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[00:00:05]

How much would you risk to save the life of a family member for Fanelli Rowe? The answer is everything. The second installment of the critically acclaimed drama Save Me comes to Peacock with Save Me Two in season one. Nellie Rowe is accused of abducting his estranged daughter, Jodie, after a quest that turns his life upside down. Jodie is still missing, but Nellie uncovered dark, hidden world that he can't turn away from now and save me to know he's willing to risk his relationships and his life to find Jodie with new suspects, new stories and new secrets save me, too.

[00:00:41]

We'll have you hooked from the moment you start watching. This series stars Lenny James, Ciaran Jones and Steven Graham. Your next great binge is waiting for you with Save Me to the gripping Peacock original series. Sign up at Peacock TV.com to stream now.

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De de de de de de de de de de de de de de de. Hey, guys, in today's episode, we're going to discuss Crystal Risinger case, which was featured in the third episode of Up in Venice TV series. If you haven't seen the TV show yet, you can stream the episode from the Oxygen app whenever you want. Here's a quick refresher on Crystal's case.

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In July of 2016, 29 year old Crystal Risinger went missing from Crestone, a spiritual outpost in the mountains of Colorado.

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The Navajo Indians have considered Crestone sacred ground as a haven for people on a spiritual journey. It is a very bright place during the day. And then that night was a very dark place. Her apartment was locked. No sign of a struggle. Crystal was a very smart, talented young lady. The one thing she loved more than anything in life was our daughter. She would not have severed ties with our daughter.

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Many speculated that she had gotten lost in the mountains on a spiritually driven walkabout.

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She was very much into the occult. However, she was never found along any trail, and she appeared to take none of her valuables. People were afraid to talk or don't like to get law enforcement involved.

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Some say she was hanging out with an untrustworthy crowd involved in hard drugs.

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She was about ready to go to the police about being raped, and people didn't want her to make that report. I suspect foul play up and vanished covered Crystal's case in season two. And the team is back to follow up on tips and talk to a particular person of interest who, according to the police report, may have been the last person to see Crystal. Some people were scared after the podcast came out.

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Justice will be served and get ready because we're going to get everybody else involved. The following is an extended interview from our time on Crystal Risinger case. My name is IRA MacDonald. How would you describe a place like Christo? It changes a lot and it has changed a lot, so it's a hard question to really answer for someone who's ever been here, though, what would be how would I describe it? Yeah, I would say that it's stunning with things like nature, the mountains, clean air, clean water.

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And that draws a lot of people here. We're also well known for the spiritual centers outside of town. The actual town of Crestone is a mixture. It's a mixture of ages, different kinds of people, different backgrounds, different interests. It's pretty well known for being a freethinking place where there's a lot of free thinkers, a lot of people that are outside of the box, a lot of freedom, a lot of. Openmindedness, some people call it a free range, insane asylum, which can be kind of the shadier aspect of it, but really it's just a mixture of really interesting people.

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Is there a dark side to Christian?

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Yeah, there's pretty much a dark side to every place, though, but it's more noticeable in Christian because the population is so small.

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So it stands out more when you notice it than in bigger cities and places like that.

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Do you think that a lot of people come here to get away from the world over?

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Oh, absolutely. Yeah. People come here to get silence, to get back in touch with themselves. It tends to attract hermits and people that like to, you know, spend time by themselves. A lot of people come out here to get away from the noise, you know? Yeah. How did you first meet Krystal? I first met Krystal.

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Well, I'd seen her at the pub several times just in passing. So I saw her many times before I was introduced to her. But my ex-husband, David Steel, was friends with her and he mentioned to her that I had a room becoming available in my building, which I was the property manager of the building. He introduced me to her officially. We got to talking and realised we had a lot of things in common and we sort of became acquaintance, friends, and she was desperate to find a place to live.

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And I decided to give her a chance and see how it would go the last time you saw Chris. Let's see, probably the beginning of July. Like the first week of July, I think, did something happen to her in late June that she was telling you about?

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Yes, well, I mean, where would I start with that? Let's see. You came to her door one time, right?

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Yes, it was to collect rent. It was a little bit late. I think that was July 1st, if I remember correctly, or later, it was July 2nd or July 1st. I just went to knock on our door because the actual landlord of the building needed all of the rent checks to be in the same envelope. And so when one person was late, it threw everyone else off. So I went up there. I had noticed that something had shifted with her previously to that.

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Maybe a few weeks before that, I noticed she looked more stressed out. She looked like she'd probably fallen back into some drugs again or something about it. It was getting bad. She was also stressed out and broke at that time, too. But I went to go collect rent. I knocked on her door. She didn't answer. I knocked one last time and I was going to leave. When she opened up the door and she had a tear, tear stained face, she was extremely distraught.

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And I said, What is going on? Are you OK? She said, I don't really want to talk about it, but I went to a party and I'm pretty sure that I was drugged and raped. She said she couldn't really remember a lot of it. But, you know, later on when I spoke with some other people and they said, how do you how did she know? I mean, physically you would know. And if people were rough with you, you would still feel sore afterwards, even if you couldn't really remember anything.

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So I asked her if she was planning on doing anything about it or she said she was considering going to a clinic and getting it checked out. But the protocols and how all of that stuff works, I think that she just decided it was too much and she didn't do it. So because of the state that she was in, I said, don't worry about your friend. Just come and bring it to me whenever you're ready. And if you need to talk to someone, I'm here for you, you know, and that was pretty much the last real time that I talked to her.

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I mean, I might have seen her in and she did drop her friend off, I think, the next day for me. But I could tell she didn't really want to talk. Whose house was she that night?

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She didn't tell me. She didn't tell me. But I do know that after she went missing, her friends were coming around looking for her and all of them were all saying that she had to be at catfishes. Her boyfriend said she had to be over. There were actually people convinced that she was being held there and that she was still there. And so they were talking about banding up to go and confront him and get her out of his house.

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But I don't know if they ever did that. I don't know if they ever went over there and did that.

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What do you think happened? Because all of her stuff is inside of her apartment and she just left or something. Either she went somewhere or someone took her from there. What do you think happened?

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Well, I can tell you that we could never find her key, so she may have brought her key with her. We never found the wallet. So she may have had a wallet with her, but she left her tobacco, her phone in her bag at home and her computer is off the phone that.

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Yes, it seems like. Well, I think it's it's weird. She left her tobacco at home and her phone. Yeah. And all the lights were on. The fan was on.

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It was like that for weeks. Was that tell you that she probably either left voluntarily on her own or went off with someone or someone came to get her and she had an intention of coming back and she never came back?

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Maybe she thought it would only last a few minutes and she got her stuff in a minute or someone hurried her out of the room. Yeah, yeah. It seems like she thought she was going to right back. Oh, yeah.

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Yeah, for sure. Mm hmm.

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Yeah, it was disturbing. It was disturbing. Even the cop that came the first night had a bad feeling. We all had a bad feeling about it. And we did listen to our phone messages. And there were a lot of there were a lot of back and forth phone tag moments with with catfish.

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He was the last person to reach her on her phone.

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Really? Yeah. What was he saying? I don't know.

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I we never got a message from him, a voice mail message from him. But you know how it says you dial you dial the number or made a call to somebody. The last person that she made a call to was him.

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When did you first realize that she was missing?

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I had a weird feeling about it, but it's when your property manager, you don't want to babysit your tenants and everybody's got their lives. People go away on vacation. They're not going to always tell me where they're going. They have their own life, so. I would say probably by the second week into July, I started to have a bad feeling because at night I would be walking down the street and every night I would look up at her window and all the lights were on and the fan was on.

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And I spoke with Jeremy Jeremy. She did have a car at one point and then her car was gone. And we didn't know that she had sold her car to someone. And so we thought she still had her car and we thought, oh, her car's gone. So maybe she went on a trip or maybe she went someplace. But I had to leave her a number of voicemail messages complaining about some things that had gone on that I needed her to help me clean up.

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And she never responded. And I never heard back from her. And after I had left the fourth voicemail message, I entered the fan and the lights were still on in the window. I asked Jeremy if he had seen her and Jeremy said no and that he had a weird feeling about it, but her car was gone. Maybe she just went away.

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But then her friend, who's Jeremy, her closest neighbor and two or two, they shared a very tiny lobby. So he was the closest tenant to her unit. And yeah, he he said, I haven't seen her at all or I haven't heard her at all. But her friends are starting to come by looking for her and I have a weird feeling about it. And so we we let some time pass, you know, and then towards the end of the month, I just got a really bad feeling.

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You know, she should have been home by then or contacted me or something. I just started to feel weird about it. So that's when Nathan contacted me on Facebook and said, Have you seen Crystal? And I haven't I don't know where she is. Is she OK? Did she pay her rent? And when her boyfriend didn't know where she was then I was like, OK, something's wrong. And that's when I called up the police. Do you think do you think Krystal was murdered?

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Yeah, I think she's dead. Yeah. I don't know if maybe I mean, it's all theories, right? Unless, you know, or were there, but it's either she was murdered deliberately or she was accidentally killed. But there's I mean, there's been a lot of things in town about for a number of years now before Crystal, during Crystal and then after crystal of women being drugged and raped here by groups of men. And most of them end up being dumped in their driveway with no panties.

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And they can't remember what the heck happened to them. So they can't remember faces. They can't remember what happened, but they know something happened.

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Who's doing this group of people? People, you know, not that I know. Whatever a group it is, they're pretty good at hiding it or hiding who they are. And a lot of the women don't remember. But since the podcast came out, I remember going to the liquor store and there was a neighbor of catfishes who heard my voice and recognized it and he said, your your aren't you? And he said, you know, I've been neighbors near Catfish for a long time.

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And after the podcast came out, I got weirded out because there were always bright lights, super, super bright lights, not growing pot lights. That's different. These are different lights and they would happen every night and flashes and things like that. And he he said that he was walking down the road, ran into catfish and said, hey, what's up with all of the bright lights at night? And he said, Oh, I'm a photographer.

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So my personal feeling, my personal opinion is that they probably document it and have been doing this for a long time. So they either shoot movies or they take pictures. I mean, there was a picture on Friday, Brian's film eight years ago, of one of his friends raping his daughter. So they must share that stuff with each other. I don't know.

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It's creepy. It's really, really, really disturbing. Really, really disturbing. And the rumor thing is tricky because people chuck it off as all of rumors, but rumors usually come from someplace. And if you hear the same rumor from multiple mouths, it probably comes from some kind of truth. So about your experience, whose name is come up the most in this case, catfish?

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But I again, I've also heard other things and I have a feeling that he's connected to even more dangerous people that he deals with and probably gets some of his stuff from. So there may be other higher ups involved. It's either it's either Catfish did something to her or catfish is connected to people who did something to her. And they're all part of that group, you know? See what I'm saying? So how are the how are the cops handling this?

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I don't know about these days, but back then they handled it extremely badly and there were some things that being a mother really rubbed me the wrong way. That made me question, you know, I mean, I can't say that the whole sheriff's department is crooked or I don't even know the sheriff.

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I've never really dealt with the sheriff. Mainly I've dealt with Wayne. And I can definitely say that Wayne specifically handled some things extremely weirdly like, let's see, I reported her missing. The first cop, Mr. Tyler, showed up. He was super nice. I could tell he was a really good cop and a good guy, and he could sense that something was really wrong. Then all of a sudden they switched it to Wayne. So it was no longer under that guy.

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It was under Wayne. So because I listened to the messages and there were a lot of recordings of her contacting Catfish as the last person she spoke to, I brought it up with him when I said, aren't you going to go talk with catfish? I mean, I'm a mom. If my daughter disappeared, I would go straight away to whoever was the last person she spoke to on her phone to ask, hey, what's up? Have you seen her?

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Do you know what happened to her? That's just a given. You would have to do that right away within twenty four hours. Sure. He waited days and days and I said, why aren't you talking with catfish? He said, we can't find catfishes address. I'm sorry, but can't you look that up on a computer in a matter of minutes. On where people are located and their names, and so he said we can't find his address.

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We need his address. And I said, OK, I'll go find his address for you. So Marina knows Catfish is friends with catfishes dad. I went up to the liquor store and said, do you have catfishes address? She gave me a map with the exact right address. I called it in to the police station. And then three or four days later, I ran into my ex-husband and I said, What are you up to?

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He said, Oh, well, Wayne can't find catfishes address. And so I'm running all over town trying to find the address for him. And I said, that makes absolutely no sense, because I just called it in four days ago and I got the impression that he was trying to keep people distracted and busy running around.

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Why would he do that?

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To hide the fact that they weren't looking into it? I'm not sure. Or to make people think that they were doing something about it or to distract people with something to give them to do to get them busy, I don't know. But by the time he actually went, there were so many of our friends complaining and not she had a wide array of friends. Not all of them were in that scene. Not all of them did drugs. Some of them were total super sweet, amazing person.

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Not that people who do drugs aren't, but there were all different kinds of people that were friends with her. And a lot of them were complaining, saying, why haven't you gone to catfishes? And I think that's when he finally had to go over there and talk. But that was like a week or two weeks later when a lot of if there was ever any evidence, they could have easily gotten rid of it in that time. Right.

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So Catfish, what's up with catfish?

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Who is I have only met him a few times in person a long time ago. For all I know is that he's the big drug guy that you can get anything you want from. So if you want acid, if you want mushrooms, if you want whatever, whatever, pharmaceuticals, whatever, you go to catfish to go get that.

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And I do know he's kind of a recluse. He hangs out in his house all the time.

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So does he have a job selling drugs? I don't know. I don't know the guy. I briefly met him once for a total of maybe fifteen minutes at Saturday market years ago when he was there with some Opel's he was selling or something. Is he is he still in town?

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No, he skipped town around the time when the podcast came out and then his house was gutted and they even removed the windows. Really. Yeah.

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And I looked into it because I was like, OK, why would they remove windows? Can the windows hold meth? Because I know that walls can and the toxins can last in a building for a super long time. But looked into it, meth can get caught in glass. And so my guess is that at one point they were using it as a place to either do meth, smoke, meth or make meth. And maybe there was some DNA or who knows what in embedded in the walls, who knows?

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But definitely the whole thing was so obvious. I'm sorry, but, you know, I mean, the timing.

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How do you feel about the timing of him leaving the podcast comes out. He's been seventeen years. That's what I mean about being obvious to me. That's really obvious. Everyone thought so. Yeah. You know.

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There's a lot of opinions and Crestone, a lot of different kinds of people, some people blew it off, some people acted like she was just a messed up person and who cares what happened to her or she just ran off. And and there's a lot of other people that have been here for years that have children and they really want to know what happened. And we're all really concerned. How do you feel about it? About while Krystal and finding her and her daughter, her family getting answers?

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I want Crystal and her family to both. I want Crystal's daughter, especially Crystal's family, to have justice. I want Crystal to have justice. And not only that, I want justice for this town because I live here. I have a daughter. I don't want my daughter to be a teenager here. Right. I don't know if I could move and bring her someplace else, I would write, and it doesn't matter whether people think she was messed up or not, she was a human being and everyone should be concerned that things like that are going on.

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It just blows me away that there's been rumors for years of girls being drugged and raped and nothing has ever been looked into it or done about it. A lot of people here want to pretend that those things aren't happening or they want to believe that it's not that bad, you know, and the ones that do know it's that bad are probably involved in it or have been a victim of that. You know, from the rumor mill here, have you heard any one in town talking about where her body might be?

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I've heard lots of rumors. I've heard one that she was I've heard that her body was moved several times and then incinerated. I've heard. I heard one rumor that she was buried underneath concrete in somebody's yard. Those are the things that I've heard. Yeah, then there's rumors she was dumped down a mine, there were rumors she was carried someplace far away. The thing with the gold van and and seeing a body bag that was much later on from when she disappeared, but it is completely possible they could have been moving her.

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Yeah. So, I mean, if you have to, like, try to imagine to be a drugged out meth head in order to get the mentality, but the adrenaline and the fear that's caused by possibly getting caught, who knows? They could have totally moved her several times and then figured it out from there. There was a girl, dead girl found in a barrel and Murfitt years ago. So it could be anywhere. That's the thing. It could be on somebody's property.

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It could be. Who knows?

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You know, what do you think it's going to take to solve Krystle's disappearance? Somebody being a somebody involved in it or who was there or or who know people who were there, who is brave enough to actually speak up about it, but if you're involved in that scene, those people are can be deadly. And there about I mean, let's face it, like they all get there. There's a larger drug scene going on in our valley that has to do with trafficking things from Mexico.

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But it would have to take someone being extremely brave. Sometimes the case comes along that is so heinous, so shocking that it's called the crime of the century.

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Truth is, though, there have been a lot of those cases over the years. I'm Amber Hunt, an award winning journalist and author with a new podcast that marries true crime with history. It's called Crimes of the Centuries from the Obsessed Network. I'm examining stories that left a mark.

[00:25:33]

Some of them are first of their kind, like the country's first recorded murder trial or first kidnapping for ransom. Crimes of the centuries will explore not just the crimes that were committed, but what was happening in the world at that time and what effects they had on society that we may still notice today. Subscribe to crimes of the centuries from the Obsessed Network, an Apple podcast, or wherever else you get your show's. The up Venice team, Donald, Meredith and myself sat down for a roundtable discussion about our experience revisiting the case.

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Coming right off of season two of the podcast Crystal Risinger case, we basically immediately started filming and I said we have to do a TV show episode about Crystal. We have to continue covering the story however we can. And so obviously, having spent. Almost a year in Colorado. With Krystle's family in Crestone talking to everyone we could think of. We had to try something a little different this go around for me that was that was getting face to face with some people.

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I had a lot of questions for and I think you know who I'm talking about, there's one person in particular, and that was pretty much the game that I was playing. How do I get this particular person to sit down with me, man to man, and have a real discussion about what may have happened to Crystal? And thankfully, we we accomplished that, and I think that based on the way that it went, it tells you a lot about that person.

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For me, I felt like. This this guy. This guy is hiding something. And you know, that's just my gut feeling, and I think just it's hard to make excuses for his behavior. I don't care how strange you are. The way that he is acting on camera and you'll see it. Tells you a lot. And this was your first time face to face with him. You've talked to him on the phone and exchanged emails and text with your first time face to face.

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Yeah, with Tara's case being there for so long in in Wasilla, but with no cameras, it was definitely different when shooting the pilot, coming back to the reception from the town. Right. You had people who are like, oh, yeah, you guys are here finally going to get some closure for this thing. The people saying, I don't want you in my restaurant because you're just here to kick up more dust. Let's talk about how it was going back to Crestone with cameras this time and how was that experience.

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So people can know.

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I mean, personally, I wasn't very excited about bringing a whole camera crew to Crestone, Colorado. Right. One, because immediately everyone who lives there is going to know exactly who this is. And exactly what we're doing, I knew was just a matter of seconds or minutes before the whole town knew what we were up to. And so I told the entire production crew, literally everyone I could think of to really keep a low profile when we get there.

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I knew eventually the cat would be out of the bag, but I don't I didn't want the second that we arrived in Crestone for any of our on camera interviews to be jeopardized by people knowing that we were that we were present at all.

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I mean, but that didn't last long. I mean, soon as you pull up in two black SUVs in Crestone, you're pretty much outed that you're there. You're not a local. Oh, still is a small town. Right? I mean, but it's the south. It's it's a, you know, kind of a it's a unique town, but nowhere near as unique as Kristen and Kristen is this spiritual center, you know, your mountain ranges and just people who are there for various reasons.

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It's not just like your small town in the south. So you're going to stick out like a sore thumb unless you are truly a local.

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No one drives a black SUV and Crestone. Right? I kind of think I miss the anonymity of coming to Crestone, a really tiny town and not having some preconceived notion about who we were and what we were doing. But at least I guess people knew immediately, oh, it's for that podcast. So it's oh, it's for that story. So in some ways, people came to us like we got some tips. And I think one of the best things we did this in this case right now is follow up on some tips that we hadn't had the opportunity to follow up on before.

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Yeah, there's a lot of power and being incognito when it comes to investigating something. And so the first go around and Crestone, we had that we had this sort of, you know, we were we were anonymous, no one knew our faces, no one knew what we were doing. It was just us taking notes with a little recorder. But the next time around, you know, flash forward to the TV show we roll up and these big black SUVs looking like the DEA or something.

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And I mean, instantly, everyone knows what's going on. And so in that instance, this go around, you know, we have to we had to harness that. We had to use that to our advantage. You know, obviously, it's not my ideal way of doing things, but that's just what it was. We're filming this. That comes with extra people. You just have to ride the bull. And that's what we did. We followed up on tips and we use that to our advantage as much as we could and talk to some new people and.

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Ask some people we talked to before, some some new questions, it was great to have that opportunity to bring more people out there, have a bigger team there, feel like we could do some more?

[00:31:30]

Yeah, I think it's also good to let it kind of put the town and those who might be responsible on notice that, like, the podcast was over. But this this thing wasn't over for us. And not only do we come back, we came back with cameras. We came back to do it on a different on a different level in a different way. So, you know, as much as we can do that, we like to just because you don't want anyone ever get comfortable that they've gotten away with this.

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Yeah, absolutely. And the truth is, there's still tapes being sent in. There's still people giving information and talking about this case. So it really isn't over. All right.

[00:32:08]

Yeah, there was a lot of pressure, not just in Crystal's case, but all the cases that we looked into to move the needle in some way in a very short amount of time. And so my head was always going to, OK, where is this person of interest? There always is one. And there's usually one that hasn't been talked to or confronted and find that person, get as much information as you can and then go talk to them.

[00:32:35]

Mm hmm. Go talk to them. And for me, this was I mean, obviously, there's a huge emotional connection to Crystal's case. Spent so much time in Crestone with Krystal's family. And her friends and this go around, we wanted to. Really? Fight for answers in a different way, and to me, that was. Making catfish sit down with me and have a real conversation. And essentially preparing myself for that as much as possible.

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Yeah, that was the one thing that I think.

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Was needed in the absence of, you know, answers and justice, it was to get face to face with the person who was really at the center of this and whose story didn't quite make sense and whose erratic behavior kind of needed to be confronted and explained and nothing changed. You know, they saw his his behavior.

[00:33:38]

One thing that was really interesting about revisiting this case was how much physical ground we covered in twenty eighteen. We did team up with Chris Hall's need to search minds, and that was totally new experience for our team. But this time we went back and we searched even more tips and we collaborated with Tracy Sargent once again with her search and rescue dogs. And we got to see totally different areas that people said, you know, maybe this could be an area of interest, maybe this could be something that would help solve this case.

[00:34:18]

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[00:35:35]

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[00:37:03]

So many people have directly spoken to have hinted or alluded at catfish being involved in some form or another, or at least knowing something. Even Catfish himself says that he has the proof ready. Brian admitted to killing Crystal, but on the phone it was easier for Catfish to dodge my questions and just go off on tangents. He loves doing that. So the day that I finally met Catfish in person went like this. A few days prior, I tried to arrange meeting him in person in his hometown in North Carolina.

[00:37:32]

I knew that later that week I'd be there with the producers of the TV show. This is my one shot to get them on camera and ask him some hard questions. And to my surprise, captain agreed to meet, so we chose a local public park that was apparently not too far from his house, the day comes, I arrive. But there's no catfish, I wait, I wait and I wait, and eventually I reached back out to him on Facebook.

[00:37:57]

And this time, my video call on Facebook chat, from the moment he answered, he gave me all these reasons about why he can't go basically just excuse after excuse. And even though my patience was wearing thin, I tried my best to convince him to talk to me again in person. Finally, after a back and forth that gave me a headache. We agreed to meet at a local bar that was not too far from the park. This time, he better show up and to everyone's surprise, he did.

[00:38:25]

For about an hour, Catfish and I sat outside on the patio talking about Crystal's case in the beginning, it was a lot of the same stuff I'd heard before, random tangents about absolutely nothing. Eventually, I started asking the hard questions about seeing that Facebook proof that he said he had about ready Brian killing Crystal immediately. He told me that the Colorado Bureau of Investigation said he can't release it. So I called his bluff by calling the CBI right there in person.

[00:38:52]

And they say right there on speakerphone that catfish can, in fact, release it. So what is he talking about? Again, Catfish is tripping over himself and his lies. It was after my speaker phone call with the CBI, the catfish had really lost his temper. All of a sudden, he just up and leaves walking the other direction, then randomly sits down in a booth with another guy. Turns out his dad was there, too, when Catfish left the table.

[00:39:18]

He had dropped his glasses. So as a nice guy, I was bringing them back to him as I approached the table, I try to introduce myself to catfishes dad in catfish, stood up, pulled out his motorcycle helmet and pretended to swing it at me. Knowing the guy was obviously a loose cannon, I thought he was really going to do it as I was leaving the bar in my vehicle, Catfish approached me and reaches inside the vehicle and basically tries to punch me by the time I actually left.

[00:39:48]

He was just so mad about how our exchange went. He was actually trying to physically take it out on me if there was any question about this guy's potential of harming somebody. Well, I can say that he made a feeble attempt to harm me. Either way, the guy is a loose cannon. And when faced with real hard questions about what happened, not just that, Cephus says that he has proof that Freddie Bryant killed Krystal. When asked about that, he gives me a lie that the CBI won't let him release it.

[00:40:22]

So right then and there before he can go on a tangent and distract me or whoever else I call the CBI right there to call the bluff and on the phone, on speaker phone, knowing that catfish is there. He gives catfish permission to release that screenshot that already Brian killed Krystal, faced with that right there. He then tells me that. He doesn't think that was the CBI, the agent that he's talked to before his, which is who I called that that was someone else who maybe sounded a lot like him, as if I maybe hired an actor.

[00:40:59]

With people like this, the lies just don't stop at a certain point when you push them in a corner and you keep presenting to them why that is a lie, their lies start to make less and less sense. And for me, this is one that made the absolute least amount of sense that when I call the bluff about the CBI preventing him from releasing that information, he only won. The phone call was ended, says that he thinks that wasn't the CBI and that that's why he won't release it.

[00:41:29]

The bottom line is that there's always going to be a reason or excuse for catfish to not come forward with something, and if he has nothing to do with Crystal's disappearance or Krystle's murder, then why does he seemingly have so much to say about it all the time? Why are you meeting me to talk about it? Clearly, you have something to say. Catfish, you were the last person to see Krystal alive, and if you weren't proved that, you weren't.

[00:41:58]

So as Catfish had his hands inside the vehicle, obviously I'm driving off and he proceeds to spit on the back of my rental car. Basically all this to say that if you hurt Catfish talking in the podcast, meeting him in person is exactly what you would expect it to be. To sum it up, my entire interaction with catfish at the bar that day was full of empty threats on my own life personally, even as I tried to leave in the end, Catfish approached my vehicle and tried to punch me regardless of catfishes involvement in Crystal's murder.

[00:42:31]

There's something wrong with the guy. And if you don't believe me, just watch the show. And beyond Catfish, John and Crystal's case, there's one or two more guys that I think need to be tracked down and talk to. I personally believe that these conversations are really the way to shake things up. This Saturday at 7:00, Central Oxygen Network will play the next episode in the Up and vintage TV series. We'll be covering the Molly Miller and Coltons case.

[00:42:59]

And don't forget to tune in next week for a follow up podcast episode on the same case. Thanks for listening, guys. See you next week. We'd like to take this time to remind you that tenderfoot TV set up a go fund me account for Akashat Crystal's daughter. Donations will help build a brighter future for Akasha, despite the family difficulties since Crystal disappeared. For details and to donate visit for Carsia Dotcom. That's for Carsia dotcom FBAR case. A dotcom FSR case, a dotcom.

[00:43:41]

If you have any questions about the cases covered by the Up in Venice TV series, please call us at seven seven zero five four five six four one one. Again, that's seven seven oh five four five six four one one.

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Executive produced by Pam Lindsay and Donald Allbright, additional production by Mike Rooney, Meredith Steadman and Cooper Skinner, voice narration by Robert Karta, original music by makeup and vanity set a big thank you to the crew and everyone we spoke to during filming.

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Check out the show this weekend only on oxygen.