The Around the NFL podcast.

Bang, bang, ATN gang. From Radio Row in Las Vegas, Nevada. It's Around the NFL. Super Bowl Week, show three of four on our final show from Radio Row as we head into the weekend. And then the biggest football game of the year, Dan Hans is here with the heroes, Greg and Mark Sesler. And yes, we got another great show coming up. Great guests, great conversations. We go over NFL honors, the Hall of Fame announcement, make our game predictions, some sandwiches on the line. Let's have some fun. Last show of the week before Super Bowl 58 kicks off.

No fun will be had. We are serious football people.

I don't think we are. That sounds like Greg when we drove by the Pinball Museum and he's like, Wait, what's Pinball? You were definitelyThat was stunning to me. That was a different planet. That was stunning to me.

But Greg explained, but that was stunning to me.

It just was a brain.

The humans will know.

My brain just wasn't working. I was thinking it was a different version of Candlepin Bowling because it looked like a bowling alley or something. I was like, What the heck?

Let's not lose the sight that there is an actual pinball museum.

Yeah.

I think there could be some cool items in there. We're talking like 1972 pinball machine.

The Gen Xers are definitely feeling the pinball museum.

I'm not rushing over there, but I think it might have some charm.

It is sad that the pinball has lost its cultural cache. But the museum is here for those who are still- Yes, it is. How are you feeling, Mark? How are we?

You know what? I am just here to do what I can do the best I can. No, it's a lost Super Bowl week on some level.

You keep saying that every time.

Because I don't think I've seen Las Vegas at all. I feel I've been in my hotel room and then wheeled over to this facility and then wheeled back.

We have been taking Mark to the set in a wheelchair. People should know the full story of what's happening here.

Yes. Dan and I did the rarely tried Bang Bang last night. Two dinners, both great company. A 6 o'clock dinner with our producer Eric and our great friend Matt Casey from NBC. Then when we're on our way to the second dinner where we're going to see Handsome Hank and our friend Connor Or, we actually saw-This is an all-timer.a young man wearing-A young man. His name is Will Soystrom. Will was wearing a sweatshirt with our faces on it. The old Roomful of Heroes sweatshirt that someone had illegally made and sold on our behalf. And that's fine.

It's good to spread. It'd be nice if we made a dollar of merch income at some point in our career.

That's not Will's fault. I like that. No, it's not on Will. The fact he was repping us and we just walked by him in the casino was an amazing moment.

Everybody's minds were appropriately blown by just the happenstance of it all.

And then he was like, Where's Mark? And we're like, Well, Mark's under the weather. He was disappointed.

I always whenever anything happens, there's an air of disappointment from Dan and Greg, and I think they vaguely don't believe that I've been ill, but I've been in my hotel room the entire time.

We believe you.

We believe you.

I am telling you, I believe you 100%. You've been struggling. It's been an odd week.

#believemark. The movement is alive.

I'm up on the 50th floor, though, and I've had an incredible view of what's happening out in Vegas. It's a surreal sight.

That meeting, that chance meeting, is right there with me to a couple of years ago when we were walking through the streets of London, and not a young man, a young bloke was walking towards us, and he stops in his tracks, he pulls his AirPods out, and he just doesn't say where. He just points at him. He goes, I'm listening to you, mate. Which is pretty trippy, too. So it's very cool to see. And we have, over the course of this week, people have been coming up to us yesterday at dinner. There's a JRVP fan. Hey now. And Somebody came up and said, When's Throwback podcast coming back? So all the satellite. What about our Bang Bang 2, Mark, featured the great Connor Orr and Handsome Hank. Now the only question is, does the Heat and light podcast return?

We get questions I think we can talk about that either individually or combined on a, I would say, if not weekly, three or four times a week basis on Twitter and other formats.

Three or four times a week.

There's some people out there that want it. We ran into tech issues last time. Those have been wiped away. I think, Connor and I are more free now.

You guys were on an amazing platform. I remember that. We literally had a meeting with the great people of iHeart earlier this week. I'm like, If you guys have any ideas to do a show, we'd love to do one with you.

I could see it coming back. I mean, Connor and I want to.

You could lead a heat light to water. But can you make it drink?

It's like, do you want to do the sequel to something 25 years later, the fans wanted? That's what we're hearing for.

It worked for the Phantom Menace.

Heat, too. A little bit of a risk. It's a little bit of a risk. Heat, too.

All right. So good Great stuff. Let's get into it. Let's start with everything that went down here in Vegas at the annual NFL Honors Awards, in which they make all the announcements. Prince Harry was in the house. How about that? Handsome Hank doing his job.

That was the news of the week to me, is that Prince Harry is being tugged from place to place and made safe by Handsome Hank.

The guy was 14th in line for the throne, and now he's one of the biggest celebrities in the world. All he had to do is turn his back on everything that he was connected to in his life. There's something to take out of that, perhaps. I don't know. Let's get into it. I don't have a pro or anti Harry's stance. I'm just pointing out that he went from third or fourth in line for the throne to... Cam Hayward's up on stage accepting the Walter Payton Award, and the first thing he says is, That's freaking Prince Harry. He really has threaded a needle, I guess, is what I'm trying to say.

It is a crazy moment. It definitely jumped up the star power for NFL honors.

Henry, I would think, got at least a 20% raise. Look, it's Berman.

Chris Berman is 20 yards away. Shaking hands over there.

Glad-handing.

The big bell bottom.

Look at him. That's his only Blazer, by the way.

Look at him. We have reached the stage in the Super Bowl week where the splash page on esbn. Com is Chris Berman Picks the Winner of Super Bowl 58. That's where we're at now. All right. It's time. Don't get impatient, Greg.

This is the journey, Greg. I just mean that that's... It's like, what are we doing here? It's like, make a big deal of what the pick is.

All right. Like we're going to do in just a bit. We're going to make our picks. But let's start with NFL honors. And obviously, the big award is NFL MVP. And this is not a surprise the way... In general, a lot of these awards, there wasn't a lot of fun intrigue this year for several of them, including MVP, because you knew the way the season ended, Lamar was going to win. It really came down to, was he going to win unanimously? He did not, but he got 49 of the 50 first-place votes. So it was a blowout. Dak, a distant second place with 15 points. Lamar, 49. Cmc with 14, your boy Mark, Brock, finished with nine. So that was the voting. And here was Lamar on stage after accepting the award.

I'd rather sign in a video to accept to the award if I was to win because it was great pleasure to be nominated as well, not just myself. It has to those guys, and even my support team as well.

But just to get this award, to be here for the award, it's a honor.

But I rather would have been in the Super Bowl to get set for the award.

But it's all good. I feel like just enough time has passed where it's not weird for him to be on the stage after blowing the AFC title game. So that's good for the Loma Army.

It's happened a lot in NFL history that these NFL MVPs accept the award after a crushing playoff disappointment. It actually happens- It's a little wonky, yeah. Yeah. I believe Patrickahomes, the year he lost to the Patriots in the AFC Championship game as a starter. His first one, same thing happened. It's happened a number of times. It is awkward, but you're able... I think he's able to appreciate it. And the bigger surprise is just like that. It was such a blowout to me. I guess it was just the way the season ended. It felt like a very strange MVP year that Lamar would have been my pick. So he was a deserving winner. I think he was the right pick for this year. But it wasn't a year where the last few years, I think the second or third place, like Jalen Hertz's 2022 season would have won this. Josh Allen, a couple of years ago, would have won this. And there just wasn't one of those seasons this year, and Lamar was the best of the options.

I think the way the schedule worked out, knocked out MVP candidate. Then the next week, that guy got knocked out by someone else. Lamar was on top of the hill at the end of the season. But I just go back to this thing, and I guess part of it is we're in an era where what happens in the postseason is not supposed to matter in terms of MVP, quarterback, offensive player of the year. But I would rather we vote later. There is something awkward to me to have the MVP be someone, and this is just me, who completely blew it in the playoffs. It's a little-It's a regular season award, though.

That's just what it is.

I guess it should be because otherwise it's going to just tilt heavily no matter what happens in the Super Bowl.

Here's the thing. I think, well, it's not- It would have been weird or had Jack Prescott gone up on stage. It's not 1982 and the kicker for Washington winning the MVP.

There's been some terrible MVP awards over the years.

But this one, I feel like we're going to look back, and while we're not going to disagree that Lamar should have won. We're going to be like, wow, he... Not that he was lucky, but it's like- Good year to be him. If you look at his numbers, he didn't have his best rushing year. He was middle of the pack in shutdown passes and yardage. Everything else, he passed the eye test, and he won a bunch big-time games in the season. So it makes sense. But the numbers, it's a strange year. But he got it. He's got the hardware now. He's got to do it in the playoffs.

I don't know if people will remember that, though. It's like when Palomar... There's been some Defensive Player of the Year awards like that, too, where there's not a logical pick. I think with the Palomale year, one of the-But MVP is different than that. Right. That's what I mean. In the long run, though, you're just like, Well, he won two MVPs. I found the voting interesting. I believe it was Aaron Shatz voted for Josh Allen He came in fifth overall. I thought there would be more diversity. Brock Purdy got nine second-place votes, five third-place votes. Dak just edged, as you mentioned, out, Christian McAfree, but there wasn't a lot of mixing it up.

I thought there would be a little more disagreement. We're at the point of the week where everyone, not us, of course, but everyone that works in media is just trying to get now to the finish line. I heard Stephen A. Smith just railing against whoever was the one who didn't vote for Lamar Jackson. It's fine. It's a disgrace. Josh Allen had a... Eric. I know Eric would have voted for Josh Allen. He had a big time year with a lot of memorable splash plays, and I don't think it's absurd that he got a vote.

Also, coming from Aaron Shatz, there's a lot of data and hard work and perception and ideas going into that. It's not just from the middle of the show.

Well, maybe you would feel differently, Mark, because your Cleveland Browns had a nice award show. But if they factored in the playoffs, there's no way Kevin Stefansky is coach of the year. But he does win award over Demeco Ryans, who obviously the Texans beat up on the Browns in the playoffs. They finished tied in points, but it was Kevin Stefansky that got the more first-place votes. One more first-place vote.So.

He wins it.

That's as close as it gets, obviously.

Both deserving. I think that actually emphasizes my point. Forget the Brown side of it. I think what Demeco Ryans did ultimately was go and win a playoff game for a team that absolutely was in another world a year ago. Stefansky, He earned it absolutely for regular season, navigation of losing a billion quarterbacks, bringing in Joe Flacko, and having all that happen the way it did, and keeping a calm demeanor through it all. He's won it twice. There is a pretty short list of coaches, and it's a pretty credible list of coaches that have won it two times. I think Kevin Stefansky is a good coach. He stands out on that list as like, wow.

Right, because he was a little bit on the hot seat coming into this year because the other two years between the awards were rough.

It's fitting that it was tied. I think it's fitting that it was tied. Just give it to both of them.

They tied in points. Come on.

I would have loved that, actually.

It's crazy. Every vote matters. Five people left Stefansky off their ballots entirely. You vote for the top three. But seven people left Ryan's off their ballot entirely. So even though Ryan's had more- Can we leave them?

Either of those guys off your ballot.

I don't even think that's that crazy, too, because Dan Campbell got a decent amount of support. He had three first-place votes.

It was an interesting year.

Kyle Shanahan got a decent amount of votes. John Harbaugh McVay, and then deep, deep.

I'll use Stefansky as the example.

Someone had Bowles third? Come on.

I'll use Stefansky as the example. If one of the playoff teams had a team that used five quarterbacks and made the playoff, you can't not give him It wasn't wonky at all.

It's just that I think that the vote to me is always ridiculous because just because Kyle Shanahan has been good for so long, we say this every year, he gets far fewer votes. Kyle Shanahan has done a better coaching job than any one of these people.

He came in fourth. Yeah, he came in fourth. Thirteen coaches got a vote, which is, I can't remember any voting award. Even Sean McDermott for that inspirational speech that galvanized his team to a big winning speech. Oh, wait, the speech was years ago, but it's still Don't mess with the narrative.

I'm cool, though, with Stefansky winning Coach of the Year. Flacko winning Comeback Whether Year is wild. We're at dinner when we see that. We had a friend who was connected to somebody who had wagered quite amount of money on DeMar Hamlin winning that because DeMar Hamlin nearly died on the field last year. So Flacko gets it after starting five games, winning four of them. We have some Flacko sound. I would imagine we've gotten to know Flacko over the years. He's a humble guy. He sees he has a good perspective on things. It had to be a little weird to beat the guy that almost died. So Flacko takes that award. Let's keep moving. Offensive player of the year, we can come back to any of these. Christian McAfree takes that. Well earned. He was a monster, led the League of All-Purpose yards, over 20 touch downs. Another very close vote was defensive player of the year. Miles Garrett, edges, Micah Parsons, TJ Watt. How close was that vote?

That was 23 for Miles Garrett, 19 for Watt. Then you go down to Parsons at seven, and to Ron Bland, one.

Even closer because Watt got more. The second and third place votes matter a lot. It was very tight, but T. J. Watt didn't get done.

And then AP Offensive Rookey of the Year. This is a great rookie class in the NFL, and it was C. J. Stroud, who could not... As great as some of those guys, Pukunaku really comes to mind.

He got two first-place moments.

You had to give it to Stroud. If it's a rookie who blows up the way he did, yes, Stroud deserves that. Even not taking into account that he had a massive playoff game as well. Yes, well deserved for Stroud and defensive rookie of the year. Just like the Jets last year, a team sweeps this category. It is Texans, Will Anderson Jr. Taking that trophy home.

Yeah, the Will Anderson Defensive Player of the Year vote was also extremely close. In first place votes, actually, our guy, the conductor, Kobe Turner, tied for the lead there with Will Anderson and Jalen Carter.

They each got-Your guy. I mean, we like him, but he's your guy.

They each got 14-place votes, but it was the second and third-place votes that ended up deciding it. So Carter got second, and Kobe Turner got third. The Comeback Player of the Year, though, is maybe the most surprising NFL honors award that I can remember.

I would say, I've heard it put out there, and I think this would be a good solution, that Just name the award after DeMar Hamlin, and then from here on out because it's like...

Yeah, but he didn't even win the award.

I know, but I'm saying they could have done it.

How about give him the award?

It's strange. A lot of people must have But the Flacko's the narrative completely, I think, outshined the fact that Hamlin didn't play much this year, too.

But-brown's QB take, I thought Baker deserved it more than Flacko for what he did this year.

Baker came in third. And this just reminds me of Wes because because Wes would rail against the Comeback Player of the Year award. And I agree. It's just so nebulous. I think if you're going to have an award, make a definition of what it is because you're trying to compare a player that came back from a near-death experience to a guy, as I saw on Twitter, that was coming back from unemployment. He literally didn't have a job. And then Baker, who fits a more traditional winner of the award of just coming back from a big career dip, defiesI find exactly what it is.

When I woke up this morning, I was feeling pretty dangerous.

Because eight people... Debar Hamlin actually got eight more first-place votes than Joe Flacko. Actually, the conventional wisdom was- That's crazy. Was right. And they only changed the voting last year to include first, second, third in every vote. But what happened was eight people left DeMar Hamlin off their ballots entirely. Now, they might have just thought, he doesn't really make sense for this award in their mind, or they could have completely forgotten him because they weren't thinking about him because he didn't have a big season. Forgotten him. Trust me, not all 50 voters are completely locked into what's going on. So it was one of those two things. But either of those, to me, are unacceptable. And I just think they got to define what the award is because Flacko only got left off three ballots, and he got a ton of second-place votes, and that's why he won, even though actually way more people thought Hamlin should have won.

Well, a lot of it is what happens at the end of the season. But when you say to define what the award is, I think it's one of the more nebulous awards out there, because if you say it's just for returning from injury, or it's bad season, great season, or it's something obscure happened to you, and then you return and play well, it's like there's all sorts of comebacks.

Brock Purdy got six total votes, including a first-place vote. I was like, Wait, what's he coming back? Calvin Ridley came in seventh for coming back from a gambling suspension.

I think the cynical side of me with Hamlin is That happened late in the regular season last year. Then he was at NFL Honors last year, and they celebrated him there. It's almost like it's old news. So the fact that he didn't qualify for the award last year, people moved on. It was no longer compelling to them in the way it was. But those that remember that night and really how that played out. Listen, it's a silly word, but what happened to him, that to me defines the idea. To go back on the field and face almost that fear after what happened, that's a come back.

But it's also the thing where it doesn't turn Joe Flacko into the villain in this exercise.

No. He felt awkward about it and said as much because he was like, I don't even know what with this means. He gets it. It's like Phil Rivers said the same thing when he was coming back from nothing and won the award. He came in back from a bad season where he was just like, okay. Ryan Tannehill had a similar one. And the last awards thing I just would want to say is- It's nebulous. Yeah, it's very nebulous. Calm down, T. J. Watt and Steelers fans. You won a Defensive Player of the Year award before.

You have such a hard on for T. J. Watt. What do you mean? You just always have to get him, I feel like.

But they just get so fired up as if the top four candidates, and I would include Crosby in this, who came in fourth, and Parsons, who came in a distant third. You were splitting hairs to pick between any of the four of them. I don't think you can feel that crazy that anyone would get robbed here. It made sense to me that Garrett wanted.

A great site of the night was Colleen Wolf interviewing Joe Flacko before the awards, and he was towering over by what seemed to be a foot and a half. And she mentioned that she was already in six-inch heels, and she just was looking up at him like she would at a skyscraper. It's a sneaky tall man.

My image also with Flacko, I remember from the night, is there's a clip of Lamar putting his arm around Flacko's shoulder, and then he put his head on his other shoulder. He was like Joe Flacko's young child. So that's nice to see after there were some reports of them being quite prickly with each other.

I was like, What's it like to be a Ravens' quarterback who steps up in the play? Tell me more. Show me the path. Sorry, Greg.

Took Joe a while, too, right?

Joe. Listen, Joe.

I remember even after the Super Bowl year. Actually, no, it wasn't. It was his fifth year. They had made the platform.

Remember him playing lights out in Foxborough a year or two later? Yes. A great comeback by the Pats. He was a big-time January performer. All right, let's pivot and talk a little Hall of Fame. How about that? Well, let's start this Super Bowl week, after all, with a great Super Bowl memory of the Otts. And having another spectacular postseason. But Devin Hester, the rookie who was so dangerous, who went to college here at Miami. He led the NFC in both kickoff returns and punt returns. And the Cots have had a hard time all season covering kicks. It's Hester. He could try and work it back to the middle. He gets past the first wave, and here he goes. It's Hester inside the 30. Covering kicks, it's Hester. They're going to take it all the way for a countdown. And no flag, 92 yards. Listen, it's hearing Jim Nance without Romo going, Jim. That was Devon Hester, Super Bowl 41. I call it the Prince Super Bowl in Miami, the heavily favorite cults against the bears. And that was the highlight. That was the highlight of that night for the bears, the opening kickoff in an eventual Indianapolis win.

Devon Hester. It's interesting. It's fun now as we get older and seeing these guys that you remember when they came into the league, now getting into the Hall of Fame after watching their whole career. Devon Hester is in the class of 2024. Joining him, Dwight Frini, Andre Johnson, Julius Peppers, Patrick Willis, and then in the senior committee class, getting in is Randy Gratishar and Steve McMichael, former Bear's great. Great crew, all deserving. Who jumps out to you on that one, Greg, of that list?

I'm thrilled to see Andre Johnson and Julius Peppers get in. It's a great reminder, especially with Peppers, to just wait a little bit. Wait a little bit to evaluate these careers. And when I was mentioning Flacko before, I was thinking about, I think it was his first three years, he had one TD, seven interceptions, and they were really getting on up.

We get it, Lamar Jackson in playoff games.

No, I just meant people were killing Flacko for not being a playoff performer for years, and then it actually flipped the entire way. And Julius Peppers, to me, was picked on for years of maybe not living up to his draft value. People have totally memory hold this. They're like, well, he's so talented, but he really doesn't play that hard. And it was just people who are making vaguely racist comments about a guy who's extremely low key. And sometimes you have to really watch, I think, the film to appreciate and appreciate his consistency that it got better and better and better and better. And he made things look easy. And he was a guy who I think got in in part because he had such a long career of sustained excellence. But for the first five or six years of his career, where he was still very good, he got picked on and people were using the B-word around him, and he's literally a Hall of Famer. It's really cool to see him get in. The B-word. The B-word. I don't know why I called the B-word. I love this class because this is the first...

I just think it's a cool class. Aren't all these players cool?

Well, yeah. It's like we cover big chunks of their careers. Devon Hester obviously stands out to everyone. You will never have a player like him getting into the Hall of Fame ever again, assuming the NFL keeps the rules as they are for kick and punt returns. It just will never happen. It's like that element and the danger that he presented will Has gone away in the NFL. Everyone always brushes over the senior entries. But Steve McMichael, I think, was the first football card I ever had and was a member of that '85 Bears team and was a long-haired, angry, A theory-driven linebacker who, sometimes because you had Mike Singletary in there and a couple of us, Ron Rivera, gets a little bit forgotten. He was as badass as it gets. Right now, he's battling ALS, and I know he's going through a lot. But he was like a mid-80 '80s, and he played a lot longer than that Bear's team, but he was a mid '80s fire starter and an unforgettable if you watched them.

Andre Johnson is one of the more dominant players of his era, and good to see get in. Some of the guys, as they get older, and that was the case with Johnson, last three years, he was in decline as a player and bounced around a little bit, went to Indianapolis, even was in Tennessee at the very end. But those prime years, those peak years with Houston, he was just locking in. He was a first-team All-Pro twice, second-team All-Pro twice, and the linchpin of that offense in that JJ Watt glory years. He was the star on the other side of the ball, the consistent guy, and well deserved for him as well.

I think Patrick Willis was essentially a perfect player. He didn't have as long of a career as some of these guys, but was a perfect player.

Right. I love that he got in because to me, he's a little bit like Terrell Davis, where the first five years of his career, he was the defining inside/middle linebacker of those five or six years. And then he got hurt, and it was it. It was really six years. And I think that's, to me, more worthy of a Hall of Fame induction that you're dominant for six years, six years is a long time in the NFL, than some of the compilers that get in. So to me, he's a particular type that I'm glad got in. I just like, this is actually the first class where I started doing NFL covering it in 2003. I feel like I did pretty much see all of these guys' careers. Frini started just a bit before. Same with Peppers. And it's just, I don't know. It's badass to see. But it's also crazy to me that Antonio Gates is not on this list because I don't want to do the thing where you just say it's crazy, he didn't make it. Who would you take out over him? Hester, to me, would be the obvious one, but I would actually put Gates over all of them.

I actually think if you had asked everyone in 2010, and you gave them this list, who's the biggest lock of the Hall of Fame here? I think Antonio Gates would have been your answer. I do think he's getting punished a little bit for being on the chargers. And some of it's just timing. But he won first-team All-Pro three straight times over Tony Gonzales in his peak. He has 40 more touch downs than Travis Kelsey does. He's the all-time leader in touch downs at his position. He has about 30 something more than Gronk does. At the time, there was strong arguments that he's the greatest tight-end of all time. I hate knocking it out, but Hester is just a weird one because Hester only made three or four Probles. I think he deserves to get in, and I think it's just a timing thing. Gates will get in eventually.

His chemistry with Rivers was unbelievable. Here's the thing with him, injuries just really held him back. He played forever, but remember, he's always battling those foot issues. When you look back at his stats, he was always a red zone stud, as you You mentioned the touch of 116. He just had two 1,000-yard seasons. Now, it's a different era back then.

But it's just a different era.

I'm just saying the injuries, he missed a lot of games in his career. But if you're a player who goes first-team all-Pro is big time, and he did it three years in a row.

And then a few more second team.

And then five out of six, he was either first team or second team. So I feel like this is the case I make for Don Mattingly, my hero growing up in baseball. A shorter prime that's truncated by injury. But if you are a face of the league in a dominant presence over the course of a decade. That should be given extra. So I'm with you. He'll get in.

He'll get in. That's why it's hard to get. He'll be all right.

We saw him, by the way. We were getting coffees.

I know.

You didn't say anything to him.

I had just gone on a little Twitter rant because it annoyed me because I was such a fan. I think he's maybe the greatest receiving tight-end I've ever seen. You just have to compare between errors. But I did not say anything.

You should have shown him your little tweets.

Here are my little tweets. What if he's annoyed? He might be pretty disappointed that he didn't make it.

You're in his camp, though. Sure. That would be clear. Sure.

Shout out to Dwight.

I was going to say, we don't want to- The best first step ever. We're going to have Cam Jordan on in a little bit, and Cam Jordan is right behind Frini in the SAC record. He's in the top 20, and sometimes in that, and I said it on the pod recently, the two best rivalry is Cowboys, Niners in the '90s, since I've been watching football, and Pat's Colts in the 2000s. The Payton and braided, it sucked up all the oxygen, but Frini was one of the One of the dudes on Indianapolis that made that whole team go, and he was a consistent force in their front seven, and they don't win titles and have that run of success without him. So also well learned. And he's in the top 20 all time.

Right. And he's the guy that was getting defensive player of the year, second, third. That's the difference between him and a Willis, who was really great at his position, but another one who was really dominant and had a nice little run, too. I remember him covering him in the 28 to 3 Falcons team. He had a nice little rebound season. That's right. It was a team leader for them.

Mark, do you want to add anything on the final Veterans Committee?

I'm going to scour that.

He did.

Well, he said Steve McNeichel, but there's also Randy Gratishar. We can't leave Randy out.

Gratishar was, I believe, Denver Broncos during the Orange Crush era. That's before my time. So I stay away from giving first-hand knowledge about players that I was essentially a toddler during that time.

I was just giving you the runway in case you had something in there.

I think You know, actually, my only comment, it's sad for me. It's great that they get in, but sometimes they're not alive anymore, or it's so far away that people glance over it and don't really understand what their career was. It's like, I don't know how we do this with the Hall of Fame, where some of these guys get in and celebrate it a little bit earlier. If you're on the bubble that long, it feels like a rough ride.

I immediately think about speeches, too, with these guys. I feel like this is a good crew. I feel like Willis is going to bring some fire. Who else we got?

Well, I'm doing a little gratishar here. He is the heart of the Orange Crush defense. He's the all-time leading tackler for the Denver Broncos. He's the 1978 defensive player of the Year. So- Went to the Super Bowl? Shout out. All right. Anything else? All right. Let's wrap this up. Good conversation. That's what's happening in the news. Let's take a break, and we'll welcome our first guest. We'll be right back. Welcome back. Our next guest is... He's a dude. Let's start there. He's a dude. He's also part of the NFL Media Podcast Network. He's also a stud defender for the New Orleans Saints. You know who I'm talking about. Cameron, Jordan. Welcome to Around the NFL, buddy.

I appreciate you guys having me on. I mean, the intro music dropped and I was like, Oh, now I get it. I get it. Welcome to the twilight zone.

Okay, so twilight Zone. It's always a good test how the guests hear what that song is. It's a bit of a sci-fi vibe to you.

Yeah, it's quite eerie until the guitar started stringing.

Yes. I always found it. It's 1988 cop driving back to his apartment after his partner just got shot. Yeah, he's down and out.Yeah.

Just thinking.That makes perfect sense. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But... Kam, here's a little full circle moment. We've been doing this podcast for 11 years now. I'm getting emotional about it. And before the podcast started, we worked and just wrote for nfl. Com. When you were drafted into the league, you came to the old Culver City studios, and in the green room, a young journo, Dan Hanses, met with a rookie, Pam Jordan. That's him.

He talks in the third person ever since he got the last contract.

I remember we had a nice conversation. I wrote up the piece. I remember talking about your dad, Steve, and watching the Mr. Perfect video years ago in WWF. And now, here you are, like I don't know. You're a Hall Famer? I think you are. You're the all-time SAC leader of the Saints. You're in the ATN era, one of the greats.

Yeah.

One of the greats. And you are in OutShine Jordan Cameron, who you were mistaken for in that draft process.

How annoying was that for a couple of years?

I mean, come on. In 2011 draft class, arguably the greatest draft class of all times. There was so many... There was Cam Newton at number one, me at 24, Cam Hayward at like 30. Then there was Jordan Cameron at like the fifth or sixth round. I even got called by the Browns to get drafted by them because it was Jordan Cameron. It was Cameron-Jorgan. There was a whole invert. Oh, jeez. Exactly. It was a Browns organization that we all admire.

Cameron Hayward seems like a great dude. He won Walter Payton Man of the Year Award last Last night, though. Is that problematic for you? People still confusing you two.

I got called Cam Hayward a couple of times in my stay here for the last three days in Vegas. I've been called... I was like, Oh, man, Jordan, Cam. I said, That doesn't even make sense. I said, he's been retired for so long.

And let's still go in like Jordan, Cam.Cama, Cam.That's very good.

Maybe that's what it was. There was pause in there. So maybe he was just reading it like you do the passport. Last name first, then go on to the name. But I also was like, Oh, he's like, what they don't do. I was They're like, You're Kim. I was like, Come on, say it. Say it. I was like, Newton. They're like, No. I was like, you don't. I've gotten Brandon Marshall and Alvin Kamara. And at this point, I'm just like, Where are we going with this?

You're a great player, but at this point, you're basically a podcaster. You're our colleague. Alvin Kamara, great teammate. You're our teammate. We're here on the NFL. Off the Edge podcast. Yeah, the Off the Edge podcast. And I know that you're truly a podcaster because you're getting an 8:30, not even a wake-up call, an 8:30 card to come over here to Radio Row every single day. You're working harder than us.

Yeah, it's a 6:45 wake up, so I can go run down to the wait room down at the hotel just to get my 30 to 45 minute elliptical in to get the creative juice is flowing. The cerebral cortex has to be pulsating at ultimate levels for me to be able to get into a car at 8:00 to be here by 8:30 to get this work in.

How's season one going of being a podcaster here?

Man, so I don't even know what season this is. So me and Mark Ingram had a podcast, Trust Levels, Biggest Trust on the Highest of Levels. It was vibes. And when you can bounce ideas and talk to other people, it's a party. Going solo, this solo act? I'm not feeling like Justin. I've been thinking about it.

Tell me more.

I'm feeling like Justin Timberlake when he left Insink. I'm like, I'm off on my own. I miss my friends. No, I won't say it out loud. We'll continue.

He made a lot of money, though.

Well, you want to be Timberlake, 2003 to 2014, not modern day Timberlake when everyone hates him. Wait, everybody hates him? It feels like there's been a lot of pushback and blowback with Brittany and Janet and some other stuff. Are they on Trolls?

Do their kids watch him every day?

I would not know. I think Justin's doing all right. I think you're right in that state. Yeah, he's probably doing quite okay.

Between Branch and Princess Papi, you know what goes on in my house?

How many kids you got? I've got four.

Okay. And three of them are girls. So guess what we watch? A lot of musicals. A lot of kids. And guess what Trolls is? One heck of a musical.

Living in LA, I only know one dad has three kids, and it just tears his life asunder. It's mostly two or one, and people I know.

So to go four-Oh, you're in LA, so the taxes are high there. Three kids at a school?

That'll blow the house up.

We gone.

Yeah, that sounds hurtful.

It certainly is.

I got to take these kids out to eat every day?

No, no, no, no, no, You won the most fascinating moment for me from the Saints all year.

You close out the season with a... You're up 41 to 17 over the desperate Atlanta Falcons. We're about to fire their coach. And you're down at the one-yard line after an interception. And Jameis Winston dials up, unbeknownst to the coaching staff, a one-yard countdown for Jamal Williams. You win the game, 48-17. Arthur Smith is all annoyed afterwards. Dennis Allen doesn't know what to say. But then Jameis Winston tells everyone later, Look, we did it because everyone in the locker room wanted this to happen. Your reaction to that.

You tell me your version of what happened here. I'm so sorry. The locker room really enjoys being a brotherhood. Oh, my gosh. I'm so sorry that we punished a rival team. I would do it again. In fact, I would have gone for two. Now, the only thing I'm going to have discrepancy with is I didn't understand the ramifications. They're like, No, they were taking victory formation. So the Cantalana the Falcons had already acquiesced.

Oh, hell, yeah.

They were just trying to get out there just like their head coach was about to get out the Falcons.

You know what? I love that about... Greg went to two lanes, so he was a little more into the world there. Grew up in the Northeast. I didn't understand the true hatred between the Saints and Falcons until we started covering the sport more closely. We need more Saints, Falcons rivalries. What do you want me to do?

Good job. I'll see you next time, bud.

Right. When I saw Jameis, that clip that went viral last week on stage at the church as a pastor. I was like, Dennis Allen didn't have a chance against this guy. Of course, everyone's following Jameis Winston. Absolutely.

Half of my gripe was I was like, Dennis ended up saying sorry, and I was like, Why would you say sorry? I was like, You know what? He said, Sorry, we didn't go for 50. So sorry on you.

But here's the test, because after the game, Jameis was like, Listen, apologies to Coach, but we made a decision as a team.

Jamal has been an amazing team, an amazing player. Whatever they called his number, he's given all the juice, all the... Even giving up the possibility of accolades.

But is Dennis and James cool? Is James going to be there next year?

They should be. Now, James deserves to be a starter. That's fair. When you see the quarterbacks that played, I'm not knocking anybody, but we played the Chicago Bears, and it was not Justin Fills on the field. We played a guy in New York who who's agent was probably became more famous than he did. You're telling me Jameis, who's got the arm of every Titan's dream?

That's right. I forgot you all ended DeVito Insanity. I forgot that game.

I'm glad we weren't part of DeVito Insanity.

One thing, though, because I would imagine in San Francisco, the players would never do that to Kyle Shanaher. So I guess I'm asking from another angle, Dennis Allen? They wouldn't? I don't know.

But is it perceived as the players doing something to the coach or the players representing the players?

I think the people outside the locker room question, does Dennis Allen have this team in every possible way? Or is it like, We're going to go do what we want to do no matter who the coach is?

Would that happen if Sean Payton is the coach? I don't know. Absolutely.

Sean would have gone for that.

Sean would have gone for that. It wouldn't have been a victory for me.

But if Sean said no, if Sean said we're kneeling out.

I've seen us beat the brakes off the Philadelphia Eagles, and we're up by like 30 something, 40 something. He's looking around and it's clearly a time to take a knee, victory formation, and sees Malcolm Jenkins in the secondary, a legendary Saints player who had then gone to Philadelphia, and was like, Okay, over the top now. And we're up by like 30, 5, 40. And we're going up top. So I don't see Sean ever saying no to scoring more touch downs. Sean? Yeah. Drew Brees. Yeah. Say no to more touch downs.

Right. There you go.

That's like you have 100 bucks, and I'm about to give you 100 bucks, and your financial advisor is saying, We don't want it. We don't need it.

We talked about a lot on the show. There was a lot going on with the Saints, though, this year. They were just a strange team to figure out where... I'm friends with a lot of Saints fans, followed the coverage. And the fans sometimes were just like... Frustrated. They were frustrated in a way that was almost unusual for a team that was still in the mix in first place a lot of the years. And I think it was understandable that they were frustrated with all success that they had. And then after the season, a few things struck me.

Somehow we blew a 17-point lead to the Green Bay Packers.

That happened. I remember that. That was early. Mickey Loomis said something about after the season. This is what struck me, of that like, We need to do some changes maybe with the roster and personnel to improve the culture. And that comment was like, Hmm, improve the culture. Because when they hired Dennis Allen, they were like, We're keeping Dennis Allen because we want to keep this culture going. He's the guy that's been there and been running this defense. So what do you think Mickey Lewis is talking about there with the culture?

I've learned to not put my GM hat on. Okay. I've played this game and it never worked that well. I was like, Yeah, this is what we're going to do with the draft. This is how we're doing it. This is what our team needs, and have been completely wrong. So I was like, Yeah, we're going to get a defense bin. And then in the first round, we got a corner. And then we got back into the first round, and I was like, Oh, this is the D-end time. And then we went officer tackle, which It turned out to be a phenomenal draft. So you learn to shut the hell up and let the up top do what they're supposed to do. They're supposed to want more. If we're three years dry in the playoffs, maybe a culture shock needs to happen. I think there's a core group of our players that push positivity and whatever it is. In fact, I loved our locker room this year. But if our locker room isn't winning at a high rate, things are going to have to shake. One day they'll be like, Hey, Kam, it's your time, bud.

And I'm like, Hey, I the Saints keep on winning. Whatever it takes. I just want the Saints to win.

We'll close it out with a little legacy talk.

So I'm looking at-26 years of Jordan football there.

Pick which year you're talking about. Hell, yeah. Pro football reference, by the way. Your head shots, they're always on point. What do you got in store for this year?

I don't know.

I like the El Diablo look last year. That one was probably my favorite.

You're talking about the mustache twist? That was a few years ago. I still had a dread.

You and Jimmy Butler- I had a Jerry Curl after that one.

Now, I don't understand when Deion Sanders was like, It looks dry, but it's wet, or it was wet, but it looks dry. Whatever it was, I was like, I need that.

You got to top Jimmy Butler with the NBA. He's your version in the NBA doing Fallout Boy.

That was crazy. This year is like you're looking like your guy that maybe was on the airplane, and you let one go, and you're waiting to see if anybody notices.

No, this one was the Allen Iverson-inspired walkover.

Oh, the headband. Oh, 2001 final.

Scraping over Tyron Lou. But here we go.

So you have 117.5 career sets. Hallelujah. And the most ever by the Saints. And that is a team that has some big-time players in their history. Number one on the list is Bruce Smith. We're not going to get to 200. 200. But if you get to 123- He played 19 years. We saw him last night.

Still looked like he could play.

He looks like he's 37.

When I get to 125 this upcoming season, yeah.

I was going to say that puts you in the top 20, and that puts you in the club of the great late Derek Thomas, Dwight Freen, Yvonne Miller. Let's get in that top 20 and start scaling.

Dwight is what? 128?

Dwight had 125.5. To get into the top 20, math is at 123, which is what? Five and a half sacs next year? I think we could do that.

Just keep playing the Falcons.

It's time. As long as my ankle doesn't go out week 11, I have to go hob around for seven weeks. That's tough. I see myself doing that. The key is to stay... They say the best ability is availability. And although I played, I was not at my regular standard of living after In fact, at a dadgum Atlanta game. So you think I care about Atlanta?

How frustrating is that when your body won't listen to you?

It was a 10 car pile up and everything landed on my ankle.

All right. Well, hopefully next season, you stay healthy and your dominant force as you've been your whole career. Thank you, buddy. And yes, check out the Off the Edge. But now, listen, we don't always give massive endorsements of podcasts, but we're going to do it right here because Kam is the real deal. He's got obviously a big podcast future. So let's get on the carpet ride with him.

According to my people last night, I showed some dance moves. Maybe I quit this football thing and just go tap dancing for the rest of my life. I don't know.

Let's get in the top 20 first, and then let's do it. All right. Cameron Jordan. Thank you, buddy.

I appreciate you guys having me on. Thank you.

All right. Welcome back. It is time to pick the That game being Super Bowl 58. And let's go around the horn. Let's pick the game, and then while we're here, as per tradition, please share your sandwich prop for Super Bowl 58. We'll each have one. We should be hanging some money in here, right? I think we all know we should. It's a Super Bowl. So, Mark, get us going. How is this? And I think there's two things on the line here with you, Mark. Just think about this. As we learned yesterday, you did predict Niners Chiefs back in September.

Correct. I wouldn't call it a daring prediction, but I got it right. But you did. Yes.

And you deserve credit for that.

Yes. So much credit.

We have another situation going on as well. Unless I'm mistaken, do you have a win yet in the picks in the playoffs? Because this could be history also.

I don't think I've won since November.

I think you are win in your pick so far in the playoffs and the locks. So obviously, this is also our final lock of the week, lock of the season, second half standings on the line. Greg, a lot on the line in this game.

I don't think it's on the line anymore. You blew it.

I didn't blow anything.

You lost last time.

So that means you're one game up with one to play. Okay.

You could tie.

I also believe in my situation- And also I have the extra first-place vote, a la Stefanski, so it would go to me.

Yes.

There's an inglorious aspect to my situation that I I believe I'm notched at nine wins. You need to get the double digits. I was told that no one has ever finished with only nine wins.

All right, so there's a lot on the line. Let's see what he got, Mark.

All right, so this is what I predicted way back when. 49 Winners, 28. Chiefs, 24. But I want to explain how this game ends. Yeah, go ahead. Because the Chiefs, they've not allowed 31 points. It's all these... Their defense has been so tight. Kyle Shana hands... This is what I wrote for nfl. Com. Kyle Shana hands winding to lift the Lombardi crescendos on a February night in Las Vegas as Brock Purdy tilts Kansas City's defense for three scores and 400 plus yards. The play of the game, though, is San Francisco's 77-yard pick six of Patrick Mahomes that seals the deal with seconds to go in the final frame.

All right.

I love that. I love it, Mark. You are always looking to to wring it on the old horseshoe there. That's a needle to thread, but I believe in you.

I also like we're not all agreeing, and I'm picking the Chiefs. So I like we're on different sides. I'm locking up the Chiefs. 27-20 is my score. It's just under that number. I do think it's going to be more of a running and a little bit of defense game, so a little under that over-under. They're a dynasty. Some would say my locks title, staying at home in Santa Monica is a bit of a dynasty. It actually started this four lock trophies in five-year run by picking the Chiefs over and over over again. So I'm going to go back to the people that helped me get there. And sometimes we talked earlier in the week about Andy Reid and Patrick Mahomes and the journey that they've been on into becoming all-time greats. And sometimes that's all it is. It's just elevating at the big moments. In the season, Travis Kelsi was 4 for 13 on contested catches. In that game against the Ravens, 3 for 3. Mvs, you might not think of him as one of the great players, 3 for 14 all year in plus 20 air-yard type throws, 3 for 4 in the They're just playing better.

Look at the teams they beat. To beat the Dolphins and to beat the Bills and the Ravens in a row, that's a murderer's row. Dolphins, let's come back. Okay. Dolphins is a tough... The offense, I think the way that the defense stepped up. In frigid temperatures. It's totally fair. But they won that game easily. That competition they've been beating, to me, has been more impressive than the Niners, sneaking by. So I do like the Chiefs to really put the dot on this dynasty to get their third title. Good game, 27 to 20. But the 49ers, to me, they feel like supporting players in someone else's story.

All right. I'm annoyed now because I can't go against how I feel, and it's going to cost me the second-a-half title, but I'll live with that.

The second-a-half's co-title. Greg was always...

Well, I had that extra first-place vote. But it's going to show, once again, the level of integrity that I operate at all times. I'm I'm not going to change just because Greg went chalk, as he always does.

They're literally the underdogs for what it's worth. I mean, they're two-point underdogs. It's Greg chalk.

Everybody knows how you do your things. Okay, so congratulations on your titles. Whatever, okay? I do like the Chiefs here, and I got burned like so many other people picking against them.

Me too, by the way. I've been wrong.

In the AFC title game, I thought it finally was Lamar's year. I thought Baltimore was the better team. And I'm going to say it again here, I think the 49ers, as they are presently constituted, their best game, I think is better than the Chief's best game, the way their roster is constituted. If Brock Purdy, for instance, came into this game sharp, and he was hit and throws, and you get Caffee making plays, and you have all this talent that San Francisco has on offense, if their defense can just play a B game, they're going to be okay because Kansas City has shown, even during this great run in the playoffs, that they're not an explosive offense. They're still not one, even though they've had better success than they were having during a very difficult regular season. However, I just can't do it. I'm not going to be the guy that goes against Mahomes in this spot. I think he's going to find a way. And this was already here, Greg. I also have 27-20. So we have the same pick, the same score. Let's see what happens. I wrote on nfl. Com that I thought Mahomes wins another MVP, but it's going to be the Spag's defense that makes plays that are memorable.

The more I think about it, as I spin now to my sandwich prop, and we'll come back starting on my side with that, I think there will be an element of the offense having a big day. And one of the most maddening dumb story lines around this NFL season in our world emanating out of certain corners of news media is that the NFL is fixed, that the NFL is somehow this has been preordained Specifically, the corporate synergy on display between Taylor and Travis is a sign that the NFL would willed the Chiefs to this spot. Well, get your popcorn ready. People that love that conspiracy theory because I think Kelsey is going to have a monster game here. My sandwich prop is that Kelsey becomes the first player in Super Bowl history to surpass 200 yards receiving in a game since Jerry Rice went off for 2:15 in '23. Super Bowl 23, that is. That is my lock. Kelsey goes for 200, Taylor down on the field, Sparks flying, and everyone is mad. That's my pick. Everyone. Well, certain people.

Not everyone. I won't be mad, at least.

Certain people will be big mad.

I'm happy. They're happy. It seems like a beautiful relationship. I think they're in it to win it for the long run. I don't know if I could put a sandwich prop on their marriage at some point. That'd be very long term. But I like those odds. But I like the under 200 yards even You got to hang on you, bro. This is the Super Bowl. That's more than hanging. That's out there. That's beautiful. It's hanging brain.

I relish how the hordes of people are just looking past the 49ers because of a two-week sample size from the Kansas City Chiefs.

They're kidding? It's a very even in terms of how people are picking them. They're favorites. All the betters are taking the 49ers.

People just think that the Kansas City Chiefs are back entirely. It's like the larger sample size tells us that they were going to regress back to gaps, drops, some issues, some problems, and having to be that often.

Just like everyone thought that was going to happen in the playoffs, but it didn't.

But that's a straw man argument because the 49ers are literally favorites. And in terms of Vegas, like what they would say, the Sharps, all the money is coming in on the 49ers.

It's not a straw man in the sense that there has been a wave of support for the Chiefs that was simply not there two weeks ago. It's based on a two-week sample size, and it's not a false or a ghost, but- But it's not a two-week sample size. I think people are looking past the Niners in this situation.

It's like a five-year sample size. That's all. That's fair, too. And then them flipping the switch.

That's all. We were talking about the Chiefs a certain way for 18 weeks, and now we're talking about them differently for three weeks.

It's a different team now. Yeah.

But that's a presumption. And it's annoying. That that's exactly who they are from here on.

I'm with you. It's always very difficult in the playoffs, which do you balance more? And that connects with my sandwich prop. I'm going, Isiah Pacheco is going over 150 yards from scrimage in this game because I am waiting what I've seen the last handful of weeks from the 49ers defense. I think they're what sticks out most in this game, that they have not been up for the challenge. I don't care about the effort thing. That's like two players, essentially, and two players in very specific places. It's just that they've been mediocre. They've been mediocre in the biggest of spots. They should have lost that packers game. They were really outplayed in that game. They didn't play well in the Detroit game and got bailed out. The defense of the 49ers is the only reason I don't think they win this game. And so I'm going Pacheco over 150 yards from scrimmage.

You've been talking about that. All right, how about you, Mark?

Are you taking that? Are you taking that? Oh, yeah. We didn't do that for you. I'm taking yours. You took mine.

Are you taking- I will take yours.

I thought that was for all the time that we call certain things onion hangers in terms of the game situation. That's a huge one right there.

I mean, I'm probably doomed. That's a huge one. Will you guys buy me a sandwich if he goes for 184?

Well, then just lower the number. No, bro.

I'm going for it.

No, I think it's a nice round number.

Yeah, give me 200 first since Jerry.

I'll take yours, too. I think that yours is more probable if everything went right for the Chiefs.

Totally yards?

It could break off an 80 yarder at some point.

Still would be certainly long odds in terms of be like plus 300 or something.

I will take you up on it, but It's certainly within the range of outcomes. That's the other part, Mark. San Francisco's defense certainly could be exposed in this game.

That's true, but I would say their defensive woes are also more recent than the longer sample size. But I'm not big on their defense, but they gave up 60.

Wasn't it recent?

What matters the most? It is, but I'm just saying in two playoff games, they gave up 67 more yards on the ground than they had at any... Average-wise in the season. I honestly think that the come to Jesus talk from Steve Wilkes does matter. They lost their pride a little bit.

I'm usually with you, Mark. I'm usually the numbers over the season matter more. Look, the 49ers are favored. You just can't sell me on the no one believes in them argument. They're literally favored, and it's a coin flip. But I actually think you're making good If you're Peacocking at the end of Sunday, it wouldn't surprise me. This game, not much would surprise me. I think the 49ers, I agree with you, too, that their best game is best.

The other thing that doesn't matter is everything that came before this game. If I beat the both of you in this lot, that's all that anyone will remember.

You're the champ. I'll give you the... You want the trophy? Let's do a vote. I will purchase my own trophy. Who gets the trophy if...

I vote for me.

I vote for you, too.

Give Eric a vote, too. Eric, what about?

For one game. How many weeks have we had? I think I'm 17 and 4 right now. That might be a record. That might be a record.

By the way, I buy into #Effordgate. I don't even know if some of the Niners defenders are going to show up for the game. I'm lazy. I'm laying on the couch.

Wait, we didn't get your sandwich, Rob.

All right, so I'm going to do a very me thing because I got a symbol from the sky earlier this week that in Las Vegas this week, a player was bit by a coyote, according to some reports. I heard about that. A lot of people reaching out about that. Down by the lake. Right. That's something that I said would happen a while back. I often say things that will happen, and they happen down the road.

What did you say?

That a player would lose, I believe it was, a player would lose some playing time by being bitten by an animal. Now, in this case, it's a little bit off.

It's a little too specific.

We're casting a wide net at this point. I'm accepting that he probably did say that, but I don't even remember. I'm sure he did.

Well, people are reaching out to me and saying this is true.

I'm sure they are.

Well, listen, I understand how this works with you guys, but It's been too quiet in Las Vegas. It's been far too quiet.

Okay, I like this.

This city, it's Friday. All of this business, this nonsense, this look at me business is about to shut down, and it's about to become an explosion of human non-virtue and problems and bad choices and all sorts of stuff. I am telling you, I just think this energy will feed out to the entire NFL sphere that between now and the end of the game, what I would call a far-reaching NFL story. You know when we get those? It's like when Bountygate started, it's like, Oh, you know we're going to be reporting on this for the next three or four months? I'm not talking two weeks or one week, and then it disappears. It's like, This is going to go deep and going to go long and wide in terms of a story, a far-reaching NFL story that lasts for months will hatch before the game ends.

But it could only be within the confines of the four quarters?

Well, no. Or through the weekend? The minute I said this and the end of the game.

What if something has already happened? It just hasn't been reported yet?

I think that would qualify. Okay. Would it? Not if it happened in September, but if it happened- But when does it have to be reported by?

Sunday night?

No, I would say- The bet has to close.

The wager's got to close on the Sunday show.

In spirit, I would think that it would have to happen that we'd know about it by the end of the game. I'll go with that because I think otherwise-We need that.

Or by the end, by the time we get to this in the podcast, late Sunday night, which is hours after the game.

Stuff'sstuff's coming out.Stuff's coming out.Okay. When I say far-reaching NFL story, I think we can agree on one that if we were back on the news desk, you'd be thinking, Headache, headache, headache for weeks, months to come.

I had something similar cooked up, so that's why I'm not going to take you on it because I, too, believe something's going to happen.

Why would you not take me on that?

That's the most surprising. I have a feeling- That's the worst movie. Something newsworthy will move the needle, and yes.

Isn't it too It's too hushed.

It's too hushed.

Right. The 49ers having another alarm clock wake them up 15 minutes early does not qualify. It has to be massive. So I will take you up on this.

Cam Newton is walking behind us with a cigar in his hand. You can't do that. What is this? 1986?

I don't know. They're smoking in our hotel all over the place.

Are they?

Yeah, I walked down-Oh, it is Vegas. Yeah, I walked out of the hotel number 2.

It's the last bastion for smokers.

The old warhorse is smoking men's cigarettes.

All right, there you go. Those are our Super Bowl predictions. Those are our sandwich props. I stand with you on that one, Mark. Okay?

I'm glad that you do, because I think that suggests legitimacy.

All right. Let's take a break, and then we will welcome in certain members of a certain team of a certain podcast. Up next. Yeah, you heard it. Our guests now joining us from the Minnesota Vikings, Kirk Cousins and K. J. Osborne. Welcome to Around the NFL, fellows. And there's the chant. Can you picture it? It's almost your back inside the building.

I can feel it.

This is the best intro yet.

Best stadium, right?

Yeah, they hit a home run with it. Really well done.

Kirk, KJ, tell us what you're doing here with Bounty. Let's get into that.

Well, you can't have... We've got some wings that we've set up at these different stations, and you really can't have wings without having Bounty paper towels. It's true. So we're really understanding a lot of people on Sunday watching the Super Bowl are going to have wings, they're going to have parties, they're going to have all kinds of good food. But make sure you don't forget about the Bounty paper towels, because I've hosted some parties through college, through the years, where I forgot the paper towels, and it's a problem.

You can't have football without wings.

What if somebody brings the wrong paper towels? Did you just kick them out of the party? Oh, yeah, for sure. Bounty only.

Yeah, it has to be bounty. You're out.

It's not going to work.

It's not I've always felt that.

I agree. Tell us a little... Here's a little... This is our 11th season at ATN, and every year we pick a team of around the NFL. This year we picked the Vikings, and it was after Kirk's injury, and we said, let's get behind this as an underdog story. It didn't quite work out, but we had your backs all season long. We want you guys to know that. I love that. I appreciate it, man. What's going on with the Achilles? I know you've been asked that 7,000 times. Where are you at?

Yeah, so I'm three months in, probably got about four months to go. I'm hoping I can get back. I expect to be able to get back for seven on seven in OTAs because you're safe there. You're just taking your drop back with nobody around you, making the throws. I'm hoping to be able to do team drills, too, but we'll cross that bridge when we get there and then go into the summer break, fully cleared, fully healthy. But the first three months has been a positive experience. I was nervous because I haven't had surgery before. I haven't had big rehab, but the surgery, coming out with a cast, and the scooter and then the walking boot and now getting back in a shoe. It's been a real positive process. The Vikings training staff has been outstanding, and it's been a good first three months.

Yeah, KJ, I know at this point in the season when we chose you as a team of around an NFL podcast, clearly it made big-Team. Oh. I think we just blew out everyone's ears. Sorry, guys. No, that was awesome. We're doing our best. I am so excited that it happened.

Eric, you're fired. I'm sorry.

The team of ATI, I'm sure that was big news in the locker room, you guys talking about it. We're now an international award-winning podcast. How did that feel to be embraced by the podcast with Josh Dobbs and all the different quarterbacks that went through there?

Oh, we love it. We love it. Any love we get, man, we love it, we appreciate it. And we got a great fan base up there in Minnesota, so they show us a ton of love as well.

What was that like, that end stretch of the season, which had some It was awesome ups? It had downs. It had a little bit of everything throughout that stretch. And you're without your leader, Kirk, but you have different quarterbacks who come in and all had their moments. And then what was that whole season like? Because it feels like the Vikings are always a lot. No matter what, there's a lot going on. It's a fun team to watch, the ups and a little bit of downs.

Yeah, man, it was a lot of ups and downs, but whoever coach puts in there, that's who we're going to rally around. And one of the things in the receiver room, we say we try to be wide open. So try make the job easier for the quarterback, man. We talk about the 40 seconds before the play clock that you guys don't hear on TV and everything like that, and the pre-snaps and the motions and everything like that. If we are up on our game as a receiver, we can help the quarterback out. And again, just being wide open for him. And any guy that coach puts in there, we're going to trust him.

Kirk, can we talk a little. I don't know if you've heard that thrown around.

I haven't heard that thrown out. That's good to me.

I really think, obviously, it's a well-known thing. A year ago in honors, you came out as Kirko Chains in the famous this team playing moment. I really feel like, and tell me if you agree or disagree, from our standpoint on the outside, it was like a turning point in how Kirk Cousins was seen. It was like, Oh, these guys love playing with him. You've always been well known as a good guy and a productive player. But did you feel like a change from the outside a little, how you're seen after that took off a little bit?

Yeah, it was interesting. If I had known that, I probably would have been on a plane shirtless with chains on in year two or three. But It took till year 11 to figure that out. So no, it certainly has created a bit of a change. I think I've always been the same guy, but perception was probably different than reality, and perceptions may be catching up to reality in some ways. And so that's where we stand now.

Kj, viewing Kirk as his teammate and as the leader in your huddle, did you all watch the Netflix show? And was there anything from it that you guys gave him some grief about from the Netflix show? I think a lot of people ended up loving that show and love Kirk in it.

I loved it. I got a lot of feedback from family and friends.

We were trying to keep it a secret during the season. So we were trying to be low key. We didn't want it to be a distraction. So if anything, the grief I got was we didn't even know.

You didn't tell us.

You didn't tell us.

We didn't know. It was a little fishy because there was always cameras up at practice. I'm like, That's not the team. I'm like, Somebody's miced up every day, but nobody... Usually that stuff gets out, but it was a big secret. That was a good secret.

Yeah, that was such a great look. And I think maybe that also played into the Kercasants a little bit. I think it did. I think it did. And just seeing the dedication it takes. And after the season ended in the playoffs, you getting up early and spending the time with the family. I think it's good for people that haven't played the game to see the human side. And that show did such a great job of that.

Yeah, that was the fun of it, was that we do cover a lot of the football. Maybe this show can cover the football and. I think the and was what was so fun about it.

My kid loves that show. He has an hour of TV. He gets to watch a day, and he's choosing to watch that show. You're raising him well. Right, which boggles my mind.

He forces his child to watch football content 24/7.

We're raising our kids the same way.

I've seen the ex-players at NFL Network, how they train their kids to become NFL players. It's not going to happen with my body. So I'm training him to be a podcaster. There you go. Now, you guys are here as teammates. Your futures are somewhat up in the air going into... Have you ever thought, KJ, of seeing what Kirk's done as a businessman in his career. He's great. He's gotten it done. Maybe you combine forces, combine the leverage, you're stronger together as a free agent tandem.

Just the thought here. I've never even thought of that. Go to a free agency as a group, as a team, not as an individual.

You seem like a friends guy, Kirk. Did you watch Friends?

Friends is a little bit ahead of my time, and it never really resonated with me. So you totally mispegged me there.

I'm not a friends guy. I'm sorry and apologize. It's a bad job by me. But they had an ingenious move where the six main cast members negotiated together. All they did. We get the same amount of money. We go to the same place. Kj, align with QB1 here. It's been done before.

It worked out. It was a record-setting show. Maybe we try the same thing. I would not be against... If I had to pick someone to team up with to do that, the guy to my right would be someone I would pick. So that's a good idea.

How does it feel like this time here is just an awkward time? It is. It's a good work for it. When you're a little in between for both of you, just I guess, how are you feeling? What are you thinking going into it as free agent?

Yeah, we said March is the month, and we're in February, and the season end of January seventh. So you really have two months of no news, and you're not supposed to have news. It's just a waiting game, and that's okay. So you have a lot of people asking about it when you run into them in town, and they want to know the updates, and I say, I don't have any updates. I'll let you know March seventh, eighth, ninth, 10th. That's when things will start to heat up. Until then, there's no reason to have news because you really shouldn't. All right. Go ahead.

This is my first time doing it. So I'm going through it. I'm learning. And I'm asking my agent, I'm asking guys, and it got to be something you hear. It got to be something. And I'm finding out the same way as Kirk is saying. It just doesn't happen until it Well, I'll say, and we're going to let you guys go because we know you're busy.

But I've always had a... I grew up a Jets fan. I wanted you to sign with the Jets a few years back. I remember that. That never happened. But I feel like you found a home in Minnesota. You guys have great chemistry as teammates. A lot of big time. Let's run it back. Stay in Minnesota. We don't need it. But get paid. Do the friends thing. Get paid. Do the friends thing. All right. Kirk Cousins, KJ Osborne. Thanks, guys. We appreciate it. Great seeing you. All right, there goes us, Kirk and KJ. And Mark's back in the picture. We should have mentioned that Mark stepped out because there's not a lot of mics. Mark needed a blow.

I thought it was a little weird that Mark is still so anti-Munnesota Vikings from what happened with a team of Around the NFL. He did a walk-off. He refused to interview, but it's nice to welcome you back.

Well, I feel like I could tell that I was missed. It's really evident. It was just more talk space for the two of you. And so fine. Have a nice time with it.

All right. So Mark is back, though, because we have one more guest. And this is a little pop for this guest that it's the final guest of Super Bowl Week at Radio Row. That shows how much we care and love Nikki Glazer.

The drags.

Friday is always the big spot.

Nikki Glazer, who is a tremendously talented stand-up comedian and host, and you're doing it all. A podcast host. You have your own podcast that is emanating out of this very spot. Right after we finish up, you're also You're going to be on it? I can't wait. I can't wait. And you're touring relentlessly, making that guap. So check out Nikki's tour dates on-Tableside Guap. Yeah, wherever, on all the socials. Nikki Glazer, welcome to Around the NFL.

Thank you so much for having me. It's an honor to be here.

This is like a weird thing. Yeah, we go way back. We go way back. Nikki and I, I remember...

It's not weird for Mark and I. It's pretty normal.

No, but I want to know more.

So way back in like 2008, when Nikki I was first like fresh from St. Louis and college, and I was coming to LA to work with our buddies Bob and Jason Zumwalt, and they were doing these videos and doing great stuff. Nikki was a fan as well of the work they were doing for the Post-Show, which was really fun stuff.

Well, I met your friend Bob. I was drunk in college one night, and I was a big fan of Best Week Ever. Bob worked on Best Week Ever. I followed the Best Week Ever blog on VH1. Bob did the blog. He had also posted his AIM screen name on the blog. And because I was a super fan, I was like, I'll just add him to my buddy list. So one night in college, I came back to my dorm, I was a little drunk, and I was like, He's on? I'll just instant message him back in I heard the door open. Then I became friends with him from just AIMing him once. Then he put me in some of his sketches when I went to New York. Collie was trying to make something happen romantically. Never did.

How could you resist? I know Bob.

I don't know how you resisted There was a rooftop moment where I think we could have kissed, but I really... I have a way of putting up a wall that lets people know, Don't even try anything.

To keep their dignity. Yes, it's important.

I have friends who get hit on all the time where I'll just be with them and guys will just be like, Hey, are you going to finish all that salad? Guys will just say something. Don't do the salad bit. I was walking with my friend in the park and some guy was just like, Hey, do you dance? And he's leaning against his motorcycle and he just- What's wrong with us? And he just 20 feet away from It goes, Do you dance? And he's not talking to me. I go, Do people just ask you if you dance? And then she's like, Oh, my God. No, I don't. I go, Stop talking to us, sir. I think I put up a wall with people.

That's good, though. It's a skill.

Like a friendzone thing because I like being friends with men, and I don't want a weird thing to get in the way of that until I choose.

I'm checking notes at the moment just about the tree thing and the leaning against the tree. We're learning.

Just leaning? Don't do it. I put up a similar wall. It's why I really haven't gotten much attention from the ladies this week, but it's just obvious the walls.

No one's ever asked me to dance in the park, and I know it all connects.

Yes, it's all the same. No one asked me either. I had to explore it and go, Why am I not getting these?

You had a Comedy Central show that Bob was a head writer on. We're all connected. I was in that world working with the guys in 2008, and we became friends. I remember because I was broke, you were broke, too, I'd imagine at the time. I remember taking our buddy Brian's car, and I would drive you to stand up sets occasionally. It would be... It's a... This is all in Hollywood. It was a full circle moment. It's so great to have you here. The reason why it was perfect, it was a lot of reasons why it was perfect.

Why are Greg and I here?

I don't know, but I love having you guys are- I'm literally in between you, two of the greatest football minds in a country. The reason I thought it'd be a lot of fun is number one, you are a big Taylor Swift fan.

That's where I feel I do belong here. Other Otherwise, I would feel like such a fraud, and I would be really embarrassed to be here because I don't like being places I don't belong. I feel because of my Taylor Swift knowledge, even though most people would disagree with that, I do feel like this is the only year in which I belong here.

Yeah, and I remember when we got to know each other, because I've always been a sports guy, you were very anti-sports. Keep the sports away from me.

Because I'm scared of what I don't understand, Dan. It's not because I hate what I don't know, and I don't seem really understand football, and it's been explained to me many times. I'm starting to understand it, but I just don't understand how millions of people understand this very complicated game, like second nature. There's no training you guys go through. I always ask my friends, So where did you learn that that is... When did you learn what offsides were? Did you ask your dad? Was there a course in school? You guys start playing football as little kids. Do they explain all the little intricacies of it?

How do you learn all these It's a daunting sport to jump into the water cold.

Video games is a big part of it.

Madden was a big thing. That explains it. Here's a data point. Sure. So Deschriver mentioned a report from APEX Marketing Group that estimated more than 330 million in brand value. Taylor Swift is brought to the NFL and the Chiefs. I don't know what really any of that means, but I do know that Swift and the NFL is on people's radar because it is these two massive giants of culture. And you are someone now, you're watching the games. Are you amongst the maybe millions of people that are now watching football for the first time? Would you continue to watch it if she wasn't involved?

Yeah, I think so. Well, because it also lined up the time when Taylor When I started going to games was also when my boyfriend moved in with me, and he's a huge football fan and watches most of it. That was when it just started being on all the time. Just to enjoy being around that, I had to start understanding it. I think that he was gone watching a game recently, and I turned on the game, and Taylor wasn't even there because I did care, and I felt so cool. Because for the first time in my life, I was on the phone with a friend who was going through a breakup, and I'm talking to him on speakerphone. I have the game on mute. I felt so cool because for the first time in my life, I was on the phone with a friend who was going through a breakup, and I'm talking to him on speakerphone. I have the game on mute. I felt so cool because at one point, he's crying about something, I go, No. I did the thing that men do where they react, and then the person on the phone goes, What's going on?

You go, Oh, I can't believe she said that to you or texted you that. I felt so cool that I had a man moment where you react to, and not just men, but mostly, react to something that happened, and I understood what was happening. It's been an education, but it's 100 % based on Taylor Swift. And I will say that I'm one of these people that has an unhealthy relationship in my mind with her of She's like, My friend, or whatever. And I know that disgusts some people and confounds people as well. But it truly is a thing. When she won last week at the Grammys, I felt this like, Oh, it's like my friend is winning. I felt that joy, and I thought, That's so ridiculous.

That's what she's pulled off.

She's not my friend. I don't know her. Why do I feel this? Is that really how I feel? Then I go, Actually, I've had friends win Emmys, and it's the exact same feeling that I had. I do feel like she's my friend. When she first started dating Travis, I was like the Travis.

I just like your first name basis with him. It's great.

That's where we're at as 50s, I think. When Travis, when Travis, she first, when he first gave the friendship bracelet, I remember being so annoyed and being like, who does he think he is? And him being like, I wanted to meet her after, but she was too busy. And it's just like, Yeah, she's... Because I didn't know anything about him. I just thought he was just some guy and was getting headlines because he talked about her. So I was like, because This is a thing. If you talk about Taylor Swift, you'll get your face next to hers in some headline if you say anything.

We're aiming for it right now.

Exactly. I've never done that intentionally, but yes, I get my name next to hers on headlines sometimes because I have a lot of opinions. But I just thought it was his attempt to But he's not like that at all. It comes to find out, And it worked, is the wild thing that that worked, being that bold. When she first got with Travis, I was like, Oh, no. She's going to be a football girly. I've never related to girls that like football. I'm losing her. It's like when my friends have kids, I'm just like, I won't relate to them anymore. We won't care about the same things. Then I said, Try to let this in. I was able to. I feel like she If she ever has a baby, though, that's when I'm out.

That's where I go. You're moving on at that point.

I can't have a baby.

It's too much. It's a bridge too far. She gone. Yeah, she gone.

A little Kelsey baby. But yeah, I'm into it now. I feel like the two groups, you should see When football fans are like, Why would Taylor Swift fans get so into this or follow this person around that they don't even know and get emotionally involved? I'm like, there's a 70,000 person stadium of people who's entirely entire weeks or months or lives or years are going to rise or fall based on what happens on that field. And whenever we're in person, it always strikes me as like, oh, yeah, these are just other people doing this thing, and they actually have no relation to me whatsoever. And the people on the Patriots really aren't that different than the people on the Colts, even though I've built up in my mind. It's like we're having the exact same pair of social relationships. It's nice to put yourself into something that you have no control over.

Thank you for saying that, because I've always That's what I've envied about sports fans, is that you have this community and this passion and this thing where you can get so excited about these events you look forward to. And I just never had that until I became a Swift. And suddenly I have this community of people where we're all rooting for the same thing. That's nice. I like that. It feels really good. And yeah, the only place she plays now are places that are made for football. So it's like it is the same thing. There's a connection. It's a huge connection. Everyone dresses up. But I've been to 10 nine eras concert tours in the past year, and I'm going to three next week. So I'm going to... Where? Australia. Look at you. I know. I didn't go there for it. I'm just there for a wedding, and she happens to be there, so I'm going. But people go, How could you go that many times? People go to see games that many times, but my team always wins.

Always.

There's no disappointment.

I find a comparison here because when I was very young, I'd moved back from England I know these guys are tired to hear about this, but my mom woke me up one morning in 1984, and we went down and watched the very old television set. It was the Charles and Die wedding. It started at four in the morning, and we sat there and I'll never forget watching that. And I think with where our culture is a little bit, that this is the perfect our version of Charles and Diana a little bit on some level. But my question more would be, because it makes so much sense culturally for the football star to date the rock icon. And maybe the roles are a little reversed. She's the royalty. But do you think the rock icon would date someone who podcasts about football stars? Would that have the same hold over the culture?

It's an important question.

I think we will love whoever she loves. But this is certainly playing into... She's always been the... She has a song called 15, where she's like, You'll do things greater than dating the boy on the football team. Where it's like, she has all these illusions throughout, I wear short skirts, she's on the blue shirt, all that stuff. It's all been leading to this. I do think it will last a really long time. I don't think it'll last forever because I don't think many things do, especially with the pressure of... But I think that this will go the distance. I think they'll have kids. I think they'll get married and all that. I don't think there's a proposal coming.

You want to put a sandwich on it? Yeah. All right. I'd love to. We do sandwich props, but they will have children. Yes.

I will get an announcement 2025, December of a baby on the way.

I like that. Nikki's hanging an onion on the show.

There'll be a- Very Mark-like to get too specific. Let me predict it now. Wedding, summer of 25, announcement of baby in December.

That's a beautiful prediction. By the way, do you have our opening? Because I think she might recognize the voice. I think Nikki will like this. Let's see. It's a test.

Oh, I know who this is already.

The Around the NFL podcast.

Jason's on, Walt.

That's it. This is such a fun, cool thing to have Nikki here. By the way, check out Nikki on the Good Girl If you're at the wedding and see, your Fame is reaching levels where it's like, I got a million Instagram followers, and my friend is getting married in Australia. I'm going to go. If you can go to Australia for the wedding and then catch Taylor a few times, Nikki, I'm proud of you, I guess is what I'm saying as a friend.

I've spent $30,000 on two of these. I'm getting some here and there. I get a little deals or insider. You can buy tickets for $700 instead of $7,000, but I'm not getting any shortcuts from my Fame. I don't think I want to be friends with her.

Okay, it would ruin it. It's too heavy. Yeah, it's too heavy. You're also the host of FYI, which Mark, I know you audition for. I'm sorry, Mark. Maybe next time.

We can't allow shirts in the swimming pool. You refuse to take it off.

Take it off, Mark. Finally, the Nicki Glazer podcast, which I think about to do with you.

Yes, I'm so excited. Awesome.

That wraps up our week of shows here at Radio Road. Next time, you hear from us, it will be the flagship program, Super Bowl Super Bowl 58. Check it out. I mean, if you listen to these shows, you're going to listen to that. I don't need to sell it. Listen. Thank you to everybody. Thank you to all our guests. Thank you, everybody, behind the scenes. Eric, thank you, bud. Great week by Eric. We had four Old Fashions with Eric and even guilted Rosenthal into one. That was a big development also. Highlight of the week, guys.

Highlight of the week.

All right. Love you, buddy. Thanks, everybody. Till Sunday. Heet the call.