Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions. It's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Open phones this hour at 888-818. Com. 5225, multiple number one best-selling author and Ramsey personality, Rachel Cruz. My daughter is my co-host today. Open phones here. You jump in. We'll talk about your life and your money. Victor is with us in Irvine, California. Hi, Victor. How are you?

I'm doing well, Dave. How are you?

Better than I deserve. What's up?

Hi. Three years ago, me and my wife was buying a life insurance policy from our father-in-law. We both make a pretty good income, but essentially, we're three years in now. I know we've maxed out our 401k, our Roth IRA, but I was talking to my father-in-law, and he essentially said it's a good tax-free investment that we can do with our custom whole life policy. Since we already maxed out our 401k and our Roth IRA, and we even bought a house recently, we're just not sure if that's the best way moving forward to put our money in, at least with our extra money. That's our situation.

Victor, you've been married three years, you said?

Yeah, we've been married for about three years. Yeah. Okay.

All right. You're in your mid-20s, I assume.

Yeah, me and my wife are both 27, so we got married around 24. Okay.

Well, I have to give you full disclosure here, okay? I have been trashing whole life policies and people who sell for 30 years as being one of the biggest possible rip offs in the financial world. If you say Dave Ramsey to your father-in-law, his face is going to melt off.

I know. I was afraid I was bringing that up to him.

I would not suggest you do that. Uncle Dave would suggest you don't do that to yourself with your father-in-law. I don't think there's anything to be gained by that. You Basically, you have a guy in your life that loves you and that believes in these products. You have a guy on the radio that loves you and says these products are crap. Now you've got to decide as a grown man with your grown wife what you guys are going to do and then how to navigate that decision. I would never recommend that you buy something or do something be caught when you're a grown person because your parents said you had to, to keep them happy. I would not do that. But I would also not recommend that you damage your relationship with your wife's father. I would want you to be kind and honoring and really avoid an argument if I were you. I have family members, for instance, that I've I've been married for 41 years, Victor. I have family members that vote the wrong way.

Oh, my gosh.

They don't know how to vote. They pick the wrong party, and they're just dumb about it. I love them anyway. I love them anyway. We have family members that have credit cards and take out student loans. I don't create at Thanksgiving a political argument with people who aren't going to change their minds that I love. Or a financial argument. That I love, or a financial argument. I don't give financial advice to people who don't ask for it, and that includes everyone, family included. People who ask, I will tell you.

For Victor, talk through why you don't like whole life insurance as an investment.

Well, he already knows why I don't like it, don't you?

I know that you mentioned that the return over 30 years is minimal.

Yeah, it is. When you die, the money that you have in there is gone. They only pay the face amount. There is no such thing as a whole life policy that is tax-free if it actually got a rate of return. It is tax-free because the only way you can get your money out is to borrow your own money. Honey, if you go over at the bank and borrow money, they don't charge you taxes on that either. Of course, it's tax-free, but it is not a good tax dodge. It is not a good investment. It not a good product. But now you can research a bazillion things that we have said about that, and then you've still got this deep, horrible relational problem. I would recommend that you just be kind If you decide to not use this product, which, of course, is my recommendation, I would recommend you don't get into an argument with your father-in-law about it. I would just say, We've looked at it, and for us, we've decided to go another direction, and we sure hope, adult to adult, that you'll just respect our decision, even though you think I'm wrong, and I want you to respect my decision.

I have a friend who's so stupid that the other day he leased a car, and he's even dumber than that. He drove the car to my house to show it to me. But I didn't talk to him about car leases. I just went, Hey, my friend has a nice car. I'm going to be happy for him, and he's happy about his car, and he didn't ask my opinion. I'm not going to just go adult to adult. I'm going to celebrate his adult decision, even though he did a nice thing in a dumb way. You know? Right? I mean, I can still be friends with a guy.

A hundred %. I want you to be kind to your father-in-law. Yeah. I think the biggest thing it could be, I don't know your father-in-law, but if this is what he does for a living, it's a shot to the ego. If he believes in it so much, like what we teach you believe so much, then if we can't... It would be a hard thing to say they're going to go a different direction from what I not just believe, but the work I do. No, just be prepared for that. You and your wife need to have a lot of conversations, Victor.

She's really got to be in this.

Yeah, and just really dive in. And you guys have to say, Okay, what's best for us? And find the facts, because the facts is what's going to prove it to you, Victor. You both have to be on that same page and say, Okay, this is what we're doing. I totally agree with you. Keep it minimal. Just say, Hey, I think we're going to pass.

Your wife has to be able to just look at her dad and smile.

Which will be hard.

A smile and say, I love you, and we're going a different direction. Yeah. Dave, I love you.

I'm going a different direction. But I'm going a different direction.

All right. That's the thing. You're announcing something on the air?

No, but this is where the relational factor of it is just a It's going to be messy. But it's also a great practice, Victor, for you and your wife.

You've got to learn to do this anyway- That's right.over other things. Yes. Because they're- The leaving cleave is real. Otherwise, they're going to interfere when you get ready to name your first child. They're going to interfere when you get ready to buy your first house.

They all do it out of love.

No, they do it out of love. They do it out of love. Don't pet me. I don't interfere in your kid's name. No, you don't. That's why they- That would be Mimi that does that.

We don't tell our kids names until they were born.

Because you'll get a Mimi eye roll.

We hand the baby to the grandparent and we say- Don't name them Moonbeam.

It's all I request. No hippie names. It's all I request. This is the Ramsey Show. I've been doing this show for over 30 years, and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are completely preventable. Yeah.

What's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones that I'm like, Oh, it's terrible. People that call and their spouse has passed away suddenly, and they don't have life insurance. When you have to think through, how am I going to pay my bills in the middle- How am I going to eat next week? Yeah, in the middle of all that grief. It's terrible. Life insurance is the one thing, especially as a mom with three little kids, that I'm so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive. Zander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance.

It doesn't cost much because Zander shops among a gazillion different companies. It doesn't cost much. You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here. You got to say it out loud, and you got to say, I'm going to say I love to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place. The cost of stinking pizza. To get a free quote, call 800-356-4282. That's 800-356-4282, or go to zander. Com. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Linda's in Pittsburgh. Hi, Linda. Welcome to The Ramsey Show.

Hi. How are you?

Better than I deserve. What's up?

Hey, My husband and I are wondering how he can acquire his portion of the will that his mother wrote. She passed away in 2006 and wrote a will giving the family home to her children. His brother has lived in the house all of his life and still lives there.

Was the will He was evaded? The will was probated by their stepdad in 2007.

She passed away in 2006.

Okay, and so the stepdad... Wait a minute. The stepdad had nothing to do with the house in the will, right?

Yes, it was just one of those where he had the right to occupy during his lifetime.

The brother or the stepdad? The stepdad. Okay, so he had a life estate and the will Who left the property to your husband, his brother, and whatever other siblings?

Our sister who- Was the property retitled at that time?

Did Pennsylvania probate require you all to retitle it and put everybody's name on it?

The house is in Colorado. At the time of probate, it was retitled to all three siblings.

You each own a third, undivided interest. She's called, okay. Right? . Okay. Is Sister still alive?

No. She lost her battle with depression in 2017.

I'm sorry. Yes. Did she have heirs?

No, she did not.

Okay, so I would suppose that your husband and his brother are now equal owners then. You would have to seek an attorney's advice to be 100% sure, but let's play this through. That's what it sounds like. It sounds like they're now equal owners, okay? He doesn't have to do anything to acquire it. It already has his name on it. The death of his sister left half of hers to him and half of it to his brother. Now the two of them are 50/50.

Okay.

His name's on the title. If the property were sold, he would get 50%.

Okay.

Now, what are you all wanting to do?

He had, after It was almost two years after the stepfather passed away, he approached his brother about either buying him out or selling the home. He said, Absolutely not. I have no interest in selling a home, and I'm not going to buy you out.

Okay. Who lives in it?

His brother.

Okay.

He has lived in it all his life.

Okay. So he's living there for free?

Yes. Okay. He has a roommate there that pays them rent. Okay.

Here's the thing. If you want to stir it up and cause this to come to an end, because this is not a fair situation. This is unjust. Agreed?

Agreed.

Okay. Then your husband, does he have any relationship left with his brother at all?

Well, they love each other.

It's just that there's this mountain in the middle. I didn't ask that. I asked if they had a relationship.

Mountain in the middle. They what? I said they love each other. There's this mountain in the middle.

The house? Yeah. Well, it depends on how much your husband wants to invest in this. But if we want to try to save the relationship, you get on an airplane and he flies out there and he sits down with his brother and he says, Okay, you living here for free is done. I'm a 50% owner in this, and you can't live here for free anymore. You have to move out. I'm demanding that. Or we have to sell the house or you have to buy me out. Now, you decide which one you want to do. You want to move out and we rent it and we split the rents that we conflict, or do you want to buy me out or whatever? I'll give you a deal if you want to buy me out. But you sitting here and me getting nothing and you living here for free ends. I'm done. I love you. I hate what you're doing to me. It's nasty, and it's wrong, and it's unjust. He says that to him in person to his face. Then if the brother goes, Well, I'm not going to do that, you say, Yes, you are.

Because if you do not, I'm going to hire an attorney and I'm going to sue in at court to have this partnership disbanded, and the court is going to force the sale of the house to give me my half. It's going to cost me $5,000 or $10,000, and you're probably never going to speak to me again, but I'm at the point that I'm tired of you screwing me over. This is how you have to handle it if you're going to handle it. Otherwise, you just got to accept it and go on. Then you have to hire an attorney, and the judge will demand that you sell the house to liquidate the estate. They'll sell the house and the brother will get half the money and you'll get half the money. Do what?

I said liquidating the estate is selling the house, correct?

Yeah, you sell the house. Okay. Sell the house and you get your half. Or we can have the house appraised and at 80%, 80 cents on the dollar of the appraisal, I'll take my half. I'll give you a 20% discount if you want to buy me How much is the house worth, Linda?

From what we can tell, it's probably right around $400,000.

Yeah, this is just wrong. Your brother-in-law is a leach. He's a parasite. You're tired of it. That's why you called. Is your husband as tired of it as you are, or is he just going to let this go on?

Oh, no. He's as tired of it as I am. Okay. He's just a super nice guy.

If he wants to try to be super kind to his brother, he could fly out there and try to do this very calmly and just say, This is over. You're going to buy me out, or the judge is going to force the sale of the house because when I leave this conversation, if we're not in agreement, I'm going to contact an attorney and we're going to court and the house is going to be sold because you living here for free is not right. It's not fair. You've been taking advantage of me, and I can't let you do that anymore, even though I love you. That's wrong. Brothers, if you want to buy me out, I'll give you a discount on the appraisal. But I own 50%, you own 50%, and you can't live here free anymore. That's over. Fly, take a plane ticket, invest a plane ticket into the relationship, try to do it nice, and see if you can get him to move off. He may just think that my brother's a nice guy. He's never going to do He might be right talking about your husband, right?

Yes, I know.

He sees your husband as a target, and he's using it. He thinks your husband is not going to do anything. If your husband doesn't want to do anything, it's okay. I don't care. If you want to just let this go on, I'm not mad about it. It doesn't matter. But if you're going to do it, that's how you do it. I would sell it to him at a discount because if you sell it, you're going to pay expenses anyway, right?

Right.

If it's worth 400,000, I'll sell you my 200,000 at 80%, which is 160. That's a great deal. You have 30 days to get me my money. If you do not get me my money in 30 days, I am going to begin a court proceeding that's going to force the sale of the house. That's the end of the discussion, and then just go hire a lawyer and do it. It'll take a dadgum year. It'll be $10,000 out of your pocket legal fees.

Is there a way to find a reputable attorney in Colorado? Sure. That was our other thing. It's like, how do you find one there without- Call one of our real estate-endorsed local providers.

Jump on the line at Ramsey and find the real estate-endorsed local providers. Tell me you need a good real estate attorney.

Okay.

They'll I'll give you a recommendation. That's the only way. You got to have somebody that you trust, and these are high octane real estate agents that we endorse, and they'll know somebody that's a quality attorney that can litigate this. But I really wouldn't… It may be that when you hire the attorney and you spend $500 and he decides to send a letter to the brother, that that wakes the brother up, and then the brother does it. Because the brother is probably… He's been living this way a long time. He's probably not going to take the first. He's not going to believe your husband that he's going to do anything because he's never done anything. So he's suddenly a man of action. That's going to be shocking to the brother. This is the Ramsey Show. Remember the good old days of the internet before it was a privacy nightmare filled with spammers, scammers, hackers, and fraudsters? Simpler times. Now, I don't have a time machine, but I do have the next best thing. Delete me. Think of delete me as your online bodyguard, helping to protect you from the risks of online scams and data breaches.

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Hi, Ashley. How are you?

Hey, Dave. Oh, my gosh. I'm so excited to talk to you guys.

You, too. What's up, kiddo?

My husband and I are looking into maybe starting a new business. We are totally debt-free with a paid-for house. We have one year of emergency funds saved up. Wow. Nice. We've been following you and doing you for seven years since we got Married, and so we just got debt-free not too long ago and paid our house off about a month ago.

Oh, wow. Congratulations, Ashley.

Way to go. Yes. Thank you. I love food. I love making food. People really seem to respond well, and I post things on Facebook, sharing things, and they have actually come to us wanting us to maybe start a food truck or a cafe of some kind. We talked to our CPA, and he was leaning more towards a food truck. He said the overhead was less. They were less likely to not go under because of all the overhead. But my concern with the food truck, we have been looking into them, is, of course, it would still Is it considered a depreciating asset, correct? Even if we paid cash and saved up for it, it's still depreciating versus a brick and mortar. I guess if we're owning, if we don't own it, we're paying rent. I just didn't know if you were winged one way or the other.

I would not decide my business model based on either one of those things or based on a CPA's advice. Okay. You need to decide your business model on what your dream is. What do you want to operate? Do you want to operate a food truck? Do you want to operate a brick and mortar? Then let's figure out how to pay for it and how to make the money, how to make it profitable.

Got you.

Is there another in between step? Start catering catering as a start, and it starts to build up your customer base from catering. I know several excellent chefs that have big operations now that started as catering.

Got you. What's your end goal, Ashley? Do you want to be a- A restaurant owner? Yeah. Do you want to... Is there a big dream, or is it more just a passion of yours, and you love it, and it's something to do on the side that's really fun?

I've always wanted to be more of a chef, like the food in And I think that part of it is more like my dream and passion. My husband was in the food industry for a while, and he actually was the business side of it. As far as that, I think the brick and mortar, having a small café, I'm thinking something small scale of the cracker barrel. I'd love to have a little store inside and be able to combine healthy, like whole food, plant-based foods with more regular foods, like a blend of the two. My husband eats burgers and fries and steak.

I think the only reason you're considering a food truck is it doesn't sound congruent with this dream.

Got you.

The cafe sounds congruent with the dream.

It does, yeah. Now that you're talking me through that, it does, yeah.

It just feels like it the way you say it out loud. Here's the thing. Your CPA is right about one thing. Restaurants have a higher failure rate than almost any other business category. Really? Yeah. You've got to really lean in on the business operations part, not just the food quality. If you make the best and healthiest food on the planet and no one is there, this isn't going to work. Right. There's the marketing and the operations of this. What I would do is I probably would start as a catering operation and build a customer base and then look for a A place to lease, don't buy a piece of real estate, and build you out a little restaurant, and your leasehold improvements that you put in there will be a depreciating asset, too.

But let me… But, Ashley, Tell me if I'm wrong, but this could be hundreds of thousands of dollars. This isn't just a little thing. I wonder if that's why the CPA was like, Yeah, a food truck is way less expensive to get something going.

Not necessarily. If you found a location that the building was there and someone else had something in there.

Had the kitchen in there.

Some of the commercial kitchen items are in there. You go in and renovate, you might spend less than a food truck to renovate it. It's possible to upgrade it, get the fresh coat of paint, and That'll work. You could start with a food truck if you want to. But the question is just what you want to do for the next five years of your life. I think you want to cook, and I think he wants to run a restaurant. That doesn't sound like a food truck to me. That's a different gig.

It's a different feel. Even Ashley, we've been to a few places over the last, probably two or three years, people's homes for events, and they have someone come in and cook. The chef guy brings his card around. He's like, Next time you guys have a party, I can do a dinner for eight of your friends, or whatever it is. I'm like, If you get the right people in a room that taste your food, that then spread the There's ways to do it. The catering, if that's what you were meaning. But even coming in and cooking for friends and having them bring friends. You know what I mean? You can start small just to get the word out about what you're doing because it sounds great. But also, I just know It's just a big investment. It's a hard business. When you hear brick and mortar, you're going to be having staff. If there's not already a kitchen, how much those appliances cost? It's a lot. Not that it can't be done, Ashley, but it's a feat to take on. It's you guys really brainstorming love.

You can drop $100,000 in a truck, and you can drop $100,000 into your leasehold improvements, either one, real quickly. Make sure you've got the cash, and that way, then the only overhead you've got is your lease and your payroll and your food cost.

I just know there's like the... I mean, I just can think of probably three or four food trucks that started as food trucks that ended up becoming restaurants because their brand was so big here in Nashville that they opened up a restaurant because of that. I'm just wondering, that's It's not a stair-stepping way.

It can be, but then you either continue to operate both or you've got this extra truck left over. The question is what she wants to do. I'm with you on the idea of starting some chefing in home stuff. We were at a high-end charity event your mom and I the other day, and the food was incredible. She collects the chef's card, and he's helping us with the family reunion that's coming up. I mean, that's how you get the business out. But you can build a clientele based on that. Then we have friends that are chefs that have doing in-home stuff, and if they ever open something, we'd be a customer because we're a customer now, that thing. Same thing with this guy. That's a process there that you can go through. Pick up the book The E-Myth by Gerber and read that. He talks a lot about learning to work on your your business, not just in your business. Because being a chef is one of the pieces you have to do to operate a successful restaurant. The other pieces are business orientation that your husband has, apparently. I I would lean into all of that.

I really, really would. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Thank you for listening out there, America. We appreciate you. If you are new to the Ramsey show and you're trying to figure out what in the world are we talking about? That snowballs, baby steps. What does all these words, all this vernacular mean? Well, you can go to ramseysolutions. Com and click on the Get Started button, the Get Started button. It is a free process to help you figure out what you're looking for in this Ramsey journey and how we can best serve you on this Ramsey journey, where you are now and what your next steps are, all those kinds of things. Click Get Started at ramsey solutions. Com, and we'll get you moving. You become acquainted with the baby steps and the debt snowball and all those kinds of things. If you just keep listening to show. We'll keep talking about it, and you'll start to understand what we're dealing with, and you'll look it up, and you'll watch a YouTube video, or some people go through. If you want to do the best thing you can do, go through Financial Peace University, and that will line you up and get you on the fast track to doing everything and getting control of your money and changing everything.

All of that to say that we're here to help you. Check it out at ramsey solutions. Com. Hey, guys. I've I've never done this before, but I'm partnering with a nutrition company, Field of Greens. Each fruit and vegetable in Field of Greens is selected by doctors to support heart, liver, and kidney health, plus metabolism for healthy weight. Your doctor will notice your improved health or Field of Greens will give you your money back. I can get behind a promise like that. Go to fieldofreens. Com/ramsey and get 15% off with promo code Ramsey. Fieldofreens. Com/ramsey. Student loan debt is an epidemic, a pandemic, and defaulting on debt makes you feel even worse. But our question of the day sponsor, Why Refind? Yrefinances defaulted private student loans and builds a custom loan based on your ability to pay. You'll have a payment you can afford with a low fixed interest rate that you couldn't get anywhere else. Go to whyrefinance. Com refy. Com today/ramsey. That's the letter Y-R-E-F-Y. Com/ramsey. Might not be in all states.

Today's question comes from Carter in New Hampshire. He says, My wife and I are avid listeners, but we don't share same views financially. I'm an analyzer when it comes to finances, and it annoys her to no end. I have a two-year emergency fund, and our home is paid off. Together, we earn $200,000 a year. She likes to spend and wants me to cosign on a vehicle that's $80,000. She has $10,000 in credit card debt, and she pays $15,000 each year for private school for our kids. If I mention anything about money, I'm the one who's wrong. I wish I could say that we pay for vacations, recreational toys, and trips, but these funds come from my checking account, and she gets mad when I say that I pay for them. Is it okay to have an account together to pay bills in separate for spending accounts? I think you guys are disjointed completely when it comes to money. I mean, obviously, this is like a pick and choose what we want to do together and what we don't. I think the goal here is that you are a unified team with all of it, all of it together.

The spending, the saving, where your kids are going to college or to school, what cars you guys buy, that you are in agreement together in those things. She's a spender, so you guys are in a great position. You have no debt. You have great emergency fund. If she wants to go spend a little, you can't be crazy and be like, No, you can't spend anything. You sound a little bit crazy to a degree, Carter, that she just wants a little bit of freedom. But then she, on the other end, is not what it sounds $80,000 car debt. And credit card debt. That's crazy. The same value system, though, is what's not being played out. I think that's the issue, is that you guys are functioning not on the same value system, and so it's looking like a mess like this. The accounts, that doesn't fix It's not going to fix it.

I don't think they have a money problem.

I think they have a marriage problem. Right, but that's the problem is people think, Is it okay if we just have separate accounts? What that does is it sweeps the one issue that you actually need to talk about under the rug. It doesn't fix it. It actually use to alienate you guys from each other. So no, Carter, I would not do these separate accounts. I would force you guys to work out of one account because to your point, it's actually going to reveal other issues that are actually going on in your marriage.

Yeah. And I'm the one that's wrong. She gets mad. If you just change out the subject and it wasn't money and you were talking about something else and she acted that way or you acted that way, you overanalyzed everything, which is what you're doing for sure. And on the other hand, then she's acting like a princess and stomping her foot with her little red face, till I get what I want. And if you don't let me have what I want, then you're wrong. This is a marriage problem. You guys desperately need to sit down with someone. Because here's the problem. The probability that you have a high quality marriage going forward using this system is close to zero. You may or may not get divorced later, but you're definitely not having fun in your relationship. The probability that you build wealth with both of you pulling at each other the whole time instead of pulling the wagon? No, almost zero. One of the things we found when we studied wealthy people is the data tells us that they work together with their spouse. They're unified in their goals. They're aiming at the same target and pulling the trigger together.

That's what we're You can't drag along a princess. She can't drag along someone who overanalyzes everything and has no fun left anywhere in life because you squeeze every dollar until George Washington screams. No, you got to have something in here. We got to have some flow to this, some relationship to this that's not in here. This desperately screams of a need for marriage counseling to me.

For sure.

Open phones at 8, 825, 5225. Bo is with us in Las Vegas. Hi, Bo. How are you?

I'm doing good. Can you hear me?

Absolutely. What's up?

I wanted to know if I can keep using my credit card, and I know you're probably going to say no, but I'm going to try anyway.

You're right. No.

Do your convincing, Bo.

Give it your best shot, Bo.

All right. This is a unique situation. I've never heard it on your show, and I've been only listening for five months. Okay. I have one credit card. I have a medical condition, and my medication is insanely expensive, and I can't afford it until I hit my deductible, which my insurance will cover, but my deductible is $13,000. The pharmaceutical company that makes it will reimburse me for it. I've been doing this for two years. And so I use the credit card and I get cash back back for the… And then they reimburse me in a few days. Is that something that I would keep it for?

Why don't you just pay cash? Why don't you pay cash?

I can. Why? I have, but it's really expensive.

Oh, good. We'll pay cash.

And then you still get reimbursed.

It's really expensive either way, dude. You're out the money either way, right?

Yeah, but I get it. The money back from a pharmaceutical company.

Okay, and so you use your cash, and then you get your cash right back.

I can do that, but I get another 300 bucks.

Oh, whoopty-doubty. Okay. You're going to sell your financial soul for 300 bucks? Well, it's- I never met a millionaire who said, You know, Dave, I made all my money on my airline miles.

It's not airline miles.

I know. It's 300 bucks. 300 bucks has never created a millionaire. Okay. Biscuit money.

I agree. I just don't make a lot of money, so it's really- Well, then that's a...

If $300 is a lot of money, then that's a different problem, isn't it? You have an income problem then.

Yeah, I don't think I'm going to make more money. Why? It's not because I'm lazy. I'm not really worth a lot of money.

Why?

Society would say I lack intelligence or education.

They're different. You don't lack You've carried on a very clear conversation in a high pressure situation. You don't lack intelligence. You've done a good job in this banter that we've had here, which was fun. You're not lacking in intelligence. You might not have education. That doesn't mean you're not able to make a living. What do you make?

I make 26, 35 an hour.

Okay. That's not super bad. You were getting 40 hours.

No, I worked Well, it varies, but seasonally, I work between 30 and 45 hours a week. It depends on what time of year.

What do you do?

I work for a distribution center. I I operate... The simplest way I could say it is I manage robots. Okay.

Are you 24? I make sure that they do their job. Are you 24?

No, I'm 42.

I'm sorry? 42. 42. Okay. Here's the deal. What I would do if I were you is I would say, Hey, I can be anything I want to be. What are the steps to being one of those? I could make twice as much money being one of those. I want to go start working towards being one of those. It could be an apprentice program, it could be a certification program, it could be a couple of classes at the local community college. I don't know. But you're capable of doing all of those things. And so your issue is that you need to increase your income and have some career goals. We'll help you with that. I'm going to give you Ken Coleman's book, Find the Work You're Wired to Do. I want to get the title right, so I'll turn around and looked at it. It's got in at the Get to Clear assessment. I don't have to look at it because we've had over 100,000 people take this assessment, and it'll help you get clear on what your skills are. I want you to go work on that, Bo, to wear $300, to where you're no longer Don't be in a place where you think $300 changes your life.

Don't be in a place where you think $300 changes your life. You want to be in a better place than that. Then you don't fall into the traps of these stinking banks and these stinking credit card companies, and you get sucked in thinking they're actually there to help you. They're not. Problem solved. Hang on. We'll give that to you as our gift. This is The Ramsey Show.

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. The phone number here is 888-825-5225. Rachel Cruz, multiple number one best-selling author, Ramsey personality, co-host of the Smart Money Happy Hour, and my daughter is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Nicole is in Salt Lake City. Hey, Nicole, how are you?

Hi, I'm good. How are you?

Better than I deserve. What's up?

Well, I'm so grateful to actually get to speak to both of you, especially another working mom. I'm concerned with whether or not I would be harming my family's financial future if I take an extended maternity leave with my second child. I didn't take that with my first child, and I've had a lot of regret about that. My husband and I are considering whether or not I could take a year or two off of work. If I did, we wouldn't be able to as much toward our debt snowball as we have. We've paid off about $217,000 since 2020. Oh my gosh.

What are you doing, Nicole?

I'm an attorney.

What do you make?

Net take home for both of us- No, I said, what do you make? I think my net take home is 120.

What about your husband?

His is about maybe 60, I think. No, it was 70 last year. His net was 70.

What's he do?

He owns some car washes. Okay.

You're going to cut your income by 60, 55%?

Yes. Okay. Then we would still have $86,000 of my student loan left. It's our only debt besides our mortgage that we still have left to pay on, but we've been paying on it. But it's going to set us back. We'll be able to make the minimum payments and maybe a little bit more with distributions, but maybe inconsistently. I guess I'm concerned because we started a family later in life. We'll both be in our early '40s by the time I wanted to go back to work. Obviously, having that debt and then having not invested that long, I'm just concerned this is going to cause harm long term.

I want to relieve you from that, Nicole. I don't think it's harm long term. I think, yeah, your goals are going to shift if your family goals shift, and that's a reality. But it's not like you're putting your family in massive danger here. I have some other ideas that we can talk through here in a second. But so many women feel this, and especially since you're the breadwinner, that I have to be the one to save everything, and it's up to me, and I'm going to put my family in danger. This language that you're using, it's very heavy. What I would say is that you're putting more pressure on yourself than needs to be there. Yes, getting out of debt is a huge goal, and it's one that I want you guys to work towards and one that you've made such significant progress to. But like we said the last hour of the show, we talked so much about how debt is a tool to create, or I'm sorry, money is a tool to create a life that you love. You guys have to look at your family unit, and your family is a priority, Nicole.

I mean, your family is one that you're like, Okay, what is best for us right now? And as a mom, I get it. I pulled back from work after my third because I was like, I just want to be home more. And so All of that is real. Now, does that mean we want to stop everything you guys have been doing and the progress you've made? No, I wouldn't suggest that either. And so I think a wonderful middle ground, Nicole, for you is to have... Because an attorney, I'm like, that is such a stressful job and the hours you work. I mean, I can't even imagine. So what does life look like if Nicole stays home and her career shifts and your career looks different for a year or two? What does that look like? And so I would start having that conversation of I don't know this world, Nicole, so you probably can direct me better in this conversation from this point on in this sense. But is there work to be done that you could do, outsource your skills at some level, some degree, that is significantly less stress and less time than what you've been doing and still be bringing in some flow?

To offset the student loans that are there because of law school. Let's use the law degree to clean up the law degree mess.

But does your life have to look like it?

Maybe not in a traditional attorney setting, what Rachel's saying. Rachel says she pulled back. She pulled back, she pulled back. But she's not out of the saddle either. Her social footprint has grown. She's still doing appearances. She's still on this show, still launched a number one best-selling kids book a few months ago, and did all of that on less than a full-time hour slate.

In an office, yeah.

Correct. Yeah. In the office. But we just shifted around what we're doing with her brand and how we're doing that for a season here while the little one is there.

For you, that's what I would present to What does that shift look like? Because there's a level of responsibility that you guys have financially that you have to fulfill. You have to make these payments and getting out of debt, as you know, lifts so many burdens. If you didn't have this debt, then you could have the option to stay home full-time if you wanted. But I do think, Nicole, that there's something there that there still can be money to be brought in. I think you have to think creatively, and that's probably what I would encourage you to do, to have something. Then he, honestly, Nicole, will probably I have to step up his game. If you guys keep this momentum with paying off debt, I just don't want you to think it's an all or nothing. Things can shift.

And harm is not the right word. Rachel's right. That's an overstated word, a mom guilt word in this because you guys can't win. You get mom guilt if you're at home because you feel like you should be at work. If you're at work, you get mom guilt because you feel like you should be at home. I mean, it's a no win. There's always some more on either side of the coin telling you you be doing the other one, right? We're not going to be either one of those, but probably some a change, a hybrid approach, because there's a part of me that says, okay, the You went to all the trouble and the expense and the debt to be a lawyer, to go cold turkey doing nothing with that, while you've still got $80,000 of it outstanding, that doesn't feel right either. Okay? But also not addressing this need that you've got, this desire you've got to be at home, doesn't feel right. I think somewhere in there along Rachel's suggestion is the proper answer. But I'm with Rachel, I want to take the guilt thing of, are you doing irreparable harm? No, you're not doing irreparable harm.

You just got to think through, I spent a lot of who I am in money, time, debt, effort, brainpower to be a lawyer and to cut that off completely, even for just two years, feels pretty extreme.

Yeah, and Nicole, and everyone's obviously created so differently, but considering what you've done, and as you listed all that, Dave, I was thinking, you might look up in six months and be like, Oh, my gosh, I'm crazy. I'm not happy because I need some output. You may find that in you, how you're wired, you're going to want to do something as well. That's a possibility, too. You're doing great, Nicole. You're doing so good.

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Hey, guys, what's up? It's Jade.

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Com/livestream and sign up today. Rachel Cruz. Ramsey Personality is my co-host today. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. This is Common Sense for your Dollars and Sense, a concept Congress can't grasp. It's called The Ramsey Show. Thank you for being with us. The number is 828-824. 5225. Aaron is with us in Las Vegas. Hi, Aaron. How are you? Good, guys.

Thanks so much for having me.

I really appreciate it. Sure. Our pleasure. How can we help? Well, my wife and I love the show.

We've gone through FPU We're in Baby Step 6 right now, so we're super excited about that.

But a couple of months ago, our situation changed.

I'm currently in the process of being diagnosed with a very rare form of muscular dystrophy. Just the reason why I say in the process, I've had a genetic test that's a possible match.

My doctor is 90 % sure, and I've done a biopsy, but next week I actually find out the results of the biopsy. We've obviously done the baby steps. We're in a good situation that way, but I guess my question is, what insurance and what type of long term planning would you I'm interested in this, and I guess, am I too late to get to the party to get insurance in this situation now? Life insurance?

Yes.

Yes, you're too late to the party. Okay. All right. Sorry. Then how you plan for it would be based on... I don't know anything about muscular dystrophy in this millennial. I remember the telethon when I was a kid or something, and that was when the dinosaurs were on the Earth, and I don't know what this prognosis means for you. Do you? What do you understand so far? I know it's very rare. There's less than a thousand people in the US that have what I have. I'm fully functional right now, but it's possible in the next 10 to 15 years, I could be in a wheelchair and I could lose a breathing function, so I'd have to have a respiratory device.

Aaron, I'm so sorry. Oh, wow.

Thank you. Then following that stage, it probably doesn't end well, I'm guessing. It's very possible, yes. It continues to deteriorate, or does it plateau off with the breathing device? It can plateau, but more than likely, it will deteriorate from there. How old are you? I'm 46. Okay. We're talking about 60 years old, give or take. Exactly. Okay. I'm sorry, man. It's hard to face something like that. Do you guys have kids? No, we did not.

How's your wife?

She's so supportive.

Very, very, very awesome.

Yeah, she's great.

Well, I think one of the things I'll tell you from working with families, I don't know anything about the medical world, except that they call it practicing medicine for a reason. They're practicing. In other words, things change and extra opinions and continuing to study and continuing to argue with the What's in front of you is good, not in a denial way, but just not accept that one guy says, Okay, you're going to be gone in six months. You go, Well, maybe not. Maybe I'm going to try this, and so on. You're going to become an expert on this, dad, blame it, to be an advocate for yourself. I'm going to tell you to continue to do that and don't just accept one thing and walk away. I don't think you were going to anyway. But second, third, fourth, and later on, eighth opinions, just keep working the problem. Now, while you're doing that, there is... I have perceived in others, not myself. I've not experienced this. Just like someone calls me up and says, I've got a stage 4 cancer diagnosis, and they're giving me four months to live. That call has come in here over the years several times, or I've actually sat with people in a room where they were me this stuff.

They already have processed the emotions and now are going, Okay, what the flip do I do? That's why you're calling. In that case, what I found is that facts are your friends. There is a tremendous piece that comes from having your spiritual house in order, number one, but then number two, getting your house in order financially. You say, Okay, if this unfolds, I got about this many years, and we're talking wheelchair, and then I got about this many years on a breathing device, and if it doesn't stop deteriorating, I've got this many years. Okay, based on that, I'm going to lay out a plan. Then if I get a different result, I'll change the plan. But if you go ahead and make sure, Okay, I got a will in place. I'm going to investigate and find out and make sure Dave's right about life insurance. I'm going to say, This is our wealth building We're going to continue to pay off the house. We're going to do this and this and this. The more detail, it sounds ridiculous, but the more detail you say, given this diagnosis, this is the exact plan. Once Are there details in place, it gives you just a release, a sense of peace.

But having the medical be chaotic and the financial future being chaotic simultaneously is almost more than some folk can bear. I'm going to encourage you to continue the journey you started with this phone call, and that is really detail out exactly what is your version of the baby steps facing this rare form of muscular dystrophy, because it's almost chronic in that it's not a one-year or two-year diagnosis. It's a 15-year or 20-year diagnosis. Today it is anyway. It may change next week, and it may change for the better next week. Facts are your friends. Details in the financial arena are not you being cold. They're giving your wife peace and you peace, and then you can turn back around and concentrate on being well. Does that make any sense at all?

No, it totally does. Just hearing about this, we found out in March, and like you said, it's about emotionally trying to register and then trying to figure out what the facts are.

I feel like we're at that place right now, and now I'm going, Oh, wait, I have to plan about the future now and figure that out, which is why, like you said, I called. Yeah, and it's a different future than it was in March. Truthfully, there may be a treatment that comes a year from now. Then the thing changes again because you're not going to stop studying this. You're living it.

You know? Erin, do you guys know medical bills? Have they given you guys any direction? Like your insurance, do you guys know financially at all what the costs will be at certain stages of this?

We do not. It's because it's- So rare.

So rare. It's just being discovered thing. I'm in a research study right now. It's putting me in long to hopefully take care of some of the medical bills, but also figure to look this thing out and how it does in the long term. Well, I could tell you this. Continuing a big old pile of money in your 401k and a paid-for house is still going to help the situation. That part didn't really change, right? Right. If you live with this deterioration and disability, or you don't, and you leave her with the situation, either way, a big old pile Money in a paid-for house ain't going to be bad, right? True. We could keep working four and six. The only question is in between, like Rachel saying, do we need to pile up some cash for interim treatments or we're going to fly to check a Savakia because there's a treatment there that's not covered by insurance? Heck, I'm going, man. Heck, we're paying off the house. Get on an airplane. Let's go. We'll redistribute that cash in a different way out of the budget. Of course, you're going to anticipate your income changing potentially as well as you go along.

All of that goes with it. But just keep adjusting the plan, but the more detail the plan is, the more piece she's going to have, you're going to have, and Then you can turn your energy around to fighting the disease instead of fighting the money. That's what people that are with a cancer diagnosis are doing as well. So, man, I'm so sorry. And Erin, we're here for you. We're not going anywhere. If you need something, you call anytime and tell your wife to call if you, for some reason, aren't able to get on the phone. We'll help any way we can. Thanks for calling, man. I'm sorry.

Hey, what's going on? Dr. John Deloney here.

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Com/getaway to get your tickets. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, is my co-host today in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt free stage. Stephanie is with us. Hi, Stephanie. How are you?

Hi, I'm good. David and Rachel, how are you both?

We're honored to have you. Where do you live?

I am about 25 minutes away from Massachusetts.

Awesome. How much debt have you paid off?

About $105,000.

Way to go, kiddo. Excellent. How long did this take you?

Three years and eight months.

Wow. And your range of income during that time?

I started at about $60,000, and I ended at $115,000.

Excellent. What do you do for a living?

I work for a hospital. I'm a manager in IT. Good for you.

Okay, cool. What debt was the $105,000?

It was everything, Dave. About $60 was medical. I had $3,100 in a car loan, $6,200 in personal loan, $7,000 in credit card debt, and the biggest was my student loans. It was about $88,000.

Wow. Okay, very Cool. Okay, tell us your story. What happened three years and eight months ago that put you on this journey?

I've been living with debt since I was 18. From the first time I got a credit card, I just-How old are you now? Thirty-six. Okay. It took me 18 years to here. But so 2018, like I said, I'd been struggling for many years. I'd really have been praying and asking God to really help me because I never knew how to budget, just was out of control, didn't know what to do. September 2018, I was home on maternity leave. I had my third child, and I was actually searching for sermons, really, to watch on YouTube. Then in my feed, this couple video came up, and the title was Dave Ramsey, Ruined Our Lives. I never saw the couple before, never watched them ever, and I never heard your name. But it was a pretty good-looking couple, sharp couple, so I decided to watch. They proceeded to say how from the time they started your program, they were getting out of debt. I mean, selling things left and right, living on rice and beans, not going out, just making sacrifices to live the life that they wanted to live, ultimately. I believe it was divine connection. I believe God led me to that video.

As I was watching, I said, Wow, they can do it. I can do it, too. I started searching for you on YouTube. At that time, I just saw a lot of the short videos, the 7-10 minute clips. I didn't know you had a show, but I just started digging into those, learned about the seven baby steps. I learned about just what you teach, what you practice, and it all made sense. Like I said, I was on maternity leave, so I was making half of my income at the time because it was just using my vacation time to try and spread the time out. I downloaded the EveryDollars app, and I couldn't really start the budget until October. That's when I went back to work. But I had the budget in place. I listened to Rachel Cruz and all the material that you guys put out there and tried to do my budget as best I could. Once I went back to work in October, my budget was set and I pretty much hit the ground running. I initially started out, I was picking up Instacart shifts, even with sometimes my little kids in the car, my daughter, I would work full-time during the day, and I picked up a temp agency job at the evening.

We were home. It was during COVID. So kids running around in the around, but I'm doing a temp agency job. I also delivered pizza for Domino's a short while. Fast forward to 2020, December 2020, I interviewed and got a position at another hospital, so that jumped me up in my pay about $20,000. The next year, 2021, about November, I got a promotion to manager, and that jumped me up as well. That has been my journey through 2018 to now. Wow.

He worked your tail off, kiddo.

I was. You know what? I believed in the vision. I believed what you taught. From that first paying off that first credit card, just seeing how free, how a little bit of space place in my budget. I said, Wow, this really works. I was determined, regardless of what people said, I was determined that I was going to do it, not just for myself and my kids, to leave a legacy. That's really why I kept going.

Wow. Congratulations Patience. That's a big- Very proud of you.

That's a big deal. We get all different types of debt-free screams on the stage, and we celebrate them all. But you doing this with little ones over three years, working all these shifts, you've done the hard work. You've done it. Congratulations. Thank you. Incredible.

Absolutely incredible. That's beautiful. What do you tell people the secret to getting out of debt is? It sounds like seven extra jobs.

Well, in perseverance, but I think the biggest thing is a mindset change. People that I talk to and let them share my journey with, they're happy for me. But a lot of what I hear is you'll never be out of debt. You're always going to have debt. By soaking myself into your show, listening, watching all the debt-free screams that have come across the stage, watching the everyday millionaire, listening to all these people that have done it and they live debt-free, it is possible. I think it requires a mindset shift, being around different people, listening, but realizing that it is possible, but also perseverance. I mean, regardless of what comes. I mean, I had life happen during those three and eight months. But it's perseverance, being willing to persevere through and trusting God in the process. Because once you've committed to it, he will see you through the end.

Amen. Amen. Well done. Very, very, very well done. Who are your biggest cheerleaders?

I would say a little bit of everybody. My mom is here, my family, they all supported me through this journey. My coworkers at work, at the time, when I could pick up on call shifts, they would know I was on this journey, and so they would help me out, send me there on call shifts. But I think the biggest one is my oldest daughter. During COVID, she was my babysitter. When I had to pick up the shifts, she was my babysitter, and she sacrificed a lot, but she knew what what we were after. She knew the reason why we sacrificed, and she was willing to delay gratification for a season so that we could be here today and become debt-free. I would say she's my biggest out of everyone, my biggest supporter, my biggest cheerleader a liter.

Was it worth it?

Absolutely.

How does it feel to be free?

Amazing. I cash flow this trip here. It wasn't cheap, but I didn't stress the money's there. It's absolutely amazing. I I wouldn't trade anything for the world. I would do it again if I had to.

You don't have any payments. That's the beauty of making $1,500, $1,500, $1,500, $1,000 a year and the ability to pick up and do whatever you need to do because you're proving that to yourself and to your kids. Absolutely. So your kids got to witness a warrior princess. That's beautiful. Amen. You got after it, kiddo. You really got after it. Well done. Amen. Very, very well done. Congratulations.

You're a good mom.

Absolutely. You're a good mom. We got a copy of Baby Steps Millionaires for you. That is definitely the next chapter in your story. You are on your way. Thank you. A copy of the Total Money makeover for you to give away to someone who was inspired by your story that you run into because I'm sure you've talked about it some. Of course, Financial Peace University, we want you to go through the class. We just launched the new videos, the best class we've ever had at Financial Peace right now available. So one year membership will give you that as well. If you've been through it and you want to give it away, that's fine. We're happy to have you pass it on however you want to do it. It's very, very good. All right, bring the kiddos up and tell us their names and ages.

I have Sonaya. Sonaya is 15 years old. Emanuela, she is five, and my youngest one, Atara, she's three years old.

All right. Love it. Beautiful. Very, very, very well done. All right, Stephanie from Boston, Mass, three years and eight months to pay off 105,063 jobs. I'm exaggerating a tiny bit, but not much. Some help from the teenage daughter. That's just beautiful. To $115,000 income during that time. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream.

Three, two, one. We're debt-free.

Yeah. Well done. Oh, man.

She made me tear up.

She gets it. I got the samples. She gets it, and she pushed it through. That's beautiful. Very, very well done. That lady is a force of nature right there, man. That's what you have to do. She said it beautifully. What's it take? It takes a mindset change.

I know. You know it's not forever.

It's a mindset change.

But in those moments, in those nights, it's hard to leave, and she still did.

I'm going to live like no one else so that later I can live and give like no one else. This is the Ramsey Show. Between Christmas shopping and holiday get-togethers, investing might be the last thing on your mind, but there are certain things you might need to take care of before the year ends, and you don't have to do it alone. The SmartVestor program can connect you with a financial advisor near you. Whether you've got questions about retirement planning, required distributions, or anything in between, a SmartVestor Pro will walk you through what you need to know. Head to ramsey solutions. Com/smartvestor to get connected. Ramsey Solutions is a paid non-client promoter of participating pros. Learn more at ramsey solutions. Com com/smartinvestor. The best way to make the most of your money is to make your money do what you wanted to do instead of wondering where it went. Tell your money what to do instead of wondering where it went. Most people in this life live reactively. But people who are proactive, who happen two things intentionally, are the ones that we call successful people. In the wealth Building World, if you're going to happen to your money, you do that with a budget.

Every dollar is the budget that will help you do it. It's the app that's free in the App Store and Google Play. Download every dollar, get the premium version while you're at it, and start working with your spouse, working the baby steps, working paycheck planning. There's all kinds of tools inside this thing. They're going to help you do the Ramsey system more efficiently, and it really sets it up to win. Go everydollar. Com or download the Every Dollar app for free in the App Store or Google Play today. Dorothy is with us in Fort Myers, Florida. Hi, Dorothy. How are you?

Hi, David. Hi, Rachel. Thank you for taking my call. I'm in Naples, just so you know. Okay, cool.

How can we help today?

Well, I, unfortunately, am a widow. My husband committed suicide last year. Oh, my gosh.

Sorry.

I would really appreciate It's appreciated if you'd let me borrow your magoo glasses to see my way through my mess.

I'm so sorry. Wow.

Me too. It was certainly something that we weren't expecting. Now I have a lot of debt and I want to get rid of it. I have some very specific questions for you. One of them is I have an IRA that has some money in it that was It's part of his… You know what the drop is? Have you heard of that term?

How much is in the IRA?

It's not a lot. It's about 40 grand.

About 40K.

It's not invested in anything that's earning us and earning me anything.

How old are you?

I'm 57.

Okay. What is your career?

I don't have one. My husband wanted me to be his playmate when he retired. We had a granddaughter who was born with some complications, and so I stopped working to help get her through that. He just did want me to go back to work, so I didn't. We played and we accumulated a lot of stuff. I know I can sell that stuff to get into a much better financial situation. It's just taken some time to sort through. Sorry. To sort through everything. I wasn't expecting to get emotional. To sort through everything and get some clarity in all of it. I know I need to get a job. I do know that. I want one, and I've already started looking for one, and it's hard not knowing what to do because I have no technical skills whatsoever because I've been out of work for so long. I'm a personal person, so I know customer service and things of that nature I should do pretty well at. I plan on doing that right away, and I plan on selling several assets right away. It's just taking me some time to get there. I understand. I already downloaded your Every Dollar app, and so I'm working with that right now.

What is the most pressing thing you have today that we can help you with?

Well, I still have our two trucks that I have payments on, and I have some credit card debt. That was one of the questions I wanted to ask you was- Do you have any cash other than this 40K? No, sir.

Okay. How are you paying light bill and food bill and all that?

His pension. I get it. Yeah. That's supposed to die out.

How much is his pension?

A year or monthly. Monthly, it's just under 5,500, and for annual, it's like 6,59.

How much is your house payment?

My house payment is I always pay 2,000.

How long does the pension last?

The pension is going to end in less than five years. Okay, good.

We got a really good plan here. You can survive monthly. I think so. You can survive and have been monthly on the 55 with the every dollar budget. That's very possible. We may or may not use the 40. We'll see. Prefer to wait till after $59 if we can. Okay. You're going to get rid of the truck payments by getting rid of the and get in your car you can afford. You're going to start the next chapter of your life. You're a wee 57-year-old. You have a lot left. A lot left. This is your Chapter 2. This is Act 2. After the curtain comes back up, we took a bow. It's an encore. It didn't turn out like we thought it was going to. The story takes a twist, a rather tragic turn, and the heroine steps forward with her shield and her sword. Okay?

Thank you.

That's you. That's where you're going. What's going to happen is three years from today, you're going to be booming as the biggest real estate agent in Naples or whatever it is you choose to do. You're going to be laughing about this little tiny pension, but it sustained you when it should have, and that was good. But it's certainly not your future. You are your future.

Okay.

Right? Mathetically, you are. Emotionally, you are. Spiritually, you are.

Yes.

Financially, you definitely are. You're the secret sauce to the equation, and you're up to it. You can do it. I can tell by talking to you. You're hurting, but any normal human be hurting with what you've gone through, honey. But I think there's a lot going on inside, Dorothy.

How much debt, Dorothy, you mentioned that you guys just traveled and bought stuff and racked up some debt. I'm just curious, what all is the debt? How much credit card debt is it?

I I have about, it's actually $18,306.38. Okay.

What other debt is there?

The house is just a little over 100,000. That'll be under $100 after September's payment. I have two trucks totaling $21,000 and an RV that's at 15.

So the trucks and the RV are gone and get you a reasonable car.

But that's it, right? Okay.

Then we're going to plow through the credit cards. Is there anything else?

The credit card? No. Just monthly payments, of course.

All right. Here's what we're going to do, okay? I'm going to load you up with homework. Are you ready to go to school?

Yes, sir.

All right.

Can I ask you one more quick question?

Yes, ma'am.

I'll wait till you're done, and then maybe I'll- No, you go ahead. Go ahead.

Go right now.

I had already taken one of the credit cards and put it on a 0% for 18 months, and I'm plugging away at that one. The other one has an interest rate. It's the one that's only at 6,000. Would it behoove me to transfer that to a 0% for 18 months?

Doesn't matter. You can if you want, but that's not your problem. Your problem is getting the income up and having your future lined out. Once you see that, then you can turn up the heat and just get rid of them. The interest rate doesn't matter when you're paying aggressively on them. If you want to, it's okay, but it's not the answer to your situation at all. Hold on, Christian is going to pick up. We're going to put you into financial peace, university. We're going to provide you with a financial coach. All is our gift. We're people of the book, and the book instructs us to take care of widows and orphans, and we will do that today. You're going to get that. I'm also going to send you Ken Coleman's book, Find the Work You're Wired to Do. It has in it an assessment. I want you to take the assessment. I want you to start the process of dreaming about what the new future looks like for Dorothy. What is it you want to be when you grow up? You're just a wee 57-year-old. Just a tiny little. You can do it.

Dorothy, and I'm so proud of you. Can we just say, too, you haven't messed anything up. When people go through tragedy, we even tell them just to pause for even a year. You're not behind all of it. I know it probably feels very overwhelming, but you've done the right thing.

Hey, guys, if you- You're smart. I'm sorry. If you want to hear the next 40 minutes of the show, it's on the Ramsey app, the Ramsey Network app. You can download that for free in the App Store or Google Play. Make sure you jump over and get it there. If you want to listen to all three hours or watch all three hours, you can always do that on the Ramsey Network app. It's completely free. It doesn't cost you a thing. The last 40 minutes of the show now, if you're on talk radio, it's still there, where it always has been. But if you're on podcast or YouTube, it's on the Ramsey Network app in the App Store or Google Play. It's completely free. This is the Ramsey Show.

What up?

What up? It's Dr. John Deloney from the Dr. John Deloney Show with some amazing news. The latest episode of United States of Anxiety is available right now exclusively on the Ramsey Network app. This docuseries follows real people from my show as they embark on a 90-day journey to transform their lives, and I personally walk alongside them every step of the way. Okay, now, here's a sneak peek of what the new episode is all about. And don't forget to click the link in the show notes to download the app. What's up, Kelsey? So I've lived with crippling anxiety for as long as I can remember. How do I stop it from constantly coming up in different areas of my life.

What does crippling anxiety mean?

Paint me a picture of that. All right, so you're ready to jump in?

I'm ready to jump in. We're going to check in with Kelsey 30 days, 60 days, 90 days. I cannot even function because I'm just crying.

My mom left us when I was four.

I truly felt like for a while I had no family. She's experiencing things that really hurt a long time ago. Tell me about this boy. He triggers me a lot.

Scared of losing Paul, scared of doing the wrong thing, scared of not being enough. It just feels like it would be exhausting to be Kelsey.

It is.

Whenever somebody's playing Whac-a-Mole with their anxiety, when it just keeps moving, that tells me the underlying system's not okay.

How do I get my inner child out of this relationship? Because I feel like she's running the show. One of two people that's supposed to never leave took off. How is this burden? You're burden, that's right. To the one person who should carry it, all of it. Did you ever tell that little girl that it wasn't her fault? I don't know what to do. Do you either have to choose to let this guy love you, or you got to choose to let this guy go?