The Around the NFL podcast. Hit 23 miles per hour on Next Gen stats. Welcome to another edition of Around the NFL. I am Dan Hansus, joined by heroes Greg Rosenthal and Mark Cessler. It is the post-Christmas Day recap. We're going to hit a bunch of games where you're going to hit a TNF preview for yes, week 17. My goodness. I got to say, guys, first of all, happy day. Happy day after Christmas and-.

Boxing Day.

Boxing Day to the Canadians. Shout out to the Canadians. Whatever that is, I hope you enjoy it. But after TNF and then the Xmas Eve XL and then Jesus of Nazareth presents the holiday classic triple header, I'm now the opposite of what I was talking about on Christmas Eve where you have the old hidden gift routine. I'm terrified looking under the tree for a gift that has not been open. All of a sudden it's the Nashville Ninjas, led by Brock Oswiler, against the Vancouver grizzlies, led by John Beck. Yeah, we know the grizzlies were already taken, but the NFL didn't care. They just bought that website. They just added a couple more teams and it's going to do the biggest number of any show today. Also, this is now my fear, the fear of the gift not being seen yet.

I think, Dan, you said it well because we were discussing this on text with variable angst between the three of us. Greg seems to completely enjoy this scenario. Dan and Mark, maybe a little bit.

Less- Greg's finally gotten it. He's finally gotten what he wanted all those years ago. Football every day.

He's got it. I'm not to name that. You made the point because Greg quickly turned around and said, But next year, Christmas is on Wednesday. Yes, that's next. We're going to avoid all of this. For one year. Which was, in theory comforting. But Dan, I thought you made the right point. It doesn't matter when Christmas is. The NFL will do this every Christmas Day and Christmas Eve for the rest of time. So whether you enjoy it or not, it will be in your life eternally.

I try to be a good sport about it. It was a busy day yesterday with all the things with the big holiday. I'm starting to think, Greg, your family goes to Japan every Christmas. I sometimes feel like, I feel bad for Greg. But now I'm thinking like, This is now syncing up perfectly for you the way the new world is operating. But I tried.

To- No, it sucks.

I know it does. I tried to keep up and be professional while also being a family man. Then I jumped on Twitter this morning and I got up early to get ready for these games we're about to talk about. People were just going nuts on Twitter, apparently, all throughout the night. Everyone, listen, the product, it's successful.

Well, I got to say, when you looked at the slate, you were like, Okay, there's some good teams here, but the games, other than the Marquee one, which we'll start with, one of the maybe the best match of the year. The others were like, Okay, three out of four were huge upsets with insane comebacks. They were surprising results. At the very least, NFL did their thing in terms of like, wow! Because the League looks a little different, I feel like than it did even when we taped Saturday night.

I agree with you on that. We got to start with the most impactful game of the regular season that changed standings. It changed how the top and the bottom of the playoff picture looks with two weeks to play. It likely changed how the MVP will be decided. We'll go in reverse, Chronicle Order, starting with Christmas Night in Santa Clara. Ravens threads three receivers to the right. Lamar Jackson fakes the toss to the right, throws across the middle, touchdown. Z. Florars and the Ravens strike on back-to-back drives. It is.

Stung.

Disbelief here at Levi Stadium in Santa Clara. Wow! Lamar Jackson throws two touchdown passes in the span of 18 seconds, wrapped around one of Brock Purdy's four interceptions. They Coast. Really, this is a game that started out as a heavyweight fight. I said that to my father-in-law as we're watching it as the game goes to half-time. About midway through the third quarter, it was just running out the clock. Maybe got a little bit interesting at the very end. But you always knew that this was a Ravens Night, a dominating performance, 33-19 over the mighty, thought to be unstoppable San Francisco 49ers, like I said, at the big bellbottom. That changes, Greg, a lot about what you think. It removes the invisibility cloak around the Niners. Like I said, Brock Purdy threw himself out of the MVP conversation potentially, we'll see. Lamar Jackson and the Ravens once again affirm that they are an absolute wrecking crew that should not be looked over by anyone, and they made sure everyone knew it, and one of the biggest stages, if not the biggest stage of the entire regular season.

I've loved this Ravens team all season because there's no weak spot. They have their weeks where they're not impressive overall. They barely squeaked past the charges. Even a week ago, they weren't all the way impressive. But they have bomb drop games that won against the Lions, that won against the Seahawks. They've beaten seven different winning teams by at least 14 points this year, which would be an NFL record. No team has ever done that more than five times, which is crazy. They're just so physical. I think the contrast with the quarterbacks, it's the easiest place to start. But I do think we're in the right place to start here, where there was one in Lamar who started the game off the last couple of weeks. The offense looks discombobulated. But by the middle of the second quarter, he settles down and he's just so calm and relaxed when there is pressure around. When he's running, no one else runs in slow motion like him. It almost seems like he's not accelerating. He's just trying to avoid the hit. It's all happening in a very calm manner. I've really felt that all season. Whereas, Purdy, in a tougher match-up against a better defense was sped up all night.

I just think he was a tick late because of what he was seeing. That tick late was enough to cause these mistakes. He was hesitating. He was what you don't want to be as a quarterback, Mark, which is the combination of too slow and hesitant and then too rushed at times. It was enough to make those big plays and really highlight what a vicious Ravens defense this is when they're playing their best.

Yeah, this Baltimore team, I loved reading some of the reporting around this game, post-game, where they got off the plane and they're 3-0 on the West Coast. They won a game in London. There isn't really a situation they're not prepared for, and I think that has a lot to do with John Harba. But they got off the plane and they were annoyed by the point spread. They came into the game feeling that nationally. And Greg, you were one of the first people way back in September to point to the Ravens as a team that was complete, that had Super Bowl vibes to them. They were weird early on and I thought they were an awkward team. Even when we were in London, we thought that their performance was a little awkward. But I thought last night was the apex of who they are and what they wanted to be. They were very annoyed by the national perception that they weren't the equal of the Niners. Yes, it was their offense, but I thought their defense made Brock Purdy look confused at times. Now, Brock Purdy only had two actual turnover worthy plays according to PFF.

There are four picks, and yes, you can say it yanks them out of the MVP conversation. I don't buy that entirely because I think it's your overall body of work. But I can see how the voters would see that. The Ravens right now are as complete a team as you'll find in the league. And they've absolutely destroyed the Lions, the jaguars. They blew up the Seattle Seahawks and they did what they just did to the Niner. It's like there's really no way to talk about anything about them other than to say that they are the favorite in the A-C. I don't buy Lamar Jackson as MVP, but that's just me personally. I don't even think he's as good as he was when he was the MVP, but all that is fine. The Ravens right now are in an up and down league. They're the premiere A-C squad.

Yeah, I think the Ravens, listen, the league changes so fast because, like we said, the Niner seem to be a potential historic juggernaut. And they still could be. This could be a bad, ugly bump in the road. We've learned too much covering this game and doing this show to count out teams based on a result in week 16, but it was eye-opening on both sides. The Ravens, yeah, they're bad dudes. I mean, these guys, they are what they went out there and showed is that with all the pretty weapons the Niners have, there are certain teams that are good matchups against that type of Kyle shanehand attack. Baltimore is one of them. Baltimore would love to see the Niners again in the Super Bowl if it ever got to that. Here's Patrick Queen talking about that difference.

We play a brand of football that people don't want to play. Everybody want to be out.

Here queue playing basketball on grass and stuff. We ain't with.

All that. You could do all.

That stuff.

You just going to hit.

The mouth every play, honestly. We get care less.

About all the pretty stuff we do, gimmick stuff. You still have a lot of play football. You still.

Trying to get touch. That's our mindset. That's how we want to.

Come out and just hit people in the mouth.

Greg, the game opens with a Ravens going three and out on the road. The crowd is hot, everyone's pumped. Then San Francisco immediately goes right down the field with a big kiddle reception is the key to that drive. Then Purdy, he targets Steve-O Samuel and the games can swing on single plays. If he hits Steve-O Samuel at that throw and he does a better job looking up the safety and he fits that in there. All of a sudden, the Niders jump ahead early and Purdy's feeling himself. But once that ball gets picked off, it is that change in the air. And while Purdy, maybe he wasn't for interceptions bad if you study the game tape. There were bad throws and he got away with a couple as well. Baltimore just made him look like everything that the Purdy doubters have been saying that he is someone that is not special despite the stats being special. I thought that interception set the table for the rest of the night.

Yeah, that was one what I'm talking about where he was late. He's not going to stop firing it. But even earlier that drive, I thought, Mm. He had his best two throws the night to kiddle, but he dirts one to McAfrey. Maybe that was the next drive on third down where McAfrey is open and he just throws it in the dirt, which is a very strange play. He took a bad sack on, I think it was fourth down on that very drive and they got bailed out by a holding call on the other side, but he held on to the ball too long. I think about the other interception where he throws across his body, which is also just great defense. Purdy, yeah, he had a bad game, but you have to give credit to Kyle Hamilton coming on a very creative blitz. That's what makes Purdy leave the pocket a little early, and then Purdy makes the bad decision to throw it back across his body. And Humphrey makes a terrific, and maybe he didn't get a turnover worthy play for this one, Humphrey makes a terrific deflection. And Hamilton, who had been blitzing, comes back and makes the interception.

I think it was a combination, but I'm glad we had Queen because the way you can stop San Francisco and no one's built for it in the NFC, in my mind, is with great linebacker play and it's great physicality. The 49ers are supposed to be the toughest team in the league. They're supposed to have the best linebackers. But if you have two guys in Rokan Smith and Patrick Queen that can stay on the field and actually keep up, for the most part, with their running game and passing game without getting exposed because that's what she and him likes to go after, then you can maybe get them off their game. They're just used to winning that matchup. They did not in this one. But I don't know if there's a team in the NFC that has that. Let's listen to Purdy after this game talking about his performance.

For me, it's like I got to ask myself, all right, who are you? What do you stand for? Who are you when things are good? Who are you when things don't go your way? It's easy to be riding high and thinking you're the man when things are going well, winning games and all that stuff. You don't really see a whole lot of adversity in some games and whatnot. This is the reality of the NFL. Great. Mark, the Steinbrenner Doctrine is firmly in place for this 49ers team. It's win the Super Bowl or bust. I'm not going down the road of, is Brock Purdy going to get benched? But Sam Donald did come in at the end of this game after Purdy got beat up. And made some throws. Daniel Jeremiah, part of the discourse on Twitter last night saying, There's just arm strength here that Darnell possesses that he can make throws that Purdy cannot make. Football is an unpredictable sport. Once upon a time, Earl Morrow won the MVP for the Baltimore Cults and got benched for an over-the-hill injured Johnny Unite in the Super Bowl. I think Purdy has to respond in these last two games.

Forget about the MVP race, but just to quell fears that this is all unraveling with the biggest games of his life coming up.

He will respond. I think that Is something that I find so mentally ponderous with these island games is what happens based off of one performance. Can we mix in this food coloring with the rest of what we've seen from Brock Purdy? Which is he's been super consistent. He's mentally tough. His teammates adore him. The idea that you'd go replace him, I know you're not saying this, but the idea that you'd go replace him with Sam Arnold is utterly and beyond absurd to me. I'm glad this game happened to Brock Purdy. I really am. I'm glad. Because I think number one, the way he responded right there verbally is how he's going to respond physically. The idea that this is suddenly who this quarterback is, he played a great defense. There was an incredible athletic plays on two of his interceptions. Rock Purdy, in general, has been careful with the football outside of a couple of games. He's been mentally consistent. He uses his weapons well. I absolutely expect him to bounce back. I cannot believe that it's taking him out of the MVP conversation entirely. It's all it is.

It's not. He's fourth, I think, in the ads, actually.

I know, but it's just everything that happened within the last 24 hours is all we respond to. It's like, Brock Purdy, over the course of this entire season and last season when he played has been the same guy 95% of the time. It think he will bounce back and I cannot wait to see that happen.

You know what it is, though? It is just one game. We talk about it all the time. It's not just about production or pop the hood stats. It's about the stories and about perception with MVP. And we talked about it on Thursday. Greg, you were talking about Lamar, and this is Lamar's chance to get back in the MVP race. I thought Lamar was very good in this game, just like he's been very good to great all season for a great AFC team in the Ravens. But I think you can lose. I didn't factor that in. I didn't think on that stage for Brock to totally faceplant, I do think that has a chance to really stick in the minds of voters. I know the Niners have much more important things. Speaking of which, Greg, the Discord, two of my least favorite factions, although I like a lot of the people involved in these conversations in social media is Lamarmy and everyone just trying to say, Listen to me. This guy is the dude. Then the people that are saying, Brock, Purdy, can't actually play. You guys.

Can't play social media in.

These games. Everything colliding in that game. Right now, from where we stand, the day after Christmas, after this great meltdown, Lamar Jackson is now the MVP, Vegas says, and Brock Purdy is has been exposed. I do agree with you, Mark. Everybody's got to take a deep breath. But I wouldn't throw it out entirely because that is a huge stage where I think Purdy could have put a stamp on MVP, and instead, he led to a ton of questions about himself and that award.

Right. The Ravens have a very tough matchup this week against Miami. Very tough defense. That could be a tough matchup for Lamar. The Niners have two easy matchups, exceedingly easy. I don't think it's going to... The Rams defense, I wouldn't say is exceedingly easy, but just numbers wise, they're below average in general. The 49ers have commanders, Rams. Look, if you look at the top five, I think it's totally fine. People are so strident about MVP. I love Lamar. I think if you watch him week to week and you include the rushing yards and everything that he does, he's a totally legit MVP candidate. I don't have a strong feeling. I look at it and it's the six that are the highest favorites right now in Vegas are Lamar. I think number two is CMC, who would have been my pick going into last night, and I still might be on that.

He's mine too.

Tua is third, Purdy is fourth, Josh Allen's fifth, Daq is sixth, and Tyreke is seventh. I don't think there's some great separation between any of those seven if you really wanted to make different cases. My gut feel is that Josh Allen's actually been the best quarterback in the NFL this year. I felt that for most of the season, even before these last three weeks. But because it's such a weird year and there's no big separation, I'm good with anyone. Lamar and CMC both make sense to me, too, if one of them ends up winning it. I just think even last night, you've got to look at those stats, and Lamar's stats aren't crazy good. But you just start with the middle section of that game when the Ravens had the first in 20 late at half time, and he hits those two difficult passes. Then he has the great scramble to get three before half time. Then suddenly, eight plays into the second half, three of which were really good improvs by him. The other was the touchdown to flowers. They're up by 18 points. You've seen that a lot in Ravens games where at the key moments, Lamar just puts people away with really special stuff.

He's a legit choice, too. I'm not going to get worked up if any one of those other guys get it, though.

I would say one thing about the Ravens, both of these teams have veteran coaching staffs. The Niners have had their defense coordinator plucked 42 years in a row, and so you're dealing with that. But Todd Monkin, who I really had questions and suspicions about that working out, it's working out. Mike McDonald on defense, I don't even know if he's our defense coordinator. If you don't have Jim Harbaugh, linked to John Harbaugh, who knew McDonald from Michigan and all.

The stuff-I think he's going to get a job this offseason, too. He's been so good.

Well, yeah. I would say both of these coordinators for the Ravens have worked out so well and they're so well coached. Their team is not starstudded. It's not a top heavy. They're different to me than the Niners where it's like the Niners have... If you were to look at these two rosters and say, Pick the 10 best players, eight or nine of them are probably from the Niners, I would say. But then the Ravens just somehow year after year, gel so well. What they did on defense last night, they were the more physical team. I think what Patrick Queen is saying is so right. It's not the style of football that we want to watch every week. He was talking about basketball on grass for the rest of the NFL. I so get what he's saying.

It may not.

Be my.

Type of team. That's the Dolphins, by the way, and I'm not tell.

I think this Ravens team is just like we don't really... We're DJF to the rest of the league. They sent a message last night, and when it comes down to MVP, it's about voters and what they see and how they feel. I think there's a different conversation like who is the MVP and who the voters are going to vote for. These guys that we're allowing to vote for this. Two different conversations.

I've looked at the results in voting, and some years, 16 votes get it done out of 50. It's like 16-12-9-8. It's not often that that happens, but there have been years like that, and this feels like it might be a year like that.

I agree with everything both you said and Greg, what you were saying about MVP being truly wide open with worthy people. But I do stand by the stage matters. I think Brock, if he even plays okay last night and just Coast to the finish line, it's his award, but he just opened the whole thing up. We've been ahead of the national media on this because now people are talking about how this MVP race is interesting and different than past years. We've been talking about it for a few weeks now. I think Krish McAfrey is the guy having a historic year and a year where Lamar and Josh Allen are having great years in a down year at the position of quarterback. I think there's just things to take into account. Finally, Trent Williams left tackle 9ers. Keep an eye on this. He's got a groin injury. We'll see. He finished that game on the sideline on a short week. We'll see if he plays against Washington and hopefully for San Francisco, he is okay. Also, Brock Purdy did exit that game with a Stinger as well. I imagine he's going to be okay, but injury is there as well.

Last little weird note, they showed this on the Telecast and NFL. The Twitter handle, official Twitter handle amplified it. John Harbaugh, who's obviously feeling great as he deserves to after a game like that, had a strange exchange with Brock Purdy on the worst night of his professional career. Let's actually credit Matt Lively on Twitter with this.

People tell me you're a rocker.

John shakes his hand, looks him in the eyes, People tell me we look alike. Then you see Purdy after the handshake walking away like, Are you fucking kidding me?

But they do look alike.

He's very-Not now, not now, John. That's very flip and trivial and a very dark moment for an injured Brock Purdy after the worst game of his career. By the way, congratulations, Mark. You a lockoff. You were pretty fired up on text last night, but you have no reason to be in a bad mood because the Ravens absolutely made a statement on your behalf as you beat both nick Westling and Greg Rosenthal in a huge, huge spot.

Well, I mean, I'd so I urged Greg to do this for the show.

Yeah, that was a great… Greg, I hope you're taking the right lessons out of that.

Yeah, I've locked the team. I've locked like five straight times. Yeah, that was a bad luck. I thank nick for making it as well. But like.

nick challenged you, Greg, imagine how sweet it would have been on top of that. Nick challenging your manhood, lock off with me. Then you instead sided with nick Wessling, and then you end.

Up-well, I didn't know I was siding with him. I make the picks, and that was a very wrong pick. I shouldn't have doubted this team. But yes, I've never seen a person enjoy a lock less. It got out of our final channel 5, broadcast of the year. Thanks for everyone. Watch it over there. I got into my car and saw an insane amount of hatred towards the Ravens and the sport and everything. It's like, I was enjoying the hell out of that game. That's how I knew my heart.

Was it. I know you, Greg. Of course you were. But of course you were. You're the second general in the Lamarmy. So of course, you were. Everything you wanted happened.

At half time, though, you had to admit it felt like a great sporting event. Then... And then it went sideways. But at.

The half time, it felt great. I totally do acknowledge that it's not even a Browns thing with the Ravens. I do think the Ravens fans, in general, it's like, if you're above the age of 20, understand where the team came from. I've been down that road before verbally. But I am quite fascinated with this Niners team, and I don't like what happened, and it put me in a bad mood. It's like this crowning of the Ravens on December 25th. Cool. Let's see what happens. The Super Bowl does not occur on December 25th.

No one's crowning them. I thought about that last night. Look, if they don't win the Super Bowl, they had last night. These are valuable as fans. Enjoy that. You just won on Christmas night against the 40. If you can't enjoy that moment. If you can't enjoy that win, even if in the end you lose in the AFC Championship Game, this is a fun couple of weeks to be a Ravens fan.

Cestog, you were a big mad. I don't think I've ever seen you so mad on text as you were last night.

Really? I don't even know if it made the top 10.

I don't know if it made the top three of this week.

All right, let's take a break and we'll hit the rest of the games. Taylor is back. Taylor is looking. He steps up. He starts to pump. He starts to run.

He is.

Diving around. He is loading up. He is firing and it is intercepted by the Eagles and the game is over. It is intercepted by Keilly Ringo and the Eagles finally buried their three-game losing streak, and they.

Have their 11th win of the season.

Yes, it wasn't pretty, and it really has not been pretty for the Eagles for the last month or so, but they got what they needed on Christmas Day. A win, snapping a three-game losing streak with a 33-25 win over the giants. Jaylen Hertz had a productive day one week after being ill in that big stage, he throws a touchdown pass. He also runs for a score. And the Eagles, despite Mark not playing a championship level of football, they do enough to beat the giants and take one step closer to the NFC East title, which is theirs for the taking with the Cowboy stumbling in the last two weeks.

Yeah, I mean, it wasn't pretty. It doesn't quiet some of the questions, but you put up 465 yards on offense, 170 rushing. Matt Patricia, the move to Matt Patricia, obviously got on everyone's radar. But you went out and had Tommy DeVito benched. You accomplished that, one of the biggest sports stories in the NFL this season. I think in general, it's like if we're going to freak out over the Niners and wonder where they are at this point, and I'm not saying we're doing that, but there's all this calamity mindset about what happened last night. This didn't change what I think about the Eagles. I think they are imperfect compared to what we saw down the stretch last year. But this was probably a pretty good game for Jail and Herds, actually. I thought that AJ Brown and DeMonte Smith showed up, the running game got going. It got a little weird down the stretch with the giants coming back into this. But for me, the Eagles, it's just like, are they going to figure out all the problems? They're like the NFCs, a better version of the NFCs Chiefs where it's like, I think what they're dealing with, they're going to be dealing with.

It's like, do I trust them to win a couple of playoff games? Yes, I do. I mean, it's just like this is just another step on the ladder.

I don't trust them at all. And also, Hertz through a PIC 6 I should put in there, too. So his turnover issue is another clamorous turnover that let the giants wrap back in this game. I came out of this game feeling no different about the Philly Eagles based on the three losses before.

I felt so different after reading the coverage and listening to a little coverage than I did after watching it on Cadence this morning. I did not watch this game live. I went and saw a movie yesterday with a friend during this game. What movie? Zone of Interest. Very counter programming on Christmas.

Who's in zone of Interest?

It is about the family who lives right next to and you never see inside. It's just like the banality of them fixing their garden and all this, the bureaucracy is.

Just the same. Listeners, this is my fault. I did not know I was walking into yet another Nazi conversation on this program.

But thank you. Jonathan Blazer, great movie. No, I wouldn't say great. It was good.

It's around every corner.

I did watch Christmas Vacation the night before. I like... I watched them condense and I thought, Oh, this does make me feel a little different. This was the game they needed. 28th down, 465 yards, a bunch of special plays by Jalen Hertz. He definitely ran better than he's run maybe all-season. I thought he looked spry. They need to be an elite Goddard, I thought, at his best game of the year, quicker decisions by Hertz. All this. Even the PIC 6, Dan, Goddard just fell on that play. It was just like, fluky, bad luck. Okay, that's fair. The other touchdown that giants got early in the second half is the return man collided into another guy on the special return thing, and then it turned it over on the 10th. So it felt a little fluky. The only real Eagles thing that was bad was giving up that big touchdown late in the game. That was bad defense. But then I saw the coverage and it's like, Ciriani is in an argument on the sideline with Asan Redik. And Devonte Smith and AJ Brown are trying to step in and are arguing with him, too. Then they give up on it because Ciriani is going crazy.

The second the game ends, they actually pan to Ciriani and Devante Smith, who still seem to be not happy about something. They blew the two-minute drive at the end of the first half too. After the game, AJ Brown did not talk to the media even though they won. Devante Smith literally said, Yeah, we had a good game, but we're not happy. Then this Jaylen Hertz quote that we have also struck me of just like, Man, the vibes are just so weird with this team.

With that standard that we talk about, it's like that double-edged sword of what's more important, winning or the standard. It's a very manipulative thing to the mind sometimes, but I can go play to the standard and lose and I'll be sitting at home sick. I can go win and I play to the standard and I can be like, Man, we got some more in this. We can go chase it. It's the fight that we battle as competitors. Nobody's having fun. Nobody's having fun with the Eagles this year. It just seems like a very different situation. You're right, Craig. There it is obvious and we know it because of the drama on the defensive side of the ball with the coordinator and these other examples you're pointing out that the house is not a happy one. Again, everything can change by the playoffs. So week 16 is week 16 and we can't form permanent judgments. But there is a lot of building evidence that there's trouble in Philly, whether or not they won yesterday.

I think one thing, when we talked about that Collision, Low Crossers book that we were slightly obsessed with about 10 years ago, what it taught you a lot about was coordinators and why they matter and how much time you spend with them during the week and how a lot of times certain players are with their position coaches, their coordinators, much more than they would ever be around Ciriani or the head coach. It's like, you've changed the environment for both sides of the ball. We just spot the Ravens. It's working really well in Baltimore and there's no complaints. But I'm with you, Dan. Something here, and I don't know if it's a coaching thing or the... Because that's two weeks in a row where Jalan Hertz's postgame press conference is quite mystifying. It feels like there's coded language and something else being said that's hard to totally unpack. But it's like the Ravens or the Eagles a year ago were the high vibes, fun team coming out of nowhere. Right now, it's like the energy feels to be dragging them down. Something strange is going on.

Right, I saw these Brandon Graham quotes where he was like, Man, we got to enjoy this. He almost said to even said it to Jalen, We want to see you having fun and being happy. I think what Jaylen was saying, and it was tough to figure out, was he has a certain level that he wants to play to. He's been saying all season, I'm not playing to that level, even though we're winning. Now he's just in a weird mental space where they can't even enjoy these wins because there's just some mystical level that they're not reaching. I don't know. There's something weird here. Yet if you just watched their offensive tape, it was their best game in a long, long time. I know it was against the giants, but the giants defense has been a little better when Lawrence is out there and he was out there. They had a great offensive game. There were a couple of moments in this game they could have totally folded and they went on these long drives. After that PIC 6, they responded with an awesome vintage running drive and they had a couple of clock killing drives late.

They didn't finish them, but they were good. They had a good offensive day.

Has there ever been a more obvious tease to a Seth Wickersham expose coming straight for your ass? It's either going to be middle of January, late January, maybe if he needs more time to work on it, February. But we're going to get some of the dirt because I just get a feeling that this Siriani ship might leak as well when things take a turn to post-season irrelevance, which I just sincerely believe this is not Philadelphia's year, but they're going to win the division. The giant side, by the way-They got.

To win both of these games. I guess, wait or no, do they? They only need to win one, probably. That's true.

They're in good position, obviously, with the Cowboys losing these two weeks. The giant side, I think the only real takeaway, and people shouldn't be surprised by this because he's not really a prospect. It's just been a really nice story. But Tommy DeVito gets benched and Tyrod Taylor plays better than him because he is better than him. Now the only real question there, Mark, is Brian Dable. Do I ride with the younger quarterback to continue to develop him? Or do I put the quarterback on the field that probably gives us the best chance to win? Giants fans are going to be probably pulling hard for Davito's return, both because he's a cult hero in the tri-state area and also the worst quarterback gives you a better draft pick at this point. But it'll be interesting to see where the head coach and leadership there comes down.

Yeah, I guess if I'm Brian Davel, number one, I think job totally safe. I do think he's shown some stuff as a coach. I would rather bring Davito back into the fold and have him have a good game or two and show that development that what I did with a player that no one had ever heard of before shows my ability as a coach versus we know what Tyrod Taylor is. Trying to win with Tyrod Taylor does literally nothing for the giant. I would go back to Davito. He's been one of the better stories. He had a rough situation here against the Eagles. But if you're a dayball, go show your cubie, whispering skills.

A rough game against the Saints, too. You know who's rooting for Davito to get the job to? It's the Rams and the Eagles who have big games against the giants because I think they'll feel more comfortable. Dable did speak on Tuesday about it saying he wouldn't reveal what he's doing, which is usually a sign they're going to make a choice. It has been a different tierod this year, for what it's worth. He leads the NFL with quarterbacks with 100 dropbacks in big time throw percentage, which is very unlike Ty Rodd, who's usually very safe. He's also missed a lot of throws, too, but he's just taking big chances and hitting a lot of them. I don't know, maybe he's just in his YOLO, I may never get a chance again phase.

Just stay away from the chargers to the doctor and you'll continue to make those big throws.

I'm not crazy, right? And not to offend members of the Nights of Columbus and so on listening to the show. But Tommy DeVito can't play, right? What are we... We must develop or we're going to QB whisper. It was nice. It was a nice story.

He's not ready to play right now. I think he could have a career, but he's maybe the worst starter in the league. I would agree with you on that.

All right, let's keep moving. That's what I was looking for. I'm not crazy. Two arrowhead where just you just can't make sense of it. You cannot make sense of what has happened to the Chiefs this year. Chiefs take over on their own 25, Kelsey out of the gun, rolls out to his right, tries to find his receiver. That's it. Intercepted down the sideline. Intercepted Jack Jones, and he walks in. Touchdown. Back-to-back plays for the defense with touchdowns, and the Raiders has completely flipped this game in.

Kansas City.

I mean, come on now. After the Chiefs put up what, like -20 yards in the first quarter, they have back-to-back turnovers on offense that give the Las Vegas Raiders their only touchdowns of the game. Kansas City then has two quarters to get things figured out and win a game and win a division. They can't do it because they can't make plays on offense. Final score, Raiders 20, Nine, Chiefs 14. Bye-bye, it's not even a question anymore. No more talking, Mark, about the Chiefs somehow finding a way to get the number one seed. That ain't happening. Now it's just about holding off the Raiders and the Broncos for the division, which they will and they will have one home game in the playoffs. But call the fight. This offense has never looked more broke. You said it, Greg, on Thursday that they've actually gotten worse since the buy. This game, Mark, there is… Watch this tape. Everybody who hasn't seen this game, no one's open. Now, Mohomes is in a position where he's clearly, clearly pressing and he's making mistakes too. The whole thing is broken and they won't be able to fix it until after this depressing, frustrating season is over.

Yeah, I thought it was arguably the worst game of Patrick Mohomes' career. A lot of credit to the Raiders, too. It's not just a Chiefs thing. They have allowed the least points per game since Antonio pierce took over as coach. There's something really happening with the Raiders. But we just talked about Ciriani tangling with the player. That Travis, Kelsey, Andy Reed entanglement at the end of that or during that game stood out as something you just haven't seen with Kansas City. It's been nothing but feel good vibrations the entire time. Their offense is like, I think there are these teams that we just assume will suddenly transform and fix everything and become the superpower we once knew. It's like, it's not going to happen with the Chiefs. I just don't think so. It's like, if you told me in this game that Aden O'Connor would not complete a pass after the first quarter, that for the next three quarters, Aden O'Connor would not complete a pass, I would say this is going to be a Kansas Cityromp just by the sheer statistical unusual nature of that. The last team to win a game when they had not completed a pass after the first quarter, you have to go back to 2,000, the Bengals, 23 years ago.

And soThe Raiders weren't on the other side of the ball torching the Chief's defense. It's just that Kansas City could not unhook. I feel like this is a team at this point now where I'm like, When they get picked off in the playoffs and they will, I will not be surprised at all, and I don't think either of you will be surprised.

No. And Raiders fans, we'll get to giving you some love because that was a fun, fun game if you're a Raiders fan. Going to the arrowhead and a big stage, getting that win and staying alive. They actually have a legit chance to make the playoffs here. But we got to stay with the Chiefs. They had negative yards through four drives. Negative yards, the Chiefs. They had the lowest amount of yards in the first quarter, I think, of any team. What was it? In the last 19 years? Something like that. That was totally insane. Then they finally get a touchdown drive, and that precedes the two defensive touchdowns in seven seconds. I mean, one is where they're getting too cute because they can't just run a normal running play successfully. New problems are popping up, which is to me, what's worrisome. They are getting worse. Rasheed Rice was at the center of a lot of the miscommunications. I was living and dying by it because I was watching for my kid's fantasy team as Rice on it. Walker's got Rice and hoping for a big day. There was probably about five different plays where him and Mohomes were not on the same page, including a big fort down.

You had Mohomes yelling at the offensive line. That's what really stuck out to me in this game was they could not run the ball. Their success rate on early downs was disastrous running before Pacheco got a concussion. The offensive line was getting absolutely housed in pass protection. Malcolm, Coons, and Crosby, they really remade their defense because Coons has gone nuts the last three or four weeks. When you got new problems popping up. This offense has gone from like, Wow, they're mediocre to like, They're bad. I'm with you, Mark. That probably was the worst Mohams game I've ever seen. He could have had four or five interceptions.

Now, Isiah Pacheco, he's in the concussion protocol on a really brutal luck, where his helmet pops off and then he gets kicked in the head. Their guard, Trey Smith, hurt his leg in the fourth quarter. They have Cincinnati on Sunday and Cincinnati is a team that's obviously pretty hot and cold themselves right now, but it's just crazy. It's crazy to watch it. I know the prevailing sentiment now is Antonio pierce, who deserves to be the head coach of the Raiders? Okay. I would say I would push back a little bit in that they're obviously playing hard for them. They've caught in a couple of teams, flat footed and delivered really spirited efforts. But they also got beat three-nothing at home once. They didn't have a completion after the first quarter in this game. If I'm Mark Davis, I would take a look at the whole picture and what are you trying to build there before getting sucked in by a really fun December. But I'll leave it at that because I don't want to be the Grinch with Antonio pierce and the Raiders because it has really been from where they were when Josh McDaniels got fired to having any conversation about the playoffs now is really commendable.

I'll push back on that. I like the idea of them keeping him right now.

That's the general.

Sentiment, I think, out there. I'm a little torn because I'm with you. Offensively, they've had some good play calls, but that hasn't changed. But he is a defensive coach and the difference, there is something more about being a head coach and getting your players to play for you. They look like a completely different team. I know they've caught teams at the right time or whatever, but they're the team that got Staley fired. No one else did that to them. They're the team that did this to my homes. No one else did that to them. I think Mark Davis will be informed by what happened with Pesachia, who he's voiced some regret about the way he handled that. The next two games are big. They're at Indy and then Home for Broncos. If they win those two games, which would be tough, they still got to win these two games with O'Connor. But if they won't win those two games, there's actually a 60-something % chance they make the playoffs, according to the New York Times. That's crazy. Which is just crazy.

And Greg, I think that it comes down to these hirings are obviously owner's choice. And to hear what Mark Davis said about not hiring Versace, which he really regretss, he verbally regretted, I think that informs this. I think he's going to get the job. And Dan, you're right, the sample size is small. But then you go hire someone else with no sample size as a head coach, too. I would say these same Raiders players were uninspired and underperforming under Josh McDaniels. That had a lot to do, I think, with personality and the coaching staff. They're all so much better now and they want to play for him. At least you know you have that.

He's just so Raider-y. That's to me, what does it?

And all that stuff is what I'm like, Okay, I know that too. I don't know. Put it this way, he also replaced the right guy, I think. I think McDaniels is in that club occupied by only a few. Adam Geiss was waiting for him, smoking a cigarette when he arrived at the door of truly overmatched, disliked failures at head coach, and it makes everything look even better. And in case anybody doesn't know because it is a blip in the NFL radar, but Rich Bessachia was on John Grooton's coaching staff in 2021 when Grooton gets himself fired for being a dumbass. Then Bessachia takes that team to the playoffs with a 10-7 season. That's their only trip to the playoffs in the last seven years. There was the Bessachia bump and now the pierce pop. We'll see what happens to the rest.

Of the way. I mean, he's taking castoffs. This defense is not that talented other than Crosbury. Jack Jones, he's talented, but he got cut by the Patriots early this year. He's taking a bunch of castoffs and had a top three defense since he took over, which is what more can you do?

For sure. Absolutely commendable. We have my home sound, but I think we know. He still believes, but he knows. He knows. And don't you dare anybody out there, don't blame this on Taylor Swift. I don't want to hear it. It's not her fault. Maybe your boyfriend got a little older too, but this is not about Taylor. This is about Brett Veitch and Andy Reed having to come to Jesus moment. Because I know it's the personnel's bad, but maybe this is a wake-up call that maybe it's time the scheme needs to... It's been an incredible run by the chiefs, but this is a whole different thing. Let's close out with the Christmas Eve game at Mile High, another one that was hard to figure out. Ryland Wades leaning forward in the stands. The snap, the spot. The kick clears.

The.

Line. Sailing to the uprights. The kid is good.

The kid did it.

With.

Two seconds to go. Ryland has given the Patriots a.

26, 23 lead here in Denver. He's mauled.

By his.

Teammates on the far side. And how good must that feel? I couldn't tell the howling and pain in the crowd. Was that Broncos fans or Patriots fans? The Pats entered Christmas Eve with the number two overall pick in the draft lined up. But behind Chad Ryland, the fourth round pick who's had his struggles a kicker, he hits a 56-yard field goal with two seconds to play. The Patriots, another team that scored two touchdowns in less than seven seconds over this holiday round of games. They jump way ahead, hold off a Broncos rally, and win 26-23. Mark, that Ryland kick capped a seven-play 44-yard drive that began with 58 seconds left after Denver goes three and out with their chance to win the game. The Broncos all but done in the AFC playoff race and they have no one to blame but themselves. You got to win at home against the Patriots on Christmas Eve night.

Yeah, I mean, New England scores 20 of their 26 points in the third quarter. I mean, the game starts, it was handed to Denver to get a big start. Zappie fumbles the ball deep in his own territory on the first play. And Denver is sitting there with a touchdown, a gift touchdown, looking them in the face, and they don't score. They have multiple drives out of the gate where they could not get anything going on offense. I think their first three drives started in New England territory for zero points. A lot of it just comes back to the fact that the Broncos have been a good story in general. Like Sean Payton, after a disastrous start, you thought, Well, maybe this is a fringe playoff team. And you go out and you need to handle your business against the equivalent of a sitting duck in the New England Patriots. They've been a good defense. Courtland Sutton going out did not help Denver at all. But this is the end of the Broncos season. I find them to be visually. I was watching this game without taking notes, just trying to observe it like, I don't need this team in the playoffs.

They are visually dull to me and I need the Broncos to go figure out something else over the course of this offseason. I think it's the end of Russell Wilson. I really do. I believe that Russell Wilson's journey with Denver has come to a close after this season.

I tend to agree because of games like this, which was the whole thing. I thought it was one of his worst games, maybe his worst of the season until the fourth quarter. At that point, they had already had 11 drives, which is a whole game for most teams, and they had 160 yards at that point. There was actually a stretch. I think they had five drives in a row that had a total of negative 15 yards. They just couldn't get anything done. He was just scrambling for no reason, running around doing crazy stuff and none of it was working. Then the fourth quarter starts and suddenly he turns into peak Russell Wilson. They put up 16 points. They do the Super Bowl comeback for the Patriots, where they hit both two-point conversions. Not only that, they get a three and out from the Patriots with two and a half minutes to go and they get the ball back with plenty of time only needing three and you're thinking, Wow, this is really going to happen. Then they blow it. They go three and out, punch it right back. I don't kill them for wanting to get the ball back.

The way the Patriots offense was playing at that point, but he's using his timeouts to try to get the ball back. And he didn't know that a magical man named Bailey Zappie was going to hit his fifth 20-plus yard play of the game, get an 89 PFF grade, the highest for a Patriots quarterback in three years, and hit Devonte Parker over one of the best quarterbacks in the League for the second time. Patrick Certan, one on one. I mean, it is ridiculous. Things happening. And then Ryland hits the kick. It was a totally preposterous game, and I have to admit, I did, as a Patris fan, enjoy ending, or all but ending the Sean Payton and.

Russell Wilson. Yeah, that doesn't suck. It is easy to get sucked into draft pick mania and all that stuff. Then same thing happened with my team against the Commanders on Sunday where they probably should miss this field goal. It's probably better in the long-term interest of the franchise. But you know what? There is something to be said, especially with my team that's had a history of losing and young players that you do not want to get infected with the punk of failure. You see Bailey Zappi celebrating on that sideline after the kick. You see with my team guys like Saas-Garnard and Garrett Wilson getting to enjoy a moment. That's important too, to win football games and to not get lost and be a casualty of war that you've lost. For the Patriots fans that are like my dad, who don't care about anything but about draft standing or this or that, just I like to see my team win. Well, you got a nice win on Christmas Eve. Speaking of the New York Jets, they are, let's spin to week 17, they are on the road against the Cleveland Browns, Thursday Night Football. Mark, you are no doubt educated on this.

The Niners did not… Wait a second, Mark. Sorry about that, Greg. Wait a second. What's that? Angry Cestog Christmas Night. The Ravens get beat. There is a pathway to the AFC North title for the Browns. Now it's not really there. That's why you were so mad. Yes or no?

Well, it's like I said before because I have pet teams just like everyone else around here. I cracked it. The Niners are one of my pet teams. I just.

Think that- I didn't talk about the Niners.

I'm not talking about the Niners. Well, no. It wasn't a Cleveland winning the division thing because I would say I like teams to be tiered where they belong. If Cleveland were to win that division, they very likely are the number one seed in the AFC. Let's be realistic. I think they've been a fun team and we'll see where they land. But the idea that they're the number one seed, I don't think would be a great thing for football in general. I'm being real.

About that. That would be awesome. This is an insane answer. Yeah, Martin, where.

Are you going? It's not an insane answer because they're a very incomplete team that's overachieving in a lot of ways. I mean, based on the injuries they've had, they're missing a lot of starters. I like them- I think.

Being the number one seed would be the most amazing thing that has ever happened in the history of pro football. Come on now. That'd be fun. Nobody would be upset about that. It's not going to happen.

But come on. It's not going to happen. But I think I like the storyline that they're actually living in, that they're inhabiting, which is a strange, injury riddled, overachieving team with a Coach of the Year candidate and an amazing story and Joe Flacko, who the Jets, if anything, the Jets defenders know Joe Flacko as well as any group of players in the league. I think that presents an interesting challenge if the jets show up to this game and they still care about their season, and I believe the defense does. They do. I think that this... One thing that happened to the jets that I think makes a difference is for Woody Johnson to come out, whether you like it or not to him, for Woody Johnson to come out and say, The coaches are safe, everyone's staying, the GM's staying, the ship is not going to be blown up from the inside out. You're going to get players to like, We're going to play hard because we're still being looked at by the same people. Our careers aren't going to be in flux the way we thought they might. You have practiced against Joe Flacko seasons in a row.

I think that matters. I think it's a huge chance for Cleveland to not basically drop a bomb on themselves because it's like you win this game and you're just in the playoffs. They probably are already. But if you go and do it on Thursday night at home in a celebratory way, it puts a cherry on top of a very unusual, strange, the strangest, browns season that I can recall since 1988, when a 40-something-year-old Don Stroke came in and beat the Oilers in the final week of the season in a snowstorm to send the Browns into the playoffs. It's that level of weird and it's become enjoyable because Joe Flacko is someone I never enjoyed in my life. Now I'm like, Joe Flacko is one of the most enjoyable football players the Browns have ever had because of what's occurred.

I think it's a good test, though. Forget even knowing Joe Flacko, but just their offensive line, which was certainly better against Houston than it was the week before, really injured. They're overcoming a lot. Having to go against this Jets defense, that's a real deal test. Now you can feel confident, I believe, that you're not going to need that many points to win this game. If you're the Browns, you'd like to get a ground game going. They're winning without any running game. But people who have just been watching the highlights, I guess that does show it for Flacko, but I just can't believe how well he's playing. I'm not going to say it's fluky because I don't know that it's going to continue, but the level that he's at just seems is outrageous. He is playing like Stafford or something. It's just insane how well he's playing. He's playing way better than he played at the end of his Ravens career. It should almost go without saying. I mean, he is giving them a legit chance because you have an elite defense. You have the number eight team in DVOA overall because of that defense, largely an elite defense and a quarterback, it's like you can make some noise.

The most recent Jets game, it's hard to decipher if you're looking to get any type, glean any type of preview of how this game will turn out because for two quarters, the Jets defense played at a level that would bury Joe Flacko and many other quarterbacks. Then in the second half, they let Jake Briskett go up and down the field on them. While the Jets defense is on a balance a very good year, they're not unstoppable. They're not going to go to Cleveland and dominate. I think a big part of that is something that has nothing to do with them, which is the offense is so bad and Zach Wilson, who, by the way, we didn't really talk about it, but all that controversy around Wilson about when it leaked out of the locker room that he wasn't sure he even wanted to play because he was worried about getting injured in an uncertain future. Well, what happened? He had that one good game and then the offensive line no shows on him two weeks ago and gets his head bashed in and he's been in concussion protocol since. Actually, I don't know if he's in the protocol.

He still is in it.

He's still in it.

Which is not.

A good sign. That's a sign that you're going to get Trevor Simeon again, who's terrible. What that tells me, Mark, is that Cleveland's defense is going to put the clamps on the Jets running game. Bruce Hall is a really good player who's had a great year considering the circumstances, but there's not going to be a lot of room for him, I think. What's going to happen is that Brown's defense is going to put Flacko in a lot of positive game scripts. I feel very good about this. In fact, what the hell? Why not? I'm going to lock up the Cleveland Browns on Thursday Night Football because I think it just sets up very well. Is it in the zone?

Wait a second. I don't think so.

Is it not.

In the zone? I'd have to check that. I think it's like seven and a half or something. Let me check.

If it's in the.

Zone, I'd love to do that. I absolutely love this. It is seven.

We could let.

Dan do that, though. It's out of the zone. No, you got to have a code. Oh, wait, you're locking up the jets? -or the Browns. Dan is not.

Going to overtake you for the number one position. No, let him lock up the Browns. Let him have a Christmas gift.

It opened at six and a half. What are you talking about?

It is at seven. We got to play by rules.

Well, that's fine. I mean, Dan, I'm with you, I think.

Thursday night. Why don't you go see another pleasant movie, Greg. Take a walk. Yeah, Greg.

You're the one trying.

To lock up against your team. I mean, look, if this was lockable, I think we would all lock this way.

That's fair. You just lean on what's the best position group on Thursday night? It's like Cleveland, Stevens. Couldn't you see Miles Garrett having a strip sack? They are a little banged up. I could just see them causing total chaos for Trevor Simeon. Hopefully, they don't blow it. If you're a Browns fan, you're finally maybe not just assuming everything will go negatively. It's a little different right now, and that's a very weird feeling.

It probably won't be a great game, but it is a nice moment and opportunity for a party here for the Browns, the way this lined up the last TNF game. Who knows? Maybe the last El Michael's, Herb Street game period. You never know.

I think he's got.

Another year, doesn't he? Yeah. I mean, he's under contract. I'm just saying, hearing Herb Street on college makes me like, What are we doing here? I'm so not into it. Just that they could clinch a playoff spot with Joe Flacko in an island game, that's fun. That is fun.

Indeed. What a great time. All right, anything else?

We'll be back on Thursday. Weird schedule week, right? We'll be back to the previous show. Holiday week. I'll be with nick Wesley on this game. We're finishing the TNF recaps in style, too. This will be a nice one.

nick Wesley on the mic for TNF recap with Greggy, so make sure to check that out. Because of the holiday and the wonkiness of everything, we will be off tomorrow, Wednesday, and back Thursday with yet another preview of games week 17. All right, that was the Around the NFL podcast. Thank you to everybody for listening and do what you know that you need to do. Head that.