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Here's a fight he could make beautiful Foodworks. Oh, he sliced his way through the Irish wide eyed defense of our country, Paul. Here we go, short on the break on the outside. We had one individual trying to get some brilliant stuff from Robbie Henshaw gets on back into this game.


Hello and welcome to Episode 12 of the Up and Under podcast, brought to you by Robillard. We've got another packed show for you again this week. Myself and Jamie will be looking back on the Ireland versus France match in Paris, as well as the other Six Nations games. And of course, looking forward to the United Nations Cup and everything that's going to happen over the next few weeks and months. We also have a really good interview with Munzar and out of number two, just under who talk to us about that monster, which no English whatsoever, how 2020 has gone on there, undefiled with Ireland and how he feels Munzar progressing this season and everything else in between.


George Yogalates and I tend to back into the space and he look at the pass of to Mark to fuck Ayatullah Stanwell Park every penny because that is a different class from France. Right, so, Jamie, things are pretty good friends out there for a while. England, I suppose they didn't really they didn't show up against Italy to a certain extent. And we talked that's out six points and Italy are seven points. And I'd say that is a much easier task.


But unfortunately, we didn't beat her, did we? Yeah, like. It's a good question because I'm kind of trying to wrap my brain here for the last couple of days and you're like, is it? So so was it that. We mentally made a lot of mistakes or is our skill set? Are we at this level capable of executing? Do you know what I mean, and I don't know what you're like, what popped up for you, like over the last couple of days when you're thinking about for me, look at it.


I said, look, we were talking offline, like trying to get into the game the first 20 minutes for 30 minutes. It looked like I had a for it. I said it aloud. I was like, jeez, disintegrates, yada, mixing things up. There was kind of a variety of kick in passing in behind Cryosphere Lefroy. They were taking off. It wasn't the same old Ireland that use repeat the same thing. It was lovely. It was different or like, OK, it's not for this game.


They made some good. As I said, when you look back at the stats and dominate a lot of that first half. But to me I think it was more of a mental thing. And we look back on some of the comments afterwards. You had Andrew Conway saying that they were being told to kind of big themselves up at halftime and like you shouldn't he was like he said it himself. Why is this being said to us at halftime when we're five, six points away from winning a six nations in Paris have to be told that.


And to me and even France and he said, I don't think we believed in ourselves for the head coach come out and say that that's worrying.


Yeah. And so like the coaches and on the field, which that's on the players.


Yeah. You know, that's and that's that is worrying and. It's really worrying. But like, I'm just like I'm like literally looking at the start here, man, and like. A snapshot is basically, you know, we got like if you if you're ready to start, you wouldn't think what the score was going to be, you know what I mean? And let's be honest, that's a stock that at the end was kind of like not a throwaway, but like Gaiman, Don.


You know what I mean? So it could have been a 15 point margin here, right? But we had 54 percent possession, 58 percent territory. You know, France had 42 state territory, 48 percent, 46 percent possession, and France win 35, 27. You know, you look I remember I was just telling you something like the one that stands out massively to me is we made seven hundred and fifty eight meters. They made 536. Did the.


You know, and defensively, the stats are kind of similar, actually, defensively penalties, the 14 penalties to seven. And, you know, and the real kicker is, so we had way more. Way more of the ball, right, we made way more meters and 60, 66 percent of the time of our rockets were quick ball.


So let's zero to three seconds.


There's a 45 percent. But they never actually looked like they were. Yeah, we put them under a couple of times and they look once or twice and you can argue, OK, a couple of moments go a different way. But what's worrying for me is, yeah, I'm with you, like, chasing that like. It was really good opening. You know, we are moving them around, we need variety in our kicking game. We had a nice structure, but the structure was still kind of predictable.


Like, there was very little there was very little footwork going into tackles, very little flower, very little tip on like some larger talking during the week, some comments go on. They're enjoying it more. I don't know what they're enjoying. You enjoy losartan. You know. To me, is it like was it a situation where, like we were complaining for months and weeks that Ireland and adding variety and now it's kind of like, OK, let's add all the spices we can.


And to me, it's like they didn't even know what to do. Maybe, maybe. OK, let's let's kick. Let's pass. Let's run your mind. Let's carry on.


Thing is I actually not so. So no, no, no. What I actually think is the. So I'm looking at them gone. Weder. They're like, so when they get into 22, it's actually pretty effective when they get into that peak and go. You know, way and in particular, when you have Johnny over there because they know when to pull the trigger then and attacked his face and are excellent at it. Right. And it usually pays off a lot for us.


You know, I keep hearing it over for a try. You know, it works for us.


It was what the problem is when we get into the arm wrestle with these guys weren't quite when we direct with big sites like the majority of our our tribes come from setpiece, directly from scrummy line at you know what I mean? If you get into an IRS inside and you don't get your way there, we're not showing that we're creating. So. So what happens, though, if you're running into someone the whole time and you're not offloading, you're not tipping on like we're I'm looking again, if I if I start digging into the stats, you can pull up like.


Campbell, of all sorts that, you know, me and my staff, all of them, but like you start looking at all floats and stuff like that, like we're not up there with the offloads. You know, I think we are one of the lowest. And then we did was a 10 offloads in the early game, for example. And that bombed our number up.


Yeah, but that's not like I mean, Tenaha gigantically like, you know, that's like saying, you know, I'm, you know, just I can't even I can't even make a comparison. I, you know, I, I can go draw ten offloads against a lot of ten year olds. I can and probably have pretty good success like but by choice. Yeah. It's not at all.


So I think if I think the frustration I know for me I don't know about you and I'd love to hear your your take on this, like my frustrations that once or twice it looks like we're evolving and then we come up against the big sides of recently and it doesn't work for us.


And then it's like Mike Tyson phrases like what? You know, you get punched in the face. What's your plan then for whatever?


You know, speaking to I think we've gone backwards in the last couple of years. And I think when we look at what we have at the moment and look at our current team and how we're playing, like, I think we're gone back. Like, we kind of we went through a period there where we were always kind of to the middle, saw his team. Then when he came along and won that grand time in 09, he became like an upper major team and he got up to a top class team.


And then we kind of dropped in again and then we went back up. Oh, my God. We're actually a top class team. You are looking at Charles at sixteen thousand seventy two eighty. And then whatever has happened since the world koplik kind of seem to have gone backwards again and just turn back into where he began middle class. Look at this quiet desert not does not many guys in this world that are interlocked that you would think it probably would be normally internationals, unfortunately, when you break it down and actually be really cynical about it.


Is this going international? Is this going international? I just how many how many guys in our team will make loans next year? It that way. Look at two a.m. during the week.


Then, you know, he goes he turns around and says it was you know, we could see the fear or feel the fear in the Irish team. It's been a long time since the French side has said that about. No, he's he's he's putting on his French flair, and it's. What like? But but. You know, for him to come out and say, you're kind of going to a certain case, he kind of has a point.


They kind of said like Arsdale the ball, and we did very little with it. And we gifted them some like some like gifted and some tries. But he's got to be really interesting.


So when we step back. There's some key moments, and I think there's some key. There's going to be a lot of thinking going forward here because there's a lot of players who like a look around Baird, for example, you know what I mean? Like who were probably pissed off that they got injured and they're not in. But now. Like, it could be a case of like, right, let's give these guys go now in order because we've nothing to lose now 100 percent.


But like, I don't care if you haven't spoken. You want to get your thoughts about me personally. I was a little confused. I was actually people who disagree with me. And on Twitter, I even talked to some of my friends. The Detroit opportunity, like I mean, I don't I'm sorry, know, I disagree with you. I'm not a referee or anything. That to me, that's a stone cold penalty. Troy Keenan, the ball goes up, first of all, straight away.


The whole you look at the lawbook when it comes down to penalty, Troy, he says, first of all, you're looking at the Bouttier is the guy that makes the arrangements. So first of all, he pushes he pushes King and then he stops the ball out.


So because he made that in the loop there, all the Lobach works is the fact that you take him out of the equation straight away. He's gone as if he wasn't there, as if it was a ghost.


But he's not here paying them not for what it's like he's going to catch him.


And there's no way if he was getting across, I think he thinks he's not getting tired of what you you did you joint.


Now, I think they got the call they call right, like they're like they go for to compete in the air and he hits it out and he's not allowed headed directly out. Right. And that's what he gets paid for. And but you can't you can't say that if they can test that, that and given guess that all day. You can't say that.


I mean, you can say, oh, you take him out. Isn't always eye catching up on ninety nine point nine. It's catching up on. But he doesn't. Yeah.


Like and then if there's the two of them are competing for the ball, there's nothing saying that you can clean that up as well unless it's on his hands fall off.


Maybe he won't catch the ball. No, I don't think well, I maybe maybe I'm recalling it differently, maybe I'm calling it differently, but I thought he was Pincham on hitting it out, not not to compete and not that this like, obviously, but the whole way like if you want to if you want to, like, get really, really nitty gritty into the laws, because even though the average would happen like afterwards, if you're you're penalizing them for putting it out, then you take that man out of the equation for the entire build up to Detroit.


That man doesn't exist because he's committed an infringement. So he's not there yet.


But the infringement is the Yellowcard infringement. Which data to the ball out of the bush? The oh, so did you get yes, I'm trying to run, but I know he got the yellow card, but but he's he's just he's just saying that like and I kind of agree and he's just saying, like, yes, this is a baseball fans, but we can't determine that, you know, it's a choice or an opportunity.


Now, you can argue with Kaitlyn Doris's yellow card and like, why did he go straight to yellow?


Because I think he was the first one. They are very similar. It's a one on one situation. You cannot if it is.


Yeah, but like he's basically saying when he was there ten meters away, he's a center right winger who is ten meters away against a seven former Severns barhopping on the wing. There is no way in hell easy catch. And I'm that. I'd love to. He is not over there to feed into your conspiracy theory.


It's not a conspiracy. Look, no, no, I don't like to be honest with you like this makes it better. I think Ireland still would have lost the game. But to me it was just it might have made it a bit different. Maybe what I want is probably what was really interesting.


Like, I thought it was a good call by Johnny to do it because they were they were prodding guys like that. And I thought was really clever because they're pulling up the winger. They're isolating those corners. And you could see it coming. And look, I don't think it was an either. Like, yeah, I personally, I think it was I think he got he got a fairly right. And I like yeah, I was doing commentary.


Why don't just see the gardens up when I was a baby four years saying so my parents now see. There you go. No, we've got one guy. Sorry, I think it was good to see it from a somewhat well not independent because they just they were just constantly slagging me about England. But, you know, they definitely weren't pro pro Ireland.


You know, obviously we're not growing in any one, so we can't really go and like thing is, they're like.


Yeah, here's the really interesting thing, and this is where I think it the crowds make I think the crowds make such a big difference in those scenarios because there's zero pressure on the ref just to go very buying bang, bang, you know what I mean? As opposed to when the crowds there, they get into a really, really vocal. And I think I could persuade and to a certain degree. Well, maybe, yeah.


But I don't think any pressure on them. I thought maybe I was like, you know, maybe he needed a pair of glasses. Like he could see that it was a trophy, in my opinion. But look, I digress. We'll move on. Another big decision. Another big decision.


I thought that much was not if you agree with it. It was interesting that I thought was very contentious when I was talking to one person says that Sarasota was Saxon's decision to put towards the corner just before halftime.


Now, to me, I think I'm thinking you're taking the point all around because it's your own. At the time, you were trailing by two points that are trailing by three points.


I mean, it would have made the game five, six points, but they were trained by four or sorry to say they were chamber before. Yeah, they just they just conceded a penalty to go back to play. Yes.


So they would have got that. They would have traded my one then it would have needed what opponents would have had to get to win the six nations to me and look at it just before halftime. You don't need you've already scored to you that you need to score so you can't draw the series because it's six points. Better try our seven points from Detroit. So like you're on a very common position. You're in Paris. It's jobs literally one minute, half of our time just kicked out of Boston.


I understand this. Now, what you have to take them on in that scenario, you need to take them on.


It was just get your points about what would happen. That's my opinion. Oh, yeah.


Yeah, I look. You know, the decision rests on on at the end of the day, decision will rest on the on the captain's shoulders, you know. I mean, you know, he can have a lot of guys who can fit into that decision, tree bush and essentially look it rest on his shoulders. And it doesn't surprise me, Tony. He's he has that tactic has worked out for him a lot in the past. And, you know, he you know, he does have a tendency to to kick for the corners quite a bit and have done in the past had done in the past when when Rory was there as well.


You got to remember, Rory was there to kick the off and kicked as well. And sometimes it's worked out. And I've been in that position where you go for the corner and it doesn't work out and you end up in a situation like this where people are like, what are you thinking?


It's high risk. High reward. I get it.


And what like what are your thoughts on about half being a captain? Right. I want to put you on the spot because it's a big thing at the moment when R.S.V.P. captain on which our friend Adam. So I want to ask that question. I'll ask you from an easier question. What are your thoughts on about half in general being captain? Personally, I think it's the wrong decision because I was back my whole life. And as an outsider, you're essentially a captain anyway.


And I wasn't I was not happy. But you were always told as a center winger, like, you know, your half is your defensive leader. He makes all the call. So, like, there's a lot of pressure on you as no. Half like you're essentially a captain, if not more than the captain in many situations.


So for me, I think the team that's what I'm saying. So I can always be maybe a center or forward. So, like, forget about like, oh, wait, are Johnny Sexton should be captain? I don't think no. Half should be captain. I think it's a poor decision overall. Look, over the years there hasn't been that many of them. I think about half a deck captain should be someone in the end that the kind of I don't know about anywhere in the pack, really essentially and or maybe a essentially.


Yeah, I looked I really think personally, I think you've got to be in the trenches, so you've got to be in the pack personally. But look, different leaders. Here's the thing. The different leaders pop up in different ways. And I actually think there's a big leadership void in that team. And you saw it when Johnny came off 100 percent year.


There's a big leadership void there, some guys, you know, either aren't or aren't leaders in that way or aren't ready to step up to being a leader in that way and.


But saying that there's been plenty of really go see this, the thing is that there's Frozan that there's there's so many people who are contrary to that, you know, I mean, there's been great captains that have been, you know, back three players, centers, tens, nines, you know, front rows, the whole lot. But I you know, we're talking about leadership. I mean, I still think he's the man for the job.


And I think there's still a big step from him and everyone else to make it difficult because he's got half he already has enough leadership responsibilities as I would have. I like when you were to go. You have to make a decision or do your cake or not when you are the old half or what do you have to do this already? He's already there trying to call it all the battle moves. He's already there trying to marshal his defense. He's already are trying to tell you guys, OK, you know what I mean?


Like in terms of bandwidth, you could argue maybe for someone who is a couple of years into their career, but like Kladno.


Yeah, he's only 35, 35 Dromard. He's at the top of at least ten years. Twelve years.


I mean, he's been doing like he's plenty of bandwidth to be on to be dealing with that. Right. It'd be different if you're starting out right. Or maybe different if you're a Rockburn or Joey Carbury or something. Maybe.


And but as you said as well, like the big decisions and Robbie games happen in the pack. And that's where kind of the decisions where you really need to get into the word referee or stuff goes wrong. It's in the line out. It's in the breakdown. It's in the scrum. So you need someone, as you said, in the trenches who's in there, who's involved in the ground for.


Yeah, we have I don't know if we have those type of leaders. You know what I mean is I mean this in a positive, you know, like I'm sure we have guys in the leadership group that are in the PAC. Right. But that doesn't necessarily make you the guy to be, you know, the pack leader or the you know, the guy.


If Johnny goes off your second in command or whatever it is, you know what I mean? And, you know, and then there's everyone, different guys or different types of characters as well. So, look, it's not as not as straightforward as we think is what I'm trying to allude here. Bush. I still think he's like, I'll come back to it. I think he's the man for the job. And I think really the bigger question here for us is, OK, there's actually not a whole lot they have to tweak to the game maybe.


Look, the question really becomes is do we have the players that are have the mindset or philosophy or a capability to play a game that has a bit more dynamism, dynamism to it in terms of offloading, you know, Tippin on the pass and play with a bit more imagination and. And that leads into really good this really good opportunity for for for undefiled now coming into the autumn series or whatever the hell it's called, and to to experiment and to bring some new guys through who will come at this in a different way, because, you know, some players would it definitely wasn't a good day for them.


And, you know, in fairness, I don't think it was a really a fantastic day for anyone. And there were guys you had who were better than the rest of them. Right. But I don't think there was an outstanding the only one who I say who is consistently all around good was James Ryan.


Yeah, fantastic. I think the only thing that worried about him was I thought at times he struggled in terms of calling the line out. And you kind of decide if you look back, I was going to get analysis on it. And you can see there's a few times where he kind of looked and kind of was a bit bemused and a bit kind of confused as to why he hasn't called me, like, not for Ireland. That was always Hendo job.


And, you know, in fact, that's it. Yes. I'm saying it's a big job, a big job. Like it's a big job. Like I mean, you can have the best Packers and second all as long as you're honest. And if they're not. All right. Forget about it. You know, that's something that's that's going to happen.


But the thing is, is unfortunately. When are you going to give the kid the job to do it? We have to. He has to learn like he has to go through. But what does he want to send their children to? And if you missed it, I said, do you think we're missing a dog, Urashima, the moment? I think that's something that I remember. I was talking to him this time last year alluding to, and he was always saying to us, that's why I always love playing a show on a brain.


Like we're not talking about the old fashioned doglike, like the modern dog. Let going to get stuck in a guy that doesn't get back are going to always kind of, you know, bend the rules to a certain extent. And it's I'm sure you'll play, but not on my show. You might have a small bit yourself.


Well, I loved I loved I loved playing with Larry. I call him Larry now, but that's I'll tell you that story off line. And I love him. I love playing with. Because I am.


Yeah, he has that fight and he has a fight and he had to fight to get into the academy. He had to fight to get into the the the the Landser squad. You know, he didn't come the traditional route that most these guys are like in Leinster anyway. Most of them are coming from St Michael's or Blakroc and, you know, nostalgias. But they have really, really good programs there. But and, you know, there's a bit of a path there while the path for Shanny.


The fettuccine for Sharni or Taig Furlong wouldn't have been exactly the type Furlong would have would want across from the church, Kinealy wouldn't want to cross them, you know what I mean? Not exactly linear path that people think they might.


And you look at that park right now and rechange trying to have a bit of bite them, you know what I mean?


But, like, I don't really know. Yeah, that's it.


Like this the other thing, the adjacent like do we do we have to do it like is there like so can we have them for you.


I definitely can't have enforcers now or to a certain extent you can.


Look I mean you kind of the old fashioned ones I put like I'll give you a great example. Even over the weekend with someone like Sam Cain, like he like illegally pretended to pass the ball off of the back of them all. Like what? You're not allowed to like you're not allowed give the the notion that the ball is out and go again and you don't want to choiceful like and these are small little things that he got away with. Like I don't think we have that in our team.


I think.


Oh yeah. Like you said, you're talking with someone playing on the trade on the very edge. I'm not saying like an old fashioned dog. I'm not talking about a people policy or I may call where's my dog? I want someone who like and there's plenty of them out there.


We don't we don't we don't have someone like O.J. who lives on the edge around the right.


And we don't. I don't think we do. I don't I don't I don't think we do need you need at least one in your team and you do. And I'm sorry, no matter how far the game evolves, the closer we might have maybe someone like Peter Amaney. But even him, he's he's gone.


Well, maybe maybe that's why maybe we we well, I don't think we've really had one since Shanny.


You know what I mean, because. I don't I don't I don't think we've had and maybe that's because of the way we got to coax them to be told exactly what to do and not make mistakes. And like someone egomania described really well over the weekend when we were working and he was like, it's like Ireland. They're painting by numbers. And France are in some sort of crazy expressionism form of painting here. I was actually at the bulls and I was told I was too small and actually had to make a decision to go back to your farm and then out of nowhere, a monster popped up and thought it is it really the right decision to come over here?


And we're going to make it a lot of strain on me as a as a person as well. I think I made it clear to everyone with my first speech when I arrived that I couldn't speak at all. I think I just said hello. Everyone just started laughing in the room, you know, and it made it for humor for me, makes things easier. And I started speaking English to my wife at home and language so important to express yourself because I wanted to really be part of the group by speaking the language.


And I think the latter really rallied around me, know, and wanted to make me part of the squad and part of the families even inviting me today to the homes. You know what? The Irish culture, it's just that everyone is part and everyone is welcome and let's make it great for them. I think it's very important to have a good support structure around you as a person and as a player. First thing I do is see what I can control.


Talk to someone I really trust and I have respect for. I can give me an honest opinion back to what I really spoke a lot to is actual you know, he is someone that really sat down with me, improve my game, because that is something that I had to change as well. If it's a big thing, then we'll deal with as soon as possible with something smaller than I just saw normally, just author of I am such a stunner and I am taking control.


Next up, a chat with Munster and Ireland, no wonder who was on hand today to announce a tackle your feelings pro app AdOne as part of the hashtag I Am Taking Control campaign, which encourages people to take control of their mental well-being using principles about sport and positive psychology. Hi, how are you? I'm good, thanks. The video is absolutely brilliant. I didn't realize you told little English when I first came over.


Yeah. And still to this day, like, I get myself in conversations where I start thinking of what I want to say, but then you just I'm just gone. Like, I stumble and I stumble and then I'm in trouble, you know? So I had Bobby. I can barely have a conversation to explain where I can tell you where my family is from and then that's a. That must be tough. Must be hard. Yeah, yeah, it was tough, you know, personally wise was very tough, you know, because I would come home and he told me that attriting today, I felt that we could have done this or I wanted to say this and change this in the game.


And then I couldn't because I couldn't express myself and say it took me about two or three years to get that rolling. I was comfortable talking in the meeting was. No one's going to laugh at you, but I felt that, yes, I'm not comfortable, I don't have the light and I don't have the right words to say that at that moment, you know, so I didn't have to trust myself to come out and say, look, this that's what I want to do.


You also mentioned in the video the story that we all know that, you know, you were told you were too small. When you look back now, it is that light, a fire in your belly, I suppose.


And yeah. Well, yeah, I think I look back now the hope of never going to get taller. I think they were more probably talking about length. But I remember at that stage I was googling everyone like I was Googling Richie McCaw, David Pocho, Michael Hooper didn't read. I like his massive sheet. My father-In-law got it. Me and I was like looking at their whites and they and the abilities and stuff and I was like, I'm not far off here like it.


This is a is a big match. They like these big guys who are small, small guys. And I was like, I'm not far from actually in the middle of someone, so I don't know if something is wrong with me personally. And then I realized it's not me and I just try to pick up a little bit of weight. And yeah, it's for me to actually, because I've never I've never I was never big into German, like full on understanding what I was doing.


I was just getting my program, doing my things. And I like I like that be done this onto the page. But it didn't turn me into a place where it formed. For me personally. I'm actually straight on to I need to know what I'm doing, why am I doing this? And I think it's important my ask me a question here and there to know where you are, what you're doing, just not doing it, because then I feel that muscle memory explodes and then you turn into a better player.


Our Billie Holiday Sandiford has a funny story involving you and Karkh from when you first arrived around Christmas. Can you tell us a little about that?


Yeah, a great story is actually going to save this of strolling the we went out because I was there for like five days and still in Corduroy Park Hotel in the. Berio manip picked me up and went on to call. I think I had like 60. That was all I had with me and we had a great night, as we always do, and I think we would to 12 hours of Christmas and. About seven, I can't remember, we went to one place in the club and the boys upstairs and I went down to get food or whatever, got outside, and the guy didn't want to let me back in and I didn't have anyone's number.


So I literally was like, right, I'm in trouble. Know where to go. I take a taxi delivery. Now, I'm not going to make it. I'm going to have to sleep in the street tonight. This guy literally said that there's no way you're playing for months, that you can't speak English. I'm not going to let you back up there. So I know I haven't played a game that way. So the only thing I can remember is the lads used to live close to the guide dogs where they used to train them in Cork.


And I got in a taxi and I told the guy, I want to go to the blind dogs, drop me. Like, I dunno, he was probably from somewhere else. You probably understood me. Drop me about two kilometres from the house. And I just walked and I saw him and he's gone. Gone into the house. God, I'm safe. But that I was that was the laughing side of it. The boys thought they lost me.


I thought I lost myself, you know.


So how did you improve so quickly? Did you get intensive lessons or what did you do? I was going into intensive lessons, but then I realized that I need to speak. Irish, English, you know, and I need to get the language of the boys in the squad and I just force myself to listen to certain conversations and then come home and spoke jobbery. I remember going back to South Africa last summer and speaking English to someone. They were like, this guy is confused, like he's got an Irish slang going through and the South African accent.


And the problem of this is on the other side, we go back to Africa. People don't understand English speaking these because of Irish slang.


So it's actually a great, great I'm in the middle of nowhere just looking back on twenty twenty, I suppose I had a few days, I think about Paris and then I was obviously disappointing, but how would you rate twenty twenty with Ireland and under any foreign policy.


Yeah. Look it was again was covered and all those things everyone knows about it you know. So it felt like a just a was we are coming back like last two games because you felt that you've done that, you've popped it, you know, and suddenly have to come back and perform. And I think we did well, just fine margins again, I don't think we were far off. We could have been first in the competition, could have been second.


We ended up third. We were not far off. Again, I think the team adapted the quickest coming out of covid is probably England and France. They came back and just kicked off where they left, you know. So we again, I'm saying we're not far off. We might have Paris was probably not our best not we made a lot of mistakes looking back to the game today or yesterday, made a lot of mistakes. And we had a lot of opportunities that we could have used.


I know to old cliche, use your usual opportunities, but in that game you have to his international game. It's a Six Nations title game, you know. So, yeah. But the good thing about it is, as you just said, we can just jump on back onto it in the next few weeks. So looking forward to that. I just go back to consider for a second look at that most of the season, twenty four wins out of four.


Now, a lot of young guys coming through real depth there. You must be excited to go back and get into the Champions Cup and have a go at it this year, even with the way you're playing, like it's it's looking like a new monster. Um, yeah, I think it was just. Well, there's still time to show what we can do as a as a squad and as a player and as a as a group. But I think we've worked on the last few years and you need games.


You need to when you pull together. We know that to get a semi quarter. So those are important things for us. That's our biggest main drives. And then I just said to someone earlier, I'm not sure what it was just yet, but the group we have and the talent coming through and the leaders coming through is important for us, the squad. And you never know who's going to who's going to move on or who's going to finish up.


So it's important to develop a squad. And if you want us doing a great job with that, these is giving young guys the tools to make sure that when they get into the squad, they perform. And you can see that there's a few good points, if I have to mention the teams on the weekend to get the names.


We're just looking at some of those young guys coming through, like we said, Craig Casey, Pat Healy, even John Hardness. So any guys there you think that are like really on the cusp of being internationals in the next year or two?


Or did I just think up in the squad now, chandeliers, the Finian's, the great coaches, they talking about all those guys know surely being told it's going to be unbelievable, openside, you know, so they all got a different strong points. And yeah, I enjoy playing with them, especially with the, with a young group of that coming through because they've, they fit in straight away and they, they actually pushing the whole squad to be better.


Just on your own farm there again, we're sitting there already or you're pretty much prepared here. Yesterday you were nominated for six straight here. What do you put it down to? Like, even if the team isn't playing well, you always seem to have a good game or seem to understand our performance. Is that down to your preparation or is it your commitment and work right on the pitch? Is there something you can kind of pinpoint and go, well, you're always so consistent?


Well, thanks for that. Appreciate that. Thanks, man. I spoke to people who differ with you, but I spoke to I spoke to a few friends of my wife last night and saying that me personally is probably not the best advice to anyone. Young guy, if you're right, this relistening me personally, I just want to make sure that I'm in the best me personally. But everything I do in the gym, on the pitch and then the recipe for success, I don't think for me personally there is I just want to be happy to play with a smile and work your ass off, basically.


Oh yeah. And those yeah. It is a few things you can read do that. Don't leave anything unturned and don't leave anything behind because those things will creep into your game. Enjoy it. So if you know that you walk on the beach and he's done absolutely everything to be the. You can't say, well, we didn't put people all you can do. Thanks, Chairman.


There's my and on this one hundredth appearance for Ireland, is he going to get a try, digs that shoulder and gets there? Well, you saw power from the French in defense. Now you see the power from the Irish at attack and on each ton can help get your score, John. What do we do? So going forwards was kind of kind of teetering? Well, I don't know. I know your thoughts. You and I have been what's happened in the background now.




So I know you need to get some things off your chest before turning today into the incident kind of automation. So we kind of look at the England game.


So like England are, you know, if anything, by the way, by the way, how side was watching England lift the trophy?


It was like I said or someone saying, I think it was a it was just like literally that photo is 20/20 personified. It's like it's like it's like a zoom trophy doing it. It's like it's like it's like you handed me a trophy or know, lifting a resume going, yeah, I won the Six Nations. It was very weird.


I got sent to press these like I'm not my boss and his voice is really weird. This is just awkward. But anyway on England like I think if anything from what I've seen, I've gone backwards since the World Cup. They peaked at the World Cup. There are mixing things at the moment. They're not as good as you are. They're very beatable. We have many automation's wells are absolutely Wales. Our man, you know, after losing Charlotte Ferguson with Gatland gone out, now they've got David Moyes and they're in a mess at the moment.


They know what's going on. I think it is rare for to take and come to a lot of nations. I think Scotland are improving. But if you look at the automation's itself in terms of mixing things up, like we don't know how things are in terms of it is we know Lahmar won't be back to good chance to come back. And that's no offense to Antiparticle Player. We'll talk for a long you know, he's one of the best ideas in the world.


Well, I think that would just make us stronger. Of course it is. But you're going to have someone like Byroade coming back. You're going to have Henderson coming back.


Please, God, we can get it back in. To starboard, I think, is the automation's, I think if you stand in for one of them, at least one of those games, oh, Honasan, at least one, he needs to get in there because once we've seen is a of what we see, is this fellow really that good or is he going to want to actually call Tyburn?


Was thighbones showed up at the same time?


You need to kind of you need to get these guys in and part is one of those kind of how to explain it like and you would probably agree here, like he's one of those kind of special talents that comes along every now and and joining me, because, you know, he's he's J.R. like he's he's he's like autobahns.


Berlanti Hands is brilliant. This guy, he's got a little bit X factor to him.


He just goes like, don't go to jail. Throw Pasko your own kid.


Yeah. So he's like you saw like when J.R. came onto the scene, you saw one guy who's like, I told you, I come onto the scene like if I say if you look from an Irish perspective, cosac Earl Driscoll, there was very few. When you have a guy, L'Amour's the one who's like 1920, you're like, OK, this guy has to go straight in because he has it that the sooner you get him, the better.


Look, a lot of you guys are kanakas, a lot of guys like Dick Yourself and Charland and Ahlem who went on to be like two, three times loansharks, but he didn't make it until 2024. It's very, very rarely you see a guy at like nineteen twenty to go straight in and he's one of those very, very one in a thousand talents to go, OK, get him in there, let's see if he can do it if he doesn't want to do it.


We tried to you know what I mean. Yeah.


Yeah I so I'll be with you on that. Like that. I think those four definitely to four second roles going forward here that he's going to play around with. And I think he's going to probably give. I think he should give jail more time, a calling, and so maybe you might see a bit more of him than Henderson, you know, because then Hendee usually calls it, yeah, we know what he does. And he he's he's a good player.


And I think Baird needs some international time. So I think I hope see him get two cups, you know, if not three, you know, one of them is one of them a start anyway and. What do you think? Look at the back row, got Libby coming back, you know what?


What did you think? How did you think they went for the last two games? And do you think there should be changes coming into this autumn series?


I think I still think calendars matter what every six hours is going to be either six or eight going forward. I don't think he I think out of the French game is one of the better players that played. I think he's still got on has everything I think Will Conures is good. And he was brilliant guy, certainly, but he kind of got a small we found out against France in terms of the level step up, kind of caught him and made him.


Didn't have a bad game. Can have a good game later. So I still think I would love to see how we can get lady back in there because you all know how good. Levius I thought Sandra had a fantastic game. I know you might disagree with me there. I thought there was one of our better players. I thought he was absolutely everywhere. I was I was super consistent over those two games. So going forward, I don't think standard needs minutes in autumn.


If you want to play and it's up to yourself, you know what he brings, think someone to mind. He needs minutes. You know what he brings. So I think need to work on getting many minutes, possible conures minutes. I need to get in and you need to get your minutes to go. He's, you know, going forward, get them minutes and that's me to phrase it.


Twenty, twenty, twenty three.


Who's there to read my back.


All please. Hopefully going well I would say Darris leave Stender. See, I don't. I don't I don't see that. Well, look, I'm saying that things can change, but it's me saying there's only talk we don't like and he's consistently Silvy if things don't get better. And he's like I mean, like, you look at you, you're pretty bad. Some of your best will be like after I like you.


What I mean, the problem the problem I have is, is that I just think like he carries he carries loads, but he has the most carries in the Six Nations.


But out of the top four ball carriers in the Six Nations, he has the fewest yards per carry. So for me, that means he's just he's trying to get the numbers right and he's very, very direct.


Well, if you want to do strong, but if you win the World Cup, you can just switch Dorice and put in six. And that's still the same 100 percent.


I just so. Well, so what I'm thinking here is, is, is, is that game going to be for anyone now. Right. Any anyone that direct game, is that going to be the game type of game that we're going to play? That will be success for us over the next two years in 2023? Personally, I don't think so. And because unless you're one hundred and twenty odd kilos. You know, when you believe in Ebola, I don't know if that works right and.


I think we need we need more dynamic footwork, Paul, playing back roles, and that's why I think there's going to we might potentially see an evolution. And so if we work our way back from that to your point, I think we know what we get from C.J., we know what we get from Pete. Right. We need other lines to get a bit more game time. We've got Jack Owen, who potentially going to be back as well, know even.


Jack, could you just beat me to the point, Jack Donahoo as well, and get those guys, you know, get a minute.


Give minutes, man, because there doesn't seem to be I think there needs to be an evolution. There is what I'm what I think for us to be successful going forward in that sense and the same, we could say the same in nine and 10.


I think we both we've talked about loads.


You know, the big thing that I'm sorry, and it's so important, like, are we really going to win the World Cup? But it's hard to talk to nine year old Janet Jackson. Janet Jackson is only one of the best players that are playing for Ireland. But, you know, time catches up with everyone and we're looking three years ahead like and at the moment, Cadbury was always supposed to be the the the next guy in line was like, we don't know what the story is for this injury.


Hopefully, please, God, we can get it back on a pitch, maybe next season. But outside of that, like, it doesn't seem to be a lot of trust. Put it in Ross Perot and he seems like he's just a deputy and he needs to get out of that and not just be deputy an outsider looking around like it's not in there at the moment. Like and you look at any team successfully, you cannot win a European Cup.


You cannot win a World Cup, you cannot win a Premiership title. You cannot win a pro 14. When I would go down half, you just can't. It's impossible. And any of the teams you've looked at, any of the teams you've been successful and how important you've always had a Johnny S.R.O. Nagara or you look at England, they've had a Wilkinson. Our New Zealand had a character. Or do you know what I mean? It's so important.


And if you're public, to be honest right now, you need two of them.


Yeah, we feel like now like John Giannis has been pushed like a Tom Brady look. We're trying to sock as much as we can out of. There's no one else there when they're not sourcing to talk to that.


The step, the step change between him and everyone else. It's just too it's too much for step. Like you've got people like OK has come back up north and yeah man this was he's only Waitaki to three.


No, it's still chance.


You got to think he's got Carti as well. And you know, you've got other guys, you've actually got a lot of nice talent coming through Monsur actually go down hard.


Right. Look, we've got support. You're talking about good old hearts. You're talking about a former world player of the year. You know what I mean? This is this is a huge hit.


But hold on. Hold on. Take a step back. Jonny, have to play second fiddle. For a long time in his career, he was second fiddle to Philippe Kanta ponytailed. Philippe got injured. He was second fiddle to Raj till Deqi kind of Raj Rajaratnam on his back.


I'd like Turkey to talk dirty, do you know what I mean? Like where? Sex and talk to you five now. And he still doesn't have a Johnny Sexton and on his back he's nowhere near had a car rental car. He had injuries.


Yeah. And we do need we do need to bring someone through. But I think this is the time for us to try and bleed a bit more talent to try and bleed Rossborough in a bit more hurry burn his brother as well as an exceptional talent.


But you need someone you need to monitor the way he pushing on his back.


Like you look back as a Negro, Nogueira is one of the best hands the game has ever seen. And I'm sure you have no problem saying that he was pushed, literally forced out to pasture like tarty thirty four, because you have Johnny Sexton coming up and you need that and we don't have that at the moment. Or saxum can can just chip away now and he can have a bad game and still be pushing on us.


But then if you're Andy Farrell. Right. What do you do. So you're not sure.


But see that's the thing. No one can do anything like it's normally you'd have a young guy there to snap on his heels. There's no one here literally go up and take. And that's what's that old term like where you grab that fucking last, reached the glass ceiling, grabbed that brass ring. Get up and take it. It's not there. There's no one taking it. There's was no one pushing for. So you've no choice. And it's not an insult to any Texana.


Anyone? No, no, no.


But then then what do you do? So if you're undefiled, right. What are you doing here coming into the autumn series where it's a nothing competition, essentially.


So if you can find a New Zealand or something that might they might be able to. That's all your grandparents? No, no, no. I'm like, well, it's too late now because they won't be qualified right now. Are you going to be grandparents? We can get them straight. And it's like, you know, you're going to find out.


New Zealand already haven't capped when he was five and but and and he probably was from one of the islands and and.


Yeah. Like it. So if you're if you're trying to give someone some game time at ten. Right. Who do you give it to. At the moment, it's tough out there, Osburn is the only person there really that can make that up because he's going that's proven for Landstar at a high level in Chamizal quarterfinal, semifinals, finals. He's the only guy that's really paid the big games.


That's why you like mad. Would you bring MoD's back into the fold? Bring Martin? I bring I would bring that back in. I bring him back in and give him and give him another go and see. OK, you should offer it because he's played well the last couple games. Also as it is, he's not all like he still only in his early 30s. There's a chance really.


Well he's what he keeps and stuff really well. He's got problems.


He's in good hands and he's in good shape. He's a good player. After that. Look, hopefully he can get Carbury back. Munster at the moment that you know, I think JJ Hannon's time has come and gone. I think Ben Heelys too young to bring in at the moment. I don't think he's there. I think he's had his hands. He didn't take us outside or not. You can't look around again.


Who's there? OK, so moving up, moving on to nine then. Do you think it's an easier conversation at 9:00 or do you think there's a big gap between MA and everyone else? It's the same again, and it's not like there's the only goal at the moment. That's really what is a small. But maybe he'll be there tomorrow. The only going to really exciting tournament is Craig Casey. OK, you look at the rest of those guys, they're all in there on the same age.


They're all 28, 29 year olds near Miami. And Joe Gibbs Parks, you're John Coneys like, you know, people give out like always and young John Coneys the same age. All. It's not like you're like, oh, we need to bring this new young guy in. Like he just bloomed much later. Murray Murray is still allowing two times, three times Lanesboro or whatever. It is probably going to be a three time line. Yeah, he's he's miles ahead of John Goony at the moment.


I'm sorry. And he always will be. Now he has more pain to get, Robillard. But you still put him there every time over John Cornyn. As good as I think Jamison.


I think Jamison added a different dimension to nine that we could we could expect. He's not going to displace money.


He's good enough to come off the bench from early. That's all he is good enough for. That's all he ever will be. That's fair. Yeah. Do you know what I mean?


So the only person there is maybe you could look applauding and look, maybe during the do do what New Zealand do, Craig Cassian put them on the bench against Fiji, put them on the bench against Wales, put him straight. And he's been training with our team for the last three weeks. Give me a concern. And you guys know what I mean? He goes on, you're 21 years of age. Go. Let's see what happens. There's no harm.


OK, so.


So this feels like I'm interviewing you tonight and moving down through line then.


So centers look, we've been pretty good with centers, so I don't think we need to it is when we need to get it.


We need to give you a fired more minutes because we already know. We know exactly.


Yeah. And I think I think McCluskey McCluskey McCluskey's had a he's got the wrong end. That is not a mistake. He's had a tough deal in terms of opportunity wise the last few years. And I think he deserves. I think he deserves a bit of game time and Chris. I think Chris Brown's hands are underrated as well. So maybe give Bundy a bit of time off and put Chris in there. I thought Robbie was actually very good and.


And he was the only one that actually was sensation that Troy was absolutely class. It's been a long time since we've seen that, Rob. And I want to see more Robbie Henshilwood, our top 12 or 13. But that's all good.


What do you think of about three? What are we to do with our battery?


We're trying to figure this one out, like as it is a disaster at the moment, unfortunately. Right. To allow more steffani out for the rest of the year. We don't even go back and forth back. Rob Karenni is off doing his Virgin Media stuff and he's off to Australia.


What did you think of Rob's comments at around 15 at the weekend? I've always watched by the BBC.


Oh, well, Paul got a bit heated. He got a bit of heat for the puppy. But that's stupid. Like I said, annoys me like I wrote an article about it, like, you know, obviously I don't care. I've seen many in our farm international where it after on Channel four or BBC or ITV. It's just a thing you get over. Don't bring politics. And if you want to be a puppy, Levemir a puppy.


I would say for a I didn't realise I came out and just checked online after doing the commentating thing. I saw everyone's blown up and I was like, what is he said, what is it? And then as usual, I was like, Oh, it's the usual.


OK, but anyway, back to the full back and back and winger's debate, which is pretty big.


But obviously you've got all you've got to come back in. So I think there is probably someone he's another as you mentioned, he's a one generational player. He's a guy who will probably still be there from work. So I don't think we should push him out to pasture yet. People are trying to say, ah, no, he's not. Ours is an absolute superstar. He's still a suitcase himself, an unbelievable Neki still faces, but he is on that right wing going forward.


Right left wing. You can't overlook Gemzar regardless of whether he's played any minutes, international or not. He's coming straight.


Oh, say in my book. In my book, he's he's trading Stosz. One hundred percent. One hundred percent. I agree with you 100. Finally, we agree on something, but I wouldn't.


The left wing for you. For you, he's like halfway. He's not really Lanser. He's like he's a Kiwi really. For you is me.


So Maori to me. Like I look much more relaxed. Right. He doesn't have Diffa accent. Oh he's fine. He's good in my book. Anyway, the big decision going forward is at fullback, so I don't want to push Cornwall with him and I'd love to see England fullback, but I just don't think that was in there. I know that he's going to get in there. That's why he put there to me. If you go if you look at long term, someone said it's been here today.


And I kind of I kind of told us, which is you're right. It's like Hubel Keenan is probably our long term option, a fullback.


Well, no one else is grabbing it, you know.


Do you give them a chance, their luck? Because Doctor had his hands in there. He's had a chance to have roaster and he's had two games over Ireland.


Look, the problem and I've been pretty consistent with this and I would love for me to be wrong is. Like, he's not in the form that he was and he's unbelievable on go forward attackable, you can see that when he's running from the back defensively, I think he's poor. Yeah.


Yeah. It's very hard to back it feel to defensively.


You're in a lot of space. But he's like, you know, Rob made some comments that I thought were on point in terms of, you know, could he have done better in certain situations? I think he could have I think a lot of people think that, and that's why I think Rob was like was his bread and butter like, you know, and that was one thing that people look for. But he didn't make mistakes. He made the bread and butter up.


He rarely, rarely let the ball bounce in the backfield. No, no. He was incredible. I mean, he caught after everything that moves and like defensively it is very tricky in one situation being a fallback. But he very rarely it's not about being good defensively one on one. It's making sure you don't allow yourself to get into one to one situation as fullback. So that comes down to your positioning. Yeah. Do you know what I mean?


And like Rob rarely ended up in that position where you had to defend Moneybomb because he was in the right position in the first place to make sure he can push a guy out or Oshri mode or have a Zwinger there or whatever there. And that's that's ducktail. You can't just that doesn't come straight away. Like, he didn't have that moment and he's no confidence. No, he needs to just let him throw it.


Yeah. Look, you'd be interested to see what happens. I mean. You know, it's a weird one, is it does the coach back mind for the to give him confidence and hope that he comes back into it? Has he earned enough credit for that or is it like. Right. Actually, I'm going to have to light a bit of a fire under him here now.


And actually, I think the latter I think I think I think he's had like he's he's been kind of he struggled for reform since really.


And that was one more games in the World Cup. He had a few poor games, arrogance, whereas in England, even in that six nations, he wasn't great towards the end of it. I think that kind of that farmers have been dipping for a while to like.


But you got to think about it like when you broke into the team, he wasn't he broke into the team when the team was a team that was dominating and given him go for the ball.


Exactly. Exactly. So now is the time to light a fire under his belly as opposed to back and back him. Because I think you've reached a point where you've given him the four or five games to go, OK, show me what you're made of. We're not playing well at the moment. Have you got any plans? I know you haven't. OK, maybe I need to light a fire under belly because he's only a kid still like what is he, 23 or 24?


He's a young guy, so there's plenty of fire in the belly. I think it's now. It's OK, Jacob, take a step back. Play. Show me what you got. We lost our lead up to Champions Cup up fourteen. When have you back in? Next next year. That's my opinion. Now, I don't think it's going to happen, but I don't like you being you bring it, you bring it in, you bring in people.


Hugo came to 15. You say that for this audience and you say that for this next two and a half year cycle, going to be three. You can go. That's not a bad back through to experiment it, actually. And and Stockdale's sorry. Can you put him on the bench. I don't, I don't know. Can you put him on the bench. Does he cover enough for you. He does have that amazing canon of the boot.


I think he can find himself back in based on if he plays really well or he can fight a sell back in based on it was always, I mean, injury or something like that. But like I think from what I've seen in the last couple of years, you can't like James Lowe has taken on some of the best players in the world from every from every different country. He's taken on team to be called from England, from Wales, from France.


And he's obliterated everything in front of him. He's played at international level already for tomorrow. I think you can't not put him in there. I think James is always going to come straight in and obliterate everything if I have that much comfortable.


But that's that's my question. And you put Stockdale out of the twenty three or you just put him on the bench.


You see how things shape up, like in terms of the early Ernes as I know what that you said.


So Hugo Hugo early and you can. But I want to mention because Sharaku does you feel like because he's not, he's not really a fullback so. If anything, like if you're going to go with our battery, you might have Lahmar dimensioning it or you might have been on the bench and Limeade fullback, what Stockdale do you put him on the bench? No factor is not in. I would I don't think he's not the kind of guy that's going to come on.


As you said, he's a guy that does well when you've got front football. So he's going to come on and finish off the game for you, but he's not going to be off the bench when you're losing. What good is dactylic off the bench when you're on the back foot? You know, he just might he might. Do you know what I mean? And that's no offense to him because that's the guy he is. He's the kind of guy that plays well that he like.


He is one of the best finishers I've seen in a long time.


When you've got one football and that's not taken away from that does a lot of like because he's a he's a big boy and he can receive a lot of England's backstory. Everyone thinks their class, but their only class because of the way the rest of the team plays. You know, guys like Elliot Daley and guys like Anthony Watson and guys like Johnny Electronical because of the team training. That brings us nicely back to the point.


That's the problem I have with our PAC that we're not we we we're trying it in this direct way plan that's too predictable. And then if we don't win that battle, the knock on effect of that is the fact that our back line won't get as quick ball and. And that space will be eaten up and it won't be easy for our back three to really come into the game and make a difference.


Now, the other thing as well is that I have a funny feeling they're going to try and develop basically someone who can step in as first receiver bit more, just like New Zealand way and the way the game is starting to go, where you tend to start to have like a 10 and a 15 or something that can play for a receiver. So you split the field and two to taking sides and we have someone there to do it.


Like Kyrie was the best Joy Carbury was the best team we've ever seen. I came at 15.


Medjani A was just like, oh well that's why that's what Lenzer wanted to do. And that's what Leinster told Joey Joey Dayside. But Joey himself has a 10, which is fine.


He's made that decision. Yeah.


But like look at you look at the Kiwis like pasteurize the world is like just play 15 because it's as simple as that.


Look at on the weekend, he was absolutely savage and you're getting the best of all worlds into the same team. Look, why not play your best players when you can? If you if you had like, you know, if you've, if you have done character and Giannis exiting your team you're going to bench one of them. Oh you've got to make sure you find a way to get to know what I mean. You just find a way. Does it matter where to play.


Find a way to do it.


And that's with tight with time running out between the two of us here. Because I wanted to still go to college, right? So I just got off to my MBA here in five minutes ago, you know, we're not all brainiacs like you finishing and brainiac summariser.


What are the chances are they got a lot of words out of that. Does it summarize at a chef?


Are the gold is a potential silver. It's very quiet. This is an example. Yeah, that's not good, that's not good.


Podcast noise and I think. I think, OK, we're not we're not crap, we're not right, we do have quality players in this side and. What I'd like to see was pick the best players that we have for this autumn series and guys who have the most potential and give them a go as well and try to evolve our way and not be as predictable.


So we were doing it, mixing up our kicking game and trying to split the field. But then for some reason, we just default into this this very predictable way playing.


So if we can, we can if we can evolve that and other players involved with it or we pick the players that are capable of doing it. And I think damn will will will be able to change your game because we're never going to be the biggest. We're never going to be as big as England. We're never going to be as big as France. So let's not try and get into an arm wrestle with them.


Well, and up. Not very ominous. Not Jamie said once the right players picked in the right positions but won't mention any names, but has changes to be made.


Very, very, very. That was that's a brilliant answer. If I've heard it like the most political answer ever. But it doesn't beat around the bush in Glasgow. Yeah, we need to make changes.


But I'm not telling you where I touch go. I'd go to your MBA. What have you got to go do? I got a I got a bounce. Yeah. Good luck. All right, so, guys, that's it for this week's show. Hope you enjoyed it and chatty again next week. Stay safe.