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I basically only do shipping from my own house now, including holiday shipping, including shipping.


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Never go to the post office again. All right, take it away, Christine. I was hoping you'd start that way. I'm very glad that my improbabilities kicked in immediately.


I love Mom and Dad. Wow. OK, so our our first hypothesis back in twenty seventeen went a little different than expected. More people than just our moms. Listen to this episode.


Oh, my gosh. I can't believe it. It's so weird because. Well, OK. Hello, everyone. This is our two 100th episode.


Welcome to us. Being arguably the most extra we've ever been.


Kelly, this is so wild. I've been so emotional like the last two days.


Christine texted me yesterday out of nowhere just to say I'm proud of us and I want I'm just oh, so emotional. I texted my mom.


I was like, I can't believe we're doing our two 100th episode. Did you listen to the first episode? I did. We sound so tiny.


I got hives. I was like, I can't do this. I had to do it in chunks. I was so stressed. I was really embarrassed for myself.


I just because, like, not that there's really right or wrong way to podcast, but obviously we didn't entirely know what we were doing it.


And just it I think we've we it's a nice hmm. It's a nice pinpoint in the scrapbook of my memories to be like, oh, look how much I've grown. Like, I don't really talk like that anymore. And I'm like, look how little I've grown.


I sound just exactly the same and I drink just as much.


But did you do you remember recording it? I remember where we were sitting.


I remember it. Kitchen table. We kicked blazoned, Alexander out of the room and I was so nervous.


Oh, my God. I remember not really knowing you. Well, you fuckin hated me and I hated him.


Let's talk about that. Oh, really? You guys did not get along?


We did not. It was one of those friendships where, like, later on, your first real confession to each other is when I first met you, I thought you were a bitch. And but like now I love you.


That was the friendship we had for sure. It was. Oh, my God. I honestly, I was like like emotionally. I was like tearing up listening to it. It was this is such a weird glimpse into our friendship.


It was one of those things I obviously hello. I'm dramatic. So one of my things that I do often that probably no one else does is when I get really nostalgic, I play things in my head like a dramatic montage that they do on like the 100th episode of a TV series and like it like all the flashbacks, I kind of play one by one. And I was thinking, when I listen to that episode, like you said, the like, you are nervous about getting on stage for improv and like, look, what the fuck has happened to a sentence like and you were like, yeah, I would never get on stage.


Well, it's wild to think that when we were having that conversation, I we really knew nothing about each other.


And you told me about Linda, you were talking about Linda. And I was like, oh, like I had no concept of who Linda was. And now I'm like, oh, my God. Can you imagine a world in which. I don't know, Linda?


It was one of the last days where you didn't know I was a clown. And well, I that's the one part that I really miss, is that part of my life where I didn't have that information also to get, like, selfishly sappy to like, I I had no idea you'd introduce me to Alison.


Like, right now. I didn't either. We had no idea I would officiate your wedding either. Well, I guess it happened specifically to me, so it's not even clear to you.


I know it was your wedding, but, you know, I take a backseat and watch it happen as usual. I'm good.


Let's put it this way. At your wedding, I was center stage. You were slightly to my right.


I guess you're right. You're you're right. You're literally in the middle of the church like it's not a church, but like in the middle of the aisle. That's true.


Well, OK, so we wrote some notes, I think, here on, like, things that happened, I'm sure.


Did you want to talk about, like, what's happening? We have big news, I guess.


Let's say that we have. We have. Wow, OK. Oh, my gosh. So much is going on.


We didn't prepare for this very well. So that's nothing's changed in that regard. Two hundred episodes might as well be one. So, yeah. Let's talk about let's talk about the big news first. Let's get all updates out of the way. OK. OK, OK. Big news, big news. We've been working on a big project. It was amazing idea. And it's come to life. I take it away.


Oh my goodness. So I don't know if it was it was it was a small idea that just kind of spiraled, which seems to be our chaotic, neutral. And obviously I don't read books. So obviously that has also not changed since.


But I but I do read comic books and I thought, wouldn't it be cool if we had and and that's why we bring comic book. And so we decided that we were going to hire one of my friends who is a very wonderful artist. His name's Justin and he made. A comic book of our first episode that we I mean, I was like, OK, I mean, go for it.


I don't really know what that means, but it is I mean, great, good on you because it is like just premo.


I'm good. I'm good on just I had the idea and then he just ran with it but it's so, it's so cool. And also again because I don't read, it's a very short comic book. It's only like like a dozen pages or so, but there's so much art and detail that went into it. And like he found a way to make like Jonestown, like it's like the top.


It's like basically a comic book of us telling going through our first episode. So like Winchester and then Jonestown, but like in comic book form with us as kind of like guides.


It's so cute. I'm so excited, very precious. So anyway, that is now as of the time you're listening to this available, but we only have a limited amount of comic books.


Comic books have very specific guidelines you have to follow apparently. So you have to order them in a very specific amount, like a certain batch of sorts. And then like, yeah. So anyway, we only have a certain amount. There's only a couple hundred out there, right. Or no. If a couple of thousand or five thousand, I'm not sure how many we ended up with either five hundred or five thousand.


So it could really, really rare. Could be better.


But if while it's available might only be available for like today only then then you can get that on our website.


So thank you. It's at Merche Dotcom because it's being sold through our merch folks. They're lovely enough to help us send those out.


So thank you, Justin. Thank you to our merch folks. Thank you to everybody listening. Who is considering buying one?


I'm going to buy one because I don't know how else to get my hands on a copy. So I'm very excited.


And then we have other merch selling to. Right, we do. OK, so we thank you to Eva because my ass would have forgotten, but so Eva actually brought one in. If you happen to recognize this, let me do like a little backsplash. If you were to recognize this. This is one of our original wine glasses. So if you recall from a couple episodes ago, last time Christine was in town, I surprised her and decorated our entire apartment in, like, unboxed everything.


Right. And while I was there and when I was unboxing things, I found just so much like old school, first time Merche, I had basically taken it from my house where it had been stored in a closet for over three years and then just dumped it in the apartment.


So, yeah. And it was the last time that we used that merch was when Christine was literally shipping everything out from Lake from House of Pies specially.


And and so then we ended up working with a merch company and then we never really had to ship that stuff out. So we never thought about it again. But I realized how much stuff we still had. And so we have original wine glasses. We have original cruises that used to get sent out to all of our Patreon people that when we have like ten patron members. Yeah, that was one of your your special gifts and all of the original.


And that's why we drink shirts that I personally screen printed on my lunch breaks at my old job at work and handmade them and then go hand covered of it is owned dog fur.


So true the they're the ones you might have seen them before or on on tour. A lot of people who had original shirts would wear them to our shows, but on the back it has, it looks like a tour. It was us manifesting a tour one day. Right. And it was the locations where the original ten stories that we covered.


So there's like Dionna for Jonestown, like this day, people are like, did you really go to Guyana?


And yeah, we did. We went to the jungle.


But anyway, so we we only have so many of those and they are never they're never going to be made again. I'm never going back to my old job to screen printed shirts.


So it's not I'm never going on to like Custom Inc or wherever I was making those wine glasses and like a hand spinning the logo.


So whatever we have left, we are now also for our two 100th episode. We are putting that out on our website as well. So please go get that while you can. It's a limited edition, like a throwback to our oji merch.


Exactly what else was I going to say? Was there one more thing? Yes, there was. So also, speaking of merch, we are very aware that our Black Friday Cyber Monday deal went a little too well and a lot of things are completely sold out. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, that's exciting. Yeah, it went really well. A lot of people have also been asking us to offer merch again or to put out more sizes.


So we are on top of all that. But just so everyone is aware, if you're hoping like, oh, I hope I can get something before the holidays, there's a chance that we're probably not going to have things back in. The stock, again, until after the holidays, right? So just be prepared for that. So there are things available, still a few things that that are still available. But then a lot of the ones that are are out of stock, basically, you're saying or they won't be restocked.


Yes. OK, well, they will be eventually. But if you're hoping to get it by Christmas, we cannot promise that that's the case. Just letting you know it will be there.


Eventually, though, there's a live laugh, lemon hoodie, y'all.


So somebody better get on that and buy that before it goes out of sale, because I'm not speaking of lemon, but we have a guest in honor and honorable guests today, Broadleaf.


I brought Lemon, my sweet boy, everyone here at Castle Studios is just calling the authorities just like they're like, I don't want to do this anymore. I fuckin quit. Here is a dried up lemon from a encased in glass.


I just wanted to prove to everybody, because for the last year he's been with me during quarantine and everyone thinks I like killed Lemon, including Lemon, by the way, dead lemon already said everyone like I'm not saying I get legitimate hate mail, but I get a lot of people like getting real wordy in defense of lemon being like, where the fuck is he? Because you won't show us to him on Instagram just starting to get worked up. People were like riling me up in my dreams, like, you need to make em prove it.


He's fine. I'm holding them hostage. If anyone asks, he's doing great and he'll agree today. And then he goes back in the closet.


So he has to hold up a newspaper with today's date on it for you to do like like a free Britney thing and like wear a yellow shirt or something.


He's he's wearing a yellow shirt. That means trouble. Oh, anyway, how Lemmon's in the house.


So there you go. Thanks, Lemon. Love you. Love you mean it. Wow. Well, that's a very exciting update. Thank you. You're welcome.


Christine, I can smell you all the way across the country and you smell delightful, finally minty, you are finally very bouncy. And if you're wondering I smell like vanilla, coconut, furlaud, I can smell you. Sure. Isn't it blissful? We just smell like each other's armpits. Yeah. And that's because we love native deodorant.


It's true. Native is a perfect addition to your daily routine this holiday season. I started wearing the peppermint and I went downstairs. It was like, you smell really nice.


I like where you go. I started wearing it too. And I was like, I am a walking candy cane.


I it's it's a lovely place. Places like, oh, you smell lovely. And I was like, great. Finally, I guess smells like a winter wonderland.


So their candy cane gifts, it also makes for a great gift option. And all the products are great stocking stuffers for anyone on your list. I personally love getting deodorant in my stocking.


It's so nice. I have a great gift. Just like socks. I mean, so useful, so useful. Native deodorants don't even just block odor better. They're made better. So they have ingredients you've heard of like coconut oil, shea butter. They're vegan, which I love. They're never tested on animals, which is awesome.


And they have some really awesome flavors like candy cane. I mean, listen, you can't get better than that.


You get more seasonal than that Shop Natives holiday collection today by going to native drink or use promo code, drink at checkout and get 20 percent off your first order.


That's native dotcom slash drink or use promo code. Drink a check out for twenty percent off your first order.


Christine, look at look at your chest. It looks great, like always cute. I have a hunch you're wearing a third love bra. Is that true?


It's like, you know me so well. Yes, I. And as always, because they are the only ones that I can wear anymore through the rest of them out.


Yes. So third, love uses the measurements of millions of people to design bras with all the comfort and support and they stand behind their products. So if you don't love it, do not worry. Exchanges and returns are free for 60 days.


Look, I'm going to pretend I'm Christine ready. First, I do the 15 year quiz, which I've done a million times. But guess what? I don't care. And I'm going to do it a million more times because I love a good cause. And not only do I learn about my size, but if I take the third loves online, find our quiz to find the size. I also find out styles that are also right for me because it's just a few clicks of just a few simple questions.


It's so easy. And over 50 million women have taken the quiz to date. How did I do?


Wow, that's alarming. Actually, I think maybe you can just take over the whole show and talk to yourself the whole time. Thank you.


Me and my my box of chocolate milk over here.


Yeah. So basically, third, liberals are the real deal. They're actually comfortable, which is very important, especially during these times. You don't want to struggle through and suffer through uncomfortable because it's just not worth it.


Also, third, Love donates all their gently used return bras to people in need supporting charities in their local San Francisco Bay Area and across the U.S. And they've donated over 20 million dollars in bras, which is also really cool.


Third live nose. There's a perfect bra for everyone. So right now they're offering our listeners 10 percent off your first order.


Go to third love dotcom slash drink now to find your perfect fitting bra and get 10 percent off your first purchase. That's third love dotcom slash drink for 10 percent off today.


For all you foodies out there unwrapping a McDonald's steak, egg and cheese bagel. Look at this steak and the juice running down the side. Get a little bit on the wrapper here. And then a fluffy egg and real cheese floated over the side, looking just so good. Mm hmm. Grilled onions on about a bagel, two thumbs up, a McDonald's steak, egg and cheese bagel for breakfast. Love it.


Oh, bah bah bah bah bah.


I participate in McDonald's also before I forget, because we obviously started with, you know, wine and a milkshake. I did bring a little milkshake. And before people are wondering, it's hanging out right here.


So. Well, since since we're doing that, then I just want to add that in the first episode I was drinking boxed Trader Joe's wine.


And this morning I drove all the way to Trader Joe's. Oh, and I bought this box from Trader Joe's Shiraz and I had a chocolate milkshake.


So look at us. I love my God.


I at a picture of my shopping cart, I had to wait in line in twenty nine degree weather because Trader Joe's has a line out the door. So you're going to be a little warm after you drink that baby. So don't worry, I'll open this. Will you tell your update's you're going to crack into it.


Crack into it. OK, well now that we've had that little two hundred episodes later moment, I would like to give you two updates. So one of them, I'm nervous. I'm nervous about both of them to tell you I'm nervous about everything.


Well, one of them I'm nervous about, because by the time this episode comes out, fingers crossed it'll be completely done. But I haven't finished it yet. So I feel nervous. And I'm motivated by fear that I that I actually get it done in time. But as I couldn't do this, I feel bad because you're for one hundredth you were here and wow. Was that an extravaganza where there was.


Yes. Presence galore.


And I posted on Instagram, I lost my security deposit to the confetti. Yeah. That was how big of a celebration it was. That was one way to go.


But I feel bad, though, like we have to do this digitally and you're not here for it to get any presents. So I was like, well, I want to give Christine some sort of digital present.


So I'm currently in the middle of Slash. By the time this episode comes out, there will be I am trying my best to make you an online and that's why we drink escape room because we know how the first one went. I promise I would never make another escape room, but here I go lying to myself and we're going to make it available for everyone else to also do what? So I know I'm panicking because I'm like, I'm really going to go, but I'm in the middle of it and I'm really liking it.


But I'm also disappointed with technology that I, I literally tried to figure out how to like code video games.


It's been really wild. Oh, my gosh. It's going to be a definitely a dumbed down version because guess what? I learned I can't code video games. So so it's like going to be like basically like a Google Drive situation, but we're going to give access. To everyone, so if you are listening to this and I have done my my work and my job will be able to play exciting, so we'll have that link somewhere in the cyber sphere.


So I cannot believe that.


How cool. So I hope you I hope you like it. I'm sorry I can't present it to you, but the second that I'm finished with that, it will be sent to you. And I would like a review. Well, there's something coming your way too, but I'm not going to reveal anything because I feel like I'm going to give it away. But it is also digital. OK. Oh my God. OK, well then this is the last gift because there had to be I can't do just do one gift.


So it was supposed to be a much better gift and even knows about it because I called her for that. Right.


So don't ask me how, but I got Farmer Bob's phone number and stop.


I'm hyperventilating right now.


Just. Are you serious? Yeah.


So I, I have spoken to farmer Bob and so here was what the original plan was.


Right, Amethi. I was going to I was going to call Farmer Bob and record our conversation. I was going to ask him if he had any ghost stories. And for the two hundred ups that I was going to read the ghost stories of Farmer Bob to just do a full circle of 200 episodes for anyone who knows. Christine and I became friends on a tractor ride and twenty 2016 and the tractor driver happened to be named Farmer Bob.


And that was where we learned that we both like true crime and goes on said tractor.


And that was, by the way. So we all we all have a lot of wonderful skills. And amongst the and that's why we drink family. Christine is known as like the Internet sleuth. If you give her steam, if you give Christine like someone's eye color, she will learn everything about her. And I was like, you know what, I'm going to pull Christine. I'm going to figure it out. And all I had to go off of was his name is Farmer Bob.


But I figured it out and I got his phone number and oh, my God, I'm so proud of you.


I was a mess when I called to I was first of all, I got his phone number. And then because I got it so close to us recording this and I needed the recording like a crazy person, I was calling him a bunch of times and he didn't know who I was. I was calling to see him.


I my phone inside is giving me, like, again, hives, hives. But then and then I was stupid.


I didn't leave a voicemail. And I know because I was panicking, I was like, how what first? OK, Christine, you tell me what you would have said on that voicemail.


I would have written it down and spent six hours a script like I do for when I call my doctor, I write down what I'm going to say, like that's how bad my anxiety is.


Well, Alison was like, that man is never going to call you if he thinks you're like spam or something like you have to leave a voicemail.


So I like after the 20th phone call, I left a voicemail and I was frantic. I mean, I didn't know what I was doing. First of all, I'm pretty sure I call them farmable on the voicemail.


I wait. You mean his voice? I love that you've reached farmer Bob. And then it ended with a U-Haul, I think in the I blacked it out, but I'm pretty sure in the voicemail I went, hi, you don't know me. This is very random. But in 2016, you were by tractor driver at a harvest festival. And I've been trying to find you for three years thinking about you every day.


My God.


And I, I tried to explain. I tried so hard, but the length of what a voicemail allows. Oh, God, I just like this makes no sense to you. But I host a podcast and it's like gone really, really well. And it wouldn't have happened if my friend and I hadn't really met on your tractor ride. And you've become this kind of law in our lives. And we've always wondered, you know, where Farmer Bob was.


So we want to know all about you. So I got really panicky. And when I hung up, I looked at Alison.


I was like, that man is never going to fucking call. Why would he? No sane man would be like if we were in the world of, like land lines, she would have unplugged the flies.


And I'm like, oh, sorry, I had to cut you off.


Well, I, I was like, OK, well that was a bust.


Like, I've just signed my death warrant on that relationship. And then like five minutes later farmer Bob calls me know and I was like, holy shit, Alison was right. That was the name of the game here because like the second I threw out a voicemail, he showed up. You didn't. OK, anyway, go on, he answered.


And thank God he's probably also a little insane like us, because he seemed very jovial. He seemed lovely.


And I did. I think he also for as confused as a man. With a phone call like that, he came off as very kind and like I was trying so hard to like, reiterate now that I had more time than a voicemail, I was trying to tell him what had happened. And I was like, I know we talked about this on the voicemail, but like, you were our tractor driver.


And I know this is really that much I've gathered. And I was like, I don't think you realize it, but like, you kind of have a fan base. Like I've gotten messages from people before saying, like, if it weren't farmer Bob, like none of us would have the show. And so, like, we we just always wanted to find you and at least say thank you. And so I thanked him probably too much. And he was very appreciative.


And and then I said, you know, even the year after the show came out, we tried to go back to the festival and get a tractor ride from you. And he said, oh, well, I, I only twenty sixteen. I was the last time I did it. And then I actually went back this year. So I'm going to start trying to do it again. And I said twenty twenty one farmer, Bob, I'm going to see you and we want to shake your hand and say thank you and get a picture with you.


And I did ask him if at any point if he would want to either be on the show or be willing to like, answer some questions for us. And he he did say if if you ever call again, I'll definitely answer. And he was very, very kind. And he didn't have any spooky stories, which I was disappointed by. But also I told Alison and she was like, well, did you ask anything else? Like, did he have any, like, true crime experiences or what's his favorite cryptid?


And I was like I just started talking to the Smiths. I was like, I literally I like, what do you do when you pick up a phone and someone says, you are my tractor driver three years ago, I can't get you off of my mind. People love you and you don't know what is your favorite cryptid?


Oh, no, I'm not weird. How do you feel about the top floor anyway?


I am going to try to call him again sometime this week and hopefully get an email address from him because God, I would love to send him exciting.


I'd like to send them a link to this podcast that he'll probably never listen to, but I want him to feel included. And if I do get his email address, hopefully we can do some sort of farmer bob present that includes everyone, like doing getting from a job or something. I know I had I had to bring it up.


But everybody, if you're listening, I hope it's OK that we call you Farmer Bob first. We invented that name to be clear. And second of all, thank you so much for giving us like a life changing tractor.


Right, Christine? I am going to end it on this note. The thing I told Alison and the thing I told Eve on the thing that made me lose so much sleep last night is I I remember on the phone call, I kept calling him Farmer Bob and Mike.


And up to a point where in my head I remember thinking, you're saying Farmer Bob a lot.


And I was probably like, that's really not my name. And I was like, I got to wrap this up. And so I ended the phone call before I could say from about a thousandth time. But he at least you know what he is. He's a dude who ran with with the punches, seemed receptive to it. So he did. So farmer Bob, we welcome you. We embrace you. And thank you for the two hundred episodes unknowingly part of our family are.


And that's why we drink family.


He's probably filling out a restraining order right now. Yes, correct. So you're going to come home to police presence at your home. Exactly. Wow. Well, thank you.


And that's that's just such a thoughtful and I mean, as soon as the phone rings, I that's like the boldest thing I've ever heard of. It's a true gift from me. Yeah, it is.


I, I could never do something like that. So I really do. Thank you.


So I guess we should announce what we're doing for our two 100th episode. Oh my God. Welcome to a half an hour later.


Did you literally did you know this this is how this is going to be just like our first episode where it's eight hours long and our first episode was actually pretty short because we didn't know how to do research yet.


So we have very minimal stories. But we we decided what we're going to do for two hundred is we're going to revisit Episode one and redo our stories with current research methods, abilities, current Internet access.


We've had two hundred times to practice researching. So this is I do want to say before we get into it, I did bring with me my original note. That were higher than on a legal pad. They were handwritten, and just so we know, I usually have a lot more to say. Wow, look at that. It is the most chicken scratch I've ever seen in my life. But if you can see it at all, I don't know if I remember left on the table, I can't see it, but I remember what it looks like.


The date says February 4th. I wrote these.


Wow. February 4th. OK, so I remember that you left those on my table and I said, what am I supposed to do with this? And you said, throw them away. And I went, I'm not throwing them away. And so I put them in my filing cabinet for like years. I had them my filing cabinet. And then there were a couple more. I had I had like six sets of your notes because you would handwrite them all and I couldn't bring myself to throw them away.


So I was like, there's no other copy.


Well, if it weren't for you, I this wouldn't be possible.


So I don't have my first notes, but that's probably for the best. Well, you know what else you did keep, which I found with this, because this was all at the apartment. So I just ran over and grabbed it this morning. But so are original notes. And without showing your old address, this is our receipt to our first audio equipment.


Yes, I kept that, too. I forgot about that when we spent literally every single dollar we had combined because I was like, I might need to call my parents and be like, I did this thing and I have zero dollars.


I need help. So that's why I saved that receipt.


This is where we show the picture of my screenshot for my Venmo to you. So.


Oh, good idea. And remember, episode one, the show is actually called Irion Theory for what's called Irion Theory.


Also, we it's so funny. We called it and that's why we drink. And it was about how we disappointed our parents that week, which still that hasn't changed. So I don't know who is.


Listen to Episode one recently or if ever, if you're listening backwards and you're very confused.


But I listened to it.


First of all, my notes are that it was terrible audio, which I remember being so upset about at the time. But I was like, well, we're not redoing it.


So it was terrible audio for for a first podcast episode. It was better bad audio than some other podcast.


Yeah, that's true. I was like tweaking it too much and then it got out of control. Also, I missed you, so that's fun.


So if you didn't knock for the record, let's say it wasn't like I. Yeah, I wasn't intentional obviously. But before anyone writes in and tries to get protective, I appreciate you, but Christine had no fucking clue.


I was like, do you want to be called Emily? And you're like, no, I owe you that much. I knew. Yeah, that part was clear. So I apologize for that. That was Cringely. I just was. So I was using my, like, really nervous stage voice. And I was like, oh, my God, I'm listening to this. Like, I'm taking this so seriously.


And I was so nervous and we were just like, I don't know, it was just so fun to listen to our first ever episode. We were we were trying our best, which I appreciate and like, yes, for someone who had one thousand percent performance anxiety or both of us, we did a pretty good job.


Apparently, we were so scared.


I remember like shaking. I was like and we were just in my living room. It's not like we were doing this in front of everybody, but I was so scared.


Christine, I have officially, well, almost officially finished my Christmas shopping, and I have I have I am not going home this year. I know I've said that in the past or in past episodes, but I'm not going home. So I'm actually shipping all of my Christmas gifts to my family that I would usually be with. And luckily, has me covered, has been so easy.


It's a life saver, honestly, because I'm like, how did I in the past ever mail things? And honestly, I probably didn't mail things because I was like, I don't want to go to you. Just stop it just left them at a post office and then just never saw them again.


I'm pretty sure I left them in a closet and went, Oh, well, they'll understand.


But now I can sit, like literally sit in this very place that I'm sitting right now that you see me, my printer is right there. I can print my postage and I can just say, like, hey, mail carrier, please pick up my mail and deliver it to my mother in law far, far away. So I don't have to go to the post office. I mean, this service is amazing. It's brilliant. Basically, you use your computer to official U.S. postage, like real deal postage, 24/7 for any letter, any package, any class mail, anywhere you want to send it.


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OK, so my family asked me what I want for Christmas this year, and basically I was like, just just socks, just something useful. Dirty socks. Sure. Now I live somewhere cold. All I want is socks. Makes me feel really like an adult, like a grown up. Got to wrap up the little toes in the snowy weather.


Yeah. And you think it sounds boring, but it's really not, because now we are our lovely feet have had the experience of trying features get it features Luvox love. A good like life would never be the same.


I know it's interesting. When I was younger I was one of those kids. I was like, why on earth would my aunt give me socks? And now I'm like, Hey, Aunt Tracy. Hey and Andrea, where are my socks that you loved giving me back then? Because I had features.


So elite runners, unlike ourselves around the world, have loved features for years. But nowadays they're not just for runners, thank God, because otherwise they wouldn't be on my feet. They're all they are. They're also for nappers. They're also for couch potatoes. They're also for people in Corindi. And there's also for people who like to eat out of the fridge at three a.m. It's for everyone. So for everyone. Luckily, I've got features all the time.


I've got I'm always on. I'm a tootsie's. Basically, they have these zone specific compression points, like for for target support, which you really feel like you put them on and it's like like a hug. And I said this before, it's like a hug on your feet, like it's compression in the right spots on your feet. So whether you're running, whether you're working out, whether you're literally just hanging around your house, they really feel really nice.


They're like molded to your foot. There's a left and a right sock. So you put the right one on the right foot like it is custom fit there.


Honestly, next level, my mom and I, we both have a plantar fasciitis. And yeah. So it my feet hurt all the time, like as if I'm an elite runner by the way. But like when I like I'm just walking from my bedroom to the laundry room, it, my feet hurt. And so these socks really when I say they feel like a hug, like it's so much easier to walk in these things if it feels amazing.


So they really are doing their job.


I don't know how it works because they're like cute and adorable and beautiful. And then they're like, hey, I'm also going to fix your paint. I don't at it. I don't get it. It's wild. You can get ten dollars off your first pair of features just in time for the holidays. Use promo code, drink at features dot com for ten dollars off your first pair.


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Let's read the the original little prompt in our show notes for episode one. It was called Francis Ford Coppola. Two hundred episodes later, I still don't know how to say it. I think it's Francis Ford Coppola. OK, and the off brand koolade. And it was released February 9th, 2017. And here is the prompt. I wrote it in my handy dandy phone book. OK, get your wine and milkshakes ready. Good writing, Christine. Thank you.


It's time for the first episode of And that's Why We Drink, Christine, all about one of the most haunted places in America, the Winchester Mystery House. Christine tells me about the most famous mass suicide in history. Yeah, though the flavor of the Kool-Aid is still up for debate. Thanks so much for joining us. If you like this up. So please take a moment to read and subscribe hashtag. And that's why we truly love putting hash tags in our show.


Notes that sensible?


Well, I also thought found something very interesting, which was that we immediately came up with a celebrity nickname Crem, which, by the way, later we were to birth the child named Cremin.


Is that not the weirdest thing in the world? It is weird. Krumpet and I was like, wow, we didn't even think. And you said like crime, which I thought was funny, but we didn't even think of like creme de la creme.


Like there were so many things we could have done with that. Like we should have should have thought of it. It is way better. Yeah. So I was just very impressed. And you brought up lemons in the first episode. I was going to say, which a lot of people still say, yeah, yeah. That was making lemonade out of lemons or something. It was like lemonade.


It was my own future self kicking myself.


Oh, it was, it was somehow there was something celestial about that.


I think it was me coming back and just whispering in your ear, like talk about Levon's, you'll understand later. But yeah. And then really quick just to give people. I just wanted to tell people what was also happening in the world real quick, tick tock had only been released five months ago and it wasn't worldwide yet, so you probably hadn't heard of it. I can't believe technology existed back then. Me either. I feel like I just discovered Twitter back then.


Yeah. Also, L.A. saw the women's march after Trump's inauguration.


And it was. It was yeah. I remember that day. It was the largest single day protest in U.S. history at the time.


Does anyone understand the context of our podcast like this is what? My depression. This is where I was in the lowest part of my life. And I was like, do you want to start a podcast? And I was like, no.


And then Blayse said, You need a hobby because I was just moping around because two weeks before our podcast, Trump became president for the CIA. And I was like, I'm not ever leaving my bed again.


And that's why we fucking drank. And then also we are older. Our show is older than the intended switch and we're only four years younger than Zach Bagel Bites Haunted Museum.


That's wild. It's like it's like the ghost had something in store for all of us.


They were they were also manifesting anyway. Yes. So I just wanted to put everybody back to a time before twenty twenty, if you don't mind, a simpler time.


But I'm like it wasn't though like if you think about it, it really wasn't, it wasn't much simpler, it was less complex, but it was still slightly a fucking nightmare. It was like it was still on fire. It was a totally a dumpster fire. It was like the match had been lit in the dumpster and we didn't know what was happening it and we were kind of closing our eyes and pretending we didn't see it.


But here it is.


So my favorite part of Episode one was why we were drinking that week. Yours was because you had an improv show and it was scaring you that you were going to have to be on stage, which is not comical.


Yeah, right. And I think I don't know if you mentioned it in the show anymore or maybe you said it at the time after we recorded. But that was the first time I ever heard of propranolol. And I went, oh yeah, I was.


You were like, how do you do it? I was like, this is the only way I can function you again. That was just like so foreshadowing. And then I was drinking because I lost my credit card and my mom was currently helping me survive until I was able to get money back in my name. And I remember being like I remember thinking it doesn't even matter. They don't have my credit card cause I just spent every last dollar I have on this fucking recording equipment, so.


Oh, right.


We don't have money anyway. Right. But also, I love that you are. Weren't you moving.


You are moving. I was moving in with RJ for the first time. I think I was moving in with RJ.


Oh that's right. And you had a roommate who I lived in Glendale and I, I was renting a room out of a townhouse and he was never around. So it was like a pretty swanky deal for me because I lived in arguably a very, very fancy space and on a very desirable location. And he was never home. So I just had like a two bedroom townhouse to myself. But also it was super expensive and I had no money, as I just said.


So RJ was like, I have a really, really cheap room for you.


And I went, great, you're my new roommate for the rest of my law.


So yeah, that's why I was drinking. That's so cool, guys. Huh.


Anyway, should we get into it? Yeah, I decided I'm going to pour my my oh I'm going to pour my box wine.


Oh, excellent. I love watching you struggle.


I like that, just like in episode one, you can just hear it in the background like a summer is also I wore and then that's why I drink sweatier and I'm drinking out of and that's why I drink glass is like an homage to something we never thought would happen, that we had our own merch.


I'm wearing a Boston sweatshirt for us and the my izhak because that's where I was working when we started. I surprisingly don't have any Bertsch. I had like one shirt and that's it. So and have one of your shirts.


That's the shirt I had. And then you took it. So anyway, that's kind of romantic on its own, so. Oh, here is my story. The Winchester Mystery House 2.0. So as you remember from Episode one, or maybe you don't I don't know how I remembered it, but I think the reason I picked the story originally was because it starts in Boston and ends in California. Right.


Just like you and me. So. Oh, so the years 1860 to a much simpler time. And it's in it's actually starting in New Haven, Connecticut, first. So hang in there. There was a guy named William Wirt, West Chester, three W's, and he married Sarah Lockwood party and they soon started building their home. Sarah Lockwood party become Sarah Winchester, the main character of this story. And William was the son of Oliver West Chester, who manufactured the he was part of the manufacturing for Winchester Rifle Company.


Right. And so Sarah married into this family and I guess all over West Chester. He was really important for the company because he reorganized it. And he also helped manufacture this very specific rifle that was like the first ever repeating rifle, which I'm not sure what that means because I am not really a gun fan, but.


Oh, you're not. Apparently, all over all this time, we're still learning things right.


Apparently, all of the soldiers from the Civil War really dug it. So it became like the gun to have, ah, the rifle to have.


And so they ended up making this huge fortune and the company just exploded, not literally because of the guns or anything, but like like financially, it was doing very well because it was like right right after or during the Civil War and right after the Civil War was when I really got big. So so Sarah, before she married, she was a socialite and she was known as the belle of New Haven. This is a quote about her. By the age of 12, Sarah was already fluent in Latin, French, Spanish and Italian.


OK, you're not special ME2 same. Furthermore, her knowledge of the classics, notably Homer and Shakespeare, along with a remarkable talent as a musician for playing three instruments, was well noticed. She says. OK, so by the time she was in seventh grade, she like ran the world in a tick tock star for sure. Oh my God.


Yes, she would have gone viral like she might have been on Ellen, let's put it that way. She would have been on Ellen.


She she she would have done like the little press circuit. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Speaking all of her languages.


Sure. In 1866, Sarah and William had a daughter named Anne. Only five and a half weeks later, though, she died from a disease called I think I think it's pronounced murderousness.


And it's basically like I guess her body had this issue where it couldn't metabolize protein. And so she ends up just being, like, wildly malnourished.


Oh, so she passed away and then they never had kids after that. But that's so sad. Obviously, after five and a half weeks and then your your baby passes, she went into like a wild depression and then an eighteen eighty one. Both William and Oliver, they are I think it was William Oliver and her own father all died like all back to Bo. Yikes. And so or at least like within a few months of each other. I know William died of tuberculosis and then the father died from unknown fun fact, from unknown, from unknown on it.


So tuberculosis consumption and unknown. And so when William and Oliver both died, they left everything to Sarah in the will. And so she basically inherited all three hundred of their shares in stock and she ended up accumulating or being and she ended up inheriting almost fifty percent of the company. And this was in 1881. And income tax didn't become a thing until nineteen thirteen. So no. So none of that money was taxable. So she basically was handed twenty million dollars, which in today's world is five hundred forty million dollars.


Casual actually casual. Real fun fact. When I first did this episode the number was like five hundred ten but since yeah I remember it was lower. Yeah.


So now it's five, five hundred forty million.


Also imagine first of all getting five hundred million dollars or five hundred forty million dollars, but I'll try and then find out like oh that's not all she because she also with this will she earned a daily income of a thousand dollars a day from the company which in today's world was is over.


Twenty five thousand dollars, I don't even know what that means, like, I can't comprehend that with my brain, imagine being told, oh, you're you're going to get twenty five grand every single day for the rest of your life until you die. Also, let's just add an extra five hundred forty mil as a backup plan just in case in case you blow through it.


So it's like tough life. So she was really struggling, obviously financially. She just couldn't spend the money fast enough.


What a problem to have. What a problem. But so even despite all this money, she's still in this wild depression. Everyone that she loves has died around her. And she's starting to think that this isn't just a coincidence. So keep in mind that this was right after the Civil War, a.k.a. the first rise in spiritualism because. Right. Everyone's husbands, brothers, sons, friends, all died in the war. And so now all of these women back home and children back home are really getting into the idea of the afterlife.


And then after one of the world wars, I think World War One after. I forget which one after the world where there's a resurgence later in spiritualism, I see. Which was, I think like the Houdini era.




So she thinks like maybe it's not a coincidence that everyone died around me. And so she goes to Boston because apparently over there is like this like very well known medium. His name is Adam Koons and he is known, at least in Boston as the Boston Med..


And I remember that I remember commenting how original that name was. I still stand by that comment. Well, and I remember saying in the first episode, I was like maybe in the 80s, like he was the only comedian in Boston. So, like, you just got that title. Yeah. So it can make sense. I don't know otherwise. I mean, like, today I'm the I don't know what am I'm vla.


You're the Burbank Fish flopper. Look, I couldn't I couldn't come in today without representing, so, I mean, you could have felt like you didn't send and Gil our my my support system today all support.


So, yeah. So she goes to arguably the only medium around. And basically the Boston medium says, you're right, this is not a coincidence, your family's curse and you are being haunted by the spirits of all the people who have died by Winchester rifles. Oh dear.


Including every single civil war soldier because it was the most popular gun. So like everyone in the war is like if you stretch, like all the women in all the violence of the war is your fault.


Every person who died in the civil war is your fault.


Also, any indigenous people, anyone who just happens to own one of your rifles and killed someone. So thank God it's all bad. So this medium says to appease the spirits and for them to forgive you or to at least leave you alone, you need to move west and you need to build a house for them and honor of them. But construction must never stop.


And if it does stop ever, you will die next, which is a specific demand. It's such a ridiculous I'm sorry. And I remember we talked about it and I was like, wait, what? Because, I mean, now I know the story more, but like, it's just so absurd because you'd think like, what does he get out of that? Like, it's like, did his whole family also die by a Winchester rifle? And he just wants to throw you on this goose chase or.


But what you think is that like what he would get out of it is like keep coming back to see me and I'll tell you all the ways that you can, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, he could make money off it, but no. Instead, he's like to drive across the country and build a house and I'll never see you again.


It's just so odd to my family was just like, I don't have to have to see that woman again. And I'll know for the rest of her day she's going to suffer like, OK, that's fair. Maybe that's what he was going with satisfaction enough. Or maybe he's really good at his job and the ghosts are way too real.


Right. Maybe that's like literally what they want it. I guess. So some people doubt that this is the reason why some people think that this is just law and not a real reason why she built this house or why I was always under construction.


They think that her saying, oh, because I feel bad for all of the victims by my rifle, they think that's kind of a bunch of hooey because some historians are like if she felt that bad profiting off of their deaths, then why did she never, like, pull out on any of her investments or any of her stocks?


So I get it's like I get it. That's a fair argument. But then a lot of people also say that that's also not true. So there's kind of a who's to say what's what. But a lot of people try to dismiss this rumor. OK, but anyway, regardless, she moved to San Jose and she said that she moved there specifically because her sister was moving out there. But a lot of even though that's what is on official documents, people are like she didn't really like her sister.


So I think that might have just been her way of covering up that she was moving west at all, like, oh, I have I should move to a place where I know people to cover up. Why I'm really going.


Yeah, like, don't worry about it. I promise there's a normal reason for that.


And so there's a quote actually about her sister, Isabel, that says Isabel was her polar opposite, outspoken and spunky. When she was seventy four, she beat up a man on a trolley after a political dispute. I love that lady.


Sounds like Sarah went one way and this girl went the other way. It's not like Sarah was like the posh, educated socialite who, like, attended all the events and this girls just hanging out on the trolley, beating people up, which I kind of want to hang out with her more. Yeah, I like both of them. So in eighty four, Sarah bought a farmhouse which ends up becoming the Winchester mystery house. But at the time it was a simple eight bedroom house, you know.


Sure, sure, sure, sure, sure, sure. And started construction immediately. And this was in 1884. I was curious what else was out there in 1884, just to bring you back to the simpler time so it's easier to swallow. So here are some other things that happened in 1880 for the Washington Monument had been finished, evaporated milk and Kellogg's cereal had been patented.


So it was invented. It was in beta, though.


So like no one said. Right, right, right, right, right.


But it is fun to think like, oh, she could have been eating some corn flakes. And how weird is that?


Yeah, the hip new thing. The hip new thing. Also, the 40 hour work week was instated, which like don't get me fucking started.


Oh, God, what a horrible invention. And she was like, not for me bitch. Like I know, but for all the employees who are going to be building my stairs.


I guess she was like, that sounds terrible. And then my favorite part, because it's kind of a little connection to us. Is that an.


It was the first ever long distance call and it was from Boston and went to New York, so it wasn't too fun, but yeah, and then also another not fun fact, since the deaths when ever since Sarah moved into this house and that until the end of her days, she was always in a black dress. So a lot of people said she was just like constantly in mourning. So a lot of the people who say if they see a ghost, she's in a black dress.


So after buying the house, she originally had an architect and then she fired him immediately and started designing the house by herself. And I think once she was bored and it was like, I have all the money in the world to do whatever I want. But also a lot of people say that because her dad was in construction, she probably knew a little something and felt like the architect was holding her back from a really, like, weird looking house.


Yeah, he was probably like, I don't know why you want to build these stairs. And she's like, it doesn't matter why. Just going nowhere. Just do it.


Here's a million dollars. Do it in 1888. So only four years into her having the house, Sarah's niece, who apparently was nicknamed Daisy, her real name was Marion Mariotte, which like, OK, like you're bragging and you should calm down.


So her niece moved in and ended up staying with her for 15 years and became her assistant in the house. So probably helps her with a lot of the construction plans. Yeah, and some historians say that even though people say like or even though that the medium said construction can never stop, you have to keep building, keep building your building. Apparently, historians also like to try to dispute this and say she was known for regularly dismissing her workers for months at a time.


But then other historians have come back and been like, yeah, she was rotating the workers like nobody was saying on all the time. Sure, that makes sense. Can't work 24/7, right. You can work 40 hours, though, but so, yeah, a lot of people get weird about that statement, too. But I like to fly under the belief that it was she was just building the house non-stop. Yeah. I'm so paranoid about the spirits finding her in the house.


She decided to build essentially whatever the fuck she wanted and she started building some of the most bizarre things in the whole wide world and hopes that the House would be so complex that she would trick the ghosts into never finding her.


Yeah, the house originally was eight bedrooms and it was on six acres.


But by the time construction ended, when she passed away, the House itself was six acres.


Oh, my God. It had seven floors. It had at depending on the time, it had five to six hundred rooms that were built in different times up.


It has twenty thousand gallons of paint. It had ten thousand windows, 2000 doors, 52 skylights, 47 fireplaces, 40 bedrooms, 40 staircases, 13 bathrooms, six kitchens, three elevators, two basements, only two mirrors and one and one shower.


You'd think like with all that the two mirror like there be more mirrors to confuse everything, you know, like I just bring to the whole funhouse effect.


She'd clearly never been to a mirror maze because she was a real fucking weird guy that she'd be like, I want this whole room to just be a complete mess. I think that's a great idea.


So the two mirrors, apparently she thought that ghosts were actually you're right, because apparently she thought ghosts were afraid of their reflection. So then you think the whole place would be mirrors? Yes, I think that would make a whole lot of sense. I mean, as far as sense goes in the story, I think maybe she just couldn't look at herself.


She was like, what are you doing? She's like, well, I only have one shower, so it's hard for me to really take myself seriously. My favorite fun fact about the shower is that, I mean, everything was obviously custom made in this house, but the shower was made for her, so it would fit her exactly from the neck down so she wouldn't get water in her face. And it would she had one of those, like, really swanky showers that are still swanky where like the water shooting from different angles.


Yeah, but it all hit her exactly. Neck down. Oh, that's fancy.


But imagine being a guest in her house because she was four ten.


So like, it's your belly button down.


So you're like crouching in there. I'm sitting on the floor actually. So anyway, there I know I said there were thirteen bathrooms, but I'm also going to take this moment to have us really appreciate the number thirteen because Sara was obsessed with the number thirteen.


If she wasn't, then this is a really weird coincidence, at least because a lot of the House's features had to do with the number thirty. In the end, like a normal feature in a house, like things, even numbers, like I think staircases are usually 13 steps or something like that.


The only one I can think of, like lamps and things are usually, well, odd numbers. One of them, like chandeliers, usually come as a dozen or at least at that time they came as a dozen and she had to have like welders come in and install a third light bulb for her chandelier. So, like, so then she she must have been doing this on purpose. Right. I just, like, convinced myself I'm a lawyer.




OK, but I will say from the first episode, I remember being like, how could they say otherwise? And then you mentioned, like, some people think that once she died, people, her family or whoever went in there and added a bunch of stuff to make it seem weird, make it more attraction. Remember you mentioned that.


Yeah, it seems ridiculously excessive. It does. But then I think, like, if you died, I would for sure make a spectacle of it. If I could, I would make it look like the craziest person. I, I mean, like, you know, how they say like a true friend. Well, like when they find out you're dead, the first thing they'll do is like erase your browser history. I will erase yours and only put the weirdest shit.


Yeah. You will add to mine. I'll make it worse. Like you'll wish people saw your real one.


You'll think mine public and then at right I'll be my Instagram post. You'll be like, well, always miss her mind and it'll just be a picture of your it's like a screen recording of scrolling through all my shit. Yeah. Thanks a lot. So you're welcome in advance. Hopefully I go first so we don't have to do that. Although seriously, if I go first, I give you permission and honestly, my ghost would find it hysterical. If you made a post like that on Instagram, I think I would have a great time just saying.


OK, so anyway. Yeah, so the number thirteen. So there are a lot of features in this house that have to do with the number 13 and here are just some of them. The entrance hall was divided into thirteen sections. All of the stairs had thirteen steps, which I think is actually normal.


I got to go count my stairs. I have no clue.


Maybe not, maybe not the time. I just know like and the only reason I know that is my step mom used to work in construction. That was like the only fun fact I ever retained.


That is a fun fact. Let me see the stairs. Thirteen steps, windows had thirteen window panes. There were thirteen walls per room in the thirteenth bathroom. There were thirteen windows that each had thirteen pant panes to it and they each had thirteen candles also every banister had thirteen railings, the elevators had thirteen panels, the greenhouse had thirteen glass capoulas. It had there were thirteen holes in all of her drains. She had them custom drilled out. Oh God.


She had thirteen tiles on each ceiling, she had thirteen bulbs on each chandelier and the science room which is the thing she had thirteen hooks for the thirteen robes that she would wear for every thirteen sciences that she had with the ghosts. And when she died. This is the weirdest part. When she died she had thirteen sections to her will and she signed it 13 times.


This is just I mean, you can't say that this is a coincidence. You know, at the end, if she really signed it 13 times, then that makes me think her family didn't go out and change everything up because, like, she was already on to something, but also to add new window panes to everyone, like that's who.


So I have seen the house. And I think this is a collection of over time because there are some rooms that are just normal, like four walled rooms and things like that. But I think throughout construction, these were requests that had to do with thirteen and then maybe they got demolished and rebuilt into something else. But sure, that was at least a list of the times where she made things specifically. Thirteen. I see. So we don't really know why.


But there is really there's one really interesting theory, which I like to think was exactly why she did this, but it's who knows at all. It's just the theory I like to latch onto. So in some cultures, thirteen means of femininity and it corresponds to the think. It means femininity because it corresponds to how many lunar cycles, a.k.a. menstrual cycles, lunacy. Right. Lunatic women.


Yeah, well, she was doing a little lunacy in this house. The house itself was listen, I get it, Lady Little Lunner, but I like Allouni.


Wait a minute. Oh, lunatic. I already knew that.


OK, where are we going with this? Never mind. I already knew that information. But so they thought that it meant feminity because it had to do with you have thirteen cycles a year because twenty eight every twenty days. Oh, yeah, every twenty eight times 13 is like I think exactly three hundred sixty five or just off.


So they think that it means femininity and as the solar cycle masculinity, as it slowly takes over the lunar cycle, each year femininity becomes weaker. AK 13 becomes an unlucky number.


Makes sense.


So, like, as the as the year goes on in the solar cycle, I don't know enough about cycles, but apparently at some point the solar cycle equals masculinity. The lunar cycle equals femininity and masculinity starts taking over the lunar cycle.


I had no idea about any of this. So it's just like a fuck the patriarchy moment. And I like to think that she is just like claiming her femininity throughout this house, embracing at the unlucky A..


Yeah, she's like, I'll show you men. Here's all my femininity all over the walls.


She's like in 13 different robes. And they're like, OK, we get it. You are quite a lady. We got it. So anyway, back to this wild house. The room the front room of the house has two doors side by side, but one of them is shorter and they think it's because she was for ten. But that also makes no sense. Like, why would she make the bigger door then?


Yeah, that's weird. Unless she just has really tall friends over.


She's like, you can't use my door, you have to use this door. But I'm thinking of you. Here's another door that you can. There was a let's see, there was also a hidden room, which the only thing and there was an old Victorian couch. An antique doll. Yeah. I hate that part.


Love that part. I hate it. And here I'm going to just say some of the wild things that I have also personally seen in this house. And this is more or less verbatim from the first episode, but it's it's still rings true. So here are just some of the bizarre things in this house. There are trapdoors and false passageways. There are stairs that lead to the ceiling. There are stairs that lead to walls, just random walls. There are doors that open into walls.


There's windows in the middle of the room, just like standalone sills that you can, like, walk around 360. So there's no reason for it to be there. Oh, man, where was I? Oh, windows that would look out into absolutely nothing. Or would they would even like look out into like another part of the construction, like, like you would look out the window and there would be like a chimney right in front of you.


You could actually see outside, OK, there would be windows in front of the elevator shaft. So there's one window that's basically like a picture frame in the wall, in the wall. And it's just like a clear instead of wall. It's clear. And you can see like the back side of. I know. That's cool.


Yeah, I thought that was actually kind of dope, just like me. There's one of my favorites is a skylight and the floor. There are skylights between different floors. Some of the posts in this house are upside down and some of them just jut out in the middle of the floor for no reason at all. There's just like random posts that will stick out sideways from a wall. Seems like such a tripping hazard.


I would injure myself every day if I lived here. It was absolutely a fire hazard.


This place, let's see, there were also chimneys that were so tall that they would go through four floors and there were also chimneys that were so short that you could see between the chimney and the ceiling like it never got completed. So it was like basically rendered useless. Yeah. And there was I think there was one chimney that goes like up through a bunch of floors. And then when you get to the top floor to see the chimney continue, it doesn't actually hit a ceiling.


So it's like it's just this aruz and like the ultimate fire hazard, like a literal fire.


Someone on like floor one is going to be like, why is the smoke coming into this room? Thank God.


There's also a room that has this is actually the science room. It has one entrance, but three exits. So you can walk in through one door. But two of the doors that you can leave out of don't have handles on the other side.


So if you walk into the next space and then close the door behind you, there's no reopening it to get back in. And one of those rooms brings you into the closet of another room.


So it's almost like a Nania situation. Yeah. Let's talk about a magic trick, though. You could just, like, show up in a closet.


That's pretty cool for a science room especially. You could do all sorts of fun tricks. That's actually pretty genius.


Yeah. And then my personal favorites. Oh, also there are there's a cabinet door that opens to a hive of thirty other rooms. So like, oh, you just open a cabinet and then you're like in a whole other world. And my personal favorites, some I just mentioned, but I just want to shout them out again the door to nowhere where it's like on the second or third floor and you open it and they don't let people do this because you would die.


But like if you opened it at. Literally leads to it's the side of the House that you're not and you would just fall out. That's so dangerous. There's also staircases to nowhere. There's a staircase that goes up to the ceiling, which I mentioned. But I remember when I did the tour myself, you can climb up the stairs and like you slowly have to hunch until, like, your ceiling is on you.


So there are also cupboards. I remember taking pictures of this because I was just so fucking floored. There are cupboards that make no sense. There's like just one tall cupboard in the middle of the room, like it's not attached. It's not like cabinets. It's just basically a box with a door that you can open. But it's a cupboard that only is half an inch deep.


So, like, you can't put anything in there. It's just basically a solid block in your way.


She just had all this built like she's just like anything that she thought of. She just she's like, maybe the ghost will think I'm hiding in this cabinet.


Like, what? And then there's a wall. Yeah, I get it. There was also another cupboard that opened into the other side of the house. So like almost like broke through the wall. And so if you opened if you opened the cabinet from one side, you would then look into like the other half the hole.


So basically what I'm saying is like, I want to get married in this place and say, like, this sounds like something we would want to build as our future.


Talk about an event space. Yeah. Yeah.


Anyway, so poster upside down. The chimneys were installed but like weren't functional. There were switchback chairs which were. So if you ever look it up, it looks really like these really winding, narrow stairs. So you have to do like a bunch of essentially U turns to like get up these stairs. So there's like seven basically U turns on the staircase. It's one hundred feet long, but it only it only brings you up nine feet to the second.


Oh my God. No, that's awful. So it's just this really long snaking staircase for no reason just to get you like basically nowhere. Oh no. And that it's because there were like 40 plus steps on this thing and they were two inches low. Two inches tall. No, no, no, no. So it was basically like you were doing an incline the whole time. But these were not the original steps. Those steps were replaced with these two inch ones called Easy Riders, which Sarah Winchester started putting throughout the entire house as she got older because she had really bad arthritis.


And so it was making it was a bunch of very tiny steps versus a short amount of tall steps. Got it. That way she could still walk around the house.


She's like, I still want to wind through a hundred feet of this, but I just want easier steps.


I'll take my afternoon on a stroll up the stairs.


And then there was also the sprinkler system in this house ran seven miles throughout the house. It was that windy. Well, she had a garden room with hoses and faucets in the cabinet. So you didn't see them when they weren't being used. And the wooden floors in the greenhouse are in this garden were made of pallets so you could lift them up and you could spray all of the flowers and then the water would drip out onto just cement. And the floor was so smart and the floor was slanted.


So all of the water would drain off and you could just put the wood pallets back down.


That is so smart. She was like, I mean, for a crazy person, she was she's also a genius. Yeah, I love this woman. She also did that for all of her, for all of her countertops for like the kitchen and stuff. She made them slightly slanted. So with like divots and them so water would drip out into the sink instead of like so smart, like sit on the counter. There was also the halls of fire.


Oh, well, OK.


I take back what I just said and hold on to it for a minute until I hear what you're about to say. It actually is also genius. So it's actually this hall is actually a series of little rooms, but they're all right next to each other and they're very small. And it's called the Hall of Fires because it has seven sources of heat. It had four fireplaces and three vents. And so the room would get really, really hot and she would go into this room and she had arthritis and she would just sit there.


All of her joints would loose. That's nice. Comforting actually isn't a bad idea. I love that.


She's like, this is my nice cozy. I'm going to call it the Hall of Fire.


This is where I feel my my most sane. That's like how I built this nice little or decorate the studio and just put skulls all over the wall. I'm like, this is my happy place.


Hey man. Yeah. We're no different. No, we're not. So the sinks and everything was obviously super expensive. Everything was imported and hand painted from like Italy and Vienna and Japan and all that. She actually had one room called the twenty five thousand dollar room, because when she died, that room alone was valued at twenty five grand, which in today's world is almost four hundred grand.


Whoa, whoa. There was also the South Conservatory, which is next to well I don't wanna confuse anyone. There was the South Conservatory and it's the space with the most windows. I think this is the coolest room. When I go, it's just like everything. It's like one hundred fifty plus panes of glass. One of them happens to be in the floor and it's the famous skylight in the floor, so you can actually look down into other floors.


Cool. And also near this place with the most windows in the house was the most expensive window. It's called the most expensive window, which like says something. If everything else in the house is so wildly expensive, it was made of all these really tiny, tiny crystals. They acted like prisms when the sun hit it in, the whole room would become Rambo's cool.


But she fucked up structurally twice because she put this window on the north side of the house where the sun never shined. My gosh.


Well, that seems like a pretty basic fuckup. Well, here's the next one that's even more basic. She then where the sun would have come in from, she added a whole wing of rooms. So like, no sun is ever coming through this thing. That's depressing. OK, so no rainbows for you.


It feels homophobic, but that's OK.


So then the the ballroom alone cost nine thousand dollars, which was three times the amount of the average house back then. Oh God. But what's really cool about it is the entire place is I mean. So wildly intricate and completely made of wood, but barely any nails were used in the construction, all of it was wood and glue because apparently it's better for the acoustics because that's where she would play her organ and her instruments.


Wow, that's weird. Also, what's weird that people the last time I went on the tour, they were like, we don't know what this fucking means, but we like to point it out. There is stained glass windows in the ballroom with an inscription on it and it says Wide unclasp the tables of their thoughts. These same thoughts, people, this little world. What, she was an alien, I don't know who she was, a black child, goose.


Yeah, that is like can I have ketchup with my apple also? Whatever you just said, can you send me that later? I would. I like to look at it and drink wine and think about it.


Just drink too much and then maybe I'll crack the code. I might. We have to call Nicholas Cage. Actually he might figure it out. So once they're in my 20, once the house had twenty six rooms from its previous eight railcars. Double thirteen, by the way.


Holy shit.


Just saying who also saying the Sandström had one entrance and three exits. Oh I don't know. Thirteens just in my brain. Wait it's because you're drinking. Keep going way down.


Yeah. It's this boxed wine. I can't believe I haven't had it in months. It's all coming back.


So once the once the house had twenty six rooms, rail cars actually had made a stop that was closer to our house, which meant more imported furnishings and materials could come in. So the house started growing even faster than it was with the first twenty six rooms. Oh boy. And the house. By the time that she died the house was being promoted or marketed as the house with one hundred forty eight rooms. But every time they would do a room count, people would get a different number and eventually they would just like fuck it.


And so it's widely just accepted that the number is probably one hundred sixty.


Oh. So they just kind of averaged it out. They were like, I guess it's around one sixty. So Sarah also had to conservatory's built with these really wild watering systems and a garden and she which I already explained. Sorry, I think I just put that twice also in her science room. She was the only one allowed in that room and she always held the only key for it. Oh, creepy. Yeah. And the weird because it has so many exits and stuff like like if it's only her I don't know.


Yeah. Like a strange sometimes she just wanted to be in the closet. Now that feels homophobic. Wait a minute.


So we figured oh my God, you can't leave the closet. Oh my God. A door only opens one way. Metaphore so deep. So, so fun fact about the science room because I always thought it was like a really spooky, eerie looking room. It's actually a really pretty white and green color. Oh. So it's not actually like dark and terrifying. I thought it looked kind of like this setup here.


I thought it was talking about robes and stuff. It sounds very, very ominous. Like Freemasonry. Yeah, yeah. But no, it's just a white and green room. It's got those three doors.


But it does mean I'm literally in a white and green room and you're in a creepy dark room, damage playing both sides of this thing here.


It's like it's like she knew the weird thing about this room.


The other weird thing about this room excuse me, that there are some windows in there and only two of the sets of windows have spiked bars on them. Oh, but the other windows are fine. I don't understand.


I mean, I guess this goes back to her believing these ghosts are coming for her like she was probably like trapping them or something.


She was like, I don't know if you hate glass or iron more, but like, here's some of both. I don't know if you can go through closets. We'll try everything. Maybe maybe you need to be in the closet. Yeah, it's I never thought about that. If that's the if only she was allowed in there, then why it's just so odd.


All these different exits. That's weird.


So some of the this is where people think like people start asking, well, how was she coming up with these like construction? Like ideas like these real bizarre thoughts. Yeah, so she I guess there's a few theories to like how she came up with these construction thoughts, but a lot of them are based around that.


The ghost suggested them to her, which is weird to me because I feel like either she was coming up with them to keep spirits out. Right. Or because if they were suggesting them, then why were you taking the advice? If you were trying to hide, if you're trying to, maybe she was like, you know, double blinding them or something, like getting the information and then altering it in a way they like was different than what they were suggesting.


But there's also a really interesting theory from one tour guide who says that they there were good spirits helping her keep bad spirits away. But these good spirits, although they were trying to be really helpful because they were on a different realm, they really don't have a proper understanding of our physical world. And so they didn't really know what they were. They didn't realize that, like the wall can't go to nowhere. It has to go somewhere because in a ghost, it's like, well, if the stairs lead to nothing, I'll just walk through the wall.


It doesn't matter.


So, like, they were not thinking. They're like the ghosts are the world's worst architects is right. I get it. But it was really like a five year old playing Sims for the first time of like that makes sense there and that makes sense there. And you should do this.


And she was just listening, so. Oh, I love that idea. I kind of love it, too.


It's really adorable that they're trying to help, but they're so bad at it.


They're like, wait, you can't walk through this wall. Yeah. What do you mean this isn't useful? That's fun. Or I mean, maybe she was trying to appease the ghosts. Like she's like, OK, what if I build whatever you want.


Right. Maybe I don't know who's to say. Maybe the ghosts. Not me but but so yes. That's it's one of those theories in some way. So Sarah would have seances and talk to all these ghosts about construction ideas. And then the next morning she would come to the foreman each morning would have a completely different task for them. So they were not knowing if they were even halfway through one thing, she would just cancel and be like, never mind, I've decided I want this.


Here are the guys. I know she was paying them, but like that just must be so infuriating where you're like I just put, like, so much sweat and energy into this project and now you're like, take it all down.


I imagine being a construction worker, like, I don't know, I'm in the world of entertainment, but I like to think they'd want to build a portfolio of what they're capable of. And yeah, you're just like never can build your resume because you're like constantly destroying things before it's finished.


Well, you know what I remember in the first episode, I think you commented like, oh, this sounds like our jobs in entertainment.


Yes. Truly, these studios being like, oh, 12 hours, 12 to 14 hour days where they're like, do this for six hours. Never mind. I hate it. You did it all wrong. Throw it away and start over like that's so true. I love that in today's world where I'm not, like, thinking about, like, movie stuff all the time. I didn't think about that. But at the time when I was I guarantee you, when I said that it was because earlier that day had been like, I hate everything you've done, start over.


It was like so spot on.


That was probably the day I was scraping lettuce off the floor after, like, buying lettuce for someone who decided they didn't want lettuce.


I don't think you've ever actually told that story on the show. But wow, you really have the quintessential Hollywood intern. If I'm giving scissor, I have to say it was kale, not lettuce. Yeah, I want to be clear that it was kale.


Please tell that story real quick because right now. Yeah, OK.


Two hundred episode special. There is this producer who, by the way, I've heard through the grapevine not saying names that he has fallen from grace, let's just put it that way.


Yeah. So I was at a job and it was horrible and it was 12 to 14 hour days and I was making like minimum wage, but like almost illegally. Like, they stop paying you at a certain number of hours.


It's always almost illegal. Yeah. Yeah, right. It is almost technically legal.


There was no H.R. all that good stuff. And I would have to go get lunch for for the producers. And I went and got lunch for this one guy who was very specific about his diet and he wanted extra lettuce in his salad, which I was like, I don't know what that means. But he wanted extra lettuce in his kale salad. So I was like, OK, so I went and got him extra lettuce in his kale salad.


I did everything the way that it was written and I brought it to him and he literally. He looked at me and I had a master's degree, I want to be clear, like we were grownups, like we were like you were like twenty four and he just looks at me and he fucking dumps it on the floor and he's just like.


I don't even know at that point what he said, because I think I just blacked it out, but it was something like, are you going to blow up or something? Yeah, yeah. There was so much lettuce in it. And I was like, oh, I thought you wanted extra lettuce. And he was like, oh, does it look like I want to eat like an entire bowl of lettuce? And I was like, I mean, kind of, but OK.


So I was like, and then he literally just stares at me and I stare at him and he goes, Are you going to pick that up?


And I was like, oh. And so he just like walked around it, left the room and I spent the afternoon because it was fucking he walked on top of it. And so now this kale was just like smooshed into the ground underneath the refrigerator. I had to, like, get up. And they didn't have any like I was like, is there something I can use? And someone's like, there's plastic knives in the drawer. So it's a plastic knife and just like, scrape the fucking kale off the floor.


I was like, this is what I'm getting paid for. But basically I was losing money with gas.


It was an hour and 40 minute drive one way and I had to drop go off at daycare. I was losing money every day. And I'm like, what a waste of my life this is.


It really is like I mean, I've had I haven't had that exact experience, but I've had some pretty darn close friends. Similar ones. Yeah. And yeah. But they're what you see on TV about like interns just having the worst life is very true.


It's true. And I remember my sources tell that story and Rene's like I always remember the time you texted me that you were eating lunch and I was like, oh, where. Like at a cool L.A. restaurant. And you were like, oh, no, I'm in the parking lot. And what do you meet in the parking lot? And I was like, well, they told me I had to sit in the parking lot today. And she was like, why?


And I was like, I have to watch out for, like, security concerns. And she was like, well, what are you sitting on? And I was like, the floor, the ground. And she was like, they didn't give you a chair. And I was like, no, the children stars needed the chairs so they didn't have any left. So I was just sitting in the fucking dirt eating myself. It was like the saddest thing that fucking worse.


I also there was one there was one movie I worked on and this was when I before I got the job at my house and I was working like on set. And the child actor fucking hated me.


The child actors. Oh my God fucking hated me. And because, like, everyone's terrified of upsetting the kids because like you only have so much to the thing you have some only have so much time legally to work with children. Yeah. Whatever the kid says you fucking do. And so that kid fucking hated me and every time he was on set the producers would be like, don't even bother coming to set.


And I'm like, but I'm needed on. Like my my job was to hand him the props that he needed, like I needed to literally be there so he could throw his truck or whatever in the fucking movie.


I had to give him the truck and they were like, don't even bother. And I was like, legally, I'm the only one who can do this.


So we need to have a child actor episode because I definitely think we could share stories we haven't shared before.


Oh, what a mess. Anyway, anyway, back to this nightmare. So yeah. So she would wake up every day and go to the forum and be like, I need this done immediately. So welcome to Hollywood Guy.


So anyway and so and she would just randomly I mean literally it was like I said this in the first episode too, but it was like, oh, I want the walls red today. And then like the next day she'd be like, never mind, paint everything blue.


I mean, it's literally L.A., I can't imagine, but also to confuse the ghosts even more. She started sleeping in different rooms every night, which like at least she's using every square. That's true of the of this place. True.


She imagine being forty bedrooms and not using them. No I can't. Well I can't imagine the first half of that's the first part.


Yeah. So in nineteen eighty six there was actually a really terrible earthquake. It reached eight point three on the Richter scale and it's severely damaged the house. It also trapped Sarah and one of the rooms. Oh and the I guess the structure of the wall kind of leaned into the door so it pinched the door shut and she couldn't get out. I mean what did she think was going to happen again?


Fire with all these buildings? Yeah, something was going to happen. And her staff ended up using a crowbar to pry the door open. And you can still actually see the mark from where the crowbar got the door.


No way. Super creepy.


Oh, cool. But after this earthquake, a lot of the fourth floor had to be removed. So now the Winchester mystery house is shorter than it used to be. Still pretty fucking big, though, don't worry. And she basically she took this as a sign this earthquake in the house being damaged. She took it as a sign that the spirits thought she was spending too much time decorating versus mourning and grieving the spirits. Oh, dear.


So she told the builders to seal up that whole section of the house. And actually, years, years later, they found a bunch of hidden rooms where she had asked them to seal it up and they were like halfway through construction.


So they're like kind of like the bones of the house, which is so creepy.


She said, seal up the section of the house and she ended up moving thirty minutes away. So she didn't stay in the house any more, but she would still visit literally. Ali, with the most ridiculous plans, oh, so she was still there all the time, she didn't stay there anymore, but fun fact. She also had a houseboat on the San Francisco Bay and people called it Sarah's Ark, like Noah's Ark. I love that because apparently on top of being paranoid about ghosts, she had a regular fear of like a Noah's Ark sized flood coming.


So she had a houseboat and she needed to see a therapist.


She did, ironically, to the boat caught on fire and was just, no, stop it.


So she lived in the second home for 16 years, but she still literally every single day for 16 years, came back and she would make wild requests later in life. When she was suffering from arthritis, she started most of her requests were just making the stairs shorter so she could still walk around in it. But in nineteen twenty two, she was eighty three years old. She had a science and went back to bed. And that night she died in her sleep from heart failure.


And she's buried in New Haven, Connecticut with her family.


The construction ended immediately like but like I remember this being my biggest takeaway from the tour that I went on, that literally when the workers heard that she died, they just walked away.


Like there are still nails that are half nailed in because they were like, oh, she's dead.


I can finally stop what they were like, not even finishing this hammer. I don't even care anymore. So they just walked away.


Weirdly, there is weirdly, there's this like moon shaped hedge that actually points directly to the room where she died. And so they've always left that hedge alone. And so they maintain that really well. And people say now there's like a lot of spiritual activity there where if you're standing there and you look up at the window, sometimes people see her. When she did die, the house, they valued the house officially as it was at five million dollars at the time or seventy one million dollars today.


Wow. Yikes. Holy shit. When she died, her bank account obviously had depleted at least a little. It would think so. Yeah.


And some people think that she actually hid her fortune in a safe so her family wouldn't try to come after her money. But her relatives, one of the things that I think I was trying to mention in the first episode, but probably hadn't gotten this far in the research, her relatives did actually come to the house.


So maybe that's where I thought that they were trying to alter things or the or maybe that's where the stories come from, of, well, the relatives were there. They could have fucked around with the house. But realistically, if they were there purely for the will and were breaking down walls trying to, like, find safes in the walls like they were trying to, and they found some of the safes, one of the spaces in the ballroom.


And while this should be a movie, all of it should be a movie. It actually is a movie. We'll talk about that in a second.


OK, so they found one of the safes in her and the ballroom, and she only had a few things in there that were like newspaper clippings and shit. But the main things that she had in there, which are noteworthy is she had locks of hair that were her father and her daughters and their and their obituaries. So like she died. So that's precious. But then the weird one is that with it was a bunch of wool underwear.


Oh, I don't know why that was like whose was it? I don't know. Why was that what she felt she must keep.


I hope it was clean. I hope so too. So up until her death, the house had eighteen servants, thirteen carpenters, eight to ten gardeners, two chauffeurs, and they were all very loyal to Sarah. So they Sarah spent a lot of money to make sure that they had like perfect, great amenities. I mean, I've I've done the I've seen the scene like what they're they're like servants quarters were, which usually I'm like, yikes, what a fright.


Yeah. But like, wow, I wish I lived in that fucking space. Like it was they had they had offices, they had these big ass rooms. They had she had custom made specific like machinery and equipment so that their chores would be easier than the average person. Like she figured out what all the issues were with, like how laundry was done at the time and how cooking was done at the time. And so she made all of these basically inventions so that, wow, all of the hard parts of those jobs would be easier for the servants.


And she paid everyone double the average rate, including the construction workers. Wow.


So they were very loyal to her. Some people could say, of course, she was being nice. She needed them to, like, help her keep the spirits away. And of course, they were loyal because she was paying them double the right and treating her, treating them so well.


Right. I mean, at least there's that. But a lot of people think just throughout the years they just, like all, really loved each other. And she treated them like family. Right. And so the staff. So loyal that for the whole time they worked there, they never spoke to any journalists about her behaviors or her choices. Wow. They were just like, we love Sarah Winchester. Like we're not saying anything. So after her death, all the furniture was removed.


It took eight truckloads a day every day for six and a half weeks, which was almost 400 truckloads. And Mover's told the press that they got lost. And there are so many times. So it like made it even longer to actually get everything out of the house.


Wow. Because they were getting on stairs thinking it led to downstairs, but it led to upstairs.


And then her niece inherited three thousand dollars or so. Yeah. Three thousand dollars and all of Sarah's personal possessions. But she also got a cushy two million dollar trust fund which in today's world is thirty one million. Wow. The house was bought and turned into an attraction and a landmark to the public. After only five months of Sarah being dead, it was immediately in five months now, like they the family decided immediately, like we know what we're doing with this.


And they actually I think they sold it to a tour company.


Fun fact.


The House was a major inspiration for the haunted house, right, in Disneyland. Oh, another fun fact. One of the one of the first people to see the place when it became an attraction was Robert Ripley of Ripley's Believe It or Not. Oh, my God.


And another fun fact is so it's called the Winchester Mystery House, but guess who coined it that. I don't know, it's not you and it's not me. It's Whodini, Whodini, why? So he was also in nineteen twenty four, he was one of I guess, you know, if I can sense twenty twenty, he's seen as one of the first people to visit the house and he is so cool.


The Winchester Mystery House.


Oh thank God. I caught on to what you were saying to. I was like I'm going to jail idiot. I'm going to look real stupid in a second.


I think people if you go back on YouTube you can see fear in my eyes building. I was like, oh, my God.


So this house has been dubbed by a lot of people, USA Today Time Travel Channel, a bunch of them. It's been dubbed as one of the top ten most haunted houses in the country. There are no official documents of any paranormal experiences for Sarah. But I mean, she had a fucking science room. I'm going to guess. Also, she literally was hiding from ghosts and like taking their blueprint advice. Exactly. They were they were her architects.


So I'm going to say she did have some paranormal experiences, safe to say. Like, you don't just go out and get 13 robes for no reason.


No. I can certainly say with confidence you don't just go out by 13, 12, maybe 13, not a baker's dozen.


Come on. So people who were who people who work there do report frequent paranormal activity, including temporary blindness. Yikes. Oh, God, I remember that. Can you imagine being blind in that fucking house? Like, temporarily. Good luck. Yes, temporarily. Like you imagine like losing your vision and you're like like halfway up the stairs to nowhere. Yeah. Imagine if all of a sudden I couldn't see and then I went, Christine, help me out of this house and you're the worst person with directions.


So you know me. I would go I say, walk out this door and then you'd walk out of the third floor onto the onto the ground. And as I as I fall to my death, I would hear your echoing voice go in that direction.


Your eyesight would come back halfway down and you would just see me going, oh, would you just see the impact? No. Yeah. So temporary blindness or if you're, Christine, like just constant loss of life. Welcome to my life.


And then I see Chill's people feel handprints on or they see handprints on their arms. They also feel hand stroking them and like rubbing them back. Sometimes people hear organ music even though the organ that is in the house does not work. If you press the buttons, it will play. Even neighbors hear the organ playing. Apparently people see moving lights. They see red flashes in her room. People hear doorsteps, thumping voices and windows, apparently bangs so hard that they've shattered.


Oh, gosh. People have also seen a, quote, bushy haired woman standing out on one of the windows on the second floor from the bushy haired woman.


Is I her? I guess I never heard about her hair.


I heard about other people. Also see a small woman dressed in black near the picnic gardens and one worker while he was on a ladder. He said that he almost fell and he felt a hand pushing back up.


Wow. Well, that's nice, which is precious. And it also kind of confirms for me, like her love for her workers. Yeah, exactly.


Or she's like, I'm the only ghost here now.


I don't know what you die on my property. Not here. Not now.


So one of the guides also I mean, every guide there are most of the guides there apparently have some sort of experience, but one guy in particular, so that he went into the room where Sara was trapped during the earthquake and he heard a very loud sigh in the hallway and saw something glide around the corner and heard another sigh, but never found anyone. Arguably, though, like you could hide in a lot of places on that house.


So one of the Winchester mystery houses like own PR coordinators said that when he was taking pictures, he found a lot of weird stuff in them. Apparently on the Winchester Mystery House, Facebook, people post their own pictures, like trying to see if, like, can you see anything in my pictures? In nineteen seventy five, a paranormal investigator and reporters went into the science room and they had a science together. And this is a quote from the reporter who said that they were looking at someone else in the science room and saw their face, quote, age right in front of my eyes, her hair grade, and she formed deep crease lines in her forehead.


She experienced staggering pain and was unable to walk. And right before she passed out, she screamed, Help me, someone get me out of here. Oh, God. Yeah, it got dark real quick. Yeah, that's not good.


Employees also hear their names being called when they're closing up. Doors are always flying open. If you close it and then walk away and come back, it's open. People smell soup in the kitchen.


OK, I actually remember that for about the session that I was I remember I listen to that.


I went, wow, we really didn't make a big deal of that. But like in my mind, that's a big deal.


I like I'm like, why didn't we talk about that? More like what kind of soup? Like is what kind of soup was it? Her most favorite soup was? I think we were. Try to take ourselves so seriously that we were like, OK, we got to we got to stick to the subject. Meanwhile, I'm sitting here, I'm like, soup sounds pretty good right now. They're good. So people also feel a hot spot where the stove used to be installed.


I love that.


I think that's super cool.


Yeah, it's usually cold spots, so I feel like it's easy to explain is like a breeze or whatever, but a hot spot is like a stranger to me.


I would be interested to stand in that spot and see if I also got a cold spot because that's like a real fluctuation of temperature there, like a ghost walking into the place where the oven was.


Yeah, like I'll stand here now. I feel hot. And then it goes to to tornadoes.


Cold. Isn't that how tornadoes form?


Oh, is it your mind when I think I know tornadoes have like hailstones.


I'm not a meteorologist if you're not about me. Oh, I know. We're still learning things about each other, still learning the guns.


And I don't know anything about whether or directions.


I'm also a clown, by the way. I don't know if I told you that yet, but, oh, there's that fun fact when we get to five episodes and you'll know. So some of the tours have actually found like the chandelier in each of the rooms swinging right when they're coming in. It's almost like someone was greeting them into each room or like beating them to it. Like, I like to think the spirits were like, hurry up.


Like I'm already in here. Hello. Yeah. So a lot of people will end up seeing chandelier swinging as they're going through on the tour. And one of the guard dogs, which precious thing, guard dogs.


He gets scared going down one of the hallways and he won't go down unless the guards shine a flashlight for him. Oh, buddy. He's very brave everywhere else that he's a good boy. What a good boy. One investigator said that the room felt weird, like I had a really weird vibe. So he tried to listen for any weird sounds and start hearing what sounded like screws being unscrewed, like hearing them like come out of the wall. And he was like, that's weird.


But he like ignored it. And a couple minutes later, three screws fell from the ceiling.


Oh, God. With a swinging chandelier. That seems like a bad combination.


It sounds like final destination. Wait a minute. This is a ghost. Was seen and later identified as one of the servants who used to fix the fireplace. Apparently, he's seen in the ballroom a lot, trying to fix the fireplace now. And people just like the ghost worker. But imagine that's eternity for you.


You just never fix the fireplace fixing a fireplace that probably also never worked to begin with because it isn't a work that goes to the floor.


Three, because it goes to the elevator, stupid. So the bell tower where Sarah would call the servants and people still hear it ring at midnight and at two a.m., which apparently those were the two times when she would ring the bell to release spirits from her science room, like, OK, that was like part of her ritual where she would like close out. She would ring the bell. It's like say goodbye to the spirits, OK? And so now at the same time that she to do that, people hear the bell ring and the two thousands, they started a behind the scenes tour.


So they were opening up the basement and other places that the normal tour didn't actually go. So this meant a lot of the staff had to stay extra hours and clean out all the spaces that they were going to be using and organize it. And so they hired on extra maintenance just to, like, get it done faster. And everyone was noticing this one guy and he was in like these white coveralls. And he a lot of times was with a wheelbarrow and nobody knew who he was.


The normal staff was like, who is this guy? The maintenance supervisor was like, we didn't hire him. I have no idea who this guy is. We thought he was with you. And they just kept seeing this guy around until they got to the basement, started clearing it out, and then they found this portrait of him from Sarah Winchester's time.


And and so now that picture hangs in the basement.


So that's pretty terrifying.


Did he just want a photo of himself hung up on the wall? Now he's like, OK, I'll leave you in peace now. So thank you for hanging. My my let me have my insta moment.


Thank you. Thank you. I catch you on tick tock in twenty sixteen.


So the in twenty actually in twenty sixteen he was on tick tock.


Oh my God. Oh my God. Also a previously undiscovered attic space was found. That's pretty terrifying. I don't like that. And in twenty eighteen Vanity Fair said that there have been twelve million visitors since it opened and also in twenty eighteen the movie Winchester was released starring Helen Mirren. Right, 14 percent on Rotten Tomatoes. Wolf.




I also saw a horror movie that's but I did go see it in theaters with Alison and I remember being like, yikes, this.


I remember everybody tagging us in that on Twitter. I was also disappointed in that. First of all, like I wanted something a little more accurate with like all the like the craziness to it. Like with this story I'm telling right now, that could be a great movie. A great film. Yeah. And instead, it was just one it was just Helen Mirren running away from invisible things, so. And I'm like with Helen Mirren, really, like, come on, I know, like someone I respect to, it's like, what a shame.


So in twenty nineteen, the Winchester Mystery House, actually, this is one of my favorite spookier ones. They hired an architectural historian to research who made the stained glass windows because they had never figured it out.


And this guy was like, I'm not really sure. But after my research, I think it was this company called the Pacific American Decorative Company. I'm not sure, but I think that's where my research is implying, OK, and they're like, all right.


Well, you know, I wish we had some concrete evidence, but whatever. The next day after they were told that the very next day a restorer uncovered in the house a perfectly preserved envelope that was hidden inside a wall for one hundred twenty five years. And it was addressed to Mrs. s.L. Winchester, and it had the logo Pacific American Decorative Company. So it was the company that he had just talked about and confirmed that they made the windows.


Oh, my God, that's super bananas.


I'm just like that stuff fascinates me. Holy shit. Can you imagine finding something? I know my favorite always talks about this, but like finding shit in walls is so fascinating. Or like lightning preserved like documents. Oh, my God.


I'm just mad. It hasn't happened to me yet, but maybe I don't want to, but maybe I do. I don't know what I want.


I've stuffed enough random shit into like neutral posts and walls and vents. When I was little in different houses I lived in that eventually someone will find it and be like, this is worthless. But to me, I thought it was OK to you.


It might have just it might just be like a five year old left something on the wall. But like, if I found anything in a wall, it was true. Already decide the creepiest fucking story behind it. That's true.


I wrote weird stories and put them in the new post of one of our old houses. And I'm like waiting for someone. Oh, my destruction. And it's like literally me as an eight year old writing and drawing pictures. So, yeah, it's probably pretty fucking creepy.


You know, what's funny is I just I've seen it before, but it just resurfaced. There was this like Tumblr post back in the day. I love it. And it was saying, like, isn't it wild that like for years, like decades, we had scientists trying to, like, figure out hieroglyphics and like figure out like what these like really like cryptic phrases can mean. And so we could, like, actually translate it finally. And then they found out after they were able to translate some of the hieroglyphics that they were just like us people had like just like the word penis are like like it's like these were like sacred texts that people like wrap their beliefs around.


And it was like, I like Christine was here, like it was like Harvard scientist. Yeah. Well, there was my brother and I did a bit.


She said he it on on Italian historic sites. We did Pompei and the earliest it was like somebody wrote an article about the earliest basically like Yelp reviews in history, and it was like back in Pompeii before the volcano hit.


So it's preserved and it was like old etchings that said, like, this innkeeper gave me like shitty soup. And here, like one star, basically, and he overcharged me, even though my friend Pompeii's, like, didn't get over or whatever.


And they found out all these, like resume money sketched into rock.


It's fascinating anyway. So, yeah. And then one of them literally said, I have a big penis.


Yeah. So I mean, yeah. So funny. It's like, OK, so we are cavemen. Got it. We haven't changed. Yeah. We had evolved.


Not even a little bit. OK, I'm, I'm wrapping up here. I just wanted to say that this place is on the National Register of Historic Places and a San Jose is a San Jose landmark, the gift shop. It looks like an old timey attraction on its own. They've got like an old like a twenty five cent psychic where it's like one of those automated wizards I like.


I love those tells you if you're cool or not.


And then I don't need twenty five cents. I know the answer.


And they have like a nineteen sixteen movie box for you to like look in and see a Charlie Chaplin video playing.


Oh they sell a bunch of products. I remember going into the gift shop alone before I actually went on the tour and I was like This is fucking noodles. And then and here's my favorite update as of twenty twenty due to covid. So Winchester Mystery House usually has a shitload of tours, like they have a garden tour, they have a normal tour, they have an even longer extended normal tour. They have like an A behind the scenes tour. They have a flashlight tour on how I mean I think they geosciences or something.


But obviously they're not making any money right now because of covid. So Winchester Mystery House has done quite a charitable thing here, a charitable like to me only like play. They have built out an entire virtual tour. On the website for a very, very reasonable price, a reasonable price of like ten bucks, really. So you can do the entire tour. Also, one of the things I did, you can become like a Winchester member, which I did online.


And I think you get access to this all the time. But it's a not just like a virtual like a virtual documentary that's like forty five minutes long, where it teaches you all about Sarah Winchester and they have a 360 virtual tour where like you can literally click through it and go through all the rooms and oh cool. I feel like they don't realize how good of an idea that is because on the normal tour you only get to see a chunk of the house.


But this thing for ten bucks, you can see you can see every room that's even off limits. Wow. So it's really, really cool. And through it, there are like little dots for you to like, click on and it'll play. There was one that played like a haunted video like like there was like a chandelier. And when you clicked on it, there was an actual, like embedded YouTube video of someone, Google, someone who went on the tour.


And you can see the chandelier swinging like crazy by it.


So that's cool. So it was also its own little haunted tour because you got like little clips like that. So I highly suggest it.


I am actually going to go home and redo the tour again because I'm trying I'm trying to memorize the whole layout so I can be like, I know that house like it's know been there, done that.


I want to go with you. We've never been together. I would love to go with you. I would love when we went to San Jose, which was Lemann's birthday birthplace, also we were there for so like such a brief amount of time. We didn't get to go, but I would love to go.


It was to this day, it's one of my favorite attractions I've ever been to. And you're right that now that I'm mentioning the episode where I mentioned the house from San Jose and I mentioned lemons all in one episode and that first true.


Oh, my God in San Jose is Lemons birthplace. So so there's the 360 tour. You can see, surprisingly, a lot of the house. Also, you can see that there's a lot of things in there that have like this, like old timey spider web design on it, which is pretty interesting in theory, because, like, I looked up the meaning of a spider web or spiders in general and apparently, quote, spiders embody women, the creative force and weaving the designs of life and fate.


Spider bestows the power to work magic over people and things by weaving it gains a certain amount of control, which sounds very much like exactly what she was trying to do.


I just got like intense goose cam. That is so on point.


So this is this also I miss Skylar. Shout out to Skylar and Deb.


The sky was like, thank God you're gone. OK, this is my last part. I couldn't I couldn't do this right without talking about Zebb. So I knew it. I knew it. There isn't too much to go off of here, but I still want to mention it because he's as ridiculous as ever. So he introduces, by the way, the episode, his episode, the Winchester House. He introduces the house while holding a rifle and then he shoots at the cat.


Sorry. Well, somehow that took me by surprise. I for whatever reason, I was not expecting that he shoots at the camera and like, obviously it's like it's like a dummy ballistic. But he shot it like goes off the. But also you're not ever supposed to fucking point even an unloaded gun.


Maybe it was Aaron behind the camera. That's the only thing that must have been in.


There are several shots where he is like pointing a gun at the camp. Oh, God, there's one in the middle. There's like a barrel shot of all three of them pointing a gun at the camera. Stop it. So a lot of the beginning parts of like there walk through is just shots of Zach being lost and just being like. But it's like almost like that douchy freshman, sophomore high schooler lost. He's like he's not lost, but he just wants the attention.


He's like he wants to make a scene.


He's like, wait, but you're over there. But I'm over here, but you're over there. It's like, yeah, Zach, it's a fucking maze like that. That's the point.


And then he is just like constantly blown away by this house. He says it's like being in Willy Wonka Chocolate Factory and then he likes the wallpaper.


No, that's not. He went to know he my God, he got a little too wonca with it. So he does my fair part because I think I have a feeling and if this is true, please, God write us and let us know if I'm telling the truth here. I'm pretty sure one of the workers, whoever was on this episode, she must be a listener of. And that's why we drink just her attitude. I just kind of get a vibe.


I was like she would listen to our podcast because she'd be a she'd be a friend. She'd be a friend. Like if I ever mentioned Zach Megabytes to her, she'd be like, let me if I can tell you about this guy. So the worker pokes fun at him for getting lost because he has to go to the bathroom so bad. And he's like and there's like. Can 13 bathrooms, but none of them work anymore and a fun fact in case you do go to this house, the actual bathroom is like outside because they don't want anyone accidentally going to the wrong bathroom.


So they have a totally separate bathroom on site. But he was like trying to, like, get into the bathrooms. But they all have, like, this glass panel on them. So you can see in to the bathroom he's like trying to yank the door and it's locked and he can't get in. So he goes up to this worker and he's like, I have to use the bathroom like a camel, which I don't. Camels hold their pee.


Really? You yeah. You're supposed to be like a racehorse.


Right. But apparently I need to pee like someone who doesn't need to pee. OK, that sounds about correct. And the worker pokes fun at him for getting lost. And so you can tell, like, maybe he still has to pee or something. And it's really bad because he went. You've worked here for four years. I've been here for four minutes.


And then the worker goes. You goes. I learned the entire house in two days.


I kind of wonder and wants to learn the virtual tour to be able to say, this is exactly why I was like, I could go on two days and then I got like I could just be looking back and forth.


I'm like, that asshole who Zach who is like, Yeah, I've lost. OK, I get it. I'm terrible DryShips. I just need to pee that I get it. Zach, for once I get it.


I really liked her like snap and I like her snap back on him and I feel like her eyes suggested like I know exactly what I fucking said.


And someone out there is going to appreciate this. And I do.


We do so only like really small things happened during the first part of this investigation. They were like it was like like some peas that were really like not very specific. There was like an orb and a picture that he fucking freaked out over. The most important thing that I should mention is before the investigation, they thought it was important to prep for this with like to like really bring out the spirits who are mad about the Winchester rifle. And so they went to a shooting range and they shot at a white poster that said demon on it.


So really pissed him off. So so that's what he fucking did. It was at least like a like arguably a five minute segment of him just shooting out a white piece of paper.


Oh, my God, I don't like. And he looks so badass. I'm sure he wore the exact shirt to show off the exact tattoos. He wanted to show off on his exact biceps.


So the main thing that happened during this investigation, which like I guess is an interesting experiment during the tour, he found out that some people think that this house is actually on either ley lines or some sort of vortex or it could be a portal to another realm or something.


OK, love that. Yeah. And so he ended up saying there have been some other houses or some other locations that we've investigated that we felt like we had really strong attachments to or we had really interesting experiences that and they also claimed to be portals to the other side. One of them was the WASHOW Club in Nevada and the other was Bobby Mackey's in Kentucky.


Right. Which, by the way, I found out is fifteen minutes from my freaking house.


And we have triangulated ourselves just like houseflies.


It's fifteen minutes from Cincinnati, so that doesn't really give you much direction.


But I didn't realize how close it was to Cincinnati. But when you visit, we have to go.


Oh, without question. But fifteen minutes. I do think it's fun that we've made a full circle here in our triangulating. We've learned nothing this whole time. We've learned nothing.


If anybody if we had learned something, I'd be disappointed. We we have not changed. So. So I haven't seen the Bobby Mackey's episode in a very long time, but I vaguely remember that it was like one of his earlier very dark episodes where he was actually they performed an exorcism on him at Bobby McKees. Oh, dear. Because he was like there was he had an attachment and then he went to this place that's supposed be super powerful and got an exorcism and like the demon, like kind of low key came out at Bobby Mackey's or something.


So Bobby Mackey's apparently just the thought of it makes him feel really uncomfortable. So he thought since these are other places that are really powerful, that are said to be vortexes and I'm currently in one of them, one of those houses. What if we he made a try. He tried to make it sound much more scientific and elaborate than it was. Really what it was, was he was escaping to other people. He was calling those places in those places while they investigated.


And the thought was that they they could all talk to each other while they were all investigating at the same time. And if Zach said, like, if you are a spirit at Bobby Mackey's, please come to the Winchester mystery house. And they would try to measure did it did any of their equipment go off after that demand or was there was there any evidence at both Bobby Mackey's and Winchester mystery house that something was happening at the same time during a transfer of the spirit?


So it's an interesting theory.


Yeah. I mean, I get the concept. It's he tried to make it sound like he was like a secret agent and like, figure it out. He was. We're going to connect with these other people through a satellite network, and I was like, OK, the Internet guy. So basically what happened? They ended up getting some good stuff right? When the WASHOW Club asked the spirits to jump to the Winchester house, Aaron feels cold spikes and the Bobby Mackey's picks up a demonic growl on an EVP.


So it's interesting that all three of them interacted in some, but they didn't know that it was happening. They were all saying at the same time there was like, oh, this happened to me. Oh, this happened to me.


But they didn't know, like, oh, right now I'm going to say this. No, they didn't know it. Got it. Got it. They lined it up later. Yeah, got it.


And some of some things they were able to pick up in real time and other things. I think they just found out later and post was happening at the same time. But so they picked up a growl and then later is is like this. The voice that I heard when I was at Bobby McGee sounded exactly like this demon. So in his theory, this thing heard them from the Winchester house and like wanted to scare them all over again from the last time I met with him.


Got back to face time. Yeah. So Zach asked the spirits to come through and at the same time something at the Washoe Club moved and an investigator got touched. And there was a female EVP that came in that said, hey, you, that's nice. Yeah. Erin feels a cold spot at the same time that things are going on. Bobby Machias and they think that they both feel the spirit jumping from one place to another because they're both having cold spots and called that at the exact same moment.


While Bobby McKees is trying to figure out connection issues on their satellite network, they ask if the spirits are responsible for their shitty Wi-Fi and an EVP says yes. Then at the Washoe Club, there was a male voice that came through in real time that said enter, which is terrifying. And then, Erin, all of a sudden feels like he wants to throw up at the same time an EVP comes out that says, Erin kill.


Oh, that being said, I listen to it and it doesn't sound like Erin kill. OK, but there was knocking on the wall that made no sense. And a lot of their equipment started going off. At the same time, Erin starts getting like hot and cold sweats. He wanders off and doesn't realize that he wandered off, which is like one of the first signs of a possession, which apparently he also did a Bobby Mackey's. I think he says he wants to be alone and he feels like he did when he was at Bobby Mackey's.


And he's really scared. But he goes off to be by himself and says that he he tells the spirits, I'm alone, come get me. And at Bobby's matches, they said, did you go after Aaron? And an EVP in Bobby? Mackey said, he told me to go.


So that's creepy. That is creepy.


Aaron walks up to Zach and apparently he has like one of those, like, really sinister looks raised on himself. Zach freaks out and says, like, you look really scary. You look like you don't normally look. And Aaron says that he the whole time didn't realize he even approached Zach, but he saw a man standing by him. And then an EVP shows up that says, Aaron, you're an ass.


So after all this, this is the after this portal test, one of the members from the WASHOW Club investigation, they apparently didn't feel really good and couldn't shake it after the investigation. And their symptoms got so bad that only ten days later she went to an exorcist.


Oh, dear. So I apparently they even put a disclaimer in the show where they're like she apparently was already dealing with some, like, dark attachments. So we don't know if, like, we made it worse or not, but, like, probably didn't help.


Oh, dear. OK, and then this is probably actually my favorite thing that's happened on on ghost adventures. But it's kind of sad. But it's the most goose bumpe goose cam thing for me is that after that portal test happened, they were on their own investigation for the night.


And everything's really calm. Nothing's happening at all. But they're holding like a piece of equipment and it goes off. You can hear the alarm go off. And he did not have his human body physiologically, didn't have time to react to this. So it's not like he heard this and then all of a sudden said something. He at the same time that the sound goes off, he looks at the camera and goes, I have to stop, I have to go.


And he just was acting. He also said are really calmly like nothing was happening that should have freaked him out. But he looked like he wasn't doing good. He said that like before the equipment went off, he felt really, really weird and like really off. And then like literally as he starts talking, the machine goes off. So I don't think he could have known about that. And he just looks at the camera, says, I have to stop, I have to go.


And then he radioed the property manager to let them out. And it's the only time he's ever, like, exited a location. And that happened at one a.m. and they were in Pacific Standard Time. And the next day he found. That at 4:00 p.m. Eastern Standard Time, which is the same time his grandmother died. Yeah. So not like the best note to end on, but, you know, holy shit, still creepy still there. That is so Gus Kamei.


But anyway, that is the Winchester mystery house.


So good. Thank you. Wow. I'm sorry.


Welcome to the longest episode we've ever done.


But I want to top says one hour, 59 minutes superduper.


Listen, I'm. That was wild. I'm like I was just enamored. Also, the thing about his grandma that's. Isn't that crazy. Who? Boy, I mean, I like when my grandma died, I had the same kind of like weird full on body panic attack, like couldn't breathing. And I didn't even know why until later. So, yeah, the same like your body's reacting. You don't know why.


It was super weird too, because, like, it was almost like when the meter went off, it was like his grandma like went to say bye or something. Yeah.


Like it triggered the thing. Oh yeah. So it was weird that it almost like registered the experience he was having and he was, he was so calm. He just looked at the camera like we have to go. Oh it was very weird.


But anyway I, I'm, I would like to apologize and say sorry this is so long, but the last couple of times we've done that, we've gotten like a slew of DBMS from people being like, we love your long episodes, please stop apologizing, stop yelling at us to stop apologizing. So I guess maybe eventually we will. So today in our nature, but I am going to jail. I'm going to justify I was saying like I've wanted to get a get some, like, redemption on researching that location because we didn't know what we were doing the first time we got to talk about it.


We just were like, what's our favorite thing? And then we talked about it. And then like 100 hundred episodes later we were like, oh, I wish we could have, like, really taken the time to like. Yeah, go into it. Yeah. So there you go.


Well, I do want to say one one really quick note. I forgot when we were talking earlier about our flashbacks of like, wow, we like this hadn't happened. This hadn't happened. This hadn't happened yet. We also forgot to mention the best part. We never we hadn't met Eva yet. No, we hadn't even had Eva in our lives.


So you wonder we were so dismal and dark we should do a little clink. Clink. Oh, yeah. Here we go.


Clink Cheers to Eva to without Eva, this would not have 200 episodes Charlie.


So without Eva I'd probably be buried somewhere in the ground. I would have buried you. But that's ok. That's exactly. Yeah.


OK, I would have survived anyway. Thank you for your service. We, we love you forever and ever and ever. Don't ever leave us.


OK, I have a story for you today. This is the story of Jonestown.


I've heard of this. What have you. Yeah. Oh my gosh. I'm so excited about this is another one. Where am I covered? Like a story we were super excited about in the first episode. And then we're like, shit, I want to do it again. So we did it again.


I'm very excited. Oh my gosh. I also I so I intentionally did not listen to your half of the episode. Oh, you did it. I wanted to make sure that I didn't just copy myself when I came to like the banter.


I want to like I probably did that with yours, but oh I loved it. Not too. I felt bad halfway through because I was like, man, like, she is really like helping me out here and I like to not do the same, but I feel I wanted to make sure that I came in with a fresh mind being fully honest.


I listened to it last night. So it's very fresh.


It's like, oh, perfect. OK, I just wanted to give a hot take, that's all. I love it. OK, wait, so now you're excited because there's a lot of things that we said that are so dumb.


All I remember is that there is a woman named Christine who like saves the day at one point.


Yes. That I mean, that's the most important part of the story. I would argue also. I mean, in her last name is not Schiefer. Wait a minute. OK, hang on. Well, we didn't need to add that detail, OK, but I guess we could add it if we have to do it.


All right.


So before 9/11, that's how we're beginning for 9/11.


This incident was known as the largest single incident of intentional civilian death in American history.


Holy shit. Followed only by 9/11.


So let's start with Jim Jones. He was born on May 13th, 1931. So he's a Taurus.


I love it. Sounds stubborn. You're right.


This was before we ever added our Zodiac obsession into our stories. But lo and behold, he was a Taurus.


He was from Indiana, which you told you told everybody, everyone. All the problems or all the crazy people come from Indiana.


Yikes. I said, Oh, well, I'm from like ten minutes from Indiana. So I was like, yeah, I mean, you're not wrong. I just know that the here's the thing. As someone who's always lived on coasts, I just don't know the Midwest well enough to the middle. It's scary. I feel like it's such a like a gray blur and, you know, it's so, you know. Yeah. Way with a lot.


There's a lot happening there. And it's so. Yeah. It's all blurred together. Yeah. No, you're completely spot on.


Also let me take this moment to say. I don't know what Sarah Winchester Zodiac was, but I can pretty much guarantee vacante she was a Gemini. She sounds like she sounds like that's probably why I kept saying, wow, I get it, I. I mean, also, like, I'm sure a million people are about to tweet us what her actual birthday was. But like, I do think she you're wrong.


I'm telling you, she's I'm sure like her rising sign was Gemini, if nothing else. Without question. Yeah.


OK, so if you so I don't know who remembers what from episode one, but I'll tell you, Jim Jones on his Wikipedia page, the top suggestion in the C also section is list of people who have claimed to be Jesus and drinking the Kool-Aid.


So those are kind of the two tags he gets.


Those are those are his his most notable hash tags.


Yeah, exactly. Got it. That's like his Tinder bio.


So in episode one, you so you had commented that you thought this was kind of like a story that our parents had known about while it happened and we only heard second hand. Yes. Which is kind of true.


Like drink the Kool-Aid, you hear of it.


But it happened, you know, during a time when we were not alive, I, I just remember I don't know why I have why I ever saw it, but I only have maybe because it was the most dramatic or the most traumatic. But I remember like the image of like everyone on the ground after. Yes. But that's the only that's the only thing I ever knew before, really hearing the whole story. So I think I made up the story in my head to match that picture.


Well, you did you did talk about a documentary you watched, but you did say you didn't pay attention to it.


So it makes sense. I don't remember three years later that I'm OK. I thought that's what you're going to mention.


But, yeah, that's what you talked about. So Jim Jones was always known as a really weird kid, according to a childhood friend named Chuck Wilmore.


So there's this 2006 documentary. I'm not sure if that's the one you watched called Jonestown The Life and Death of People's Temple.


Oh, maybe.


Yes, there are quite a few documentaries, so I don't know which ones which, but maybe it's on. His childhood friend said he was obsessed with religion. He was obsessed with death. A friend of mine told me he saw Jimmy kill a cat with a knife.


So shit like he's, you know, homicidal, homicidal, try adding all over the place, say, and nobody says but me.


It's there. It's looking not 100 percent. It's nothing there right now.


Things aren't starting starting off great. So according to a book called The Road to Jonestown by Jeff Gwynne, Jones also had an early fascination with Adolf Hitler.


Yikes. Yikes. Let's make that a quadruple threat then. Yes. This is a homicidal quadruple. I don't know, Brad. I don't know the homicidal Quadri. You know what it is?


What is it? The homicidal rhombus. What have we done here? Goodbye. Hang on a second world. How did we. Bye, cruel world. I'm leaving you. I'm leaving this earthly plane, leaving my husband behind. It's it's a love triangle. May it's the homicidal rhombus. It's the homicide. I feel evil writing that down for that. Like the homicidal rhombus.


Wow. Hey, guys. OK, I forgot about it. When we want to make when we make shirts with a rhombus on it, don't you dare tell us that we copyrighted anything.


Don't tell us that's a triangle because we don't know. Yes.


We don't know what shape it is now. It could be it's a rhombus. It could be a hexagon for all I know.


Well, that's a big word. OK, there was an X in there. I felt really, really smart with the weight of like who won over me.


OK, so according to his friend, he had a I'm sorry, according to this author, this biography, Jones had an early fascination with Adolf Hitler when Hitler this is a quote When Hitler committed suicide in April 1945, thwarting enemies who sought to capture and humiliate him, Jimmy was impressed.


He wrote, So I feel like a lot of my reactions are going to just be like recreations of Jim Halpert space all the time.


I'm just like, yeah, I like the West Side. I yeah, yeah. The grown up as a kid. Jim, speaking of Jim was a regular churchgoer. He graduated from Butler University and you can actually find his transcript online at Jonestown SDLC Eddo.


And actually here, I don't know, you probably can't see it, but I have a picture of his actual transcript. I kind of see I kind of see it. It looked OK. Yeah, it's hard to see.


But his transcript basically says that he got to be in public speaking, which is very interesting since he became a cult leader.


Yeah, it's fun to find the little the little figments of your youth. Yeah. The faults, the little fault.


What were the foreshadowing moments that no one paid attention to? Yeah, he might have been overcompensating because he got to be in public speaking and then he decided to enter the ministry.


OK, so in 1955, Jim Jones decides he's going to start a cult in Indianapolis.


He described this as a church that was going to say to me, wake up and go. It is that's today is planned.


His church, quote unquote, was originally called the Wings of Deliverance.


But then he changed the name to the People's Temple, which is the one that stuck church.


He wanted to build a type of utopia, and he preached that his church would be communist, anti-racist and socialist. He adopted many interracial kids. He strove for community that was inclusive of all races and ethnicities. And he claimed to have special powers to heal the sick and dying.


He would often stage healings, which reminds me of like the like the evangelical.


Yes. Yeah. Like speaking in tongues. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like the super fundamentalist people. Yeah, like the. Yeah, exactly. Like the hardcore. You had stage these big healing's in front of audiences and he would always wear. I have a photo of this for the video. He would always wear dark sunglasses inside, outside whether it was sunny or not. I remember him looking a little like Elvis Presley or something.


Yes, he was very has the flash aviator's. Yeah. Yeah. He always wore his like greased hair and his his sunglasses. Exactly.


So there is a there's an academic named Catherine B Abbott who wrote her master's thesis about Jonestown. And here's a quote from one of Jim Jones's sermons about women. So I'm just going to read you this quote, I can't wait.


Imagine me in sunglasses, OK? Yeah.


And this very day, this very day, you women are treated not like a whole piece of shit. Men are treated at least like a whole piece of shit, but women are treated like a little side shit. The big shit show goes for the man. You say, well, why are women not able to make as much wages, women of the same jobs and make half the pay? We need women to be free. Women just cannot even get free.


They can work just as hard. When do you know who do you blame for it? You blame your Bible, you can blame your Bible. You can blame your sky God. Because a woman has never accounted for nothing but a little side shit. She's never been anything. She's never amounted to anything. Woman supposed to have been the fault of man's fault. Poor damn fool. OK, so.


So that's a lot to unpack. Yeah. There's a lot going on. It sounds so it started it's is it misogynistic. At some point I felt like he was rooting for women and then it sounded like he fucking hates them.


What now he's. No, no. He's saying like women you've never been treated right. Like men are treated like so much above you, even though you work just as hard.


Shit Muslim shit was being used positively. Yeah. He was like, yes, he's like he's like you're treated. A little piece of shit, at least men are treated like an entire piece of shit and you're only treated like a sight. That's how I that's how I heard it originally negatively of like, oh, like your I don't even know how I took it.


Yeah, it does hurt. And to be quite honest, I'm not 100 percent sure I'm even understanding it correctly. I think it's I think it's good that we're it shows our logic that, like, we can't comprehend something that's illogical.


It's hard to it's hard to fully grasp. He also recounts the story of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. He mocks the story he calls Lucifer Lucifer part.


Oh, well, wow, OK. And he asserts God was a liar. The snake told the truth.


So I'm pretty sure he's basically saying, like, Christianity is a lie. I'm starting this utopia. All races are equal. All humans are equal. Like I mean, it's basically like that classic story of a utopia, like everything's going to be great, like we're all just going to be happy. Lolla like, you know.


And so clearly it doesn't end that way. But that's how it began.


Right. So as he gained more and more traction, he would preach less about the Bible and more about social activism. He called himself a prophet. He had hundreds of followers and he was preaching to a very diverse audience.


And then sometimes in the sometime in the early 60s, he found this article in Esquire, the men's magazine that listed the nine safe places in the world in the event of a nuclear catastrophe, written by my father, I think, and edited by me.


Yes. One of those listed in the article was Eureka, California, which Esquire said escapes damages in the war games attack because it is west of the Sierras and upwind from every target in the United States. So Jim Jones was like, well, I guess that is where I'm going to move my church. So he is now in his mid 30s. He moves his church to California. And the basically the way that he do you remember how he made money for the church?


Mm hmm. No, let me give you a hint. Call me Daddy and I'll sell you a monkey.


Well, the twenty seventeen I was going to say, let's throw that shirt. I'm guessing he sold monkeys. Oh, he was a door-To-Door monkey salesman or something. And then you mentioned your stepmom had a bear or something, correct?


Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So he right then that has Urmi blacking out fully 100 percent, OK. He basically would sell imported monkeys door to door, which at the time we were like, that's cool. And now I'm like, that's just really sad now that I've learned a lot more about animal cruelty and all that good stuff. But yeah, he would sell imported monkeys door to door. And then I told a story about my stepmother and her brothers.


Bought a bear from a catalog. Yes. And it escaped. Ended up on 75, you know.


And then now so let's reflect, because the first time I heard that story, I didn't know. You know, now that I hear it today, I would not react. I would be like, OK, when does it get different? When does it get, you know, like, yeah, I figured that probably happened.


So I'm I'm shocked it took this long to know about it. OK, yeah.


They bought a bear from a catalog, kept it in the sunroom, the playroom, and then their parents got home from like a six month trip and found it in the sunroom and then they kept it. And then one day it escaped and they found it on Izadi five and then the Cincinnati Zoo took it in and they would always come visit it on weekends. And then eventually, obviously, it died because this was many, many decades ago. But, yeah, it lived there for a long time anyway.


Just the wild a story instances. You did take good care of it, even though this is just a horrific thing that people are selling animals on in catalogs. It's wild. But anyway, so he sold monkeys door to door.


He also would drain all of his churchgoers bank accounts and, you know, took all their money, basically Scientology style to fund the church.


And it grew and grew. And according to a journalist named Tim Leiterman, the People's Temple attracted decent, hardworking, socially conscious people, some highly educated who wanted to help their fellow man and serve God, not and not embrace a self-proclaimed on earth. And people would flock to the People's Temple because one of the big reasons was because of its marketing. So there were these like he just was like a king.


He was a salesman, I guess. So he was like good at marketing. So he was a schmoozer. Yeah, yeah.


He was very good at selling his product, whatever it may be. Monkies churches. I don't know.


Monkies check churches. Absolutely. Absolutely. You say it. I got it. Bada bing ba boom. Yeah.


Let me open my briefcase. Yes. So you can find pamphlets. There's actually a photo for the activity can find pamphlets that were handed out there. Are these like flowery quotes about how great of an example Jim Jones set for humanity. And there were these photos like candid photos of the community with quotes alongside them. So there's this photo of all these children lifting up a log. And the caption was, children are given the opportunity to work and play in pleasant outdoor settings.


They even find that work projects can be fun. Yikes.


Yikes. Right. It's like, OK, read between the lines. Children are working. Yeah, this is child labor and child labor.


This pamphlet also mentions how that you're the People's Temple. We're doing summer vacation tours where Pastor Jones took hundreds of members from all three churches on a tour of the country. For example, in seventy five, Jim Jones took hundreds of members to Disneyland. So he was presented pretty great.


Like they're like, oh, well, we have fun. We serve humanity. We go to Disneyland like I mean, it's paid for it sounds like the perfect first ingredient to a Utopia cult where it's like, OK, it starts as a utopia and then it's a cult.


They've got it. The classic two step. Right. The one to step aside, as Missy Elliott has said before, was that Missy Elliott, Missy Elliott, Sera, Sera. Oh, my gosh. It was maybe both of them were in that song.


I think I'm failing my, my, my all my 90's babies. I'm so sorry.


I think it might have been both were in that song, though. So anyway, so but in exchange for all of this, like Disney trips and, you know, this affection and support followers were expected to devote themselves completely to this utopian project. So basically, they would turn over all their finances, classic cult move. They would work long hours of unpaid labor. They would have to break contact with their families. So like that reminds me of Heaven's Gate, where, like, they just were cut off and it was like monitored communication and followers were expected to raise their families and children within the commune.


So as now this reminds me of Nexium, speaking of cults as a show of commitment, People's Temple Mount. They were asked to sign false testimonials that they had molested their children who like as like as as as collateral like collateral case in case something happened, they had this, like, fake evidence to make you look terrible.


It's also images of Scientology where they like. Yes. Like Fair Game. It's a similar exactly similar idea. And like a Nexium, they had that to where they were. They were like, we need black or we need black male. And you read collateral. And they'd be like, I don't have any. And they were like, well, then you need to make it up. Like, that's just how it operates. So. Jim, had everyone in the church call him either father or dad, which is where you came up with your lovely call me Daddy and I'll tell you, I was quote, I immediately her dad and daddy, like, I'm sure someone can call them daddy.


Yeah, they did. And like, you can hear it in the audiotapes that they still have of the community.


Pass the Koran.


We're passed that. Just fucking pass a hard pass, though. For this period.


He described himself as Christ and he won at one point also announced that he considered himself God. He also took a lot of drugs, which I know now.


I know I know the shocking shit out of town, man.


And it was these drugs and maybe his past job history that may or may not have led him to acquiring a pet chimpanzee or maybe the the brain activity that made him think you should get a chimpanzee to begin with.


Yeah, yeah.


There were a lot of steps, a lot of one, two, three, four, five, six steps that led to this chimpanzee being acquired by Mr. Jones and the chimpanzee.


His name was Mr. Muggs, sort of, you know, and we have a photo. I'm going to put it in the video. I don't think I have it for you here, but we have a photo for the video of Mr. Muggs, and he's very sweet.


He eventually became sort of like a mascot, much like go for the cult.


OK, wait a minute. Now, I'm starting to see too many similarities with him. Yeah, it's a little parallel. Remember that time at one of the live shows when someone screamed and shouted and called me daddy?


Terrible. Like multiple live shows where that happened because you literally OK. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. OK. Just I thought maybe I'd add it's out of context. Nobody else started it. OK, wait a minute.


Sorry to myself.


Sorry. I want you to apologize to me. I'm sorry Christine. I regret it. And also like we've, we've done so well in keeping everything a secret about the show that I definitely made it sound more mysteriously x rated now. So everyone, if you went to the show, you get it.


If not, or maybe you don't get it, you're still like, I don't get it, which is fair. I still don't get it.


OK, but anyway, everyone's being called daddy. We've got it. We've got a mascot. He's got got it.


Yeah. Who's more popular than us. Yeah, I got it.


According to a 1973 article from what they called the Temple Reporter, which was like literally their own newspaper. I love it.


What what a business. And I'm like, who is in charge of that?


Here's the quote, only 18 months old. This is about Mr Mogs, only eighteen months old. He has the intelligence of a four year old child. It may sound anthropomorphic, but mugs will follow every command of Pastor Jones and will defend him when anyone comes up casually to pet the chimpanzee. So he was like a member of the family. And though the People's Temple had gained significant admiration from a lot of leftwing icons, including Angela Davis, Harvey Milk and the Black Panthers, Jim developed this like really intense paranoia.


And he was convinced that the FBI and CIA were after him, OK?


And his church like was still growing, though. And he heard there was like this expose being written about him and the People's Temple. So he decided it was time to move from California to somewhere a little more isolated. And that is when he took his big fam and his monkey and went to Guyana, where we've performed, obviously, where.


Oh, yeah, our stage is still down there. Yes. He flew all of his hundreds of members to Guyana in nineteen seventy seven, found a remote section of jungle. He leased it from the government to relocate the People's Temple, and it basically became a working agricultural commune called Jonestown after himself.


And it was basically considered a utopian settlement away from the meddling media and government of the United States.


I say so over time, more and more people would come and fly to Guyana to join the movement that were about 900 people in total. And unfortunately, not shockingly, Jonestown was not quite as utopian as people had envisioned.


So it was a small place. It was a small, tiny place. There were not enough cabins. So everyone was kind of piled on top of each other. There weren't enough resources. It sounds a little bit like Fire Island, remember?


You know, I was going to say Fire Island. Yeah. Oh, yeah, yes. That that was actually one of our first real outside of the paranormal.


That was one of our first real friendship, like gossip chit chat where when you came over before we recorded and I said, sit your fucking ass down, you've got to talk. Yeah, I remember that day.


I remember that was one of the first times I remember thinking during that conversation, we're finally not talking about ghosts.


And I still her. We're finally talking about another type of crime, yeah, shocker. Yeah, so that's what it sounds like a little bit. So that it. So people came to this place looking for Utopia. They ended up working 11 to 12 hour days, which again, sounds pretty fucking familiar to our Hollywood lives. Absolutely.


The cabins were gender specific, so married couples were split up. And according to an ex member named Tim Carter, Jim Jones hated romantic relationships within the temple because he was worried that they would be like a threat to his religion because they would band together.


Yeah, like. Yeah, exactly. So the members, he was worried they would be focused on the relationship instead of their work. So this ex member named Tim Carter said, my wife Gloria and I were one of those couples who never really talked to each other about what our true feelings were about Jones, because we were afraid that the other might get called up to the carpet. So basically, like you didn't know if you could trust the other person.


It's also like Scientology again. Yeah, I'm sure it's like a lot of other cults, but at least Scientology. I know, like, you're afraid to even go to your like your own parents about things because they'll write you up if they're in the church, right?


Exactly. So furthermore, according to an ex temple follower named Joyce Houston, Jim said that all of us were homosexuals.


What? All of us were homo homosexuals. Yes, OK. All all of us except him.


He was the only heterosexual on the planet.


Was it's OK.


What did you say this the first time around? No, I didn't know about this and what I did. And I went, what?


This is the most shocking information of this entire 50 hour episode when I found it.


So hold on. So he. So it was gay camp or straight camp? The gay camp. He made everyone gay. He prayed. You may not. Yeah. You may not be straight privately. I can say this straight away.


Finally, one of those. Oh my God. Oh, you the straight away.


Except unless you're like the person running the camp then you're like Esterina is a fucking arrow. Then you're immune. Yeah. Yeah. Oh my God. That is exactly what it was. So he said he was the only heterosexual on the planet and that the women were all lesbians, the guys were all gay. And so anyone who showed an interest in sex was just compensating. Though a married man himself, Jones would supposedly engage in sexual relations with sexual relations with some of his female and male followers.


And there were quite a few accounts of harassment, misconduct and abuse, which.


Wow, oh, shocker. He was sleeping with who he thought were lesbians. So I'm going to take a stab in the dark and say if he thinks they're lesbians, he's forcing them to sleep with him. Right. It doesn't make any sense.


But also, he's like gay, like if he's sleeping with the guys. Right.


Right. There's a reason. I think there's a reason he's like so outwardly aggressive about everybody's orientation. I'm straight as an arrow. I think you're Sprague's a circle, bro. Like, look at you sleeping with men, screaming about how strong you are and yelling that everyone else is compensating.


It's like what they're already married. Like, leave them alone. Yeah.


I don't know why is being gay so involved in both of these stories? And we don't even though it's you're right.


It never I mean, it's kind of like the first episode of our show. It makes sense that this is how we would evolve from there.


But this is some queer shit. I'm so about it. OK, yeah.


Anyway, so he would manipulate his followers from things like so everyone's passports were confiscated. They he would censor letters home also if he didn't like your name because it reminded him of someone he didn't like, he would just change your name.


I mean, to be fair, we do that to Megan's. So again, that's another similarity. Also, like the queer thing is really I feel attacked. I don't like how close to home this is becoming.


Well, you're not going to like this then, because the first example is a woman named Linda. And he said, I don't Linda, I don't like your name. So he changed her name to Sharon.


I'm sorry, girl. You know, and obviously this place was also in Guyana.


So it was super duper hot. People were getting sick. And if you resisted any of his orders, you'd have to answer to his armed guards, which he called the Red Brigade Lord.


OK, yeah. So he was like constantly off his face on drugs, basically. And his followers were always working in this, like, labor camp basically.


And he would basically spend all his time talking into a loudspeaker over the P.A. system.


Again, we spend all of our time talking into essentially a big ass P.A. system. Oh. And he would basically go on rant about his philosophies. And by the way, if you look at his friggin transcript here, he got a B in philosophy.


So I think someone else is overcompensating and it's he just wants that goddamn a he's I know it's like public speaking and philosophy.


And now he's shouting into a system of personal religion. So basically, like at 2:00 in the morning. He would just get on the P.A. system and start ranting, so like nobody got sleep. Everyone was constantly working, it was miserable. And then when you were done working, you'd have to attend what they called mandatory propaganda classes.


So, oh, I don't like that.


OK, that one night, that one night I turn I turn by turn my back on, really because I got an A in that class.


And so the Guyanese government actually kind of like ignored the authoritarian ruling of this cult because Jim Jones had sort of sweet talked his way into acquiring this land. And he basically presented it to the government as like a benefit because he said they would. So he would basically speak of their advantages as being an American presence near Guyana's Dysport disputed border excuse me, with Venezuela. So he he basically framed it as like a political benefit to them, that these Americans were living kind of near the border.


And this would add to your resistance against Venezuela, basically your defense. Got it. So back in the US, parents of inhabitants of Jonestown began to get really concerned by the weird letters they would get or the lack of letters if they were being censored. So they started lobbying the government to investigate. And this is where our hero comes in, one of our heroes, US Congressman Leo Ryan.


And we I got to I think you know what I'm thinking to do what? No, just just tumbleweeds in there.


OK, so, no, I mean, just another like we didn't know then, but like one of one of the people that work for us, his name is Leo and he's our business manager and actual heroes, an actual hero. He saves us every day.


So like we saved us from tax accidental tax fraud. Really, truly.


We like. Wow. Just so many things that we liked had no idea about at the time that just like we're just foreshadowing and we had just like a synchronicity.


Anyway, Leo's wife listens to our show pretty religiously. So give Leo a hug for us, because Theresa, again, we would not be here two hundred episodes later if it weren't for Leo keeping.


No, we wasn't really wasn't so out of jail. Out of podcasts or jail. Yes. Oh, my God.


So Congressman Ryan had heard reports about Jonestown and many family members of people who were basically asking him. Oh, and in the episode, by the way, I said I was taking myself so seriously and you called me out because I basically said Congressman Leo Ryan. And I said he was a congressman. His name was Leo Ryan. And you were like, oh, really?


Like, you repeated yourself with the same information and you were like, and let me guess, was he a congressman? And I was like, OK, well, I'm funny.


I would listen to a podcast. You got to listen to episode. Well, it was pretty funny. Oh, that's. And I was like all flustered.


Well, oh, God. So basically, this guy, Congressman Ryan, flies down with an NBC TV crew, which like I think in episode one, we fail to like, see the potential of this being like an amazing TLC reality show.


Without question, he flies to a cult in Guyana with a TV crew like Hello.


That's all like that screams TLC. But that screams Fire Fest Hulu documentary. Wait a minute. Actually, come on.


That's literally pretty much the same premise. Yeah.


So he flies in with this NBC TV crew and and they brought along again, TLC brought along some of the relatives who were like super concerned about what their families were doing down there.


What a what a move as a producer. Good call.


They filled up a plane with all the drama flew down there. And so, unfortunately, Jim Jones knew that they were coming.


So he basically prepared this elaborate show for his visitors.


Basically, once the congressman and his posse flew in, they flew into an airstrip called Port Kaituma airstrip, which we were going on and on about. Is there an airport in Guyana in the jungle, which I guess they're strip Jungle Airways.


Jungle Airways, that's right. Yeah.


So a truck full of Peoples Temple members were there to pick them up and bring them to Jonestown. And when they arrived, things looked like pretty OK, like they were surprised at how normal everything looked.


A survivor named Vernon Gosney later said that the congressman coming to visit was a huge deal. They had to repaint the houses. They spruced up the plants. Basically, they sharpened up the whole place to make a positive impression.


They really just it up like they judged it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because they knew he was coming and it was a big deal. So there was a lot of rehearsal also in the community about what they were allowed to say to the congressman. What they weren't allowed to say, thanks. Yeah, so in a documentary called Jonestown Massacre Paradise Lost, when the crew asked one Jonestown member, how long would you like to stay, they replied forever, just like fucking terrifying.


If I asked that question and got that answer, I would be like, I immediately don't believe you have to be calling nine one one in my pocket.


Like, I believe I'd be like, are you sure? Like we're leaving now. Blink twice if you actually meant I want to go 11, put on a yellow shirt. I need to come rescue you. Don't look at Lemann's yellow exterior today because it's too fishy, too fishy.


I knew it in a lot of the footage. There's like all these I love it here. Like they were just clearly putting on airs.


It's really creepy. And Jones is well aware of how this visit like depended how much. Right. Like basically wrote on this visit and how he needed Congressman Ryan to to leave with a positive report, basically.


So he also scheduled a fun event.


It was a dance in the pavilion for Congressman Ryan's arrival, so.


Right. Yeah. So things were seemingly normal there, like having this dance. And he's like, OK, I mean, I guess they're fine.


And then all of a sudden someone slips him a note and the person slips him a note.


Is that same guy I mentioned earlier, Vernon Gosney, who was a survivor, and the note says, help us get out of Jonestown.


So now this is becoming a great movie.


Yeah, but also, if you're the producer of that TLC show, you're like, oh, I fucking hit the jackpot.


Like, yeah, you're like. Right, a little bigger. Yeah. On a clear make your handwriting a little better and then hand it again.


And also you over there pick up my fucking lettuce. It was a plastic knife. Oh good.


So that night he got more of these letters. It wasn't just from Vernon, like he got multiple notes from people being like, I want to leave.


So at this point he's like, OK, things are not as great as they're making it out to be.


So the following morning, November 18th, Congressman Ryan makes a decision that he will be returning to the US with the people who have slipped him a note saying they want to leave.


He says, you know, he makes an announcement basically, and he says anyone who wants to leave Jonestown can come with me back to America. And they're about twenty people that came forward.


Oh, OK.


So, like, as far as context goes, if you wanted to leave Jonestown at this point, you had to have Jim Jones permission. So while this like clause does get out, clause from Congressman Ryan may have sounded appealing. A lot of the community was too scared to come forward because they knew they weren't allowed to write.


So even though even though twenty people said yes, they still it was more than twenty years. Those were just the twenty bravest ones. Exactly.


Those were like the ones desperate enough to leave. And there were a lot of people who were too scared to go with them. Right.


So as Vernon explains in the documentary, his roommate had previously attempted to escape and was apparently punished so badly that he never tried to escape again. And it's unclear like what happened, but like I mentioned it later, but they had like sensory deprivation boxes and like, really scary, you know, torture mechanisms in that way. So who knows? But it was bad news.


So Congressman Ryan and his team loaded these like twenty some people onto a truck and they drove to the airstrip.


And Congressman Ryan actually stayed behind to kind of like triple check that everything was OK.


Like, hello, is anyone else wanted to come? Yeah, like blink twice, come with me. Trying to save as many people as he could, but no one else came back, said they wanted to go back. So as the truck was getting ready to go, so they hop in the truck, they go to the airstrip and as the truck is getting ready to leave or he's heading to the truck, sorry to leave.


A devout member of Jonestown runs up to him and attempts to slash his throat.


Congressman Ryan's throat. Now, if he fails, OK, but Congressman Ryan's like, cool, I get it.


I'm out.


Like, it's been real. It's been real. Real. Maybe I'll catch you later. Catch you on the flip flop.


Yeah, it's been a little too real for me. So he's like, OK, I get it. No one else wants to come. I'm leaving. So the truck goes to the airstrip, but the plane is a bit delayed. So they're waiting for the plane when all of a sudden a truck from Jonestown turns up. Oh, fuck, it's full of cult members all armed with guns and they start shooting.


Oh. So basically, almost everybody was killed.


It's killed, including Congressman Leo Ryan, who was a congressman named Leo. Fuck.


Yeah, that's our guy, our hero. He is killed.


There are journalists who are killed. There are multiple. Most of the members who are trying to escape are killed, and there were only a few survivors, including Vernon Gosney, who later reported some of the stuff I've mentioned.


So how did they get out? Was one of them just like luckily a fuckin pilot?


Like, I think some of them were able to get on the plane and leave and the rest had just been murdered.


And if it was just if it was just you and me at some point and we were stranded and the only way out was a plane that worked perfectly, I'd be like, Chris, I'm sorry, but we're stuck here.


We'd be like, let's just sit down and have a snack. We're done. Would be like, I couldn't even tell you the first a hundred steps to start a plane.


Well, they were waiting on a plane, so I, I saw a plane came at some point and then the whoever was killed was like obviously dead.


And then the remaining survivors, I assume, left with the plane and we're like, holy shit. I see.


I thought it was like a completely grounded plane and everyone was boarding altogether or something. Know.


Yeah, the plane hadn't gotten there yet. So I'm pretty sure the survivors left on the plane. And obviously not most people did not survive. I got another survivor was actually one of Congressman Ryan's aides named Jackie Speier, who actually she survived five gun shots.


Holy shit. And is now a congresswoman representing California's 14th district.


Oh, the mildest news. Yikes. But also, like, OK, so that also for me is shocking because I just said that to me, that story is so much older than me.


But you realize, like, oh, people are from that are still alive. Yeah, I have those memories. It's one of those I don't have time. So hard to conceptualize.


Yeah. Completely, completely. So as this was happening at the airstrip, so back at Jonestown, Jim Jones assembled all of his followers in the pavilion and he told them that something was happening at the airstrip, but he was not the one responsible for it.


But I know everything about it, but weird it's weird that I know everything, but I had nothing to do with it. And also, there's a lot of us missing right now coming back from the airstrip. But don't worry about it. They just let it in a. a. pretzel. It's a coincidence he told them that someone was going to assassinate Congressman Leo Ryan, but Jim was not the one behind it.


I know about it and I could prevent it, but I don't know anything. I could have prevented the entire thing, but I didn't.


He tells the community that when the United States finds out about this attack, they are going to come down on us. They're going to, quote, torture and kill us, and we've got to do something about it. So basically, he starts fear mongering in this way of like we're now the culprits behind killing this congressman and like we're going to be in such big trouble. And so once once he gets the news that Congressman Ryan has been killed, he basically like loses it.


He goes full steam ahead into his plan for a mass suicide.


Wow. Now, there's an audiotape, which I mentioned in episode one that you can actually listen to on YouTube. It's very disturbing. It's very creepy.


But you can hear basically like the whole leading up to and during this event, this is mass death.


So some quotes from Jim Jones in what is now known as the death tape include the following. If we can't live in peace, let's die in peace. We are not committing suicide. It's a revolutionary act. We can't go back.


They won't leave us alone. Congressman Ryan is responsible for this. He brought all these people to us. They're purposefully agitating the death of our children. They're going to come after our children and then our children will suffer forever. Don't be afraid to die. Fifty people will land here and torture some of our children. Our seniors are people. We can't let this happen and then finally die with a degree of dignity. Don't go down with tears in agony.


This isn't the way for socialist communist people to die.


So, I mean, I can see why he convinced a lot of people. He said the word children a lot and a lot. Right. Of just like do this for the kids, do for the kids. They're going to get tortured if. Yeah, yeah, yeah.


Like weaponize them. Like, if you don't kill them, they're going to be killed.


It's like, it's like and also in Jesus and can control everything about this.


I can't stop and also I have sunglasses on so I really can't see very well. But as far as I know. Yeah.


So I mentioned this in the first episode and you remembered it is that there is a woman named Christine. Hmm.


Her name's Christine Miller and she was born June 4th.


She has the same birthday as me. So that's fun for me and not her, I'm sure, but fun for me. And she's basically the only one who, like, resisted. Jones And you were not allowed to resist Jim Jones.


Like, that is not a thing that was allowed, but she basically just spoke her mind whenever she wanted to and people just kind of let her do it. So some of the punishments were sensory deprivation boxes being drugged in the medical unit, being threatened to be shot, but, Christine, kind of like passed by all that one time she was threatened to be shot and she said, shoot me, but you'll have to respect me first. Oh, shit.


Wow. And she said it three times and then Jim back down.


So she was a badass. She, like, kind of had nothing and everything to live for. Wow. Yeah. She was she was a she was kick ass. That was old.


I wonder why. Like everyone just kind of let her get away with that bullshit. I don't know. I think she just was like a strong, independent woman. She was like the only person.


Not entirely. She's like the only person not entirely falling for this stuff.


So I guess maybe, yeah, maybe they all at least all the people who should have done something kind of knew that this place was like something was up and maybe they really respected her confidence.


And yeah, I think they were kind of like respectful and like maybe a little intimidated by her. Yeah. Wow. So actually on the death tape, you can hear Christine Miller retaliating and she tries to plead the case that everyone is an individual. They should have their right to their own opinion. And she suggests instead that they airlift to Russia. And Jim Jones says it's too late for that. And then she point out, Blank says, I'm afraid to die.


And then she makes the following case. I think the babies deserve to live. And then Jim says, I know it's it's fucking terrible.


And then Jim says, I agree, but I think they deserve peace. And she tries to use this belief system against him, but he is not having it. So finally, the crowd turns on her and they start heckling her for speaking out against their leader, basically.


Oh, shit. And finally, about 22 minutes into the recording, we hear the report that the congressman has been murdered to which Jim responds, it's all over.


So he starts going, get moving, get moving, get moving. And you can hear this on the tape.


And he orders for large vats of flavored, not Kool-Aid yet to be brought out.


Do you remember your guess of what flavor you guessed? Well, I remember well, I know the answer is grape, but I remember it being I remember always thinking it was just like classic red Kool-Aid.


Yeah. So I guess grape you guys cherry turns out it was grape. So I, I got one point in the history of our podcast. So good for me.


So yeah it was great flavored with a bunch of people told us later on in the show laced with cyanide and Valium, you know, when we first started this, that I didn't hear the word cyanide every week back then.


Yeah, that was like the first time I ever heard it. And I was like, what? Cyanide. And now every time you speak on or off air, I'm like, when are you going to mention cyanide?


You're like, stop talking about cyanide, Christine. There's other things like fire, fire. Guess not everything smells like almonds. Christine OK, we got to go. Can we get a move on? Oh, yeah.


That's our life. Yep. So they had had these, like, trial runs over and over and over, like these practice drills, and they were called white knights. And he would be like, nice. Yes. And he would it was a test of his followers, faith and loyalty, where he would wake everyone up in the middle of the night of like three again and say, they're coming for us, they're coming for us. You need to drink the Kool-Aid.


And so they would like all lineup, drink the Kool-Aid. And then he would say that was just a drill.


So it was what he actually would do. They have to drink non laced Kool-Aid, like go through with it. So when they finally did it this time, maybe some thought it was a drill again.


Yes. So there's no way to know if they even knew that this was like the time that it was actually happening or if they thought it was another drill because that's what they were used to. And he could make it feel really real, like he would be like, wake up, wake up.


They're coming to the. Com compound, like they're coming for us. They're coming for the children drink.


You know, I mean, this is a very obvious statement, but that's so manipulative. Like, I it's just so manipulative. It's just wild. Like, of course, you would like always like give them like really low lows and then really high highs and like just to keep them always like on their toes and be like, I'm testing you always.


It's Yeah. It's so fucked.


So they had done this a million times and he would say this is just a drill. There's no cyanide in your Kool-Aid. So they knew what was the what the plan was basically. And so most of the group basically made their peace with drinking the Kool-Aid and anyone who was in the resistance would be injected with it, even if this was just a drill. So, like, if you resisted it, like you were injected with it anyway, then they found like needle marks on people later.


So that's how they confirmed that. Fucking awful. It's horrifying.


So in the recording, there's a woman who advises the crying people not to be crying. This is something that we should all rejoice about. Just relax.


Like it's so fucking. Creepy to listen to, it's so, so creepy, you can hear screaming children, you can hear people approaching the microphone to thank Dad for giving them life. Yeah. And also to thank him for giving them death. And then I think, like, the creepiest, most eerie part is not the screaming, but when the screaming stops.


Oh, yeah. So they made the dissenters go first, you know, to eliminate basically any resistance. Right.


I was going to say the people who like were literally running around and chasing people with needles. I assume they were the most trusted people and they went after the fact.


Yeah, yeah, exactly. The people who were like totally on board went last. Yeah, exactly. And they also had guards with guns.


So, like, you didn't really have much of a choice unless one shot.


But like if you. OK, sorry. Just stupid. Like if you don't do this you'll get shot. But if you live there other people will come and shoot you like it is just like a lose lose, lose, lose.


Yeah. No matter what you're doing you're already decided. Yeah. Yeah you're screwed. Exactly. Jim Jones himself was killed by a single gunshot wound and actually nobody knows whether it was self-inflicted or if somebody else did it. And the the guess is that he did it to himself. But obviously, you know, we still don't know if because there were many guns on this compound, we don't know if somebody else did it or if he ordered somebody to do it, but he did not drink the Kool-Aid.


So that's an interesting tale. But he was also straight and nobody else on the planet was so right.


Only gay people have to drink flavor. So.


Oh, my God, I'm so. Guyanese troops were the first to reach Jonestown. They came the next morning, discovered a total of nine hundred and thirteen people dead in a field.


This included 276 children. So almost a third of these people were children. Two thirds of the victims were classified as African-American. Mr. Muggs, the champion chimpanzee, was also killed.


Oh, it's really fucking sad, all of it.


The military man, do we know who the one was that killed Mr. Moggs?


I don't know, because someone had to do it and he didn't know whether or not he should drink the flavored right hand a cup.


Well, apparently, they said he did whatever Jim Jones told him to. So maybe he was like, drink this fun water. I don't know.


Shit makes me sad. Makes me really sad. So, yeah, Mr. Muggs was also killed. The military came in the following days. And there are these like, as you mentioned, these horrifying pictures of just bodies, hundreds and I mean almost a thousand bodies on the ground. Like it's just a mass mass tragedy. It's it's really horrific. There was one elderly woman named Hyacinthe Thrash who this is a great line.


She either slept through the whole thing or hid under her bed to discover everyone dead the next day.


Holy shit that we should have done a story where she was the main character. And we just wrote the whole story around what she'd been doing the time.


It's just called Hyson SNAP. And she wakes up and she's like, What happened?


It's on Discovery or TLC or something. And it's just like instead of like, you know, strange addiction, it's like I just slept all day and I woke up to a really bad scene.


I just love that. Like, they don't know if she did it on purpose or if she just fell asleep.


I think it'd be like I didn't know I was pregnant. But it's like I guess I don't know how fucking exhausted I was.


I didn't know everyone around to me was dying by mass suicide. Sees it seems so. The U.S. Air Force was sent in to clear the bodies. In a New York Times article in 96, Hyacinthe remembers Jim Jones saying, sorry. Hyacinth remembers that Jim Jones was nice at the time and revealed that he urged her to sell her Indianapolis home for thirty five thousand dollars and then give him all the proceeds. Yeah, and then on the night of the suicide, when Jim Jones called everyone to the pavilion, she said she refused to go, declaring to her sister that she was sick of Jim Jones.


Oh, I love her. Hi. This is my hero. Yeah.


She probably was like another one of these drills. I'm, like, so tired. I'm so off brand Kool-Aid flavor grape.


Can we get some cherry in the mix?


Cause I just wake me up when there's like a blue raspberry situation. Yeah. Oh my God. A couple other people did survive, including Jim Jones son Steven. And in a weird turn of events days before the arrival of Congressman Ryan, Stephen and the Jonestown basketball team had left for the capital of Guyana, Georgetown, to play a series of games against the Guyanese national squad. And according to Stephen, his father, Jim Jones, was really nervous and was like, I don't want them to leave because they might turn against the religion.


But Stephen said he believes his mother kind of knew what was going to happen and was trying to help him get out by sending him in the basketball team out of town.


Got it. That's kind of a weird fact.


And there was another lady who was an original member, but she didn't make it down on time, quote unquote, for the suicide and to this to the day she died, she said, I wish I would have been there with my colleagues to have committed suicide with them, end quote.


Holy shit.


So someone out there still believes everything. Yes. But which also sounds like Heaven's Gate, where they still maintain the website and are like, no, my colleagues are out there and I can't wait to join them. Like, same thing.


I thought she was going to be like, you know, starring in the TLC episode of I didn't know how late I was.


I missed my flight. Yeah, but no. OK, so she she's one of a kind regretful.


Yeah. Yeah. So despite this being called a mass suicide, there's a lot of deliberation, understandably so, over whether this is actually a massacre or a mass murder rather rather than a suicide. Right. Because it basically boils down to Jim Jones like forcing this upon his members because he didn't want people to know what was going on inside his community.


Well, some of them were certainly murder, murders, a friend stabbed with it. So. Exactly, exactly. And according to The New York Times, the first trained medical official on the scene was the Guyanese coroner. And he and his assistants examined over one hundred of the bodies. And he found that the adults had all been injected with cyanide in places which they could not have reached without assistance, such as between their shoulder blades.


And many of them had also been shot. So this is over one hundred of the nine hundred. So who knows how many there were that were forced into this.


So that means like on some level, like. Just a tenth of them, at least, kind of knew that this wasn't right and they want to leave. We're against this idea. Yeah, which is horrifying. So one of the first U.S. soldiers named Charles Hough on the scene also reported, having seen many gunshot victims, as well as victims who had been shot with a crossbow, who appeared to have been attempting to flee.


Oh, my God.


And the coroner also felt that children were incapable of consenting to suicide. So that eliminates them from the equation. Understandably so. And they were almost a third of the group. Wow. And so based on these findings, the coroner speculated that the majority of those who died may have been murdered rather than have died by suicide. And so despite Guyana requiring an autopsy for any unnatural death, the Americans insisted that the cause of death was readily apparent. So they didn't need any additional inquiry.


And for a number of reasons, the bodies weren't flown out for up to a week and then the bodies were so decomposed, it was really difficult to they couldn't find any, like, injection marks at that point. So it just was off the table that that was even something they could count on.


So there's some weird speculation as far as like the CIA being involved. So the day that Congressman Ryan was killed, his top aide, Joe Holsinger, who later became head of the DNC, received a White House call detailing the exact number of people killed based on a CIA report from the scene, which is weird because, like nobody arrived until the next morning. So the fact that he had gotten a call that day was very odd.


According to a 1980 Washington Post article, a CIA agent may have witnessed Leo Ryan's assassination as well as the murder suicide. Wow. And then Congressman Ryan's lawyer said he plans to prove that the State Department and the CIA possessed vital information about the Jonestown situation and were aware of the extreme danger involved in Ryan's ill fated fact finding mission. So they believe the CIA knew this could happen.


I believe that the CIA would have gotten involved after the fact because like this was at at that time, like one of the biggest travesties of the country. Right. But like, yeah, for to for them to have already had some sort of intel.


Yeah, that's disturbing. Yeah. And apparently on the death tape, you can hear Jones, Jim Jones himself barking the instruction about 20 minutes in saying get Dwyer out of here before anything happens to him. Hmm. And then he says, I'm not talking to you, Darryl.


I said Dwyre, which I love.


But apparently investigators say the reference was to Richard Dwyre, who was deputy chief deputy chief of the U.S. mission in Guyana, who was part of Congressman Ryan's party to Jonestown. So they're saying that Jim basically was like, OK, get him out of here, keep him safe.


And they think he was in on it or knew about it. And when they asked him, he said if he had worked for the CIA, he said no comment. So that's an odd comment. Shit.


OK, so there's just a lot of weirdness and like obviously conspiracy theories after. So this is kind of just like a.


A summary here about Episode one, you basically your take on this whole thing was that if you were to leave this plane, this planet Earth, the last thing you would want to drink would not be flavored. And I still not concur with you on that one. I also concur with myself.


Even you said I'd like a glass of wine and I. Yeah, a Valium and a glass of wine is how I'd like to go as well.


Well, I do have a I've said it many times, but I'm like, if I haven't drank yet, like my tolerance is so low the like if I knew, if I saw that the apocalypse were like within 24 hours was going to happen, I get obliterated and it wouldn't take very long. And that way I wouldn't have to even like know what was going on.


I sometimes think that I'm like, I would just take a bunch of like I would just be like, where's heroin?


I give it to me. I don't know where is it. I would need something so much. I'd be like, where's a Smirnoff Ice? Is Mike's hard lemonade? Where's my wine cooler? I get it. And for us, they would be the same level of culpability.


I'd be on heroin and you'd be on my side and we'd be goodbye cruel world.


I really do think I like if I found out like I was going to die in 24 hours, I'd be like, I'd see you at the bar then I'm getting fucked up.


I'd be there waiting for you. So don't worry. Anyway, that is the story of Jonestown. And I know this is the longest episode maybe in history, but I think, you know, it was worth it. It's fine. We had to do justice to episode number one.


We really did. I don't think, you know, I think for as long as it was like, look, y'all last week told us you didn't mind the long episode. So this is your fault. No, I think it's an homage of sorts. So. Yeah, but no, I, I, I think you did a great job also in the middle of you telling the story. I remembered the movie that I had probably mentioned last time in the first episode.


I do remember what it was called, but I don't think it was a documentary. I think it was like a movie retelling of it.


Oh, you called it a documentary.


And then you said, well, I guess it wasn't really a documentary, but yeah, no, because the only scenes I remember are like scenes of it actually happening. And what you said that jogged my memory was that people were like getting stabbed with the needles.


And I remember actually what you brought up in Episode one where I hadn't really realized that or in my notes. And you were like, that's you were like, I'm about to blow your mind.


And then he told me that fact.


Well, like a year later, I'm still blowing my own mind because, like, I, I remember that scene of, like, watching people, like, struggling and not wanting it and then like a bunch of people holding them down while another person injected. And they're like, I remember screaming. It was really terrible.


It's all horrific. And I think the biggest travesty is like the number of children that were unwittingly brought here.


And I remember a scene where, like the mom was like talking to her kids and like it pretending like saying like, oh, we're just going to sleep like it was really terrible.


But, I mean, it's just bad.


Well, oh, look, I think last time we we finished out these stories, we said they'll like hopefully our moms listen one day and pretend to like it.


So and then you texted that to my mom and she's like, oh, well, I still don't listen. And I was like, yeah, thanks.


I know my mom doesn't either. She listens. She listens every now and then. And I can tell that she isn't caught up because she'll be like, I didn't know that you're doing this this week.


And I'm like, I did that eight months ago.


But so it's I guess some things just don't change. But it's nice to know that more people than just our moms ended up listening. So first of all, before we close, I do want to say thank you to cast for giving me such a nice, spooky setup. Seriously, it's beautiful.


It's very, very nice. And if you have been to our live shows, which, again, we're trying to keep very, very private, except now you guys know the daddy thing, which probably brings out a lot of older.


Everyone's trying to return their tickets now. But if if you have been to our show or if you've seen pictures of the stage before our show, then you know that this is inspired off of our tour that we are currently not on, but cast a very good job.


So I want to say thank you also thank you to everybody who has made two hundred episodes possible.


Holy shit, I it's so mind blown every time I think about it. There are some people only like this morning who on Twitter are like posting like that they wear on like their Spotify Spotify list and they're like I've been listening since day one. So there are some people who have literally listened to two hundred episodes, not including listener episodes like so. Two hundred fifty episodes. Wow. And so just that means a lot. Thank you to all of you and especially to Farmer Bob makes my heart swell and farmer Bob and thank you.


And I feel very, very honored and blessed that you still are, you know, to be by my side despite all of my floor, my many flaws.


So no, I can't believe I'm in two hundred episodes. We have learned a whole lot about each other and on a whole lot of things I never thought would happen.


Yes. Wow, we just what what a what a story for the grandkids. You know, I mean, if it all ends today, like we still have quite a tale to tell. So if it all ends today, I'll catch you at the bar and I'm getting my wine cooler. I'll go to Bobby Mackey's. It's only 15 minutes from my house and I'm going to go see you there.


And also after this, I'm going to talk to you, a farmer, Bob's phone number.


So, oh, I can't wait for a three way call.


Anyway, thank you, everybody, so much for everything. And that's it.


We'll see you next week for our usual bullshit. Yeah. Damn, I still don't know how to close these out after two hundred episodes.


We still don't. Yeah, it's it's never going to happen, so. All right. Well and that's why we drink.