I'm Ayesha Rosco, and this is the Sunday Story from Up First, where we go beyond the news of the day to bring you one big story. Tonight, Hollywood's biggest stars gather for the Academy Awards, the annual celebration of all things movies. If you've been listening to the Sunday Story for a while, you know I love horror movies, so I was happy to see the horror genre getting some love this year. The The Substance was about the terrifying outcome of an age-reversing drug, and it's been nominated in five categories, including Best Picture and Best Actress. I also saw Conclave. It's a visually stunning film. Acting is amazing. It's about the selection of a new Pope. I really love that one. Of course, I had to watch Wicked with my kids. We had a lot of fun. If you haven't seen it, you don't have to look to the Western sky. That's in the movie. It's a prequel to The Wizard of Oz, and it's got a whopping 10 nominations this year. Beyond that, I haven't been able to see many of the movies this year because I'm always working. But our friends over at Pop Culture Happy Hour have seen them all.

It's their job. And we're going to hear their predictions coming up right after the break.

When she teaches her students how to write a song, musician Scarlett Keyes says they need to ask themselves certain questions. What is the thing that keeps you up at night? What's the thing you can't stop thinking about? As songwriters, we are repurposing human tropes and a new viewpoint with new words, with new music.

The people and technology behind the soundtracks of our lives.

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On the Embedded podcast. No. It's called Denying a Sweet Home of Speech. It's misinformation. Like so many Americans, my dad has gotten swept up in conspiracy theories.

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We're back with the Sunday Story from Up First, and today we're sharing an excerpt of an episode from our friends at Pop Culture Happy Hour. It features all of their predictions of who will be the big winners at tonight's ceremony.

A misunderstood witch, an unknowable singer-songwriter, a dejected TV personality, and the dean of Cardinals will all walk into the Dopey Theater on Sunday night. Because it's that time of year again, yes, it's the Oscar.

It's an interesting crop of best picture, director, and acting committees, and we're talking about who we think will win and who we think should take home those shiny gold statues. I'm Stephen Thompson.

And I'm Ayesha Harris. On this episode of NPR's Pop Culture Happy Hour, we're offering up a guide to this year's Oscars. Joining us today are our fellow Pop Culture Happy Hour host, Linda Holmes. Hey, Linda.

Hello.

And Glenn Wheldon. Hey, Glenn. Hey, Ayesha. It's great to be here with all of you to talk about the Oscars for our big Oscar show. We are going to obviously spend some time on Best Picture first, since that's the big ticket award of the night. A couple of big blockbusters earned nominations. Stephen, do you want to set those up for us?

Sure. We've got Wicked, set before the events of The Wizard of Oz. This musical is the origin story of the Wicked Witch of the West. It stars Ariana Grande and Cynthia Arevo.

What a good clip.

Perfect clip. I knew that was going to be the moment that we chose.

Never let it be said that that movie does not end on a strong note. The other big, big, big blockbuster, you've got Dune Part 2. Timothée Chalamet returns as the Treadies, who must now contend with a group called the Harkonnens, who have seized control of the planet.

May thy knife chip and shatter.

I was definitely thankful for those recaps for Dune Part One before I watched this one.

Did you try to read the Wikipedia page about Dune Part One before going into Dune Part Two? Because I was more lost than I was going in.

Try the books. If you think it's daunting, try the books.

Yes, yes. Well, okay, there's also a handful of smaller but no less ambitious movies that were nominated. To some degree, I think this crop, we all really liked and admired quite a few of these. Linda, can you give us the rundown on these films?

Absolutely. Conclave is a fun and twisty look at the secretive process by which a Pope is replaced. Ralph Fienes plays the Cardinal leading the process. If you want to defeat the Desco.

This is a conclave, Aldo.

It's not a war.

It is a war. World's most smooth the segue. In the substance, Demi Moore plays an aerobics instructor who wants to stay in the spotlight, so she turns to a strange black market drug. Remember, there is no she and you.

You are one.

Respect the balance and you won't have any more inconveniences. Yeah, exactly like picking a Pope. It's basically the same thing. It's pretty much something. Nickel Boys is the story of two black boys who form an unshakable bond at a segregated reform school in the Jim Crow South. They're four ways out of Nickel. Serve your time or age out.

Court modern N'Avine, if you believe in miracles. You could die, they could kill you.

You could run.

Those are all very different, but like I said, very ambitious in their own ways. It's nice to see them in the mix here for sure. Then, of course, we've got the more traditional best picture nominees here. Glenn, tell us about this group.

Yeah, we've got one of those biopics. A Complete Unkown. Timothy Chalamai playing a young Bob Dylan. The movie follows his rise in the music world.

How many roads must a man walk down before you call him a man Six.

Six is the answer. We've got the brutalist. Adrian Brodie plays a fictional Jewish-Hungarian architect who relocates to the United States after World War II. I would like to draw something and present it to you. You'd like to win the commission.

For the past several years, we've seen international features nominated in the best picture category. This year, I'm Still Here actually earned a nomination. It's set in 1970's Brazil when it was under a military dictatorship. It tells the story of a mother dealing with the disappearance of her politician husband.. And Finally, we've got two movies that have been making. Lots of waves.

Waves? We're calling them Waves now. Okay.

We'll talk a little bit more about that in a second. But they've been on the scene since way back at Cannes, the Cannes Film Festival last spring. Stephen, what have we got here?

Well, we've got Anora, Sean Baker's movie about an enterprising sex worker who marries the immature son of Russian oligarchs.

So you want to get married to me, Vanya? You want me to be your little wifey?

Yeah.

Yes.

This accent. Yes.

And then there's Emilia Pérez. It is about a trans Mexican cartel boss who disappears from the criminal underworld and eventually reunites with her family after creating a new life as a woman.

Changing the body changes society. Changing society changes the soul.

Changing the soul changes society.

Changing society changes it all. Ufta, okay.

Okay, well, Before we truly dig into who we think will and should win here, it's important for us to briefly touch on the controversies that have arisen during awards season. There's the big one. Very soon after the nominations were announced in January, some old racist and Islamophobic tweets made by Amelia Paris star, Carla Sophia Gascón, resurface by journalist Sarah Hoggy. Now, in those tweets, the actress used slurs and other disparaging language to refer to a wide range of demographic in people, including Muslims, Chinese people, and George Floyd. Gascogne apologized via an official Netflix statement, but continued to discuss it in interviews, and she suggested there was some larger conspiracy at work against her. Now, to a lesser degree, the Amelia Perez team has also faced some flak for using AI cloning to widen Gascon's singing range. Amelia Perez led the Oscars race this year with 13 nominations, but I'm actually curious if you all think that these controversies have impacted this film's chance of taking home best picture. Linda, let's start with you and what you think will win.

Well, I do think that these controversies are going to affect Amelia Perez, and that's partly because I think there are a lot of people who had a lot of misgivings about this movie anyway, and these controversies have given them an opportunity to say, okay, cool, I'm going to rule that one out then. I think if people were more excited about the movie, it probably would have less of an effect. But I do think that is likely to have an effect And that left me predicting that The Brutalist would win Best Picture. It is the most traditional Oscar Z movie remaining. It is a heavy historical drama. It has a really strong lead performance from Adrienne Brodie who's a very beloved awardsy type of actor. The director, braided Corbet, has been widely praised for making it on a relatively small budget compared to its sweep. And despite the fact that there have been a couple of questions raised about use of AI. I think those things are going to fall away, and I think The Brutalist will win.

Just to back up a little bit, in case you haven't heard about the AI controversy around The Brutalist, leads Adrienne Brodie and Felicity Jones were, reportedly, their voices were fed into some AI software. Director of braided Corbe said in a statement that only their Hungarian dialog was enhanced by the AI. But also the film's editor said that generative AI was as inspiration for some of the architectural drawings that are done by Adrian Brodie's character. So, Stephen, what are your thoughts on what will win?

I feel almost word for word the same way Linda does. I feel that the brutalist is going to wind up reaping a lot of the benefit of some of the blowback against Amelia Pettus. It's a great man historical epic running more than three and a half hours in length. What could be more Oscars than that?

Yeah. I mean, one thing I will note is that it's also important to remember remember that the Oscars are ultimately decided through rank choice voting. It doesn't have to be everyone's favorite film. It just has to be enough people's, maybe even second favorite film.

I think that is maybe what hurts Emilia Pettus the most. There may be a passionate contingent putting it first, but there are going to be a lot of people who rank at 10th, not just me, and I'm not even an Oscar voter.

But see, I think the rank choice voting is going to help Anora. I I think a lot of people feel very favorably disposed toward that film. If they don't rank it first, they're going to rank it second or third. I think the buzz around Anora has been growing. I think this is a real chance for a scrappy little movie like Anora to take it home.

Yeah, and that's where you and I align, Glenn. I also think Anora is going to win. It won the Producers' Guild of America Awards. And since 2010, every winner of the PGA Award has also won best picture with three exceptions. And then there was also one year where there was a tie between Gravity and 12 Years of Slave, 12 Years of Slave, we ended up winning the Oscar. I feel like the odds were in Anora's favor, but we shall see. We all said who we think will win, but who do we think should win? For me, I think Anora should win. I think it is, to me, the correct choice, in part because it subverts expectations around genre. You think it's going to be some crime movie, but it's also a family comedy and a screwball comedy and a drama. It just feels like a movie that's of the moment in a way that most of the other films in this pack do not land for me. It normalizes this depiction of sex work. It also has this very matter of fact take on capitalism that I don't think is either subtle, but it's not preachy either.

It's just very resonant.

You just got me piggybacking off people who share my opinions. Now, there are several other films in this field that I really dearly love, and I could make a case for Conclave. I could strangely make a case for the Substance. In spite of some plot issues that I had with it, a movie that has really stuck with me, and I suspect will continue to stick with me. But Anora, to me, is made with such verve. For me, it just felt like such a victory lap for Sean Baker, who's been making great movies for a long time now without necessarily a ton of major awards consideration. For me, this is a film that I really, really dug, and it's not, again, I'm going to harping on this point, it's not a typical Oscar movie.

I don't know.

Well, Linda, I know you were not a huge fan of this, and we don't have to get into why. Also, I love that we have different opinions on this show. I am curious as to what you think should win.

I ultimately went with Nickel Boys. It's the one that I thought was the most emotionally rich and satisfying. It's also the one that I think was the most innovative in terms of filmmaking. People have talked a lot about the first person point of view camera work here from the director, Ramel Ross. I think that's really interesting. I think there are some very interesting decisions about what to give away and what to withhold. I think he got some really wonderful work out of the actors in this film. If we're going to have a big party where we honor people making movies, I want it to be something like this. For me, everything else, there was some reason not to pick it, whether it was controversy or... For me, the Nora thing of sex workers who turn out to just want to be hugged, to me, is not that interesting and actually is a pretty familiar trope from film. This is what I picked. I picked Nickel Boys.

As did I. I thought I was going to be out here all alone, but I join you, Linda. I I think I'd like to see the Academy rewarding any innovation, any tweaking of the format. It's not just that it's told through the character's eyes. The use of that could have easily been just a distracting gimmick, but it's used so smartly to serve the story and to serve the emotions of the story. Not for nothing, this film has a closing montage that's like 5, 10 minutes long that also could have been confusing, disorienting, but the director, Ramel Ross, is going back to his experimental film roots. That montage took you by the hand. It guided you along in such a confident and assured way. You knew exactly what was happening, which is yet another reason the fact that we didn't get a nomination for directing or cinematography or editing. Cinematography? Yeah.

How did not get nominated for cinematography?

What are we awarding here? Outstanding achievement of these 10 films. This is the outstanding achievement.

I would be so happy to see this when it has stayed with me months later. I think it's just such a beautiful film that I need to rewatch. I definitely need to rewatch, and I think it rewards rewatch. We should also note that Nickel Boys is actually released by Amazon MGM Studios, and Amazon supports NPR and paste and distribute some of our content.

You're listening to the Sunday Story. More Oscar predictions when we come back.

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We're back with the Sunday story from Up First as we hear more Oscar predictions from the team over at Pop Culture Happy Hour.

So Another note I want to make is that we are going to be making these next predictions before the Screen actor guild awards have come out at the time of this recording. So ordinarily, as I did with the best picture, I would have dug into my back and looked, Oh, who won SAG Awards? That would have helped inform my opinions here.

We're just out here being brave. That's all.

We're being brave. We're out here naked. Just sheets to the wind.

We're doing that. How will we ever make an accurate prediction from this field? I I have no idea.

Let's move on to the acting categories, and let's start with the lead actress category. Stephen, who is nominated here?

Cynthia Arevo for Wicked. Arevo plays Elphaba in this origin story about the Wicked Witch of the West.

Sorry, you just got it every time.

Fernanda Torres for I'm Still Here. Torres plays a mother, an activist whose life is upturned when her politician husband goes missing during the military dictatorship in Brazil. Mikey Madison for Anora. Madison plays a New York sex worker who marries the son of Russian oligarchs. Carla Sofia Gascón for Amelia Pérez. Gascón plays the titular Amelia Pérez, a trans cartel leader who leaves the criminal underworld to begin a new life. She's the first openly trans actress or actor of any gender nominated in an acting category. Then we've got the presumed front runner Ayesha, I don't think you need the SAG Awards to predict this one. Demi Moore for The Substance, Damemore plays a TV aerobics instructor who turns to a mysterious black market drug to stay young.

I need you because I hate myself.

You got to get ready. It's our big night.

Come on, they're going to love you so much.

All right, and I'm pretty sure that we all think Demi Moore is going to walk away with this award. Linda, why do you think she'll win?

Well, I mean, some of it is just forecasting based on awards already won and critical reaction already received. But also, I think she has exactly the story that often does well at the Oscars. Demi Moore has been around for a really long time. She talked about this at the Golden Globes. She was originally pigeonholed as a pop movie actress, as she put it, a popcorn actress. I think she's been really good in a number of different things for a long time, but not the kinds of things that necessarily got her awards recognition. First of all, people tend to think it's very brave when you go through some body transformation and do something that looks ugly and gross, especially if you are a woman who came up as a conventionally beautiful woman. So that tends to weigh in her favor. I also think she's just one of those people who's worked with a gazillion people over the course of her career who all seem to have a reasonable amount of affection for her. She doesn't seem to be somebody who has, for some reason, made enemies in her long time in Hollywood would. Sometimes that really helps just to have been around forever acting with a ton of people, working in a ton of projects.

I think that's going to do it. I think she will win.

If you're looking for any dark horse in this race in terms of somebody who has the potential to win, I wouldn't 100% rule out Fernanda Torres, who gives a pretty magnificent performance in I'm Still Here, who really carries that film, and who is, again, a veteran actress who has done a ton great work. I don't think she will win against Demi Moore, but this is definitely one of the most heralded performances of the year and one that I could see slipping through.

Well, and I do want to add, it's easy now to look at this and be like, Oh, yeah, it's going to be Demi Moore, obviously ho-hum. But go back to reading this script, right? Go back to the moment when this script shows up. You look at it and it's like, I mean, now it feels like she's just... Demi Moore is going to cakewalk to the best actress Oscar for this horror movie in which she winds up as a blob of tissue by the end of it.

So Katherine Hepburn did it.

The likelihood of getting recognized for horror, the likelihood of getting recognized for something as strange as this movie is, this is not something you would take thinking like, I'm going to cakewalk to an Oscar for playing this part.

Now, Glenn, who do you think should win the award? I think I have a sense of who you're thinking here.

Yeah, it's to me. It's will and should. I mean, for all the reasons we've talked about. Plus, it's the only shot this very weird movie has at a major award, one of the big five. So, yeah, let's give it.

I absolutely think she's deserving, and I will be thrilled if she wins. However, in this category, I decided to go with Cynthia Arrivo, and I'll tell you why. Yeah, I get that. Wicked has fallen out of most of the major Oscar conversations at this point in its life. And I think that's a shame because I don't think it's a perfect movie. I think a lot of its charm comes from the source material and the performances. But to me, the last 15 to 20 minutes of that film, which include, obviously Defying Gravity, which obviously became immediately a meme and a TikTok sound. There were things of like a dog on a broomstick going up into the sky with It's me. I think that sequence is good enough that that is what a movie star who is a good actor is supposed to do. When you put on top of it the fact that I think it is a hell of a performance of a really good song, what am I asking for? What am I asking people for, if not this? What am I rewarding, if not this? I picked Cynthia Riva. I have no regrets.

None at all. I love it. I love that. Solid pick. Steven, who do you think should win?

I went with Mikey Madison for Anora. I think the movie falls apart if she doesn't give a great performance. I think she manages to bring just huge huge amounts of charisma and energy. This performance could so easily have dipped into caricature, and maybe Linda thinks it did dip into caricature. I don't know. But I really found this to be just a very vibrant and committed performance from somebody I can't wait to see in more movies.

No, I think she's wonderful. I think she is absolutely wonderful. I think the charisma that you talk about is 100% real. My issue is with the ending. I think the ending sells out the character and sells out what the movie was doing at the beginning, but it's only the ending that irritated me.

I get that. Yeah, I get that. I mean, Steven, you and I are aligned. I also would really love to see Mikey Madison take this home. I've been a huge fan of hers ever since she was in Better Things, the great Pamela Adlon show as one of her daughters. I've seen some criticisms of the film as being a movie where we don't learn much about the Mikey Madison character and that she's just this one-note sex worker. I disagree with that hard. I think that just because we don't learn every single detail about her backstory, that doesn't mean that she's not a fully realized character. I think that there are just these so many great moments and interactions that hint at both her social class, her status in life. I think the ending actually is one of the great endings. But look, we're not here to deliberate that. I'm just here to say that I loved Mikey Madison. Look, I'd be happy if Cynthia Irrival one. I'd also be happy if Demi Moore one.

I probably had my Anora expectations raised too high. That's probably part of what happened.

That's also possible. All right, well, let's move on to the nominations for actor in a leading role. Glenn, why don't you set that up for us?

Sure. We've got Coleman Domingo for Sing-Sing. Domingo plays an incarcerated man who finds purpose by acting in a theater troupe. We've got Ralph Fines for Conclave. Fines plays the Cardinal, who is managing the process of finding a new Pope. We've got Sebastian Stan for The Apprentice. Stan plays a young Donald Trump, establishing his career in real estate and his relationship with the attorney Roy Cohn. Then we have the two presumed front runners, Adrian Brody, as we've talked about for The Brutalist. Brody plays a visionary Hungarian architect who moves to America to rebuild his life after World War II. And Timothée Chalamey for a complete unknown, he plays Bob Dylan.

All right. I'm going to go first here because I guess I'm the only one who is convinced that Timothy is probably going to pull off a Rami Malik here. I was looking at this entire crop of nominees, and unlike the best actress category, there's not really any that are transformative in the traditional way. In the Gary Oldman as Winston Churchill. Or the Whale, Brenda, Fraser, that thing. Dicaprio and the Revenant. That's not happening here. I think for me, we can never underestimate the enthusiasm of the Academy's boomer and raquest membership, as well as its tendency to love actors who play real people. Again, Rami Malik in Bohemian Rhaps, Will Smith in King Richard, Gary Oldman, Kylian Murphy, Daniel Day-Lewis, Colin Firth, on and on and on. Over the last 15, 20 years, a lot of the winners in this category have been playing real people. I don't know if the Dylan cosplay on SNL hurt or helped Shalway's chances. I think maybe it's possible they just neutralized them. I feel as though Timothée has a very good shot, and I would not be surprised to see him lined up with the Oscar.

I think one thing I would add to that is that he has been campaigning his rear-end off for months and months, and that does come into play. I mean, you talked about SNL where he appeared on SNL as the host and the musical guest performing Dylan songs. He is really trying to win this award, and that does factor in.

But for him to win, he would have to escape the Gravity well of Adrian Brodie in the Brutalist, which is the uber-traditional choice. You watch that movie, and his performance is a series of Oscar clips. You keep waiting for them to cut away to him sitting in the audience and people clapping around it. It's impressive, but it's the default choice.

Listen, I like little Timmy. I think if Little Timmy is going to win an Oscar this year for either of the two snotty little megalomaniacs that he played in movies this year, it's obviously it will be this one. Sunsets in seagles, smell of buttercups.

Your songs are like an oil painting at the dentist's office.

You're a nice example. I think he plays a pretty good snotty megalomaniac, but I do think that the movie is not good enough. And I think the movie itself has too many weaknesses. But I agree with Glenn that the Brody performance is more traditionally Oscar-y. I think the Academy loves him. That's the direction I think they're going to go.

I'm the only one here. I'm standing alone here on my club Shalameh boat.

Look, I think Timothée Chalameh is going to win an Oscar at some point. I'm not sure if it's for this film. I'm a little higher on this film than Linda is. I really love, really, all three of the central performances in this film. For me, I mean, Adrian Brody, it is a great Oscar-winning performance. He's terrific in it. Even if I think that film careened off the rails in that second half, his performance is so solid at the center of it that it never crashes into the ditch.

Steven, we are going to have to have a beer sometime and discuss how you are anti-traditional Oscar movies and pro a complete unknown.

Thank you. I have been trying to make these things connect for ever since I found out how much he likes this very boring movie.

But we're going to have a beer. It's not for today. Not We're going to have a beer and have it out.

There's not as much contradiction there as he thinks.

Mystified.

I think Brody will and should, but I do want to put in a word for that Coleman Domingo performance, which I think is magnificent in Sing-Sing, a movie I would have loved to have seen in the best picture field. I think it's It's a terrific performance and a very, very good movie.

Well, Steven, you're happy because I picked Coleman Domingo for Should-win. I think he makes that film a hell of a lot more compelling than it could have been. On paper, after all, it is, let's face it, a feel-good movie about the carceral state. I just get itchy whenever there's any narrative, any marginalized group, and the narrative is, well, at least they have Shakespeare. That rubs me the wrong way.

I don't think that's what that movie does.

No, not at all.

He is the reason that a film that could been about this very tidy neoliberal uplift has any real grit in the gears at all. He's the thing that makes it work.

I just want to point out they're not staging Hamlet. They're staging their own weirdo show that has a little tiny smidgen.

There's mummies, there's time traveling.

You're missing the point. Hamlet is a small thing. It's not that they're staging Hamlet.

Hamlet is just a tiny part of that bonkers production.

It also has Freddy Kruger.

I also chose Coleman Domingo.

I think this is a spectacular performance. First of all, I think he's He's possibly our most charismatic and reliable actor working right now for me.

I would not disagree with that.

He is perhaps the actor most able to elevate literally anything, but I don't actually think he has to here because I think this is a wonderful film. I will also say we talk a lot about what I would consider to be like side factors that affect not wanting to vote for things, whether it's AI or it's controversy or something like that. I will freely admit there are some side factors here that make me root for this film, including a lot of the actors in it are, in fact, formerly incarcerated people who were part of this program, some of whom worked on the story. They also had a really interesting, and I encourage you to read about this, I won't explain the whole thing, but a really interesting compensation scheme in which everybody got paid the same to work on the film, no matter who they were. So I love this movie. It should have been nominated for Best Picture. I rate that it wasn't. And Colman Domingo rules and is king forever. Yeah.

Look, in a just world, Clarence Maclin, who is one of the other performers in this movie and a formerly incarcerated person who contributed to the storytelling of this film, would have also been up here in this category because he, to me, gives just as good of a performance. But I am glad that Colmen Domingo is here, and I am with you both, Glenn and Linda, that I think he should win. It sounds like Glenn, Linda, and I are for Coleman Domingo.

Say it You're right.

You've actually fully talked me into this. I was on the fence.

Unanimous. Pro Coleman Domingo, bullying for the win.

No, you know what? If you're going to bully me in any direction, bully me in the direction of Coleman Domingo, who's genuinely one of the best actors in the world.

A late stage change in the numbers. Four for Coleman Domingo.

Deathbed conversion.

That brings us to the end of this big Oscars extravaganza show, Glenn Weldon, Steven Thompson, and Linda Holmes. Thanks so for being here. We all owe each other beers at this point. Oh, absolutely. We'll make it happen.

Absolutely. Thank you, Ayesha.

Thank you.

Beers and fights. Thank you, friend.

If you'd like to hear more discussion about this year's Oscars, check out the full episode on the Pop Culture Happy Hour podcast, available wherever you get your podcast. This episode was produced by Liz Metzger and Andrew Mambo. It was edited by Jessica Reedy and Jenny Schmidt. The Sunday Story team includes Justine Yann and Lianna Semstrom. Irene Nguji is our executive producer. Up first, we'll be back tomorrow with all the news you need to start your week. Until then, have a great rest of your weekend.

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