
How A Bigger Paycheck Could Lead To Bigger Problems
The Ramsey Show- 91 views
- 27 Dec 2024
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While we're out for the Christmas break, we've compiled some of our favorite John and George calls from the past couple of years. Enjoy your day and we'll be back with a live show in the new year!
John Delony & George Kamel answer your questions and discuss:
‘We make $330K and live paycheck to paycheck'
'Is my mother-in-law is trying to cause a rift?’
‘I feel guilty for spending money on therapy’
‘I'm 15, how can I help my parents financially?'
‘Dealing with my husband's gambling addiction’
'We've been living in a hotel for 3 months.'
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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr. John Deloney, best-selling author of Building a Non-Anxious Life. I guess I'm an aspiring best-selling author, John. I just pre-launched a book, and I hope that it's successful as yours. It's called Breaking Free from Broke. It's on presale right now at ramsey solutions. Com/store.
Work hard, George.
Inspiring.
May you accomplish all of your dreams.
But we're both YouTubers, so we succeeded in that regard. You're crushing me on YouTube. If that's success. Well, let's take some calls. The number is 888-825-5225. We'll help you take the right next step with your money, your mental health, your relationships, whatever it is, we will give you our advice. That is a guarantee. All right, let's start with Jessica in Boston. What's going on, Jessica?
Hi. I'm wondering how my My husband and I were a family of five. We have three kids, five and under. We both work. We make a very good living north of 300K a year, which almost 50 of it is tax-free because my husband receives VA disability pay monthly. But we've had several crises, I guess, come up the past two years. We were debt free, but now we've due to the unexpected occurrences. We're now living beyond our means, paycheck to paycheck, have no savings. Our emotional, our physical health is taking a toll, our marriage is taking a toll, and we want to stop living paycheck to paycheck. How do we get out of this? How can we repair the relationship along the way?
I'm sorry to hear what you're going through.
Yeah, what happened?
What were the crises?
The height of the real estate market, we sold our first house. This is our opportunity to get debt-free. We were probably, I want to say between I see to 65,000 in debt. At the height of the market in 2021, we sold our first home, walked away spot free, paid off the entirety of our debt. Then I got pregnant with our third child. I was only six months postpartum, and I was actually struggling with postpartum depression in the interim. We had major complications. I was in preterm labor for almost three months, and I am the breadwinner between me and him. Very high-pressured software sales, technology sales, I should say, job, which forced me I need to take a medical leave of absence due to my postpartum getting so bad. It was literally for the safety of myself and my family that I had to take a medical leave, and the day I returned to work, I was laid off. In turn, we literally two weeks... Sheesh. Yeah, it was bad. I want to say a month prior to me going back to work, we had just closed on a new home, our forever home, and the bills piled up quick.
How much debt are you in now?
I want to say between 22,000 to 25,000 total.
What debt?
Yeah, so it's Secured loan debt, credit card debt. Should I include the car or no?
Yes, that's debt, isn't it?
Okay, then it goes up from there. I would tap on a total additional $60,000.
You're probably $85,000 $3,000 in consumer debt? Correct.
Are you back to working now?
I am. I found a new job fairly soon within a month, and I am working.
Are you still making 300,000?
Being in sales, it takes some time to build the pipeline again. Okay.
What's your husband do?
Yeah, he works for the government, and he was a Marine, and now he works for the government as a safety inspector for OSHA.
I'm going to let George talk you through this debt situation, but I want to say a couple of things, okay? Okay. The first thing is, I'm really, really glad you're still here.
Thank you. I appreciate that.
Making that call when you're holding a baby is one of the scariest calls you can make, right?
It is. Yeah.
Because there's that demon telling you that they're going to take your baby away. People are going to say you're crazy, they're going to lock you up. I'm so, so proud of you for doing that. That's hard. We're good now, right?
For the most of the time. I still have moments. Yes, there you go.
Let me ask it this way. You're always going to be around here, right?
Yes, for sure. Good.
The second thing is, if you haven't already, there's going to come a moment when you all are going to have to, and the quicker you get here, the quicker you can begin to walk the path that Jordan is going to lay out for you. You're going to have to make peace with, grieve the crap out of, but make peace with, Here's the life we had, and now, Here's the one we're in right now. The more you try to, quote, unquote, get back to what we had, the more you're going to make yourself nuts because you're just going to run in a circle. You're going to be dragging what used to be.
That's a pair of assessment.
We used to have $60,000 cars. We don't anymore. We're a Camry family now. We used to have a humongous house, and we had our forever house. It's not our forever house anymore. You and me forever husband, but the house isn't, and that's okay. We used to make 300 grand, now we don't. Maybe one day we will again, but that's not the world we're in right now. When you make peace existentially with those moments, then remember we had Alexis? Yeah, but now we got a Carola, and it gets us where we need to go. You got a bunch of dope Marine tattoos, but you're going to look awesome. Smoking hot, getting out of a Camry. That's just the world we have now, right? It's not less than, it's just different. It's different. It'll be back. It'll be back. You're hustler. Your husband's a brilliant guy. I mean, you'll be back. But let's make peace with that new world, right? That new world is awesome, by the way. It's top 1% of planet Earth. It's a great world. Just we got to let go of what it used to be. It used to be awesome, and then we got laid off, and it sucks, and here we are now.
Now it's awesome again. Just a different awesome.
Okay.
Jessica, this is going to start with some simple math, but it's going to end with some sacrifice and behavior change. You ready for it?
Absolutely. Okay. Is your husband on board, too?
This is an important factor. He is. He knows how you feel about all this. Okay, we're going to get you to solid ground, and I'll give you some options. It'll be a choose your own adventure. My guess is your take home pay is somewhere around 15 grand a month? Yes, correct. Okay, so let's look at what our expenses are, what do we need to keep the household running? And you're going to do that with a budget. I'm going to gift it to you. It's called Every Dollar. I'm going to give you the premium version. It's going to have paycheck planning, connect to your bank account, all the good stuff. Your homework is to list out every single expense you have as a family and ruthlessly cut out the stuff that doesn't matter that you don't need right now. You got that? Okay. Give me a rough estimate of what that would add up to. Five grand?
For cutting out or the essential- The total expenses that would keep the house running: food, shelter, utilities, transportation, all that? Probably 12.
12 grand?
Yes. With our nanny included, childcare included.
Oh, my. Okay. Remember those sacrifices As you mentioned, Jessica, this is where we might have to figure out how to get that 12 grand down to five. We have 10,000 to throw at the debt, and we can be done in eight months. That might mean selling the cars if you can't make those sacrifices.
It might mean letting the nanny go for a season.
This is not going to be fun, but your life on the your side is going to be way better for it. So hang on the line. We'll give you every dollar. We're wishing you the best.
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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr. John Deloney. Today's question of the day is brought to you by YreFi. Yrefi refinances defaulted private student loans. Defaulted meaning when the borrower can't make the required payments. If that describes you and you've got private student loans, contact YreFi. They can offer you a low fixed rate loan built for you. Go to yrefi. Com ramsci today. That's the letter Y, R-E-F-Y. Com/ramsey. Might not be available in all states.
Today's question comes from Andrea in Arkansas. My husband's mom inherited the family hunting ranch. I I would love to get this call one day, which is worth about a million dollars. My husband and I pay most of the expenses. We use our personal equipment to maintain it, and we are the ones who schedule and host hunters. I also handle all the bookkeeping. Andrea, call me. I I told my mother-in-law that an LLLC needs to be created for the amount of business we do. She met with her attorney, and now the ranch is now only in hers and my husband's name. I feel like she's trying to cause a rift between my husband and me. I'm trying not to judge their family history, but every one of the other four kids are divorced. This seems to be her way of creating an easy way out of it if we were to divorce. My husband and I have a strong relationship, and he assures me not to worry because this will change nothing in our marriage. But I'm the one doing all the legwork and hoping this doesn't mess up our relationship. Am I wrong for voicing my opinion in this matter?
What happens if my husband unexpectedly passed away? We have two questions. We have two kids that will need to be cared for, and we earn nothing from the ranch.
Those last four words tell me a whole lot. That's really the resentment. She's putting a whole lot of work in. She's getting zero dollars for it, and her name's not attached to it. So there seems to be that's all playing into this picture.
Yeah, this is a mess.
They use their personal equipment to maintain it. They're the ones scheduling, doing all that. She's doing the bookkeeping, and she's the one handling, telling the mother-in-law to meet with this person. And I personally don't know the full story. I I don't know if the mother-in-law is being malicious, if this is really a strategic move. This was inherited family land and property that she inherited. The daughter-in-law doesn't have a right to this land, even though she's doing work for this property.
Right. Yeah, so there's multiple things happening here, I think, George. I think one of them is you're running a business that doesn't make any money. Stop. Stop running a business that doesn't make money.
Who is making the money? That's the question.
The That's the only thing I could think of- She said, We earn nothing.
So the husband, she's not getting anything. The husband is not... Is mom making all the money?
Yeah. So if husband is using all of his tools and stuff like that to help because he wants to help out mom, and he's the one good kid, all the other kids are divorced and causing problems, and he's the one good kid, so he's just going to dump some money into this thing. That's one thing. If it's mom's property and she wants to bring on your husband as a co-owner of an LLC in case she passes away, it's easy to go to him. I wouldn't lose sleep over that. But the fact that you're asking this question tells me there's something else going on here. If you had trust in your mother-in-law because of the way she has treated you in the past, and this came up, you wouldn't think twice about it. If my in-law, one of my in-laws, my father-in-law or my mother-in-law, was to do a joint venture with my wife that I helped with, I wouldn't think twice about it because I trust both of them implicitly forever. This tells me there's other trust issues and that mom's maybe been trying to cut you out for a long time, and this is another way she...
Anyway, whole thing's messy. I would ask this way. Number one, if your husband likes hunting on this property and it's fun and he likes doing it and he likes to make a little side money bringing in hunters in, you all figured that out. Even if you bring in side money and all it does is pay the taxes on the land and pays for the feeders, fine. If husband's trying to do this to win mom's favor, and maybe one day she'll leave it to him, hopefully, and now we're getting into messy stuff. If you're running a business that's not earning anything, you need to have that conversation. Whole thing's a mess. But I want to go back to this one question here. Am I wrong for voicing my opinion on this matter. If you are a part of a marriage where both people have a voice and both people can be heard and to say what's on their hearts and on their minds, no, no. If you have voiced your opinion and your husband said, I don't care. Don't worry about it. Then nagging or complaining or going to war is not going to solve the problem.
Then your marriage has deeper issues, which is your husband is going to care what your opinion is on these matters. He's going to do what he's going to do. You don't need to address that core issue, right?
Yeah. Then talk to him. You said, What happens if my husband unexpectedly passed away? Figure out what the will looks like and what the estate planning journey looks like and what will happen with the LLC that he's a part of. I think you have a right to know what would happen there. But I also wouldn't... I I feel like there's just more resentment here because of the effort she's putting in. So maybe she goes, I'm going to back out of this and you all can hire a bookkeeper.
That's exactly right. You can hire a bookkeeper, you can hire somebody who is booking these hunts. I'm going to step out and just be with the kids.
There you go.
It's not a job. It's not like we're going to lose money on it. You all get to get in the moment, and you all knock your lights out if that's something you all want to do on the side.
Not much to lose here. That's right. All right, let's go to the phones. Daniel is in Cleveland up next. What's going on, Daniel?
Hi. Thanks, guys, for taking my call.
Sure.
How can we I'm 23 years old. My wife is 24. We have a three-month-old daughter. My wife stays at home. I'm a nurse. Our yearly income is probably around 60,000. We bought a house around six months ago. We have about $150,000 loan at 5.6 % interest, I think. My question is, we have about $100,000 in a high-yield savings It looks like we'll end up getting another $100,000 from an inheritance, basically, within the next month. We have zero debt. I guess just looking forward I guess, should I be paying off my home? I just don't know exactly, I guess, what to do with the money. I just don't want it to sit there.
Yeah. So the 100,000 in the high yield, does that include your emergency fund? Does that build into that?
Yeah, that's built into that. Yes.
Okay. So what number would that be? Let's separate it out.
I think probably around 20,000.
Okay. So 80,000 is freed up. You've got 100 coming in from the inheritance, you 150 on the mortgage. I would pay off the house as soon as that inheritance comes in. Okay. That's going to lower your expenses. You've got to stay at home wife. It's going to free you up with more margin to build wealth, to give, to up the lifestyle, whatever it is you want to do with that. But that's absolutely what I would do, especially as you filter it through the baby steps. Are you guys currently investing 15% of your income?
No, we're not. I haven't invested anything yet. I'm just starting to try to... I honestly haven't listened to Dave Ramsey much other than in the last few months.
Welcome to the cult, brother. We're glad you're Sure. That means you're trying to better your finances and your family's future.
I love that. So I would be, I'm sure as a nurse, you have a retirement plan, right?
Yeah, I think they match, I think, 4% on a 401k. I need to do that. Then My wife actually has a Roth IRA that her father set up a long time ago. She hasn't put much money into it since then, but.
You can deposit money into there because of a spousal Roth IRA. Even if that spouse isn't working because she's married to you, you can have that earned income from you going into that account. You could max out two Roth IRAs, you could put the 4% to get the match and invest that way. I'll walk you through this in my book, Breaking Free from Broke, and show you that path to building wealth. I'll send you a copy of that. But the spark notes here is I'd get that house paid off. What's your mortgage payment?
It's around 1,200.
Okay. So I'm guessing principal and interest of that is a big chunk.
Oh, yeah. I mean, I think we're paying $800 in interest, just the way that they set up the loan.
Dude, what a gift to be '23 and '24 and not a payment in the world with plenty of money in the bank. If you just keep living like that, you're going to be a multimillionaire giving very generously.
You know what? If you pay the house off tomorrow, you just got a raise to $72,000 a year.
Yeah, because of the...
It makes sense.
I mean, I guess For us, I just feel like I'm at somewhat of a pivotal point because I just don't know exactly what I want to do. I also am thinking about going back to school to try to increase, obviously, our yearly income. I'm really hoping my life can continue to stay all long term.
Well, no house payment with money in the You can do anything you want. You can do anything you want, and it'll give you the margin to do that without needing seven side jobs, so you can be there with those young kids. Bro, you don't have a house payment. This is a great place to be, Daniel.
You won. You won. If you don't screw this up and go take out stupid student loans because if you're an anesthesiologist, you can... Don't take out any loans. Grind it. Take this extra money and spend it, invest it in yourselves. Bro, George, you're right, dude.
You won. You won. If you never have a payment again at 23 years old, you're going to be just fine, my man. Thanks for the call. This is The Ramsey Show.
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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr. John Deloni. Give us a call at 888-825-520. Com. 225. If you want to jump into the conversation and talk about your money, your life, your relationships, your mental health, your boundaries or lack thereof, we want to help you take the right next step. Shelley joins us up next in Dallas, Texas. Shelley, welcome to the show.
Hi. Thank you for taking my calls. I'm really just calling because I've been listening to the show a lot, and I know the baby steps and everything, and I know that I'm in a position where I can afford therapy, but my question is It's just, well, it's not more of a question. It's just an emotional issue around spending the money on therapy. I just feel bad. I know I need it, and my husband supports me, but it just makes me feel It's been… It costs a lot. My insurance doesn't cover the license therapy part of it.
What's it going to cost for you to get this help?
Well, I was looking at better help, and there's I even thought some more affordable options, too. I did sign up with better help, but I'm just feeling like, I'll try it for the first four weeks and then cancel it. I start something, I'll start it. I started therapy before, but it was just costing like 100 a week.
Then I was- Do you feel like this is a wasteful expense in your budget right now? Like, Hey, this money should be going toward this? What's behind that?
I I'm feeling like, I don't know. It's part of my anxiety. It's part of the reason why I think I need therapy.
Well, I think it has nothing to do with money. I think money is the excuse that presents itself that gives you an out so that you don't have to go through this fire where healing is on the other side of it?
Yeah, it could be.
I don't know. I think you should go. It's all confusing. Honestly, The feelings might be confusing, but even if you guys were up to your eyeballs in debt and you need to go to counseling, we would tell you to stop paying off your debt, pause, and go to counseling. Get the help you can care that you need.
Yeah, I'm trying to wrap. You can tell yourself, I know this is so important, my health, but it just feels… It just hurts to pay it. I don't know. I was raised poor. I grew up in a poor family, and we're doing really well now, and I just feel like- That's it right there.
We need to pay for the future. That's it right there. You know why? Because when you grew up, other people, those people over there, they got counseling. They took, quote, unquote, took care of themselves. We don't got time for that. We don't need that. Only weaklings and wimps do that.
Yeah.
Right?
Those people. You didn't even want to say, Oh, I need therapist, because in my family, it would be like, Oh, Well, you're crazy.
You know what? In your family, tell me if I'm wrong, in your family, you didn't say that you needed anything.
No, I actually struggled with eating disorder and everything starting when I was a teenager. Now I'm in my 40s and having panic attacks. I had a dramatic event last year, medical with neuropathy for chronic pain for eight months in my face. It's time.
I can't sleep without heavy medicine. It's time. It's time. Whatever it takes.
If there was a medication, Cheli, that was $300 a month, but it changed your life, would you say that was a worthy $300 to spend that wasn't wasteful?
Yeah. Well, I am spending a lot on my psychiatrist for the medicine, so I have to have that I just can't function.
But your psychiatrist has been telling you for a long time, I'm going to give you these meds, but you need to go talk to somebody, haven't they?
Yeah, he did say CBT would help me. Correct.
It's time.
I think we need to refile this in our brain as this is not a wasteful thing that I could be spending in this. It's too much in our budget into, Hey, this is like paying for insurance. This is keeping the lights on. This is paying for the Internet bill. This is going to add so much utility and value to my life that I can't imagine not doing it. It may not be forever. This may be a season that you go through, and then it's over.
Yeah. I was wondering about, I know everyone's different, but I was wondering about on average, how long it could take. I've had friends tell me, Oh, it took so and so a year to- Listen, if you struggle with- There is light at the end of the tunnel.
If you've struggled with disordered eating since you were a child and you grew up in a pretty tough place, in a pretty tough situation. If you think so little of yourself that the idea of spending money to make sure you're whole and well so that you can show up for you and for your husband and for others, if that shuts your body down or sets off your body's alarms, it's going to be a while. I think it's counterproductive. I'm telling you, it's counterproductive to say, Okay, I'll give you four, and then I quit. That's like going to the car dealer or to the mechanic and saying, Hey, everything's broken on the car. You got 30 minutes, and then I'm just going to come pick it up. I want you to completely reframe this.
I put this stress on myself that I feel like I have to I'm not even going to fix myself in this amount of time.
Right. Listen, I used a bad analogy. You're not somebody to be fixed. You're not broken. Your body's working exactly as it should, given the set of circumstances you grew up in, plus some genetics What you're going to learn is different ways your body can get through a day. That's what counseling is going to do. It's going to let you practice. It's going to teach you relationship. It's going to teach you some new skills. Over time, your body is going to learn, Hey, we weren't safe then. We're safe now. All of that is worthy of an investment. Go. Don't think twice about it. Listen to this. This is important. Your feelings are not designed to tell you the truth. Your feelings are designed to keep you safe given a set of circumstances. So this morning, I did not feel like writing in a journal. I didn't. But I did it because I'm a better husband and a better dad on the other side of that when I get all this crap out of my head and out of my body and on a piece of paper. I will not feel like working out when I get home tonight.
I don't feel like it at all. I'm tired. It's the weekend. I'm going to go do it because I promised myself I would, and it makes me a better fill in the blank. So your feelings? I feel like I I'm going to quit. Cool. I get that. I'm going to acknowledge those feelings. That's real. Then I'm going to keep going. I feel like I'm a waste of money. Cool. Your body grew up poor. It put a GPS pin in poverty. It put a GPS pin and stop spending money on you getting well. Cool. I feel that. I'm going to go anyway because I'm going to get well. I'm worth being well.
That's a good word, John. And tactically, Shelle, adding this as a line item in your every dollar budget that says Shelle's therapy. And then what's going to happen is December, it's going to feel like, oh, gosh, that $300 came out for those sessions. Then January, it's like, oh, yeah, we have that in the budget. Then February, it's like, oh, yeah, we've had this in the budget. And all of a sudden it becomes normal, especially as you Excel through the baby steps and you get to a different place financially. There's expenses in my wife and I's budget that 23-year-old George would be like, whoa, that guy is blowing some money into us. No, we're buying ourselves peace. We're buying our time back with some of these things. And therapy is not a luxury. It is financially for people who can't afford it, but it's not a frivolous expense. It's definitely worth being well. John talks about this in his new book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, which I'd love to send Shelle a copy of that, John, if you don't mind.
Absolutely. Stay on the line. I'm going to hook you up with three free months of better help with my friends there, okay? I'm going to take that excuse Three free months of better help. But if you and your therapist decide, Hey, it's probably best if you keep going, I want you to keep going and stay plugged in.
That's very you, John. You wield that power here on the Ramsey show.
I don't. I've got an extraordinary partner with Better help, and they really, really care about people getting well. It's their generosity, not mine.
That's very kind. Hang on the line, Cheli. We're going to send you a copy of Dr. John Deloney's best-selling book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, and three months of better help on us to get you started on this path. We are cheering you on, and I'm proud of you. That's not an easy thing to call into a national radio show and put that all out there and go, I'm struggling with this. I want to get the help I need. I know a lot of people are benefiting from this call who probably need to take that next step, too, John.
Dude, I remember being a 6'2, 195-pound Texas male sitting at my kitchen table while my little boy was asleep and my wife was asleep in the other room weeping at my kitchen table because I knew I I had to. I also felt like such a wimp and such a weakling and such a coward and all those things. I went, and it's changed everything. Go get the help and care that you need.
Thanks so much for the call, Shelle. More of your calls coming up. The number is 888-825-5225. We'll be right back.
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Com/dave. 888-825-5225. This is The Ramsey Show. I'm John Deloney, joined here by a good friend, George Campbell. Let's go to Alexis in Phoenix. Hey, Alexis, what's happening?
Hi, can you hear me okay?
Absolutely. What's up?
All right. I'm 15. My mom just told me this morning that my parents have had to dip into their savings the past two months.
Okay.
My mom has stayed home with us and homeschooled us for 10 years, and she's going to have to get a part-time job. I'm just wondering how my savings and how me saving for my future fits into that because I feel guilty having extra money every month or having my own money putting into savings while they're struggling. Yeah.
Man, they are lucky to have you as their kid.
You are the oldest 15-year-old I've ever talked to. No.
It's fantastic. Okay, I'm going to tell you something really hard to internalize, and you're going to hear these words and your guts aren't going to believe me. Okay? Okay. It's not your job. You are doing an incredible incredible job planning for your future. And your parents have made grown-up choices, like whatever job your dad is working at is a choice he's chosen to work, and that's his trade. That's what he does. And your mom made a choice, We want to stay at home. That was a collective values-based decision that they made. Then there was a math problem they ran into. And like adults all over the country, brave adults are saying, Okay, this is what we wanted. This isn't the way this is going to work out for a while, so we're going to have to alter our plan and do something else. I'm actually proud of your parents for doing that. It's awesome. It's just going to look different. The greatest thing you can do for your parents is you take care of your business in the classroom. You take care of your business as a teammate around that house. Make sure you take care of your responsibilities with excellence, which I know you do.
Be sober-minded. Be intentional about planning for the future. What college is going to look like, what it's going to cost, where are you going to go? What are you going to study? All those things. That's the way you support your parents, not by taking your part-time job money and trying to keep the lights on. Now, there may come a moment when they ask you for that. It doesn't sound like that's what's happening. It sounds like your mom sat you down like a good mom. She actually sounds incredible. Sat you down and said, Hey, we have some hard realities that we're dealing with, and so I'm going to have to go to work. Home is going to look a little different for a season. Is that what happened?
Yeah.
I applaud her because a lot of parents would try to hide that. They'd be ashamed of that. They'd be scared of that. And your mom did the right thing. She sat down and told you a hard truth. That also means that she trusts you. Does that make sense? That she thinks you're wise enough to hear that, that scary stuff. But keep that in your mind and in your heart. It's not your job. Do you believe me? Yes. No, you don't. But it's okay. It's okay if you don't.
There are some tactical things you can do, Alexis. One is you're 15, you're starting to enter that age where you can go get some part-time jobs. One thing you can do is instead of going, Hey, Mom and dad, I want the new iPhone. It's $1,200. You can go work for that and save for that, and you cover your own expenses of things that are the luxuries in your life. You don't have to go pay the water bill, but you can cover going out to the movies with your friends. It sounds like you already do that.
Yeah. I wasn't sure if that was okay for me to continue to have. Absolutely. I think that's great.
I Yes. Flexing that muscle at 50. I wish John and I were that smart at 15. Goodness gracious.
I didn't know what day it was when I was 15. Listen, we often think that pain is some zero or that grief is some zero. What that means is that George loses his job and I get a flat tire. I am upset, I'm whining about my flat tire, and George goes, Oh, yeah, you think that's bad? I lost my... Listen, grief and your sadness aren't some zero. You can go have joy while your parents are making life adjustments at their home because one doesn't... You just sitting at home and not having fun and not hanging out with your friends and spending your spending money by going to the movies. You doing that doesn't help the bills get paid. Do you see what I'm saying? It's just you joining into their misery into something that you didn't cause. It's not your job. Okay?
Yeah.
Yeah. Go have fun with your friends. I love what George says. If you know, Hey, now is not the time to go ask for the iPhone, whatever, 13 or 17 or whatever number they're up to now. That's cool. That's fine. But do go have joy in your life, okay?
I'm going to do one better for you, Alexis. I'm going to give you Financial Peace University. One thing you can do is you're casually hanging out living room watching Financial Peace University, and you go, Hey, Mom, Dad, if you want to join me. I'm learning so much in this. If you guys want to join me, I think it'd be really for us to go through it together and not as a plate from a place of shame of like, Hey, mom, I need you to just tell me you guys are broke. This might be good for you.
I called a couple of idiots on the radio. I got you solved.
Telling the person who wiped your butt seven years ago this. Just watch it yourself I think you modeling that might inspire them, motivate them, give them some hope. When the time comes, you're going to get older and they're going to be asking you for advice. That's right. It's a great place to be. Hang on the line. Jenna is going to pick up. We're going to gift you Financial Peace University for one year as well as every dollar premium You can get on a budget at 15, and they might see you doing that and go, What was that you did?
That's pretty cool. Go ahead and send her Anthony O'Neill's, debt-free degree, too, Jenna. She can start reading on now, thinking about what college is going to look like in the future. There you Let's go to Vanessa in Charleston. Hey, Vanessa, what's going on? Can you hear me? Yes, ma'am. What's up?
Okay. I'm so grateful to talk to you. Thank you. I'm struggling with some issues.
All right, bring it on. We are, too.
Okay. There's so I'll make you tell them. I'm going to try to keep it nice and tidy. Okay. I'm 51 years old. I've dated a man for about 10 years. We've lived together. I'm wanting to end the relationship. My issue is when we met, I sold the house that I I had my kids in, and I had went through Dave Ramsey, and I had cleared all my debt. When we met, I was debt-free, and I had a little bit of money in the bank. About four years ago, we bought a house close to my daughter, and it was real small. Then another house came up around the corner, and it was in foreclosure. I got a decent deal on it, so I bought it. I own another house about 20 minutes away, and Part of my issues are, number one, I wanted to end the relationship with my boyfriend. My other issue is I'm having some domestic issues with my daughter, if you will, and I think maybe some space, some time, some Faith between us would be good. I have a total of four houses.
What's your mortgage total on those four houses?
I'm broke. When I leave the relationship, I'll have nothing other than these houses and my income.
Is his name on the deed?
No, not on these.
So your name only is on all these deals?
That's right.
Okay. Can you sell all four houses?
Yes.
I think it's time to start It's fresh.
Yeah.
My issue with it is my daughter's having some issues.
Is being broke and having all of your money tied up in these four houses going to help your daughter?
No. No. No. I guess where I'm struggling with it is, well, I mean, two of the houses are rented out. Do I sell the rentals and try to save the house that I'm in, which is not necessarily desirable to me. It's the nicest of the houses, but it's nice to me because I'm close to my grandkids, but my daughter and I are having some issues trying to decide whether or not to put space between us or what, you know what I mean?
Or do I- Or why are the leases up for the renters?
When do I... The first of the year for both of you. Okay.
Then we say we're not renewing the lease, I'm selling the properties.
Here's what I want you to do. Start thinking of it this way. You're trying to look at this as a math problem, as a mothering problem, as a mental health issue as a relationship problem. Whenever my life gets this chaotic, I'm going to clean up my environment and take as many variables off the table as possible. Right now, you are leveraged to the gills in four houses that you can't afford bored, and it doesn't sound like you even want them. If I'm you, again, I would talk to an attorney before you start dividing all this up because he may be claims to this and that. I'm going to take the variables that I can control off the table. I can't control the relationship mess. I can't control my daughter's situation. We're going to have to work through that. I can control how chaotic my life is trying to run four households at the same time. I'm going to sell the houses and clear that debt.
George, what do you think? Agreed.
Awesome. All right, hey, that's the first hour of the Ramsey Show in the Books. Thank you for listening. We'll be right back.
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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create amazing relationships. I'm Ramsey personality, George Campbell, joined by my good friend and one of America's favorite John's, Dr. John Deloney. We are here for you, America, taking your calls at 888-825-520. Com. 225. Maybe you need some advice, some motivation. Maybe you need to take that next step with that broken relationship, the toxic boss, the debt that's been hanging over your head for far too long, and you're just ready to make some changes and live a better, more peaceful life. That's what we're all about on this show. Mary is going to kick us off in Cleveland, Ohio. Mary, welcome to the show.
Hi. How are you doing today?
Doing well. How are you?
I'm going to be honest. I'm a little nervous and anxious right now.
We got you, Mary. It's just us here. Just us girls. Let's talk.
Okay.
What's going on?
I'm calling in because my husband is a gambling addict and has been since January of this year when it became legal in Ohio. It has caused the heaviest toll on our marriage, on our relationship, our family. I'm at the point where I have tried many routes with this, trying to be very gracious on how I go about it, trying to be respectful as a wife, trying to support his mistakes, but trying to get him the help he needs. Nothing is working. At this point, he is very adamant about continuing to do it. I'm at the point where I feel that I need to take my daughter and take a step away, not in divorce, but maybe take some separation until he figures it out. But I honestly don't want to have to do that, but I don't know what That's what I'm supposed to do right now.
What makes you think that, or what's happening that you feel like, I need to get me and my daughter out of this to be safe? I think you're right, by the way, but I want you just to articulate. Something else is going on, what's happening in your home?
It's just an extremely tense environment. We argue all the time. Go ahead.
Are you arguing because he's losing thousands and thousands of dollars or arguing because he's just glued to his phone all the time and he's angry because he wins and loses, or as is most of the time, the gambling behavior and the addictive actions that are this compulsory expulsion is indicative of a much bigger issue in your marriage. You all don't talk to each other, you don't listen to each other. There's no intimacy. It's just become a mess. And gambling is the way he's choosing to handle that global dysfunction inside your home.
Correct.
All of it?
Yes. The line is the biggest thing as well.
Sure. Anytime somebody has a boundary inside of a marriage that they're thinking about laying down, right? This This is my final straw. This is my line that I won't cross anymore. I always want to encourage them to have an or what statement because the person they laid the boundary down is going to want to know.
Can you give an example?
Yes. You need to have an or what statement. You sit down with your husband and say, If we don't go to marriage counseling by the end of this weekend, or if we don't have a date on the calendar by the end of this weekend, and it's next week, If you don't go, here's the or what. Me and our daughter are moving out.
Okay. Period.
You just have to be prepared for the or what because the or what comes with a lot of complexity. I know it sounds super cool to be like, You can Google this and on these stupid websites, they're going to tell you, just leave him. You don't deserve. That sounds all well and good. But there is a significant financial complexity to this, right?
Yeah. I really don't want it to have to come to that. Of course not. I still love him and we have a family together. Of course you do.
I want you to keep this front and center as you move forward. You are simply doing what you have to do to keep your family safe in responding to somebody that's thrown a grenade inside your home. You're not the one doing this, and he will paint you as the villain here.
He has.
That's right. Because he gets to whatever he wants to do whenever he wants to do it with, quote, unquote, you all's money, and you're just whining and nagging and complaining and on. Online gambling, online sports gambling is destroying individuals and homes across this country, period. Dude, I always watch the fights. I love watching the games. I love having some fun with my friends. It's not that I'm like this fuddy daddy that sits in my house and plays Bingo all the time. I love the whole environment, and yet this is destroying people. You've told him that, and he has told you, I don't really care what you have to say. I'm going to keep doing whatever I want to do.
Yeah. I mean, it's In the past few months, I guess to give just some quick context. So pretty much in a lump sum, he has spent between $30,000 to $40,000.
Has he lost it?
Yeah, he's lost all of it. Okay. There's no... I mean, he's won a couple of thousand here or a hundred here, things like that. But he's all together since the beginning of this year, it's been around $40,000.
Can we be honest? This is what you know about. I promise there's more. This is all I know about.
That's right.
I promise you more. Let me ask you a very tactical question. If you move out, do you have a job? Do you have money?
Yes, I have a job. He's in nursing school Hold on.
He is making choices. You're keeping yourself safe. If he's in nursing school, then he gets to take care of his... Pay for nursing. He gets to make all those choices on his own. You need to have your four walls covered for you and your baby if you choose to separate.
Do you have your own bank account?
Yes, I actually did. Probably about months ago at this point, that was one of the steps I took was separating our finances.
We never recommend that, except in at this moment. Does your check direct deposit into that account?
It's still in our joint, and I will just say so pretty much because we don't have any financial security right now. With my job and his job, we get paid each week. I get paid, and then he gets paid the following, and so on, and so forth. With our money that we have right now, I want to take money from my check and put it into ours, but then all the bills come out from our joint because we haven't switched any of those yet. All All of pretty much each paycheck that we get each week is going towards bills, going towards groceries and gas, and then there's nothing left over.
I want you to get with a friend, and I want you to map this out.
Okay? Okay.
You're going to have to move your direct deposit to your new account. You know as well as I do, he's going to hit the roof, isn't he?
Yeah, he already did when I… I mean, everything I do, he does. That's right.
Are you safe?
Yes.
Okay. He's not going to hit you or hurt you?
No. Okay.
We are getting with a friend, and we're going to map this out. What's an apartment going to cost? What are the light and water bill going to cost? We're going to get all this mapped out and lined out. We're going to make sure that our check can cover that. You might need to get some new hours and all that stuff, childcare, all those things. Then we're going to sit down and be very articulate and clear about my or what statement. This changes, or here's what I'm going to do. You can't control anything he does. You can only control what you do. I hate that you're in this situation. Stay on the line. We're going to hook you up with every dollar so you can begin to control what you can control if and when you have to step away. We'll be right back.
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This is the Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr. John Deloney this hour. The number to call to ask your question is 888-825-5225. Jane joins us up next in Lawn, Oklahoma. Jane, welcome to the show.
Hi, how are you?
We're doing great. How can we help you today?
Okay, so this is tough. I've been married about two years, and before we got married, I agreed to not sharing the bank account. I understood his reservations. I do have a full-time job. All right. A couple of months ago, I thought, Well, maybe I really do need to learn to manage my finances better because according to him, I haven't proven that I know how to manage money. I started listening to the Dave Ramsey show because I thought that I knew of the Ramsey Network, and I have I realized that my problems are a lot more intense than just a financial disagreement or a communication issue. He's gone half of the time with his job, and he doesn't leave. He will not give me money for groceries, any necessities. Anytime I bring that up, he tells me I need to manage my money better.
Do you have a debit card?
Do I have a debit card?
How much control and access does he give you to money?
Zero.
So you can't spend a dime if you even wanted to?
No. I mean, I have my paycheck, but that's it.
Okay. You're working Are you in full-time?
Yes.
Do you have any kids?
I have one daughter.
How old is she?
Ten.
Okay. Is he the dad?
No. Okay.
All Are you safe?
Yeah. I mean, physically, yes.
All right, I'm going to trust you. The data suggests that guys who act like this are physically abusive as well. I would even go as far to say maybe hasn't thrown a punch, but has created a world that is so unsafe for your body that it shuts itself down and tries to get small because there's a bear living in that house.
Yeah. I mean, I've been through some pretty traumatic things in my life, but on paper, that would be way worse than this. I've never had a panic attack until recently, so I know full-on panic attack. Okay. I know. I'm educated enough to know that your body starts to do things when- It's trying to get your attention. Yeah. Right.
What's keeping you there?
Well, I did make a vow to him, and I take that seriously. But I have a couple of thousand dollars in debt now that I didn't have before because I have to put gas and groceries on credit cards sometimes. He makes about four times what I do. Sure.
I don't want to weave this back and forth into a a finance situation than out of a finance situation. You're in an extremely toxic environment. You're in an unsafe environment. If we haven't crossed lines yet, we will at some point. Even the way you started the call, he told me, I haven't proven my… Just those words alone let me know this is very much a father-daughter relationship far more than it's a husband and wife creating a future together.
Right. I mean, he does control everything, not just money. If something's not done the way he wants it done, I mean, he will threaten to put me out.
Why are you- Trivial stuff like that is not being made.
Besides the vow, which, I mean, this doesn't sound like a marriage. Hearing you say this out loud just sounds like toxic roommate situation. What is he actually signing up for when he signed up for this marriage?
I I recently asked him that. He was like, Well, I married you because I love you.
Is this love?
I don't think love should feel like this.
It does not. This is control. This is power. I'm speaking on behalf of John Deloney, not on behalf of the Ramsey Network here. I take a much broader view of the word fidelity. I think you can cheat on somebody and never sleep with another person. But if you steal from somebody their dignity and their autonomy and their ability to have feelings and thoughts and a partnership in a relationship, that's not fidelity. You are cheating that person out of their life. You're cheating that person out of connection. I take a much broader view. Some people have very narrow, like you got to have sex with somebody else, otherwise it's not cheating. I have a much broader view than that. But I'm listening to my sister Jane here, and you're slowly drowning, and you know it, and your body's trying to get your attention. I guess what George and I are asking you, two guys who love our wives, and we're not perfect, man, but I'm trying to sit across the table from you and say, What are you doing? Why are you here? Why are you staying? What's the hook? You got a couple of thousand dollars.
Who cares? You're too tough and resilient and brave You'll have that paid off in no time. Something else is here. What's the hook? Why are we staying?
I don't know that I could… Some of it, I want to say that I gave my all.
I don't think you're being allowed to give your all because the person you're connected to is saying, You can take your all and flush it down the toilet. Go make the bed the right way.
Yeah. Are you scared to leave? What would be the repercussions if you said, Hey, I'm out?
I just want a stable life for my child.
This is not it. Your child is absorbing top to bottom, what love looks like, what marriage looks like, what equality looks like, absorbing it into their DNA. Now, I will never, unless somebody is being physically assaulted, I'm not going to tell somebody they need to leave their marriage. I've often told people, You need to get to where you are safe, and we may need to take a structured 30-day break. I'm going to go move in with a friend for 30 days. We're going to be very clear on when I come, when I come back, what the conditions of coming back are going to be. Again, you You got to make this choice. You're an adult.
I don't see that going over well.
Do you see your current situation going over well?
Well, I mean, I probably wouldn't have reached out to you guys.
I know. I know. I know. I hope you hear that we love you.
I'm worried about you. Neither options are easy. Let's just make that very clear. Staying is really hard, and leaving is going to be hard. But one, leads you to where you're free, and that your daughter's safe, and you're safe, and you can get to a better place financially instead of living in this prison. We just want what's best for Jane.
Yeah. I mean, I'm scared to make a decision.
Do you have people that you know and trust that can sit with you and hear the entirety of the story?
Yeah, a little bit.
Have you opened up? Do they know?
Yeah.
What do they tell you?
To leave.
If If your friend was in the situation, what would you tell her?
I mean, I never imagine myself in this situation.
No, that's what makes these abusive situations so surreal because it's like, there's no way that's happening. I've heard that over and over. There's no way this is happening to me. It may even be, in your case, happening again, right?
Yeah. I've never experienced anything quite like this, but I'm just scared I'm really just, I don't know what I mean. I know what I need to do.
Here's what I want you to do. I want you to reach out to a couple of friends, to reach out to a local counselor in your community, not to go, quote, unquote, get well right now, but you need someone that's going to walk alongside you as you have a very challenging road ahead of you, whether you stay and try to figure out how to make this thing work or you decide to create an alternative life outside of this relationship. But listen, you're worth being well.
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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Kamel, host of The Entree Leadership podcast, a fine print and co-host of Smart Money Happy Hour. Join this hour by the host of the Dr. John Deloney Show. You guessed it, America, it's Dr. John Deloney himself. But how funny would it be if it was a different host?
If it was Dan. Hey, my name is Dan. Hosting the Dr. John Deloney Show. It's like us, me and you hosting the Ramsey Show.
That's true. At least Dave took his first name off of it to make it less awkward for all of us. It's great. Well, we are here for you, America, taking your calls about life, money, mental health, relationships, career. It all blends into one blurry thing we call life. We're here to help you take the next step and help you make a breakthrough in that. So 885-825. 5225 is the number to call. Renee joins us up next in Orlando, Florida. Renee, welcome to the show.
Hi. Thank you. Just a little bit of backstory. My husband and I were in our mid-30s, and we both work in frontline positions at one of the major theme parks in the area. We also have a six-year-old son. For the last three months, we've been living in a hotel because we could no longer afford our rent in our apartment, and financially, we are just not in a place to buy a house. We've been able to secure an apartment, but the real issue is we ended up falling for, as you would say, George, the stupid tax of getting into payday loans and installment loans. Now we're $25,000 in debt, and we make $75,000 a year. But between the weekly payments on those loans and our regular bills, we're suffocating under our debt, and we don't know how to get out of it. We were just turned on to show, the Ramsey Solutions, maybe a couple of days ago from a coworker of mine. We've found hope in it so far, but we've been hearing stuff on the show like baby steps and emergency funding. We don't know what any of that stuff is. We don't know how to start.
We don't know where to go from here. We don't have anything in savings. We don't have anything for retirement. We don't have anything for our kids. We would like to have more children someday and set up a stable future and a stable home life for them eventually.
I'm so sorry to hear all about this for me. Gosh.
Are you ready?
Yes.
When George starts talking here, you have to say you're ready. What that means is you're ready to quit your jobs if you have to, you're ready to move out of the area if you have to, you're ready to change everything. Are you in?
Yes, we're ready. My husband and I, we've already started looking into schooling to get different jobs, stay in the jobs that we have right now so that we can fund the schooling that we're going to because the company we're at, they will fund higher education for free. My husband, he currently has a bachelor's in psychology and wants to go to school for a master's of social work to be a guidance counselor. I'm looking into real estate school because I don't have any desire to go to college per se and throw money into a system where there's no guarantee of me getting a job in that field.
Okay, so you're ready. George is going to walk you through it.
I love that you guys want to further your education and get out of this hole, but right now we're in survival mode. I'm not thinking about school. I'm thinking about how are we going to put food on the table and stop living in hotels and make sure our six-year-old is taken care of. A1 is to stop going into debt. Are you guys done there, or are you still having to take out these payday loans to get by?
No, we're done. We did take out some credit cards a couple of months ago, but we have since stopped using them.
Cut them up. Can you physically cut them up?
Yes. Cut them up.
And throw them away so you don't know the numbers anymore. Okay. Then we're going to pay those off completely, and we're going to close all of those accounts. We're not going to look at credit card companies and payday loans as a blessing to get us through next week. They are snakes.
Okay.
They prey on people in your situation, okay, who are working their butts off to try to make it work and want the best for their little kid and just can't make the ends meet. They prey and you. They give me and George, they give us free flights, and you pay for them. They are not your friend.
Once we're saying no to debt, let me ask the interest on these payday loans because I think it's going to make us throw up. Too much to- Is it in the hundreds?
Probably. We're spending $1,200 a month on these payday loans.
A loan. What other debt do you have?
We both have car payments, and I've looked into selling them off, and we are basically upside down on both of our cars because Again, it was a buy here, pay here place, so astronomical interest rates.
Okay. You have two car loans, you got the payday loans, you have the credit cards. What else?
The credit cards were actually not in debt on. We make those payments. Zero balance. Zero balance. Okay. We just stopped using them. But we also have medical bills in collections. I have maybe $1,200 in medical bills in collections, and my husband has $1,400 in collections.
Okay. So what we're going to do is A1 is we're not going into more debt. That's baby step zero. We're going to stop the bleeding. Your next step is to scrape together $1,000 as quickly as possible. That's going to go into a savings account. I know that sounds like, how are we going to do that? We have no margin. This is where we go. Obviously, you guys aren't living lavishly. All of your money is going to debt.
We haven't lived lavishly in a long time.
So right now, your expenses- I haven't gotten a haircut in a year. Your expenses are your four walls, is what I'm guessing. Food, utilities, housing, transportation.
Yeah, basically. Then anything my kid needs.
Our kid needs. This might mean that we are working 60, 70-hour weeks, and we're trading spots to take care of the six-year-old for a few weeks just so we can get out from being underwater.
Let's tell her what that... That means your husband gets off of work and he doesn't come home.
Yeah, that's what we've been doing. My husband's been doing double shifts six or seven days a week because he can. My My role at this theme park, they don't allow over time.
Have you talked to your employer, your leaders there, and explain what's going on?
Yeah. Could they put you up in some of their housing on the property temporarily? They don't have it. I mean, they have it for the college kids, but not for actual.
Do you have somebody who could watch your kid for you?
We will now because our closest family is three hours away. But we recently acquired an apartment, thank God, in a complex that's an hour away from work. But we actually of friends that live in the complex that would be willing to.
It might be for 30 days.
From time to time.
Well, it might be for 30 days. You ask them, tell them, Hey, we're in a mess. The moment you get off, you're going straight to deliver Uber Eats or deliver Instacart. All we're trying to do is get $1,000, get $1,000. You are going to get $1,000 in your account, and you're going to take a deep breath for the first time in a long time.
You're going to do whatever it takes, even if it's I'm staying with friends, I'm going to get plugged into a local church and do whatever you can to get there. Baby Step 2 is listing all the debt, smallest to largest, regardless of the interest rate, and attacking it with a vengeance with all the margin you can muster up, with all the income you can create, with all the expenses you can shave It might be hard at first, but when you knock out that first debt, you are going to be on cloud nine, and you're going to feel like, Oh, my gosh, we can do this thing. You're going to knock out the next debt, and the next debt. What does that do? It frees up the payments on those, now giving you a bigger snowball to keep rolling. That's called the debt snowball method. Okay. Once you do that over the next... What's the total amount of debt you guys have?
I would say between $25,000 and $30,000.
You guys can do this. Easy. You make $75,000, you got $25,000 to pay off. We've heard much smaller incomes with much bigger numbers, and they were able to do it. So I want you... The key to all of this is just believing that you can do it. And we're going to help you and walk with you by giving you one year of Financial Peace University, watch all nine lessons with your husband, and to get fired up to give you knowledge to give you motivation. We're going to give you one year of every dollar premium to get on a written plan, a budget every single week. You're tracking every expense, making every dollar stretch as far as it can go. And I want you to call us back when you're debt free and share your story because it's going to give so many other people out there hope who didn't think it was possible for them. Hang on the line. Jenna is going to pick up. We are rooting for you. We are in your corner. Please call us back if we can help in any other way. This is the Ramsey Show.
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Ramsey Solutions is a paid non-client promoter of participating pros. Learn more at ramseysolutions. Com/smartvestor. This is The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr. John Deloney. If you're a fan of this show, be sure to check out my friend Dr. John Deloney's show. It's on YouTube and podcast, and he does it right next door to the studio, and it's a real good one. If you want more for me, which is a rare small group of people, you can check out Smart Money Happy Hour, a podcast I have with Rachel Cruz. That's real fun. Then a brand new YouTube channel where I'm making, hopefully fun, entertaining personal finance videos, breaking down all the traps and trends to help you guys.
You're blown by me numbers-wise.
You're doing it, man. I think it's because I went all in. I'm a YouTuber, a true YouTuber.
Yeah, you're like a YouTube It's highly produced, a lot of pop culture and memes, less sad calls that are people in really tough situations.
I have that going for me. They're short. It's crushing, dude. You're long-winded. I'm short-winded.
You told me that I don't talk about your height on the air anymore, so I won't. Leave it alone, John.
All right, let's go to the phones. Caleb is up next in Chattanooga, Tennessee. Caleb, welcome to the show.
Hey, guys. Thanks for taking my call.
What's going on?
Well, I'm having some financial struggles with my girlfriend. Really, I'm doing all right myself. We have separate bank accounts. I've never really thought of combining them or anything, but she just hasn't been handling her finances very well, and it's putting a real strain on our relationship.
In what way? What's your involvement with her money?
She hasn't been able to help out with any of the bills. We live together.
There it is. Okay. So a lot of combined bills. She can't pay the bills?
No. She can hardly even pay her own bills.
Why?
Is she working full-time? Yes and no. She just recently relocated. Okay. That was the issue. She took a job that didn't really pan out, and so for about a month or two there, she really didn't have the income coming in.
Okay.
And On top of that, she didn't really have any money saved up to fall back on. So she was putting stuff on credit card.
Are you covering all the bills right now?
Yeah. So, brother, It's all the household bills.
Caleb, is the problem financial or is the problem you're growing increasingly—disgusting is probably a strong word—but you're growing increasingly frustrated by the character of the person you're trying to play house with?
Yeah.
Are you starting to believe, I don't know if I want to be married to someone who rolls like this?
Yeah. I mean, that's definitely, I think you hit the nail on the head right there. Okay.
Because here's the deal. One, George and I are both going to tell you, if you're not married, and we can say there's a moral issue, fine, but there's a legal issue. If you're not married, paying each other's bill, playing house, paying each other's bills, it just makes for a mess, dude. If you own a house together, the whole thing is just so complex. We would tell you, Man, if you're going to play house, get married, because at least there is some legal protection as you separate things out if things go sideways. If When you're just dating, it just turns into World War III, and IV, and V. But beyond that, man, both George and I are married. We both are all in on the woman that we are with. If there's a season where we got to do extra, there's no problem there. That doesn't seem to be your issue. That seems to be like, you're just getting increasingly frustrated that, This is who I'm dating? Come on. And she's just like, Now you got it. Is that right?
Yeah. I mean, That's definitely… You're going down the right hole there. What frustrates me is I feel a pressure. She wants our relationship to move to the next level.
What is the next level? You guys are already living together.
That would be marriage or kids. I'm not comfortable doing that with her because of her finances.
Have you told her that?
Hey, hold on. It's not because of her finances. It's because of her character. They are expressing themselves in her finances. Don't get those two screwed up because she's going to make you a bunch of promises and say, Okay, well, I'll pay my credit card off and I'll go get another job. That's not going to cure the underlying, which is I'll do whatever I want. I don't have to participate in creating a home together. Also, in her defense, you all are just making up the… It's very wishy-washy, and it's hard to anchor into wishy-washy, right?
Yeah. Yeah, I agree.
Have you had a conversation with her yet about all this?
Yeah, I have. It just ends in argument and yelling and stuff. I'm just at my width then because even as we speak, she's opening up new credit card accounts and stuff like that.
Have you said to her, Being in debt scares me to death. When you borrow money, I can't breathe. Moving forward in my home, the home that I want to raise kids in and build a family with, we are going to be people who don't borrow money. If that's the way you want to get through your world, I love that you are opting out of relationship with me. Have you said that? No, I haven't. Have a backbone, man. You got to stand up and speak your virtues out into the world because you're going to wake up three years from now, you're going to have two kids, you're going to be considering a wedding, and you are not even going to know what day it is. You're going to be so frustrated. Is that fair? Yeah. I would never... And listen to me. Don't go tell her, Hey, I called these guys on the radio. They told me to dump your butt. That's not what we're saying at all. I'm telling you, the only thing in the world you can control is your thoughts and your actions. You go be a person of character and say exactly what you need and what you feel.
Then she gets to opt into that, and you all create a life together, or she gets to opt out of that and have a bunch of shiny plastic toys. That's it. I know I made that sound real simple. I know it's way more complex than that.
But, Caleb, this is eating you alive, man. This is turning into resentment. This is turning into you feeling like you're enabling her poor decisions. If I'm in your shoes, I just go, This relationship isn't working. Our values are too dissimilar for this to work, and I wish you the best. You know what that means? Someone's got to move out, and it's going to get real awkward real quick.
Because your first thought is going to be like, I've been paying the bills. She's going to say, Bye, Felicia. Then the whole thing starts over. They hold them. Then George and I high five, and we're like, told you so. But we won't do that.
I know the next few steps are going to be real hard, but what's even harder is just sticking this out, hoping things change, and it just gets worse. Then you've got a lot of resentment. John Deloney He quotes another super smart psychologist guy who said, Choose guilt over resentment. You're going to feel guilty. You're going to go, She's already gone through a tough time. I can't believe I could do this to her. But man, it's going to eat you off.
Choose that over hating the woman that you love, right? Or hating your mother-in-law or hating your dad. Choose guilt, choose the boundaries. It goes back to... I don't think a lot of talked about it yet, but I think I've talked about a little bit. It's a secret? Well, it's just I got a new book coming in the fall. But one of the discussions comes from the great Michael Easter. It's hard. Life is hard if you are overweight by 100 pounds. It's hard. It's so hard to lose 100 pounds. You're not toggling between a one's real easy and one's real hard. My life is super simple if I'm 100 pounds overweight and my knees hurt and my back hurts and I'm exhausted. You're not choosing between a real fun time and a hard time losing weight. They're both hard. Right now, what he's choosing is nobody taught that dude how to say his needs out loud, and nobody taught him how to sit down with somebody and build a picture of what marriage could look like for us and building a life and a home together. No one's done that. Doing that will be almost impossible.
And living with somebody that you don't share their values and they are just digging a hole that expect you to clean up, that's hard, So it's not an easy... One's easy and one's hard. They're both hard. You got to just choose your hard, right? One's going to lead to freedom for you. What's the path? That's right. That's a good word. One path heads to freedom. Wishing you the best. Choose your hard, man.
That puts this hour of The Ramsey Show in the books. My thanks to all the folks in the booth keeping this show running. My co-host, Dr. John Deloney and You, America, we'll be back with you before you know it.
What up? What up? It's Dr. John Deloney from the Dr. John Deloney Show with some amazing news. The latest This episode of United States of Anxiety is available right now exclusively on the Ramsey Network app. This docuseries follows real people from my show as they embark on a 90-day journey to transform their lives, and I personally walk alongside them every step of the way. Okay, now, here's a sneak peek of what the new episode is all about. Don't forget to click the link in the show notes to download the app. What's up, Kelsey?
I've lived with crippling anxiety for as long as I can remember, how do I stop it from constantly coming up in different areas of my life?
What does crippling anxiety mean? Paint me a picture of that. All right, so you're ready to jump in?
I'm ready to jump in.
We're going to check in with Kelsey 30 days, 60 days, 90 days.
I cannot even function because I'm just crying. My mom left us when I was four. I truly felt like for a while I had no family.
She's experiencing things that really hurt a long time ago. Tell me about this boy.
He triggers me a lot. Scared of losing Paul, scared of doing the wrong thing, scared of not being enough.
It just feels like it would be exhausting to be Kelsey. It is. Whenever somebody's playing Whac-a-mole with their anxiety, when it just keeps moving, that tells me the underlying system's not okay.
How do I get my inner child out of this relationship? Because I feel like she's running the show.
One of two people that's supposed to never leave took off. How was this burden? How was this burden? The burden, that's right. To the one person who should carry it, all of it. Did you ever tell that little girl that it wasn't her fault?
I don't know what to do.
You either have to choose to let this guy love you, or you got to choose to let this guy go.