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[00:00:15]

And so we just take comfort zone of trying to bust through. OK, the first receiver now and then he said, I need to pay lip. Hello and welcome to Episode 13 of The Up and under a podcast brought to you by Robillard, we've got a very special show for you this week with myself and Jamie, joined by former Ireland Leinster and Loynes Baquero Sean O'Brien following the launch of his autobiography, a few short chat shows about his move to London Irish and how it's going so far, the current state of Irish rugby, as well as some of the best stories and excerpts from his new book, The Lads also answer some fine questions, including the best backroad they've ever come up against and the biggest regret they have in their careers.

[00:01:12]

But first up, a quick chat with Ireland and Leinster Senator Gary Ringrose, who was on hand today to launch an Haviva competition whereby the nation's most loyal and passionate supporters will be given the chance to sing Ireland's call alongside the Irish rugby team before to take on Wales. In the first match of the mini series this Friday to enter the competition, fans nationwide and abroad are invited to e-mail Ireland's call at Sparty Omoi.

[00:01:34]

They would love the chance of seeing Ireland's call alongside the Irish team judicial sex and just checking to see if it was on ringrose locks to an regrows, comes through from Ringrose regrows is going to score. This is still alive. There's been moments when he's naive in the first half, but that is a touch of genius from Gary Ringrose or Gary Hobel as well.

[00:02:10]

First of all, how is your healing? And have you an updated timeframe as to when you can expect to be back playing again?

[00:02:17]

Thanks very much. Yeah, it's getting there certainly to the first couple of days, post after the 12th and whatnot into a bit of a routine on the all liquid diet at the moment. And yeah, hopefully Kusaka when the swelling has gone down, thankfully, which is. Big bonuses, and I could leave the house for a coffee or whatever, but yes, it's it's going good so far in terms of targets going back. And I know there's those European games in Atlanta, so that's certainly a target.

[00:02:50]

But obviously, you review meeting the search and then reviewing my team each week and to make sure things are progressing, then kind of, you know, going to that sort of basis as well. So I know Landstar himself or Lance around that because they feel I'll be able to play for that. It's kind of certainly the target of my. Looking back on those five to six nations games, Gary obviously was unfortunately caught short for you, but a good result against Italy, but disappointment in Paris against France.

[00:03:20]

But to be fair, it did look like Ireland were looking to redevelop their game and add a few strings that are. So it's not something that was targeted by you guys as a group going to the window initially.

[00:03:30]

And yeah, I think so. There was in terms of attack and style, and there's definitely intention there as well as defensive strategies to to kind of maybe around with it more. So obviously, things went a bit better against Italy than it did in Paris. And but yeah, I think the group is also saying there is a lot guy within the group that weren't necessarily there last year or the year before. And so all are hungry to be successful with Ireland.

[00:04:02]

And and then the new coaching teams as well are equally as hungry to to be successful. So I think that kind of thing and how guys are playing and training and and I'm sure you guys have seen it when speaking to them. So the motivation is definitely there. And I know the guys will be disappointed when and where we finished with in terms of coming in the Six Nations. But it's a starting point and something that will hopefully learn valuable lessons from to kick on and build going into the nation's top down and then further afield after.

[00:04:36]

So and I think everyone's excited all be got over the disappointment last week and not Opelousas motivated and excited to give this Friday a crack.

[00:04:47]

And looking ahead to the United Nations this weekend, Gary, what target was set free at the beginning of this this window? I'm assuming he he sat down and set targets for each tournament. You know, you wanted to win the Six Nations. But in terms of the Automations championship, you know, is the goal to win that new tournament or is the goal more to bring guys through and work on your all your kind of overall game plan going forward and.

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Again, I don't think from the same perspective, the coaches give you a better answer from a plane perspective, you've got to. Do everything you can to stick your hand up, to get on the pitch and then add as much value as possible to go and win and that kind of a. Unless I'm missing something obvious, but that's kind of the way it goes. Obviously there's the whole competition and you want to finish in four weeks time having to win.

[00:05:40]

All our games are going to want to. That's the ultimate goal. But then you've got to pair that, in fact, week by week. And and certainly after last weekend on our lives, they fired up to to kind of right the wrongs and hopefully learn from some of the mistakes over there and get them right this time around again. That's what I think of a tougher second. There are tougher Wale's team than we saw in the last game in our situation.

[00:06:03]

So. And. Yeah, I just think there's. What you said in terms of looking at the bigger picture, I don't know, as a player, you're to be trying to do whatever you can to win and and within the systems and structures, as well as the sort of freedom to express yourself as well and to do so. So, yeah, I don't know if that answers your question or not.

[00:06:29]

No, no, no. I get you get you get you just a final one then I suppose on your own career progression. I'm looking back in 2017. A lot of people thought you were unlucky to not make the cut for the Lions. You know, unfortunately, you missed out and, you know, you were one of those guys who was very, very close to being selected, even gotten himself, said it.

[00:06:47]

But is that something you're looking to rectify in 2021 and under kind of two ways of looking at it? Obviously, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a major ambition to to be involved in something like lions. I'm living a dream from what I would have been a kid watching them. And but but I can imagine and I'm almost certain that the same dream every rugby player, every professional rugby player has. So, I mean, certainly no different in that regard.

[00:07:13]

But in terms of my focus and energy and attention would all be on the media and albeit on engineers who what kind of changes the pictures of my immediate goal from what you ultimately want to evolve and grow as best you can day by day, week by week, and when the weekend or Monday night to sit no for some glass and enter and win and put the best version of yourself out there as possible. And then after the game, it's very rare to attack the next week and be better by the end of the next week and hopefully be better that we can learn from that game.

[00:07:50]

So I think I certainly obviously have ambitions like like everyone. What about 100 percent of my attention and focus would be on the on the immediate. And how can I can I get better now? How can I add value to Lancer Island now and kind of, you know, contribute to winning now and then everything that I don't want in my control or in the future. But look after itself if I focus on the immediate. And so, yeah, that's kind of my take on it.

[00:08:20]

I look at the best of luck with the recovery. And thanks again for talking to me. Thank you.

[00:08:25]

Adam Smith again. Watson, to name Williams, could step. Maybe not Lynn Williams looking all around. Where's that support now? Come from Jordan Davis, The Daily Show, those whales and Sergeant Davis inside and out is going to be finished and is finished. All right, so, Jamie, what's the crack? Welcome back, Sean. Welcome to the show and congratulations on the new book. Thanks for having me. No worries, we'll get right into it.

[00:09:16]

All right. What have you got? That's good in a book about this fella.

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What have I got, Jamie? Jeez, I don't know if I don't I don't know if I told any stories. And, Jamie, to be fair, I don't think there was many to tell. But he's mentioned he's 19 a few times in our life. But the reason reason China and tells me is because I have plenty, plenty on him. And it's incredibly and have to be factual to be told in the book.

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Yeah. How does that experience fruition?

[00:09:50]

Spilling the beans on people and I hope didn't spill any beans and anyone really was. No, it's been good. It's been an interesting experience to know and it worked.

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Jerry Thornlie was pulling his hair out. Jerry lives, not his hair, his integrity and matu over last couple of years, like, well, when he stayed with me for a few nights and stuff, he was he was grindy.

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He got a he got a feel of what I was really like.

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So and I was that was it was it was great.

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Throughout our process of fairness, he came over here and he came over here to London for three nights and. He said he was down to our last and met with family and friends and chat to them on his own, and that was good, was God.

[00:10:35]

It was like a like a psychology session afterwards after it was finished and done and dusted.

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So it was pretty good luck getting into your head. How is was going to go on television? Obviously, like things didn't exactly go according to plan because you went over to injury and then by the time you got onto the pitch, then enter Colvert.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was, I was mad to be fair. It was because I was I was meant to be back the week before that and they just they just said, right, we give you one more week, we'll be on the field and go back for that state again. And it was delighted. And we had a week off the following week and I had to actually go home for a funeral. And I went home and while I was at home, then they said the country is going into lockdown.

[00:11:20]

So stay home, stay where you are, don't bother coming back. And yes, I was just unfortunate timing, but I came back then after lockdown and a little bit of a hammie issue and played the first game with us and trying to cordon Sprint at full pace and just wasn't it wasn't worth risking it for the rest of the season. We're not the player for a lot of the younger guys hadn't got any game time in the prem, so get them all around and ready to rock now in two weeks time and everybody's good.

[00:11:49]

Now you're ready to play and back. And opponent of S.A.C..

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What we thought we we were to show shiny. Tell me, just like obviously I would have loved actually played abroad, particularly like after finishing line. So let's say, you know, what's the main difference is for people. Give them a sense of coming from the Irish system to where to the UK where the club dominate. And it's a bit more they say it's a grind. They say it's a tougher league and all that sort of stuff. C'mon, tell us what you think.

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Yeah, I do think it is. And I do think it is a bit of a grind. I think physically the teams over here are bigger and I think they wouldn't put an emphasis on fitness like we had in Leinster. That's one thing. And it definitely is kind of like a monopoly on every week as well. AM and. The level of the level of detail, I suppose, and stuff that we had wouldn't be wouldn't be in the clubs over here is much to kind of shoot the breeze a little bit more in certain clubs.

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But we're trying to develop something now. And the biggest factor I feel over here is that you have so many people from all around the world. So you look at London Irish or you look at them even like a sail or a pass or all these people have so many different people from all around or not from back, like we're all from Leinster, for instance. So it's very hard. It's very hard to manage different personalities from all the different places all over the world, Fiji, we Fijians, Australians, Kiwis, Irish, English.

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And so we have all these different opinions on how to play and the way the game should be played, et cetera, and marrying all them together. So I think that's the biggest difference from year to now.

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Must be it must be a bit of an advantage as well. It has always been curious about it because. Granted, and that's where Decky in the coaching staff has commanded. All right, this is what we're actually going to do, but it must have a great diversity of thought when it comes to ways and styles and ideas.

[00:14:02]

But the underlying professionalism of the clubs over there versus the clubs here in terms of how the players look after themselves.

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Can you speak to anything there or like are they good?

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Just in a different way?

[00:14:17]

Um, yeah. There's definitely a difference there, too, because. Most clubs over here have nutritionists and I suppose the resources that we have back home, but some clubs don't have that, so it's not there's not a big emphasis on it. And for us, we've taken a step in the right direction that where we've come in our food, that we get cooked, etc. The boys are really good in the kitchen now. And, you know, I brought it to another level and trying to get better and better the whole time and as is the whole setup.

[00:14:50]

But it's it's it's it's just different over here. It's a different philosophy in different clubs. And you learn an awful lot about what you perceive to be the norm for you. You learn to change and adapt pretty quickly to a different set up and and what's actually needed of you in here, like I have to you to sit back and kind of take stock of everything and have different conversations with people and not just think that one way is the right way.

[00:15:17]

How quickly, how quickly before your thumping enhancement, honestly, I hadn't I hadn't throw a punch and, you know, go ahead and say no, I'm trying to keep that. I'm trying to just explain to people and different aspects of it.

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And I didn't do that type of thing because I'm laughing, Jason, because, like, you got to understand, like, I think one of the lot.

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Wow. God, I'm trying to remember, I only ever really had one post picture.

[00:15:51]

And you were just annoyed at me for slowing a rock down or something. Yeah.

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But like it was I would say it was it was a weekly shiny, definitely bi weekly inlands there anyway wasn't bi weekly all moving it around.

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Big, big, big events.

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I'm only 30.

[00:16:10]

That brings me on actually to a good one, something we've been talking about the last couple of weeks, Jamie. Right. And I remember interviewing drink or last year, never asked him about there being a lack of a dog in the current Irish team. And he said, that's why I always love playing a China brain.

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So I wasn't like the old fashioned dog that, you know, breaks the rules as opposed to bend the rules. But we we said it last week. And you were saying you thought the same Bochan, which if you look at the current Irish team, that's something we're missing. Like, you know, as I said, like a dog isn't someone necessarily that breaks the rules. A dog or someone that plays with tenacity, plays with ferocity in every game.

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And it kind of seems like there isn't too many players in the current set up that are like that. Yeah, it's a tricky one, I think the likes of James Ryan and stuff like I think he's second in an impact hits in the six nations that are targeted. Maybe so like he's been fighting himself for both and he hasn't really taken a backward step and he's still grown into the into set up. And I think probably the nearest thing we have to to that type of person that you're talking about was Donlevy AM.

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And he's just coming back, obviously, from from the bad injuries that has Patrick. Twenty five minute shifts now and looking forward to seeing what he's had to bring. But it's certainly something I think that we are. Mason at times, and definitely big games like someone like Ian Henderson, for instance, you know, is is a massive physical player and we need him. We need the likes of him, like Basnet, to hold him, like with his physicality and with the likes of James Ryan.

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And that's back and flying into the back of the Amboise. So, you know, I talk about a little bit of madness. Jamie would have heard this before with a little bit of madness in Irish people. And it we need to bring that out all the time. And those big, big games that were you know, they forget about the details side of the game and stuff. And you just you just be as physical illness and as nasty as you can.

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Would you think, Sean, it's fair to say that, like, it's kind of complain. You complain players styles, OK, like take the back row, you can blend the different types of players in a black background. But in terms of that that madness, you do need you need balance in characters as well. But there just doesn't seem to be a whole lot on the balance. Just seems to me to and I'm not going to say passive or nice because they're not passive and I'm sure they're nice off the field, but there's not too many guys who.

[00:18:41]

You know. It's like, you know what I mean? You didn't have to do a lot to poke to bear the week of an international let's say if you're if you're a plane or something like that, you know, I just don't know what I'm talking to my head is is it because I like them because they're younger?

[00:18:59]

They've actually had a lot of success very early on and they haven't had to. Go through that, the low, the low, low points, and to be called ladyboys, for example, by past players and stuff like that to you realize it or maybe maybe just the mental side of the game has has moved on.

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I just haven't quite figured that part out. What's your take on?

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Yeah, I think there's a bit of both. And I think I think you both your points are valid. I think there is a bit of the fact that they come into a set and it's successful and it's very, very disciplined when they've come in and it's borderline. Right. You do not do anything out of this box in terms of discipline, et cetera, and are to be repercussions where like sometimes regardless of, you know, the week or whatever, sometimes you need to poke a bear or sometimes someone needs to be woken up and that has to be done in whatever way possible to get the right result at the weekend.

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And I don't know if it's you know, I just think I think the current squad are to have to have it at times. But it's about all the time having that same ruthless streak and that bit of madness. And look at Jason, probably a little a for questions here, but in terms of in terms of you looking in the right and looking at looking from abroad in OK.

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And here the narrative that goes on in the change room in England. And and I was I was working with BBC for the game in Paris for Ireland and.

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Egomania of a lot of time for him, you know, he was on he was on a lot of lads were like they see Ireland taking a step, are actually taking steps backwards in terms of going up against the physical sides and not evolving their game. What's the narrative you're hearing? And then separated out? What's what's kind of your two cents on it, you know, because you're kind of watching as a fine.

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You know, there are if you will never say it as an official policy where they won't pick you from abroad and you'll never see last week about it.

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But the question was asked, oh, they say, you know, doesn't matter. We're not picking Blair. Yeah. All right.

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To put it, what do you what do you think what are you hearing in those change room scenarios? And just what's your two cents on the lads right now?

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Yeah, it's very similar. In fairness, I think, you know, the English boys over here in Glasgow I talk to, they're kind of just say it as if to beat them up physically and in order to kind of tone had to didn't have a plan B and that's I suppose that's where I look back now.

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And I look at the even England game leading into 2019, and that World Cup is just beat us up. And then, you know, obviously the World Cup didn't go according to plan. But I think that's one of the things, is that hopefully there's a line drawn in the sand in terms of the way we played and at that stage because we probably didn't evolve enough. And and the way they're going to try and play within the next period of time, like they've only had two games under and they really to put steppingstones in place to to go to a different place and play a different style.

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So we might see consider for another another bit.

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But I think they've showed a few glimpses of they've gone away from probably the structured element of the rugby. Exactly. Planned out. And that's the exciting part, because I do think the players I don't think we have players that can play a lot more. And and it's just about evolving that skill set and bring them back, let's say, the offloading game and those bits and pieces that were kind of never there for a period of time because we were weren't doing that until I was told not to do.

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Oh, yeah.

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Because you don't want to lose our physicality then as well. That's the thing. It's a real fine balancing act because for Ireland, we're always a physical team, especially when you when you were involved. But that didn't part of their asses off and didn't spread the ball. Why he didn't play. I didn't look for adventure. Now we're trying to bring all these extra tools and tricks embedded, might be losing the physicality and you know, your side effect, your ball forward you up across if you don't win this game, if not win the ball up front.

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And it's no use having all these tricks because you're not going to win. We score.

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If you look if you look at our six nation stats are like the majority. It's something like 70, 80 percent. I need to put up the stats in front of me of our tries come from setpiece.

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Yeah, but we can win a game if you don't get dominance in the pack.

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Like, you know that like I mean, you we're so we're so dependent, we're so dependent on on that game, on that type of game. We to on point. It's good to see us. Yeah. Trying to evolve away away from it and now coming away from that for a little bit. And Jason, you'll have you'll probably bring us back. So Larry, tell me more about the book. What was the thing that worried you the most about talking about in the book?

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Orange Millivolts.

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And to be fair, nothing really worried me. That was in the book because I knew it was all going to be exactly the way it was, but. The one thing I was apprehensive about was actually my parents, to be honest, and all this, all the stuff, all the stuff about my family growing up and things, that was probably I was probably a bit worried about how they reacted when the first when I first told them about it and I said, look, I'm going to put it in the book.

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And this has been upsetting for a man. To be honest, I haven't read any of this stuff. Oh, butter and butter. And he just got on with life, as he always does. But, you know, Mom was pretty upset when she kind of read it spreads for the first time and stuff. And you're just reassuring or, you know, she's still the greatest moment. And I wouldn't change anything about her life.

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And that was probably the only thing in it that was very worrying. The rest of it exposes is bits and pieces that, you know, I messed up on. And, you know, I was as honest as I as I am and all those bits and pieces and and I wasn't really worried about him that was attached to what happened.

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If you're any favorite examples or any kind of favorite things you kind of recall, I just kind of to give people an idea of, OK, I want to go like give me a good example or a good story.

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You can think of what actually, you know what we should. I also want to know what the wager is you've done with Rob on on who sells the most and what's the penalty on the one who sells the least good ones.

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Have more name. I leave it. So there's there's a few there's a few stories that like I think one of them's one of the kind of strange stories. This is the guy jumping into the river. And we were all having to swim about one day. And this car just was there with our younger brother and she just jumped in fully clothed. And I didn't even see her this time because I was in the water. Well, she's end up having to rescue her.

[00:26:08]

And just by pure luck, I had to hold you under the water and couldn't swim or anything. So I pulled her out of the bank and I was in complete shock at this stage. And she got a few splutters and then coughed up a bit of water. And I still I said nothing because I didn't know what was happening. I was like I was just in a bit of shock. And she just ran up this bank that we used to come down the Ghost River and into a character elevator.

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Never said thanks for anything. And one of my best friends, James Whitney and his brother Derek, they're on top of the bridge at the time. And they were just to actually come down, obviously, while I was trying to find her in the water. But that's one of the strangest ones. And then I suppose the funny story is probably the one in the and in the chipper. And the after the after I captained Scotland in the in the World Cup, warm again and the dirty dancing song came on and I lifted up a fan of my head as the for the song coming down.

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That was probably that was probably one of the funniest ones.

[00:27:13]

And you're a great dancer in fairness to Ashanti. Thank you. You're a great dancer. It's it's been a long battle between you and Luke Fitzgerald of who has been the better dancer. And I know my wife would definitely prefer to dance with you on the dance, sort of low key, but I don't know, that's down to dancing or not. But we'll go with dancing anyway.

[00:27:35]

I'm definitely better at wedding dance than nookie. Look, he's probably more of a freestyler than I am, but if you want to drive or a loss or something, I'm definitely better looking than a coordinated shot.

[00:27:48]

Can I ask you about that? Because when we were talking about last week, Jamie, kind of like your into rugby, into Lenzer, an entire area wasn't traditional. So I like that probably maybe that's something that kind of put that bit of dog in on the fact that you didn't come from one of the old private D4 schools as they asked you to go to the hard way. And not many of you made that we're not. Maybe you might be like yourself, talk far along and stuff like that made you a kind of the player you are today, like having to come to that.

[00:28:15]

And you probably you obviously have to find a little bit harder than. Well, no, it definitely it definitely gave me a bit more of a chip on my shoulder, 100 percent, especially in the earlier days when. You know, as I say, I even say in the book, like I think people at home, even though with me and, you know, I really had really had a point to prove and or in the early years.

[00:28:40]

But it is it is a different way of coming true. And it is more difficult not you know, the schools nowadays are produced an absolute quality in their droves to actually produce and then start producing players for the problems that come into my eyes. And so it's their turn them out. But they're still Lenzer have definitely branched out and are looking more at those youth players, put more into youth. There's put more into youth coaches. They have done a good job in terms of actually trying to find a bit more talent.

[00:29:14]

But I don't think the gap is going to close that much on the on the schools just because the pure volume of players and the quality that schools have coming through. And there's also the amount of time those players, the school's coaches get with the players versus the club, you get them twice a week playing Sunday in the schools. It's every day you're getting these guys.

[00:29:38]

And it's something that they've they. They've ID that they're trying to not write a kid off when they come out of, like, traduce system to come out of school at 18, 19, they understand that maybe they need another two years of development really and before they can make a call on that person.

[00:29:57]

But the funny thing, Jason, that I think you've touched on and in your book, Shawn, if I'm right about how you had to do your time almost in the academy, then like you were, it wasn't like they do in the soccer apprenticeship, but it wasn't far off in your time because you were you were hustling like come on sweeping floors and doing everything around the change.

[00:30:18]

You can you can tell us a bit more about that. Yeah.

[00:30:21]

Yeah. When I first went up, I suppose financially we wouldn't have been in a in a great place at home. So between the academy wage we were getting at the time, which I think is three hundred and twenty euros a month, and the scholarship you get off of city, which is similar I think.

[00:30:40]

And you know, I was trying to I was going to Macu at the time when I first went in there and I was like, Dave, any work around the place doesn't matter what it is. I cut grass or trim hedges or wash floors. I'll do whatever it is. So he kind of got me and he kind of got me a few gigs with the boy. The senior squad in charge of filling the icepacks, first and foremost, used to keep the boots is clean their boots after they leave in the changed room and in the l'avenir.

[00:31:11]

And then I used to tidy the gym, the shades in Balgo as well. So it was it just keep me taking over. And I used to be able to get another check in order to have an extra change. I had come true to that states, which I was. That was funny because I used to watch like I used to watch like Clay and stuff. He'd be doing extraordinary stuff after training the whole tournament. And a few of those boys, like even in the summers when when we were training, he'd be showing up early to do some stuff.

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So it was good to see some of those boys are doing early on.

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Let's pretend I've got to get on to a lot of questions between my Twitter and stuff. No, I didn't have I purposely picked ones that are OK because I'm not asking myself a block for the rest of my life long enough. Now I know I got to go once. All right.

[00:32:10]

So the toughest Barcarolle each of you have ever come up against because we had this thing last week. And in fairness, most guys consider yourself two thirds of the best Irish background we've ever produced alongside his face. So we give you that one. Right. But who is the toughest? Syracuse, Eljahmi, the toughest backo you've come up against. Could be Club Country. Does it matter or could be Loynes?

[00:32:30]

Whatever are we talking about? Like an individual tree. Like a tree. Top three or so. I ended up here. The same team. Yeah. I like on a pitch like OK, that was it off his back like.

[00:32:38]

Oh well one of the most annoying ones was Whale was the Whale 2011 World Cup one. They just chopped the shit out of myself Chani and fast like that sort of child title was invented. Everything gets weird right now baby.

[00:32:54]

It's always lady at Wal-Mart and someone else and. And it Warburton and. Toby would have been volatile to be volatile. Yeah, yeah, and Toby was just kind of get going then as well and they were pretty good. And I don't know, Sean, if you played against them with the background, I think I remember playing against Kyncl MCCA and, um, I think Reed was there, but then I think I played when they had someone else.

[00:33:24]

I think they had an.

[00:33:28]

I play against Jerry as when he was in the all black team as a. You would have over and when you got sent off. Yeah, it was fun. Thanks, Larry, for that.

[00:33:44]

They for me anyway. I think they would be when you say that to me, that that's what. That's what pops out and then, like just just single, like the hardest person, I always think does it. I was probably one of the best because you just you saw him. You didn't think he was that big. But like for me anyway, it was like running into a brick wall and like being hit by a brick wall every single time.

[00:34:06]

And it just kept coming. And you could rip the head off like you could take the head off of the rock and he'd be at the next one. And he smiled at you and. So, yeah, that that's kind of who pops up to remind you, you know, I'd probably I probably definitely that that 2011 Wale's game was was an eye opener for us. But I probably go in New Zealand in 2012 when we got spanked 16 and.

[00:34:40]

McCall, Reed, and I think it could have been the last game, Larry, and that was the yeah, it was the last game.

[00:34:51]

Yeah, yeah, I think it was McCall Reed. And I think actually Sankin made his debut that night in the second half. But it was it was dreadful. And I just remember I remember said before the game about my I was like, just give this that Heleno tonight and just don't worry about your game. Just go around and bastad as bad as you can. And I remember looking at him after the game and he was destroyed, his head was destroyed, everything was destroyed.

[00:35:21]

And he made a career I think just on 80 minutes. And I think he ran over me. I actually think he did sit me down. But I was like, this fella is the most relentless and ruthless person I've ever come across. And so that was that's one of them.

[00:35:35]

And then the French Barcarolle of two Sittar on air and.

[00:35:41]

Oh, yeah, yeah. And I think it was actually Shabad at the time. Yeah. That was a very, very tough backroad up against because you had Bonnier and duces fire going around. Absolutely. Meltem people. And then you had Survivor who was running over people who just. Yeah. So that's a good one. Actually I always forget about. Find out how good he was.

[00:36:04]

He's very, very tough player, not overly heavy or anything, but incredibly fit and hard and. Yeah. So that might have probably interesting.

[00:36:13]

I never noticed. McColgan transactions are finally starting to get a good back like they're actually watch.

[00:36:19]

I'm going to say watch out for them for twenty, twenty three seven in France and they've got a serious team, they're a young team, they finally have a nine and ten for the first time ever and probably one of the best nines in the world. And then antifascism isn't half bad either, like in fairness to him.

[00:36:34]

That's a good question for the best non Irish rugby ground you've ever played in our country.

[00:36:43]

And Sean, you go first, I go, I got Millennium set, do it with the roof closed, World Cup 2015 against France was absolutely electrifying at some stadium.

[00:36:58]

Varanus Iljimae. For me, I let him stay close is it's it's hard to be, but I feel strange. I like really old stadiums as well and just to others that I'll always love the audience. Another favorite is I don't know, Sean, if you ever got a chance to play in College Park in Trinity now or actually.

[00:37:22]

Sorry, I did. I did. I played there once and won, actually.

[00:37:27]

Oh yeah.

[00:37:29]

That I wasn't playing against, you know, but actually that's just my points. But at the. What jumps out to me is Australia 2011 against in Eden Park and when? Even it was in New Zealand, and I swear to God, there was maybe five Australian people in the crowd, all the Kiwis were wearing Irish jerseys. It was like we were playing at home. And the only other one that stands out is playing against South Africa in Pretoria was was with the Lions was amazing because it's a it's one of those it's one of those stadiums real old and it goes right.

[00:38:14]

Like the stage goes right up on side of the field and it's like a coliseum and they're on top of you. And it's real like. Heavy set African presence, and it was near boiling point a couple of times. What's the atmosphere like actually to plan? This is my question and it's a question for me, because I remember while you went over there like as a fan and I was like, this is class because it's so different. It's like it's all unique, but like playing what's the Loynes crowd like?

[00:38:41]

Because they're all lunatics who are from four different countries are all absolutely pissed. So it must be class to play. And if it's like when all these fans just it's it's unbelievable.

[00:38:50]

When the chant gets going, that's when you're ready. That's when you're ready.

[00:38:55]

And that's that's that's when it gives the energy and excitement. But other than that, it's just like an ordinary international. That's just a great pose.

[00:39:05]

An atmosphere around everyone is like, I'll give you I'll give you my when we were where was lines online. And we were saying in the Suncorp Hotel and you came out of the team room that he was in the main reception area of the hotel where all the rooms look down on and everyone comes through it. And as you came out of Timothy McVeigh down to the bus, there was it felt like thousands of supporters all around, but just a big sea of red.

[00:39:32]

But that wasn't the unusual part, because you get that kind of turnout with obviously when you're playing with Irelands and stuff. But the main thing was here in. English accent, Scottish accent, Welsh accents kind of know your name and kind of big in Europe and you kind of wish you all the best when it's usually the other way.

[00:39:52]

Obviously, when you hear those accents, plain and not, that's for me. Like I was like, oh, this is this is what it's all about. Like it's just the whole collective coming together. Like it was it was pretty powerful.

[00:40:05]

I remember being behind the goals for the second test and I was a 17 year old fyles kicking over the past. I'm like, what am I doing here? Cheer an old fashioned kicking over the ball. Well, you just get lost in it, like, because you don't care if it's NetSol. You give a shit about like it's mad, like it's such a it's such a unique concept. So you're going to get better. So you're going to go the 2009 Nineteen TORC on your set off.

[00:40:25]

I was talking to a guy, I was talking to Gatland recently and he said, Hey guys, I watch the cricket. If he's out in the national team, if they're like guys that are kind of like the English guys and stuff that aren't getting and getting in and going out on foreign countries and can be selected, he was like, oh, I don't care. So I'm picking the best players. Yeah, yeah. Salivation, I go to you like.

[00:40:45]

It is, yeah, I'd be lying if I said it wasn't, and I just need to I need to play it week in week out here with London Irish and then see where I am seeking to get back to the good farm and get it on again and be on my hands, then push if I can get back to anywhere near my best and finish and stay fresh for the year. I'm it's definitely on the radar for me personally.

[00:41:08]

You definitely be up there on a percentage points if I got anything to say goodbye. Actually, it's an interesting one. A tough question as well. Anything either of you wish went differently in your careers? We'll go with Jamie first this time, so 2011 game against. You're upset that.

[00:41:28]

If we said watch The Blind Side and watch Mike Phillips told Michelago go twice.

[00:41:32]

We said attacking 10 times and. Yeah, that's. That's a game that's I think we could have. We could have broken the ceiling, the glass ceiling that's there. I'd say for me would have been I would have been getting cited after the 2015 French camp. You didn't help that? Did you know, I that's that's probably the biggest, biggest disappointment of my career. That's that's the weakness that Argentina. Because I mean, the Mostashari, though, it wasn't what you did, I couldn't believe I couldn't believe the way he framed it there, particularly after what he had done to me and how I kind of gave you.

[00:42:21]

All right. He apologized. I'll take him on his word and I won't say anything bad in my kind of report. But he absolutely hung you.

[00:42:31]

Yeah, well, that whole every single piece of that site is in the book. Word for word. I we I actually recorded that whole site. And so that's that's quite an interesting part in the book actually, because of course, true from the very minute I'm saying to the very end of it and indeed in a lot of detail. And and yeah, that was it was hellish for me. But I don't want I don't I had to suffer the consequences and push to follow on that day when I when the boys lost to Argentina and we were missing five.

[00:43:05]

Yeah. Five probably key players. If we want to go there, I still like to think one of us would have got us over the line because we were we were a whisker away and we just didn't start well enough, but we came back at them. But it's probably a big regret of mine.

[00:43:20]

One hundred percent today because there were senior parents. I remember it was like it was yourself. It was a kind of sex piece. I never forget how we came off.

[00:43:29]

Yeah. Tommy came off in about two minutes into the games on Jared's hand as well. Yeah, Jared is gone. I'll never forget it because we knew all the lads were injured. And I remember being on Twitter trying to follow the case and like the whole country are like, OK, we might have Sean O'Brien and your here and went on for so long. It took hours. And everyone just er retweeting their their feedback on the story, people putting out pictures of guys praying outside the Vatican, going to hear Sean O'Brien's result was absolutely gorgeous.

[00:44:00]

I got to ask you what actually Sean, West Virginia even discussing this a good few weeks about the background stuff, seven for Ireland going forward. So like looking towards France. Twenty twenty three countries coming in there recently. Obviously, flair is a freak who tackles everything and is a serious player but missed out in the autumn internationals. And you got leave. You come back in like if you're like, who's that? Who's the guy who is going to Holland Jersey and should be the deciding seven over next year.

[00:44:26]

And Dennis Dennis is the man for me and going forward into seven Jersey, just because he, like they all have a lot of specialist things, but he has he has a few strings to his bow. He can he can do he can do it all in terms of being a baker. And he has that bit of. It doggedness in him just a little bit more than the rest of the boys chinky can come back from that injury. I can because, you know, you went through a lot of big injuries yourself, but you always managed to get back.

[00:44:59]

Is a tough luck, especially with a serious one, like, you know. I think it can.

[00:45:03]

I think I was just looking back at some of the highlights that came yesterday, and he got over he got over a ball just near the end. Didn't Raclette didn't didn't win it. You know, it's good to see him having to contract it over and to try and hang on to that position, especially with what he's gone through. So I think he will like it's just I think I think they're doing an extremely good job with him, just drip feeding them minutes.

[00:45:29]

And the more games he gets and the more concerned he gets, he'll get back to himself, not out of one point one.

[00:45:36]

All that kind of go with the two. He goes back and what we were talking at the start and into someone who came in very late because we had this talk. It would be good now because you're on the pot. Is this whole thing about London Irish potentially becoming a fifth province now, not a fifth province, and then coming over to, you know, being more connected and link Ireland Irish?

[00:45:55]

It's all you could say was that you went over last year. What if there was an agreement there? Right. And you say essentially contracted with Ireland and takeover, was that 10 or 20 percent of your salary? You go over to London, Irish, you're still eligible for Ireland. You can go over, as you said, mix of all the new players, experience a different league, but Ireland has control of you can say, OK, you can only play these games and you ask people, is that something that could probably benefit us, wouldn't it?

[00:46:20]

Can I actually add to that as well? Just what do you think, Charlie, would be a good idea for development players to to have an operation like that, to go to a London Irish or what we touched on before? Jason, if the four South African teams or any team in the pro 14, if you played with them, you're eligible for Ireland, then just find another route for people to develop it.

[00:46:40]

Yeah, I think I think that's probably the latter. That is probably the way forward. I think you look at some of the younger guys who have let's just say Brian Byrne, for instance, who is like who's at Leinster now in Bristol.

[00:46:55]

And like for him, for instance, he probably thinks that door short unless he goes back to Ireland. But if he was if he was playing regular rugby week in, week out and he was performing really well, I'm just taking him as an example now or any young fella, you know, what should be a way for them to be still in the system while I was in the country and to get games and to get more experience and then and then be able to to be able to be selected if if they're well enough.

[00:47:25]

And and the way we're turning out all these younger guys diminish and troller and like it something has to give somewhere. So we have to come up with some kind of solution to to keep these guys in the system look like Callum Sheedy is in the England squad, for instance, but he's actually Irish qualified. Yeah, it seems like the obvious option, doesn't it, because it's a bit of a history there. I mean, it seems like if they did an agreement, they are linked up and said with the developers, especially with Lenzer, like you saw again there, the weekend, Acharn and Parisotto does not know.

[00:47:58]

And I think like anyone who's an expert on their age, like him, for instance. Yeah. And should be should be put in if they if they can't make it in a provincial team to to maybe have the option of relying too much on the noirish that they're still in connection with their with their underage underage teams and players to play with under 19, 20, etc. at national level. And then if there is to step, if they're paying well enough to still be selected.

[00:48:28]

Yeah, it's like the reverse of what we did a few years back where we didn't have enough players in Ireland. We had that IQ program and guys like Richard Carramar, minutes of coming in and benefit don't do it the other way around. Too many players.

[00:48:39]

And we just actually talk about this for a second.

[00:48:41]

I was just going to say how he is being unbelievable on the last few weeks and he's not still not in the squad. Like, I don't know what that guy has to do to get to to get to get a go at international level, because it's ridiculous.

[00:48:59]

All of them, not your part of it, made him Captain USCIRF, didn't he look for a while, actually seem to have big plans for him, but he just never seemed to take off. Yeah, he's been extremely lucky with a bit of a bit of injury as well before before now, but he's I was watching that cancer and I was just like like and he talk about you talk about physical players and and triathlete leading the way. And in terms of like he's he's a man and he's like he is he's he's he's manhandling people.

[00:49:30]

And, you know, if they want if they want, someone is going to get his guests talking to people know he's he's he's one. You wanted to change his procedure. You know, he's lost a couple of kilos and he checked out as well, he looks fresher, it does look a bit more psycho, but it's like losing a couple of those couple of kilos has definitely seemed to fit well with him, because that dynamic player that we would have seen Shaun way back when before he got a lot of injuries like that.

[00:49:57]

That's what we're seeing right now, isn't it?

[00:49:59]

Yeah. Yeah, he's he's he's flying again. In fairness, I carry and well, he's he's hitting people hard. He's doing all he's got all the right things. So it's been interesting since he brought back in at some stage.

[00:50:10]

I got very good. Now I leave you off and go have your tea. You might not try. And best of luck to you live who you live with.

[00:50:17]

Michaľany living on my own. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:50:20]

I'm all alone, but I know honestly. Best of luck with the book and what your back. When's your first games are two weeks away from my daughter.

[00:50:29]

Two weeks now. Two weeks Australia can offer. You might go on the line for next year. And Jamie Lee boys, we will be taking time to take a selfie. Yeah, you better get selected by. I shall. All right, so, guys, that's it for this week's show. Hope you enjoyed it and chatty again next week. Stay safe.