This is Deborah Roberts. Welcome to the 2020 True Crime Vault. Each week, we reach back into our archives and bring you a story we found unforgettable. Only a true psychopath could do this. A pool of blood coming from his head. Somebody had been paid to kill me. Why would you want your husband killed? Take a listen. Coming up. Kathleen Durst, a medical student, married to the ideal husband. She was swept off her feet. She viewed him as her Prince Johnny. Robert Durst, the son of a New York real estate mogul. But was Kathy's life with him all that it seemed? She had shown me bruises on her arm. Bobby is going out of control. Then one night, Kathy Durst vanishes. The last conversation that I had with Kathy, she turned to me and said, Promise me, if something happens to me, you'll check it out. I'm afraid of what Bobby might do. Had she abandoned a troubled marriage or was she dead? I said, Oh, my God, something bad happened to Kathy. Beautiful, married and missing. I'm John Quinones. When Cathy McCormick, a middle-class suburban girl, married Robert Durst, a Manhattan millionaire, an heir to a real estate fortune, it seemed she was bound for a perfect privileged life.

There were city apartments and a country cottage, and seemingly everything she wanted. But her happiness didn't last, and her friends thought they knew why. Robert Durst had a dark side, and when Kathy suddenly vanished in 1982, they suspected he killed her. But all they had were their suspicions. As Cynthia McFadden first reported in 2001, little did they know another potential clue would come 18 years later and 3,000 miles away with another woman once closely tied to Robert Durst. It was December 25th in Los Angeles. Susan Bermon, a 55-year-old author and would-be screenwriter, had failed to show up for a Christmas party. And her cousin called to ask why she wasn't at the party. And a homicide detective answered the phone. Bermon's body had been found Christmas Eve at her rented Bungalow at Benedict Canyon. Her dog's incessant barking had alerted the neighbor. They found the back door open. When it really happens in your life, Nobody wants to say it. Nobody wanted to say the word murder. Julie Smith is a popular mystery writer and an executor of Bermon's estate. Did you immediately think who might have done this? No, I didn't. Even though I write detective novels, I found something I didn't know.

That isn't where your mind goes when a friend of yours is killed. Where does it go? You think about, what did she feel? Did she see the person? Was she afraid? Did she experience fear? There may have been no time for fear. Susan Bermans was no ordinary murder, rather an execution execution, a single bullet to the back of her head. It looked like a mob hit, which wasn't actually so far fetched because Bermans was the daughter of a powerful Las Vegas mobster. Susan Bermans wasn't just killed. I mean, it was execution. Her death is a very questionable death, not just in terms of the fact that it was a homicide, but the timing is extremely curious. Curious because Susan Bermon was murdered Just before district Attorney Pierrot had intended to question her about another mystery, the disappearance 20 years earlier of the beautiful young medical student named Kathleen Durst. This case in particular is an unusual case, the facts and circumstances, I believe, cry out for a review. It was January 1982 when Kathy Durst vanished. According to her husband, Robert Durst, who belongs to a prominent New York real estate family, she was last seen boarding a train.

Because you had a vibrant woman who was in medical school, who had everything to live for, who suddenly disappears off the face of the Earth. It made absolutely no sense. The mystery lingered until a man was arrested in an unrelated case. He said he had information on Kathy Durst. More on that later. The state police were troubled when they reopened the Durst files, and even more so when Susan Susan Bermond suddenly showed up dead. Then the cold case of Cathy Durst became very hot indeed. Had Susan Bermond been silenced? As it turns out, she had been a close friend and confidante. Of Robert Durst. And we are aware of the fact that they had communicated very recently before her death. And do you think that her death is related in some way to this investigation? There's no way that I can say that yet. But you haven't haven't rolled it out. Haven't ruled it in, haven't ruled it out. In 1972, when Robert Durst and Kathleen McCormick were married, the future had seen bright. Kathy's best friend, Gilbert Najamey. She was in love with her husband, Bob, and I could see on her face, she would light up.

She was in love with him. She viewed him as her Prince Charming. Kathy's older brother, Jim McCormick. It's like she was living almost like the American dream of being in love and hitting a home run, I guess. And Robert Durst certainly looked like a home run. The eldest son of a real estate developer, Seymour Durst, whose family's company, the Durst organization, then owned half a billion dollars worth of Manhattan properties. Describe to me Bob Durst. What was he like back then? It was hard to read personality, and I took it as being just being shy around other people. In ways they were polar opposites. Cathy, the pretty, upbeat and outgoing middle class Long Island girl. Robert, the reserved rich boy whose mother committed suicide when he was only six. What do you think your sister saw in him? She was 19 years old. I thought she was swept off her feet by the aura of the world he was in. Like she was going places and doing things and clubbing and all of that stuff. It's a very seductive world. She was 19. He was 27. S soon, they were part of the New York club scene.

Studio 54, Xenon, the Copacabana. We went out a lot. We went dancing, partied. Some drugs, alcohol, just like everyone in the '70s, early '80s. Cathy's close friend, Cathy Traceman. Was Cathy a party girl, would you say? To a certain extent. She liked to have a good time. Back then, it was this kid in Candyland. Here I am in Manhattan, and there's all these rich and famous people. And oh, boy. And Sue Bermon was one of those people. The same Susan Bermon found murdered. She was very upfront about the that her father was in the mob. She traded off it. That was her career. She wrote books spun from memories of a childhood spent in Las Vegas at the Flamingo Hotel. The daughter of the late Davy Bermond, who ran the casinos under the legendary Bugsy Siegel. I believe she was 14 when her father died, and her mother had died at about the same time. And she felt be bereft for having no family. And she collected a group of very loyal friends who stayed with her all the time I've known her. The Mauvesh's daughter was close to both Kathy and Bob Durst. But Bermond had gone to college with Bob, and when she got married, Bob was the one who gave her away.

She talked about him like a brother, really.I mean, they were close.They were very close.Not boyfriend/girlfriend close.Never. What was it about him that so appealed to her, do you think? He worshiped Susan. He adored her. On the occasions that I've met him, I had the impression of a very withdrawn person, extremely withdrawn. Susan was very exuberant, and she could definitely bring you out of yourself. She was exotic. She was exotic. Yeah, she was very exotic. Kathy Durs was also an exuberant, vivacious woman, and it may have been part of why Robert was drawn to her. But by the mid 1970s, only a few years into their marriage, friends and family say something changed Bob and Kathy's relationship forever. She wanted to have family because she came from a family. It was part of her character. But when she did get pregnant, she was so proud. He forced her to have an abortion. Forced her? Yeah. It was like, you got no choice. And the reason was because Bobby told her that he did not want the responsibility of children. Eleanor Schwank, another member of Kathy's Inner Circle. She came from a large Irish Catholic family. So he was denying her essence, something that was very important to her.

And she was so devastated by that, I can remember. So she redirected her energy and her life force. She started going to school at Western Connecticut State College. She got her four-year degree in nursing. That was 1978. After six years of marriage, her friends say that Catholic girl denied motherhood was plunging ahead to compensate with a career of her own. Kathy Durst had even decided to go on to medical school and become a doctor. She said to me, Jim, I'm going to be the first Durst to be an MD, a doctor. I looked at her and said, Why is that such a thing? She goes, Because in Jewish families, that's an honor. And she was so happy to be giving honor at that time to the Durst name, which, unfortunately, didn't happen. When we come back, a marriage falls apart. Came in and grabbed Cathy by the hair, started pulling her. She had shown me bruises on her arm that she said that he had caused. And Cathy's final word. She turned to me and said, Gilbert, promise me, if something happens to me, you'll check it out. I'm afraid of what Bobby might do.

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So whether it's finding that extra hour for yourself or embarking on a journey of self-discovery, therapy can be a game-changer. Take the first step with better help and make your mental health a priority. Learn to make time for what makes you happy with Betterhelp. Visit betterhelp. Com/2020. That's the numbers, 2-0-2-0. To get 10% off your first month. Again, betterhelp, h-e-l-p. Com/2020. Hey, I'm I'm Andy Mitchell, a New York Times bestselling author. And I'm Sabrina Kohlberg, a morning television producer. We're moms of toddlers and best friends of 20 years. And we both love to talk about being parents, yes, but also pop culture. So we're combining our two interests by talking to celebrities, writers, and fellow scholars of TV and movies. Cinema, really. About what we all can learn from the fictional moms we love to watch. From ABC Audio in Good Morning, America, pop Culture Mom's is out now wherever you listen to podcasts. After six years of marriage, there was growing tension between Kathy Durst, a lively and ambitious young woman, and her husband, Robert, the introverted heir to a New York real estate fortune. Kathy's family and friends thought the cause was her decision to become a doctor and her increasing independence.

Once again, Cynthia McFadden. I sometimes felt that maybe he resented her going back to school and becoming her own person. Like Cathy, Dr. Marion Watlington was a nurse who went on to medical school. He was the man that wanted her to be under his control and do exactly what he said. Kathy's friend Gilbertina Jamie, says that Bob Ders need to control his wife was about to erupt. Since Cathy's disappearance, in conversations with all of the friends, it's become painfully clear that there was violence early in the relationship. I was never a witness to it, but I was always one of many that Kathy would call, relaying the violence, the arguments, the slapping. The only time I personally witnessed a violent act was at my mom's house, and Bob wanted to go. He had enough of the family thing because he was never really into it. And came in and grabbed Cathy by the hair, started pulling her out of the room by the hair. By 1980, her family and friends say Cathy was telling them that Bob's violence was escalating. After one beating, She called and I said to her, You've got to go and get yourself photographed, and just in case you need this evidence.

It seems she never took those photos. She certainly never filed a complaint against him. But her family and friends say that by 1981, Kathy and Bob were spending more and more time in two separate apartments in New York City. He in a penthouse on Riverside Drive. She often stayed in a flat on East 86th Street, both in buildings owned by the Durst organization. Oftentimes, she would ask me to drive into the city to stay with her at her apartment because she was in fear. She didn't know what was going to happen next. Towards the end, she had shown me bruises on her arm that she said that he had caused. A year before Cathy's disappearance, what her friends now believe was Bob Durst's simmering violence came out in the open. Cathy, Gilberta, and a group of friends, including a photographer named Peter Schwartz, had gone out for a night on the town. Later, they returned to Cathy's 86th Street apartment. When we got there, Cathy and Peter weren't with us, and Bob got very angry, and we stayed there a short time, and when we got back, Bob ended up kicking Peter in the face.

Durst had broken a bone under Schwartz's right eye. Peter Schwartz received cash settlement in a civil suit, and eventually, criminal charges were dropped against Robert Durst. Kathy was upset. She was very angry that Bob had manipulated his way out of the consequences. For the first time after eight years of marriage, her friend say, Kathy Durst began talking about divorce. Kathy had made it known to Bob that she was going to try and get a settlement, a financial settlement from him, and he would have been out of the picture completely. She hired a lawyer at Millbank Tweed, a high-powered Wall Street law firm, and started collecting financial papers. We went through Bob's desks, and we got tax returns and other things that Kathy thought would be pertinent. I think she was so convinced that she was going to be able to manage herself out of the problem with three months to go with graduation and to get on with her life independent of this obviously failed relationship with Bob. Was I egging her on to divorce him? Yes. Did I think she deserved a settlement? Yes. Did I think it was going to end in her demise?

Not until it was too late. But there may have been a clear warning. Just three weeks before Kathy vanished when her friends say her husband hit her severely enough that she went to the emergency room. Sources say hospital records show that on January sixth, 1982, Cathy Ders sought medical treatment at Jacobi Hospital for injuries to her face and head. Friends and family say that Cathy told them the bruises were the result of a fight with her husband at 3:00 AM the night before. A fight, they say she told them, about how much money she wanted if they divorced. And there was considerable money. Remember, Robert Durst's family-owned a good chunk of the Manhattan skyline. For his part, Robert Durst has declined an ABC news request for an interview. But in a sworn affidavit shortly after his wife disappeared, he denied he ever threatened or assaulted her. Durst also denied they had ever discussed a divorce. Only a formal separation. He said Cathy made up allegations of abuse in order to get more money, and he said she had, in fact, moved back in with him prior to her disappearance. Let's go back to the last night that When you saw your friend.

Set the scene for me. You were having a dinner party that night. Yes. It was a Sunday afternoon. Intermittent snow, light rain. It was cold. It was January 31st 1982, three weeks after Kathy's trip to the hospital. Cathy and Bob Dyrs spent Saturday together at the cottage overlooking Lake Truesdale in South Salem. But that Sunday, Cathy showed up at Gilbert's home in Newtown, Connecticut, an hour's drive away. She came to the house, was visibly upset. Bob would call the house, I want you home now. She didn't want to go. The last conversation that I had with Kathy was a very powerful conversation. As she was leaving my house, she turned to me and said, Gilbertta, promise me. If something happens to me, you'll check it out. I'm afraid of what Bobby might do. She left your house that night and you never saw her again. That is correct. Something happened to Kathy, and I'm going to keep my promise. And she'll try her best, but that promise won't be easy to keep. When we come back-Picked up the phone and called the New York State Police. Tried to report her missing. But while she was calling police-Nabors serving and throwing away her personal effects, her books.

What do you know that we don't know? Stay with us. For more than 20 years, Robert Durst has denied having anything to do with his wife's disappearance. He told police he last saw Cathy when he put her on a train in South Salem, bound for New York City, and never saw her again. And yet, as time went by, the police began to discover inconsistencies in Durst's story story about what happened that final weekend. Once again, Cynthia McFaddon. No one disputes that Cathy arrived in South Salem, but many who were close to Cathy doubt that she ever left there, at least not alive. It wasn't until the next night that Cathy's friends realized something was not right. It was Monday, February first, 1982, and Cathy was supposed to meet Gilbert in Greenwich Village. I'm sitting at the bar, had Bloody Mary, no Cathy. I go to the phone, I call the penthouse, leave a message. No Cathy. I could not understand why Cathy would leave me sitting there knowing I had come all the way in from Connecticut. It was uncharacteristic, I take it, for her to have stood you up. Yes. Had it ever happened before in the many years of your friendship?

No. I can say, most assuredly, that Kathy was very reliable. After three days of unanswered messages, Gilberta says she finally got a call back from Bob Durst on Thursday afternoon, four days after Kathy vanished. All he kept saying was, I don't know where she is. So I hang up the phone, and now I'm having this major revelation. The red flags went off, and I know something's wrong. Probably the first person I called was Kathy Traceman. I felt something was wrong, and it was only weeks before that Kathy had expressed to me that if anything happens to me, Bob is responsible. The last time I spoke to her, she said, If anything happens to me, you've got a promise that you won't let him get away with it. Eleanor, If anything ever happens to me, don't let Bobby get away with it. I just, out of instinct, picked up the phone and called the New York State Police, tried to report her missing. And? They wouldn't hear it. Are you family? I said, No, I'm not family. I'm her best friend, and I'm telling you that something's wrong. This woman's missing, and we need to go to the house in South Salem.

We need to go now. Well, I'm sorry, ma'am, but you're not the family. You can't report her missing. But the rest of her family didn't know Kathy was missing until Bob Ders called later that Thursday night. And it was Jim. He had this a monotone voice when he talked, Have you seen Kathy? Was it like, How are you doing? Blah, blah, blah. Have you seen Kathy? I go, No, Bob. What's going on? Finally, on Friday, nearly five full days after Kathy vanished, her husband reported her missing at Manhattan's 20th Precinct. Detective Michael Strux says Robert Durce told him he'd not spoken with his wife since Sunday night. That would excite any detective at that point. Why are you here after five days? What was his state? Was he worried, excited, frantic, calm? Passive would be a good word. I think. He was calm. Essentially, he said that he had delivered her to a train station on Sunday, and he did call her later that evening after he put her on the train, and that he never speaks to her again. What was your gut reaction? Do you remember? It seemed bizarre. I mean, you're coming here five days later after you've spoken to your wife.

But he went on to explain to me how she would very often go to take these clinical studies at various hospitals and would remain in their dorms or wherever they stay for days at a time. So it seemed reasonable to me at that point. Her friends would later tell Detective Strouck otherwise that Kathy regularly kept Bob informed of her whereabouts. But that first evening, Detective Struck stuck to the standard questions. How was the marriage? Did they fight? He said to me that their marriage was pretty good. Within days, Struck would discover from Durst himself that wasn't true. And police were to say there were other problems with Durst story, like the phone call he says he made from South Salem to Kathy in Manhattan later that night. Then upon further questioning from the state police, Bob changed his story that he didn't talk to her on the phone from the South Salem house. He changed his story. You suspect because it wasn't on his phone bill. Yes, exactly. He said he took the dog for a walk and used a payphone. But the nearest payphone was a three-mile walk on that rainy, cold night. And according to police sources, another part of Durst's story didn't check out.

Durst told them he had a drink with neighbors after dropping Cathy at the train, but the neighbors told the local police that wasn't true. Does that strike you as strange? Sitting here today? Sure. The neighbors say they didn't see Robert Durst at all that night, although they did recall seeing a light coming from a crawl space under his house the next evening. Meanwhile, other odd reports, both in South Salem and New York, that Robert Durst, within days of her disappearance, was throwing out Cathy's clothes and textbooks. Neighbors observing him, throwing away her personal effects, her books, and like, wait a minute, what do you know that we don't know? To throw away textbooks that she's currently using, her clothes, her current clothes. I mean, these do not seem like the acts of a grieving husband. No, it sounds like a guy that's pissed off. Sounds like a guy who's fed up as well. I mean, he could be throwing his hands up as well, saying, Look, good riddance to you as well. Or like a guy who knows she's not coming back. Sure. Take your pick. Coming up, police begin to track down leads, and not all of them point to Robert Ders.

We canvas buildings. We spoke to witnesses. Even witnesses who say they saw Cathy. I felt real strong that she did make it to Manhattan at some point. Was it possible she was still alive? Stay with us. After Kathy Durst disappeared, the police were faced with conflicting stories. Robert Durst denied involvement, but there were inconsistencies in his story, and reports from neighbors that he had thrown out her belongings within days of her disappearance. But to find out what happened to Kathy, the police needed something tangible. Here again, Cynthia McFadden. What detected his collective struck was combing the city for was evidence, not innuendo. We canvas buildings. We spoke to witnesses. We spoke to school, faculty. He thought he could prove Kathy was alive when he found witnesses whose accounts seem to place Cathy in Manhattan late Sunday night or Monday morning. An elevator operator thought he saw Cathy with a strange man that night. The police released a composite sketch. The building superintendent thought he saw Cathy the next morning. But 20 years later, sources tell ABC News, both witnesses are now unsure. The elevator man now thinks he was wrong, and the building super now says it was her coat he thought he recognized from the back half a block away.

Well, things would change, but they were adamant on their recollection at that time. And I'm speaking to these people within days. In this case, when you got these initial reports from the building, which, after all, Mr. Durst's family owns, you must have been suspicious. Well, yeah. Could they be facilitating him in some way? Sure. But then comes along the dean from the school. For Detective Struck, what cinched it was the dean at the Albert Einstein College of Medicine, where Kathy attended medical school. The dean told police he'd received a phone call from a woman identifying herself as Kathy Durst, Monday morning when she called in sick. At least initially, it appears to you she's made it back to New York. Yeah, I felt real strong that she did make it to Manhattan at some point. After waiting five days to report his wife missing, her husband hit the headlines as a hero, putting up a reported $100,000 reward. Dirst was quoted as saying, I think Cathy's alive. She was unhappy. All I want to know is that She's someplace, and she's all right. But Detective Struck says Bob Dyrs's story to him was changing from what he first described as a good marriage to a new picture of a troubled unfaithful Cathy.

He tells me she has difficulty with alcohol. The drug issues or relationships outside the marriage, these things start to come forward as we go in the investigation. That she's having an extramarital affair? He said at the time he suspected that. And helping paint this new picture was Bob's close friend, Susan Bermond. In a sworn affidavit used in a surrogate hearing on Kathy's estate, Bermond described the Cathy Durst she knew. Severe emotional problems, an alcohol abuser. She implied Cathy was using cocaine and said that just before Cathy vanished, she was hysterical about medical school. I mean, this must have fueled a sense at the time. It was possible she'd left. Whether she had taken off with somebody or just was sick of her relationship with her husband or met her own demise. There was a whole mixed bag of things that we were entertaining on a daily basis. Cathy's friends believe that Robert Durston, his friend Susan Bermon, were deliberately trying to discredit Cathy, perhaps to divert the police investigation. They insist Cathy had no serious drug or alcohol problems and that while both she and Robert had been unfaithful, she was not seriously involved with anyone.

As for medical school, officials there tell ABC News that although she had missed some classes, Cathy was fully expected to graduate in three months. Cathy's friends say they repeatedly told Detective Struck what Cathy had said about Bob's violent behavior. But they say Detective Struck did not seem to take them seriously. It's not fact. You can't just run off and indict somebody because there's been a push or a slap or a punch or a bad relationship. Some of her friends have told me they were upset that they had called and said they had more information and that you hadn't-Things were becoming redundant after a while. I mean, there was no fact witnesses. For Detective Struck, it came down to having no solid evidence of foul play. No crime scene, no body, no blood, missing person. Then, now. And soon, says Detective Strouck, they would have no cooperation from the husband. That is, as soon as Robert Durst hired a powerful New York attorney, Nicholas Scopeta. I'm sure you've heard the jargon. You don't want people to lawyer up. In fact, once Mr. Scopeta is hired, Do you ever talk to Bob Durst again? No. Is there anything in retrospect you wish you'd done then?

Not really. If I would have been that much more aggressive towards an individual, and let's say Mr. Durst, I don't think that would have changed things. I'm speaking to an individual that comes to me five days after Five days after anybody has seen her. A lot could happen during that time. So push as hard as you might. The fact is, by the time the police knew that this disappearance and/or/murder had taken place, whoever did it had a long time to cover their tracks. Yeah, I guess that's fair to say. Sure. And it would be a long time before the next big clue. When we come back 18 years after Kathy disappeared, Susan Bermon is murdered right before she's about to answer questions about Robert Durst. I was filled with terror because what I had been saying all along that Sue Bermon was a key to this case, most likely was true. And now the woman was dead. Stay with us. You might think that if a family had extraordinary wealth, they would use their resources to search for a missing loved one. But if Robert Durst and his family were trying hard to find Kathy, her brother Jim says they weren't telling him about it.

Years later, Jim McCormick was still rankled by what he called the lack of support shown to his family by Robert's father, Seymour Durst. Here with the conclusion of our story, Cynthia McFatten. So Mr. Durst never said to you, Whatever you need, I'm here? No way. I've always found it offensive that him being a contemporary of my mom in terms of the father and the mother of the two parties involved, that he never reached out to her. Not once. Robert Ders says he hired private investigators to look into Cathy's disappearance. But if they turned up anything, police sources say it was never turned over to them. Meanwhile, Cathy's family and friends worry that the police investigation itself was less than thorough. There's been the implication that you and the police backed off from this because of who he was, because he was a member of the Ders family. True? Why? Powerful guy, rich family, political connections. Doesn't make sense. We're under a microscope the minute something like this comes out. I don't remember anybody ever doing the amount of work on a missing person's case as we've done them. Detective Struck worked the case for three more years until he retired.

In the intervening years, nothing much happened until 1998, when that tip came in from an accused criminal trying to make a deal. The tipster said he had heard that Kathy Durst never made it to the train that Sunday night and was buried somewhere in Westchester County. Police sources say the tip didn't pan out, but it did prompt another look at the case and also spurred Gilbertta back into action. I did this piece with People magazine, and I allowed myself to be photographed for one reason. I wanted Mr. Durst to open up the magazine and know that Gilbertta had come back, and then I wanted him to look at me and say, Oh, my God, she's talking. Three weeks after the article came out, Susan Bermon was murdered. The police call Gilberta with the news. I was speechless. I couldn't move. I couldn't breathe. I couldn't talk. I was filled with terror because what I had been saying all along that Sue Bermon was the key to this case, most likely was true. And now the woman was dead. Susan Bermen getting murdered is why I'm here now, because A, I didn't want anything to happen to Gilbert, and I also think that there's too many things that don't add Well, I'm just not very much for a coincidence.

It would certainly stimulate me if I was spearheading this case today. A spokesman for the LAPD told us they were aware of the Durst angle and believes it deserves attention in the Berman investigation. It is ironic that just at the point as your investigators feel they're now ready to confront Susan Bermon, she's murdered. It's more than ironic. It's shocking, it's disturbing, it's frustrating, because if someone is being silenced because they might have had information, we will find out what that information was. One of the things investigators wanted to know was if Susan Berman knew anything about the mysterious phone call to the medical school dean. Was it Kathy Durce that made the phone call to the dean? Do I believe it now? Yeah. Gut. No. Some other female made that call. That would be one variable, yeah. Susan Berman? I won't go there. If it was Susan Berman helping Robert Ders cover up what happened, would she have told the police? Berman's friend, Julie Smith, doesn't think so. When she told me about Kathleen Ders' disappearance, I asked her flat out, Do you think Bobby did it? And she said, Absolutely not. He didn't do it.

And that is the story she told me about that. If in her heart she believed differently, she would never in a million years have ratted Bobby out, not for any reason. Really? Why are you so certain of that? She had that mob loyalty. Bobby was her friend, and he was her friend for life. Investigators also wanted to ask Bermon about $50,000 Robert Durst gave her as either a gift or a loan within months of her murder. But Bermon's friend, Kim Langeford, says this was normal for Bermon, who borrowed money from many of her friends. That's what she would do. She'd borrow money, and she always was... She was just vigilant about paying it back. And Langeford insists there was nothing strange about receiving money from their mutual friend, Bob Durst. The bottom line is he loved Susan, and she loved him. Bobby has always been so nice and good. And as to his possible role in his wife's disappearance? Bobby had nothing to do with it. And that, to me, remained true and still remains true. I don't think Bobby would kill an aunt. He's a very, very sensitive person. Do you actually believe that Bob Durst was capable of murder?

I don't think he was capable of premeditated murder, but yes, I think that what I envision happening is that they had a fight, and he hit her, and she hit her head on the fireplace and died, and then he went into a panic. About what to do. That's why I really feel that someone else would have to know what happened because I don't think he would be capable of disposing of a body so well that it's never found. That may have been where Susan Bermond came in. Possibly. Your sister has been gone for a long time now. Yes. Do you consider your sister missing or murdered? Murded? I'm 99.9%, if not 100% sure she was murdered. As you sit here today, do you believe that Kathy Durst has been murdered? It would be hard to think otherwise. Did you think that at the time? No. Is Robert Durst a suspect? We're not ruling him in and we're not ruling him out. He certainly was a person who had the most information about Kathleen Durst. Well, he's also not cooperating with you, I understand. Right. Isn't that a bit odd? A man Your wife is missing for 20 years, and he won't even give you an interview?

Well, people have the right not to cooperate with us and not to speak for whatever reason, but that really isn't for me to say. Robert Durst is not cooperating with police and prosecutors, but still they have remained busy. Forensic testing has been done on portions of the South Salem home, and nearby Lake Truesdale has been dragged. But the question remains, if Kathy Durst is dead, what happened to her body? Sources say police investigators are looking south to a location on the Jersey shore, a place you've probably never heard of. Ship bottom, Durst, New Jersey. Any relevance to this case? Perhaps. Kathy Durst disappeared in the middle of the winter. Hard to bury a body in upstate New York that time of year. True. Is the terrain in Ship Bottom different than that? Sandy soil. Sandy soil doesn't hold water. It doesn't freeze. Police sources say that collect calls were made from a payphone in Ship Bottom, New Jersey, back to the Durst organization headquarters in New York two days after Cathy's disappearance. Could this be the perfect crime? There's no such thing as the perfect crime. With advanced technology, with DNA, with people who have an interest in speaking now who might not have spoken 20 years ago.

I have confidence in the system. I believe that sooner or later we will solve this case. But if she is to get to the bottom of it all, it will apparently be without the help of Robert Durst. We have tried to contact Mr. Durst through his attorney in New York, but both his lawyer and he have declined our numerous request for an interview. The closest we could get to Robert Durst was his office answering machine. Voice message system. Robert Durst.Is not available at the time. At a seaside community in northernmost California. But it is another body of water that may have drawn him. New York State police were called with a report he was seen standing on the dock of the South Salem home he once shared with Kathy. She was very vibrant. She was very vivacious. She was very beautiful. She was very intelligent. She was very warm and very caring, and the world lost something when we lost Kathy. This is Deborah Roberts with an update to this story. For years, there was little apparent movement in the disappearance of Kathy Durst or the murder of Susan Dirst Live. Then in 2015, an HBO documentary on Durst Live ended with an off-camera comment by Robert Durst that many interpreted to be self-incriminating in the deaths of both women.

The LA district Attorney's Office charged Durst with first-degree murder in Susan Bermans' death, saying the timing was coincidental, not related to the documentary. Durst was convicted in 2021. Meanwhile, Kathy Durst was declared legally dead in 2017. And in 2021, New York officials charged Durst in her murder, too. But Robert Durst never saw trial in Kathy's case. He died in a California prison in 2022. Thanks for listening to the 2020 True Crime Vault. Tune in Friday nights at 9:00 for all new broadcast episodes of 2020 on ABC.