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[00:00:26]

Russell, lovely to here from bone slicing forward. Hello and welcome to Episode 10 of The Up and under a podcast brought to you by Robillard, we've got another picture for you this week. As always, I'll be joined by former Ireland Leinster online member Jamie Heaslip. We're going to be looking back on the European finals over the weekend with Exeter Crown Champions Cup winners and Bristol crowd. Challenge Cup winners will also be looking ahead to Ireland's rescheduled Six Nations game with Italy on Saturday.

[00:01:07]

And looking back on the second Bledisloe Cup encounter between New Zealand and Australia. And guess why is this week I'll be chatting to former Leicester Tigers and Italy Martin Castro Geovani and none other than former Ireland, Leinster and Loyn Centre. Brian O'Driscoll, judicial guys. There's distance and there's accuracy. Singing celebrates, but there will be a restaff confirmation the time is over before the ball is over. It seems the junkins. An extraordinary finish to an epic contest.

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So I told Jamie, no provocative action this weekend, but, my God, what a Champions Cup final.

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Well, we got some good rugby, I think, in general.

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I don't know, like, you know what I'm I'm got for, like, people like Zeb's and Skin, you know what I mean?

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And. Within the light of people, I gained weight and and and gained Steensen, you know what I mean? Particularly Einsteinian, when you think of like he he put up a 10 year challenge thing that I think that was kind of the weekend was there on Instagram. And it was just like Fairplay, you know, that that journey that he's been on. But Helter-Skelter game and and apologies, by the way, if you hear banging in the background, I have my as always, my next door neighbor's hammering away here.

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And don't worry, it's not you know, he's he's all marked if you go out there and what the moment like it's the neighbors. Right.

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Let's just in case you're wondering this, I don't know if they're in the good way. And so and I know like where do we start?

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Where do we start? Simon Zebo. I think he played. Probably the best game of European rugby that I have ever seen him play. And it was it was he was class and I just think what you got to see there was was Zeb's when the leash, when he's in a way of playing that really suits his style and is given a lot of freedom. He's also empowered, obviously, by Pendergrass, who is who's because he's the attack coach.

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And you're seeing there back three involved in the game. Lautz, you have a creative playmaker like Finn Russell as well.

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And it's really encouraging. You know, Finn Russell even is mixing up his kicking game. And you got forward to, you know, he would have been, let's say the meatheads back in the day are playing to a good shape, that that's when they cause problems and they they stuck to that shape. And that's all coming from Pendergrast, obviously.

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I think that's really encouraging and really good for us because, you know. I just really I really like the organization, I really like the club, and that's not think as XRX or deserve winners. I think that's fair to say and. Well, you know, say outside of the Farzat, but I you know, I don't think you can hold it against is really what I mean.

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And like, I love the way they've gone about it. They're they're a humble club. They're understated, they're efficient. And I think. And that's how it is. Yeah.

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Well, like I mean, go back to Zebo, you know, like I remember saying, we're actually in the what's up? We were laughing. The masafumi on the lines are not the same at the same time kind of gone. Where is our skin and where's Kurtley Beale? Why haven't they been brought on yet? And then I just saw what it was like. The two of us met in the same time, Bila 12. That's going to be some combination.

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You're going to have Russell, Bill and Vakhitov Zebo back and forth back. And I just sasebo get and take it off and I'm like, what in? And he just come in like really come into the game for five minutes. He made a break and he just he made a one. And all people are a look at you, you see it. The break that he made was out of absolutely nothing. He just came a tackle, spun out of it, beat three defenders.

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And you're like, what?

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And how many times you've seen him do that spin, though, doesn't it?

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Does it works well. It goes back to the French, kind of like it's the one thing that's not trying to put them down, but it's one thing that's always held them back, like the coaching in France in terms of the head coaches capsulizes. You're saying your Sanogo Prendergast was there. Like what? Like when the shit hits the fan. Sorry, no, excuse my French. Do you know what I mean?

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Like, they they don't they don't understand the real big decisions that need to be made and be careful, you know, like, look, I think I think I understood the decision to bring Baylon because they needed a bit more creativity. Possibly you don't actually doubt that decision, but taken Zebo off, I think they'll probably look back on that and be like that wasn't even taken before we even take off a winger and put them on the wing.

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If you don't want to put fire. Yeah. Habila fifteen or instead of twelve because, you know, sort of being a spy test, I wonder if he's paid for contested full back his by test anyway.

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He can go anywhere. So why are you taking off the ball. How can you have three or four.

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I don't, I don't. I think they're going to look back and regret that. And I think they're going to question the decision not to have skin.

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And I thought we have to clarify who skin is to everyone realizes don't even like I'm supposed to like. But even tonight's our time is one thing to bring them on solid body game. As we said, they're very serious there last week. Look about our grown up front, which is what exit our the that like. I'm sorry, this is this is Doneck Orion, who is and I'm not just saying this as a monster fan like who has come from the team that invented grown up front, that invented forward player.

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To a certain extent, it's where it came from. It's what Monster are known for. And he's one of the the old faithful. He's the Paul O'Connell. He's done the crying. He's the Peter classI. And you leave him on the bench in a final against a team like Exeter. Come on, give me a break.

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Yeah, look, look. They're going to look back. Look, if they're wise, they do this. That's what they do. They look back on this and they're going to definitely regret, I think, regret those two decisions. And but at the same time, I don't think that we can take away from from what Exeter did in the game.

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And you know, that there there's a lot of Irish people involved in that org as well.

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And I love the question that it throws up a little bit, though, and I would love to get your take on it.

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I know we've touched on a couple of times like this policy of of of not picking players and they've gone abroad ever since. Johnny Sexton has come back and was kind of in play ahead of sexting, going abroad, really kind of finished after Owen read and came back from WASPs, if you remember.

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Like, it begs the question going like, OK, especially with Bristol, you know, and the success they've had there and an Irish contingent that are there.

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And, you know, I mean, I don't know at the moment who's the form or fullback in the world right now. Yeah. And. You know, there shouldn't be too much debate because he's the option there at the moment, and if you are picking an Irish team at the moment, at the moment, unfarmed, OK, who should go to fullback Tim Tebow? I don't think you're going to get an argument in any pub, but there's no Hogzilla.

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There's no no there's no one is going to disagree with that. But at the same time, you understand where they're coming from to a certain extent.

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But as you know, we are we are shooting to point where we're biting our nose to spite our face, kind of a thing like, you know, I understand the lack of control that we have by having a player abroad.

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But at the same time, it also exposes players to other ways of playing. It brings a diversity of thought, a diversity of experience which we need going forward because otherwise end up with robots.

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You know what I mean? I think the whole game needs to change because of that.

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I think, like, I was you know, I was kind of I was talking to Martin Kaste, Geovani discussion into you on the podcast later on with him about the whole issue with, like, not letting in and interest like himself. I think, like in at the moment in England, you have this thing where English England only pick teams only popularism premiership Ireland players from the 14 to play in Ireland. New Zealand does the same thing. The whole game needs to change.

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The whole game needs games like like football, for example, or soccer or whatever we want to call it, like we call it soccer.

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Here, lads, if there's any English fans listening or American or American accent. Never know. You never know with us. What are you like a combination awaits us. Yeah. I said this, I said this for years. I mean, it doesn't matter where Lionel Messi plays. It doesn't matter where Christiane around or plays. It doesn't matter where any soccer player plays. They get selected. There's international window set aside like I hate soccer international because it's conversely, it can be at the moment.

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But it's put aside so that Cristiano Ronaldo, I mean, no matter whether he's in Italy, like there's a fucking pandemic out at the moment, there's covid the whole lot. And still these guys are released and go off and can play no matter where they play in the world. They could be playing in New Zealand or the campaign in Ireland. That's to two opposite sides of a bloody world. They would still get called up to their respective national teams.

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And that's the interest. And you can say that it'll decrease their provinces or whatnot. No, rugby has to get to a situation where it doesn't matter where you play. You can still pay for your country and you that's how you make the sport globally.

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Yeah, like I mean, look, do that would be a whole episode on a cell phone or on unpacking this.

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Right. And I just think that.

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Time to go forward, right? And how you and satiate the need for different players to try something new.

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OK, I think you've got to come up with new and original ways of, um, maybe facilitating players going abroad, find new learnings of different people. And the same is for coaches, by the way, and bringing those back. So take New Zealand, for example. They let players usually go off for 18 months, two years to do a stint in Japan they might come to and they might come to Europe for like two seasons or something like that, usually after World Cup and come back.

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OK, so I think the same thing can be said for looking at that like it's like the sabbatical thing we talked about. Maybe maybe there's something in that from the union giving you kind of guarantees, you know what I mean.

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Like, OK, mean, let me put this question to you and your playing days, like you said before, that you had offers abroad and I'm sure you've had plenty of. I tried to do it. I told you.

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I'm saying I'm sure a lot of guys have had plenty of offers. But in your situation, like, did you feel like, OK, I can go do this and I can go, I can make my few quid and I can go off to France or I can go off to Japan or wherever.

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But if I leave, I have been told I will not play for Ireland. And it's kind of like, were you essentially backed into a corner kind of going off you go, Jamie, but your island career is over. But that's that's pretty much that's pretty much how it is positioned for you. Like it like without being formally said because you'll never find US policy in writing.

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I think that's the word for it isn't it isn't like that. I think to have a policy in England and we do not have an official policy here, that's why we're able to call a text. And when he left, there's no official policy in.

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And that's I think that's that's probably and you know, you look at different sources of conflict in things and fairness is one of them. And I think people would just want the same level and field for all. So I just look, if they want to enforce that, I think that's fine. Put it in writing then. So then it's all very clear. But by by not doing it, I think you're leaving the whole subject open for debate. Yeah.

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And that's why we keep having these conversations that look at Wales, that have this thing where David initiated this the day before that had like you could bring in two players and now they've got this thing where, like, they call a reasoning, like because or he hasn't actually there's a loophole there because he didn't sign this contract before this. And the whole thing is a shit show like. So I think we should be getting across the board.

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But look, we think that we can go OK? Yeah, I think that's, you know, to be really interesting if they if they did get involved in it and just do have I don't know how much they don't know how much power your voice and the boy in the case.

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I don't know how much how much power they'd actually be able to have on the actual unions themselves. But look, it's an interesting debate because you could argue, OK, we get these different pinch points in terms of the pipeline, the players. Right. And we move around different clubs and even move different clubs are like, OK, at some stage we'll get we might get to a stage where, you know, we have guys who could be playing top tier rugby, but they can't because of.

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Yeah, you know, I mean, this is actually a perfect segue way onto the Challenge Cup. So, yeah, I know you weren't the biggest fan of the challenge.

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Copas, did you watch any of it or whatever? But I watched this with a very big Irish ninja, Derek, like Sir John Muldoon and Brian Byrne and Conoco Phillips and Kevin Geary and Brian Byrne. Can we just refer to Brian Byrne as Bubbles? Because that's his nickname. Is that. Sorry. Let's just keep out of Bubbles. And I'd like to see if we can get that to the masses.

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Grand Bob also. But the big one is on to me at Lorcan. So I saw you you saw my my tweet. That was so I was actually I was sitting at home. So if anyone if you saw this tweet, they stole it from me because I was sitting home with the message that I was like, Jesus Christ. The outlook was always incredible. So I had to hold on to my research, still it out. So basically, like, we're all kind of slightly surprised when he got out of contact.

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Yeah.

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Or is he getting really second decent player like, you know, CapitaLand Schmidt loved the tournament, loved him, came from Sevan's kind of like, you know, came out of nowhere and made a career front. And all of a sudden he was like, oh, so that was fine. Then I started looking deeper into his story. I found out that what he did is he went away and he trained with Pontiac throughout the whole period that he was gone.

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So I think he left. He got released in the end of May. So he trained for like three or four months with Pontiac, try to keep himself, apparently a really good friends.

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And he rang up Lammers acquired American Strategy, which means, OK, I'm not I'm not going to like and he goes like Grant. So he Automan let him train away with him no matter. Then I was like, Jesus, I don't understand why this guy got like all that, because he assumes, OK, maybe I'm assuming he assumed something maybe happened to him, but he was in class. Like, you're still the same player to when I trained you.

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OK, he's got he's got he's like he's got a cap, you know, he's he's got a copy of Ireland.

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So he signed them up, gave him a contract in August and on Saturday he became a European champion. So it's a very like I know you're big into leadership and I like on this off like I mean, that is such an incredible case of like.

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Well, I love that. I love how he took ownership of it. Yes. You know what I mean.

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Yeah, I know people a lot of people sit back and be reactive to the situation. He was like, all right, fuck this. I'm going to join as I say, I'm going to join the CIA. What the fuck that mean? So that me, you know, I mean, he's going to control what he can control. Yeah. And then he's going to see what he can influence and then he'll accept certain things.

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So he goes right covid ok. I'm like, OK, I'm kind of glad I'm in the middle of covid right. Shit. What can I do. Right. You know, I can train, I'm going to train hard. All right. I'm comfortable in the boonies in the shape of his life as well. So there are to are train training.

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Well he is after what nonserious Maxwell.

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So he's on the same program as Bondy's, who has worked there on the out on the creatine.

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And so so the last train hard didn't go OK.

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He probably reached Frangos. OK, who do I know in this world that I can influence? You know, maybe the agent that he had was, you know, agents can be quite flippant.

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And I think he actually rang Hatlem directly because know, this is like this. So this is what I mean, like he obviously when I'm going to make posh, I know Posh and and, you know, respect to perfection. Yeah. Come on over, Kate. Give it a go.

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Then he has to get himself over to it off his own back then he gets himself a contract, you know, and always are.

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You are the ones that are I mean, that's what I look like isn't especially true this whole Kolba period, like we're all struggling and everyone's struggling into certain aspects of their life.

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Like I mean, sometimes, like, OK, stop, take a step back. What can I do? What can I do to better myself? You know, I remember myself. I found a situation a few years back where I was kind of things weren't going to work for years. OK, what can I do? What can I do? I took a step back in my back and reinvest in my education. I went away, got myself a degree or do I got myself a masters.

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And that has that has worked for me in the long term. So that no matter what you think, no matter how hard things are, no matter what's going on in the world, no matter how many obstacles you put in front of you, if you take a step back, no matter how small it is, you can better yourself in a certain way and go, OK, I can do this. Are you are you always say you love saying it.

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Control the control of us.

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Yeah, I know what I mean. And I like fair play to him.

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And to be honest, like you look at those other players who are there and who, you know, I just really like the fact that a lot of them have taken a step outside of the. The Conference of Ireland and beat him beat and backroom staff beat him, coaches beat him players and that's the most pressing at the Bristol set up.

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Emon again talk to him always spoke very highly of the culture that they've created over there and what they're trying to create. And I think this is a about, but I actually think the lads are going to come to the wall of my bloody room here and that's not me.

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I just wish it was like that Aerosmith video article is just not as cool as that.

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And I'm definitely not as good as the one that just just brought you go on on the underneath and it'll continue to go. You actually commented on it and I'll get a couple hundred like you like. Even better, Tom Kessel was laboring on a building site two months ago after leaving Congress. Now he's got to watch this. Going to end up playing for an extra hour as well.

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Like so, you know, he's his nickname is definitely like he's either like brickie or labour or something like that.

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I like to call them what's his name, fullback for Wales and oh, Lemba, Byrne and Lieben.

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No, not Levi, no scaffolder.

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William M. Williams yes s yeah, we call him scholar because he was a scholar, I thought I saw sorry before he was captured and he's now one of the best players in Europe anyway.

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So I think look for the organization. I think it's great. I think it's great for Irish rugby because because are so many players there and more importantly, there's so many backroom staff both there and in Racine that are Irish. It means potentially a lot of pipelined there for us for going forward. Hopefully these guys get an opportunity to come back and bring that diversity of thought, bring about the diversity of experience and be included here in Ireland in it.

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And I think that's really when I think of kind of the green shoots.

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You're seeing some green shoots there and I credit where credit you to a satisfying period in terms of their defense that was thoroughly organized. That's not satisfying. And we'll have to have to get a heads up again with Kestral Geovani with a rather sarcastic cut that in half half is going to have to go back into the scrum. Srijit scrum is the decision. And if you look so sure, you'd like to get involved in the matchday squad and Castro. That was quite close to the wise, but halfway there.

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Next up, a chat with former Italy and Leicester Tigers prop Martin Castro. Giovanni. Hi, Martin.

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How are you? I suppose, first of all, how have you managed over the last few months with everything that's gone on in the world? And how are things in Italy?

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Well, things are going to get tough. And now he's getting there again. We don't know what happened. But, you know, I. I mean, I always took this kind of time, you know, but I must say, enjoy your time, you know, because when you injure everything you have us, you know, as good for you is going away. And but you need to get that work on yourself. Stay calm, you know, do what you need to do and try to open your mind, read or do whatever you can do to try to get your mind.

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Occupy did something, but it's not it's not been easy. It's not been easy for anyone else. I think we need to get down, keep fighting, because this is always going on. Yeah, it's just weird at the moment.

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I'm looking over to the road. I are looking at Benneton the last couple of weeks. They really pushed also hard to really push Landstar. That's going to give them all his confidence going into the game next week. That's their problem. Salsano against the top either so that they can they kind of match Manfield.

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Yeah, of course. He's been he's been a tough time. And I think I think Benetton's recent momentum has been working a lot in the last few in the last year, last year. They have a very good campaign and I think they keep working on that. And I hope he's getting all the all the all the requisite Eataly forward. You know, I think he's been he's been a time where a lot of people who played for a long time like me, Sendejo, to consider going to a mosque, all of them.

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He's been there for so many times. And it's like we stop playing maybe four years ago. And I think you need time because all of the players who just replacing us, they didn't have too much experience as well. And they need to they find that one day to another one to play in a six nation then. And I think some they need to get time to the players to get used to these things. And I am I hope so.

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They're getting better because they deserve that. Yeah.

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Looking back on your all your playing days back quickly, can you single out any any proper or any front that's kind of your toughest opposition to come up against?

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To be honest, I, I know we watch and rhetoric too much, but I think I always like to read it. So writing for me was of the of the guy who got the most. The best position in the scrum, and I really like him, I'm very good, very good at what team is you look forward to playing against the most when you were playing really in the Six Nations, which which countries you look forward to reading. Yeah, I can't wait for this game this weekend.

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Well, I think us as Italian, of course, always been France and. For reality, for their whole life. Of course, I think I say as a six nation game, I will I will say Scotland, because when I used to when I used to play in Scotland, Italy was the one the two who used to fight for the. The last two position, and I think that was the game you must feel, because we we feel we need to win, but yeah, that's what the two games.

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So I was waiting for the six nation.

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Can you think of any one moment that's like your most memorable moment in an Italian jersey? I have a lot not too many winnings, but a lot and, well, I think the first time we win against France in the Six Nations and a whole winning mandate as a coach, that was a beautiful moment. I always will remember and I remember when I lived.

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And if you see the image of when we leave the cars, when they play Ireland against England, they have a trophy. Well, France and Italy, they started doing these things from the not so many years ago. And the first time we want to make it big, it's a it's a big trophy that I when I lifted Sergio was there I and I could you in the face. He wasn't happy with me. I always when I see that image because they still in there.

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And you can see when I leave the thing I get Serge in the face with me again. I really remember that they are so beautiful.

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They have the Italian rugby team just you're probably sick. Listen to this now with the whole George and base and how people are asking this. Italy should maybe be relegated in Georgia, come up. George and I are finally going to get a chance. They're going to play in the automation's call. So they're going to go try and do not in Italy's group with a chance to prove themselves against the six nation to see if they can do any better in Italy.

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And as a former Italian pair, are you sick? I hear people saying that and people say in Italy aren't good enough and Jahjah should be promoted. Is a frustrating is it annoying to years?

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Well, you know, people stop because this is free. If you pull back some bullshit, people say they want to start to not say bullshit anymore, but we still work free and you can say where you work and buy.

[00:25:55]

My point of view and my real point of view is I don't think they want Georgia there because not Ireland, not England. No one wants to go to Georgia. They like to come to Italy because he's wrong. That is the real thing. And let's get things done on the table because I like to talk like that.

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But at the same time, you need all the other teams. The rugby world is saying we need to get the better rugby. You need to make all the other team, which I've been doing quite well. I like Georgia and Romania, Spain and Spain. All of this team, which is working for a long time, they deserve it. Why you don't bring it to the situation? Because if you bring it to the six nation, the cake is not one of divided four.

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Sixty one anybody can tell and the money is not what to be there. Like we can talk all night about what I think. But the real thing is that people make others other one talk with the people who need to make the decision. They make the decision. And I think this is what I answer you like that this, I think, is that people need to watch monitoring the face and be more clear. And, you know, sometime is political.

[00:27:02]

Oh, this is political both for me and I will make you play the situation because we know discuss it and I don't know, it's a problem now.

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It's not my problem.

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It's true. It's true. But in general, do you think Italian rugby is heading in the right direction or are they kind of stagnant the last few years?

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Well, if you ask me about result now, if you ask me about result, not the if you ask me about what the people who are there, we need to do their job. They've been there for about twenty years and it's been in the same position for the last twenty years. I think if you want to change something, you need to change. But by the time is not me the one who made the decision and now he's I think it's a new it's a new election, I think next year and we will see what happens.

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But honestly, I don't I never blame on the players because the players go there and do what they can do or they have this and they go to the you know, they go to the game or what they have. And they always do the best that they can do. Sometimes these other people going to work for just one final one there.

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Martin, you had control over there for the three seasons. What was he able to make much of an impact or was he kind of blocked, I suppose, by those thoughts, that regime that's been there for the last 20 years, as you said?

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What you want me to make to talk? And you like me when I talk to you. And I think you should come here with a good mentality. But when you come to Italy, we make people change mentality sometimes. And it's kind of something to wear when you come up with the idea and try to change the whole thing and the people who try to help you to change that thing, they're not helping you. And I think the Italian team want to do something for good and to change.

[00:28:52]

They need to choose a coach and having for ideas, because every four years you change the coach and this coach come in and give you some. Tactics to play and the other one, strange, and you want to play a different way, and this is what happened with Italy, we maybe we have a good forwards and everyone knows that, but we don't have a game with people. No, we don't think they play because they don't know. We don't have we need to find someone who put us in a good way, but not for two or three years.

[00:29:22]

For eight years. This is the only way to see someone go to work and give you the time to change the. No change in every four years. Thanks, Martin, appreciate it. You're welcome. Irish dry, they think they're over the line, the going will need the help of the Tamo Glen Newman Rodgerson. Remon, yes, there is nothing clear and obvious, so stick with your own field decision. I fully agree that. We will swiftly move on to the small matter of Ireland versus Italy this week, which is the six nations, we just we just get into it after about three years.

[00:30:16]

So let's get straight into the team training, because let's not be around the bullshit, because this is all people want to know. Like who? You know what?

[00:30:22]

You have to go, first of all, because, you know, they're more interested in seeing a former Arlington National troll the same like I'm a few pilots, so.

[00:30:30]

OK, we'll start with. Oh, yeah, we did a farm team a few weeks ago. Now this is more so. OK, let's focus in a national perspective. So just pick your team for Italy, which is going to be different, and we're trying to put people know that.

[00:30:45]

So I think what I think he's going to burn. OK. And with church on the bench, OK, because he's got I think he's going to go to a couple of changes. He definitely will be physically OK and you have to look after him. But it has to be a kind of mixture of of seniority. I think the word and yeah. Experience.

[00:31:08]

I think he's going to go with Harring then. OK, um, Porter, J.R., Tyburn, C.J. at six. Doris at eight conures at seven am, I think you might change my mind. OK, sexto Bondie Gary and then the bacterium stumped him.

[00:31:38]

I actually think I was talking to be on the podcast as well today as I was talking to. I even asked him to come on now you're back now one of the best ever tell me anything. And he, he literally spent about four minutes answering the question before he got to you. Yeah, I don't know. He said, I can't take your battery. And I came back. I was like Jerry's own. Like, you went off went off on his big rant to tell me what is good and what's he like.

[00:32:02]

I don't fit. I don't like I'm not going to give out about that because no one can answer that question anymore because it's all bloody. Oh, but see, the thing is, like, we stuck just a little bit. He's played more fullback recently. Right. Hugo can play fullback as well. Palmer can play fullback. Right. But we have no one was playing like George was playing kind of fullback probably more regularly than the rest of them.

[00:32:24]

Yeah. Is that fair to say. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. And so like unless you're going to give Rob Kahne another roll of the dice or you're going to bring over Zeb's, there's no one who's playing fullback. He's already halfway Dossani out, essentially grow out of it like he's already he's already on the sunbeds half. Idelson Oh no. I think himself autobody are still hanging out with each other. He's already put he's already put himself forward for a casino a long way in over a big part role like he's gone.

[00:32:51]

Good luck. He's never going back.

[00:32:52]

Oh, by the way, by the way, I would not be surprised. I would not be surprised to see to see Rob Karenni sitting in the back and also electric in a coffee. Hierro, he's gone. He ain't coming back yet. So that's a that's a good team.

[00:33:09]

But you you can put your battery, so I'll give you mine. So I'm not going to put that burnin for the I'm sorry, I'm going to Carnelian there because I want to make sure. Yeah. No, I was just thinking where is he going to make the change, you know what I mean. Like what changes is he going to make. Yeah.

[00:33:21]

For me I'm going to go back and he really said I'm going to put Harring in there. Yes. Because Kelaher has been talking about a kind of a eagle in the last few weeks.

[00:33:28]

Yeah. Kelleher's, he he should start, um, I was going to drop water, but I got a press release today saying that everyone trained fully today and everyone trained fully on the Monday. You should be OK. So important they're OK because I think you can't really to be decent I think in the second row. Oil tank. Yes, I'm trying I think yes. Burn. I not need to kind of mix around there. I think yes, I would go with C.J. at six.

[00:33:54]

I would go Atari's at eight seven. I would, I would like to see conures but I still think he'll go off under fleer. You know, that's just my opinion. I would prefer to see oil. We prefer to see sacks and drop pretty slick and J.A.G. because he's just come back. MindTree, I don't see. So I don't give him a good game, but I think he'd go with Texans are going to put Sexon in there. Yeah, I think if he makes those changes we've talked about, I think he goes, well, depends what he does.

[00:34:17]

Doesn't nine that's sitting well at nine.

[00:34:20]

Could you would you say you've me at nine. You said I said my arms. I think yeah. I think he probably not. No imminent Dalek. He's not going to get married. Usually there is no point because he wants a mouthful. I think more be on the bench because he wants him back to full fitness for the France game, because I don't I've no doubt that they're going to get five points. I'm not trying to be, you know, put Italy pretty down, but I've no doubt.

[00:34:42]

So I would watch.

[00:34:43]

Yeah, yeah. I don't think John is going to guess. I think John will get Captain Autum. Yeah, I think so. I think so. I think so.

[00:34:50]

So you got Miami and at nine and then you have Murray on the bench, then you've got six and a ten, Bondie and Ringrose and twelve. Thirteen. Yep. I see no issue with that. I think that's our, I think that's our strongest sector partnership. Wide or not. That should be, I don't know, but I think he will go with it because the way everything is I think he, I think he'll go it because he wants.

[00:35:10]

Do you think if you play it better, he wants that to be really, really strong? Yeah. Yeah. They're essential to within the game. And he's coming out with the odd comment that they're expanding their game and they're evolving their game. And and and in order for that to happen, the 12 and 13 axis has to be helping them, especially with the fifteen and depending who could take with the fifteen as they have. They don't have it, and it's not like New Zealand have 10 and 15 that a really good ball district distributors.

[00:35:43]

So they need they need someone like a guy or a body or actually, you know, particularly Bondies, probably underrated in our point of view, you know, of of being able to put a bit more with an eye and step up as first receiver type scenario. And I think that's why he wants to potentially bad data on what he was saying there.

[00:36:00]

Like I was I was looking into that thing that I was on that caller last week. I like talking about his is his evolution of the game itself. And I just wanted to find a kind of funny character. He came out right away and said, yes, I do realize that we need to evolve our game to a certain extent, but at the same time. A strong part of us has been sticking to our processes and sticking to our game plan, so he's completely said two things and completely kind of went, OK.

[00:36:28]

So you want to allow him to go and find what you want to say to your bosses. So to me, I'm not trying to criticize.

[00:36:32]

I'm not trying to criticize him, but it just kind of leaves a bit of a mixed kind of moral message there in terms of, OK, what are we doing? Are we just going to stick to our processes and go, what's worked? Well, you know what?

[00:36:41]

I think we're going to have personally, what I think that means is they might have like the game, the game sheet with certain plays on it. Yeah, right. Well, they'll probably evolve the the multiphase part of their game. Yeah, well, a big thing he said as well is that he wants to encourage his players to play more heads up rugby last night as well, attempting today to drink. And he was like, I think that's a subtle message to his players, particularly in the back line, to kind of go, OK, if it's on, players don't necessarily stick to the game plan.

[00:37:12]

I'm giving you a small bit of a I'm giving you two or three lumps off the leash. They're going to go, OK, if you see something on gofers, which is something I haven't done a lot recently in terms of they kind of they're very usually stick to their original game plan. OK, stick your head up and if you see it on players. Yeah, I mean, yeah, it's just I have to go to the forwards as well to think back back the game in the back.

[00:37:37]

Oh, definitely. They'll be after you and all your games were like, OK, normally in this situation, this what I'm supposed to do. But if you stick your head up, go on the second out with those fucking numbers here this year and you can't run blindly into tackles.

[00:37:51]

We can't run no footwork. We can't run and not look at our float. Like if we if we run blindly straight into other teams, just get found out.

[00:38:01]

But you've got to you've got to you've got to you've got to train the way you want to play. So you just wonder how they are training. Because what I'm saying is I like example. I know how Lance are doing. They're doing these chaotic setups. For that reason. Monsters seem to be a lot more structured in their attack. If I'm honest and say mid Ulster, Connacht are probably a bit more freer than those two. OK, and but it's getting to it, getting the right plan together.

[00:38:27]

And that's the challenge of the international side, because you have the different force, the four different styles coming together. And so how you get them all used to what fits best for the way for the philosophy Deffeyes is coaching. And that's the challenge.

[00:38:45]

Well, that's not quite our liking, what they're seeing here, so Driskell, again, pholcodine. Next up, a chat with former Ireland and Cancer Center Brian. Hi, Brian, how are you? As things go, go, go, go. Well, first of all, what are your thoughts on Andy France squad selection in general? Any surprise selections?

[00:39:17]

And obviously, the the the obvious one is, is the exclusion of John Kearney. And it seems maybe a bit harsh considering some of his form earlier on the air. Bush and.

[00:39:33]

But yet he hasn't hit his straps in the start of this season and as a result of the guise of have got in ahead of him, it seems like a big fall from grace, which must be difficult to stomach from from his perspective and from an ulcer perspective. Bush and I think their their challenge when you talk about being picked on form, is Conrad Murray being picked on? FOREMAN And I suppose there's and there's there's something in that.

[00:40:02]

But I think what I think John Conyers and I understand why an 80 percent fist controversy are playing at 80 percent capacity is still very much to be reckoned with. The cam, the influence that he brings to the rest of the side, the comfort and confidence that he generates with those that have played with him for 10 years. Those guys that have just come in, what they will see him doing a training and never get flustered, you know, poking holes, doing all the clever things.

[00:40:32]

So for me, I've always been a huge fan and continue to be, even though he's not at the height of of of his kind of contribution over the last 10 years. Perfect. I'm looking for selection this weekend, the big one is going to be Fall-back there isn't officially recognized fullback in the squad at the moment. You know, I've got to talk to a lot of games there. Some games there in the came in. And if you're antifa like, who is the best man for that job and then who you're putting on the wings?

[00:41:03]

And if that's the case.

[00:41:04]

Yeah, well, how I look at it now, I think. You can look in this two different ways, you can look at this and six nations, it's Italy. So maybe if you are going to blow one of the younger lads, one of the newcomers into the set up now is the game in a Six Nations match to do it? If it was anybody else, would you be looking at bringing someone in for a first cup? Maybe not particularly on the on the on the back of a big, long layoff like this.

[00:41:37]

But I think it is it's not a free, big game. But you would expect to win a game against Italy at home. And so you could look at a Hugo Keenon or a Shane Daly playing in there at fullback and doing a good job. If Andy Farrell sees them as being one of the future players for the Rugby World Cup in twenty, twenty three, we're not privy to what a huge amount of this will come down to is what that what they've shown a training in the last week and this week and who gets who's been able to pick up and you know, the little intricacies of the game plan, who's looked as though they can rip apart the opposition defence of training.

[00:42:22]

Those things all add up where we're only watching on Saturday afternoons. And you think that's the be all and end all?

[00:42:28]

It's really not from a coach's perspective, seeing them deal with a pressurised environment at training and being able to be on message and get what what the coaching ticket are looking for, combined with their own natural talent, is what will get them selected along with their performances. So in the case of the two guys that I mentioned, they've both been very solid for their respective provinces when they've played and that's why they're in the National Cup. And that said, you could look at it and think Jacob Stockdale's going to be there for twenty twenty three.

[00:43:01]

Is his position going to be on the wing or at fullback? And we want to build his confidence. He's going to be a big player for us if we can get them back to the two. Do has an 18 month old. So maybe you give him his opportunity in the fifteen jersey to to see whether that's his new position. And I don't know the answer to us. I really don't know because because I've not seen any of them perform a training in the last week.

[00:43:29]

I do like the I do like Hugo and I do like Shadadi. I think they're they're very different to Jacob. I feel as though Jacob might be better on the wing because he's less time to think of what he's going to do. And and he's an instinctive player, particularly from an attack point of view. I think he still has a bit to learn defensively. On the flip side, at fifteen, he's probably better defensively because he doesn't have to make any reads.

[00:43:54]

It just he knows the last man has his. You make that tackle or you don't. And I think some of the flak that he's taken on the basis of the defensive display against Justin Colby is so unfair. Like, no no player in world rugby is going to make those tackles against that footwork or very few are going to do it. So I think you can strike that one off as a bit of an anomaly or not to take account of it.

[00:44:21]

But I do think that there's positives and negatives and to have on both sides and and it'll come down to who's performed well when the pressure's been squeezed. The training.

[00:44:34]

Perfect, perfect. Just I'm going back to scrumhalf looking economies form at the moment. Is it as bad as everyone is saying? And, you know, Amami and I think good enough to make that step up and they're good enough to maybe display some first of all, kind of Murray's pass is the best pass in Ireland to watch it.

[00:44:49]

What should your scrumhalf be doing better than everybody else is, is passing the ball. So I think it's Conrad Murray first and then I think it's probably John Cooney.

[00:45:02]

And then I think it's changed in Gibson Park. And then I think it's Carramar on a passing and on the passing level. So for me, I think if you're the best passer, your your straight away in a strong position.

[00:45:16]

I think contributing to that Murray has hit some pretty lofty heights in the last ten years and. And he's not been at that level the last two years that he was maybe the Lions tour in twenty seventeen or, you know, during that Grandslam year or many other years over the course of his international tenure. But he or his international positioning. But he is. Someone that exudes a calmness and an influence on those around them and the no panic counts for a huge amount, just feels like he's going to make good decisions.

[00:45:58]

More often than not, I don't think the speed of decision is as strong as it was in the past.

[00:46:04]

He feels a little less a little bit more formulaic than he was in the past. I'd love to see kind of the natural footballer come out again a little bit more because he's he's a great footballer and he reads the game so well.

[00:46:20]

And I just think we need a little bit more from him in an attack perspective. Also, he's playing to a game plan and monster where his boss kicking. I don't think that's kind of where he's not using whatever I don't care with. But these are all doing I'm going to kick the ball. He's not thinking that is being told. That is the way we need to go and play some of our attacking rugby as well. And we all have opinions on that.

[00:46:44]

And but I do feel as though some of the flak that he's gotten has been a bit unwarranted.

[00:46:51]

And if I was saying there last week, Brian, that he wanted to see players, I suppose see the picture. I want to play a bit more heads up probably. What are your thoughts on that? Would you agree with him?

[00:47:02]

Yeah, like, it's not something that that you're always trying to do. I think that is when the game gets away from you a little bit and you kind of get a foothold in it. How do you you can't revert just back to the tactics that you had before the game? I think you have to have a malleability to the way the game is going.

[00:47:19]

And as much as you might want to play wide, wide, if for some reason that you see in a different of different, different defensive system, you have to be willing to go to the ER or you have to be able to be clever to understand in real time how you can manipulate the defence to do what you want them to do. So that's that's not a new phenomenon. I think that doesn't tend to happen when you're in the ascendancy and when you're winning collisions and you go from football.

[00:47:47]

It happens when you're on the back foot and you're barely getting parity at line at the scrum or in real time, you then have to find a way to get yourself back into the game. We're not South Africa. We can just bludgeon teams to death. And that's their game plan. They never shift away from that game and they just go harder when it's not officially when it's not working the first time. We can't do that. We have to have an ability to mix things up because we don't have that size.

[00:48:16]

And so it's something that I think is probably trying to plant a seed in his in his in his playmakers hands as well of that ability to try and see alternative options when things are getting away from them a bit.

[00:48:29]

Going back to that power game that we've all been talking about for the last few weeks, when I began selective England and South Africa, was there a point of difference possibly be?

[00:48:37]

Yeah, I think you just have to make sure that your footwork is particularly good and that your accuracy at work is really good, that you're not you're not pouring your numbers into dead rocks. I think you look. What's the difference with the All Blacks? More often than not is their accuracy at the rock ball carrier plus two. They rarely, rarely have more than two staring at a rock, maybe one for security if it gets really messy and if they see the opposition piling a few numbers in.

[00:49:08]

But for most part, their ability to regenerate and offer us as an option outside the tent or outside the nine or hole defenders on the inside, that's what creates space in other parts of the field. So I think that's a that's a big component to to look towards when you're not when you don't have the brute force of other sides. I think you have to get the detail of know of the individual roles. Right.

[00:49:35]

And make sure that that they're doing their job and you don't have others having to cover for it for inadequacies. And so, yeah, it's something to something that we used to be very, very good at with judgment is the accuracy at the rock. And and and it's one thing that we need to kind of continually stay on top of because and that's a positive knock on effect to the rest of our game.

[00:49:59]

Is that a margin setting a narrative? More so kind of, you know, not looking up, not playing heads are probably like they're so good at New Zealand. Is it a matter of you can coach that in four or five weeks or is that something that we need to look at in the long term to kind of change our minds?

[00:50:14]

I think we've got some really good footballers that are capable. You know, you think about your halfbacks and it's about the spine of the team being able to read it well and going from, you know, from your HULKA through to one of the second rows to your Harring to, you know, centre and fullback. If you think about that, Spiric Keller is new, but you've got Ryan, Murray, Sexton, Ringrose and then stuff that are one of the boys that we talked about.

[00:50:42]

So it's it's the makings of a good spine to be able to. Read the game well, so you wouldn't be concerned, Darris or Stender in the back row, you think about that, they're in pretty good shape that you've got some pretty impressive IP there. It's just a matter of giving them the ability to navigate that. And so that's not a that's not a concern. The the rest is about other players then as well. You know, you think about the second rose with New Zealand and how I don't know when the last time Brodie Retallack went to a dead rock or something like for that matter, and you saw them wrestling real watching.

[00:51:25]

And when they realized that it's done here, they regenerate and they get out and they if they're not going to be involved in the next phase, they're involved in the one after that. And they might be getting their hands on the ball, but they're running a line or switch line or they're going to be the first here. So it just you've got to think ahead of time. And that's you know, that's always a work in progress with any players of, you know, trying to bring them in and getting them to understand how to see the next few phases rather than just the one that they're involved in there.

[00:51:56]

And then. Are they given enough license and freedom, I suppose? Brian, I'm going to go back to France comments, he said that he does want to evolve Ireland's game plan, but he also said that they're very good at sticking to their game plan and sticking to their processes. You know, and you go back to what you said about Kanamori and being forced to kick Gionata, given that license, given that freedom and what was the most Wales was the first game and they played really well.

[00:52:21]

And they had those small, little, you know, manipulative plays. They had a beautiful try that sex Sexo scored. So and we hadn't seen that before, whether we set something up, you know, pulled a defense in and then played out the back. And so we thought they were going to be a small little nuances and we just haven't seen the evolution of that. Granted, it's only three games, so I'm one of them. We got absolutely decimated.

[00:52:46]

That got hammered up front and physically and just I played by England. So you almost have to write that off. So ultimately, it's only two games that we've had the chance to see our attack, our attacking shape.

[00:53:00]

So I think we'll know an awful lot more over the next two weeks as to what what way Ireland want to play. But for them to get to showed us they've got to continue to be collision winners. And, you know, I talk about it nearly every week when I'm talking about rugby. It becomes such a simple game when you win tackles, when you win that collision zone, if you don't win that, the knock on effect is the rookies, Messi, and you have to put more bodies into it, slower on the defensive line sets and you've got less bodies to play against and you have to kick it and or you've got this rush defense on you.

[00:53:36]

You know, if you get accurate and you can win that that collision, then you can clear it quickly and you can make it a two second rule. The game just evolves in front of you. And that's what kills me of guys trying to settle scrumhalf in particular trying to wait for the for the cavalry to get around the corner and set up because they're trying to get back into their system. If it's fast, play it, don't worry about any system, because the defense is not set either, and you just have the ability to be able to play what you see, that turning a three second rule into six, because I want some numbers.

[00:54:09]

Just take it and run across the field yourself and wait for someone to run a line of you because the defense someone's going to make a bad decision in not defense if that's the case, if they're a bit disorganized, too.

[00:54:20]

So we actually saw the weekend with tomorrow with that trying to corner frustrated that he didn't want anyone to got in percent. Right.

[00:54:26]

So Imhoff. Right. Is like, yeah, in the final run he's going to scrumhalf and he just ran for a couple of seconds on. Ibold was a Johnny Hill, made a bad decision, shot out of the line. There you go.

[00:54:39]

Doesn't matter what number jersey you have on you, if you if it's there to be played play because particularly, you know, loose forwards, you might feel a bit vulnerable against an outside back or a tight floor, as I should say. You know, they want the security of close contact and to be set nice and early if they're left out on their own or left to defend with a bit of space, there's no better opportunity to try and get in behind or or to pile pressure on them.

[00:55:10]

So that's what we're looking for. They're looking for mismatches of running over us. We're looking for mismatches of trying to isolate them in kind of the wider channels.

[00:55:19]

I was talking to Gordon Darcy last week. I asked him who's the toughest center ever come up against? And he came back with two. He came back with Josiane from France and Manono. Is there any one or two players you can kind of single out go? Yeah, it's going to be a tough day at the office today.

[00:55:35]

And I thought Conrad Smith was always one of the really difficult ones. And he's nicknamed Snake, I think, because of the hips and just doesn't look as though he's going that fast, which he can he can travel. So, yeah, only in 2012, remember never thinking that he was that quick. And then I saw him pulling away from me. I was like, OK, is that more of a reflection on me or more of a reflection on him?

[00:56:01]

I'm not entirely sure what he he was he was a good footballer, really clever player, picked up a lot of, you know, what might be perceived as easy scorers, but he had some stuff.

[00:56:15]

But you have to run the line and to to get there. So, you know, really, really clever. Operator And then Josiane. Yeah, for me, like Manono is another great player. But for me, if I were to pick two, would be it would be Josiane and and conrod I think.

[00:56:35]

Yeah. Thank you, Michael. Yes, but I. I think that needs a chaser. No chases. He's clocked you face hard, he's beaten three men, he's gone straight through the middle. What a wrecking ball. And still they don't put into ground water starting test boom for the young man, New Zealand with a huge overlap. It has to be savvier. I'll take it. Well, Audi, Savea and it all came from Cullom Park.

[00:57:13]

Right. So on to the Bledisloe Cup. What about New Zealand? Weekend, Jimmy. What about the production line of players that they have?

[00:57:21]

Well, I think I said I said a few weeks back about this. His name is Caleb Clark.

[00:57:25]

And I've been saying to us now. In fairness, no, we can't complain too much, because if you look at the current Ireland setup, you look at welcomeness, you look at Sulkin and you look at Chandini. These are guys I've come to sevens and I've been saying this for so long. Go back. Right. Do some research. Right. If you're Mordaunt at home and you're going to be we're probably gonna be in lockdown. Now, look, Tom, this evening, brokenness on Monday.

[00:57:46]

So you're going to be bored now. It's working on a few Wikipedia rabbit holes, right? Look at the production line in New Zealand. Right. In terms of players, Dave produced that of Computer seven system. I'll give you one example straight away. Jonah fucking Lomu came to the system. Cahuzac means Muliaina. There is Alistaire as long and actually your man, Paola's Caleb Clarke.

[00:58:08]

Caleb Clark Jr. already staying very late, chinlone, which is crazy for Kiwi's, like a big thing. I've watched this clip so many times, that incredible breaking talking about when you see he Ronja, he takes the ball, he puts it to one hand. He looks for a when he runs through and he gets tackled and he gets back up and he goes again. How does the sevens mentality 100 percent is like, OK, he hasn't had to tackle because he's used to a big space with only a handful of guys coming in and he's used in aurochs or not here because no one talking to me, bang, I'm up and again and again the next 20 meters.

[00:58:39]

And it's called Treuhaft. So that is something that is huge, that you can't teach, that you have to you have to experience it. You have to live it. And like I've played sevens in the past. You bet. Sevens. It's like it's a different sport. It is a different sport. It is. Just go, go, go, go, go, go. It doesn't stop. You score a toy, bang. You've got to get back to the kick off.

[00:59:04]

You do this, you hit a rock. It's just the seven goes in a fall. So he's fucking pitch. It is nonstop to fitness levels are ridiculous.

[00:59:12]

You know what else I'm liking about him though with the other thing.

[00:59:15]

I'm like, OK, they've got his attacking prowess from the sevens and. Yeah. How to exploit space and all that sort of thing.

[00:59:22]

But they're really, really, really like. Sharpening the axe when it comes to, you know, that 10, 15 to playmakers split in the field. Yeah, and to say to attack I like how good was it like to break him out at one stage?

[00:59:41]

Do you see the difference he makes? I'm going to make a difference. Is a former two time world parody er coming back in the back?

[00:59:47]

Probably. He's probably going to be playing a decade. Do you know what I mean. Actually while we're on that now, I was on leave at the end of the show, always say, well here Mr. Hayslip, you have been nominated, you were up here.

[00:59:58]

Look I know because I know it was an incredible team choice, but you were the guy at the end of it, so I like to keep it here. I was the cutover who who ran a straight line up the field like a don't many a time and not being on the end of it. And I was surprised, like everyone else, if I going forward and actually pass the ball to me either way, it doesn't matter.

[01:00:16]

Like as in, you know, it doesn't matter what the end of the day, if you take a step back and look at it from a structural point of view, that was an amazing Troyes and an incredible team. And that is what the game is about. I'm not just saying that as an Irishman and not to say that I'm talking to you. I think that is a trophy that could very well win it, because that is all about the values of the game, as you say.

[01:00:38]

And at the end of it, that's the whole point of this.

[01:00:41]

It wasn't just like it is probably out of all the trophies, it's the best team. Try. Oh, I don't want to put that the best basketball was the best individual.

[01:00:52]

Try, if I'm honest, is the number eight from Australia and they want to get to New Zealand.

[01:01:00]

Oh, no, no, no, no, no. It doesn't matter. No, I say it doesn't matter because everyone's going to vote for the Irish. Right. So it doesn't make it doesn't make a difference. Oh, sorry. Yeah. Yeah, you mentioned the opposition, but it's good to see you've got six and they're nominated for World Player two years.

[01:01:16]

Yeah. And I think like unfortunately I don't look, I love trying to get it and but like Bowdon Barasch, he won twice. He's nominated. I know he's nominated and he's won two others a character, grottoes.

[01:01:29]

Well, I think character and Macall Commonwealth power, to be honest with you.

[01:01:34]

It's not it's the best. Yeah.

[01:01:36]

If you've got a decade or two from 2000 to 2010, 2020, who's played the most years at international level. And you nominate like you're right. You're right. It doesn't matter. All it matters is Jim Hayes have tried that. And that's where I'll vote for guys control of us. I vote for Jimmy, get your fucking finger out and get it done. Right.

[01:01:55]

Is that where I put all my cool? I think that I was doing a lot of sex in your career. Is it? My culture is I'm for lots of cultures. I will vote for Jamie because, I mean, someone's going to ask me, Jamie Bartlett, swiftly take a look back and try two decade. There's going to be portion of the clip boom, try to decade anywhere swiftly moving on and wanting to touch on. First of all, it's brings us back now to two weeks ago.

[01:02:25]

Premature fine is our next weekend box person exit.

[01:02:27]

Our boss, the DA and Der covid-19 so easily wasps, cos I think since last week and we all thought it'd be fine. But then they put a press release out this morning. I'm going to pull it up. Was it three or four cases now again today. So now they've admitted that. Yeah, we don't know if the plane can go ahead and they have put Bristol on standby, which is kind of bizarre, to be honest. If if it was me and obviously I'm not the head to be, nor am I to see you.

[01:03:00]

I would have just awarded the title to Brazil because they finished first and finish first by a decent margin and they were top for probably about eight percent the league. But now they're going to potentially put Brazil into the final despite today. Got their asses handed them by what's in the semi by like thirty points. So like I mentioned, the press monitor.

[01:03:19]

So I'm not gonna lie to you. I'm not going to fuck everyone with all these different fucking permutations. And I just went my brain just went like this. That's the whole point. Yeah, that's the whole thing. And I think that's the problem isn't it. Correct. Correct. Armondo It's just fucking nose. It's Yeah. Form of imprisonment today. Like so data said like extra chiefs and Bristol Bears. I've been made aware of the situation. Part of the public releases information.

[01:03:43]

So I mean if you had a fucking Bristol final against Inkster and they managed to beat them because they were under fucking Lasha a week after the final hour, there were bollocksed after I fucking pretty intense effort put it this, I noticed that we had a pretty poor record after winning eight European final and playing in the final.

[01:03:58]

I'm sure you do. Look, I don't think I actually don't think we won anything by the time we won the place, whatever.

[01:04:06]

Yeah. Yeah. And that's different though because no one gives a shit about four fourteen offense. So you're just like, yeah, yeah.

[01:04:11]

No, but I mean it's the same thing to them. It's up to them. The premiership is a bit bigger to them and it's kind of like they would kind of like be like the way to top fourteen. Looks at the Champions Cup as Levert parted ways they would earn up so maybe they might have three or what at the same time at the end of the day. If you are a professional player in Europe, the peak and the the pinnacle of rugby is to win the Champions Cup.

[01:04:34]

So if you win that, that is a day of entrepreneurship before once you win Champions Cup, that is you've made you've reached the top. Yeah, the game, of course, is. So I would I would not feel I would not give out exit. I have decided to go on the absolute fucking last than they were in the presidential race years ago.

[01:04:53]

We're now recording it's nearly five o'clock, four o'clock in the afternoon on a Monday.

[01:04:58]

One hundred percent. Does that mean our players still have a beer or and if there is something wrong with them, like I remember seeing that picture, I think that 10 year challenge and I was actually shocked at Tom Hayes with Jon Hamm is that he plays his coach and we played against Tom. Yeah, Assamese Coach Ball was now I think he was coached I Courtemanche. I know he's got my balls and like they beat had a picture of a ten year challenge and it was Tom Hayes as captain of Exeter hauling up the championship and then ten years added it all the Japanese and you're like, Jesus Christ, that's incredible.

[01:05:32]

That is some. Yeah. Turnaround in ten years. You talk about you talk about Oncer and they're terrible. The champ is called balancers. They came for the fucking championship, you know. So we have one more thing before we knock off what we have. We have the whole fucking box, which often rugby championship as a starter. That's a bit of a well, look.

[01:05:56]

I mean, look, we don't know the INS and we don't know the ins and outs of it, but like, you know, South Africa basically line it, put it out there. You know, it's player welfare, it's management. That's fine. And but it does I think there is an undercurrent or there is chatter going on the background that we don't obviously know. But Yeah. About and leaving it all together. I mean, I know, but I'm not participating.

[01:06:16]

They lost something like eight million dollars and not participating in this just means they could have no game, no money, no one Lone Star, that's the example.

[01:06:26]

But, you know, like.

[01:06:29]

I don't think that's going to matter because. We're going to be Venezuela. We know I think they're going to do is they're going to make they're going to pay most their players in the club games coming in, I think. Yeah, well, fair enough. Look, I know, but I think look, yeah, there's a bit more than let's just let's just hope there's a competition in the first place, you know? I mean, that's why I'm not too invested in the lines yet.

[01:06:55]

But once the Autumn Games kick off, I'm pretty sure you and I will be picking out our international lines starting 15 pretty quick.

[01:07:03]

I look forward to that informative. And I look on Jimmy, I know you've got to go now and give our members extra and tell after lunch. So enjoy that and I'll stop and talk to you next week. Break every one of our problem.

[01:07:18]

That's tough stuff. All right.

[01:07:20]

Go on this. You got a good look.

[01:07:23]

Look, OK. All right. So, guys, that's it for this week. Sure. Hope you enjoyed it. And chat again next week.

[01:07:29]

Stay safe.