The around the NFL podcast is the.

Best sports podcast in our hearts. That's it from the Chris Wesseling podcast studio. It's around the NFL. Van Hands is here with heroes Greg Rosenthal, Mark Sessler walking on my way into the studio. Tv screens everywhere less now after the storms took out half of the electronics in our building a couple months ago, but walk by a screen and then they had the draft scroll, you know, with the various mock drafts from our experts. In fact, we have an expert coming in later today in studio tease saw the jets logo. Now the jets on Monday announced they have the, they have gone back. And it's interesting, too, when you start to get old.

Hasn't happened for me yet, but yeah.

And you realize that everything just repeats. So they now, so anyway, it started, their logo is the Namath logo that everybody remembers. Then in the seventies and eighties they had the blocky jets font that we remember so well, Mark, with the jet on top.

Sure.

Then in 90 when parcels got there in 97, 98, they went back to Namath. Then they went to some type of bizarre hybrid during the gase, I call it the gays that are. And now they're back to the seventies and eighties jet with the. So that's what I saw in the scroll. And I was like, that was cool. And then yesterday I also saw the jaguars are celebrating their 30th anniversary.

Wow.

Which is, that will age a man and they will be wearing throwbacks from 30 years ago. And I saw just before we started, Mark, you're mentioning.

Yeah, well, the Cleveland Browns, you know, I guess, remember the Browns had the horrible uniforms and they had to wait five years to get out of them.

Like during our Cleveland was like all over it. Like, forget it. You're from the land.

All these other teams seem to be able to change whatever they want, like every couple years. But Cleveland made a couple little tweaks and they went back to their white face masks, which they had from 75 through 95, right before they moved. So one of their best eras in the eighties there, especially early nineties with Belichick. Then again, though, in 99 through 2005, which was a disaster. But I think we don't talk about those years. No, the white face masks literally look better. I think they're going to maybe adopt like the thinner stripes and there's little tweaks that they're bringing it making even more old.

But we're out of ideas.

Greggy.

Yeah.

When's the last. So the brown, that's a throwback to the jets. I just talked about. When's the last time a team redid their uniforms and it was a completely fresh uniform and it was like, oh, that's, that's cool. Or are we just now we're just probably.

But you're right, none are.

Like, I remember in the bucks, rebranded in the late nineties, it was like, oh, my God, they just totally, everything feels different now. And sure enough, it was under dungey. Well, let's think about that. Maybe we're missing one ATP behind the glass, big funk.

Maybe you got, that's fashion, that's life. That's even, even art has these, like, different cycles. But yes, I always remember when we were growing up watching, like, the old NBA clips of how short Robert Parrish's shorts were in the NBA. And Larry Bird at that time thinking like, wow, that's a ridiculous thing. That will never happen again.

It's completely different.

You watch tennis right now. Like, the shorts are actually shorter than the basketball shorts from the eighties. And it's coming for all of us. It's, it's summer of thigh. And we love that trend. All three of us.

All three of us equally love that trend.

I recently rewatched the 30 for 30 Fab five, and that was a big part of their statement that they were different is like, I'm going to wear clown shorts and everyone else is wearing the spankies.

Shout out to the Jaguars fans, you mentioning that it's the 30th anniversary. I know you guys don't want to hear us. All the browns and jets, we've had it so hard, like, sneaky. A lot of heartbreak now. They've, they've never made. They're still one of the only teams that have never made the Super bowl. They're 30 years old. That, that takes up the vast majority of our lives here in a weird, in a weird run that they've had because they were one of the best teams in the NFL for their first five seasons and been mostly stuck in mediocrity or below, just as an asterisk.

I would note that the Browns were one of the other few teams that have.

No, I get it.

Around for 250.

I get it. I just mean in terms of living humans at this point, you're a 35 year old with the Jags, you're a 40 year old. It's been a lot of losing.

And don't forget, Greg, you especially, although you conveniently have moved this out of your brain. Miles. Jack wasn't down. I was going to say, was there like a heartbreak moment for the Jaguars?

Well, sure. They, they made three conference championships you didn't win one of them.

Right. But when you basically have clinched a conference championship win and the officials and perhaps the league conspire to ensure the Jaguars don't get to go to the Super bowl so the Patriots can go to their 14th Super bowl, as happened without any.

That's exactly, that's exactly what happened.

And so Jags fans out there is the greatest what if in Jags history. Miles, Jack wasn't down. 2017 AFC Championship do you remember that play?

Of course I remember that play. And because he wasn't down, they had the Patriots on the ropes. That defense was special. I don't think they would have won the Super bowl that year anyways, but that defense was special. And the second time they lost to the Patriots in the conference championship because Drew Bledsoe took care of them way back in 19, 90, 96, probably their biggest heartbreak moment was the year they were the one seed and they were, I think were 16 and two or something, and their division rivals, the Titans, came in there and they stomped them. And I think the Jags were decent sized favorites in that game and absolutely.

Are you talking about the Jaguars greatest heartbreak? Yeah, Greg, 20 to ten.

I'm just saying that was their best team. 20. They were one seed.

Jaguars over Patriots 1337 to go in the fourth quarter in Foxborough. Jack picks up a loose ball. He's going into the end zone to make it 27 ten with 13 and a half minutes to play. Instead, they wave it off and then the Patriots go on to win.

No, they didn't want the Jaguar.

It's hard to beat that.

Here's the upside.

What you shouldn't have done is blow a two score lead there in the.

Fourth quarter, one upset to get the AFC title game.

That Jaguars scored some points.

The play caller for the Jaguars, Nathaniel Hackett.

There he is.

I don't know what he's unlearned since, but he had quite a nice run with the Jaguars.

I think he actually, that really helped his career because he was able to say that, well, I made something out.

Of Blake portals every now and then.

Green Bay two seasons later, every now.

And then I feel like, oh, we're underserving certain fan bases. Some teams get talked about more than others. We just gave a great look back on the Jacksonville Jaguars, but we lost.

Most of our listeners.

But that's no, it's a fascinating, here.

Was a heartbreaking, crescendoing, rough moment for you Jaguars fans. Let's spend twelve minutes on it.

Another underserved fan base because of drishgard on my left, the New York Giants. We're going to dive deep a little bit on them.

That is the most our listeners. Please tell us if you disagree with.

That or tell us if you agree.

Yeah. Cause I think if you just did a word cloud, of all the teams that we've talked about in the history of this podcast, and even in the last five years, giants are easily top ten. I would go top six.

Yeah, but you're typically.

Cause you guys love the Giants, but.

You'Re shading negative on them is, I think, where Dan's going.

Okay, we're not talking to said word cloud. Is Greg trying to assassinate the franchise's character or disregard them, disparage them or discredit them, and then us, as journalists, needing to tell the other side of the story.

Balance.

This is a major pivot point in the current, um, structure of giants history. So, um, we might need a certain segment to help us out. Unpack it all with a special guest. And I did mention a special guest coming up. Uh, he is a draft expert. He has been with this company, uh, for many years. He is a good guy all around. Chad Reuter.

Yeah.

Joining us, breaking down his last mock draft. But before that, some news.

Yeah, I mean, first off, I just.

Want to thank God, man.

Go hit my ass.

Whoo. It's my hometown. Listen, I'm very happy for Travis Kelsey, and he's currently dating the most famous woman in the world. Beautiful, talented woman, and he's a major star as a result. In fact, he's about to host a new show on Amazon prime. Are you smarter than a celebrity? Which is kind of funny, because some of his old tweets. That's separate.

That's what makes them a good choice. Yeah.

But I do. I do love me some pre Taylor Travis. And that was from the AFC title game a previous season against the Bengals when. Yeah, nobody. Nobody. The Chiefs could never beat a Joe Burrow team. Well, they did in that game. I'm looking forward to Joe Burrow being back on the scene this year. If you want to talk your.

Talk, your pimp.

See that? That's pre Taylor Travis. He's got a little bit more of that, the white boy flow, and he's, you know, well, and when they say.

That we are the people's podcast, in their hearts, like, we literally lost a contest for best sports podcast to Kelsey's podcast. So. But we're. We're able to still see him as it fair and balance.

An honor to be nominated, Mark.

Just an honor.

Well, true.

Just an honor. All right, let's start with a little bit of draft intrigue because the Washington commanders, picking number two in the draft have obviously interest in a quarterback. And the commanders are doing everything they can to be ready for next Thursday's big decision. And on Wednesday, they welcome in LSU quarterback Jaden Daniels, North Carolina quarterback Drake May, Michigan quarterback JJ McCarthy, Washington quarterback Michael Pennix, all visiting, uh, the facility tonight and tomorrow. Uh, so this was last night and today, according to Burt Breer. Uh, so that's called due diligence. That feels also a little bit, what do we, that feels a little much to pack them and all like that. But who knows how these schedules work. The commanders, if they're, if you ever wanted to, uh, wager something, cause I know that's something people do now the commander is taking a quarterback at number two is off the board. Like, you couldn't. I don't think you could even do that if you wanted to because it's so obvious that's going to happen. It's just, who's it going to be?

It's going to be Jaden Daniels, according to the betting markets that you mentioned and according to Adam Schefter, who does this thing every draft season. I've noticed where he kind of tells you what the picks are going to be, but he doesn't report them. But he'll do something like go on a commander's fan podcast this week or last and say like, yeah, I think you can pretty much order your Daniels jerseys. And it's like, huh, that's interesting. And you look at what he's tweeted out and he's, he, he couches it all as if, like, you're not allowed to report this, but you kind of know it. And then he ends up getting it right. I found with these, these high level ones and he said, oh, Bert. Adam Schefte.

Oh, shafty.

And he's been on the Daniels front. So that's part of the reason why I wanted to bring this up was to me, that is significant that he's become kind of the heavy favorite to go to Washington, which, you know, as a Patriots fan, I'm thrilled about because I'd love to get Drake may in the third spot, but I also just imagine what is it like in the facility when all these four quarterbacks are there?

Are they there at the same time?

I don't really know. Are they all going out to dinner at the same time? That is usually how it goes. That is a, I would love to have a camera on that and just see, see the dynamic.

I would, too, because while outside of the Schefter nugget there, like, Washington's done a nice job of not playing their hand here. And I feel like this is kind of like the next version of that. Like, hey, we're bringing them all in.

But even, even Pennix, who like, in theory they would have to trade back, you would think if they took it, right.

If it is Daniels, then the only thing this does for me that's intriguing is, like, if Daniels is more unlikable or less impressive with the other three guys and, like, someone could somehow supersede him. I don't think that's going to happen, but I find it weird to have all four. Like, would you want to pick a life partner or a spouse and have four people in the same room competing for it? Maybe reality show, but maybe, but I think that's sort of like a z on some level. Like also with quarterbacks, don't you want to take them into a room isolated and like show us how you do this and that? You know, like really learn who they are? Or is it like group think and dinners? We'll see.

I like that we're not even. Caleb doesn't have to go down there. Well, that, and that's thankful. I mean, he probably got a free dinner out of it if he wanted to. But the, even the commanders are like, you know, we understand what's happening there. In other news, by the way, mentioned Patrick Mahomes. He has had obviously an all time start to his career. He's won three Super Bowls. He's won three Super Bowl MVP's for each of those games. He's won two NFL MVP's. He is only 28 years old. And that has led to a lot of talk. Everybody wants to talk all the time about who's the GOat? And it was Joe Montana and then it was maybe Peyton Manning and then Tom Brady. And based on success and statistically also, I mean, I still have to say it's Tom Brady, but Patrick Mahomes start is all time and he has good perspective on it. Here's a quote because he was named one of the world's most influential people of 2024 by Time magazine, which is still hanging in there. Time still thing.

The only time I hear about it is when it's the Time top 100, they have a little party. Inevitably it's someone in sports or someone I follow on Twitter and they're at the top the time 100 party. So they got enough juice that they get them to show up to the.

Party my senior year of college as a big u two fan who was obsessed, especially at that age. Bono was on the COVID of the May 2002 issue. And it's like a big picture with a big, serious bono face with the glasses, one holding open a leather jacket with the american flag inside. And then the headline is, can Bono save the world? And I was like, okay, I'm putting on the door of my dorm for the rest of my life.

Well, the answer was no.

He did actually save the world. That's why you're still here. So.

All right, well, that is news to me. You're breaking that news. I feel like we're in decline on some level.

But he did his best anyway.

So here's what he had to say.

I've had at least one of the top three starts to a career. I'll put it that way.

I love that perspective.

It is. But it's also. That's a little humble because he's had the best start. I don't know how can. When you factor in not just a team success, but also individual success, I don't think anyone touches him.

I just appreciate that he is framing it in a way that is more intelligent to me than how all the sports talk yackers are talking about it. Cause you can only compare. Okay. What's he done in his first six years? It's stupid to compare him to people who've had an entire career. It's just unfair and it's. It's stupid. But he's saying, I've had one of the top three starts and he's done the homework. He mentioned specifically Brady, who individually just wasn't. Doesn't measure close to that level. But I get it. He had two Super Bowl MVP's and three titles. So I think that's why Mahomes is thinking, just hate titles. Montana, who had a very strong start to his career at an MVP in there, has a title in there and some MVP votes, and he throws in Marino. And Marino, to me, is the only one that you could say, would one be close to the same level individually? Cause you look at him and he was either the MVP or AP first team quarterback his first four years. So he was in terms of just ranking your quarterbacks. And I think homes has always been in the top five, usually top three, often the top one, like, and he's been that throughout.

The only one that could even compare would maybe be Marina and, you know, the other one that popped in my mind, and I went to check the AP votes, Sam Darnold Joe Namath. Cause really his Joe Namath basically didn't have a good career after his first five years. But in the first five years of his career he was one of, if not the best quarterback in the league for about five years.

I pushed back on Montana. He didn't cross 20 touchdowns until his fifth season. I know it's a different time, but, but he didn't. He was only 18 and 15 over his first four seasons. He barely played over his first two seasons. And then year three came and he won the Super bowl and all that business.

Top five MVP twice in his first six seasons. But you're right, it's not like Mahomes.

I mean I think Mahomes is, but he's correct to point, to point back in history and like Marino was an.

Outlier looking at it all.

No, I like that. And Marino is the first one I thought of that would be a little off the beaten path. He hit the ground running as a super duper star and went to the Super bowl in his second season when he won MVP and he never got over the hump.

I was like, it's harder to do like what the Chiefs and mahomes have done in this era than back when three or four teams dominated the NFL for like long stretches of time.

Right, Marina? It is crazy, man. He led the league in yards four out of his first six years. Went, you know, had that great first season where he's, but he didn't start the whole season where he was third in MVP in a season. He didn't start the whole season. Then he won MVP. Then he was the first team all probably. And then he was third in MVP. That is, that is just crazy. And he is shout out to the Dolphins fans who always stick up for him because that is it.

How about that? And you heard me giving him love too, by the way. Throwing for 5000 yards and nearly 50 touchdowns in 1984.

Total. Outlier.

Absolutely sane. I'd love to see who the difference between first and second place that year. Marino of the mid eighties. And you're not going to like this in some of your people, Greg. He's what you wanted Justin Herbert to be in his first four years. But he hasn't quite gotten there.

Like oh, he's that special.

He's that guy. He's not that guy. That's that guy.

No one. He's that guy. I would never put him in that category.

But I think the way the talk.

Around Herbert, I don't think that Herbert chatter is as loud right now as it was even last offseason.

I mean, I would have different. I would have liked that. I mean, he hasn't even been close to Mahomes. No one has. But yeah, it's not even a, not even a comp. All right.

In other news, here's a guy who used to be talked about as a top quarterback, but not so much in recent seasons. Deshaun Watson, who is entering his third season with the Browns, suspended the first one, right?

Been there two years.

Two years. Okay.

I mean, vaguely.

He's coming off a season ending right shoulder injury that was very serious. He underwent surgery in November to repair what was a displaced fractured to the glenoid in his throwing shoulder. His throwing program is moving along. He said Tuesday that everything is in full motion. Everything is fluid and motion is really good. The velocity and the strength are really good. So everything progressing, although it's not sure mark yet whether he'll be cleared for OTA. So physically he's not all there. Still absolutely blows my mind that it's not Joe Flacco who's there to fill in. If this needs to take a little longer, it would be James Winston. But Watson is on track, it seems, for 2024.

There's just intense pressure on this working out, and we're two plus years into it. And taking a look at his QBR from 22 and 23, 40.4 and 42.9, which are a full 20 points lower than any other season he played in the league, he's not been the same player. Durability has been an issue, too. It's like if you're going to go make the trade for someone that you did for Deshaun Watson, you want to know he's going to be there present nonstop. He wasn't present the first year for off the field antics, and he wasn't present last year because his body didn't hold up. And in year three, if you don't get a glowing version of this quarterback, like it already is the worst quarterback trade that we can think of in the past of this century, and it has a chance to become a full bloom disaster. And it's crazy for me to think that Kevin Stefanski, who has won two coach of the year awards, which is atypical for a coach that's barely won a playoff game, like he was actually.

In his basement when they won that.

That's the crit.

Yes.

I mean, he's, he's done a good job, especially when Watson's not been in there. He's done a good job coaching. In fact, better I think. But the pressure on him and Andrew Berry and everyone else is immense because the quarterback's not going anywhere because of the money attached to him.

This, maybe this makes you feel better out of nowhere. I had a vision yesterday that Watson, I assume within this vision, although it didn't go into this realm, Watson gets hurt again, that the Browns pick up the phone and they call the Colts who are happy with Anthony Richardson's progress and he's healthy and they go and they get him back, get Flaco. All of a sudden you got the Joker Winston in there, but now let's get an adult in here. Flacco. While Watson idols ways time back in.

IR, like, if that happened in week, say, week twelve, could Flacco win comeback player of the year again?

I would love it. It would be amazing. Can we cut this for when this inevitably happens in October, late October, right around Hollywood.

If Winston comes in there and outplays him, that'll be like the 7th different Stefanski quarterback that's done that.

Let's just see how many can do it.

At this point, the most newsworthy thing.

Tell me how you feel about it.

Tell me how you feel about it. I'd love to see it. I think it'd be a fun fit with Stefanski Watson.

You'll have fun. You won't win a lot of games.

But Stefanski Watson, you know, he might not be fully ready until training camp. Wasn't worried about that. He did kind of thing that annoyed me a little bit. He mentions like, hey, I might actually hurt my shoulder in week three. And so he was kind of throwing out these, and he did hurt his shoulder in week three, but he might have had the injury that ended up requiring surgery, he said in week three. And he was playing through it. So kind of throwing that out there, which I didn't love. But one of the reasons I put this on there is I learned last week, and I meant to mention it here, that Deshaun Watson has a podcast, and Kevin Stansky was a guest of this podcast.

I saw this.

Yeah. And I was like, wait, what?

What is the Sean Watson talking about on his podcast?

Okay.

Like, I would love to know.

I should go listen.

Is it a tech podcast?

Probably. No, it's called QB unplugged. They've got some major issues. I went and checked their feed and it's. It's very inconsistent, but it says there's been quite a number of episodes, I think 13 episodes, except it just in the podcast feed, it skips from episode seven to 13 with no mention, but many months in between. And the Stefanski one, which is up on YouTube, is not in that feed. Cause I was curious. I actually was thinking, hey, maybe I'll listen to a Stefanski Watson podcast, but it's not in the feed, so they've got some tech issues.

Are you sure that, like, his whole life skipped about like five years?

They were during the season last year. So I guess I'm. I'm just saying the podcast seems to be going as well as, as the career and with the Browns, we have.

There are many podcasts featuring current and former NFL players that are worth your while. But when you hear things like the Sean Watson has a podcast, we have saturated the market players. Let's. Let's start, you know, the union maybe should get involved and be like, hey, guys, we're not letting you all do podcasts, right? Because it's annoying to everyone. We're going to knock it down now, going forward, there are only 70 player podcasts, and we will let you know who you, if you're on that list. Fair.

It's countercultural to produce a podcast that's not available. Like, I think that that's the next thing.

I guess it's on YouTube, so maybe it's more. More that I don't know.

All right, let's take a break, and we'll now drill in when we come back on one of the teams that are at the center of next Thursday's round one flash.

Point last.

Month.

Oh, my goodness. At and after dark. This is the one of the most important segments in the show's history because it is a segment that, first of all, is a phenomenon. I mean, people go nuts about it, but it's also, it's what separates us from the pack, because we see things, we see storylines, we see the future of the league in the way that very few people can. And Mark and I are the founders and co creators. Greg, you've come on and really made a lot of advances. And what's Greg's role with the.

I was a production assistant to some degree, but I will say our most.

Recent one introduced, like, the last two or three guests.

Well, I'd say one, but, yes, you had a trench and Eagles episode that I think, in the eyes of the listener, raised. Greg's status within this world.

Right.

Doesn't have to work on the other, outside of the story.

The key is we have a patriots like, humble nature to us, not trying to take who's we.

Louie was a little presumptive there.

All right.

Anyway, hit it. Again, hit it again because we now welcome in our guest, and I'm sorry that he had to listen to that internal conversation and bickering and he's probably thinking, what the hell are they talking about? That doesn't matter. This is the beat, man. For the record, he is a voice that has covered this team, the New York Giants, we're about to talk about since 2011. This is Art Stapleton. Welcome to round the.

What's up, fellas? Thanks for having me. Appreciate it.

Great to have you, Art. And by the way, I want to say it's good to have art. Where are you from originally?

North Jersey. Born and raised and live in New York now. But you know, New York, New Jersey, Bergen county guy. Bergen county guy.

So I grew up in Rockland county and I would drive from Pearl river over the border to Monfel to get cheaper gas. And I just want to say, like, I was listening to your podcast, art, getting ready for this segment today. The all in podcast and all in with Art Stapleton. Gotta get the name in there. I like that. And it's just like, oh, it's nice to hear something that it sounds like me. You know, I like someone that says Cara got married. It's finally, it's good to have a north Jersey tri state area guy that.

Reportedly reportedly came from a coal town. Dan has told us for we've not, you know, I grew up about 20 miles from Den, but he grew up in a coal town, according to his own reporting.

Yeah, that's, I think everyone knows Pearl river is a coal town, art. Right?

Yeah.

Well, you know Pearl river now we know it as, you know, just another town that's near the Palisades mall, just like my town. Rochelle park is right near Paramus and we live near the Garden State plaza. That's from our area. Really all you're about?

Yeah, the summer of 2000. Many memories of the TGI Fridays where I was a server went by Danny. All right, all right, enough. Let's focus. I apologize. This flashpoint focus series is all about getting ahead of the story. And the Giants are a fascinating study here because they have the 6th pick and.

Let'S start where we got to.

Start at the quarterback. All right, so you would say that John Mara and ownership is not going to stand in the way if this team has a quarterback that they love with Daniel Jones, how put the odds on it? Percentage chance they end up coming out of round one with a quarterback in your mind?

Well, if they were sitting at three, I'd say 98 point, you know, nine nine nine 9%. But they're not. So a lot of their quarterback quest, I think, is going to be dependent on what the teams ahead of them do in that situation. And if New England, Arizona or the Chargers want to move, I think they'll look to move. John Mara told the story at the owners meetings, and I'll try to keep it as concise as possible. But was just the idea back in 2004 when his father, Wellington, had to be convinced that it was time to move on from Kerry Collins and draft a quarterback and make a trade up and earn a quarterback. The general manager at the time and Tom Coughlin, the first year head coach at the time, loved Eli Manning and they wanted to make a trade up. And John Mara recalled having to convince his dad, look, we know you love Kerry Collins, but we have to make a move. And they ended up making that trade. They let Kerry Collins go, Kurt Warner came in, and we all know NFL and Giants history, what happened, you know, that season, and Kurt ended up getting benched with a winning team.

But I think John Marrah is kind of in the position of his father from that year, and he needs to be convinced that, you know, the guy he loves, Daniel Jones, the guy, he said a couple of years ago that, you know, they've done everything to screw him up. Well, it gets to a point where as badly as a guy may have been screwed up, you just have to move on. And that's where the Giants are right now.

To follow up on that, who do you think, like, in terms of pie is making these decisions? Is really calling the shots? Because to me it's an awkward situation. Joe Shane didn't draft Daniel Jones. And how desperate do you think Joe Shane is, their GM and Brian Dable is obviously involved and offensive coach. And how much does the Jones negotiation last year play into it? Because I look at it and it's not like they have extra draft picks or anything. And it's not like they have a roster that is, you know, has a lot of talent at every position. They have a lot of needs. Like how much do you think Joe Shane, and if he's making the decision, is willing to, to give up future resources for a team that has a lot of holes?

It's a great point, Greg, and I just think that from Shane's perspective, and one thing, you know, that I've gotten to learn, and I'm still getting to learn. I mean, we've been through general managers and coaches here covering the Giants. I feel like I'm on my 17th head coach and 15th general manager. But Shane believes in the process. You know, he believes that, you know, if he gets his process right, he'll deal with the results. Now the results have been hot and cold since he's gotten here going into year three. But that contract, I don't believe that that contract or Daniel Jones's extension was forced on Joe Shane. I think, you know, he made the call as well. You know, so he has to own the idea that if he, if it's time to move on from Daniel Jones, he just made a different decision last year. But the reality is that they did structure the contract. Now, they're not out clean next year with Jones, but they certainly have an out to the point where I think it's $22 million in dead money. We can talk about the cap and whether it's valid. I think this is a call for Shane to make and they know what it was like to be up in Buffalo and they know they're in the top ten.

And if they're in the top ten next year and a year after, they might be looking for jobs. And I'm not saying that he's going to make a pick based on keeping his job, but he's got to make a call. Now, if what they believe is a great quarterback class, if they have an opportunity to get one of their guys, they've got to pull the trigger and then see what happens after that.

And, you know, I mean, from where we stand now, next year's QB class is, you know, considered lesser by a, by a bunch. And if you're Brian Dable and Shane, it's like, will you even be here next draft season? If you falter this year, things go south. I looked at your mock and it was an interesting one because you got all the wide receivers going up top. Like the Cardinals stay home take neighbors, the Chargers take odins a then the Giants at six take Drake May and that, that would be a surprise that all that occurred, I think. Cause I kept keep thinking one of these teams is going to trade down, but let's say it was a chance to take one of the big wideouts or JJ and McCarthy. Like do you think the Giants are cool with the top for. I'd say the top second through fourth quarterback, whoever it is or is it like one of the they let they want to see one of them particularly fault on. Do you have information on like who the, who they think fits their system the most?

Which guy currently in Washington right now with the commanders do they like the most?

Well, I think, you know, Mark, it's a great point. I mean, it's all a guessing game, right? I mean, we're trying to be educated. You try to make calls. You try to know what, what teams are thinking. I think Shane has done a great job of keeping everybody guessing. You know, there, there are 30 visits. They've brought in May and McCarthy and they had workouts with those guys and they brought in Daniels and they were on campus with Pennix and they even had Caleb back at the combine when, you know, just, you know, maybe there was that 1% that he wasn't going to Chicago. They've had all the wide receivers in. I think the McCarthy thing is, you know, it's about traits, right? It's about what you can't see. It's about a leap of faith that everyone's saying, you know, some coaches will see, I can turn this guy into something special.

That sounds Mac Jonesy, by the way.

Speaker zero. That sounds Daniel Jonesy. I mean, because that was a guy who was not like a consensus second quarterback in that class, but they thought they could see something others didn't.

It's true. You know what? But, and I, I would say that you trust Pat Sharmer. Pat Shermer got one year out of Daniel Jones. It turns out to be, you know, Daniel Jones's high point really set up his rest of his career with the Giants until that playoff run. But look, the, the cornerstone of this, of this front office, the two guys are Shane and Dable, come from Buffalo and they went through, they lived the Josh Allen experience and it's a lot easier now to look at it and say, oh, well, he was their guy. He was their guy, but it wasn't the popular guy. And I really think that they trust dable. And to an extent, Kafka and Shay Tierney, who's gotten a bump now as the quarterbacks coach, that they can bring in a guy. Look what they did with Tommy DeVito last year. If we get a guy in that we believe in, we could turn him up and turn a JJ McCarthy or Drake may into the best quarterback in this, in this draft. I don't know if they can, but I think that that's kind of some of the insight that I've gotten from the Giants and that, you know, just because we think JJ McCarthy has the potential of being the number two guy in this class is not going to shy, we're not going to shy away from taking him.

And, you know, coincidentally this morning, again, it speaks to an art. Apologies, the, the forward thinking nature of this segment, flashpoint focus, naturally, that NFL Network was airing Super Bowl 46 this morning between the Giants and Patriots. Second and eleven.

Welker, you got to pull it in, bro.

Four minutes the play, Greg. One time out for the Giants and Pat's up to. They're leaving that clock down. There's going to be a minute left on the clock and Pat's up five at the very least. And as makes that catch, as Giselle.

Said, you know, my husband, my ex husband at this point, like, can't throw.

The ball and catch it.

I think the take that I've said the most on this podcast that you've just said you don't believe me for some reason is that that's easily the most painful loss in Patriots history, easily outweighs the oh seven.

That's a whole other time conversation.

We digress.

Yes. And then the turkey shot to beat all turkey shots from Eli to Manningham. Can we fly up art's tweet this morning? This is the type of production we have here. Art, you thought of something, you fly it up and then we have it. Art stabled in holy hell. This is going to be the craziest New York Giants draft on days one and two that I think I will have covered on the beat. The mood swings will be epic.

Good engagement with this tweet at a pop.

Yeah. Art's respected. He goes back a long way. The team and the fan base trust him. And I want to ask the question, mood swings, that's a good way to get into it because, listen, as a Jets fan, art, like, I struggle with the knowledge that the Giants are a Tiffany franchise and they're led by ownership that you can trust, that know how to handle situations. Overall, however, I think it's fair to say that since the turkey shot at Manningham and Ahmaud Bradshaw falling into the end zone and then four days later coming out to Culver City and me interviewing him and, and it being very clear that Ahmad Bradshaw had not slept or stopped partying since that game, I digress once more. But since then, there's been a lot of nothing. And I know the, the way Daniel Jones closed two years ago and then they, they beat a bad Vikings team in the playoffs and all that. That kind of satiated the fan base a little bit. But ownership, like, where is the patience level? Where, where do you get in terms of internally where the Giants are? Because it has been now a pretty cold period, especially for a team that's really had a fair amount of success in the past 30, 40 years?

Well, I think, you know, the impatience really went through the last three head coaching regimes. I mean, this is the fourth head coach since Tom Coughlin left the franchise in 2015. You know, it wasn't that long ago, right? I mean, it seems like it, but, you know, I just think that ownership believes in this front office. I really do think that, and I do think that the Giants want to get back to the point where they're not changing everything every two, three years. That being said, it does come down to the results. And if they completely flop again this year, and we saw all this talk a couple of months ago, the idea of what if, what if Bill Belichick is on the market? Would the Giants blow out this regime and bring Bill back home? And right now I think it's ridiculous. But I've seen ridiculous covering this team since 2015. So, you know, look, there's pressure. What level of pressure? I don't think the ownership is looking to get guys out of here. I think John Mara believes in Joe Shane. He likes Joe Shane, the general manager, being the frontman of his organization.

I think they, like Brian Dable. I think they, they don't believe that last year the team quit on them. You know, ultimately, it matters when you move down the line. I mean, guys don't get into Canton because their teams didn't quit on them. They get into Canton because they won. And I think that's kind of where they're at. So the hot seat, the seats are as hot as what they make them. And this year, I don't believe ownership is looking to make changes at the end of the season, but they weren't looking to get rid of Joe Judge three days before the end of the Joe judge season. But because they had to look for a general manager, the way judge became toxic, in a sense, they had to get rid of him. You know, I don't believe they went into 2017 looking to get rid of Ben McIndoe, but the team imploded. The locker, he lost the locker room, and they had no choice but to blow everybody out. So we'll see. But I think ownership is confident that Shane's history and what he's shown to this point and how he'll grow as a front office executive, uh, will turn this team in the right direction.

How quickly that happens, we'll just have to wait and see.

When do you think the last time that John Mara and Bill Belichick spoke on the phone, when did that occur?

And also, like you said, you right now see it as ridiculous? I'm curious like, why you see it that way.

What, Bill Belichick.

Is Belichick returning? Returning? The idea of, I think.

I think the idea that everybody watched him in New England and saw how that went downhill. I mean, you know, what would Bill be willing to do? Would Bill be willing to come in and, you know, work with Joe Shane in a front office or would he have to pick his handpicked guy? Or would Bill want to be the GM and be the head coach because that failed? Or would Bill just want to coach the team? There's, there's different levels of a return of Bill Belichick. As far as the phone calls from John Mara and Bill Belichick, I'm guessing they kind of laid low after the whole Brian Flores, Brian Dable. Wrong Brian Texas chain from Belichick to Brian Flores. But I could tell you, look, Belichick's heart, there will always be a piece of his heart with the Giants, and it will always be a piece of the Giants with Bill Belichick. I don't believe that going into the draft, that John Mara is sitting there saying, you know what? If this fails, I'm bringing Bill back. But in a couple of months, if things really don't go the way they expected it to go and Bill places a call with his intermediaries, I can't tell you that that's not going to happen.

We're talking about the greatest coach in NFL history, and there's a piece of that. I think that the Giants, it would appeal to ownership, but not many people other than John Marra are in that organization, left from when Belichick was the defensive coordinator with parcels as well. You know, Belichick is as much the guy who lost the two Lombardies that are sitting in the lobby of the facility, that he is the defensive coordinator that helped deliver the first two Lombardi. So that's kind of the way the Giants are. It really does come down to John Mara and Steve Tisch to an extent, who is the co owner. He has a relationship with Bill Belichick as well.

Yeah, there was reporting on ESPN, we might hit this a little more tomorrow about Belichick, but that he kind of had an eye on all these NFC east teams, essentially the Giants, Eagles, Washington that next year, and that he, that he was willing in Atlanta to not be in charge of personnel, which was an interesting nugget if that was true. He's willing to work with their GM and he still didn't get that job here. Last one, for me at least, is just like there are a lot of different scenarios. Just, they have so many needs. Like, do you think if there's two good, like, number one wide receivers available at six in the top three quarterbacks are gone? And I'm including May, who to me, you know, is the most, Josh Allen, like, and maybe has the highest ceiling other than Caleb Williams, say they're all gone. You know, when you look at this roster and what they think their, their needs are, like, how do you think they'll, they'll evaluate, you know, having to, like, can they feel like they leave this draft? I guess is my larger question without a quarterback, if they just don't think the value is there at six versus, like, forcing it, like, like you could argue they did with, with Jones at the same position five years ago.

I completely get the sentiment and I agree with you. I, you can't just look at this draft and say, we have six picks. We have to get a quarterback with one of them. I mean, what does that mean? You know, right. You've got coaches who here, you know, you made the call last year to have Daniel Jones here, you have Drew lock here. You have an undrafted guy in DeVito who, you know, at this point, you know, it was much, much more of a fan favorite than he was a future, you know, solution at quarterback, you know? Look, I think that's why they've done the homework. You know, give credit to Garofolo and Rappaport with the, you know, they had visits over the weekend with Bo Nicks and Spencer Rattler. I mean, if, if dable looks at, you know, Knicks and says, look, I love this kid. We saw him at the senior bowl. He came in here. You know, I think that a year under, under our coaching that we can get him to be a, you know, a top 15 quarterback in this league. You know, maybe they look to, to use their early second round pick.

Maybe we have to move up a little bit. Maybe they like Rattler right there in the second round or even, you know, moving up from their third round pick. I do think that there are guys, Shane made a comment a couple of weeks ago, Greg, that you're going to get quarterbacks from all different places in this draft. And it was kind of interpreted like, you know, we know the top guys, but we may be looking for guys who might be developmental guys. You know, they have a guy in Daniel Jones who money wise on the books. You know, they're not lying when they say they hope to start the season with him in week one because they, they have an idea that they want to develop a quarterback a little bit similar to the way the Giants did no. Four with Eli. But the reality is it's just going to have to depend on how their board breaks and how aggressive they're going to be. They don't have eleven picks, as you mentioned. They can't just all of a sudden start throwing picks around and saying, you know what, we need to get this quarterback.

And if they do, they better be right because if they're not right on the quarterback, especially if they get rid of assets to get a quarterback, they're going to be leave themselves short at other positions and that is only going to hurt them on the field this year. And do you have ownership buy in? Well, you know, I believe they do to a point, but if they go against what ownership wants and ownership says, you know what, we believe in you. But if it fails and fails miserably, then you got a problem.

Art Stabledon, thank you very much, sir. And check out all of arch giants coverage, the record there in North Jersey, NorthJersey.com, comma, of course, his podcast as well, if you want the latest on the Giants. All in with Art Stabledon. Thank you very much, good sir. And shout out to the rocket.

You got it, guys. Appreciate it.

Thanks.

There he goes. Art Stapleton. And it just did make me think, first of all, they really are, the mood swings are set up for the giants because unless they make an aggressive move up the board, which I, you know, you never know, but they kind of are, they have to wait it out and they have to see what, what is presented in front of them and it could lead to a new quarterback. Or Greg, like you said, they could see how they move back.

You know, they could see what the Patriots would take. It really feels like that's a logical partner.

It's, the nerves are high because it's hard to really, you know, what's happening. The first two picks, obviously, but then, like how these teams, and it's funny, this is how the draft and this is how this siege gets made, your entire organization's future is kind of hinging on these other teams in front of you and decisions they make unless you try to put it in your own hands and move up the board. But that's very costly and on the bell check thing.

Mark, that was the first question, like when I was writing down my curiosities for, well, I was like, I just like, come on, this makes too much sense.

I remember a football life, and then I just looked it up real quick. It was actually the series premiere of a football life at the NFL Films NFL Network show. And it started with a two parter on Belichick. And it always stuck in my mind when Belichick goes to old giant Stadium before they tore it down and he's staring at the locker room and he gets wistful and nostalgic and he actually gets just emotional, choked up talking about how important this building was and all the great memories and what it meant to him to be involved with those giants teams, even if his relationship with Bill Parcells wasn't always so hot. So it would not, I would think he would be very interested in the right situation. And then it becomes about the Maras and the Tisches, whether they are, and again, the good thing for Giants fans, you guys overall, like, they have strong leadership. Like, are there reverse gears in their tank? Will they get sucked in by this? Or will they look at it the way other people seem to be looking at Belichick as a depreciated asset at this age?

Speaker two.

I think Belichick's Q rating is going to just continue to climb towards next offseason. I just do, because I think suddenly you're like, you're going to have teams that have, you know, Joe Fabitz at head coach. It's like, wait a minute, we could have had, or could have Belichick. And like, I, you've talked about the Belichick biographies and they're great. But the parcels one, too, does an incredible job of describing how the parcels, Belichick relationship came to be. And I think parcel or Belichick was one of the most famous coordinators of that era when sometimes coordinators were hidden.

Absolutely.

Oh, the most.

Absolutely. Like, I mean, he, when he, when he got the Cleveland job, like, you know, right after winning that second Super bowl with the Giants, like, I was immediately, I immediately bought in and was just fascinated by the concept of who he could be and what he was, and he did it in Cleveland. And then the team goes, but it's like, Belichick should not be an unattractive option. And I think if you're a Giants fan and if you're the Giants media corps and Belichick comes back to the New York Giants, like, what else makes more sense poetically for the National Football League?

It's a fun little backdrop to this NFC season. Cause as art points out, it all comes down to win losses. Like, I don't care who the quarterback is, what the scenario is, what happens if the Giants win nine games with Brian Dable this year? They're not going to fire him, like.

And they should, but if they win.

Six games, they might, you know, it's like that's just how it works and I think that's how it's going to work for the Cowboys, possibly the Eagles and the Giants. So it's these three teams, these big franchises, and apparently, you know, Belgic's kind of eyeing those three teams.

I like football season, all the things that go with it.

And don't forget, like the east coast. And I think Giants might be, might come out of draft day disappointed. We'll see. But I just.

Or they could be flying because the board fell the right way.

I think they're going to. I think the most likely outcome is what I asked art about, which is like, actually Daniel Jones probably is going to be their quarterback and they're going to try to do as much as they can. And they've had a good offseason, they got Brian Burns, they changed the offensive line, like as much as they can to get high level talent around Daniel Jones because the quarterback, it just, well, doesn't fall right for them, but we'll see.

And the assumption, even if they did get a quarterback, the assumption Dalen Jones is out of the building, no, he's a sunken cost for them. And if they choose to go the route of 2000, 420 years ago where you had a veteran start and then a rookie come in, you might see Daniel Jennings and a new guy, you.

Know, it's kind of sad, though. You know what that means. And it sounds like they're going to take. I know where you're going with it somewhere.

Yeah.

Tommy DeVito will be out of the building.

Oh, I thought you're saying Drew Locke. Yeah. Because they have Locke in the building. Yeah.

He's guaranteed some money, though.

Yeah.

I don't think Locke's going anywhere.

That would be DeVito.

Doesn't work on, like, the Arizona Cardinals. Like, there's a miss. We're not aligned there.

And as many people have told me, um, the other thing to remember about next January when the cycle begins anew at coaching, Bill Belichick is spending this year learning how to be a head coach. And once he learns, like, how do you be successful in the NFL? He relearns that. Like, his brain is firing off the synapses. Everything's working again.

He'll be, you know what I like about this? It's like, this is very, like Hulk Hogan, macho man, where like, after spending a decade of you kind of annoyed with Belichick and everything that he had produced the fruits he'd produced. Now you're, like, backing him, unlike anyone else I know.

Well, I never not. I respected the man.

I don't doubt that's where this is rooted. It costs you a lot of it's.

Oh, a lot.

He caused you a lot of pain, and you're showing, oh, and a lot.

Of salt being rubbed in. Like, he loved rubbing the salt into the wounds of jets fans.

And that you have that Clemson football over there.

I got it. Built that orphanage. It burned down to the ground. You can't disprove that, Greg. That's why you're so mad. You can't disprove that I flew down to the Clemson area and rebuilt an orphanage from ashes.

I'm starting to believe it.

Literally, on the football, it says that the conference that you contributed to, that you have no idea what it was, was in Los Angeles and is like, you know, the future billionaires of America memorized nothing.

Yeah, but here's the thing. See, it's not that hard. I think from another angle, Dan reached out to Clemson, and, yes, how can I help? Speaker one said, put something in Oculus on the football. Don't let them know what I actually did, because that's. Don't let them know. Hide your.

Also, this could be last year's thank you, football. I get another one, potentially.

As if you've stopped working for the Clem scenario.

The orphanage ball is coming. And by the way, get your hands off there. That's Debo Sweeney's autograph on it.

Most valuable partner. Dan hands this.

Thank you.

Does not know. Can you show the camera?

Can't take that away.

Sure.

I mean, can we get a tight shot on that?

Here we go.

Here.

And. Yeah, I can't read it off the camera, so I'm going to turn around. It's thank you for aiding in the professional development of our scholar athlete and providing a life changing career experience during our 2023 Los Angeles Business week trip. So I don't see orphanage. I don't see Carolina. I mean, it's amazing to me, as someone who won this prestigious, most valuable partner award, that you don't even know what freaking state it's in. And I'm happy that you helped the young Clemson students, me, figure out how to, like, take advantage of workers.

You're a big man about it. But I'm gonna. I didn't actually give my formally, my thank, my acceptance speech of the football. Thank you to Clemson. Thank you to Debo Sweeney. Thank you to the everyone that needed me in a big spot. And I delivered. It says right here, greg, a life changing experience. And I've been involved with a few.

So I wouldn't normally bring this up, but I actually remember the day that the Clemson contingent came through the newsroom. It was one of those days when I was in the newsroom early and I actually talked to three or four of them because they were asking about television and television production. And then right next to my cubicle, on the right side of my cubicle, glass walls, it says, Dan Hans this. And I think they meant to send it to me because I actually.

Developing news, like a breaking news, develop a.

Bunch of them asking about how, like, they were setting up for an NFL Network show and like, a bunch of.

People, oh, you deserve a football.

I'm just saying you do, too, no doubt because of your other tasks down in the Clemson area. But I would like to. I'm gonna start my own.

According to some NFL media sources very close to the situation, there is reporting that Mark Sesler is the man they actually meant to give the. I love it.

Your attempts are my attempts.

This is the man who helps the kid.

It's just I believe everything.

Remember, I'm not claiming that to be the case.

I'm saying, well, it would explain something.

It is an unusual occurrence.

The one person who definitely doesn't get or deserve a ball is the guy that's crowing the most about it. So read into that.

Oh, I don't want to look, look.

At the, look at the performance of.

The Clemson football team since you spoke to him.

Now you're hitting out. This is very on brand. Greg Clemson, you'll fight back and you got great leadership at the top. Let's take a break. And when we return, Chad Reuter on the NFL draft. All right, welcome back. Spoke with art stabled and breaking down the Giants and a very interesting path they have next week's draft where they pick, you know, all their different picks. What do they have? Six or seven picks, whatever. But then there are men like Chad Reuter for NFL Media. He's been with the company since 2011, who, when he drops his final mock draft, it will have every single pick. What is it? 260 this year. Where are we at?

Yeah. 257.

257. That drops on Friday, and we're going to get a little sneak preview of it. So, Chad, welcome back to around the NFL.

Thank you, gentlemen, for having me on. It's a pleasure to be here.

This draft class, you've been doing this since 2000 now. So what are your thoughts on this draft class? Where do you give it a grade. The overall class, it is a bish.

There's some great positions, some not very deep positions, and it's fun when there's quarterbacks, you know, look, I love offensive linemen. That's my favorite position. Not just because I'm a big dude, but when that's part of it. Well, absolutely. One time I was at a Packers training camp, and Larry Bechtel, their longtime offensive line coach, saw me on the sideline watching and he looked at his guys and said, hey, you guys better do this because you got guys on the sidelines there who can step in for you and play, you know, so, like.

So a writer in the stands.

Yeah, absolutely. Exactly. But no, when there's quarterbacks, it's just more fun. And I think it's going to be a lot of fun, a lot of intrigue. And so I'm really looking forward to it.

You're not messing around with the quarterbacks. The one of the picks that really stands out. I mean, first of all, your answer to the Giants question was they, they trade up to four and they take McCarthy. So they trade up with Arizona and end up getting McCarthy. But the thing I wanted to start with was you had Minnesota City at eleven, didn't get the trade up, that they take Bo Nicks, that you would think that there could be that much appreciation for Bo Nicks. And the two most logical teams in my mind would be the Vikings or, or the Broncos. That, that he could go that high.

Absolutely. If you look at Bo Nicks, he is very much like Kirk Cousins. And if they want that similar type of guy, he's right there.

Although, but Kirk Carson was like a fourth round pick. You don't usually take those guys that early, but it would be a wild, it would be a wild thing to take a guy like that.

And it's interesting, I remember because we were, when cousins got picked, I remember going back into the culver and we had kind of the debris from the draft. Right. We sitting around in a room and people were saying, why would the, why would Washington take, why would Washington take rg three and then take her cousins? And people were sending it and I said, hey, Kirk Cousins was second round value. They got him in the fourth round. It was a good move. And the room went silent. Like I, you know, just said something about somebody's parents or something. So I think I.

You're known to do in fairness. Well, yeah, look, you'll bury a parent. You don't give a.

You do it once, you do it once. And then people think you do it all the time, right?

Yeah.

So, so he was viewed as a more than a fourth round pick. And I think, and I think just the demand for the position. Minnesota, look, Sam Darnold, really solid player. They cannot just roll out. So I think you put in Sam Darnold and a guy like Nicks and, you know, they work together and get it done.

I think the Chargers fans would come out of this process absolutely thrilled if what you suggest happens, happens because they have a Marvin Harrison falling to them and all this business, like, oh, the Chargers won't draft a wide receiver because they are going to only have like two on it. No, that, that would be amazing. It's a need and it's also the best player in the draft, arguably. But then I love this, too, because I kind of just love organic fits where you love. No matter what you think of the player, he's going to be maximized where he goes. And Blake Coram, Michigan's running back, going to the Chargers to Harbaugh in round two. I think that is it. Like, I love draftings like that. And I even, I think on the show we talked about, like, stuff we wanted to see happen. I had that, too. And so is, do you think that Harbaugh is like, no matter what, willing to go do that with the second round? Is he hoping that he just falls to him?

Speaker zero?

Yeah.

Oh, I would think so. And, you know, he may not. A lot of people don't have Blake Quorum as a top 40 pick and he's five eight. I understand that. But, you know, the Chiefs took Ceh at the end of the first round. Also another five eight guy. I didn't like that pick, but I love quorum as a, as a player, he does everything. Pass protection. Like, he doesn't pass protect, like a guy who's five eight. I mean, and he does everything. And coming off the knee injury a year ago, he wasn't even his most explosive self. And we've seen guys really turn it on after that year. So I think he'll be even more explosive than he was this year in the NFL if everything goes right. And I think harbor, you know, was so effusive as praise of JJ McCarthy and, and I think he's going to feel the same about quorum. And honestly, like, if he doesn't pick quorum, he could end up going all the way down to the Ravens to play for John Harbaugh at the end of the second round. So those are the two kind of the two spots for quorum, sometimes we.

In this ramp up to the draft start to fall in love with an idea or a thought and then it turn, it turns very surfacey when you look back. Oh, it didn't play out that way at all. And that's what everyone seems to be doing with. Oh, Harbaugh will definitely, I'm talking about Jim will take an offensive lineman cause he loves his dogs and he loves to run. But as you point out, going to get a playmaker and potentially a truly special one like Harrison to stretch the field. I mean, that helps the running game as well. So that, that checks out in a different way.

Exactly. Right. And, and don't forget that Harbaugh had to sit there and watch Marvin Harrison at Ohio, you know, beat him. Yeah, I mean, he had some pretty good games and I think he knows the kind of special player he'll be getting.

I saw you put neighbors at 13, falling all the way to the Raiders. I'm sensing as we get closer to the draft, a lot more of the people in your neck of the woods. The draft Knicks are projecting neighbors to slip that Odunsey maybe goes ahead of neighbors and that maybe neighbors isn't as big of like a top five six lock as we thought maybe a week or two ago. Where is that coming from? Info, just your film tape. Like what, what's going on there?

So I think all I know is I've been doing this long enough where the, where people think the top ten guys are not going to end up being the top ten picks. It's just we know that. And neighbors, there's no questions about Odin. Say he is a solid player. He is Mike Williams for the Chargers. For me, he's, he's really just a solid player that you know what you're going to get with neighbors, I'm not sure. And he's so much like OBJ. He's so much like him. And OBJ went 12th and, and those are the kind of things that I just look for. Hey, hey, if neighbors does not go top six, where does he. This could, this could be what happens. And, you know, and the other thing is, I'm not going to project like eight trades or anything, but if he starts falling down, obviously somebody might get in the mix there too for him.

But you projected a lot, though. It was spicy. And you always put like what the specific one is. You had the Colts trading up for Bowers. Yeah. And then you, you give the exact.

Trade that it would be.

It would be Bowers and a third in exchange for 15th overall, a second and a fourth. That's a lot for a tight end, but that would be fun for the Colts.

Yeah. You know, he's more than a tight end. I, I think he's the best player in this draft regardless of position, and I won't be shot. I honestly won't be shocked if the Chargers take him at five or if they can work out a trade with the giants for that one spot to get that. I think he does everything. I think if you get a guy in the George Kittle to Travis Kelsey Realm, he's much more than just a tight end speaker.

Two.

I think the Chargers are meeting with him as we speak or very, very soon to now you have another trade? Because I like looking at the two teams that don't have picks in the first round, the Panthers and the Browns. The Panthers you think would be sitting there. We need players, but they trade the pick to the Raiders who take. You have Michael Pennix junior falling all the way to the 33rd pick. I think a lot of people feel like there's been this run on quarterbacks. You got the Broncos, the Raiders, in your world, won't they move up?

But like someone's got to fall.

So, yeah, this, so you, you think this could, this could happen? Pennix goes all the way to round two.

Look, last year a lot of people thought Henden Hooker and Will Levis were going to be first round picks and they were not. And that happens. I mean, would I be surprised if the Raiders move up into the 32nd spot in the first round to get them? No, I wouldn't be surprised at that at all. But Carolina does not have enough picks and they need a lot of players and the previous administration kind of left them bereft of draft capital. So they're going to be looking for a deal like this and if they can find it, they're going to take advantage of it. And so I think this makes a lot of sense. And look, Michael Pennix lost parts of four seasons at Indiana to injury. You don't see a guy like that going in the first round very often. If it was a one off, that's fine, but, you know, I think that's the thing. And with him and his really talented, I mean, he, if you put an offensive line around him, you give him the weapon, he's going to hit him and he's a very talented thrower, but there's going to be questions about his abilities, knee and shoulder.

So there you have a trade, another trade in the first round. Both teams intrigued me. So you have the Rams and Chiefs doing business. And I love that you're. You think, you think it's very possible that the, that Les need goes to his dresser drawer and pulls out that f. Them picks t shirt again.

Absolutely.

And for another year to continue the streak that dates back to 2000 after 2016, will not have a first round pick. That's interesting to me. So, but let's start first with the Chiefs, who to me, this is the one that, as a layman, I still feel like the thing I'm really confident about is the Chiefs make a charge up the board in the first round to get a wide receiver, especially now with the Rasheed rice situation. Travis Kelsey, another year older, not a lot of depth in general. You have a. Moving up to the middle of the first round. Let's talk about that.

Yeah, I mean, I think Xavier worthy out of Texas is a perfect fit for them. I know that they signed Hollywood Brown, but look, worthy is very worthy of the.

Nailed it.

And he's an explosive player.

You just stand on your analysis right there, like, go blank and wait for us to change.

Exactly right. Exactly right. No, but look, he's, he's not just the guy who ran a fast 40. I mean, that's obviously one, one of the strengths, but he can catch the ball in short areas and make people miss. He can get down the sideline. I don't think safeties in college understood how fast he was. Cause they would, like, get, try to get towards the sideline and then he'd be gone. And I think when you add that to the Chiefs off, the Chiefs won two Super Bowls, but, like, you know, they were not happy with how things played out on offense. Right. And that's the kind of difference maker that they'll go up and get. The other thing that I. If you guys remember, when the Lions went up to get Jameson Williams, they went from 32 to twelve to go get him. And if Brock Bowers gets into that area, I would. I'm really curious to see if they would go get him or if, even if they think of worthy that highly.

That's, that's where, like, fit is everything, because I do think worthy is more dynamic than people are giving him credit for as, like, a real player. Like, he's a much smaller player than Khadari as Tony, but I think could do some of the things that they were hoping could arius Tony could have done now that they've totally given up on that. Like, if he lands with the team like the Chiefs, then you can see him being like, quite ze flowers like, but maybe with more speed, which is like. But if he ends up on the wrong team and then he winds up being a bus, I think that's an amazing fit. But I really do have to say I found one of your picks ridiculous and just questionable with pick two. Thanks for coming on with 235. You had the Seahawks taking tight end McAllen castles.

Yeah.

Chad was drunk and hurt when he reached.

I know, right?

For McAllen castles to go top 235. You're going to get a lot of pushback.

I feel, you know, look, you got to take chances with this. I can't be the same as everybody else who put castles at 251. You know, I have to take some chances.

And it must be a bizarre process at the end of this seven round thing of just. Yeah.

What is happening at the end there? You just kind of like, well, you've seen that probably deep team information that you're leaning on in the 7th, you.

Know, in Ted Lasso when he's playing darts against the mean guy. That I can't think of the name of. No, look, you know the play. You get your population of like 300 some guys that are in the mix, and you're got team needs. You've got workout, you've watched them for the past three, four years, and you try to make some interesting ads, and at that point you're like, okay, what team needs two edge rushers? What team needs two cornerbacks? And so where are these? And you just try to get as many guys, and then you look for the off the radar guys weren't at the combine. Like, 30 guys who weren't at the combine will probably get picked. So you have to take all that into consideration.

Circling back, the idea of the Chiefs getting Bowers makes so much sense, both because think about the two tight end set there. But also Kelsey at 33 with a year or two left, you get to learn under Kelsey in the building and then have a locked and loaded potential superstar to replace him, that there's just a lot of logic there that checks out.

Yeah, I would.

I would love to see that kind of huge move. And, you know, I think to stay on top, you can't just do the status quo. You can't. And you have to make big moves. And they're so good at scouting later in the draft that they can afford to, you know, take some chances. And so, like, again, Xavier Worthy is not out of the conversation either. At like that 1112 area, if you remember, John Ross went like 9th and he was not. He was not nearly the prospect right.

It'S a great point that you make about everyone thinks they have the top ten, and it becomes very consensusy where, like, there's so much agreement and then it never happens that way. Like, even guys who are, now, you look back at, you're like, oh, yeah, Drake London, of course, he was the number eight pick. It's like no one had that. No, absolutely no one had that. And he was like a very well known prospect, like, but literally no one had that. And that happens all the time with these, these guys at the top. Fun. Mock that one comes out when? On Friday.

On Friday.

One little note. Bills fans are not going to be happy at the 28th pick that they don't go wide receiver, they go defensive player. Edge Marshawn Nealon.

Yeah.

And Brandon Bean's already come out and said, look, we're not reaching for a player. And I mean, I thought of a bunch of different ways of them moving up to get a guy, but they're not. They move up, but they only give up, like a fourth round pick or something like that. If somebody falls into the early twenties, then, then maybe they go get them.

Someone will follow the 60. You had quite a few receivers falling that far. Roman Wilson.

Right?

You have them taking Roman Wilson. Ricky Pierce, you had 80. Mitchell falling quite a ways. Troy Franklin. And if you just do the math, some of these guys that feel like they have a chance to be in the top 35, 40 at receiver are absolutely going to be there at the end of the second round.

Well, in teams, and I would drive the editors insane if I projected six second round trades. Right. So they would go nuts and. But that's what happens. There's five or six trades. So a lot of the guys that I have at the end of the second round, teams will move up and go get. And the Bills are probably one of those teams that'll move one of their fourth round picks, move up and get one of the receivers they like. Kind of like packers did that with Christian Watson a couple of years ago, and so I would expect that more than a first round move from them.

Chad writer, check them out. NFL.com. Where can they find you on Mark X?

On X?

Twitter. Great Chad underscore market.

Mark insists that the owner gets his due. That's just a mark thing, and I can't.

That is completely inaccurate. But we'll just let it go. Where can we find you?

Great.

Phoenix. Mellon is like to call him. I would. Chad. R e u t e R. Right?

Yeah, but don't call him Rooter.

I don't care. Okay.

All right.

Thank you to Chad. Thank you to art. Good name day, too.

Yeah, absolutely.

Chad, we got an art. Tomorrow we get Daniel Jarrow, so come back for more draft analysis with move the sticks on ATN. Until then, you know what you must do. Heed the.