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This is the story of eight women all killed and their bodies disposed of in and around the small town of Jennings, Louisiana, between the years of 2005 and 2009, local law enforcement said their deaths were the result of their high risk lifestyles. Their cases remain unsolved. This is the story of unanswered questions and families looking for answers and closure. This is the Swedien, a project season one, the Jennings Ave. You can listen anywhere you listen to podcasts.


You can also follow the podcast on Facebook and Instagram as well at Swedien. A project. Voices for Justice is a podcast that uses adult language and discusses sensitive and potentially triggering topics including violence, abuse and murder.


This podcast may not be appropriate for younger audiences. All parties are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Some names have been changed or omitted per their request or for safety purposes. Listener discretion is advised. My name is Sarah Turney and this is Voices for Justice. Like I mentioned in the last episode, the official timeline of Alissa's case history is currently paused. There is so much that I want to go into and that I will eventually go into.


But as the state is still evaluating Alissa's case, I decided to pause the timeline because I never want this podcast to negatively affect Alissa's case. And I'm honestly not sure what going into all of the insanity that has happened over these past 18 months will do. So to be safe, I'm holding off for now, but trust me, you will hear about it eventually. But I have invited a few experts in their respective fields to come on the podcast to discuss Alissa's case and help give us some insight that I'm not able to provide in this episode.


You are going to hear my conversation with Todd McComas. Todd was in law enforcement for 21 years and for 19 of those 21 years, he was actually a detective with the Indiana State Police. Todd hosts his own podcast called Ten Forty One with Todd McComas. And a few months ago, he asked me to be on his show to discuss Alissa's case. He was stunned, confused and upset, like I imagine so many of you are after hearing it all.


And since the Phoenix police have made it clear that they don't wish to participate in any media opportunities I have asked them to be involved in, I thought I would invite Todd on to give his perspective on Alissa's case. And he has a lot to say. He even has a special message just for the Phoenix Police Department.


If you have not listened to the first 24 episodes of this podcast explaining the timeline of Wallace's case, I highly recommend you do or else you won't understand a lot of what we talk about in this interview. But without further introduction, here is my conversation with retired Detective Todd McComas. So today, I have Todd Michaelmas with us. Welcome. Hey, thanks for having me, Sarah.


Of course, for our listeners, can you just go into a little bit of your background?


Sure. I'm a retired detective from the Indiana State Police. I spent 19 and a half years of that 21 years as a detective. So I was not a uniformed trooper very long. So in being a detective, I was a general crimes detective for several years where I discovered a geographical area and I worked kind of anything from check fraud to murder within that area. And then I then moved to an undercover position where I worked in the drug enforcement section.


And then I did some time in the tech unit there. I ran the wiretap system. I was the wiretap analyst, and I ended my career tracking fugitives by their cell phones for the electronic surveillance unit. You have done so much that was honestly so cool. Do you have a favorite of what you've done? I think being undercover was my favorite. And you have to judge that by it hit me. I did it at the right age. Right.


So you have a you have a window there where you just get too old for it. You know, people are like you don't look like somebody who tweaks on meth. You know, you look like you take care of yourself too much. So that's you have a shorter, shorter window for that. But I enjoyed that very much. I mean, I liked the outside the box creative thinking that's required. And I think that made me an even better detective going forward.


Yeah, that makes total sense, and to be honest, when we got connected for your podcast 10, 2001 with Todd McComas, I was super excited. I hadn't really been reached out to by a former law enforcement before. So first of all, thank you. And second, I'm just so excited to have you here. So I think first, I just like to ask kind of your overall feelings of Alissa's case. I know that you're pretty familiar with it.


So, yeah, I would just love to get those feelings from you.


Well, first of all, I mean, my heart goes out to you and your family because that's. It's just tough, you know, this is, what, 2001? Yeah, yeah, so I mean, I'm 19 years into this and there's really been no resolution at all. I mean, that's that's tragic. Beyond the tragedy of her disappearance and from what from talking to you and listening to especially the last episode, I am a bit perplexed about how that agency is handling the investigation.


I have a lot of questions that I would like to ask them that granted, you know, I'm mostly getting your side of this and but I did hear the audio. And, boy, I would really like to sit down and speak with the commander of that unit like you got to and ask her some questions myself, because right now it seems like there there's things that could still be worked on. And it appears from that conversation that she was basically telling you that were done until someone comes forward with something new or we find Elysa.


Yeah, I mean, that's exactly how I felt after that meeting, and I do have to say for the record that she's actually not the commander anymore and I can't really speak as to why that happened or what happened, but it was quite interesting to me. But, yeah, you know, since you brought it up, I would love to just get your overall feelings on that recording. Like, do you think that that was appropriate? You know, I went to the chief of police after 40 something days of no response and the chief of police, his office, you know, gave me this woman to meet with basically as their answer to all of my problems.


And that recording is what resulted from that. So, I mean, do you feel that that was the right course of action or. I just I don't understand how me going to the chief of police resulted in that meeting.


Well, first of all, it should not require you having to request a meeting through the chief of police to be able to speak to someone involved with the investigation. I mean, that's that's ridiculous to me. That just means that no one involved with the investigation planned on meeting with you if they were not made to do so.


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Yeah, fair enough, and specifically, you know, in that meeting, she she continued to tell me that my point of contact was another officer that wasn't there. Do you have any insight as to why they may not invite that lead investigator, analyst, this case to this meeting about about the case? Again, that's very unusual. I mean, that's a level of micromanagement that would be concerning to me when I worked the cases, you know, the lead investigator was the point of contact for the family and everyone else.


I mean, he's he or she is the person managing the case. The that person's supervisor may be in charge of supervising that detective and helping manage that detective's management of the cases, but they're not managing that case, if that makes sense. So I don't know why a person who's going to have less of an intimate connection with the case is your point of contact. That's like entering a third party mediator, which always slows things down because now you might ask questions and now this sergeant or supervisor is going to have to be like, well, you know, I don't know what he's done so far with that.


So let me get with him and then I'll get back to you. Why are you not speaking with the person who's doing the work? That makes no sense. Yeah, I was honestly so confused by it, and in my opinion, I felt like that meeting was very much just kind of like a PR move to almost like save face. They didn't really tell me anything new. She didn't seem super familiar with the case. And, you know, and I don't want to pick apart everything that they did in there.


It's really not my prerogative on this podcast. But I just have honestly so many questions, like there was an incident in which we're talking about, you know, finding Alice's body, in which I know that you have your opinions on that as well. But, you know, she I bring up it doesn't center California and she immediately tells me that it's too vast and too large to search. And then we're in that same like a line of speaking, if you will.


It's really the same train of thought. And when I say that they themselves, the Phoenix Police Department went on ABC 20/20 and said that they would like to look in Desert Center, California. She goes Desert Center, California, as if she didn't even know what it was when 30 seconds earlier she told me it was too vast to search. Like, I don't know if that was just a slip or I mean, if they were intentionally trying to just, I don't know, kind of get me off their backs.


Yeah. When I listen to it, I got the the immediate impression that she basically attended a quick briefing with the investigators. Like I tell me what's going on with the case, what's what's the latest and greatest so that I can go in knowledgeable to this meeting. And a quick briefing obviously is no substitute for having been working the case for years. So it definitely screamed as if she did not have a great deal of knowledge about the case. And here's here's another thing to like, sir, when I understand now.


I don't know where you were as a person in media in June of 2019. The podcast did not exist yet, correct? So it was January of 2013 and know the podcast didn't exist, I mean, when I say I had 90000 signatures and five million media impressions, that's nothing compared to what I have today. I mean, tick talk alone for the last 30 days has had like something like 80 million views. So I was nowhere near where I am today in that meeting.


OK, because the reason I ask that is there is many times they they have public information officers, we call them peers. And sometimes when it came to talking to the media, a large agency would defer that to the public information officer because that's their profession. They're trained to speak to the media and basically not screw up, not not release anything that shouldn't and yada, yada, yada. So I wondered when that was that meeting was taking place, if they were, like, considering you.


Yes. Well, she is the sister. She is a surviving family member. However, she's also a person in the media. And we're just afraid that this lead investigator is going to screw up and say something that they shouldn't. So do you think any of that came into play personally or do you think it was just a matter of media wise? They wouldn't have considered you a person of the media yet? At that point, I don't think so, I wasn't making my own content, I was very much just following their mission from 2017 where they told me to get media, which I think is a perfect segue into that topic.


But, yeah, I mean, I was literally just following their directive. And then in this meeting, they're like, well, media isn't the answer. So it's so confusing.


It is. And so that being the case, then this is just my hunch. Obviously, I can't speak for you know, I can't speak intelligently about what a person's state of mind was because I'm not a person. But I've been around the block. Right. I've been around a lot of cops, been around a lot of similar situations as the one that you recorded.


And I think it's quite possible that the lead investigator, for whatever reason, maybe was like, listen, I'm tired of communicating with their attorney. You know, she's emailing me, you know, I'm just I just I just don't want to mess with it anymore. And then now the supervisor was like, well, OK, then I'll handle it and we'll just have her deal with me from now on. Now, that's unacceptable.


If that happened, right, you are a surviving family member. You are as important a person through the investigation as anyone. And that just can't happen, that this is part of the job. And if you're a person who is uncomfortable carrying, you know, becoming very familiar and almost friendly with the victim's family, then you were in the wrong line of work. Go back to the street and put on a uniform and just write tickets for a living.


Don't put yourself in a position where your job requires you to have intimate contact with surviving members of your victim's family, because that is as important a part of your job as anything else. I honestly love that you say that, and to be fair, I feel like the two detectives that were on Melissa's case for 10 years were those people for me, they were so caring and so kind, you know, like I interviewed one of them for my college newspaper.


We would talk, you know, say like Happy Thanksgiving. They would ask how I'm doing in school. They were just so kind and compassionate. And I didn't get that from a single officer since they've been off the case. And I have to I don't know, I go back and forth about them telling me to get media. Sometimes I think they were trying to do me an extreme kindness because it came from one of those detectives, Detective Stewart, summer shoe, that was on the case for ten years.


You know, he basically said, sorry, I can't help you. Your best chance is getting media exposure. And I go back and forth, you know, was that a kindness or was that kind of like a fool's errand? Because there are so many people that try to get media exposure for these cases. And I feel like it's almost like winning the lottery. What's happened to me? So, yeah, I go back and forth about what their intentions were with telling me to get media, because I always want to give especially those two detectives the benefit of the doubt.


But maybe maybe I'm wrong.


Yeah, I'd like to give the benefit of the doubt, especially if you were happy with them up to that point. I mean, maybe it could just be very possible that they realized the power of media and especially podcasting, true crime, podcasting and, you know, was blown up and cases are being solved because of it. So it's quite possible that they were like frustrated themselves. And, you know, like Sarah, we wish we could do more for you right now.


And we can't maybe consider doing this because good things are happening in the world because of that media. So give it a shot. I'm hoping that to give, you know, these officers the benefit of the doubt because you seemed happy with them up until that point. I'm hoping that they just realized that media is a powerful tool and that they've seen success from True Crime podcast in helping getting cases solved or are bringing in tips that help solve a case.


And, you know, maybe they had just honestly reached a point where they were they felt bad because they couldn't do more for you and that this was like, just try this. You know, it can't hurt, but it certainly could help. And that really is what I hope, honestly, the only thing that confuses me about that theory is that when I would go to them and say, hey, I have this, you know, opportunity or where you come to me with or come with me to crime con, they always said no.


Every single thing was known, especially with crime con. They they said that they thought it was the wrong audience for Alice's case and that really, really stunned me. I would have thought when they said get media and I came to them and said, oh great, I have media. They're asking if you'll say something that they would say yes, but they have not said yes to a single opportunity. I have presented them. So the reason for not going was that they just didn't think it was right.


Audience There was never them saying, well, I ran it by my supervisor and they won't let me do that. So it's twofold, right? So I emailed Detective Somerset, which again, is that guy that was on the case for 10 years that I trusted very much, and he responded and said, we don't think it's the right audience. It's also out of state I've never been comfortable speaking about in this case. And I recommended that the other detective that was on the case, Detective Anderson, did it.


And I said, you know, I'm sorry, but I have to disagree. I think it's the exact right audience. And essentially, they told me to go to their their media relations people in which I did. And then it was further declined from there.


I would guess that that's just cops being scared because they're not familiar with crime gone and what goes on there. And they're scared of being exposed. I mean, not because they're trying to hide something by being exposed, like they're not going to be good talking in front of those people. You know, but here's the thing, Sara. Like. You know, I just I just covered a case on my podcast, and it was the actual, you know, investigating officer, the guy heading the case who came on my podcast to tell of it.


It wasn't a surviving family member. Now, to me, if you're a police officer and you want really want the word to get out, you in some way would want to control the narrative. And that's why I welcomed that officer to my show. And he was very good at what he does. He also he's a deputy chief. He also handles a lot of their public information stuff. So he's he's talked on a microphone before, but he's also an investigator and he runs the Criminal Investigations Division.


So he was very knowledgeable about the case and he wanted to make sure that it got out there and that, you know, also that there might be information that needs protected that doesn't get released. So he could control that as well. And to me, that's the trade off. Right. We need the investigator to get involved, to go on shows with you, if need be, and give the things that the police department know and that they think will be helpful to be released and then also make sure that certain information is protected, if that's important, to just simply not participate.


To me, that means you're losing control.


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No, and that makes total sense. Yeah, I mean, I just have to assume that maybe this isn't a case that they are so proud of, that they would like to go on media and talk about it because they they did media in the past. They've done ABC 20/20. They did another podcast. But that's really it besides, you know, some local news articles and whatnot. So all I can think is that at a certain point this became a case that they weren't proud of and didn't want to speak about.


Yeah, I would guess you're correct, I mean, just knowing what I know of it, it's if I was a member of that team, I wouldn't be particularly proud of the progress. And, you know, sometimes even if things are outside of your control and just not progressing because of no fault to anyone, you shouldn't be proud of that either. Right. So I think I think you're right. Now, here's here's one concern that I have in that recording.


When you guys were speaking at one point, you mentioned, you know, that no one had followed up on the information you provided about this party that Elyssa was to attend either that night or the next day. And of course, she didn't arrive. And then they acted as if they were unaware of that information, probably because they're not the the lead investigator who you sent the information to. But then they said, well, you know, if we did go check up on that and talk to some of those people, it's not going to help your Elissa's case, Sarah.


And to me, it blew me away. I'm like, did you really just say that out loud? And the reason I'm concerned about that is you have no idea if one of those people has important information or not because they've not been talked to. You know, sometimes the most valuable information or the best leads come from the most unexpected sources. And they know that if they've been in law enforcement for any amount of time. So I just thought it sounded bad.


And from an inside perspective, it was worse than that. I mean, it was downright shitty. Like, that's that's that's a person speaking from an ignorant position. And I was uncomfortable with it. Yeah, I mean, you can hear it, I am also blown away when I hear that, I think I just go, OK, like I literally don't know what to say to them when they say that to me, because I'm here, I am genuinely trying to present new leads to them and they just literally won't accept them.


And although, you know, it may be unlikely that this would change anything in the case, like if they could just speak to one person at that party, what if she showed up there? You know what I mean? Like, what if we could eliminate my father as a suspect because she showed up at that party that night? As much as I don't believe that's what happened, I feel like as law enforcement, that is something you should pursue because that might literally eliminate a person of interest.


Absolutely, I mean, you nailed it. Yes, it's unlikely that that's going to glean any information that's going to solve this case, but unlikely is way different than just flat out telling you that's not going to help your case. That's a that's an answer that's speaking in absolute terms. And that's never the case. I mean, there are people the countless cases have been solved because some person that they for some reason did not talk to years before finally gets talked to by a new detective or whatever.


And they were like, well, you know, I've been battling for years on whether or not I should say something about this. And they just revealed they dropped this bombshell. And every cop knows that's a possibility. Your only job at this point with a case that's this old is to follow leads. 90 some percent of them are going to be bullshit. But you just keep doing it because you know that sooner or later you're going to find someone or something that is important.


Absolutely, I mean, they were sitting there saying we need new leads on, like here it is, and they're like, great, never mind. No, it won't do anything, actually. Yeah, that's in you know, I think when you're on my podcast, I told you how much I detest lazy police work, and that's just downright being lazy.


And again, I'm not trying to judge either of those officers, their character, just judging the the the responses they gave to your questions and the information that they were providing you. And I mean, I heard it and the things that were being said weren't good. Some things they said obviously are truthful, that they need more evidence. They need a witness to come forward that has valuable information. Yes, that's very true. But a lot of times those people aren't just going to walk in to your police station and say, attention, everyone.


I have some very important information about the disappearance of this attorney. A lot of times you're going to have to go beat the street and shake some bushes and find those people. Oh, absolutely, and I think that was my number one, you know, concern in that meeting was like, you guys are just waiting for leads to fall in your lap. You're waiting for a miracle to happen. And that's just not how I see this being resolved, especially with no type of silent witness campaign, no type of reward offered for information.


They were basically telling me, we will sit here and accept leads and you need to accept that and go away. That's what I heard, sir. That's what I heard and I have a question for you, if that's OK. Of course. Currently, and I probably should know, the answer is Alissa's investigation status as a missing persons case or as a death investigation. So I believe I only have the case record until 2017, but it did evolve from runaway to missing person to, I believe, something along the lines of missing persons suspected homicide.


OK, OK. So has your sister been declared dead at this point? No, I have never gotten her legally declared dead. OK. Is that something you plan to pursue?


So if I go forward with a wrongful death suit against my father, then that is something I will pursue. But as far as I know and please correct me if I'm wrong, I don't know if there's that much of an advantage to doing that. But if you tell me that there is, I will rush out and make that happen. I'll say this.


I think it's worth speaking to an attorney about because that's who you would use to to file that. And I think it would be worth definitely speaking to an attorney that's that's knowledgeable in this area and ask them what the benefits are. I mean, part of it obviously is at what point? Are you going to be ready to hold a memorial or a vigil for for her and and kind of declare her dead so that it's official in your mind and with the rest of the family?


That's probably the most important thing. It's like a decision you'll have to make. Not saying that that means you give up that this means to me, this is now we're looking for who caused her death. We're not looking for. That's not the primary focus now of the investigation, which when you say it's a missing persons case, that's what you're saying. This is a case that exists solely for finding this person. Now, if it's a death investigation, now we're trying to find out how she died and who's responsible for it.


OK, I mean, yeah, that makes sense, I'm happy to do that. I will definitely look into attorneys to see if it will benefit the case. And yeah, I mean, doing a memorial for Elyssa is something I've thought about for 19 years. Like I've done things, you know, personally for my own comfort, you know, small things at home, nothing large, nothing with other people. But yeah, I think it's definitely an avenue I should explore.


I think it's, you know, obviously hard to explore. And I think I've been putting it off until somebody tells me I have to just because it it hurts so much.


Yeah. And that's you know, that's something I think you need to to talk with some people about first, obviously. But it would be interesting to hear what an attorney would say, you know, in regards of, you know, this would help or this wouldn't. And this is why, because I'm not an attorney.


I just know that, you know, nineteen years. Right. So if Elysa would have went missing as an adult, say, as a 30 year old person, then. Pronouncing that person dead happens a lot quicker, usually, right, because now you can show a pattern of life change. They have a debit card that's not being used in the last 18 months. They've not used any of their credit cards. You know, there's been no digital footprint.


All of this person, their phone powered off at this day. And it's never been powered back on all these things that they can use as evidence to get someone declared dead. Now, usually as an adult person, there are other benefits as involved as well, like maybe life insurance or things, you know, that the family needs. So it is a little different. And that's just I was a little curious about how you thought about it and whether or not you had spoken to an attorney about it.


Oh, sure, no, and it gets brought up a lot. I think it's something that I definitely need to explore further and just kind of, I guess, be more open to. And and, you know, as as terrible as this sounds, kind of put my feelings aside and do what's smartest for the case. It's just one of those things that I've been really hesitant to touch unless I have to. But no, that's really great advice and I appreciate it.


And I know the officers you were speaking to in that meeting are command personnel. So they're being very careful.


But it's you know, it was when I was listening to it, that's what made me think to ask you that question, because it was like no one in the room was like your sister's dead, you know, and we're sorry. Some foul play has occurred and we're trying to help you figure that there was I was just I was like, wow, this is a still like well, we're just hoping Alissa shows up or that we find her somewhere like that seemed more of the focus than on their side then.


You know, we need to find a way to get your father to admit to this.


I agree, but she does the commander, Cristina Gonzalez, does say at one point, you know, it's hard to hear in the audio, but she says, you know, for the record, I'd like to see him tried to. OK, good, I'm sorry I missed that, so it's well, that's good to hear and I, I think in in that makes sense to me because I think maybe you said something back like, OK, so how are we going to do that or what are your plans to make that happen?


Which is a great question. I mean, there's clearly when you talk to me on my podcast and you made me aware of this contract that was presented by your father just to show everybody, hey, my daughter signed this contract that, you know, basically says that I was not having sex with her. And to me right there like that one document is every cop that sees that has to know on the back of their mind this guy did it.


I mean, that's that's just simply put, that is the most telling thing I've ever heard.


I know. And I know it's not direct evidence, but it causes you to know what happened.


Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Those contracts for me are so insane. And like you said, just so telling. And it's so confusing to me. I mean, while we're kind of on that subject of my father, you know, kind of outing himself to police, if you will, you know, he faxed that contract one of the contracts, I should say, to the police himself. But in addition to that, about a year before Elyssa went missing, I think it was about a year he called the police department himself and said that, you know, his daughter's out of control and that she's lying about him and that, you know, he's asking her to be a rice arrested for being bisexual.


Like in you know, with your experience in law enforcement, what would a procedure be when you receive a call like that? Because in my mind, I don't understand why officers didn't hear that insanity and say maybe we should check this out or do a house visit or something.


Absolutely, I mean, I would have I would have tried to get him to come there and speak in person and see, you know, what's going on, first of all.


Secondly, this is just it's really weird. So this is a symptom of a bigger problem. That's why that's why that's the way I would interpret it immediately. And I want to know what that bigger problem is. Right. So I would have wanted to speak with him in person and, you know, allow him to feel that. I believe what he's saying. That's the best way to to get them talking. Right. And then I would have let him talk his way, hopefully into a corner.


And then it could be like, ah, wait a minute. This is a right now, let's see what's really going on. Thank you. That is just honestly gives me so much for my peace of mind, because I want to believe that there are officer officers like you that care that much. And when I heard that he made all these calls to police talking about these issues, I was stunned that no one followed up on it.


And when did those occur again in relation to her disappearance? Yeah, I have to look back at the timeline, but I think it was a year prior because he was also calling Child Protective Services and saying the same thing. He made so many calls kind of warning people that also was going to lie about him. Yeah, that's exactly what and that's what I would think. I mean, for one or maybe I'm like, well, maybe this this family really does have a real problem.


So let's look into that. And then if not, I would immediately be thinking this guy's already trying to cover tracks ahead of time. So he's expecting something, you know, incriminating to come forward here in the very near future. And let's get ahead of that. Let's use his statements against him. Let's lock him into some some lies that we can disprove later and destroy his credibility. You know, that's how I operated. A lot of my friends did the same thing to me.


Your dad opened up a huge window of opportunity, and now no one knew at that time, you know, what was going to happen to your sister. But obviously there was some issue going on in that home. And abuse is always of concern. And to me, I would have immediately short answer was I would immediately say, hey, I think we got an abuser on the phone, is trying to trying to muddy the waters here in advance.


So let's look into it. Wow, that it's honestly so good to hear, because I don't I don't want to give up all hope on all police, I don't want to assume that they're all like that. I think that, you know, even just listening back to that meeting and into everything that occurred there, it just really dampened my hope on that. I mean, I think one last thing I wanted to touch. I mean, of course, if there's anything else you want to touch on about that particular audio from the meeting.


But the last thing I wanted to touch on was the fact that they told me, you know, we don't know this guy who you're talking to at the state attorney's office. You know, we can't speak about him, but you only have one chance. We submit this once and they say no. And it's done to later, you know, be told by the county attorney's office that that's not the way that it works.


So I think in my opinion and my feeling, I feel like they were trying to just lead me on and really discourage me from going forward with it in the hopes that maybe in 20 years when my father is in his 90s, that they might actually prosecute this thing. Yes, definitely misleading information because it's not truthful, you know, if I maybe somebody could give them the benefit of the doubt and say, you know, they just misspoke and what they were trying to convey was the double jeopardy situation and only being able to try someone once for a specific crime.


Obviously, the screening table's always open. When you take it to a prosecutor's office. It happens all the time. They look at it and they're like, oh, boy, you're close. I just need a little more on this. And we'll talk to this person again, see if he can come up with somebody else to verify their story or whatever the case may be and then come back and see me. That happens all the time. I've had cases that had to hit the prosecutor's screening table three or four times before I finally got to a point where they were comfortable and filing charges.


Yeah, no, I was stunned to find out that wasn't the reality, because I still at that point, I was taking what they said as truth until I could, you know, figure out otherwise. So, yeah, that's really good to know and hear from you, to be honest, because I just felt like at that point they were just kind of giving up on it and hoping I went away. But in the same breath, you know, as far as I know, there was no new evidence gained.


There was nothing obtained between that meeting and them telling me, OK, we're going to go ahead and present the case for prosecution. Yeah, yeah, it was it was concerning for sure, and what I'm hoping is. But this doesn't get to a point where your only option is to maybe hire a private investigative team. I mean, that's cases do get solved that way. There's a lot of talent among talented ones out there that, you know, are former law enforcement, former detectives of themselves.


So it shouldn't have to get that way. But in the back of your mind, are you are you like, boy, that's that's a real possibility. That's probably not in the so distant future. Yes, I definitely have a set of plans if the state doesn't agree to prosecute and hiring a private investigator is definitely one of them. You know, to be honest, I don't have the funds for an attorney and a private investigator and all these things.


You know, everything I have discretionary is really spent on marketing this case in hopes of, you know, compounding this media pressure. But if the state doesn't accept it, I do have a whole set of plans that does include that. I'm just so hesitant to ask for people's money, because in my mind, you know, two detectives spent 10 years on this and I can only imagine how many hundreds of thousands of dollars that cost taxpayers and to now ask people for money to solve the case that in my mind, could have easily been solved back in 2001.


It just hurts my heart and I'm super hesitant to do that. But it is something I will pursue if I have to.


Yeah, I like there's there's some advice that I would like to give the Phoenix Police Department on this podcast, but I don't want like your dad to hear it because I don't want him to be careful whether there are ideas that using, you know, cover investigative techniques that sometimes work and could be helpful in an instance like this.


And I maybe maybe off the record, if you think that something I shouldn't say allowed to arm your dad with knowledge wise, then I'll give you the advice afterward. But yeah, I tell you, it would be very expensive is the drawback.


And that's unfortunate. And, you know, not that we all can help you crowdfunded, but I guess you won't know until. The results come back from the prosecutor's office on whether or not they intend to file. My fear is right now, with all the information that at least I know of so far through you that they have to give, I do fear that they're going to decide. Not to because it's so circumstantial, but I don't know what what do you what are your thoughts?


Yeah, it's so hard because that argument comes up all the time and I you know, I'm not a professional. I don't know what is admissible in court and what's not. I have the police telling me A, B and C is not admissible. And then I have people I speak to privately, attorneys that, you know, I can go to for advice, prosecutors and other states that tell me that that's not true and that the things they tell me that cannot be admissible, such as any recorded interview with him that was not conducted by police and any of our home videos.


I've been told all of that can't be admitted into court by the police, but that I have all these other people telling me that it can.


It's definitely circumstantial, but all admissible, right? I mean, you're basically putting together a puzzle of guilt. I mean, you know, a picture that shows that he's guilty and you are allowed to put those pieces in there. And I think what they've been saying up to this point is, yes, but we want that one piece of hard physical evidence, forensic evidence, you know, to go with all that. And unfortunately, you don't always get that right.


Cases like this were prosecuted and there were sentences handed out all the time on just circumstantial information. But now in today's world, juries, unfortunately do expect DNA and they do expect someone to come on and talk about blood spatter analysis or whatever. They they watch so much true crime television that sometimes it does create a problem because if they don't see that, they're hesitant to hand out a guilty verdict. Oh, sure, and I get that all the time, what's the DNA, what is the crime scene look like?


And, you know, unfortunately, we don't have that. And you and I have talked about that, too, about how they just pretty much refuse to look for the body. And we have talked privately about the areas that I think she could be in and why. So I'd love to just get your formal opinion on this podcast about why you think that they're not looking in those areas. And if you think those areas are worth searching in, every area is worth searching.


In my opinion, the case I referred to earlier that was covered in my podcast.


I was I have a partial documentary filmed with this police department, and there was a body part found that matched the missing person and a retention pond, you know, two and a half hours north or so from where she was last seen.


And they just started diving bodies of water everywhere. I mean, here's the thing. If you're if you're a recovery team diver, if you're a cadaver dog handler, you need training, you need training hours, why not get that done in a position that's also work? I mean, you actually might be helping a case if you're going to go out and do, you know, so many hours of training where you're going to take your dog and lay human remains out, then make sure it indicates when it's supposed to and all these things as a training exercise anyway that month, why not schedule it for an area that might have something to do with Alice's disappearance just in case?


I mean, get a whole cadaver dog handlers network. I mean, they might reach out to all their buddies and say, hey, would you guys all like to come here and just just run your dogs on this day and see how many they could get together? I mean, why not do that? This is a murder. Whether or not status is that yet? That's what it is. And they know that. No one has brought that up to me before, and that is honestly such a good point and it does bring me to my point of I offered them free cadaver dogs.


This hasn't been discussed yet on the podcast because I've been hesitant to talk about the latest happenings. But it's something I've spoken about on social media very publicly. I was approached by a media company who, you know, wants to do a documentary about Elyssa, and they said, we'll give the police these free cadaver dogs. They're highly accredited. I sent the dogs like because these dogs have like resume's, which was astounding to me. But I sent this resume to the police and they said that they they wouldn't I have asked them if I could literally raise the funds for them to do the search.


And they said no. When I've talked about doing my own type of search, you know, I've asked if they would have an officer there or, you know, if they would help me in any type of capacity. And it's just a flat out refusal. No matter which area I talk about, no matter if I'm offering the resources or if I'm paying for it, they just keep saying, no, it's unbelievable.


It's unbelievable. It's I can't tell you the motives behind it. I mean, obviously screams of laziness. But, you know, what I said before is definitely true. I was I was a diver on the state police team, and our team loved when some detective was like, I don't really know. You know, somebody said this guy used to go fishing at this pond and we're looking for this guy. And so I have no real probable cause to believe it's in there.


But would you guys mind driving it anyway or. Yeah, we were going to go train some rock quarry that didn't have anything to do with anything. Anyway, this is way more cool, and we're so happy to do it the same way with cadaver dog handlers. And for just one of the detectives to say, sure, Sarah, you know, if you want to put that together, I think that's awesome. I will at least be there.


I will come out. You know, they're getting paid their own salary. Where does it matter where they spend the eight hours that day? I mean, that's how I feel and this whole training aspect is literally blowing my mind right now because it's so smart and I can't believe I haven't heard it before, but, yeah, it makes total sense. Like, why not just do it? So, yeah, I that is one thing that is so astounding to me, you know, that they there's so many things I guess.


But yeah. The fact that they just are refusing to look for a body and the thing about prosecution that gives me hope is that I was told for years and I'm not the only one they told other witnesses, other people involved in this case, you know, before 2017 that we're going to go ahead and move forward with this. They told in order to get one witness to talk, they told her, oh, don't worry, Mike Turney is never going to get out of prison.


You can go ahead and talk to us like they were telling people left and right that this thing was going to be prosecuted for. So for them to turn around and say we're not going to do it without more evidence. And this debate about it being prosecutable is just it's so hard for me to wrap my head around because I had this idea in my head that it's a no brainer that we're going that we are going to prosecute this because it's so obvious.


Yeah, I agree. And another thing that I almost forgot about that blew my mind during that conversation you recorded was that at one point they were like, you know, well, we're we're not aware of any specific allegations of sexual abuse. So there's not much we can do there. But were you. You were brought in and told that information specifically, you had no idea that that was even alleged until the police brought that information to you. Right.


Yes. Oh, my gosh, this. Yes, and I try not to be like, so picky with them or whatever, but yeah, I mean, absolutely, that's the thing. They sat me down when I was 19 years old and shattered my entire world, which, you know, is a blessing. And I don't blame them for that. It is a blessing in disguise that I was able to find out all these things about my father.


And in addition to them telling me that they went on ABC 20/20 in 2009 and said Alyssa told her friends very graphic things. So given that information that they're not interested, or at least when the recording took place, it seemed like they were not interested in using any of these third party statements or at least trying to. And I get I know hearsay, whatever, but. Also. Your sister isn't here now, so that might let them get these statements in and out.


I'm not saying that a defense attorney can't prevent that from happening. I'm not sure on that counsel. But I will say that I know that there are certain instances where the defense screws up and tries to bring in character witnesses or whatever for their defendant. And once they do that, that opens the door for the state to bring in anybody that's ever said one cross thing about your father. So to say that they're absolutely not usable again is misleading the information.


Yeah, I mean, yeah, it just leaves me, like, so confused because I imagine that any one of Alice's friends that may be asked to testify if this does go to trial, you know, they might ask something like, what was Alice's relationship like with her father according to what she told you? And those things are naturally going to come up. So not that I'm I'm pushing for these child abuse charges because ultimately, of course, I want to listen to have her fair trial in court for, you know, her murder.


But these things are going to come up. So I don't understand why they're acting like none of these things were said. Like they don't have letters from Alice where she says, you know, my dad's asking what I'm going to do for him. Just all these really crazy things I don't get why they don't think it's going to come up in court, because if it does go to trial, I feel like it absolutely will.


Well, if they charge him with murder, they're going to be asked in court to provide motive. And that would be their motive is that your father was afraid that your sister was going to come forward with information that he was abusing her or that one of her friends that she had told was going to come forward with that information and that's why he killed her. So I think they have a great chance of getting that stuff in because it speaks to motive.


Now, again, I'm not a prosecutor. I'm not a defense attorney. There might be some information that's contrary to that that they could bring up. But in my experience in the courtroom and being around prosecutors and and filing charges over 21 years, I would think that it's quite possible that it would be used or could be used. Yeah, I mean, I have to agree, I think the bottom line in terms of prosecution in my mind and again, I don't neither of us are experts on prosecuting murderers, but, you know, the motive, means and opportunity are there.


Absolutely, I mean, there's no doubt and, you know, it's it's weird that. I courting them, I think it's what you told me as far as you know, your father's never lawyered up. He's never told police if you want to speak with me, you're gonna have to speak with my attorney. Is that correct? That's correct, as far as I know, he's just said that he pleads the fifth and that he doesn't wish to speak with them and they've left it at that.


They I mean, they went as far as having the you know, the old Phoenix chief of police. Right. My father, a letter when he was in prison saying, hey, we would love for you to interview. We think you have information that can solve your daughter's case. And he said, no, he just that's when he replied with that six page letter saying that he had to interview 5000 people on live television or whatever in order for them to interview him.


But that letter from the chief of police is so telling to me. Like you, the chief of police sent a letter saying that he probably has information and they want it. And you're asking me to shut up and go away and stop talking about this prosecution. It's just that that one aspect to me is is so telling. It is, it is how old is your father now? He is 72, 72, so it's getting to the point where, you know, and I'm sure this is a real driving force for you as well, it's getting to that point because of his age where it's like the state's going to have to take it shot.


You know, if if you lose, you lose, but you're going to have to take that shot before he passes away.


It's definitely it's certainly a strong enough. A circumstantial case, at least from what I know of it so far, that they could get an indictment, no problem. They could they could take him to trial. And, you know, it's just like we got to take a shot before he passes away of old age.


And that's exactly what I said. And my family has been very, very clear that we would rather take the chance of this going to trial and risk double jeopardy than risk the chance of him passing away before anything happens. And, you know, in that meeting, they basically said that they don't take that into consideration or whatever. They just didn't listen to it. But, yeah, I think I would rather take that chance. I know my family would rather take that chance because time is running out.


It really is. And even if this goes to trial, I anticipate it's still going to be a few years before this whole thing gets resolved anyway. I agree, I agree. And boy. Don't forget, we got a record for me to give you this idea. Now, the police probably doesn't sound like they would be interested in any kind of advice from an old cop from Indiana, let alone from you. But I want to tell you this idea because it's something that we used before and it's worked.


And again, this is the fact that. This group of investigators where this lead investigator that has it now isn't constantly trying to think outside the box, you know, and just try to make things happen is a bit alarming to me. But I will say this in defense of officers that work in a homicide unit, it's you know, to me there's nothing bigger. There was nothing more important than to being, you know, being even a small role in a murder investigation.


And I would just go way outside the box. I would try everything anybody that needed to be talked to would be talked to.


Now, is it different for an officer who works in a homicide unit and only works murders every day and has seven at any given time on their plate to investigate? Quite possibly. Does that Namu? Quite possibly. Should it? Absolutely not. So I don't know what the case is there with the Phoenix Police Department. Yeah, and that's totally fair. I can't gauge their interest, especially with these new officers, if it were the two detectives from the past, I would I would say yes.


I think that they are probably are thinking outside the box and they probably are doing so many things I'm not aware of. And I truly hope that's the case. But with these new people in the case, it's so hard to tell. You know, one thing I did want to talk to you about is, is kind of like your theory of why this didn't go forward before. And I think a lot of people would like to know if you think that the fact that my father was a deputy sheriff in the 1970s has anything to do with that.


It's happened before, Sarah. I can tell you that, you know, it's given your dad's age. He was a deputy in the 70s. Anyone that was a pillar of his that he was friends with and he, you know, was also a police officer that he worked closely with because of their age. If they're still a policeman, they're probably in a position of power just because of longevity. So I think it's always a possibility. I mean, there's just some weird things that have happened here.


I think in definitely just to begin with, just the lack of communication to you. And it's not always, you know, it's a blessing when you have family that are as actively involved as you are. I mean, it's helpful. You know, the thing that you have created on your own media wise is helpful. Those are things that the police can't necessarily accomplish. So the fact that it's not being treated as such is insulting. I think to you it's insulting to to people that that love you and follow you.


And I just I don't understand the mentality. And I'm telling you, it's it's a new breed of police officers. I get it in some ways that's better. In some ways I feel like it's not. And this is one of those ways, one of those times where I think it's not. I think there it's it's a little more impersonal than it used to be. Yeah, and I think that's a fair assessment, and I honestly tried so hard in this podcast to be as neutral as possible, which is why I just read police reports and why I read their emails and why I just present this audio pretty much uncut, like I feel like I have been so fair when I could have gone on this podcast kicking and screaming about how they're not doing anything.


And people people would still have loved me for that and respected me for that. But I was trying to be as respectful as possible to them by just presenting factual information. And at this point, I feel like they just see me as some type of loose cannon when all I'm doing is presenting public case record as well as actual recordings.


I mean, in your opinion, you know, hearing the way I present their side of things, do you think I'm respectful? I would just honestly love to know. Oh, I think you're frustrated, you know, and I mean, that was apparent in the recording, but look how long it's been going on and look what all you've been through. And here is what I would say to the to the police officers involved or anyone that thinks you're you're a nuisance or, you know, a busybody and that you're disruptor is.


Control the narrative, like I said before, work with Sarah, if you're worried about, you know, Sarah going out and doing things that are going to be detrimental to the case or just annoying in general, help her, because when you're helping her, you're providing the information and help guiding the release of information. And there's no better way to do that than to work in concert with you. You know, and you're not being annoyed that that wasn't me saying that at all.


You're a not. But if anybody is taking it that way, then be smart about this and control that narrative, because when they don't communicate with you, it may force you to make the most logical assumption that's available because that's all you you can do. You're not being told otherwise. So if they want to keep that from happening and they want to to make sure that what you're doing is in their best interest as far as investigators on this case, then they should work with you as intimately as possible.


Embrace it. I would honestly love that and I have had, you know, email conversations with them saying, like, you know, if I release anything that you think could hurt the case, please let me know, because they've brought up my social media and things like that. And so I always counter that with please give me guidance, please let me know if I am doing something that could jeopardize the case. And they just don't seem to want to have that cooperation with me, you know, because on top of that, it is terrifying to release these things, like without that guidance of knowing, you know, this could hurt the case, this couldn't hurt the case.


I'm like you said, I'm left to make the most logical decision on what to release. And I just have to believe that if it's public record that they've given, you know, journalists and other people in the past, that they don't mind the whole world knowing about it. But I'm left in this really scary position of, you know, not being a lawyer, not being a member of law enforcement, just being a normal person who started a podcast about my sister trying to figure out what could hurt the case and what couldn't, because there's so much I have not released it, believe it or not, with 24 episodes, because I've been scared to release it, because I think it might hurt the case.


So I would love that partnership, but I just don't think they're interested.


Yeah, doesn't sound like they are at all and they're just hurting the situation. I mean, in every aspect of law enforcement, every other resources available to you is only as good as you allow it to be. I mean, your level of cooperation is paramount if you are working with intelligence officers and they're just gathering intelligence for you and on certain individuals or so a certain situation, if you just say look up everything you can on this guy and let me know, that's way less effective than if you go there and you work with the intelligence officer and you say, listen, this is this is what I'm looking at.


This is the case. This is why I think this person's involved. And so these would be some of the things I'm looking for. You know, as far as the timeline where he was living here and all these things, that helps that intelligence officer so much.


I mean, if you just save him probably three weeks of work, possibly, you know, by by being as specific as possible. But some detectives would just be like this Senate similar to the intel analysts. I sent him an email. Hey, give me everything you've got. A John Doe is his date of birth, and that's it. Well, what do you mean? Everything I got, you know, I need direction. I need focus.


I need to know what what this is for and, you know, what are we looking for exactly. And so it's like that with you. Like they're just leaving you to the wolves, basically. And there are there are ways that they can be very helpful to you and there are ways that you can be very helpful to them. But if the two aren't working together and communicating them at all times and this isn't your fault because you're trying, they are not.


If that isn't happening, then, you know, it's going to at some point be counterproductive. Yeah, I couldn't agree more, and I think all I can say is really that I'm happy to have you, you know, with your insight on this. Like, honestly, I think after we spoke after I went on your podcast, I literally cried to have that type of validation from law enforcement is something I haven't had for so many years.


And it really, really does just mean the world to me. Well, I mean, I told you this, I admire you, you're one of my heroes because this is not a lot of people have this amount of grit in them, and you do.


And I know your sister super appreciative and so proud of you. And that's I mean I mean, to be honest, that's why I'm so invested in this, is I just know what you've gone through. I can feel it somehow. And the fact that you just keep marching forward and putting the left foot in front of the right foot is it's I mean, it's I'm just I'm a I'm in my I'm a big admirer of you. You're so sweet, I mean, honestly, I'm just trying to do the right thing, like for me, it's just it's so black and white and it's what else I would have done for me.


And, yeah, I mean, as as much as people maybe wouldn't believe it, you know, I really was raised to believe in justice and to believe in right versus wrong and that you always do the right thing and you always speak the truth. And, you know, that's just kind of blood over. But, you know, before we close out, I do want to ask if you have anything else to add. If you had, you know, anything, maybe I didn't touch on or just anything you want to say about the case.


Well, for one thing, I would love to sit in a room with your dad if we can make that happen or not. I would love to be a guy that tried to interview your father, but that's just like a selfish thing within me, because I always feel like I can get it when nobody else can. But that aside, I you know, I will say this if this is just for you, but if it reaches a point where you think you've got to hire some private investigative help, then all I ask is that you please let me know.


I'll try to help with any resources that I can, whether it be contacts with people I know or in crowdfund, you know, crowd funding. I'm absolutely happy to help with that. And if anyone from the Phoenix Police Department listens to this, just wanted to say, hey, it cost you nothing to invest, just a little more effort into communicating with your victim's family, whether or not you think that person is a pain in your butt or that they're you know, they're just sending you too many emails, whatever you got to get past it.


A big part of your job is to keep them informed. And especially I'm just telling you, a person like Sara can crack this case wide open. And if you work with her, it only increases the chances of that happening. So wake up. You are absolutely amazing if there was any way I could, you know, get some type of interview between you and my father, that I would I would pay all the money.


I have to hear that, to be totally honest. So thank you. Thank you for your extremely kind words. You are wonderful to me and I really appreciate it. And I think that you're fair, you know, because you come on here and you're like, you know, it's hard to say what the prosecution you're not just telling me what I want to hear. And I really, really appreciate that. I feel like you're extremely honest and extremely you shoot from the hip just like I do.


So thank you. Absolutely.


I mean, I'm honored that you asked me to come on here and hopefully I did a service. And any time any time that you ever need help with anything or you just need to be on somebody, you know that I'll always answer. Of course, you are so great, Todd, where can people find all of your amazing work because you do a lot, you're also a comedian, you do so much, I am just blown away by it.


So where can everybody find you? Oh, thanks.


I appreciate that. Yeah, primarily, I'm a stand up comedian. It's primarily replacement by Bill, so you can find everything related to me at Todd Comedy Dotcom. That's my website that's got my comedy calendar, all my podcasts and I'm part of a on there. So it's one one one stop shop for everything. Todd Comedy Dotcom.


All right, perfect. Well, thank you so much for coming on. Absolutely. It's great speaking with you again, sir. Always great speaking with you. I owe a huge thank you to Todd McComas for coming on this show, so thank you, Todd, and definitely go check out his podcast, 10 41 with Todd McComas. I love you. Thank you. And I'll talk to you next time. Voices for Justice is hosted, produced and edited by me, Sarah Attorney, if you want to learn more about Elyssa story and how you can help with the case, visit justice for Alyssa Dotcom.


And if you love the show, it would really help if you gave me a rating in review in your podcast player. All right, if you've made it this far, you know that we are in our after show secret moment here, which is basically me doing podcast banter by myself that other people do in the beginning of their podcast. But I made it a secret after show because I think it's more fun that way and it gives me a chance to just break down and be real with you guys.


It's unscripted.


It's just really how I feel about everything going on. So if you aren't into that, I get it. You don't have to come to the secret after show moment. But if you are into it, cool. And I have a lot to say today. So I have to be so honest.


I was so excited for this interview and having Todd on gave me, like, so much reassurance with what I was doing.


For years, I have felt that the police haven't really been on my side, that it's kind of been this weird battle of me versus them. I don't know why it has to be that way, but it is. They've shot down my ideas. They've told me that they'll look into things, but it doesn't really matter because it doesn't it's not going to lead to anything. Just you guys have heard it. It's not been fun. My relationship with police.


So when he reached out and asked me to be on his podcast, I was honestly pretty nervous. I was like, OK, well, what if this guy just like slams me or smears me and says that I'm just being awful about the police? But as you can tell from his interview, that didn't happen. He literally called me a hero and I broke down crying. It's not just because he's a wonderful person, which he is. It was because I feel like I have been fighting for this validation from law enforcement that I have never gotten.


There was one time in October of 2013 where, you know, the lead person on Alice's case basically said, good job getting all that media exposure. But then that was also a really horrendous meeting that you will hear eventually in the podcast. But yeah, so hearing that from Todd, from this guy who was a detective for 19 years really meant the world to me. And it still does. I personally felt like this interview was so insightful because I'm not a professional, I am not a detective.


I am just a person recording with my microphone in my closet with the world's worst laptop. So, again, I just can't emphasize, like, how excited I was for this interview. And to finally have a member of law enforcement on this podcast while we're here in this moment, I also want to tell you guys that there's really no new updates. In Alissa's case, the Phoenix police did finally after like 18 months of waiting, finally give the state everything that they've asked for in terms of data and copies and everything like that.


So it took them about 18 months to get everything the state requested. But now it is finally in their hands and we're really just waiting. I don't know what else to say. Every day is still torture. I was not lying when I said that in the last podcast. Every day I check to see if my father has been arrested because I have no idea. And at this point I feel like I might be the last to know from law enforcement or the state attorney's office.


So, yeah, as much as I wish I could come on here and give you guys an update, there's not really one, just the fact that everything's been submitted and now it's in their hands. However, there has been a lot of movement in media. My goodness, you guys, if you have not gone on to tick tock and seen my videos yet, definitely go check them out. They have been gaining so much traction.


The video of Alyssa calling our father a pervert has something like eighteen million views. I only joined to talk a few months ago and I have gotten so much traction there. But more importantly, it's led to these really cool media opportunities. If you guys haven't seen. Alissa's case was featured in Elle in the Daily Mail. It was featured on NBC News. And just today, as I'm recording this after show moment, it has been featured on barstool sports.


So, yeah, I am like crying every single moment because I can't get over it. It's super amazing. And I never would have thought me acting like an idiot on ticktock would have led to this. So moral of the story, if you're fighting for justice, be open minded because my goodness, it has brought me so many opportunities I would have never, ever expected. And I have gotten some questions, but there's nothing I can air at this point.


So if you guys have questions, were you genuinely want to know more about the case, things that maybe I missed, things that you need clarification on from any of the past episodes. Send a voice memo to Sarah at Voices for Justice podcast Dotcom. It does need to be a voice memo that I can play it on air so I don't have to sit here and talk to myself. If you have any questions about how to submit the voice memo, just send me an email and I'm glad to walk you through it.


It's super easy. In most cases you can just open your phone. There's usually a voice memo app already installed. You say your question, you press little arrow and send it right to my email. Sara at Voices for Justice podcast dot com. And again, if your question gets chosen to be in the podcast, I will send you a little swag bag of goodies. So I would honestly love to be able to clear up any of those questions, any of those lingering wonderings you guys might have about the case.


Please let me clear that up for you. Also, sneak peek for everybody in our secret after show moment here. I am going to do a Q and A episode if I can get enough questions. It's hard to really fill up a 45 minute show with Q&A, but if you guys have enough questions, I want to do it.


Like I said, I really do want to try to clarify as many things as I can. Even twenty four episodes does not cover this case fully. It just really doesn't. So again, if you want your question aired, send me a voice memo. If you just want to submit a question for the Q&A, you can just type that out to me again. Sara, add Voices for Justice podcast dotcom. But thank you for joining me in our secret after show moment, if you guys are a part of the movement, let me know on social media, I would love to know if you guys are listening to this.


I've gotten some good feedback, but it's really mostly for me and for you guys. It is that beginning of the podcast banter that I have made optional by ending it or by moving it to the end of the podcast where I can get unscripted, where I can make mistakes, or I'm not going back and really editing this a thousand times. It is my time to be super, super real and let my guard down with you guys.


So I hope you like it. And yeah, I love you. Thank you. And I'll talk to you next time.