Hello, friends, welcome to the show. This episode, the podcast is brought to you by Trager Grilles. I'm a gigantic fan of Trager Grills. I've been using one long before it was ever a sponsor of the podcast. It's my absolute favorite way to cook. It's real simple to use and control and the result is delicious. It just uses wood and fire. It uses hardwood pellets that they make from sawdust. They just compress that sawdust and using the natural sugars of the wood, it makes these little pellets.

You pour the pellets into a hopper. The hopper feeds into this worm drive that feeds the pellets to this heating element. Poof, fire and wood. Complicated how they do it. Again, it's real, you know, beautiful electronics and everything. But it's basically the way the food comes out. It just gives you the taste of fire and wood. I love it. It also has a beautiful application, this wi fi app that has over fifteen hundred recipes and you can control your grill from anywhere with it.

You can lower array's temperature as a meat probe that also you read on the on the app. So you go getting you can cook all kinds of ways. You can bake, you can barbecue, you can grill. It's this anum, you can smoke things on the grill. It's just an amazing grill. I love it. I cook on it constantly. I'm a big fan of it for cooking wild game in particular because you really got to get the temperature right with wild game.

I like to cook it at two hundred twenty five degrees. I cook it nice and slow, so I get to an internal temperature of about one twenty five ish and then I take it out and I see it on the outside in a frying pan or I turn up the heat, the trigger, pull it out, crank the heat up to five hundred and then put it back in for a little time to get that nice crust. You can get these trigger grills either online or you can get them at ten thousand plus stores nationwide and Friday, June 12th through Sunday, June twenty.

First there's an awesome sale. A hundred bucks off select grills. The Pro twenty to the pro thirty four. The Pro five seventy five. Which is why fire the application, the enabled and the pro 780 which is also wi fi enabled. It's an awesome company. They make amazing grills and you can visit them at Trader Grills Dotcom Joe and use the code Rogan at checkout to get free shipping on all orders were also brought to you by Squarespace Squarespace, the host of my Web site, Joe Rogan Dotcom.

And it's an awesome place for you to make a website. If you need a website, you no longer need to hire somebody. You can do the whole thing yourself. If you know how to move files around on a desktop, it's that simple. You can do it.

They have a simple, easy to use drag and drop user interface and gorgeous designer templates that allow anyone, including a moron like me, to make a beautiful professional website.

Each website comes with a free online store and you can start selling things. You you have powerful ecommerce functionality that lets you sell anything online. You can also customize the look, the feel, the settings, the products and more. With just a few clicks, you can change things. Everything is optimized for mobile right out of the box. They have built in search engine optimization, free and secure, hosting nothing to patch or upgrade ever and 24 seven award winning customer support.

Seriously, if you need a Web site, you no longer need to hire anybody. You can do all of it yourself and they're so confident of that they'll let you try it for free. So you go to Squarespace Dotcom slash Joe for a free trial. Then when you're ready to launch, use the offer Cojo and you will save ten percent off your first purchase of a website or domain. We're also brought to you by the motherfucking cash app. That's right.

The God damn motherfucking cash app cash app is an amazing application for finance. It is the easiest way to send money between your friends and family without having to hold paper cash. It's also the best way to try to grow your money with their investing feature. And unlike other unreliable bullshit ass investing tools that force you to buy entire shares of stock, Kashyap lets you invest in the market with as little as a dollar cash. EPS also the easiest way to buy and sell bitcoin.

So what the fuck are you waiting for? And of course, when you download the cash app, enter the referral code. Joe Rogan, all one word, you will receive ten dollars and the cash app will send ten dollars to our good friend Justin Bren's fight for the forgotten charity building wells for the Pigmies in the Congo. And through this promotion, we're very happy to say that we've raised a shitload of money and built several wells in the process of building more right now.

And Justin runs one of the greatest people that's ever lived. So don't forget, use the promo code. Joe Rogan. When you download the cash out from the App Store or the Google Play store today, you score ten bucks and ten bucks goes to and a. Amazing cause and we're also brought to you by legal zoom, it's a whole new world out there. We've all faced new challenges now. And if you need legal help for you to overcome some of yours, that's where legal zoom fits in.

Well, maybe you've been wondering about the best way to protect your family, or maybe you're thinking about starting a business, but you don't know the best way to do it. Well, don't let legal questions hold you back. Legal Zoom has been dedicated to helping you with the right solutions for more than 19 years. And if you're looking to protect your family with a will or a living trust or you're thinking about the right way to start a business with a DBA, an LLC nonprofit or more legal, Zoom's got you covered.

It's easy to get started online. And if you need guidance, their network of attorneys can provide advice to ensure that you make the right choices. And since Legal Zoom is in a law firm, you won't have to leave your home and you won't get charged by the hour. Visit legalzoom.com, today to take care of some important things that you need to get done. Legal Zoom where life meets legal. My guest today is one of the greatest combat sports athletes of all time, he is an Olympic gold medalist and wrestling.

He won two championships in the UFC in two different divisions and recently retired. He's a spectacular athlete and a great human being. Please give it up for the powerful Henry pseudo government broadcaster.

Now, the Joe Rogan experience trained by day generally and podcast by night all day. And we salute you. How are you, sir? I'm doing good. Good to see you, man. What does it feel like? What does it feel like?

Having step back? You step away. You get to look at it from a fresh perspective. What does this feel like? It feels good, but it it feels I think the biggest thing with me, Joe, is there's satisfaction in my life.

You know what I'm saying?

I've done so much in the sport. And I can compare myself a little bit to Daniel. You know, if Daniel would have beat me and he would retired on top head, you could almost say retarded, the two division world champ. And I don't feel like I have that chip on my shoulder. You know, as a wrestler, I retired from the Olympics at a very young age, you know, decided to come back three years later. But you know what I mean?

It was it was already done.

He retired at the age of 21 and then now at the age of thirty three, I'm truly calling it quits unless there's there's a couple of fights that if I do come back, I like that word unless I like that word.

Yeah. And as you know and a little bit it's before it was about the money a little bit with the U.S. you know, obviously not everybody does have a price. But I think there's there's there's a fight that I would really like in the U.S. and that would be against Alexander Volcanoes.

GI Bill. Yeah. If 35 at 45, if they're to give me an opportunity to go up and obviously be compensated, then that would be a fight that would really that would really wake me up in the morning, be like, hey, man, this is this is a challenge.

It's a whole new mountain, you know, a chance to be a three division world champion, a chance to be a through division world champion.

As you know, a lot of people are coming be out against Demitrius, against TJ, against Marland.

Maybe it was you two, you know, and I think that's what I love about it. You can't find any evidence of me counting you out, sir. Never. So I love that.

I love challenges since I was a kid. I knew I was I knew I was different. You always special.

And these are the what is it that you knew? Like what separates you? Oh, my God.

I think it's I think it's a couple of things. If I was to explain it to you, like what's what's made me successful. And and I've seen it, you know, being at the Olympic Training Center as a high school kid and living out there for four years. And that's actually where I met Daniel. And I was a six year old kid when I first met these guys. And I was able to analyze a lot of the greats, like, you know, Steven Abess, Daniel Cormie, a lot of the Olympic team.

And what I've learned now that the age of thirty three, I learned that there's been two things that have separated me from from the rest of the pack. It's it's it's two things. It's what I call heart and ability. And I was actually able to tell this story to to Chatree, you know, the the founder and CEO of one FC.

And, you know, so it's two things.

I call it heart and ability. What is your heart? Your heart is your passion, your wheel, your desire, your determination. Your heart is something that you want to suffer for in order to obtain.

Now, the next one is ability.

You know, ability is the gift that you have since since, you know, it's a coordination. It's it's something that you've repped over time when you become a master at it. And what happens a lot of time and I always tell people it's good to question one or the other. It's good to question the mind. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. The heart or the ability, because to be the one percent of the one percenters like both these things have to match.

What happens is a lot of people have heart, but their abilities are way down here.

You know, their ability doesn't match their heart or their abilities up here.

And they're just a little lazy and can't put the yoke because there is a separation between mind and body. And your job is to connect them both.

And I'm going to use an example with Mallen. Meraj, you saw me getting my ass kicked. You saw me getting, like, kicked, you know, from the first two. I went to the second round, but I knew that I had to connect it and make that transition. That was a combination of combine the heart in the ability, you know, so I was able to kind of show what separated me.

I say that I think is being being gifted through the ability and then just having a passion, a will that's just second to none.

There's a lot of other factors, though, isn't there's like not just ability. It's also you have to be coached by someone who really knows what they're doing. It's there's there's so many guys out there that are really tough and they have will and they work out hard and they're in shape, but they just make tactical mistakes and they've never corrected those mistakes.

Yeah, well, I think that also goes back on the ability I would put that to the ability portion. The reason why is because you got to put yourself in the right situations like I did and start winning. And I let go my coaches.

The first time I lost Demetrius Johnson, it was man, it was hard. And this is some very crazy and cynical, but it was kind of hard to blame myself, even though I was trained, because I knew coming from an Olympic sport that I had a coach that could take me to the top.

And there was no ifs or buts. Like I knew he knew the recipe. And it may was still a fairly new and it's still a fairly new sport. So I knew that I had to find the professors. I knew that I had to find the scientists and all this in order for me to become that perfect storm. So that's exactly what we did, you know, put in putting the science. A recovery of find the right coaches, listening to my ability, understanding my biomechanics like it was a mixture of all these things, that's that's me that's separating me from the first Mafa Dimitrius till just been just been a legend killer to bring all these guys that they said, you know, Demetrius Johnson, T.J., you know, Mariah's Dominick Cruz man, that's that's a hell of a list.

Just a hell of a list.

You know, it's a hell it's one of the reasons why it bums me out that you retired like a lot of conflicting feelings. One, I'm happy, I'm happy. Retired, young and healthy. And you could do anything you want, man. I really believe a guy who can accomplish what you accomplish inside the Arcon and also winning an Olympic gold medalist, you winning Olympic gold medal in wrestling at 21 years old, retiring from the sport, then getting into May, being coming a two division world champion in May and then stepping away while you're still healthy and at the peak of your abilities.

Part of me loves that. I love the fact that you did what you wanted to do and then you step away. But part of me looks back at like, say, when you fought Benevides or say when you fought Demitrius the first time and then looks at you now like you're a completely different animal. Nobody had been able to shut down Dominic Cruz's footwork game, but you came in and just chopped the shit out of his legs just right off the bat.

You you whatever advantage we thought that he would have with his footwork and movement, what was actually becoming a disadvantage?

Because you you were using that against him. You were you found the angles and you found the perfect times to attack his legs and then you put him away, which is also something no one's ever done before. Except you're right. I caught him in a submission and finish finished them. But no one's ever put it away, put him away the way you did.

Yeah. And I think it's all about game plan.

And I think people are you know, I think the ability that I have to that separates me to the fact that I'm watch all my fights and I fight everybody different like I really do. And there's times where I have to use wrestling, as I did with, well, the Wilson Hayes fire.

It's a great example. You came out a karate guy. Yeah. I was like, holy shit, look at this. You were like Wonderboy sideways stance, like hands down. You really fought like a karate guy. And then when you caught him with that straight punch and dropped him, I was like, look at this shit. This is crazy. Well, you fought a different style. Yeah.

And I think what Dominic, to just get back to him, it's in order for you to understand, in order for you to understand the funk, like you have to train for the funk. You know, if you don't train for Dominic, if you think you can just go out there and just fight or change the way you train and try to fight Dominic, you're going to be missing. So throughout my training camps, like I treated almost like a wrestler, like a boxer, like my training camp, like I build the team around me.

I have a mentor, actually, who's here? Dave, the one who's, you know, who's been helping me to shape. He's a businessman, but he's been able to help me to formed like, you know, obviously the perfect storm. And, you know, we brought guys in from California that mimic just like they were just a little faster than Dominic. And I knew that I was even trying to touch his face because I knew that he was a hard hit.

But I also knew that he would leave his legs a lot. You know, you can you can push your body backwards, but your legs will always be in that same position. So the whole game plan since the beginning, this is why I felt so confident that fight through training was to continue. Just keep taking his legs as much as I can.

Did the first round of your fight with Marlon Morales sort of open your eyes to like how effective that can be in a fight? Absolutely.

Man, we saw it this weekend. Yeah, you saw it this weekend, everybody. You mentioned it actually. And I was I was a little bummed that you mentioned it because a lot of people don't see those little details, those cap kicks, man. You start to take out that little segment and you lose your mobility.

It's it's insane how we've had all these years of mgmt. Right. 1993, the UFC starts here. We are in twenty twenty, but it's really only been the last two years or so. I give credit to Bensen Henderson because Bentson Henderson was the first guy to really bring it to me.

Yeah, but for whatever reason, it wasn't as devastating when he was doing it. I don't know if he was doing it differently, but there was no moment in a fight where he kicked someone's calf and he saw immediately that Bucklin. But you're seeing that now with these guys, like immediately one, two kicks and the leg is semi useless. Yeah.

You look at somebody, like, just engaging. Just Gaikai is many people don't catch on to that.

If Kebede will catch on to that and he's in trouble, you know, and both he said why like wide out in the open.

He said when I if I could be because I'm not even going to try to kick him in his thighs, I'm just going to kick him with that low cap kick. He goes, I want to kick him four times. He goes after four times, he's fucked. Yeah.

And he saw that you watch the fight with him and Ayton Barbosa and that's metabolises. He's a high level striker. But what really broke down Ayton Barbosa was what Justin did till he started whipping that, that, that calf kick.

And actually right before I even thought Dominic like I went on YouTube like this is like maybe an hour before I went to the arena and I just put like some just geeky highlights, just ruthless man, just really just.

Swinging those kids with bad intentions, all was just emerging. And also the reason why I've been able to kick and do things like that is I'm very comfortable in my takedown defense. You know, it's like John, John, John, John is so comfortable with the standard because he knows his ability to stop Sony from taking him down, which is so much higher. And I feel that same way. So I become a little more free with my kicks, punches and things of that matter.

We saw two guys in one of the weight classes that you ruled over, Alex Perez and Julia Formiga, this past weekend.

And Alex Perez stopped in with those low leg kicks to UFC in a row. We've seen guys get stopped with low leg kicks. It's crazy. It's crazy how prominent that that technique has become. It has.

It has. And I think we're going to start seeing more of it. So people are going to have to start adjusting because there is. What was that? There's two stoppages within. There's a stoppage before Alex Perez recently that came up.

Yeah. Last week, last week of this stuff. Forget who who was fighting. But it was another stoppage because like this and that stoppage, the dude crushed both of his legs. I apologize for not remembering the names I'm over. I didn't call that fight either. Yeah, I called it.

I probably remember it, but the the low leg kick is just a gigantic factor.

When you were fighting Marlen Marise, I mean, it seemed like he was a bit of a step ahead of you in the first round, but you made some serious adjustments in between. It was like two different fights. It was like the first round was like, damn, this is not going well for Henry. And then going in the second round, like, damn is not going well. For Marlen, it was a totally different fight is like you figure the adjustment out, figured out what you need to do.

You stepped in further, you're closer and you start attacking.

Yeah, and I think a lot of that, too, Joe, would if if I was. I know how do I know when to fight and want to compete.

And when Marlon first I went in there with the sprained ankle.

This is why I had my like my my ankle to keep. And actually Marlins team had heard me scream on Tuesday night when all this happened. So they knew I was somewhat injured.

So I think their game plan well, when you just scream, I twisted my ankle between the U.S. match, like, you know, that has some cheap tape.

And then between the mats, when I stepped in, like my I rolled my ankle like, bad, bad.

I have pictures of it. It's like putting it back in black and blue, but I still want to fight. So, you know, so anyway, so, you know, I went in there, heard it would not, but I knew that that first round and you said you mentioned it too during the fire season. I think this might be a survival around four hundred. And it absolutely was. So I knew went to fight a war to compete.

But I also knew that Monori was throwing so much power. And I've gone I've gone against some of the best in the world. There's like there's no way you got to be able to maintain all that power for five rounds.

And I don't think this kid has any idea as a wrestler, because it's a recipe for how much pain a guy like me can endure. So he can say he was tired, he can say that know something happened. But in reality, it's a mixture of two things. He blew this one. And this guy this guy here, which is me, could take a lot of pot, could take a lot of pain. That was with Mike not too long ago and asked them as like I was like I was like, hey, Mike, this is Mike Tyson.

I'm like, would you how would you describe Muhammad Ali MMA? What was different between him and everybody else?

And he said and he thought about and he's like. Which was cool to hear, man, because I can I can put myself in and those shoes and he's like he's like, man, Muhammad Ali was a guy that I've never seen before because he could just endure so much pain like the decongest endure so much pain that it's almost like the average guy would for the average guy would get killed.

But all legis had a certain will to him that separated him from from everybody else. It was the fact that he was able to endure pain that you don't hear that too often.

It's true, though. You know, if you watch his fight with Ken Norton, you know, he fought most of the fight with a broken jaw. Yeah.

I mean, this is how you weigh two million, five pound your wings, man. You've got big heavyweights. I mean, George Foreman in his prime.

Joe Frazier. When when Joe Frazier was in his prime.

Same example, George Foreman, who was. Yeah. He had no idea how much pain Ali could endure and how much it meant Ali had going for him.

Right. Ali was so slick.

You know, when Ali, there's a famous video of Ali with his hands on the ropes and George is just swinging punches at him and Ali is using the ropes, he's holding onto the rope and using the ropes, and he's not even putting his hands up at all.

And the most murderous puncher up to that time since Sonny Liston in the history of the heavyweight division, you got like Joe Frazier was a power puncher.

Joe Lewis was a sniper. He was an excellent power puncher.

But George Foreman would lift people in the air.

Yeah, he would hit people like you ever see his first knockout with Joe Frazier? Yeah. He had knocked them on. Then he fought all the right after Frazier. Yeah.

When he fought Frazier, he literally lifted him in the air with a punch. That's how hard Joe Frazier would hit. And Ali. No, no. Hands up.

Just holding onto the ropes, doing this shit, sitting in front of him, leaning back, doing this shit crazy.

Yeah, but imagine how many of those punches, even though to get hit in the face, imagine how many of those punches George Foreman was thrown out of. And then Ali was just laughing and talking. Yeah, it's a it's a certain mind Powermat.

It's a mind that you cannot you just cannot replicate, man like that's got to be in you.

Right. Or you have to have developed it over time and have complete confidence in it. You know, there's I think you can build mental toughness.

I really I really do. I think. But I think you have to be very conscious about it. I think it has to be done over time. Some people build mental toughness because of their environment or because of how they grew up or some of the bad things they've faced in their life. And some people build mental toughness out of a decision. They make a decision to be mentally tough. And then they actually they cultivate that. They work on that.

I think it's a mixture of both. And this is why sometimes I respect more of like the upper middle class when they become champions, especially in a rough spot like wrestling or Eminem is because I feel like like minorities or people that have gone through adversity. It's like, man, we have an advantage because it's is through the nurture side of things. How you were raised. And I got I'm one of I'm one of seven kids. I was raised by a single mother and, you know, I was a younghusband.

So I was a kid that was picked on. You know, I was picked up. I don't know.

It's different when you're the smallest in an immigrant family. You know, it's like the you're the last one you lot. You're going to get beat up. Pretty much the majority of your child is through. You start getting to that age where you could kind of fight back.

So a lot of it, I guess, you know, through the through the nature and nurture, obviously, genetics, you're your mother and father, but also through the through the nature side of it, how you were raised. I mean, how tough are you like me as a kid growing up, like I remember as a family man, like how hot summer days have come around, like we didn't eat and we didn't eat. My going to school was a place for us to like at least for at least I could see my family.

They don't talk about that stuff so much, the little more private. But for me, was I did I get a chance to eat lunch and breakfast?

Well, that was a big problem with this covid shit where they shut schools down and a lot of kids are in that same position where that was their opportunity to eat. And some people were just I'm not aware of that, that that's where a lot of people got their food, was at school. Right.

Right. And that was one of those kids. So if there's any of those kids or any of those guys that are adults now say, hey, man, be happy for that, because I tell you what's made me has been adversity. Man is going is understanding that that grine, that grit man of being angry and things like that, if we're able to challenge that into something constructive. Yeah. Joe, I'm a living example, man. You know you are.

Look at that flag behind you. I represented that flag. You did. You know, and ironically, you know, my mom came to this country, you know, maybe not the most political, but she came to this country to live the American dream.

Her American dream was just to make sure her kids it's a timing thing, you know, because my grandparents came over here, too. But they came over here when it was it was easy. You just came over and you just signed some shit and you were in. Yeah. You know, and the. The early 1980s is, look, if that's how it was today, you wouldn't have the kind of illegal immigration you have today.

This country was founded on people coming over here because it was easy.

It was a better place to live. You have a better life for your family, but there was no hoops to jump through. My grandparents just arrived. They just came here and moved in. I mean, they didn't they didn't have to take any, like, serious tests or do any crazy shit. They just came in, you know, they didn't have to prove that they had some special skills.

Like now it's very difficult for people to come over here and to to get citizenship, though.

It is. And I do believe, even as America said, that there is a pathway to citizenship, because you're right, times times do change and you have to adjust to to a lot of whatever political power is going on right now.

I just happen to be fortunate to that. My mom did.

Yeah, your mom did. I said she crossed. I'm here now.

I think guys like you are amazing sources of inspiration for other people that are struggling. And this is crazy.

Just so I'm going to mention something to you. Like my mom, both my parents came here illegally. I'll just say you guys forgive.

Oh, don't tell Trump. But my mom was granted her citizenship. So when I won the Olympics, my mom was unable to attend the 2000 Olympics due to her due to her citizenship status.

So then three years later, after that, she was awarded her citizenship, but at the age of 20. So, you know, I stand on both fences. My like my dad, he was my, you know, my father to which I was raised by my mother. He committed crimes in and out. He was in and out of jail here in California. He was actually deported. So I was a five year old kid. My dad was deported, never came back to America.

So I understand both sides of my life. And I hate to say this, but it's true. It's my dad came here as a foreigner as as an illegal, and he decided to break the law man and rightfully so. And he should go back to his native country.

My mother came here, you know, illegally, you know, paid her fine, paid her taxes are well known that she was granted her citizenship in 2000, 2011. And so I've been able to speak on this on behalf of Congress and kind of share my story to the world now, because it's almost like I become neutral. You break the law, you go, man, you you obey the law at this certain amount of time and maybe you might be granted as an American.

Yeah. Yeah, it's it's a very frustrating thing for people who do want to have a better life for the family, they realize how difficult it is to come here. I fully understand illegal immigration. I fully understand wanting to keep out people that are criminals and people that are murderers and people that are in the drug trade. But if I was a person who is struggling to feed my family in South America or in Mexico or wherever, and I found out that I could sneak in and then I could do better.

I would sneak in, yeah, I would do it 100 percent. And everybody says they wouldn't. You're lying. Yeah, you're lying. If you found out there was a place across the border where you could make five times as much and you could send money back and all you had to do is grind this place where literally anybody can go from being completely impoverished to being on top of the world, being a millionaire.

This is the place, I think the best example. But I hate to use the example because he's he's he's brought a lot of people with his king.

Well, Don King is maybe not the best example because he was born in America, first of all, and he's a murderer. But twice, twice over, you know, he's an example of a different time. And, you know, you talk to guys like Mike Tyson, he'll tell you that guy played me right. You're right.

Yeah. You're probably screaming maybe down. But what I'm saying is he's been able to come out of, you know, obviously he was a murderer, but he was able to somewhat make it in the sport that he desired. Yeah. At that time, you know, obviously, I think we all know he's a crook.

But let's you know, what America's able to do doesn't matter what you've done in life, you really do get only a second or third or a fourth and a thousand opportunities.

He's from a different era. I feel like if the Internet was around, well, you know, who knows? Maybe he'd be president today.

Look at our president. This is what this is. This is why this is why like like Trump, Trump is the example of the American dream in many ways.

Yeah. The faulty version of it. But yeah, in many ways.

Yeah. And I think the other person that's probably not the version of the American dream, because his dad was rich and he gave him money like he started off, his dad gave him millions of dollars to start businesses.

Right. But I mean he turned that into billions too. He did. But he also went bankrupt a bunch times, too.

Yeah, you got me, Joe. I mean, it's it's tricky.

I mean, you can't deny the fact that the guy's been remarkably successful. Yeah. But like, the extenuating circumstances that led to that success is very different than your mother sneaking over here because she wanted to do better for a family.

You know, that's that's the raw version of the American dream. I mean, the American dream is really immigration, and that's really what it's like. I'm a version of the American Dream. I'm third generation American. My my grandparents came over here because they wanted a better life. Their parents wanted a better life. So they came over here from Italy and from Ireland.

Yeah, it's a trip. And I don't know when you think when you talk about things like that, you know, I think of a lot. We talk about the American dream. I know. You know, he's in my opinion, I feel like he's somewhat misunderstood in our member community or just in general manager or is is Ali Abdul.

Men do that came from Egypt, you know, came to America. I remember. I'll leave. I've known him for a minute since since 2004. You know, he was self FUBU like out. He was just hustling the whole time out of Colorado Springs. And, you know, now I mean he's got over one hundred and fifty fighters. I mean, he's got five champions in the UFC. I mean, this dude is when I think of the American dream, I really do think of somebody like like, oh, well, he's a very controversial guy.

He is. He is. But his clients love him.

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. You know, it's hard to hard to deny that his clients love. I mean, there's a lot of people that say a lot of wild shit about him. I don't know how much of it's true. Yeah. But the bottom line is you talk to guys, like, just engaging guys like yourself, you know, many fighters that have had come in here that are repped by him and they love the guy.

Yeah.

Could be thinking, Frankie, Frankie, all these years, Codi Verdoux. And he's been able to and I've been there and I've never seen this before, but he's kind of like the glue with all of us. I mean, I was eating lunch and dinner with with Marlon.

Were you really you had that long after this is like maybe. Four months after my fight. Oh, wow, I mean, I'm sure must have stung, but out of respect for him and I told that to all the MCCALMAN, it is good because I was picking on Frankie Edgar, too. But I like that you're next to you're going to bed with me now is like all these guys are going to want to fight me. But there's two against one fact he got he's like my brother.

He's like he's going to do that when I'm here. Man is like these guys respect as much as you do. And I'm just like, huh? And then we sat down. It was just like nothing ever happened.

Well, that's very cool that Marlon has that kind of character that he could sit down with you after that fight. That's very cool. Yeah. Marlon's an interesting guy, man.

He's he's one of those guys that, like, you wonder like, is he too big for that division? Like, how much is how much weight is that man cutting?

He's so fucking big to see him get down to 135. You've got shredded is like, what do you walk around like. He looks like he walks around about 160 something.

Yeah, he's big. And I think I think I personally think I'm gonna get her some people 145 pounds. I think so do. Yeah. It's that that risk versus reward. Like when do you move, when do you, you know, when do you go up, when do you stay down. Like how much you beating your body up. And then you got some guys who go down later in their career, you know, like Barbosa is a good example.

Barbosa and his last fight, I thought he got robbed. I thought he won that decision and he got down to 145.

That's not always the answer. I mean, look at me. I was at 125 pounds and could I still make it? Yeah, I could still make it.

But the fatigue that he'd bring to me, like the I think the psychology side of cooking, we like going going down is not always the answer.

And I started having my best success when I just decided, like, hey man, I'm just sick of cutting away and I'm getting ready to go up and, you know, Charmides at 105 pounds. And what you hear from the naysayers, just like a man, he's just you're too small, man. You're not ready for some power like that. I'm just like, no, I don't think so. I think there's an advantage of me for me to feel well if I feel well and I feel healthy with my speed, you know, I'm almost short, compact fighters.

I trust me, I don't need that much. As long as I land, I'm going to hurt you, man. You can you can be ten pounds heavier than me. Doesn't matter.

So there's been a lot of guys who've moved up and it's been the answer. Masvidal.

Yeah, Majadele. Kalven, yeah. Even Kelvyn has to forgotten.

I still think if I was I mean just someone gets Kelvin, Xernona, Kelvin, we got to do this the right way. There's a lot of guys way bigger than you that make 170. I think at 170 he could be a world champion.

I really do. Yeah.

He's he's a scary man when he's in shape and and motivated, but he just gets big.

Yeah. I think he meant he loves loves he loves Mary J. That too. He loves that too. Yeah. I think that's the big that. I think that's what Calvin is.

He's one of my best friends of like we become super, super close. And he's he's a very gifted, very gifted human being. And he's when you see him, looks are deceiving. No, he doesn't have enough, you know, muscle definition. But man, to do that ludic ability, what he needs to counter punch.

Yeah.

It's like it's it's ridiculous.

Go on. The best straight left fans in the business, the one they drop. Bisping wins like Jesus. It's a piston man.

Yeah. But I also feel like and I see the nose like I always think, OK, Calvin can make 170. I agree with you Joe, but what about that happiness portion? You know what I'm saying? Will he be happy throughout that process and be happy when he lies in bed with that big ass gold belt?

You know, maybe that's where maybe I got a few of those added gold that a gold medal, the youngest guy to ever win a gold medal in the Olympics for wrestling.

Yes, in twenty eight. That's amazing. In 2016, Kyle Snyder, who if he does decide to make a transition to the U.S., a guy like George Jones would be in trouble. You think? Yeah. Yeah. That dude is just just the reason why to be Demitrius. You know, obviously I Demetrius and it was Joe I would it be man, I'll bring this up right now. I wouldn't be mad if the judges were to give it to Demetrius.

You know what? Because it was a hell of a fight and I would have been like five and I almost had them.

But, you know, the judges, I conveyed enough to the judges to give it to me. And the reason why I was able to beat him was because I nullified a lot of his time with my wrestling, my inside. It's my take downs. So I completely dismantled this dude, you know what I mean? I took him out of his rhythm when he was used to kind of catching people and then being able to take people down. So I feel like if a guy like Kyle Snider gets in the game and he's able to kind of go through the process that I've gone through, that's the only guy that I could see being somebody like John.

How old is he now? He's young, he's lazy. He's twenty four, about to be twenty five.

Interesting. And does he have any desire to fight?

He's mentioned it. He's mentioned it, but he does not have any experience in stand up at all. And that's the biggest thing. And so he would a guy like that, you would have to kind of you would have to groom them properly. Like you don't want to stick a guy like that. Straight, erm, no, put them into boxing for at least a couple of years, haven't you, because this is what I did. I boxed for three years, I did amateur boxing.

I compete. I mean, I was I didn't do any jujitsu, none of that because I was in love with the sport of boxing. My original goal and this is crazy.

This is this is how crazy I think I was.

I was trying to make the Olympic team right after 2008. Boxing for boxing. Yeah.

And the reason why that idea came up, because Deontay Wilder did it with then I think it was four years he was able to have it.

Was it a year and a half from boxing wins a bronze medal in Olympics? Crazy, right? Like that. You can do it. Give me a few years. That's when he told me that I'm like, that is one of the craziest stories I've ever heard in my life. Ridiculous. I mean, but also extremely motivated because he had a very sick daughter and he realized that he couldn't play basketball. He wasn't going to school, couldn't play for it, was trying to think of ways to make money.

He was driving a truck, I believe it was for Budweiser.

He was driving, she was delivering delivering things. And he just decided I'm going to get into boxing and just had unbelievable God given talent and just ferocious punching. Power is punching. Power is like nothing I've ever seen before. I mean, you look at Deontay Wilder's knockout stage, they don't even make sense. He sends people flying across the the ring. And when he fought Tyson Fury, the first fight, when he dropped him and knocked him down twice, Healthway, 209 pounds.

Crazy, 291 or nine. That's a heavyweight. Yes, crazy.

And you know, he's fighting Tyson Fury was an enormous heavyweight and like, he hates guys, man, like nobody else. What Tyson had over him, though, that he showed on the tactical side of it in the second fight was his boxing. His his understanding of the game is so complex, it's so much different, whereas Deontae has just this ferocious power and he figures out how to put it on you.

But when you can knock out a guy like Luis Ortiz with a fucking right hand of the forehead, he look a good fight or he's in a fucking elite boxer. I mean, what he blat, he hit him on the forehead and autisms, just his legs went out and you see him on what the fuck just happened for it? He punches that hard. Deontae just got crazy crazy power.

But the fact remains he did it after a year and a half and he won a bronze medal in the Olympics, which is just spectacular.

Yeah, that's nuts man. So that's where the original goal came from. But I just saw like it was it just wasn't realistic for him at that time. Like, especially at my weight class, like these dudes have been doing it since there are four years old. There's a different speed happened. And I was sparring with the ladies. Guys are like, damn, this is like it's nuts, man. It's nuts when you're at the lower weight because now you're dealing with not just and have you where you can someone get away with this because if you might be far more athletic.

Right. But at the lower weight classes, I mean, there is speed. You got the you know, you got you got the news from from Philadelphia, from California, like all these Mexicans, blacks, whites that are just like, hey, man, they've been doing it forever. This is a different sport, man. And I've been humbled before.

I feel like boxing in particular is one of those sports. It's very difficult to learn properly as you get older. There's something about muscle memory and you're your body being ingrained like developed to move a certain way and to strike a certain way and to be able to react on openings like instinctually. It's almost like once you hit like 25, 26 years old and you start then like, oh, it's real hard to ever get to an elite level.

Yeah. Your body starts to change. And that happened to me and it's crazy and it's ironic, just like even my USC debut, like think about this, like I did a make weight and I'll never forget it.

I was with my brothers actually back here to my with my brother Lonzo. And I remember, you know, he I didn't make it. I couldn't make the team and I was just doing too much. You talking about by the time you get twenty five like you hit the nail on the head because that's when I first started struggling to make weight and I did it make wood at that time.

And I remember I was just going to get a fly and just disappear and never frequency and never look back then retire.

Yeah. This is crazy Joe. This is crazy. And my brothers, my my brother was, you know, thank God for my brother Lonzo. And he's like, you need to be a man and you got to go and talk to Shaun Shelby and let him tell him thank you and let him know that you're a retired man now was man who took everything in my heart because I was so embarrassed. So this was this is when TJ Foda when he was supposed to fight Birao, I think the second time.

And and this was when he just sort of sold on that was supposed to be on that card now supposed to fight. Scott Jorgensen and I went down there, didn't make the way. And I'll never forget how dehydrated I was. I have tears to cry, also dehydrated. And I went up to Tashan shows like Sean. Thank you, man. But I'm just I no longer want to do this sport. Man Did you back out of that fight?

I kept my body just wasn't reacting and like, I wasn't doing well, like my live. I remember cutting. Cutting was probably one of my worst workouts ever was. I had a cold limp, like I started vomiting like all the flu that I had in my body. Just stupid. I was doing sixteen pounds, Joe. I was doing sixteen pounds like the day of the day, pretty much the day of avoidance, like something stupid. And the only reason why I was doing something like that was because I felt when you come from the sport of wrestling, like to me making weight and doing everything that the fighters were doing, I was like, man, these things are spoiled.

These dudes get twenty for this is get close to about thirty hours before the fight.

I says, man, that's that's a lot of recovery time. So this is, this is this is how stupid this is the way I saw it. And again, the age caught up to me. I would do the six, I will do the sixteen pounds. I would murder my son, really hurt myself, make the way and then ballooned back up. But this came, there came a point by time I turned 25, 26 that my body just started to shut down on me and I just wasn't doing it right.

And that finally kicked me in the ass.

So imagine that Zusi debut and I told you about it. I'm done. I never fight it. But let me ask you this.

So what was your thought process that because of the fact that these M.A guys get more time to recover, it's not like they have to win the day of the wrestling match. They're weighing in the day before the fight. In the daytime, they don't have to fight and then eventually became in the morning. Yeah, right. So you have even more time. And then they didn't have to fight until the next day at night.

So you were like, I'm going to be heavier. I want to come in bigger with a bigger advantage. The idea, yeah, I think so, and now looking looking at it now is just it's it's something that's like your. It's better to feel good than to feel bigger, being bigger is Molin was bigger than me.

Yeah, you know, a lot of it is a me, but it didn't. Dominic was bigger than Dominic to even T.J..

Even T.J. when we did make flyways, somehow I was 146. Imagine that I made twenty 125 pounds on 24 pounds.

T.J. made the weight right. Did he make the way? He made the weight.

And he was he was 24 too. I ballooned up to one hundred and forty six pounds, T.J. ballooned up to one hundred and fifty pounds.

Dude, he looked worse, cutting weight. He looked worse, showing up for the winds than I've ever seen anybody since Travis Luder when Travis Luder miswired against Anderson Silva, Travis Luder, Mizue way to get centered itself. I'll never forget this because I saw him when he missed the weight and then I saw him. I was backstage while he was trying to continue to cut because they gave him time to make weight and he couldn't lift his legs up to walk to the scale.

He was shuffling like shuffling towards the scale. His lips were all cracked. They're all sucked in. His face was sucked in. He was he was literally on death's door like you could see it. He was on he was if that guy was, like, released from a prison, like an overseas prison, I'm like, oh, my God, they were torturing him there. He was about to die. I never seen a guy look so bad.

He looked so fucking bad.

And people forgot about Travis Luder. Travis Luder was a beast man. He was he had some of the best jujitsu that anybody had ever seen in the run up to that point, everybody finally submitted. He was so fucking good. But he for whatever reason, when he had that big fight with Anderson Silva, he just couldn't keep it together. And I believe he had Anderson Silva down at one point in time in that fight to win. Anderson Silva caught him in a triangle and elbowed him off of his back.

And that's how I believe that's how the fight got stop.

But Travis was the worst I've ever seen, like for someone just about to make someone struggling to make weight.

Yeah, but even you think about guys like that, guys that have could have potentially become a world champion, you know? I mean, so what happens when somebody loses, man? What are the stages, the emotions when somebody loses? You know, I'm saying it's like there's a recovery process of when people lose.

And, you know, I hate to say this, but I'll bring up I'll bring up memories again, you know, because I feel like I gave the blueprint. If you watch me five more than you watch Aldo fight him, it's these guys.

When they lose, they go through a certain psychology thing and you can see him as a fighter. Every time I do fight, I always look at the demeanor. I've always I always pay attention to their demeanor from the first round to the second to the third eye as far as it goes. And I've noticed that Mollas demeanor was was changing. I noticed that in my face, when people's demeanor changes like that's to me that's that's a breaking point that the mine has made.

So I was able to see that with Mallen. Then after that, what did you see?

You saw that he's slowing down.

I saw I saw he was slowing down his jaw. His face starts to slouch, his shoulders start to drop.

And then and then that's when I you really can't see in the middle. But then that's when I started talking to the guy about you ready. Let's go. Bring it. Give it to me. You know, this is during the fight.

So you're talking back. No, he wasn't. He wasn't. And that's another reason because they're so tired, man.

They don't they just don't have any energy, immigrant people like that.

But what I'm trying to get to is guys that lose if you don't recover from your defeat, from your loss, if you don't get therapy, if you don't understand the reasons why you lost man, you're screwed. Therapy. Therapy.

Have you gotten that.

Yeah. Yeah. Like there. But but it's more for me was more like a realization the first time a lot of Demetrius Johnson and getting knocked out in two minutes and thirty six seconds man that's like to me the worst thing that could happen to a fighter and the worst scenario that something can happen to somebody and get stop is getting need to the body. You're conscious Joe, you're conscious and is need you from left to right and then your eyes are open and you've had enough and then you see Big Joe McCarthy waving his hands and you're knowing that he's making the right call, but you're still conscious.

You still want to go, but you can't. Right.

Your body shut off the front of 20000 people. You know, a good covid today. I mean, it's it's miserable and it's terrible. But it's a certain therapy is a certain acceptance that you got to go through in order for you to come out of that.

So what did you do afterwards?

I let go of coaches, my let go of coaches. I started traveling the world. I mean, I went to Asia. I went to what you do in Asia. I went out to Singapore. I went to evolve. I spent about a month out there just to train, just to train, just to go find like the best minds of of mixed martial arts and just have basis to win out to, you know, to Holland.

For a month, I would go out to Brazil and just what are you doing home and Holland I. I trained out with I trained with the polymath. He's he's he's Andy Sauers coach. Oh, wow. Yes, I was with them and just training with them and just just humbling yourself, I guess. I guess I guess I could say. And obviously throughout this whole time, it's like, man, I was on a quest because I still had Demetrius Johnson like I was going to retire from the sport without without me giving him a fair shake.

So I knew that I had something to do, not just with the body of what the mind is almost like. You got to come out of this man like he like almost like you can call it a mistake or whatnot. But the reality is, is you lost men. There's holes in your games.

So I always tell people like, don't face it. I'm sorry, I don't fake it till you make it out like that. You have to face the shit once you face it. This is when you start to create man freakin overflown success.

Did you know when you fought him? And first of all, you fought the best version of Demetrius Johnson ever. The guy to this day, I think is the best example of a mixed martial arts I've ever seen.

Oh, yeah. I think Demetrius in his prime, he was so fuckin good man.

He was so fast and he was so technical and he made such good decisions. His footwork is movement like everything was so precise. Did you did you say, OK, I see the gap, I see these holes and I know where he hit me. I know where there was mistakes made. I got to tighten those up. How do I do that? Yeah.

Dumitru, it was so good everywhere, even in the Russell. And I can even tell you as an Olympic athlete, even in a wrestling, his timing was really good. So I don't even think it was so much Demetrius Johnson like obviously was a distance game. But it comes down to like such when you farago at that move down to such the minor details, man. And I think the minor detail for me was was was composure. And I remember right before I fought the dude, I noticed I like my corner, my team, that they were extremely nervous, like my team there.

Do you imagine if I had somebody like the Beaches Johnson and your coach does not have your faith in you. And I'm like, well, I'm like, shit, but are you kidding me?

Well, he was a ghost back then. Demetrius was a ghost. I mean, he wasn't there for you. You would be swinging at er he was just off to the side then he was Ninu in the body and punching you in the face and kicking your leg on the way out. And we should even say in the second fight, the fight that you won, he got you with that low calf kicking your leg went numb, you know, hit the peroneal nerve, which numbs like all the nerves to your feet.

So it sleeps. And then when you try to lay your foot down, like if your foot still Weixel. So I even sprained it in the first round. But this is the. Yeah, but this is the main part that I had you it was a survivor run, as you say. I went back to the corner and I thought to myself, this is this is this is this is all crazy. Um, I was like I just thought to myself, man, how crazy is this going to be when I beat this dude?

Like I survived that first. Schrier says, man, this is going to make my story whatever I desired in my life that much better because I went through adversity with this fucking dude again.

Yeah, but just to get back to that. Yeah, yeah. That's what I'm saying. That's a champion's mind. And even before so I'm getting ready to walk out. I'm getting ready to fight Demetrius Johnson. And is my team like there are still kind of like, you know, grabbing their fingers. You know, I'm pacing back and forth. And about a few hours before we went out to the arena, I talked to my team and I sat them here.

And I've been like and I said my whole team down just like almost like a dad. And I'm like, Listen, man, I says, I need you guys to trust me and have faith in me. The key plan to be in this thing, like, I know this is the greatest of all time, but I know what I've done in wrestling. I can replicate that. What I've done in mixed martial arts. I don't think I'm going to ask from you guys is for you guys to be composed, for you guys to be composed.

Man, don't don't over yell stay calm. Like whatever happens in a fight. Man, I just need you guys to bear with me and have faith in me because I'm going to coach your coaches.

Yeah. In some way. But in it's crazy to say that. So then right when I'm getting ready, check this out just around when I'm getting ready to walk out, you know, right before I walk out first gonna walk out and then Demetrius and I still noticed my coach are still nervous. And I looked at him, I said, hey guys, remember composure, man, composure like I was so ready for this to. So then I go in there, I get kicked in the first thirty seconds to my legs, starts to wobble and so forth, you know, was a survival round.

I allow him to win whatever. I think he won. I think he won the first one the second. He won the third. And then, and then I believe I won the fourth and I won the fifth.

And then after this whole thing, check this out, Joe. Dimitra Johnson with an aerial juani and then Aryo Hawari associate to me. Just one last question. He was I would one thing that surprised you about Henry and Demetrius Johnson so well, and you used to be fast. I knew he was strong. But there's one thing that really disappointed with Henry.

It was the fact that he was so relaxed, you know, so it's these tactical things and everybody that you fight is completely different. You know, you can have a certain word that you can put up here, but I knew that being composed and relax and not overreact, Demetrius Johnson, that that would win me the fight for this. Fine. There's a lot more to it. It was me being a knowing what to fight, no one to compete.

It's me being a little theatrical, like bump in my face, like conveying the judges, those little things that you learn as as a veteran of competition that you can even convey the judges. So there's even acting going on. You know, I'm telling you guys all my secrets here, but in reality, there is. And that's I'm just a winner. I just don't think I just know what to do is not a win.

How are you going to step away from this? Come on, Henry. How are you going to go beat up Maadi?

I'm I'm torn up. Much like I said in the beginning, man, I feel both ways. And one, I'm happy when a fighter gets out on top of the game like you like. One of my favorite boxing stories of all time is Marvin Hagler. You know why? Because he fought Sugar Ray Leonard. I think he got robbed to this day. I think he won the decision. They gave it to Sugar Ray and then he backed away.

Let's say you got here, you smoke.

And so now you light it up to kill the demons in the world. This Native American lady gave me this.

She came in to talk to us about I got in this long kick of reading about Native American history. Yeah, well, they actually a lot of them refer to themselves as American Indians.

But and then this lady came in and educated me on a lot of issues and brought me some sage to clear out all the bad spirits.

Yeah, no, I, I believe in a lot. I believe in a lot of these rituals when I'm actually not too long ago I was actually with with Uncle Mike.

Yeah. He told me that with Mike Tyson and get rid of demons right now.

Demons don't start shaking back there now. We'll be all right Jamie.

No demon. You never know. Yeah, but I was able to because, you know, as you know, Mike, Mike has always talked about the toll, you know. Yes. And I believe you've done the toll.

Yeah. What the tode is what you're referring to is five methoxy dimethyltryptamine that's excreted by the toad's skin. They they take this type of toad. I forget the name of the toad, but they get it excited and excrete this stuff from its skin onto glass. And then they leave that glass out in the sun and it dries. That excretion dries and then you scrape it up with a razor blade and then you smoke that stuff or you could just get a synthetic version of it.

Colorado River Toad. That's one of the Sonoran Desert toads. Sonoran.

Yeah.

And you can find the center of the universe through the excretions of the stones, but it's.

So it's a trip.

So anyway, anything before this before you did this, have you had any experiences with psychedelics?

Yeah, I've done like I've you know, I've done mushrooms and obviously I smoke, which I don't know where all the weed Mary Jane is, but you probably want some.

Come on. You're retired. Yeah, why not? Come on, Jeff Novitzky. Novitsky actually wanted everybody to be able to. He's the one of the first guys who say it's nonsense. It's not a performance enhancer.

Although with Nick Diaz, I think it might be. Yeah, I think there's a might actually be a performance enhancing. I really think so, man. When he fought GOMI, they said he had to have gotten hot. He had so much weed in his system when they tested him that he had to have gotten high right before the fight.

Yeah, like that of Josipa Puff Pass or. Of course. So I'm going to share my story with you. And I want you to share yours with me. OK? Type of life is this? Well, that's tobacco on the outside, so it's a blunt, you know, and then inside it's the weed.

I get this from speed. We shout out to my man, Gino. Genoise. Check this out. You imagine you imagine doing the with somebody like Mike, I get high with Mike and I got nervous just when I'm nervous when I meet him.

He was one of my heroes when I was a kid. Mike Tyson was the fucking man.

I mean, in a way that it's hard for people to convey today to understand what a cultural figure Mike Tyson was in like nineteen eighty six. It's hard to convey. You're not going to no one's going to understand. Youngest ever heavyweight champion, you know, knocks out Trevor Berbick when he's 20 years old. He was the guy that beat. All right.

Trevor Berbee beat Ali late in his career when he was a real sad.

It was a real sad fight. It was real sad fight.

But it's touchin. Remember when all he won in the ring and gave gave Mike a little pep talk?

Yeah. You know, and then Mike and then Mike went out and knocked at the door. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Muhammad Ali is like, fuck this dude from here. Yes.

The idea was to get back to that jail. So, yeah. You know, so, you know, I've been I've actually been shadowing Mike for, like, Mike Tyson for like the last. I'm good friends with with his manager, Rob. Rob Hickman. Mm hmm. And just the stuff that they're doing at Tyson Ranchman is pretty cool. Yeah, it's really cool, right. They're bringing medicine to the world. So, Mike, I've been on his podcast.

He's always talked about the told like, you know, so I became good friends with AKAM, Uncle Mike, because he's just, you know, he scares me a lot. Every time you see these, you know, he'll cooperate of the whole school, me at the same time. So he always talked about the tone. I'm just like, well, let's let's do it then. Mike, the Stewart, Uncle Mike. So he's like, why did he show you?

I'm like, Yeah, you've been talking about it for a minute. So, you know, so we go out, we go on this, you know, they have this whole rule, Neisseria what rituals or whatnot. And we go out to 21, which is an island off the off the Caribbean. We have a I forget what they're called the person that. A shaman. Yeah, shaman. I'm sorry. And he's out there and, you know, Mike goes first.

So, Mike, I imagine this is Mike Tyson doesn't you know, Mike Tyson's, Mike Tyson, he's he's doing and he's he's going he's going a bit crazy, man, because a lot of what that what that does is it brings out a lot of your as you say, you know, you open the season, a lot of your demons, a lot of things that you've probably been holding on to for a minute. Mm hmm.

So I'm seeing I'm seeing Mike over here twist and turn and kind of, you know, talk about a lot of I don't want to share that stuff, but, you know, talk about a lot of it's Passman at me, as you said, is is an idol is a legend.

You know, that's the way I look at my two. I'm over here and I'm just I'm almost like tripping now, but at the same time and treat, you know, because so then I go up and I do it.

And the man who took me to especially out of retirement here, man, like I would I was kind of somewhat wanted answers. I was hoping that it would give me OK. And this was like the path or not. And it took me it took me to like it took me to my mom's, like, your mom's like first love, you know? And it showed me like in a stroller, almost like in a movie, you know, how I was born, how my mom had me, how how by the time I was eight years old, like I had my sister.

So it was no longer the youngest. How my mom kind of like, you know, and in all fairness, kind of somewhat pushed to the side, leaving home at the age of 17 and substituting my mom's love for self-fulfilment, wrestling, mixed martial arts. And they brought me back to a little kid when I was maybe four or five when I would cry to my mom because I remember as a kid, we would go we would go from L.A. to New Mexico, like in greyhounds and no stopping at McDonald's and things like that.

But to me, you know, as a kid, you don't know you're poor. But what that did is that brought me back to the person that created man, that brought me back to my mom's love man. So, like it like resurrected something in me. And I was crying. I was asking for forgiveness. All speak in a spasm opportunity like, mom, forgive me. Wow.

It was something it was something scary in some ways because it does it takes you out of your your body like it's it's almost like you're in judgment day and you're the one that's being convicted and you're the judge too. And it's telling you but is giving you this certain piece. It's like you're so dead.

That's you're alive. Oh, it's a Joe.

I don't know what it was you had, but this is what I can share, what I can experience. Like, it was it was cool because I was able to do with special people. I did it with Calvin like we all did. It was it was already formal plan. And my brother back there, my mentor, probably pissed at me because they look out for me a lot. But, man, it was something that, you know, as an adult, you know, you have the right to to make these decisions and and share if it's good.

And I feel like the told was probably one of the best things that's that's happened to me like honesty, because it makes you realize and reflect on what truly matters.

I think there's a fear of it just because it's illegal. I really think that's a and it should be respected. It's very dangerous in that sense that it could not not that it could do harm to you physically.

If it's the real deal, it's not going to do harm to you physically. Your body has it in your body, knows what to do with it. It's one of the reasons why it's such a quick trip. Your body knows how to bring that stuff back to baseline very quickly. That's why it's only like a fifteen minute trip.

Yeah, but it's not it's not bad for you all the time. I think it's like it's a really powerful thing that it's got to be respected. It could fuck you up if you're not ready, if you have some distorted versions of the world that you're operating under from me.

One of the things that made me feel like right away, one of the first things was realizing how much of like the way I talk about things is like calculated. I was like I was trying to figure out like. I would say things in a way that I wanted people to say, oh, he phrased that cool, like I would try hard to impress people with the way I was saying things. And I was realizing that as I was trying to describe the trip after it was over, I was like, that's interesting.

Like so that probably leads to a disconnect between me and someone is listening because it's not 100 percent what's going on in my head.

It's at least a little bit showmanship and bullshit.

And it made me realize that in that moment, like, I think it probably made me a better everything, probably made me a better comedian and probably maybe better podcast has always been a minute.

When did you do this for the first time?

The first time I did it was early 2000s. So I guess we're looking at like twenty two ish somewhere around then.

Yeah. That was like the first time I did it. Last time I did it was about two years ago, but the last time I did it I did the other kind.

That and dimethyl actually maybe a little less than two years ago, a little less than two years ago.

It was an dimethyltryptamine which is that's the different version. That's the version of it. That's in ayahuasca. That's the version of it. There's a bunch of different spinoffs and different ways that people try to to get that stuff in their system. But smoking it is the quickest smoking. It gets you three. You vaporize it and it gets you right to the center of the universe immediately.

And all those things, you know, I think then one of the cool things about life, like what you're talking about in your journey, your journey as a as a man, your journey as a champion, your journey to become better and to to show what you're capable of.

This all of this is because no one gets it right. You don't just get it right, like you fuck it up and you try to do better and you you fail and then you figure out what went wrong and you you just constantly analyze whatever you're doing and obsess on it.

And you can become better at that thing. And through that you can understand that you could be better at anything.

And I think when you any kind of psychedelic where you have an opportunity to look at yourself, just really look at yourself accurately.

You're not going to like it, but it's going to give you great benefit because it's going to give you you're going to be able to see yourself honestly and see whatever those does. Don't get mad that you have all these flaws.

Just fix them. Just fix them to your best to fix them. And you're not going to get it right because Eagles' still going to come creeping back in your life and ego's still going to hold on to your legs and drag you down while are trying to run. You know what it is goes like hanging on your ankles. Are you trying to run like come on, stay the same, but you can't stay the same and get better.

The way you get better is to relax and to, to realize that you know all, all your fuck ups, all the fails. That's not you. Just because you lost a match doesn't mean you're a loser. He just lost. Well, you should be happy that you got this opportunity to feel terrible because through that operating opportunity to feel terrible, that's where all the growth comes from. If you can survive it, some people can't survive it. Right?

You all know we all know those guys that were really good in the gym and they had like one or two matches or one or two fights and they just couldn't handle the pressure for whatever reason. They couldn't handle the things that went wrong and they just didn't want to do it anymore. But they could have been like a world leader. You know, everyone knows that guy.

Yeah, right. And what is wrong with that guy? Well, that guy's got one aspect of your two part thing that you were talking about. Heart in ability. Right? He's got one aspect. He's got the ability. But this this he's got a missing part. And he doesn't want to look at it because if you wanted to look at it, he would concentrate entirely on that and he would get better at that. But it's hard. Yeah, it's hard to look at yourself psychedelics.

Let you look at yourself like, hey, stupid.

Look, you remember the last time I did DMT, there was a string of jokers like Jester's with the bells on dancing in front of me.

Going like this fucked you just openly mocking me.

I was like, Oh, that must be what I need.

I must need that much. That's good. That's good to see. Yeah.

It's, it's definitely, definitely an ego check. It dissolves it man. Like, like with Mike like he loves to do and yeah. He's you know, he owes it to the, to the told you know what I'm saying. Like that said that he, he said that's a big reason why he's changed his life. You know, Mike wasn't doing so well until, until he tried this and he you know, he talks about all the time on his podcast.

So it gives you an opportunity to shift.

It's still drug addicts. I mean, drug addicts are doing all kinds of crazy what they try to tow.

And they completely just left everything that they left like almost like a dead man walking to AA. He's alive again.

He's here with this. Yeah. I think a lot of diseases of addiction are diseases of of despair, right. Type disease of the mind and wanting to squash those demons and drown them out.

The anxiety, the fear, the depression, the you know, just the terrible feelings you have about who you are.

You know, maybe you're homeless, maybe your your life's fallen apart, but you're alive right now and you can't handle it. You can't handle where you're at. You can't handle who you are. You can't handle what people have done to you.

So you just throw drugs in there, throw drugs in there and something like DMT or, you know, there's a bunch of different sort of psychedelics that can do it for a lot of people.

It's ibogaine. Ibogaine is a big one for drug addicts. People have real issues with opiates.

Ibogaine knocks it out of the park with those people. It's it cures a giant.

No, see what is see if you can Google the percentage of people who are cured of addictions by ibogaine.

Ibogaine is it comes from the. I've never done this. With all due respect and full disclosure, it was this from the laboratory, I believe it's from Africa. And there's something about this drug that just kills all ideas that you have of addiction and rewires your brain.

And it's insanely effective and but ruthless.

And it's like a twenty four hour experience says, oh my God, look at this.

One doctor reported 70 to 80 percent success rate with effective aftercare. He added that when people recovering from meth addiction took ibogaine but returned to the same environment where they'd originally abused meth, there was a 90 percent relapse rate.

That's not good. So that's terrible.

So you have to do it and then get out.

Or maybe it's meth, maybe meth, just like super hard to kick was the hardest one to kick. Yeah, I've never fucked this. No. Any problem that we're talking about? This one season we were both say this like there's no meth advocates. Like people are telling you you should take we'd like bro, we will calm you down. We'll make you more friendly. There's weed evangelist. It's not like, you know, I'm saying, you know, Zahed that comes up and she's like, I'm going to start those treatment centers.

Yes. Yes. Don't save time.

Don't spoil it. Yeah, you did a good job. Yeah, that didn't give away too much enough, but goddamn, it's there's something about having any sort of a psychedelic experience and it just makes you realize how badly you're fucking up.

And for some people, that's enough. Like, the whole reason why they would do a psychedelic if they were addicted also is because they realized they were fucking up and they're looking for some way to change.

You know, those good feelings that you have men like when when you beat Dominic Cruz and you raise your hands at the end of that fight and you knew it was going to be over, you knew it was going to be over, you knew you're you're going to go down in history no matter what, even if you step away right now. I know you say the greatest, but I'm just in the fairness of experts in combat, you will come back one of the greatest of all time for sure.

Olympic gold medalist to division world champion.

That's that's unheard of. And you're doing it all in a super technical division, both of them.

Twenty five and thirty five super technical divisions. Everybody's a wizard. And we saw that this weekend. Matt Holy shit. What a weekend for the bantamweight division, right?

Yeah, it's exciting, man. There's a lot of there's a lot of good people out there. The resurrection.

Two of you dude, Cody looks so good. He didn't just look so good. He looks so fucking fast, so fast and technical. I mean, it was super impressive, but so was Alcmene Sterling.

Yeah. al-Ajmi.

Choking out saying, hey, can my dad being able to do it in under two minutes. That's crazy. Yeah, that is one that's crazy. And especially the guy who he be and how he beat Dusan Hagan. He said Hagans a beast. He's he's the real deal man. That was the fight that I was thinking on.

The car was going to be the most difficult to call. Yeah. I was like, who's going to win that one?

I don't know, because they're both so good. And Hagans surging. But Algeo shot it all down, man, the way he did it just so intense. Right. Like he had hits on new level, you know? You know, sometimes a fighter will just hit a new level. Now, when you think about him, it's probably hard for you because that's that's your division.

Yeah. But again, his wrestling, I bring people down, like even through their mentality. I study the fighters. I'm going to study I studied their mental game, too, and how they do interviews. And I'll give you two examples.

And I feel like I feel like Al Mean Sterling is almost the same thing as as Demetrius Johnson. Just in the concept of my wrestling, just because of my wrestling, I feel extremely confident with my hands. And I know he can't take me down. I know he won't take me down. So I know there's a game pack set in place where I can be a little more offensive with somebody like Iljimae Sterling. And also, let's talk to let's talk about Sean.

Miley, I'm just I just want to break this down. Even somebody like him, listen to his interviews and you study these guys and you see what their mindset is and where their holes are going to be.

It's like they had asked, I mean, who do you want to ask Sean O'Malley? We want to fight next. And he's like, you know, I just want to fight, you know, I just want to fight the best strikers like he never mentioned about. I'll take anybody out. I'll take anybody in the top ten or fifteen or whatever, because in my opinion, has it really beat somebody that's like, OK, man, you're the real deal, even though he did be Wilen and he was a contender.

But it's been a long time.

And I hear a young kid that's learning the sport while we're watching him on the UFC. That's what's crazy about him. I mean, you what you go back to Dana White's contender show, and he was looser, wilder, you know, fun to watch, but not nearly as sharp right now.

He's he's on a completely different level, knocking on Wineman like that fake in the uppercut and then just following over the top of the straight right hand and catching him slipping. I mean, that was that was fantastic.

But that's that's the point that I'm trying to get to, is it's a striking thing for him right now.

What I'm saying, like, there is a whole nother aspect, and that's called wrestling and jujitsu that I've heard. He's he has developed pretty good jujitsu. But there's that other art that I want to see. When you really get tested, you take it into deep water, then I'll see you real colors. Then I'll be like, OK, man, you are ready to take on anybody in the tough.

I'ma give you a good example that Yaya Rodriguez, when he fought Frankie Edgar, that was a good example, that Frankie Edgar was just that wrestling was too strong, that ground and pound was too strong.

He couldn't keep MOFCOM. He just couldn't do anything about it.

And that was a great example that because here was this super flash kicker. I mean, yeah, to me has some of the best kicks I've ever seen inside the wild, flashy shit. Remember when he threw that he threw against BJ, hit him with a 360 roundhouse, kicked the face.

Remember that, bro? That's how it was that crazy shit to pull off in a fight. Three sixty roundhouse kicked him in the face.

Yeah, it was a beast. And everybody was like, really thinking, you know, he's on a short path to the title, but the.

Big hole was that wrestling, that was it was exposed by how elite Frankie is and how nasty Frankie's ground and pound is.

It was a major beat down, you know, and that's one of those fights where you watch a guy and you go, this guy, it's all about styles because it's all about, you know, whether he'll give you if he found someone that played his game like, oh, shit, he's good at that game.

But what Frankie did is just completely impose his game, just drag them down and beat him up.

And then we don't know what would happen with O'Malley when it comes to that. But I know who he is as a person and he's working. He's working on everything that kid is.

He's focused as fuck. He keeps getting better and better and better, like in a trippy way, like when you saw him come back after two years off, you know, two years dealing with a bunch of bullshit. I forget what he was suspended for. I don't remember what it was. Was it was it was it marijuana? That doesn't make sense. Tainted supplements or something in protein or something.

Yeah.

Anyway, I'm interested. Yeah. I mean it is and it's and it's making the Benowa division with guys like that. It's making it exciting. Oh it's so exciting. First of all we didn't even talk it. Well you got a pure yawn versus Jose Aldo for your title does still feel like yours.

I let it go. I let it go honestly. Honestly I let it go. But they can they can kill it. Yeah. That's how I feel. I'm so happy. I'm so satisfied. Happy. You look happy. The point is like what? A division.

Unless unless you cross me with something here. I don't know what you know.

It's all good bro. It's all good. I'm really excited about that.

Jose Aldo Puerta Jan five. But it's fascinating to me that they decided to give the fight to Aldo even though Morales won. The decision has a really interesting choice, isn't it, because although I agree with the decision I think ah excuse me, I agree with Aldo, I think also won that fight.

I think it was a really close fight, but I thought Aldo won the fight. But it was close. It was really close. But the fact that the judges gave it to Marlon and then the UFC is like, nah player, OK, we're going to have Aldo fight it.

And part of it is because all those obviously a huge draw and one of the greatest of all time, particularly greatest featherweights of all time.

Remember, I'm I'm to I'm actually going to change your mind on that is actually. It's really my fault. It's your fault. Yeah. It's my fault that José does fighting for the belt because that's who I was originally supposed to fight with, Dominic. But this whole coma thing.

So all is going to fight for the title then.

It's like you can't do that to the UFC. You know, they stuck to the word and oh, that's interesting.

Still filicide that he was here. We could debate that, but that makes sense. And 100 percent makes sense. That makes sense. It's listen, I'm happy for both fights. I would happy I'd be happy if Marlen fought Pyotr John for the title or I'd be happy if although him I'd be happy if Marlin and Aldo fought again like this. Great fights in that division.

Now that you've stepped down, really, the people that I think that should fight for the belt would be Iljimae Sterling and computer. I'm a computer writer. I am. I'm going to get that off.

It was it was it was Peter. For a while we're supposed to call Peter and then they said, no, it's Peter, Peter, Peter. It's like fate or, you know, fate. His real name's not Faida.

It's Fyodor. Yeah, that's so rude. We said Fyodor.

Yeah, but even somebody like Peter yaama like how dangerous is he really. Yeah he'd be Urijah. But your eyes been out for a minute. Yeah I know. Besides Urijah who what's another big name that that dude has.

No well clearly he's very good, there's no doubt about it. Whether or not he's at your level. You don't find out until he fights guys like you or he fights a guy like Aldo. That's when we find out what's up. But we know he's really good. You know, the way beat up Urijah, it's not just that he beat them, he beat them up. And, you know, urine is always going to be a tough out.

He's a tough guy, man. You're so super skilled, super seasoned guy. Your eyes have been around forever. You know, he's he's fought so many good guys. He knows how to survive and to see puter beat him up. Like, that's like, wow. And he's fucking strong, man. He's fucking strong.

Like, he's got that weirdo Russian strength, you know, he just he he is dangerous. He's got power. He throws knees, he throws up the clench.

Yep. Yep. Dangerous these days.

Technical when I see a guy like that is like he's technical and he has mallis and was almost technical and they have Melisa's like yeah that's that's what I have you know. And I can recognize. Yeah, yeah.

Malus is a good way of putting it. What Mike Tyson would call bad intentions. Yeah. Yeah that's he's got it. So like the divisions never been more exciting, you know. And there's still guys like Jimmy Rivera, still a dangerous, dangerous fighter.

There's like some saying, Joe, it's great division. You think they'll miss me, they're gonna miss you anyway, man. Come on. The hatred. No, no, no. Listen, it's a great job with all that crazy shit. You make people pay attention. I thought it was genius knowing you who you really are.

Character that you did, I get you. I was laughing hard. Are you ready for me to become the entire generation? Will you tell the outside of the bend the knee?

I was crying and I was crying.

Some pictures of that the in the world. That is hilarious. What made you decide? Just like, look, I need something.

I need something tomorrow. I was actually having fun. I wasn't even. Oh my God.

This is kind of a it's funny, but it's somebody high profile that dared me to do I can't do any child with so much.

He's a guy there, you know, was like, oh, all right. So I ended up doing the video and then I was like, OK, what am I doing?

Oh, that's hilarious. But look at what it's done.

Shows like we said, I see I see that entire division because they want to cut its neck off.

And he told me that do something about what you did. That's like this is what Connor did. This is what Charles Sunim was probably the best at it.

The original Chilson is the original pro wrestling style shit talker in May that really made people hyped up about fights.

I mean, you got to give credit to Chale because before Chale, there was you know, I'm going to fuck them up. I'm going to kick his ass. People always talk shit, but they never talk shit with with an entertainer's flair, which nailed did. I mean, even though you kind of knew the change was in over his head and some of those fights, like with John Jones, I had a real deep feeling he was in over his head with Anderson Silva in the second fight in particular.

You know, I just had a feeling he was in over his head, but he would still talk so much and it was so fun and it made the fights way bigger.

They should all thank him. Thank you for what you said about my mother.

Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you for all that crazy shit you said because that that's what really sold that fight.

Yeah. They all made more money because of him and they all man.

And the thing is, is what I admire about that now, like a guy like Kobe, obviously Connor, even Ronder, I think Rondo was more of a persona. It was more the fact that the pressure that comes with that she like that's like a whole nother fight. You have to make sure that you got to live up to your expectations. Right. Me throw it back with the pillow. Do you think of the pillows?

I'm like, do I really got to be the last I know the pillows with the heads. I mean, you're kicking the pillows, different guys heads.

But dude, it was funny. It was funny.

It put extra pressure on you. Right. Because if you lose, people are so happy. But check this out. This is all crazy. I am that pressure and I channel I channel that thing and I almost love it. Joe, it's crazy.

Like I like the pillows, young lady, with your belts and the pillows with TJ's head and just had to Larry, the king of Cream Bend the knee.

So what did your friend that you won't say the person's name. We can say what, what their name rhymes with.

And I like don't tell me later. But what did what did they say to you? Like a watch. You have to come up with this character.

Is that what they said to you know, I think it was after a bit Demetrius Johnson, I went to the to the apex fight with you. I happened to be there and randomly. And then obviously Dana was there at the fights and I pulled him aside. I didn't lets you know, how are you? Well, not that he actually wanted to talk to me because I had come to my office. So I ended up, you know, going from the fights to his office and we're was in his red Ferrari.

It's really nice to us. And he said, hey, but I just wanna let you know that, you know, that I think think I'm thinking about getting rid of the division or I'm going to get rid of the division.

This is what wrapped up Demetrius Johnson, you know what I'm saying? Like, there's there's new blood. And he told me straight up and I'm just like, man, I have to do something, man. Like, if I don't if I start speaking up, if I start being hated, like my division is going to drama and it's up to me. And I felt like that's something that Demetrius never did.

So I tell you why it wasn't entertaining.

It was some people don't, um, people don't pay attention, I think because the media was just so dominant, like they don't appreciate true art.

Man like Demetrius was so dominant that he heard a division because there's like it gets born. There has to be a storyline, a storyline to people in Demetrius wasn't the most personable dude in the world. So I took that upon myself when he said there's a well, I'm not talking about the gimmick.

You know, I was originally originally supposed to go up to the thirty five pounds.

Right. And and I brought TJ down because if I had to go up to 235 pounds, they were going to strip me from my belt like this is a contract. And that was the original plan for me to go up. But then I decided to come down and keep the division and kind of fight for it.

Let's talk about that fight, because that was a crazy situation, right? First of all, TJ looked like a dead man walking going to the way in.

So I said as bad as anybody I've ever seen besides Travis Lidoderm and Travis Luder was a dehydration thing. TJ had starved himself down to a skeleton. It was real weird. And then when you found out that he has taken EPO and then he said. That he was taking EPO because he just didn't have any energy from cutting that weight. I don't know and I don't know what the answer. My brother and I were talking about that yesterday. I'm not sure what it was, but I'm just I felt sick inside when I found out, you know, like it's it's like a sadness that it brings to you because dude is like, yeah, we may talk stuff, you know, to each other now, but it doesn't get that personal or it shouldn't get that personal for somebody to take an EPO meant something that a drug that you just will never get tired in a fight that do with these four ounce gloves, you know what I'm saying?

Like there's a little bit of malice there, man.

So I remember that day I, I talked to my brother.

I talked to mom, like as thick skinned and as we grew up in Wanaka, this is hurting me.

What would you have done if you found out before the fight if they gave you the option? I felt so good. They pulled off, they pulled you aside and said, listen, Henry, the fight's going to go on. But we got an issue. It turns out we just got TJ's drug sample back and he tested positive for EPO. You could still fight him if you want to. We're going to strip him. We're going to even if he wins, we're Stryper and we're going to find them and keep them from fighting for two years.

He's going to get convicted of using the stuff. But you can choose to fight them. Just don't tell anybody.

But here's my deal with you guys. I'm gonna ask you a question like that. I got one for you, too, but OK, but a guy can they can say like a guy misses wait by five pounds, he can still fight you.

That's a fucking big advantage. He didn't have to cut those extra five. You know how many times guys, Miss Wayne, still win? It's big.

It's a big number when guys miss weight and wound up winning the fight, I believe. Who was talking about that? One of the one of the commentators might have been Dominick Cruz.

He was talking about guys missing weight and then winding, winding up, winning the fight because they have an advantage. They didn't cut the wait.

Like we all know, there's a certain point in time when you shouldn't lose any more weight. But we also know there's a darkland where most people don't want to travel through it. We can make it through. You could get to that point where you don't want to do it anymore. You're fucking dying inside, but you stay in there an extra twenty minutes, you make the weight or some people don't. But the guy who doesn't look, it's bad for your body.

He cut that much weight. The guy leaves those extra five pounds on his body.

That's a big advantage. That's big.

Yeah, it is. But also it is actually. It is. What's bigger that or EPO? Oh, EPO. And yeah. Because you said how good he felt. He never felt so good in his life. I'm just I'm just hearing it from him. Yeah. But also in that fight that's when I felt like the most prepared Joel like I fought even till now my career. I can retire, I'm like I'm really done. And that's the best that I've ever felt.

Man, I guess. T.J., Delicioso.

I think to answer that question, I think I still would fight him for that reason. Max, I did everything natural and I use science and.

Well, you you had a really interesting team with you.

The last time you were here were they're called NeuroFocus. Yeah. And you're, of course, one. And I mean, let's without having people go back and listen to that podcast, give me this rundown of what they did in terms of like your reaction times and all that specific sports specific neuro shit they were doing with you because it was real. I say neuropsych, because I'm a more Termez.

Yeah, but it's fascinating listening to them talk about how they used real science and data to mark your performance.

Yeah, I think everything from like the morning by the time I wake up, I have the Omega Wave and a lot of the credit that I do. Otha is out of the USCAP with Rohlman. The the physiology is down there. And it was you know, I wake up every morning. I do. I use Omega Wave, which tells me like which gives you my heart rate ability. It kind of gives me my windows.

What is it called. Omega Wave. Yeah, Omega Wave. And this is a history that's. Yes.

It's just that when you wake up when the first thing you do before you brush your teeth or anything, as you put this strap on and you know, it's it's taking levels of like of your heart rate is what allows you to let you know, according to your your heart rate, how hard you're able to train that day.

So gives it into like you got your windows of trainability and how hard you should go. And it kind of measures a lot of your training. So I do that every morning. And then obviously I've done testing with them from balance, like just body scan, DEXA scans, like a bunch of things and crazy amounts of of testing to kind of figure more out of my biomechanics and things of that matter.

So I only have about three to four hard workouts like a week, like I don't do no more than that, maybe even three, really, because it's all according because it's about you understanding your threshold.

And I think we're a lot of fighters don't succeed is they they exert that and then they want to fight that. And the next, you know, they're on the ground or they're losing.

So they're not optimizing their performance by giving themselves an ample amount of work. They're training too hard, too often, and, yes, and using a lot more recovery, like what I do down there is I do a lot of infrared lighting. I do altitude, altitude, part capsules, the technology that they have, like there's certain headphones that helps, you know, activate like everything in your body, like it is the new age thing with a lot of like like pressure machines and things of that matter.

And a lot of like you do a lot of mobility exercises, like it's crazy how powerful and how strong you become just through doing mobility. My understanding posture. So, you know, a big shout out to my strength coach Andre Hicks and Kevin Longoria, Kareem Amien and everybody down there, because they're they're revolutionizing. And I feel like would what I mean, I feel like I'm ahead on the curve when it comes to understand how to do a proper count for me.

No, I'm not actually killing myself. I'm loving the sport through the process like it doesn't always have to be a crazy battle.

That's a big revelation for a lot of people. They're hearing this from, you know, like, oh, shit, that's crazy. This might literally shift the way people train because so many guys are out there leaving it all in the gym. There's so tough and they're trying to condition themselves.

But there's a there's a just like a tipping point where you're working too hard and you're always sore and your body doesn't have a chance to recover and you don't grow, you don't get better. You just sort of maintain. And that's where a lot of guys wind up getting injured as well.

Yeah. And a lot of that stuff, too. It's like when I do my training, it's like I revolve all my training around my sparring, like my spar's, my most important thing. So I almost no my workouts on hard numbers. I should be that somebody is Apple on Monday. It could be a it could be a seven and eight two practices. Right. On Monday, the next day they're going to be more of like a four and a five, five and a six.

It all depends on your on your match, you know what I mean, on your you know, your performance and all the testing that they've done.

But on Wednesday, this is where I got to deliver and this is where I have to give the ten a aspiring the yes is the sparring days. There's only one sparring day a week two.

So once technical and the other one is all right. And this is we have the ref. I got I got a doctor in there, like literally that's legit. Like every time I spar, the music comes out, my opponent's music, my music.

I walk out, I get checked. Yeah. Real.

Yeah, it's it's done every time during capping on my my my coach Captain Eric Elbrus, and he's, we've been able to simulate and emulate everything that we, that we're going to do in a fight. I give you my training like my training is not me doing jujitsu for two hours and then and I do boxing like no, no, I'm in their place boring seeing where I'm doing good in place, born and then adjusting what I saw in place, point with the coaches individually.

And then I'm giving twenty minutes to my to to that and then I give twenty minutes to my striking with pad work.

Or it could be with the partner but I'm going the whole time you see what I'm saying. So I'm collaborating everything together, simulating the fight as much as possible by being very detailed in my training. Then when it comes to sparring that's that's the real deal. That's where I have to shine and that's how I show myself how good I'm becoming.

Are you using are you taking notes like how are you keeping track of your progress? So you just knowing in your head or you.

I know it and I feel and then I also have like a communication with my coaches. Well, they know that I'm extremely honest, man. I'm not feeling well. I'm not something that I need a rest. Another two, three hours before I go train today, guys, you know what I'm saying?

It's a very selfish style training, and that's a big advantage.

Yeah, it's it's I am giving a lot of knowledge for men, but this is you know, that's who I am. And I want to share what I have.

I think I never heard anybody break it down that way, particularly the fact that I don't think I've ever heard of it. I did. I forgot anybody doing that, where you have your opponents walk out music, you have your walk out music, you have a referee, you do the whole thing. Like I've never heard anybody do that. But that makes sense. And particularly if you do it at the apex center where there's no crowd. Yeah, it is like doing it in your gym.

And this is how we trained for this last camp that I was like the best. This camp that I had with Dominic was like the best fight. That best fight come I've ever had, man. Like the best, because I've I learned from, like, everything that I've done. And I've I it's almost like I've built this team. Like, I don't I'm not from a team necessarily, but I've built this team around me according to every opponent that I fight.

So everybody's moving and everybody's making Dominic Cruz and vice versa for TJ, for Moreland like it. And these guys are being compensated. Dues are being paid, you know what I'm saying? So it's like it's it's it's a real business.

Just say just go out there and spar and try try everything that you do. It's like that. That's to me that's that's that's like that's like a chicken with his head cut off. Like you're not. Are you truly improving. Right.

Well, what you're saying. All of it 100 percent makes sense. I mean, it's brilliant doing it that way is brilliant. And in the process, you cut all the bullshit out. There's things in jujitsu that doesn't work as a wrestler, which I love those things in wrestling that doesn't work in boxing. It's the distance is different like all this. So you almost have to mimic everything that you do in a very technical sense.

So when you do this, are you wearing normal four ounce gloves, the whole deal?

No, they're more like the sparring gloves, like the least popular ones. Yeah, because you don't want to I mean, have you fuck with any of those Onyx ones.

Yeah. With your God damn good. Or those. Those are awesome. Those are the best.

I mean, my gloves I've ever felt once these guys decide to truly launch and whatnot, like I think that company could and could completely take over.

Like that's what I'm saying, to make the best shit. Dude, he's such a mad man about it too. Trevor was on the podcast with Justin and describing his process of making those gloves. He got me a pair of. And let me try on those moments when you compare them to the UFC, one side to side, like what this is, these are crazy good. There's so much better. There's so well, design like everything about it, man.

So it's engineered does the padding is better. It's better padding. It feels better here. Yes. Now he's a wizard. Yeah.

So you're wearing a slightly larger MMO glove. Yeah.

Yes, slightly larger. I get Vaseline the the pep talks like I'm, I'm saying bye to everybody and it feels so normal for me to compete Joe.

Like it's it's crazy.

It really does feel like a sparring session that's so genius that you reenacted every week. Yeah. So you get accustomed to it every week.

Sometimes you're cranky, sometimes you're pissed. But that's even part of how you can have food fight week. You don't need times.

I follow my coach like it's crazy, Eric. Like it's like captain there because it's like man we're like brothers, like he's a coach, but he's a brother. But you know what I'm saying, right?

So it stimulates the fight. Yeah, it's beautiful.

That's a genius idea, man. It really is. And so who's mapping out your training camps in terms of like when you do strength conditioning? When is it a collaborative effort?

It's a collaborative effort and a lot of it I have to pay attention to science. So there's things that my coach have say. There are things that I have said, but it's truly like the science.

So in terms of your recovery. Yeah, yeah. And then what should I eat? Like everything's calculated and how hard I'm going to go that this my meals are prepped according to every day, how hard I'm going to go. Really. Yeah.

So there's times where I'm doing fives for I'm not going to eat like, like when I'm doing a ten during sparring, you know what I'm saying.

And this is go with in terms of your preparation like your pre workout meals as well. Yes. So if you know you're going to spa on Wednesday at what time in the afternoon, you spa sometimes will even simulate the time that we're actually fighting.

Oh, OK. So it's not always not always. Right. Yeah. You don't want always to. When would you eat.

So if you were going to fight at eight o'clock at night, when would you eat. Oh my God.

But that's again a lot of that stuff you would have to say preference man. Like I like to have like a big a big brunch and I really have yeah. Two o'clock in the afternoon.

Two thirty. So you give yourself like five, six hours. Yeah.

Because your nerves like for some reason, like your nerves, it's hard to digest your food when you're nervous, you know, when you're anxious to do something.

So what kind of food you eat before you find, um, eggs, pancakes.

And obviously I need the Cavs or whatnot. Yeah. Just I would just eat normal like bacon, like I eat pretty clean throughout throughout the whole camp.

But you don't have like specific pre fight meals, you know.

No, I think at that point it's just the psychology side of it. You know what I'm saying? Like, I'm I'm going to eat what would the serotonin in my mind, like the happiness in me that what it wants. You know what I'm saying? Because I'm I'm going to deserve it when I when I fight that night, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah.

Like it's a treat. Like it brings happiness to you. I couldn't do that.

The first of the lot Demitrius I was I chicken breast like right after I beat him and veggies like I was super light but I had no fat in me and I you know, I got put out and a lot of them I oh you have to have every style, you have to, you know, turn every stoma because there's a lot of details and it's very complex man.

And if you can understand the game and on the recovery. On the nutrition, on the happiness, on the on the preparation, on the game planning all that. I mean, who.

So let me ask you this. Who is this company that puts these meals together? They're basing it on when you say, look, it depends upon the workout, like how are they how are they doing that?

They're speaking to the physiologists. And you're, of course, crazy, you know?

So it's almost like there's a team of a shout out to them, to my friend's kitchen.

There's a team of of man, maybe twelve people, man.

There's a guy that goes in there every time I fight and he's monitoring my heart rate every time, like he's a slow down, slow down and he'll. He'll tell the coach and the coaches will tell me, like it's all there's a dude in there warming me up before I go train, like at my gym, like a personal trainer every single day.

Do they give you anything specifically right after you're done training to sort of recovery anything for like replenish glycogen? Yeah. Yeah.

So that's immediately what is it you can I get. You can every. What is that.

It's just, it's just the protein OK. It's just a protein that I take soon right after. And even the watermelon like alkaline water. So it's all just down to every T is crossed and every I's dotted and all down to the science.

Yeah, it's fun and that's really interesting. And I think if I have a gift and anything else, I really have never seen myself.

Coscia I think being a coach is I think being a coach is probably the hardest job because you've got to do with pride and then you and sometimes they leave. You would not. But anyways, if there's one thing that I could do and help people with as if I was the coach would be game plan and actually put in like a game plan together and understanding and putting it, putting a solid team together.

When did you start doing this thing where you would emulate your opponents, walk out music in your walk up music and the whole deal since we started, since we fought Demetrius and since I started having success actually since Wilson Hayes.

So I see there's a lot of use of force in haziness since there. And then it got a little more serious when I found Demetrius and then so forth. We just got better, better through our camp.

So that was when you decided, OK, we're going to make some wholesale changes and this is a big one we're going to reenact.

Is it your idea to do it that way? I had to. I had no choice. Yeah, because, I mean, your idea to introduce the fighter and have you introduced and the whole deal have to walk out and, you know, a lot of that was my coach and a lot of it's me like, all right, well, let's take it to the next level.

I put me in the back. OK, so huddle up and five. Yeah, you know what I'm saying. Right.

And I've noticed that since I've done that, Joe, like it's been like I feel like I'm walking out the guys who are getting so better, dude, it's the comfort of how I feel like it's a it's a tactical thing that we developed.

Yeah. You yeah. You figured out a way to make it a normal part of your life. Exactly.

That's a big thing about fighters returning. Right. The taking a long time off and then coming back. It's very difficult because everything feels weird, right. Yeah. I remember they were talking about that with Sugar Ray Leonard when Sugar Ray Leonard was in the process of making one of his comebacks to one of the things they did is they put together might have been for the sacrifice.

They put together fights in the gym like they had a real fight in the gym. So it just get used to it. Like you would fight twelve rounds in the gym. Yeah, I guess.

I guess you go back to it all. It's all just simulating man. It's not. Yeah, but but this is the biggest problem that I've seen because I've gone through a lot of coaches now is getting all the coaches on the same page and getting all the coaches, you know, getting them to commit on science.

Is that all your do you have to handle everybody or to someone. Yeah, Captain. Captain does like he does all that.

And, you know, not just that, but even like for me it's like stem cells and like I did stem cells in Columbia with bio accelerator out in Columbia about six months ago after my fight in man, I felt so good for this fight to have a jacked up neck stem cells like they did a whole you know, they did they did all the scans you could think of, you know, from X-rays to MRI and whatnot.

And, you know, they would pinpoint like where my my body was was an ache.

And they just started injecting stem cells on me, metal over my neck, parts of my body that I've never experienced before. And immediately my neck started like the same almost the same day with my neck started feeling better. And ever since then and ever since then, I think three months into it, I mean, in my neck was a hundred percent, man.

I wrestled my whole life. Wow. My neck jacked up.

So many people have jacked up next from wrestling two backs, backs, necks.

So knees and shoulders. That's been a big part of my my my recovery. And remember specifically what kind of stem cells they were using.

Did they tell you? Well, it's done in Columbia. So it's the stem cells are being pulled from a baby's umbilical cord. So then, um, you know, so I don't necessarily know the full science of it, you know, the I guess the basic side of it.

But, man, I can tell you, my my body feels good.

Yeah, it's real shit, man. It works. And I have had stem cells done on my knee, my shoulder. I've had a bunch of different things done for injuries you've done and you've done that here.

You have done it here. Yeah.

I don't know if it's the same level because when I was when I was explaining it to or talking to one of my friends about it, what's the difference between that and what they're doing in Panama? Like Dr. Neil Reardon has a clinic down there in Panama. They send a lot of fighters down there as well. I think they're allowed to do anything like I mean, they get Buckwild.

They could fill you up with stem cells, like whatever limitations they might have here in America. They don't they could just they have a fat syringe with them.

Just fucking get in there. I don't know. I really wish I knew.

Yeah. I don't know if this is true, Joe. Or maybe you can look it up. I don't know if I don't know if even animals I don't know if somebody says something is done with the stem cells of an animal of a horse. I think. Well and they're using it.

Well, see, that would be weird when people started growing like horse hair over the body.

Him that's a trail to take this. Didn't happen for two years and two years later, people start growing hair, weird hair on their chest and shit.

I mean, I don't think that's going to happen, but I think along the lines of all this medical experimentation, we're going to get some pretty spectacular results.

And some of them are going to be bad.

Just make sense. Someone in some other country is going to take. They probably already have the probably taking some chances and makes the person with a crocodile or something.

You know, you don't think they've probably done that in some places, right? For sure. Right. China.

It's crazy what our world is coming to, man. And how would it's how different. It's like these last 10 years and how different has it been? You know what I'm saying? Yeah. These last 10 months, last 10 weeks, things have been crazy, so weird time to be alive, things are happening very rapidly from the invention of the cell phone to social media to the ability to share videos and for people to get information, for people to find out about world events or people to get together and and try to make change.

It's just a different world. It's different world in good ways and bad ways. It's a different world. People are more disconnected than ever while being more connected than ever.

Yeah, there's a lot of things, a lot of things about this life that are really weird.

Do you think the world's getting better? I have hope, man, when I see, like yesterday there was part of the George Floyd protest in downtown L.A. had filled this. It's a crazy picture, man. You see the picture of the street filled with people, all non-violent.

So all the looting and all that shit seems to have stopped. And now the people that remain seems to be they seem to be dedicated to change in a way that I can't remember anything like this in my life. I think this is this has a real dislike of this man's murder, has a real chance of changing the world and changing America for sure. I think it really does and has a chance and further bridging the divide between people and to to get people to look at things in a in a better way, like look how many people got together for this.

Look how many people. I mean, it's it's. It had the real bad parts in the beginning with the looting, but I don't think they're I don't think this is the same people.

I think those are people that are broke because covid kept them locked up in their fucking house for months at a time without any ability to make any money. And I think people saw free shit and then everything got wild and it was jumping off and people were smashing windows and a lot of people just stole shit. That's what I think. But I don't think that's the same thing that's happening. I think that's happening along with this protest and the protests.

Protest is pretty fucking amazing when you think that this in our time, we've never had a moment like this where literally the whole country is getting together and saying things have to change and stop their defunding the Minneapolis police department matter.

What about. So I always do. Yeah. So I was too young, I guess. So I would ask you for this.

The Rodney King show that Rodney King. I wasn't here for that.

I watched it on TV, but I was in New York. I came here right after the Rodney King shit. But the thing about the Rodney King shit was it was confined to L.A. You know, people weren't writing about Rodney King in New York. It was just an L.A. thing.

These riots were all over the country, man.

I mean, the Freddie what happened is, was the guy's name in Baltimore, Freddie Gray.

Yeah, that was the last big one, I remember that was about five years ago, and when Freddie Gray was killed by the cops, they went crazy in Baltimore, lit everything on fire and smashed everything. But it was still just Baltimore, you know, with George Floyd.

It's the whole country now. It's just an excuse to. It was it's this is what it is, man. It's like people are fed up. People are pissed. Yeah. But it's also they're also broke, man. They got and not it's not through no fault of their own. They got stuck in this covid thing like we all did. And they were forced to not be able to work for months and months at a time. And most of them still are back at work.

Right. So they're broke and they're fucked. And and this is a chance to steal some shit. I don't condone it. I don't condone it.

But I saw a lot of what looked like high school kids running out of those things, holding boxes of sneakers like they just were taking advantage of free shit.

And yeah, there are some bad people in there, too. There's some criminals in there, too. There's some people that lit, you know, churches on fire. There's some people who did some horrible shit.

But I think. The whole movement is not connected to that, that's just some people that did some shit taking advantage of a moment in time where everything went haywire. But the people that are marching, they're doing it very peacefully in these enormous groups. I think it's got a real chance of being something that. That changes the way cops interact with people. It's got a real chance because it's so big. Yeah, I guess as a fighter like you don't you don't like you've ever like rough play with your friends and you're a little kid.

And then all of a sudden there's like a mosh pit. The next, you know, you're freakin here. You know, you're you're being suffocated. But I'll by everybody's way like that, feeling like these cops, they think, you know, sometimes the people that are being arrested, they're they're fighting, man, because that's a lot of pressure on the neck or that's a lot of pressure on the stomach and things like that, you know, so they can make the excuse that you're resisting arrest.

But look, everyone's going to resist when you put your fucking chin on their neck.

Yeah. You know, that's crazy. That's torture. And also the way the guy was lying down when he had his chin on his neck, he was lying with his neck against like this drain. So this is like this like cement drain area and his neck is right there. So his shin is on the top of his neck and then the drain area is the bottom.

It's fucking horrible. It's horrible to watch, man. It's like you're watching a guy getting tortured to death. Something has to be done now. I don't I don't think it's defund the police, I think it's definitely get rid of anybody like that guy and it's retrain them, train them where they realize that like there's a chance to he there's a chance to do this correctly.

You have an amazing job. Being a police officer is is incredible responsibility.

And it takes an incredibly powerful person to do it and not abuse the power that you have, because people have a tendency when someone says, why do I have to do that? Because I fucking told you I'm the cops. Like, that's what they're doing. When they have that kind of power, they just go to it right away.

It's you. You need exceptional people. And there's a lot of people that aren't exceptional and some of those become cops. And you see these non exceptional people who are cops who abuse the fuck out of the power that their they've been given. That's the problem. I don't think the problem is that we don't need cops like Jesus Christ. If someone's breaking in your house, you want to be able to call the cops. If you've got a real problem in your life and you know there's something going wrong, you want to be able to call the cops, but they have to cops have to have a better relationship with the people in their communities.

Yeah, I mean, I think out of all this craziness going on, I think at the end I think people are starting to unite. You know what I'm saying? Like even through this whole court, some not so much what happened with like I think it's it's made people more aware that anything could come and go, you know what I'm saying? Like, look, look, it was a revelation for me. Look at it. Look at Kobe Bryant situation.

You know what I'm saying? That's yeah. Even the most wealthy of people could die because of a mistake.

Yeah. The helicopter, you know, nothing's going to save you so you don't get sick. I mean, the most beloved of people doesn't matter. You slam into a mountain, you slam into a mountain. Yeah. Yeah.

But I think through this whole tragedy, I think I think everybody will be will be better off and like I think will be better off. That's the hope. Well yeah. I guess that's the whole idea.

We just left the rock. We need more good days, you know, like we have a good day and then a bad day and then another bad day and then another bad day. And another bad day. In a bad week. In a bad month. That's a lot of people right now. And then the riots broke up and now the riots are over. The looting seems to have stopped. The National Guard's moving back out. Let's hope people keep it peaceful and the people keep it peaceful.

It really could change. The world really could.

Yeah, well, let's hope on that.

Let's hope so. What do you do now, Henry Cejudo? Say if you do decide to not fight again, you like. I'm done. I did what I had to do. I'm Triple C, two world titles and Olympic gold medalist. My name is Sweatsuit in the history books. That's who you are.

And that's I think I've got to go to talk like that. You see my word there were I'm an analyst.

When I look if I look at you completely objectively, even if I didn't know you and you're a great guy and I always enjoy talking to you, but if I didn't know you, I'd be like a motherfucker, like name someone who's done more to name someone who won two world titles and a fucking gold medal in the Olympics and wrestling and did it all in the most technical of divisions. Yeah, like I said.

So like this is like I'm not saying I'm the best fighter in the world because I'm not man, there's I would even put Demetrius Johnson, like, in front of me. I would put a lot of people in front of. You know what I'm saying, though? I do have a win over them. But I wasn't the best wrestler in, like I wasn't like the greatest, you know, in wrestling, even though I was an Olympic champion.

Like, I fall into a very secluded group, but I'm one of a lot, you know. But I think when you collaborate both of my Akeley's that I've done in sports, that's where the greatest commonality of all time, you know, comes. And and it's. Yeah, and it's a gimmick. And I say it a lot. But, you know, part of it is part of the gimmick is I am telling the truth. Yes.

You know what I'm saying?

Like it is it's a gimmick or not. It's it's in the conversation. You're in the conversation.

So maybe in the next 20 years they'll it's a conversation like, I don't know, like there's a lot of people to think it should be GSP.

And that's in the conversation he's in. The conversation is one of the greatest of all time. Some people say you guys must have forgot how good Anderson Silva was when he was in his prime. That's true, too. That's in the conversation, too. But you are as well, man. You really are. I mean, whether you you know, whether you were joking around about it or not, you're in the conversation is one of the greatest combat sports athletes of all time.

And there's a real good argument that when you beat the guys who you beat, particularly beating Demetrius Johnson, who is untouchable, you know, beating Dominic Cruz the way you did, which is Dominic Cruz is always known for not getting hit. And, you know, you hit him and you hit him a lot. And then coming back from the Mahlum rise fight. Holy shit. After that first round to come back and dominate him and just glue yourself to him in the second and then put him away.

Fuck, man. I mean, those are pretty, pretty powerful accomplishments. Yeah. No doubt about it.

Now I appreciate it, Joe. I appreciate the offer. I think to answer your question, what's next is like there's a. There's not only the whole Konarski fight that that, you know, because he's he's not that was targeted, but I call him Overgrow Midget and he's not that he's not that much bigger than me.

And I feel like, man, I know I could beat him. I just know it's just you walk around out when you were about 150, but.

Yeah, but it almost it would have it would be my skill.

What would you do to prepare for that. Would you gain any weight or would you just keep the, the body weight you have with you.

Yeah, I would try to keep maybe another maybe five or six pounds, but I wouldn't want to like I would try to do it as natural as I possibly can just to have a little more mass.

But it's a big jump. Yeah, it does get dangerous men at 45.

Yeah. Those are 45 or some of them are enormous, you know. Yeah.

But the other one is and there's actually, you know, potential in the talks, like he's going to talk with Ryan Garcia's manager, possibly making a fight with. Ah yeah. With Ryan Garcia. Ryan Garcia the boxer. A boxer you're going to box.

Why not. Why you to call me crazy if things are now, you know, financially and you know, the cars are played, right?

Yeah, why not? He he tweeted at me, he says, you know, he pretty much called me on the way.

I took it to him as long as he can throw some leg kicks in there, you get three three leg kicks around. Yeah. So it's been a lot night have actually been pretty busy like I was with I was with Tyson. Now we're at the AIW event. I was with them. So there is even a potential even crossing over to a and or the WWE.

Do you remember Piqué karate? Do you remember that.

No, it was I think they used to call it the kick in the 90s. The kick of the eighties. Anyway, Piqué Karate was like kickboxing. They would watch on ESPN at like three o'clock in the morning. Like I think Jeff Foxworthy even had a bit about it, but it wasn't very good. There was some really good fighters like Rick Rufous and Zo Bunch that were real good, Jeremy Trimble, Jerry Trimble.

But the the majority were kind of second rate fighters. No disrespect. They weren't they weren't elite.

And so they had to throw a certain amount of kicks. They had throw like six kicks around. Imagine if you had a boxing match. Were you allowed to throw just two kicks around?

Oh, two leg kicks around a tie.

I would say look at that calf. Could they kill to that land in a round?

That's all you're allowed to do. And that's all I need. That's all I need. That would be up against the box. Yeah. Heck, yeah. Like, this isn't about that.

Yeah. Well, even with piqué karate was all the kicks were above the waist like a lot of the PKK. That's one of the, one of the things that really defined really woke everyone's eyes up to the power of leg kicks was when Rick Rufous fought this ty legend.

God damn it, I'm going to fuck up his name if I don't hear see it written out.

But this Ty guy, Rick, was fucking him up in the beginning. He's real fast and long and hit him with spinning kicks and shit is his name.

Try saying that name C, H, A and G you e k put put that on real quick Jamie, because watch some of some of the action from that. This dude came out, did the Y crew and everything and yeah. Just take it from there and Rick Rufus's lighting them up with his hands.

Rick was really slick and he was probably one of the most talented of all the kick boxers back then that we're doing the above the way stop. But this dude just kept chopping at his legs, man, and chopping his legs and he hurt them.

That's what really hurt him. At one point, Tommy caught him on the right hand. It looked like the right hand. Yeah.

So he had him in real trouble. This is round one now.

This is the first this is the first ever like MIXTER.

Yeah, it was well one of the first ever this nineteen eighty eight. And this is actually when I had oh we heard him again dropped I think.

Did he kick him in the face all the way down to mean he had a fucked up in that first round.

Then the fight goes on, the dude survives and this was like right around the time I was introduced to my tie by this friend of mine that I was training with, that was friends with the other dude who is even back in nineteen eighty eight, was taking trips over to Thailand and he was learning from the Thais and fighting over there and he would come back with these like crazy gashes on his head from getting elbowed.

But I remember that was the first time anybody had ever kicked me in the leg and I was like, oh my God, it's so painful.

And so this is what happens with Rick, Rufus. Rufus had this dude in all kinds of trouble, but this dude area is just chopping and those legs and chopping off those legs. And Rick doesn't know what to do. And he's chopping off those legs because Rick's never fought with leg kicks before. If you did, he never fought a guy as good as this gentleman. So this is the fight.

That's really No. And as the fight that changed kickboxing, it changed martial arts because people understood, like, oh my God, like what a devastating weapon my case to the thighs are goes across the front of the thighs. Minsoo just starts killing his thighs. And what's really interesting is Rick's brother, Duke Rufous, is now one of the top M-m coaches in the world.

Look at the calling time out there, making him sit in the quarter of the call and time out. His legs are hurt. Time out like even Jamie knows how ridiculous this is. The rules were crazy back then.

I'm getting into this fight. Yeah, well, I've seen this before.

I believe he gets up and I believe he keeps going. And I believe the dude chops his legs again and then he's done. But he.

Is he going to let them go? I think they might let him go. Are they stopping the fight?

Is this crazy? Like they haven't stopped the fight. They haven't stopped the fight with leg kicks, even though he clearly got fucked up by leg kicks to the point where he was incapacitated. But they're going to allow him to keep fighting, which is just preposterous.

So he gets to walk it off like, all right, let's keep going. Like, this is how weird martial arts were back then. We didn't think we didn't think that those were legitimate. Believe this guy just chopping at those legs. Man Beautiful tie technique. Just so classic with the stance he's got that the hands way up high over his forehead with that that stepping motion.

So anyway, keep it going because they keep going and it makes it into the second round.

You know what the fire reminds you of the various.

But yeah, a lot of ways, except the the chopping down in this case worked. So Rick is like really incapacitated by this point. He just got chopped across the leg.

Again, that's only the third round. Look at that again. Boom and boom and boom. So what's interesting is the Duke Rufous was in his corner and Duke was like nineteen at the time. He's a baby faced Duke. Rufous now is one of the best MMO trainers in the world. And Duke was saying, oh, I just don't think it takes that much talent to kick someone in the legs. Like and he became like one of the best coaches and a world champion himself in my time.

Like, No, this is how and this is not to knock Dick or knock Rick Rufous or Duke Rufous, they're both awesome. This is just to say this was where martial arts was in nineteen eighty eight.

We really just didn't know there was a there was a developmental period where we just didn't know. And see Ric is just still there's still going to let them fight.

Those are hard kicks to men. Oh my God. I mean even though they're stopping like that, those are hard kicks and he's still it's still fun.

He's going to be fucked for weeks. Right? I mean, look, he could barely walk and they're going to let him keep going, give and give it a little little forward head. What is he going to say to him? Oh, you got he's warning him you threw him to the ground.

OK, so they tell him you can't dump, which is hilarious.

He just he's destroying his legs is what he's doing. So they got him in the corner. Look at some of this is the end of the end.

The fight was ruthless. And you got to think like Eric Rufous is so goddamn tough. He's so goddamn tough to just have endured this because he doesn't know how to check it. He's just taking them all like they're like boom. And that was it. That last one, dude. Hi. Hi, Shinbone across the sky, and I think that's the end of the fight, if I remember correctly. Yeah, that's it. That's another one.

Oh my God. They let them get back up. They dusted them off. He's still just getting fucking. It's all leg kicks, man. It's crazy.

I'm surprised he stood he's taken a lot of pain.

Do you imagine how horrible this must have been to him? That was the end that we did before. Yeah, that's the end. Is that the end of the fight or is it keep going. It is the end because it just replays all the other stuff.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that we're watching the same round three times. I don't know.

No, just I think it went three rounds, if I remember correctly. But it was just a horrific example of how this is the development of martial arts. Right? I mean, this is like one of the steps on the way to the UFC is that we have to realize about leg kicks.

It's a ruthless fight to watch. Isn't super pain. Oh, my God. Did you remember that one cat that fought in the UFC that almost lost his leg due to compartment syndrome? Did you ever see that scar? No. You won't want to freak out.

Maybe rethink a come back and I'll show you something. This dude had compartment syndrome in his thigh, so I'm blanking on his name. And Hubbard, Austin Hubbard. He's a tough motherfucker. That's OK.

And they cut him from his ankle all the way up to the top of his thigh. Yeah, he's freaking out. I'm trying to find a good they're all disgusting, the ones they're looking at, people of Photoshopped it.

Oh yeah, it's like the middle of like a Subway sandwich.

And that's his leg. Look at that. What is it? Yeah, exactly, what is that? That's his fucking leg. His leg is so it was so swollen and destroyed and the tissue was so fucked up. That big thing on the tube is a drain to drain all the swelling and the fluid. So they had to open up his leg. I mean, it's one of the biggest scars I've ever seen. It goes all the way down to his knee, like from the top of his hip, all the way down to his knee.

And they had to open his leg up because after the fight, his leg was just destroyed.

Look at that. Who's that? I don't know.

I thought that might have been because it's coming up. I don't think so. That guy's got Everlast shorts on. I don't think that's the same cat. I don't know, there's a lot of those dudes from waitI fights afterwards, they have giant swollen legs, but that was that was definitely his leg because John Anick showed it to me in between fights. And he's like, have you seen Hubbards injury? And I'm like, oh, I heard about it.

He's like, No, no, no, you got to see it. Look, look. That's what it looked like. I always look at the size of that scar, man, and look at the blackness of all the tissue, like it's all rotting and it's all destroyed from Shin's brow.

That's terrifying. That fucking shit is terrifying, and that is what Rick Rufous went through, just got his legs destroyed.

I think I think I want to stay retired. I forget what worries me. Yeah, I did.

Yeah. It looked like like some pulled pork strawbery.

What were we just talking about when we brought up what was next door?

Yeah, we were just talking about career. And you were talking about possibly boxing. Yeah, possibly Ryan Garcia. So is that just for a giant payday? Yeah.

Yeah, obviously to win. Obviously to fight. What is he turn around if he's in the boxers don't get as crazy as we do, you know what I mean. They don't get crazy heavy, but I'm walking around 150. So if we do fight it probably at thirty five, which is good I think, I think McGregor, I think MacGregor's lean in with, with Mayweather. I think if Ryan wants to do it and I think it's how much time would you need to prepare for something like that.

Probably about two to three months to about three months. Three months. Yeah. And like three months at least.

How much on a regular basis is boxing a part of your workout to know that you you did a lot of amateur boxing right out of your Olympic career. You went right into amateur boxing. You did that for how long?

I did that for three years.

And that was thinking about trying to make the Olympic team again. Now, once you went back to my training, how boxing focused is your moment training?

It's a lot, but it's also different, you know what I'm saying? So now it's just I don't even call it Muay Thai or boxing like it's all it's just me, right? You know what I'm saying? Because the distance, everything's just different. Right. And then you got to do it according to your your style, according to what you what you feel comfortable throwing.

So all of your workouts are m.a you don't know. Yeah I'm, I cut, I'm cutting all the bullshit out man. I think when you get to that level we're OK man to a two hour strike in class, it's just too much.

Right. You know what I'm saying to our teacher to class. That's not my base, it's not good and it would be too much.

What about when you're done with a fight, when you're done with the fight in between fights, do you work out just to stay fit? Do you work out for fun? Do you go and do like a jujitsu class with a guion or anything like that? Or do you stick to sports specific workouts even in between fights?

Yeah, even in between fights. Or I could return depending on the art that I really got to develop so I could go back to just a two hour class in boxing or two or an hour and a half of boxing, an hour of just pure wrestling. So you have the ability to do that. But there comes a time where you just got to getting maybe maybe within eight to nine weeks, OK, you got to transition everything. Just make specific.

And then having your partner, Jose Aldo had a different style than Dominic, you know what I'm saying? And I was able to understand Dominic for you because he was a last minute replacement the last four weeks.

And how much time do you spend and how much effort do you spend weeding out sparring partners and getting the right ones? And how important is that for.

That's my that's my coach's job, you know what I'm saying? That's for him to call and to see the people that we know and trust. Right. And all that.

And and the other thing is, is my it's hard. It's hard. What I do. I mean, I got I got I got a guy alternating like every runner. I'm doing a five year old fight and I got a fresh start in every round you want. I'm going hard. Right. You know what I'm saying? So a lot of like the the practices that I'm doing, like I'm really investing and what I'm doing and sparring to these guys.

No, you I mean, have you trained with them previously when they make it to a camp? This is the first time you've ever trained with.

Yes. The first time you ever change it. So it becomes a very mature relationship with a thoughtful, very businesslike, you know what I'm saying? It's like, hey, why you're so focused and you become serious to do such and such, you know what I'm saying?

And when you say that, like, say, if you're fighting someone who has like an unusual southpaw style, they have to when they spar with you, they should be sparring from a southpaw style.

Yeah, southpaw style. And obviously even from the height, like, I don't I don't know if I went too far, Dominika, everybody had to be exactly like size and had to be able to move like him or try to move like in the best possible game. So I'm not sparring with the guys about my size. Right. Right. I know what I'm saying. Yeah.

So it depends on who you're fighting. How hard is it to get a guy to mimic dominant Cruz? Actually, they're out there, man.

There's a lot of guys I grew up watching Dominic fight a lot. There is a guy at our gym, a couple of guys at our gym that that moves just like that.

Yeah. So he's he's with his whole ah, like they studied him. They were able to develop certain things. And they're they're the ones that were telling us like, don't even go for this smoke bomb. The hands take the legs are small, kind of the hands take the legs off. And something that I saw from from this whole covid thing for fun in an empty arena is our corner. We're prepared. Check the sojo like this is how people here like we're even prepared to the point.

We're using code words, you know what I'm saying? So every time I heard spaghetti take the legs out, pumpkin. You know, let's start going up top. You know what I'm saying? Potatoes is, you know, it's sticking the bodies, you know. You know what I'm saying? And I could hear clearly what. Our next caller was saying during the fight there, like lefi kick, I could hear it, but I'm just like, so maybe you understand that maybe the sport of fire, maybe it's just you fighting.

But when you're able to study, just like even your surroundings, you understand that this this is a team sport man was able to hear his coach so loudly.

It was fun.

It was fun. It was fun. And it was it was it was fun.

Man, I know how the other people I thought what I've been fighting with tons of people in the crowd, like it was fun to just hear the corners man like it was a treat for me.

Was it weird that that's going to be your last fight? At least you've experienced it once, right, to do it that way?

I think that's why I liked it. He was so personable. Man, I've I know every detail in the UFC from the security guard to highlight that relationship with these people, with Jeff Novitzky. I mean, you know what I'm say what? They have to take a picture. A fan wants to see you. Yeah. I'm giving back to the people that have that have been here the last I don't know, what, five, six years.

Was it more or less relaxed when there's no audience, more relaxed, more relaxed?

Yeah. Yeah, way more relaxed.

Seems like it would be. Look at the fights. The good this cardamone. Do you think you think the fights would be like that? If there is there is a big crowd like people who are into their movement, whether you're winning or losing them, maybe what?

There's also the factor of the smaller octagon. What do you think about that they're using for the APEC center, the twenty five foot octagon?

I love it. Yeah.

Yeah, I think it's I want to see blood, Joe. Something I want to see blood. I want to see exchanges.

I feel like you can still move in a twenty five foot octagon, you can still get away from shit but you shouldn't be able to get away from everything all the time.

Like the bigger the octagon the more it comes.

If you going to use an oxcart at all, I think small ones better. My feeling is you shouldn't use anything. My feeling is it should be in a football field.

Matt, up a fucking football field.

I'm for real. Wear this. I'm not joking. I've said this a million times. Just let the girl go up the stairs.

Well, there's no no obstacles, no wall to press someone up against. If someone gets up, they have to get up on their own, like they have to be flat on their back in the middle of nowhere and they can't use the wall to get up. I feel like there's a factor and I don't think it's a good or a bad thing. But there is a recognisable factor that the cage provides. The good thing, if you want to say a good thing, the smaller cage is better because it can't go anywhere.

The bad thing that there's a cage at all and that it does get in the way, it does become a thing. Yeah, like when someone's clenching you against the cage and then you your back is against cage. There's a barrier, you're stuck.

Feel like it would be better if there wasn't a thing that someone could press you against that would be good for their advance. I'm saying. Yeah, yeah.

No I hear you. But it's almost like the documenter. Yeah. You know, and obviously. But bigger.

Yeah. Bigger is a big open like basketball sized court. Put some crocodiles out. No, no.

Just having a real like a big wave on the other side.

And I could argue that it's a dumb argument because I also think that it's better to have a twenty five foot octagon than it is to have a 30 foot octagon. I think it's better to have it smaller so you can't get away. If you're going to have a thing where someone could press someone against it. I think it should be smaller. But I'm a moron. You don't have to listen to me. Yeah, no, I get you.

It's it's. You know, if you're fighting in the woods sometimes, what would you be practical? Would you prefer the larger octagon that you've fought in in Jacksonville or the smaller one, like the apex center for your style as a wrestler?

I'm going to Russell is going to be the smaller one I find both as if I was a striker. I was like somebody like, you know, just one of the strikers. I would a good striker, maybe Sean. Maybe I wouldn't need a bigger cage because the rest is out there to cut distance. If you know how to use a cage, it's that it's a power.

It's a powerful tool.

What do you think about the possibility of becoming a coach? Is that something you really consider because you were kind of talking about the heartbreaks of it and why? I think you would be an amazing coach.

Yeah, I don't. But maybe to a certain extent and I think the right people. Yeah, exactly. It's hard. You know, it's hard. And this is why because there's some people, you know, we talked about heart and ability to do things like this. We have a lot of hard. But their abilities, just like what are you going to get it right. Right. Or vice versa.

So I think because I know what it takes and if I don't see that from a certain person, then I just I can't be a part of it. Well, let me put this in your head.

Think about this team that you put together. Think about this scientific approach that you guys put together for formulating your camps, whether from nutrition and training and recovery and all that stuff. Now, imagine doing the same sort of work with bringing you disciple's, someone who puts the same amount of effort into finding fighters that are worthy of your kind of coaching. You could develop a fucking empire. Yeah, yeah, maybe, maybe come on some, but it's that I want to get into real estate and I want to do.

Do you. Yeah, I want to I want to do that. I want to do want to get paid. I want to get paid. And I go I love freedom more than anything man.

Like I've completed my whole life from age 11, Joel, I have over like 600, maybe 700 wrestling matches, competitions, man boxing, wrestling from age 11 to 33.

That's all I've ever done. That's all I've ever known was competition. You don't compete.

I've done this unless I ran Garci or maybe the Konarski. But even then, if it doesn't happen or whatever, it's OK, man. I'm happy.

Whatever happens, man, what you've accomplished so far has been truly spectacular. And I really believe that you could do anything you want, whatever it is, whether you decide to focus on real estate or anything, a man who can do what you've done can do anything. And I think it's one of the best lessons of martial arts.

You know, that the amount of power that you have to have in your mind to push your body to do what you've done, to push your your will, to get those workouts in and to compete when it's when it's game day. You've done that. You've done it in a way. You've overcome the bout and you're you getting out.

Why you still fresh. Yeah. Yeah. Young man. Yeah. Thirty three. Thirty three then. It should be. Yeah. Young man. You have all this energy back. I got some hairs on my I got some grays and you've had a very strenuous life.

I mean, you know, very few people have put their body to the kind of strain that you have in all those thirty three years. But you could do anything, man, anything, whatever you want. And you get out with your wits intact. Yeah, no, thank you, Joe.

Thank you for man. Thank you for everything. And this was this is a fun time, you know. My pleasure. And a chance to share my knowledge and obviously getting the chance to hear your knowledge and spend a good time.

I just want to correct you. Mind if you give a couple of. Thank you, sir, please. I want to give a special thank you to to my new sponsor, Smart Cups.

That was just exploit your friend who owns markups. Yeah, Krischan. He just showed me a video of what it is. It's what can we say it. Yeah.

Yeah.

You want to explain in a they figure figured out we have 3D print nutrients and flavor in the cups so you take the cup. It's crazy. You should have ever seen there's a cup you buy like a box cups take the cup, you pour the water in the cup and it turns into this electrolyte drink because the 3D printing of all the stuff is actually on the surface of the cup. It's pretty fucking bad.

It's a trip. So let's say, like, I'll give you an example. Let's say, you know, you go to a ballpark and you want to line like the ballparks for fifty thousand people is the world champion. They're going to have a bunch of lines like that. Dude, it's expensive. And that's what it looks like, folks.

So that's what the 3D printing flavor and nutrition that's in these cups and that stuff.

In the for instance, that picture right there, like if you like your beer with lime like that would have printed like actual lime so you could have a cup that was a lime cup.

You pour your beer into the like you say if you have a corona, you pour it into the lime cup and you get that lime flavor, you know, but check this out, too.

Sometimes you don't even need alcohol. You just need water because there's already, like, alcohol in there. Yeah, but there could be.

Yeah, you just need water turns into beer.

So there's a mad scientist next to you. That real. Yeah. That's crazy. Crazy. So it's a.

Well listen brother, I've said it before but I really mean it is an honor to call your fights one of the coolest things about being a fan of the UFC and then being able to be a commentator. So I know I've experienced history. You know, I've been there and I've you know, I've had this incredible job where I get to talk during some of the greatest fights of all time and try to do justice to those fights and try to to let people know how insanely impressive some of these performances that you've accomplished have been to me as a person who's been watching fights my whole life.

So as a fan and as a person who gets to do it professionally, it's been an honor for real. Thank you, Joe.

Thank you, Joe. That means a lot to me. That means a lot to me. Thank you for giving you the platform. Like, I haven't really shared a lot of things that I've shared today. And there's no other platform here than the Joe Robicheaux.

I'm on it. Brother, thank you so much for being here. Thanks to everybody for listening. Henry Cejudo. It's over, baby. He's judging people in church and their church. Thank you, friends, for tuning in to the show. And thank you to legal zoom visit.

LegalZoom.com, today to take care of some important things you need to get done. Legal Zoom where life meets legal.

We're also brought to you by the motherfucking cash. I have the cash app, the number one app in finance in the known universe. When you download the cash out from the App Store or the Google Play store today, make sure you use the promo code. Joe Rogan, all one word you will receive. Ten dollars and the cash app will send ten dollars to our good friend Justin Ren's fight for the forgotten charity building wells for the Pigmies in the Congo.

We're also brought to you by Squarespace, the host of Joe Rogan Dotcom, the host of Daghestan Hope Dotcom. Many people use it restaurants, artists, all kinds of people, because it's easy. It's easy to make a website and they'll let you try it for free. Go to Squarespace Dotcom slash Joe for a free trial. Then when you're ready to launch, just use the offer Cojo, and you will save 10 percent off your first purchase of a website or domain and were brought to you by Trager Grillz.

My all time favorite way to cook for sure visit Trager grills dot com Joe and use the code Rogan at checkout to get free shipping on all orders.

Thank you, friends. Thanks. Tune in to the show much love to you all. And up about.