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The Joe Rogan Experience.

Train my day. Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day.

Welcome, dude.

Very nice to meet you.

Yeah, good to be here, man.

So let's take first of all, why do we love conspiracy so much? Because I fucking love them, dude. I love them. I love finding out the dirty little tactics and secrets and how the government does things and what the fuck's really going on. Why is it so exciting?

I think it's something like deep down in humanity is like, we love storytelling.

Yeah.

And. And these days conspiracy theories are like, we. I mean, 10 years ago, conspiracy theories were fringe and they were problematic.

Tell me about it.

Right?

I was a conspiracy theorist way back in the day. When you were a fucking nut, dude.

You're a conspiracy theorist. When I was not even here yet.

I was arguing with people about the moon landing on the radio before the fucking. Where there was any podcasts.

I mean, maybe there's some of the mystery element, but the thing is that so many of them are. It's. It's a knowledge, it's a thirst for knowledge. Because some of them are total bullshit, but some of them are clearly there's something there.

Clearly.

Right?

Yeah.

And realistically, if you had like the journalists of integrity from 1960s era alive today, and they hadn't been bought out and shot in the head and whatever else happened, dude, they would be in the 60s.

They were compromised.

Well, they were getting bought out.

The big one is Woodward with the Watergate story.

Oh, yeah.

Did you see Bill Murray when I had Bill Murray in here the other day?

I haven't watched it yet. No.

Bob Woodward wrote Wired, which is about John Belushi. Bill Murray read five pages of it and he said, holy shit, they framed Nixon. He said the Bob Woodward story about Belushi was so full of shit. It was so exaggerated and fake and just filled with nonsense. He's like, john Belushi was a lightweight. He goes, john Belushi would drink three beers and he'd be drunk. He goes, it was probably the first speedball he ever took and he died from it. Like, this whole thing about him being this raving drug fueled maniac was totally fabricated.

It's a good example of how the mainstream narrative had Nixon as a crook. And he's just one of many examples, right. And when you really start to look into it, you realize, I mean, probably not the greatest guy, but what was the real story there and what were they framing? Why are they trying to get him out?

Yeah, no, this is not a Defense of Nixon. Nixon was not a great guy. But Tucker thinks that Nixon knew too much about the JFK assassination and wanted to talk about it. And he started saying, I know who killed jfk. And he started yapping and they were like, let's get this motherfucker out of here. And also one of the terms that he had agreed to to run for president was Gerald Ford, who was on the fucking Warren Commission.

Bingo.

Gerald Ford as his vp. So Gerald Ford becomes the first ever non elected president. He slips in, he becomes president for kind of a bullshit term and does.

A whole bunch of war party things and just a whole bunch of bullshit.

And we decide that Nixon was the real problem with the country.

I mean how often is it that they're allowing someone that they aren't sure about to get to president and they're putting, they're sticking them with a VP that is their guy. Right. Like LBJ with jfk. Dick Cheney, Dick Cheney, everybody secret that.

Well, Pence was a. I don't know.

What the hell to think about. Mike Pence is like a preacher.

I think he was good to get.

The, the religious super rhino. Super like. Yeah.

Weird guy.

Yeah. But I mean Trump is a weird guy too. Like who knows what's going on with Trump right now.

He's an animal. Yeah, he's the most fun.

I love Trump conspiracy theories because people get so riled up and it's so partisan and political, but within it there's all this like juicy like meat for thinking about. It's like not even conspiracy theories. It's just like his history.

Right.

And especially with the Epstein stuff now and his history with Epstein, it just gets me so interested in. You'll never know the real story.

But here's the thing about theories and stuff. There's so many things that are so weird that you would think, wait a minute, well this can't be real. This is fake.

Yep.

And, and then it's connected to real life events in some sort of a way that you would think there's a conspiracy. Like here's the. One of my favorites is little Barron Trump's.

Yeah, dude, I just got the book. It just came in the mail. Have you read it? No, dude, I'm gonna read it. I just got it.

I should buy it. I should buy a book before it gets bought.

I got it in a three part series that has the, the Barron Trump one and then the Last President and there's one other one.

And then how about the Werner Von Brau about a guy named Elon that takes us to Mars. He wrote Werner von Braun, the fucking Nazi who ran, you know, Operation Paperclip and became the head of NASA.

Super occultist kind of stuff.

Like novel about a guy named Elon that takes us to Mars. And even Elon saw that and he's like, is this real? Like, like you would think there's no way.

Simultaneous to us kind of getting like some version of UAP disclosure that implies time travel.

Yeah.

Which is like, lord knows what that is. But it's just so fun to speculate because it's like, how would we know?

Yeah, how would we know? And the whole UAP thing, boy, you want to find a cauldron of bullshit? That's the cauldron. Do you know who's got the best take on it? Is Jacques Vallee. I'm in the middle.

Seen a lot of his stuff.

My third book of his right now. And it's. I'll tell you what it's called.

Yeah, I should read some.

He's the best.

Why do you say he's the best? Like, what's your qualifier there?

I'm on this one. Confere documentations, which is one of a three part series of human interactions that have been documented with some sort of an invader from some other dimension or planet or whatever the fuck it is. He is the most rational, he's the most analytical, he's the least likely to buy into horseshit. But not dismissive.

That's like strange critical balance, right?

Yes. Well, he's the guy that they modeled the French scientist in Close Encounters of the Third Kind after. So he's been in this game since the 60s investigating these things.

And time in the game counts for a ton. It counts for so. And that's my greatest weakness in a lot of ways, among several, is that I'm just really new to the game. And so I'm constantly like catching up on shit. And if stuff breaks, right. Like, like Pam Bondi, for example. I have no history on who Pam Bondi is because I wasn't paying attention when Pam Bondi was in Florida. And so I'm having to like play catch up on what was going on.

Right.

And the people that have been here for forever, like the Alex Jones of this world, the Jacques Valle, is the people that like watch things break live. You just get a different level of context. And then you get like the David Ickes that are like. It's fucking reptiles, dude. They're all reptiles. David. Have you seen David, Ike, coming after me on Twitter recently?

He came after me too.

I Love it.

Make fun of the reptile thing. And it's like, why won't you have me on?

I genuinely really appreciate it. It's like a good time, but it's like, maybe there are reptiles. I don't know.

He went too far in time where there was no Internet.

Yeah.

You know, he went too far.

You get too certain of yourself. Right. You think you have the answers and you just keep going.

A little bit of a grift.

Yeah.

With some of these folks, I'm not saying necessarily him, but it's a little bit of a grift.

Well, it's. It's an easy temptation to fall into, especially with the Internet, like every single day. People in my position, I mean, people in your position too, like, we have the ability to just like, I'm going to get views and money if I drop deep down this grift. But a lot of them are not like a lot of them. When you look into them, you realize, oh, there's like literally nothing there.

There's a bunch of stuff that's clickbait horseshit for sure.

Or at least there's probably nothing there.

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The one that I just recently kind of was reminded of is, you know, that the story that they. That Disney sent kids to Epstein Island.

Yeah.

Such a money conspiracy theory. It's not true.

It's.

When you look it up, you realize that. That, I mean, a lot of the information is kind of gone. It's hard to even tell if it's legitimate websites and information, which is already a red flag. But the ones that are still up, they just sent them into, like, the ocean. Like they were going on cruises that happen to be in the vicinity of the island. That's totally different.

Which is in a very popular vacation destination.

And so it becomes this, like. And. And that's kind of the. I think that's the fun part of the game.

We thought about buying the island, dude. When the island was for sale, we talked about it for a second. Let's put some of that Spotify money to use. That would be funny.

I think they would have stopped you, dude. I think someone would have stopped you.

100%.

Me. Yeah.

I can't shut the.

Underneath that island.

No doubt. There's gotta be something on that island that's incriminating. And also, what's in the wal. What's in the walls of the buildings. Like, I would get into the wiring. I'd bring in pros.

Oh, yeah.

I'd be like, tell me what's under the dirt. I'd scan the floors. Yeah.

Lidar, the ocean floor and the surrounding miles.

Also, he's dead. So if he ever hid some in there, no one knows where it is.

Yep.

They're gonna raise that building.

I assume he's dead. But there was so much, like, so much around it that, like, I don't feel 100 sure. I feel like 95 sure that he's dead. 98 sure that he's dead.

Right. I wouldn't go 100 either.

Ye. You know what I'm saying? It's like, there's very few things I feel.

But they did do an autopsy. You'd have to.

But they did an autopsy on jfk too, and it was not his body.

Well, sort of. They did two autopsies, right? They. They. Well, they did the initial examination of the body was in Dallas, and then they flew it to Bethesda.

Yeah.

The thing about that is. And this is a part of David Lifton's book Best Evidence, which made me become a conspiracy theorist.

I've never read it.

It's fucking great. And David Lifton, who is an accountant, they gave Him. I forget what the project was, but it was something to do with the Warren Commission Report. So this guy's like a serious bookworm. He read the entire Warren Commission, which fucking nobody does.

Yep.

And it's like 9,000 pages.

That's a superpower, being able to read like that.

Exactly. And find contradictions over and over and over again. He's like, this is horseshit. This whole thing's horseshit. And then he found out that Kennedy's brain was missing when it got all the way to Bethesda. He found out that the Dallas doctors said that the neck wound was an entry wound. And then the ones in Bethesda turned it into a tracheotomy hole. It was a bullet hole. He got shot. You could see him go like that.

Garbage all over the place. And then you can also see his face get blown off. And they published photos of him from the official autopsy where his face was visible.

I have a theory, and this is just mine.

Yeah, I'm really curious.

I'm sure I'm not the only one. I think he got shot in the head at the same time from two different directions.

That's a good theory, honestly.

Because there's a bit of spray that goes forward, which is not gen. Like, things are weird when you hit them with bullets. Like people have shot people in the head and the bullets come out their eye.

Yeah.

Like ricochets around like a.22 or something like that. But weird things happen when you shoot things. But some things are super consistent. And one thing that's super consistent is when you hit something, it goes in the direction that you hit it. Right. So back into the left. Hicks used to talk about that all the time. Back into the left. Making fun of the fact that this Pruder film clearly show that it wasn't a shot from the back, but the head goes spray, too. It goes spray like this, back into the left. Can we see it? Let's see it real quick. Yeah.

Something I love about the JFK story is that there are so many deep experts that have really done the dig, and they don't all come to the same conclusions.

Well, here's the thing about Lifton's book. He also documents how many witnesses were murdered. And it's astounding.

That's the. That's all these left off, too.

Their cars got parked on railroad tracks and they died of heart attacks when they were 30. And they got shot in a robbery and they committed suicide. The gas. They fell asleep in their car.

Man, Hillary Clinton sure got started early.

Yeah. Back into the left. Watch this, watch this. The explosion.

Yeah, because he's already hitting the neck. You're totally right. It's like a cloud in front. Right.

I mean, it could be that the top of his head exploded right there and the force drives him back. It also could. There is. There's another possibility. And the possibility is spontaneous nerve reaction of your body shutting down, which could cause you to go back into the left, even if you get shot in the front. Yeah, but the thing is, the spray, or if you get shot in the back, rather, the spray looks like it's going forward. Like, we'll watch when he gets hit. See that?

Yep. It's just weird.

But that could be. But the thing is, there's not a bullet hole on the other side. So that could be just the opening of the head, and it's an explosion of blood that comes out. Also, you have to realize he's probably bleeding internally already. He got shot in the neck, so he gets shot here. There's probably blood spraying all over the place inside of his head. And then boom, he gets shot in the front of his head. But his head clearly goes back into the left, like, almost instantaneously. I mean, in a way that you would imagine if you got. If someone got hit like that. Watch this again. Boom.

Catch on that frame and then back, and it's all gone. Like, his face is just clearly open. Right.

Gone. Right.

And it's clearly not a shot from behind. I mean, like, it's definitely not.

It's definitely not a shot from behind because there's no entry wound in the back, the back of his head. And if you're saying that that thing hit the front of his head or the side of his head from behind.

Like that, I. I feel like if there was a conspiracy theorist training course, the JFK assassination would be like the perfect, like, dry run training course to, like, build it around. Because you have all the pieces. You have, like, you have a complex conspiracy with unknown actors from intelligence agencies and organized crime and maybe multiple governments. It's like. And we don't know that all that. Then you have a complex cover up that evolved over time. You have, like, researchers, you have bad information being fed in from outside. You have conspiracy theorists that are taking it in directions that are unlike, corroborable. It's got all the things that you need to both learn how to dig into and learn how to watch out for. It's a lot of fun.

Well, and also, people didn't really get serious about it until about 12 years after the Assassination. So when Geraldo Rivera has Dick Gregory on his show. Oh, what is this?

It's done.

It's restored.

Whoa. Have you guys ever heard the theory that frames were taken out of this approuter film to make it look like the car never slowed down?

That's crazy.

That's bizarre. The thing is, I don't know how to trust things like AI reconstructions of videos.

Let's just trust it, bro. It's fine.

Boom.

Oh, my goodness.

Dude.

Crazy.

So.

Oh, my God. That's so crazy.

The theory about the driver shooting him. That's the one I've never bought, honestly.

No, no.

People always say the driver turned around and shot him.

I think that's one of those theories that probably the government created.

Yeah, that's where there's an open piece of evidence, stupid. There's an open piece of evidence of some kids that showed up covered in mud at a. At a car shop that they worked at, that it was like, a dry day. They showed up covered in mud. And this. There's a certain guy that theorized that they were hiding in a manhole and shot up at him out of the manhole and that they. The car slows down in real. In real life. And that witnesses saw the car slow down and that there's dropped frames from this. A pruder film. And it's like, these are these kinds of theories where it's like. It's like, how do you dig into that and, like, prove that? And the answer is you have to get to primary sources. You have to get to, like, is there a police report for that kid showing up? Like, is there. Is that location real? Like, can you corroborate any of this?

Right.

And the unfortunate truth is you could, if you could, fudgeing see the files that our government was hiding from us.

Right. Theoretically, they're supposed to be released soon. Have some patience.

They're releasing tomorrow. Joe, can you.

Is that real?

No.

It's like, every day's Christmas.

Yeah.

For real. Can you Google David Lifton witnesses of the JFK assassination odds? Because he did some sort of a calculation of the odds of all these people dying the way they die.

Yeah, dude.

And it's. It's millions to one. Yeah, it's nuts. That's a big part of what I.

Do is, is it. How likely is it that this is a coincidence? Is it even possible? Right, right.

That one's very unlikely. Which means they were killing witnesses. Someone was killing witnesses. I think there was people shooting from the back and the front. I think Lee Harvey Oswald. People want to say it's one or zero. I think Lee Harvey Oswald was in on it. I think Lee Harvey Oswald probably didn't shoot the president, though. But he might have. He might have hit him in the back because there was a shot in the back, too. You know the whole reason why they had to call this a tracheotomy is the same reason why they had to come up with a single bullet theory.

Exactly. Yeah.

So you're.

You got to explain it. Well, I'm not. I'm. I'm.

You know about the ricochet underneath the overpass?

Yeah. So, yeah, like, I'm deep enough to know the basics, but there's so many layers. And you have to read the books, you have to watch the films, you have to, like, you got to talk. Exactly.

Oliver Stone just goes off.

And that's why I was curious to hear your takes, because you've actually talked to these people.

Oliver Stone's the best because he's been studying this for ever. And he can tell you exactly what's going on with Dulles. And.

And he's not just been studying it forever. He's been studying the actual primary source documents themselves and, like, reading the real archives that are released.

And then there's a wild connection between Jolly west and Jack Ruby.

Oh, yeah. Jolly west is crazy. Have you read Chaos yet? Yeah, dude. So I didn't know about Neoli until I read Chaos, and then I started digging it because I knew about MK Ultra. I'm like, I have been learning about MK Ultra when I was a kid, like, doing psychedelics, but I didn't really understand anything about that history or anything around the CIA back then, they ran.

The Haight Ashbury Free Clinic.

Oh, yeah.

And they closed it down after Chaos came out.

No way.

Yes way. So just recently, the entire time they had been running this clinic. It's not like they were running the clinic. And they said, you know what? Let's not run the clinic anymore. Let's just give it directly.

70S are over.

The peace and war bullshit or peace and love bullshit. That's over.

Yeah. One of the conspiracy theories, that's.

Yes, it's coming out this week.

Really? This week?

Tom O'Neill is my friend. Greg's longtime friend and former. Well, I think they're still neighbors, but they were neighbors in New York, and then they were neighbors in California.

That's a cool neighbor.

Been. Yeah, very cool neighbor. But this guy's been working on this one fucking story for 20 years, you imagine? Just.

I don't understand People like that just.

Going crazy for 20 years.

No, I'm a generalist and I rely on people like that because I could never stay with something for that long.

No, he, he could have wrote and written many other books on the exact same subject. He can keep going. Like part two more. I know. Part three more. I know.

He could have written a book about each of those, like each of those sketchy dudes that he had questions about, each of those CIA guys, each of those weird doctors.

How about each time that Manson got away with like committing crimes and the girls too? Yeah. And they're like, oh, it's above our pay grade. So they were paying people to do this. They were giving the Manson family LSD and money. They were allowing them to commit crimes. And the whole idea was just to change the idea what people thought of as hippies and to stop the anti war movement and also to see what they can get away, they could do with.

I suspect they're. I mean, to me the big question is that seems like the first like, like for sure that's going on, right? Is to co opt the hippie. I mean, first the hippie movement probably was to co op the anti war movement that was pretty buttoned up. Like, I suspect that LSD did not just escape the lab. I suspect they were like, quick, turn all these kids into crazy hippies. Like, try this out, try this out, try this out.

Really?

Yeah. So check this out. Have you read Strange Scenes Inside Laurel Canyon?

I started to read it. I have not finished it.

So, I mean, even just the first chapter. Right. So if you take that book's premise, it's basically that before the hippie movement, there was a very powerful organized anti war movement led by a bunch of Quakers, a bunch of black activists, a bunch of, like, my dad was one of them. And it was not this hippie fringe thing. It was a very powerful anti Vietnam protest. And the moment that LSD gets introduced, it becomes all peace and love. And he points out in that book how all of these people, like Frank Zappa, like lead members of the Doors people, organize the Monterey Pop Festival over and over and over. Like, he probably has two to three dozen examples. Specifically, he goes deep into. They all just happen to move from wherever they are all over the world into this area in LA that is not a hotbed for music. And they all just start making music about peace and love and doing lsd. And all of them have parents that are from Special Forces Intelligence Operations, Pentagon. Like some of the, some of the musicians themselves have backgrounds that look exactly like CIA operatives that were doing, like, revolutions in Cuba and overseas.

Like coup in specific.

Like the lead singers, singer of the Bird of the Doors, Jim Morrison, for example. Frank Zappa. So Frank Zappa is one where his dad and his mom were both. Frank Zappa's dad worked at the base that is. That was like the chemical weapons. Like, where they did their chemical weapons research. His dad was a chemical weapons specialist in, like, top secret clearances, which is basically like. When you read about what his dad was, it sounds a lot like what MK Ultra would be. It sounds a lot like what you would. Like drug. They're drug experiments.

And chemical weapons is drug experiments.

Well, chemical is the wrong word. Psychological operations. But it's right there. Like, it's on his Wikipedia page. It's not hard to find these things. What. What that guy did that. I've forgotten who wrote the book. But what he did was not, like, find uncovered evidence that had never been uncovered. He just looked at all these different people whose histories were very public. But he put it all together and realized, like, that's a lot of people that all moved to this one place and all started producing music that was like, all within this one thing. Like Jim Morrison, his dad was the lead commander of the boat that was in the Gulf of Tonkin that started the Vietnam War. That's like kind of a weird coincidence.

Yeah.

And you could definitely make the explanation that kids often rebel against their parents. Right, right. Kids often step out of line and are like, like, fuck the old way.

Right, right.

But a lot of them were ex military, like, directly ex suits and ex CIA.

Was Morrison an ex military?

No, Morrison, I don't believe he was.

Why do you think that he looks like a CIA operative?

No, no, not Morrison. It's. I was saying Frank's at. It's.

He said lead singer. The Doors, too.

No, that was just me giving examples. The guy specifically that he said that had the history. That was. That looked. He was doing a. What looked like color revolutions in Cuba. Because I'm not super familiar with the music of that time. I might forget what band he was in. Might have been the Mamas and the Papas. There was a couple of guys in the Mamas and Papas that he did deep dives in.

But here's the question. You can't. You can't like fake talent, you know, I'm saying, like.

Well, a lot of them didn't write their own songs. Yeah. Look at Diddy, bro.

Good.

Oh, no, Jim. Yeah, some of them were great.

Jim Morrison was Some of them were.

Great and Frank Zappo was great, crazy great.

But this is the thing. It's like you can't like 100%, I don't think. But here's the thing. They could push people with talent that they also could use to further their agenda and make those people more popular than they would be organically and put a lot of emphasis behind it. The reason why this tracks is because what Nixon did so with, with this sweeping psychedelic act of 1970, they passed this, they made mushrooms and all these different things illegal so that they could go after the civil rights activists and the anti war activists and the black.

Shut them all down.

They've shut them all down. Go after them for having these things that were societal disruptors.

It also makes fertile ground for cointelpro when you have things like drugs and drug culture, like fertile ground for cointelpress.

Well, this is the big thing about Jolly west and Manson is that Jolly west allegedly taught Manson how to use psychedelics and manipulate people. And oftentimes when Manson was with the family, apparently he pretended to take LSD and they all took it. And then he would.

And then he did like hypnotism and like weird speeches and like, it really does look like. And the thing is that I respect Tom O'Neill so much because he didn't try to claim things he couldn't prove, right. But he just put it all out there and is like, this is what I'm seeing. And say, think what you think. And it looks to me like, like you're saying that Manson was either directly trained to practice these things and carry them out, or he was sort of like a patsy in the operation that they kind of like gave him the. The setting within which to just go along his megalomaniacal impulses and just kind of kept tabs on him and kept him safe and just kept him going. I think it's. I think he wasn't a part of it. I think he was of how effective he was.

They visited him in prison.

Oh yeah.

This is why I think he's a part of it. I think they've recognized in prison, like, look, you got two choices. You could be in jail for the rest of your fucking life, or we can work for you. We think you're brilliant. We think you're an amazing mind of untapped talent. And, you know, you pray to this narcissist ego and you start telling him things and the next thing you know, he's out there in the street working for you like a little ho.

It's crazy how many people that wind up in these weird positions came out of like you were in prison, then you got released or you were in like, trouble, and then you got. And the girls, like, the girls, it's crazy. Those girls, like some of them had committed some minor crimes, but a lot of them were just regular people. And then suddenly they become like absolute, like murderers, like dark, dark murders. Those were gross.

Well, I think mind control is real, right?

And I think.

I think hypnosis is real. Acid is real. And then the techniques that they've developed over decades of fucking with people with these drugs, they know what to do.

I mean, the dark thing that, I mean, we don't need to go into it because it's real dark. But the. I think that when you study the MK Ultra files and this is where there's a lot of conspiracy theories that are hard to prove. There's a bunch of witness victim testimony, but it's hard to prove is the Monarch programs are an alleged program that never got disclosed. And that's all the programs that are hidden behind child sexual abuse being a part of mind control. Because a lot of the drugs, like, they can break people's minds and they can be involved in mind control. But a lot of those papers talk about dissociative identity, Identity disorder as like the holy grail of that Manchurian Candidate concept. And it makes a lot of sense if you know what, just how dissociative identity disorder works, right. And that is most commonly associated with dark, grim childhood sexual abuse. And then you get all these victim testimonies, hundreds and hundreds of people these days talking about how they are, were a part of these programs, like people that were on Epstein's island that claimed to have been victimized as children and, and put subjected to mind control experiments paired with childhood sexual abuse.

It's just so hard to believe that people are that evil. But they have been throughout history. This is why it's weird. It's like we'll look back on the Victorian era or we'll look back on the, you know, the, the man boy love of the, you know, Socrates era. We'll go. That's just back then we've evolved. Now we don't have anymore. Yeah, yeah, but when the. When they've identified specific aspects of traumatic past that they can use these particular victims of trauma, of childhood trauma and take them and turn them into weapons.

Yep.

That's so wild. But, but that's. That is an asset, right? If you got someone who's so fucking crazy, you could Talk to them and get them to do things and give them acid and get them to Sir Hans Orhan levels or whatever the fuck they did to Jack Ruby. UFC 313 is back in Vegas. It won't be paradise for one of the light heavyweights in the main event. Don't miss on any of the action at DraftKings sportsbook. The official sports betting partner of the UFC, Alex Pereira, defends his light heavyweight title against Magomed Ankala. But that's just the cherry. On top of an amazing night of fights, it's super easy for first timers to get started. Try betting on something simple like picking a fighter to win. Just go to DraftKings sportsbook app, select your fighter and place your first bet. It's that simple. And if you're new to DraftKings, listen up. New customers bet $5 to get $150 in bonus bets instantly. Download the DraftKings sportsbook app now and use the Code Rogan. That's Code Rogan for new customers to get $150 in bonus bets. When you bet just five bucks only on DraftKings, the crown is yours.

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Like in jail. Yeah.

And the craziest thing is that we've been living in a world where for. For all of our history, until the Internet and really until recent Internet history, they could do those things and just not have anyone report on it and so no one would ever even know. And I think that there's this feeling that the world is so dark right now because we're learning everything.

Exactly.

And I actually take the opposite view. I think that we're. The light is being shown and the world is super dark. There's all kinds of crazy horrible people, but there's all kinds of crazy good people. Everything in between.

Yeah.

And by. You have to shine the light on it all before you can fix it.

Absolutely right. And I think that's one of the more fascinating Things about the fact that this is a weird time for uncovering federal corruption.

Right.

And I think they're in real trouble because I don't think they can use their phones. I don't think they can do the things that they used to be able to do.

That's a good point.

And I don't think they're united.

I hadn't thought about that.

This is what I.

They're definitely not united.

Right.

100%.

There's rats in that ship.

Oh, yeah.

There's rats in that ship. And I think everybody's scared. And so everybody's worried that people wearing camera buttons.

And so it is the era of secret cameras too.

And they're also selfish. Fuck. So they're all for themselves. So they probably demonstrated that all throughout these relationships they've had with other people. So nobody trusts anybody.

Yep. I mean, that's the nature of politics.

And you can't use your phone.

Nope.

You can't use your email. You can't. You. You probably can't even talk with Alexa in the house.

Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no. I mean, I'm at the point where I'm starting to get like. I'm not literally that paranoid, but there are. I've had some conversations in terms of like, people that want to leak a story, which I totally. I normally just avoid because I don't want to touch it. But every now and then I'm like, let's go on a walk. Because I don't want to hear what you have to say around any of this shit. Because I know it's being recorded. I know it can be listening.

Do you have a crazy phone or use your phone?

No, it's just an iPhone. Yeah. I'm aspiring to get one of those, like one of the Erik Prince phones or something like that.

That's when you've reached the next level of conspiracy, when you get a de Googled phone.

And I don't.

Doesn't have 5G. You'll use 4.

Yeah. But the way I look at it is. So I intentionally do all of my stuff. I basically do open source investigations. I don't try to like, break news stories.

Right.

Because it's way safer and it's way more interesting. And I don't. My goal is not to like, to like, know everything or to be some great journalist. My goal is to inspire everybody else, like to inspire the world to think a little more and to be more critical and to look it up for yourself.

Well, you're also serving a function like a service for People. Because what you're doing is you're taking all the time to find all this open source and then putting it out there.

Yeah.

And you're really thorough about it. You say, this is what I know. Yeah.

Yeah. You've also wrong.

You started doing this thing with your hand above your head. People steal that now.

Yeah. Like. Well, it's because TikTok's green screen. And the way you do, one finger gets taken away. TikTok will delete one finger if I'm pointing with one finger because it's a green screen app. And so I'm like using the camera and it's got in. In my camera, it's putting the thing behind me, but it's cutting out me. And if I only use one finger, it cuts my whole hand away. So I started doing this just because the green screen, when it's like trying to analyze what is a body and what is the background, it'll take away my hand as though it's the background.

Oh, how weird. So you started pointing.

I haven't gone all the way to doing this at the screen yet, but I see a lot of people that.

Are doing exactly your way. So that's why they're doing.

I mean, to be fair, I've. I've had a level of success that is unprecedented. And people call me a controlled opposition because of it. And it's like fair. Like, it's like, whatever, dude. Like, if I was in all of their seats, I would probably be like, where did this dude come from? But at a certain point, it's like an intense level of.

You're talking to Captain Controlled Opposition over here. I know people think that I'm controlled opposition.

Yeah, it's.

That whole term is funny because there's got to be real controlled opposition. That's why it's. That's why it's a term.

Because it's a war, dude.

Yeah, well, it's a.

It's crazy out here.

The valid strategy.

Yep.

I think you could figure it out after a while.

Yeah. And for me, for me, it's really interesting because. And you know this too, you've been in this game for. Forever, is when you actually get to meet people in real life. You learn things about them. You get that vibe of them is not. And it's not impenetrable. You can be fooled, but, like, how much can you fool? And can you fool all your employees all the time? Like, Alex Jones is a great example. People call him controlled opposite. Like, he's bought by the Jews. He's Bought by the commies. He's bought by the. And it's like, cool. But I know all of his staff and I've hung out with them and like, you've known him over years and years. Like, is he faking his entire life? Like, I've been on his show. I've seen what he was doing.

The exact same thing when no one was listening.

Exactly.

He was on the public radio.

Yeah.

Alex has been saying he's been talking about this stuff since the 90s. And I've known him since 90. I guess I met him in 99.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I learned the other day that he started Infowars. Like he officially founded Infowars, like, when I was 2 years old or something like that. It blew my brains. It was like, what.

The first video of his that really woke me up was the video he did on the World Trade Organization protests in Seattle when he showed that there was these groups of masked men who dressed in military uniforms at military. Military issue shoes. They all had the same shit on. And they all ran around in this peaceful protest for the World Trade Organization and started smashing things and lighting things on fire and creating chaos, which allowed the police to then move in. Then these people all holed up in one house, they negotiate with the police and they were all released.

Weird.

Yeah.

Almost sounds like a few events of the last couple years, you know?

Yeah. Well, sounds like Patriot Front, which just went under. They went under the day.

For real.

Yeah.

After USAID was cut.

No, right after Cash Patel gets in.

Okay, Cash Patel, let's go.

Pull that up. Pull that up.

Let's go.

Because there's a video of Patriot Front and me and Matt Taibbi, I go, they're Feds. I go, it's me yelling, where's the fat people?

They're all.

They're all wearing the same uniform. One guy's got a drum the fuck out of here. These are feds. These are feds. The day after Cash Patel gets in, they disband.

Funny how that. I mean, that's a. I'm. I'm interested in, like, looking for, like right now with all these new people coming in, Cash and Pam and all, like, all the picks. Rfk. I'm really enjoying the process of just trying to watch their actions and trying to figure out who's doing what and how much are they going to play to the money and play to the people. And it's just such a fascinating exercise in journalism of where do you kind of. And how much leeway do you give them? How Much grace do you give them, especially with the Epstein blackmail hanging as a cloud over the entire federal government. I don't think that any of those three are blackmailed, but I don't feel confident that I know that they're not.

Let's look at it. Here's a possibility other than blackmail. Negotiation.

Well, that's always a factor.

But instead of blackmail, if you are a government and you have information on someone who's an asset debt, or someone who's very wealthy and this person is a, hey, motherfucker. Like, what are you doing? You're 26 times. Yeah, how about you shut the fuck up from here out. No more Trump's Hitler.

Well, that's the definition of blackmail.

How about you say that we did a good job every now and again? Give us a little credit. Let's work something out here. It's not necessarily blackmail as much as it's negotiation. How would argue blackmail?

Distinguishable, Right?

Unless you're getting money too. Like, you know, I know.

No, blackmail is just. I. I know something that you don't want out. And, and any level of threatening that it'll get out or, you know, okay.

What if it goes the other way? What if the wealthy person contacts them and says, listen, I can make things very good for you. I can do this, I can do that. If I go to jail. This is not helping anybody.

Oh, a hundred percent. Yeah, yeah. Reverse.

Yeah, that's the opposite. That. So that's bribery, I guess, kind of.

It's just kind of. That's right. That's deal making. But I think that a lot of Epstein's targets were willing. I think that a lot of them. Because I think that we're talking. It's not just Jeffrey Epstein. It's organized crime as a network. Like, he's just an employee of organized crime.

Right.

And I think that a lot of those people are basically saying, yeah, I want into the club. Because if you are like a Reid Hoffman or allegedly, if you're one of those guys and you want more contracts or you want more deals, like, allegedly. And like, let's be clear, just because I say something on Joe's podcast does not mean that Joe fucking agrees with me. Cnn. Thank you. Because, like, I'm a crazy fucker and I got all kinds of theories about Epstein, but, like, I think that a lot of them were willing because I think a lot of them are. I mean, if you're sick enough to rape a child, like on Jeffrey Epstein's island, you're sick enough to want into that club.

Well, for sure. Throughout history there have been pedophiles. That's a fact. For sure. Some pedophiles get to prominent positions of power. That's a fact. Right.

And the Jimmy Saville traits that do the same, like Jimmy Savile in fucking.

England, like that, that should put it out to bed for anybody.

Prince Andrew, allegedly.

I don't know about him. I never heard that. But the Sandusky I've heard, you never.

Heard about Bill Gates.

I didn't know he was into kids.

Oh, dude. I mean, he's one of Epstein's closest confidants.

And here's the thing about the Epstein thing. Weren't they a lot? Were they all underage? Were some of them?

Not at all, no. It's very complex.

Right. And some of them were in their twenties. Like one girl who was complaining, or I shouldn't say complaining, that's very mild. One girl who. Alleging that she was. She was 20 at the time, she was saying.

Yeah.

So just because someone has been to the island and has been compromised. Right. Doesn't mean that they've been compromised with underage people. But I think there's a specific group that wants underage people.

Oh, 100%.

Right. And the reason why I say this is not a conspiracy theory, it has been that way throughout history, all of history. There are many, many, many conspiracies that have been uncovered and criminal investigations have found that people were trafficking children. It's been done. So this is not like vampires?

No, no.

We're not talking about werewolves.

Child trafficking, like child trafficking rings get exposed and brought down relatively frequently, like at least once a year. But they usually don't make big news because they're usually not like abstinence.

We know there are pedophiles. That's a real thing. We know there are psychos who get very wealthy and want specific things. Look, there's people that drink rhino horn tea.

Exactly.

Right. Why do they drink rhino horn tea? Because the rhino is so endangered, it's so gangster to have rhino elite experience. Exactly.

And what you're talking about is this, it's such an important concept, is that some people, like if you wanted to pay for an underage prostitute, people can. You can pay for that. There are people, there are women that would be prostitutes, underage. The people that, that we're talking about in the Epstein files that were. That wanted underage girls specifically because they weren't all underage, some of them wanted overage girls. Some of them were just scientists. They weren't all compromised but the ones that wanted underage girls, they specifically want what they couldn't have. Because if you wanted sex that you're allowed to have, you just wanted a young girl, you could just go pay for that. That what Epstein was doing is he was recruiting girls that were from like American families and kind of tricking them and coercing them. Like, they wanted a girl that they wanted the experience of coercing. Some of these people, not all of them want the experience of I'm, I am doing this to a girl that I am coercing. I'm. I am manipulating or I'm just straight up being physically violent too, to get this thing. Because if you wanted a willing 16 year old, those do exist.

And the thing about these really wealthy, high profile people, and you know, Eric Weinstein was highlighting this to me once. He was saying, smart dude, I like that. He wasn't making any accusations at all, but he was just talking. Overall, he goes, I think there are people out there that can facilitate experiences for discreet clients. And it's very valuable. Like, look at the guy who gave Epstein that house in Manhattan. He gave him the.

You mean Leslie Wexner?

Yeah, the guy from Victoria's Secrets. He gave him a 60 million dollar mansion.

He did way more than that. He signed his entire power of attorney to him.

You're so cool. I'm gonna give you a house.

No, he gave him the. He gave him the keys to the entire castle of all of Victoria's Secret and Abercrombie and Fitch and all of El Brain.

When you find out that people who worked at Nickelodeon are pedophiles, you go.

Oh, well, foot fetishist, no less.

Right. If you're gonna be a pedophile, wouldn't you go be around kids? Like, if you could be and sneak around. Okay. Wouldn't you think that here, Sasha Baron Cohen thought he had exposed pedophile ring while filming who is America? Oh, that's right. That's right. I forgot about that. Concierge said they can, they could do something.

We can help you.

Yeah, yeah.

Things happen out at like, it's kind of crazy. Do you remember Andrew Breitbart got killed?

I do remember.

And he got. He was exposing a heart attack. Exactly. He was exposing ACORN because. So how. Oh, man, I'm totally blanking on our boy these days that does all the. Yeah, you know that James O'Keefe got his start with, with Breitbart on that story exposing ACORN. And what they did is they sent James O'Keefe and this other female reporter into ACORN and. Which is.

Pretended to be a pimp.

He. Well, they. They asked them for help setting a underage sex trafficking ring. And the people at acorn, I didn't know was underage. Yeah, yeah, that was the. They wanted to. They. They wanted help setting up an underage sex trafficking ring using children from Guatemala or from Central America.

Did they say that in the meeting?

They. Yeah, yeah, it's on. That was what was on tape.

What?

Yeah, it's a crazy. It blew my mind when I read it. I was like, what are we talking about right now? Because I didn't know that history, because I had. I wasn't paying attention back then. And that's. That is. The story is that he went in and asked for help setting up a under. I don't think he was like. I don't think he was probably using the words like 5 year olds, 10 year olds. I assume that he was, like, implying like 16 year olds, but I don't know. But that's.

How did he phrase it?

I. I don't know. It's not. You can't. I mean, I can't find those videos anymore. I've looked. Really. I'm sure they're somewhere. And I'm sure that James O'Keefe could tell the story.

What happened with him and Project Veritas, I don't know.

I have no idea. And it's a whole drama fest. And I try to stay. I mean, I usually try to stay out of the drama in the modern industry because it's like, it'll just waste time.

Drama. There's drama inside the drama industry.

Drama in every industry, dude.

There's drama in the drama class.

But yeah, they like, like, they. He went in and asked for help setting up this ring and they allegedly said, yeah, here's how you do it. We'll help you. We'll help you. Help you. And that's what the case they brought against ACORN was right before Andrew Breitbart mysteriously died. And then the coroner that did his autopsy mysteriously died. It's like such a. That was such a weird one to stumble upon because I didn't know I was about to stumble upon it. Yeah. And people can look. I mean, everyone should look up anything that I say. Always. People should always just look it up and just start typing things in that I'm saying and see if. What if you can figure it out and what you think. Because I am not an expert, I'm just a dude that, like, is looking things up and I try to be.

Really thorough, but, like, wasn't Breitbart. Was it Breitbart or Drudge that was the first victim of these coordinated anti advertising campaigns?

I'm not sure I know what you mean by that. Where advertisers all pull out to try to tank you. Like what they said, Elon.

Exactly.

I don't know.

They do it strategically. They.

I think it was done to both probably, but I don't know.

But I think the first one, the first one that they did it on, I think it was Breitbart. I think Breitbart was on this like super rapid upward trajectory and they just completely tanked the revenue. Was it Breitbart or is it. Do you remember Jamie. Me who was talking to us about that the other day? Was it Chase Hughes? Who was. Might have been.

It is interesting how you can watch out over history. The more history you learn, the more you get to see where certain strategies, like kind of like deep state strategy, so to speak, or intelligence agency strategies get invented and then they start using them.

Might have been Mike Benz.

Might be a Mike Ben's thing to say for sure. Sounds like Mike. He knows his. Yeah, yeah, he knows a lot from 2017.

Okay. Breitbart+ lost 90% of its advertisers in two months. That's what it is.

Yeah.

Who's still there? So this was. So this is the Washington Post making it seem like this is a normal thing.

Yeah.

Oh, look, they lost all their frame. People pulled out because they're full of.

It's just another frame game.

No, they all coordinated to try to boycott them and kill them.

It's so crazy to have all of this, these tactics exposed in plain view now, and they still keep trying them. Did you see the thing that's going around today of the 22 different mainstream news sites all parroting the exact same thing?

Well, not just that. All the Congress people.

Yeah.

Do you see that? They're all saying the exact same thing.

Yeah, I guess it's Congress people, not news anchors. It's just that now everyone is a. It's.

It's fucking Pelosi and Schumer and all these different people. There's 12 of them now they've got saying the exact same script.

Oh, it's more than 12. Alex Jones had had a full 22 on his show, so they kept adding to it. At first it was two of them early in the morning script.

They're so dumb, but they use a.

Different tone of voice.

Well, they give their own Spin on it because they're performers.

It's wild.

I've got to have my own creative control.

Yeah, but then you get into the people that are like, the whole world's a stage. Trust the plan. Q's in control. And it's like, whoa, dude, calm down.

You'Ve gone too far. Well then when you see that document on Q, you realize what kind of people you're dealing with.

Which documentary? The ones that are really cool, like HBO thing. Yeah, but I don't like trust a documentary like that either because like HBO is like, that's the definition of mainstream media. So I try to stay somewhere in the middle of that. That is true.

But I think HBO let this guy uncover this story accurately. I think, I believe I had him in.

I'm pretty sure that I saw. I'm pretty sure that I did see the documentary.

Yeah, it's like a multi part and it shows all the people that were involved in it and it kind of highlights a guy who seems to be Q who is like kind of a Internet shit poster fucking around. And when 4chan was in its heyday, back when all that shit was going down, like it's ripe for that kind of non.

Oh yeah, perfect. Perfect fertile ground for that kind of like controlled reverse opposition, whatever bullshit psyops. And that's where for me the bottom line is, can I corroborate it with primary sources? And Q is the definition of no, of course I can. It's like, what is it? A time traveler that's coming back that's telling us how to save the world or something? Like, I don't understand, do you think.

Stuff like Pizzagate, like when they, when they had that guy come in and fire off that shot, I felt like that was a great way to put a halt to all the looking into the podestic emails. Because then all of a sudden it's a kook thing. Now it's a crazy person and a dangerous person because he's got a gun. You're causing dangerous people to take their guns.

Just like with the vaccines. It's like you're. It's a danger. They always have to make it dangerous.

Right? Yeah.

It's dangerous to say that this might have side effects. Right.

Because if you read those emails.

Exactly right.

Those emails are bananas.

They're talking, not explained.

They're talking about young kids who are going to be coming to a party to have fun. They're talking.

They'll be in the pool and they will be there for sure. $65,000 worth of hot dogs flown from Chicago for a White House party. It.

The whole thing is, like, very weird.

Did you ever see the archived Instagram post from James Oliphantis's Instagram? No, because that's a dark place. So that there's so many layers to Pizzagate that they tried to cover up intentionally for very good reason.

Well, how about the logos?

Well, the thing is, I. I avoid in the way. In way I've talked about it. I've avoided all the symbols and logos and even some of the pizza stuff. Stuff, because I think there's so much more ripe, clear evidence that is way more powerful. And James Olafont's Instagram account is a great example.

Where can you find it online?

So you cannot find it on Instagram anymore. It's only been archived onto other sites, which is kind of sketchy because it's like, how do I know you're not adding photos and stuff? So you kind of have to dig and dig and dig and cross reference over and over and over to make sure that you're getting sort of like the consensus. Because everyone watched as it happened. So people like Liz Crokin, people like Alex Jones, like, they saw these things come out and they. You can find plenty of different archives of all of James Alphonse's Instagram posts. And they're things like photos of children with their arms taped to tables. And the caption is, looks like a fun time. And then people that have always been commenting on his posts, like, the people that are interacting with his posts all the time, have even weirder Instagrams where it's like, kill room and there's a coffin that's open and things like that. There's like a photo of, like a walk in freezer, and it's like, like, man, looks like you've been having a fun weekend. Things like that that are just super dark. And a bunch of babies and a bunch of symbolism.

A bunch of children. And it's all photos on their Instagram in plain daylight. And they all got scrubbed, obviously.

Jesus Christ.

And that's not to mention Podesta's art collection and the Marina Abramovich connections. It goes on and on and on and on and on. Yeah, and we're talking about the Clintons with the Haiti scandals, with the cocaine in Arkansas. It's like, the thing is that we sound crazy. I sound crazy to someone that doesn't do their own research, because you just start. There's so many layers of, like, crazy shit that's happened with some of these people. Yeah, that if you don't know the history of a person like Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton, it's really easy to think, oh, that's just so insane that you would think that they would be involved in it. And first of all, they frame it. In the articles about Pizzagate, they say Hillary Clinton was the mastermind of a global pedophile sex trafficking ring, all headquartered in this pizza shop, which is not what anyone ever claimed.

Right. So as soon as you can discredit that, you discredit the whole thing.

Classic frame job, which Nancy Pelosi explains very well, where you make a false claim and you say, that's what they're saying, and then you discredit the false claim. But if you really learn the history of the Clinton family, just as one example, did you ever read the Strange.

Death of Vince Foster?

No, but I know a little bit about the Foster situation and a couple of those weird deaths earlier on.

I read that book. I should read that back in the dizzay. And that's what got me into wondering about the Clintons, because that guy died. They found his body where there was less blood at the scene than was missing from his body, and the gun was still in his hand.

I was actually just reading about that specific murder in Whitney Webb's books, like, two nights ago, because she goes over that too, because it's a huge question mark.

The gun was in his hand. The gun's never in your hand.

His family claimed that that wasn't the right gun. He. He was. He had a black gun. And his family's like, no, he owned a silver gun. All these weird things. They never found the bullet. Like, all sorts of things that just don't add up. And that was right after Epstein had first walked into Bill Clinton's life. That was between White House visit number one and White House visit number two, while Epstein was funding the refurbishing of the entire West Wing of the White House.

I'm glad you brought up Epstein, because there was a point that I was going to make earlier that I forgot. The Epstein situation is identical to the Manson situation.

You think so? Explain what you mean.

This is why.

I mean, I think you don't mean that literally. I think you mean that in a more.

I mean, the structure. The structure of how you would pull. Like if you were going to use an intelligence asset to do something evil, to do something where you can get dirt on people or compromise people or. Or accomplish an objective, you would get someone who's already up, oh, 100%, and then you get that up person and you help them, you know, run this cult or you them get girls, but.

You intentionally keep them separate. You're not hiring them. They don't work for you. They're a private entity. If he was layers of obfuscation, if.

He wasn't personally a pervert, it wouldn't work.

Oh, not a chance. No.

Think about the guy gets arrested for having sex with underage girls or getting them to do happy endings or wherever he did. So he gets arrested and then the real weird thing is that he just gets out and gets House arrested.

Yep.

And he gets like a little slap on the wrist and then he's back in action with all these rich people again.

Yep.

Like really rich, influential people. Like Bill Gates is hanging out with him after he's already been arrested and convicted. Like that's.

But to your point about that, he's.

Got to already be fucked up. He can't be like a straight edge regular guy with a family and children that is just evil. No, you got to have him in on the thing. So if you got a guy you know is already a freak, you know he's already a nut. He's already like doing blow and fucking hookers all the time. And maybe he's been caught with a few underage girls. You.

Well, when you study where he came from and how he got plucked from the Dalton School and then got put into Bear Stearns and they got put through Bear Stearns, then got put into money management like it was teaching.

At one point in time it was.

Teaching at the Dalton School. And then he was a banker at Bear Stearns, which he conveniently left when this big scandal broke that implicated him and the Director Goldstein, that had hired him him and had been helping him up. And then he left and kind of took the fall and took the dirt with him. And then he went into the arms running businesses, which is where he went. Met Maxwell Daddy Maxwell, not, not daughter Maxwell and Anan Khashoggi and lease and all these other arms traffickers. And that's where he got into those. So it's like you walk slowly into these worlds and as they're doing that, I'm imagining they're taking tabs on of like, what kind of guy is this? And what's he into? And he's working with arms traffickers. And some of those arms traffickers were famous for blackmail. Like Anan Khashog. He was famous for having his yacht filled up with cameras and given his arms deals everything they could ever want while he's selling weapons to Them. And he's got his whole yacht wired up with cameras. Trump later bought that yacht, which is super interesting. Do you know about that? So, Trump, check this out.

And I'm not claiming that Trump is in on everything. It's a very complex thing here. But Trump's history is pretty weird. He bought the Plaza Hotel, which is where the Blue suite parties that blackmail J. Edgar Hoover happened. Happened. You remember? Do you know about those?

No. What year was that?

Oh, dude. So J. Edgar Hoover, the founder of the FBI. This is where I thought I was starting this job to talk about GameStop and to talk about, like, the financial markets and. And then I realized how important intelligence agencies and organized crime are to how the world works. And I just got deeper and deeper and deeper and deeper into, like, I.

Don'T want to miss out on some of Epstein stuff.

Oh, yeah.

Should we come back to that?

Well, we'll get there. This is all connected. I could talk about the Epstein stuff for days and start all kinds of trouble for your podcast and.

But that trouble's supposed to be coming out publicly.

I don't think it's gonna.

Wasn't there. So the FBI and New York guy had a step down, right?

Yeah.

They were saying they're withholding files.

Yeah.

So the. Pam Bondi's office said that they just got thousands of files.

Allegedly. Yeah. We'll see what happens. We'll see what happens.

I've been saying that I'm like Charlie Brown with Lucy in the football.

Yeah.

You know when she pulls the football away every time he thinks he's gonna get to kick it and he goes falling on his ass.

Yeah. That's how it feels. Have you. You haven't read Whitney Webb's books, have you?

No.

You really should.

I watched a lot of her stuff online.

So the. The thing about her stuff online is that she comes off as way more unhinged because now she's. And she's very smart. She's very smart and she's on it, but she's now very concerned, rightly so, about the sort of technocratic nature of what might be to come. But her research on Jeffrey Epstein is looking backwards at the history of organized crime, the history of Epstein, and it paints a very. Like, we know very well who he worked for and we know who he was associated with. She has primary sources with pages of sources cited about who put him where, who he interacted with, who said what about him, who claimed what about his life. And it's like it's two full books and it's very well sourced with primary sources cited all the way throughout. And so it's like we don't actually really need the Epstein files to know what was going on. They might. They'll hopefully include a lot of new details.

But don't we need it for. For rock solid proof? Like, don't. Don't we need the.

So take. Take Leslie Wexner that we were talking about earlier. No, we already have the flight.

Do we have all of them?

Unreleased?

Really? Yeah, all of them.

Well, theoretically, the ones we know of.

And do we have flight logs with destinations?

Yeah.

So we know. So we know who went to the island?

Oh, yeah, yeah. They're all there. And you can read them online. They're on archive.org as well as other places. But Leslie Wexner is a great example here. Leslie Wexner owns Victoria's Secret and L Brands, Right. He's the bank that bankrolled Jeffrey Epstein. And I was saying earlier that he signed the power of attorney over to Jeffrey Epstein so that Jeffrey Epstein was able to. To sell his assets, manage his assets, buy on his behalf. He could sell Victoria's Secret without Leslie Wexner in the room or even his knowledge if he wanted to, because that's the level of power of attorney that he signed over to Jeffrey Epstein when he was his money manager. And the reason why you do that is so that you can claim that you don't know about his operation. He was just my money manager. I didn't know he was running this thing because I wasn't involved in any of those transactions. But what that meant is that Leslie Wexner damn well knew. There's a whole. We could go into the mega group and we could go into his connections to Charles Bronfman, all these other things.

But I was saying about the Victoria Secrets, if you're a pedophile, you want to work with kids a Nickelodeon. If you're a freak, what do you do? You get in the underground.

That's how they're recruiting, is they're recruiting from the Victoria's Secret modeling. And Jeffrey Epstein was claiming that he was a rep. But do you know about the. The CEO of Abercrombie and Fitch that went down for running a sex trafficking. Yeah, he. So he was Leslie Wexner's guy when Leslie Wexner, he bought Abercrombie and Fitch in like 1990, maybe 91, 89. And then one of the first things he did was he put that dude into position as CEO. That was Leslie Wexner's dude. And he becomes the CEO and he's gay and he likes really hot young male models. And he started running a male sex trafficking ring out of Abercrombie and Fitch. So Leslie Wexner, this dude who is a self proclaimed possessed by a demon. Yeah, yeah. Whitney has a whole chapter where she goes into this article that was done by a mainstream news source like 10 to 20 years ago, where they're interviewing Leslie Wexner and ask him about how he came to power and what's his secret. It's called his D book. D Y B U K. And you can read about this on Wikipedia as well. And he describes in his own words that he's possessed by a D book, which is like a Yiddish word for it, for an evil demon that drives him for more and more and more and more is in his own words.

Is this, is he being hyperbolic? Is he joking around like, I'm possessed by a demon that just wants more and more? I just want to be successful?

No, I mean, I, I, I mean, I wasn't in the room, but I assume based upon the wording and how it's put, I assume it's like a.

I want to read that.

It's like a billionaire. I mean, it's in the text. It's directly quoted in the text in One Nation Under Blackmail, actually, which is in that backpack.

One Nation Under Blackmail.

One Nation Under Black by Web. Highly recommend. But it's super dense. It's a hard read. It. I've read it three times now, and I still am taking notes and trying to look things up, to understand it because she's just so researched. And it's things like this where she's gone back to the original, like, article where they were interviewing him and he's just like a CEO, so they're just asking him, what's your secret to success? And he's like, I'm, I'm possessed by, I have a drive for more. And he chose the word dbook, which is a Yiddish word.

So this is from New York magazine Interview. That's exactly the source, he says. And now perhaps it's time to reintroduce Leslie Wexner's dbook, the demon that always wakes up in the morning with Wexner and tweaks and pulls at him. When he was a boy, his father called it tummel, a churning. So he feels molten and unformed, pricked by these spiritual pins and needles. He met the D, this demon again when he was 40 and already worth half a billion when he climbed the mountain in front of the house and vale and almost froze to death and decided to change his life life. This demon he calls terminal.

Which makes.

Him wander from the house, from house to house, repeating the pattern of his childhood on a luxurious scale, wanting more swallowing companies larger than his own. It is precisely the reason that Wexner has a billion and doesn't stop at, say, 5 million and a new Mercedes every other year. And what he calls normal life, Life Bridge on Wednesdays and Bar Memphis on Saturdays. And the Winding Hollow Country Club in Columbus, which is like Buckingham palace to him when he was 15.

Yeah, he said so that's just to point out that, like a. He's a fucking weird dude. He's a sketchy dude. He's running two sex trafficking rings out of his companies that he doesn't know anything about. And simultaneously he founded, I mean, the Wexner Foundations and the Leslie Wexner Heritage Foundation. Those are also very interesting and controversial. They're very tied to Israel because he is one of the foremost Israeli philanthropists, despite being an American. But he founded what was called the Mega Group, which is a. Essentially a. I mean, it was not disclosed for a long time. It was secret. And it is a group of Jewish billionaires that get together on behalf of global Judaism, which is not uncommon. And there's nothing wrong with that if they're not committing crimes, crimes, but they would get together and meet. And it's people like Leslie Wexner, Charles Bronfman. The list is. We could look it up. And that group, it is unclear if we have proof that they were conducting espionage, but there are, there are. All of them have ties to organized crime through various elements. Like the Bronfmans were liquor, were rum runners, as one example, that were then involved in the mob.

Leslie Wexner is involved in these trafficking rings, et cetera. And that group seems to have been directly associated with Jeffrey Epstein. And she's. Again, she's one that. She shows all the primary sources and like, lays it all out. This is what we know, and this is where the source came from, and this is what it said, and these are possible explanations for it. Here's one or two or three explanations for what it might be, but we don't really know because this is as far as the evidence goes. And so Leslie Wexner is just one where there's all this swirling evidence all around him that the. In order for him to not be aware of what's going on and to not have been an active part of this is damn near unbelievable. In my eyes, allegedly.

That's well covered. You did a good job of covering your bases there.

Yeah, yeah. Which, you know, I've learned to do because, I mean, I started on TikTok, where you can't even say certain words or you'll get. You'll get taken off a TikTok.

Right, right. Which is also fast.

Yeah. But like the. So the files getting released, I am not expecting them to come out in any complete form because the. The mainstream understanding is that Jeffrey Epstein was the guy. Jeffrey Epstein was just an employee of these organized crime rings that work on behalf of, like, the CIA and Israeli Mossad and British intelligence and the whole. Because organized crime is the black markets, the dark things, the sex, the drugs, the rock and roll, the child trafficking. And intelligence agencies were designed to be legitimate government's point of access to organized crime. I mean, theoretically, intelligence agencies were supposed to be. Truman wanted the intelligence agencies to be a newspaper about what's going on in the world for the President to know. Right. But Alan Dulles was not about that. Alan Dulles, founder of the CIA, was like, I want to do covert operations. And very immediately, covert operations were like overthrowing the government of Guatemala, Iran, buying the elections in Italy. They bought the elections in Italy by just passing giant bags of cash to the Mafia. So they would just go buy the election right after World War II because they needed to not let Italy fall to the communists.

It's where the Vatican is. So the CIA, though Truman okayed it, hoping that it would be a newspaper. The CIA has been covert operations from the start. And covert operations is all about public private partnership, so that you can't have it traced back to you. Right. Because if you get caught doing MK Ultra shit, the government's right.

Right.

And so what they want to do is they want to outsource MK Ultra shit, or child trafficking or drug running shit to that shell company that's hiring that guy that works at that organized crime. Right.

The same way USA does it with ngo.

Bingo. And that is all. So that's what the Deep State is. The Deep State is the conglomerate of organized crime and intelligence agencies, agencies that work in the shadows as well as the halls of power. But they're not supposed to exist and we're not supposed to know about them, but they've always existed. Because before we even founded the CIA, during World War II, there was this bombing of this ship in a port on the eastern seaboard. The USS Liberty is confusing my memory right now. It was called Operation Underworld is what there's a Wikipedia page about Operation Underworld, and there's a whole bunch more about it is this shit blows up in Harlem harbor. And they were building this big new ship. It would have been in the early 40s, I believe it was during World War II with like inside of World War II. And the ship was blown up.

Here it is.

And yeah, and what? And it's not clear if it was German U boats. There are reports that later Meyer Lansky and the mob took credit for it, like low key. But we don't really know for sure who blew it up. But when it blew up, the US government got really worried that they had no way to secure the ports along the eastern seaboard because all the ports were run by the mobile mob, because the mob ran all the unions, right? And so they, rather than trying to wrestle the ports, control the ports back from the mob, they just went to the mob and said, we'll partner with you. If you guys lock down the ports, we'll call. We'll let you kind of do your thing. And that's kind of what Operation Underworld is all about. And so what they did during World War II is they literally gave control over the entire Eastern seaboard. I mean, I'm being facetious, but they gave control over all the ports on the eastern seaboard to the goddamn drug smugglers, like, to the mob, which their favorite thing is to smuggle things. Drugs, weapons, guns, duh, kid, whatever, I don't know.

And so before the CIA was even founded, the oss, the intelligence agency during the wartime was already partnering with organized crime. And the people that founded those intelligence agencies, like Alan and Alan Dulles and John Foster Dulles, they were corporate lawyers. And that's. Can I just keep going on this? Because this is like, go. This is.

Let him cook.

This is the thing that blew my mind, right, Is I was trying to research Gamestop and shit. And then I started to realize that there's this whole monstrosity that is an official part of our government, these intelligence agencies that when you really learn their history and read about their official history, let alone their history, that sort of is still secret. It is very clear that they've been off the rails right from the start. And that's true inside of every. Like whether you're reading Legacy of Ashes and the Devil's Chessboard, very well researched official books about this show, or if you're doing Internet research. And the reason why you'd start an intelligence agency using a corporate lawyer instead of like a doctor or a military guy or something is because a Corporate lawyer is already familiar with all of the big CEOs of all the big corporations, right? Alan Dulles worked at Sullivan and Cromwell as a lawyer. And so he was very familiar with IG Farben producing Zyklon B for the Nazis. He was familiar with Standard Oil. He was familiar with shipping companies and fruit companies and all these companies all around the world.

And he's got good connections with them all. And so you suddenly, you hire one guy, Alan Dulles, and you have just hired an entire network of multinational corporations, theoretically, to work on behalf of the US but when you read the histories and you read what Alan Dulles was saying behind closed doors and everything, what he was doing is he was hiring the US Government in order to fund a corporate slush fund for corporations to utilize this power, this newly government bestowed power to essentially wage violence that is sanctioned because you see what I'm saying, Because all those corporations. The perfect example is Guatemala. United Fruit Co. Had bought up all this land in Guatemala and was growing bananas like crazy. And a lot of the land was just sitting vacant. And Jacobo Arbenz comes into power and he's like, this is bullshit. There's this American corporation that's owning all of our land, that's making all of us poor. And they're not even using a bunch of this land. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to buy back the land. He didn't take it. He bought it back from the United Fruit Company and he was going to distribute it for free to all the farmers that were destitute, which is like socialist kind of, but it's also pretty badass to use like your government money to buy all your farmers land from this multinational corporation.

But that pissed United Fruit off. And this is right as the CIA was getting founded and United Fruit was a client of Sullivan and Cromwell, and Alan Dulles was a lawyer there, right? So United Fruit goes to Alan Dulles. His brother, John Foster Dulles was the. The Secretary of State. Yeah, Secretary of State. So these two brothers that are both lawyers for Sullivan and Cromwell are the director. Well, technically, Allen Dulles was not yet the director of CIA, but he was like the founder. He just had a beef with Truman and with the first couple, couple leaderships of the President there. And so United Fruit goes to them and is like, hey, can we overthrow this piece of shit because he's fucking with our business, right? So this is like how corporations wanted this government sanctioned power and they, through those two brothers, lobbied the United States, propagandized the United States. They hired propaganda artists to propagandize them, and they painted him as a communist right at our doorstep. And then the CIA went in and through a series of kind of somewhat botched attempts called PB Success and pb, or rather Operations Operation Success and Operation PB Success, they overthrew the government of Guatemala and they ousted him.

They bombed Guatemala City and they got rid of him and they put in their own dictator that started like, you know, 30 years of absolute devastation and like military rule and just death marked like really dark shit that basically tore Guatemala apart on behalf of United Fruit. They did the same thing in Iran, like three years later with Kermit Roosevelt, where it became this thing where these multinational corporations that are affiliated with this intelligence agency, just kind of through friendships and through partnerships and through the network, they started to utilize Allen Dulles and the CIA in general on their behalf to do things for the corporate interest because they are the power players in this world. They always have been the power players in this world. And they had been itching for quite some time to get that government sanctioned ability to wage violence against, against anyone around the world. And we've been doing that ever since, using the intelligence agencies on behalf of the corporate blob, which is not always distinguishable from organized crime and just going off and whacking people and overthrowing governments and starting coups like, right to this day to like Ukraine 2014.

And they can do it without being directly connected.

So, yeah, the concept, just like the us, plausible deniability, that's the whole point, is you want to set it up in a series of shells. And the darker it is, the more you have to kind of separate it so that when Jeffrey Epstein goes down, no one knows who he worked for.

Right.

He worked for Intelligence and I was told to leave him alone.

Right.

And so you're left to speculate who he worked for. And that's why we're. We are left to rely on sources like Whitney Webb, who's done sort of the definitive dig, because they won't fucking tell us because a bunch of them are blackmailed. Whoa. Yeah. And it's all. It's like, it's not like it's literally a cabal of shadowy dudes around one table. It is just an alignment of many different interests, different families, different corporations, different bankers or organized crime groups, all sort of playing games for power. And these guys have that much power, and those guys have that much power, and interests tend to align. Like the general vibe in the corporations will probably align with the vibe of the bankers and their vibe will probably align a fair bit with some of this organized crime stuff. And we'll fund this terrorist organization, Mujahedin until it's not convenient anymore. And then we'll actually use them as a patsy to go to war because. Because there's terrorists over there. Goddammit. Right. And they've gotten quite good at kind of weaving those narratives through their operations that they've either covered up or exposed what they wanted to in various ways to kind of steer our narrative around what we know.

But when you actually read the history, it's like, holy shit. It's crazy. How much.

Did you ever read Smedley Butler's War as a rocket? Yeah, dude. So that was 33. So in 33 it was still going on like that. And he was waking up to it as he was leaving his military career. Career.

Pull that up about what they tried to do with him.

No. Oh yes, I do.

Yeah.

He wanted to take over the country.

No. He saved the country.

Right. But they. Not that he wanted. They wanted him to be a part.

There's almost a Nazi coup in the 30s where we almost got taken over by our own military and became Nazis. Because Prescott Bush and a bunch of his other buddies were on Team Nazi. And it's because they're all funding the Nazis and they wanted to. They like, they wanted us on that team.

And they tried to recruit Smedley Butler to be the lead of this.

Yep.

And take over the country.

I suspect I'm sort of form. I'm always kind of form my understanding research by research. But I suspect that it was World War I where they realized how much power like it you can have if you're funding both sides of a war.

Look at this quote. I spent 33 years in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for big business for Wall street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. Smedley Butler, 1935.

He was one of the most decorated marines. Or was he in the army of all time? General.

Unbelievable.

Yes. War is a Racket is a relatively short book that anyone can buy online and I highly recommend it to everyone that paired with.

But that's so wild that that was 33.

Oh yeah. And it's still going on to this day.

And the general public hasn't even had a whisper of this like the average normie probably four years ago, five years ago.

Yep.

Like when did this start making it into the zeitgeist obviously, in films.

I think when Elon bought Twitter. And it's still not making into the mainstream, mainstream zeitgeist. But there's. I mean, and you've played a big part in this, too. This whole decentralized media space. Space. As technology naturally walks forward. I think that we're living in this world where this. All these rich people, all these evil controlling sickos of varying degrees, they come from a world where they could control everything. They could control the newspapers, they could buy out the press, they could pay for journalists.

Yes.

And that strategy walked itself into technology. And suddenly technology is just naturally walking forwards and this just changes the game. Like, you can't. You can't use those old strategies when you have a phone and Internet and social media. And we're watching the cognitive sort of breakdown of their old ways that they don't know how to adapt. And it's just scheme after scheme after scheme is crumbling. And the secret is just free speech. That's all you need is free speech and communication on the Internet.

And Doge.

Yeah, I mean, Doge is how you actually go after it.

But you need someone who's pretty balls out.

Oh, yeah.

You need a guy like Elon that has.

I was glad that Elon said the stuff about assassination on the podcast the other day, because that needs to be said, is that they are taking great risk. Even Pam and Cash, all of them are taking great risk to do this. And it would not be the first time that someone's spouse had been whacked or someone's kids had been threatened or like they'd, you know, created a scandal. Like, do you know about the scandal of the Chappaquiddick Bridge with Chappaquic, Ted Kennedy? It was. Right.

Yeah.

That is such a great illustration of how, like, it might not even be you that they go after. It might be just. There's all sorts of ways that if you do the wrong thing, allegedly, they might come after people around you.

Yeah.

And so people like Cash and Pam and RFK are taking on a lot of risk. And that's also why I think that the, like, my following is real conspiratorial. Usually, like, I'm moderate compared to most of my people. And there's a lot of suspicion of these guys right now of, like, they must already be controlled if they can even get in there. It's like, I don't know.

I don't know about that because I used to think, well, listen, I think there's definitely some manipulation of voting. Okay, I'll Say that.

Oh, yeah, that's the Holy grail. You can't say, dude.

Yeah, I said, I say it because I think, listen at some level for sure. Now let's talk about the Hunter Biden laptop. Now, when you have 51 intelligence, former intelligence agents claiming that this is Russian disinformation, and then you have the government getting it removed, Twitter complying, you can't even post a link for the fucking New York Post, the second oldest newspaper in the country. Right.

Legitimate newspaper, when the FBI had had the laptop already.

Right. So that, in the time of an election, is election interference.

Straight up.

So that is manipulation of votes.

Yeah. Until Trump came in, that was the only election interference that I was willing to talk about. Then you know, it was very provable.

Then you have another obvious portal, which is California, and New York won't even allow you to show your ID when you vote.

Yep.

There's only one reason why you would do that. Because you want people voting that shouldn't be voting. And you want it to count because you want to win.

Yep.

Right.

And more and more, we're seeing that they are literally importing voters and paying them with government money.

Yes.

With like two huge amounts of money. When we have homeless veterans on the street, we have over 300,000 children are missing that have crossed our border that we have delivered to unknown sponsors.

Well, I think the. The Trump administration, very quickly, within the first couple weeks, found 90,000 of them. I don't know what the number is now.

I've seen that.

Yeah, there was some. See if you can find that the Trump administration accounted for. They. Well, they started looking.

Thank you.

The first, you know, the first administration is like, I don't know where it is. The Bible says the border and, well, we can't close the border. That's wrong.

Yeah. The whole thing literally locked up. The guy, you know, the guys that. That built the border wall, Steve Bannon, and he had. It was. It was Steve Bannon and Dustin Stockton and I think one or two other people. When they wouldn't build it, these guys just went out and raised millions of dollars on their own, and they literally just started building border wall. You know about that?

I had heard.

I didn't know about that either. And then I now do a podcast a couple. Every couple weeks with Dustin Stockton, who. Who's a whole trip of a guy, and he started telling me the story of like, what are you saying? I had no idea that they had literally just started building it from a private citizen standpoint until they arrested them.

Did you Know that also before the election, all the border materials were for sale.

Yep.

They sold the border materials.

Yep. I mean, they were just trying to get everything out as fast as they could. They were deleting files and just giving out aid money and announcing more and more foreign war aid to Ukraine and Israel and everything.

Like throwing gold off the Titanic.

Crazy dude. Yeah. Yeah. And I, I am really excited for everything that's going to come out, but I'm also, like, before we go any.

Further, I'm reading into the kids. It's a. It's definitely a political thing.

Oh, the children are actually missing BBC. Go yourself. Well, this is. Says that they.

They had them, I guess, in records, and then when they sent court notices out, they just don't come to their court date. So they consider them as. Okay, that can make sense. But I think the. The Trump administration accounted for quite a few. Well, that part. I don't know. That's what they say. You're not going to find them on BBC. Well, I'm just.

Yeah, all right. That's. Yeah, the. So I work.

No, don't. No, don't put that. Trump administration finds missing kids. Try that.

Yeah, because I work with this guy named Ryan Mata, who spent three years of his life going to the border with his own dollars and filming documentaries about this and interviewing the people that, like, rescue trafficked children. Children and actually interviewing whistleblowers from within the Biden regime's trafficking scheme. Like the people that were dropping kids off with sponsors.

Sean, listen to what. What. What it says there. A Trump administration is allegedly located between 75,000, 80,000 of the 300,000 missing migrant children, according to Harris Faulkner of Fox News. This is without source. Okay.

Trust me, bro, Just Google Harris.

Right, I understand, but Google Harris Faulkner.

I would love for that to happen.

Harris Faulkner.

I mean, I suspect that every news, every single, like, there's every incentive for Trump to find them and to do something about it, but I think the vast majority of them are dead, unfortunately.

So that's a Facebook link. I mean, and this is the thing.

Is that there are certain topics that are so disinformationalized and so sensationalized that when you start to research into them, you realize you're inside of this media madness, that it's so hard to find the truth. And Covid was one of those. And J6 was one of those. The elections was one of those.

Yeah.

And when you find that, it becomes it for me, it sets a bell off. Is a. I'm in something I should learn About. But B, I have to be very careful and I don't know. And you never know what you can trust in those spaces. And so that's where I change my. My switches for what to believe. And I kind of open up the bandwidth in terms of take out, take it all in in. But be very skeptical because that's where you get wild conspiracy theories that are unproven and trust me. And then you also get all kinds of propaganda trying to obfuscate the narrative.

Yeah, that's a big factor that people need to be aware of is purposeful misinformation that gets inserted into a narrative to make that narrative ridiculous.

Yep. They've done whole conspiracy theories that I think are like that, and Q might be one of them. I don't know. I think flat earth is one of them.

Oh, yeah?

Yeah.

Well, I think flat Earth was. Someone did that as a goof and then they couldn't believe how much it took.

Yeah, right.

But if you can speak well and you're articulate and you have compelling things that you're saying and there's no counter, there's no scientist going, stop, stop, stop. Yeah, we can show you in fucking ten minutes that the earth is round. Everything in the sky is round. The earth is the only thing that's not round. You know, the. The weirdness of it is how much people want to believe that everything's bullshit. And so you could trick a certain number of.

Why, like, think about how, like, right, so 10 years ago, Alex Jones was saying that the whole government's controlled by pedophiles and he was a psychopath or I guess more than 10 years ago now. And then Jeffrey Epstein got caught.

Dude, I talked to people about it back then, right. And they thought it was the funniest thing ever because Alex. Yeah, I'm telling you, there's a fucking island. They take him to an island, they get them up.

There's more than one island. There's been a few islands, yeah.

You think that's the only place they know that there's probably some super secret place in China that they all go to or.

Yeah, I mean, they're all over Mexico. They're all over, like. Yeah. Imagine what is in Mexico. The government of Mexico has been partnered with the cartels for at least two administrations is what it looks like. And the cartels are just like running that whole game, that whole sort of north Western, like, quarter of Mexico. I can only imagine what we'll find down there.

Really hilarious is the blue. And on Twitter, people, the kooky ones who are like, yeah, you're going to go after the cartel. Good luck. Yeah, yeah, good luck. The greatest military force the world has ever known versus drug runners.

Are you out of your Cartels are highly militarized. They're extremely advanced. But they're not going to compete with us. No, no, no.

I had my friend Evan Haer on here from Black Rifle Coffee, and he was talking about, like, do you understand the kind of. Like, these are very capable people, no doubt. Do you understand the kind of ultra violence that they will experience if they let these, you know, Seal team guys go after the cartel people?

Because those are proud Americans that have been itching to defend our nation. Like, they have been itching for the ability to actually do something meaningful.

And that's also the place where. Look, Afghanistan. Doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense.

Oh, it was an opium operation.

Right, Right. Oh, yeah, that too. We can get to that.

Oh, yeah.

But it doesn't make sense that we would send troops over there. It makes sense that we would send troops after the cartels. If you think about the amount of death that occurs in the United States because fentanyl overdoses, where you have tainted drugs that are coming in across the border and killing people left.

And unprecedented children, like, taking kids from families, my whole generation was devastated by it. My whole generation.

Everyone today knows someone who died of an overdose. Everyone does. That was very uncommon when I was in high school.

And the problem is that it was not just illegal fentanyl and illegal heroin. The problem is that the Sackler family and the pharmaceutical industry was in on it. And so doctors were prescribing it to normal people, and it was just devastating our whole population all at once. Once is so tragic.

That painkiller documentary on Netflix.

Yeah.

Or the docu drama series.

Yeah. And so the. The administration now in Mexico, she, Claudia Sheinbaum, she is like, the protege of Amlo, who was the leader of that same party from before, and I think he served two terms. It's like, so it's been something like the last six to eight years or something. Their official cartel policy is hugs not bullets. And what they basically describe is, is we. We're causing more death by going after the cartel, and we'll just agree to not touch them. We'll just agree to leave them alone. And I'm kind of exaggerating again, but like, that hugs not bulls is their official slogan for their policy about the cartels. So it makes sense for us to fucking do something. It's like we'll do the bullets. You can keep your hugs. Thank you very much. Right.

I wonder what's going to happen with that. Because they did declare them a terrorist organization. Yeah.

I mean I was worried I kind of came out a little hot. And I post something on Twitter that was like, no fucking drone strikes inside the U.S. no sir. No, you're not. Because the way that the sort of announcement was worded of like we're declaring cartel members terrorist organizations and we will be and drone strikes are like totally a okay on that is what someone was saying about it. And I was like. And I was like, where's the line on allowing the targeting of cartel. Because once you start targeting terrorists, that's why 911 was so subversive is it turned everyone into a possible enemy of the state that can be shipped off to Guantanamo. Because terrorism is just this elusive concepts.

Right.

And you can and anyone can just become a terrorist if we just call them a terrorist propaganda.

There was people shipped off to Guantanamo who were definitely 100% and did time and got released. Oh yeah, you want to radicalize someone, send them to Guantanamo Bay for a decade for something they didn't do.

Right. And the you brought up the Hunter Biden laptop and those 51 intelligence agents. I wanted to look into it. So I looked at the letter itself and I actually read the letter letter. And on the letter at the bottom they all signed it. And if you just start googling the people that signed it, the very first two names were ex directors of the CIA that lied to us about Guantanamo Bay and lied to us about surveilling American citizens and lied, like lied on the stand. And so they are professional liars that are from the intel agencies that are saying, oh no, no, no, like Hunter Biden's all good above board. It's like, why would we ever trust that? But that's how powerful spin is. When every media article perishes that no, it wasn't made in a lab. There's no evidence it was made in a lab. That couldn't be true. Yeah, everyone just believes it because we want to believe that that's how the world is.

We used to. Don't you think that over the last four years Covid was probably the biggest wake up call ever for people?

Yeah, I mean it was my wake up call. I was a leftist that didn't think about shit before COVID 2. No, you thought about shit, you just.

Didn'T think about it. No, I thought about shit, but I was pretty much a leftist totally. And then I was like, oh, this is fake.

Yep. And to be fair, I think we're kind of both still sort of leftist. What left should be socially progressive? Yeah, we need. Because politics is supposed to be a balance. We need regulation of corporations. That's a leftist ideology. But we need individual liberty, and we're supposed to have a balance of the two.

Yes.

And when you. And I think. My theory is that it used to be easier to control the right because it was a big money party and you could go to war with them and you could lead us around by the right. But as technology came in, they realized it was way easier to spin narratives to the collectivists. And if you can get all the collectivists, the leftists, to go along with the narrative, that's way more effective than these individual liberty people with the guns.

Well, also, you're controlling all the universities. If you have.

Bingo.

You have the narrative that you essentially program the culture as it then leaves the universities and enters into the workforce.

The most ignorant people ready to be programmed coming in. I mean, that's always how communist revolutions have been. Programmed, programmed.

Well, we were talking about this with Jordan Peterson where people were saying, what is the big deal? This is like 2015, 2016, when Jordan Peterson first and when Brett Weinstein first started emerging. And before that, I was talking about these crazy things that were going on in universities and people like, why are you paying attention? These fringe things that kids are doing. I'm like, they're gonna graduate. These are the people. These aren't the people who 30 years ago were studying in school, trying to figure out what career to get into. And no, they want to change the world with activism. Now. Everyone wants to be an activist in every job you take. Everything you take is supposed to enact social justice. That is supposed to be your. And then you're given this as, like, your social credit system when you're in the universities. And then you leave like, I still want to be the good person. I still want to be the person that everybody applauds. I will do the right thing. I will say the right things. And then you get DEI in the workforce, like, oh, great, it's all here now. We're all together.

And in a world with no meaning, where, like, life is meaningless for 99% of the population, you give the meaning and they will cling to that.

You're on the good team now. You're on a team. Yeah, you're on a team.

And I understand it because I come from that. I come from one of the most liberal cities in this fucking country.

Yeah.

And. But then I'm like, Covid's happening. And I was taking it really seriously. Like, my last Facebook post was like, all young people, we should lock down and take this really fucking seriously. And then my. All my roommates were like, hey, let's go down to Seattle and do the BLM protest. I'm like, whoa, like, you're a mask Nazi. You're, like, on me about my masking, and you're trying to go burn down Seattle in a group of, like, a hundred thousand people. What? And so they all went down to Seattle, and I'm back at home. And, I mean, I still love them to death. Like, if they watch this, like, no shade to them. Like, but I'm at home watching the live streams of the BLM protest, and I'm like, where'd that pallet of bricks come from?

Right?

And that got me thinking, where'd that.

Pallet of bricks come from? Over and over and over again. And there's all these explanations. Well, there's a construction site. Let me tell you something about construction sites. Bricks are expensive. They don't leave bricks laying around like that because people would steal them and take them to their construction sites. That happens all the time. If you leave copper piping on a construction site overnight, people just.

Especially downtown, where there's meth heads everywhere.

Yes.

Why?

You got a basket of bricks?

No. And so then the thing is, I start asking a question. I ask one question in that leftist environment, and it's just like, don't ask question, and it's like, I'm out of here.

Well, Chase Hughes was talking about that when he's talking about COVID Like, what are the ways you can clearly see that something is psyop? First, you're not allowed to question anything.

Yep. 100%. And questions are met with, like, obey the herd. Like, you're. And they demonize you. And they don't ever attack the argument. They don't ever engage with the arguments.

No.

And that's what I love about the job that I've fallen into as a sort of, like, researcher is that I have no problem with being wrong. My favorite moments in my career so far have been when someone's proved me wrong. Wrong. And I've been like, oh, thanks, bro. I didn't know that. I'm gonna research that and look it up, because there. I mean, some people can get trapped in their ego and need to stay on some hill and die there.

Right?

But, like, that's. You don't need to do that it's a progress for intelligence, for, like, learning. That's what the academy of ideas was built on. Right, right. And so having this culture of censorship and of herd mentality, especially in the universities, is the most toxic thing to our national future you could ever incorporate.

Yeah. It's a perfect thing that a foreign company or a foreign government would do to the United States in order to ruin us. And this is what Yuri Besmanov talked about in the 1980s.

Bingo. That's such a formative speech to watch that speech. Everyone should watch that speech.

And it's ironically in 1984.

Yeah.

That he's saying this.

Well, I mean, these tactics are old. Like, I mean, they go. And I'm. I more and more started to look at, like, we. We change from kinetic warfare at the atom bomb to, like, psyop and subversive and information warfare. And we were still doing kinetic warfare, but it was all these little proxy wars that were based on propaganda and, like, in order to spin narratives, in order to get support and more and more as technology has evolved. One of my kind of sticks is that this. The warfare is information warfare now. Because what they need to do is they need to convince everyone that Covid is real and that you need to lock down and you need to wear your mask and you take the vaccine so we can profit. And all of that is information.

Yeah.

And that changes it from soldiers fighting soldiers to government agencies, or rather NGOs, and all these conglomerates of like. Of money, like groups essentially targeting all of us. And we become the targets of that warfare. And so it's on us to get educated.

What's fun, though, is when they try to spin a narrative to try to cover up their tracks, and it just winds up exposing more people to what's actually going on. One of my favorite ones was when Geraldo Rivera was in Afghanistan going through the poppy fields with the United States military Guardian.

I don't think I've seen this.

You never seen this?

I know of, like, I know what you're talking about, but I don't think I've seen it.

Amazing. It's amazing because he's in full propaganda gaslight mode, and he's explaining why it's important to protect these poppy fields because these farmers livelihood, we're protecting them from the Taliban, poor farmers, to help these.

Because the Taliban shut down the opium production. The Taliban outlawed opium production and burned all the fields and got rid of it all.

So he's literally talking to this officer in front of the poppy fields. You see These guys.

That's crazy. Guarding the military.

Yes. Why? Play this.

Oh, my God. Play this.

We're going to head to Afghanistan.

Let's go.

This morning, the Taliban is using it.

To intimidate the population.

Province is Geraldo Rivera.

Good morning to you, Geraldo. Tell us what you've seen during your days there in Afghanistan. Hi, Allison, Dave and Clayton. Yes, in some ways, the Marines brilliantly.

Executed invasion of Marja. This town in the middle of Helmand.

Province was the easy part.

The hard court now is governing this province, a province, as you suggest, that has become addicted to opium.

In many, many ways, that is the.

Principal crop that is being grown here. The Taliban lend the farmers the money. They are indebted to the Taliban.

They have to grow the opium.

Now. The Marines, in their success, are, in.

A sense, a victim of their success.

Because now the population is, you know, they have these opium fields, and we are tolerating it. We are tolerating the cultivation of the opium because we know that if we were to destroy it now, the population would turn against the Marines and it would be a real security risk. Let me introduce Lieutenant Colonel Brian Christmas. He's the commanding officer.

I really can't make this up.

It gets better. Really a wonderful group of Marines here. I know that you care deeply about this contradiction. The fact that here you have one of the best fighters fighting forces in the world ever mounted. And in a sense, you're watching as this opium is being grown. I know it grinds at your gut.

How do you deal with it?

What are you doing about it?

Well, frankly, this is part of their culture. So while it might grind in my gut, it's what they do. We provide them security. We're providing them. He was given very strict orders that morning. Different crops to grow. They're getting the seed and the fertilizer.

They're getting. Give different crops. Grow tomatoes, guys.

Yeah, right.

Hey, you can grow apples.

My favorite statistic about that era is that. That. That I will. I'm going to get the number wrong. But it. So the opium is only grown in so many places, Right. And it used to be in the Vietnam region in Southeast Asia, the Golden Triangle. Then it changed the Golden Crescent, which is Afghanistan. And when that era happened, it was something like 70%, 80% of the world's opium supply was coming from Afghanistan. And if you just do a little math, math and think it through, you realize that we have this gigantic opioid market of legal opioids of the Sackler family and all these pharma companies and you realize that it's physically impossible for them not to be in on this scheme because where's. Where are they growing their opium? They're not growing it here. They're not growing it in like Africa. So it like by definition, when you just think through what's going on here, you realize that some of those opium fields are illegal heroes. Heroin. And some of those opium fields are big pharma.

It coincides with the opioid crisis.

Direct one to one dude.

The pharmaceutical grade prescribed opioid crisis in America as it goes up. And then you see at one point in time, Afghanistan was responsible for 94% of the world's opium.

Bingo. There's the stat.

While we are occupying now it's Myanmar, which also just went through a military couple.

Yep. I mean, they've always got to control. So opium has been one of the most important crops to control ever since the British Empire and like the days of tall ships. You know about the opium wars with China.

Yes.

That was a funny history to learn about.

Yeah. Crazy.

Yeah. Because that's the thing is that I've been basically learning everything from scratch as I've gone because I didn't know shit. I was just.

How many years ago?

Two. Less than two.

That's so great.

I mean like I was learning done soil.

You must be a plant.

I know, right?

Some sort of an operative.

I'm a massage agent.

You just good at at it. Just, you know, if you're good at it, if you're Whitney Webb or if you're you or anything.

It's just a scientific process of having the right degree of like, understanding of just like the right amount of like, need to see primary sources and real evidence and the ability to look and test a hypothesis and see what comes out. And not being attached to one conclusion beyond what the evidence actually suggests.

Also not being afraid to seem foolish to the uninformed.

Absolutely.

Because so many people will dismiss most of what we've talked about today. Today.

Yeah.

Offhand.

Yeah.

Without any. Especially people that only consume the Wall Street Journal and mainstream media.

But I had the benefit of being a normie when I started. And so I walked my way in piece by piece.

So you know how they.

Like I started with all the BlackRock conspiracy theories. I started with who owns the media, who owns the tampon aisle, who owns all these things? And I would go into the grocery stores and do the videos in the grocery stores where I would like go to the cereal aisle and be like, who owns all these cereals? And it turns out the entire cereal aisle is three companies. And I mean, the tampon aisle is even better because they're all getting sued for having reprotoxic chemicals in the tampons.

Right.

Meaning they'll kill your reproductive system.

And not only that, toxic shock syndrome.

Exactly. Right.

Yeah.

And so that sort of. I like, walked myself slowly into learning and I walked my audience along with me. And I also developed this understanding of. I mean, I used to be a teacher, and so I have this under a certain understanding of, like. Like, how do you communicate in a way that acts. That's speaking from their perspective instead of from my perspective, which right now I'm just talking to you instead of talking to them because it's more fun. But. But when I actually make my videos, I do my best to try to put myself in, like, in the shoes of who I'm trying to access and what do they know and what do I need to communicate and show evidence of for them to understand that. That, like, you can look into this and check my sources.

Yeah.

And you can think about this. You're. You have permission to think about this.

You do a very good job of citing your sources and telling people where to look if they want to find out more information about it too, because of it is a real big deep dive.

And it's the most important part by far.

It's like unless you're you. Unless you're a person who does it for a living, like the amount of time that it takes to find out about this stuff, and then even you, who's been in for two years doing this, like, there's. There's decades of layers you need to uncover and it'll take forever. Like Whitney Webb's been doing it for how long?

Oh, I don't even know.

Alex Jones has been in the game for 30 plus years.

Exactly. And there's still always more to learn and always more to connect. And we get new information that puts new light on old situations. It just re. It's this constant rearranging game of understanding. And I just love that. I mean, yeah, most people don't have time for all of it, but as we're sort of stratifying into this ecosystem of content of like, creators and journalists and thinkers, that we're all kind of collectively doing the work together. And some of us are more integral than others. Some of us are just clickbaiters and some of us are like, I'm somewhere in the middle. And then you get some people that are really professional about it, like problematically professional about it, like, they can only get so much done.

Have you ever looked into Oklahoma City bombing?

No, not much actually, not hardly at all. But I know it's one that's like. That's one of those seminal moments.

Good one. First of all, the amount of damage to the building is not something that you would get from a fertilizer bomb. And the way a fertilizer bomb would work in front of the building. That building's blown out.

Exactly.

And the FBI was retrieving unblown bombs from the building.

Interesting.

Not only that Timothy, like The whole Timothy McVeigh thing is fucking wild. When you go down the rabbit hole and start looking into to seems like a false flag, it seems, or it seems like someone else planted bombs inside that building and they blamed it on this fertilizer bomb.

What would that false flag have taken us to? Like what did they change?

They passed different gun laws and different. Different laws afterwards.

Yeah, I mean 911 is the perfect example of that kind of false flag of this thing that's crazy. That has all these questions that get covered up and then we just go to war in the Middle east with a country.

Then we have the Patriot act and the Patriot Act 2. Now there's. Yeah.

Cover up all the missing money, all these things.

Incredible amounts of control and surveillance now gets used on the population.

Who do you think did 911 or like what conglomerate of groups were. Do you think were involved?

What for sure the Saudis were involved. Right.

I mean a lot of the people were Saudi.

A lot of the people were Saudi.

I don't know if that necessarily means that the Saudi government had anything to do with it.

It could mean it was just people that were recruited by another organization that were with the Saudis. What do you think happened at Tower 7?

I think that's a good question. That's a weird, I think information in it about both. I think it probably had information in it about the planning of the attack and or what was going on with the attack. But I also think it had information about other things that needed to go away. Maybe it's old CIA operations. Maybe it's banking information.

Maybe it's information about the trillions of dollars that was missing that Donald Rumsfeld talked about the day before 9 11.

Yep.

So he gives a press conference in front of the Pentagon. Was the Pentagon? Is that where it was?

I don't know where the press conference was. I mean I think it was in a room, but I'm not sure.

So he gives this press conference, this press conference. He says there's trillions of dollars they can't account for. And everybody's like, what the fuck? The very next day 911 happens and in one of the buildings where they store data, that building mysteriously implodes. Like a controlled demolition that like no building has ever collapsed. Collapsed ever. Just because of fire, I mean and structural damage for sure, but it's the way it collapses.

Even from planes hitting buildings. No building has ever collapsed like that. Other planes have hit buildings, bombs have gone off in buildings, all sorts of stuff has happened to buildings and they don't fall down like the main towers did, let alone Building seven.

Right. It's, it's all real weird. At the very least if, if that was my building, I'd be like, I'm suing. You guys made a building.

Yeah, except that he took out special insurance against plane crashes and against terrorism right before it.

But you would take out insurance against terrorism because that place had already been the victim of bombing.

It happened.

I mean that was in the Biggie song Blow up like the World Trade.

Yup, Classic move. Talking about Biggie Diddy is on the menu. But it's important to mention as we're getting into all these like government conspiracy theories and like CIA did it, Israel did it, Saudi did it. No one's saying ever, unless you're dumb that the whole government of any of these countries did it. Like when you say like people, it's like in the anti Israel crowd, people get smeared a lot for like as though you're claiming that all of Israel did 911 or all of Israel did this thing. Or when you're talking about the CIA, it's more obvious when you're talking about the CIA. We're not saying that the whole CIA did something, right? We're saying that these, these groups, these covert intelligence agencies, they are fertile ground for walled off areas of need to know information behind levels of security clearances where plots can be hatched and they always have been. That's the whole fucking point of an intelligence agency is to hatch plots, right? It's unreal that they would hatch such an evil and fucked up plot, right? But it happened and you only need to do it. I mean 911 happened when I was in like grade school and I remember like where I was and all that shit.

And that was the seed that, that just sort of set under the ground until you know, BLM that eventually sprouted for me of like I always knew there was something weird. And I saw Zeitgeist when I was way younger. Younger and I so I knew that like there's weird in this world. But I was a leftist that just wanted to go snowboarding and stuff. So I didn't really think about it until it walked into my city and told me to stay inside and get a jab and all sorts of. So yeah, they really up with that one.

They really up with that one. Well, I think they thought they had us because I think they were.

They did.

All the people that are in power operating on a paradigm that existed before the Internet. Exactly.

Yep. Do you know Mickey Willis at all?

No.

Do you know the Plandemic films at all? At all?

No.

Oh, dude, you should really check them out. Yeah, he. He's around this area and I had not seen them before. Plandemic one was this doctor named Judy Mikovitz that blew the whistle really early on. And, and that is one of the things that got all this. Like the fact that you haven't heard of it and seen it.

No, I've heard of it.

Exactly.

I've heard of it.

They just haven't locked it down.

But I was so balls deep in the COVID thing that I didn't want to see anything more because it was me. I. I was a part.

You were a part of that censorship.

Yeah.

She got that same kind of treatment of like smear campaigns left and right.

And just the smear campaign against me though was so eye opening when, when you know that something's not true that's being said on CNN over and over.

And over about yourself.

About yourself. And then they take your face and they make you green.

It's taking horse pairs.

It was so crazy to watch and to be a part of that. It was like, wow, I'll never trust again because now I know you guys are full of.

And that was a big thing that red pilled a lot of regular people, people like, like myself included. And, and a good example of like my take on that is I didn't know about Ivermectin beforehand. So I didn't even just like be like, oh, Joe Rogan said. I was like, fuck it, I'll look it up. They said that it was an award winning medication. I'll find the goddamn award that they got for it. So I looked it up and you found. And I found it. It's like, okay, cool.

Well, not, not only that. I said a bunch of stuff I took. They only, they only locked on to this horse pace thing.

Well, because Ivermectin is the. A great threat to their profit. They can't make money off of it. And it works very, very well if you get it early enough. Enough.

But imagine they ignored all the other stuff I took. I said I took IV vitamins, I took prednisone, I took Z pack, I took monoclonal antibodies.

I have a theory about that. And it's that they can't get an emergency use authorization if there is a drug that is. That can be considered a cure. Like a preventative treatment. A treatment. Right.

Just a treatment.

And so they. Right. And so they. And I mean you've said this many times, right? Is they needed to act all treatments because the one that they went with was administered IV post like in the hospital and it was very, very expensive. Remdesivir is a whole super dark rabbit hole kidney failure. Oh yeah. And they knew that full well. They had already tested it out in Africa. And RFK's book, the Real Anthony Fauci opened my eyes in a big way.

In mine as well. Yeah, yeah.

Still has not been sued.

No. I was very skeptical about him before I read that book because they had done a great job of connecting him to fringe conspiracies and making him look like a kook. He's the one Kennedy that's out of his mind.

And it's been long enough since he was not a kook because he started doing the vaccine stuff for these moms that were coming to him with vaccine injured kids. And he was not trying to do vaccine stuff, but he saw these kids and was like, I need to fight for these people.

And he had been spending time talking about mercury poisoning because he was an environmental attorney and he had successfully, successfully sued all these corporations that were dumping into rivers. He cleaned up the East River. I mean he did so much great work as an environmental attorney that people forget about because they did such a good job. And again, this is before social media and the Internet. Like you could do a great job of smearing someone and making them look nuts. Remember Jenny McCarthy? They smeared the shit out of Jenny McCarthy because she was suggesting that her child changed after her child was vaccinated. Her child got autism. And this is when they were doing the multi vaccines in one day and dosing kids up and. And they made her look like a fucking idiot and they removed her from Hollywood. She. She essentially got blacklisted.

That's the story right? Is you.

Yeah.

There are certain narratives that are golden cows that you cannot touch. And the vaccine industry has always been one of them.

The thing about that one is we all would agree. I would have agreed. I. If you got ahold of me six years ago and asked me about vaccines. Like, they're one of the most important inventions in your. And then you read. Have you ever read Dissolving Illusions?

No.

Read that book. All of those diseases had dropped off because of sanitation and nutrition.

Yeah, I've seen the graphs.

Yeah, they all had dropped off. And then the vaccine comes included.

Speaking of the current thing, which is.

Controversy, which is an infection that everyone got when I was a kid, and what happened was you'd get sick for a few days and then you'd be immune for life. Life.

Yep.

Yeah. And they're making it look like everyone's dying from measles. Like, no, if you're dying from measles, you're sick, you're already compromised. Which is exactly what happened with COVID where 90 plus percent of the people who died at 4 plus comorbidities.

Yep.

Jesus Christ.

Which is why I. It was such a red pill for me because I was like, literally an ultra marathon runner that was going to the gym like three, like three hours a day. Like, I don't. I need natural immunity. I already have natural immunity. Go fuck yourselves. Like, what are you doing? And the reason why I was talking about Mickey Willison planemic is because the second plan, Demic, is called indoctrination. And it's basically a magnum opus about how the vaccine industry, this golden cow, is not just like, it's not just one thing or this thing or one thing. It's a organized, like, group of profit takers that has been growing for decades. And Bill Gates, and he like, lays out how Bill Gates got into it and is on camera saying how many profits he's made off of vaccines and how great of a business model vaccines are. And. And vaccines as a concept, great concept, but it is so lucrative if. If manipulated and corrupted that really evil people started to do really evil things with it.

Also, you have complete immunity to liability.

Yeah, well, they got that orchestrated partway through that. That sequence because they were starting to get sued like fucking crazy.

Right.

Because there was all kinds of injuries. And so that's how Reagan administration. Exactly, yeah, yeah, Reagan passed that act.

They got to stop that. You can't just give people immunity because then they lie. They lie so they can sell more stuff, and then they get caught like they did with Vioxx, and they only pay a percentage of the profits.

Yeah, yeah. And it's not just. It's not just that you can't give them immunity. It's that you cannot just punish with fines. You have to punish with Prison time. Because if you don't punish with prison time, it will never change. That's true of the drug industry. That's true of our corrupt government officials that are like for example, the person that was withholding these Epstein documents, documents from Pam Bondi and she fired him. No. Put him on a stand and at least give him a trial to make sure he didn't commit treason or something else. Right. And maybe he's fine and you let him go and he's just fired. But like if you aren't, if you're not going to send the Epstein clients to prison, if you're just going to like find a couple people, like 2008 banking collapse. We'll find one. Like we'll find all the bankers a little bit and we'll just put one little pawn of a banker in jail. That's why we have this crazy. Like 2008 was horrible, but it was by no means the last market crash that we're having. Like because no one ever went to jail. They just switched their tactics around and get ready for the next profit taking event.

Yeah. And they've already paid everybody off so that they get preferable treatment. And this is exactly what happens to the pharmaceutical drug companies when they get caught. They just pay fines. They don't go to jail. They killed 50, 60,000 people with Vioxx.

The thing about white collar crime is it's real profitable and there's no consequences.

And they have the media because they sponsor. Yep.

Usually they're in bed with these intelligence agencies and organized crime aspects in some small ways or sometimes really big ways. Like in the case of the opium fields where they're clearly getting their opium from these poppy fields and clearly they are interfacing with the drug, the illegal drug trades, at least on some level.

Yeah.

Not necessarily saying they're collaborating, but they're certainly like getting it from the same supplier. It's just, it's really the idea that.

They'Re not as crazy.

Yeah.

The idea that you're going to have 94% of the world's opium and you're just going to ignore it while you're occupying the country with a military force and guarding the fields. Shut the fuck.

Especially considering. So that was George W. Bush.

Right.

But George H.W. bush. This is one that's not totally declassified yet, but I've been digging deep into it. I got a whole bunch of documents on it and it's kind of declassified. Is that during Vietnam era we were managing all the opium production and the heroin production. In Laos House and in the surrounding area. And it was being sold to American service members to make money for the CIA for black operations. And that was George H.W. bush. That was his time. That's why his nickname is Poppy. It's not because he's like the dad. It's because he was brought into that organization with Richard Helms.

That's the reason why his name.

Oh, that's why his nickname is Poppy. That is still not mainstream CIA like Disclosure News. There's a whole fucking rabbit hole about it. Like, it is kind of disclosed that we were involved in that drug trade somewhat, but it's not disclosed that. That. That's why all the Vietnam veterans came home addicted to heroin, because the CIA was selling heroin to them and to a lot of other parts of the world in order to raise funds for their black budget operations. Because the CIA has always had trouble funding all their operations, ever since what.

They did with crack cocaine in Los Angeles.

Bingo.

Freeway, Ricky Ross.

It's all tied. Tied in. So the guy. So Bill Casey, who. Bill Colby, rather, who put that all together. He was. He was in the heroin operations in Vietnam, and he was like, a little lower down and. And not running it. And then as he grew up and came to power in the CIA and those other guys that were more competent, Richard Helms being the primary one. Richard Helms and H.W. bush, they were not involved when he went off on his own and tried to set up the cocaine smuggling. And that's why he bungled it so fucking bad, because he was a psycho. Psychopath that didn't have the skill sets required in order to run something that complex. And it eventually, when Barry Seal got popped, he was the guy that was flying the. Like it used to be, I'll drive a truck with a brick of cocaine across the border. And then Barry Seal was this military CIA pilot that said, like, I'll just fill my whole plane with cocaine and get like a thousand runs in one. And he was just flying whole planes over to Mena, Arkansas, where Bill Clinton was the guy.

Governor.

Yeah.

As well as a few other places.

That Tom Cruise movie where they get a call from the governor, they have to let Barry Seals out. Which did happen.

Oh, yeah. And when Barry Seal finally got popped, everyone started. All the rats started to run and try to look out for their own. And eventually that led to Oliver north taking the stand and totally bungling his job on the stand. He was supposed to be like, bro, you're supposed to be the fall guy. And now we just have this Huge problem.

Yeah, it's wild, dude. And this. These are just one of thousands of stories like this.

Yup.

Thousands and thousands.

Very well documented that originally, originally, you're a fringe reporter, Gary Webb. You're making it all up. You're disgraced. And they. Gary Webb's writing Dark Alliance. You can look up his Wikipedia page. And Gary Webb exposed how Freeway Ricky Ross was the outlet for all this cocaine. And when you and. Holy shit. Freeway Ricky Ross is a crazy story.

But then when three times. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Interesting guy, right?

He's selling weed in LA now, legally.

What a full circle. He goes from wanting to be a tennis pro to being the number one kingpin of cocaine.

Well, not only.

This mastermind doesn't know how to read. Yeah. Illiterate the whole time.

Yeah. Learned how to read in jail, became a lawyer in jail and then realized that the three strikes law had been inaccurately applied to him.

Whoa. I did not know that.

Yeah.

That's crazy.

They applied it to one specific event. It's supposed to be. You get arrested three different times for three felonies.

No, I think that they needed to cover it all was starting to come out well because Gary Webb was starting to fucking. I mean, maybe Gary Webb was after that. But then Gary Webb committed suicide by shooting himself in the head two times.

Yeah.

It's like, okay, guys.

Yeah.

Crazy. Crazy movie about that too.

Yeah. Crazy, crazy, crazy. There's so many of these things. It's like the idea of a conspiracy theory being a ridiculous fringe thing doesn't hold water anymore.

It's like the Jimmy Dorset. It's like reading. You mean reading. You should try it.

Jimmy's the best.

I love Jimmy. He was just here.

Just film. Special mothership. Yeah. Jimmy's the best. I love him to death. I've known him from comedy, just from comedy, from back in the day. And then when he was at Young Turks, when he was a leftist.

Yeah.

And then. Which he really still holds all those same values.

No, he holds it down.

Yeah.

You and him are the two guys I point to when I and him. A little more than you know of. When I'm like, where's the sane left still at?

Right.

It's kind of like you guys and like the white. Like Eric Weinstein is a good example. Eric and Brett Weinstein?

Yeah.

There's a couple, but a lot of them have just gone insane.

Taibbi's another one.

Taibbi's great.

I love Taibi. There's people who didn't cave and. But they. Boy, did they get attacked. Boy, they have a lot of pressure.

Yeah.

It's like, it's so hard to know what's real in the world. And unless you have Shellenberger, unless you have Glenn Greenwald, if you. Unless you have those people out there that are risking their neck, they're sticking their neck out there that tell you exactly what's going on. This is what funded it. This is how it started. Don't let them say any differently. We made an agreement with Russia. We did this. NATO did that. This is what's going on.

Can't be bought.

And there's. There's. It's so important. And they rise now. There's so many of them now. And they're coming. It's becoming much more mainstream. And if you look at some of their videos, it's millions of views. And then you find that, you know, MSNBC is getting a fraction of that and they're, you know, corporate funded, enormous, huge organizations with staff and. And now they're hemorrhaging people.

It's wild to watch the mainstream journalists, like the MSNBC folk.

Yeah.

Have to leave. Like, Joy Reid just left, for example. And like, when Don Lemon, they got fired, say left.

They didn't want to leave, they got kicked out.

But they try to make it in the new media world and they're just like, you have no value here because you were never good at this job. You were just good at reading propaganda. To us, you look good and you.

Got put on camera.

Whereas Tucker Carlson get kicked out and he fucking slays it. And he just grows bigger and bigger. Bigger because he's not bought and he's not scared, and he actually is good at communicating and interviewing and getting to the truth. And it's so cool to watch this seismic shifting in the industry.

Yeah, it's really fascinating. It's a fascinating time. And I think it's good for humans.

Oh, yeah.

It's good for the human race. It's good. And there's going to be a lot of bullshit out there. There's a lot of stuff that's not true, but that's okay, too. You'll figure it out. Well, the truth will rise. There's too many people that are telling the truth, and there's too much that's undeniable, that once you start reading, you start questioning virtually everything. Fun time for two things. You guys are just talking.

Oh, yeah. Southern Air Transport. This is the airline. Right. This was the airline used. Came out the same day that they filed for bankruptcy after being in Columbus, Ohio. Being Used by Leslie. Leslie Wexner is deeply tied into those CIA.

A lot of roads lead back to Columbus, Jamie.

Oh, yeah. And it's all because of Leslie Wex. Talk about that.

Jamie's got his own conspiracy files.

Heard that. Yeah.

Yeah. Why? It's just. It's wild how many of these things. And again, before the Internet, this is how they did business. This is why it's so sloppy. It's because the four before the Internet, you didn't have to cover your tracks. You could get away with this stuff.

And the thing about the Internet that I love, that gets me called a controlled opposition all the time, is that I love that all of their tactics work backwards, too. I can use those tactics, too. I can make propaganda, because what propaganda is, is just convincing messaging. And if you have convincing messaging in the hands of an evil fucking megalomaniacal dictator, government, CIA, whatever it is, that's really bad. But if you have propaganda tools in this, in the hands of regular citizens that have morals and values, that want the best for the world, correctly applied, you can fight back against them. And so there's this element where I'm like. I'm looking at how do you. You open people's minds? Like, how do you strategize to, like, get your. Because. And it's a balance, right? Because when I'm reporting on something, it's important to tell the truth. It's important to be accurate. And accuracy. If you really dig enough and get enough accuracy, that that reduces entertainment value. But if you find the way to balance entertainment value with accuracy, the right way, which is always a moving target, you can change the world. Like, I'm a regular dude.

Two years ago, I was an Uber Eats driver, an ultra marathon running guide. I was like a no. 1 in the middle of. Of nowhere. And then I'm like, all right, I'll just contribute and I'll start trying to tell these stories, trying to learn and communicate what's going on.

Well, you have to also have to have a particular knack for it, and you have to be really interested in these things.

Interest is the most important part.

Very. Actually totally, completely interested in it.

I think that a lot of people try to get into, like, podcasting and, like, this Internet field these days, because it's like, what you're supposed to do.

It's a business.

But they don't realize that that's going to be your job every day for the rest of your life. You better fucking love it.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, you've seen that with a lot of Podcasters where they just. They start off and then they fall off because they can't do it because they're not interested.

Yep. And it's a lot of work and a lot of hassle, and there's no guarantee of success. It's, like, very saturated industry, and you.

Have to actually be locked in with what you're talking about, because if you're not, there's too much competition. There's too many people that are locked in.

Yep.

Okay. What do you think is going on with the whole UAP thing?

Dude, I love this conversation.

I love this.

It's the most interesting. Interesting.

I never get tired of it.

Do you want to go the angle of, like, what are the crafts? Or do you want to go the bigger angle of, like, what is the phenomenon?

Okay, let's start with what is the phenomenon?

I think that right now, science and religion and UAP exposure are all converging on similar truths. And what I mean by that is that science. So, you know, the science of consciousness, how we don't really know where the fuck consciousness comes from.

Right.

But there's a lot of people that start to suggest that. It sounds like we're entitled, that are receiving consciousness from some sort of consciousness field or some sort of other.

Like, have you read any Thomas Campbell?

No, I don't think so.

You should read the Big Toe Theory of Everything. It's very bizarre stuff, very hard to swallow. You got to go back and listen to it multiple times.

I like that kind of times.

I had him on the podcast, and at the end of it, I was like, we gotta stop here. Think about everything you said, and then we'll bring you back. And we'll go deeper because he wanted to keep going and go deeper and deeper. Like he's been living in these.

It goes and goes, dude, because you're talking metaphysics, you're talking physics, you're talking history and, like, disclosure about history and dimension. And, like, I suspect that whatever consciousness is coming from is this multiverse, this. This conscious field, this ether, this multidimensional thing, whatever. I suspect that's very similar to what UAPs are traversing in and out of and through. And I suspect that's very similar to what we identify as either the gods, plural, the aliens, plural, that have these abilities. We don't have angels as well as God. God, singular, which is probably the highest up above all of those things. I suspect there's a version of all these things that are starting to converge on one truth, because when you learn about remote viewing, that's what really cracked it for me was learning how much money the CIA has invested in remote viewing over the years. The CIA is not spending millions and millions of dollars on some crackpot bullshit that's not going to work. They would for a little while, but they've been doing it and doing it and doing it. And now we've got disclosure from people that are coming out whistleblowing that they are doing it today and I'm in the program and this is how we did it.

Have you listened to the telepathy tapes?

I've listened to a few of. A little bit of them. I've not listened.

I had Kai Dickens on the podcast the other day and she explained the whole thing. Like provable hours and hours and hours of nonverbal autistic kids who have telepathy. Provable telepathy, undeniable 100 accuracy wild.

Yeah, and I suspect that all of that is. And there's a weaponization of it. There's a. I mean, it's not. Not just public study, but there's definitely been private study of it by the intelligence agencies and probably the weapons developers for a long time. I mean, I was very surprised to hear Elon's answer to your alien question the other day, which I understand that he couldn't talk about it anyway.

That's how I take all of his answers about aliens. Yeah, yeah.

It's like, okay, nice try. I had to try.

All right? But like, look, I don't even. I don't ask him about it off air either. Yeah, I don't.

I mean, you got to respect a man's like private. Like he's got NDAs up the wazoo for that kind of.

So he has top secret military clearance and he runs SpaceX.

Bingo.

Yeah, I would.

Bingo.

I wouldn't say jack shit.

And that's where Flat earth, they all real.

They're pretty. They're very subtle. That's what I would say too.

Exactly. And I think that flat earth, a lot of the evidence that gets cited as flat earth, like for example, NASA fakes footage. And if you look into it, it's fucking obvious that NASA is putting out fake footage. They're clearly on wires in some of that footage. Clearly some of that footage is underwater and there's bubbles fucking floating up and shit. But that footage, just like NASA publishes all kinds of footage from like the ISS to. They have live streams, so they do like videos and no one ever watches it because, like whoever watches random.

So you think some of the ISS footage is fake?

There's a lot of footage you can find online that has come that is coming from NASA where there's like little slips or like a guy is like they're doing their floating and then the buddy reaches out and grabs where a wire is to help his buddy get back into frame. Like little slips of the mic where they're like just trying to orchestrate. Yeah.

And I've never seen any of that. And who knows if it's what real looks hokey.

Yeah. So all I'm saying is that gets cited by flat earthers as like NASA's covering up flat earth.

Okay.

And what I'm saying is that there's a lot of reasons why NASA would cover up and produce fake footage from something like the iss. And every single one of them rhymes with aliens. Because if there's any type of aliens going on up here, it's very possible that they are up there in that fucking space station or they're. Or like they could be like, I don't know. And I'm not saying I think they are for sure. I'm just saying that people tend to look at a piece of evidence and jump too quickly on the one explanation that they're sure is right. And sometimes there's other explanations. And aliens apply to so many parts of our world. Like demons Sound very much like the UAP phenomenon to me. Right. A lot of these religious beliefs sound very much like explainable just with different wording by UAP phenomenon. As in some of these aliens we seem to be. We seem to be being told that they communicate telepathically, they have energetic ability. Right.

Yeah.

I just, I'm getting to the point where I'm suspecting that we're going to have be finding out that religion is like humans trying to interpret these phenomenon over millennia in all the human ways we would and telling stories about them. And I'm not saying that God's not real. I'm saying God is real. And that does not diminish God at all. I almost think it makes God more important and more powerful to understand. Because from my understanding, correct me if you have a different one. It sounds like we're getting a lot of reports that are cross corroborating that there's more than one thing going on here. It's not all aliens are the same and it's not. Some of them might be us from the future. Some of them might be us from under the water. Some of them might be other species. Some of the. It's really hard to pin down like what all these phenomenon are. But they're definitely not just made up.

And I think some of them are ours.

I agree.

I think. And that, I think the COVID up is the weird part though. It's like if you go back to Operation Blueprint Book, that when they started doing that, the sole purpose of Operation Blue Book is to take any credible story and make it look ridiculous.

Yeah.

And they, they talked about that openly. And then Hynek, when he left Operation Blue Book became a believer and started talking about UFOs being real. That's, that's a fucking, that's a big old red flag right there.

I mean the UFO community is filled with people like that that are. And it's really hard to know who's who. It's super hard to know who's who. And did you notice how recently, like the last a month ago sort of there was this breaking story that set the whole UAP community on fire about this disclosure that I think Jeremy Corbell was coming out of whistleblowing on, if I remember correctly, that they were saying that they're gonna blue beam, they're gonna trick us by saying that there's a mothership arriving in three years.

Right.

Right.

Yeah.

And it becomes this thing where it's like how do you know he's saying that he's exposing it, but how do you know if he's exposed? It's just like it's the ultimate test of are you skeptical enough and also open minded enough and thoughtful enough.

Also if there's a belief believer, get them some bullshit. Feed the believer some bullshit.

Exactly. They don't even have to know that they're in on. Right.

They don't have to know. And it could be like kind of plausible bullshit and it could be corroborated with some other bullshit that you have.

I think that's what most bullshit artists are in most fields. I think it's usually useful idiots like people like myself, genuinely like I am in some ways one of those people in the sense that if I get fooled by something, I become that. Which is why it's so important to think really carefully and to be okay with being wrong. Because. Because you never know what your sources are.

Yeah.

And that's also why I'm really, I'm really careful not to do very many like leaks or whistleblows or like. Because how do I know who the fuck you are? I don't want to spend all the time to try to vet you and find out where you came from and your story came from. I'd way rather just Learn. There's so much to learn.

One of the weirdest things about Jacques Vallee's work is that Jacques Vallee has been documenting this stuff again, like since I think the 50s or the 60s is when he started. But he's also documented historical stories. And the historical stories are.

You mean like from before modern times, like 1700s, 1800s.

And these stories are the same story. They're the same story when people never heard of. Not only that, in the 70s, he's documenting this woman that in California found an egg shaped craft in her yard. Like she tells this story about confronting this beast. There's an egg shaped craft, these fucking egg shaped crafts, all described by people who don't know that someone else has described this story.

And no one would ever choose an egg shape when they're describing an aircraft, ever. Especially back then.

And it's also all telepathic communication. It's all like weird moments, lapse of time, memories, confused. You feel like your brain's been erased, don't know what's going on. You find yourself in a field, how did I get here? There's a lot of weird shit that's like the same story over and over and over again. Too much so that you get. First of all, clearly when you're dealing with things in the 17 and 1800s, it's not modern propaganda, it's not the government, it's not. They're not covering up drones in the 1700s. So why are these people saying, why are these stories in the fucking Bhagavad Gita?

I mean you could make the argument, not the Bhagavad Gita, but you could make the argument that back then people were writing fiction or wanted attention. Like those could apply. But I'm skeptical. Skeptical. But yeah, I get down with the ancient ones. Like yeah, Hancocks of this world I love. That was my first conspiracy theory stuff back when I was a leftist is I was just like, ancient conspiracy theories, let's go. It's so compelling. The Great Flood, the Randall Carlson's of this world and the way that they kind of talk about. And it's so obvious more and more and more that there is a cover up. And Jimmy Corsetti has been really going hard at mainstream archeology lately.

No, he's fantastic, right?

To not just look at the evidence of the old school, like the ancient conspiracy theories, but actually to just go at the COVID up today, because that sometimes is the most effective thing is to just target the COVID up because that is clear evidence that we're onto something. Yeah, who knows?

Because of Jimmy Corsetti and his exposure of them planting those trees in. Gobekli Tepe. Yeah, he was one of the first people to say, yeah, they're changing it. They're pulling those trees out. Because he was one of the first people to say, hey, those roots are gonna damage these ruins. And they're like, no, no, no, it's fine, it's safe. And then they're like, actually the roots are damaging the ruins.

But then you do get people that. That like go all the way to like the gods. The one, the guy that thinks Nibiru is the fourth, the twelfth planet or whatever. Zachariah Sitchin. And like, there's people that go so far down these ancient conspiracy theory rabbit holes that I feel like we're getting way off track here, guys. Like, we're starting to cite sources that are not credible and we're taking it to places where like, yeah, maybe the Anunnaki were here to mine gold and maybe we're. I mean, very plausible that we're all genetically un engineered, I think. But there's. There's like a fine line between, between maybe that could be true. And those stories are the best though.

They are fun.

I'm actually, I'm planning to write a book that is sort of like a series of books really in my, like across my later life that is basically. Imagine writing a book that is like set in the. You could write ancient books about the old school where if that was book was real, you could still wind up in today's world with all the same evidence we have, and it could still be real even if back then it's crazy magic and there's like all this crazy shit going on. It could still end up with, oh, the pyramids are left over from that and oh, the ruins are here after that great flood thing happened, right? And then you could like write all kinds of crazy conspiracy theory stories into today that like, how could you prove that this is not real?

I think.

I just think that's the most fun aspect is how much we don't know.

Well, the evidence of ancient technology is one of the more fascinating aspects of trying to piece together our past. Because whatever explanation you try to use to make the pyramids, none of them work.

Nope, not even close.

None of them work. None of them work.

And even their purpose doesn't make any fucking sense. Clearly they were not tombs. I mean, they pretty clearly are some sort of power generation or something like that energy.

Christopher.

I've been seeing Timothy, the grand master of the Knights Templar guy that's going around on podcasts these days. Timothy someone. Yeah. Dude is crazy.

Dowd, right? Christopher Dowd. So I've heard Christopher Dowd is done. Christopher Dunn. Sorry, Chris.

Christopher Dunn came with a different guy's last name. Yeah, right.

Yeah. I'm thinking of Mike dowd from the 7:2, the documentary Corrupt Police Department. So what's done Christopher Dunn is all about? Well, he's an engineer, and his theory was that it was a giant power plant. And he has a very sophisticated geese of the power plant. Very.

Is he talking about the aquifers underneath them and the two types of stones? Sort of a thing.

He's talking about, about the. The physical structure of the way the pyramid was made and that there was, excuse me, the subterranean chamber that they used to generate, like, a pounding of vibration that went through the entire structure of the pyramid. It generated this vibration. And they had chemicals that were coming in that were producing hydrogen. He had the king's chamber. The way it's lined up. This is exactly how you do it. If you were trying to do this. Like, everything matches up mathematically. It's fascinating.

And they're built on aquaphores from the Nile flooding every year. And every year, when the Nile flows, floods, water rushes underneath those pyramids through these, like, stony, kind of like porous, rocky structures under there. It's just there's so many interesting versions of what it could be.

At the very least, it's a mystery. And it's also a mystery that shows fantastic engineering and construction methods and the ability to move rocks and bring them from 500 miles away through the mountains that are 50 tons. Like, how?

I suspect telepathy of some form. I suspect, like, alien capability. Do you think it's technology, or do you think it's like.

Well, it's some kind of technology. Right.

You don't think it could possibly be that aliens have the ability to literally move things with their minds?

I mean, look, if you're dealing with something that can come here from another planet, communicates telepathically, who knows? Who fucking knows? But even if it's human beings, let's say it's super sophisticated human beings that lived at the very least 4,500 years ago, because that's the conventional dating of the conventional construction, even that you're like, how?

Yep, we can't do it today.

How? And people that say we can't. Sure we could. It would take hundreds of years.

Jimmy's done. Jimmy Corset. He's done some great videos where he Compiles real videos of us moving large objects today. And like the trucks breaking and the cranes falling off of cliffs and all this of like, look at how hard it is to move these kinds of rocks. It's crazy.

It's crazy. And the idea that they were completed in 20 years. Yeah, total garbage.

Yeah.

It's nonsense. And it's also like these archeologists are so, they're clinging to this narrative because this is what they taught in school, they wrote books about.

And then when you look at the conspiracy, the COVID up, there's no reason for that level of COVID up if it's just a building technology. That's where I start to go. Clearly that is connected to these UAP technologies, to these free energy technologies, whatever it is. There has to be some sort of reason why covering up how these ancient structures and ancient cultures were built and worked worked has to relate somehow to something very important and valuable today.

I think they also have to somehow or another explain it. Because to say that it's impossible opens up too many doors and it removes the expert. Because you're not an expert anymore because you're one of us now. You might know more about that site than I do, but you still don't know what the happened. So you have to claim or at least push it out there. Air. You're the voice of reason. You're the voice of. This is, this is the actual historians. We're the real archeologists. Don't worry, we've got it covered.

I saw a really funny meme the other day that was, it was like four pictures and it was. Humanity gets really intelligent, invents AI. AI builds all these crazy technologies and pyramids. Sunflower wipes out AI, humanity restarts. Yeah, it could be, that's a fair affair. I mean, how would we know?

Or it could be the asteroids that hit or the, the comets that hit at the Younger Dryest impact.

It is an interesting split in the convers, right between the solar flare conversation and the comet impact conversation. And there's like evidence for both.

Right, right.

Could have been both, could have been both.

Or across period of a thousand versions of it. Well, that's the Younger Dryest impact theory. They think there was more than one event. They think there was an event around 11,800 years ago and then again around 10,000 plus years ago. And this, this makes sense why civilization sort of emerges 6,000 years ago. Because it's like we were probably fucking savages for thousands of years. We're probably monsters. Monsters.

I mean, I'd imagine That we only lived inside of sorts of like Elora caves type places for a while. Right, right.

Which is nuclear evidence of these massive underground structures that they can't explain. Why would someone use their resources in a time of hunters and gatherers to build these underground structures that are fucking insane. Like multiple football fields underground, entire cities.

That can house thousands of people. And a couple smart researchers point out, research really astutely, that if you were doing that to hide from other humans, to like protect yourself from other humans, you would never dig into a cave system that you could just get drowned in.

Right.

You would never dig into a cave system that has no way out so that you can just get sealed in.

Right.

That's clearly not. It wasn't to escape humans you'd have.

To leave to get food.

Bingo.

You'd be trapped. Like the Mongols used to like famously sit outside cities for weeks just waiting for people to starve. Just, we'll just wait. We have plenty of food out here. Here.

And that's another example of this exact same phenomenon we're talking about, of these old control systems that work perfectly well in the old era. And now that we have this communication technologies and everyone's getting linked together, it's just the free flow of ideas that just. It's like this natural evolution of consciousness and humanity that we just naturally start to break through those mech. I'm of the mindset that yeah, we can all change the world. And yeah, we all our choices do matter a lot. But also in some ways, we're all just part of this cosmic system of like the evolution. Like we're all just part of this giant humanity system, right, where we all collectively on balance with all the weird probabilities of all these people. We're going to evolve technology. We were going to industrial revolutionize, we were going to find oil, we were going to discover electronics, we were going to invent AI. It was always going to happen.

Right?

And this is an era that is always what's going to happen. And it will happen one way or the other. Like we affect how it happens. We could go the Whitney Webb dystopian, like they rule us with surveillance every, every, everywhere. Or we could go to this great utopia of like, everyone has enough and we're all, you know, using technology for the better well thing.

I think she's right that that's a possibility.

Super one to talk about too.

Well, you know, Elon talks about like there's an 80% chance that AI will save us, 20% chance it'll rule us.

I do respect how he, he openly will say that like, like, yeah, the things I'm inventing could be used for evil. Like the things I'm inventing are dangerous like, and we need to be careful and regulate them properly and create them with intention and careful care. I don't know as he's necessarily doing as much as I would hope he's doing to take care with that. But I'm sure glad it's him and not Jeffrey Epstein who was deeply interested in all these same technologies. This is a whole other side of him that no one talks about is his interest in technologists and geneticists and all those things. Right?

Yeah, well, he had a lot of influence over scientists. That's a creepy move to like take.

Scientists and throw parties for them, throw conventions for them. And a couple of them he had, he pro a couple them had some serious accusations like Marvin Minsky for example. But I bet a lot of them were not like compromised like Stephen Hawking. Everyone freaked out when Stephen Hawking was on the list. But it makes perfect sense as you realize that he was throwing conventions on that island for scientists specifically to bring them all together. Because that way you get connections, you can get favors, even if you're not blackmailing them, then they just want to be in your, on your good side because you have all these connections and you can fund all their projects and you, you become, become this integral part of this technological, technological sort of space.

Right. Blackmail's not the only tool that's a blunt instrument. There's, there's a lot of just, just connections.

He also just hooked people up with wives. Like do you know that he claimed that he introduced Melania to Trump? Yeah, yeah, that's a crazy one. I suspect Melania conspiracy time. I suspect that Melania has been whispering in Trump's ear. I think she was trafficked before, either either bad trafficked or good or just like knew Epstein and like knew that world a little bit. But I suspect that she's been whispering in his ear about what that really is and does and all that things because a lot of she's been kind of like acting from the back a lot. But when you really dig into what Melania's been doing, she's very, very active in anti trafficking and in protecting traffic victims and girls and stuff. And, and as Trump when he married her, and then they have Baron and he's watching his son grow up. So you have this young child and you have this wife telling you about her previous life probably and just whispering in your ear that like, this could be your legacy. This could be your legacy. This could be your legacy. Right. Because he used to be friends with those people.

Even though I don't think he. I don't think he was blackmailed because I think that would have come out when the Democrats were going for him.

Right.

And maybe he was involved in the trafficking a little bit because of the things that he bought and the people that he knew and like Roy Cohn connections, but I don't even know about that. But regardless, he knows the game. And then he marries Melania and then more and more like he was in charge when Epstein went. Went down. He was the only one that when Epstein got arrested and they were going around asking for dirt, he was like, I'll fully fucking cooperate that guy. I'll tell you everything that I know. And so I suspect that Melania has been instrumental in his sort of shift to being the only guy willing to go after those traffickers.

Out of all the information that's getting disclosed, supposedly this administration, what do you have the least faith that we're going to come to?

Absolutely, for sure, Epstein. And I think it's because of Israel. I think that. Because I think. I mean, when you really dig into Epstein, his entire network was Israel. It was clearly he like Ehud Barak was the ex prime minister and the ex head of Israeli intelligence. Leslie Wexner was one of the most powerful pro Israeli philanthropists. The whole organization was Israel. So I'm not saying it was all of Israel.

It was all an intelligence gathering.

And, and it was targeting Americans. It was targeting American officials and the American president. And the CIA does have interest in those targets too. Elements in the CIA does. Certainly they had help from the CIA and certainly they had help from these other organized crime and intelligence operations. But you don't like. So, for example, Dan Bongino, the new was he deputy director of the FBI, he recently had this clip that went all around where he said on camera that he had had a source that he trusted deeply and he's an informed guy. He was at Fox News interview and the source told him that Epstein was working for an intelligence agency in the Middle East. And I don't know which one, but someone in the Middle. Middle East. And to be fair, we all already knew this. We all. We already know who he worked for. At least I think so. But I'm looking at. Okay, Dan, so if this giant group of Jewish billionaires is running a sex trafficking operation targeting American politicians and business people and stuff, you think they're working with an Arab or Muslim nation in the Middle East. Like, you think that Leslie Wexner is devoting his entire life to philanthropies on behalf of Israel, but then he's gonna work for Saudi Arabia when he's doing this trafficking.

Right. But if someone says to him that they're all working for a country in the Middle east, knowing he knows what that means, but not specifying, doesn't he kind of have to repeat it that same way?

Well, he also has to repeat it the same way because he won't get the job if he says Israel, because Israel has so much control over our government right now. And I'm not saying that all Jews are in on something. Clearly Internet. Thank you.

Clearly Internet.

And Joe is definitely not saying that.

Definitely not.

But the Israel's government is every bit as vulnerable to the deep state effect as the American government. But I would argue that Israel's government is way more vulnerable to it because of the people that founded Israel. And the way it was founded, it was founded in a modern time, much more recently by, like, it was a revolutionary founding. And I can totally sympathize with the Jewish desire to have that state. Like, I get it, but because of the way that happened, the people that founded Israel, Israel were a bunch of organized crime figures in America, the Jewish mob that were helping with money and with arms trafficking to get the guns there, because they had to have guns. And it was the Rothschild banking family sending a whole bunch of money and getting the declaration in the first place. And then the people that were there, the three different organizations, the Irgun, the Lehigh Group, and the Haganah, those were the three, like, paramilitary groups that fought to found Israel. And they're like the heroes of Israel, which I understand the narrative that they're heroes. But when Israel was officially founded, they officially designated Irgin and Lehi as terrorist organizations because they had been bombing civilians, they'd been bombing British civilians.

The first official act of terror before they changed the definition was the bombing of the King David Hotel, where these terrorists, these Lehigh and Irgin terrorists, a bunch of different groups who. One of the guy who planned that bombing later became the prime minister of Israel, they were bombing civilians. And so when those are the groups that are fighting to found that nation, even if all the Jews there are wonderful people, the leadership is inherently composed of these people that have been deeply corrupt for all time. And so you get this fertile ground for this kind of deep state effect to take power. And when you start to research the heads of state of Israel over history, you Realize that a bunch of them were in those groups doing those terrorist acts and have done a bunch of dark stuff because those were the people that were at the top of that military organization. Like the. Those terrorist organizations reformed to form the idf.

And what's interesting is you can talk about this now post October 7th.

It opens wide open post Gaza. You want to know a funny story? Actually, I didn't know shit about it. And I started doing 911 stuff. And I was doing a 911 video on my YouTube and I knew about the Dancing Israel Israeli conspiracy theory. That is very much a real set of documents. And I knew that I'm not allowed to talk about Israel for some reason. I didn't really know why. And I realized, like, I better fucking understand this thing before I crater my new channel and career on this topic. I don't understand if I'm going to take a stance against Israel at all, I should understand why and how. And so I started doing research and I, I shelved that research and I switched to researching Israel and Palestine and the history there and what's going on on. And I finished the video and it was October 6th and I was like, I. I was very worried because it's like you weren't allowed to talk about it. And I had just made this whole documentary about the history of Israel, Palestine and, and the propaganda and what it all was. I published on October 6th on my locals channel.

And I kind of had this like, lean back and like, if that's the end of the ride and I get canceled for this, so be it. And then literally the next day, and I'm not saying that October 7th will just good thing, but I'm saying that literally the next day the entire Internet was ablaze about Israel and Palestine and everyone was talking about it. And it was the weirdest fucking coincidence. Like, and suddenly it was like, oh, all right, let's fucking dig this thing open. Because unfortunately it is, I mean, I think, fortunately, I think that the state, the state of the Israeli influence that, that sustained them for so long, that was essential to them surviving this long. I think that it has grown cancerous to the Jewish faith in general because. Because Jeffrey Epstein is the perfect example of this. Jeffrey Epstein was the world's most prolific and evil sex trafficker that we know of so far ever. And he very clearly was a Jewish organization of Jewish people working on behalf of Israel and other groups. And so that's a dark stain on Israel and on the Jewish people if you own it.

Like, if you try to defend that, that's not good. You don't want to have to defend that. You want to be free of that kind of shit because the Jewish people don't believe in that. That's not what Jews are. Jews are regular people. Just like it's the deep state of.

The intelligence agencies in Israel.

And the thing about Israel is that Jewish people have every incentive to need to defend Israel.

Right, right.

Because if I'm a Jew, it's like, of course you have to defend Israel. Like, that's very understandable. It's your people. And you don't want another Holocaust. Like, you don't want another. Like what Jew? Like, Jews have been in conflict with other people for ages because they are outsiders and because they're so different and because they grew up and lots of reasons. But you don't. Like, as a Jewish person, you're now faced with this choice. Do I stand by Israel always, forever, for everything, and defend everything they do, or do I get labeled as a self hating Jew? Like Dave Smith gets labeled, like, like Glenn Greenwald gets labeled? Do I stand against all of my culture and do I get ostracized by my family and by my community? But the problem is that if you have to defend everything that Israel does, you're forced to defend this fucking deep state that is in bed with these organized crime figures.

Right.

And I would argue that that Israeli deep state is just as much in bed with all the other organized crime as our deep state is, as the Saudi deep state is. There's evil people at the top of all these governments.

Well, the thing is, Israel is connected to one race of people. That's correct. Whereas the United States, which also is involved in a lot of really fucked up things all over the world. When people think about the United States, they don't think about it as one.

Bingo.

Yeah.

Yep. And so it just puts us all in this impossible situation. And it's this, it's an impossible conversation that we all. And I'm glad for it because it's a maturing process and I think we need to do it very delicately and very carefully and thoughtfully because Jewish people are people and they're not evil. Like, but there are evil Jewish people and there are evil American people and there are evil Saudi people. And it's just. That's the way it is.

Well said.

Right?

Well said.

And so. And so I welcome the conversation. But unfortunately the. The thing for me, fortunately, is when I first researched it, I came across this documentary on Rumble called the Occupation of the American Mind, which is a very well put together documentary that is mostly Jewish people speaking about the history of Israel and about how they realized in the 80s when there was this specific operation where they wound up bombing this refugee camp called Sabra and Shatila or a refugee camp in a place called Sabra and Chatilla. And there was other bombing like atrocities. It was like, I guess it was a massacre, it wasn't a bombing. And it was the first time where Western journalists had taken video cameras over there and video feed were coming back of the conflict of what was happening. And American sentiment turned really harshly against Israel in the 80s there. And they realized we don't need to win just the. The kinetic war. We need to win the ideological war on the global scale. Because if we don't win that ideological war, the whole world will turn against us and call us a colonial project, which I would argue they kind of are.

But that's not the point here. And I don't mean to say I'm necessarily right about my perspective on that. But that's when they switched to a propaganda war and they started targeting the United States with propaganda. And they hired the world's top propagandists to tell. To teach Israelis and Israeli military officials and government officials how to communicate with the west and how to propagandize the west so that we would remain in the dark a little bit. That's why we have this veil and this anti Semitism thing and this like all the. It's why you're not allowed to talk about it because it evolved over time. And they eventually Howard. They hired this guy that I think is called Howard Luntz. And Luntz worked with the Israel Project. There's a report online that came out in 2009, I think, called the Israel. The Israel Language Dictionary. The Israel American Language Dictionary. And it's basically a word for word. This is how you discuss the rockets raining down. This is how you discuss the settlements. This is how you discuss the occupation. Occupation and the palace and all these things. And they use examples of words that work and words that don't work.

And when you read it, you realize, like, holy. That's exactly what politicians have been saying on TV my entire life. And they use Obama as one example of really good words that work. You should talk like Obama because he's good at sort of empathizing with the other side and making us understand that like, we're here for peace and they're the terrorists. And. And I say that to mean that we live inside this propagandized space because it's been essential to them for so long, long to protect that image in order to continue the deep state element of what they're doing. When I would argue that we would all be much better off if Bibi was not there and we had a more sane person in charge of Israel that was actually there for peace and not there for whatever the Bibi is doing, and we could start to heal this thing and talk about it.

Most people in the general public aren't even aware that the Israeli people were protesting against Netanyahu before October 6th. Hundreds kicked out hundreds of thousands of people in the streets and that it had been going on for a long time.

100%.

Yeah.

I suspect. I'm hoping I'm not blowing the lid on Trump's idea here. I kind of suspect that Trump is kind of in on a coup against Netanyahu right now. This is just my theory based upon the way he talked about, like, occupying Gaza and the way he's friends with Jared Kushner and the way he's friends with the Adelsons. I suspect that these powerful Jews, like, the Adelson type people, are starting to realize that Netanyahu, who is. Is kind of sinking this ship and he's kind of fucked it all up, and it's not going well for Israel in the public conversation. Like, I can. I can ratio just about anyone I want on Twitter over the Israel thing, because the public sentiment is just shifting and it's not. It's not healthy for anyone, for Jewish people or anyone else. And I'd suspect that the powerful Jewish people are starting to see that and are starting to scheme on how do we fudgeing, Get Netanyahu out of there and put someone in that. That can actually, actually be. Move us towards some sort of peace. Because without a genuine desire for, like, Netanyahu is on camera saying that they have propped up Hamas in the Gaza Strip because they don't want a real government in the Gaza Strip because it's far better for them to run this occupation and to eventually take the land if Hamas is.

I mean, I'm. That's not an exact quote. Everyone should look that up for themselves.

But not just propped up, but funded.

Exactly. Yeah. And intentionally, like, kept there.

Just when you hear that, you're like, well, what's the logic for funding Hamas? What? What?

Well, it's the exact same logic as us funding the Taliban. Yeah. The exact same logic, the exact same strategies.

Did you see that? God, I wish I would remember where it was happening, where someone had to say, are we really sending the Taliban $40 million a week. Yeah, we were.

Yeah, 100%.

Yeah.

And it's. And it happens over and over and over again as we just are like, we're just sending money willy nilly to all these like Ukraine, Israel, Taliban, you name it. Like, and those are just a small spatter. And we've done it across, across the whole world. Indonesia, Central America.

Forever.

Forever. And it's this playbook of the deep state is a funny term. I think it's kind of time to retire it because it's not the deep state. It's like this corporate, like transnational corporate criminal organization space where transnational corporations like the banks, like J.P. morgan, Jamie Dimon, they were banking. Jeffrey Epstein, they don't answer to us. They're not American. They don't give a about America. Like they give a shit about money and power. And they're legally required to because they're a public corporation. That's a whole blackrock. Yeah, we could go down. It's crazy. And so like when you look at it as, as people who have this globalist. And actually that's why people shit on Alex, Alex Jones for saying globalists. Like all the fucking anti Jew people are like, just say the Jews. And it's like, no, dude, like there's way more going on here. And the, and the tie that binds all of them together, the Klaus Schwab's of this world, the, the Jeff Bezos is the. And I don't know, maybe Jeff's a good guy, I don't know. But like the people that don't think in terms of these are my people and I love them, but I'd rather I'm like a piece of this global community of billionaires that like our job is just to make money and fucking control the world.

Like Bill Gates is a great example. They live outside of our world and they do not give a shit if Covid kills 10,000 people or 100,000 people or 10 million people, whatever. And I'm generalizing because obviously they are individuals and they each have their own perspective on what's going on. But it feels to me from researching there's enough of them that are evil that they're doing some horrible things. And the ones that are a little less evil, maybe they know what they're in on. Maybe they only know some of it because you don't have to disclose everything. And these kinds of plans, like for example, in a CIA plot to overthrow the government of Guatemala, you're not telling everyone the whole plan.

They didn't tell Smedley Butler.

No, they didn't tell him shit. They told him that. They told him this, that they were going to overthrow a communist that was already taking over the. Like, I think they probably told him that he was a Jewish communist because they think they were riding on like FDR's second in command was Henry Morgan Thou Jr. And he was deeply aligned with the Jewish, like the, the rich Jewish kind of powers in the world at that day. And there was a lot of anti Jewish sentiment back then. And so I, I suspect that they told Smedley Butler that like, this Jew, this guy's a Jewish plant and he's part of the Rothchild thing. And like, we need. He's a communist. We need to overthrow.

Throw him.

And Smedley didn't buy it. Smedley collected research on them and he went to FDR and he exposed the whole plot. But the problem was that FDR couldn't do anything because these people, titans of industry, like, like the Bushes of the world, the Fords, the. I don't even know all their names at this point. It's been a while since I did that dig. He couldn't do anything. And so nothing happened. He couldn't charge them because they just said, you just got out of the Great Depression. We will your economy up. Done. Done. And there's so much power.

Let's bring this to a halt. Yeah, enough. You freak me out. The rest thing up, dude.

I know. Let's real quickly though, be clear.

Okay?

Joe does not agree with everything that I just said on this podcast.

I can't believe what you said.

Yeah. Joe doesn't know. Okay.

So upset.

This is me and Carol speaking to you and. Right.

Outrageous.

And also so, like, I'm perfectly willing to have a conversation about this. Like, I don't know that I'm right about everything. I just know the sources I've read and where I've read them and. And I try my best to figure out where they are.

Very, very reasonable. Very reasonable in the way you do this. And I think it's a valuable service. So thank you very much. Thanks. It was a lot of fun too.

Thank you.

It was very enjoyable. Tell everybody how they can find you.

Yeah, find me on X. Ian Carroll's show. And I have a new website that just launched, which is cancel iancarol.com so cancel me, bitches.

Perfect.

Come at me.

Bye, everybody.