick and move quick.

But with hunting, it's the opposite.

When you're drawing back on an animal, all that anxiety like you better get that quick out of your head. Yeah, yeah. There's no quick there's execute and calmness stay in the zone. Nothing is exists other than the process of executing the perfect shot.

It's the same thing with shooting. You know, you have you crawl fast, you move fast, you draw fast. I'm going to shoot you punch out that weapon, you got to go boom.

And you just got to let that thing go. Yeah, I used to see guys, myself included, like you shot had plates before. Yeah. Like the six had plates.

You'd see me or someone else. They miss one.

And if they don't fall, if they don't let that go right then everything falls apart. The wheels fall off. If you, if they miss one and then they try and shoot, usually I would just miss one to just keep shooting like it didn't even happen. Maybe go back and get it where you kind of have to go back and get it. But if you go, oh, how do I miss that?

Oh, it's just a total and complete and utter disaster.

Great video that Tim Kennedy put off of him shooting on the range. And, you know, he puts dummy rounds in with his regular rounds and he hits the dummy round and click.

And he's a little at that trigger control, like trigger discipline, because, like, there was no flinch. There's no doubt that it was just click. There's no movement. It was perfect, you know, which is what you're trying to achieve, what you're trying to achieve.

You're trying you know, the last thing you want to see is quick. Got weird. Fucking remember when I first started shooting rifles?

Like, that's what I would I was I would experience that thing.

We were anticipating the right, you know, thirty, a windbag, three hundred women. So it's got a lot of kick to it, you know, it's a boom, it's like a loud loud kicking gun. So there was no round in the chamber and I pulled it and I saw myself doing them like you bitch. Like you better learn how to stop doing that. One thing that's interesting is learning how to shoot a bow radically increased my accuracy with a rifle.

Oh, yeah, radically. Yeah.

Because it's so still to so much stillness and everything's free hand. Right. You very rarely shooting a rifle at an animal friend, usually trying to find a rest unless it's like inside of, you know, 60, 70 yards, you're probably going to try to rest. You're not going to shoot a three hundred yards shot with a rifle free hand, but with a bow, everything's free hand. So with a rifle, I just knew that all it was just squeeze, squeeze, squeeze.

Let it go off. Just let it go off. Squeeze, squeeze is boom. Like when I started shooting at Tarran tactical shooting on the range.

The easiest thing for me was a rifle. I was like, oh god, I'll have to do is just squeeze the trigger, go off.

I'm so used to a bow where there's so many moving parts and using your back and you letting it go off a surprise shot.

It made a big difference in my rifle accuracy.

Yeah. That was when when Dudley was teaching me how to shoot and Andy was there too.

So Andy was like translating for me. He's like, hey, what do you mean? He's translating it to seal. Right. Pistol shooting. And they're kind of like communicating to each other.

And then and he said, hey, what he's saying is like, you know, Frontside Focus. I was like, OK, cool, got it. You know, and I was awesome to have have freaking Dudley.

I know the first person that ever shows me anything about Archer is Dudley saying, hey, here's a bow and here's exactly how to shoot, you idiot. And I'm like, thank you.

That's pretty goddamn lucky. Yeah. I mean, we're both real lucky in that regard.

I learned how to Bougon from Campaigns and John College.

She's it's pretty lucky.

Those are those are like the world champions. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's that's Jordan and Kobe Bryant or Jordan and LeBron completely. Yeah, 100 percent. Yeah. It's we're very fortunate. And it's there's something about hunting too that once you it's, it seems like when you look at it on the surface, it seems so straightforward.

Then once you start doing it, it's very much like martial arts. Will you cut down.

There's a lot of layers to this.

There's so many layers, you know, and then when you're hanging out with a guy like Cam or a guy like Dudley and you hunt with them and you see them hunt, you go, oh, like this is I get it.

This is a black belt. Oh, this is some Mondiale champion here. Oh, yeah, yeah. It's exactly what it is.

It's so, so crazy. So crazy to see those guys in action and just to be like listening to what Dudley's telling me about what a freaking elk is going to do.

Yeah, he's got to come over here tonight. Yeah. I'm like, well, I guess that just about to happen. Oh, and it just happened.

Yeah, it's madness. And then we're Dudly to it's like he's so into cooking it too. He's so good at cooking.

It's like you get the whole lifestyle thing from him. You get like this learning how the the art of archery, which really is an art form, it's an art form just like martial arts are. And then this moment of keeping your shit together in the execution of a shot and then the big payoff when that does happen and then the harvesting, the animal carrying it out and then the meal, that meal afterwards, when you've had a successful hunting trip, it's like, God damn well we're in camp in Utah.

And Dudley made that neck, that neck roast with with jalapenos and the bell peppers and holy shit, that was good.

But it was also so good because you knew what went down. You know, you were there when he shot the elk. And it's all it's all so crazy. It's it's so satisfying that I can't imagine it not being a part of my life and not in that meat not being a part of my diet just changes you.

Yeah. So it's too bad that it's not more available to people, you know.

Yeah, it's not it's hard, it's there's a high bar for accessibility. It's very and we got real lucky for sure. We get to hunted the Deseret ranch and Utah, which is this incredible place. It's a private property, it's all wild animals. There's no fences, but it's private property. So there's not an overwhelming number of people, like there's a lot of guys that they try to go on a public land.

And unless you're willing to hike in 20 miles and there's a lot of guys that are willing now to hike in 20 miles because there's now this culture of these really fit backpack hunters like these Aaron Snider type dudes who put these fucking heavy packs on and they just go they they're training for this moment all year round.

Like Aaron has this crazy set up in his gym where he has this elevated treadmill.

And then each the treadmill on each side has like like an Olympic bar. And you lift the bar.

So you're holding weight and you're going up this elevated treadmill. I'm like, Jesus fucking Christ, man. But that's that's what you have to do if you want to be mountain fit to be able to do that. And that's the barrier for entry to go and do these public land hunts. Everybody stops at the trailhead, everybody gets out of their car. And then how far are you going to go? Because he's willing to go twenty fucking miles in.

Are you willing to go twenty miles in?

Yeah, it's going to take eight hours and then come twenty miles back out with a moose on your back.

We can do something that's like that's totally legit.

Yeah. Totally legit is legit as it gets. Yeah. And most of those guys all have to learn themselves. They all have to teach themselves and you know, they've all, you know, we're real lucky that like we get this amazing coaching. So we're getting these even though there's so many layers to it. And we're both I mean, I've been doing it now. I've been hunting for eight years, Bo hunting for, I guess, six, six ish total rookie.

You know, I'm still like a blue belt or maybe maybe on my get ready to be a purple belt. Maybe I might get my purple belt soon. But, you know, you go out with those guys, they're fucking tend to be black belts.

And it's like there's even though there's, you know, this barrier for entry, it is still possible.

It's still possible. But it's just like jujitsu. It's like when you when you talk to that blue belt you, like, keep fucking going.

Yeah. And you can make it. You can do this.

You know, speaking of which, I have to at least bring this up a little bit to clarify a little bit what I did to John Dudley on the jujitsu man broke his neck.

He broke this fucking union. Here's the only part that you're missing a little bit. Right?

So I'm giving him. His wife, like a like you describe it, so you broke his neck. His wife and their little dog was there, so it was getting worse. He broke his neck in front of his wife and his son.

So I'm just completely, you know, I'm chillin and like, this is this. This is that. And I'm not even I'm not even doing like this. In one weekend, Andy, John and me, we did we did archery, which I had never done before. Then we did jujitsu, which John had never done before. And then we went down the wind tunnel, which John had never done before, you know, because Andy's like a sky God parachuting, blah, blah, blah.

And so we did those three things. It was kind of like a cool weekend. I mean, that's kind of an epic weekend, really.

Let's be honest. So it's jujitsu time. So I'm like, OK, cool. So I'm going over. Hey, this is the guard. This is the man. I'm going over all the basic stuff. I'm I'm just giving the basic overall kind of concepts. So I get done with that, you know, and I'm done. I'm done. I'm just done. I'm like, OK, you know, great. It's good introduction. And then Dudly.

It's like, well, let's go a little bit. And I'm like, does the wrong language, I would have pulled them aside, come here so soon? So he's like, let's go a little bit. And even that, you know, I'm totally cool with that. Of course, he wasn't I he wasn't mean. And he wasn't thinking he was going to be here, wasn't he? He's he wants to experience. Yeah. I shouldn't have even said let's go a little.

He was like he was like, hey, can we can we try it, you know, something like that. Just being cool. And I'm like, absolutely, man. No problem. So so I lay down on the ground, right. And I'm like. He says, well, what should I do, I go, you know, just attack me. I lay down on my back and just attack me.

And guess what? He did what he did. He freaking attacked me. He, like, came at me. And Dudley's a big, strong, athletic guy.

Six. What is he, six? Five least. Yeah.

So he he grabs and I'm telling, you know, I'm just like, OK, well he comes at me, I think I like grabbed me and so I kind of replaced guard and then I sweep him and and saw mounted and all this is just pretty chill. And I put in a Ezekial choke. Right.

Which I have a little. Yeah. Nogi is equal to. OK, I have a little, I have a little good technique for doing it but no big deal. So I put in the Ziegel choke.

He's this is the thing that I really. Wish I should have explained more because we hadn't rolled, I wasn't like, hey, when you start to feel like you got to you've got to tap out, right? He knew to tap out, but I kind of figured everyone knows how to tap out. So I put the in on him. Right. Well, he doesn't know what to do. So he he's grabbing me and he's pulling he's squeezing me.

So he's on the bottom. I mounted I've got these chokin and in order to defend himself in his own mind, he's squeezing me into him, which the way I do my Ziegel choke it hurts. I mean, it compresses the choke even more.

And so what are you doing specifically?

Basically, I put my hand, I make a fist, and I put my fist in my sternum. And then I grab the forearm here and then arch my shoulder. So there's the neck right here. It closes it, right.

So it's putting the fist into the fist into right. It it's a it's a trache. It's an air choke. It's gnarly. And so I'm just doing this and you can see that hole and you shrug. But as I'm doing this, he's panicking and pulling me into him. Oh, Jesus. And he only did it for a second. And then he and then he taps out and I was like, yeah, you know, and I wasn't I was just like, oh, you know, boom.

And then he taps and then the rest of the stories, I guess I didn't know a lot about the rest of the I didn't know any of the rest stories maybe.

Yeah.

Fractured like his hyoid bone and then it build calcium up around it.

So he calls up Andy one day and he goes, dude, I think I got throat cancer because there's something growing in my throat.

And he goes, the doctor gets an X-ray and he's like, hey, did you do something to your neck? Because there's a there's a hairline fracture that's not now calcium deposit around it. And he's like, oh, I know what happened.

So. I guess. In my defense, why didn't you just get him in like a head and arm to yourself? It wasn't that it wasn't like a big deal. It wasn't it wasn't crazy. It wasn't crazy. It was just normal to be like if if you grabbed somebody that showed up, he was like, hey, you know, hey, can you roll with me? You'd be like, oh, cool. And you put him in a kind of whatever, presented something better.

Morcom, maybe you'd do a camera.

Problem is when you get used to doing certain types of jokes and then you're doing it to someone who doesn't, especially that where you got a fist. Yeah. In the neck.

And this is I guess this is the only thing. Make no mistake about it, even though I was just chilling, he was not he was going to level seven berserker mode on being such a good athlete.

You know, the other thing about people that have never done jujitsu, when they're doing it with someone who's a black belt, they probably feel like they can just kind of go crazy and you'll just absorb it and deal with it.

And so they just try it.

Let's see what happens when I go crazy. So now he holds us over my head.

You know, he broke his neck. I was like, oh, I know, I know.

One day I'm like, I'm like, we're up in Montana. And I said, Hey, man, he's like he said, he was at my house. He's our thanks for having us. Over I go, bro. You know, you taught me how to do this. You brought me up here, you take me hunting like you're doing all this awesome stuff, man. You know, you're the man, dude, I really appreciate. He goes, Yeah.

And you know what you did for me, Mike? What? He goes, broke my neck.

It's awful, bro.

Oh, it's all good now. All right. Oh, yeah. So I'm bothering them anymore.

Oh, I don't know about that. I thought you meant it's all good between us. It's all good with a new bow. Every good thing. Every time he swallows things about, you know, he coughs.

Oh no. He coughs hopefully. I mean, I haven't talked to him about it.

I don't like to break it up a lot, but so there's something in there that's fucking when there's something in there making him call so they'd have to probably get in there and scrape it. So while we're hunting, he would be like, yeah.

And then he'd look at me, oh no. I'm just thinking of such and such a horrible person.

Oh, no, it's you know, I was I always say, like, you know, Dean Lester, I had been bending Lister's training partner for 20 something years. Up until recently. He never hurt me. And I never heard him. Never. I mean, until recently. Yeah. Because he he he ended up hurting me and he ended up hurting me in the dumbest possible way I show up to class.

This was like this is over a year ago because it hurt my artery for a while. I show up to class late. Right. And he's teaching and we're just going to roll.

But I come out and he's like finishing the class and I'm cold and I'm just just getting on the mat. And he says, oh, let me show let me show something. Because he lay down and he gets a he gets a straight like he gets an American army or a camera. But anyways, he's like, hey, try and get out by straightening your arm and the whole class is watching.

He goes, try and get out by straightening your arm. And I go, OK, cool. And so he puts me across, he gets across and he puts the think it was I think there's an action of a camera.

He says this is all right now and this isn't really going to go like straight arm camera.

He's about the straight he's my my arm is here and he's about to straight. He wants me to try and get out by, like, doing almost like a hitchhiker game or something.

So he says he says, try and get out by shooting.

You're like, OK, I straight my arm and he just in a millisecond and you could hear it. Arm locks me totally destroyed my arm. No, not totally. It was injured very bad. The first time in my life I had to get a sling. This bro, this guy comes over to me, Dean Lester, and he goes and he's all he's such a nice guy. He's all, I'm so sorry. And he goes, I didn't know your elbow wasn't very flexible.

I called, it's an elbow. Elbows are flexible. They're bone.

Dude, I didn't know your elbow wasn't flexible.

Dean needs a DNA test because I know he's at least eighty six percent Neanderthal at a minimum, the way his neck and shoulders move together.

You can see that dude would like a big club for sure.

And a total, total mutinying and a seven on the digits about. Yeah, a complete savant on digits. Well, he's the literally the missing.

He's the link I shouldn't say the missing link. The link to jiujitsu expanding it to legalize modern jujitsu.

It's 100 percent cheap. Demoustier And the statement that he made to John Daniher is become world famous because Daniher set it on my podcast. He said Dean Lester said to him, why would you why would you ignore 50 percent of the human body? And Danaher being the fucking genius that he is, is like, why would you wonder?

Yeah, why would you so why would you know most of the like you know, all the all these new things that are coming out now, right? Yeah. You know, you see Gordon Ryan just insane. All these guys that are really attacking legs now. And by the way, just like Dean Gordon's not only good at attacking legs, he's good at everything, but.

I was asking Dean, because I watched Dean's done all these moves to me for years, you know, and just just over and over again, this is what we're doing with is what we've been doing.

We've been doing it since he won when when Eddie beat, when Dean won, when he beat Caccamo in the finals with what they now call 50 50, which he and I called Koka Rayco.

After that, we call that Calcagno and started doing it for another many, many years, probably 10 years regularly.

I was there that year. Oh yeah. And I wasn't there that year.

I was I was there when Eddie won in San Diego. We were all and I competed in San Diego. Dean compete in San Diego and Eddie competed in San Diego for the trials.

I was there for that, too. Eddie won. Yeah. Dean won. I lost to. Big country right now. Yeah, yeah, and I did because I wasn't very tactically smart, I scrambled to position and I tried to get a matter of fact, I got a crucifix because that was kind of one of my go to moves, get a crucifix and get a choke from there when I should have taken the back and gotten points. And I didn't.

And Roy Nelson, who is a great guy, and he's a total stud, he I got the crucifix position and he like. Powered out of bounds and so then and he he beat because he's a much better wrestler than me. And also introduced you to anyways when he won that like we were doing this stuff, so anyways, right, probably. Six months ago or three months ago, I was asking, Gina said, hey, Dina, are you starting to see things that you didn't know right when your watch?

Because he watches? I said, are you starting to see jujitsu things that you did that you didn't know, like Foot Locker stuff? And he's like he's like, yeah.

About three or four months ago, I started seeing some things that I didn't think of. So that's how long it took people to get to and then start to develop their own stuff, which is which is pretty crazy.

Well, it's fascinating that once the game moved into this sort of leg lock, heavy style that so many guys like Craig Jones and Gordon Ryan and there's, you know, Gary Tonin, there's so many of those guys that you're seeing this game getting tighter and tighter with leg locks.

Yeah.

And John Danaher examines everything, too, because Donahoe's body is broken. You can't really compete anymore. I mean, he has an artificial hip. He's got an artificial knee. His body is really fucked up. And his his other knee is really unstable.

So he can roll, but he can only roll very controlled with guys who understand his physical limitations. And then you can see how he understands positions. You can get a lot out of rolling with him. There's a great video actually of Gordon Ryan rolling with John Donner.

And obviously they're not using strength. They're just flow rolling. But you see how. Tactical he is, and how ahead of every position he is and how his deep understanding of it and part of it is because he's teaching these guys and he's teaching them from a position where he can't really do it himself. He can do it, but he can't can't compete. He can't roll. Right.

Right. But but but he has the mind for it. So he's seeing it from the outside. And he's also this fucking really genius human being. So he's able to break this down. And then he has this core group of badasses that understand what a great pleasure it is to have this genius teach you. I mean, it's not a coincidence that that whole Henslow Gracie team has become one of the biggest threats like that. The whole team is filled with fucking murderers.

Yeah.

And they're just to again emphasize the point is leg locks are a part of the game.

And there was a time period where people thought that leg locks would change the game completely. And at a certain point, the defenses for the leg locks become known and all of a sudden you have to go back to the other parts of jujitsu. And that's why you see guys like Tonin, right?

He doesn't always win with heel hooks, but you have to address them or you will lose.

Right. And yeah, those guys, it's really cool to see those guys coming up. I mean, it's such an honor. I'm seeing it coming up like I'm like like but I'm watching this development, which I was that kind of ground zero with Dean Lister.

And the crazy thing is Dean Lister, he he has like a like a crazy savant mind where I would create one thing for every whatever for every 20 things that Dean created.

It's probably like Eddie and I don't know Eddie as well as you do, but just the creative part of his brain is what the most powerful thing was. Yeah. And then once people saw it, they're like, OK, now we can build upon this.

For Eddie, it's 100 percent the creative part of his brain. Also, the fact that when I met Eddie, he hated lifting weights. He wouldn't lift weights because I would try to get him lift weights, the requirements of the going live shit like you can go lift weights.

So he was this little tiny guy and he had to rely on technique.

So he had to rely on trickery. Plus, he was a musician. Right. So he's always this creative guy and he smoked a lot of weed, too. So I was always thinking about things outside the box. And he's also this guy that doesn't like people telling them what he's wrong.

So, you know, you can't do it that way.

He's like, Oh, really? Hmm. Let's see if I can. And then he would find a way to do it.

And, you know, and he just developed all these, like, weird entries into things and these weird setups that people didn't see coming. And once he sort of improved upon these and then started expanding upon them and then developing that whole tenth planet system, I mean, really, it's insanely creative system that's just developed based on his ability to just think outside the box.

I had Jeff Glover at my training and my dream for a long time teachers, another gym. He he's the same thing where he's small, he's crazy, flexible.

He smokes a lot of weed.

And he would just do wild things. Wild things.

I was at I was that I was actually at ATCC House with my son. My son was probably like nine or something. And we're there watching. And Jeff Glovers about to compete. This is before I really was friends with Jeff.

What is he doing? That donkey yard thing.

Back then he was doing everything. He the donkey cart hadn't become super popular, but he was kind of in the beginning stages of it. So I'm sitting there next to my son and we're at ATCC. So it's a small thing. You know, I go and I said to my son, you watch this guy that's about to come out, he's crazy.

And Glover comes out and he just he falls on his back, flips, inverted guard and starts like just going insane, just doing insane things. And, you know, the rest of the matches are two guys, you know, playing patty cakes and look for the take down. Glover comes out, falls down, friggin just doing all kinds of Wilsonianism. It's a dude in thirty, thirty eight seconds and my son looks at me, he goes, he was I thought you meant like crazy.

He goes, I didn't know you meant crazy. And I go, yes, I thought you meant like Brutus. Yes. Bruce strange.

You didn't think I meant just weirdly quiet that what that weird creative thing is. Yeah.

That's one of the best things about learning jujitsu from a small person like those small guys. They figure out how to get around things. I mean, there's been a bunch of, you know, holographs. He's a great example of it. To Eddie go, oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's that's why I'm never a good that's why I'm a bad person to introduce people to jujitsu. Right. Because they just think, oh yeah, of course you're a gorilla. You know, you outweighed me by forty or fifty pounds. Yeah.

I love I used to always have Jeff Glover on standby at my gym be like, oh you don't. Oh yeah. OK, go, go. Training with that guy over there, see what happens. And when Jeff goes against a like a big strong guy, he's going to get some there.

They really get so disappointed in themselves. It's so sad.

He said he said the easiest people for him because we're big like muscular guys. Really this is the easiest people for him to roll with our big muscular guys like big muscular guys. He says, I love I love roll with them. They're so easy.

That's so crazy because most people get injured, rolling like glass, rarely inflexible. Yeah, his I think is I think his next jacked up. No. Oh is it now.

Yeah. That's a thing that gets everybody is the goddamn neck the you know, because the very few guys really strengthen their neck correctly either. I think the neck is one thing that you absolutely should strengthen. I think you can get away with not lifting weights and doing jujitsu, but I don't think you can get away with not strengthening your neck for very long.

Yeah, that's it's one of those things and it connects you to the rest of your freaking body. You also use it.

You use it more than you think. You know, especially me.

I was my my favorite technique is probably had an arm choke and you're using your neck to secure that arm.

And once you develop a feel for holding an arm in place with that neck, then it gets a workout that, you know, you really you use it a lot more than you think.

And if you can strengthen your neck, it's just it's such a big advantage.

It's also a big advantage in avoiding getting hurt because it strengthens the whole chain from the top of your spine all the way down. You know, that's why I'm such a big fan of that Iron Man. I just used it right now right before the podcast. I was doing it. I do it every fucking day, man. I put that. I have one. I bought one.

Love it. They emailed me a bunch of like, how do you like all good.

It's fucking awesome between that and, you know, there's a few other back exercises and stuff that I think are are critical strength. Strengthen the lower back too because it's another. The guys always get jacked is the lower back. Yeah, you know, the weird thing is people, people and people's necks get jacked up regardless, but there's people that go through life doing whatever paperwork and they end up with a bad neck. Neck is a vulnerable thing. So if you don't take care of it, especially when you are abusing it, when you are getting choked, when you are not tapping, it's one of those things that I judge people on their necks, on the size of their neck.

You have to see someone a little skinny neck doing man.

Yeah, do some good if somebody just just doesn't seem like it would be a good thing to have. That's the thing that holds your head on.

I can't wait for the future when your neck is all jacked up and you go in and they just put you in surgery for two hours and you come out, you've got a metal spine.

That's what's going on. I'm going to be the first person I'm right in line. You want to give me a metal spine or any metal components inside my body? You're done with that. I'm 100 percent down. Let's make it happen.

He's got a fake disk that he's got a titanium articulating disk which where lower back is his lower back had been so smashed and suppressed that his you know, that's one of the things that's why men, when they get older, they they shrink as your disks get squashed to the point and they start touching.

You get stenosis.

Do you think you can go too far with flexibility, that it starts to injure you over the long term?

Well, I don't think you can go too far with flexibility, but flexibility without strength, perhaps, because maybe that in flexibility, like maybe you'll get like some muscle damage.

You know, when you're trying to push too far, that'll prevent you from getting disk damage.

Maybe that's just speculation. But I think it's critical. It's just so critical to strengthen your back, man. I mean, I'm always doing reverse hypers and I do all these different, like back extensions.

I just think strengthening that whole column and yoga in particular, and then the next iron, I just think that whole thing, it's like too many guys just rely on their workouts to strengthen that. And they don't take it as like, hey, I really like doing jujitsu. I really like doing my tie. I want to put in the time to work out these areas. How's that? He's back now. It's not 100 percent.

It's still fucks with him a little bit, but he's rolling again. But he's got a fake disc's a disk. It's a titanium disk that they replace the smushing part with this thing that rolls and moves, but it still creates some inflammation whenever. Look, I know had Ronnie Coleman here last week.

I know. I listen to his whole back. It's all fused. And it's horrible, man. I mean, he can't walk. And, you know, he's the king greatest Olympian of all time. I mean, he's a fucking amazing pro bodybuilder. Eight time Mr. Olympia.

I watched him in the documentary. Yeah. Did you see the documentary? I didn't. I didn't really. Good man. Really.

Just what a good guy. Great guy. Nice.

Couldn't be nicer. Couldn't be in pain, in fucking agony and still work family and.

Oh wouldn't wouldn't have it any other way. And he talks about the days that he like he was talking about squatting 800 pounds and that like he said he's going to do it for two reps. And after the two reps I could have gotten more. And to this day he thinks he should have got more.

That's what we were talking about earlier.

That's keeping him up at night. That's why he's a champion. I mean, that really is that's what made him a champion.

Did you watch the video, The West Side versus the World documentary? No, I did.

With only I got to interview Louis.

I listen to that typewriter. I have another piece of his equipment, too, that belt squat machine, which is amazing. It puts all the weight on your on your hips versus on your back.

He's a fucking wild do wyant.

I want to go out there and hang out. Oh, he would love you man. He'd love you. He's you would love him too man. He's that is who Louis is and he's got this fucking gym filled with barbarians. Oh yeah. Just all they're doing is just trying to lift the maximum amount of weight they can lift.

It's insane. My kid. My kid. Watch that. And he you know, I think he's just all about it now.

Side with his little buddies talking about Louis Simmons. You know, he's contagious. Go heavier.

I mean, Jamie and I were in his office interview and that's where we did it. We actually. Oh, you went out there podcast at West Side? Yeah, I was in Columbus doing standup and I just had to interview him. I just knew. I knew just like I want to get the guy in his gym to is just fucking amazing. Give us a tour of the gym. And then we did a podcast at his desk. It was awesome.

What a rare human being.

Yeah. They don't make them like Louis Simmons, but also a genius like here's a guy who figured out, like his disk was fucked up and they were like, we're going to fuse you. And he's like, well, let me think of this.

Something made a compress. I'm going to figure out something to make it decompress and strengthen that area. And that's where the reverse hyper came from, which I think should be a staple in every gym, that reverse hyper machine for strengthening the lower back and then an actively decompressing. I've never found anything better. And that's all in Lewis Simmons mind. Came out of his own brain because of his injury. That he came back from Africa and was squatting, whatever, seven twenty nine world record at whatever 62 years old.

Yeah, but I wouldn't recommend anything he he does. I mean, here's a guy who got his biceps reattached and then blew it out because it was too annoying to not be able to work out. So he just went back to working out and pop snap back off a little cold.

So he's got no biceps, just pulls back. Crazy animal. He got his shoulder redone. They gave him an artificial shoulder, goes back to the gym and they like you're going to max out today. They his friends made him max out after his shoulder surgery with an artificial shoulder, like, OK, like just that's just the culture. Yeah. The culture is it doesn't matter. The injuries don't matter.

In the in the documentary, one of the guys was saying my goal. Was to hurt Louie when he came in the gym. My goal was to hurt him. I wanted him to get hurt. I wanted to pushing so hard that he got hurt.

And this is one of his buddies.

Yeah, one of his friends. One of his training partners. My goal was to hurt him. That's that culture, though.

I mean, that's how you develop such a legendary place. You have to have the sensibilities are beyond what a normal person would consider a prudent thing to do. Yeah.

And if people the people that could withstand that kind of pressure became champions, so became world record holders.

It's all about the Banjoko that nobody knows more than you. We just did three hours and we give you a covid test. Now it's three thirty. Let's get some. All right. Let's get some. Thank you, brother. Man Right on by everybody.

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