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Pageau, before we get started. Yeah. How about that colder wall guy that I just played for you?

How crazy is he was 21 when he made that song.

Is he close to twenty one right now. It's 25 now. Yeah. He sounds like Johnny like later. Johnny Cash. Johnny Cash. When did hurt.

Yeah. You know, so I'm like a pain.

Yeah. A depth. The richness. His voice so badass. It's weird. Like how do you, how do you get that a21. I want to see him in like 14. He probably developed early, probably went to some shit in his life. Oh, it's got to be some whiskey in that story somewhere. Oh, yeah.

He had to go through some real shit to have that that voice and that that just the just the sensibility this the mindset of those songs, you know, that Kate McCann and song like Jesus Christ, you have to listen to the whole song. It's crazy.

And it's like, yeah. One of the things I hope, like with your Spotify thing, is that you'd be able to play songs we want to.

But it's weird. It's like they they've left open. They're trying to figure it out. Right. All this stuff is basically there's a lot of work in progress. We're trying to figure it out.

Isn't my dream here?

Spotify, if you're listening, my dream is as a little boy, is to play Stevie Ray Vaughan or Jimi Hendrix on the Joe Rogan experience and not not be like nervous about it being like taking down a ride, because it's because I don't have the rights for to cover the song or whatever.

I wonder how that works for the artist. Well, for someone like Stevie Ray Vaughan or Jimi Hendrix, they're both dead. So would be the estate of the artist, which oftentimes, I believe probably makes it more slippery.

Yeah, because then you're dealing with people that, you know, kind of own it as a commodity rather than the actual artist itself.

But there's a difference. You like the Beatles and then the Stevie Ray Vaughan.

Whoever owns Stevie Ray Vaughan, you know, is like a bad, like mother effort that, you know, they're not going to it's not like corporate.

You would hope so. You never know, man.

I mean, he might have had a ex-wife who sold it who who knows?

You know, anyway, Spotify, please make it happen.

I almost had the opportunity to drive Stevie Ray Vaughan once when I was driving limos. Oh, wow. Yeah, man. But he wouldn't take limos.

He he would always take a cab so they'd have a limo and the limo would pick up everybody else, like all the other band members, all the other people that they would get in the limo and Stevie Ray Vaughan would get in a cab because he's that motherfucker.

Yeah. Just for the first time actually. Yeah. He is Israel. He is a genuine human being. I just for the first time listen to like an interview with him. Like, I've never heard Jimi Hendrix really talk or Stevie Ray Vaughan talk before this interview. And he was really drunk in the interview. And then I realized that there was there's a man behind the music. There's yeah, there's some pain, there's some drinking. And just just, I don't know, demons he was running from.

I think there's like a disconnect that you almost have to have from the normal mind to create that kind of sound. There's like like when you go to there's some some Hendrix songs like Voodoo Child is a great one, right?

Oh, just the sound in that guitar is so he's so out there. He's so wild.

You know, there's like a famous store where Eric Clapton first saw Stevie Ray Vaughan play and he was like, what the fuck am I doing?

Can I just get his? Eric Clapton is singing. Did I say Stevie Ray Vaughan to Jimi Hendrix?

You met Jimi Hendrix. I met Jimi.

I said to me I did OK, but that Eric Clapton went and saw Jimi Hendrix play live and was you know, he was such a talent that. Everybody else was like, what are we doing? Like, we you know, the cool thing is, I mean, I don't know if you know, but they had Eric Clapton and Jimi Hendrix both play a Fender is the same guitar you can imagine. And then Eric Clapton is this like warm, smooth tone.

I could just imagine Eric Clapton seeing, like, how the fuck did he get that sound out of that thing?

How did you pull that off?

Well, it's still Eric Clapton has some amazing fuckin songs and amazing sound. I mean, what's Layla that song? Lailah, God damn. Is that a good song?

Both acoustic and electric. He has an acoustic version. Oh, really?

And TV used to do this thing unplugged. Yeah.

So he played like Tears in heaven, which is hard when he lost his son, right. Yeah, that's his son fell off of a balcony. Yeah.

So much pain in that song. And then there's the bad songs.

The what is the to do to let it go down now down.

Yeah. I mean the thing about his music versus Hendrix is it was brilliant. I mean Eric Clapton is I shouldn't say was because he still is a brilliant musician. Brilliant, but. The sound falls in line, meaning it all seems brilliant and purposeful in uniform, and the songs are amazing, but it falls in line, whereas you know what I mean, like my mom about this shit that Hendrix would do more than dance.

And he was out there.

It was like this this new thing, man. It was just he was gone and he was fucking in his 20s. He died. He was 27 years old, which is so crazy.

And technique wise, I mean, I know you don't play guitar, but technique wise, you just didn't follow any conventions.

He was just like hits like thumb. He put it over the top and just like it was messy. And the way he played rhythm wasn't how anyone played rhythm. It wasn't like like three chords.

It was three chords. But every time he played those chords, they're always different. They always messed with it.

He was like throwing a little chaos. And there's songs like Machine Gun.

You know that one? Yes. I love that song.

Just like where where do they come from?

There's so many songs like where like if six was nine like that, that song like what is that.

What is that like. He just it's a lot of it is drugs. That's the truth. Yeah.

I mean, you know, that's sad truth. Come yes and no.

I mean it's it's sad in that he's not here anymore, but it's not sad in that what he accomplished in his 27 years on this planet still to this day haunts guitarists. Yeah. Like if you ask professional guitar, there was a a million brilliant guitarists.

I mean, there's so many you know, some people were big fans of Eddie Van Halen.

I mean, I think to this day, Stevie Ray Vaughan's version of Voodoo Child is it's it's you know, you always have to give the best credit to the original, which is Jimmy.

But Stevie Ray Vaughn's Voodoo Child is fucking amazing.

And it's him. It's clearly him. Yeah. He played it was done. I mean, I said it a million times. That's name this podcast. I stole the name from Jimi Hendrix.

The Joe Rogan experience came from the Jimi Hendrix Experience. Yeah, nothing. Nothing like them.

I just always been oddly attracted to him.

You know, that's a weird word to use, but that's what it is like, attracted to his music. And it's like there's something about him that just always resonated with me. You know, the old studio.

I had the Hendrix mugshot up and he also represents the 60s. Yeah.

The and also this psychedelic something experience like not not in it's like cheesy way, but like in a really out there way for the genuine.

Genuine. Yeah. Authentic. I mean the the fun tension because you're a health guy, he talk about like how to be healthy, how to almost like have a balance. But then at the same time you say that you celebrate the self-destruction that led to the genius of Jimi Hendrix, something I celebrate the self-destruction.

The self-destruction is an unfortunate aspect of that path. Right.

And there's a lot of weirdness to Jimi Hendrix death, if you know, like he had a gangster manager who apparently had him kidnapped just so that he could rescue him and convince Jimmy that, you know, he was a savior.

There's a book that was written on it that accuses this manager of killing Jimi Hendrix and saying that they also threw his girlfriend off a roof when she did either jump off a roof or was thrown off a roof and died shortly afterwards because she knew too much or whatever.

Who the fuck knows it was one of Hendrix bodyguards or someone who worked for the manager that wrote the story.

But the thing about that path, a path of drugs and destruction, it's been it's been a path of many of my idols, whether it's Kinnison or Richard Pryor or even Hicks.

You know, Hicks died from cancer. But a lot of that is probably attributable to him chain smoking and just a lot of drugs and stuff when he was younger and just destroyed his life. And then it's also like pancreatic cancer is a genetic thing as well. You never really know what's causing pancreatic cancer.

But, well, the your conversation with Mike Tyson actually symbolizes this in a really interesting way for me, because here you have.

Like one of the greatest fighters ever who somehow found inner peace through the whole like marijuana and marijuana thing, but just the way he was behaving just was positivity and just this good vibes putting him out there. And yet he now, for at least a brief moment in his life, rediscovered the darkness.

I was watching your podcast with him and the moment when you said, like, you were like having another level chat. He just took me like a few levels up by saying like that, you know, when he thinks about hurting people, sometimes it's orgasm, it's orgasmic, and you try to laugh it off. But there's like means of he's like, no, I'm serious.

Well, I mean, I was laughing. I mean, I wasn't really trying to laugh it off. I was laughing at the madness of what did that make you, by the way?

Donald Trump retweeted a clip of that.

I don't know what to do politically.

I don't know what the context of you were treated. Mike Tyson saying it was erotic.

Trump's like an old comedian who just happens to be president. And really, I mean, the same kind of behavior that a comedian has, the timing like his timing, like when the thing about Hillary Clinton, you'd be in jail.

Remember that the timing of that when they were doing a debate and she she said something about him, it's painful.

I went back and watch those debates. It's painful to watch. It makes me. As somebody who wants to see truth and positivity went out in the world, it pains me to think about the debates between Biden and Trump.

I think is going to happen. You don't think so?

No, I think I think the people in the Democratic Party are too wise. I think it's possible that Kamala Harris might debate pants.

I think that's probably and I think she'll do really well against pants is a bit robotic and careful and, you know, an evangelical, you know, super Christian, I think she probably do very well in those debates, you know, especially well, there's no audience.

So that's the thing, man. Those debates, a lot of it was like getting them zingers in.

Yeah, I think Trump needs an audience like a comedian. You said.

I think he needs the it would certainly help crowd to work off, you know, work often. How do you say Donald Trump, Jr.'s girlfriend's name, Kimberly. How do you say it?

Like Guilfoile? I think that Guilfoile I don't I'm the way it's written is like, why are we pretending that this is a this is like the correct use of these letters?

Because you shouldn't put all those letters together like that, like fix that.

But there's a great video that someone put together and I retweeted it or reposted it of her screaming this message to an empty room.

And then there's a beaver on the top of a mountain.

Yes. This is this is the thing that happened that is amazing, the Internet's the best, it's undefeated.

There's a thing about doing stuff in like audiences like here it is.

This place is your destiny.

You are capable of this, isn't there? It's still just find it on my Instagram. It's on my Instagram.

But it's so funny because it's like people are doing stand up these days on Zoom and it's bad.

Like really good comics look terrible doing standup. No audience. Yeah. It's just not how comedy's supposed to be. It's like.

It's like, you know, you have a battery and you're charging a battery, you have to put something on your plate real quick is so good and fighters for freedom and liberty and the American dream, the best is yet to come.

Something about a beaver screaming at the top of his lungs on the top of a mountain. It's so perfect. Yeah, it's so perfect.

20 twin, not sure it's but it's so perfect that beaver by himself on top of that mountain, just screaming, oh, oh, oh.

But I mean, it's amazing. It's whoever made that. Thank you. Thank you. Whoever you are.

But, you know, there's comics that are doing stand up in these Zoome things and it's like, you know, how you charge battery.

You have to connect the positive and then you have to connect the negative. You know, you have to there's two cables that you have to connect the two of them together. If you only connect one, it doesn't work. Well, that's how it is with standup. You have to have an audience is one of those art forms that you you need to have a reaction. The people have to be there. You feed off of them. You you create comedy with them.

And in a lot of ways, one of the things that that Trump does outside of these speeches and get everybody excited about things he's doing standup, he tells jokes, he talks shit. He he he gets laughs like they were saying like there was an interview with one of the one of the debates. You said terrible things about women. You've called women pigs. You've called them. This thing goes, wait, wait, wait.

Only Rosie O'Donnell, he says it's in the audience goes crazy. Unless they're told to not respond. They're told to not respond. The audience are told they can't help. But he just nailed it. He fucking nailed it. And it's like a comic old comic. And I don't know if he's the same guy as he was back then.

Just honestly, just being honest. The same way I would talk about a fighter like his father. Time wins every time.

If you listen to interviews with Donald Trump, maybe from the 90s, he is a different guy. Yes.

He's much like sharper. I mean, listen, I want to be just.

Yes. Like you just there's just reality. I mean, no one gets better when there are a hundred.

It's not like the guy's 100 and all of a sudden he runs faster. He talks better. He's he's reading more and writing more.

He he's better know we're dying. We're all dying slowly. OK, and I don't know what kind of pressure being the president is, but I can only imagine it's almost unmanageable.

And he's managed it better than anybody I've ever seen. But the reality is it's still pressure is still still father.

Time wears on you the the river beats down the rocks and smooth them out. There's no way around it. It's just it is what it is. So whether or not he still got that kind of timing, that's that's a real question.

But if him and Biden get into a debate situation and he hits Biden with a couple of zingers like that, I mean, I don't know how do you think Biden might get out of the debates?

He's going to he's going to have to get out the debates. I mean, if they're smart, if I was a Democratic strategist, there's no fucking way I would let him debate.

Like, listen, we're winning because the only reason why people are watching, the only reason is because they want Trump out of office.

You could have if if people the judge was in the position that Biden was in. It would be I mean, he would have a much stronger, so many, much stronger response from people, right?

Young person speaks well, if Tulsi Gabbard was in that position, did she could be president. I know the Democrats, for whatever fucking reason, didn't want her to be. But if she got into that position when she was debating, if she was debating with Trump and people saw her and saw her record, saw the fact that she served overseas twice for the fact she'd been a congresswoman for six years, saw how well she speaks, how honest she is, and she's the integrity of the character that you can see in the way she carries on.

See, the one of the big problems is the Democratic nomination process happened before coronavirus. Yeah. So like we were in kind of her like the economy was doing well. But, you know, things are going just regular. And so you kind of the boring generic candidate won out. What we need now is a great, like, inspiring leader. Yeah. Not somebody who is you know, Joe Biden's strategy currently is to just sit back and don't say anything and let Trump destroy himself.

When he says something, he jumbles his words up and he fucks things up and he forgets where he is. And it's like, you know, he's had multiple brain surgeries. More than that, yeah. Oh, yeah, I can play you some shit, I mean, like, it's kind of crazy. Hey, Jamie, I've ever played you this one. I'm almost finished, Jamie, but the.

Look, but the contrast was like Andrew Yang, I don't know if he wasn't enjoying these days, but he's András like teeming with ideas. Yes, with energy, with excitement, with a passion of different ways, things you can do.

And, you know, that's what we need now is an inspiring a leader that unites, you know.

But Weinstein is on as big as he talked about on your podcast, like uniting, having basically a center left and a center right candidate, just uniting the nation.

I'm sure I'm sending this to you right now, Jamie.

But, yes, the I love uniting the nation versus I think he's Andrew is a really interesting guy. Like, he's he's not the standard.

You know, like what what you're looking for from a guy who's running for president is one of the biggest things he's known for his universal basic income. He's basically saying, hey, guys, look, automation is coming and there's going to be a lot of people out of work. And how bright does he look now that we have seen that not automation, but the pandemic took out so many of these jobs and we did need universal basic income. It really was important.

And that same sort of situation could happen with with with that next I mean, from what we're dealing with now to what we could be dealing with, with another pandemic, plus automation, you're going to see a lot of people that are out of work. And it went from a place of people wanting economic prosperity to, hey, let's just make sure that people don't lose their houses. Let's make sure that people can eat. Let's make sure that people have a roof over their head.

And that's that's really where we were in the middle of the pandemic.

But the big thing, whether you agree and like automation, universal basic income or not, doesn't matter. The point is, besides UBI, he's a source of a giant number of ideas and he presents them in a way not saying Republicans are wrong and Democrats are right, but saying let's together figure out which of these ideas are right. He says he basically has an idea for everything the purple belt did.

Just look at it.

That's that's way more brilliant than you by now in this divisive time policing. Right. Have every cop get a purple belt.

Yeah, at least a purple belt. Yeah. Yeah. From a legit Brazilian jujitsu and maybe blue belt.

Second stripe. Like like a triangle. Yeah.

We'll know how to defend yourself. I mean, so many ridiculous videos I was watching. There's a an account I follow on Instagram called police posts.

It's basically a police oriented Instagram page. You know, it's like four cops educating cops and talking about situations.

And they show a lot of like situations where cops overestimate their ability to to handle things physically and they get fucked up.

And one of them today was this guy gets rolled over and beaten up. He just doesn't know what he's doing. And, you know, and that wouldn't happen if you were talking about someone. It's a purple belt.

I heard.

I don't know if this is true, but I heard in some places like New York, rear naked chokes, they're legally illegal now, which is like which which we should expand the jujitsu training to the people in government, too, because it doesn't make any sense. It's one of the most safe ways to pacify somebody.

Well, I think a lot of it had to do with the Eric Garner situation right where that guy got. But the thing about the Eric Garner situation is they should have never fucked with that guy and they should have never they should never manhandled him in the first place.

Forget about choking him.

They should have left him alone while the guy was doing was hanging out on the corner selling loose cigarettes.

Now I have a cough button.

Who we tried that it work better, Jim, I'm sorry, but the other guy can be good.

But the thing is, we should press it like in unison. Yeah.

Contrast this idea that they were going after this guy for loose cigarettes based on what happened after George Floyd protests where people were smashing windows and stealing things out of stores.

And the cops are just standing there. Right, because shit got so crazy that they let people just loot and smash windows and steal things. Meanwhile, they killed a guy who was just selling loose cigarettes. Yeah. All he was doing is standing there. He presented no threat. He was just trying to make a couple of bucks selling cigarettes, and they grabbed him, threw him to the ground and were choking him. I think that in public perception.

So what's the solution to that? How do you get those cops out, those humans out?

I think you need way better training and you need a lot of training. And Jakiel willing talked about it and he had a great position. He thinks they should be spending 20 percent of their time training and this idea of defunding the cops, because now you need more funding, you need more funding and more training, and you need to get rid of the ones that suck. And you need a really stringent process of elimination, the same way they have in the SEALs, same way they have in the Rangers.

You get rid of the people with weak character and there's a lot of people with weak character that wound up being police officers. And those are the ones that you're seeing. But there's also a lot of people, strong character, that do an amazing job. And no one cares about that.

You don't get a lot of those because what we're seeing is the videos that go viral are almost always bad.

There's one really good video from the the beginning of the George Floyd protest where this one cop in Flint gets together and says to these people that's protesting, we're with you.

We will march with you like we're not in opposition. We're in this community. And, you know, and I'm here to I'm here to be your friend. I'm here to help out. And that's what we're here doing as police officers. And they hug this guy and they're all hugging each other and then they walk together.

It's beautiful. It's beautiful. It brings a tear to you.

I that's that's what we want. Right? We want people that are police officers that are that have like strong character, someone who's like an exception. No human being, I think that's who you have to be to to have that job and defunding the police is not a solution to any kind of way.

I mean, this is what I think most people probably don't realize is, yeah, it takes an exceptional human being to to be a police officer in a sense that you have to be, especially in these times, just to be patient, because basically a large percentage of the population is at best skeptical at worst. Hate you actually now.

Yeah, especially now.

And during all that, you have to still maintain calm. You have to establish control. You have to help people. You have to serve the community, all those things. It takes an exceptional man or woman to do that. That and it's depressing to think because the exceptional humans in our society who would want to join the police force now?

Well, I talked about this with Edward Snowden recently. And one of the things that we said was that what what really needs to be done is we need to do something at the root cause of it.

What like why are there still these deeply impoverished communities in this country that haven't changed since the 60s and there's been no work done to try to improve them or whatever work has been done has been ineffective. There's still crime ridden, there's still gang ridden, there's still filled with violence. Like that's that's why there's so much crime.

There's so much crime because there's there's so many communities that it's just like deeply entrenched in what they are, whether it's south side of Chicago or parts of Detroit.

I mean, if you want to lower crime, you have to increase economic opportunity. You have to increase education. You have to make people feel like they're in a safer environment. You have to do something to make these neighborhoods better. Now, I'm a moron. I'm not the person to figure that out. I don't know how you make a neighborhood better, but it's not impossible. And when you look at the amount of money that they spent on stimulus to try to help these businesses during the pandemic that were suffering, like, why couldn't they do the exact same thing in the past to these cities?

Why couldn't they treat that like a pandemic, a pandemic of violence and crime that needs to be remedied?

Yeah, this whole the sad thing about the way the stimulus is being distributed, at least my worry is that it creates a greater gap in wealth, wealth disparity versus a lesser one.

So all the problems you're mentioning, it's only going to make them worse.

So people who are not well-off are going to become worse, but the opportunity for jobs is going to lessen the opportunities for people who are going to lose their businesses.

That means their dreams are broken, essentially. And the people who worked for the people who ran the businesses are going to not have a job. And all that creates a greater disparity within those communities, greater desperation and then desperation.

I've been reading The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich. Great book. I recommend it highly.

It talks about the 30s and the rise of Hitler in Germany and the pain, both economic and psychological turns into this like dark energy that can be combined with a charismatic leader to go into a direction of hatred versus love and progress.

And that's terrifying. I don't think we have a competent, charismatic leader that would do that in a positive or negative direction.

But I do hope a leader arises that. That uses that energy of pain that. Did something good in a positive way, and we need that, like I think.

I think people don't realize how much pain there is being experienced right now, like most people in real pain, don't have a podcast.

Don't have a voice. Yeah. And like, they don't have a job. And everyone is kind of in this holding position.

But the reality is, like once the economy opens up slowly and slowly, there's going to be that the the remnants of the pain experienced in this year is going to be there. Well, people have lost their savings. People have lost their dreams. That materializes itself, just like it did in Germany in in bitterness and hatred. And that can create revolutions that can create. Unstoppable destructive forces, especially when combined with an ideologue, that's terrifying to me.

People should definitely study. There's this kind of discussion of. Hitler recently, you know, that everyone says either Obama is Hitler or Trump is Hitler, it's kind of who said Obama's Hitler when Obama was president, that was really.

Yeah, because I want to fuck people. This is what people do. I mean, you know, using the military industrial complex to control the population, that kind of idea. And you know that.

The thing is, you have to separate Hitler, the evil person that created the Holocaust from the general evil, charismatic leader that took the country into use nationalism to take the country into a dark place in the 30s.

Those are two different stories. I don't think we're going to have ever something, hopefully any atrocity like the Holocaust.

But it's possible that the pain that people feel will be taken would be taken advantage of by a charismatic leader to.

To take us to take steps back, not not forward. That's a that's a real worry. That's I don't see that leader on the horizon, but the other problem is even a positive leader, the way politics work in America, everyone is so accustomed to people chopping people down, so much so that one of the things that that's weird about Kamala Harris being with Joe Biden is that, you know, she was she was talking like terrible things about him during the primaries.

I mean, when she was running against him in the primary, she said horrible things about him. And then when they brought it up on The Colbert show, she was like, it was a debate.

It was a debate like, is that what a debate is like? By any means necessary, you'll distort your own views of a person in order to diminish that person so that you can succeed and they fail. Or do you really mean that?

And that's why he said it in the debate. And you're willing to compromise whatever your ethics or your morals or whatever your perceptions of this person are, because you want to be vice president. It's one or the other. Either one's not good. And I think it speaks to the just the standard way that people debate and that people run for president in this country. It's about tearing the other people down. It's not about what you can do, what you want to do.

What's your vision? It's about how bad that other person is going to do with the job, how bad that other person has done at the job, who what a terrible person that would distort their character.

Yeah. So turning into a game, a rap battle, I mean, my worry is that we're going to get in 2024, 2028, Donald Trump Jr. versus like AOC.

So you basically take like the most entertaining Instagram accounts or whatever and the most divisive ones. Who's going to have the best means of tearing each other down?

It'll become a reality show.

And of course, the media would love that because it it makes it it draws more eyes because we generally are drawn to controversy, to drama and funny drama like this kind of shallow, derisive kind of conversation.

Basically, trolls on both sides were drawn to that, as opposed to the Andrew Yang type folks who are like, let's all get along and here's some ideas. And that's why he's so refreshing, right?

Yeah. And it also, you know, he's an entrepreneur. It's a different kind of human being that is running to the right. It's not a career politician. He's a guy who genuinely thinks he can help.

Yeah.

And young, young, there's something to that just that fresh and represent not compromise to not compromise by. That's that fucked up system. When you deal with someone like Joe Biden, who's a 50 year politician, like, my God, like you're so it's so entangled. You're so encrusted into that.

He probably doesn't even he hasn't he's almost unable to think original thoughts at this time because you've been in the system for so long, you can't, like, sit back.

You I must still think from first principles like, look, here's a new problem.

What are the ways we've been doing it previously? It hasn't worked. How can we do differently? Let's all cut the bullshit.

I know there is a bunch of like ties, lobbyists, money, interests. Let's put all that aside.

How do we like what are we supposed to do? We're supposed to we're supposed to represent the people. We're supposed to do something great for this country. How do we do that? And and fire again.

This is a destructive creative destruction, fire. Everybody who's has the entrenched old school assumptions that haven't worked, fire everybody and hire new energy. And, well, you have to revamp the system, too.

There's so much to do.

Well, this is the time to do it. I mean, and there's a hunger for that. And I think there's a hunger for a populace that wants to revamp the system.

Doesn't matter whether or not they're to actually be able to do it. I mean, there's so many checks and balances in place to sort of prevent that from happening because they're worried about someone doing it for the wrong reasons.

Well, that what if there's a positive view on our current president, Donald Trump is he showed that you don't have to follow the rules, right?

You don't have to follow the rules of the system. You can just fire everybody, the checks and balances. You ignore them. Yeah, I mean, that that should be inspiring to positive leaders, say, you know what, I don't even if I'm young, even if I'm an AOC type character or whatever on the right, even Donald Trump Jr.

Sorry, Donald Trump. He's also a J.

Well, he's junior, so he must be a J. OK, ok. Yeah. The way Junior works you have to have the say has to be perfect match. OK. I believe so in that.

Correct. Well yeah. So yeah that, that should be inspiring to young leaders to say you could, you can revamp the whole system. That was one of the. Criticisms of Barack Obama is that he talked about change and he hasn't really changed much. Yeah, and I think it's possible to change, I think, to something gross about James.

Yeah, just the name Jur, like, how can you be your own fucking person? The third. The fourth. Oh, God, Thurston Howell the third. Like the queen. Like the King Island.

Yeah, it's weird. Like, come on, Dad, can you come up with another fucking name? Unoriginal twice, you know. Well, give me a different name. Yeah, I got to walk around.

Junior Donald the fourth Lex Freedman Jr..

Yeah. This little Lex. Yeah. And have like multiples like that's the. Yeah. Like this.

Tommy has a Lex. It's a tradition and it's about George Foreman. You know, he names all those kids, George, George, all of them.

It's I think even his daughters.

Right. That can't be true. That cannot be true. It's true. And then you have on the opposite side Elon Musk, who who names.

Oh, yeah. It's fucking random letters of the alphabet.

Yeah. I named his kid after a jet and all kinds of other words. Not all.

He's named a few daughters. Other things, apparently.

Oh, George. Yeah, well, he's got a lot of kids. Right. There's also there's a George Jetta, you know.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That's that's a weird move.

Mousepad Pat had something on her Instagram about NFL players yesterday about like seven NFL players have fathered fifty two children from forty eight.

There is one guy with like twenty six kids a couple of years ago or something like that. So crazy.

Teach the man about condoms. Good Lord, sir.

Yeah. There's no way you're taking care of this. When I was fourteen, someone has fourteen kids. It's three hundred and fifty grand or so.

I'm one year to support eight of them. He has to pay only eight of them. One man. What about the other. One day they all got different deals I guess.

Oh boy. It's too easy to make people.

You know, the problem is it's pleasurable and it's we're all like super drawn to it because it's part of our DNA to be sexually attracted to whoever. And that's how you make people. It's crazy.

It's like like hunger making people you know, it's because people used to die so easily because we don't run fast.

And, you know, we're basically like water balloons and died birth like close to at a young age, often because just medicine advanced so much that we're able to save kids. Sure. Nutrition, infections, all that kind of stuff. Yeah.

I don't I can't I haven't looked into this carefully, but there's this seems to be a lot of debate about whether to worry about overpopulation or not. Like I've posted these like projections of the population. One, we're going to reach ten trillion. People, billion people, and there's a lot of debate over whether that is like we should be worried about or not. On the one side, the natural carrying capacity of Earth, people say that we have way more resources than we need is not to worry about.

It's nothing to worry, but it's about how those resources are allocated.

Right. So some places are very resource poor, but they have high populations. And that's that's a gigantic problem.

And most of the population growth in the 21st century will be in Africa. Look at the models in Africa will have, I believe, more people than the rest of the world by the end of the century.

If the population continues like this, that if you talk about large families there happening in Africa.

The thing about Africa, though, is it actually can fit most of the stories in it when you realize how big Africa is. I had no idea until we started doing this podcast and Jamie pulled up this image of like Europe and Asia and the United States and all these other countries stuffed into the continent of Africa. It's only then you realize how big Africa actually is.

So it kind of makes sense, yeah, space wise, but yeah, but also resource wise there. I mean, there's a lot of people suffering in Africa as something that would keep a blind eye, too.

But there's real suffering poverty.

It's interesting that some animals have mating seasons. You know, like deer have mating seasons.

They go into the rut in the fall and then the the dough's are in estrous and they give out the scent. The bugs go crazy and they're chasing them all around, but they only do it once a year. And in the spring, they give birth to the the new fauns. And this is like it's really common in the wild for animals to have a season. The chimps do.

No, no, no. No wonder people know. I wonder if there's ups and downs like so so humans have like a mating season around like Christmas, the holidays, and then it goes down in the in the January month.

I think it's only game animals, meaning animals that are prey. And I think predators just go Buckwild. I think predators breed whatever the fuck they want to. You know, I don't know if that's true, though, I mean, I don't know like if like lions and tigers, for instance, I know I had a bit that I used to do about tigers because I watched the Discovery Channel show, which is when the female tiger is in season, the male can mate with her as many times as 52 in a day.

Wow. Yeah. So they just get after it. But I don't know how long that lasts, like when they're in heat.

Jamie, could you look up to the mating season for lions, please?

Yes, please. Here goes in captivity. Lions often breed every year, but in the wild they usually breed no more than once in two years. Females are receptive to mating for three or four days within a widely variable reproductive cycle. During this time, a pair generally mates every 20 to 30 minutes with up to 50 copulations for 24 hours.

Wow, that sounds weirdly like my life, actually, once in two years.

It's good. Well, maybe you're a predator, sir. Yeah, but it's interesting. The wildly reproductive cycles, it's like it's not predictable, like like like a prey animal, you know.

But I would also think that nature probably over the course of millions of years balances that out with overpopulation, which they realize like, hey, if there's too many lions, like what eats lions, very few things eat lions. Occasionally a hyena will get one with a broken leg and they'll take it out. But the reality is mostly it's lions doing the eating, so you can't have too many of them.

Yeah, but like deer and things like that. Well, fuck man, they they make babies and then they can literally overwhelm a resource area if there's no predators.

So you have to have predators. So there's like some sort of a balance like nature sort of figured out the best way to keep the animals healthy is to only have them breed once a year.

Yeah, it's amazing how evolution finds a balance.

I think you mean God, but that's OK. I'll let you get away with that God and Jesus. You know, we're in Texas, bro. Yes.

Guns, God in America. Yeah, I see. Scotch.

It is amazing. I mean, natural selection and just evolution in general is is so fascinating.

You know, what's amazing is I talked to Sara Seager. There's this whole group of people that look for life. I don't know if you know what exoplanets are like. They look for life out there.

You know, some people think that there's Jupiter, moon of Jupiter. Europa has as I mean, it's fascinating to think that there's life currently or at least recently on Mars, you know, and it's fascinating to think what the evolutionary process on those planets has resulted in. Yeah, because. And when we show up.

I talked to somebody I forget who I think a biologist at the college faculty of MIT. He mentioned that because my worry would be if we encounter a life on another planet.

If they would, it would be destructive to us humans like or we to them one or the other like, because entire I mean, they can, you know, with this virus we're experiencing now my natural thought.

I don't know what I'm talking about with biology, but my natural thought would be like when you touched that life, it might basically be a parasite to take advantage of you somehow.

Sure.

But he said that likely it would be there's a certain kind of distance that happens if they're if it's far enough away in terms of the kind of energy it uses, the the kind of environment it's adapted to, that it basically won't even notice humans. You won't know how to take advantage of the resources.

We provide arms like that.

That's a hopeful message that basically could study it safely. But isn't that just purely speculative?

Because if it's in the Goldilocks zone and you have something that is also carbon based biological life, that is a similar temperature range that it exists in, it easily could eat it, you know.

Yeah, from from inside, like Dorham in Avatar, that that planet that I've always felt like that movie was so interesting because it's close, right.

It's close. Whatever it is is like not earth, but it's close. And the things that live there are not they're not human, but they're close. Like you could kind of see that it's good enough.

It's close enough like the animals and all the weird creatures in the jungle and the Avatar movie.

But thing is, most likely life would be not close right now that most likely it would be. That's the way I told you about David Favor.

Yeah, I've talked to recently, by the way, thank you for I renamed my podcast.

Just my name Yuk's Friedman. What. I heard you tell that to Joey. Joey Diaz. Yeah. Sadly, people should go listen to Joey's last. He did. He recorded the last church of what's happening now. So yeah. So you suggested to him that he should do some new thing totally and just name it after himself.

And I was like, why the fuck am I have some silly name like artificial intelligence?

Just just name it like the Joe Rogan experience, just named like Freeman Pocket. You know, I talked to David for four hours.

Yeah, what I bring that up because David Frevert, you were talking, let's explain who David Faber was. Yeah, he's a fighter jet pilot for the Navy and he discovered a UFO off the coast of San Diego that when they tracked it went from 60000 feet to one feet in a second or less. They don't know how fast it went because it's, you know, the blip of radar. But the thing traveled in an insane way that defies all of our understanding of propulsion, all of our understanding of physics.

And this thing also actively was blocking their tracking systems, which is an act of war. If, you know, with the Soviet Union or China is doing that, that's technically an act of war. So this thing was doing something that showed that it was intelligently aware of the fact that they are using tracking devices to try to lock in on it. And it behaved and moved in a way that defies all of our understandings of propulsion systems that didn't give off any heat signature.

And the people from the Navy that he was communicating with saying, yeah, we see these every now and again.

We don't know what the fuck they are. So the the thing I was going to say is a lot of interesting things to say about this. But so just I just remembered that it felt like from that entire experience that because it didn't have a Chinese or Russian flag on it, whatever he saw is we tend to just the entire system is doesn't want to acknowledge it.

Like, you just you don't know what to do with it.

So they actually most of like when you return back to the ship and there's a bunch of pilots that put, you know, that saw it does a lot of people that witnessed it. And there's also the video.

You know, the majority of the people didn't know what to do with it. They just went on with their day like nothing happened. You know, they kind of made fun of each other or whatever for, you know.

Yeah, yeah, sure, bro.

You saw aliens, but like, they didn't they didn't know how to comprehend it. That's what I meant. Like, if we encounter life from elsewhere in the universe.

We think we would be, as a population excited, but it feels like just like with Bigfoot, we want we're excited by the mystery when they're like when they're just out of reach, but when they're like among us, that there's so many mysteries and incredible things among us that we just kind of take them for granted.

We don't even or ignore them. Actually, even worse, we ignore them. We get used to things.

And that was the weird thing, the biggest mystery to me about what David Faber saw a lot.

And then also with the other videos in 2014, something like that, to go fast is like it wasn't a bigger deal than I thought it would be.

Well, the big deal was when the Pentagon came out and said that they have recovered. Some vehicles that are not of this world now, they didn't expand on that, there hasn't been more conversation about that. But my this is a purely speculation. My speculation is they are slowly spoon feeding us information to allow people to be more comfortable with the inevitable arrival of something. They believe that something is coming. They don't want it to happen all at once.

You see what happens just with the pandemic. You see what happens with George Floyd and see what happens with anyone, any. There's a big shock to our system and there's chaos in the streets.

It's unmanageable. And if the UFO came in the middle of something like that, like Jesus Christ, like who the fuck knows what would go down if I was someone who was in a position of power?

I would say, listen, this information's going to get out. It's inevitable. So why don't we let people know now? Just give them just in words, say we have recovered crafts that are not of this world. Say something crazy like that printed in The New York Times, get it out there and then slowly drip out more information. When they see these videos, they'll get more and more accustomed to it. And then eventually to be like masks, like you walk down the street, everybody has a mask on.

You don't even think about it yet.

But OK, so let me be. No, I'm saying I told you and this is such a fascinating question. If the government is in possession of an alien spacecraft, what is the right way to release that information?

The problem is if if it's more potent than any weapon that any any civilization has currently on this planet. So if the United States is in control of this vehicle that is more potent and can do things that like if you really do have something, they can go from 60000 feet to one foot in under a second. That I mean, that's that defies all of our understandings of speed. Right? I mean, that's so fast. If you could do that.

Well, there's arguments against because it could be human created technology, too. That's just 15, 20, 30 years out, like the stealth bomber was developed secretly.

So what defies it's our perception of its movement capabilities rectifies. But there could be some tricks on perception that I mean, that's the whole point of the stealth bomber, is it's difficult to detect. Sure.

And so there could be the same kind of tricks on perception that you could just be playing different kinds of amazing secret human created technology that is able to deceive the human eye.

That's a good point. I mean, but the thing about it is they tracked it. It wasn't just that. It was the human eye that saw this. And it's deceptive, but also like stealth bomber, you know, the way it's designed, it blocks radar or a radar doesn't catch onto it.

I think it is possible that some human created technology that's so far advanced from anything that we're currently that we currently understand, like in terms of like mainstream propulsion experts and fighter pilots like David Praver and military people, it is possible that some civilization.

One of the one of the. Big civilizations on this planet, whether it's China or Russia, has come up with something that's above and beyond what everybody knows, but it's not likely, it's not likely that they've made that much of a leap.

And your sense on the other side, if it's alien technology, say I'm more optimistic to me as a scientist and engineer.

And actually, David Ferris's says this, too, in this time of pandemic, in this time of like just just hard negative news everywhere, there will be nothing more inspiring than the government inspiring, like Neil deGrasse Tyson way coming out and saying we're not releasing the videos like they did, which is I don't know if you know, but they just put videos on a website like there's not there's nothing. It's just videos. It's just like I would like some boring documents described like nothing.

They're not inspiring. We're not talking about like Neil deGrasse Tyson or like Carl Sagan, Cosmos style, like a beautiful, inspiring what is more inspiring than an alien spacecraft.

Look, here's a there's a fascinating mystery here. There's nothing more inspiring to us humans than that.

There is life out there, intelligent life out there. But how would you handle it?

Like, let's imagine let's imagine you are the leader of the United States and you find out or, you know, whatever the head of the Navy military intelligence program, whatever, whoever you are, you're a person that's in a position where you realize that this thing is from another world and you have this responsibility to try to somehow or another publicize this. Yeah, I doubt I would.

I would I would I would approach it 100 percent from the perspective of science. Here's a mystery.

So forget weapon.

Like you mentioned, there's this inclination to think like how can I figure out a way to use this as a weapon to destroy Russia or China as opposed to seeing it like. Like going to Mars, colonizing Mars or going to the moon originally, there is some competitive element, but mostly it's a human pursuit of understanding and human pursuit of overcoming.

Our limited knowledge to sort of unlock mysteries of this universe from a physics perspective, from an engineering perspective, I would release all the information I have. And release it in a way that gets the other guys, Tyson folks in the loop, so it's almost like an inspiring effort for us as a humanity to understand what the hell this thing is versus let's keep it secret and see if we can use it as a weapon.

Well, I appreciate that you think that way because you're a scientist and you're thinking about it in a very positive way to try to expand our education and our understanding of this thing. And maybe we could, you know, use it for good.

But you got to realize that anything that surpasses any and all technologies that we currently enjoy in terms of fighter pilots and jets and military superiority, if there's something that just goes above and beyond, if everybody has a Model T and you have a Ferrari, or better yet, you have a Tesla, you have a Model S and everybody's got a model T, you are this is and you're in a race or you have something that is so far above and beyond what everybody else has.

It's not really a fair race. It's a joke.

You'll dominate if that if you were in a you have a model T and the other person has a Tesla and you're racing and the winner gets to decide who has all the food, who gets all the women who lives in the nice house like you're going to win every fucking time. Right now, if you have a UFO, if you have a spaceship that comes from another planet where there are a million years more advanced than us, they've had a million years of evolution and technological evolution dealing with elements that are common on their planet that have to be created in a particle collider here.

And they only exist for a brief amount of time if they have something like that that's powered by something that we can't even imagine. And you figure out how to use that here on Earth, you'll have technical superiority, technological superiority over every other civilization, every other country in that technological superior.

It's so fast. Chimps are like still talking about our village.

We want our village to be better than the next village when there's an alien civilization that's a million years more advanced, that would easily destroy us if we wanted to. Right.

Or actually understands the nature of existence in this universe and levels that it like we chimps talk about, like meditation and finding inner peace and understands and such a deeper level, like the nature of consciousness, the nature of intelligence, the meaning of life, all the weird stuff that we're so obsessed with and understands at another level.

And here we are thinking about what the Russians are doing versus like understanding that mystery. I think in the face of that mystery, something that's far more intelligent than us, I think we can't it's a ridiculous notion to think we're anything but one human village. And in terms of weapons, because you said they get all the girls or whatever, I think the weapons things, the key thing, and we're we are ready.

At least the major nations have all the weapons we need to destroy each other. We don't need extra weapons. I. Well, I mean, it feels like.

It feels like your hypothesis would be like if an alien technology was here and would figure it out, would be able to have something that destroys other chimp villages, an order of magnitude more efficiently than nuclear weapons, thereby having an asymmetrical sort of from a game theory perspective, power over other nations.

And we can tell China what to do. We can tell Russia what to do. That's that's the perspective from which they're thinking.

I just. I'm not even saying that they're thinking that way. I'm thinking a human would think that if they had control of this vehicle, I'm not saying that the aliens would think this way. I'm thinking also that we are constantly innovating when when you when you talk to people that are designing jets and planes and fighter pilots and they really are talking about new systems that they've created and new, you know, new new weapons, they don't just sit back and say we have enough weapons to destroy Russia and China and the rest of the world combined.

So we're just going to stop that. This is not how human beings innovate. Human beings are in this constant state of wanting the newest, greatest innovations. We want to improve upon every single existing invention until we hit some sort of singularity point or whatever the fuck we're striving for as a culture and. That would be that propulsion system, if you do really have something go from 60000 feet to one feet in less than a second, you're dealing with something that we don't understand.

We can't do that right now. And if we could figure out how to do that and propel people that quickly, it would be a game changer. Now, how much of a game changer? What does that mean? Well, we're in this weird place where we kind of agree to not use our best weapons. Right. Like when there's a there's a face off between the United States jets and a Russian jet and they come close to each other, like over China or something like that.

It's weird because we're not shooting at each other, but we're real close. And even the missiles that we have, they're not nuclear like we're but we're involved in in a skirmish with another country.

But it we don't use all our weapons.

Like if we approached war the way people approached war in, you know, the the Middle Ages, we would just nuke the fuck out of everybody that talks shit. Right.

Anybody anybody would just say, well, they're just fucking launched missiles.

Fuck those beat instead of Twitter by nukes. Yeah, exactly. So we're already in this place where we don't use our best stuff. We're already. So if we had something that made us fly better and fly faster, the real question is, yeah. How much would that change the world? I don't know. I don't know how much it would if we got in control of some UFO and we're able to get to China quicker with how much of a difference would that make in terms of, like, the way they responded to our military?

We're in this position now where there's multiple countries that have the ability to destroy other countries. There's Iran has some sort of a nuclear program. Pakistan has a nuclear program. India has nuclear program. You know, of course, the United States, Russia, China, there's many countries that have the ability to fuck and wipe out huge numbers of the population like that. Just launch just one crazy, psychotic leader who just decides to just listen. We're going to fucking make our mark here.

Everybody together on one, two, three, go, boom.

Let's do this. I mean, that's such a difficult he talked to Snowden is such a difficult ethical question. Like, if I actually had that information, I tend to lean a little bit on the side of it's the duty of every American to leak that information, to take it and make it public. But. I understand that it takes a huge risk of destroying the world because evil people can get their hands on that information, that's the that's the bizarre question, right?

It wasn't that Oppenheimer's dilemma. I mean, when Opon Oppenheimer, who's a, you know, a very peaceful man, created the most destructive or helped create the most destructive invention the world's ever known. It's a conundrum, right? But doing so, did he prevent a lot of other death because Germany would have gotten it or Japan would have gotten it and they would have used it on Europe, they would have used it in the United States, is that possible?

That's the argument, right, that there's a race going on. The people understand that splitting the atom and it is possible that nuclear weapons are feasible and whoever gets them first is going to have a massive advantage. We got them first and therefore, you know, we became the preeminent superpower. But what if we did? What if Oppenheimer was a dummy? You know, what if there was a bunch of knuckleheads working for the United States and the Russians and the Germans and the Japanese were all working together and they came up with something far better.

Obviously, the Russians were against the the Germans in that war. But you fit together any superpowers at the time. If they got together with their scientists and they figured out a nuclear bomb first just dropped it on San Francisco. Well, how much would the world be different now?

Yeah, I mean, in Russia, I mean, Stalin is a complicated figure. So he is on the side of the United States at the time.

But evil as fuck, but evil, evil. And if he had nuclear weapons, it's a whole nother discussion. Yes.

And it's actually quite surprising to me that we got out of the 20th century alive. Yeah.

From a perspective of Oppenheimer, you know, I think he probably wondered if we're going to destroy ourselves within the next decade, no matter what happens when you have when you have weapons that can destroy all of civilization, especially now with hydrogen bombs.

Mm hmm. It's. It's complicated to talk about anything like alien technology. Yeah, well, I think that's probably I mean, if I was an alien. And I was paying attention to Earth. That's probably why I would visit and be like these chimps are in this weird stage of evolution where they're still chimps, they're still behaving like territorial apes, but now they have nuclear technology. They have this very crude version of the literally the power of the sun.

Well, that's OK. So here's another hypothesis.

They saw these destructive weapons and so they actually in Roswell or whatever it is, planted a piece of technology that we should figure out.

There'll be an infinitely powerful generator of love versus destruction.

So they're like, OK, these chimps are not going down the wrong path. Let us plant some stuff where they figure out, like how to be enlightened mushrooms, mushrooms.

So that's what they did.

I mean, we tried that because they kind of were you know, from their perspective, the chimps are like a nice video game, like they're like a Chia pet where you watch them grow.

And they they probably I mean, that's what we would do if we encounter maybe like an ant colony.

And we saw that the ant colonies destroying itself, you know, us from a scientific perspective, would want them to not become extinct. So probably interfere in some way to try to prevent the ant colony from destroying itself. That's so that, you know, as a curiosity, as a cosmic, it feels like Earth is a cosmic curiosity from the perspective of an intelligent alien species.

Like that's a really interesting what's going on there. Let's let's see what's happening.

A friend of mine told me the story that he saw two mounds of fire ants and that he did this experiment where he took a bucket and he scooped up ants from one fire ant colony and scooped up ants from the other and then dumped them on the opposite colonies and watched them fight to the death.

And I was like, fuck, really?

He goes, Yeah, they instantaneously knew that those ants were from the wrong colony and they just went to war.

And there's a I don't know if you there's a few good books on ants they have like a collective intelligence. Yeah. Because we tend to think of the individual ants, but somehow as an organism to get together in the thousands of ants, millions of ants, there's somehow a collective emergence that a collective intelligence that emerges like there's this whole field of computer science, ant colony optimisation, like if we just simulate nature inspired optimization algorithms, they somehow figure out how to do stuff in a in an emergent way.

Don't really understand it. We don't have mathematics to deal with.

Like when you have a bunch of when you have a bunch of distributed organisms doing doing dumb stuff.

Just looking at their neighbors, when you look at the system as a whole, intelligence stuff emerges.

Hmm, that's that. There's I don't know, do you know who Stephen Wolfram is, no maintenance. Well, you know who Eric Weinstein is. Yeah.

So they're Eric Weinstein is out of the million intelligent thing he does.

He's also a mathematical physicist. So he has like a theory of everything that you've talked to him about or he blew your mind with geometric unity. There's another guy, really brilliant guy, Stephen Wolfram. He's a physicist. He created Wolfram Alpha that like everybody uses in high school for to do their homework in calculus because it's you can ask it a bunch of questions like how much does Joe Rogan weigh or something like that.

He has this. I don't know. I don't know if he can I don't know if he knows about Joe Rogan. But it might be interesting.

I see he has like his huge knowledge base.

Yeah, maybe he doesn't know. Individual people. Was. Was just I was like, oh, but it's able to integrate it really well. So, like, it can do math on this information. That's the really important thing they can do.

Like, you know, can calculate the, you know, the average population of Austin, because as the information of number of people, the number, the area or whatever, it's a really useful tool.

But he also came out with this Wolfram Physics project recently where he describes it's another theory of everything. Do you know what the theory of everything is? It's a it's sort of it's a unification of all the different laws of physics, so that with one theory, you can describe everything that's happening around us. And the reason I bring that up, because you're talking about ants, Stephen Wolfram's idea, he has this like of like he has this model of the universe.

That's this what's called the hypergraphia, is this really simple system that grows with a single rule like it expands. It starts from just a couple of points that are connected with a line and then it grows with a single simple rule, just like ants interact really simply this system grows.

And his theory is that it can grow and to create our entire universe like from it, it doesn't have a concept of space or time like we perceive it, the four dimensional, the three dimensional space in the fourth dimension of time. But all of that emerges within the system. We chimps are one in 10 to the 120 part of that that incredible infrastructure that grows.

And he like mathematically describes the way this thing grows. That's we don't currently have good mathematics for modeling the way such systems grow.

There's something called cellular automata where it's really called game of life. Unfortunately, John Conway that created the game of life from a day recently from covid, it describes as a very simple system where from simple rules you can have incredible complexity. And it's a really cool idea that our universe started from like.

Basically like one ant and then or actually two ants, and then their interaction creates a system that's so incredibly complex, even though the underlying rules are simple, that's we don't understand why the hell that happens.

We humans from the scientific perspective, we know how to describe like a single system, the way an object moves.

We don't have a math or even a science of describing how trillions of objects move when they interact simply with each other.

We don't know how to do that.

But that's what seems to happen when you look at we know how to you know, psychology can describe the behavior of a single human. Well, we don't have a science of is to describe what happens when a billion humans interact. Hmm. I don't know if that kind of makes sense, but like the it's called the complexity study of complexity. What is this, Jamie?

This is sort of this is a hypergraphia. He started a explanations of all this sort of stuff.

So if you so if you look at any of those, if you zoom in on any of those graphs, I mean, when the previous page was the previous one was really good. So if you zoom into any of those below, you see all these beautiful little graph things below it. There is like two boxes. And that describes a rule of if you see a pattern left, expanded to the pattern on the right and the entirety.

So his hypothesis is one of these rules created the universe where this little rule of if you see a pat on the left, create a pat on the right, it creates these incredibly rich graphs from which emerged this the he's modeling all of quantum mechanics of general relativity.

So theory of everything is unify the physics of the big, which is general relativity, special relativity, and then the physics of the really small, which is quantum mechanics. And he within those grass is able to find the emergence of these theories.

First, the emergence of space and time, then the I mean, everything you need to describe for quantum field theory, all that kind of stuff. It's trippy.

Go back to those images. That was a bunch of really cool ones. Hmm. Is that him right there? No. Who's that guy? The teacher, just a guy. Those those images that you showed in that graph, like, you know, that reminds me of the remember the movie Arrival?

Yeah, he was a wolf, OK? He was the designer of the language.

Well, that makes sense. So he was tasked. Such a cool task as a physicist. Oh, my God.

It's like can you design a method by which the aliens might be communicating with us?

I mean, that looks like it and or similar to. But there is a math behind it. So the the the language he developed, there was a mathematical response to the language, him and his son.

You know, when when you get this far down the intellectual rabbit hole, when you go, I mean, how many people actually understand this to the point where they can they could read it, describe it accurately.

This is that's that's the problem with the theory of everything, is very few physicists really understand like the details involved we're talking have to be it's the same as the order of magnitude of professional comedians.

I would say it's like thousands, maybe maybe less than on the whole planet, on the whole planet.

But the cool thing about the Wolfram thing is set physics aside. It's just the the part that a lot of people can understand.

And I highly recommend, like curious undergrads. And really, you don't need to know how to program.

They understand how those beautiful things and the language in the movie Arrival can grow from simple rules.

You can play with it like it's it's one of the most beautiful in terms of maybe take some mushrooms.

And like, if you want to see a beautiful concept is have a system that's really simple, like a few dots, like a tic tac toe board and have rules that apply to that board that are really simple. One simple rule and like the beautiful patterns that emerge.

Give me an example of a rule like that.

So the rule for the game of life is for like something like a tic tac toe board is a cell that's white, is dead. So that's black is alive, let's say. And when three of the cells neighbors are also alive, then you live on. Otherwise you die, meaning you flip. You know, OK, so when you have three neighbors, I might be getting the exact rule wrong for the game of life, but when you win, you only each cell only looks at its neighbors.

And when a certain number of neighbors is alive, I think it's three. Then you continue being black, you continue being alive, otherwise you die.

It's a live die and you're just a single cell sitting there and you live and die based on your neighbors. OK. I mean, it's very simple. You think what can be created from that and you can create everything in the known universe from that. So like people have created computers from that, from a Turing machine, like the patterns that emerge, you can create all these kinds of fractals.

You think like it would create some kind of repeatable regular pattern or something like that would be something dumb.

But he can create these like like a one. One really important thing is the cell just knows about itself. It doesn't move.

It just knows about itself. But when you zoom out and you look at the result from the system, it looks like there's objects running around, like the individual cells aren't running around, but it looks like the objects are running around. You can have messengers, you can have what are called spaceship's, which are these mechanisms that use the cells and and move around.

Like if you have any gifts or videos of it, like there's stuff that moves and it seems like it's intelligent objects that communicate with each other. And all of that emerges. And you can say if you just think about it a little bit, like you have to remind yourself that see like this animation right there, it looks like there's a moving object like it looks.

So I think these are called glider guns or something like that, where they shoot off objects of different kinds and like you think, but the individual soul knows nothing about anything except itself and its nearest neighbors.

And as a result, you can nevertheless have arbitrary complexity, objects of arbitrary size that move around a live and die like that.

Like I said, do any kind of competition in the world.

It makes you realize that it's possible that this universe is just some simple, dumb rules on a scale of 10 to the 120, like an ant colony, just that just scaled up like an insanely to an arbitrary degree. And then we're just there was we're like this clueless apes.

They're just the result of that.

We're not able to perceive at all the that, you know, much, much smaller level the simplicity that's happening to us. All of this seems.

Like it all does, it seems complicated to us, like this table seems like it's would you know, we don't perceive the atoms, we don't perceive the quantum mechanics.

We don't perceive whether string theory or something like Wolfram is saying, like these objects that are interacting at a microscopic far smaller than the microscopic level.

But it might be that they're really simple rules. They just create all of this. It seems complicated to us.

But the it's something that's I think is nice to appreciate for people from all walks of life. How much complexity be created from simplicity, from simple rules, how much richness, beauty just can be created from simple rules.

Isn't it also really interesting that everything tends to move towards greater and greater complexity?

Well, so this is, I think, really important and it's surprising in general. The second author, Thermodynamics, says that everything becomes more chaotic. So it's not complex.

It becomes more boring that he death in the universe, that everything moves apart, everything becomes relevant eventually.

But the thing is that there's pockets of complexity and that these pockets keep getting created of some interesting stuff that's a little like chimps, like interesting stuff keeps getting created.

It's not obvious that that should be the case, but just life in general. I think if you go from single celled organisms, you go from bacteria to what we know now as human beings. Just think of all the different steps that had to take place and it moves towards greater and greater complexity, greater and greater ability to manipulate their environment, greater and greater ability to understand tools and 3D space and how to manipulate things.

One of the things that I've always been fascinated about with the concept of aliens is what if what if the general direction that we're leaning in as a society, like if you think about human beings today, we're we're so much more civilised than human beings were 5000 years ago. We're a different thing. You know, we're we're less murderous. We're less less inclined to be physical. We have much more access to inventions, much more access to technology. Technology was nonexistent back then.

We have electricity, we have computers, we have all these different things.

But it's moving in this direction more rapidly now than ever before in terms of the innovation of objects and ideas. If you go back to a computer like I remember I got a flat screen computer for the first time.

I don't remember when it was, but I remember I looked at one in 1995, I think it was, and it was like twenty thousand dollars in 1995. And it was basically the size of that panel and it was like a flat. I forget what the technology was. The time wasn't LCD.

I remember plasma, that's what it was, it was a plasma television and it looked like dark shit, but it was thin, fairly thin.

But today it looked like a brick, like a crude mud brick that someone made the jungle and looked like terrible.

And I was like, that's ridiculous. I'm not spending that much money on that fucking thing. That's crazy. So I got a regular TV, but now you can get a TV like that for nothing like get a TV that size. That's far better. Like an LCD screen. Beautiful for K like 100 bucks or something like that. It's amazing how much the technology has changed and how much better it's gotten.

One, two years. Yes, that's a blink of an eye in terms of the history of the world. Right. And then you stop and think about iPhone one. iPhone one was 10 years ago, 13 now 2007. And it looks terrible. You have to pick one up. I still have one. I found one when I was moving out here.

I found an old phone in my home, like, look at this shit. It's crazy. It's small, it's clunky. The screen looks terrible. The camera's dog shit, it's just everything about it. Slow, awkward. Now you go to what I have now. I've iPhone 11 and it's 11 years or thirteen years later.

It's infinitely better. It's so much better. The camera, the zoom capability. And then there's this giant technological race for Samsung's coming out with a new note. Twenty ultra with fucking one hundred Xoom where all these different things that are happening, it's we're in this weird technology race.

If you looked at us from afar and you said, well, what does this organism do? What does this human organism do? Well, it does a lot of things. It creates culture. It has, you know, different rules and religions. And it's OK. OK, OK. But what does it do?

What's the end result? Bees make honey. What do people do? They make technology. And one of the things that we do in terms of like keeping up with the Joneses, materialism, all these different weird traits that human beings have, what they lend themselves to is technological innovation. Because of your materialist, you want the newest, latest, greatest thing. Like what year is that car? Twenty. Eighteen. Oh, you haven't seen the two thousand twenty one so much better.

Like donating cars. Fucking fine and it'll get you around. But if you want to impress people you got to have the two thousand twenty one. Well one of the things that's weird about people is how materialistic we are so materialistic.

There's so many Instagram pages that are just filled with people with nice houses and let me clear my shit, look at all my watches. Look on my this, my that. I mean, this is the thing that drives it drives consumers.

It drives commerce and commerce drives innovation. Innovation drives technology technologies. What we create, we just do it in a weird way. We do it through sex. We do it through social status. We do it through the need for respect, for envy, all these different things.

But all of that really does do is drive technology. And that's ultimately the end of the line.

And if you look at the big history, one of the quotes that Elon tweeted is from Andre Carpati, the head of Tesla autopilot shout out to Andre, one of the great machine learning engineers of our time.

But his quote was, If you bombard Earth with photons long enough, eventually will Tesla.

So like you basically, if you look from the very origins, it's like you just the sun just needed to provide some energy to this thing, like a little bit. And eventually they'll start creating Teslas and then emit them into space. It'll start to have like rockets.

I mean, it's. Well, it's true. Yeah, it's true. And it has happened so. And but it's accelerating.

Yeah. This is why I mean, again, the Elon sort of exponential growth idea.

I mean, it just seems to be getting faster and faster and faster and which is us humans aren't able to reason that way, like most of the technology we see around us is about a hundred years worth 150 electricity, radio, TV or most of the medical innovations from antibiotics to to I mean, just everything to surgery to all the kinds to most of the innovations in biology and chemistry, modern physics, even so, obviously computers and all of them as old as 100 years, 150 years maybe.

And it's accelerating. And so our ability to think. Like what is possible the next 10, 20 years is is flawed. I mean, that's one like we talked about NewLink. That's why there's a lot of people kind of.

You know, unable to reason like where how quickly people in the scientific community are aware of how little or how limited our understanding of the human brain is on the neurobiological level, just neuroscience, just the basic functional at the functional level, like how the brain functions.

And so they think like, well, many of the possibilities that are especially exciting with a technology like brain computer interfaces like neural link is must be 120, 100, 200, 300 years away.

But the way things are accelerating is very possible that it's 50 years away, 30 years away, like the the ability to to digitize memories, you know, to be able to replay memories, to digitize, like Ray Kurzweil dreams about digitize the minds of humans.

So immortality, you know, like I mentioned, Sara Seager, people should check out her new book.

It's a memoir, but she searches for exoplanets, planets. She was one of the key people in discovering new exoplanets. And Proxima Centauri is the closest that we think of earth like planet or at least habitable planet out there. And that seems to be too far away unless you're able to digitize humans. So, as she said, the easiest way to travel to that to that planet to see if there's extraterrestrial life out there is to digitize a human and send them on a ship because you can then travel much, much faster than we could otherwise.

It's and you can have multigenerational, obviously, travel because a digital form of of of the human mind of consciousness, intelligence, all that kind of stuff, you know, it could travel for.

For millennia, right? And so that's that's an exciting possibility, and most people would say that, you know, we don't really understand much about the mind and in order to understand enough about the mind, to be able to digitally convert it, to digitally store it and be able to ship it to Proxima Centauri would be centuries. One of the exciting things about NewLink to me in the long term is that they're really pushing instead of making it centuries, making it decades, just like.

The bringing together the best engineers and scientists in the world and saying this is this there's this there's this is ripe with innovation, there's a possibility here to do something truly special, not only to understand the not only to help people with neurological disorders, which is a huge obviously goal mission. A dream to. Alleviate suffering. Right, that's a that's as good of a mission for a group of scientists as any, but also that we can understand the mind, we can expand different capacities of the mind, like expand intelligence, expand consciousness, expand all the different kinds of capabilities of the mind and be able to digitally store that mind.

So understand it to a degree to where we can copy it to a can store it to we can transmit it out to distant stars and to meet our alien friends in digital form. That, you know, that's a mind blowing mission for for us chimps. Yeah, that's what I wonder when when I think about alien life and the Tic-Tac UFO, the David Faber song. Yeah, I like the idea that that would be biological, that there would be some sort of biological life inside of it.

Seems a little retro.

Right. So everything about that seems retro about our interpretation of it. Like one thing is David's general inclination is I think he said on your podcast with him, it's like he wants to fly, that his first thought was like, I want to fly that thing.

That's like finding an animal on another planet. I want to fuck. Yeah.

Is that a dream? Oh, fuck that space giraffe.

Like, my question to him was like, why did you think that's something you could fly? You know, like that to me seems preposterous that.

It could be a thing that could be flied to it's preposterous to me that there's an extra alien on board. It could be just the reconnaissance.

I mean, what could be what what life becomes?

One of the things that I've been thinking about when it comes to neural link and all sorts of medical innovations in terms of artificial limbs and different prosthetics that people are able to concoct today. How close are we to those being better than the biological alternatives? Right. Like, how close are we to that? Like, if you lose your arm, they actually give you a six million arm in arm. That's better. Remember that movie, the TV show, Steve Austin, a man barely alive?

Remember that you're not old enough.

And when I was in the Soviet Union, so we didn't have any of those problems.

There was a movie, was a TV show was about it was an awesome TV show for me when I was a kid, about a guy who was I think he was a fighter pilot and he was in a crash and they rebuilt him with artificial parts. But the artificial parts, he had like legs. He could run 60 miles an hour. He had a hand. He could fucking just crush you with his hand. You know, it was wild stuff, man.

It was fun, but it was just science fiction television. But if they do get to a point where they have legs that work better than your legs and they feel like your legs, like I have friends that have fake hips, I have friends that have resurfaced hips and resurface knees or they've they've, you know, terrible arthritis or cartilage damage and they've just replaced the part and now they work. Now it works great. They can they can do things like my friend was bad hip.

He runs with a bat with this fake hip John Wayne pas, the moiety kickboxer. He he's thrown kicks now with his fake hip.

He just got his leg was fixed two months ago I think, and is on his Instagram. He's got him throwing high kicks with this resurface the left leg. It's crazy. When, when is it going to come to a point in time where they can replace your eyes with better versions of what you have now and they work better like it's not I know you're scared, but it's no big deal. It's like glasses, but it's way better. We're going to put these things in where your eyes used to be.

The magnetic women love them. If you don't have them, you're going to look at the loser biological eyes.

What if these things that we're seeing are the ultimate? Symbiotic interaction of biology or the initial biology and technology would have neural link is just one step into us essentially giving up our biological heritage and becoming a part of of the future. This idea of artificial life is a weird word, right? Because it's not artificial. It's right there.

It's real.

It's it's maybe it's made with things that are different than cells, but it's it's still life.

It's a thing like if you can create, you know, the Turing test. Right. You create something that seems so real and interacts with you and can trick you and it can trick someone who thinks like the movie Zamacona. You're like the guy I fell in love with that robot lady. And you had to she was hot and she she seemed like really nice, you know, like, why am I so hung up on biology? What's the big deal?

You know, if that becomes what people are, if you can download your consciousness into something that looks like a human being in your consciousness, rides around in this. Creation, this technological creation, maybe that's what aliens are and maybe that's what we need to do to get past these territorial ape instincts that we have to like, look at a spaceship.

We all want to fly that well. Let's look at an animal.

I want to fuck it, you know, to the idea of wanting to go over to a place and dominate it.

You know, like I think the one of the key things we need to we might be able to get past is the AI in that sentence, the concept of individuality, the concept that, like I'm a and there's an identity like I am this meat bucket that that's like that somehow is special and unique and so on.

That ego, the ego, the consciousness, like it feels like something to be me as opposed to like maybe I'm just like a little finger tip of a much larger organism like and be able to see it like, you know, it's very possible that that what intelligent life forms look like is something much less individualistic.

Like if we look at and colonies and if we think of the individual ants, it's a very different way to think about life on Earth than the collection of the ants together or Fallica.

Look at the collection of the humans together as an intelligent organism.

Combined with the technology that we're creating, all that becomes almost a single organism that's becoming more and more intelligent, that the idea that there is a hard line between biology and digital technology, that we're developing it really from an outsider's perspective.

That line doesn't exist.

We're all interesting, complicated mush that doesn't have a concept of individuals, doesn't have a concept of ego or individual consciousnesses. It's all one thing and we're just adding more to it.

And, you know, with neural link, it's not, you know, people kind of think that there's going to be some kind of leap into the totally transformative.

You know, a thing that totally changes the very nature of our civilization, I think it'll just all be gradual, just like from my phone one and two and three, all this technology will slowly expand our capabilities.

It won't be just like the human.

I developed the revolution, the I developed the revolution. It was gradual. It wasn't like it just appeared.

It just something that slowly allowed you to sense the environment better and better and better and better, and eventually something as nice and crisp and sexy as the human eye emerged.

And, you know, the other concern people have is like surgery and so on, that that's that's also really, you know, it's a difficult thing.

Like I got LASIK surgery, for example. You mentioned eyes. That was a scary thing to get. Yeah, I imagine you got it. Five years ago, maybe. How'd it go? Is like a lot of people talk about it is you know, when I woke up next morning, I could see I could see for the first time, it was beautiful.

And it was like I was kind of angry that I didn't do it earlier.

I was like, that's what a lot of people describe as their experience. Now, what happened a week later is I forgot what it's like to not be that.

I took it for granted basically a day later, but like a week later, it was like I wasn't I already forgot the entire magic of the experience.

And that's what I think will just keep happening, is there's this gradual little step, this little this little leap into our future that everyone will go and say, wow, it's kind of cool, and then they'll forget it was cool. And then they'll go back on Twitter to complain about some some divisiveness that's happening in politics today.

They'll, you know, just constantly. Yeah.

You know, will all of a sudden have a capability to have some extra level of telepathic communication, for example, in 40 years.

And then people would just be like just like we got used to swipe writing on the phone. They'll you know, at first they'll be like first people would be like, I don't know.

I don't I don't want it. I'm not sure I want the government to know what I'm thinking next. They'll they'll just like, try it. I'll be like, oh, it's kind of cool. Much easier to type type on Twitter. And then next they'll just be like, that's it. We're all just communicating telepathically and all happened.

Well, there's still be so many pros to it to not not ever be able to lie. I mean, if we're forced out, I mean, one of the biggest problems with people's being deceptive, like we have this ability to communicate. We use sounds that relay intent. And then you listen, you know, you go into your own dictionary and your own concept of what these words mean. And then you you convey what you think I'm saying. You interpret what you think I'm saying.

But I could be a bullshit artist, like a lot of people are, like when when you talk to someone who was a psychic and they say you you have a relationship with. There's a woman, yes, there's a woman, keep talking, she you're not close, but you should be. There's yes. Yes, we should be. Who is this person in your life? It's my mother. I'm yeah. And you go.

But, you know, I'm saying like, this is what that is. If you could really look into their head and go, hey, fuckface, you don't see anything, you're lying to me. You're you're pulling my heartstrings. You know, I'm lonely. You're trying to manipulate me so that you can make money or you're talking to my dead mom. You know, like your mother wants you to be happy. She wants you to donate your money to charity.

You like this person not really talking to your mom. They're liars.

And there's a lot of those people out there all that would go away, all the bank fraud and manipulation, politics and all that will go away. A politician won't be able to like you to look right in their fucking head. You'll be like, oh, they don't care at all about America or, hey, he's a really good person. That really does think that we can get along, we really can work together. We have enough resources. We should behave as a community, as a giant 300 million people community.

And that's possible. It can be done.

And like, look at this, this guy's a murderer. We didn't even know this guy's walking around. He murdered three people. He'll be able see people to see into people's minds. You'll be able to know this is all all this stuff is incredibly tempting. When you when you think of something like NewLink or, you know, once there's something like that, there'll be multiple different versions of it. After after a while, when those innovations start to roll out, the what we'll give up, it'll be just like all the other aspects of technology.

We will give some things up and there'll be a bunch of people that do reminisce for the retro days. Like all the good old days when he wanted to send a letter, you had to write it down on paper and do to a horse like a fucking like. Who's that Kevin Costner movie The Postman. Remember that terrible fucking movie about Postapocalyptic Postman who was like the most important guy because he can get get your letters, put that kind of shit like.

We we give up something to get this new thing and then we decide this new thing, like I know very few people are giving up their cell phones and going to flip phones. Very few people are going no phone at all. Very few. Yeah, right. There's lots about Jamie. You just read the post real quick.

I put it up on this show the year 2000, 2013, one man walked off the horizon and Hope came with a look.

So you know what the greatest movie of all time is? What a world, huh?

No, it's not. It's terrible movie. But you know what's good? The Waterworld show at Universal in Hollywood. But I don't think they could do it anymore. I think California is so goddamn draconian, the restrictions. I think they've got it locked down because that Water World Movie is that is Citizen Kane compared to the Postman.

Postman is a steaming pile of shit. It's so bad.

It is a really bad movie.

But somehow, actually Kevin Costner's can make really bad movies and make them somehow watchable.

It's really great movies to Dances with Wolves. Fucking incredible. And that's all him. You know, he's made some awesome stuff, no doubt about it.

I like you. I mean, you make the pros and cons. I really like the replay of memory.

I don't know if that connects with you, but I remember that the idea of that, like I remember it sounds weird, but so like this one, I got a chance to talk to you afterwards.

And he had this funny comment. I mean, he thinks in weird ways.

Right? But his comment was that if we one day will be able to replay memories, I wonder if this is a memory that you and I would choose.

And it made me think like I certainly would because, you know, there's there's those moments like I would probably replay this very podcast in my in my mind, this experience.

I remember. You know, you do this a lot, but for me, it was a special experience, I was. Sitting with you and Eric Weinstein, the back of the Comedy Store, I remember during that moment the awkward and scared and nervous.

I remember thinking like like I didn't I didn't want to take pictures, but I wanted to, like, store this image because it felt like a historic moment, just that line up.

It was like the who's who of comedy doing just short little bits of comedy that entire night. It just felt like. It felt like history like I was I stepped into the Coliseum like, and got to hang out with a glad gladiators and if I mean not to be sort of it felt like that had to end at some point. I get Rush and I start to like, think about how this is going to end. But I felt like this is going to have to end eventually.

And this is and well, you were right, but I didn't.

And there was a virus, the virus. And it's an end of an era. But that was a special moment and I would want to replay that.

It's hard.

I have similar feelings about how special it was, but it was hard for me in the moment to think about it because although I did appreciate it as much as I could in the moment, you can't dwell on it too much because you're in the middle of a creative process like stand up comedy is an ever changing, constantly evolving process. When I have an act, I get it to a point where I can imagine recording it and then I recorded it.

Then I start over.

But during the whole time of making it, I'm always tweaking it. It's never done. It's just it's constantly being fucked with. I'm constantly putting this first and that second and switching the order and doing this part of the bit in the beginning and then switching it to the end and then adding something and maybe maybe being more sneaky with how I reveal the punch line or how I do this and that. And so there's there's this process is constantly going on.

You can't go. I mean, I know and I knew during a time like this really is the golden age of comedy. That's a very special time in this very special place.

I knew that. But I also knew that I couldn't think of that.

I can't I just had to keep moving.

But what about that's the comedy side. But what about the camera? I mean, the back of the Comedy Store is the camaraderie of it.

Yeah.

Like how when is the next time, say, we reopen the economy, when is the next time there's going to be all of those comedians showing up regularly to one place?

A lot of us have moved, unfortunately. Joey Diaz moved to New Jersey for now. What is that about?

What what do you think is slowly becoming The Sopranos? Listen, once the winter kicks in and he understands that he fucked up, I'm going to call him.

I'm going to present Texas as a viable opportunity. Hopefully by then I'll have a club here.

The number one goal, see, the goal was to get here, set up shop, put together this studio. OK, we got that going. We're up and running now. Goal number two is a comedy club. Goal number three is a ranch. Goal number three is we have a podcast ranch and we do all kinds of wacky shit there. You got to come back to the ranch.

We're going to we're going to have Duncan Trust. I'm going to live on the ranch.

You fucking guaranteed Duncan will come, by the way, greatest.

I mean, as just the fan, Duncan is. I heard you try to talk him into moving to Austin.

He wants to move to North Carolina. That's where he's from. You know, he's from Asheville.

I think he has designs on that. But if I could talk him into moving here.

Yeah, one thing we're both talking about doing a television show or doing a podcast, rather, doing a show together. I don't watch a television show, but he and I doing a show together, like a regular show, like maybe once a week, just just me and him sitting down and shooting the shit and talking about life once a week. I think we have a weird connection.

He and I, we've known each other for so long. He's been my roommate. He lived in my house for a little bit. And, you know, I've known him since he was the guy who answer the phones. The Comedy Store. Yeah.

You know, I know forever at the beginning of his comedy career. And, you know, we've always been real close. And we we're we're together. We bring out something weird in each other.

Yeah. I mean, the positivity that he brings, he just has a weirdly positive view of the world.

Yeah.

Yeah. Like that. Oh.

Like just like the crazy theories he has about the way the world is.

I mean. Yeah, yeah. He's a special human being. He really guy exists.

I mean. Yeah, yeah. Joey Diaz the other side of that. Yeah. He's chaos. Joey Diaz is chaos. If there was, you know, like an element called chaos and it had like a physical manifestation where you could like see like a like an avatar of chaos. It's Joey Diaz.

He would always bring the party. I always said, whenever we go on the road, Joey Diaz brings the party. He was always the guy that was just like like if we were out of dinner, Joey was always stealing the show. He was always the funniest guy in the room. He's always the mad man. And he also, Joey Diaz works best when people love him, like when he's around people who love him, when he knows he could just be himself.

And so, you know, all his crazy stories and preposterous exaggerations over the top, exaggerations about things all done for comedy.

Yeah, that's him. I think, you know, when you watch great chess champions play against each other or like great like Muhammad Ali versus Frazier was the moment when I saw Joey go against Alex Jones.

And I thought because because he's say crazy, I thought like I thought, like Alex Jones is the what is it the Frazier like? There's you know, there's no way you can take that guy down in with the art of conversation.

But Joey just took part. Well, it was back when Alex was on the radio, too. So Joe was talking about storing weed under his balls and sneaking it in on a flight to Texas.

And Alex, funny enough, was censoring.

I know. He was like, well, this isn't real. Hang on. Just joking around, ladies and gentlemen. Yeah. You know, and there's a lot of those characters out of the comic store, so a special place.

You miss it. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I do. But it doesn't exist right now.

And I'm a realist, you know, and also the place that existed in Los Angeles is not the same Los Angeles that places fucked right now. It's fucked in the mayor's fucked in, the governor's fucked. And they've done a terrible job of managing the pandemic. And the place is in ruins. It's a mess. L.A. is a mess.

It's. How does it get on? It's going to take years. So here's my worry. So you have a different, you know, L.A., you know, the Comedy Store, my worry.

I got that. Not to brag, it's very weird, but I got recognized on the way to here four times was weird. Congratulations is very weird.

Listen, I'm you're a celebrity. Fuck you. But I've never been recognized like that. You've been on this podcast. How many times now? Five. Five times.

So do you know many millions of people have seen you? Yeah. Yeah.

And I've the the I mean, the podcast I do is a little more technical. So like the kind of people that they don't it's I, I can see the difference between the people who recognize me from Rogen and the people who recognize me from the podcasts I do.

It's so different.

Like they're usually just like you say, shaved head tattoos versus or like digitizer like cauliflower ears. Right, bro.

And actually women too.

But then for guys, if you could tell, like, OK, this guy is the CEO of some company or like is a programmer, that's more than do you wear that suit and tie everywhere when you travel suit.

So travel usually because I hate traveling. I'll go jeans and shirt because.

Oh well that's true. That's my pajamas. Yeah. That's how you sneak by. Yeah.

Because with this suit their uniform they recognize me through the with the mask too. That's weird. That was weird. That's weird.

It makes you think like I recognize you from the eyes and the haircut anyway.

But the reason I bring that up is we apologize.

No, they mention two of the people actually mentioned that they're leaving San Francisco because they're tech people and they're said one of them moved to Austin and they said that the people are fleeing San Francisco to fleeing, fleeing silliness, the term fleeing.

Yeah, and that's the right term because San Francisco is insane. You know, San Francisco is an app where you can find the human shit in the city because it's so numerous, it's so prevalent.

You know, so many bums are shitting in the streets that they have apps.

I like how you went to that. I was referring to some another aspect of it, which is it's not even San Francisco. It's the entirety of Silicon Valley, which is there's a very much a group think. Yes. That moved away from a meritocracy of where we want to innovate and change the world with our ideas to a little bit more like of, you know, I don't know how to put it, but I kind of groupthink that pushes against that.

And so people are trying to push against that. How so?

Well, it I mean, it's what Jordan Peterson talks about. It's the identity politics tends to. Tried to silence the desire within people to to judge based on meritocracy, based on skill, based on hard work, based on passion, so on it changes the topic of the conversation in a way that moves like if you're a kid, guy or girl who dreams of changing the world, you start a startup.

Like the last thing you want to be talking about is the last thing you want to be doing is playing identity politics. What you want to hire the best people for the job, men or women. And you want to change the world. You don't want to be playing, playing discussions that are like that are going on in gender studies, parts of academia.

And so there's a kind of groupthink that I think holds you back within places like Silicon Valley, within certain parts of academia. I think these are important conversations to be had, but they need to be had by nuance and nuance without being a bully.

So most of the people that play identity politics, Twitter, they talk about, you know, all really good things.

They carry the flag of justice, of fairness, of of equality, of respect and love. But like they that's like the flag.

But what they do is they bully. Yeah. There's a toxic nature to it and they attack.

I get attacked actually for for, you know, not having an equal distribution of women on the podcast where I interview, that's something I work very much on.

Who is actually for this, you know, a small percentage of people on Twitter, but they and and I ignore I never respond and I always send telepathically love.

I mean, that's all I can do there. There's two things. One, there's probably been pain in their past, the hurting. And two is probably, from their perspective, enjoyable. That's social game to say.

I want I want the world to be more fair. Yeah. And saying that.

And then everybody like says congratulates themselves and each other for saying, I want the world to be more fair.

What they don't realize is by saying by calling somebody like me a fraud or are sexist is absurd, is you're you're putting hate out there as opposed to love. Like I'm annoyingly tweeting about love all the time.

Like, I even enjoy myself sometimes because I have a mood where I'm like I've tweeted before, like, life is beautiful.

I legitimately I was sitting like three at night and like with a stupid smile on my face. And just like, this is awesome.

Life is awesome. Cause awesome. And then and you call me a fraud, like, that's not the right place for the movement.

They do that because I'm probably an easy target, because I'm like, look, there's a nice guy.

He looks weak, like they think I'm weak.

And in the space of social justice warriors on Twitter, I am weak.

I wish we lived in the land in a place of like where with equality and fairness, I could fight people to the death based on things like gladiators, like stand in front of each other as long as it's consensual.

I would love to fight to the death for the ideas I believe in.

But on Twitter, it's not that's not the battle ground of ideas.

It's a it's a weird, weird place. So you're disconnected from actual real human interaction. It's not it's it's an unnatural way to communicate. It's one of the things we were talking about, about neural link or something along those lines that we could get to a place where you could actually read someone's thoughts.

I mean, do you know how gross it would look if you could actually see virtue signalling?

And it's in actual like clear manifestation like, oh, I see what you're doing. I read your mind.

You're hoping someone's going to love you by saying mean things. You're hoping that women are going to say thank you for being a champion of women, Mike. You know, like for standing up that Lex doesn't have enough of us on his podcast.

We need equal representation. We need equality of outcome.

You know, and this is this is what identity politics is all about. It's all about calling people out. But really what it's about is finding targets and attacking and very little gets done in a positive way. If you look at like what's the positive aspect of identity politics, like what's over the course of the last five years? What what good has been done when people are terrified? You know, a lot of people attack people on Twitter, but how much good has been done?

Well, it's it's complicated.

Like, I think about the reason, OK, I always try to find the silver lining and things and the way I think about it, first of all, I've become more conscious of the fact that there's douchebags in this world in terms of there was a lot of sexism in academia, for example, just like boys club stuff like that.

It's it's just fundamentally disrespectful towards. Women. That's out there. There's douchebags and there are often, you know, how I'd like Joe Biden touches like people's hair. Yeah, there's a creepiness to the way people behaved.

And I think, well, they have power in power. Whenever people have power, they behave in a weird way.

If you're a guy and you're a professor, like traditionally professors fuck their students.

Right? I mean, it's the most one of the most common things was like the professor in the graduate student.

Let's like rephrase that kind of 60s, the 70s. I don't know if that's traditional, but I do. I have seen.

But we know it's it's it's common.

Common. It was very, very, very common. Now it can get you in deep shit. Yeah. Now I can get you d platformed and get you fired by the university.

It has a lot of downsides because you're getting in the way of love but has an upside that you're getting in the way of douchebags. So yes, cancer culture at you know, you have Jordan Peterson getting millions of views highlighting the ridiculousness of cancer culture.

But at the same time, cancer culture also helps highlight the real douchebags out there to relax.

The you know, the the the ridiculous aspects to overtop the overextension of the metoo movement is arguably worth the positives created ultimately, ultimately.

So maybe not in the moment, but not of the people that were wrongly accused. But if you look 20 years from now, it would probably lead to progress.

Yeah, it's like saying Genghis Khan was good for trade. He opened up the path of trade to the east.

Well, I mean, people and people make the same argument for Hitler. Yeah, he he re he rebuilt the German economy.

And so that argument nobody makes the argument that, like an overall Hitler was good for, you know, like so I don't think.

But, you know.

Yeah, I think I think you're right. I think overall it's good. It's good that listen, I'm not a woman working in an office with a boss that is treating me like shit and wants to fuck me and sexually harassing me. And I would imagine that would make your life hell. I can imagine if I was a woman and I had to kiss some guy's ass in order to get a promotion and this guy would make disgusting remarks about me and try to fuck me, it would or worse or actually physically do something to you, I would imagine be terrible.

So that, look, I'm fully in support of that.

I've daughters, man. I don't want them to ever have to experience that kind of shit again. I'm glad that people they have to be accountable for things like that, that we do make, I think, workplaces in general.

Right. First of all, everybody, it sucks. No one wants to be stuck in some place all day. But also you have this weird culture in these workplaces where you're around all these other people and these people you see sometimes more than you see your own family. You're around them eight hours a day and you don't even get to pick them. Right. They're just the people that you automatically work with.

And if you're a woman and you're in a situation where you have to work with some man who has power over you and is abusive, it would be hell the you know, the workplace kind of interesting because I don't know what to do with it because a lot of people find love in the workplace.

Yeah, I saw too.

I as a rule, like never like I turned out that part of my brain off at the workplace because I feel it's such a difficult game to play. But I've been hit on by coworkers like in a positive not a power thing, but like you're close. Yeah. You want to. And then I was always running away from that because like what I imagine in my head is what happens when we break up. Right. What happens?

What like if we have a fight like which is human relations, like the drama of that, it's hard to get right.

And I think the I mean, from an individual perspective, I think. You shouldn't you shouldn't play victim, you should take the situation as as it is and make. Sort of rise above it, whatever it is, whatever whatever the challenge, whatever the difficulties, whatever of the situation you're in, you rise above it, that it's from the individual perspective because life is hard, the succeeding in a career is hard.

And to be stuck in the local optima of just like of the of playing victim and victimhood, I think for the individual is not productive. But as a society, as a conversation, we need to have like what? Who are the victims in our world and how can we create a world that has fewer victims?

And one of the things that Jordan Peterson points out that I think it's really important to mention is that we haven't been doing this office thing that long.

Hmm.

And meanwhile, I should like. Clarify, I don't know jack shit about working in an office, I never worked in an office in my life, but I couldn't imagine what it would be like. I understand people, but that's a weird thing, man. When men and women are sexually attracted to each other and they see each other every day with that very weird. It's very weird. And to say that you have to turn that off and it's admirable that you do.

But some people don't. You know, some people don't. Some people have like weird fucking fetishes. There's people they work with there.

Well, and OK. So I'm a romantic in general. Yeah, OK.

But and but I'm also a guy like people who hear me, especially your fans who think I'm better. Fuck you.

I'm not telling you. OK, I welcome you.

Message me. Let's take it out on the mat. OK, so yeah I won't read the comments but I'm just saying I'm not.

But you're actually telling them to do jujitsu and joking.

It's a joke unless you want to. OK, but if you're going to read those comments, someone's going to be you are a motherfucker.

Worse. Go, let's go. Broadway jujitsu in Boston. Don't say that. Well you see mistake right there.

But also if you're interested in learning jujitsu, go to Broadway Jujitsu in Boston, which there's every gym is struggling, but they open.

They're doing the dance that everybody is doing, which is like they're doing like socially distant training, like how's that possible?

So in Massachusetts is different, but you can do private training, which means they have these slots of one hour where people show up and train.

It's like I think three people are like two people.

They train and they keep, what do you call it every hour.

They do different different sets of people.

What do they test everybody? A temperature check.

So they're doing everything the law requires. So every everybody, every state is doing different.

But how effective is a temperature check? I mean, there's people that are asymptomatic. Do they have a high temperature?

It's not about what works and doesn't I mean, complying. It's about what I mean, from my perspective, healthy people should do whatever the hell they want. Like to me.

Let me let me rephrase that.

Whoever's comfortable like the level I believe in freedom here in Texas. Yes. These water bottles are made in Texas.

Are they crazy? The you should be able to choose to choose your actions. And then people who are who are either have symptoms or people who are have a high risk category, they should they should stay home.

They should be isolated themselves.

But there should be a little bit more freedom to to define how you interact with this world, especially at this time, especially where the curve is.

But, you know, there's rules in Massachusetts they're supposed to follow and you get so.

They don't they don't understand. They don't understand, obviously, combat sports or like, you know, jujitsu is essential for like a lot of people like for their psychology.

Yeah, there's people going nuts right now. Yes. Part of their who they are as a human. It's part of their religion. Yeah. And and it was also part of the way of exercising out their demons.

Yes. And yeah. And now you have a lot of people sitting alone at home with their demons. Mm hmm. Yeah.

And it's also a big part of their social life, social life, a huge part of their social life and also physical touch. There's something about jujitsu, the physical touch of jujitsu. It's very it's very good for people, even though you would think of it as like a violent interaction. There's actually so much camaraderie that's involved in jujitsu. There's so much community, there's so much friendship and love in jujitsu, you know. Yeah, you're practicing killing each other, but you're doing so with good friends who are equally skilled.

Iron sharpens iron. And it's very important that you do like you want to roll with people that are challenging to you. You want them to be good. You want them to try really hard. It's a part of the whole thing. And you you feel very blessed. Like, you know what happens after you're done rolling. You always thank each other and hug each other. I mean, that's part of the culture. And jujitsu is a very friendly culture.

You know, it's one of the things I love about Brazil and the Brazilians is that they're they're so friendly. It's like a big part of their culture. It's like a big part of Brazilian jujitsu. It's like the the way the instructor interacts with the students. It's very friendly. Very friendly.

Yeah. And now that that's gone, what do you do that's known for a lot of people? They're going nuts. You know, maybe you should go run.

I mean, that's why I went to the whole Gorgons thing I've been doing. Just I'm going nuts by myself. Well, explain what you did, because it's pretty funny.

Yes. Because it's a first.

I follow two people on Instagram, you and David Gorgons, which is you for the for the for the locals for the laughs and Goggins for like just to feel like a week bitch.

And at one point in the spring, I forget what it was. He posted something about a 48 hour challenge.

So where you run for miles every four hours.

So I did that.

I never ran more than 22 miles before then I just did it.

Now, my whole methodology for doing these things is I announce it on Twitter. So that, like in the moment, you can't get out of it. I can't get out of it. So.

So, like I, I saw the post on Instagram, I went to Twitter. I said it. I'm, you know, in my head. And I think I'm not allowing myself to think someone's going to do it and I'll figure out how to do it then. So I figured out how to do it. That was the worst idea ever. I don't recommend that for miles every four hours.

So how long does it take you to run for, Miles? Forty minutes, let's say. And so you have a three hour plus 20 minute rest in between each four mile run and you're you're sleeping for three hours at a time. So you could get up and run. Yeah.

So it's it's a mental test of your ability to do something really stupid for prolonged periods of time.

Like because it's not it's not like running 14 miles one take.

That's actually probably easier.

The the the hard thing is run a little bit, you know, for miles is pretty easy, especially at a slow pace and then like shower.

It depends. I mean, I showered almost every time, which is another thing that's hard to do because you're like constantly showering and you're like, oh, here we go.

I almost didn't sleep at all. You slept like one hour at a time, really. And then I overeat. So I was eating carnivores, though, mostly eating Kanwar at that time. So I was eating like I eat a giant rotisserie chicken.

Like your brain starts convincing you that you need, like, the energy for the fuel. So I felt like really bloated and like you running with a chicken. So in my stomach.

And then just like and then and then all these demons come out.

I mean, at least for me, just like like the you start like I start thinking I need to delete the comment I did on Twitter. I need to order like the like this is stupid. I'm a scientist like who I like your mind starts making up stuff like why are you doing this?

You know, all of those demons.

And then it starts saying things like, you know, you have like all the papers you wrote or shit.

Everything you ever done is shit.

Like you need to work hard. Like if you why are you working so hard on this stupid running thing, you should be focused and doing the thing that you like your career.

You should be like all of those things. And my parents come into place like you. Should you find a wife.

I have kids. I call it all. You talk about love all the time.

Why are you fucking single? You fucking you know, like that's the. That's what. Yeah.

It doesn't actually speak in those words, but I feel that you feel it and then and then you just and then you feel the age thing.

I mean but like you know, you know, you used to be able to wrestle, like you've never even ever beat anyone good at wrestling. You never like your jujitsu blackpoll.

You don't deserve that blackpoll like all those thoughts are coming. And so but anyway, that was the 48 hour challenge.

And then one day I think it Jun yet Jun maybe at the end of May I woke up and I had this idea that the brain is stupid to to say that, to tweet and say that I'll do as many push ups and pull ups as the street gets likes.

I don't know why I thought that. I thought in my head because I usually, you know, I talk about love all the time, you know, I get like, I don't know, 100 likes 500. I don't know whatever I get.

But it's not I thought, like, hmm.

I need to get harder and need to start exercising every day again. And I thought I would get about maybe a thousand. So I end up getting twenty thousand.

Yeah. So that's what I said in thirty days. Right. And that's too much for me. That's just too hard. So I in my mind I thought as I said, OK, let me distribute that across other exercise, I'll do it every day but I'll distribute across bodyweight squats too.

So the idea is, you know, coronavirus, I want to do stuff like have a kettlebell to maybe exercise that can do at home every single day.

But the tweet said push ups and pull ups only. So I and before then I've interacted with David quite a bit.

So I sent him.

Yeah, yeah, so I sent them this thing and it's just saying, like, here I feel what I said, it was a basic message. Do you have any advice?

And you sent me back a video of him or I asked them a few questions and he sent back a video of him answering the questions, calling me out of my bullshit, because he said you said in your tweet, push ups and pull ups, motherfucker.

However, he talks like he's like, if I were you.

So he did the worst thing, which is like, if I were you, I would I would do what I promised.

But I understand how things are, so if you like. So he went on to give me advice if I bitch out.

So I end up like, what else can you do? So I started doing push ups and pull.

So it's about it's 500 push ups a day and 170 pushups a day.

Plus six miles of running and I just started well, every day, every single day for a month. For a month. Yeah. There you go. Yes, this is this is the Instagram days, man, this is when I was, like, so proud of myself, I was proud of myself that I'm actually doing this. And I think day three is when it all just went to shit.

That's when it went to shit. So I started getting a shoulder. So I stopped on day seven, I believe, and took 10 days off. So I my shoulders are just overwhelmed with pain. And you get an MRI?

No, no. I know the shot. Like, I've gotten this. It's over. It wasn't sorry it wasn't hurt. It was like I know this pain.

Well, where is your shoulder? It's complicated. It's like slightly in the back.

Mm hmm. I know the pain well from like I know it's an overused thing like I did when I trained judo twice a day.

I know like I know the pain.

I know how to treat it, which is like ice, but like the reps are insane for people as people have done this kind of thing.

It's so I gave myself two weeks to actually ramp up to it, too.

So like I was already have a good baseline put.

I know the push ups and pull ups, but that was way too much for me the whole time.

David motherfucking Goggins is with me on either on the phone or email every single day and he's doubling everything I'm doing so well, he's not doing the squats because he's just had knee surgery.

So he's with surgery, doing the pushups. And what did he have done to his knee?

He doesn't he doesn't like to talk about stuff like I couldn't get a he because. I think he probably just hurt his knee just for the haters to think he'll quit, like, well, that's why I know he had his knee drained.

Yeah, there are some some problems. He's one of those ignored guys. Yeah, you've got pains. He just ignores it. Yeah. Well, you got. Oh, you say.

Oh, this is them pulling, OK, what does it say here? A lot of us think that just because there's an obstacle in the middle of the road. Oh, look at this. They're going to they're going to they're pulling all that fluid out of his knee.

Who what does it say? This is just talking about setbacks. OK, here's more of the not I've had bad knees, bad hips, etc. for 20 plus years, not letting that stop me and I won't. Now my find we must exhaust all options. Find a way.

Yeah. Jesus Christ.

So he's draining multiple syringes of fluid out of his.

Look at that nasty shit that's coming out of his fucking neimann. How much fluid it is in his knee.

So the thing is like. Your knee is a physical structure and I appreciate his mindset, but ultimately, if you're draining that much fluid out of your knee, you've got real internal problems and you could fuck it man through that shit, but you still diminishing the physical structure of your knee.

Well, that's his whole philosophy, which is the point. Yeah. There's a video, I think, like one or two running like a one after this.

He's like, I'm back motherfucker or something or whatever. Yeah.

Whatever he's doing, he's running like you scroll up a little bit scroller. I'll show you what it is right there. That one. Play that. Computer warriors. I read your fucking messages on those videos I put up with me and my crutches, me get my knees straight. You are happy as fuck it is. You're also happy because you never run again. Oh, that. See, I told you in your friendship, your fucking only a one minute fucking video about me.

You know how hard I train, how I live, the dedication I put to my fucking life. So why do you throw five years so fat motherfucker who plays with no dedication? Maybe you're jealous. Who knows but can't resist. I'll be back. Never. Oh fuck. You stay hard. You stay here. He's the best. Goddamn, I love that dude. He is a treasure. Yeah, he's a treasure.

But like he in this world where I the reason I stop actually posting about the thing I'm doing.

Is what I realized, especially probably the community, I mean, so many people were telling me, like that's too much, like they were encouraging me to be healthy. They weren't understanding the whole point, the philosophy of David Goggins, which is the point, is to push the limits of what is healthy.

This isn't to get like doing those kinds of reps is not for some kind of like to get back in shape.

The moment I agree to answer David Goggins is like email and then phone call and then you're accepting not a nice way for like Nick turning up my cardiovascular, getting in.

It was to go through hell. So this is the first time Dan Gable, a famous wrestler, famous wrestling coach, talked about that.

He always tried to train so hard that he wouldn't be able to get off the mat that if you would have to be carried off the mat.

And he said he never succeeded at that, but he always really tried to push so hard that you literally couldn't get off the mat.

And the results of that, we were talking about the physical structure. He has replaced hips, replaced knees. So so body fell apart.

The Internet is very nice and helpful to tell you exactly that, which is your body will fall apart.

That's not the right way to do it.

When I got injured, people were like just like you said, haha, that obviously you shouldn't be doing this. Right.

But that's not the point. The that's not the point of this. Like this is the first time I am not a crier. There's I cried three times facedown on my carpet in this whole challenge. So I was doing all this at home.

Just there's all different kinds of demons that came out and just the.

So if for people who know push ups and pull ups. And done this kind of exercise, what happens is it's kind of your muscles get used to it, it's not physically that challenging. They're in the state of just complete exhaustion. And what it is is almost boring.

So it's a task of your mind pushing through a thing that's really boring.

Your muscles are exceptionally sore. They're exhausted. And again, all those demons of like, why are you doing this? It's like nobody will care if you just quit all that kind of stuff and dealing with all of that.

That's why, because it's about depending on the day, but it's at least two hours of push ups and pull ups spread throughout the day.

And it's just it's a grind. And then I have Gorgons on me about it, always doublings stuff.

So I after 10 days, I returned. And at that point. I did it without announcing it, I did it for four or five days to make sure I could do it at that point I knew I'm going to have to finish even with injury. So I knew after ten days, shoulders back normal, I figured out a whole like I figure out the eating that I'm doing.

I figured out the whole recovery. Would you change in the eating?

It sounds weird, but I.

I started to switch to one meal a day, which is before I sleep, which felt good. Is mostly Akito in terms of supplement that your sponsor. Actually that's how I found them. Athletic greens. They I don't know why it makes me feel good.

Great stuff. Yeah.

Like because the worry you have with Kaito I don't know, I'm not, I'm not into nutrition science. I don't follow it. I just listen to my body. The worry you have is you don't get the nutrients like you don't get the vital nutrients.

Yeah.

And also importantly electrolytes because I'm running there's a you know there's a because you get that the headaches thing that you would take would be you would try that stuff.

No, I swear without a drink that every day is that is that it's just an electrolyte. Yeah.

Electrolytes up to sponsor too. But even if it wasn't if they stopped being a sponsor, I'll still tell people what are they what is it supposed to.

So they have like some vitamins, sodium, sodium, glucose, optimum ratio of sodium to glucose, like very scientifically researched. It's fantastic. Shipmen changed the way I would always get cramps. And once I started using, I stopped getting cramps. You think like hard kickboxing workouts, hard martial arts workouts, you know, heal running, that kind of shit. You beat your body up, man. If you're not getting enough electrolytes, you're certainly draining them out of your system and taking them in the form of liquid.

I've just made a big difference.

I'm sorry. He's still sticking together, fighting back.

No, I'm not. And I don't Iquito, but I'm mostly Carnivore, you know. I mean, I eat some salads and I eat some fruit, but the vast majority of what I eat is meat. The vast majority.

Yeah, that's what eighty maybe 80 plus percent of everything I eat is meat.

I don't know about you, but that's one of the things that I just stop wanting to post about it, because when the exercise is insane and to my eating, I just don't. I like positive vibes.

People get angry, people get angry, and not only just angry, they they keep telling me it's unhealthy. And I've experimented. I wrestled my whole life. I understand what peak performance is on different diets. Like I know my body. I've explored and like learned about what feels good for me. I'm not saying it's good for others. I've experimented with eating like seven times a day when I was more doing like powerlifting stuff of experiment, like for me, eating once a day or eating twice a day in a small window, like intermittent fasting, very low carb.

I do two things in my life, which is Goggins type challenges, which is doing like physical challenges and then long periods of deep thinking, deep work.

So intellectual work for me, kiddo, and once a day focuses the mind like nothing else.

It allows me to sit for eight hours at a time. So I usually do two four hour periods of deep work.

She shut off every distraction and completely focused yourself on a single task. Nothing like, you know, for me, the interesting thing, and I know that about myself, what I didn't wasn't really sure is with the push up and pull up thing. What is the right like supplementation for that, and I wasn't sure, but I stuck to it, I stuck to basically entirely Carnivore, I would say under 20 grams of carbs, maybe even under 10 grams of carbs on some days, and mostly just a lot of meat.

I wasn't calorie deficit. I actually got a little fatter. Really?

Yeah. So I was crazy. I was starving.

OK, that sounds. Please don't flip this out, but I was sorry I was starting for me, like I would remember waking up, like wanting like a bloody steak in the middle of the night when you put your tissue must be so like everything must need nutrients, like so badly, so much protein.

You're breaking everything down. That's such an extreme requirement of your body to do something like that.

It's not like crazy. We're not talking about David. Ghanians took it to the end, of course.

Of course. But doubling everything you do is just insane.

So thousand that a thousand push ups is different than five hundred push ups.

So five hundred is doable for like it's just a thousand is insane.

And also I didn't you know, there's certain things on form, like I didn't go all the way down on the pull ups, like I did a form of pull up with my one that my hands closer together, just you save your shoulder to save the shoulder.

So I made sure this isn't like to prove anybody to this. The other thing, when I posted videos of myself doing push ups and pull ups, that's why I stopped is like people would tell me, like the form, stop reading the comments.

I do.

How many times during this podcast have you talked about people saying things to you in the comments and it upsetting you? Well, it's been like ten will help me out with something then, OK?

The reality is that a lot of other really intelligent people.

Read the comments, you mean like Eric Eric wants to hear? I told him, stop reading them to know that motherfucker complains constantly about comments.

But the thing is, yes, that's a good but I'm so the difference unionise one one important things.

I do hope to be one of the technologists that either creates a competitive Twitter or helps Twitter become a better version of itself.

So I want to create the systems that that that create that community in the comments. That's positive.

So for me, it's important to understand that the demons in their well, you're going to have to fundamentally change the way human beings interact with each other with no repercussions.

When people have no repercussions, they interact anonymously. There's just a fundamental aspect of cruelty that emerges. There's no getting around around it. I disagree.

I think what I don't disagree. I think the fundamental thing that happens is some small percentage of humans start becoming toxic.

Yes. And that drives away what I believe is the majority of the population core, therefore friendly, like the kind of conversations you have at parties in person.

No, listen, I agree with you 100 percent. Most of the interactions that I have on online, even when I stop reading comments, were positive. The vast majority, when you cultivate like one of the things that I've tried to do with this podcast is talk to people the way I talk to people in real life, you know, warts and all, the vast majority of my interactions in real life are positive.

The vast majority, the vast majority are happy. Occasionally they're not. Occasionally someone's a fucking dick, you know, and that's just what you run into, dickhead. Sometimes it sucks and it's annoying, but it's a part of life.

My Internet feed, based on this podcast, based on how people get to know me, reflected that it's mostly positive. It's mostly people recognizing what my intentions are.

My intentions are to try to get out of the way as much as possible, put together the best podcast I can do my best, try to be curious, try to feed my curiosity, just do my best open minded, kind loving that's not really OK and help people and promote people.

Those that that's another really big part for me is promote people like let let them help them succeed because I feel good about that. Makes me feel good. Yeah.

Like who the hell am I like for some reason you saw it, you see stuff in people and then you share like selflessly he's promoting like you do that with comedians who do that with a lot of even Eric Weinstein of one of the, you know, incredibly brilliant.

Jordan Pearson could be argued that he was really propelled forward by conversation on your podcast.

I mean, I'm happy to do that.

It makes me feel good. It's one of the most important parts of this podcast I think, that I can introduce. And in doing so, it also enriches other people, because you get to hear these interesting conversations and it stimulates their mind and it changes the way they think about certain things. So the vast majority of interactions that I had online, even before I stopped reading comments, were positive. The problem is you start dwelling on the ones that aren't like you're doing in this podcast.

You are you're literally telling me everything that's wrong with reading comments by by telling me you reading comments and then complaining about the things that people say about your form or the thing say about you not having enough women on your podcast or the people say you're Obeida, you're going over and over and over again for no reason.

That's interesting. But all of those things are completely unnecessary. And you're going to fight me on it right now because I see you gearing up. I'm gearing you're gearing up for some sort of a response. Yeah, yeah.

I'm I'm I've been gearing up.

OK, first of all, let me put it because it's more fun to talk about the negative stuff most of my life. The reason I read comments is I've met incredible people. I mean, I'm currently with the very small level of celebrity. I'm fortunate enough to have people. They're just full of love. Two things, love and intelligence like that. They make me think they inspire me, this incredible people. And that's why I read the comments.

Still, for now, at least, I do. I did hire somebody to help me, like, fight the trolls, but like to because you can remove comments and so on. I don't think that's a long form, long term solution. I think the long term solution is technology.

Here's the fundamental problem. I think that 99 percent of Joe Rogan fans, you can say any kind of percentage are people I would want to hang out with at a party and talk with. I think so, too. And I think the comments section should reflect that. I think it's a technology problem.

I think what happens is the one percent that don't really want to hang out with dominate the conversation in the comments section and don't I don't think well, they're more inclined to comment.

It's a bunch of things they say they're better at commenting the kind of derisive, funny thing, like there's a mix of humor and derision which somehow attracts a certain part in us as like people who click like.

Hmm, like somebody, you know, this is a new studio. Or I was saying how the studio is kind of like the cyber truck release. There's something in people where they want to. Like the funny, derisive comment about the way the new studio looks, for example, when you look at comments about your new studio, there's a humongous amount of really positive comments.

But like the ones, like the negative ones, and they're not even negative.

They're more like just like shitty in a funny way.

They rise to the top. That's a technology problem because like that shitty comment drives the way people like me from commenting.

I want to comment.

I still I still comment. Just wasting so much time thinking about this.

No, I disagree. I think there's a place for community and the Internet. Yeah, there is. And if commenting is I mean, what call it something else. Call it social media interactions.

Like most people at some level of celebrity, stop checking their Twitter like mentions, Twitter comments and so on because of the toxicity, the top comments on Donald Trump or the top comments on Bill Gates or how comments on Obama accounts, if you look at them, pedophilia is usually involved.

And it's like, how is Barack Obama?

Why would I want to interact in the comments with a community that were like, turn your comments off?

Yeah, but what I'm telling you is, OK, you're telling me that's death, though? You're accepting. Yeah. You're censoring people now that's they get in saying, well, they just become accustomed to being able to speak as well.

So that's part of the thing. Like an Instagram.

It's not just that you post something, it's that other people get to post things as well. Yeah.

And it's like I, I try to fight like I comment.

You're the only person on Instagram who I comment on. Oh boy.

Is they're OK, they're fun. They, there's a fun community there.

OK.

And I ignore like I actually trained my brain to ignore any of the haters, like I was just this fun, really loving, intelligent people that should be the community.

Yes, I've been OK.

But you don't agree because you know that should be the community's sentiment. But it isn't currently and I think that could be cut.

It is the vast majority. It's just the kind of people that comment in the first place.

OK, let's let's just do a thought experiment.

If you have if you have a million people on your Twitter and they're all fans of your podcast, you have a million podcast fans, how many of them are going to comment?

How many how often do you only said the only comment on my page, how many people comment on people's pages?

How many people that have enriched, important, enriching, important, difficult lives were they're filled with challenges? Take the time to comment shitty things on Internet a now very, very few most of the people or they have unrealized potential and they're they're not doing well.

Let me can I can I propose a different thought experiment? Sure.

How many people out of those million that listen to the podcast mind are yours that have an intelligent, interesting thought that occurs when they listen and they would share it with me if I was one on one, if I was quite a few.

Yeah, that's my problem. Like I think. Right. I would like them to feel safe to say something. Yeah.

Then they should be. It's just they're going to have to deal with trolls but. No, but you're accepting the way things are now.

And I'm saying I think there's a technological solution that I'm constantly and that's what NewLink Neurogenic is the well, the the future versions of it that actually allow you to read minds. I mean, that's the technological solution to realize that this person's flawed because, you know, they're they're abused by their uncle or, you know, they get bullied throughout childhood or they have a disease or they they're impaired mentally. There's something wrong with them. I mean, that's that's what you're dealing with when you're dealing with a lot of these people that are online that are angry.

Their lives are not good.

You know, you're not getting people there live amazing lives that spend the vast majority of the day shitting on people on the Internet.

But I go to some people's Twitter pages and I see them all day long saying mean shit all day long, arguing about things all day long, complaining about things.

And it's the vast majority of their social interaction. It has to be just based on volume. It's yeah, it's super unhealthy.

But I feel it might be optimistic. But I think those people, if you put a mirror to them, meaning you make them realize that that they're being toxic, that they could be incentivized, that could be encouraged to find the better angels of their nature. They could be.

But a lot of times that toxicity is coming out of a lot of other flaws in their life and their personality. Like you're talking about, you're you're thinking in terms of your own self. You're a guy who did this fucking ridiculous thirty day challenge. You're a guy who is running four miles every four hours like this. That's how a normal human being your guy is constantly trying to improve. Your guy is sitting down every day, turning off all your distractions and doing deep intellectual work, that is not most people.

Now, if you could acquire a group of people that are your fans, that have similar goals and similar discipline, that would be amazing.

But they would be your friends, you know. I mean, that's that's what ultimately we would like. We would like all our interactions with people in line to be people that we love and care about, people that share like minded goals, people that you can you actually can learn from them.

You can you can listen to their words and see their deeds and see how they react to certain things and see how they grow and change. And you actually benefit from this interaction. There's a lot of people that are online that are not they're not capable of that for whatever reason, whether it's programming, meaning like what's happened to them in their life has led them to this point. Whatever failures or insurmountable obstacles that have shown up in their life that have caused them to fall into this rut, that's that's what you get.

You just get the numbers of humans you're interacting with online. There's so many people. And then also you get no social cues. You don't feel bad when you say mean things to people. You can say, hey, man, you sucked on that show and you're like, oh, I thought it was a good episode.

Fuck, did I suck on your show? You know that that hurts people. It bothers people. But that's what they're trying to do. They're trying to bother you. They're trying to lash out at you.

And the type of people that try to do that are overwhelmingly losers.

But this is I have a dream. There's there's ten million plus people that like the Joe Rogan experience, and they're really cool people. I meet them all the time. Sure.

And I would love to go to the comment section and be inspired by the positive, thoughtful energies or even disagreements that are that come from a place of respect and love. Like I I go to books for that. For example, I read books that are full of thoughtful disagreement or just like respectful deep thinking. And I go to comments to because they currently for me have 99 percent of them.

Are that OK? But let me stop you there. And this is really important. That's not what you talking about. What you're talking about is the negative ones. All you've talked about, the negative ones.

You haven't said anything about the positive ones. You haven't said anything about going to the comments section reading inspiring things.

You haven't said anything about going to the comment section, reading helpful thoughts and strategies and the different things that people have said in the comments that have really inspired you.

You haven't said anything about that, but you said at least three or four different things about negative comments that people said to the point where you're challenging people to fight, you're giving out the address of your school.

But I don't listen. You're doing what you're doing. Yeah. Whether it's for fun or not, you're doing what you're doing. You're dwelling on the negatives so much that you're literally telling people where you train.

You understand that. Yeah. And I mean part of that.

So you're you're doing a good job from a psychoanalyst perspective, but part of that is for fun.

I understand they definitely have a disproportionate effect, especially for a person who's not like I'm genetically full of self-doubt.

I think of myself often as a fraud. Like there's a no that's not it's full of self-doubt.

You know what that is? You just have high expectations of your own performance. I do, too. But listen, I'm not a fan of anything I do. I'm the biggest critic of everything I do ever. That's just how it goes. I'm never satisfied, but that's also why I continue to do things.

And and the toxic negative comments connect to that little part of you part me.

And I'm just I'm bringing up the fact that I feel like the it's the only solution cannot be not to read comments. This is for now. That is the wise advice. You're giving wise advice.

That's what you have to deal with the landscape. This is the landscape as it's presented to you. You can't imagine a better world where there's no real solution. Well, because there's no technological solution to avoid the trolls. But here's the thing.

So I try and build it. How are you gonna build that? Well, I mean, without giving away any intellectual secrets?

Well, I. I think systems that know more about you on as a human in order to be able to incentivize. Better had to be a better human are needed, so currently the AC systems, the recommender systems that feed most of the social networks, YouTube, Netflix and so on, they know very little about you.

They have a very primitive capture of who you are as a human that ultimately leads to your purchasing behavior.

They don't understand about your set of beliefs, the source of toxicity, a source of pain of how to and how to put you on a trajectory that improves you as a human. I think that's a problem. I think that's a recommender system, what's called problem. And that's where this I've been working on I'm failing at it. I've been a pretty low point, actually, psychologically. But that's that's a dream for me.

So the the thing that I've talked about before, which is like building an A.I. girlfriend, is is not a correct way to phrase it.

It's more about A.I. systems being able to know you well and be an Assistant B to form a connection with you in order to help you become the best version of yourself. That's what friends do. That's what girlfriends, partners do. That's what I think A.I. Systems can do.

I think it's possible. And I also think that when we get to the next generation of technologies and this is we're all three hours here I want to talk to you about you were there for the NewLink experiment, the most recent demonstration where they used it on a pig. Tell me, like what?

What was that like? And there's a big what?

First of all, the pigs were very happy. Like what they said in that presentation was pretty, pretty accurate. They love food and they just they seemed happy.

And the people, the caretakers there seemed like really good people.

And where is the where's the implant on the pig? Can you see it physically? Actually, I don't know. Yeah, it depends on which one we're looking at.

I think one of them they just showed three one I think didn't have it. One had it in our had it removed and the other one I think it was still actively in it. So I don't remember them actually showing like here it is.

And what was the demonstration like. What how do they demonstrate how it worked. While they. So first of all, I should say that I have no inside information I should like like this is very much there a company, OK, I'm just some random dude that showed up.

Well, you've interviewed Ellen before. You know him, but I'm not I don't have any insider information.

And more importantly, I'm an AA person, so I'm not an neurobiologists like this is this was really exciting to me as a spectator to see biological systems, pigs. Right. That that are interacting with computational systems.

But what I'm asking is, what was the demonstration that the actual demonstration was at the first level was that they successfully implanted neural link in a pig. The pig seemed to be doing great. And then they also show the pig that had it taken out.

That's at one level what was going on with the pig that had neural link. Was there any demonstration of what was doing for the pig?

They were doing playback of the 124. So there's 124 channels like the electrodes that connect to the brain that are firing. They're measuring the signals from neurons. And that's time on the x axis from left to right this time and then vertically. That's the 124 points that are lighting up when a neuron is firing. And they were playing that back and they played it back in such a way where they convert the signal to like musical notes so you can hear the signal.

It's another way to visualize it.

But, you know, it's it's showing that it's effectively being able to read the signal from one hundred sorry. I'm not sure if I was saying 100 I'm a thousand neurons or a thousand like collection of neurons from the brain. So that's that's two orders of magnitude. That's a lot more than any other devices ever done.

So like being able to, you know, get signals from the brain and the high resolution.

I mean, one day the I think the vision is that a thousand, just like you mentioned with the TVs, a resolution of a thousand is very low.

It would be millions or billions or trillions like it is for LCD displays.

But this is already a really effective you know, eventually your brain is going to be filled with wires and then they're going to go, what do we need this brain for? We just come up with an artificial brain. You're not even going to notice. We go to sleep, be gradual. It'll be gradual.

It'll be the same with I mean, it's a change of technologies. This might be obsolete and useless by the time we're live all live in a virtual reality world.

But this is what I was thinking when it comes to aliens, when you look at the alien, the archetypal alien, what do you see? See something with a big head, big eyes, no genitals.

You know, you see no muscles, you see just like a frame, just this weird structure. And I wonder if we're going to get to a point where we start replacing things and improving things and we realize, well, there's there's some problems with our system. And one of the problems is meeting. One of the problems is testosterone and estrogen and emotions and all these different things that, you know, the desire to control property and boundaries and all the different things, the territories, all the different things that make people tribal, all the different things that make people angry.

And maybe that's what's going to get in the way of innovation, that maybe we're going to get to a point where there's going to be some sort of mind sharing technology.

That's one. They have big fucking heads, right? Maybe there's going to be some sort of interaction technology, some some vastly improved thing that's going to make regular biological functions seem so obsolete that we're going to be readily cast them aside or maybe we'll cast them aside slowly and gradually, like the evolution of the eyeball.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, on the flip side, you know, in the yearling presentation, they talked about alleviating human suffering, for example. There to me, one concern is, you know, all the things that tribalism, all the what is it, toxic masculinity or all the things, all the things you see as negative.

They could be features like the there is a need for suffering. There's a need of tension. There's a need of violence and war for us to figure ourselves out that sort of removing all the suffering.

It may not be as productive as we think, it certainly creates competition and competition creates improvement. I mean, this is that that's the thing about if everyone just got along and everything was fine and perfect, would there be as much innovation? And if ultimately this human being, this creature, that's when you look at the overall the goal of this thing.

As I was saying before, it seems that the goal of this thing is to make better stuff. Well, the best way to make better stuff is to have some motivation to do that.

And that's where materialism comes in. That's where sex comes in. That's where greed and envy all these different emotions that we think are very bad. But generally speaking, if you talked about those emotions to people that would say they're negative, they would put them in a negative connotation. But they might be what's empowering people to move in this direction with more speed?

Yeah, and we all need to be trying to figure that out. And mortality is a big part of the picture of people that talk about immortality. It feels like they imagine Joe Biden, Donald Trump, like lived forever. We would have Clinton Trump like we have these families just like forever running our world.

I mean, one of the things that makes this world run is the passing away of previous generations, of previous systems of thought. And, you know, you have to always consider like the things we see as negatives that make up our psychology, make up different characteristics of human civilizations.

Our have our positive in some sense that wars create progress. They create suffering, but they also create progress. They create beautiful music and art. They create the bonds of love and friendship like nothing like nothing else in this world. Conflict and suffering. The finiteness of life kind of makes life worth living for many people. That is part of the problem. In order to really appreciate the light, you got to experience the darkness. You have to know the darkness is real.

And one of the exciting things about like NewLink understanding our mind is not alleviating suffering, but enriching the way we experience the world. So like enriching this the way we experience suffering the expanding the way we can experience the highs and the lows. It's expanding our consciousness, doing the thing that jokingly said with mushrooms, but basically doing what mushrooms do, but in a controlled and, you know, much more powerful way.

Well, maybe something can transcend this biological limitation that we're discussing of being a human and that through this innovation, we can reach some point where there's a different motivation. And this other motivation might be all peace and love. It might be it might be that this motivation through this thing, if we can somehow or another suppress all the negative aspects of our biology and enhance all the positive aspects of camaraderie and love and friendship and do so in a way that's tangible for everybody.

That's another problem with things like neural like like how much is this going to cost and how much is it going to separate the haves from the have nots? You know, Ellen was telling me he was discussing on the podcast. He said it's it's going to have you're going to be so much more productive if you have it. Well, people are more productive and more successful.

And if you need a lot of money in order to get it done and then you get it done and you're more productive and then more successful, ultimately it's going to it's going to create a wider and wider gap between people who have everything and people who have nothing if that if that individual productivity results in the increase of the gap.

But it can also potentially just like the individuals who have created some incredible technology in this world.

You think about Ford, you think about Steve Jobs and you and Elon Musk is they're individuals.

They're super weird, intelligent and productive. But they ultimately created a better world with the inventions they made. So, you know, it's it's it's possible that the productivity of those individuals actually creates, you know, lifts all boats that it creates ultimately by the world.

And as that process goes on, more and more people will be able to afford these technologies.

So like the the lead adopters, the people that get it in the beginning might have a disproportionate advantage. But the that disproportionate advantage doesn't necessarily create a negative outcome for the world.

If if there is if David favor what he saw was actually a thing trying to communicate that, like Elon said, love is the answer. Say say the aliens were trying to communicate, love is the answer. And here is this badass pilot, Top Gun, like Tom Cruise character who just like wasn't sure if he's going to shoot it or not kind of thing. I wanted to fly it, but it was just saying, like, love is the answer.

Maybe when you expand the mind, maybe Feuilles on shrooms or with NewLink, you'll be able to see that communication. And ultimately the thing you'll be able to see will be good for society.

So like it's not you won't just because you'll be more productive won't you won't try to get a bigger yacht, bigger, bigger house, better cars.

But you'll see that we're like all the connected being connected consciousness and that extra productivity you get will result in you helping others more effectively. You know, that's that's a real possibility, too. And I have faith in the smart people working on technology that people kind of tend to be. Negative about technology, but I I'm one of them and I work with a lot of them, the people who are best at creating new ideas, have they almost they almost always have good intentions, but that's not enough.

They very often are good at doing good for the world like.

So I have hope that the best people creating this technology at NewLink, certainly the people I interact with, are going to be aware of the negatives and are going to work their ass off to to make a better world. One of the most impressive things to me about new people say like negative Southbury on so on. One of most impressive things about NewLink and the people I've interacted with at Tesla and all these companies is like there's a passion in their eyes.

These are some of the best people in the world at just being kids and loving what they do.

It's hard to put into words, but when you see that, like that's what I see with you with comedy, like I don't know what the fuck, I don't know about comedy.

I'm just a spectator. But there's joy that I love seeing people who are good at what they do and love what they do and just losing themselves in it.

I have faith that when you give those people the power to do what they want to do, that it'll create a better world.

And that's what Elon is is doing. And that's what I wish more companies and groups were doing that I wish the U.S. government would do that.

More of like have leaders that attract that, those weird, passionate people that are like just have this fire in their eyes that I remember like the early days of Tesla with the first Gigafactory opening, I happened to be there, like, because I'd give a talk and I just like it was like three at night.

And the people working there at the factory in the middle of the desert, the excitement in their eyes was like like, you know, these ladies that like they look like they haven't slept for days.

But there was just this, like, glimmer of just love what they do.

And now I was like, that gives me faith that these people if these people are building our future, they're going to do a pretty good job.

Beautiful. What can I can I say one thing, sir? OK. It's a poem thing. A lot of people ask me to sing again because of my sexy voice.

No, they didn't. Nobody.

Nobody. My mom was like even my mom didn't say maybe maybe that second song, maybe, maybe maybe play piano or something.

No, I just want to say, because we're talking about love, um, I. My grandmother passed away. Just just several days ago and form for me. OK, everybody's different, but for me, she basically she was one of the key people in my life that raised me, she is responsible for much, let's say, much of the good that I am.

So she lived through. God, the oil in the in the early 30s, I'm not sure if you're familiar with it. Most people think about the Holocaust of the atrocity of the 20th century, but gotta go.

The modern Ukraine was when. Basically, because of the decisions that Stalin made, millions of people starved their stories, that's for another time if you want to really hear about it as Jordan Peerson about it.

Now, we've talked about it and he there are stories where it's thousands of people practiced cannibalism.

They eat their children.

So this is what this just to give you a context of what starvation does to the human human beings.

Right. So she lived through that.

She lived through World War Two, this beautiful teenage girl, woman in Nazi occupied city.

So all of that. And she never talked about it.

This is the she's she was she was a bad motherfucker.

And she just she was the person that inspired me to be strong and a person that also to to put love out there because, like, there's she loved her husband, passed away in the 80s, but it was always radiated this like deep love for other human beings.

That was forever.

Like the thing the reason I talk about love a lot is she made it OK for me, much like my dad started to go on tangents.

But like my dad is this witty Jew who never who's afraid to say anything now he's kind of like Eric Weinstein. He's like brilliant. He says stuff that's really interesting and clever.

My grandmother taught me that sometimes it's OK to say the cliche, simple thing.

You don't always have to be super intelligent, super interesting, super complicated and eloquent. You could just say you can just talk about love and talk simply, even if it's a cliched thing. So I don't know. I she was and I just wanted to say in this podcast that she's I miss her and she's the reason for any good that I am.

She's she's highly responsible for that. So no. I miss you, I love you. Thank you, Joe. My grandma Janet know I don't know if there's a poem I wanted, but, you know, I want to do it, you know, it's so there's a bunch of Russian poems that I think I shouldn't.

But I the the poem if by Kipling.

OK, I'd love to read it. OK, the minute. OK, stop fucking with that.

I fuck you. I'm nervous man.

I like to read a poem in front of millions of people and I'm speaking for the woman that probably is looking down and shaking her head like what are you doing, drink vodka.

Shut the hell up if you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs and blaming it on you.

If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you, but make allowance for their doubting, too, if you can wait and not be tired by waiting or being lied about, don't deal in lies or being hated. Don't give way to hating and yet don't look too good. No, talk to us if you can dream and not make dreams your master. If you can think and not make thoughts your aim. If you can meet with triumph and disaster and treat those two impostors just the same.

If you can bear to hear the truth, you've spoken twisted by knaves, they make a trap for fools or watch the things you gave your life to broken and stoop and build them up with worn out tools. You can make one heap of all your winnings and risk it on one turn of pitch and toss and lose and start again at your beginnings and never breathe a word about your loss if you can force your heart and nerve and sinew to serve your turn long after they're gone.

And so hold on when there's nothing in you except the will which says to them, hold on. If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue or walk with kings. Now lose the common touch if neither foe's nor loving friends can hurt you if all men come with you, but none too much.

If you can fill the unforgiving minute with 60 seconds worth of distance run, yours is the earth and everything that's in it. And which is more. You'll be a man, my grandson. Thanks, Joe. Thank you. Bye, everybody. Thank you, friends, for tune in to the show and thank you to Liquid Ivy, my favorite hydration drink and now my favorite energy drink, Liquid Ivy is available nationwide at Costco. Or you can get 25 percent off when you go to liquid ivy dotcom and use the code.

Joe Rogan at checkout. That's one word. Joe Rogan, that's 25 percent off anything you order when you use a promo code. Joe Rogan with no space at Liquid Ivy Dotcom. Start fueling your adventures today at Liquid Ivy Dotcom promo code. Joe Rogan were also brought to you by zip recruiter. You can try zip recruiter for free zip recruiter is so effective that four out of five employers who post on zip recruiter get a quality candidate within the first day and you can try it for free.

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