There. Now, let's talk about stress at work. Do you experience it in the workplace? Has the working world become less stressful post-pandemic as more people flex to a hybrid working model with less time in the office, fewer commuter hours? Well, this week is Stress Awareness Week with a focus on mental health in the workplace. How are we doing? Well, let's find out. Anna Elian-Tambi joins me now, Director of Healthy Leadership. Good morning to you, Anna. Now, I'm guessing you don't experience stress in the workplace, or do you?

No, I do. I have. I've retired now, but I do experience stress now, and I certainly did when I was working. It's part of life, I think, for us to experience stress.

It can't be avoided, and sometimes it's necessary evil, isn't it, for whatever reason.Yes. But in general, in the working world, are people more stressed today or less when you compare to, say, pre-pandemic?

The levels are actually higher, Sally. Right now, there was some research done last year and this year that's showing that stress levels globally, not just for working people, but for everybody, are higher than pre-pandemic levels. They haven't gone down yet. People's mental health and Wellbeing is also down, unfortunately, for a variety of reasons.

Talk us through the reasons why then.

Some of it is the global uncertainty that exists right now in terms of the economics, and we're hearing about conflicts and stuff. Some of the stress is linked to work, especially around remote work and hybrid working. When you're working remotely, the stress level is a little higher than if you're in the office because you may have more problems It may be difficult to solve problems. You've got less collaboration, perhaps. You're also dealing with home pressures more than you would if you were in the office. You may not be getting the support you needed or the resources that you need. So a lot of reasons. But stress levels are higher across the board.

So what can be done about that then? Because one of the conversations, and we all discussed it at length, and I'm sure you did as well, was post-pandemic, how can we improve the workplace? There's been such a dramatic change for so many people who were forced to be at home, who weren't necessarily used to working at home. Some people really welcomed that change, and it helped them with their whole work-life balance, picking up children after school, all these things. But as you say, stress levels have gone up, not down. So what do we need to do now?

I think from the organizational point of view, in terms of where organizations want people to work, I think the first question they should ask is, what's the work that we need to achieve our purpose? And then look at where and negotiate that with staff rather than imposing your version of what flexible working is. From the individual person's point of view, is to make sure that you You are looking after your self-care, you are maintaining a plan for yourself and your family. Also, when you move into the organization, make sure that the organization has things in place that are meaningful, that are useful, that is what people want beyond counseling, and allow people to look after themselves rather than trying to ignore it. It just won't go away.

Anna, are organizations really trying to help, or are they just, I want to use the word greenwashing, just talking about mental health in the workplace, but actually they're not really that bothered? Do you see a real shift in terms of managers and leaders on this?

Sometimes, yes, but I think it's a number of things. I think it was big in COVID times. My team doubled in COVID times, but I think it's now off the agenda. Some people who mean it and who do care about their staff are offering meaningful interventions, but sometimes what's offered is not what staff want. Some people are ignoring it. It's very variable, unfortunately, and with some of the cutbacks going on in organizations, they are actually also cutting back or even stopping intervention.

One of my stresses, Anna, is getting off air on time being a live program. It's my daily stress moment. I'm going to have to say goodbye to you. Thank you for getting up so early. We do appreciate.