Well, in the United States, at least one person was arrested when demonstrators calling for a ceasefight in Gaza protested outside the headquarters of the Democratic National Committee on Wednesday night. The US Capitol Police said six of their officers suffered injuries after being pepper-sprayed and punched. The demo's organizers said at least 100 participants suffered injuries. With us on the program tonight, the former US ambassador to Egypt, Frank Wiesner, who served for many years in the US State Department. Ambassador, you're very welcome to the program. Thank you for being with us. The splits in the United States over what is happening in Gaza are starting to come to the fore. You just heard from the UNRA representative there saying we can't get the aid to where it is needed in Gaza from tomorrow onwards because we don't have the fuel. How difficult does this make it for the White House, particularly in terms of its relations in the region?

It is a terrible situation, however you look at it and from whatever vantage point you begin. The White House is in a tight corner, so is the government of Israel, so is the population of Gaza. We're all in a terrible, terrible fix. I can only hope that the problem we're facing right now will be somewhat alleviated with the notion of a pause and then followed by the delivery of fuel and increased amounts of humanitarian aid. But the stories that we're all listening to are just horrific. There's no question about it. It impels everyone to double down and do what's possible to bring alleviation to this dreadful situation.

Well, I want to talk about that because it seems the Biden administration strategy was to keep the Israelis close, hug them close, support them, build up political capital so that they could restrain them when the time was right. That's not paying off, is it? The Israeli war cabinet has certainly welcomed the support and now is resisting the political pressure to pause. How problematic is that for the President?

Well, you're speaking about a negotiation that is ongoing between Washington and Jerusalem, and I really cannot tell you what exactly is happening, but I know what American policy is, and that is to bring a situation, this current terrible situation to alleviate the suffering that's underway, to get the hostages out, to bring humanitarian assistance in, to pause the combat in order to enable this, and then to move on beyond to a different outcome. That's American policy, where we're actually at any given moment in our dialog with the Israelis or with any party. Obviously, I just don't know.

President Herzog, the Israeli President, said in an interview with the Financial Times today that Israel can't leave a vacuum in Gaza after the war and will need a very strong force to prevent Hamas from reemerging. If we pull back, he says, then who will take over? President Biden said again yesterday that a reoccupation of Gaza would be a mistake. What, from your perspective, and you know the region so well, what, from your perspective, would Gaza look like in the aftermath of a war?

Well, this is, of course, the central next question, not the final one, but what takes over in Gaza if there is an end to open and hostilities. All I can tell you at this stage is there are no easy answers. The Israelis should not stay in. Hamas would not be in a position to manage the territory. No UN agency has the strength to do that. The Palestinian authority is too weak to take that on. No coalition of Arab governments is going to put themselves in harm's way without a political context and step into the Gaza nightmare. So we don't know the answer to your question. It's a profoundly important one at this stage and with combat still in an intense phase, it's hard to answer that.

Ambassador, good to have you on the program this evening. Thank you.

Pleasure to have been with you. Thank you.

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