Well, hello, boys and girls, ladies and germs, this is Tim Ferriss, and welcome to another episode of the Tim Ferris show, where it is my job to deconstruct world class performers of all different types, to tease out their routines, habits, influences, books, techniques, tactics, cetera that you can use or apply to your own life. This episode is going to be different, and I have a surprise for you. Many of you have heard my interview with the superhuman Adam Grant, which was one of the most popular interviews of 2013.

I titled that podcast, The Man Who Does Everything because Adam seems to accomplish more than the next 10 people combined. His colleagues are kind of mystified by it, and he has built systems and habits that allow him to do this. That's the important part. So it's not just that he came out of the womb with these abilities. He trained these abilities and he has systems. He and I share an intense interest in just how far and easily you can train your memory to do things that seem completely impossible.

That's what this episode will focus on. So it's going to be very, very tactical, very practical for those who don't know Adam.

Adam is an expert in how we can find motivation and meaning and lead more generous and creative lives. He is an organizational psychologist at Wharton, where he's been the top rated professor for seven straight years. He's the number one New York Times best selling author, four books that have been translated into 35 or so languages. Give and take originals option B and Power Moves. His TED talks have been viewed more than 20 million times. His speaking and consulting clients include Google, the NBA and the Gates Foundation.

Just to give you an idea of the spectrum, he's been recognized as one of the world's ten most influential management thinkers, is one of Fortune's 40 under 40 and a World Economic Forum young global leader. He's received distinguished scientific achievement awards from the American Psychological Association and the National Science Foundation. It just goes on and on. The good news is that, like I said, this isn't all freakish genes and good luck. Adam uses uncommon tools and strategies for getting all this done.

You can find our previous episode about a lot of this at Timko blogger Adam Grant. Adam now has his own podcast with Ted called Work Life, in which he takes you inside the minds of some of the world's most unusual professionals to explore the science of making work, not suck. Put another way, how do you make work actually work for you? To that end, I wanted to share an episode of Adam's podcast that I really enjoyed titled How to Remember Anything.

It is highly tactical and you can just listen to the first five minutes to get an example of just how incredible you can hone your memory with the proper approach and tools. One last thing. For legal reasons, we didn't have the flexibility to remove any Midle ads. So Accenture, this one is on me. You're most welcome. And to those listening, please enjoy the episode. You can subscribe to Work Life with Adam Grant wherever you get your podcasts.

This episode is brought to you by Five Bullet Friday, my very own email newsletter. It's become one of the most popular email newsletters in the world with millions of subscribers. And it's super, super simple.

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Well, that red light, red light, right, 2016 was supposed to be a good year in the NFL for the Rams, they were relocating back from St. Louis to Los Angeles. A fresh start, a new home. But they only won four games and lost 12. They stink and they hadn't had a winning season in 14 years, but the next year, 2017, things were different.

When you find a way to come on the road. Finish up your road. Record seven and one and win a division. There's only one thing you could say.

The following season, the Rams win 13 out of 16 games, tying for the best record in football. They make it all the way to the Super Bowl. Their secret weapon, the Rams, had hired a new head coach, Sean McVay. He was just 30 years old, the youngest NFL coach since nineteen thirty eight. His secret weapon, his memory.

We saw you on television and you remembered a ton of plays. Sean McVay can recall Anchorman almost any moment he's ever seen on a football field. Listen to him being grilled by a couple of sports reporters about completely random players from past seasons. Week 12 Saints at Rams for twenty nine in the second quarter. Second and seven on the Saints seven. What happened? Oh, Josh Reynolds. Touchdown off schedule players a three man rush. You're absolutely you kidding me?

You're unbelievable.

You don't need to know the playbook or understand the lingo to hear that this is sort of crazy.

Now we are going to get back to twenty fifteen weeks, seven bucks at Skins, second and seven on the Tampa Bay. Twenty four, fifty eight seconds left in the fourth quarter.

Jamison Crowder will roll down the right side.

Jamison Crowder. We were out there on the right sideline. S the first down. And then how did that drive end. Ordinary touchdown and a four by one individual ISO's slant. Check out the brain on. Sure amazing.

He even remembers players going back six years when he was in the state semifinals in high school.

This kind of recall gives him a big edge as a coach when he needs to make a quick decision with the game on the line. He has an entire library of successes and mistakes at his fingertips. Sean McVay is clearly a savant. But memory is not just an innate talent. You can strengthen yours like a muscle. Your team can use it to pump up creativity and boost sales. And just maybe we can all figure out exactly where we left our car keys.

I'm Adam Grant and this is WorkLife, my podcast with Ted, I'm an organizational psychologist, I study how to make work, not suck in this show.

I'm inviting myself inside the minds of some truly unusual people because they've mastered something. I wish everyone knew about work today, memory, how to make your own recall stronger and how to build your organization's memory to. Thanks to Accenture for sponsoring this episode. Through most of human history, the most valuable people to have in your tribe were the ones with great memories, even in the era of cavemen. Your life depended on that friend who remembered which mushroom was poisonous or where to find water in a drought.

As civilizations developed, you needed to remember which merchants were trustworthy and which guilds were hostile in Lincoln's era.

A mark of a well-read person was the ability to quote at length from many sources.

Now you're probably in the habit of outsourcing your memory to electronic devices, but the ability to retain and recall information in your head is still crucial.

One, it helps you establish expertise under uncertainty if a car salesperson knows safety specs off the top of her head, you'll assume she knows what she's talking about to having a good memory is essential for making fast decisions when a patient goes into cardiac arrest during a procedure.

Surgeons don't have time to run a Google search about what to do. And three, memory helps you build and maintain relationships. You expect a financial planner to remember your risk preferences. You want a therapist to recall how your world view was shaped by your weird family. And before a performance review, you hope your boss hasn't forgotten all the good work you've done.

As a professor, I've always encouraged my students to develop their memories. The problem was when they'd ask how I didn't really have a good answer. Then I came across this guy.

I've been known to be, well, a little bit forgetful.

Joshua Foer is a science journalist. For as long as he could remember, he'd had a terrible memory. What are the things that you've always had the hardest time remembering? Let's see, like, why I just open the refrigerator to put the toilet seat back down just about every important anniversary and birthday of family members.

I think maybe I've forgotten some of the things that I've forgotten.

Back in 2005, Josh got an odd reporting assignment.

Slate magazine sends me to go cover this wacky sounding contest called the United States Memory Championship.

The USA Memory Championship, which I observed were these competitive memorizers who had remarkable abilities. They could see photos of 100 strangers and remember all their names. Twenty minutes later, they could commit hundreds of random numbers to memory in just 15 minutes, and they could repeat the sequence of a whole deck of shuffled playing cards after looking at it for only five minutes. How does a person do that? I figure these are going to be like a bunch of freakish savants, rain men basically who have these incredible memories.

And what I discover is something totally different. They are just like normal people with normal memories and that they've trained themselves using a set of ancient techniques to become these memory champions. And they wanted to find out whether I could do that to.

So Josh, with his spotty memory, started training with a master of the sport and eventually wrote a book about the experience called Moonwalking with Einstein, they weren't making this up.

It is absolutely true that when you learn these memory techniques, you can perform astounding feats of memory. And this is verified not just by my own experience, but by like 2500 years of history of people using these techniques and by a whole bunch of science. Incredible memory capacities are latent inside of all of us if we sort of use the right techniques to awaken them. So how do these champion memorizers do memory?

A lot of the earliest accounts that we have of memory techniques come from books, on oratory, on how to be a persuasive speaker. And, you know, like when Cicero was getting up in the Roman Senate to deliver his stem winders, he was doing that from memory. If you want to memorize a speech, don't try and memorize it word for word, because that's just going of like it's going to make you sound robotic. You're going to, you know, forget the next word.

That's not a good way to speak persuasively. What you should do is create an image of each of the topics that you want to talk about in your speech. Put the images of those topics into a memory palace, a memory palace, because abstract words, numbers and ideas get stickier when you connect them to a concrete image and a familiar place.

So pick a place that you know well and mentally attach things you want to remember to vivid images inside the different rooms, you create a wild, crazy, funny, colorful, bizarre, grotesque image in your mind's eye of each word in a list of random words you're trying to memorize. And you visualize that image in a different room of your house and you walk through your house creating these images. And when it comes time to recall the information, you just walk back to your house.

And what you find is that the images are in the rooms where you left them. And I know that doesn't sound like it would work. Yeah, it sounds a little ridiculous.

It didn't sound to me like it would work the first time I heard about this. But it's remarkably effective. And what you find is that you can like almost immediately after learning this trick, you can memorize really long strings of information.

You know, memorizing 100 random words in perfect order is almost trivial once you know this trick.

The key is a sense of place. Place really matters in memory. In a classic experiment, psychologists recruited a bunch of scuba divers to learn a few dozen new words. The divers learned some words on dry land and others underwater. Twenty four hours later, they were tested for recall. If divers had learned words underwater, they had a much harder time recalling them on dry land and vice versa. They were able to remember 30 to 60 percent more of the words when they were in the setting where they had originally learned them.

So being back in the place where you learn something is where you find cues to help you retrieve it. And you can simulate that effect with a memory palace. If you put something in a particular place in your mind, you can revisit that place mentally at any time. Josh's go to Memory Palace is the home where he grew up in D.C., you know, I can walk in the door, I can see the black paint on the door and the the brass mail slot and I open it and there's this walnut credenza and floor made out of stone.

And so when I create these visual images in that home, they are just like. Sticky there, they become attached to all of these other memories that I have about that house, and so what I do, if I'm like, let's say memorizing a shopping list, and I have to remember that the first item on the list is milk. Say I walk in that house and I would picture myself pouring a gallon of milk, maybe over my mother's head in that entryway of the house.

And I picture the dairy dripping down her head and like what that would smell like and how and how she would be really annoyed about it. And like the more emotion and color you can attach to that image, the more likely it is that when I walk back through that house again later, I will be like, oh, you're right. Yes. In the foyer of the four house is my mother dripping with milk. I have to pick up milk from the grocery store.

So does that mean you spend a few weeks a year just like wandering through buildings and telling them, like the house you grew up in?

So there was a time I mean, especially during this year when I was training my memory, where I was basically a collector of architecture so that I would have this whole kind of city of memory palaces available to me in the competition. Nice.

And so in a year of practicing that, you went from a journalist with a bad memory to what?

Well, so the punchline of the story is I became the United States memory champion.

So if you're interested in improving your memory, there's no one better to learn from the forgetful guy who became the American memory champ in a year. So you want to remember someone's name, what should you do?

Come up with some sort of a an association between the sound of a person's name and some aspect of their physical being? So what you're doing when you meet somebody is you're looking at them and saying like, hey, what's distinct about this person's physical presence? Something about their hair or something about their eyebrows, something about the truth is you're looking for like what is weird about this person, which means that to do this well, you have to be a kind of judgmental schmuck.

Pop quiz. Do you remember Josh's last name? I said it a few minutes ago when I introduced him. But in case you need a refresher, here's how Josh approaches it.

If I wanted to remember my last name for well, it sounds an awful lot like the number four. I would look at myself and say, you know, well, I'm going to carve a number for into his head with a with a little butcher knife.

And I'm going to picture the blood dripping down his face again. The more color I can put into this image, the more likely it is I'm going to remember it later.

And what I've done is I just created an association between this name, which otherwise wouldn't mean anything to me and this guy's face. And that's not a guarantee that I'm going to remember that name later on. But what it's done is given me just like a little hook that makes it that much more likely that when I run into this person at a later date, I'm going to be able to fish their name back out.

It's obviously a fun parlor trick, but have you use this in your job at all to remember people's names or anything about their families or, you know, any arcane details like that?

Yeah, I certainly try to.

There have been a few really delightful moments when I have remembered, like, not just somebody's name, but like the name of their kid or some just esoteric detail that they had dropped into conversation where I can give myself a big pat on the back because like, you know, the truth is when you remember something about somebody, you are demonstrating to them that you care.

Think about your favorite teachers. They're usually the ones who remember not only your name, but your interests and talents. I bet they also had a wealth of information at their fingertips, they could answer seemingly any question by reciting a compelling idea, quote, or data point from memory. One of the things that is true about memory is we develop great memories for domains in which we have a rich knowledge base. So it's like not a coincidence that, you know, if you are an American history professor, you're going have a great memory for facts about American history.

You're going be able to integrate new facts that you learn about American history into your memory much more easily because you can make more associations.

You can see this in studies of chess players. Researchers position chess pieces around the board and asked both chess masters and amateurs to study the board for five seconds.

Then they asked both groups to recall the positions of the pieces from memory.

The beginners made tons of mistakes, only correctly remembering the locations of a few pieces, chess masters were able to do it with stunning accuracy. They could perfectly recall the positions of more than 20 pieces.

The logical conclusion, having a great memory makes you a better chess player, just like Sean McVay. In football, you have immediate access to a personal library of past games to guide your current decisions.

But what happened when researchers scrambled the board, putting the pieces in places where they'd never land in a real game? Suddenly the experts were no better than the beginners.

It turns out that experts don't necessarily have superior memories overall. They build up memories of specific patterns from years of experience.

Everybody has a great memory for something, and it is usually the thing that you care the most about that you're most interested in, that you've got the richest knowledge base for for me in second grade.

That was baseball. I remember my teacher being surprised that I could recall not only the names, but also the batting averages of every player on the Detroit Tigers. My friends made fun of me for it. They called me Mr. FACT's. Apparently, it was annoying then, but it comes in handy now because my job is to be Mr. Facts and the interest I have today in remembering psychology studies is pretty similar to how I felt as a kid about baseball stats.

Your team or company has lots of people with deep memories of what's worked and what hasn't. All working under one roof.

It's a huge pool of information potentially at your fingertips, and it's the raw material from which creative ideas can emerge if you can figure out how to access it.

More on that after the break.

OK, this is going to be a different kind of that.

I've played a personal role in selecting the sponsors for this podcast because they all have interesting cultures of their own. Today, we're going inside the workplace at Accenture.

Research shows that when people have to put up a facade at work, they're more likely to feel emotionally exhausted and burned out, but when they have the freedom to express their values, they feel energized.

That five, 10 minutes that I go pray and I come back, I'm recharged all over again.

That's Asma Qasim. She's a devout Muslim.

I use religion not as just an institutionalised mechanism, but more as a way of living, because I think that in all religions the core is to be a good person, you know, to treat others with love and kindness and compassion.

Asma immigrated to Canada in the 1990s. She was a small child. Her parents were fleeing a war.

I was actually born in Afghanistan and Kabul. Do you remember anything about about your time in Afghanistan? I do remember one vivid memory I have, which is we were in these trucks trying to escape and they were hiding people under blankets and whatnot because there were always war zone areas. Wow. Gosh, I'm sorry you had to go through that.

Thank you. Her father eventually became an entrepreneur and her mother studied engineering. USMA followed in their footsteps.

She worked in tech and startups for years and was always wary of big companies.

I had assumptions when I came in and I was very hesitant. I have to say to you, because I was like, I'm not going to feel like I could fit in. But Osmo was intrigued by Accenture's newly formed Canada innovation hub.

She reached out to the head of technology there who invited her to Accenture's office in downtown Toronto.

When I came in, I was so delighted to see the amount of diverse backgrounds. You know, they were wearing hijab. They were different skin colors. And it was nice to see them around a table in an open space talking.

And after those exploratory meetings, the girl that was working at reception that she told me in my language, she said, I hope that you join this firm. It's a good place to work. And she said it to me in Farsi.

You know, Asma eventually got a job at Accenture as a digital transformation manager. On her first day, she asked a co-worker whether there was a place she could pray.

I thought she was honestly going to take me to like a small little cubicle. She took me to a room. Then I looked inside and we had an ablution area.

Ozma was taken aback by the level of care Accenture had put into getting the prayer room right. They didn't just have a place where Muslims could wash up before prayer. They also had prayer mats and dividers for people to pray separately.

And I took a picture and I sent it to my mom and it really reiterated my decision that I made a good decision. It's one thing to say the word diverse. It's another thing to do it. Bringing your whole self to work is like you're flying because you are not only productive, you're happier and you're engaged in the work that you do because you now feel like you don't have to worry about those things that are so close and dear to. You don't have to hold them so close and dear to any more than you have to protect them.

You can now share them with people around you. Accenture is working to become one of the most truly human companies in the digital age. Learn more at Accenture dotcom slash careers.

A great memory is a strong advantage in any workplace, but even stronger is a group with a great memory group. Memory is a roadmap to learning from the past, helps you access good ideas that might have been forgotten and avoid repeating strategies that have already tanked. There are a lot of efforts to create sort of knowledge, repositories or databases of past solutions.

Andrew Hargadine is a technology management expert at UC Davis. He studies how organizations create and use knowledge.

Consulting firms will have large databases of every presentation they've ever given to a client. And what was interesting about those was often how little people use them, if at all, they use them. As essentially a glorified YellowPages to figure out who had done something related and then they would immediately call those people, but people change jobs, they change firms, they retire.

What do you do when there's no one left to call? You need systems for storing and retrieving this kind of information so it's not lost when the person who knows it is lost, you need an organizational memory. Organizational memory is the collection of every product and campaign and strategy that a company has tried. As you can probably guess, a collection like that gets messy fast.

When we talk about organizations memory, we we think of it like a computer where there's a file stored somewhere and we just need to track it down. But in terms particularly of smaller groups and teams, collective memory is more like a human memory. It's not always that simple to to retrieve the right memory at the right time.

It gets even harder as your organization gets older. The story of past knowledge is richer and the people who created it are long gone. So what is the organizational memory of a century old company look like? It looks like Raiders of the Lost Ark. Indiana Jones style, thousands of boxes, hundreds of thousands of photographic prints, thousands of material samples. Probably almost a hundred pieces of furniture, we're in southwest Michigan at a furniture company called Herman Miller. They produced some of the most iconic pieces of furniture for working home in the 20th century, the Aeron chair, the Noguchi table, the OEM's lounge, and love it or hate it, the office cubicle.

So in this, Amy Asherman is their corporate archivist. She took us on a tour of Herman Miller's memory fire safe door.

We have every ad that Herman Miller has produced starting from 1931 to now.

So here's an advertisement from the October 8th, 1949 issue of The New Yorker, America's foremost collection of modern furniture, sculpture and wood and glass.

That's cool.

Herman Miller is 114 years old. Its organizational memory is all the information and knowledge that's built up in that time.

Amy's job is to make sense out of all of it. I sometimes call myself the fancy dumpster because people will find old product and recognize that it's old, thankfully, and say, oh, I should go to Amy.

There are drawers full of old templates, shelves full of old pieces of furniture. But there are also the stories that people tell about the place and the histories of various collaborations that resulted in products and ads. And all of that past can be drawn on when inventing the company's future.

Should we go in the vault chairs everywhere?

Many of the company's most popular pieces were first designed after World War Two. This like kind of the Furniture Hall of Fame and here seems wired chairs of Top O 1922.

It smells like vinegar and it's probably not a good thing. This chair was designed for the very top of the time life building in New York.

The engineers and designers that Herman Miller have to evolve their products to suit changes in taste and newer forms of production and marketing, all while staying consistent with their historic look and feel.

And to do all those things they had for the archives, the role of an archivist becomes important for collecting the ideas of the past, adding the ideas of the present and finding creative ways of combining the two.

It's hard for me to imagine a week that goes by that I don't have some kind of conversation with Amy in our archives.

Ben Watson is the chief creative officer at Herman Miller about a product that hasn't seen the light of day for decades, are a part of the organization that no longer exists.

A few years ago, the company relaunched the Herman Miller collection of home and office furniture. It was based on the modern looking pieces that had originally made Herman Miller a big name in the 50s.

So the design team looked back to its origins by opening the archive, which included not only catalogs from every year, but actual sketches and diagrams of designs that were never produced, variants of designs that were long since forgotten. We uncovered all kinds of solutions that the so-called experts didn't know anything about, and many of those discoveries led us to produce new ideas that became part of the collection, which today is a growing and thriving part of our business with significant amount of revenue.

We found a lot of products that had a lot of resonance for today that we'd all forgotten about.

Your workplace probably doesn't have an archivist, but you can play that role in your team, especially if you're doing creative work, because although innovation can seem like a bolt from the blue, it's often the result of remembering ideas from one setting and applying them to another.

Most innovations aren't novel ideas. They're simply ideas that a new audience hasn't heard yet.

Andrew Hakkinen has found that it's critical to organize and access memories of what's worked and what hasn't.

People who study organizations recognize, obviously that that organizations do things over and over and they often get good at things and they keep the good things and they embed them somehow in the organization. They set up standard operating procedures. They set up routines.

Apparently at one car supplier, engineers spend almost a third of their time solving issues that had already been solved elsewhere in their company. A good memory system can prevent that by making it easy for people to access existing solutions, but the challenge comes in when we need to distinguish between doing the same thing over and over. And doing different things and memory plays a key role in both of those, if we did something right and we want to keep doing it, we want to support that behavior and we want to encode it, sort of record it and play it back again.

But we also want to misremember them when we start to come up with or start to look for new solutions. And that's where memory can play the second role, which is give us that big grab bag of things we've seen in the past that could be used in a different way again later to understand how organizations draw on the memories of old products to solve new problems.

Andrew studied the creative firm Design Continuum. A medical company had tasked them with designing something called a pulsed lavage pulsed lavage.

It's an emergency room tool that. Creates a high pressure pulse of saline solution, and it's used when you have a motorcycle accident or somebody in a bike accident and somebody has got a lot of gravel or dirt in a wound and you need to clean that wound out effectively. It needed to be safe, cheap and disposable. Others had struggled to crack it, but the designers figured it out in just a few days, thanks to a little trip down organizational memory lane.

Years earlier, their company had developed a totally different product that could solve the problem. They even tested it on their kids.

They developed super soakers, those high pressure squirt guns. So they took that knowledge out of organizational memory and applied it to hospitals.

And they designed a super soaker for an emergency room. And lo and behold, it ended up working out really well. You know, they had to change the type of plastic and then some of the design for for a medical product guidelines. But in all other ways, it was basically just a slightly more expensive super soaker.

Those who can't remember the past are doomed to miss opportunity.

When we think about memory, we we think about it as knowledge, as bits of knowledge. We don't think about remembering and the role that remembering plays in making a new sense of that knowledge. Most of the value of our memories really comes out in finding new uses for them.

To find new uses for old ideas, you need a way to remember them, you might not have access to a rich archive of squirt guns. You probably haven't mastered the memory palace yet either. If you want to remember something right away, you can start with three steps. One, take a break in one experiment, taking a ten minute break after learning something improved recall for students by 10 to 30 percent and even more for stroke and Alzheimer's patients to quiz yourself.

There's a wealth of evidence that studying, rereading and highlighting are inferior to just taking practice tests. By retrieving information from your memory, you make it easier to find again. Three Tell someone else about it.

New research reveals that the best way to learn something really is to teach it, not just because you understand it better when you explain it, but also because you remember it better after you recall it.

So if you want to commit anything in this episode to memory, go to a dark, quiet room and do nothing for ten minutes and quiz yourself on the material and share a summary of your key takeaways with somebody else.

WorkLife is hosted by me, Adam Grant. The show is produced by TED with Transmitter Media. Our team includes Colin Helms, Greta Coan, Jessica Glaser, Grace Rubenstein, Michelle Quint, Angela Chang and Janet Leigh. This episode was produced by Dan O'Donnell. Our show is mixed by Rick Original Music by Hartsdale Sue and Alison Layton Brown. Ad stories produced by Pineapple Street Media Special. Thanks to our sponsors Accenture, Bonobo's Hilton and JPMorgan Chase.

Next time Unworked let you know when your boss and your boss's boss and H.R. is sitting in the room, that it's it's not going to be guys facing rejection and bouncing back.

The experiment with scuba divers was done by Duncan Godyn and Alan Batley, the classic studies of chess players were by Adrian DeGroote, William Chase and Herb Simon appreciation to the late Dan Wegner for his seminal work on Transactive Memory and a shout out to Neil McCrea and colleagues on source memory. Thanks to Christian Geritol Rick Boser and David Rosen for writing great summaries of the research on encoding, learning through teaching, testing and relaxing to Deborah and and Jim Walsh for their scholarship on innovation and organizational memory and to Patricia Kulen on Facades of Conformity.

Finally, thanks to Bleacher Report for the Sean McVay audio. I don't know if you've seen the research on it, but sometimes called klepto amnesia, where you misremember other people's ideas as your own. You take the klepto Nesha kleptomaniacs amnesia, OK? Oh, that's brilliant.

Do you have any advice on how to avoid those kinds of errors, how to be less of a thief of other people's ideas? I can give that some thought.