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Howdy, hello. Wow. Remember the last episode when we said we had no idea what the world was going to look like next time we recorded? Well, now I know.

We know as of five minutes ago, everything's coming up daisies right now. My heart is racing really fast. And I was like, wait, should I have to get on zoom and talk to em right now?

Also, we like when we say we now know the results, what we mean is last time we talked to you, we were like, we have no idea because election is about to happen. And now we just found out, at least I just found out five minutes ago. So like this is happening in real time as everyone's finding out what the results were.

Yeah, Bleys told me like an hour ago about AP announcing it and I are calling it. And I was like, OK, but nobody's tweeting about it yet. So I don't want to, like, commit to my emotional state, you know? But then five minutes ago, like, all the news came on my phone at once and I was like, OK, we can all just like tweet about it now.

I was I was like getting ready to record or I was driving over to the studio and I was like, I'm not even I check my phone this morning because the last three mornings I've just been so disappointed wondering what I'm going to find out. And the second the day I decided not to check was when I was like, I'm just going to like, what time, what time of Myat and all these texts are coming in.

So very exciting. I'm I have been. Yeah.

Not sleeping. It's just been a rough I mean, everyone else knows it too.

It's been a rough week and I feel like a lot of things was put on hold. I mean, that's probably just not for everybody obviously.

But I feel like I agree. I would agree. Things just were kind of quiet on the weekend. And I just feel like John King from CNN was just like playing through my dreams constantly.

I was just like it was just sitting and. Wait, you're serious?

My fate was so and I was just saying how, like, I'm truly the most impatient person I've ever met.

And I like is this year trying to, like, teach me something because I can't promise I'll learn it, but I get it.

I get the hit. It's been a long anyway, I'm very happy. I assume you are also very happy. Actually, I'm pissed. Yeah. Have we never discussed our political views?

My favorite is when people we literally just posted like go vote and everyone was like your failed political opinion, first of all, is like we just said, go vote. OK, second of all, I'm like, it's not veiled. We're pretty fucking clear. Even we said register to vote.

We register those, register to vote, go register to vote. And everyone was like, no, your place, you're to entertain us.

OK, so one woman literally said, sit down and this is your job to entertain me.

And I went, Wolf, OK, there's a lot of problems. Please just please don't listen to us anymore, OK?

Anyway, it's not veiled where I feel like a little tiny gleam of hope has entered the room. Yeah, we're on the side of, like, more human rights. So I hope that doesn't upset you. If it does, good for you.

You can go see my tweet and I it applies to you as well. What exactly does Bayridge anyway? I also have a new update that you already know, but that's a big news.

Big news, big news. What is it? There is a new furry member of the. And that's why we drink family.

Finally, we can talk about it. Oh, my gosh. What do I do? I get to the Third World. So he's kind of running around the house.

OK, we got another kitten, everybody, and he's very sweet. And it was a very quick decision.

It wasn't like I've been you know, I don't make long decisions.

I was going to say I thought you were about to say, I don't make quick decisions. I was like, you're such a liar. It's so bad.

Like I as I said, I'm very impatient and so blase. And I went on that, like, murder cabin trip, remember, for our anniversary.

And, well, we're going to start OK. Yeah, that's how most of my decisions start and plays.

And I were there and my mom and sister were watching Juniper and I was just like he seems like my mom was like, yeah, he's kind of like moping around. And I was like, we should get him a little friend or somebody so that when we leave town, go or put you in daycare like he has another cat friend. I mean, now Jennifer saying, I did not ask for this.

Well, you know, Linus, it's his turn because God certainly said I did not ask for this when Jennifer got there. So that's exactly we're just it's a full circle now. But also you I know I don't mean to cut you off, but I know now you have been telling me literally since you got Juniper, that blaze was like kind of hinting that he wanted another cat.

So, yeah, he wanted another dog. So I compromise. And I was like, that's a lot of a lot right now. And not that cats aren't a lot, but yeah, you're right. Like he wanted. And so the second I decided it and I was like, let's do it now, he was like, OK, he actually literally just texted me and said, so he has a cold the cat or Bleys the cat.

OK, so he's bringing it.

So he sniffles a lot, but he's bringing him up for in case you want to see him.

I do, but yeah. So basically his name is Mooney and the reason is that we wanted a Kentucky name. OK, by the way, I live in northern Kentucky.

Also surprise people. I'm not really sure which is five minutes from Cincinnati, so.

Technically, you are walking distance from Cincinnati. Yeah, from downtown. So people got very confused, as if I moved again or whatever.

So we wanted a Kentucky name. So we decided to name him Moonshine Mooney for sure. Then we realize that rhymed with Jouni. Then we were like, I guess it's stuck now. And then we found out that the cat's name was serious, like serious black. And so it's another Harry Potter name. So anyway, he's very sweet.

He has a cold. They found him behind a dumpster at a bar, which, as I said, seems pretty fitting on both counts for me.

And he was had a little cold. He didn't have a mommy or any siblings, and he was just there by himself. And he was really sick and was like covered in fleas and was missing his first. Of course, I read this and I was like, this is my cat. I need to save him.

So you so it's Mooney and Jouni University. Is that on the list?

And he's no, it wasn't because we said moonshine. And then I was like, oh God, they rhyme and he's all black. OK, hold on. Here he is.

Also, he believes he can hear me, but. OK, only so anything put on my headphones.

Oh, OK, here he is, an anxious little one.

He's just very squirrelly. And so baby, he's all black. So he's really chaotic and he likes to climb things. And he and Joe are currently kissing.

Oh, the exact inverse of Jouni, just like literally just like you. If you did a color like complete inverse computer, once the kitty is bigger, they're going to look like complete opposites.

But anyway, say a sniffle. So he's probably just going to run around here. But anyway, sorry, that's my that's my news of the of the day.

I was nervous. I was going to say we have a new member of the family. But then I remembered that when we did this, when I moved in, we have huge news. And then we didn't say it for like 15 minutes.

And people had like I pulled a Michael Scott on everyone. But you know what? I don't I don't regret it either, because we both know I'm theatric as fuck.

So, yeah, we needed everyone to turn up the volume and not skip ahead. Yeah, I needed it. I did it for the dramatic flair. And you know what? I work. I stand by it, so. Yeah, yeah. You're welcome. I am a little upset because we Alison and I had narrowed our hypothetical dog names down to moon pie.

Oh, I forgot about that. Well, this works. This is a in moon pie. That would be cute. OK, wait a minute.

OK, we didn't plan that, but maybe we should pretend like I'm sorry, I didn't mean to steal your name.

I just. I didn't even think about that. No, no, no. We're going to we're going to tell everyone who's listening to this right now. You didn't hear this conversation later. When we say we plan this on purpose, you're going to smile and nod. Yes. And it was Ms. Inspiration.

Let's let's say that. Sure. I'm not going to name any. Oh, and I is also and also. Hi, Blaze.

I'm sorry for that chaos.

I only have one more thing. Do you have anything else to say? And no, I don't want to think that is the thing that you're going to say. The thing that we're both announcing. Oh no.

Do you want to say that one first? Uh, sure. So we have found our way back to Cameo. Stay away for a long time. So people for a long time been asking why we left Cameo or how come we're no longer you know, why you weren't offering videos? And it has been just a logistical issue on our end where because we are Christine and I are now in a long distance relationship and ah, yep, yep, yep.

We wanted, you know, to do a cameo together as one unit and so we could only make cameo videos whenever Christine was in town. But cameo on our end if let's say you request one from us, we only have seven days to fulfill it. And so sometimes Christine wasn't going to be here for a whole month. And so it just never was never it was weird like, do we turn it off except for the one week or Christine's in town?

And so it was just kind of confusing. But we've been talking to the camera people and we are now going to have separate cameo accounts just to make things more accessible to you, even though we won't be a package deal in your video, at least now you will have access to videos from us to one or both of us. Yes.

Yeah, we did it that way because people were, you know, saying like, hey, we want like a message for someone so and so's birthday or, you know, whatever, whatever.

And so now I guess our podcast page is going to link to both of our separate accounts, which I mean, obviously it looks like we broke up and we like created separate accounts.

We did this. Maybe we just do like like veiled insults at each other on our cameo of, like, her and her and her cats and then me and my theatrics.

Actually, that would be really fun. Yeah. So we apologize. I know, like most people obviously would want it, you know, and we would want it prefer it together, but it just wasn't feasible.

But we are, you know, brainstorming. So hopefully we can figure something out. Yeah.

We've thought of ways of like what if I what if we face like and then like upload it. But that didn't work out like we tried that.

Yeah. But then I had to like go on, I had to like download première and like resize the video. It was just every video took like an hour to edit, it just got really wild. So this is unfortunately the only way we can do it. But fortunate enough that we can do it at all. So. Yes, exactly.

So that's that. And then the last thing I wanted to say, which actually this is sent in by a listener and it just like warmed my soul.

And speaking of, you know, a new kitty, this is an email from Justin who I might cry.

I'm sorry. This just makes me very emotional.

OK. Oh, where's the they're they're calm down there. It's fine. Joe Biden, the president. Joe Biden is president.

Oh, that's weird. President elect technically. But close. Look, I don't know where the page went. Oh, I'm just going to read this part.

So Justin wrote in and said, I'm a. That's why I drink long time listener, semi recent Patreon donor and first time writing, I have a resource to share with you because I've appreciated how you've given listeners access to safety resources when you tell particularly relevant stories of domestic violence comes up a lot with true crime.

And I know you've seen before that animals are not excluded from this equation. I thought you might like to know that there are services for animal survivors of domestic violence as well.

He says, I work for him.

I think it's called Ahimsa House or Humza House, which is a nonprofit based in Georgia that provides assistance for animal survivors of domestic violence. There's lots of programs across the country as well as internationally. A lot of time people don't realize that only around 12 percent of domestic violence shelters are able to help house pets. But over 60 percent of US households have pets.

So 50 percent of victims will delay seeking safety due to fear for the safety of their pet, which is something like you don't even think about necessarily.

But then all of a sudden it's like, holy shit, of course, like you wouldn't even like if the animal isn't I mean, this is kind of a sidestep, but even if the animals aren't being mistreated. But if you're being mistreated. But they're going to keep your pet from you. Oh, yeah. That's great for the pet, right?

Yeah, that's what they're saying. Like, if you're not sure where the pet you know, where your pets are going to go or if you're not able to take your pet to the shelter, then obviously like you're going to not want to leave them behind. Right, exactly.

So that's that's true. Like, not even necessarily if, you know, the pet is being abused, but if if you have to leave the pet behind to seek safety.

Right.

So that's I just thought that was really cool. And he said everyone is affected when there's domestic violence, including the pets. As an animal lover, I thought you might appreciate knowing that survivors can find info about local pet friendly domestic violence shelters and resources through a safe place for pets. Dog So. And there's just bark.

That's a little signature of approval there. Exactly. So I thought that was really cool. And he says over 90 percent of the pets we assist are able to go back home with their families at the end of their time with us all.

So I just. Thank you, Justin.

Thank you.

Should I wish I had looked up a heems are ahimsa house HIMSS and that was just really touching. And he also included a story that I meant to print. But it's it's kind of long, so I'll probably just leave it at that.

But he printed a story of like a case, you know, where a woman was had this situation happen and they were able to foster the dog and the her abuser was trying to get custody of the dog. Since the dog was microchip under his name, it was really difficult for her to say, like, no, I want to take, you know, oh, my gosh. Saying so.

They worked really hard to, like, give her resources and legal aid and like, you know, she was able to get full custody of her dog back.

And so it was just really touching story. So is something you don't really think about also?

I've certainly never thought about, like, you know, the legalities of like whose name is on the microchip for custody. Yes. That's isn't the specific thing, but. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. So thank you, Justin. I know.

Thanks, Justin. That was really cool. And I'm just appreciative that you reached out and let me share that on the podcast.

So, yeah. Good resource to have lots of announcements today there.

Endless truly. My goodness.

OK, well shall we. That's it. That's it. On my end I'm done like just, you know, throwing up words all over you.

I love your mug. Tell everyone about that. I keep meaning to mention that to you. This I like how I just said I'm done talking. Here's my paper on the bottom of it.

This is my Mothman mug from its little pastel Mothman.

My people, I, I don't know.

All I know is I saw it, I, I'm sure I saw it on Red Bubble. That's where I get most of your Mothman stuff. And I think this is a look.

Human purchase. Oh you're right. It is look human because the design I've seen on there and every time I see it I'm like, should I buy more of the Mothman design?

I think I saw that and I screamed. I was like, there's literally nothing I've ever seen that's more pristine in my entire life. I'm like, it's so cute. What's funny is I think we probably have mentioned this before on the show, but Christine Evea and I have all many times said, like, we cannot buy any more mugs like this is yes, it's disgusting.

It's a rule when you add up all the mugs that we have combined, we have enough for the entire nation, I'm sure. And then every Christmas or birthday, I'm like, they need a fucking mug.

Oh, yeah. Actually, this particular birthday, you gave me two mugs at one time and I was like, have you not only broke the rule by accident, you, like, broke the rule and then went, well, it's like ice.

That's OK. No worries. But no ice. I saw you're correct. I saw one mug and then I was like, huh? And then I saw two mugs. I was like, well, I know the roll, but I'm going to quickly step right over.

You are very it was very like Emma Christine move. You already crossed the line.

So you were like, I might as well go like as hard as I can see how tiny I can make it on the other side. I just want to walk as far away as possible.

What was the other mug I'm trying to remember? It's somewhere I think it's I, I'm trying to remember. It's one of the mugs. It's. Put you on the spot, no, no, it's I think it's another like cryptid type mug, I think it was like but also from, look, human, who cares?

It was probably unnecessary, but also just wildly essential, wildly zengel.

And look, I use it. So it's mouth man. It's excellent.

It's my favorite thing if you'd like to look like Christine when you drink your coffee, go to look human. They did not pay us to shop them, but they are the first place I look for gifts for Christine. So they have some great stuff. This holiday season, more people will be mailing stuff than ever before, me included, I know when it comes to the holidays, I plan on probably shipping all of my Christmas presents versus just going to hand them to people like in previous years.

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So some places like don't give you an automated, like, shipping label, not going to call out names, but some places don't. So I've had to actually ship stuff myself, which is driving me crazy. And thank God I have stamps.com. I brag about it all the time to everybody I know because Stamps.com basically brings the service to the U.S. Post Office and the UPS write to computer. So whether you're a small office sending out invoices and online seller of fulfilling orders during this record setting holiday season, as said, or even a giant warehouse that sends out thousands of packages a day, Stamps.com can handle it all with ease.

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Christine, my armpits don't smell today, they probably smell lovely. Yes, they still smell bad. They smell like native deodorant. Well, exactly, yeah, I imagine I imagine they kind of always do.

Yes, I do. Mine that's one of the few things I have and I have in common is our love for for native deodorant on both of our armpits.

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So native never uses ingredients that shouldn't be in deodorant like aluminum, parabens, sulfates or talc, which like after I started using Native, I was like, I don't think I ever want to put those things in my body again just in case.

And their candy cane gifts, that makes a great gift option. I know last year, Blaze's mom put native deodorant in all our in all our stockings, which was really sweet.

And they're great stocking stuffers for everyone on your list. Can can confirm, highly recommend, can confirm. Today, my armpits smell like candy cane because that is their new holiday scent lately. And I can't stop huffing my own armpits. I'm just like, wow, what a winter wonderland in there. So give the gift of native by going to native dot.com slash drink or use promo code Drinka check out and get twenty percent off your first order.

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OK, so this is part two today of werewolves on own. I at the end of the last episode I gave you a smattering if you will, which is just a word I either love or hate. Can't figure out. Yeah, a smattering of werewolf stories specifically from the age of the werewolf trials. But just to kind of tease you into this week. So let me now tell you what. The werewolf trials were fantastic. So the werewolf trials, they occurred throughout Europe from the fifth, the 15th to the eighteenth century.

And it was people were on trial, they're being accused of that word, I don't know if I pronounced lycanthropy.

Yes. So I just heard an episode of law where he talked about that a little bit. Oh, perfect.

Is it pronounced like and said lycanthropy? Yes. Excellent. Well, I'm going to Tressler. So, yeah, they're being accused of lycanthropy, which is turning into a werewolf, at least in the sense I think now. And like more modern psychology, there's clinical lycanthropy, which is more of a delusion of turning into a werewolf, not actually shapeshifting into one, I think, depending on who you ask.

I guess if you ask me, I'm going to say turning into a werewolf is very valid.

So, yeah. So that's what they're being accused where this started originally in Switzerland. But it then moved into mainly France and Germany and the Balkans. And so peasants at the time were still practicing a lot of paganism throughout Europe and I guess they were regularly being accused of casting spells on other people. So something wasn't going your way. You could blame the peasants for casting a spell on you because one of them practiced witchcraft in your town.

Yeah, they still do that to this day. Right, exactly.

We're at it again. There they are. Gosh, can't get can't get them away from me. So the authorities throughout Europe were becoming more God-Fearing throughout this period. And so they were interpreting any potential witchcraft as say or any spell casting or any pagan acts as like satanic witchcraft, which were and they were put to death. So it's very similar to the witch trials, actually. There's one reference to werewolf's in a book called Witchcraft Lycanthropy, Drugs and Disease, an anthropological study of the European witch hunt.

Oh, my. Did you read the whole book?

The whole thing. Can you. I did it in like five minutes. So which is the craziest part. That's incredible. Here's my favorite excerpt of the many pages.

I absolutely right. Here's a quote.

A woman in Switzerland was beheaded and 14 59 for turning herself into a wolf and causing an avalanche while in the company of the devil. That's a lot for one sentence, I think a lot.

I think that was actually one of the very first occurrences of werewolf's during these trials. So let me say it again. A woman in Switzerland was beheaded in 14 59 for turning herself into a wolf, thus causing an avalanche.

I don't understand the relation there. And obviously the devil was by her side the whole time. So obviously, that's just like one little clip of what people were dealing with back then, thank God.

So the trials were fueled for like anything. So it could be politics. It could be like a complete, like, negligence to mental illness. It could be you just didn't like the person or like the fear of the devil. So for any reason, you could, like, accuse someone of either being a witch or a werewolf. Right. It could have also been drugs, apparently. And 1045, the pope's physicians, they tested this ointment, which you're going to hear about this ointment a lot.

Apparently, a lot of people said that they were becoming werewolves because of this ointment that they were given.

Oh, no.

And so the pope's physicians tested this ointment and later on it was found out that it did create the sensation of flying or growing fur.

Oh, so what do we know? What was in it? I don't know. I don't even know what it was called. Everyone just said this ointment. But what's so the pope's physician tested it in 15, 45, but they didn't actually come out and like, say, the results for almost 100 years.

Oh. So they were just like, we're holding onto this little secret. I don't know if they were holding on. I don't know if they never knew or like they put it on the back burner and then, like, tested it one hundred years later. Oh, I see. It wasn't necessary. I don't really understand. But a hundred years later, it was confirmed that this ointment was like causing delusions or hallucinations.

Maybe they just wanted to keep going with the idea that werewolves like werewolves were real and they didn't want to like they really like this ointment. They're like, no, no, no, this is too juicy.

We can't. Yeah, I bet. I mean, it makes sense.

It makes sense to me. Obviously, if I were in charge of a country and people thought that they could turn into mythical creatures, that's the story I'm going to run with. Yeah. Yeah. And we don't need science to back that one up, especially if you have the power.

Although I also wonder what if the physicians tested it and then they were like, I'm a werewolf.

And then they were like, well shit, now we can't like say, hey, we became werewolves actually a genius or what if they really believed? And they're like, well, we don't want people thinking the old man caused this. Yeah.

Also that. Yeah, a lot of options here. A lot of drama. I love it. Someone. Like a spec script on that of like physicians in the hundreds testing out their own ointment and becoming.

That's excellent. That's excellent. That right there. That's a little history, a little action, a little Mystere sci fi. Oh, my God. Oh, my gosh. I could definitely be on the Syfy network. That's my mother.

OK, so the church's official stance in the 15th century about this was that werewolves were bad because they were pagan. So it wasn't necessarily that they didn't appreciate werewolves. It was because it was not Christian. Got it. That was basically it. That makes sense. So you can't be gay. Campy werewolf. You get it.

I mean I mean, those are the two only the two things that I want.

The Bible is actually only one sentence and Jesus said you can't be gay. Orrible, except he also read this in five seconds. That's true. But see, there's a lot of hypocrisy. And that's that's it. That's the hypocrisy. Yep.

You got it. So many of the. Oh, so that I was saying that they didn't like it because it was pagan, but by the end of these werewolf trials it wasn't necessarily because they didn't it wasn't necessarily that they didn't like where it was because it was pagan. They didn't like werewolves at this point because they were in league with Satan. And so it had really morphed into like it's a completely anti Christian. It was like, ha, we don't like it because it doesn't work with our beliefs.

And over a hundred years or so, it was like, oh, no, no, like this is the devil.

So they're like active enemies now. Yeah. So the story had had grown into something a little worse. Many of the werewolves who were sentenced were put to death also for witchcraft just because they seem to go perfectly hand in hand. And in six, eight, King Henry, the fourth of France, actually commissioned a French judge to wipe out, quote, witchcraft, werewolf, free and heresy all at the same time.

Oh, my. So it wasn't just like this little thing that was, you know, hidden news. People were like, actually super scared of werewolves. And also they were scared of witches, too. So for the king to literally find a judge to be like sentence all of them to death, you know, pretty intense. Yeah. So the judge that he hired was named Peter DeLong, and he was a witch hunter, again, hired by the king.

And apparently he was real fuckin merciless. So no one was safe.

He would torture people, men, women, children, priests, even if priests were accused of it. This guy was like, I'm not about it. I will find a way to extract the information from you. So he also, like a lot of confessions, were done in duress. So a very much like the witch trials were like people were saying they were, which just to get out of torture and then like it backfired and they ended up getting executed because, like, you don't.

Yeah, it's just like a lose lose situation. Yeah.

And so his, quote, work, if we want to call it that, resulted in the execution of 600 people, what, in just three years.

Oh, my God.

What were the I mean, I swear to God, they're just like back then running around like. They're just like, you're a werewolf, you're a werewolf, you're a witch, you're both, you're both. So during lying during his apparently, quote, torture sessions, he would ask his victims about their carnal encounters with demons. Oh, gross. And confessions, like I just said, often came after long bouts of questioning that we're definitely involved with torture.

And his methods were so brutal that he was actually removed from his position as a judge and the remaining trials were dismissed. Because I my guess is they were like, wow, we've probably executed a lot of people that this guy just decided was a werewolf. Yeah. Like maybe we should just halt this altogether.

At a certain point, they were probably like, I know we're probably in danger for our lives if we fire him, but also like it's like it's going to go.

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So actually according to that judge before he got his position taken away from him, any moral slight was worthy of being clocked as witchcraft or werewolf free, which I didn't learn was a word until this. But so I think they realized, like, oh, he's really just accusing and killing everybody because these were things that warranted you to be under investigation. Right.

Quote, to dance indecently to excessively.

My Asby details were screwed to make love diabolically. OK. Oh, dear. Yeah, I see. This is all very subjective.

Like also how is he is he a fly on the wall? How does he know how your dad was doing that.

Torgeir, ask you about demon sex. So I guess maybe he was just like pervy and was like, I need more details.

Not shocked at all if that was like, you know, to commit atrocious acts of sodomy. OK, so he was wow.

OK, that just jumped a lot of levels. Yeah. Yeah. Blast's blasphemous to be blasphemous or scandalous, to avenge themselves insidiously, to run after all horrible, dirty and crudely unnatural desires, definitely homophobic, to keep toads of vipers, lizards and all sorts of poison as precious things.

So if you're a biology major, sorry, or if you just have like a pet Komodo dragon, if you have a will come out dragon.

Oh, no. Or if you love passionately a goat and caress him lovingly. Oh, dear. So if you're a farmer, you're also in trouble.

So yeah, if you're a little too lovey with that goat, I don't think. Oh if you're, if you're to love.

Yes. But if you were I would be nervous if I just had a goat at this time in my life. That's true. I'd be like I don't know, I don't know, I don't know that iguana and I don't know.

But I'm sorry to tell you, I've never seen that lizard in my life. I hate to say it. I don't know this to me. I don't mean to sound ridiculous. I don't know this lizard at all. He could walk down the street, OK, so maybe that's the history and all the rest of these are just little stories from that time. So, OK, so I'm doing them in chronological order just to give myself some routine in this.

So this one is from this one's called the Gane Dillane or Gandhian werewolf's. It was a girl and her 15 year old brother, they were both attacked by a wolf. The brother's name was Benowa. Benowa saw a wolf attacking his sister, so he ran over and tried to stabbed to death. The crowd chased the wolf away and the girl died at the scene.

And Ben had died from injuries later on. Oh, no. Before he died, he said that he had attacked the wolf on its paws, but it looked like hands, like a man's hands. And they were covered with hair. Oh, jeez. So the town immediately believed that it was this one person named Perrini Gandhian Gwendoline. And apparently they were found to have a wound on their hand, the exact same place as the wolf. And that was suspicious enough for there.

Like you have a wound on your hand. You must be a werewolf.

And Ben was on his deathbed, like, I just want to cause some final chaos before I go. So I really want to stir shit up.

I was going to say my last pot stirring. And so rumors in town.

Apparently before this, people were looking for a reason to get this paranoid, a person in trouble because they're looking their whole family was already rumored to be witches. Oh, come on.

And so they basically the crowd gathered up the whole family. It was led by this one guy named Henry Bogot, who was another terrible witch hunter, and he, I guess, had a vendetta against the family. I was like, I've been wanting to catch them for a long time as witches. I know that's a werewolf. Let's just go on. So he the way he backed this up and justified his reasoning, the witch hunter was he said that one time he had seen them all on all fours barking and howling and covered in mysterious scratches.

And when he questioned the family about it, they confessed to witchcraft, which like I don't think they did. Yeah.

He's just like, you know, I heard it with my own two ears. Yeah. I just walked up to them one day and then they got on all fours and said they were witches, like, yeah, I don't think so.

I don't think so. And then the or whatever they did.

And they were like, no one's going to believe you. If they were actually just a whole family of Bill Murray's, they were just like no one will ever believe what I'm about to do.

I'm sad that I'm not part of that family. I'm would not be surprised if Bill Murray has gone on all fours and ran around somewhere in the world. No, me neither. If you guys haven't watched the documentary, no one will ever believe you. Please go watch it about.

I've never seen it like I know the story, but I've never seen it. I think I watched it when we were on tour and it was like an airplane documentary and it was very weird. I was like, why on earth is this? What's happening?

But if you don't know about Bill Murray's lifestyle, you must he chooses to approach random people and do ridiculous shit. And then he'll say no one will ever believe you. And then he walks away and everyone's got some weird Bill Murray story about me except me, but everyone except me. The main one in the documentary was that he like crashed like a frat party or something and like partied with them for like five days and like got wildly fucked up and then was like, no one will ever believe you anyway.

So there's another story that is not about Bill Murray. So this one is in France in fifteen, twenty one. And this guy, his name was Peter. So it was about Peter and then another guy named Michael and they were known as the Werewolves of Polygamy. No, not polygamy. Polygamy with an outnumbered maybe maybe it's a French town that I'm mispronouncing, but I see.

OK, well I g and Y sounds a lot like polygamy to me. So they were accused of lycanthropy. Basically, this one guy was attacked by a wolf and he the wolf ended up running away. So the guy tried to track down the wolves. You could kill him once and for all. And it ended up leading him to this guy, Michael's house. And Michael, he knocked on the door to be like, hey, have you seen a wolf in your area?

And Michael was found dripping blood. And so he was arrested and under torture, confessed that he was a werewolf. He said that he wasn't the only werewolf, though. So if he's going to go down, although the werewolves are going down with them. So we said there's another werewolf that you would want to talk to. His name is Peter.

So that's the sort of boy, throw him under the bus. So I'll only like halfway into his trial, Peter made a full blown confession. He said he became a werewolf one night while he was struggling in a storm to hurt his sheep. And three mysterious people dressed in black approached and said that if he accepted the devil as his master, the sheep would be OK.

Oh, well, in that case, these must have been sheep that were worth gold because special sheep was like, that sounds like an excellent deal. So he, like he took himself out of I think he was Catholic and so he renounced Catholicism he likes. Like the devils, my savior and the sheep were fine, so that sheep are much like Juniper, we're like we didn't ask for this, but I think the sheep are just staring at him in the store and being like, this is what's going on.

Yeah. So we're only two years later, he was like, I'm tired of like not going to church. I'm tired of the devil being my master. And I guess the mysterious group found out because all of a sudden Michael approached Peter. And I guess Michael was also part of this like devil worshipping group. And they sent Michael out to go talk to Peter and try to coax him back into the life, if you will. And he basically they were trying.

I don't know why LaPier was so special, like why he needed to be the one that continued worshipping Satan. But Michael promised him money and said, like, if you come out to the forest, like, I'll show you, like something that'll make you want to stay.

And so Michael took him out to the woods.

They did a ceremony and they gave Peter this ointment. Oh, boy. Here we go. And they basically said, OK, get naked, rub this all, love yourself.

And now you're a werewolf. He's like, trust me, trust me, just do it. He was like, this is a good thing. You're going to see worth it.

So they begin, like, regularly going into the forest together, getting naked sounds a little good to me. And then they would just rub ointment all over each other and become like a fun time.

I mean, I'm assuming that they're hallucinogens in this ointment, so I'm thinking like they're partying it up.

Well, so remember, this was and so this was 15, 21. So for like another 20 years, the pope wasn't even going to test this ointment. So no. Yes. And nobody knew that there was like a side effect where you were going to think your growing hair and flying and shit.

So if it was specific and random, like, can you imagine watching a PSA commercial?

Cause it's like side effects may include think you've grown a lot of hair, but not growing a lot of hair. Yeah. Yeah.

And flying around. Just don't worry about it. Well, so then they started having regular meet ups where they would go into the woods and they would rub women on each other and become werewolves. But part of their little hangouts is that they would also kill people. So.

Oh, dear. OK, that's not good. So that was fun.

Until then, to be clear, that part, I'm like, I'm out, I'm out. I imagine here we are like, look, I'm not really sure about this. And then you, like, decide you're going to go to one meeting in the forest. Then you realize you're a werewolf. You're like, holy shit, this is actually not this is pretty cool. And then the next meeting, they're like, OK, but now we're going to kill people too.

And peers like this is worth it for my sheep.

I don't understand. It's probably like I'm into deep at this point. Like I can't back out now. What are you going to say? Oh, don't worry. We were here for several days, so don't worry about that part.

But then we cross the line is like even I don't know what's going on anymore. So there's no way I can explain this to late man. So they started running through for us.

They would kill lost travelers and children. Oh, they confessed to killing three children at different times. Agricultural workers, a woman who was gathering vegetables, the man who tried to rescue her and a goat, not the goat, were the sheep.

You did this for this sheep.

And now look what you've done so far. Apparently, they would tear out people's throats, they would drink their blood. And they have confessed to bestiality, which I'm I'm confused. I don't know if that means they were doing things to like the goat and like actual animals or each other because they thought they were wolves.

Oh, I get it. You know, it was the beast reality with other werewolves.

Well, it sounds like it was to these sheep are these goats, because they were very somehow attached to these animals.

That's true. Let's hope it's not that unhealthy obsession with these animals.

My thought is like, if you're already running off to go get naked together and rely on each other, maybe the maybe Bisciotti is the wrong word can get your help. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe you just mean gay sex, but just fine.

Yeah, maybe. I mean I hope that's what it was because I'd prefer that over. You know, I hope if the sheep were involved they were just like awkwardly just watching the whole time. Yeah. So two notes when Pierre was being was on trial for all of this, because remember he was telling this whole backstory. She did make sure he wanted everyone to know. He could not explain what would happen to his wolf hair when he shaved, shifted back to human form, he would just vanish.

Oh, I was like very important to him for everyone to know for sure. Also, he said he had to become naked to become a werewolf, but Michael could do it with his clothes on. What? So apparently it wasn't a strong enough werewolf. He needed the extra step. Someday. So those are the werewolves of polygamy, the next one announced, like Polanyi, pulling something Polish Polish and I don't know, I'm just being stupid. Not quite, but pulling OK, like, I think that's Italian.

I think bowling is OK. OK, moving on. What if at this point, any French person who heard me saying that has been mad for the last 50 minutes?

That's true. We're not going to get them back. It's too late. It's too late. They already turn us off. So the next one is in France and fifteen seventy three who this one. The werewolf is called the hermit of Dohle. Their name is also Gilles Garnier. OK, and Garnier turn into a werewolf and attacked a 10 year old in a vineyard and dragged her away. Then he stripped her naked and ate her alive. What from the thighs to the arms.

OK, Wolf.

And then brought the rest of the flesh back to his wife, I guess for dinner.

I don't know. Oh, maybe she. It's like when I go to the gas station and I know Alison's going to want me to buy a Reese's for her. So, yes, do it. He was like just like that. My wife is going to be so jealous if I don't bring back some raw human. Yeah. Oh God. So he apparently killed another girl, wounding her in five places, both chased off by three men. A week later, he also attacked a boy and dragged him into the woods.

But he got caught because in the middle of eating the boy alive, he turned back into a human who he suddenly realized what was happening.

The drugs were off, right.

God, who knows what part of that story is true? Hopefully none of it sounds like bath salts story all over again. I mean, it does. That's what I keep thinking. Do I thought that a few times when I was doing this research disturbing Garner was tortured to extract a confession.

He admitted that he was just really poor and so he would forage in the woods. And one day he came across a shadow man who offered him an ointment. So he turned it would turn them into a wolf, which allowed him to hunt more effectively. And he confessed to murdering four children while being a werewolf so that he and his wife could eat and he was burning alive at the stake.

I mean, if you if he actually did murder and eat for children, like, sure, that person probably needs some justice.

But, yes, it just makes you wonder, like, if they're being tortured, like, did they actually do this or is this like an accusation unfounded?

I don't know. The worst part about all this is I have no idea what parts of my story the stories are true. So hopefully these are all just like random, like folklore. But I imagine someone has been killed for witchcraft, probably like court records for some of it.

I mean, just like there are for the witch trials.

Right. Right. I'm sure. Yeah. I wonder also with these stories, my thought is I wonder, like when they get so fantastical, if they're just like being tortured and they're like, let me tell you the tale and run like Rumpelstiltskin style.

I don't really remember that story, but I feel like you just totally talk. It's just kind of like just trying to come up with something to make it sound real.

And so, yeah, let you entertain you at least to stop the torture. A lot of artistic license.

Yeah. Yes. Also where like someone should be going into the woods and looking for this like weird shadowy figure who is just has like a bottle of ointment and nothing else who's it's pretty much for free.

It's Michael and pure. It must be. They were just out there.

Know it's it's just shocking where everyone's like, oh, in the shadow figure who had nothing but a bottle of ointment to his name. It's like, let's go find that guy. Like, who is this guy who is offering all this, like weird werewolf serum. OK, free, by the way, for free.

You sound like he's charging I, I have the next one. I'm going to actually save to the last because that's like arguably the biggest werewolf. So I've got a couple more real quick. So in fifteen ninety eight in France there was a guy named Jack Roulette. Apparently he was convicted of lycanthropy. Peasants in the area found a nude mutilated body of a 15 year old boy. Oh, fuck. Super gross. His limbs were still pulsing.

So it was a very fresh kill. No.

And as peasants got closer, apparently two wolves ran off. And so they thought, OK, a wolf attacked this kid. Let's go chase after the wolves, the wolves disappeared. But out of the same bushes came this tall man. This was not the same man with ointment. Not the shadowman, not the shadowman. This guy was Jack Roulet. He was a tall man and torn up rags. His hands were bloody. And apparently there was like human skin under his fingernails, like, oh, so they were like, OK, this guy fucking did it.

So they brought him to the local magistrate. And Jack said that he was a beggar. He was begging with his two brothers named John and Julian, which I love, that all three of them are Jews, that the others did not use every single one of them, the the doggers, he said the Ducker's how all 19 of their kids are named with the letter J. I think those are a little too exotic, though, Jack, John and Julian.

Yeah, yeah. Well, a little too exotic. They weren't like, yeah, they're not Arkansas enough the.

But so JAXA that he worshiped the devil ever since he was a kid, his parents gave him a special eight, maybe as the child of the shadow man. And this ointment made him turn into a wolf that was specifically hungry for humans. He said that the two wolves that people saw were his brother and his cousin, Jack and Julian, and he confessed to killing and eating children with his family because they were poor beggars who were hungry. He was able to give precise dates and times for crimes that actually had happened, which is so gross.

So like that one feels more real to me. Yeah, that's not good. He did receive the death penalty for werewolf ism, cannibalism and murder, but he appealed his conviction, saying that he gave his conviction under duress or he gave his confession under duress and he was sentenced instead to a mental hospital for insanity.

So this guy gets off the guy, other people, the guy with arguably the most like the more airtight story. Yeah, more factual statements.

Yeah, this is that's disturbing. I also like under duress. I can't believe they had that back then.

You can appeal to say you are under duress, but like nobody else, they're not like, oh but all these other people who are their fingernails were torn off like this guy was just a vagabond and a lawyer is the difference.

He knew, though, I knew that he was a vagabond and lawyer and a wolf also. And also it also like almost a dozen or so like it's he's got a lot on his resume.

God, he's really a cool guy. And 16 03, there was a Jean Grenier in France also. And so children in the area had started to disappear from the fields. Apparently, one baby was even taken from its cradle and witnesses started coming forward, including a 13 year old who said she was attacked by a wolf under a full moon and another kid who said that they were watching cattle and and they were taken by a wolf. And this guy, John Jean-Rene, he was heard like bragging that he was behind the attacks.

Oh, shit.

He they also connected him to being a wolf because apparently he was hitting on this girl and she said that he looked like she wasn't interested because he was so dirty. And the guy was like, I'm not dirty. I just wolf skin because I needed to become a werewolf. Like that was his way of hitting on her of like, oh, this you've got it all wrong. I'm not I'm not dirty. I'm just a wolf.

Oh. Oh, my God.

And so they kind of connected him that way. And then he ended up elaborating that he was part of a pack of nine werewolves that hunted three times a week. It's like they have like a calendar, like a Google invite, like they probably do. Let's gather. Let's they're like, get on the survey, monkey. What day do you know? So we have some plans. So he also said that he loved to prey on young children because their flesh was most tender.

OK, Wolf, that's bad. I like how we're like she was like, I don't want. Do you? Because you're dirty also. Like now I don't want to die because you're a wolf. But now I definitely know what to do you because you're a murderer. Now she's like, am I supposed to be is this hot now?

Am I look into it. I don't think so. It's like I know I've said I like bad boys, but like, this is too much.

I regret that. So apparently he confessed to various murders and in each case he was able to give exact details again, which is terrible. The court showed clemency to him on account of his age and poor education. So they sent him to a church, to live areas. So he was allowed to go live in God's house. And sixteen, ten people went to go visit him. So only a couple of years after he was sent to live at the church, they said he looked completely different.

He had sunken black eyes. He had long teeth, which I don't know how your teeth grow, but we haven't seen him in seven years.

His teeth are so long these days.

I know he never gets some cut. I know. I wonder if like because maybe he was like not eating or starving.

I said, yeah, maybe a sunken eyes also. Like, I wonder if that's just a starvation. That's actually really sad and probably true. Yeah. Also his hands with like talons. Like I also is not getting his claws, his nails, his claws.

Who knows if he's a werewolf, but he also loved to run around on all fours and he loved to talk about wolves and he would only eat raw meat.

OK, so this guy also probably should have been sent to, like, get help because it sounds like. Yeah, it sounds like he had clinical lycanthropy where he thought he was a werewolf. Interesting. So there's that guy.

And then in sixteen ninety one there was an eighty year old man named TE's and he was tried for being a werewolf because his neighbors had a conspiracy theory that he was there just like a fucking guy. Police had brought him in on an unrelated matter and he just started fucking talking about being a werewolf. So like it ended up the neighbors were actually on to something. OK, all right.

That's not much of a concern for. See theory, though, if he's already telling you this, Wolf, yeah, I feel like you don't have to be hush about that if he's already approaching you and I'm assuming he would just start talking about it.

Sounds like that's all he wanted to talk about. Yeah. If I were going up to my neighbors and I was like, man, let me tell you about werewolves. I love being a werewolf. Werewolves are so great. I'm I there's nothing I love more than being a werewolf. The neighbors have a right to call the police.

The neighbors are like, there's something off about this guy. I can't put my finger on it, but something. So let's drop some red string on the cork board. But I have a hunch we're going to get somewhere around where somewhere. So the police brought him in on a random other situation and he did the same thing. And so the cops are like, OK, so this guy has no shame. No, he did say that his nose had been broken by a witch while he was a werewolf.

Oh, dear. Because he was preventing the crops from growing. So this sounds like he was one of those banned Netty Werewolf.

I think I'm saying the word.

I don't have the I don't know it. I think it was called Banza Nutty Wolves. But if you heard the last episode, these were specific werewolves who felt like they were tasked since birth to astral project into a world where they fought, which is to protect local crops, which, yeah, that's the funnest one, the most fun and somehow the least sensical.

Yeah, exactly. But so this sounds like like he thought he was Ben's nutty Wolf, I'm sure. And so he said that witches were preventing the crops from growing and because they were trying to draw the grains into hell, which like what is Satan going to do with the grains when he gets the hell, I guess make some cookies.

I don't know. He he's doing a sour Osada like the rest of us. Oh, no.

So to prevent this tease and his werewolf pack descended into hell to fight the witches off and get the grain back. And then Tease told the cops that he had since then given up lycanthropy. He's like, yeah, that was back in my glory days. I'm not a werewolf anymore. He gave it up. I don't give it up. I don't know why he did say that. Werewolves can only change into wolves three days out of the year, which are St.

Lucia's Day, the Pentecost and Midsummer Night. Mm hmm. He said that so werewolves can only change those three days and they have to use magical wolf pelts to be able to turn into a wolf. He also said that werewolves are agents of God and it was their task to protect livestock, which is ironic because they're the good guys.

Right. So now you're saying like, no, no, no. He's like Christian wolves.

I'm protecting the greens and I'm protecting the livestock, even though I'm a wolf who will eat livestock and and children also. And also God wants me to do this.

Yeah, that's the big point here.

They then responded and they're like, OK, we get that. You're like somehow like a good wolf, but also you're practicing magic.

So we're going to flog you. So, yeah, sorry. And so getting flogged and exiled. Oh, God.

It's like he was getting real cocky, just talking about it and expecting no one to do anything during the werewolf trials. He's lucky he only got flogged. And that's the thing. I'm like I'm shocked that it only went that far, especially when he was like giving up information.

I mean, if you're going to be a that braggadocios, like at a time when you should be not mentioning it so proudly. Yeah, I'm be thankful you're not dead right now. I'm amazed. So eighteen, 1849. This is the last one before the big one in 1849. There was one called the Galician Ghoulish Galician Werewolf, which was in modern day Poland. And this guy named Suay Tech Tech was he had a crush on this girl and told her, if you go to the churchyard and recited incantation, I will give you jewels, which is obviously how you flirt with people.

That's what that's how that's how I got Elsa.

And I was like, go to the churchyard and do a little rhyme and I'll bring you something that literally is something that you would do.

But also, I guess it's better than just being dirty, like a regular guy like me, like, no, no, no, you misunderstood.

I only like killing children.

I just wear I just wear dead animals and kill children. It's hot. Don't worry about it. Do you?

In today's age, if you tried to tell somebody that like you like. I'm sorry, we're just like trying to play it in my head all of the above. Yes, but can you imagine telling someone like I think like you might need to, like, talk to somebody like I think you are a little unstable and they're like, no, no, no. I'm just in a pack of werewolves. Like, I yeah, you don't understand what you like.

And I want to be very clear before, like the rest, this episode of like if like you're part of, like, you know, a group or like like if you're an indigenous person who identifies with spirit and things like that, that's very different than like claiming you are a werewolf and are happy to murder children and things like that. So, yes, I hope no one's being offended if, like, you actually have a belief system that allows you to.

Sure. Sure. Sure. You know, be amongst animals and all that. So. Yeah, but yeah. Can you imagine where you're like? I think maybe you need some help and they're like, no, no, no, I'm just a murderer. I don't understand. You misunderstand. I just like to eat children is there.

Why don't you go to the dollar store parking lot and I'll throw some jewels at you whenever I check. I don't really understand that parking in a churchyard, you'll you'll get there.

So. So the girl was like, OK, I'm going to bring people if I'm going to this church are smart, always bring a friend.

And he was pissed so he ran off.

He like got busted. I guess he was like sounds like he didn't have great intentions. It sounds.

You know what. Bingo Christine. I know I am, I am just like so astute today. Look at me go.

But very quickly, many other people started going missing in the churchyard. Oh no. And disappearances were blamed on Sweitzer, given the story that people had heard about him trying to lure someone else to the churchyard. Right. So villagers also began assuming he must be a werewolf. I don't know where that connection began, but everyone apparently is a werewolf at this point. So I'm not surprised that that was an option. Yeah, so he's probably also a werewolf.

And so they began killing any wolf that they saw thinking it might be Sweetback in disguise.

Well, that's kind of also sad in its own way. Yeah.

I mean, it's just I, I guess it's just hunting not their fault. Yeah. So at the same time, an innkeeper happened to lose a bunch of their ducks.

I guess they had ducks at this in I love I want to at that Airbnb please. Have you been to the Peabody in Memphis. I don't even know what that is. I'm not in Memphis.

It's just like old old old hotel in Memphis. And they have I think it's every day at noon they have a show with where ducks come through the hotel and go swimming in the fountain. Get out of here. Oh, it's so cute. I would love to be privy to this. It's so cute. So they I think it's in Memphis. It could be national. I am pretty sure it's Memphis. Always wanted to go to Memphis.

Now I have to go to Memphis. They make it this royal regal thing. They put out all these chairs in the lobby of the hotel. It's this very elaborate, beautiful hotel, as it should be. And so they put out all these chairs. So everyone gets like a front row seat. It looks like a little wedding because they have like chairs everywhere. And then they have literally like a man and like an old ass regal hat and coat and a cane top it walking.

And he's followed by a procession of ducks all in a row, literally ducks in a row one by one. I can't even and they all walk slowly to this very, like, delightful royal music and they follow him to the fountain. And then he like does an about face and turns to them and then each of them, one by one, hop up onto the fountain. And then it's like he like says something like, I guess they're like trained to know a certain command and they like all hop into the water together.

It's a very cute excuse me.

I have goose cam. No, I've duck duck. Oh God. Did you see this live? Yes.

Oh, I'm so jealous. It was wonderful. My mom and I, when we road trip out to California, we stopped in Memphis.

That's amazing. I mean, why did you even keep going? I would have been like, sorry, California, I'm here for good.

But am I those like, the one thing my mom really wanted to do across the entire nation, she was like, I want to see the Peabody ducks.

So, I mean, now, Alinda, I get it. I'm out with you. Can we go on a road trip because just for the ducks.

Wow. Wow. So anyway, so when I think the innkeeper lost his ducks, all I think is, is listen to this.

Like, you know what, Memphis is only a state away from me now. So if Tennessee is right right near me. So there you go.

Just drive on down, steal a duck. So anyway, he lost all of his ducks. He suspected a must be wolves. And I guess the rumors throughout the local area were that Sway Tech was the wolf everyone was looking for. So it kind of became this thing of like sway tech must have taken my ducks. Sure. So he goes to Sweetback's home and he smelled roasted meat being cooked. And, you know, and he saw Sweetback, I guess I guess Suezmax saw that someone was outside looking into his house.

And so he, like, hid something under his apron. Oh, no. And so the innkeeper who was there. Looking for his ducks and smelled roasted meat was like, what did he just hide under his coat because he no. And then a whole procession of ducks jumped out of the music.

The violence began. Imagine Sweetback is just the guy with the cane. And I think maybe that's where the story is going. I like it. It's not because the innkeeper ran up to him, grabbed him and lifted up his apron to be like my duck back. And it was the head of a girl who.

Yikes. Oh, what? So they were like, OK, so you're literally killing people and found them in human form. So this was like an actual murder. So he called like authorities.

Then each house got searched. They found a bowl of fresh blood. They found her organs removed and cleaned, and they found her limbs roasting over the fire, which was the meat that he smelt.

Oh. Oh, no sweat later confessed to having killed and eaten at least six people, but it was probably a much higher number he just confessed to.

Oh, and he apparently this all started because after a fire, apparently, again, he was really poor and very hungry. And he there was a fire nearby and a lot of people died in the fire and he was so hungry he'd start eating their cooked bodies. Oh, God, OK.

And he liked the taste so much, he just continually wanted to eat humans. Yeah.

The first part I understand, like, OK, survival. But the second part is like you. No, no, no. You just go too far to continue. Yeah. So the locals suspected him of lycanthropy, but either way he was like already caught for murder. And so he was supposed to your jail is like, oh, it's a werewolf.

They're like it doesn't matter. Like he's really a murderer. Surely not like lycanthropy is still the first charge. He's like, no, no, no, no, no. It doesn't matter at this point like God. But so he ended up actually dying by suicide while in jail because he knew he was getting the death sentence.

So this is just wild. And I want to reiterate, like, this is like a lot of remember, a lot of people so far in these stories have confessed to eating other people because they were poor and hungry. And side note, all the peasants were still the ones who had been completely converted yet and a lot were still just practicing paganism. So it's like it's like taking two different parts. Like there's the a lot of the peasants were still practicing paganism.

A lot of the peasants were hungry and poor. So they, like, resorted to cannibalism. So the paganism part and the cannibalism part really have nothing to do with each other except that they both are like part of the peasantry community. And so a lot of people started thinking, oh, if you're a cannibal, you must be a witch. So I think that's where the werewolf thing kind of came into play of like I see if you're eating people, we don't even care that you're a murderer.

You must just be a witch. And being a werewolf is what's causing this.

Well, and it also probably just seems so like in human like. Right. The gut instinct is to be like, this isn't a person like us.

This is a creature from the devil.

Exactly. Exactly. So there's one last one. And this is arguably the biggest werewolf story during the the the years of the werewolf trials.

So this is an fifteen, eighty nine. You might have heard of this. For all I know, this is an bredberg Germany. I don't think so. Not not because like you're German and it's in Germany. But I just I don't it sounds like one of your stories. Probabl so it sounds like one of your like German cautionary tales so.

No. Oh no. Let me get a sip of water real quick.

So I like I don't know if you can see my little I got this little love seat and it's, I call it my fainting couch.

Oh I look that expire. I want to do this so. Oh. Oh yeah. Yep. There it is very dramatic and I'm obsessed with it.

So I'm going to sketch this table so that I can be more preparing for this so you can fan appropriately.

Yeah. I would love to play appropriately for your story. I love that. Oh my gosh, that sounds delightful. OK, so this is an 1409 and Bredberg Germany and this is the story of Peter Steube Steube. This does sound familiar, actually. OK, so apparently it's his name is Peter Steube or Peter Steube, but people have also called him Peter Stump. Peter of of Bredberg and the werewolf of Bredberg. What year was it.

Fifteen eighty nine. Oh OK. Maybe I don't know at them.

So apparently there were strange deaths of cows that were found in the pastures recently. Children and women were disappearing. So it just kind of a lot of weird stuff was going on in the town. And one day a bunch of limbs of several missing people were all found together in one field.

Oh, no, no, not the disembodied feet there back, the disembodied feed, the disembodied arms, just my ears, all of it.

You're right. There's a lot of disembody things. So the community thought that it must be wolves just because they looked so mangled and people were getting dragged out of fields next to dead cattle. Sure.

And so they determined it must be wolves and then very quickly jumped to a must be where wolves are. At least it could be where wolves. Right. Since this was like right in the hot spot of the werewolf trials. If you're assuming a wolf, you might as well also assume a magical wolf, I guess. Why not at that point so local. Started looking, and after many days, they actually found a massive wolf like creature and they chased it down with their dogs, everything, and they cornered it or the dogs cornered it.

And by the time the actual hunters got up to where the dogs are cornered, this, Wolf, they were now cornering a man. So in theory, he transformed back into his human form before the hunters got there. Oh, my. And it was Peter Stube. And so after. So apparently, Peter was a farmer in town. He was a widow, a widower, a father. He was a peasant in town. And he was arrested immediately for the deaths of 13 children, two pregnant women and livestock.

Oh, my God. All under the the guise of him being a werewolf like that's true, that's true. They were just like literally a wolf. They're like, we just found you like our dogs cornered you while we're looking for wolves.

You look like a bull ahead in his apron, like the other. Right. Just like it happened to be taking a walk.

There was less evidence than a literal head than the exact evidence that other guy had. Right. But then get this, he's straight up confessed and like it could be under duress. It could have been, you know, through torture or something like that. But the way that this story goes, he like happily, openly said on his own, like, yeah, this was me.

Oh, no. And so he apparently the attacks were wildly brutal, especially on pregnant women. He had sorry, ripped out the fuses and ate them raw.

Oh, I hope that's not true. I hope this is not true.

He called them dainty morsels. OK, well, OK, just fucking ridiculous.

Oh, also, I don't I also don't think this one's real. First of all, I just really fucking hope it's not. I just hope. But apparently this story comes from like some random pamphlet from like the 1400's and it was never documented anywhere else. So it feels very cautionary tales like this.

Can you imagine, though, like if you were the writer of this pamphlet and then like, however many hundreds of years later, we're sitting here just like casually chatting about this story and the guy's like, holy shit.

Well, also not like no offense or pamphlet writers, but like, I would I would take offense to pamphlet writers, but I will offend.

I would think if my job were a pamphlet writer, I would think, like, this isn't going to be around in 500 years or would you write this will be long gone, but your pamphlet is the only one. To hell with it. And you happen to have the most fucked up story of all of them.

Like I mean, you knew what you were doing, right? You were hoping that someone would think to survive. Yeah. You were hoping this would like live out its legacy.

You were like that guy Peter, who stole my wife, my girlfriend. Right. I need to put him for the rest of eternity in humankind. I need everyone to think that this guy, like they're going to know I'm already manifest. So. So, yeah, if that pamphlet was telling an accurate story, even though there was no sources or anything like a bibliography.

Right. No annotated sites or citations. So yeah. So apparently he literally ate raw fetuses. He strangled children. He bludgeoned bludgeoned women and ripped their throats out with his bare hands. He disemboweled some of them and partially ate them, apparently.

Also, just like I no, I love the today pamphlets are like Ride the world's tallest roller coaster because it was like, you know, really only feces.

I would say there's still a commonality there because it's still like tourism. It's like, oh, come true, come to the town where Peter did this really terrible fucking bag. It's very German to be like, do you want to know the most horrible thing that ever happened? You know what's so funny is that I actually speaking of roller coasters, I just found roller coaster chicks talk, which I didn't know was a thing. I didn't either. Did you know that?

Like, I don't know why I'm shocked. Like, this makes so much sense. I'm just mad. I didn't know about it earlier so I could, like, become a part of it. There's like apparently like a roller coaster community, like just like how there's enthusiasts for anything. There's like literally groups and real life. Not a tick tock. There's like there's like an organization like huge enthusiast groups specifically about roller coasters who know, like the physics of each one, like the fun facts of each one.

And like they all get together at like meet ups to go different theme parks and like ride their favorite roller coaster stuff they've studied together.

Isn't it so precious? I had no idea. Well, I've a fun fact about roller coasters, which is that when I first started the podcast, we were brainstorming, hey, we have a podcast or we want to podcast. What should we talk about? One of the things I through I was like, hey, what about like theme parks? And I was like, theme parks. Do you remember that?

No. One of this because we were just throwing around ideas via text. It's probably somewhere. And you're like, what about like theme parks? Like they're haunted, like haunted theme parks. Oh, I have. I kind of vaguely I wanted to do a band and theme park up Emancipation Park abandoned situations. Yeah. And then I was like, I mean, I think that's cool, but it feels very narrow. Like it feels like you can only get like you can only get like ten episodes on.

And to be clear, we didn't think we'd have to hundreds of day, but we like well we should probably find of more vast source of material. But I mean, yeah, look, full circle locations is what we bring to a full rhombus. So yeah. So he did terrible things to a pamphlet, right. Yeah, a pamphlet man. He did horrible things to livestock and people. Apparently one cat actually got away at one point, but it did say that Peter tried to grab.

And like, snap her neck, but what saved her was she had this stiff, high collar and I kept his fingers from being able to, like, do some sort of snapping motion. And I could get like it was because of her, like, really starched collar.

So do you think that was just like another German like Catholic way of being like, see, this is what little girl modesty saves? Yeah. If you don't want to be eaten by an old man.

Yeah, exactly. And so he can't control himself. But you can control your outfit, you can definitely throw a couple starch collars on. So because he couldn't actually really grab her, well it gave her time to scream so the cattle heard her.

And because the cattle were worried about their own calves, they charged up Peter and he said, oh, well, good, good cows.

Good cows. I was going to try to make a pun. Now, OK, so Peter, also this is a weird thing, and this according to the pamphlet, and like Google, I'm inclined to believe that this was consensual, but he allegedly also was sleeping with his sister and his daughter.

Call if the daughter was a minor, probably not consensual, but no, I think the daughter was like an adult because both of both the sister and the daughter were also assisting in these crimes, apparently. OK, not great. I mean, even if she's an adult, like, I still like I'm not really like a big fan of it. No, it's not it is not good. But there's some troubling connotations there. So apparently he was sleeping with his sister and his daughter.

Apparently, he had a child with his daughter and then he murdered the baby by bringing it to the forest and eating its brains. What the fuck also like this needs to be a longer pamphlet, because I want more information, like a pamphlet. What the hell kind of pamphlet is?

It was one of those pamphlets are full. Sounds like a whole theme park map.

All right. It has to be.

So at this trial, Peter confessed to all of his crimes and he said that he had been practicing dark magic since he was 12. He started when the devil gave him a magical belt that would help him turn into a wolf. Great. And apparently when he would turn into the wolf, this is his own description of himself.

He had the likeness of a greedy, devouring wolf, strong and mighty, with eyes great and large, a mouth great and wide with the most sharp and cruel teeth and a huge body with mighty paws. And he said that this was why the hunters thought that he originally was a wolf when they were chasing him. He took the belt off before they could get to him and he became a human again.

But then like, where was the belt? Was he just holding it the whole time? The rest of them. Good point belt. So he apparently made a deal with the devil. This is why he became like a killer, because he originally made a deal with the devil specifically to, quote, work his malice on men, women and children whereby he might live without threat or danger of life. So he made a deal with the devil so that he could be a murderer and get away with it.

But then he didn't get away with it. So that is the devil real also. I mean, maybe the devil is just like a trick to you. Truly.

Why would the devil make an honest agreement? Yeah, exactly.

Also, I'm sorry, I just can't stop thinking about this, but like, was a wolf wearing a belt.

That's what I'm thinking, too. I'm like, like, did he take it off? But how did you take it? Like, do you take your clothes off like you're. Yeah. In that case, if you can't see the belt then you should know which wolves are wolves and which are werewolves.

Also I'd be like prove it. Put on your belt. I want to see this. Right. OK, wait a minute. How come there were literally three centuries of werewolf trials where many people claimed that they were putting on magical belts and we never seen one of these belts?

Yeah, OK, give me a time machine and I are going to go back like a lot of wear the now we're the jury now we have a lot of questions. Hello, it's us.

It's so if you own a belt, I want I actually just want to go into everyone's closet like I'm tan France and I wanna be like I wanna watch you put every single one of these on because one of my magic satanic belt, I need it now.

Also then GVN waxen, he's like, I wanna see all your ointments.

Well, he's also like, wait a minute, is this Queer Eye hanging like that werewolf hair is really mad at girl.

We got to brush it out, OK, we're not cut out for that kind of a show, but we are the jury for fifteen century we would just be the Anthony and then just eat avocados in the kitchen and leave everyone else alone. That's all I've ever wanted.

So yeah. So he apparently made a deal with the devil so that he could kill people. He also confessed to having sex with a succubus. Oh, good. But the devil sent him as like a thank you or something like this. Like the least. Like a confession.

Good for all your trouble. Here's your succubus.

That's like the least. Like the least. I mean. Like, OK, you're confessing that you also had sex with your daughter and your wife or I'm sorry, your sister and you killed babies, but like you're confessing to having sex with like you're like here's arguably the worst of it all.

It's like, I beg to differ. Priorities are off.

So then on Halloween, apparently Peter's daughter and his sister, again, both who were convicted of assisting him in his crimes, they were both burned at the stake. Oh, no. And then Peter, specifically because he did the real heinous shit, he was like old school, medieval, tortured, where he was like lashed on a wheel.

His, my God flesh was torn off of him with, like, pliers, like pinchers. I think that's called flaying.

OK, well, that happened to him. Oh, God. His limbs were broken and then they chopped off his head. And then God and then his body was burned at the stake and then they put another, like, I guess previously dead Wolf's body, they put Peter's head on the body and then, like, hoisted it up in the center of the town so that everyone could go see this like dead wolf with Peter's head on it, as it's now sounding more like a pamphlet, like I'm getting the picture now as a warning to other werewolves like this will happen.

If also gave a bad name to werewolves, like, can't there just be one werewolf is like, I want to go hang out in the forest, maybe get a belly rub. That's fucking. And that's it.

Well, that one guy was like I was just trying to get the week away from. Yeah.

That one guy's like, look, I'm saving your crops. You're welcome. This you're welcome. And and he probably also got executed anyway. Sorry I was so long, but those are some of the many stories in cases from the werewolf trials.

That's nuts, dude. No, it was just long because I kept interrupting. I apologize, but no, only Conolly. That was crazy. I wow. I don't even know what to say. That pamphlet, though, that was the longest pamphlet I've ever heard of that pamphlet was like a 20 minute long story on a party.

It sounds like our episode.

Yeah. OK. All right.

Well, I have a story for you today that several people had requested in the past, and I didn't know what it was. And now I feel pretty ignorant. But this is a story of Neil Stone child and the Starlight Tours murders.

Oh, that sounds familiar, but I'm proud. I've probably never heard of it. Yeah, I knew that phrase just because people kept requesting it, but I never thought like that to really.

Oh, sorry. I think I've just heard Starchild before and so I'm like confusing it in my head.

OK, it's, it's Starlight Tours but. Oh OK. I really don't know what's going on. Starchild I think. OK, no I'm not going to say it because I feel like I'm think that was a book. I'm a very ignorant person. Let's just meet you. OK.

OK, so I'm going to try to make a slightly less ignore today.

This week we are going to Saskatoon, Saskatchewan in Canada.

Oh. So let's start there. Let's please. Wow.

Some notable people from Saskatoon include Joni Mitchell, former NFL player Gordie Howe, not somebody I know, but OK.

And Yann Martel, who wrote Life of Pi. Oh, OK.

Fact, I do know the Life of Pi. That one I know. And Joni Mitchell. I know.

I feel like everyone's maybe I maybe my mom was like with the Times and it's actually the younger generation that I'm aware of. But my mom and every mom that I was aware of was fucking obsessed with the book all at the same time.

Yeah, it was a very like Oprah's pick book I must have been or something where it was like it's like Oprah's book club or what my mom was like. It's a boy and a tiger on a boat for the entire book. And I went, Oh, that sounds awful.

Okay, to be fair, your mom also wanted to see the ducks, only the ducks. So it makes a lot of sense.

My my mom really is like a real sucker for any like like main character where it's only an animal like I mean, seem like she's so far off anyway.

I think she has a good taste. OK, so Life of Pi. Right. Another fun fact about Saskatoon, according to the blog, hike bike trouble is that there are more Tim Hortons per capita than in any other city in Canada.

So that's the the Big Tim Hortons town.

I guess I dragged Evea into a Tim Hortons when we went to Vancouver. Did you? Purely because I was in Canada. Because you were there. Right. And because evil was next to me and I was like, you really like lost all opportunities for an opinion today. I like I'm sorry. I'm dragging you here. I'm dragging you here. You should have stayed at the hotel if you didn't want this. She knew what she was getting into.

She was the ultra man, though, like she I think obviously you and her both know how much I love Canada. Yeah. A totally enabled every ounce of anything I wanted to do. And I was like, we have to go, oh my God.

I was getting all these fucking pictures of the group type of like with different, like, touristy items. And I was like, thanks guys. It's I'm still grossed out of how much money I spend in Canada on souvenirs like I was all me. I wasn't buying them for anyone. I no, no, they weren't gifts by the way. Anyway, I'm sorry. No, no, you're good. I think we need to get that out there.

You know, we were donating any time we can. I want to anyway, shout out to you for, like, absolutely being the homie that day. Yeah. A shout out to Eva period.

End of story for everything. So there's a lot of Tim Hortons anyway. Saskatchewan is also home to a large portion of the First Nations community. So for just for reference, in 2016, the population of Saskatchewan was one million seventy thousand five hundred and sixty. And of those, one hundred and fourteen thousand five hundred and seventy were of First Nations identities. And I don't expect any of you, including me or me, to do the math in our heads.

So I will tell you, that is ten point seven percent of the population.

Wow. OK, first identified as First Nations.

So on November 24th, nineteen ninety Neil St. Child A Salto First Nations seventeen year old. Was hanging out with his friend Jason Roy, playing cards and drinking heavily, they were at their friend Julie Biddings House Party on the west side of Saskatoon. So Neil and Jason had a 40 a vodka and they had drunk most of it between the two of them and around 11, 30 p.m. they parted ways. And the following morning, Neil was reported missing. A whole five days later, November 29th, 1990, a group of workers found Neil's body in the undeveloped industrial block on the outskirts of Saskatoon.

So he was way out in like the industrial outskirts and they found his body. So Sergeant Keith Jarvis, who becomes like a main character in the story, he was part of the mortality unit assigned to investigate. And it turns out Neil's body had frozen in the it was negative 28 degrees Celsius, which, again, don't expect anyone to have this calculator in your head. Negative, eighteen point four degrees Fahrenheit. So still fucking cold.

Got fucking cold. He was lying face down, wearing only jeans, a light letterman jacket from his brother and just one shoe. So and he had frozen to death. Despite there being visible injuries to his body, Sergeant Jarvis concluded that this was just another case of a kid going out, getting drunk and going for a walk where he froze to death.

OK, so Neal's funeral was held on December 3rd, 1990, at Westwood Funeral Chapel, where his friends saw the body and observed two parallel cuts on the bridge of Neil's nose.

OK, St. Charles family immediately suspected foul play, and so they began to question why Sergeant Jarvis had quickly closed the case within like four days of finding the body because they were like, you listed the death as hypothermia, a cause of death as hypothermia, but like their cuts on his face just doesn't add up.

Like, where were they coming from? Yeah.

So Sergeant Jarvis said, quote, It is felt that unless something concrete by way of evidence to the contrary is obtained, the deceased died from exposure and froze to death. There is nothing to indicate why he was in the area other than the possibility he was going to turn himself in to the correctional centre or was attempting to follow the tracks back to Sutherland Group home, or simply wandered around drunk until he passed out from the cold and alcohol and froze.

So to clarify, apparently Neil was, quote, at large from an open, custardy youth group home called the Packard Home for Alcohol Abuse. He was staying there and he had been granted a temporary absence that month, but he didn't return on time to the group home.

So he was, quote, at large in a technical sense.

So according to Miss Patricia Picard, who ran the home, Neil had called her the day he went missing at seven thirty. And she was like, you need to come back. Like she was trying to urge him to come back to the to the home. And he told her he told Miss Picard that he had promised his mother he would turn himself in at the end of the weekend. So he, I guess, wanted to stay at the house party.

Right.

I'll be there. I'll be there Sunday. Don't worry. I, like, pretty hung over. I do like that.

He literally called her, though, like she didn't like he let her know I'll be back, but not yet. Was like, I appreciate that you're trying to set a standard for me, but I'm not going to listen to you. I got this forty for my older brother and I'm not leaving until it's done. And so she explained this to police.

And when Sergeant Jarvis heard this, he decided, OK, well, that's what he was doing.

He was out in this random industrial area on the edge of town on his way to the Picart home, even though that was not where. Even though A, that was not where the home was, and B, he had just told this woman he wasn't coming back until the end of the week. Right. So then the woman was like, no, no, no, no, no. That's she categorically denied this, said like he would not then, not now, not ever have just wandered into the, you know, dark to come back to the to the group home, especially in the wrong direction.

Right.

So then Neil's brother Chris went to the police after the investigation had already concluded and he wanted to request Neil's belongings.

So his little brother's belongings, the Saskatoon police told him they couldn't find them.

They just were like John, either they didn't bring them back from the crime scene or they just lost them in their trash. Them they're not going to look OK.

They're just not even not even a lost and found.

And like, remember that he had given his brother the Letterman's jacket, like it was literally a gift from him to his brother or I don't know if his alone or gift or whatever, but he didn't get his jacket back. He didn't get any. His family didn't get any of his possessions back.

So there are like a lot of flaws, not shockingly, in Jarvis's report, for example, it does not address why Neil was missing a shoe, which is part of the issue.

It doesn't address how he could have walked nine kilometers to an industrial area in a snowstorm without one of his shoes.

Well, you're right. Exactly what did they ever find as others? Well, I guess we don't know. I don't know where his belongings are. But like that this happened to be near a hill area. Like, could he have fallen and lost the shoe potentially?

I think we don't really ever find out exactly why the shoe like specifically why the shoe or where it went missing.

Well, I mean, it's probably likely that it got just. Yeah. Lost somewhere or fell off or who knows.

But yeah, I think even if the police did have it, they were not going to give it back.

And it also didn't address how he had gotten those cuts on his nose. So which, by the way, remember, his family and friends noticed at the funeral. It wasn't like they were told this information. It was like, what is that? Right.

They saw it like the day he was going into the ground or whatever. Exactly. And like, it hadn't even been addressed in the report.

So the investigation was closed prior to receiving the coroner's report, prior to the toxicology report and prior to completing interviews with witnesses. So like it just was closed right away. They didn't even wait for all the information. They didn't even wait for the coroner's report to come back.

None of it just wildly irresponsible. Exactly. I work here all around.

Yeah, exactly. So something obviously was not right, but the case was deemed an accident and it was just case closed. Move on. So on March 4th, 1991, star Phoenix journalist Terry Craig reported that Neil St. Charles mother, Stella Bignall, and his sister disagreed with Jarvis's report and suspected foul play. But again, nothing was done.

And now we basically fast forward to a decade later.

So now it's around two thousand. It's been ten years. And this cold case is basically like a distant memory in the town at this point.

Then three cases were picked up by reporters on January 29, 2000, the body of Rodney Narcis, a 25 year old First Nations man, was discovered in a field near the Queen Elizabeth power station, which is like way out where nobody was known to walk around. It was just like way out of town.

Less than a week later, on February 3rd, 20, 30 year old First Nations man Laurice Wegener's frozen body was discovered in the same spot. So like by the power plant where nobody was known to walk. So very odd.

And then one other man. Was found who had survived this night, a similar night to tell his tale, so. Thirty four year old. I know.

So it was just another person and the First Nations. Yes. So they're all First Nations. Yes. OK, so it's feeling a little racist so far.

Do you get a pattern? OK. I mean, it felt racist just in the original story and now I know it's becoming a pattern. Right, exactly.

It's just quickly reporters got these three cases and then went, hold on. Like something way bigger is happening here and smells off. Yeah, yes. Yes. So.

Thirty three year old First Nations man Darrell Knight reported that he had been dumped in a field near the Queen Elizabeth power station in the middle of a dangerously cold night by police officers.

OK, well, I'm OK then. That's all we needed to hear. So, yeah. So let me take a whack at this. So this probably what happened to all of them and why the cops literally just said like, oh, he froze to death and refused to look at any information, refuse to fill out autopsy reports, refused to do anything because they were the ones responsible.

Ding, ding, ding. Excellent. Yes. Wow.

Surprise, surprise. And I remember, like, 10 percent of this population is first nation.

So it's like it's wow.

It's just shocking. Anyway, so Darrell Knight, he's 33. He says he was dumped in a field near the power station, which is where the other two bodies had been found in the middle of the night by police officers. Thank God he was able to hail a taxi and was able to get out of the weather before he succumbed to the elements.

So to see, I'm sure you're going to get into this, but does he remember what happened beforehand and how he got dumped?

There are like, yeah, so OK. Yeah. So it ends up being a pattern of like why this was happening to specific people.

And let me also take a shot in the dark that every one of these cops was white.

Yeah, OK. Well maybe he didn't need to have it. I didn't need to. I just wanted the confirmation here.

Oh no. You nailed it. You nailed it. Yeah. It's quickly becoming a very obvious pattern. I see.

So as recalled by Dan Zakuski, a reporter who was covering these stories for the star Phoenix at the time, he was interviewed on an episode of Criminal, which is a really great podcast that just does amazing research and interviews, and it's hosted by Phoebe Judge. So Dan Zakuski is interviewed and he says to Phoebe, quote, That particular month it was the post Christmas newsroom doldrums.

I was assigned to look at one of these freezing deaths. There was a body found out by the city landfill, which is in the southwest section of the city. It was assigned to put together a best practices story of don't get drunk and try to walk home and develop a little bit of a feature on the individual who is frozen. So I began to do my research, find out the individual's name turned out to be Lawrence Wagner, a social work student here in town.

Then my city editor had gotten an improbable tip. City police had been dropping people outside of town, First Nations people.

So he began to investigate this further because he's going I was just supposed to write a feature on this person who died and write kind of a little story to be like, hey, be careful when you're out drinking, you can die. And he's like, OK, now we're getting all these really weird reports that this is happening. Sure. Multiple people and it's not an accident. Right. So he starts investigating and he interviews a First Nations man who responds with, oh, well, that's just a Starlight tour.

So it's I know.

So according to Kreisky, he had heard versions of this in the past.

But so this is what Sikorski explained of Starlight to police, would pick up a person who was intoxicated. And they don't want to take them into the station because it involves a lot of paperwork. So they think instead of taking you in and charging, you will take you somewhere and you can walk it off.

So what they would do is they would go about this Starlite tour, the police would, by targeting a First Nations or Aboriginal man who was out drinking, and I coaxed them into the police car in the in the with the idea that, like, police were going to drop you off at a drunk tank to sober up or take you obviously indoors.

However, what they would do is they would drive you to the outskirts of Saskatoon, kick you out of the car and basically be like, find your own way home.

And like, again, it's like negative 18 Fahrenheit, 20 Celsius, negative 20 Celsius. Like it's free. I mean, within minutes, especially if you're really intoxicated, like frostbite can kick in within minutes.

Is there a crime? Is there a name? How do I phrase this? Is there such a thing as intentional negligence? Because it sounds like oh yeah, it sounds like they're oxymorons, but it also sounds like that's exactly what's happening. Like, yeah, we're taking you further away to make sure that, like, you are more likely to be in trouble.

Yeah, because especially I mean, especially if you are in a position of, like, helping somebody.

You know what I mean? I don't want to say any words about as far as like manslaughter, that kind of thing, because I don't intentional I don't know the specific legal terms, but yeah, it's definitely a crime to be like, well, it sounds like it sounds like negligence of like, oh, we're like going to let you stay out here in the freezing cold when, like, we need we could help you.

But it sounds even more intentional. It's like let's bring you even further away than you already were from home. So it's harder for you to, you know, get exactly at that point.

It's intentional whether you say like, no, we didn't mean to, like, do it out there.

Yeah. Outskirts of town. Yeah. Well, and then what? The guy who survived, Darryl Knight, he basically said that he was like, I'm going to freeze to death.

And they were like, that's not our problem.

So in fact, we're making it your problem, whether that was to begin with exactly like we created it.

So, I mean, it's really horrific. Definitely crime. So critical. Race scholar Cherine Razack commented that there is a popular term for this practice is testimony to the fact that it happened more than once. The practice of dropping off is a lethal one when the temperature is negative. Twenty eight Celsius and if the long walk back to town is undertaken without proper clothing and shoes.

So it it's it's horrific.

I mean, it's a lethal thing, right? If you're not if this guy's not doesn't have a shoe on, doesn't have a barely a coat and you're dumping him on the side of town, like that's definitely I, I wouldn't say you're killing him, but you're certainly making it easier.

Yeah.

Yeah. You're not, you know, you're not safe, you're not helping and you're not. Yeah. You're preventing his death. You're not doing a good thing. No, no, no. Just leave it at.

But also know what I'm sorry I realized I know the phrase Starlight Tours from where because I was thinking Starchild start by. That's literally one of the names of like the big tour company.

That's exactly right. That's on the Hollywood Starlight Tours is the is on the buses.

You're right where they drive it, all the celebrities houses and stuff, which by the way is I'm not convinced those are actually the celebrities houses. I think they just drive you through the neighborhoods and they're like, oh, that's a celebrity.

That's just like, yeah, it's saying like, oh, don't worry. But that's how I know we drive Proline. It's Starline. OK, that's what I went I just googled it. Sounds like there's no way they would fucking name it.

That's much less offensive. A literal star later. Yeah. They just sound similar. But I was like I feel like I know that. And yeah we drive by those buses all the time.

Yes. Starline Tours Hollywood celebrity home stores. Yeah. And I think that's why especially like living in L.A. for so long, when people kept saying, Oh, the Starlight Tours murders, I was like Starline tours, like a tour bus that for a second I was like, there's there's no way that that's the same name.

But OK, they're just similar.

It's really similar. And the fact I think it says tour is misleading to us anyway. So I felt pretty dumb when I learned this because I went, oh, shit. Like, you know, people have been suggesting this, that I had no clue what it was.

So I you know, so of course, most white locals claim to not know about this practice. Obviously, we don't know how true that is, because Starlight Tours were very well known among the First Nations community who again made up more than 10 percent of the population. So, I mean, obviously, they were the targets of it and it was obviously known to police because they were facilitating it. So how likely it is that the locals who are white knew or didn't know is unclear.

However, they denied knowing about it. Most of them did anyway. Sure. So not surprising. So once the story was broken, the phone once the story broke, basically the phone lines lit up from people in the First Nations community calling not just in Saskatoon, but all throughout Saskatchewan.

Oh, wow. Yeah. They were saying, quote, This happens all the time, but no one ever believed us. We were being taken out by representatives of the state who was going to believe us. White reporters weren't going to believe us. Oh, my gosh. So it's just like this fucking horrible practice that's been happening.

And they're like, yeah, hello. Like, I yeah.

And I'm like, wow, talk about privilege. I've literally never. Yeah. And I'm sure this is something that they all know about or have at least heard. Through the grapevine, hopefully this isn't still fucking happening. Well, I mean, this is in two thousand it's not that long ago, so great. Well, now I feel like an asshole. OK, well, it's it's anyway, it's very sobering. It's yeah. It's it's just very sobering.

So the reaction to the Darryl Knight case was immediate. So saskatoons streets filled with protesters, including a march of four hundred people alongside Lawrence Wegener's body I'm sorry, Lawrence Wegener's family, whose body had been found by the powerplant and they marched to police headquarters, Amnesty International and a host of other groups demanded action.

And then chief Lawrence Joseph, who was a vocal farmer, Federation of Saskatchewan Indian Nations chief and the then vice chief in charge of the Justice portfolio, met with First Nations chiefs in February. On February 19, the two thousand who are angry and hurt, they met that chiefs from across the province and Chief Joseph tried in vain to set up meetings with Saskatoons police chief and provincial and federal officials. And in every speech, news conference and public appearance, Chief Joseph demanded answers and said there was pain.

But something was borne out of that pain. He declared police cannot and should not be trusted by First Nations people and marginalised people. And when he finally met with a senior Justice Department official, he says the man alternately insisted on calling him Lawrence or Asshole rather than Chief Joseph, which was his title.

OK, like I mean, Chief Justice Joseph was like the.

The First Nations like leader of the group, so basically the police are saying like, oh, you're just going to call you Lawrence instead of like Chief Joseph, which is like I say, wow, completely different than what was going on in my head.

Sorry. Yeah.

So Chief Joseph was saying, like, you can't trust police. Like I'm meeting with chiefs from across the province where demanding answers.

He couldn't get a meeting with Saskatoon police. He finally met with a senior Justice Department official. And the guy just continued to call him Lawrence, even though he's like, my name is Chief Joseph and that's my title and you're fucking disrespecting me.

And anything I was laughing at, I thought in my head they were reversed where the chief was calling the police asking, oh, no, no, no. Which is what's happening in my head here. OK, yes. Sorry. No, no, no, Joseph. That sounded like I was laughing at the completely wrong thing. I knew you were. I just wanted to clarify. So people were. Thank you. Thank you. No, no, no.

I thought it was the chiefs being like, let's just call the police assholes. And I was like, well, sir, no, no, no.

I mean, I think that at least in our story, but that sorry if it sounded offensive, let's all remember that that was just my brain deciding to invert complete. Yeah.

I mean, it's confusing if there's a lot that I just kind of dumped on you, but no, no, no. Just my brain being my brain.

So just to clarify for everybody, Chief Lawrence Joseph was a vocal former Federation of Saskatchewan Indian Nations chief and the then vice chief in charge of the justice portfolio. So he's the one who met with other First Nations chiefs who across the board, I think because I heard chief and I know that that's like sometimes a name, like a police chief and a police, a police chief.

So my badge only knew what was going on. I was like, just, hey, I'm not laughing because I'm. Oh, no, no. Yeah. So just to be clear, yeah, that happened. So he obviously was not taken seriously. Right. And then Chief Joseph's home was also pelted with eggs and paintball pellets on four occasions. And on two other occasions, explosives were set off in his mailbox. Oh, really?

He received multiple death threats. So it's just horrific.

I feel like I've never actually heard of that happening in real life. So it just sounds kind of like like out of a movie. What it's like putting male explosives.

Never. I think it's a real I'm sure it's a real thing. I've just I've it's shocking. I thought it was actually something someone would choose to do.

Yeah, I think that happened back in the 2000s, like in Washington, DC. I don't remember. There was like a whole army bomb thing. Oh, I remember the anthrax thing in Melbourne. Well, that also was something. Yeah. She's speaking of mail. Death by mail, I guess. Yeah. Oh, OK.

So with a story obviously exploding, reporters began wondering how far back this practice went. And then they remember the story of a teenager who was found on November 29th. Nineteen ninety. So back full circle to Neil Stone, child who had died a decade previously and his case had just been kind of dismissed. Excuse me. So on February 22nd, 2000, the star Phoenix put Neil Stone child on the front cover of their newspaper and wrote an article connecting Darryl Knight's The Survivors allegations with Neil Stone child's death a decade earlier.

So this survivor tale of Darryl Knight made it more clear that this had been happening.

Like he was like, no, I will tell you firsthand what happened. It wasn't you know, they had a survivor's account, basically.

Right. So more than a decade after Neil St. Charles death and because of the reported death of two other men and the Survivor story, Neil's case was reopened finally. So meanwhile, a fully white jury found constables Dan Hatch and Ken Munson guilty of the unlawful confinement of Darryl Knight and sentenced them to eight months in jail. And from what I heard, it was just eight months and very low profile jail. You know nothing. Nothing too severe of a punishment, I'd say, and it was decided in February 2003 that in September there would be an official inquiry into the death of Neil Stone, child headed by Justice David Wright.

So what seems like an incredibly like.

Step an incredible step forward and finally, getting justice for Neil was pushed backwards when it was revealed that in 1998, Neil Stone child's file, the file that contained information about on his death, had been destroyed by police during a routine purge.

Oh, sure. Right.

But we have a hero of the story we do who is a werewolf. His name is Ernie.

Oh, OK. So Ernie was one of the constables on the Saskatoon Police Force in 1990. He's a First Nations man.

So there were three First Nations police officers at the time, including himself, out of about three hundred and fifty officers.

So, again, this is just not great representation, you know?

Right. Three people like about 50, barely a fraction.

Of course we are exactly when like 10 percent of the population is is first nation. Right. So he thinks from what he can remember, that there were about 10 to 15 women on the force, one Asian, Canadian and one African, Canadian. And everyone else was white except for obviously, than him and two other of the First Nations officers. So speaking of Phoebe Judge on the criminal podcast, he said that as a First Nations officer, the death of Neil Stone child and how the case was closed so quickly had like been on his mind, so much so that he had decided he wanted to make a copy of Neil St.

Child's case so that he could take it home and read into it.

So he did this kind of sneakily like he didn't want to go like, look, I'm making photocopies of this case. It wasn't illegal, but it was definitely sneaky. He had some people make a copy for him of the case.

And he even went at the time to Neil's mother, Stella, which, by the way, investigators had not gone to Neil's mother to talk to her about this like. So he was the only one to interview her as part of the case, so he went to talk to her, he listened to her and her concerns about why she thought it was foul play. And he left saying if this were a white kid or the son of the mayor, I'm sure this case wouldn't be closed.

Right. He then went to speak to Sergeant Keith Jarvis to be basically like, hey, there's some misgivings here that I'm having about this case. Like it was closed really quickly. Neil's mother thinks there might have been foul play. I think we should look into this. And basically, at least in the interview, in a podcast episode, he was like, nothing good like that. Mean nothing good came of that meeting. Basically, he was shunned.

He was like, you have no idea what you're talking about. Stop meddling.

And he said there was no thanks for bringing this information and nothing. And then Jarvis threatened Ernie, saying things could happen to him if he continued with this.

And he he basically said, like, that was so vague, it could have meant anything from like he would have been sidelined to a desk position or something worse. There was no way to know what a threat, what the threat meant, except that he was basically being, like, silenced.

So anyway, we're back to 2003 and we find out as this case is being reopened, that police have have mysteriously purged the files and they're missing and everyone's like frustrated. And it's like, well, now what do we do?

And Ernie is just happening to clean out boxes in his house and he opens one that he hasn't opened in years. And on the top is literally Neil Stone child's report. And he's like, oh, my God, I'd forgotten. I made a copy of this like 13 or 12 years earlier. So he happened to find this report back while this case was going on.

That's amazing. OK, yeah. So thank God, because he had said, like, I didn't even really remember, it didn't even occur to me that I had made my own copy at the time. So he found this report, thank God, handed it in to be used for the investigation and for the inquiry itself.

There were 43 days of testimony.

Sixty three people testified, including Ernie. And because the police force hadn't had obviously like car cameras or body cams or GPS at the time, it was really hard to prove any objective facts. It was again in the early 90s also.

So the whole team had to interview and reinterview all the witnesses. It was now 13 years later. So they had to reinterview everybody to make sure this was like still fresh information. And obviously they hadn't really done much.

In the initial investigation, so now they have to do a lot more legwork, so one of the most surprising things, or just at least like shocking things to come out of this case was that was the statement by Jason Roy, who was the the kid that Neil was hanging out with who drinking the for the bottle that night.

So he testified 13 years later and he said he had his name is Jason Roy. He said he had phoned the Saskatoon police at six p.m. on November 30th, 1990, and had spoken to Sergeant Jarvis in the mortality section and said he was originally reluctant to give a statement to the police because he was still subject to breach of probation and was concerned that he'd be arrested. And so he basically arranged with Sergeant Jarvis to provide a statement on condition that he not be arrested.

So this is what Roy's statement said.

He described how after leaving the House party around 11 30, Neil St. Child convinced Roy to join him and going to see his friend Lucille, who was babysitting a few blocks away. They trudged drunkenly to the Snobbery Downs apartment complex, where they caused a disturbance by not knowing which sweet Lucille was at. So they buzzed a lot of the different buzzers to try and find her. So somebody had called the police to be like somebody walking around, buzzing all the apartments and disturbing the peace basically in the middle of the night.

So that's how the police ended up there, I say. So the boys, I guess, argued and Jason Roy left Neil and headed back. And he he said he thinks he stopped to warm up at a 7-Eleven.

From what he remembers as he walked south on Confederation Drive, he says a police car emerged from an alley in front of him and stopped. Roy says stone-Cold was in the back seat.

His hands were cuffed, sorry. His hands were cuffed behind his back.

There was blood on his face and he was calling Roy by the name of Jay, presumably to like even even under this horrible situation to keep Roy's identity safe. He was called by another name to be like Jay. So he called him Jay instead of Jason. Roy said, Jay, help me, help me.

These guys are going to kill me. So and he's in the back of the police car. Oh, my gosh.

OK, so the driver this is just really. Oh, the driver asked him if he knew the youth in the back, Roy says, and he says he denied knowing him, denied knowing, probably because identity safer.

Yeah, because he said he feared he'd be arrested, too. Exactly.

So when asked his name, he gave the name and birthday of his cousin Tracy Horse, who he knew had no criminal record, so that when they ran the name, he wasn't listed, you know, as relation to the poor.

Tracy is like, wait a second. I live in like I live not even here. I don't even live here. I'm in bed watching this. So they check the name allowed him to go.

And as the police drove away, Neil seemed afraid and yelled, They're going to kill me. And that was the last time that he had that Roy had seen his friend.

And then the friends just like went home. I just walked home or. Yeah, he he was, like, really drunk. He said he just saw he saw this happen then. Wow.

And then the next day Neil was missing a the guilt though it must be really scary to be like wait like you're seeing him, your last memories, your friends of your friend is him saying they're going to kill me and then denying that you know him.

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. It must be a scary, scary thought. And it was like a survival thing. Yeah, sure. He was like, I don't want to put myself in that position.

So obviously this was like pivotal testimony. It revealed so much about like what actually happened that night. And when rereading his handwritten statement that had been recovered by Ernie, Roy said in two thousand three that it was incomplete because it didn't include reference to stone child in the back of the police car. He said he had written in an untruthful statement because he feared he couldn't tell the truth in a place where he did not feel safe in the police station. He says in his 2003 statement, I lied for my life because I thought whoever had done this would be coming for me.

Sure. So he was scared to even admit, like, oh, I saw the police do this because, again, no one's believing them. Right.

And he could be targeted next. So after a more thorough enquiry. The police investigation was brought back by Pirnie and here's a quote, It was considered superficial and totally inadequate and found that Sergeant Jarvis closed the investigation prematurely.

And Ernie said Jarvis was not prepared to pursue the investigation because he was either aware of police involvement or suspected police involvement. The deficiencies in the investigation go beyond incompetence or neglect. They were inexcusable. So this is Ernie testifying against the police force that he was on. Right. So the key findings included that the two officers, Larry Hartwig and Bradley Senger, were dispatched to a disturbance involving the Helstone child at eleven fifty one p.m. on November 25th, 1990, they took him into custody.

He died of cold exposure in the early morning hours of November 25th. There were injuries on his body that were most likely caused by handcuffs and that Javitz Sergeant Jarvis was aware of the suspicions, but closed the file less than three days after Neil's death without answering many questions. He dismissed important information about St. Charles death that was provided to him by two other members of the force. Because, remember, Ernie was like, hey, I have some information.

And he was like, get out of here. And then in the years that followed, senior officers also rejected or ignored reports from St. Charles family, which pointed to the inadequate investigation, which is just must be the most frustrating thing to be like the family and saying like, can you please look into this? You're supposed to be protecting us and like us solving these things and instead of causing them.

So the Justice also had eight recommendations for the government in the police. He said the justice minister should undertake a thorough review of the Saskatchewan Coroner's Act. The province should establish an introductory program through the police college for Aboriginal and other minority police candidates. There should be an advisory board to encourage First Nations people to get involved in policing.

The Justice Minister Minister should review procedures about police, conduct a pamphlet, maybe a few and maybe a few, depending on how long they are.

One of those themepark stretch pamphlets outlining the procedures should be placed in each police station interview and waiting room.

Police departments in larger cities should designate an Aboriginal officer to act as a liaison for First Nations people on their behalf. Each municipal police force should provide the Justice Minister with an annual report of complaints.

And police should receive in-depth training in race relations with refresher courses every three years. And a review should be undertaken of the courses that police candidates take in anger management and dispute resolution. So that was all given by Justice David Wright.

However, Michelle Stewart, who writes for the Vancouver Sun, noted in an article in twenty nineteen that they didn't these, although these were based on race relations, they didn't address systemic racism, which obviously nowadays is a very big conversation that we're having in the United States as well.

As far as like diversity training, quote unquote is not enough.

Right. So Neil's mother, Stella, said she felt vindicated because she never believed the police's version of events, saying they didn't want to deal with his death.

All they told me is, was that it was an accident, that he went out there by himself, probably. But in the bottom of my heart, I knew he didn't. Wow. So in May of 2004, Saskatoon police admitted that the 1990 investigation was inadequate and that mistakes have been made. And the former police chief, whose name was Russell Sabo, apologized to Stella, Neil's mother, and held a conference where he said that it was quite conceivable there were other times that this happened.

So he's basically admitting it was possible that this was.

A pattern that had happened before he then went on to reference a 1976 case where officers had been disciplined for driving a native woman to the outskirts of town and abandoning her there.

So he's like, I guess it's conceivable that it happened again this one time, like literally happened.

I didn't like the phrasing. It's conceivable. Conceivable. Also, you alone just now have made it clear that this has happened more than once. It's happened many times. And also, like you said earlier, a lot of people, at least from the First Nations community, have all said like, yeah, like are you new here? Like, of course.

Yeah, we've been saying this forever. And no one believes everyone was saying, like, this is happening, this is happening. And someone goes, it's conceivable. It's like, yeah, I get off like, no, you're right.

It's like the bare minimum. It's like what you were saying earlier, like, OK, we've got the bare minimum now. What, like yeah.

It's just it's, it's like, OK, thanks I guess. But also what's next.

Yeah. So it's a little frustrating.

On October 26 of 2004, Justice Right released the final report of the Stone Child Inquiry that find that found that stone child was in the custody of singer and Hartwig on the night that he died. So Singer and Hartwig were suspended with pay, by the way, suspended with pay, and were then fired in November of 2004.

So, again, it's like a slap on the wrist type of thing. Yeah, interestingly, and demonstrative of Chief Russel's.

So this same guy who was basically saying it's conceivable.

So this police chief, he also reported how sorry a columnist for the Times reported how during like a morning briefing, Police Chief Sabot, who was asked by a member in front of about 20 officers if he honestly believes in his mind that those two officers were responsible for St. Child's death.

He said, quote, My honest belief is that they did not do it.

OK. A second veteran officer who remains anonymous backs him up, saying it's all political. These guys are just the sacrificial lambs. So basically, they're fuckin saying, like, I don't really think they did it, but like, we needed to pin this on someone to make everybody happy.

It's just fucking infuriating.

OK, well, which is why that language like conceivable is like.

It's just I mean, also, like I can see also going back to just the it's conceivable part, it's not even the bare minimum because you're not even admitting you're still you're still saying it could not have happened. You're right. You're denying it like.

Yeah, you're leaving chance for like, oh, or we could be totally innocent. Exactly. And that's part of like.

Oh, it's just it's all political. Like it's all politics.

Like a child's death. Yeah.

But I hate when people when we when people accuse us of being political, it's like there's a certain point where this isn't fucking politics. OK, yep. Pisses me off. OK.

So despite this comment, things did start to change in Saskatoon. Thankfully, the mayor was defeated in his run for re-election by a former officer who had broken ranks and spoke out at the inquiry. So that was great. So he had spoken up in tests and testified and he became mayor, police chief. I know the mayor.

I want great take, like learn from his kids. If you speak out against corruption, maybe you'll be mayor. Yeah, no, listen, Jerry Springer was mayor of Cincinnati. If he could do it, you could do it.

A great mayor, too. Very actually was a pretty good mayor.

I guess probably the bar is not too high nowadays for political figures, but, you know, go figure.

So he so police chief Russell Sabo, who the conceivable guy, Mr. Conceivable, was fired.

And for the first time, a First Nations woman was appointed to head the City Police Commission.

So that was all OK.

GPS tracking systems are now standard and all cruisers and were instated after the report.

So new Chief of Police Clive Wakil commented, If somebody were to accuse us of taking them out of the city, I can go back three, four or five years. I can tell you where car two, three, four was at two in the morning on January 25th. I can tell you where that car went, how fast it was driving and where it stopped. So it's just adding a layer of accountability.

Yeah. So they have like an audio video system in front of the cruiser and then they have an interior one that when the back door is open to put somebody inside, it automatically starts recording. So that's good. Nice. And they have no control, like police can't turn them off. And it also I mean, it protects the public, but it also the police officers themselves are supportive of this because if there are false allegations made, it just clears up any sort of false hood on either side.

So if someone saying, you know, oh, they did this to me. Like they can say, well, here's the video proof, right? I didn't do that as if you're if you're doing a good job, I guess as you're as an officer like it, then you're.

Yeah. Being held accountable and that's fine by you. But.

So why kill and others in the Saskatoon police have also been working to keep lines of communication open with Aboriginal leaders. Apparently, the number of Aboriginal police officers has nearly doubled since the inquiry. So in 2014, according to the Star Phoenix, are 52 current Aboriginal city police officers, which was a huge increase from the 30 who were there 12 years earlier. So increasing numbers of representation, again, not necessarily enough.

Pretty bare minimum stuff and a lot of ways. So this is pretty wild.

Speaking of according to CBC 2016, a university student named Addison Herman, who grew up in Saskatoon, was working on a project about police brutality. And he uncovered that someone had been deleting the section on Starlight Tours from the Saskatoon Police Services Wikipedia page.

Oh, he's like of deleting this section.

So he said, quote, I noticed there was no section on the Starlight tour. So I looked in the article history and there was an IP address that took it off the page at the fucking police department.

Shut up.

I looked at the info for the registration on the IP address, and that IP address is registered to Saskatoon Police Service, which means that a computer from their office went on Wikipedia and took it off.

You would think they'd at least try to be slicker than that. Exactly.

It's like speaking of accountability, like, really, you think someone's watching and you go do that? That's gross.

So remember earlier when I was saying intentional negligence? That's just intentional. Intentional. Yes, exactly.

We're just going to fucking erase this. Like, we just want to cover this up. We don't want you to see it.

And on the Wikipedia page, which I just went and checked, it was like, this is it there now? Or at least it literally says police are the Saskatoon police force has deleted the section before. So now they made it worse by like deleting it, because now it's public knowledge that they tried to delete.

It certainly is now with this podcast. So. Exactly. And it's still on their Wikipedia. So good luck.

In June 2012, The Guardian reported how this is another just like so that was obviously it's coming from inside the house. It's coming from inside the police station. Right. That then in June, twenty twenty, The Guardian also reported that Canadian police had tackled and punched a prominent First Nations chief named Chief Allen Adam of Fort Chipewyan First Nation and had harassed his family in a parking lot in Alberta. So this was literally a few months ago during the, you know, the heat wave of police brutality conversations lighting back up.

Sure. And that was when The Guardian reported that Canadian police had literally attacked and punched a First Nations chief. So, again, this stuff is just to point out that it's it didn't go away like it's not like smile in rainbows.

Like it's all better, obviously.

So if you want to find out more, there are two books you can read. Pirnie wrote a book called The Unexpected Cop, and there's a book by Susanne Reber and Robinho called Starlight Tours The Last Lonely Night of Neil Stone Child. And then the criminal episode is also very, very well done. So that was the story of the Starlight Tours, not Starline Tours. Not serious.

Please don't say I was Hollywood. Oh yeah. Sorry. Also.

Wow, I still feel really, really, really bad about my misunderstanding earlier of you not knowing which chief you were talking about. You not such an asshole, but then I realized like later, you know, sorry about Chief Sabot and like that was a white police chief.

So it was confusing because the terminology is this.

I thought we were con and like a corrupt cop, an asshole. Right now we are not a like an indigenous chief. I want anyone to think I know.

No, I feel so bad I don't feel bad. When I knew what you were, I knew what you meant.

I know it was like is like a normal fine misunderstanding. And like, I'm sure no one thinks I'm like actually like a complete jackass. But that's going to be something I cringe about at three a.m. for the next.

Oh no, don't. Anyway, I'm sorry, but I have to you can go back to cringing about calling me classy trash because I love them.

Well, my what has there been. So there was a was there a chief, a police chief at all who was also a chief in the First Nations.

Because the chief chief I mean, I don't know, not in the story. I don't know in general.

But if you close, you could call yourself a double chief. And I know in college there was a girl in all my classes who was poli sci major and her last name was Justice. And she wanted to become justice. Justice late. That's actually pretty fucking dope and that's great. So if there's chief chief out there, let me know.

Hit us up. Yeah, I know there are there's also some, you know, talk of, like trying to remove terms like chief, which have been rightly taken, which are expropriation, things like. I remember early in an early episode, we used the word powwow at some point, and that still haunts me as well because we got emails about that, the terms like that that are now like obviously I'm really trying to be more aware of that.

But I know that, chief is another term that was appropriated as well. So, you know, it's all just fucked up. So welcome to America and well, America.

As of this morning, things will be fingers crossed, changing.

Yes, I did. Yeah, it's a sliver of light. Let's listen in.

20, 20, like at least we've got this. Yes.

At least we've got one. Take something. Oh. When we needed a win. Oh, and. Yup, yup, yup. I got a kitten and we have a new president so.

Yeah. Well anyway, thank you guys so much. Sorry, I know this is a longer episode than usual, but I think we both are just like ready to go with our stories or both. Yeah.

And I was like, it's Saturday morning, I'm tired. And I was like, let's talk for eight hours.

No, I like what I'm it's one of those things like I refuse to wake up super early usually, but like, if I know I have to get up, I can, you know. Oh yeah. Be on because my reward after this is a fat nap. So I'm like real excited to go, but I.

Oh my God.

Also it's raining today in L.A., so like it's not like well it's perfect aesthetic for me to go home and take a fat nap. I'll actually perfect nap weather. Yes.

I'm a little cozy. Maybe like open like like the the side door. And let's listen to the rain trickle while I fall asleep. Oh, it's gonna be so fun. That's very calming.

Well I hope you enjoy. Well wait, I'm going to like it.

I'm going to let you actually go enjoy that nap instead of making you talk anymore.

No, I'll have you send me pictures of your cat and all that will probably keep harassing you.

We'll be talking. All right. Well, thanks, everybody, for listening. You can probably see pictures of the cat or whatever on Instagram.

If you want Rudy and Julie, it's going to be.

So you really have created something for yourself there. I don't even know how that happened. It's like literally they look like the exact opposite of each other and they rhyme. So they're like the perfect evil twins. My sister calls them June Shannon Moon Apart, which makes me laugh.

OK, that's that's comedy gold. Wait a minute. Wait a minute.

OK, all right. Thanks, everybody. And that's why we drink.

They all right.

OK, so welcome, Nick, while I'm sitting here with him and I am a Virgin podcast. So while I'm in your hands, I think you've got a lot of experience at this.

But welcome to All Things Vanderpump and welcome to Villarosa.

I am excited to be here. It's everything I'm excited to have. It's really so far you have not disappointed. Oh, OK.

Well, I'm excited to continue to satisfy you. So unfortunately, you couldn't be here because you've got allergies, Jo, is that right? I have.

I would have been love sitting on your porch with, you know, a glass of rosé, a glass of wine. My voice is a nice Rahmon, rum and coke.

I could facilitate that as well. You know, we'll start with a cup of tea would end with a rum and coke. Well, here I have got a smorgasbord of things to be allergic to. So if it's not the flowers and the lavender and the grass and the birds, I've got. No, I'm not. No, cos you I'm saying if you've got allergies, I've got horses, turtles, swans, six dogs that may be your knight may be sneezing and spluttering.

You are a fish. You are officially taught to do tickle. You know I am a bit eccentric. A lot of people say batshit crazy but I'm going with eccentric so I was like bickie like you lets me play live.

I don't know why you're judging people that like you're no angel, like this crap you do on the show is crazy. Like you've peed on the bed you were with. She peed on the bed.

She's peed whenever she wanted to be on the bed in the scene. Vicky, she was laughing despite all over the Tamara's hotel bed.

What on purpose? You know, I don't know. But I'm sure we've all been somewhere where we shouldn't be laughing hysterically right now.

So it was kind of a good way to laugh. So, yes, it's learning to manipulate them with it when they're very young. With the glove puppet, it became part of the family. Hey, listen, I was a crazy mother. I'm a crazy woman.