This is Gavin Newsom, and this is Michael Savage. The hell are you doing here? What are we doing here, the two of us, of all people?

Well, we're supposedly political polar opposites, which we probably are. However, as I say on my TV show, you don't have to like my politics to like me. And a lot of people seem to like me but hate my politics. Some actually like me and my politics, which is the ideal.

I love it. We've known each other. I mean, full disclosure, so folks may not know this. We've known each other over the course on and off for a couple of decades now, right? I remember you. I was joking with Trump the other day in the oval office. I said, You're calling me New Scum is not novel. That's disgusting. Savage had a version of that early on when I was mayor.

Any twosome news.

Thank you very much.

Should I tell that story?

No, you shouldn't It's all that story.

It's got your great father involved in it. Did he get involved in it? No. I was in a North Beach restaurant, which you remember the heyday of the North Beach restaurant? Come on. Your dad, may he rest in peace, Judge Newsom was there. I was introduced to him and I said, You were the Board of Supervisors chairman, and you were just introduced the gay marriage at resolution. I said, Judge, your son just made the biggest career error of his life. He's finished. And he said, I agree with you, Michael. Well, guess what? We were both wrong.

He did agree with you, by the way. He was always up. Come on, an old Irish Catholic, West Side of San Francisco. And by the way, I remember, you remember this back in the day. That's why you probably shook my hand back then. I ran as the conservative, right?

I don't remember, honestly. I don't know what you ran as. I know that the city was... Look, I came here in '74. I'm an immigrant to San Francisco. My father was an immigrant to America. I'm a first-generation American, so I have one foot in the old world, one foot in the new. So I still see a little bit of the immigrant and the native That stuff. But I'm new to the city. It was a great wide open city. You could do whatever the hell you wanted. Then what happened was it went off the rails because ultra tolerance led to, or as I put it, Governor Newsom, When anything goes, everything goes.

Got it. It'sit's a good line. It's a good line. My line, I tell my kids, I said, How you do anything is how you do everything. It's true. You got to focus on the detail, how you make your bed, and it's how you do everything.

You actually make them make their bed.

I make them make their bed. I make my bed, too, by the way, but I don't believe that. Sometimes my wife doesn't even believe it because they're a few days off. But let's talk about you've never taken any time away from the Bay Area. I mean, for all, you've been here since the '70s.

'74.

And you've '74, you went to Berkeley PhD in seven years.

I earned it in two years and seven months, which is a world record. No one knows about it. I came here with two master's degrees. I was blocked from a PhD in one of the master's degrees because the field was too advanced. I came here and I worked for an independent PhD, which was unheard of. There were only seven of them issued a year at the time. It was the toughest thing I ever did in my life. I was so proud to get a PhD from Berkeley because everyone said to me, That's your union card. You get that PhD, you're going to be hired as a professor. Unfortunately, hello, it kicked in. White males need not apply. I was rejected from every position I applied for. I was told point blank that we can't hire you because we have to fill quotas. They told it to me.

So they were very exciting. That's because I remember you wrote a poem in 1977, right? About white male.

You saw that?

You wrote a poem.

The Death of the White Male.

The death of the white...

In the '70s. How do you know that?

You were talking about that.

Someone gave you a background on me.

I've been tracking you. We've been cacing you for years and years.

Someone's watching me. Savage. I did. I wrote a hot book called The Death of the White Male, which no one knows about. It's a pamphlet. Trotsky or Lennon would understand that.

By the way, speaking of Trotsky and Lennon, you were hanging out with Alan Gainsberg? Yes. Lawrence Ferlingete. Yes. Quite literal, maybe. Yes. Lawrence, Port Laureate in San Francisco. Oh, yeah. Many moons later. You had some interesting moments back there in North Beach, back to North Beach. Yes.

Lawrence was a friend of the family. Lawrence and Janet and I. He flew out with Allen Gainsberg. Lawrence and Alan flew. They were on their way to the Adelaide Arts Festival in Australia, and we had known them from New York. We know Allen from New York, and I met Lawrence here, and I said, Why don't you stop at our house in Hawaii? I was renting a house, going to grad school there. They both stopped in. They spent a few days with us, and that was that. But Lawrence and I stayed on and on in the years, politically opposites again. But you don't have to hate someone who you don't agree with. That's why I'm here. That's why you invited me here.

I love that. But it is a remarkable journey for you. If I just wrote out your resume those early years, not only were you in San Francisco and in the Bay Area, getting a PhD, but it was the PhD in what? It was around nutrition. It was around ethnomedicine.

Ethnomedicinal ethnomedicine, which was an interdisciplinary PhD with epidemiology, human nutrition, and anthropology in in a combined hole, which was an interdisciplinary PhD, which in order to get into that program, you had to go through the heaviest screening program because a lot of people use bullshit to get into interdisciplinary and do nothing. I had to go through the toughest people at that university and explain why I wanted to combine those fields in a new field. It was a tough interview. I got the PhD block from it. I had written seven books at the time and still couldn't get a teaching job. I got very angry, Gavin. I'm an immigrant son. I want to be a professor. It's all I want to be. They're saying, because of your race, you can't be hired. It's crazy.

It was that in DelaBine. Was that the big shift then for you in terms of your politics? You were like, enough.

Was it Well, Gavin, I was a social worker in New York before I came here, teacher, social worker, and I was going into houses of people on welfare who were living better than I was. I was living at the time in a rental apartment. I had wooden furniture, crates. We had a mattress on the floor and orange crates for end tables. I go into the supervisor at the welfare office and I say to her, blah, blah, blah. She says, Well, start writing out checks. Mr. Smith gets $600 for an end table, $800 for two chairs, $900 for a bit. I said, Wait a minute, I don't have that. She said, Just keep writing the checks. And I said, Something's wrong with this system.

You weren't raised necessarily with a strong ideological bias. Oh, no. Your parents weren't necessarily your father, your mom. They weren't out there marching the streets for a Democrat or a Republican. It was none of that.

Nobody knew a Republican in my family or in my circles. My father was an immigrant, and he would walk the streets, and he would point things out to me and teach me what the world was about. But he would say, I said, Daddy, you a Democrat or Republican? He would say, You know, Michael, he said, All I know is things are better for me when Democrats are in office. Now, remember, he came through the Depression. He worked in the WPA. He got a job as a kid who had nothing, driving a car for a politician. I still don't know how he got it. Who did he know? He told me stories of driving some corrupt politician to Saratoga Springs. I don't even know the rest of those stories. To him, the government intervened in the Great Depression with the WPA, and it saved him.

It shaped his perspective.

But he didn't understand that after JFK, who I voted for, I love JFK. He was one of my heroes. I'll never forget how he influenced me. When I saw that picture of him and he said, Don't ask what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country. You know that that put steel in my spine? I wanted to go out of March and do something for my country. I love that. One good line can influence a person for a long time.

Yeah, this notion of responsibility, not just... It's the one piece that I think our party continues, we continue to miss. But we're going to get to that in a But I just want to talk about those moments that shaped you. I mean, again, sitting here talking about nutrition. You were working in a clinic in San Francisco. Yes. You're writing all these books. I mean, dare I say, and hear a bunch of them right here, one of what, by the way, you said Seven, but you've done 29 books published and several unpublished.

There's two novels in there set in San Francisco. People don't read novels. Abuse of Power and a Time for War. They're set in San Francisco in North Beach, in the North Beach restaurant and around there at the time of Lorenzo was alive.

Lorenzo Patroni, he's on North Beach restaurant.

He used to run-Past years ago. Old Italian, and all the Democrats would meet in that restaurant, remember, in the back room?

And the Closet of Republicans.

So they'd meet there, and one of them once said to him, he said, Michael, you know what they said to me? I said, what? They said to me, Are you a right winger? He said, No, I'm not a right winger. I'm a fascist. That's what Lorenzo said. May he rest in peace.

May he rest in He's, by the way. He survived as long as he did. He was usually three or four bottles at lunch in and then went all night.

Oh, poor man.

But he was a legend.

He was built like a bear. A bear. He was a bear, Old World There.

Different generation. So we were shaped so similarly. I was the kid in the corner with my father, with George Mosconi, the former mayor, Quentin Kopp, the former state center, then he become judge, all that. And that shaped my political beginnings and gave me a sense of what the whole political scene was about. And North Beach was really the neighborhood City Hall where real deals were done.

So, Gavin, we want to talk about, I'm sorry, the personal stuff and the health stuff. I know that. But if I don't ask some, can I read the bullet points?

It's unbelievable. You're bringing notes. I bring nothing. I got the questions.

Why are you bringing a question? I'm not as young as you.

Why are you bringing a question? Well, let's jump in. But I want to start. Let's start with this, and we'll go back and forth. But this whole frame of nutrition is really interesting because it's very contemporary now. You've got RFK Junior. You've got now a new Health and Human Service Secretary. Obviously, Trump embracing this notion of Maha, make America healthy again. By the way, I love that. I love that.

Look at you. You're not a fat guy.

No, but it's not even about body weight. It's about just health and wellness, all the stuff you've been preaching and practicing. You were the original... I'll say you were the original bunch of things, and we'll get to language borders the culture in a minute. Oh, wow. And Trump and Trumpism because you were... Trump was a Democrat. I'm aware of that. When you were practicing theseFull, I'm fully aware. But this whole Maha movement, you got to feel pretty good about that, or do you feel it's a little off base and not necessarily is it well established in the cornerstone of your more academic thinking?

Okay, so I was a big element of the alternative health movement in California from the time I got here. Herbal medicine, homeopathy, nutrition, wrote books on it. I knew all the leaders. I knew Linus Pauling, I knew Bob Cathcord, I knew Richard Cunyan. These were the geniuses in the field. Here's the problem with RFK Jr. He said, Johnny, come lately to the field. I like what he's doing. He doesn't have the nuance or the subtlety to understand a lot of it. Even when he was appointed, I was sending messages to Trump saying, You can't eliminate the entire Health and Human Services Department. There are some good scientists in the NIH. You can't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Slow down. All revolutionaries, as you know, left and right, want to start from the beginning. You can't do it. You can't fire every scientist. I try to tell them that, and I try to get on the good a ride of RFK Jr. Without any luck. Russ was skiing in Aspen a few weeks ago. You know who was on the chair next to him? Who? Rfk Jr. He said to him who he is, and he says, You know who my dad is?

And he says, Michael Savage. And he says, Wow, he's a great guy. But I've never talked Did you get to him?

Rfk all these years?

No, I still haven't gotten to him. Interesting.

Despite the fact you've been at this longer than he's been alive.

I would like to help as an advisor on the alternative medicine side of his revolutionary quest. And I also would like to offer you, Gavin, Newsom as the governor of this great state where I've been since '74. Don't you have a health task force, alternative medicine? Yeah, of course.

No, we're about wellness, about health care, not sick care. We've been focused on all the issues around ultra-processed food, free meals, nutritious meals, focusing on farm to fork, focusing on proximity to agriculture, focusing on small farms and regenerative farming, all the component parts and all this. A lot of it, of course, is weaponized politically. I did the Skittles ban a A couple of years ago, the same folks in the right were attacking the Skittles Band, which was about red dye. Now they're embracing and celebrating it.

Red dye number 4, I wrote about it in 1974 in a book called Bugs and the Peanut Butter. Is that right? It was a book for children about all the dangers in everyday foods. People thought I was crazy. I love it. But do you have a commission on alternative health, homeopathy, nutrition, herbal medicine?

We have not full. I mean, it's represented in health bodies, but it's not fully represented as the body.

This is what the state of California should be leading the in all these alternative, I think, modalities. You have tons of practitioners in those fields in this state.

Dollar a year. We may negotiate 50-cent. I'm so curious. Look, I joke about language-Borders, language, culture.

Borders, language, culture. Language, culture. My motto.

It's just indelible. I was listening to you as a supervisor, listening to you as mayor, not just because we ran into each other, not just because I knew your Russ, and love your wife, Janet. You're the most entertaining person in personality, period. Full stop and storyteller on the radio.

You were. I'm a good story. Well, I tell stories because they're part of life, and education is about telling stories. A good teacher tells a story doesn't just beat you up with facts. If I can tell a story about my life and it makes a political point, fine. So let me tell a political story, if I may. About five years ago, I had a heart attack here in Moraine County. So I'm Washington, Marine General. I have to wait online. It's filled with illegal aliens, and the girl at the desk makes me wait. I said, I'm dying. Do you understand? I call the car, he's waiting for me. She starts driving me through like hooks. I said, No. I walk into the ER room and they They looked me up and do their stuff. So income, two huge 250-pound Black bodyguards because they heard there was a troublemaker in the emergency room. Here's this little Jewish guy with wires and plugs in him. I said, Yeah, I'm the one who was I was in trouble out there. They left and they left. Why do I have to wait to get into an emergency room when I pay more taxes than any 10,000 of them do?

You know what? That's why we do preventative care. That's why we have a different approach because we have sick care in the emergency room that universal across this country. Well, I totally. Above access all across the country for it? Who's paying for it? You are at substantially higher prices on the back end for the emergency care.

See, this is where we disagree because you can't give first-world excellent medical care to everyone on the planet without going bankrupt.

No, I appreciate. But honestly, I mean this sincerely. What would you do to the person that was just hit by a car that was here for 15 years taking care of your elderly grandparents in an elder care facility? And they end up in the emergency room, you say, no, you're not going to get that care.

Of course, you're going to give them care. First of all, it's not only in your main, but it's available to them. But that's not what we're talking about. There are people coming over the border just for expensive surgeries, just for expensive medical care.

By the way, a few years ago, I'm I remember people going south of the border into Tijuana from San Diego because it was cheaper to get some quality care in Mexico.

But if you talk about border's language and culture, which you introduced, and I think it's very important. Everyone knows it's my mantra, why aren't you ask me?

By the way, when was it your mantra?

94.

Were people talking like that in the early 90s? They were starting to a little bit, right? Prop 187 in California.

You remember 209 and 187?

So there was a little of that, but you really coined that phrase.

Okay, so I created the Paul Revere Society in 94 here in California, which no longer exists. And the motto, I had to write a card up. What do we stand for? Borders language culture. Nobody truly understood it, but there's not a country on Earth that is not defined by its borders, unified by its language, and doesn't have a common culture. When you lose all of that, you lose the nation. I don't care what the nation is. It could be a small African nation, a small Caribbean nation. They're defined by their borders language and culture. How does that people understand? Let me just finish the border thing. Even China built the Great Wall of China to protect border. Why? Because the Mongols were invading China. So I'm a total believer in the sovereignty of a nation. I don't know how anyone can argue with that.

There are some that obviously do, but I'm not among them. By the way, California, we put down almost 394 National Guard since the week I first became governor to supplement and support Customs and Border Patrol at the border to address some of the issues of fentanyl and some of the border security concerns.

Do you agree with Trump then cracking down on the flood of illegals into the nation?

I think there's a way of doing it and approaching it. And I think we have a broader problem, which is immigration policy and asylum abuse. The asylum system is broken in the United States of America.

You have the power to do something about it in the state, don't you?

Well, not directly, Exactly. And we have no direct border, except for supplementing our support, which we, again, have been doing for years and years and years.

Here's a great statement that no one's going to expect from me, where I probably am to the left of you on something with immigration that people don't understand. I know of a person was here 20 years from Mexico. He's worked seven days a week. He's paid taxes. He can't become a citizen. That's wrong. I'm with you. Something's wrong with that.

That's why we talk about the border, which is critical.

Not even a traffic ticket. I appreciate That's not even a traffic ticket.

This is interesting. Just the last comprehensive survey in the state of California, and this is not a contemporary survey, needs to be updated, said that 67% of people that are here without documentation in California have been here for 10 plus years along the same lines. Are they paying taxes? And paying taxes.

But here's the secret part of it. That's the majority of folks. The worker pays taxes, but they have several dependents at home who don't or live on supplemental income from the state and the federal government. That is a problem.

And Wherein lies, yes, some of the dialect that you and I will have to have in terms of what's the appropriate level of support and how you deal with that reality. The federal failure to address the issue of immigration, immigration policy and border, we completely agree with. The question is, what's that pathway to address the example you just provided?

How do you do it? Gavin, I pay 16% in state taxes.

Then you need a better accountant because it's 13. 3%.

But there's a millionaire's tax on top of it. I'm 83 years old and I still work. Okay, I have another home in Florida. I don't live there. I prefer where I live. I've gotten used to the fog, to the seagulls, to the cormurans. I know all the birds of the Bay. I'm an avid I got used to watching the fog rolling over the Marine Hills. I watch it roll out in the afternoon. I love it. I've always said, you got the 10 zones, you got snow to the desert. It's a perfect geographical location for me, but there's a point at which I will leave this state, and that will be taxation without representation. I could go to Florida and pay no state tax.

Right. Yeah. I mean, the reality is we have the highest tax rate, but not the highest taxes in America.

Who has a higherWhat's the rate of tax?

Tax rate. The vast majority of people are not you. They're not the 1%, which means 99% of other people pay.

I'm subsidizing them. Different taxes.

No, but at the end, well, we can get to that. But the bottom line, places like you use Florida, they tax their low-wage workers more than we tax their high-wage workers.

But, Gavin, I shouldn't be punished for succeeding. And it's a disincentive to me. I get it. Why should I work? Why should I keep working?

There's many reasons, and you don't need to work. I know this. If there's one thing I know. You, of all people, You do not have to work.

You do it for-But I haven't. I'm an immigrant son. I wore dead man's pants as a kid. Every nickel I have, I've worked since I'm five years old. The young man drives to me. He's from Mexico. He says, Michael, you're an inspiration to me. You keep working at your age. I tell all my friends that not all white people in houses don't work. He says, Some of you keep working. And why? He said, You're such an inspiration to me. But work is a... I'm sorry, Rodan, the great sculptor. Everyone knows his work. It's in the Palace of the Legion of Anna, all his work, right? Yeah. Love that museum. So I read Rodan avidly, and Rodan said, Work is the only salvation. And I found that to be true.

I love it. I was with Voltaire. He said, Work solves life's three great evils: boredom, vice, and need. Who said that? Voltaire. Voltaire. Boredom, vice, and need. Look, I'm with you. But I think it's important just in California, the vast majority of middle class taxpayers pay less than they do in California, middle class, than they do in states like Texas. It's a question of who you're for.

We have the highest-How much to what level do they pay low?

We are averaged a slightly above average tax state. It's the one %. And by the way, we haven't raised your taxes the one % since 2011. And it wasn't, by the way, it wasn't governor, it wasn't lieutenant governor. It Wasn't Lieutenant governor? I just became lieutenant governor, but it was the voters of California that did that. But I don't disagree with you.

Poor people always vote for taxation on the rich. That's what Karl Marx taught them to do.

So the thing is-I'm not advocating for increasing taxes. Haven't done it as governor of the of California. No income tax increases under my governorship. I've opposed them. In fact, did $5 million of ads to stop Proposition 30, which was a tax increase run by corporations in the Bay Area that had their own special tax increase, where I did ads to I'm going to impose it and I'm going to impose the wealth tax in California. So we're trying to keep you here, Dr. Savage. I will leave if my taxes go up.

I know, and we're working hard against that. Look, I made a little list. Borders, voting, illegal aliens who are voting in the state. Is that still illegal?

Of course, it was always illegal. It wasn't never not illegal.

I'll bring up vote.

But what substantive evidence is there to suggest that you have any receipts to back up that all of these people are voting illegal in California?

I don't know that all of them are, but I'll ask you a question that everyone... Look, I put this on social media and they said, Ask the governor. And again, I don't have to be contentious to ask you this. No, I appreciate. Why does it take so many months or days to count the ballots in California a month? India, one day to count 640 million votes. Germany, eight hours to count 50 million votes. Argentina, six hours to count 27 million votes. California, four weeks to count 60 million votes. It's ridiculous. Why?

It's ridiculous. And by the way, we've been having this conversation enough. First of all, we believe that every vote counts, so we want to make sure every vote is counted because of the provisional ballots, the fact we do all mail-in ballots, the fact that we have such huge investments in making sure that we increase that outreach. We want to make sure, again, every vote counts, but you're right. I'm right about something? No, absolutely. The right is right, and you are right to criticize the extended period.

I'm not actually a right winger. I'm an independent guy.

You're an independent conservative. I would say-What does that mean independent concern?

Meaning I'll make up my own mind about every issue. So on the environment, I'm probably to the left of you.

What I love about... This is where we have some interaction periodically. I look at you as you're an animal rights guy that's not big into the animal rights advocates.

Well, not burning down clinics or attacking people who eat meat.

You're conservationist, but you don't love the environmentalist.

Because there's a difference. Conservationists believe in conserving the environment. Environmentalists use the environment as a political weapon or a tool to advance, I would say, a Marxist agenda. There's a big difference. It's like anything else. I mean, you could be forced something without using it as a weapon against your political enemies. So Everyone's saying the fires, the fires, the fires. Can we talk about the fire?

We need to talk about the fires. This last decade has been extraordinary and devastating, not just in Los Angeles, but the campfire where I originally was with President Trump as governor of elect walking there. 85 people lost their lives. We live very close, both of us now, in Moraine, Santa Rosa, the tub fire.

I remember, terrible fire.

56, 100 housing units lost. So no, this is serious stuff. And God bless, there's fires going on in the middle of winter in North Carolina as we speak.

But what about the rebuilding down in Pacific Palisades? This is a hot button issue. Shouldn't there be a special master to administer the funds It seems fishy to a lot of people.

Administer which funds? The FEMA dollars?

The rebuilding of Los Angeles.

Well, there should be accountability across the spectrum.

Who's accounting for it?

Well, if the FEMA has rules and regulations that are overseen by Congress, and obviously, the distribution of those runs. A lot of it's individual aid, a lot of it's through the SBA. A lot of it have very prescriptive requirements that are well-established across the country. But we're all for accountability. I'm for accountability and I have no problem. And I think in terms of that, transparency and accountability, He's waiting for it and for all our tax dollars, not just as it relates to retail.

Here's one related to it from my friend Danny Horowitz, who's my attorney. Great man. You got to meet Daniel. Hope you never have to meet him, but now he's a great guy.

Are you getting in trouble?

No, I hate lawyers. I only like my lawyer. So he He loves you. He said, please ask the governor the following. He said, State Senator Scott Wiener, DSF, has introduced SB 677, which his website says is designed to strengthen to a California's landmark housing streamlining laws, SB 9, blah, blah, blah. These bills would allow developers to override local zoning laws and create high density housing in suburbs and places like the burn down areas of LA. The bills allow this intensified development without any provision for increased fire police or water services. He says, Gavin, you signed SB 9 and SB 423, given the devastating impact of Los Angeles fires. Are you willing to rethink your support of these bills and allow local communities to make their own assessments of fire and public safety right in?

As it relates to the specific bill that he referenced, that Scott Wiener just introduced, one of 2,000. Michael, over 2,000 bills were just introduced by the legislature.

Too many bills.

There's not 2,000 problems. I know you think there are a lot of problems. Even you don't think there are 2,000 problems.

I don't think there's two problems. There's only three. What is language and culture?

We'll get to language and culture in a second. We talked a little bit about borders, but no. So first of all, I haven't had a chance to review it, so it's difficult to respond specifically about it. It's not on my desk. It may never end up on my desk.

Which is these bills?

The bill that he was referencing from Scott Wiener. And that's not just me punting on it. But let me talk about the rebuild in LA. I'm not looking upzone the palisades. We're not looking to make this developer friendly. In fact, I waive the Coastal Act, and I waive CECO, which is our environmental reforms, to allow people to rebuild like units within 110% of the original footprint, With the original plans, fast-tracking that process. We got the debris removed. And thank you to the EPA. Thank you, Lee Zeldin. Thank you to President Trump directly for helping. We got the debris for the hazardous waste done in less than 30 days, unprecedented in USA It's history. We want to get the rest of this debris done within nine months. Concurrently, we're already doing housing permits, and people are going to start reconstruction in a matter of months. But you got to build back smarter, better. You got to deal with the climate realities. You got to deal with fire issues. You've got to deal with redundancies and systems related to virus impression.

Sounds like it's going to slow everything down.

Not going to slow everything down. We do this concurrently. We do this in a stacking order. We're trying to do this quickly, but safely and smartly, because we don't want to be as dumb as we possibly want to be by building back in the way that we built in the '50s for a world that no longer exists today. And you have to admit, hots are getting hotter, dries are drier, droughts, these atmospheric rivers. No, no, no.

Mr. Savage. Let's slow down. Science is my middle name.

I know. But your eyes tell you a different story, too, right?

No, no. Reality is reality. Let's talk about climate change. You brought it up.

I brought up temperatures and record A lot of this is total bullshit.

They're all wrong on it. The science doesn't support it. I'm going to give you one piece of evidence that people don't want to look at, real science evidence. I did it on my YouTube channel yesterday because I was talking about the Pope and his health. The Pope is a radical leftist politically, by the way.

St. Francis, San Francisco.

I wish him a speedy recovery, but he was a radical leftist guy, and he was wrong about environmental things because I know who wrote his encyclical on this, and the guy is a classic Marxist. So one piece of evidence, which they'll cut right out of this tape, they're called the Vostok ice core samples. No one heard of them. Okay. Okay. So Russia and France, you got left and right. Scientists from both countries drill into the Antartic shelf. They drill down 10,000 feet, 2 miles. They pull up a core from the Antartic. Why are you looking at the core of the Antartic? Because you can see climactic changes in the core, as you understand. And Now, guess what? There were carbon dioxide increases millennia ago, but they always followed temperature increases. They didn't cause the temperature increases. People don't understand that we had a period of great flora enveloping the Earth, which produced a great deal of carbon dioxide. Now, don't get me wrong, though. I'm not arguing for pollution. I'm a guy who a bicycle every day. I like a Earth.

A Berkeley graduate that bicycles every day and writes books about nutrition.

Believe me, I hate pollution. Is the original...

I mean, the guy who's inspired so much of what Trump is advancing today.

Well, let's talk about that if you want. Let's talk about Trump and Trump is a- Before that, because to be fair on the climate issue, but you'll acknowledge.

I mean, seriously, you're a Northern California guy. You go up to Lake Tahoe, just the snow levels. There's some trend lines here that are understandable headlines.

Yes, but climate has been changing for millennia. Okay.

But you'll acknowledge it's changing.

Well, wait a minute. But it's not changing in the direction you think it is. We're actually entering a little ice period. People don't study history long and in geological history, we're actually entering a cold phase, not a hot phase. So climate... Remember in the middle ages, the 1500s, it was very cold in Europe. Read about that.

You weren't around.

Yeah, it wasn't. But it was frozen. England was frozen. All of the Dickens' novels set in the snowy London. Sure. Because When the cold wave came through England, it was a cold, a little ice age, it was called. We're entering a small little ice period on the Earth, not the opposite. There's a lot more of the science. If you could let me sit down and I'll show you data and your scientists, they're not going to want to hear it because people don't want to look at science. They only want their doxies supported by the science they approve of.

Yeah. No, I mean, look, you don't have to believe in science, but I joked about believe in your own eyes. I mean, places, lifestyles, traditions, community He's been wiped off the map. We had a three-year historic drought, the most significant drought, California's history drought since statehood, and it ended in three weeks with the wettest three weeks since statehood. Correct.

The wettest. Extreme. Because nature always corrects itself.

The most extreme weather.

Gavin, come on. Nature corrects itself. Wait, I'll tell you something.

She does bat last, bats a thousand. Chemistry, biology, physics, that's all Mother Nature is. I'll agree with you on that.

But Gavin, listen, in 1872, it was so in the state of California before there was the first internal combustion engine, 1872, the cornfields exploded in the Sacramento Valley from a heatwave. No cars, no real factories yet because the climate was changing because it always changes. Now, having said that, I'm not arguing for pollution. It's a form of theft in my mind. You know why I moved from New York? Pollution. I left New York in the '60s to get away from the... I would be dead if I had stayed.

By the way, in 1967, Ronald Reagan, then governor, agreed with you. He created the California Air Resources Board because of the smog. In LAGood for him. He wanted to Clean the Air, Clean Air Act, 1970. Did he do it? Our waiver was caught. That's what Trump's attacking right now. There's that beautiful picture of Reagan in the oval looking down at President Trump as he vandalizes Reagan and Nixon's leadership.

I'm not going to join you in attacking Trump on this podcast, even though you would like me to.

No, we're getting along, Trump and I.

Well, here's a question.

We We spent an hour and a half.

How can you ask him for $300 billion to rebuild California and spend 50 million attacking him? How is that possible?

We didn't spend 50 million attacking him. We hope we don't use a penny of it. We were involved in 122 lawsuits in the last Trump administration. I was only involved in two years of that. Governor Brown, who you know well, had on your show over the years, was involved.

I think I did years ago.

Years ago. I say that only to make the point that you're always someone that reaches out, and I've always appreciated that.

I had Nancy Pelosi on my radio show. Proving the point. Nobody would know it. I know. I had Charles Schumer on my radio show years ago. No one knows that. See? You know why? Why? Politics makes strange bedfellows.

That's why we're here. We're having a civil conversation. Look, we didn't put to have money up to go after proactively Trump. We're doing to protect Ronald Reagan's leadership at the California Resource Board.

If you make that point, if you want. Now look, on the environment, I can guarantee you that on the environment, Trump and I don't get along. I can guarantee you. It's interesting. Yeah. We knew that in the last administration. In fact, I can tell you a story about it if you'd like to hear it. I was on Air Force One with him in the flying oval office. I won't tell you the long story, but we flew out of Moffet Field to LA to a fundraiser. I got on at the last minute. He didn't like me because I was criticizing him on the radio about his environmental policies. I'm led into the oval office. I was led on the plane at almost the last minute, and the guy, I won't tell you who got me on. He said, It takes months for clearance. We got you on. He gets I'm on the plane and they have a buffet, and I tend to like wine. I hadn't drunk. So I started drinking wine.

They have wine on Trump's Air Force One.

He doesn't drink, but no. No, I know. I didn't think I'd be meeting him. I thought I was just getting a ride down to LA for another fundraiser. All of a sudden, after I had three glasses of wine, they said, He'll see you now. I said, Shit. Now? So I said, Okay. So they bring me in, and I swear to God, he's sitting in the most powerful chair in the world. And the minute I walk through the door, he He looks at the guy who brings me, and he doesn't look at me. He says, What is he doing here? Points at me like I'm a nun person. But I'm from Queens on the other side of Union Turnpike, and I know how he works. He goes like this, like, Bring the Hebrew in, sit him down. The king, bring him. He sits me down and I say, he says, What are you doing here? Because he knew I was critical of him on animals and the environment. I said, Donald, you need me. I don't need you. I said, Come on, knock it off. You have Hannity in your backpack it like a sock puppet.

I said, They all kiss your ass. I said, You need me because I speak to the educated people out there who want the environment protected. I don't need you. And went on and on. But you know, Gavin, after that, we settled down. We had a 15-minute flight. His valet brings out two hot dogs. They were kosher, by the way, and I'm not kosher, and I'm starving because I didn't eat all day. Show you how sensitive he is. You've met the man. Oh, many times. He looks in my eyes and he sees my eyes dawn onto the hot dogs, and he looks at me and he says, Do you want one? The most powerful man in the world holds up a tray and asks me, I'll take one of his two hot dogs. Being from New York, I said, Sure. Now, last point, he's not a bad guy. He says to me, Mustard or ketchup?

Well, that's obvious, right?

You tell me you're a mustard guy. I'm a mustard guy. Thank God. But he put it on my hot dog. So what is the point? The point is that he's actually a very sensitive guy to other people.

I agree. By the way, you are as well. But I've always felt that about you. I am. It's a compliment.

30 years ago, you It came to a Thanksgiving party. I had a Schroders restaurant. Was it 30 years ago? Gavin, I know.

Okay, I said two decades. It's been three.

Well, okay. I started the radio in 94.

Ray Talia Farrell, which you can't even make up. You subbed for Ray Talia, who was a liberal lion back in the day, late, late, or not.

Remember that? Kgo.

Late, late, night. Kgo. That was obviously such a success. Obviously, you woke a lot of people up.

It wasn't a success. What happened was the program Director asked me to fill in for a guy on KGO I never listened to because I'm not up in the middle of the night. So I figured, I'll do radio. So I go on KGO at night. I didn't even know who he was. And I start talking about stuff that I believe in. And people were calling the most hateful calls I ever had in my life. I drove home that night to my family. I was shaken, looking in the rear view mirror. I was scared someone was going to kill me.

You literally said for Ray Talia Farrow. I'm talking about... I mean, Bernie Sanders is a right-wing conservative.

I'm not even mentioning his name.

No, to compare to Ray Talia Farrow. And He's dominant. But so you got your own show the next year.

No, I went home and I said to my wife, I'm never going to do radio again as long as I live. It was the most hateful experience of my life. I'm not doing it again. Next day, the phone rings, and the rest is history. She beg me to do it again. I said, I'll never do that show again, and I'll never do an overnight show again. And before long, they created KSFO, the conservative Alternative. They made me the afternoon drive host, and of course, it took off from there. Then it became syndicated.

But not just took off. I mean, you had what, nine million listeners?

Probably closer to 20 million listeners at the peak.

You talk about this whole space, and how everything's changed. You've got your podcast now, radio, but you dominated this space.

Well, Rush was number one.

It was you, Rush?

Rush, Hannity and Savage. And Hannity. Yeah. But Hannity has no intellect. Rush, I won't say a word about because he's deceased. I won't talk about the dead.

You've never been shy about criticizing?

Anybody, including myself.

Are you good about your good stuff? But I don't want to... I love... Even Joe Rogan, which is interesting, called him a meathead.

Well, unfortunately, he is a bit of a meathead. I mean, look, you can't argue with success.

No.

And the fact is that he's the most number one biggest podcaster in the country. But ask yourself a question, why hasn't he had me on? Why? It's a good question. Because he's afraid to talk to me? He's had people you've never heard of on that podcast.

Understatement. Most I have. I don't listen to it. But it's a I don't have the time.

Look, I had Tucker Carlson on my first TV show on Newsmax four weeks ago, which was a shock.

Why? Because he hadn't been back on TV in a while.

I didn't think Tucker would do an interview, number one. Interesting. He's a giant in the field. I agree with that. And Tucker always liked me. I ran into him in San Francisco in a studio. We were crossing doing a show. He was very friendly to me. Then he never talked to me again. And I invited him on my TV show, and he shockingly said yes. And he's a very congenial, intelligent man.

Do you like him? I appreciate. But you don't like Glenn Beck. You called him what? Hemroids with Eyes?

Well, I believe that was then. I don't use those terms anymore. I become older and wiser. But, Gavin, you should have Tucker on. He's very smart.

I agree. I'm fascinated by Tucker. But I'm fascinated by-Well, he's a liberal at heart.

People don't remember. Tucker had a bow tie and was on MSNBC. Do you remember that? You had a stand in MSNBC. Three months show on MSNBC.

People can't believe that either. Jesus. I remember. I was watching you every night.

You Did you see the night I applauded? You expressed a strong opinion that was not necessarily shared by many.

It was a prank collar, I recall.

It was a prank collar. They had the power to control it by cutting it and editing it out, and they let it run because I was undermined by the team. Watch out for your team, Gavin. I was told in the media from the beginning, it's always the people who run the cameras, the lights, and the microphones will control your future.

But it's amazing, your resilience. But more important, I want to go back, though. You dominated this space, and you're still at it to the point. You don't need to do this. Obviously, you love doing it. You're entertaining as hell. It's not all just political punitive.

I'm educating it. I'm edutainment. Let's say there's a-You're edutainment?

Is that How do you describe it? Has that been the secret sauce? I mean, you're talking about what you're eating. You're talking about recipes, what you did last night.

That was the fun part of my radio stuff. But on YouTube, I do cooking shows at night in house where I can curse politicians. So if I'm cooking my calamari or my shrimp at night on my pan and the cameras on me, and I say, This shrimp has more integrity than Joe Biden. And I'm not kidding. At least you know it's a shrimp and we're Where it came from. But I would use cooking as a foil. It's a lot of fun.

So what do you make of today? What do you make of the Charlie Kirk types and Tucker? I mean, all these folks, these new platforms, hundreds of them. I mean, they seem to be profoundly influential in building off the craft you led decades and decades ago. I mean, there's the, oh, forgive the frame, but the O-G of so much what existed.

What does O-G mean?

Well, in the vernacular of original gangster. Oh, God. Yeah, right. I'm using just some language that people can appreciate.

No, now I understand.

No, but I mean, literally, it's the world you invented.

I didn't invent it. It existed before me. There was talk right here in New York. I never listened to it, by the way. I was not that interested.

But you took it to another level.

Because I introduced a level of education and knowledge and personality that never existed. People are not willing to talk about their day. If I would walk in San Francisco and I'd go in a restaurant, He'd be eating a lot of cheap Chinese restaurants, which I love, I would talk about the meal. People were interested in the meal as much as they were in the politics, if not more so.

Also, as you're walking the streets, express your point of view about the politics.

Let's talk about San Let's just go, Gavin, please. I love the city. I don't go over the bridge anymore.

Well, I mean, you should. City's coming back.

Here's what happened. About 10 years ago, I was in North Beach.

By the way, North Beach restaurant, just real.

That's another conversation. In November, they called me when I was in Florida, new owners. Do you know them? Yes. He asked me to come in. He said, We know how important you are to this restaurant. By the way, I have three novels here. That restaurant is featured in three of them. I love it. I'm sitting in North Beach having dinner. A man comes by, if you want to call him that, Takes his pants down and defecates outside the window in the street. Yeah, not acceptable. Without civility, there could be no civil order in a country. I agree with you. This shouldn't be permitted.

It's not acceptable. Nor are the encampments, nor are the tents.

I couldn't agree with you.

We're driving accountability.

How do you not crack down on these?

Well, remember, I did care not cash. My body was burning effigy. It became the defining issues. When I was mayor, we dropped, we reduced the street population by a third. Why are they still there? We reduced the overall population. Well, It's not a static environment. I wasn't mayor. It's been a decade plus a decade and a half. I'm the governor, but I'm not the mayor of California, and I want to see accountability at every level of government. The state vision is realized, look, it is turning around.

I still don't go there that often.

You got to go. The neighborhoods are thriving in San Francisco.

I'll go in with Ramirez, that was my body part.

You got a new mayor.

She's great. He's pretty centrist, isn't he?

Yes. And he's cracked down the tents and the encampments and you're seeing progress.

We're starting to see that across the state. I hope I live long enough to eat in San Francisco again. Come on.

You love eating in San Francisco. Scomas and the warfares.

Never ate scomas in my life.

You never did? Okay, I made it up.

We should go to dinner in the North Beach restaurant. We have to. Let's go in when you're ready for it, and then I'll tell the story on my podcast. So, Gab, the homeless thing is the turning point. When that man defecated located outside the window, that was the beginning of the end of San Francisco, not only for me, but for the whole city, because the cops couldn't do anything about it. Their hands were tied by this small band of radical left wingers who are saying, They're sacred. You can't touch them.

When I was there, when I was mayor, you may recall this, I did a sit-lie ordinance. I did this anti-panhandling ordinance. I did care not cash, converting welfare checks to services and accountability. We saw real progress. I've been very aggressive massive on encampments, just did a new executive order in the state, and we're flooding the zone with state support in a way we've never done in the past. When I got there, Michael, this is important. There was never a governor that actually... There was no homeless plan in the state of California. There was no support for cities and counties, and it felt that way. We had under Schwarzenegger, it's not a knock on Arnold, but it goes back to 2005, we had 188,000 homeless in California.

It's not new what's happening now. It metastases into a cancer.

It took over Especially during COVID and what's happening in the streets.

We're blaming COVID, but no civil society would tolerate this, Gavin. Here's my position on it, and it's something you're not going to like to hear. There is a solution to the homeless problem, which is, end it. You build camps for them in places outside cities, and you give them the care that they need against their will. You don't let them shoot up in the streets. You don't let them defecate or urinate or beat up old women in the streets. You take them off the streets.

I agree I 100% agree broadly with that sentiment in terms of coercion. Just so you know, we just did two major reforms. We've had all these old conservatorship laws that are weak. We finally have strengthened the conservatorship law so we can begin to get people off the streets. We also established a new paradigm called CareCourt, which is a whole new strategy to also help in advance to address that subset of people. We did the most significant mental health reforms and investments in state's history. Those resources are going out to do regional centers along the lines of what you're suggesting.

Taking them against their will.

But with a different paradigm of thinking, more supportive care as opposed to substituted care in the vernacular of all the experts. We're trying to make up for this, and you'll appreciate this as a Californian. In 1959, at peak, 1959, California had 37,000 mental health beds. Today, 5,500. Correct.

Oh, you're agreeing to reopen the mental hospitals?

No, for double the population today. So we had half the population in the late '50s and '60s. Yes, of course. And we had 37,000. So what we're doing, we just did this initiative, Proposition One, to provide six plus thousand new units that were all throughout the state and we're regionalizing along the lines of what you're saying.

Mental hospitals?

Literally behavior health, substance abuse, mental health. And literally, it's the biggest investments in US history. Biggest investment.

But do they have to comply?

That's what the conservatorship reform, SB 43 was about. That's what our care court is about.

If a guy defecates outside a restaurant window, a cop can arrest him, send him to one of these facilities?

They can refer them through the care court. In fact, a police officer, quite literally now, because of my care court, can refer. In the past, they could not refer that individual.

I hope it works. Look, we all have a lot at stake in this state and in this city. It's why I don't leave because I still love the state and the city. But if it's intolerable at a certain point, everyone will leave. 100%. Businesses are leaving.

It's interesting. Well, we have more Fortune 500 companies than any time in the last decade.

But why did they kick SpaceX out? Why would you take...

Spacex is not being kicked out.

They can't watch their rockets because of the coastal commission.

And you saw, what did I do? I joined in the law. I literally said, I'm with Elon Musk attacking the coastal commission. I couldn't have been. I was very vocal. That was unacceptable. You were a realist. We had 51 launches last year, which is a record since 1974.

Why would you not want a rocket company in California?

We have the Mahhabi Desert, we have Vandenberg, and we have Rocket Beach, which is Long Beach. We're starting to dominate in this space. I hope so. And we have record-breaking launches out of Vandenberg. We're making with the relativity, not just SpaceX, all of these-You don't want to go to Mars, do you? I'm not personal. I think a lot of people like Elon want me to go to Mars for the wrong reasons.

I don't even want to go over the bridge.

So Let's talk one, and we're out of time. But I want to just before we're done, I do want to talk about Trump and Trumpism. You have to be pretty proud that the issue is a border in language and culture. I mean, the President just came out saying English is the language- That's right out of my mantra.

Right.

I mean, this is stuff you've been preaching for decades.

Salon magazine, Leftwing magazine, a number of years ago when Trump was President, wrote an article called The Father of Trumpamania, and it was about Michael Savage. It was middle ground, wasn't attacking. I was told by one of his chief architects, who I will not mention, shortly after he was elected the first time, he visited me in my home in Florida. He said, Michael, we took all of your books. We made talking points. He ran on your platform. I said, Okay, fine, because I know he was a liberal when he was young in New York. I was a social worker and a Democrat, so people change. One day, you may be a conservative without even knowing it. But no, but, Gavin, so, yeah, I'm the father of a lot I know what he's doing. I was honored to see Borders. But no one's called me from the White House and said, We want to give you the presidential Medal of Freedom. We recognize that you did this. We think you're great. No one's called me.

Why do you think that's the case?

It's interesting because in every political entity, there are politics. I'm not involved at all with the in-crow. I don't know them. You mentioned Charlie Kirk? Yeah. You don't know. To have all of these CPACs? I've never spoken at any of these events. You know what? I didn't. Think about that.

You haven't.

Do you have the equivalent of a presidential medal of freedom in the State of California?

We do California Hall of Fame. Why am I not in it? You are in the Radio Hall of Fame.

I'm in the National Radio Hall of Fame, but why am I... Okay, Gavin.

It's, by the way, thank you for asking that question. It's a good question.

I should be in it.

You know what? You want things to be lit up. You want me to put you.

I want a billboard on the highway again.

I'm going to announce you in the California Hall of Fame. That will light things up, Mr. Savage.

But I deserve it. I came here in '74. Look what I've done in this state.

No, it's unbelievable. You haven't left the state. For a lot of these guys, turn their back on California as they're attacking it. You haven't. So I admire that. I do.

I mean, that's-Well, I don't have to agree with you nor you with me for us to sit and have a civilized conversation. It's the only way we're going to solve the problems of the state and the country. And I feel the same thing about the country itself. The left and the right are at each other's throats to hate each other, and they would like me to have been on this podcast and be screaming and yelling like a foaming idiot. We get nowhere with that. It's idiotic.

The whole point of this is not to have those conversations because those I can hear 24/7 on Spotify.

It's bad for my health, number one, and I don't feel like that gets us anywhere. But before we leave, you brought up Trump and the border language culture, and then you brought up the things. I have to thank you for the Bancroft Library and the Jeps Iberian. I think this should be in your podcast because people say, Why are you so nice to Gavin Newsom? I'm not that nice to Gavin Newsom. I just don't go out of my way to insult people just for the sake of sounding like an idiot. So a lot of people do. Okay, I reached out to you about five years ago, and I said that the University of Texas is interested in collecting all of my writings, all of my manuscripts, my journals, and I said they really naturally belong here in California. And you reached out, and through the chain, the Bankrupt Library came back to me, and they spent two years with me in my archives, taking all of my correspondence, my writings. They have the largest collection of Mark Twain papers in the world. Amazing. I said to the libertian, it was a lovely lady. I said, Don't you feel a little uncomfortable that I'm so-called a conservative?

She said, Michael, we're not here to judge politics. We have conservative authors who are Californians, liberal authors who are Californians. She said, You have done so much in your life. She said, You have three phases. You're a poet and a novelist. Then you were a botanist and a nutrition writer. Then you're a payment political writer. She said, We need that in our library. Then I have a collection of medicinal plants, Gavin. They're in the Jepson Herbarium. They're in seven herbaria around the world. Jepsen is one. These are the plants I collect, the medicinal plants. You know where else they are? Where? Moscow Herbarium. I've never been there. Kuhu Gardens, London, New York Botanical Garden, Chicago Herbarium, and the Honolulu Bishop Museum. We have a rare collection of all my collections in the Jepsen Herbarium. Again, this is for scientists to look at for ages, and it's here. I want to thank you for opening the doors because another governor just said, go pound sand. I'm not interested.

No, I appreciate it. It was an honor to be I don't know how much helpful are you. I mean, this was on all of it, on the merits, substantively, and everyone doing the right thing. But when they don't do the right thing, I call it out. I can't stand cancel culture. I love free speech. I can't stand when someone... I remember Bill Baha was going to Berkeley or something, and they said, Bill's too conservative and too controversial. I've never liked that. Called it out then will continue to. So I don't think anyone served in that respect. All these banning and cultural purges that people have been on are unhealthy.

You don't believe in the MaoCultural, the bouncer.

No, I think a lot of people assign and attach those points of view to me. But let me ask you in closing.

Are you putting me in the California Hall of Fame?

You're going to put me on this. But by the way, you just made the most compelling case you possibly could have for the multidimensionality here. There are people in that Hall of Fame that have done basically one simple thing. Here you are, 29 books, best-selling books across the spectrum of issues.

Plant collector, poet, novelist, I know. And you were banned from the UK.

Oh, you know that. Yeah. They called you what? Propaganda of hate or something? What was the exact phrase?

I'm the only American author banned in Britain for things I didn't even say. It was a terrible, terrible thing to do to me. And I woke up that morning, I saw it on the Drudge report at the time, and I said, Oh, my God, I'm banned in England. So I went on the radio show and I said, God, there goes the great cuisine that they're known for and my dental care that I was looking forward to. So everyone I love that line. But I think it's a terrible thing to do to me because first of all, I didn't say the things they said I said. Secondly, I spent $400,000 to try to get my name off the list, and I did not succeed. I gave up. I don't even care.

Still on it?

Yeah, I can't go to England. To this day. I cannot enter England, the land of the free. The land of the Magna Carta does not let Michael Savage in, but they let jihadists run around screaming, kill the queen. I'm not going to argue with that. Do you know Stommer? I don't I think we may have to bring it up. Have you met Stommer?

We'll have to bring it up. Let me ask you.

Get me off the list.

Let me ask you this. If you were going to list, speaking of list, Democrats, if they're not trying to figure out what the hell just happened, they sure as hell should. Right. So I'm serious about this. I'm not asking for a flippant... It's not a flippant question, and I hope it's certainly not patronize it. But what the hell do you think our party needs to do? And What's the biggest lesson? Seriously.

Are you really serious? Michael Savage, we need to know. My advice to the Democrats.

Advice to the Democratic Party. Was it because we're too woke, because we didn't focus on borders? I mean, is it...

It's really straightforward. What is it? It is border's language and culture. The thing that triggered most of the people who turned against the Democrat Party was this incessant drum beat, going back years, vilifying the white male. White supremacy. White supremacy. Remember that? That became a mantra of the Democrat Party. They took all the working class white guys and said, What the fuck you, basically. Pardon me. What are you doing, man? We work. We are also citizens. Why are you turning us into Hitlers? That was one thing. Then the illegals getting free care, and then the illegals voting in some municipal elections. But the big thing was the women. When you had people with the or whatever you want to call it. The whole trans. The whole trans issue triggered the women who were normally liberal. But when you have kids being brainwashed in school to accept that stuff in the kindergarten, Hey, I'm a sexual libertarian. I want to be very clear, okay? I really don't care what people do to make themselves happy, okay? This is not my business. Life's very hard. If you can be happy with someone, God bless you. But leave the kids alone.

That's the whole point. When you start crossing that line into the schools, you're going to see what happened. That's what just happened. It was the women and the schools, I think, Gavin.

Interesting. The trans issue, you thought that was outside.

It was a children issue. It wasn't the trans. No one's against.

It was a gender assignment, surgeries for these minors. Yes. Where you felt that our party was complicit in terms of creating those conditions.

I think so.

Promoting it to some degree, you would argue?

I wouldn't even go there. I would say that the people had enough. There were so many more important issues. God, faith, For some reason, there's a spirit. We didn't even get... Let's do another podcast in a month. I know. Talk about God.

Which is a big part of your life, faith.

People don't know that.

Big part.

I pray every day.

And have for decades. And you You are, by the way, and then we're going to close on this. You are ascending to a unique status.

Shocking, isn't it?

Well, no. Tell us about it.

The President of a local Jewish community from a very author an paradox group of Jewish people, the guys that wear black, the black hat people. They like me, and I say to them, I'm not that religious. Why do you want me to become reaching out to the community? They said, You're more religious than us in some ways. They watch my podcast and they don't watch the media. They know that there's a spiritual element to Michael that's palpable, that emanates, and they like it. It's that simple. But does that mean I'm holier than anyone? I am such a fallen angel, Gavin.

Well, it's good to be with another fallen angel.

I'll reach across the aisle on that one.

It's great to have you. Michael Savage, thanks for being here with us.