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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions. It's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I am Rachel Cruz, hosting this hour with my good friend and host of The Dr. John Deloney Show, as well as best-selling author, John Deloney. And so we are here to answer your questions: life, money, career, relationships, anything and everything. So give us a call at 828-825-5225. Up first, we have Cierra in Cincinnati. Hey, Cierra. Welcome to the show.

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Hi.

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Hello. Hello. How can we help?

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Yes. I was just calling to inquire. I've been recently addicted to listening to the show, and so I'm wanting to pay down debt and get into a position to invest more. I had a question in regards to if I should possibly rehome my dogs, even though I don't want to to get out of a dog boarding fee when I'm traveling for work.

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Oh, no. Okay.

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Most people listening like their dogs more than any people in their life.

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How often are you How often are you traveling? I'm sorry? How often are you traveling?

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With my new job, I travel a little less than I did before. Probably it just goes with the storms, potentially five to six months out of the year, and I'm usually gone for 10 to 14 days at a time.

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Okay. What's the boarding situation? Are you going to an actual border? Or do you have someone come and pet sit?

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I have a sitter now that's pretty consistent. And look at my bank did an overview of all my spending. And for my dogs, I spent about $10,000 last year.

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Oh, wow.

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Yeah. If you're gone half the year, I mean- How long have you had the dog?

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Or should I maybe talk to my sitter to try to see if we can negotiate something?

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That's what I was wondering, or is there... I just wonder if there's other options. I always hate just like, this is my only option- I would say get rid of the dog.

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Oh, my gosh. I know. I know half America just hung up on… They just are going to send me in cards and letters to James about me.

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How much are you making a year?

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My base is around 79,000. Okay. And with my additional pay when I'm traveling. I usually, like last year, I think my growth is about 87.

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Okay. But this isn't financial me. This is actually for the dog.

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But I just also got a raise, too. So This year, my gross would probably be around 90 to 95,000.

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Amazing. Okay. How much debt do you have?

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A lot. I have $20,000 for my car, and then I have a credit card with 10,500 on it. Then student loans is 70,000 plus 5,000 of interest, so 75,000.

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Okay. You're right at 100 grand of debt, making 95, spending 10 grand on dog per year. Might be going down because you have a new job. How long have you had the dog?

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They're five and six.

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You have two?

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Five and six. Okay, but for the dog's sake, they only get to see you half the year, right?

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Yes, but they're excited when they see me when I come back.

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Cierra, all dogs are excited. They haven't gone for five minutes. I know. No. Okay, here's what I would do, Sierra. I just wonder if there's anyone in your life who wants a dog as well, and you can co-parent this dog. You're out of your mind. For six months out of the year, this dog goes and lives with your friend who's great with a dog and loves it, and you guys- Well, so it's not a consistent.

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It The storm could happen today or a storm could happen a couple of months from now. It's not consistent. Right now, I'm in down season, but storm season- Yeah, I understand.

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I'm just saying- There's no friend like that, Rachel. I'm joking. The I'm here, I'm thinking, No, you could totally have a friend that's like, Oh, I love dogs. And Sarah's like, I can't.

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I have some of the greatest friends on the planet. I don't know any friend that'd be like, Anytime, Jaren, I drop your dog off for six months. That'd be awesome. I don't know that person. Maybe. I think you're right. What brought you to this question, even, that you're considering it? Do you think it's the right move?

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No, I don't. I don't know. I don't know if I would. If I track expenses and just cut everything out. I'm looking at including $200 a month towards the dogs when I'm not traveling, just to build up an expense. Right now, I'm at $2,800 in expenses a month.

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Okay.

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Because my last job used to give me per diem, so the per diem helped out with the dog cost.

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Sure. Yeah, totally. Because here's my thing. I'm like, Sarah, you'll be out of debt in what? Probably two and a half years. If you really- When I ran, it was three, almost four years with the student loan. Yeah, I think you can do it faster. I would pick up an extra job. I mean, I would do things because- Especially during the slow season, can you work right now?

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I've been trying to think of options. I'm not in an area where there's Uber, DoorDash, or anything in that nature.

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Okay.

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Yeah, I would get creative on the income side and be able to pay off your debt Because here's the thing. The debt is so temporary. You could be out of debt in, let's just say, two and a half years. And then your dogs will be eight.

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Dogs are forever.

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It'll be eight. You'll have another two years.

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Yeah, maybe that's the question. Do you want to go get During your off time, if you're home for a month or two without a big storm, do you want to work on those days that you're home, work, put in 8, 10 hours a day, just bust it, go throw boxes at Walmart, go pick up a shift at McDonald's or whatever. Work really hard on those days. Over the course of a year, you'll probably earn about an extra 10 grand. If those dogs are worth that investment, then you've answered your question.

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That's a good way of framing it. That if you had to work extra and make $800 a month- To cover the cost of those dogs?

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Is that investment, is that worth it for you?

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Yeah, I possibly could. It's just like they'll be in the house more if I work more. Okay.

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But I think you have to just make that call for yourself.

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Yeah. Okay. Yeah. There's a lifestyle question for sure of the happiness of the dogs, right? I'm like, Yeah, if you are gone happy- I spoil them, too.

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Yeah, but we spoil our dogs, not for them, but we spoil them for us, right? I spoil mine, too. Yeah, probably. But the dogs don't care. My son found a couple of old cow bones in this old field, and he brought them home. The dogs are the happiest they've ever been with these old cow. They don't care. We spoil them for us, right?

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Yes.

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All right. If you need an anchor when you come home, you've been gone for a month, you need an anchor to get home to, so you don't come home to an empty apartment, I totally get that. I totally get that. Okay. Thank you. But I think the sucky part here is math doesn't care about any of this. The math is you owe $100,000 and you make $90, and how quickly can we get that debt paid off?

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Yes, I think that's it. I think it's the sacrificial question. Is that sacrifice worth it, getting rid of them to an extra 20 grand over two years, and how quickly does that help you become debt-free faster? If that's not worth that sacrifice, you're like, No, I will be in debt six months longer in order to keep the dogs, or whatever it ends up being for you. That's great, too. No, I can't sit here in good faith and say, Yes, you need to sell these dogs.

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But I can't say. If it was me, I probably would. I wouldn't sell them. They're not for sale. And I like my dogs more than almost every person I know. I'm a dog guy, but...

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That's a hard one, Cierra. I don't know. I would find option C. See if there's a good friend who will take them.

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That friend does not exist.

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I believe that friend is out there, Cierra. This is the Ramsey Show.

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Hey, George Campbell here with a not-so-fun fact. Every American Social Security number, including our children's, has been hacked and is now on the dark web. This is not a scare tactic. This isn't fear mongering It's a reality that could turn into a nightmare for a lot of people. And believe me, I've been a victim of identity theft, and I would prefer it never happened again. Because once the bad guys have your social, it's the lifeblood for all of their activity. Think of all the places you use your social: your banking, your employer, government offices, utilities, cell phone companies, everywhere. And once they've got it, thief can open new accounts, drain existing ones, steal payroll, and wreak havoc all in your name. Not cool. And to be real, it's not a matter of if, but when. So You've got to protect yourself with Xander's ID theft protection. Xander has all the cyber tools to help, including home title monitoring, full recovery services if you do become a victim, and stolen funds protection. Not to mention, it's the best value on the market. They've been protecting my family for over a decade, and I trust them to protect yours, too.

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So get enrolled today by calling 800-356-4282, or just visit Xander. Com. That's Xander. Com.

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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. If you are a listener of the show, and you've been listening for a while, we actually have a survey that is out, and it is live. Oh, great.

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The segment after I told this poor woman to sell her dogs. What? We're going to do a Ramsey survey.

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Everybody's going to be like, What do we not want to hear John telling people to sell their dogs? Which he should.

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By the way, George Campbell, the guy who loves his two dogs more than any human. It's absurd.

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They He didn't hear the whole call, though.

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I know, but he was with me.

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He walked by and said, Sell the dogs. Sell the dogs. But he didn't have all the context.

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I think George would give both of his feet and one of his hands, both of his hands for his two.

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For Olive and Blue. Oh, yeah.

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What are the names? Olive. The fact that you and his friend know the names of his- We talk about these dogs all the time on Smart Money Happy Hour.

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They get brought up more than Mia, his daughter. I know. That's how much. You know they have to wipe their bus?

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They wipe their- Do you know that? Oh, I do.

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That's I told George. They have to. I put George on friendship probation. They have to. They are French Bulldogs, and you have to do that.

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I was like, You don't have a dog at that point. You know why? Because God didn't make that dog.

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And then the dogs have to sleep in the bed. Oh, it's a whole thing. Anyways, if you want to hear On that note- If you're not listening to more about George's dog, make sure to check out this survey. But for real, we want to know your favorite parts of this show, what you like, what you don't like, what you want to hear more of. I mean, just everything. We want to know your thoughts around the show to make the show better because we do this for you guys. And so there's really two ways that you can participate. One, you can text the word survey to 33789, or you can visit ramsey solutions. Com/survey, or if you're listening on podcast or you're watching or you're watching this for you guys, We'll put the link in the description. But we're giving away a $500 gift card to someone that fills out the survey. But again, go fill that out. It's very, very helpful to us. Again, ramsey solutions. Com/survey. All right, go into the phones. We have Lisa in Houston, Texas.

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Rich Tone. What's up, Lisa? Hey, Lisa.

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Hi.

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How are you all? We're doing great.

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How can we help?

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Good. Our question. My husband and I are both in our late '50s. We have nothing saved for retirement. What can I do? Well, I should say that for myself, I'm clinically and legally blind, and he works offshore, so he's not home a lot. I'm just trying to figure out what can we do.

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Who helps with your caretaking while he's gone?

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Nobody. I'm here alone. Oh, good grief. Oh, yeah. I can maneuver pretty well, thank God. My goodness.

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You all have no pension, no Social Security, anything?

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Are you getting any for a disability at all, Lisa?

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No. In my life, we've been married for almost 37 years. I've only worked maybe four years if you connect all the days together, so I don't have anything like that.

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Does he, though?

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Yes, I'm sure he does. He's been working selber, but yes.

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Okay. You all need to combine your money because you all are going to be retired together.

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Okay. But that's what I'm saying. I don't have any money. Like I said, I haven't worked in years.

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I know. I don't think you're hearing what I'm saying.

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I know. I'm probably not.

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Go ahead. No, it's okay. You haven't worked, but you've kept that household up while he's gone, right? Oh, right. Yes. Yes. So his money has the money that he's earned and the money It's you all's money is what I'm trying to say.

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Right. It is. We share bank account and everything.

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Perfect. Does he have a retirement with his company, or does he have mutual funds, or a 401, or Social Security?

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Social Security, I believe he would have that. As far as 401k, this company bought out two years ago, so I think they just started the 401k, but he hasn't gotten into it yet. He's been at this company for two years. Okay.

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Lisa, how much does he make a year?

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About 101,000.

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Okay, 100,000. What debt do you guys have?

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Well, I have a SBA loan on my home, car debt. Do you need to know the amount or what?

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Yes, I would love to. Okay.

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The house, 85,000. The car, 45,000. Credit card debt, we have maybe three cars all Together, it's about 25,000. Student loan, 16,000.

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You said there's a SBA. That can't be the right one. What loan do you have on your house?

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Yes, it's a SBA. What happened is we paid off the house back in 2014. But when Harvey hit and my husband's company folded back doing bankruptcy, we had to live off of whatever money we had in his 401k, and he didn't get another job offshore until a year later.

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How did you all get an SBA loan? Had he taken it out with his company? You all just took that money and use it for your expenses?

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It was because of Harvey, the flood. We were flooded out our whole city.

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Yeah, I was in Houston. I remember Yeah, we didn't have house insurance at that time because he had lost his job a year before.

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And so therefore, we didn't- You took out the $85,000 to fix the home and to live off of? Yes.

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Okay.

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Yes. Okay.

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And nothing saved. Do you have any cash?

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Well, I do have 9,000 cash, but I'm saving to get a roof. I'm going to need a roof before August.

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A roof on the home?

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Yes. Okay.

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So, yeah, this is a tough one, Lisa, just because of the reality of these numbers and where to get you guys in order to start looking into retirement. I mean, he probably will not be retiring anytime soon Is his health okay?

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It's okay.

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Okay. Yeah. I think that you guys just need a game plan. I think you've, to a degree, have just been floating and using debt to fix issues all also patch up things in life, and there's not really been a plan. What I would do is I would sit down with you guys together tonight, and you both really need to be on the same page in a really deep way. John was mentioning that earlier, but what you're going to What you're going to do here in the next 7, 8, 9, 10 years is... I mean, it's a decade of saying, Hey, we're going to have to do something completely different the way we've been doing money, and you both have to be bought into that. What it's going to look like, Lisa, is to be paying off the smallest debt first. So you're going to work on those student loans, those 16,000. You're going to next cut up the credit cards, start paying those off, smallest to largest. And if there's three of those, so the goal here is to write down all of your debts separately. So if you have two student loans, write them as two different loans.

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Three credit cards, write them as three different, because the goal here is to write out every piece of debt you have, and you're going to pay off the smallest one first, and you're going to work your way through. But this is without any extra income and just him, it's going to take you guys probably three to four years to get out of this. My challenge to you, Lisa, is we've talked to a lot of people on this show with a lot of different situations and a lot of obstacles in life. And we've talked to people that have been legally blind and that they haven't gotten disability or they haven't been able to apply for government assistance or anything like that. But they've done things creatively to think through, Hey, how in any way can I bring in an extra? So even you, Lisa, being able to bring in $400, $500 extra a month. Just something. Because the more that you guys sacrifice lifestyle, don't live on anything, and you throw as much as you can of debt. That's really the only way to get out of this. I wish there was a magic wand just to wave and change the whole situation.

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But your steps are going to be, Lisa, to get out of debt first, and then beyond that, save some cash, and then start looking into retirement. That's why I'm saying it's going to probably be a good decade. Then I would start lowering my expenses because when you guys get to the point of retirement, I want you to be able to, yes, use Social Security, but also be able to cash flow your lifestyle at that point from the decisions you're making today.

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If you were my mom, I don't want to oversensationalize this, but I have a couple of buddies that worked offshore out in the Gulf. And your husband's time out there is short, and you know that, right? Mm-hmm. I can't keep doing that late into his 50s. That's hard work. That's a young man's game. So you all are making a six-figure income. I would get maniacal about paying this stuff off. There's no reason to have a $45,000 depreciating asset car in a driveway when you can't drive because of your vision, and he's gone a month or two or three at a time. That's a used Camry house. You don't need a big old fancy nice car on the driveway. You need to sell that ASAP and knock that debt off. But you all are just going to have to get radical. I hope he'll be there with you. I think the words I would start with are, I'm very, very scared about our situation. Would you be willing to make a radical shift with me. Because, I mean, Harvey was in 14. It flooded. It was a zoo. It was 10 years. That's 11 years ago.

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And you all still haven't messed with those debts. So let's get on it. This show is sponsored by Better Health. Hey, folks, we all have stories, the family and cultural stories that we were born into, the stories of the things that have happened to us, both good and bad, and the stories that we constantly tell ourselves. While we can't go and change any of our old stories, the world is waiting to see what you and I are going to write next. As we enter 2025, I want to encourage you to examine your old stories and be intentional about the new ones you're writing. I'm not talking I'm not talking about goals that are going to be long gone by February. I'm talking about writing new stories that will change your life forever for the better. If you're like me, therapy can be a great place to explore the old stories, even heal from them, and begin to write the new ones. If you're thinking about starting therapy, I want you to consider my friends at Betterhelp. Betterhelp is 100% online therapy, and you can talk with a licensed therapist when it works for your schedule.

[00:20:42]

You just fill out a short online survey to get matched with the licensed therapist, and you can switch therapists at any time for no extra cost. Start writing a new story this month with Betterhelp. Visit betterhelp. Com/delonie to get 10% off your first month. That's Betterhelp, H-E-L-P. Com. Com/delonie.

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We are really excited to announce that there is going to be a two-night virtual event talking about investing. This is a subject that I know can be very complicated in a way, it can be intimidating. Being able to break it down, put the cookies on the bottom shelf, talk about investing in a way that makes sense. Then above that, to be like, Okay, how do we really build wealth? There's this event with Dave Ramsey and George Campbell, and it's called Investing Essentials, and it's going to be absolutely fantastic. It's a virtual event. Again, they're going to walk through how to maximize your 401k and mutual funds, get the most out of your money, and invest with confidence. Plus, it's really the only place that Dave talks about his personal playbook when it comes to real estate investing and explaining how Dave has made hundreds of millions of dollars on property investments. Now, you can get clarity and confidence when it comes to the subject of investing and building wealth long term. So make sure to check Check out Investing Essentials. It's happening on March fourth and fifth. Again, it's virtual. You can just watch it from your home.

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And tickets start at $1.99. $1.99. You can get yours at ramsey solutions. Com/events. Or if you are listening on podcast, or YouTube, click the link in the description. This was one of our biggest events last year, virtual events. People loved it.

[00:22:24]

Dave opens up his actual portfolio. Like, You all want to know how I do it? Here's how I do it. Talks about it.

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It's really, really great. Everything, again, from investing into the market and real estate is that event, romesiesolutions. Com/events. All right, going to the phones, we have Ben in Kansas City. Hey, Ben, welcome to the show.

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Good afternoon. A long-time listener. I really believe in your systems. I'm in a situation. Last of my three kids is graduating from college in May, and she is entering dental school. Over the years, I've heard you and Dave and all talk about the fact that be careful about taking student loans. Her dental school is going to be approximately $400,000 over four years. I'm trying to find out what solution or what ideas you might have to finance that so we don't have to take out the traditional school loans.

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You're not going to like our answer.

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Okay.

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I spent my whole career in higher Ed. That's been my whole world until just a few years ago. As my son says, I became a YouTuber. I also studied the mental health of attorneys physicians, health professionals. At the very top of that list is dentists. I believe, personally, I didn't do a financial study. I believe it's because they get out of school with three or four $100,000 in debt, and then they immediately go in and are told they have to buy a practice or buy into a practice. Or just to start open up their own shingle, they got to take another million dollar business loan to get this thing going. Then they find themselves on a 50-year treadmill that they will never be able to get off of. The thing I would implore you to do is please don't take out half a million dollars in debt. And I know it's your daughter's dream. I love dentists. I love good dentists. I've bought many a dentist a nice car with the work they've had done, but it's such a crushing burden. I've just had the blessing, yet the heartbreak of sitting behind closed doors with dentists, man, when their worlds are falling apart because they owe so much money.

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There's not an easy thing I could tell you. I wish I was, man, but I'm sorry. It's become so insanely cost prohibitive. I do know I'm not one of these end-of-timers. If med school is expensive because you have to hire a surgeon who knows how to take a heart out of somebody and put another one in there. You got to hire that person out of the marketplace to go teach at a college. That's expensive. Med school is going to be expensive. Dental school is going to be expensive. I want dental school to be done right and done great, all that, so I'm all about it. But I can't, having seen the psychological toll of owing half a million dollars on day one of your brand new job, I can't get conscience, say, just go find a student loan and go knock that out.

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Are there alternatives that we could look at as far as financing it? Can I help finance it? What other options are out there other than students launch?

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Well, with these types of schools, I put law school in this. If you're getting your MD, dental school, there are situations where we've talked to people that have done it debt-free, but they're very creative, they're very unique. It's a very a small sliver of whether it's these types of working for the school, internships. There's different types of ways that you can do it, different programs, specifically when you're looking at law, specifically when you're looking at medical and even dental. Again, I don't even know where to direct you in that, but we have had people call, and we had someone just a few months ago on the debt free stage, and they went. I think it was their law degree they got, and they got it completely paid for. So again, there's these creative alternatives, Ben, that you can look into that are out there. Again, they're slim. It's there. What's your finances been? Where are you and your wife?

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Well, I'm 64. My wife is 60, so approaching retirement, still working full-time. We're completely debt-free. So We had a 529 account for each of our kids, and that helped them through their undergraduate, and they all got scholarships as well. That helped a lot. We haven't even applied for scholarships yet for dental school. We're going to be starting that process.

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Is there anything left in any of the 529s from the other kids that have already completed school and are not going to go back?

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There is. The total amount at this point in time is about $66,000.

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With all the 529s in your kid's names, not just hers?

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Yes. Okay.

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I guess the creative adventure, dude, would be, and like I say, this is me spitball, and there's not an easy solution here until graduate programs decide we're going to intentionally, and I think it's going to have to be a university and a public partnership. You know how I feel about partnering with a government on anything, but we all need doctors, we need good attorneys, we need good dentists, but we also need doctors and attorneys and dentists that can breathe at night so they can sleep, so they can show up for the least of these, and they can't with this money. If you immediately walk in, and so now you're down to 344 because you got 66,000. If your daughter can punt her entrance for one year and get a job and make $50,000 and live with you guys, and now you're down to 300. I would tell you to try to figure out a way to cash flow it. Then if you get some scholarship down to a certain... I mean, that's what I tell you to figure it out. If you have to postpone a year or two, they'll punt your admission for a year, they'll defer it for a year, and you can figure it out that way.

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But again, it's a long shot. It's just hard.

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Yeah. I would say for her, Ben, to go down that road, what John is saying, because I know two people that are dentists, and they had to buy a practice and/or pay into… There was so much debt on top of their school. There's too long. Their school. Yes. It's unlike a doctor that just plugs into a hospital, right?

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Or unlike an attorney who could literally practice law from their house, you have to go buy dentists chairs and tools.

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Yeah, it's a different road. I would implore her to go on this discovery and go and Seriously, go and ask and talk to two or three dentists. Yeah, dentists, and just ask because we did a documentary, Ben, and we'll put the link in the show notes here on the show called Borrowed Future. One of the guys that we interviewed, he was a dentist, a million dollars in debt. A million dollars in debt.

[00:29:30]

Hey, Ben, let me ask you this. How many schools has she applied to?

[00:29:36]

Three different schools.

[00:29:37]

She got into just one, or all of them are about 400,000?

[00:29:40]

She just got into one.

[00:29:41]

Okay. Is it a private school? Is it a for-profit school? Is it a reputable school?

[00:29:48]

It's a reputable school, but it is a private school.

[00:29:51]

Okay.

[00:29:53]

Which is going to turn that- Maybe it is going back to the public schools that she didn't get admitted to and either asking admissions counselor.

[00:30:00]

I know with the law school admissions folks I worked with, they were remarkable about telling candidates, Here's how your candidacy could have improved when they would trickle back and ask. Maybe it's applying to more and more public schools across the country and just giving it a shot, especially if you for enrollment for a year. But private is going to be your most expensive option. My hope would be you could find a great state dental school for a couple of hundred grand. That is what it's going to cost. I don't blink an eye about that. But then that would give your family a chance to rally around her and to do this without barring money.

[00:30:38]

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[00:31:56]

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[00:32:33]

Today's question comes from Jessica in Nevada. Jessica writes, My partner and I have been together for four years. Both of us went through horrific divorces. We live together and have part-time custody of our young children from those marriages. We are about to have a baby together but do not want to get married, even though we are in a committed, loving relationship. How can we provide security and protection for each other and our baby in case something happens to one or both of us? My partner has a very well-paying job. I'm a teacher. Once we have a baby, I'll probably work part-time or stay at home for a while. How can we provide security and protection for each other and our baby in case something happens to one or both of us? You're not like my answer, but get married and give your kid a legal foundation for which... Good gosh, what a mess. I mean, that's what you need to do. Are you going to sit down with a wheels and a state's attorney? I don't know the state of Nevada. They may have some specific, some different legal things. But the greatest gift you could give your kid is to process and heal from the horrific divorces.

[00:33:40]

Both of you all go to the therapy that you need and get the care that you all need. Then don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. You went through a really tough car wreck. That doesn't mean we never drive again, but that means we do need to get over the anxiety of getting a car again. We got to practice driving. We got to get a new car, but we're going to have to get back out on the road sometime. Time. The safest thing you can do is get married. Then if one of you dies, then there's legal protections across the board there. But I'd go talk to an estate attorney if you aren't going to do that. I don't really have an answer for you other than that.

[00:34:14]

Yeah, because I do feel like some people... It's like this avoidance of, I don't want marriage because it hurt last time, so we're going to just not deal with it and do it our own way. Exactly. Because of that, what you missed so many opportunities to probably heal from those traumatic divorces is what you're saying. It actually causes you to face this fear of, I don't want to do this again. I'm so scared. But yet we basically are married from an emotion. We're living together.

[00:34:41]

There's a level-We're playing house. Yeah. But we think we've avoided a potential hurt because we don't have this- Legal standing. Right. What it's like, it's actually a better analogy, is we were driving in a car and we got in a wreck and we got hurt by our seat belt. We're going to We have again, but we're never wearing a seat belt again. What that means is if you get in another wreck, it's going to be way bigger mess, and the likelihood you're going to get hurt is way worse than what it was. You chose to get back into a romantic relationship. You chose to both share a house together. Have a baby together. You both chose to make a human together. The only thing you're not doing is protecting yourself with the legal protection of a licensed marriage. Dude, I've been getting this question more and more and more like, I don't want to get the government involved. If you have a kid, the government's involved because you made it one of their citizens. You've done that already. If you buy a property with somebody, you've got the government involved. It's cool to be like, I don't want to move.

[00:35:43]

They're involved.

[00:35:45]

So move on. What's the psychological play here when you're not married and doing all of this, living together, having a baby together? Then not just from a legal standpoint, but what does that do emotionally, psychologically to say, Oh, we've entered a marriage? Does something shift in that?

[00:36:04]

It can. If they did go through horrific divorces, which I believe, then, yeah, if you have trauma surrounding an old behavior and you reengage in that new behavior, you're going to have to deal It's a bit of it, right? Yeah. But is there a level of commitment?

[00:36:18]

Is there something about the seriousness?

[00:36:20]

There's something about... Yes, you have to be all in. I wish there was another way to say it. But if you're not all in, then when things get rocky, which they will, you hop out.

[00:36:32]

So much easier to leave. Yeah, you hop out. So much easier to leave.

[00:36:35]

What you're almost guaranteeing is any bumps in the road in the future, it's just going to be messier, except, quite honestly, Jessica- She's in a worse spot. I'm going to over-gender this, but you're in the bad spot here because if his name is on this house and you don't have a job and you become just baby mama or living girlfriend and you all break up, you're in a mess, right? Having to reenter the workforce. In a weird way, a marriage may protect you more right now. Again, meet with an estate attorney in Nevada and work that stuff out individually. But yeah, man, I hate this for you because you all are in a mess. You're trying to-Avoid a reality.

[00:37:18]

You're trying to go swimming without getting wet, and you're already in the pool, man.

[00:37:21]

You're already in the pool.

[00:37:22]

All right, let's go to Richard in Anaheim, California. Hi, Richard. Welcome to the show.

[00:37:29]

Hey, guys. Thank you for taking the call. Really appreciate it.

[00:37:31]

Absolutely. I know you're south of everything going on there, but you guys good?

[00:37:36]

North of the fires?

[00:37:37]

We're very safe. Is it Anaheim south? It's south of Santa Monica, right?

[00:37:41]

Yeah, we're Orange County.

[00:37:42]

Yeah.

[00:37:43]

Okay, sorry. I used to be a geography teacher. I shouldn't know that.

[00:37:46]

John doesn't know. He's a California geography. How can we help?

[00:37:52]

Here's what I'm asking. I'm 50 years old, basically, with three children, all toddlers under the age of 10. I'm tired of just the day-to-day rat race. My job pays for our bills, but I don't ever have have anything saved. My wife is a I'm a get-home mother. I'm taking care of the kids, then we homeschool. It's very important to us. We're very religious when it comes to that, so that's a non-negotiable for her getting a job. But I'm I own my home. I have 300 grand in equity. I have been on the job a long time, and I'm just staying above water. Cost of living is just so expensive here in California. My monthly nut that I have to pay, pardon my French, is $8,300 a month. My mortgage is $4,900. I have one debt, which is my car payment. I owe 17,000. My wife's car is paid off.

[00:39:02]

I'm just at the point- Hey, Richard. You feel like you're just running, running, and there's no traction. You should move.

[00:39:10]

I want to move to another state. And move to another state. I did and pay cash.

[00:39:16]

I did it. Some things were really great, some things were really tough. The good thing is that we got a chance to start over and make a new life. The bad thing is, is I went with me. So any of my old stuff that I didn't like about myself or my parenting or how I was as a husband, it came with me, so I had to deal with it here. But you should move.

[00:39:34]

What's your wife say, Richard?

[00:39:37]

My wife's open to it. It's just her family is all within a 20-mile radius within here in Southern California. It's a little bit of a challenge. That's what I did.

[00:39:48]

They're older. It's not good. It's hard.

[00:39:51]

It is hard. I could go and pay cash for a house in another state, not have any debt. My income is going to stay the same in the next 10 It's not going to fluctuate that much going up. I make 137,000 a year.

[00:40:06]

What do you do for a living?

[00:40:08]

I do a national accounting. Travel. I travel a lot, and I thought I was getting a second job on the weekends, but then I'll never see the kids because I travel.

[00:40:19]

Hey, Richard. Richard, I can hear it. You travel, and every minute you're traveling, you're thinking, I should be moving. When you're at night and the kids are in bed, you're looking up other real estate and other states. Here's what you're doing. You're slowly making yourself crazy. Just move. Here's the beautiful part. If you hate it, you all can move back. But right now, I think you need to go. Ask your wife, Can we do 24 months? Can we commit to a new town and a new area? There's going to be a lot of grieving. Family is not going to like you. They're going to get mad at you. I went through that. Doing holidays is going to be weird, and so you may need to budget a little bit more for travel over the holidays. We'd have to do that, too. Then get out of there, man. Go do something else. This has nothing to do with California. It just has to do with you're done in this area and you want a little bit more.

[00:41:09]

You're trying to justify it any other way of like, Oh, everything's coming out. Stop being angry about it.

[00:41:14]

Just make your next move, man. It's not worth your soul and just being angry and all the time.

[00:41:20]

That's the thing is there's not a light at the end of the tunnel. It's just going to be the same life over and over again.

[00:41:24]

Until you do something different.

[00:41:25]

Yeah. Change it. You can always go back. You can always go back. Well, thanks so much to the guys in the booth. Thank you, John. Always been a great host, and thank you, America. We'll be back.

[00:41:37]

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[00:42:10]

Org, Equal Housing Lender.

[00:42:12]

1749 Mallory Lane, Suite 100. Brent NEC 3702.7..

[00:42:17]

Live from Ramsey Solutions. It's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I am Rachel Cruz, hosting this This hour with my good friend and best selling author, Dr. John Deloitte. What up? We are answering your calls on life, money, relationships, career, anything and everything. Give us a call at 888-825. Com. 5, 2, 2, 5. If you're listening live, we are here for the next two hours, so we'll be here by the phone. So give us a call.

[00:42:53]

In the last hour, I'm not going to lie, it was a heavy one.

[00:42:56]

It was a sad hour. I know.

[00:42:57]

I saw my dogs, see James The child cut his beard. It was a whole thing. It was a heavy, heavy hour. We're going to lighten it up a little bit on this one.

[00:43:05]

No, it's going to be great. Our board is full of calls from all around the country, so let's dive in. Let's have Michael start us off this hour in Chicago.

[00:43:13]

Mike, What's up, Michael?

[00:43:15]

In Chicago. Hey, Michael.

[00:43:17]

Hi, guys. Thank you for having me, and thank you for taking my question. You got it.

[00:43:20]

What's up, man?

[00:43:22]

My parents asked me for 40 to 50K for a down payment for a second home. Oh, God, no.

[00:43:27]

Don't do that. Okay.

[00:43:29]

Can Can Mike finish his question?

[00:43:33]

Okay, go ahead.

[00:43:34]

They currently live about 10 hours away from the rest of us siblings, and they don't have the down payment for that home. The reason for them not being able to move and be closer to us is my father is waiting to finish five more years at his job to collect a pension, and they are wanting to have the flexibility to be closer, but to have their own place. I'm 25 years old, just got out of my own debt. I'm really unsure what to do.

[00:43:58]

Yeah, I would say no.

[00:43:59]

Why are they coming to you, Michael, and not another sibling?

[00:44:04]

I'm the most financially secure right now. My other three siblings are living paycheck or just getting out of their own student loans.

[00:44:13]

Okay.

[00:44:14]

What they're asking you is a couple of things. They've created a set of principles for their life. We're going to stay here for five more years. We don't want to be uncomfortable when we travel. We want to have our own place. Problem is they're grown adults, but they can't afford these principles they've put into motion. So they come to their 25-year-old child and said, You make our dreams that we can't afford. You make our principles concrete because we can't. Right. And you It's not your job. By the way, this will mess up your relationship. I would tell you, there's a financial reason to not do this, but the main thing is, dude, it will mess up your relationship with your dad.

[00:44:56]

Worry about.

[00:44:57]

Yeah. Do you have $25,000 $10 in cash? You can just hand them?

[00:45:02]

Yeah. I'm debt-free now quite a bit in a savings account right now that he's aware of, obviously. He helps me look at my financials. He's the only one I talk to my financials about.

[00:45:15]

You need to stop doing that, by the way. He's violated that trust, and so you need to get a smart investor pro and have that person do that. I love my dad more than life itself, and him and I don't go through the the intimate details of our finances together. I have a person, and he's got a person, and that helps preserve our relationship.

[00:45:36]

Right.

[00:45:37]

I hate this for you, man.

[00:45:39]

Can you predict it all, Michael, just from the pattern of who they are? Is it more your dad wanting this, you think, or your mom?

[00:45:47]

It's obviously a complex situation. All of us kids were all over the country when they decided to move down south away from us. Now two of my siblings are getting married in the next few months and wanting to have children, obviously, pretty quickly. I think a lot of it has to do with them wanting to be closer to us during those times, obviously being stuck at that place that they're at right now due to their current position.

[00:46:15]

Yeah. Well, they wouldn't be able to come up a ton anyways because he's working still, right? I mean, how often would they be able to come up, realistically?

[00:46:23]

Yeah, that's a good question, too, and I don't know.

[00:46:26]

I would ask them that. Honestly, Michael, for them, I'm like, I mean, just do an Airbnb for two weeks. If they're coming up. I mean, for them, financially, that makes more sense instead of having an asset here. We had some friends and their in-laws, yeah, were out of state. They weren't asking them for money, but they were considering buying a condo. After they ran all the numbers, we're really probably holistically only going to be here a total of maybe six weeks throughout the year. If you put it all together, your kids are here, you can stay with them or get a hotel. I don't know. From a financial standpoint, it doesn't make sense. If you can't pay cash for a second home for it just to be there for your own leisure, but you're paying a mortgage on something that's literally just sitting there. It's not good. I wouldn't even suggest that to them. If they called us and we're like, Hey, I want to take out a loan on a second home, here's the situation, I would probably tell them, No, I wouldn't do that anyway, let alone borrow the down payment from your son.

[00:47:16]

Yeah, I'm planning to talk with them in a few months about it to the both of them and just let them know. But obviously, I wanted some advice. For sure.

[00:47:24]

The language I would use is, Thank you all so much for reaching out. That It means a lot to me that you all have noticed how I've turned my things around. That's pretty cool. I've got some pretty clear financial goals that I'm trying to hit. I'm not in a place where I can loan money to family members right here. Any response they have is they've got to own it, man.

[00:47:47]

Right. I think the biggest thing for me is my parents have allowed me to be in this position, and obviously, I feel good about it.

[00:47:55]

What does that mean?

[00:47:57]

They really pushed How I got successful is just I got lucky doing what I do for a job and lean on my parents a lot. They had to take out some loans to get me to the point where I'm at now. More specifically, it has to do with, obviously, just the job that I have now. I thought about changing my careers at one point, and I'm glad I stayed with it because it's been very, very successful.

[00:48:27]

I hear that, and I think we can give... My parents for my college, right? There are things that our parents do to give us a leg up that is 100% being aware of that and saying that and the gratitude in that. I'm not ignoring that at all. But also, Michael, you're a 25-year-old man who made decisions with his income where you could have gotten a second home, two cars, and you could be living paycheck to paycheck, even though you make a lot of money. You could make other decisions, but you haven't. You've chosen to do things, to get out of debt and to save, and you've done those, Michael. They didn't do those for you. And siblings are an example of your parents, I'm sure, helped them in certain ways as well, but they've chosen a different path. So give yourself credit. Do you know what I mean? Yes, our parents have helped us, and we will always have that gratitude and acknowledgement, always. But also there's a point that we become adults and we get to make our own decisions, and from there is- This isn't even at that level.

[00:49:23]

Here's what I know for certain. If Dave Ramsey and Sharon Ramsey, I don't know how this happened, if they fell on hard times and they had nowhere to go. They have three amazing kids, one of them sitting next to me, that would say, You all come stay at the house. We'll help you out. We'll help you get on your feet. This is not that situation. Sure. You're thinking of your parents' investment in you as some 401 that they put forward. If they put that on you, shame on them. Parents don't pay for their kid's college as some investment vehicle so that they demand a return so that when they want a different color car, you have to be their bank. Your parents aren't destitute. They've made a series of choices starting a few years ago. They're like, Screw this. We're moving out of here. We want to move far away, and they did. Yeah, that's a great point.

[00:50:10]

It's a second home. This is a second home. It's a luxury.

[00:50:14]

Yeah. You're right. If they could pay for food- Then I'm all about it. We're going to help out mom and dad. We're going to honor our father and mother. I'm all about that. But dude, if it's to pay for their second loan of money for a second, I'm going to I know, man.

[00:50:30]

I'll say this, too, Michael. Knowing my parents with the grandkids, they're very emotional right now with this dream of, Oh, my gosh, our whole family is about to... There's going to be babies. Their emotions are probably driving this as well. For five years, they're going to They're going to be okay. They're going to be all right.

[00:50:46]

Mom can come stay with you anytime she wants.

[00:50:48]

That's right. Thanks for the call, Michael. Hope that helps.

[00:50:55]

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[00:51:56]

Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Rachel Cruz with Dr. John Deloney, and we are answering your calls about life, money, relationships, anything and everything. Give us a call at 888-885-825-5225. Next, we are going to Los Angeles and talking to Jessica. Hey, Jessica, welcome to the show.

[00:52:20]

Hello. Thank you very much.

[00:52:21]

Absolutely. How are you guys doing?

[00:52:24]

We're doing good. We're doing okay. We're actually about an hour out from LA, so we are not near the pirate.

[00:52:31]

Oh, good. Oh, so sorry.

[00:52:33]

We're thinking about you guys, man. What a mess, mess, mess.

[00:52:36]

Yes, prayers to everybody who's going through losing their house. And yes, we've been praying for everybody. For sure.

[00:52:42]

How can we help?

[00:52:44]

Our question is, we did Financial Peace University probably about eight years ago. Our house bills are beautiful. I heard the guy earlier say that just his mortgage alone is 5,000. Our house bills altogether come out to about 6,000 per month. Okay. But we started a business in 2020, and we got ourselves into $250,000 in debt, which is credit card and personal loans.

[00:53:16]

Jessica.

[00:53:17]

I know. A hundred thousand of that is under the business, and then the other is we used our personal credit cards. Me and my husband, we actually did go through some turmoil after 2020, and we were not on the same page. That is part of what happened with the debt. Now we started going to church, we're going to counseling, and there is major potential in the business. But we also have in our home, we do have, I don't know after closing costs and things like that, but we have some equity in our house. We owe 400,000, and we could potentially sell it for 650 seven. So the question is, do we look into selling the house and getting the debt off of our shoulders and then growing the business? Or do we grow the business and try to pay off the debt while staying in our home?

[00:54:14]

I would do the latter. I wouldn't sacrifice the house for this because to a degree, the business is still a dream, right? I mean, you don't have multiple years of it absolutely killing it, right? I know it has potential, but I would not sell my house on potential, no. What Give me some numbers around the business. What business is it and where are you guys at in it?

[00:54:36]

It is a wellness center and med spa, all in one. The business bills including paying ourselves is 17,000. We make, on average, about 20.

[00:54:57]

Is this your only stream of income when you're paying yourself out of the business? Yes. Or do you guys have other jobs? This is it. You both are full-time in this?

[00:55:06]

We both are full-time in this, yes. Okay.

[00:55:08]

So it's making 3,000 a month net. Is that what you're telling me?

[00:55:13]

Yes.

[00:55:14]

Okay.

[00:55:15]

That's if something doesn't come up unexpected in the business.

[00:55:18]

Sure. What are you seeing in the business that's causing you to think there's going to be this upward trajectory versus it just continuing to be this and you make three grand a month?

[00:55:29]

Like I said earlier, my husband and I, we were not working together on the business. I was doing it by myself for the first three years. Just recently, for a year, we've been working together, but we, like I said, started going to church and counseling. Now, we are on the same page, and we're actually fasting right now for it. We're looking for answers as far as if we work together and we kill it in the business.

[00:56:04]

Okay, yeah. I hear all of that. I don't mean to keep being devil's advocate here because everything you just laid out is incredible. I think from a spiritual perspective, that you guys are united in that. You're working on your marriage with a professional? I mean, you're doing so many incredible things. So is your thought process, because we are becoming more of a united team within our marriage, how is that going to correlate to bringing in more business? Just because you guys are just a great team, is that what you're thinking? We're just in a healthier spot, so it's going to show up in the business?

[00:56:40]

Yes.

[00:56:41]

Okay. Yes. Okay. Yeah.

[00:56:45]

I- Please don't do that.

[00:56:48]

I'm going to need more evidence, business evidence, not relational evidence, that this business is really taken off, because my hope is that it But I think you need to see numbers, Jessica, first and foremost, in order to make this proclamation that, yes, it's incredible, right? So giving it another 12 months because you guys... How much are you guys making a year off of it? How much are you paying yourselves? How much will you make this year? We are paying ourselves, and with those numbers that we're paying ourselves the 6,000. 6,000 total.

[00:57:31]

A month. I'm sorry, a month.

[00:57:33]

A month. Between the both of you, total, or each individually, 6,000?

[00:57:37]

Between the both of us, total. Okay.

[00:57:39]

Your bills are 6,000. Yeah. How are you paying your bills? How are you guys eating?

[00:57:45]

So what we're paying ourselves, with what we're paying ourselves. We're just barely, barely, barely. Barely getting it by.

[00:57:54]

Okay. Yeah. Okay. So what I would do, I'm trying to think, if I woke up in your shoes and you have this belief because you've put so much sweat equity into this business, and like you said, Okay, relationally, we're killing it, and I think it's going to help in the business. Give it a try. I think continuing to try. But you guys have to make more money, and it's not going to come from the business because you're only pocketing three grand a month. From a net standpoint, you're only netting three grand a month. You're barely above water in this. You guys are going to have to find other streams of income. You're going to have to get another job. Another job? Until this this, yes, surpasses, and then you guys can go full-time back into it, where that's your only job. But you guys, I mean, I would not recommend living on that tight of a tight rope. You're walking a tight rope, basically, financially. So if I were you, I think I would feel more comfortable, yeah, having a completely another stream of income. And maybe that's him going and getting another... I mean, I know you want to work together in the business, but I don't know if you guys can afford that right now.

[00:59:00]

Yeah.

[00:59:01]

And so I would.

[00:59:03]

We could do another job.

[00:59:04]

I would. And again, my prayer is that this does take off completely, and it might. I mean, yeah. I mean, MedBed is in LA. It's great. I mean, a great market for it. I mean, it really is. So I really pray that it does. And then I pray that it's killing it. And you're like, oh, my gosh, husband, I need you back here because I am overwhelmed with work. There is so much happening. I need you back, and you're going to make more. You know what I mean? When it starts making sense for both of you to be there, that's what I would do.

[00:59:32]

And then I would not- Are you saying for him to get another job? Yeah. For him to get another job?

[00:59:35]

I would, yes.

[00:59:36]

I need to do that also.

[00:59:38]

Do what?

[00:59:40]

Would I need to do that also? Like a per diem? I'm a registered nurse, so would I do that also?

[00:59:45]

I would to start knocking out some of this debt. Yes.

[00:59:48]

Yeah, I would. Then in the meantime, so is it pretty much doing financial university again? What do we do with the people who are calling right now, the debtors, the Are you guys behind on bills? Yeah. Remember we said that... Oh, so the numbers that I was giving you was without what we owe the credit cards. So monthly, we owe 10,000 in credit cards.

[01:00:18]

And that's not getting paid?

[01:00:20]

No. For the past couple of months, we stopped.

[01:00:22]

Oh, God, sister. Yeah, lead with that next time. You got to close your MedSpa. You can't afford it. You got to go be a full-time nurse and then work all nights and weekends, too. Yeah, you're about to get sued, and they're about to start collecting on you. You owe $10,000 a month. How much credit card debt do you owe?

[01:00:42]

That number at the beginning of the week- $250,000? Yes.

[01:00:49]

Yeah. You all are in a big... This is not a time to be starting a business that nets a profit of $36,000 a year. You all need to go make a whole bunch of money right now. I guess the good news for you is you've got a golden ticket in your pocket, which is you're a registered nurse. You can go work all you want and make a bunch of money.

[01:01:12]

Yeah. I mean, you can't afford your bills right now, and That's the reality. I'm so sorry that that's what it's come down to. But I mean, you can't get behind on these credit cards that you already have for another couple of months. So, yeah, both of you are going to have to get full-time jobs outside the med spa. Then maybe this dream can come back into fruition down the road, but it's not a reality today. You can't do it. I'm so sorry.

[01:01:40]

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[01:03:35]

Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. When it comes to getting your money in order for the new year, there's really one foundational place principle that you have to have when it comes to getting control of your money, and that is a budget. And so when it comes to budgeting, when it comes to everything else of getting yourself in control of your money, we're going to talk about all of that on our livestream on January 23rd. It is a free livestream called Take Control of Your Money. It's hosted by Dave Ramsey and Jade Warshaw. And it's this idea of paycheck-to-paycheck living is such a reality for so many people. And to break that cycle, to do something different, there are elements of budgeting. There's elements of getting out of debt. There's elements of looking towards the future and how you're going to build wealth. I mean, all of this is so, so key when it comes to winning with money. And so this Live stream is for you. And George Campbell and myself, we're going to be joining the live stream a little bit into it, and we're going to do some live Q&A. And so you'll be able to ask your questions, and we can answer them right there.

[01:04:42]

And when you sign up, you'll be entered to win our cash giveaway. So we're giving five people $4,000 each. So make sure you sign up at ramsey solutions. Com/livestream, or click the link in the description if you're listening on podcast or watching on YouTube. Again, that is January Every 23rd. It's our free livestream for the new year, kicking it off. And it's all about taking control of your money. All right, let's go to the phones and go to Katherine in Bellevue, Washington. Hey, Katherine, welcome to the show.

[01:05:15]

Hi. Thank you for taking my call.

[01:05:17]

Yes, absolutely. How can we help?

[01:05:20]

I am looking for a little advice on building my retirement starting at 42 years old.

[01:05:27]

All right. Great. Okay, what are your questions around it?

[01:05:33]

Basically, I just don't really know where to begin. There's so much information out there and where to get started, and I don't have any support at work as far as 401k's or Roth IRAs or anything like that.

[01:05:51]

Okay, so your company does not offer a 401k? Correct. Correct. Okay. So really, the two best streams. Do you own the business or you're an employee?

[01:06:02]

I'm an employee. I'm a nanny and a house manager for a celebrity up here.

[01:06:07]

Oh, okay. That's great. Yeah. Okay. How much are you making a year?

[01:06:13]

A hundred and fifty.

[01:06:14]

Okay. Yeah. For you, are you a 10… Why am I blanking? A 1099? 1099. 1099. Thank you.

[01:06:27]

I collect a W2 every year.

[01:06:30]

Okay. Yeah.

[01:06:31]

Do you have an LLC? No. Could you apply for a SAP? Or is it just you're just a W2 employee going right into your- I'm a W2 employee.

[01:06:40]

Yeah, it's a massive… They have a pretty massive network, so I'm one of probably 300 employees. Okay.

[01:06:47]

All right. Okay. Yeah, I was going to say because if you were able to get around that in any way, you could do a self-funded 401k or something for self-employed, but I don't think that would work with the W-2.

[01:06:59]

Does your employer offer 401?

[01:07:02]

No. Okay.

[01:07:03]

Katherine, if I were you, I would do the Roth IRA. Because I think it's 121,000 this year, or I'm not sure in 2025. If you make above that, you're going to have to what's called a backdoor Roth IRA. If you make above that income limit, which you do, you're going to have to just do what's called a backdoor Roth. If you sit down with a smart investor pro, we can get you connected to one or at least look at options in your area after this call. But what you'll do is basically open up a traditional Roth, and they're all their fancy signages and all the things. You basically sign back over, and you just basically turn it right into a Roth right there at that sitting. It just takes some signatures, and it's completely illegal, but it's just called the Backdoor Roth IRA. That's an option that you can do. You can put up to $7,000 in that. Then above that, from a tax perspective, there's not a ton you could do. I mean, I would be investing. Looking into just some good growth stock mutual funds and putting some money away. Here's the key, is 15% of your income is what you want to be investing.

[01:08:15]

Once you max out that Roth, and then I would look above that and say, Okay, what's left of that 15 %? And then I probably would. You can do even an index fund or just a mutual fund. But when you sit down with a SmartVestor Pro, they can really help you with that because the tax advantage is not great. You will pay taxes when you take that money out at retirement, which the Roth you won't, you'll be paying taxes before that. That's the sucky part of it. But I don't know any other great option when it comes to that. That's what I would do, though. But I would continue to invest that 15%. Do you have any debt?

[01:08:53]

I don't have any debt.

[01:08:54]

Okay, that's great. Yeah. Our formula, just so you know, Katherine, what we say is match beats Roth beats traditional. You always want to start with the match of a 401k. You don't have that. That means you'll just jump over to the Roth, max out the Roth, and then anything else, you'll just go to any type of traditional account. But there's not really great in the retirement lane for you that I can think of. But again, I would sit down with the SmartVestor Pro and look at all of your options. But if I were you… I mean, even, do you have a HSA?

[01:09:26]

No, I don't.

[01:09:27]

Okay. Any health insurance at all?

[01:09:30]

I do have health insurance, yes. I just don't have the savings account. Okay.

[01:09:34]

With it. Okay. Yeah, because that's another option. You could put some money and let that grow and cash flow some medical expenses. That would be another avenue. But yeah.

[01:09:43]

Okay.

[01:09:45]

Yeah, that's what I would do if I were you.

[01:09:47]

The combination of those two things, the backdoor Roth and the 15%, will get me to the finish line in retirement.

[01:09:55]

Yeah, absolutely. It should. Again, I want you to run your numbers. I don't have a computer right here. I'm 42. I'm 42.

[01:10:01]

How long do you think you're going to make 170 grand?

[01:10:05]

There's lots of money to be made up here, so as long as I'm healthy and strong, I can do it.

[01:10:12]

You're single, Katherine, did you say? Yes. Okay, perfect. If you go to ramsey solutions. Com and just Google Ramsey Solutions' investment calculator and put that in, put in your numbers, it's actually very encouraging. Compound interest will shock you more.

[01:10:27]

I'll do it for you right now. What's your name right now? I mean, I'm sorry. What's your age right now? 42. 42.

[01:10:33]

42.

[01:10:33]

All right. Let's pretend you worked until 67. How much do you have in investments right now?

[01:10:39]

Nothing. I'm starting at zero right now.

[01:10:41]

Starting at zero. Okay. What's, Rachel, what is 15%?

[01:10:45]

Yeah, you'll get about 30.

[01:10:47]

About 30? A year you put away? Yeah. Okay. If you put away 30,000 and your annual return.

[01:10:56]

Let's just say 10%. Put zero at that red. Oh, yeah.

[01:11:01]

All right. I'm doing this for you with the Ramsey investment calculator. Good gosh. If you put away, is that right, $30,000 between now and '67, and your annual return is about 10%?

[01:11:14]

Well, I guess 30 would be on 200,000. Sorry. Put 25.

[01:11:18]

It's being conservative. I'll put 20 just for fun. If you'll put $20,000 a year and you make 10% return on that from 42- Is that monthly? Monthly, I was like, Oh, my gosh, we're all going to be- You'll have two and a half million dollars.

[01:11:36]

Oh, wow. Okay.

[01:11:37]

Yeah. That's if you put- That's pretty conservative. That's very conservative. If you put $2,000 a month in retirement, and you put that away. Making 170 with no debt, you can put more than that. If you feel comfortable doing a little catch-up, we're okay with that, too. I would be a little bit paranoid being 42 with nothing. I'd want to see that quicker. I might If I have no bills and no expenses, and I'm 170 plus a house manager, which means some of my meals might get covered, that means some of my bills might get covered, I might take that money and roll it over. But hopefully, you hear the main thing here is intentionality with every penny you got.

[01:12:16]

Yeah, for sure. Katherine, I would really encourage you to sit down with the SmartVestor Pro. I do this once a year, my husband and I do to look at retirement, run these numbers. Again, I give them so much credit because I swear every time we go, there's some new thing that they're teaching me. And they're like, Oh, yeah, this with this text thing here, and you can do this with your giving. They live and breathe this stuff, and they can be so, so helpful and just give you the confidence to know, Okay, this is my plan. It doesn't have to be too complicated. I can set something up, and I'm going to be great. You're doing great, Katherine. You've done an excellent job up until now, so that's awesome. If you stay on the line, Katherine, I'll have Christian pick up and just make sure you get that website to our Smart Investor pros and interview a couple there in that Seattle area and find one that you trust and that you love and start investing. Excited for you, Katherine. This is the Ramsey Show.

[01:13:12]

Hey, guys. I've got a big announcement. George Campbell and I are bringing back Investing Essentials, our two-night virtual event, deep diving into investing and real estate. Learn step by step how to get the most out of your 401k mutual funds and real estate investments because there's no better time to get the clarity you need to invest with confidence. Watch live on March fourth and fifth. Get tickets today at ramsey solutions. Com/events.

[01:13:45]

Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. We're taking a call now from our Ramsey Network app, and this question comes from Cassie.

[01:13:58]

All right, let's see here from Cassie. I was listening to an older episode recently, and it sparked a question. The caller was a young man with a family well on the journey to financial freedom. The host congratulated him for doing so well and encouraged him to stay the course, and he said he couldn't wait to plan a wonderful vacation in the future. Shouldn't there be some room for fun and joyful living while on the journey? Seems like most of your callers are so focused on the goal, they forget to have fun.

[01:14:27]

Oh, Cassie. Well.

[01:14:29]

That Ramsey in Latin means fun ruiner.

[01:14:34]

We hate fun around here. We don't want you to have any fun. I think it'd be your definition of fun. I've just become such a huge fan of Arthur Brooks recently. The best. He's just the best. He talks about in the latter part of your life, the second half of your life, the people that really do have the most joy is when their wants become smaller and smaller. It's not like, What's my next thing to get? It's actually, Oh, yeah. I just don't need as much as I thought I did, the joy in that. What I would say, Cassie, is during a time of sacrifice, of getting out of debt, it's not forever. On average, 18 to 24 months. Could be longer, three years of your life. Maybe your joy in what you consider fun looks different. In America today, fun is getting a new car, going on a trip. You know what I mean? There's a level of fun that I think we all are just like, Oh, yeah, fun, fun, fun. But what if fun is different? What if fun is having friends over, which we're doing tomorrow night on a Friday night, order some pizzas, game nights, kids watch a movie after, have adults hang out, and you're at a house, you're not paying 100 plus at a restaurant to take everyone out.

[01:15:39]

You just you switch things up.

[01:15:41]

I don't think it's not about- Instead of paying for a big fancy date, my wife and I, when we We'd go for long hikes, and we had hard conversations, and we had fun conversations, and we laughed a lot. It just looks different. I think, Cassie, here, underneath this question, what it sounds is, Hey, it looks like getting out of debt when you go scorched earth is really hard. The answer to that is yes. We will all tell you, if you owe a bank, if a bank is running your marriage and a bank is running your life and a car dealership is running your work life because you have an abusive boss, but you can't quit because you already have that car that you promised the car company you'd pay back, I don't care how much little sparkly vacations you're going on. You're not having fun. Your body is in fight or flight. It's trying to survive. And so, yes, for two years, for three years, sometimes, Jade's case, seven years, right? Yeah, right. Yes, it has scorched Earth. The goal is to get to safety. Then you get to safety, man. Yeah, of course. I don't know.

[01:16:47]

I don't know that you'll find a group of people that have more fun than we do. We're pretty off the rails, and fun looks different for everybody. I'm in the woods. You all are going on trips. Jade. Everybody's doing stuff. George is wiping his dog's butts because that's what George does. But Dave's in Cabo. We're all over the place having so much fun.

[01:17:08]

But our fun is not having us. That's right. When you have the fun, that's being all loans and owed by all these banks and stuff. I think that's a great point, John. That's not fun. It's not fun. Again, I want to expand our viewpoint of fun. I just think we get such in this rat in a wheel. New purse, new thing. I don't know. It's all this stuff They were like, Oh, that's fun. I'm like, Is it really, though? Is it really? Is it really life-giving? Because the life-giving stuff probably isn't going to cost you a ton.

[01:17:36]

We know that the research says that no. There's only so many purses you can have. That's right. Now, except for guitars and really fancy hunting rifles, Yeah, then those bring so much joy. Adding those do bring extra joy to your life. So much joy. That's just science.

[01:17:51]

Just #science. It's in the brain. It's in the brain.

[01:17:53]

All right. Let's go to Indianapolis and talk to Sarah with an H. What's up, Sarah?

[01:17:58]

Hey, Sarah.

[01:17:59]

Yes, hello. How are you guys doing?

[01:18:01]

We're doing all right. How about you?

[01:18:04]

Okay. Now, until 48 hours ago, I felt okay about my situation. Then I started watching your program on YouTube, and now I'm freaking out. I want to get some feedback here.

[01:18:15]

Okay, perfect.

[01:18:15]

Hold on, hold on, Sarah, Sarah, Sarah, are you doing me a huge favor? Excuse me? Do me a huge favor. Take a humongous deep breath as deep as you can.

[01:18:23]

Okay. Hold it. Okay.

[01:18:25]

Five, four, three, two. Let it out. Okay. All right. We're on your team. We're on your team. All right. What's keeping you up at night?

[01:18:35]

Okay. Now, I've been in a difficult marriage since day one. In 2012, I filed for divorce. Then to get a peaceful divorce without really any problems, I had to give up mainly everything. All I got was a car, $10,000, and I had a child support. I had to give up everything else. My father helped me, and I was able to get house, and everything moved on okay. But under pressure, we got back together. We stayed together for maybe four years or so. Things were going okay, so we decided to get married. Remarried. During that period…

[01:19:19]

Excuse me? Remarried? Are you talking about your ex? Or a different guy?

[01:19:25]

No, not a different guy. The same guy.

[01:19:27]

Same guy. Same guy. So you got remarried.

[01:19:28]

You got remarried in what? 2018, 2019?

[01:19:32]

Okay. Around 2019. 2018, 2019. Then during that time, my husband was paying the bills on his house because he did not sell his house, and I was paying all the bills on this house I'm living in. Now, when he sold his house, he started paying the bills on this house. Now, after we got married, things got worse again, and it's not working out. I'm going to find for divorce again. My kids now graduated. They have their own lives. I see it's going to be easier to get a divorce. The same thing here. He said, If you go to court, I'm going to fight you over the house because it's in my name, and I'm going to make everything difficult. I decided, guess what? Let's just get a divorce. I don't want anything from you, and I'll just keep my stuff. I forgot to say something. When we got back together, our finances stayed separate. We no longer have the same bank account or anything. We're totally separate.

[01:20:34]

But what house is he going to fight you over? The one that you and your father purchased together? Yes. Why is his name on that home?

[01:20:42]

No, his name is not on the home.

[01:20:43]

Okay, yeah. What's your question? We're coming up against the clock. Tell them good luck. What's your question?

[01:20:49]

My question is, my plan was, now I'm going to keep the house, and I have $100,000 in the bank. I had it in a CD, but I got some advice from the bank, and they said, You can invest it in the market, and it can get you money and stuff. I was wondering whether I will be able to be independent on my own because he's the one who brings most of the money, not me.

[01:21:19]

Yes. If you get divorced, you have $100,000. I won't get into the investment side of it. You have $100,000. If you get divorced, the first thing you need to do is to create your own checking account and your own budget. I do. Ask, Where is money coming from that I'm going to use to survive? Pay my bills. Do you have a job? Okay.

[01:21:42]

Yes. I'm a teacher. I have a master's degree. I'm a teacher.

[01:21:46]

Amazing. My wife's a lifelong teacher. Amazing. What you're going to have to do is to create a world where what you make as a teacher funds your life, pays your house note, whatever your It's your remaining mortgage is, pays your light bill, your electric bill, your food, and any travel you're going to see to go see your grandkids whenever your kids have babies. The $100,000 should be invested. I want you to get with a smart investor pro. If you hang on the line, we'll get you connected there, okay?

[01:22:15]

Should I cut on everything as long as I have a mortgage, or can I spend money, for example, go get my hair done, get my- It's going to all depend on you sitting down and doing a budget.

[01:22:24]

Yes. Sarah, what I would live off of, I would keep this $100,000. I would take some of it out of the market for an emergency fund. I would get six months of your... Well, four-ish months of your expenses. You have to do a budget with John saying, and you have to say, Okay, here's how much food costs, here's how much my mortgage is, here's how much the lights are going to be. Here is everything that I spend money on in the month. This is how much it's going to take me to live? You have to make sure that the salary you make, that your income every month, can cover those bills. Ideally, that you have margin, and you're not living right up to that paycheck. Having that margin is going to be really key. And so that That's going to be step one. Then from there, I would multiply that by four, whatever that number is, take some of that cash from that 100,000, put it in a high-yield savings account for a emergency fund, and then start thinking about investing above that.

[01:23:14]

Hang on a lot here, so get you hooked up with a Smart Investor Pro. Actually, we're going to pay for you to have one session with one of our financial coaches, and they'll walk you through the budgeting part of this. Hang on the line. We'll get you taken care of.

[01:23:50]

Hey, what's up, guys? Episode 2 of 90 Day Money Makeover is available right now on YouTube. This series follows real people as they take on the challenge of transforming their finances and their lives in just 90 days. In this episode, watch as they face new obstacles, celebrate wins, and push forward on their journey. And of course, I'll be walking alongside them every step of the way. Okay, Today. Now, here's a little sneak peek of what the new episode is all about. Me and Dara, back in November, have a new son, a baby boy. We have $87,000 in debt. I've been in debt since I I was 18 years old.

[01:24:32]

I gave birth to him. I knew, I said, I cannot leave him with someone that I don't know. I don't care if we're eating rice and beans, Sean, I told him.

[01:24:40]

There was no going back. When you guys called into the Ramsey show, it was like, I think that we should push them harder. Baby Jonathan being born is a wake-up call for us to finally change. I can't go on another month. Wake-up call. For the next 20 years, this is important.

[01:25:00]

We got to get this right.

[01:25:02]

You want to pay off your debt. You want to get your time back. You want to get your home. Nothing usurfs those three..