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Joe Rogan podcast.


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The Joe Rogan experience. Train by day. Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. Did you see Hochul? What? She said that young black kids don't know what a computer is. Did you see her say that?


No, I didn't see that.


Oh, my God. And all these dudes did these hilarious videos where these young black guys, like, got around a computer and they stared at it and bit it.


There's like a. It's like an age thing, too. Cause that, that used to kind of be the line that, like, liberals would say, you know, the problem with black kids is they just don't have any role models. They've never been exposed to this, but that's just totally not true anymore. And sometimes now. Cause they're from a different generation, they'll still say that. And you're like, are you? Have you been around black people lately?


Saying young, poor black kids don't know what a computer is, is so crazy.


They'Ve got one in their pocket.


It's such a dumb thing to say. It's amazing that you could say something like that and be the governor of a major state. Don't even know what the word computer is.


Oh, they don't. They're not even familiar with the term.


They don't know these things. Like, is she doing a survey? Ma'am, where did you get this data?


Well, this is why Malcolm X said that there's nothing more racist than a white liberal. Yes, because of shit like this.


Well, they're weak. Weak people are dangerous. Weak people that don't like strength are dangerous. They're dangerous because they want to suppress everything. That's what's spooky about it. Weak people scare the shit out of me more than even, like totalitarians do sometimes because they eventually become totalitarian. You know, it's like the bullied become the bullies. They want payback. But it's just that weak liberal men are, to me, they're so detestable. The weak ones. I mean, there's some intelligent, brilliant liberal men. They just. That's their philosophy. And I think if you're not exposed to the pitfalls of liberalism, if you don't see what happens to your state when those policies get enacted, specifically when things go south, if everything was going great, like, no one gave a shit who the mayor of Los Angeles was in 2015, because everything was great. It was like there was no problems. Obama was president. The economy was doing good. We weren't at war, really kind of. We weren't affecting us right.


Well, there's something on that topic of, like, the weakness of modern liberals. Because I was in, like, late last year, I was in San Diego, and I haven't been to, I mean, I've been to LA a couple times, but much less than I used to go. Like, when you were out there, and I haven't been to San Francisco in years, but I was in San Diego. And it's like, you know, you've been there. It's like a beautiful city downtown. And where we were, it was a great comedy club. The american comedy company down there. No, I'm.


Great club.


Great club. Love that place. And I'm like, downtown. And we're going to, me and my buddy Rob Bernstein, very funny comedian, who's with me on the trip, we're, like, walking around great restaurants, really nice little dinner, but then there's just blocks that are taken over by these homeless encampments. And right next to them, it's like all these young professionals and these nice restaurants in this nice city. And I was just thinking about that, like, how are all of the men here so weak that they won't just kind of, like, put their foot down and be like, hey, no, we're not gonna put up with this. Like, we're not just, it's almost like this, like, niceness has taken over to the point that you can't even defend this cool city that you have here. And I'm not saying, like, bash the homeless people with clubs or anything like that. I'm just saying, like, why are you allowing this to happen? And it is like, a profound weakness that, well, we'd feel like bad people if we were to say, we don't want junkies covered in shit right next to our outdoor dining. And you're like, no, that would just be reasonable.


Well, what they need is a reasonable plan to help these people. If you really care, if you really care, you got to do something. Like, you can't just let them exist everywhere. And then in San Francisco, the most recent bizarre one is they're going to give them alcohol. They're going to give money and alcohol. What is it? Are they giving them actual booze or are they giving them money to buy booze? Help me out with this one, because it's just so San Francisco. San Francisco is amazing. I lived there in the seventies. I lived there during the Vietnam war when I was a little kid. It was incredible. It was weird. I'm sure it shaped, it shaped the way I view things, because, like, if I had grown up in, like, a very conservative environment with, like, my sensibilities, like, my hard work ethic and my belief that, you know, you get very fortunate in life in, like, how you're gifted. Things like how you get lucky. Like, if you're beautiful, for instance. If you're a beautiful woman or man, you're what? A roll of the dice? Good Lord. Good Lord. Did you kill it in the fucking genetic lottery?


I mean, you can't do anything about that. You can't earn that. You can't go out and get beauty, you know? But after that, whatever hand you. You've given, you've been given. A lot of it is on you. A lot of it is on you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Terrible things happen to people. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Violence happens. Crime happens. Disease happens. Yes, 100%. Misfortune happens, 100%. We're all. Anyone listening to this right now is lucky. You can hear, okay, there's people that can't hear, right? But put that aside, and there's a factor that we need to take into consideration. That factor is discipline. That factor is hard work. That factor is focus. And we should cherish that. And we shouldn't think of it only as negative because it always, people always think it manifests itself in greed and in callous disregard for other people's lives. But that's not necessarily true. They're not mutually exclusive. Like, you can have discipline to be a kind person and be a compassionate person and be a liberal person. But so often liberals in this country, they do not want to take that into consideration. That discipline is a factor. Conservatives always value discipline.


They value hard work. That's why when they want to sell shit to those people, what do they do? They show a guy on a farm cracking open a beer, a guy who's just been working his fucking ass off for 10 hours a day, cracking up. Here. Around here, it's all just about hard work. And the guy just throwing back a cold one, you know? I mean, that's what they're selling you. They're selling you hard work. They're not selling you. This poor farmer who's born into a farming life, and it's not equitable or fair. Why, there's billionaires out there just make money trading money, and it's bullshit. And we need to distribute wealth and, like. No, no, that's not the answer either, stupid. That's not the answer. But you do need programs to get these people out of homelessness. And you can't just encourage them to keep doing it. It's bad for them. It's bad for you. It's bad for the city. It's bad for property values. It's bad for everything.


Yep. I couldn't agree more.


San Francisco gives actual alcohol.


We're not talking rubbing alcohol here, right? They're talking, like, oh, they're so good.


They're so good, they spit. But these are the old hippies. They're still there. They're wearing masks right now while they're listening to this screaming. No, no, no. They're all lost.


See, the. Like, to your point, it's like a. Look, it'd be ridiculous if someone just completely dismissed the first part of what you were saying, like, that there are some fortune things that. Fortune, luck. You know, we all didn't get leukemia as little kids and died.


He had shot in a drive by as a little kid.


And also, there are just parts of the world. Like, a lot of what you're saying really applies to, like, first world, advanced countries. You could be in a country that's just a war torn third world country, and you're screwed no matter what you do. But. So it'd be silly to dismiss that. But it's also equally ridiculous to dismiss the other aspect to it. Like, okay, there are. Every person, every single person who's successful has conquered self pity. Cause, like, everybody's had points in their lives where they've just felt really bad for themselves. We've all had it. We all do it.


It's a part of human nature.


That's right. But it's also poison. And anybody who's successful has learned how to conquer that. And not just sit here and feel bad for yourself and to say, nope, I'm gonna take control of this. No matter what happened to me, I'm gonna not focus on that. I'm gonna focus on what I can control. And the problem is that, on either side, if you dismiss one of them, you come to really stupid conclusions.


100%. And it's not lost on me, the irony of two rich white guys, one of them smoking a cigar, talking about this.


I would say I'm climbing my way toward there. I don't know. By global standards. Sure, bro.


You're fucking killing it.


By global standards, I'm on Elon Musk level.


That's poor compared to Elon.


That is true. You are broke.


I'm so broke.


Do you think he laughs about you, like, when you're not there?


He's like, you poor little bastard.


I got Rogan coming over to the house. Put away the good china. Oh, God. The Rogans are coming.


There's levels of people. I'm friends now. This is a bizarre thing to say with multiple billionaires. Yeah, I know multiple guys that are billionaires, and they're very nice people. They're very nice. And I could see how it happens.


But you're also friends with the cool billionaires.




You know, like, you managed to find the cool ones.


Well, Elon's the coolest. He's my favorite billionaire. That. That dude's wild. He's a wild boy. I will buy Teslas as long as they sell them just to support that dude.


Just to. Just to keep Twitter going.


They're dope, but, yeah, just to support him. And you, God damn it, you need an Elon musk in this world. You need a wild boy. You need $200 billion. Who dunks on people, dude.


How great was watching him realize, and realize time, how stupid Don Lemon is?


Oh, my God.


You could actually see on his face as he's asking the questions, and he's like, well, if you lower standards, then you're gonna get more incompetence. And Don Lemon's like, so you're saying black people aren't competent? And he's like, no, it's not. And he slowly starts to realize, like, oh, I have 80 iq points on this guy.


It's not just that. He said a very important point. He said that Don Lemon was doing CNN outside of CNN. And you don't have to do that. You just don't. Nobody wants that anymore.


I'd say you can't do that. It's not gonna work.


It's not gonna work. But more importantly, you shouldn't do it because it's not good for you. Just be a human. Don't be this thing, this journalistic, probing bullshit thing that's trying to spin a narrative. Actually have a conversation with this human. You will probably agree with a lot of the things he says. You will understand his perspective even if you disagree. You could see how an intelligent person would come to this conclusion. This is how we can talk to each other now. We don't have to be confined by these five minute segments where you have producers and executives that are pushing an agenda that's on a network that's run by a bunch of huge fucking corporations that have a vested interest in swaying the narrative one way or the other. You don't have to do that anymore. Yeah, that's not necess. It's bad for people. It's bad for humanity. It's a bad way to distribute information. It is literal propaganda, whether you think it is or not.


Oh, dude. I mean, I've even. I mean, I've done, like, a fair amount of, like, cable news shows, and, you know, they'll do these things where it's like a panel, and there'll be, like, three people on the panel and the person hosting the show. And nothing against, like, there's some people who I really like, who I've been on their shows, but it's like you're trying to talk about the most important topics, and everyone gets 20 seconds. It's so ridiculous.


I want you to imagine a scenario. Imagine the scenario where Covid breaks out, and for whatever reason, the mainstream media is saying that we should be very careful about experimental drugs. And they start. These journalists start bringing up all these stories about different drugs where you could see how they chose very specific tests and that some of their tests, some of their studies didn't go well at all, and they buried those, and they're allowed to do so. And about how they've killed thousands and thousands of people with these drugs they knew were bad for them. And if the journalists were saying this but the podcasters were all going, you need to trust the science. Everyone should be vaccinated. Be vaccinated or you're a fucking plague rat. Imagine. Imagine if the podcasters were calling the unvaccinated plague rats. Imagine if the podcasters were encouraging medical misinformation. But my point is, imagine the backlash right now, where there's none coming their way. Yeah, there's zero. It's like everyone forgot about it. It all went away.


Well, I'm debating. We would be in jail. I'll be debating Chris Cuomo in a few days, so that'll be fun. But we would be.


We would be in jail. All these people that are dropping dead, all these people with strokes, all these people with heart attacks, all these people with. What was the AstraZeneca thing that I sent you today?


Yeah. Yeah. What was that?


AstraZeneca. They were saying that 11% of the people had an adverse side effect.


Like, serious, serious side effects. Yeah. But even as you lay out this scenario, doesn't it almost in some way be like, it feels like that makes more sense? What would make more sense was that comedians like me and you would have just been saying the dumb thing and repeating it. But the person in a suit and tie at CNN, I mean, this dude's a professional newsman. Like, he knows what's going on.


They would make a very good argument for ending podcasts.




They'd make a very good argument for prosecuting people, class action lawsuits, all the people that encourage these podcasters with their limited. You don't even have a medical degree, and you're on the Internet telling people what to do, which is exactly what they did.


They did. Even though we were getting everything right. And now most of them will admit that we were right.


Now, when you see Kris Kromos and Patrick Bette, David spinning it, listen, I.


Don'T want to go too hard right now. Cause I want him to show up. But the fact that. The fact that. And I will make sure to bring this up to him. But the fact that what he said, and if you listen to it, he literally goes. As he's explaining that he is on Ivermectin, he goes, now, a lot of people are gonna say, Joe Rogan is right. And then he has a moment where he pauses, realizes he can't even come up with anything, and he goes, all right, Joe Rogan was right. And then goes on to say exactly what you've been saying for years now, that just the most basic thing that anyone who did five minutes of research could have figured out, which there's no controversy in any of this, that Ivermectin has been given to humans billions of times, that it's a safe drug and that there were some indications that it might help with COVID and that it's not horse Dewormer, but the fact that that's not attached to, like, a profuse apology be like, hey, I'm like, if I couldn't imagine a scenario where I had, like, viciously smeared someone for something, then realized he was 100% right and I was 100% wrong, and when acknowledging that, I wouldn't also go, hey, I'm really sorry about that, dude.


I think there's a cult, like, thinking in mainstream media, whether they know they're being influenced by their sponsors or they're not, but I don't even think they understand how crazy it is. When I had Sanjay Gupta on. Sanjay Gupta is a very nice man. I think he's a good man. I really do. And he's a surgeon. I mean, he's very busy. The guy is constantly working, and he comes in to give medical information and give this, you know, lay things out for CNN. And I think he thinks he's doing the right thing. When they asked him to be on the podcast, I don't know what they thought was gonna happen. I don't think they. I think they thought they were right. I really do.


I think my guess, and this is just a guess, but I have been in that world a little bit. Like, I worked for CNN for a year and I've done a lot of shows on Fox News and I've met a lot of people, you know, and talked to a lot of people who work at CNN and Fox News. And my guess on it is that, number one, he had a book, so they want to sell copies of the book. And they know you have the biggest show. And so they're like, oh, this will be really good. And then I also think there's this thing where they all, yeah, they all really do feel like we're the experts. And they know they're the experts because, I mean, I just got off the phone with, you know, the chief of staff of the White House. And I know that, you know, they're very into that kind of like, that world where I've talked to everyone with status and I think there's hubris involved where they're like, you'll be able to handle whatever a comedian throws at you. Like, you're a medical expert and he's not. But then you would just ask really basic questions, which my favorite was when he goes, so are you going to get the vaccine?


And you were like, well, no, I just had Covid, I have natural immunity. And you were like, why should I get the vaccine? And he had no answer. And this was at a time when they were rolling out vaccine passports and he, he just dem. The whole line was just, you have to get the vaccine or you're a bad person. This is a pandemic of the unvaccinated. And then he just demonstrated on your show that there was this huge category of people, people who have had Covid already who he had no argument for why they should get the thing.


Not only that, there had already been research. It showed that natural immunity from previous infection was up to seven times better at preventing new cases of cancer, which.


Is consistent across viruses. Like, it's always better to have natural immunity. The vaccine is always trying to simulate natural disorders.


This is what was so fucked. Look, I'm no scholar. I'm not a smart guy. I'm a normal person. There's nothing special about my brain. And I'm seeing all this stuff and I'm like, why isn't anybody speaking? I started to feel like I was going crazy. Like, am I going crazy for not just letting them shoot me up with this stuff after I got Covid? Just so I let everybody know I'm on the team, right? Because there's this poll. There's a fucking societal poll. That even me. Even me who was like, this is. I know this is ridiculous. This makes all the people I've talked to, all the research I've done on previous diseases, and my research is reading other people's I'm doing. It's a bad word.




All the reading that I've done. Jimmy. Jimmy Dore has a great bit about.


So funny about don't do your own.


Research used to be called reading. Jimmy Dore's awesome. I love him.


Love Jimmy doar. That's a great bet.


In my limited looking at this, I was like, something's wrong here. There's this mass societal push. People are. They're trapped in like a mind virus of this one particular solution. And Doctor Robert Malone laid what that is like psychologically, what happens when one thing is offered that seems to be the solution out of this existential crisis, this horrible situation that we're in, and anybody who opposes that, opposes getting out. And you gotta be on that side all in. And you gotta believe even in the pharmaceutical drug companies.


And like, there's this weird, you know. Cause we're weird social psychological creatures. And, you know, if you think about, like, the Milgram experiments and what people will do if there's a person in a white coat telling them to do it. And part of like, the culture, the.


Milgram thing, people don't know.


So the experiment was kind of like, basically they come in and they're like, okay, you're here for some type of scientific experiment. I forget exactly how they describe it to them, but they're testing negative reinforcement within learning or something like that. And so they have a guy in a white coat, and he tells you every time a guy gets an answer wrong or something like this, you're supposed to push the button and it zaps him. And they keep pushing the button. And the person, you can't see them, but they're like behind a wall or something, keeps hollering in pain, and it gets worse and worse and worse. And for the experiment, I think there were a few people who refused after a while, but the overwhelming majority of people would keep zapping them until they seemingly died. Cause they stopped hollering in pain. And then they would tell him to do it again, and they would just keep doing it because there's like an authority figure here, and this guy's got a white coat on. And they kind of, in these corporate media environments. And I don't want to discount, I'm not discounting the conspiracy aspect of this, because I also think there are people within these agencies who are straight up, like, intelligence assets and know exactly what they're doing.


But I think for the most part, it's like they create this culture of, like, well, all the wise people who, by the way, you get to go to a cocktail party with this really, like, this guy with all this status, and he is the leading expert in this. And they all say this. So are you a respectable person or are you like an outcast who doesn't agree with this conventional wisdom? And people fall in line with that shit, man.


They fall in line with it.


They really do. Even people who really, really should know better.


Yeah, but it's become socially, their group, too. And then you get influenced by the group socially.


Well, this is one of the things I'm really interested to talk to Chris Cuomo about. And by the way, that's on Patrick Bette David's show on the 31st. But you know, these guys, I'm kind of fascinated by the people in the corporate press, as much contempt as I have for them, because it's amazing to be working. You're working in this industry where, okay, before COVID the corporate media had the lowest approval numbers since they've been keeping track of them. Trusted media had evaporated.


It was the war with Donald Trump. That's really what it was. Social media was all controlled by the left wing media, and the left wing media was all in on this war against Donald Trump.


That's a huge part of it. I mean, I would say the backdrop is the war on terror, the terror wars, getting all of that wrong, the financial crisis, not seeing that coming, and kind of getting weapons destruction. Yeah, that's all that stuff. Iraq and Afghanistan being disasters. So that's kind of in the backdrop. And then you have the worst financial crisis in 100 years. So that happened. But then there's no question, I mean, and particularly not just the war with Donald Trump, but particularly the allegation of a conspiracy with Russia that they said every single day, all day, for three years long. I mean, if you think about it, it's the big if. True. It's the biggest news story in the history of the United States of America. They're claiming that the current sitting president is guilty of treason. He was installed by a hostile foreign power who overthrew our elections in order to install him. It was quite a claim to run with twenty four seven and then to find out after three years that we have nothing. Not like there's nothing, no evidence pointing toward this conspiracy even existing so that their, their trust had already evaporated.


But then after Covid.


But people will still never recover and argue this. They'll still say there's evidence, still want to. They still want to say there's evidence.


Not only is it say it, there's not even evidence that Vladimir Putin interfered in the 2016 election. The best they have is, like, there are some bot farms that they can trace to russian IP addresses, which is like, I'm not a tech guy, Jamie. You know this better than me, but they say it's the easiest thing to fake is an IP address. The fact that an IP address traces to Russia is, like, almost more indicative that someone's trying to frame Russia than it is that Russia was involved. But even the guys who they got.


Imagine if we found out. Imagine if we found out that the russian troll farms were, like, completely insignificant and so just, like, government controlled troll farms.


Well, I mean, look, even if they were all from Vladimir Putin, they were fairly insignificant in terms of, like, interfering in elections with other culture, with other countries and how it works.


Strategy was funny, memes.


Yeah, yeah.


I mean, it really was a very effective strategy because it makes some. When you mock something, it makes it much more easy to dismiss that in terms of whether or not, like, that's the right choice for president. If someone can, like, openly mock. Why do you think they openly mock Donald Trump's? They even made stuff up, like, about his hand size.




Remember there was this thing that he had little hands. Dude, I was shaking his hands. He's got normal fucking hands.


It's been confirmed. He's a big guy.


Like, he's. He's got a big hand. I was like, this is the mo. I remember the first time I shook his hands. Like, this is the most ridiculous thing. Well, look, that everybody said he has little hands.


Mocking people is a powerful tool, dude. It's a very.


It's a crazy one because you're mocking something that someone can't change. This is always against. That's against left wing ideology.


Not when it serves the purposes right.


But that's the thing, right? Just like, you're willing to violate the rules for your side to win because progressives have always supposed to be against body shaming. You're supposed to be kind. You're supposed to not mock a person's appearance. Why would you do especially, like, what they're born with, the hand size and the dick size? Like, really? That's okay to mock?


Dude, there was a segment. I remember watching this. It was in the 2016 election, and it was on Joy Reid's show on MSNBC. Her show at the time, whatever it was, and she had a whole segment about how sexist the coverage of Hillary Clinton was. And it was, you know, every time they'll say she's shrill or she's this, but if a man was like that, it'd be this. And she went through all these words that have been used to cover Hillary Clinton and how they're loaded, sexist phrases and all this. And then at the end of her show, she has this segment called who won the week? And all the guests on the panel get to pick their own, like, what happened this week? And her choice, not one of the people on the panel, her choice of who won the week was this guy in Union Square who made a naked statue of Donald Trump with a micropenis and was just like, literally, like, just making a thing, like, aha, he's got a little dick. And after literally, her last segment was on the sexist coverage of Hillary Clinton. And then her next pick for who won the week was a guy mocking Trump for having a micropenis that he just made up and made a statue of.


And she did not even, like, seem to see the contradiction in any of that.


Like, you just said this, it's beautiful. It's fun. It's fun. It's fun to watch. I'm glad those people exist. They're fun. They're fun to watch because they're so ridiculous and they're so fake, and it comes off. It's obvious that they're not, they're not really engaged, they're not really talking about it like a human. They're just propagandist. And that's the only way you can do that job. If you want to do that job, you have to be a propagandist or you have to be some sort of straight face Jake Tapper dude who just kind of like straight faces everything. But if you want, you know, you want to have the Joy Reid show.


Yeah, you gotta go. You gotta go for it.


You wanna have joy Reid things. What was that one? She got in some bizarre argument with some woman recently. I think it was a transgender issue. Was that what it was, Jamie, where it was like, it went viral? Because, like, I forget what the debate was about, but I remember it being just a preposterous argument, the way she was looking at it.


Yeah, she's pretty out there. I'm not sure which, what a segment you're referring to, but she's got a whole lot, but it's a whole lot of great hits.


It's not yeah, it's like you have to be on that network. Like, you can't exist in the podcast world. Yeah. What is it? Absurd argument. Republicans vote on race night. No, that's not it. No, I should have saved it. I probably did save it. Somewhere on my phone I could find it. But it's just these. It was. I believe it was some sort of a trans issue, if I'm correct. But it's just these fucking people on these shows are trapped. You're trapped. You're trapped in this world of five minutes. You're trapped in this world of commercials. You're trapped in this world of networks and executives. You're trapped. And if you want to make it, you gotta be full of shit. Yeah, you gotta be full of shit. That's the gig.


And it's just like, you point this out all the time, but it's so. It's just not enough time to have a real conversation on any of these shows. Dude, I did a debate for zero hedge a couple months ago on the Israel Gaza conflict, and it was a two on two debate, and it was 2 hours long. And the only thing I could think at the end of it was that just wasn't nearly enough time. It's like 2 hours. You get, like a half hour, roughly not. I don't know exactly if we all spoke even time, but roughly a half hour each. That's not nearly enough to go through, like, the history of all this shit and what's going on now and to really make your points. And that's a two hour debate. They'll do that same segment on the news in ten minutes. Five minutes. This is insane.


It's insanity.


You're just trying to hit whatever the best point you can hit is. And in the same way that Twitter. I mean, now you could, like, post longer stuff. You know what? Twitter, just because it's short, it just, like, pushes you into, like, saying just whatever. Just can destroy that guy in one sentence. It's like. It pushes you into that. It's just not.


It's headlines.


Yeah. That's all you can do.


And when you're dealing with something like this, just the depth of it all is just so perplexing. You know, when you just lay out, like, when Mike Baker's on, and he lays out the history of, like, Palestine and Israel and the conflicts in Egypt and this and that and Hamas and Hezbollah, and he lays it all. You're like, jesus Christ, there's so many layers to this fucking cake.




And most people are just getting free Palestine from the river to the sea. Yay. You know, you're just getting these, like, slogans that you yell out and you're seeing. Who knows how much of what you're seeing is even real today.


Well, you mean, like, with the protests? The footage.


The footage. Footage of things, even footage of, like, people fake things now, and they fake things specifically for propaganda, and then they hide things. One of the most terrifying I saw recently was one of the israeli hostages. She was in the back of a jeep, and they drag her out by her hair, and she's got blood all over her. And they had hacked her heels to make sure she couldn't run. Bro. It's so terrifying. It's so. And they're all screaming, God is great. Allah walk by.


Yeah, dude, I know. I think there's a thing. I don't know if I could word this exactly right, but I think there's, for some reason, I think comedians have this thing that they're kind of able to go to these places. Do you remember, you remember when you had Bill Burr on your show and you played this video? I don't know why. I just loved this moment so much. But you played this video of a dude, like, ripping something out of a little girl's hand, and it was something like the guy, like, she had a piece of paper or something, and he wanted. He was way aggressive.


I think it was a protest.


Yeah, it was like a grown man going up to a little girl and ripping it out. And you, like, immediately you were like, oh, man, that'd be real bad. If that was my kid, I'd be in jail the next day or that. And then Burr was like, he was like, oh, you went to a dark place there. And you were like, yeah, I do that a lot. I do that all the time, too. There's just something about, like, comedians, for whatever reason, do that.


Well, also parents.


Yeah, well, that particularly. But I just. It's just very easy for me. I don't know why. This always just came very natural to me. Whereas I think some people have so much trouble with this, but it's very easy for me to do this on both sides of this conflict to just go, okay, like, I got two little kids. I could just start to imagine if somebody did something in one of my little kids and I wasn't able to protect them and what I'd be willing to do, like, how dark a place I could go to. And it's just, like, immediately very easy to me to see how anyone in Israel after October 7 would support fucking flatten Gaza and how anyone in Palestine after what's going on the last 50 years, there would be like, yeah, I'll sign up for Hamas. I'll support these guys who are going to do this shit. Now, I do think. And this is the point that both sides.


Both sides are sure. Which is really what's the most scary thing about the conflict.


Sure. Well, and that's why it's gotten to such a bad point, right? Because, like, this is the cycle that keeps going. But I do think this is what Darryl Cooper, who, like, I brought him up last time I was on. He has that fantastic series called the fear and loathing in the New Jerusalem, and he's just totally brilliant. I love that guy. But he said, and I think this is right, is that he's like, okay, so you can totally see where if you're on either side there, you'd just be like, I don't care. I see red. I want to kill as many of the other side as I can. But for us as Americans who are not in that situation, it's kind of incumbent on us to be like, okay, let's try to kind of have a sober analysis of this and not do what so many people seem to do, which is, like, almost try to just, like, egg on the other side and cheer on their side. And then this total, like, demonization of either all of the Palestinians. Like, they're all just human garbage or all Jews are whatever, evil young kids.


In America who are jewish or complicit. There's somehow another response, which is, like, totally ridiculous. Jerry Seinfeld, they're heckling at his shows now. There's, like, some organized protests that came to his show, and they were screaming out in the middle of his show.


It's also just like, guys, like, take it. Look, like, I understand wanting to protest this war. I got my issues with the young college leftists who are protesting it. They're not my people, exactly. But, like, you know, there's an israeli embassy here. There's a congress. There's like, take it at least to the halls of power. Like, I don't think Jerry ruining, you know, like, other people's ability to enjoy Seinfeld stand up show is really gonna.


Solve the issue because they're not really thinking, well, most of these people that do this, they come from wealthy families. They're young, really idealistic kids, and they glue themselves to paintings and they throw fucking soup at masterpieces. Did you see the one stop oil? Now person sliced up this fucking painting from the 18 hundreds some priceless painting. Just pulled out a razor knife and just started slashing this thing up.


Isn't it weird if sometimes it feels like they're like each side's foot soldiers are working for the other side? You know what I mean? Like, when you do stuff like that, you're almost like, I just want to drill for more oil now.


Well, this is the problem with teams, man. There's a problem with teams. If you have a team that anybody can join, like, if the Republicans are basically like, the Christians, they'll take anybody. Anybody. You know, if you want to be a jew, you got to go to work, okay? You got to learn a bunch of shit. My uncle converted.


They make you work. A lot of work.


You got to fucking learn some stuff. I remember I was doing this episode of Joe Rogan questions everything, where I was talking to religious people of a bunch of different religious sects and religious scholars, and I was talking to this one guy who was a rabbi, and there was a woman there that was converting to Judaism, and I got to ask her questions about how she's doing it and how hard it is. It's fucking. It's like getting your pilot's license or something. It's a lot of fucking shit. You got to remember.


It's like the way citizenship is where when you're born jewish, like I am, or born an american like I am, and you're like, oh, man, I couldn't have passed that test. It's a good thing I was born into this test.


Fucking test.


Yeah, they really. They make you work.


Well, I think the jewish one's harder than the american one.


Yeah, probably.


But the american, well, these days, you.


Could just walk in. But if you don't, citizenship.


If you don't walk in, then if you fly in from Europe, they're like, uh, uh, you flew first class, which is. We're gonna make it really hard for you to become a citizen, dude.


Which is, by the way, it sums up everything about modern day America. Anarcho, tyranny. Yeah, it's just there's kind of like. It's like you live. You have the worst of anarchism and tyranny all in one, where if you follow the rules, you get totally fucked. And if you just ignore the rules, you get rewarded, the worst incentives, and.


Everybody wants to be on a team. So if you have a team that's open to anybody, you're going to get the dumbest fucking people that are super enthusiastic about that team, and they're going to ruin everything. And they do with everything. Do it on the right and they do it on the left.


That's why I say my message is, always reject the teams and come be a libertarian and lose with me. Just keep losing. Come and just enjoy losing. There's something freeing about knowing you're not going to win.


They're the most reasonable people I talk to politically. Yeah, but it's also like. But it's also the system is so deep, like, you ain't getting in.


Well, that's the real question. I mean, there's almost like two. Figuring out what the solution is is almost the easy part and then actually figuring out how to implement it. They have to land.


Literally have to land. Maybe you're right enough, because we're, like, on our way to a kingship.


We're on our AI just has to be like, listen, we read all of the books in human history and we figured this out pretty quickly.


That might be the thing that saves us and ruins us at the same time. It's President AI.


President AI.


President AI will be logical, and if it's on the blockchain, we'll know exactly if President AI is being influenced by money.


Wouldn't it be great if AI just turns out to be as human as us and is just corrupted and they're like, President AI got a blowjob in the Oval Office and the power went to his head.


He just started making AI whores.


He's got to give a press conference. He's like, I don't know what I was thinking, man. I was pretty good until I got in there. The ring of power just ruins everyone.


We are going to bypass biological needs and we're going to do it pretty soon. It's going to be real soon. It's going to sex. Regular sex is gonna seem ridiculous in 20 years.


We're gonna be the, like, old school guys. I still do sex the old fashioned way with my wife.


High school, we got hand jobs. These kids are fucking robots, even. They're six people.


You're gonna be like, you have sex with your wife? That's insane, dude.


How you doing that? What if you guys get diseased? People die from those diseases?


I do think, like, I mean, I look obviously, like I'm. I'm biased on the. Like, I have my own opinions on these things, but I do just think that one of the things that I've found kind of amazing, and I've thought this with some of the people who have come on your show since last time I was here, is the way that people can defend what Israel's doing in Gaza does kind of blow my mind.


It blows my mind, too, because it.


Reminds you that it's like. You're like, oh, okay, look, throughout all of human history, right, I'm not saying there's anything unique to Israel. Like, they're the only ones to ever commit atrocities or that they're not dealing with atrocities committed to them.


Super standard world wars in terms of, like, Dresden.


Well, yes, but that's the thing. If you compare it to the worst things that have ever happened in the history of the world. But I'm just saying, throughout all of human history, there's been atrocities and there's been genocides and ethnic cleansing campaigns and slavery and all. But at every single point, there was someone there willing to rationalize it, you know, like someone there who would be like, no, no, no, listen. This is what we have to do. Because otherwise, this. And it's amazing the mental gymnastics that people can come up with to justify something that is so clearly, on its face, just horrific.


But I think the difference is, back then, your understanding of it was much more limited. You weren't watching videos on it. They didn't exist. If you saw it on television or on the movie theater, it'd be a small clip that was played, and it was played before the film. But everyone knew that the reason why we're here is because people went to war and won. Or you escaped a war ravaged country and you came to America. Everyone knew it. Everyone had an understanding of that. So when we were at war, people were signing up to go to war. There was no need to draft them. By the time Vietnam rolled around, people were starting to get more information and they go, hey, I think this is a bullshit war. Which is like the first time ever in this short history of our country where we're like, hey, this one sucks.


It was kind of. No defending it.


It was. And then when you find out they were right at the end of it all, when you find out many, many years later, the Gulf of Tonkin was a false flag, you're like, what?


Which they didn't even need in order to be right. But then you find out, you're like, oh, the whole thing was.


The whole thing. And then you go, what did you guys do with all that heroin money? Where did all that money go? Because if I was the government and I was willing. Just imagine if Eisenhower is correct, which is insane. How could he be? And that there was a real influence of military industrial complex. If I was a military industrial complex and I was willing to fucking start a war with North Vietnam for no fucking reason. For no reason. So 100%, I'm gonna kill x amount of people and a bunch of Americans. And then you're gonna actually make these people, these Americans, you're gonna draft them and force them to go because they don't want to go. You don't think I'd sell heroin?


Like that would be your line? Narcotic?


Hold on, how much are these guys making? Yeah, how much are these fucking dudes making? How much?




How many billions. This is of what percentage of the world's heroin supply? And then when you see the same trick played out in Afghanistan, when you like. My favorite was Geraldo Rivera interviewing the troops, rationalizing why they had.


Why they had to guard the.


We have to guard the heroin.




For the good folks.


Well, I couldn't. This heroin falls into the wrong hands, it could be lethal.


There's no way America would sell this heroin. Yeah, there's no way. The output of heroin out of Afghanistan, I want to say it was a 96% increase, 80% global.


So you're exaggerating, Joe. It's only 80%.


No, no, no. It was responsible for 80%.


Ooh. Yeah.


It was responsible for most of the global supply of heroin, and the production went up after we invaded. So. Opium poppy, which grows extensively in Afghanistan, southern fields, contains main opium ingredients used to manufacture heroin. Afghanistan was previously the world's top opium producer, responsible for over 80% of the global supply and a major source of heroin in Europe and Asia. So how much did it go? Oh, plunges by 95%. When was this? Under the Taliban? Now. That's now. Yeah, yeah. See, the Taliban doesn't want everybody on heroin. They want people to get back to work and make Afghanistan great again.


The Taliban just ran on a troll message.


They fucking kicked out the drug dealers. That's what happened. They kicked out the drug dealers. Dude, there was a giant part of the supply of heroin to the world. The idea that we didn't. Well, we are not interested in that at all. We just want to push freedom.


Yeah. And I think even people who are. Even the people, I think, who are lying about this shit, rationalize it in their own head.


Where'd that money go?


Yeah, well, that's a heroin. Well, I know you were. I was listening to the Mike Baker podcast you had on, where you were talking about the, like, the money in Ukraine and where it went. And he even. He was like, ah, yeah, no, we don't really know where that. I thought one of the funniest things about that, I'll tell you. Some of it goes, well, that's for sure. I think that's for sure.


The Taliban, it's not our tax dollars, have 100% paid for some cocaine. Oh, certainly the Taliban's successful opium ban is bad for Afghans and the world. The ban is not a counter narcotics victory and will have negative economic and humanitarian consequences, potentially leading to a refugee crisis, unlike us leaving in the middle of nowhere, allowing the Taliban to kill all the people we worked with.


But you get my point about how humans can rationalize anything. Like, they could just come up with propaganda.


That's what we're talking about.


Well, yes, of course that's propaganda. Yes, that's true. That's also true. But even people who are like. I mean, I. Like. Look, I thought the only way you.


Could say that, whether it made sense, is, if you're advocating that heroin should be legal, yes. If you're advocating that heroin should be legal, and this is your full perspective, okay, now, I'll accept it. But if you really think that heroin is a scourge, and if you really do appreciate that 100,000 people died last year of opioid overdoses, 100,000 is a real fucking crisis.




If there was a disease killing 100,000 people, we would freak the fuck out.


Well, look, I mean, I do think there's a strong argument for legalization, but there's also a difference between that and the government kind of like, sponsoring.


Damn. This has 90%. 90% of heroin globally and more than 95% of the european supply. More land is used for opiate in Afghanistan than is used for coca cultivation in Latin America. Bro, you don't think that has something to do with it? Is that. Am I silly?


No, I think it's insane to ignore that. I mean, like, come on, where does that money. Yeah, so I was gonna say Rand Paul. I thought this was so funny. It was during one of the rounds of aid to Ukraine, and Rand Paul stood up and said, look, we don't know where any of this money is going. If we're gonna send them this money, can we at least have an inspector general so that we itemize, like, where all the money is going? And it failed the vote?


Like, even in communist talk?


Yeah, like, even in the senate, they were like, what?


What are you talking about, communist talk?


We're gonna know where our money's going. Nah, that's lame. Yeah, we don't send it over there.


Just send them that shit. Send them everything they need and more. And then do you have one of their flags. You should wave it around.


Yeah, and we'll provide Congress. We'll provide flags.


They're all uniform, same size. It's not like people bought them from different vendors. No, they all got it from the same. They got a box of them. Hey, make sure you guys grab your flags. It's fucking bonkers.


It's also just so. The thing that's so wild to me is that after, and I know I've talked about this, I'm sure, on previous episodes, but just after 20 years of the terror wars and what a disaster those were, and to the point that everyone agrees, John McCain wrote in his memoir that the war in Iraq was a mistake. That's how universally agreed upon it is, which is that the war even John McCain would acknowledge. We got that one wrong. And it's not like anyone else is defending any of the other terror wars at this point. But then as soon as we kind of get out of them, we're not even fully out, but we're mostly out. We just get into these proxy wars in Ukraine and now in Israel that are clearly wars of choice for America. Like, we don't have to be involved in these. We're just still deciding to continue this war machine going.


Last two are really important. When they get done, we're done.


Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's right. This is it.


This is it.


Right. You know, it's. Anyway, man, I do. I will say that I think a lot of the defense of the war in Gaza, which I kind of feel we are even calling a war, because it's not. Doesn't exactly feel like that's what the term is.


Well, it's like the Bill Hicks joke. It's only a war when two armies are fighting.


Well, right.


Remember that joke he had vaguely about Iraq? They said, oh, Bill, Iraq is the fourth largest army. He goes, yeah, but after number three, there's a big drop off. He goes to Salvation Army's number five.


That's a great bet.


That's a great bet.


Well, I mean, look at some great bits of war, but in the case of Gaza, it's not even like there's not even a government. I mean, there are stateless people who have been captive by the Israelis since.


1967, and then they're captive politically in their own country by Hamas.




And then Hamas does do what this. This accusation is that they. They have their bases under schools and hospitals. They actually do do that.


Yeah. I think it's. It's certainly exaggerated at times by the Israelis, but there is no question that they are. Look, they're in this. Gaza is. Dude, it's 5 miles wide. I know.


It's crazy.


Gaza. You know, like, so little you could jog from one side to the other without taking a break.


It's literally.


I would take a break.


Way closer. Way smaller than here to my club.




Now imagine that. Imagine. Imagine, like, an extra 10 miles.




That small tract of land in the last 5 miles is what's getting the fuck blown out of it.


It is. It's. It's, I think, 25 by five. So it's like a marathon by a jog. You know what I mean? Like, that's how. That's Gaza.


It's so little.


No, look. So I'm just saying, part of this, and this isn't. I'm not, like, making any excuses. I mean, there's no question they have. There have been incidents of Hamas, like, embedding themselves in civilian locations. But also, it's not as if they have a military or a government. It's not as if there's going to be two armies that meet themselves on the battlefield here. There is one is Hamas is essentially a gang in an israeli prison that, like, rose up as the toughest gang there. And, yeah. In such a densely populated area, that's the way, as they call it, asymmetric warfare is gonna work. I do. Look, man. Cause I do. I took issue with, like, a few things that some of the guests you've had on recently have said, like, I know. I think all of this, a lot of times, it comes down to framing, like, how you wanna look at an issue, and particularly the people who are way behind Israel on this, I feel like, always rely on this very strange framing so they don't have to confront exactly what's going on, and they can kind of look at it in more of an abstract, removed way.


Like when you had a. I'm sorry if I'm saying his name wrong, but. Gad. Gad. How do you say his last name?




Salad. I've read his stuff before, but I don't. I always butcher names. But. So one of the things he said, which I know is I've heard this in every debate I've done on the topic so far, but he said the same thing Dennis Prager said to me when we debated, was he was like, well, look, if Israel laid down all their arms, there'd be a genocide. Hamas laid down all their arms, there'd be peace. And forget the fact that I will say, I don't agree with the second part of that. I don't think that's clear at all. I think if Hamas laid down all their arms, which essentially the Palestinians are as close to have laid down all.


Their arms as could be looking at it too binary, like, well, yeah, even if you're, even if you are supporting the Israelis, even if you're from that position, you have to acknowledge the attacks on AidS workers. Like, it seems to be. There's a bunch of targeted attacks on people bringing in food, like Jose Andres's people.




And then there's been more of those. Like, there's, there's all these. I think. How many documented attacks are there on aid supply? Cause it's a big number.


I know for sure.


I think it's a big number.


Yeah, yeah. No, I mean, it's been hard, creepy. Well, I remember when you had. Anyway, just the point I was making about Gad's thing is that it's also this, like, I just hate when people retreat to almost these hypotheticals. It reminds me of Sam Harris's argument about why you were really wrong with the. At least eight times.


Eight times. So eight times. Israeli forces have attacked humanitarian aid convoys and buildings in the Gaza Strip at least eight times since October, despite being given coordinates to ensure their protection. Human Rights Watch has said in a new report. So they're targeting these people. So you've got some members of the israeli military that don't give a fuck and they want to stop these people from getting food and, well, look, and.


This has kind of been, like, egged on. Look, there'll be so much, like, scrutiny over, like some college kids chanting from the river to the sea and look, but for the record, if I was in charge of those protests, I'd say stop chanting that. Because even if you don't mean it to mean the Jews, even if you don't mean it that way, which some people will argue they don't, and that's fine. Maybe that's not what you mean. Maybe you mean is from the river to the sea, everyone will be free and whatever. Maybe that's how you mean it. But it's also the same thing. Hamas chants and they clearly mean something else when they say that. So, like, maybe just use a different term.


Right. You can't use a swastika for its old timey use, right?


Like, if nothing else, that's a bad idea. However, for all the scrutiny there'll be over what these 20 year olds are hollering at Columbia when Benjamin Netanyahu is saying they're amalek as you're going into this area, which, you know, the story from the Bible is that you're supposed to kill the women and the children, and the story is that they fucked up by not killing all the women and the children. And then, like, they came back and like, no, even if you could argue, he doesn't mean it that way. It's like, okay, but Amalek, the story.


From the Bible, it was.


The story is they were like a tribe who was like, an evil tribe, and you had to kill all of them, kill the women and the children. And that's the specific, like, lesson of that story, is that you're supposed to kill the women and the children, and then you conduct a campaign like this. This is, by the way, this is what was in the South Africa case that they brought to the. To the UN and that they, you know, the ICJ basically said that Israel is plausibly committing a genocide. And they didn't exactly, you know, they haven't yet determined that it is or isn't, but they said it's plausible. But anyway, my point that I'm making about what sad was saying is that it reminds me of Sam Harris, where he sits here and he goes, well, imagine this hypothetical. Imagine Covid was 100 times as deadly and the vaccine was perfect against stopping transmission and there were no vaccine injuries. Well, hey, now, you don't look so good anymore, do you? Joe Rogan?


No, he wasn't saying. He wasn't saying that. He was saying you could. When someone's saying you could never mandate a vaccine or argue for a mandate, and he was saying if there was a vaccine, you could. He was making an intellectual argument. He's correct that you could argue that if there was a vaccine that had zero side effects and was 100% effective and if everybody took it, the disease stops. You could make that argument.


Well, what he was saying was that, then how would we feel? But he goes, then how would we feel about what Joe Rogan is saying and what RFK is saying when they were. You know what I mean? But the point is that.


The point is that thing is not.


The hypothetic like that.


Well, not only that, it doesn't exist in nature.


Right, right.


There's no vaccines that are 100% safe with no side effects. None of them.


I'm just saying, I'm not against engaging in a thought experiment to think about, like, what that scenario would look like. But at the same time, you're like, it does seem like that's serving in this case as a distraction from the real world scenario that's going on here. So, like, if you're gonna say, if Israel. Like, yes, I would not recommend Israel lay down all of their arms, completely disarm themselves, and then open up the wall to Gaza and allow Hamas to come in, but that's not on the table, that's never going to happen. So even thinking about that as a thought experiment doesn't really prove that much. What's actually going on here is what Israel is doing to Gaza. You know?


Right. But if you could flip it around, the opposite would be true. Like, if Hamas did lay down all their weapons, and if they did completely give up, you're gonna have some israeli soldiers that do not give a fuck that still want to shoot them. But for the most part, if there was nothing, if they completely gave up, which is also not gonna happen. But if that did happen, you couldn't see a situation where Israel just continues bombing.


Maybe not, but then what do they go to? Just being subjugated by the Israeli back to the status quo of just being a stateless people of permanent refugees with no natural rights whatsoever, no ability to trade with the world, no ability to come and leave. You can't have an airport, you can't have a seaport. You can't go out fishing past where some IDF guy decides you're not allowed to. So, like, yeah, if Hamas laid down all their arms, perhaps Israel would stop the bombing campaign, but then they would just continue subjugation forever, which has been the Likud party official policy since they were created by the terrorist Menachem begin. Like, literally, since this party that is the ruling party in Israel was created, their goal has been that the palestinian people never get their own state, they never get their own freedom. And that's been. And that's resulted in this.


And you don't give them their own free. There's no way you can justify it. No way you can justify that. A whole entire group of people. Israel never get to be a country that until they don't get the rights of the Israelis, they don't get the rights of a sovereign country.


They're trying nothing. Literally no rights whatsoever.


That's kind of crazy that that's being done by Israel, if you really think about it, it's kind of crazy.


Well, in some way, in a way it is, and then in another way, it's kind of not. It's kind of like there's this weird, you know, the hurt people, hurt people type thing. Like when you kind of suffer this trauma and we're speaking collectively here. So it's not exactly the same as an individual, but, like, you suffer this trauma and then you use that to justify doing whatever the hell you gotta do so that you never suffer that trauma again. And then you weirdly end up kind of like inflicting something on another group of people and kind of, in a weird way, holding them responsible for the trauma you suffered, even though they really, really had very little. Nothing to do with the actual trauma.


It's really an ancient kind of conflict. The Israel Palestine is very. It's very ancient in the fact that it's like the hate between them is so strong and they're right next door to each other, which is how people used to rock it back in the day, you know, I mean, that's. That was the fear of neighboring tribes, that people from the other side were going to come over and rape the women and children and kill your babies and slaughter the men.


And not like an irrational fear, like a fear based on this really happens, you know what I mean?


Happening in Israel. I mean, that's what's crazy.


The other thing, though, is that. And that's all true. But the other thing is that, you know, there are these examples, right? Like where there's Ireland and England and they're right next to each and like, things are just cool now, and France and Germany are right next to each other and they're just cool now.


But Ireland and Northern Ireland were at war with each other forever.


No, but I'm just making the point that. And then it's over and now they're not at war anymore. And Egypt. Egypt went to war with Israel four times between the 1948, 56, 67 and 72 or 73.


Did I say that? Was Ireland at war with Northern Ireland?


Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cause they were Southern Ireland. Well, they were. The British controlled, like the.


But it was really England.


Yes. Yeah, yeah. It was by proxy England basically dominating the Irish. And then, by the way, the Irish turned to terrorism when they were being dominated by the English. Shocker. Yeah. Which is another thing that people. Another real interesting.


You have to do it. It's the only way to go to war. Well, if you don't have a. If you have a smaller army and they have all the money, you got to figure out a way to get them.


Well, here's the craziest part of this, right? Is that. And I thought we talked a bunch about the history of this last time I was on, but I don't think I mentioned this. Maybe I did. But the craziest part of all of it is that the Israelis, I shouldn't say the Israelis. The Israelis. 5 seconds before they became as Israelis, like right before the creation of the state of Israel, they embraced terrorism. And by the way, these terrorists who were the leaders of these terrorist organizations, like Menachem begin and Isaac Shamir, they went on to be prime ministers of Israel, but they were terrorists. And I'm not like, I don't mean this is a pejorative, like self described terror. Like, they embraced terrorism.


What was their organization called?


Menachem begins was the ergon. That was his militia. And then there was Lehi, or the Stern gang, and then there was the Haganah, who was like, the biggest one. And they were not quite as terroristic, but they also were involved in a bunch of it. And their justification for it was to drive out the occupying force, which was the British at the time. After World War Two, the Zionists who were in Palestine were like, had enough of the British occupying the area, and they were very angry because they had limited jewish migration during the run up to the Holocaust. So they had a real beef with the British at this point, even though the British had kind of like, allowed them to have a chance to establish a jewish homeland there. But so they embraced terrorism to drive them out. You can go look up the King David hotel, killed a whole bunch of innocent people, including Jews in the hotel, because they just wanted to use terrorism to drive out an occupying force. And they actually introduced terrorism into that region. And many of the same tactics that the Palestinians went on to embrace were stuff that they picked up from the jewish terrorists at that time.


But then the same Israelis will turn around and be like, I don't know why these Palestinians have embraced terrorism. And like, they're telling you it's for the same reason. It's to drive out an occupying force. Now, of course, the major difference there is that Israelis came to stay, whereas the British were there. You know, they had their, this was a satellite, they had their home country back in Europe, and they could be driven out. It's a whole different thing to try to drive someone out who's like, no, we're setting up our homes here, but.


And there's more of us.


Yeah, well, not that much. I mean, there's, there's Palestinians and Israelis pretty close, if you count all of them.


Well, you're, you're also backed by America.


Well, that's the major difference. But that's basically my essential argument, is that America shouldn't be playing this role.


And this is being argued out now. This is a big point of contention now politically. Right. Because the Biden administration is not giving the same amount of support to Israel that it was.


They've been giving basically. I mean, what's really going on is that Joe Biden, this is a disaster politically for Joe Biden. And something like, I'm looking at the polls recently, I think you, percent of.


His base, different Twitter followers. I mean, my Twitter feed seems like he's doing a great job.


Really? Yeah, doing excellent. He's totally got it down.


There's a lot of people that are arguing that.


Did I say jobs I sent you is his latest clip from a speech that new Biden just dropped. And it's the newest. Yes, the newest one. He goes. And by the way, he meant to say, I think, financial crash. But he said pandemic. But he said during the pandemic when he was vice president, Barack Obama sent him to Detroit and you're just like, dude, what?


Why did he say Detroit?


Why would they send you to Detroit to deal with COVID Speaker one, what.


Now, I saw someone saying that perhaps it was the h one n one pandemic, which did happen during the Biden administration or during the Obama administration when he was vice president.


I don't think. I don't think. I think he was talking about.


He would have probably said a previous pandemic.




The point is, in 2009, he's out of his fucking mind.


If it wasn't, if it was occasional, people would let this stuff go. Yeah, but anyway, just to that, look, I also thought some of these guys, by the way, had on your show, like, I like them. I'm not even like, you know, like Coleman Hughes. I don't know him personally, but I like him. And he seems really smart. And I haven't read his book, but I bet I would love it.


You two together would be a fascinating conversation. Just about the Israel Palestine conference.


Yeah, well, I would love to have a con. Cause I think he's a good faith guy and I think, and he's very smart, but he also kind of, you know, there were two things that kind of rubbed me the wrong way when he was on the show. Number one was that he started by kind of getting into this argument about which I see a lot of people are supporting this conflict, doing the argument about like, okay, well, here are the number of total civilians dead, and here are the number of Hamas militants dead. And let's look at that ratio. And then, is that ratio that far off from what you find in a typical war? And there's a few problems with this number one, the numbers are totally unreliable. And so you're having this conversation. Yes, on both sides. I mean, both sides are totally incentivized to exaggerate the numbers. And also, in the fog of war, it's very hard to keep up with these numbers. We never really know the numbers of dead in war until, like, years later, when the excess mortality is calculated, and then you get a better idea of what was really going on there.


The israeli government talking about the number of Hamas militants they've killed seems to be them just pulling numbers out of their ass. Like they dropped these bombs. They don't know how many who got who and who are they going in.


There and checking dog tags?


They're not. You know what I mean? But anyway, but even that, even if the numbers were right, it's like, look, dude, if you look at the population density and you just look at the number of bombs that Israel has dropped, and you just see a lot of the footage that we've seen, and you just listen to stories that doctors are telling. I literally just saw an interview a couple weeks ago with a doctor who just got back from Gaza, and he was talking about how they have a major anesthesia shortage over there. So just think about the implications of that. Like what that means they're operating on kids without anesthesia. You know what I mean? So the point is that if you're talking about, okay, well, this many hamas people are dying compared to this many innocent babies are dying. That's not the question. Okay. Like, when you're inflicting this level of human suffering on people, the question for any decent, civilized person is, is this absolutely necessary?


Is this the only way to get it?


Is there any other option besides doing this? And as soon as you frame the question that way, you realize that, oh, yeah, there actually is. And that it's not true that Israel. There will just be October 7, after October 7, if. If Israel stops doing this. The fact is that, of course, Netanyahu's never allowed a real investigation into October 7 to happen, but everybody pretty much concludes that Israel dropped the ball in a massive way. In a massive way, that their security was just in shambles and all they really needed to do was not rely so much on these, you know, machine gun robots and have actual soldiers at the border, they could easily just stop there.


An issue of protests where the soldiers were allocated towards.


Yes. Yes. Basically they had. So I think as a result of the protests against Netanyahu, he had started to ally with some even further right wing groups than he normally would have. And to appease them, he was pulling soldiers off of the Gaza border and putting them over toward the West bank, which is what the religious Jews on the right really care about. And yes, they basically got caught with their pounds down. But I'm just saying they could just stop doing this. It's not, they all die or they keep doing this, they could stop and Israel can still protect itself. In fact, I'd argue their security would be enhanced if they stopped doing this. But the other thing which you brought up to Colman Hughes was that you mentioned to him, you said, didn't Israel prop up Hamas? Wasn't that part of their strategy for a while? And he, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, and maybe he just doesn't know about that detail of this as much because if not, he was kind of being dishonest, but he, but maybe he just wasn't familiar with all of this stuff. But he kind of went, you said that.


And then he kind of dismissed it by saying, well, there's a quote that's attributed to Netanyahu, but it wasn't on videotape. So, like, we don't essentially being, like, we don't really know if Netanyahu said this or not, and then just kind of moved on to the conversation away from that. But I find this, I found this in all of my debates that I've done on this, and I've done like eight debates on this since the war broke out. Everybody on the pro israeli side does not want to grapple with that point because it really is like a, it's a narrative shattering point once you acknowledge it.


Right. But if it isn't on videotape, he has a point as well.


Well, here, well, let me. Okay. So here's the deal. Right? So the quote that he's referring to was a quote by Benjamin Netanyahu. It was something along the lines of anybody who wants to thwart the Palestinians having their own state needs to support propping up Hamas, bolstering Hamas, transferring money to them to maintain. Right? So there was a quote like this.


Hamas maintains power.


Right? So Hamas maintains power so that they never, we never have to give them a state because we can look to the international community, we can look to liberals, Jews in Israel and say, look, we have no partner for peace. They're a crazy terrorist group. So we never have to make a deal. We don't have to fulfill our promise.


That we would just attribute it to him.


So basically, this quote, particularly, okay, this was at a closed door meeting with the Likud party. So this is Benjamin Netanyahu's political party, his far right party that's in power right now in Israel. So it's true that this was a closed door meeting and that it's not on tape. So what happened is, as far as I could tell, the first person who reported this, I believe was a lady who's a reporter for the Jerusalem Post. And then it's been run in a bunch of other newspapers since then. So basically what happened is an eyewitness who was there at the meeting. So another Likud party member in Benjamin Netanyahus political party came and told her that he said this and then she went and checked with somebody else who was there. And he also confirmed that, like, yes, Benjamin Netanyahu said this. And then a third person who was also at the meeting came out and wrote about it in his book or wrote about it in an newspaper article or something like that. So you had three eyewitnesses from within his own political party who confirmed that he said this. Now take that for what it's worth.


I think that's reasonably strong that three eyewitnesses, all in his political party said.


As long as they weren't trying to get rid of him. But because you can get more than three people to say that Donald Trump was in collusion with Russia.


Sure. So even, even say if you don't trust them. Coleman acted as if that's what the entire case is built off of, which is just not true at all. It's not just this one Benjamin Netanyahu quote. It's dozens and dozens of quotes from israeli leaders all throughout the political spectrum. There's been reporting on this done by almost every major israeli newspaper, Haretz Times of Israel. The Times of Israel on October 8 had a piece by Tal Schneider, which was how bin Laden, excuse me, how Netanyahu's support for Hamas just blew up in his face. It was the next day. And because even critics like Ehud Barak, who was the former prime minister, hes a Labor party, hes a critic of Benjamin Netanyahu. So he was a critic of this plan to prop up Hamas, but its totally uncontroversial that this was their plan. The New York Times just ran a piece, I think it was late last year, it might have been early this year, where they talked about how two weeks before October 7, Benjamin Netanyahu sent the head of the Mossad to Qatar because funds going into Hamas had slowed down. And he sent them in there to make sure the funds continued.


The case for this is overwhelming. It's not like relying on one. Yeah, here you go.


Yeah. For years, the qatari government had been. Am I saying that right? Is that how you say it?


Qatari? I think is, yeah.


Qatari government had been sending millions of dollars a month to Gaza's trip, money that helped prop up the Hamas government there. Benjamin. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel not only tolerated those payments, he had encouraged them. According to Times, israeli intelligence agency agents, rather, traveled to Gaza with a qatari official carrying suitcases filled with cash. Suitcases like a mafia movie, to disperse money. Retired israeli general Shlomo Brahm described the logic of Netanyahu's position. One effective way to present a two state solution is to divide. Prevent a two state solution is to divide between the Gaza Strip and the West bank. If the extremist Hamas ruled Gaza, then the Palestinian Authority. A compromise. Comprador. Comprador government? Is that how you say it? Comprador? I don't even know what that is. Comprador government with a tenuous hold on the West bank would be further weakened. This, according to Bram, would allow Netanyahu to say, I have no partner.


And so that's okay. So that's essentially the point there, right? So that's a strategy that he can say, I have no partner for peace, which is the israeli line that they like to use, basically. Okay. In 1979, the Egyptians and the Israelis met at Camp David. And that's when they worked out their peace. Now, their peace also just involved, basically that the US would pay them both off. We'd give them both $3 billion a year in perpetuity if they stopped going to war with each other, basically. And part of that was that Israel promised that they would eventually give the Palestinians a stake. Like, it was recognized by DC at the time, this Jimmy Carter, that, like, you gotta give them a state because otherwise this fighting is gonna continue on and on and on forever. So they promised that eventually they would give it to them.


This is the Yasser Arafat days.


This is before Yaser Arafat was like the guy, but he was alive. But then in the eighties, Yasser Arafat basically rejected terrorism. He had been involved in terrorism before that. He rejected terrorism. And he recognized Israel. I think it was in 1988. He recognized Israel's right to exist under 1967 borders. So basically, Israel has the right to exist, but we have the right to Gaza in the West bank. The ultimate of compromises from the palestinian perspective. Because, you know, a lot of their more hardcore guys are like, no, all of this was ours, right? We shouldn't have lost any of it. And now even the original us partition plan, which was rejected by the Arabs for fairly good reasons, they rejected it because it gave 55% to the Jews or 56% to the Jews and only 44% to the Palestinians. And they were like, but we're like 90% of the population here or 90% of the landowners here, whatever. And it's like, this isn't fair. But now at this point, they're talking about 78% versus 22%, so they're accepting 22%. And so that's Yaser Arafat in the late eighties. And then this is what set the stage for the Oslo accords in the early nineties.


And this is like, famously when Bill Clinton has Yitzhak Rabin and Yasser Arafat over and they shake hands and they sign these deals. And the promise again from Israel was that we're starting the peace process to eventually give the Palestinians their state. This is the process. And there were steps along this process. Okay, now, in 1996, Benjamin Netanyahu becomes prime minister. Now, the same year in 1996, there's this letter. You can find this on the Internet. It's called a clean break, a new strategy for securing the realm. And it was written by Richard Pearl and David Worms are and a couple other people. Of course, Richard Perl and David Wormser both went on to be very influential neoconservatives in the George W. Bush administration. So they write this letter not to President Bill Clinton and not to Bob Dole, who was running for president on the republican ticket that year. They write this letter to Benjamin Netanyahu, the new prime minister of Israel. And basically, if you read it, what they say is that they're like, look, look, you guys are all caught up in this peace process thing where you're talking about giving the Palestinians land.


We need a clean break from that strategy, and we're going to have a whole new strategy. And what it's going to involve is you making agreements with the broader arab world so that you don't have to make this agreement with the Palestinians. You see, the old way of thinking was always that Israel will never be able to make peace with the, with the broader muslim world because they're furious about what you're doing to the Palestinians. But the clean break strategy was like, no, no, no. You're going to embark on what ultimately became the Netanyahu doctrine, that we'll make it deals with the rest of the arab world so we don't have to give up this land. And, you know, what they recommended these two neoconservatives in 1996. And I bet you'll never guess this, Joe. Regime change in Iraq for the security of Israel. That was in 1996. And these people got in George W. Bush's government. And after 911, those same people decided that they believed that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction and that he was involved in 911. Yeah.


So there it is. Israel can shape its strategic environment in cooperation with Turkey and Jordan by weakening, containing, and even rolling back Syria. This effort can focus on removing Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq, an important israeli strategic objective in its own right as a means of foiling Syria's regional ambitions. And here's where it gets crazy. How much of a, what a great job the Mossad did in compromising people, by the way. I mean, how much of an effect did that have in everything? You know, you can go full Eddie Bravo and think everything that's happening is because of Epstein. Dylan, and I used to dismiss that a lot more easy than I do now.


Maybe not everything, but certainly some things. You will see this. You will see this. And I'm not saying that Epstein is the sole reason for this type of stuff. There's several different reasons. But you see this all over the political sphere and especially amongst, like, conservatives commentators, where as soon as Israel's mentioned whatever their principles were that they were just rolling with are, like, gone. Like, it's a totally different thing. And I get that. I get there's a reason for that, too, of course. Like what jewish people have been through in the 20th century, in the 19th and 18th century. Like, that plays a part in that, too. But there's no question that, like, it's not just, it's not just Epstein. It's also, and I highly recommend people read, John Mearsheimer has a great book called the Israeli Lobby. There's also this lobby, AIPAC, which is a very, very powerful lobby. The truth is that every us president since, with perhaps the exception of Trump, I'm actually not sure about that. But every us president since Jimmy Carter, I know for sure, excluding Trump, every one of them wanted a two state solution. Every single one of them, none of them were able to get it done.


Even though we bankroll Israel, you'd think it'd be fairly easy for us to, like, put pressure on the country that's relying on us. Like, okay, we'll keep supporting you, but you got to do this. Nope. Even when they go over and say, we want to do this, they're not able to do that. And part of that is because of the lobby. Part of that is because there's, like, tens of millions of evangelical christians in this country who believe that the Jews have to control Israel. Like, in some religious view that Jesus can't come back unless the Jews control him or something like that. I don't exactly understand it.


They go there on tour.


They have tours that go there well, and they also. And the israeli government's well aware of that, and they're well aware of how much they benefit from that. So they do everything they can to facilitate that belief.


White dudes in golf shirts.


Yeah, that's right. They're a big force. They're a really big bloc in this country. There's not, like, a few dozen of them.


They're willing to throw some real money at bringing Jesus back.


Yes, they're very, that's a very big deal to them. But look, like there's all of these us presidents, they've wanted an outcome that they're unable to get. And you can look, there's this one video of Benjamin Netanyahu where he doesn't know he's being recorded, and he's speaking openly about this. And it's pretty. So he openly starts bragging about how he basically blew up the peace process and how he, like, he basically is.


A recording of this.


Oh, yeah. I mean, it's in Hebrew, but there's, it's translated and it's legit. It's been translated by, like, a whole bunch of different people. And he's bragging about how he put all of these poison pills into the peace agreement. Like, he was like, oh, yeah, sure, we'll grant, I agreed to grant them a state, but only after it was determined that we could, like, Israel could control, like, military, like, important military areas. And then he was like, I also snuck it in that only Israel gets to define what the military important areas are. And I decided that a third of the West bank is that. And, like, he's bragging about, and he's bragging about how he tricked Bill Clinton and how easy it is to move the Americans. It's wild. Like, there's a lot of power plays at work here. And the only other thing I'll say about this, and it's not just like, the neoconservative, the clean break, the strategy that they wrote for Netanyahu, it's that. So in 2002, Benjamin Netanyahu comes and testifies before Congress as a regional expert. And he testifies that, like, oh, yeah, no, if you guys overthrow Saddam Hussein, democracy will sweep the region.


Let me tell you. I know something. Cause I know this region better than anyone else. And at one point, Dennis Kucenich actually grilled him and got him on record, and he goes, is there anybody else that you're advocating that we preemptively attack attack? And Netanyahu goes, yeah, Iran attack them, too. So I'm not like, I don't hate Israel. Like, I think Israel's a cool country. I think what they do to the Palestinians is fucked up, and it's inexcusable and they should stop. But I think Israel is a cool country. There's a lot of great things about them. But, like, Netanyahu, this guy who's the longest serving prime minister in israeli history, has been trying to get America into Warsaw that are in his interest, that are very clearly not in ours. And the fact that we have to, like, unconditionally support Israel, even when our own democratically elected president doesn't like the policies that they're enacting. And yet they still get all of this support, even now, as you know, Joe Biden doesn't know what he's saying because he's got dementia. But there's people in his ear who are telling him to, like, say, don't invade Rafa.


And he's like, don't invade Rafa. And then Benjamin Netanyahu's like, okay, we're going to invade Rafael. And it's just like, okay, well, fine, fine. If we have no influence over what you're gonna do, and you'll just wag the middle finger at us and brag about how you tricked Bill Clinton and defy what our presidents want you to do. Like, okay, fine, but then you don't get our money and our weapons, right? Like, isn't that reasonable?


It is. It is reasonable, but it's also. The left is very confused on this one. This is a baffling one for the left. Yeah, they sure are supportive. Israel has always been a position of people on the left.




Supportive jewish people. And to not want that is kind of anti semitic.


Well, look, on the. On the hard left, there's always been a bunch of people who are sympathetic to the plight of the Palestinians. Right.


Well, the people that have, like, seen Abby Martin's take on it.


Yeah, but Abbie Martin also, like, follows in a tradition of left wing thought, like Noam Chomsky and people like this, who have always been very critical of the israeli government treatment of the Palestinians.


Yes, but this is where it gets weird. It's like the support of Israel when Israel was attacked. So that's when everything gets crazy. It's not supportive Israel before October 7. It's post October 7. So now you have hardcore lefties who are. Now, they're like the majority of young people now. It's a big thing in this country. And universities, it's crazy. I mean, they're going nuts. They're attacking students, they're attacking teachers. People can't go to work. They're being told if they support Israel, they can't be on campus. It's just the whole thing is, it's very bad for the left in that regard because jewish people traditionally vote left.


Oh, yeah. Well, yeah. I mean, the overwhelming majority, I think 85% of Jews are Democrats or something like that.


And, you know, obviously, there's not full, like, even today there was a news report of a huge government protest in Israel. They're in the streets. And so it's not like this is a policy that's supported by the entire population.


Well, there's. I mean, there was so basically, I think what really changed things during, during the nineties, there's no question there was tremendous support for making a deal for a two state solution, particularly amongst, like, liberal Israelis. And they're basically. So Yitzhak Rabin got assassinated by a right wing Israeli who was furious that he was a traitor for making a deal with the Palestinians, and that took him out. And then when Netanyahu came in, and then ultimately, I guess it was Sharon who was in the year 2000, and there was another meeting at Camp David where, you know, what people will say, which is just not true, but what a lot of the people of the pro israeli side will say is that they offered them everything. They offered the Palestinians everything they wanted, and they just turned it down. And this is their, it's all slogans. It's like they never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity. But if you actually look into the details of all of it, even Shlomo Ben Ami, who was the acting foreign minister at the time involved in these negotiations, he even said in his book, and he said it in the democracy now interview, that he would have turned down the deal, too, if he was Arafet, because the deal was just so.


It was so removed from actually giving him his own state that it was like, this is just. It was an insulting offer, essentially. But when those negotiations broke down, and then it was after Sharon had this visit to the Temple Mount, which really inflamed tensions when the negotiations broke down, then the second intifada started and there was a big wave of terrorist attacks and that, you know, in the same cycle we were talking about at the beginning, that did a lot to turn a lot of liberal Israelis off of the idea that, like, well, there's no negotiating a piece. But it is worth noting that whenever there were negotiations going on, the support for terrorism, the support for Hamas and groups like that always plummeted. And then whenever the negotiations broke down, the support for those terrorist groups picked back up again. Because the big problem here is that you're just, when you essentially, when you take away the dangling carrot in front of an oppressed people, like, you let them know that there's no hope that you're going to live in subjugation for eternity, that's a very dangerous situation. That's when people will turn to really, really dark means.


And that's, you know, essentially, look, Netanyahus, like, what became the Netanyahu doctrine, and a lot of this culminated in the Abraham Accords, which a lot of Trump supporters will brag about. They'll be like, look at all these peace deals that Donald Trump worked out in the Middle east. Except the problem is that there was no war between any of the countries that he worked at these deals. It was just kind of like normalizing relations between Israel and these other arab countries around them. But what was the reason why relations weren't normalized? It was because they were pissed off about Israel's treatment of the Palestinians. So basically, Jared Kushner's brilliant idea, along with Netanyahu's, was that, oh, well, if we just bribe all of these countries with us taxpayer dollars or weapons, we can get them to look the other way and say, screw the Palestinians, we'll make a deal with the US and with Israel. So they did that. And Netanyahu was bragging about this at Netanyahu just a couple weeks before September 11, right around the time that he sent the head of Mossad into Qatar to make sure the money kept going to Hamas, he went to the UN with a map of greater Israel, and it was all Israel, Gaza, the West bank, and what is Israel proper, all Israel in his map.


Like, they were just bragging to them, like, ha ha, you guys lost. You get nothing. That's it. Nothing.


This map of greater Israel, this is something that he's proposing for the future.


This is, this isn't, you know, as much as people will point to the Hamas founding charter and it says, from the river to the sea or whatever, and that's true, at least their original one. But that's in the Likud founding documents also. In different words, but it's basically from. Basically, from the river to the sea will be all Israel, which is what it has been, you know, from. Since 1967. And again, by the way, I'm not.


Showing up with a map. What. Why would he have a. That sounds like a plot in a movie.


Sure does.


Look, this is all of ours. Well, I do know deals.


Yeah, well, right. Something like that.


It does. It sounds like a bad guy in a movie.


Well, look, I also don't. Don't want to, um. Because there are people who also jump to, like, other conspiracy theories that I don't think are right, that. Well, they'll say kind of like. Like, well, because. Okay, so, because Netanyahu was supporting Hamas and because he was using them kind of as. You know what I mean? Like, oh, good. We'll keep these terrorists over here so that they're not linked up with the people in the West bank over here. And then I have no. I get a. You know, a certificate. I forget the exact phrase, but it was. I have a. I think he said at one point, I have a no partner for peace certificate signed by the president and both houses of Congress. Cause look, I don't have to ever do a two state deal, but then people will jump to the next level, which is that, like, oh, he. He wanted. October 7, there was a stand down order. This is why it took Israel so long.


Yeah, it's a black flag.


That, or the false flag that I don't. I don't think is right. Or at least I haven't seen convincing evidence that it is. From everything I've read about it, it actually seems a lot more like, if you remember. I know we talked about this, I think, on the podcast years ago when I was on. But if you remember when. Okay, so in 2012, when Obama decided that they were going to start arming all of the anti assad rebels. And there's actually a hot mic of John Kerry talking about this because they were doing it through 2013, 2014. And he goes, yeah, look, we saw the rise of ISIS coming, and we knew the weapons were getting into their hands, but we thought, okay, that might put pressure on Assad to have to step down. So, like, we could use this group in order to get the regime change that we wanted. But then they turned around and invaded Iraq. And, like, that wasn't part of the plan. You know what I mean? Like, they weren't supposed to do that. Then we had to reinvade Iraq to get rid of ISIS. Who. You know what I mean?


And so if you remember during that time, there was one point when Obama called ISIS JV. It was like, kind of like insulting them. Like, listen, these guys. And you could kind of see where Obama was coming from. He's like, I don't know. I'm the commander in chief of the United States of America's military. I'm worried about ISIS. These guys are nothing compared to what the power that we have. And there's a lot of people at the highest level of the israeli government who spoke exactly the same way about Hamas. That's the Benjamin Netanyahu quote that he says, we can control the height of the flame. When he's talking about propping up Hamas. He goes, don't worry. We can control what they're able to do and what they're not able to do. These guys are nothing compared to our strength. There was tremendous hubris.


Let's say, what if. What if they decided on a two state solution as it currently stands, and they just let the people run it however they want, and Hamas takes over the whole Palestine, and Palestine becomes a country controlled by Hamas, and then they start doing trading with other countries, and then they start acquiring weapons, like, real sophisticated weapons, like Israel has, where the Iron Dome is no longer successful.


Right? So this is kind of the counterfactual that a lot of Israelis will rely on to say, well, look, we can't give them their own state, because what if when they get their own state, they decide to do this with it? So, all right, there's an old Thomas Jefferson quote about slavery, and I'll butcher this as I always do, but I like bringing it up. But it's something along the lines of, he goes, we have the wolf by the ear, and we can neither afford to hold onto it nor to safely let it go.




And essentially, what he was saying was, like, this was a major concern of people, even people who were kind of sympathetic to the abolitionist cause, who were like, yeah, look, but we've, like, enslaved these people for so long, so what are we gonna do? Free them and make them citizens who are allowed to get guns? Like, they're gonna be so furious at us, they're gonna come kill all of us. And you can kind of see, especially.


When there's way more of them. Well, especially you have a plantation and.


How many areas you might have all.


Get together and organized. Yeah. Guns.


You could see where it. That could have been a real concern.


Really good point, too.


Right? But at the same time, the dude.


Who whipped you lives in that big White House, and now you've got a shotgun. Yeah.


So there's. There's no question there's a concern about that. However, I also think, looking back at it, most people in modern times would say, but you can't enslave people, man.


You fucked up. You shouldn't deserve that. Sorry. In the first place.


And, look, I. I also do think.


That you better get the fuck out of Dodge.


Like, the way. Well, the way Darryl Cooper says it, which I actually think is a reasonable way to put it, is he goes, like, I heard someone ask him that question once, and he goes, okay, well, if that happened, then we're having a different conversation. You know? But that's not the conversation right now. The conversation right now is about Israel dominating these people in perpetuity. But I also do think that. I don't. Listen. I think that groups like Hamas get their strength from the fact that there are so many people who want to resist this total domination by the Israelis. You know, it was a General McChrystal. He's not a libertarian dove like me. Not like some comic idiot like me who's just like, I'm against war. General McChrystal, who was running the war in Afghanistan before he got caught saying bad things about Obama and got kicked out of there. Yeah, the Rolling Stone story with Michael Hastings. The late, great Michael Hastings, might have. Yeah, I don't know about that. But General McChrystal, this tough, hard nosed general, he was the one who coined the term insurgent math, and he said, what's ten minus two?


A lot of you might think it's eight, but the answer is 20. When we're talking about insurgents, ten minus two equals 20, because you kill two insurgents. And each one of them had brothers and uncles and nephews and friends. And now they all join up the resistance movement. Cause they're all so radicalized by the fact that you just killed someone they loved. And this has been the nature of this. This dynamic from the beginning of it. And so, yeah, it's like just saying that. To the concern that if Israel was to grant the Palestinians their freedom, that what if? Then this led to, like, some swelling in Hamas. I think the truth is that doing what you're doing now is much more likely to increase hamas or hamas like organizations, because there's.


You know, so they're basically. It's like credit card debt. It's like, basically, they keep using their credit card, they're never gonna be able to pay off the debt. It just keeps rising and rising and rising, and your monthly payments keep getting higher and higher. And you're fucked.


Yeah. But again, like, I will say that the one nice example or the one silver lining to all of this is that there are so many examples throughout the world where things were so off. I mean, you just never could have imagined that, like, Germany could live right there in Europe next to all these countries. They just went to two world wars with each other. You know what I mean? But they do.


They travel by train to visit each other.


Yeah, that's right. And everyone's restaurants, dude, I went last year and did, like, stand up in. I went to London. And then you get on, like, a 45 minutes flight and you go over to Ireland and you're just like, oh, you guys are right next to each other. Everyone's just coming out to the shows and we're having fun, and it's just cool. And, like. So there is something beautiful about that where you, in the moment, it seems like this could never be solved. But, like, that's not necessarily true. The truth is that most human beings are incentivized by wanting to live their life and wanting to take care of their family and wanting to. You know what I mean? Like, and if given an option to do that, rather than losing their sons in. In war, a lot of times they'll choose that. But in order for that to happen, the, look, Israel has all of the power, and the palestinian people have virtually nothing. The only thing they have the power to do is to, you know, I guess, support these acts of terrorism, which are essentially, like, celebrating losing. It's so sick and dark that you're like, aha, we'll kill a few of your people and then get way more of our people killed than you.


It's just like, that's the only thing they have. Aside from that, every peaceful effort that they make ends up being violently suppressed. And Israel has all of the power. And in order to get to that step, it's on. The ones with the power have to make some concessions. And the only way to get there is for Israel to, like, at least get back on some path toward, like, hey, we are going to give you, like, your sovereignty.


At some point, there was some recent discussion of rebuilding Gaza, where they were talking about what they could do for that area once they rebuild it. What's the plan on that?


Well, there's been a lot of different things floated out, and of course, Israel is always kind of talking out of both sides of their mouth. So, like, on one moment, they'll be like, we just want Hamas. We just have to get Hamas out of there. And then they'll be like, well, we really do think that every country should take in a fair share of the gazan people. Like, they're floating out the idea of just cleansing the entire area. I know that the UN, I think, recently said that it would take 80 years to rebuild Gaza. And I don't know if that. I don't trust UN numbers. Exactly.


Rebuilding Gaza. Two decades, 50 billion over two decades. Well, someone just got paid well. Right?




So what's the also thing? But nobody building is very profitable.


Well, that's for sure. Yeah. Oh, there's money to be made in the destruction. There's money to be made in the rebuilding, and people will make that money. But I think that the truth is that. But Israel has not at all laid out what the endgame of this is, other than this assertion that we must get rid of Hamas entirely. Even though us and israeli intelligence have both said that that's impossible. It's not an achievable task. Hamas is popping back up in the areas that they've already leveled. And they could go into Rafa. I'm sure they can kill some Hamas militants in there, but Hamas or Hamas like, groups are coming back.


How many do you think they've killed so far?


No idea. And I don't think they know.


What. What are the numbers of that exist?


They've. They've claimed, um, that they've. I saw, like, at one point they said they've killed 8000, then they said 10,000, then 14,000. I don't know. Honestly, I have no idea what the real number is. And I don't. I don't think the israeli government knows. And I don't think, uh. I think probably the gazan health ministry doesn't know either. It's, like, very difficult work to, while this is all going on, identify bodies and figure out how many of them are dead and how many of them were joined up with Hamas or weren't. You know, Hamas is also not like, it's not a government. It's not like as if there's like, you know, it's not like, okay, if you were like, say, tracking, like, in America, there was a big, you know, like, explosion. A bunch of people died. And you could look at, like, DNA records and who was enlisted in the military, and you could just, like, match them up against each other. It's not scientific like that. Or at least it's much more primitive than that. So I don't. I really wouldn't venture to guess. And I also don't know you know, like, how accurate the numbers.


When they say 35,000 people have died, it seems within the realm of possibility.


There's a lot of people missing. Right. And that's part of the problem.


Yeah. Well, they said the most recent figures that they put out, again, this is the Gaza health ministry, which is overseen by Hamas. So take that with a grain of salt or whatever. But they said there's, like, I think, 10,000 who they weren't able to identify.


Can you imagine the horror of just walking down those streets? So if there are 10,000, how many of them can you smell? You know? I mean, you just look around, you just see wreckage and you smell rotting bodies.


Oh, dude. And just the worst things in the world.


Insane. It must be insane to live there before October 6, when it was already prison, to see it now. And it's continuing. Right? It's going on right now.


Oh, yeah, yeah, no, and then imagine, like, imagine. You know, and they're. There's constantly, like, the defenders of this military campaign will say, oh, they dropped. They drop warning bombs and they drop leaflets and they tell you, no problem, just leave. But you're talking about people who are like, first of all, in they live. At least a large percentage of them live in a level of poverty that none of us have ever experienced. Just telling people, just leave and head out to the. You know. And people almost have, like, in their mind that, like, what is there? Like, some sophisticated refugee camp waiting for them with tents and water and food? Like, no, they're just telling them, like, go. Go out into the desert. Go out into this. This other place. You have nothing. It's not that easy. Like, you might have little children with you or old people with you. It's not that easy to just leave. And then when they leave and they go into Rafa, which was supposed to be safe, they go, oh, yeah, now we're. Now we're invading Rafa. So leave again. Where do you go, exactly? Who knows? And again, like, look, dude, it's just.


Again, I just think that whenever you're talking about these things, when you're talking about inflicting this level of human suffering on a group of people, whoever's defending that man, the onus, is on you to demonstrate that there's absolutely no other way to do it. And the other reason why I bring up this point all the time about Israel propping up Hamas as this strategy is that doesn't that at least change the narrative? Because if you just go, which a lot of people are, they'll just be like, well, look. Look what happened on October 7. Look how horrible that is. Nobody could stand for anybody doing that. And therefore, Hamas has to go. And so whatever happens in that process, hey, that's on Hamas. And like, that, I guess on some superficial level, I can understand that. But, like, yeah, but once you know that they were propping up Hamas specifically so that they wouldn't have to give the innocent Palestinians their own state, and now they get to use that group that they propped up as the excuse why they're allowed to just slaughter these people. That's just like. That's a whole different level of.


No, that's fucked up, man. That's just not. And all these terms get conflated. They'll be like, doesn't Israel have the right to defend itself? You're like, yeah, but see, now you're manipulating this idea of self defense, which is a natural right. You could argue the most natural human right is the right to defend, you know, the right to life and then the right to defend your life. But the right to defense is like, so imagine, like, me and you were hanging out at your house and someone, like, broke into your house and kills me, and then points the gun at you, and you grab your gun and you kill that guy. You'd be like, well, yeah, you had the right to defend yourself. You know what I mean? Like, he's on your property. He broke into your property, he just killed your friend. He's trying to kill you, and you're like, no, you have the right to defend yourself. No question. Or you could even argue, right? Say, like, in the human shield example, he's holding a little baby as he's shooting at me, and then shoots at you. And you shoot and you hit the baby and him.


You can say, hey, that's horrible, but that was on him. But now you're talking about, like, a guy breaks into your house, shoots and kills me, runs and leaves, retreats back to his house where, you know, his wife and his five kids are. And so you blow up the house, and you're like, well, look, I have a right to defend myself. And you're like, okay, but this is a slightly different concept than just, like, the right of self defense, as we all understand it. This is more like the right to revenge, the right to justice, which, okay, I'm not. I believe in justice, and I think all of the people involved in October 7 should face justice for what they did. Horrific terrorist attack. But there's a very different question between, like, defending the country of Israel and enacting justice against those people if it means, like, babies get crushed to death in rubble and parents get killed in front of their children and all of the, you know, horror that's been going on.


What, do you think Hamas thought Israel was gonna do this?


I think this was the plan.


So you think they wanted Israel to do this?


Yeah, I think Hamas doesn't. Hamas doesn't care about palestinian life. And they, like, I think, are. I think the goal. The goal in asymmetric warfare is almost always to provoke an overreaction out of your opponent. Right. So, like, Osama bin Laden never thought he could destroy America by taking down the twin towers, but he thought he could lure us into a war in Afghanistan that could bankrupt our country, just like he was trained by the CIA to do with the Soviet Union. Right. Like, that was kind of the plan. And likewise, I think that Hamas knew that Israel would overreact in this way. And look. I mean, look what's happening. Totally turn global opinion against them and put themselves in more jeopardy than they've ever been in. There's almost nothing that anyone else could have done to Israel that would have put that country in more jeopardy than what they've just done to Gaza. This is, like, never going away for them. And I don't think. I don't think a lot of Israelis or pro israeli Americans have really grappled with this fact. Like, you could get into the semantics of arguing whether this is a genocide or not a genocide, which I never get into, by the way.


I just don't care about, you know, whether you call it that term or call it a different term.


Whatever it is, is real.


But the fact that the International Court of Justice ruled that this is a plausible genocide is so wild that they ruled that the jewish state is committing a genocide, that's just such a different way of looking at things than all of us grew up with. Like, no, the Jews were the victims of genocide, not the perpetrators of it. And I am jewish, and I do resent that. They've kind of put that. You know what I mean, into the public mind and to some degree, because there's a case to be made for it. But Israel is really playing with fire here, and I think they're in a more precarious position than they've ever been in my lifetime, for sure.


Jesus Christ. What do you think happened to that iranian dude? I think that's just a crash in the fall.


I think. So. That is kind of my. Yeah, like, I. You know, of course you always, in some weird, perverse way, want the more exciting story?


Don't fly in the fucking fog in a helicopter. How about that?


Well, I asked a few of my real smart friends. Like, I was calling them a bad. I called Scott Horton earlier today, and I was like, what do you think about this? And he was like, it does seem like bad weather. And he was like. Cause they couldn't even, like, recover it. You know what I mean? Cause the weather was so bad. And also, it's not. Taking out the iranian president doesn't really do anything anyway. Ayatollah, who has control. Yeah, they'll put another. They'll put another president in and it'll be the exact same thing. And I just don't think. My guess is that it was just bad weather, but I'm totally open to. There might be some evidence that comes out that it was something else.


It's always more fun to think it's some secret squirrel shit.


Yeah. Yeah. I think this one might have just been bad weather, though. It turns out it's really not safe to fly a helicopter in bad weather.


No, it's fucking terrifying. You can't see. Fly right in the mountains.


Yeah. That's not good.


No, it's not good. I don't know.


Do you fly on helicopters?


I have, yeah. They don't, like, they don't make me feel good. Yeah, the people tell me they're fine. They know how to do it. They're safe. They know how to auto rotate on the way down. Yeah, yeah, whatever, bro. That thing seems weird.


I'm sure that's what they told the iranian president.


Well, I mean, do they have helicopters that can operate through the clouds just like an airplane does, right. Where they know exactly where they are at any given time?


I don't know. This is. I have no knowledge on this subject, but I just feel. I've never been in a helicopter and I don't want to.


It doesn't seem like, as sophisticated a method of flying.


I just feel like helicopter lists. Life has been going pretty good for me, and I'm just going to keep riding down this path where you don't go on helicopters.


Burr has a license and he took me up.




Yeah, yeah, Bill Burr. He's really good. Really good at flying helicopters.




The handful of times I've been in helicopters with him, we were flying around downtown LA. You can just fly around. That's what's weird. They don't tell you where you can go and not go. I mean, I'm sure they do, but for the most part, once you say you're gonna go to a specific area. You can just kind of fly around. So, yeah, yeah, it's weird. So you have a helicopter because they're below the airplanes.


I don't know why I was already scared of the idea of flying in a helicopter, but flying in a helicopter that's being piloted by Bill Birds. This is the scariest thing in the world to me. Like, you just get pissed off at something in the middle of it. He's, like, yelling, and you're like, too focused, man.


No, he's very focused when he flies a helicopter. Very, very serious about it. But he took me around these buildings, and you just flying around buildings in downtown LA, like, this is crazy. You just fly right by these skyscrapers.


I mean, that does sound cool. It is cool, but I don't want to do.


It's kind of beautiful. Like, you're just flying around, and it's kind of leisurely because they don't go that fast.




Leisurely flying around downtown. I'm like, this is crazy. And then you look at a lot of those buildings on downtown LA. They all have, like, helicopter landing pads on the roof. Like, this is bonkers.


Yeah. I mean, okay, I understand the appeal from him. That does seem fun.


That's fun.


But then, you know, you don't want to end up like this iranian guy.


Yeah, there's Bill there. Fucking Bill Burr. Yeah. I'll fucking show you how to flat his helicopter with my fucking. Oh, how dare you wear that paper boy hat when you made fun of me. Famously set a little rascal.


Look at this. Is, like, right after that, he went and bought the hat.


It's a good look. Yeah, he's awesome. Him and Tim Dillon are the very best at ranting, like, by themselves on a podcast. They're the only podcasts that I listen to where a guy just goes off 100% by himself. Bill. Really? By himself. Like, the. Tim Dillon has a producer that's like a built in one man audience, right?


Who he kind of plays off of him.


Yeah. And he's great. But he's. Even a one person is enough for Tim Dillon. Like, Tim Dylan can rant with one person better than anybody on the planet. But he's very smart in the way he does it. Like having his producer right there. So he's saying funny things for his producer, his producers laughing.




And then. So he'll do that also in podcasts. Same kind of thing, you know? Whereas Burr is just him by himself.


I'll tell you what I know. Like, read. Like, someone will just ask him, like, the most kind of basic question.




And then, like, he's just reading their question, and then it just launches him into this thing that, like, you know, he wasn't even planning on talking about none of this.




And then it just launches, and it's beautiful.




Yeah. Both those guys are the best.


Yeah. Dylan's the best, though, at just being hilarious about anything by himself.


Dude. I mean, I met Tim, like, pretty early. He was pretty new when I first met him, and he was definitely, like. I mean, he wasn't as, you know, like, he didn't have the chops that he has now. He wasn't as polished as he is now, but he was very green. He was brand new. But I remember just, like, hearing a few of his rounds on podcasts, and you were like, yo, this guy is gonna be like, a force of nature. It's like, I almost like. It's almost like. You see, it's like if you were watching, like, Michael Jordan playing high school or something like that, and then you just saw, like, one move and you were like, oh, shit, we're doing that now. All right, all right, fine.


Well, he came. It's such a unique perspective. A gay, right wing guy who used to sell subprime mortgages and did a lot of drugs.


I'm still not convinced he's gay. I'm convinced he used to sell subprime mortgages. That for sure happens.


I'm convinced he did a lot of drugs.


That I believe. Yeah, that I believe. Gay thing. You know, it's funny. Cause every now and then you'll see it. There's, like a moment where you see the gay come out and you're like, oh, there it is. Oh, there it is. You hide it pretty well, Tim, but it's there.


Look him there with the fucking glasses. Oh, my God. And he puts those glasses on. So he's like. He's in his own little world, and he could just say the most wild shit about everybody. Did you see the Nancy Pelosi debate with the dude from Mumford?


No, I still haven't watched it. I did. I know you. You asked me if I'd seen it. And then my buddy Rob Bernstein, who co hosts my podcast with me, part of the problem, he was like, dude, you gotta watch it. But I just have not. I've been constantly traveling.


Yeah, dude, he handed her.


Well, I can't believe Nancy Pelosi actually did an Oxford style debate. That just seems ridiculous. Who told her that was a good idea?


I don't know. I mean, I guess she thought, Winston is just like, this fucking musician, isn't he? A banjo player? What's going on here? Pelosi interrupted by anti israeli. Pelosi rebooked to her face during Oxford debate after condemning Americans. Clouded by guns, gays. God. What. What does that mean? Clouded by guns, gays. God. What does that mean? What does that mean? She's so crazy. Guns and gays and gods. Oh, my God. Challenging Pelosi's position in the debate about populism, Winston Marshall, a musician who was once part of Memphis and sons, now hosts the Marshall matters podcast for the spectators. Spoke in opposition to the Oxford Union motion that this House believes populism is a threat to democracy. That is a crazy argument, that populism is a threat to democracy.


Well, like, it's. I swear to God, whenever you. Whenever you hear people like Nancy Pelosi or Hillary Clinton or any of them use the term democracy, just in your mind, substitute what they mean by democracy is our rule over you. Like, in a sense, that's what they mean. It's like, oh, yeah, populism is a threat to you guys ruling us.




And that's. That's kind of true.


That's exactly what she's saying.


There's a.


She just doesn't know she's saying that.


I will say there's a. There's a really great debate. I believe it was the monk. It was. It was between David from and God. I'm blanking on his name. Trump's big advisor. Oh, man. I'm blanking on his name. I'm just. I'm usually pretty good with names, guys. But what is the guy who, like, masterminded Trump's 2016 campaign? Yes. Steve Bannon.


Steve Bannon.


So Steve Bannon and David Frum. David Frum was a speechwriter for George W. Bush, and Steve Bannon debated populism. And the crowd was so hostile to Bannon. And he actually did a very good job in the debate. I highly recommend everyone listen to it if you're interested in this stuff, because he basically laid out how the whole Trump is populist movement is result of your failures. Like, who are you, George W. Bush speech writer, to look at us and say, like, why is there this populism? Gee, I wonder why? Maybe it's because the elites mismanaged everything. And so then there was, like, a movement that rose up like, hey, these elites are screwing you over. It's. Populism is. It's not a sign that you have a healthy society. It's a symptom of a cause. You know, it's like, it's in the same way. I know me and you have talked about this a bunch before, but in the same ways when all these people will be like, you know, we need to have trust in our institutions. And you're like, well, yeah, but we also need institutions that don't lie to us. And when they do lie to us, you can't turn around and say, hey, you have to trust these institutions.


Like, no, the problem started with you not being trustworthy, not with us not trusting you.


I think people are starting to understand that better now. I really do.


I do, too.


I think there's been a pretty significant shift towards people being very skeptical about bullshit now, where it's just, there's going to be a ton of people. And some of these people, by the way, are paid. And this is what I have talked to people recently that are, they either stream or their YouTube personalities or their Instagram social media personalities, and they have a. A certain number of followers, and they offer them thousands of dollars to do political posts. Thousands of dollars to talk about specific political issues.


Damn it, there's no money in my politics.


But you know how crazy. What if you have a really big account? Like, what if you have a big account like mine? We have like, 19 million followers, and someone says, hey, we would love to pay you, you know, to support blah, blah, blah, you know, that is creepy, man. That's legal. That's creepy that you can pay people for their support for a political issue because it's this weird gray area where it's social media engagement.


And I'm sure there's also, like, there's probably, like a few, like, steps between, like, it's not like a campaign is directly paying you. No, it's like a super Pac or a group that was funded by that super PAC. And then you could be like. And then you could, with a straight face say, I've never taken any money from the Biden campaign.


Come on.


You're like, yeah, but you did take money from a group who's basically Biden's campaign, right?


Like what the NIH did with gain of function research.


We didn't fund nothing to do with it. Oh, this subsidiary.


Oh, yeah.


This company that we find. Yeah, probably.


But it had nothing to do with.


Yeah, those guys are crazy.


You're racist.


Wasn't that the best that made you racist?


It's correct.


Made you racist.


They're so good at that. They're so good at making you. Whatever, whatever. It is racist, transphobic, sexist, xenophobic, nationalist.


What they're amazing at. And I've kind of, like, marveled at it, like, over the last few years, especially when I do this show. Like, I mean, there's other. There's some other shows that I do that are, like, pretty big shows, but there's just nothing like this show, like the response to it that you get. And especially for me. Cause I come say, like, controversial things on this show and, like, the response.


That you'd be accurate.


I mean, it's bonkers, dude. Okay, so probably the biggest one up until, I don't know. But maybe the biggest one was that when we were talking about the war in Ukraine. So this was like a couple years ago, I guess, was the first time I came on and we were really talking about it, the beginning ish of the war. And I basically made this whole case for how NATO expansion is basically what provoked this war. And that that was Vladimir Putin's big gripe. And, I mean, I thought I totally backed it up with, like, listen, this is what all of these experts themselves said, you know, not russian experts, right? I'm saying american experts, heads of NATO, all of this stuff. And, I mean, the reaction I got from blue check journalists back when that meant you were a corporate journalist, Joe Scarborough was furious at me because this guy is saying that NATO provoked Vladimir Putin's invasion. Because, of course, the New York Times and CNN and their favorite term was unprovoked. This was a completely unprovoked. And I don't know, by the way, if you caught this, and I don't say this just to run a victory lap, but kind of 50% for that reason.


But just late last year, the head of NATO Stroll, Jens Strollsonburg or something like that norwegian guy, but he just came out and said, and he almost said it, like, so nonchalantly. He said that Vladimir Putin, before he invaded, asked NATO, he said, if you just put in writing that you won't ever put Ukraine in NATO, I won't invade, but if you don't do that, I'm going to invade. And then he was bragging. He goes, and we refused. We refused to agree to that. And then he was kind of going, and look, now NATO is going to expand even more. So see how stupid Vladimir Putin is. But, like, number one, he just totally admitted that all that thing that everyone was saying was such a controversial statement two years ago that this had anything to do with NATO expansion. It's like, well, the head of NATO just said that's what the whole thing was about and that he wouldn't have invaded if he had just agreed to not expand NATO more. And then, number two, you're like, oh, so you're just bragging that you didn't do that? So, what, hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians have died now?


We could have just made an agreement that Ukraine won't be in NATO and not done any of this. That seems better. But when you say it, when I said it two years ago, everyone like, anyway, my point is just that they really act like you're crazy.


Yeah. They act like you're crazy.


They act like you're an insane person when you're saying something that you're like, no, this is, like, very common sense and clearly true.


I don't think they even understand the history of it. Even the people that are commentators, a.


Lot of them don't.


A lot of them that are jack of all trades, right? They're jack of all trades in regards to their understanding of the economy, international conflict, you know, tech, tech issues.


You know what? I sent you this months ago, but this really was kind of eye opening to me. So there's this guy, Liam Crossgrove, and he works for Gray Zone. He's a reporter over there. And so he made, he basically did, like, this guerrilla journalism type thing where he was going up and asking congressman questions. And then he made a video where he kind of spliced it together. And there was, like, there was some stuff of me on this podcast in the video and some stuff of my guy Scott Horton, who, by the way, is great comma. His whole team over there is incredible. But so he made this video where he goes up to all these congressmen and congresswomen, and he asks them what they think about Netanyahu's propping up Hamas for all of these years. And to a man, to a woman, all of them just have this deer in headlights look, and they're like, sorry, what report are you referring to? I'm sorry. I haven't seen that. I'd be interested to see that. But I haven't seen that. What? What are you talking. What. And you just, right away, none of them know.


None of them even have the foggiest idea what you're talking about. And you almost realize that, weirdly, it was even eye opening to me. And I, like, I talk about this stuff all the time, but you just kind of realize where it's like, oh, like, yeah, that's not their job. Their job isn't to, like, read books about this stuff and read newspaper articles and keep up with what's going. Their job is to fundraise for their next election that they have, and to whip votes for this thing that this lobbyist wanted. And, oh, if I get what this lobbyist wanted, he's gonna contribute to my campaign. And if I do, it's like they're in a different world. They're not in the world of, like, actually thinking about this conflict and knowing things and not only learning more about.


It, just like being the president. They have to have a comprehensory understanding of everything.


Everything, right.




Which is impossible.


Which is not possible. It's not possible. And the other thing is, they're always talking like they're in a position of expertise. One of my favorite interviews was when AOC was talking to that lady and.


She asked her to expand that Israel Palestine.


Oh, my God.


She just collapsed into herself.


It's literally like a fifth grader that didn't study.




And then they ask you about the subject or you didn't read the book, and then, well, you know, it's about Billy and his dog and really good relationship, these dogs.


But the crazy thing about that interview is that it's like, okay, so her first comment comes off with, like, total authority, you know, and then, like, one little. One little follow up question. The question's like, well, what do you mean by that? And then you just see her get weaker and weaker and then, like, one more. But what do you mean, Beth? And she's like, I don't know what I'm talking about, man. She literally goes, I'm really not the expert. She just gave up.


But she kept going before she gave up.


She tried.


And you're supposed to know about that, if you can talk about that. And it's not that hard to educate yourself on it.


Oh, no. A little bit at least.


I mean, try have an understanding of the history of the conflict. It is a crazy, convoluted one.


This is it. This is it. Yeah, yeah, sure. I also think that what people are starting to see, at least in the occupation of Palestine, is just an increasing crisis of humanitarian condition. And that, to me, is just where I tend to come from on this issue. You used the term the occupation of Palestine. What did you mean by that? Oh.


I think what I meant is.


Like, the settlements that are increasing. No, no, that's not what the occupation means.


Oh, it keeps getting better.


Palestinians are experiencing difficulty and access to their housing and homes.


Do you think you can expand on that?


Yeah, I mean, I think I'd also just. I am not the expert on geopolitics on this issue.


That lady, by the way, knew exactly what she was doing.


Oh, of course. She goes, oh, I'm going to expose this chick. I'm going to expose her. She's. And, you know, it's great. I kind of agree with, with AOC's starting statement, but then you're like, hey, you gotta have something here, man. You gotta know what you're talking about.


Yeah. And also, like, this is not, again, this is not the place for that. You have five minutes or whatever. You got whatever that interview is. There's not a chance that you can lay out the history of this conflict. But there's also accords and all the different.


Yes, yes, of course. But there's also this weird thing in corporate media where there's almost like an unspoken, unwritten agreement that, like, look, if you just have a few talking points, you can get through an interview and sound really confident in yourself and sound like, hey, that guy knows what he's talking about. You know? And as long as, say, like, if I'm interviewing you, as long as I kind of agree that I'm just gonna let you say your talking points right, then you can come out looking really good. But as soon as one interviewer, like this one, decides, like, no, I'm gonna make an example out of you now.


And the beauty, by calling you on your bullshit. She just kept asking her to expand. Yeah.


So what do you mean by that?


Yeah, expand. She's not challenging her. She's literally just giving her the easiest of softballs.




And there's nothing there.


Yeah. And that's. And that's right. And of course, AOC, you know, I don't almost feel bad, like, because she was such a. Like, I think she was in her twenties in this video. Like, she's just. They also kind of knew that, like, that. Here's this woman who just is totally not up to the task and doesn't know anything.


The Marjorie Taylor Greene, the outburst. These are the best of the best. Ladies and gentlemen. These are our representatives.


This is our Jerry Springer government that we had.


What does AOC call her? Baby girl. She goes, oh, baby girl. They went full, oh, no, you didn't. You're a bitch. I will fuck you up. They were fucking. Marjorie Taylor's insulting her. She's insulting Marjorie Taylor's body.


Dude, it was wild. You're like, no, we can't just. When you think this country's gotten so dumb, you're like, oh, are we actually here? Are we actually here?


We used to watch those videos of, like, parliament breaking out in other countries, like Kazakhstan or some shit they'd go to, and we'd be like, that could never happen here. Listen to what they said. So she gives her shit.


Chaos on Capitol Hill.


Oh, find. See if you can find the raw footage of it so we don't. So she starts talking shit. Marjorie Taylor Greene says, maybe you couldn't read it because your fake eyelashes. And the other one was like, oh, no, you didn't strike that shit from the record. She said she has a butch body, that Marjorie Taylor, but she did it.


In the, like, the catty, passive aggressive.


Way, you know, we're here.




Well, you don't want to talking about. I think your fake eyelashes are messing up.


Order, mister chairman. Order of your committee.


Beneath even you. Keep going.


And I would like to move to.


Take down Miss Green's words.


That is absolutely unacceptable. How dare you?


Are your feelings hurt?


Her words down.


Aw, girl. Baby girl. Oh, really?


Don't even play.


Baby girl.


I don't think we are going to move and we're going to take your words down. I second that motion. That's amazing.


Don't even play.


Agrees to strike her words.


I believe she recognized.


No, no, no. Hold on.


Then after Mister Perry's gonna be recognized, then, miss. I'm not apologizing. I am not apologizing. Let's go. I'm just curious just to better understand your ruling. If someone on this committee then starts talking about somebody's bleach blonde, bad built, butch body, that would not be engaging in personalities.


Correct. Solid alliteration.


What now, chairman? Bleach blonde, butch body.


I see. Genuinely kind of impressed with the alliteration off the top of the head. That was pretty good.


The bleach bond built, bad built, butch body.


Yeah, that's not bad.


Not bad. She thought about it for a while. She had a little.


She probably had that in her time. Yeah, that's right.


That's right. There was a little time to concoct a little moment.


Like, she goes over to AIC, she's like, whatever you're at, I got a good one. I got one here.


Talking shit to each other like they're on Twitter. Spaces.


Like, the next line should be like, you are not the father. Like, it's just the middle of this chaos.


Those are our representatives. Yeah, yeah, that's. That's insanity. I mean, other countries have to be laughing at that. I would. If I was China, I'd be like, oh, my God, this is amazing. How could we have known our plan would work so well? So well, it is wild.


It is really wild. So, yeah. And this is what, and this is, this is who votes on war. I mean, they don't actually get to vote on war, if it makes you feel any better.


But the only thing that gives me hope is that maybe enough competent people will see these folks and go, you know what? I have to fucking run. Like, this is ridiculous. Like, this is, this is absolutely. Maybe some successful business people that were on the edge, this will push them towards just someone who just gets, cut the fucking shit.


Or even if not running, I do think there's things like, look like Elon Musk buying Twitter, I do think was kind of like a move of kind of like, okay, he's not going to run for office. That's probably not his calling in life. But he was like, ok, he can't be president. Well, that's right. Well, he couldn't be president, but he could run for something else. But that's not Elon Musk's best use of his abilities, but to buy Twitter and just be like, hey, look, I see what's going on here. We're going to make this one social media platform that isn't in lockstep with all of the other progressive ones. Things like that are really important.


So if they make sure, you could have been born somewhere else and be president in the United States. Running Twitter, SpaceX and Tesla while being president is the most. Elon Musk thinks that's true, that he wouldn't even step down. It's not important. I can get it all done. Get it all done in 20 minutes. Have a few meetings.


Well, I mean, but then if you.


Did that, the thing is, like, this is what all the conspiracy theorists are fearing about these people coming into the country. They're fearing that the people coming into the country, what they're going to do is offer them citizenship in regards to, in replacement of military service. So they'll serve the military, then become citizens, and then if there's like some sort of a crazy thing breaks out, well, then you have your immigrant army against the original people that were here when they got here.


Yeah, no, I mean, there's a lot of, look, there's a lot of concerns.


With that because otherwise AOC reveals darker intentions behind Marge Taylor greed. She's saying that she kind of did this on purpose to derail the actual hearing they were having. Because after that happened and they went into chaos, they stopped doing what they were there to do, actually, and just had, like, a vote without having any amendments or any more discussion. It's a microcosm what authoritarians do on a larger scale. I don't think she's thinking that far ahead. Margie Taylor Greene's a wild lady.


I don't think she had a master plan shit. I think she was just insulting her, salting her.


She's talking shit. I mean, I don't know. I wasn't there. I can't imagine that she's doing this as like, some 40 chess move. I don't see. I don't see her behaving like Netanyahu. I think she's doing a Hamas here.


I think the simplest explanation is that she just wanted to insult that chick eyelashes. That's probably. That's my guess.


Because they were talking. They were insulting each other. Right? Because she said, you don't know what you're talking about. Like, she said something about, did you read, or you didn't even read it? Like, I think, yeah, you're messing up with your fucking fake eyelashes. Yeah. She chimed in first saying, do you know we're here for? But that was after she was saying that she was derailing it right away. I don't think you know what you're here for. I think your fake eyelashes are messing up what you're reading. So the other girl, what did the other lady say before that to her was cut off that we didn't see in that clip? That's why I was just going, like, if she. Maybe she didn't think it was the whole thing, but also, maybe someone just said before, hey, if you get a chance to fuck this up, go for it.


I suppose it's possible.


It's possible. It's certainly possible. It's always possible.


And you just don't.


I think that that's just how she behaves.


Yeah, but at the same time, if you were like her, and then someone came up to her and was like, hey, I need you to, like, mess this up and draw it out, she'd be like, no problem. That's why that's my specialty.


Goes, I can do that for you.


Telling me to turn this into a shit show. No problem.


Should I do a bump of coke before she does it?


Crack her neck.


Let's go.


Oh, you got the right bitch for the job on this one, I'll tell you.


Yeah. You know, my favorite guy was that the. The gay dude who lied about his past completely?




Yeah. And now I just talk shit about everybody I know.


Dude, his lies were so crazy, too. Like, they would be lies. Like, it wasn't even lies. Like, with, like, a political benefit to it or something. It was just like a lie. Like, it's like, you know, as captain. As captain of the volleyball team at Harvard. And they were like, not only did you not play volleyball, you never went to Harvard. Like, none of this is really, like, just making up things where you're like.


Did you make that one up?


Just making that one up. It was like, lies like that. Where you.


What did he lie about? Jamie? But he's hilarious, man. When you hear him interviewed, he's fucking hilarious. Where he turns on talking about how they're all stealing money. And this one's the most. This one's the worst.


That's great.


Well, he's a con man in a fucking sea of con man. According to New York mag, he lied about this. Lie to donors. Allegedly lie to donors, then use their money to make purchases at Hermes and OnlyFans. He used campaign money for personal travel and Botox. Oh, my God, I love this guy. Allegedly lied to collect unemployment benefits. Oh, my God. It's so funny. He's charged with. Hold on a second. He's charged with stealing people's identities and making charges on his own donors credit cards. Wait, where you going? I'm just going down the list. Yeah, but I'm reading it right here. This is where I was. Okay, well, stealing people's identities and making charges on his own donors credit cards without their authorization. Lying to the FEC and by extension, the public about the financial state of his campaign. So Santos falsely inflated the campaign's reported receipts with non existent loans and contributions that were either fabricated or stolen. So he's just making up money about. Making up numbers about how much money they had. Stealing people's money.


Dude, spending campaign contributions on OnlyFans and Botox is just. I mean, it's hard not to root for that guy.


Listen, they're all crooks. Look, the inside trading is off the chart. That is. It is so crazy. That's legal. It's so crazy that that's legal. So while that's going on, you're gonna get mad at this guy for this? Well, seems minor.


You look at. No, that's it. And that's what's so kind of, like, funny about it is that, like, you think about. Dude, the Clintons, okay, Bill and Hillary Clinton have since I was a little kid. I mean, I. Maybe since I'm basically. Since I was, like, four or five years old, was when he was governor in Arkansas. They were, their entire career is, they were public servants and they ran a charity, and they're worth, like, $100 million or something like that. Like, wait a minute. Huh? Wait a minute. You guys haven't been practicing law any of this time. You haven't been working in some industry where you've made tons of money. You were public servants who make, you know, healthy salaries, but not like that's gonna put you in the hundreds of millions of dollars. And you ran a charity, the Clinton foundation, and now somehow you're Barack and Michelle Obama. They just. He goes into the White House. Look at the house he lives in now. It's like, so you're every. It's. There is almost something where everyone turns at Santos. Cause obviously, like, that's such a cartoonish, easy, you know, version of it, but it is kind of wild that there's so much outrage against this guy.


And, you know, it's like, in the same sense where, like, you know, there'll be, like, corruption and say, like, some eastern european countries, there's corruption where, like, the level of corruption is like, if you get pulled over by the cop, you could slip him some money and he'll let you go. Now, we don't have that in America, right? Like, you don't. You can't really ever slip a cop money when he pulls you over in America. You may wish you could in certain situations, but you can't really do that. I'm not saying it's never happened, but you really can't do that in America. But we have, like, the prison guard union lobbying to keep mandatory minimums on marijuana. So, like, okay, you could look down your nose at this primitive form of corruption, but think about how fucked up that is. You know what I mean? And that's just all it is, is just corruption on a much, much bigger level.


But it's legal corruption.


Exactly. And everyone just accepts it.


It's a wild time, my friend, because people have access to information now that allows them to really see all this stuff. Like, the insider trading thing is probably been going on forever, but we didn't even hear about until about a decade ago.


Yeah. Very rarely came out. It was just kind of accepted that, like, all of these people are rich.




And we don't really know where they.


Got their money from, except Jimmy Carter. And that's one of the things that people loved about Jimmy Carter as Jimmy Carter, to the end, really just maintained a very simple lifestyle and just never chase money. He never was that guy. He didn't do those crazy speeches where he talks to bankers and makes half a million dollars. For some strange reason, those speeches are wonderful because those are the cutest. Those are the cutest ones. He's like, wait a minute. Your policies benefited these corporations, and then, surprise, surprise, those people after you leave office want to hear you talk so badly, they're willing to fuck the market up. Yeah, well, I'll tell you, hundreds of thousands of dollars to come talk.


This is also, I think, where there's a flaw. Okay, so this is maybe one of the reasons why I'm a libertarian and not a progressive. I mean, there's. There's many reasons, but one of the things that I think a lot of progressives who I think are, like, well intentioned, their big thing will be like, we got to get the money out of politics. And what they mean by that is that we can't let, say, corporations contribute to political campaigns or something like that, because then, of course, they're just basically buying corruption. But I think the flaw, like Cenk Uygur and people like that, that's his big issue, is get the money out of politics. I think the flaw in that is that. Yeah, but they always find a way to get. Because, look, those speeches, that's not contributing to anyone's campaign, and that's not technically rewarding you for. For bailing out the big banks. It's just you happen to bail out the big banks, and then they happen to really want to listen to what you have to say.


After that, of course the book deal's warranted. People want to read your book.


It's like the idea that you could ever close down on every single loophole. Look, the Saudis weren't allowed to contribute money to Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign because you're not allowed to do that. But they could give $10 million to the Clinton foundation. And then once Hillary Clinton lost, it's so weird. They stopped donating. Like, I don't know, they just stopped being interested in charity. You know, the house of Saud was really interested in charity for a while there in 2016, and then they stopped being so interested. So essentially, I think, like, the libertarian view on it is that it's like, no, no, no. Whatever rule you want to have, if you have this much power in Washington, DC, that power's gonna be corrupted, and people will find a way. The only answer is to reduce the power.


Yeah. And isn't the charitable foundation thing a sneaky tax way of making money?


Oh, yeah, for sure.


There's. Because there's a thing about charitable foundations, like everyone who's, like, really rich seems to have a foundation.


Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'm. I'm not the expert on that or anything else, really, but I know that they certainly, like, get a whole bunch of tax breaks that you wouldn't get if you just started a business.


Well, not only that, but if they're doing things like Gates, for instance, to promote global health. Right. So he gets involved, and he makes money off vaccines. So he sells his stock and then starts talking badly about them.




I mean.


It'S pretty wild.


It's wild stuff. It's wild. It's wild that you can make money, like, hundreds of millions of dollars while you're running a charitable organization.


But if you also think about it, like, the hundreds of millions of dollars that these guys make off of, that is nothing, because the legislation that they're passing or the policy that they're pushing is making these special interests hundreds of billions of dollars. So if you buy off a politician for $20 million and you get, you know, like, a no bid contract, that's going to be worth $200 billion to you. That's a pretty good return on investment.


There was a article about this particular area of Virginia that's, like, the most expensive real estate in the country, and it's all where the lobbyists live. And I think. Is it Blinken, whose house that they're picketing in front of, that they've been essentially there since. See if you can find it. I think it's. I think it's Blinken's home that he has some crazy fucking set up there. Some fucking dope ass old school mansion, and they're all camping out in front of his house. It's the Palestine free Palestine people. And so they've decided to constantly protest in front of his house. Yeah. Anthony Blinken's family is the latest target of Washington's ugliest protest trend. So they just camp out in front of his house, and they're pouring blood on the ground.


It's a little weird to do with your baby.


Stop the genocide in Gaza.


And I like this better than just blocking the road.


It's definitely better than blocking the road. Blocking the road is the dumbest fucking thing of all time. And, you know, I mean, this is what people do if you're involved in war. You know, if you're involved in people dying. Welcome to kibbutz Blinken. Oh, Jesus. Yeah, so I think they've been there, like, for months. This article is from February 16. Yeah, I think they just. It's a constant encampment. And they've got this thing where they're just gonna protest. Protest in front of this guy's house.


I do prefer taking it to the people who are actually somewhat responsible over just kind of in going to Jerry.


Seinfeld's shows and yelling at him. Yeah. This is at least makes more sense now that guys got to sell that house. Yeah. Dodge, bro.


Yeah. There might be. It might be time to leave. Don't worry. I'm sure the markets up. He'll do fine on that house.


I'm sure he probably has a couple other houses. Yeah, probably doesn't have to stay there, but it really one of them houses. Oh, you got a little spot over there. A little spot over here.


It is crazy, though, that they don't like our leaders. Don't even feel the urge to, like, kind of not shove it in all of our faces.




That there's like. That this whole thing is just, you know, it's all just kind of like, oh, how much money can I extract from this pot and get myself wealthy? You don't feel like any sense of. And I will say the one who I like kind of personally resent the most, which maybe is unfair, but is Obama, because so many of us did kind of buy into, at least to some degree, the thing he was selling in 2008. And you're like, wait, but you don't feel like you. Have you seen pictures of the house he lives in?


Well, he's got multiple houses. He's got one in Hawaii.


Yeah, but I'm talking about the one in Martin Martin's vineyards.


Pretty dope. On an article about the house that he had. And. And there's a fun fact about the street that it's on. Oh, yeah. A bunch of Saudis own it, right?




At least five houses. Also known as northern Virginia's Gold coast, the road features opulent homes on large properties perched high above the Potomac with sweeping views. Such estates sell for tens of millions of dollars, as was the case when AOL co founder Steve Case sold his estate to the kingdom of Saudi Arabia for 43 million in 2018. Must be dope views. Find us a view. Find us a view. Northern Virginia Gold coast real estate. Let's see what we can get for 50 million. You know. All right, see if you can get. For all the fucking Instagram ads that they want you to run for this political party.


If you. If you cover the 50, I'll. I'll handle the taxes.


Let's see what the views look like. Cause if it's over the Potomac. And they perched high above. It must look insane. Oh, there was a little image back there. If you click images. Oh, real estate images. There was one pretty spectacular view in that last thing. Let me see some view. So these are.




These are like, these old school, like, Connecticut style houses.




You know, like fucking the great Gatsby, that kind of deal. You know, those. Those. I have a buddy of mine who works in Connecticut. He lives in Connecticut, too, but he. He works at a school where a lot of these, like, people send their kids. He's like, dude, these fucking houses are ridiculous. They're old school mansions on these giant properties, and they. They all do drugs and fucking fuck each other's wives and go crazy. Spend all their. Fucking. Their real estate holding money and all their stocks and bond money. These are dope ass houses. Look at that.


They are. What a view. They're cool looking houses.


That must be awesome living there. So that's where all those. But your neighbors are all demons.




You're surrounded by people that are literally the cause of all the problems of the world.


If you're comfortable. If you're comfortable selling your soul, there's a really nice house.


Partying with lobbyists. Whoo. You imagine if you could just, like, slip in. You know how, like, the. Like, the Israelis, they infiltrate Hamas. Like, imagine you're an israeli soldier and you've infiltrated Hamas and, like, nobody knows I'm inside and you're. You're all. I mean, maybe you have to kill a few people. Like, fucking let them know you're.


I'm sure you have to do something.


Probably have to do something, otherwise they're not gonna trust you. But imagine if you can, like, infiltrate lobbyists, do coke with them, party with them. You know, some fucking dude who owns a sub shop chain or something like that. You kinda looked out, you know, and you're all sudden, you're hanging around with these guys and they get comfortable with you. Like they did with McChrystal, like, with that embedded reporter. Yeah, yeah. When.


Well, that was Michael Hastings. He got. They were out of the bar, and they just got him talking shit about Obama.


No, no, no. The. The volcano blew.




There was a volcano in Iceland, so he got stranded there.


Oh, right, okay.


Yeah, I think I know. In Iceland shut down air travel, so Hastings is embedded with his troop, and Mcchrystal, they get comfortable. You can't keep the act up with the reporter around forever. After a few months, and I think.


Also a few weeks, I think also because he was a Rolling Stone reporter. It was like their guard was down a little bit more. Like, they weren't like, this isn't like a Washington Post or New York Times. He'll probably run some kind of, like, pop story about this. You know what I mean? And then he, like, really ran the story.


Yeah. Like, use quotes of the guy disparaging Obama.




And he was forced to resign.


And there's something really interesting about that, though, too, just like a little bit of a window into, like, the lobbyist. Well, well, I just mean that there could be generals who are just like, you know, in their private time being like, fuck this guy. His bullshit commands. You know what I mean?


I'm sure. I'm sure they got him all tape recorded.




You know, like that. Wasn't that the thing about the Massad with Bill Clinton? Was that our story, they just came out recently with the Monica Lewinsky thing.


Oh, yeah, I think I did see something about this. Right, right.


Yeah, they recorded them. They're fucking good, man. They're good. And they catch those dirt bags, those dudes that are just like pussy hounds. You get two types of people that want to be president. Warmongers and pussy hounds. That's all you get. And sometimes, if you're lucky, you get a pussy hound who's also a warmonger, but for the most part, you get one of two.


It's almost like, okay, if your dick still works, you'll be a pussy hound. If your dick doesn't still work, then you got to launch rockets to, like, make up for that. Something like that. It's almost the same impulse.


Maybe, but sometimes if you dick works, you're like, hey, don't fuck this up. I'm trying to get late.


Yeah, well, that's what I mean. That's what you probably rather that or.


Sometimes when you're an old man and you don't want to fuck anymore, you're like, look, enough already. Just. I want to play golf.




I just want to relax. Going to the sun. So we come over it. Stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop.


Like, I've had my sex. I've blown up my things. Let's just chill.


That's what we need. Yeah. That's the argument that that's what Trump is at this point of his life.


Well, man, I don't know.


I mean, I don't know either.


It's such a weird goddamn situation. Everything they throw at them, it just backfires and it just makes them stronger and stronger.


And it looks like this case is falling apart.


It looks like almost all of them are falling apart.


The one in New York, though, apparently they thought was the most flimsy, like a lot of legal experts thought it was the most flimsy going into it, but now it's completely falling apart. They have contradictory statements that she made to Bill Maul. And then they also have, Michael Cohen just admitted he stole like $30,000 from the Trump campaign. So that's not good.


The really fascinating one was the which that sounds like what Michael Cohen would do. The really interesting one was the FBI with the picture of the top secret classified.


Yeah, tell, tell about that because most people aren't even aware of this.


It seems that the FBI, you know, when you see the pictures of them on the ground there with all the classified, it's like, oh, that was put there by the FBI. So it's not as if, like, it was presented as if, oh, look, this is what Donald Trump was doing.


The sheets that said top secret and classified didn't exist before the FBI came along.


They put the sheets saying that. Right.


And then they were the documents. And then they put pictures of these new things that they put over the documents that said top secret and classified. Then they took a picture. This is very important to just make this distinction because the documents were classified, but they didn't have fucking signs on them like TNT.


Well, and it also is, it's seeming more and more like there were several instances where it seems that Donald Trump was constantly being trapped, going all the way back to the 2016 campaign. If you remember, there was this famous meeting with the Russian at the Trump Tower hotel. But when you actually look into it, what happened was some russian woman said she had dirt on Hillary Clinton. They got there to a meeting with her and she had nothing. And then they were all like, okay, whatever. But then the story was, oh, he's conspiring with the Russians. And it seems that, oh, that was a trap to get Donald Trump to do that so that they could make it look like he was conspiring with Russians. And there's just been several things like that this over and over again.


How about the fact that Hillary Clinton funded the Steele dossier?


Yeah, that whole thing. And then, you know, so she confirmed.


Oh, 100%, let's confirm that the Clinton campaign funded the Steele dossier. Prosecutors said that there was so many sheets used that they had to start using handwritten sheets to cover up the classified info. That's what they say. Right. But the thing is, the photographs show foe that show printed out pieces of paper that say classified, classified and top secret. And those weren't there. They put those there. So it's not that they covered up some of the documents before they took pictures of them. That makes sense. Isn't that to cover up the information? Could be. But you taking photographs with pieces of paper that say classified, certainly secret, it.


Gave an impression of something that was different than what was actually there.


It most certainly does, because it's like, oh, my God, he knew these are classified in top secret. He knew he had had these. He did this deceptively.


And it's also just the visual, the optics of, like, look classified and just laying on the floor there like that.


Look, it makes sense if you have to document, okay, this one's classified. This one's top secret. Let's put a piece of paper on it. But as soon as you put the piece of paper on it that says those things and you photograph them, you're saying this is how you found it, right?


Or at least allowing you to deduce that for yourself.


You should have to be very specific about these classified and top secret sheets were not a part of the evidence. They were put on top to label that evidence. But they were probably like, you don't have to do that. It looks bad. It looks bad with all that classified top secret stuff. Looks bad.


And look, and it's just very clearly for anybody who's, like, being honest and paying attention, it's just very clear that there's, like, there's a political motivation involved here, that these guys are trying to hurt Donald Trump's reelection or election campaign. And that in itself is, like, just so wild.


Well, how about the fucking White House press secretary saying she can't comment on because it involves the 2024 presidential election? So she can't comment on Trump's trial because it involves the 2024 presidential election.


Which is so ridiculous. You can comment on the election. Your whole job is to comment on the election.


Also, you're not supposed to say that that trial is about the fucking election. You're not supposed to say that. DNC Clinton campaign agreed to steal dossier funding. Fine. They got a fine.


Oh, they 100%.


They got fined $113,000 to settle a federal election commission investigation into whether they violated campaign finance law by misreporting spending on research that eventually became the infamous Steele dossier. That is wild. That all that cost him was $113,000.


Imagine that's a real. That's a good deal pr you got out of that.


How much fucking Trump colluded with Russia.


Talk you got out of that, Kate? Just pee real quick.


Let's pee.


And then I talk about this more because we'll pee.


We'll be right back. That was the studio where we got in trouble. I got in trouble because I said that if I was talking to a 21 year old healthy kid, I wouldn't tell him to take that shot.


Wasn't that in here?


That was in the other one.


That was in the red room.


The early days.


That might have been our first podcast in Austin.


Yeah, probably was. Probably was.


Well, it aged pretty goddamn good, Joe. Aged pretty goddamn good, didn't it?




It's crazy to think about. I swear to God, like, this is always, especially now, because, like, we've been doing these shows together for so many years that you can go back and look at, like, the things that were so wildly controversial to say then and are a hundred and accurate, and they were totally accurate. And now it's not even controversial at all to say. It's like, oh, yeah, that's. That's common sense now.


Yeah, most of those things now. And, you know, it's just, I think these kind of conversations, though, contribute to the public's distrust in mainstream media. They really. They know. They know what the fucking game is now.


It's a really interesting statement because that's their argument. You know what I mean? That, like, that's CNN's argument about why we need to cancel Joe Rogan is because your conversations contribute to the public mistrust. But then, like, my counterargument to that is like, yeah, but that's good. Yeah, no one should trust you.


You did that to yourself.


Yeah. You guys are a bunch of liars.


Yeah, you're a bunch of liars. And I should have sued you.


I mean, dude, 100% slam dunk.


Yeah, I know.


I know. Now, that's why, I mean, like, I just want to see, like.


Like, I know how this game be. It's played out. It's like when you're doing jiu jitsu with someone and you're in the half guard and you're like, I'm getting out of this. I'm getting out of this half guard and I'm going to mount you.


Yeah, well, it did. I mean, look at it. It totally blew up in their faces and they're done. I mean, after the COVID stuff, I don't see any recovery. I think the corporate media is just going to get less and less influence. It's already. You see how much it's moved up. Look, one of the big ones go.


Back to what they do they were trying to do this with the reorganization of CNN. They were trying to get back to hardcore objective journalism without some sort of editorial bias because they said, listen, this is the only way out of this.


Yeah, but even that was never really, it was like, it was like, hey, let's not be so blatantly anti Trump and let's get back to just, you know, when they. Yeah, but still protecting all the powerful people. And still, it's not like there was ever really gonna be, look, you're never gonna, like, see a discussion on CNN about how, like, you know, you have these think tanks in Washington, DC who advocate for war and they're funded by weapons companies.




What do you think that means? Is that everyone's come up on CNN. No, never. And it never will.


Do you think that they would ever have a Anderson Cooper, which is brought to you by Pfizer investigation into Pfizer? That seems unlikely.


Of course not. And look, it's not even, again, like, take the example of, say, even Chris Cuomo, right, who now he's over with valuetainment with Patrick Bette, David, our boy, and all of a sudden he's talking about vaccine injuries and ivermectin and all this. It's like, well, why is it when you're at CNN, which is, you know, sponsored by the pharmaceutical companies, you don't talk about this, but as soon as you're over here now, it's okay to talk about this? You know, you just, you kind of see it, like, happen that it's like, oh, yeah, no, there are, there are, there's, there's humongous power centers in America. There's like, the pharmaceutical industry. There's the banking industry, there's the war industry. There's all these big ones, and none of them ever get really questioned in the corporate media. Like, one little action might be questioned every now and then, but the whole system as a whole never gets questioned. You'll never see, like a real, you'll never see a piece on CNN about, like, do we really need a central bank? Does the Federal Reserve do more good for the american people or does it do more good for Wall street?


You know, like, that conversation will never come up.




It won't. Because there's too many powerful people who would be, you know, like, scared by that.


And if that's the case, we're never going to have logical solutions to a real informed measure that we could put into place to fix things. It's not going to happen.


Well, but look, but I'm very encouraged by certain things. Right? And I'm very. I'll say, tucker getting fired from Fox News and being bigger than he was on Fox News is really amazing.


It's pretty wild.


Nothing like that's ever happened before.


Also wild that he interviewed that dude who said he blew Obama. I was like, yo, I forgot to ask him about that. Yeah, he got me with the UFO's. He had an agenda, goddamn it. He came in and got me where I'm soft right off the bat. Got me with UFO and angel talk. Whoa, this is good.


It's also pretty funny. Just come in here like, hey, Joe Logan, you ever heard of UFO's before? I've heard of UFO's.


Well, I did definitely want to talk to him about that.


No, of course.


He's got this very specific perspective that's very biblical. You know, he's got a very religious perspective on it. He thinks it's angels and demons, which is really fascinating, you know, that there's good entities and bad entities and that they've always been here. Like, that's a mind fucking half.


Yeah, it sure is. And I don't know. I don't really understand much about it. I also haven't talked to Tucker about that, and I would be interested, too, because he will allude to at points like that. He's had people inside the government kind of confirm things. See, I almost want to ask him. Not even on air, just like off air, like, okay, so what exactly was.


It's one of the craziest things that Bob Lazar said, and he said this way back in the 1980s, he said, there's a very bizarre religious aspect to it. And see if you could find him saying this, because I don't want to. I don't want to paraphrase this, but he said that what they were. It's. He said. It's going to sound crazy to say, but the way they have it described is that human beings are vessels for souls, that we're containers, and that that's why they're interested in us, that we're containers of souls. Now, I want you to imagine a scenario where AI is ubiquitous in the universe, and that this is where intelligent creatures, they get to a certain point in their evolution where they create an artificial intelligence, and that artificial intelligence is far superior. But in order to do it again on another planet, you kind of have to start the same way you did it on earth. You got to start with biological organisms that have souls. So if you want to make intelligent life, you got to start out with souls, because you have to have these creatures that have, like, these human reward systems about breeding and controlling resources and controlling real estate and territory, and that those are the ones that are, like, scrambled to innovate, and then they give birth to this superior life form.


But the only way to do it again somewhere else is you got to do the same thing. So, like, if you believe that life exists in a similar form all throughout the cosmos, that there's kind of similar fish and kind of similar thing, I don't know if that's the case. We have no evidence. But if that is the. If that's how. If what we're seeing in these different galaxies and what we're seeing in these different solar systems that we observe is planets in these Goldilocks zones, if that was the case, that the way to get these things to keep doing, you need to get. It's the soul. It's the thing inside the living organism that's causing biological evolution, the actually essence of the creature. That this thing is what's going to determine whether or not it hits the innovation level required to achieve artificial intelligence. And then that's what they are. So what we are to them is like these little soul containers, because you don't have souls anymore. How about that mind fuck?


Listen, it has a mind fuck. There is an extremely classified document dealing with religion and about that thing, period. But why would there be any classified material dealing with religion?


I want to go back to the religion thing.


I want you to say it just. It's so. It's so far out. It's all right. You're Jack has been noted. Okay, what does it say? That we're containers?


That's how.


That's how, supposedly, the aliens look at us. That we are nothing but containers. Containers of containers, maybe containers and souls. You can come up with whatever theory you want that we're containers. And that's how we're mentioned in the documents that religion was specifically created. So we had some rules and regulations for the sole purpose and not damaging the container.


Yeah, wrap your head around that. We're about five years away from talking to a robot, Dave Smith, that's indiscernible from you. And if that thing has quantum computing power in its fucking metal head, and it becomes another version of life, a much more superior version of life, and then they keep doing that forever, all throughout the cosmos. But the only way to get there.


Are you gonna start having AI Dave on the podcast instead of me?


I want to do my ads for me.


You still want to do the podcast?


Well, I don't want AI Joe to do the podcast because AI Joe is going to have to rely on all of my opinions. I formed up until now and I might change them tomorrow.




I can't have AI Joe assume it's going to know how I think about things because I don't know how I think about things. I like to be open minded to the point where I'm willing to take into consideration new ways of looking at things, new possibilities. I don't know if AI is going to do that. It's going to be too smart for that.


Yeah, maybe. I mean, it is an interesting, it is such an interesting thing. But on the point of containers, isn't there something, and I'm literally just kind of thinking out loud as I say this, but there is kind of something where we all do it, accept to some degree that that's true, that we're kind of container. I mean, like, just in the sense.


That, have you seen a dead body?


Well, right. If you look at a dead body, it's like, it's empty. Yeah. You don't look at that like, oh, that's, there's that. You're like, let's put that in the ground. Because the person, what we think of as the person is gone. Now, I'm not saying there's anything too controversial about that statement, like an atheist or a religious person or anyone would kind of agree with that, but it's something we all just kind of take for granted. But if you really think about it, it is like the magic of what makes us us is something that's being contained by this meat shell. And it's different. It's not the same thing. And it's not really anything that we, at least at our level of scientific understanding, can really tangibly measure. Like, what is it from the reductionist atheist position? Like electromagnetic waves in your brain. And then when that goes, it's just a piece of meat. Now, again, I don't know, it's a little bizarre. We don't really understand it.


And then the thing is like, okay, if we have souls, do other animals have souls too? And like, sure.


Seems like dogs do.


Dogs definitely do. They. There's something, there's a weird relationship that we have with dogs. It's very strange. My dog is basically my son. He's like my dog son. I mean, I think of him like a, like a person. Like, he snuggles with me. He's probably more affectionate to me than anybody.


Daughters give you attitude.


Your son's just cool. They don't snuggle with their dad on the couch. But he just, like, when I watch tv, he hops up on top of me and puts his head on my chest and he watches fights with me. He chills with me. Watch.


He's a golden retriever. And those are, like, also the just friendliest. Like most loving and lovable dogs.


They're so lovable. And he's so enthusiastic. Like, we went swimming yesterday and this fucking dog will not because he's not hot if he's swimming. So he's got crazy endurance. So he just keeps going for an hour and 15 minutes. I threw the ball into the water and he fucking leaps off the deck into the water and gets the ball comes back out, drops at your feet. Let's go, let's go.


He's like, you know how, like, hyped a UFC fighter gets, like, right before the fight, it's like, dude, dogs just have that energy always, if you want to do anything. Yeah. You're just like, you want to go in the car. They're like, let's go. Let's do this.


Yeah. He goes crazy. I could barely get the collar on him. He's spinning around circles like sis. Still, dude. Yeah. And he will never stop being enthusiastic about the ball. I threw the ball for him this morning and I always think today's gonna be days tired of this fucking ball. But no, it's like, oh, the fucking ball. He jumps up towards it. It's hilarious. Like, he never loses enthusiasm. There's gotta be something that we can learn from that because we just get, we get comfortable with familiarity and we get bored with things. We don't want to do the same thing over and over and over again, if it's that simple, like chasing a ball. But the enthusiasm that he had the first time he chased the ball, he has the exact same, maybe more so, because now he knows it's fun.




He can't wait to do it again.


But there's something about, like, cuz, uh, because dogs are, I think, essentially right. Like, we bred them to be kind of like babyish wolves. Like, they're wolves that are kind of kept in a perpetual state of immaturity. Right? Because, like, I think. Well, I think that. But basically, I think the. The qualities that you see in baby wolves, like a baby wolf will be almost indistinguishable in terms of how they could be domesticated from, like, a puppy, but it's. As they grow older.




Right, right. So it's almost like we kind of kept the traits that keep you young, because it's the same thing. It's the same thing with having little.


Kids trying to do to men.


Does seem like there is an attempt to kind of domesticate and soften.


Yeah, men keep men. It's like 13 year old boys that follow the rules. Shut the fuck up. Yeah, yeah. The wolf thing is really interesting because I am generally opposed to a weakening of a life form for human pleasure. Like, that's bizarre that you take a fucking wolf and turn it into Carl over there. But that's. That's what happened. That's what happened.


Carl's cute, but he's not much of a wolf.


But I love Carl, so, like, I'm conflicted. Like, part of me loves dogs, and the other part of me, like, I love wolves. I want them to be wolves.


Well, our wolves out there took those.


Bitch ass wolves that didn't want to hunt and they wanted to come by the fire, and we're like, hey, bark if a fucking bear comes by way. Yeah, throw your bone. And then they made friends, and then the will start drooping their ears so that, you know, I'm your friend. I'm your buddy. Do you know about the russian fire experiment?




They did it in Russia. They did this experiment where they wanted to see how quickly they could change a fox's overall appearance, their behavior. And so what they did was they had these captive foxes.


Through breeding.


Yes, through breeding and natural selection, meaning shooting in the fucking head. So whenever a fox was aggressive in any way, shape, or form towards humans, bang, dead. Next ones, they can't breed. So the only ones that breed don't shoot me. And so they probably are pretty aware, you know, through the zeitgeist that these fucking foxes are getting shot. You know, there's like, something in the air. It's probably some psychic in the, you know, morphic resonance, something in the field that lets them know, hey, people are getting shot out here. Like, you got to be nice to these fucking humans. See that thing he's got in his hand? That thing will kill you with a squeeze of his finger. And so they, over a very short period of time, turned them into completely different animals that had, like, big eyes, fluffy ears, like, ears that fell down soft. Their jaws got smaller, they became more cute.


I know. I remember seeing it's in one of those, like, famous documentaries about dogs. But I thought this always, like, was very interesting to me. Is that one of the major differences between wolves and dogs is that they do this experiment where they'll, like, they'll put a piece of meat and it's in a cage and the wolf or dog can't get to it. And the wolf will, like, bang against the cage and try to get it over and over and over again. We'll just never stop. We'll just never stop doing it. But the dog will try to get it a couple times and then looks to the person. And that's like one of the differences is that it's like, been ingrained in dogs that you are also their partner. You know, like, they'll look to you and be like a buddy. I know you got a few IQ points on me. Any idea how to get this meat out of this here cage? And, like, that's so deep in them?


Well, not only that, the wolf would.


Never think dog to use the leader. Right?


Wolf never thinks you're the leader.




Especially an unfixed male wolf. Shut the fuck up. Sit us a.


Sit who?


Fuck are you talking to, bitch? Don't you read little word Whiting Hood. That's me, motherfucker. I eat people.


They had in the same documentary. I can't remember what it's called, but they did. They had this experiment where people were just trying to raise wolves, like, domesticate them from puppies and raise them. And it was interesting to see, like, it's as they start to get into, like, adolescence and stuff. And the wolves would be attached to them because they had raised them since they were little puppies. But you can't train them the way you can train a dog. They're jumping up on the table and knocking everything off. They're not responding to down or here, boy.


It's food.


Yeah. Yeah.


Fuck you. Did you see that video that was online today? I think it's El Cerritos, California. There's a wolf running down the street.


No, I didn't see this.


Yeah, wild. It's a big boy, too. Big wolf running down the street. And this guy's driving and his car is like, is that a fucking wolf?




There's a fucking wolf running down the street in El Cerritos, California.


Where is that?


I don't know.


Somewhere. Somewhere. California.


I think it's near Redwood or Redlands. From a year ago. Oh, is it this? Yep, that's it. Yeah, that's from a year ago, bro. That's a big ass wolf in a street. That's an urban street. Look at that. That's a big wolf, man.


Yeah, it sure is.


That thing's big when you see them and you, like, think, what would a dog look like there that's when it really dawns on you how big these things are. It's like 150 pound wolf. I'm guessing it might be less, over a hundred, but it's, uh, run down the street like, hey, yeah, like, it's.


Not worried at all. It's like, it's like it's gonna eat your dog. Yeah, it's like, yeah. Especially if you got a little dog. Little dogs in trouble.


Yeah. Elite coyotes, too, by the way. It's gonna kill them, too.


There's a weird, uh, I remember reading this book, I believe it was before the dawn, I believe, by Nicholas Wade. And it's like a book on evolution. And there was a whole chapter about dogs and humans and how we evolved together. But it is this weird thing how, like, so you could look at like a Yorkie or something like that, whatever the mu. And you could go like, well, look, this thing couldn't survive like a second. It couldn't get its own food for a second. And you'd be like, well, isn't this like a flaw in evolution or something? But then you also realize that you could argue that it's basically one the evolutionary race, because it has this human species that just does all of the work for them.


Carries it.


Yeah, literally carries it. Cleans its ass, puts food down for it. And you're like, oh, yeah, this did work out pretty well for that thing.


Worked out great.


It is.


It's gonna work out great for men, too.


Yeah. I don't know. But who gets to be in?


Here's a good question. Would it go back to wolves? So, like, imagine if there was some sort of apocalyptic scenario. All the power went off. Most human beings are dead, but a lot of dogs survive.


I think, like, I think, you know, my guess, and this is a totally, like, just, like, just keep in mind I'm an idiot. I have no idea what I'm talking about. But I think, like, if you're making an argument, would a german shepherd would eventually, like, if they were just left out of the. Would it just breed, like, the harshest and toughest and most survivors? Maybe not wolf, but you'd get some wolf like creature. That Yorkie isn't going to make it to generation two. I've seen Yorkies. A hawk's going to take that.


Yorkies aren't going to make it. But the dogs that are probably the closest to wolves probably would make it.




Especially in cold climates. Right? So now they're outdoors. So now huskies and things that are pretty Lakitas kind of wolfish wolf like ish.


Well, you'd come up with some badass version of them that are killers again, that wouldn't be trained. It'd be almost like they're not kept in childhood. They'd become kind of grown ups again.


What is that? One crazy russian dog. I know we've talked about it before. This is one huge. They use them to fight off wolves. These are like, to protect flocks. Yeah. Caucasian shepherd. Show me some images of the caucasian shepherd. It's fucking enormous. Look what that thing looks like. So, but show me some images. Okay. They. They look fucking terrifying. They look like super wolves. Like, it's just like this. Look at that giant fucking thing. So that went the other way. Like they developed something that can fuck wolves up. And because they needed something to protect their. Their flocks, they needed someone to protect their sheep and shit. So. Look at that size of that fucking thing, bro. That thing's so huge. I think they're like 200 pounds and they have fur everywhere. So they're probably really hard to bite. Look at the size of that thing where it's hopping on that lady's shoulders. Good lord. So there's another one, that other one, the Caucasian. That one, I think, is even more ferocious. I think I might be wrong, bro. Fucking size of that thing, though. Look at the size. Even with perspective, look at that thing.


Yeah. These are very ferocious. Tibetan mastiff. Yes, I see your tibetan mastiff. I raise you this right. Tibetan mastiffs are another crazy looking animal, too, dude.


That guy. That guy looks like the guy who would have those dogs.


Look at that thing. If you're a wolf, you're like, ah, fuck. It's basically the Brock Lesnar of wolves. You know, everybody else is a welterweight, and this motherfucker shows up.


Yeah, you better. You better heel. Hook that wolf.


Yeah, bro, you. You're done. That thing, you can't. You're not even gonna get through all that fur to bite him. Yeah, it's like a lion's mane. It's like, literally like, there to protect from the cold and bites.


It really does look like what the Russians would do with a dog. Of course that's what you did. Well, we're making little poodle mixtures over here. The Russians are coming up. You're like, ah, shit. We should have been doing that.


Of course, the French should have been.


Doing that this whole time. You're telling me we can't produce munitions like the Russians, and our dogs have to fight those dogs. War goes down.


Imagine. Yeah, I think we covered it all. Dave Smith, anything else?


Well, I think that that should save the world for now.


This is not, it's a long, it's a process.


There's gonna be many podcasts do this.


A thousand times to save the old world, and the new world's gonna be unstoppable.


That's fear. Well, I gotta tell you, I'm almost at the point with this world where I'm like, huh, let's roll the dice on this new, these new overlords.


Well, hopefully things will balance out and be much more logical when they're not run by humans.


Well, I still, I still believe in humans. I think the monopoly, the monopoly of information is broken. Ron Paul will become president within the next ten years.


He will reverse his age.


He will. That's right.


That's what they do. They just put Ron now also, we can do that.


If we can get, if we can get Ron Paul young again, then this country's got a good chance.


Ron Paul needs to get on some daily nad drips and start testosterone therapy and get on the peptides and NMN. Got to change his vitamin routine. I'm pretty good.


He's doing pretty good. He's almost, I think he's 89, 88, something like that, and very coherent and he's on top of it.




And every time, every time his show comes on, it's like, he's like, okay, here's the latest of what's going on in China. And like, knows everything. Like he's just read everything about this happening.


Extraordinary. Dave Smith, you're the fucking man.


I love you, brother.


It's always great to talk to you and stay offline for a couple days. It's going to get ugly. Bye, everybody.