The assassination of President John F. Kennedy is the greatest murder mystery in American history.

That's Rob Reiner. Rob called me, Soledad O'Brien, and asked me what I knew about this crime.

We'll ask who had the motive to assassinate a sitting president. Then we'll pull the curtain back on the cover up. The American people need to know the truth.

Listen to Who Killed JFK on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hi, I'm Daniel Tosh, host of a new podcast called Tosh Show. I'll be interviewing people that I find interesting, so not celebrities and certainly not comedians. We'll be covering topics like religion, travel, sports, gambling, but mostly it will be about being a working mother. If you're looking for a podcast that will educate and inspire or one that will really make you think this isn't the one for you, listen to Tosh Show on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.

My name is Payne Lindsay. Throughout my career, I've had the chance to travel all over the place investigating true crimes, researching the unexplained, and I've been able to meet some of the most truly interesting people. I've decided to sit down with them and pick their brains. We're going to talk about life, death, unsolved crimes, the supernatural. There's something here.

Truly.

Something.

Going on. Honestly, just whatever the hell is on our minds. Wait a minute. You should be.

Very happy. You want to?

This is Talking to Death. New episodes of Talking to Death are available now. Listen on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Callzone Media. Welcome back to Behind the Basedards, the only podcast around. If you're listening to another podcast, I'm sorry, but.

You have lost your mind and.

Are hallucinating.

Whatever crazy characters. There's no such thing as.

Joe Regan.

Not a one in the real world.

Just me. And, of course, Sophie, my producer, and our guest for today.

Ed Zitron.

Ed is a tech.

Industry journalist and columnist.

With.

The.

Newsletter Where's Your Ed At, one of my.

Favorite people to read on the internet.

Ed, welcome to the show for the.

First time.

What's up? Happy to be here.

Yeah. Now, Ed, have you ever hallucinated a podcast?

I mean, I've recorded quite a few and forgotten them almost immediately. So possibly- That's just.

Called recording.

A podcast. That's broadcasting. You just experience amnesia in real time.

Yeah, exactly. Perfect. We'll have people come on our subreddit sometimes and be like, You should do this guy. I'll be like, Oh, yeah, that'd be a great topic. Then someone will post like, No, they covered in three years ago. I'll go, Oh, yeah.

I.

Remembered that for sure. That's generous.

Sometimes.

It's like, Hey, remember.

That thing you said in.

The podcast that you recorded yesterday?

It's like.

Absolutely not.

I will read my work back sometimes and laugh at my own jokes. That's one of my favorite tricks. Just because I'm.

Like, Well, this guy's great. That's not bad.

Don't remember writing these words.

Sound extremely healthy. Much funnier than me. Jeez.

I got to get him on the show.

Ed, elephant in the room.

You live in Vegas.

But you come.

From a.

Little island.

Across the sea.

Yes. Yeah.

How do you feel.

About.

The British aristocracy?

I feel terrible about them. I do not like them. I think we give them more than one pound, so that's too many. I do not see what they do other than take up press and get away with dressing up like Nazis and also being related to them in some cases. I find them a frustrating group, and I find the lionization of them disgusting.

Oh.

Well, then you're going to- So no real opinions.

You're going to love this episode then. This is going to be a slow burn. The first episode is largely going to be setting stuff up for our listeners. Not going to be as much bastardry until we really hit episode two, in which case it's going to come out hard and fast. But there's a lot.

You have to establish in this episode because.

We're talking about...

Have you ever heard of a guy named.

Lord John Aspinol?

I've not.

Have you heard of his.

Close friend, the lucky Lord Lucan?

I.

Have. This was.

A big.

Story, right? In the '70s.

Well, my parents in their house, they have this weird space above their washing machine. For years, we've referred to it as Lord Lucan's house because in England, it's like, where the hell did Lord Lucan go? We've spoiled.

The episode. Yeah.

We've ruined the whole episode and given it away.

Yeah, no, that's a beautiful piece of dry humor.

We'll say upfront, right?

Like, Lord.

Lucan is a guy who committed a.

Terrible murder. Yes. He's Lord, obviously, and.

Then disappeared. We will.

Be talking about what happened and how it relates.

To our subject today.

Who is his buddy. The guy who robbed the generation of the British.

Aristocracy who.

Came of age in the '40s, robbed them all blind because he was a casino, Maven.

That's Lord Aspenol.

He also helped invent the modern zoo in a pretty.

Irresponsible way, but.

Still, zoos. This is going to be a fun episode, but yeah, I feel like we can get started now. He's not a dude I think.

Most.

Americans will have heard of. A lot of what we'll be doing is setting stuff up, which means we get to talk about the public school system in the UK, which will be fun. Also, all these people are fascists, straight-up Hitler-loving Nazis, as you alluded to at.

The very start of this.

Yeah, but most of England, that's the thing that I think that people don't realizeabout, I say this is a British Jew, the thing people don't realize around the horrors of the Holocaust and such. It wasn't like it was great being Jewish anywhere. Yeah. It's just... And so it's like when you find out someone in British history was a fascist, you need to go the other way around. Who wasn't?

Most of.

Them were nine people.

Yeah, who was on the right side of that?

Certainly not John.

Victor Aspinol.

Who was born in Delhi, then part of the British Raj on June 11th, 1926.

His mother.

Was a lady named Mary.

Grace Horne. She was the daughter of a.

Highly regarded colonial official named Clement Horne. Clement built bridges in.

India, right? That was his job. Right. They're not aristocrats, right? But they are.

Upper middle class, verging on rich. Within the colonial system.

They have a lot of clout. Now, that's not the same as being.

Somebody who's.

Considered in the ruling class back home, right? But it's a.

Pretty significant position over in India.

Now, Mary's father was the dude who was pretty.

Openly disappointed in her for being born a girl, not an uncommon.

Situation in this time. And she.

Grew up knowing that.

She was going to be basically.

A child in her father's control her whole life until she married. So as soon as she gets a chance, she jumps out of home and she.

Marries this guy.

Robert who is a surgeon who joined the Foreign Service to see the world.

Their marriage wasn't great. They don't actually really like each other, but they have a kid together.

Named Chip.

And.

After having Chip, Mary starts cheating on him.

Straight away.

She meets.

A young military officer, a lieutenant, and the two of.

Them conceive their.

Second child.

Our subject for today.

John Aspenal.

Underneath the shade of a tamarind tree, which is romantic.

That's a romantic tree to have sex under, I feel like, a tamarind tree.

Makes nice fruit. It's a romantic tree to do it under. Yeah.

I don't know, Redwood is probably top of the trunk in this.

Yeah, redwood, I would say. The smells are great.

But no fruit. Anyway.

No fruit.

Yeah, John's a tamarind baby.

Now, I.

Got two big sources for this series.

One, both.

Of them.

Are biographies of John. One of them is.

This fawning.

1988 book by.

Bryan Masters that's literally titled The Passion of John Aspenal.

What? It's like the '80s as well, so history has already described this guy as a.

Monster, I'm guessing. Yeah, he's a monster.

Literally, he.

Did two things. One of them was run.

A zoo.

That killed a shitload of people, and the other of them was run a.

Massive gambling hall.

One.

Thing I'll give the.

Us.

And I won't.

Give us much, but when we have people who build casino empires, we're pretty open about like, Yeah, it was just a gangster. Yeah, that dude was a fucking gangster.

Yeah, but also we lionize pieces of shit all the time. We just don't do it as directly as we do back home.

No. We lionize.

Them- Oh, shit. Enter up.

Pride and joy. Yeah, we lionize them for being gangsters. Alex Jones being like, Trump is mobbed up, and then you should definitely vote for him.

Yeah. Yeah. God. I do think that England makes a special bastard, though, because you look at American history, you've got tons of monsters, as this podcast is told, I'm sure, but England makes a certain piece of shit. We brew them special. It's not just enough to defraud people and kill people. It's we need to do so with a little bit of mustard on it and walk better away than a fucking zoo.

Yeah, that is a zoo. I've been wanting to talk about... There's an Adam.

Curtis documentary.

Called The Mayfair set that covers a.

Number of.

The people we'll be talking about. It's going in some.

Different directions because.

It's a lot broader in its purview. But there's a lot of these, because the guys who are John Aspenol's friends who we'll talk about are sponsoring.

Coups in a bunch.

Of different countries, and I want to be able to talk.

About more.

Of them, but you.

Have to get this.

Grounding in the social.

Society that they.

Come from before you can explain much about why they got.

To do the.

Things that they got to do. So Aspenol is.

The center of.

All that, and that's why we're starting with him this week. The other biography I read about.

Him is a 2007 book called The gamblers by.

John Pierson. And yeah, it's a lot better.

Pierson wrote a biography of Ian Fleming.

He is a professional.

Journalist as well as.

A biographer, and he does a lot better job of being critical to the subject. But yeah, Masters, his book doesn't mention the fact that Mary had her son out of wedlock because that wasn't really known at the time. But by the time that Pierson writes his book, the evidence we have suggests that Dr. Aspen all learned.

Pretty quickly that John is not his biological son.

And to his credit, I guess he doesn't.

Tell him or seem to have.

Taken it out on him in any way.

But that's not really a.

Grand gesture because the Aspinol family follows this fine.

Upper class tradition of not.

Raising their kid.

He doesn't disown his son for not.

Being.

Technically his son.

But he also has nothing to do with the raising.

Of either of.

These.

Kids. Because from their.

Earliest days.

John.

And Ship are raised.

By a local Indian nanny.

And they actually.

As kids, considered themselves Indian, as.

Their mother did. Their early contact with the UK was pretty much non-existent.

And the boys- And just to be clear, they were raised in India?

Yeah, in India. Born in Delhi, raised in-.

Like colonial?

Yes.

Their.

First.

Language is Hindi, right?

Oh, okay.

They're speaking that before they really get fluent in English.

So it's not necessarilyYou read biographies of British kids.

Born in India in this time, and that's a pretty common experience. Masters says this about John as a young child, quote, He said whatever came into his head, even as an infant, he was a greable company, lively and affectionate and very attractive with the shock of blonde hair. There grew between Ms. Aspenal and her son, a powerful bond, uncommonly close and confidential, which was never to be impaired. In any fraternal quarrel, no matter how mild and irrespective of the justice of the case, Mary always took John's side.

It's theorized by some of the people writing about them. This is because she hated her husband, so she's going to prefer the kid that she didn't have with him. But yeah, she was.

Something of a wild woman.

At her time.

Very independent. She was also an inveterate gambler.

So when John spent time with his mom, some of the first experiences that.

He would have had is.

His mom playing poker.

Or other games of chance with her friends, wagering.

Money on them.

Childhood was also characterized by regular close contact with exotic animals.

He's got a great uncle over there. If you're part of the ruling colonial class in India, you get to spend a lot of time with elephants. He had an uncle who would.

Hold these garden parties and just bring out his elephants, and.

The kids would feed.

Them sugarcane.

And get lifted into the air by.

Them, by.

Their trunks. One of John's first.

Experiences would be.

Being by what he.

Called the power and gentleness of these elephants, which sounds.

Pretty cool, right? That's a dope.

Childhood.

Experience to have. Yeah.

Especially compared to the average British childhood in that time where it was just like being hit with a cane.

Yeah, being hit with a cane.

And learning to be racist the British way.

Yeah. Don't forget dying in a coal mine.

Oh, yeah, dying at 23, which was considered old.

Yeah. So another with his mom, his.

Mom has some.

Boyfriends during this period of time. I don't know like John knows that they're her boyfriends, they're just friends of hers. But one of these guys who he comes to idolize has two pet tigers.

Which is why John idolizes this.

Guy because he's got pet tigers. So he gets to play with these guys, tigers. Now, this.

Idyllic childhood doesn't last.

Long because, as I noted, parents don't raise their kids. And when.

John was six and Chip was, I think, a year or so older.

The Aspidals decide it's time.

For their kids to get out of India and go off to a boarding school.

This.

Was the fashion at the time. It was also a.

Social necessity.

Again, they're.

Not aristocrats, but they're wealthy and they want to be.

In the aristocracy. If you're going to do that, if you want to fit in with.

Those people, you have.

To go to the same schools.

They do, which are.

Public schools.

But ideally, your child is put aside so that you can focus on being rich.

Yeah. You also don't want to deal with them.

You want to have a child, but you don't want to have a child at that time in history.

Yeah. You want to know them when they're a cute baby and then when they're 18.

And have graduated.

Just in time for you to hate them.

Yeah, for you to really grow to resent them. We are talking about.

Very.

Fancy boarding schools here. We're talking about Eaton, which is where basically the ruling class.

Has sent their boys for forever, right?

Yes. John's going to go to a school called Rugby, which is named that because that's.

Where.

Rugby comes from. It was where.

Rugby.

Got started off, I guess, which I hadn't realized came from.

An institution initially.

But yeah, there you go.

That doesn't surprise me.

Yeah.

Terrible country. I like.

Rugby.

Though. I don't know. I wouldn't play it, but I feel like it's more honest than football. Let's get those pads on out of there.

Which football are.

You talking about? American football. Yeah, I was going to say. Yeah.

I was a large boy in a British private school known for sports and drama. Let me tell you, that's the worst place in the world to be overweight. I was pretty high. I was about 350 pounds. Had I grown up in America, I always think I would have made an offensive lineman, a deeply offensive person and very hard to move would have been great. But now I was in England where I was just called various insults around my size and the speed I moved at. It wasn't enjoyable at all. Nevertheless, I've learned absolutely nothing from that, so just other than the deep self-loathing. But that's what being British is.

That's the core of it.

Yes, the British identity is hating oneself.

Yeah, I guess.

The.

American identity is loving oneself and then hating.

Everybody who's.

Similar to you.

Yes, exactly. Or having no loyalty to anyone, including yourself somehow.

Yeah, deeply betraying.

Your.

Past self in the hope that it will benefit your future self, something like that. Exactly. Yes. Yeah, there we go. Yeah, he goes to this fancy boarding school, and this.

Is the tradition.

For the ruling class. Part of why you go to a school like Aden is so that you can learn how to talk. There's accents.

That are associated with the very oldest of these schools.

And how to fit in with.

The people who are ruling the empire.

Part of.

The way.

In which.

Kids, these children who go to these schools are molded into that tradition.

Is by.

Basically a system of hazing.

That's a huge.

Part on how you make.

These kids. And this brings us to a difficult topic to discuss that's going... It's going to sound like I'm using a slur here? I'm probably not we'll deal with that because the.

Tradition.

That rules both the school that John Aspenal is going to go to.

And eat in.

All of these schools that produce upper class.

Ruling types.

Is called fagging. Now, I have to.

Again, go into explain where this comes from.

I'm going to quote from.

The online etymology dictionary here. Hey, everyone, Robert here.

I didn't make this clear. The definition I'm quoting from the.

Definition.

Of the slur, because that.

Relates to what we're about.

To talk about.

American English slang, probably from earlier, contemptuous term for women, 1590s, especially an old and unpleasant one, in.

Reference.

To fagot, a bundle of sticks, as something awkward to be carried, compare baggage, worthless women, 1590s. It may also be reinforced by Yiddish fagal, homosexual, literally little bird. It may also have roots in British public school slang, which is the term that we're talking.

About here, a.

Junior who.

Does certain.

Duties for a senior. The term fagging is to refer to this relationship in these public schools.

Where.

Junior students are made to.

Act as.

Servants for.

Senior students.

The actual word.

They use both comes from the fact that.

Because the original word means a bundle.

Of sticks, especially in.

The 1800s.

Part of what these.

Younger kids are doing for.

Older kids is like.

Stoking the fires in their rooms.

And stuff. It also comes from these.

Derogatory terms for women, and it may come.

From this Yiddish term.

For homosexual as well.

There's a.

Couple of reasons for this.

One of them is that.

There's not.

Uncommonly.

Sexual.

Relationships, often with a lot of coercion.

Between.

Seniors and juniors. This is.

A messy tradition. Americans will be familiar with the bones of this if they've read the Harry Potter books.

Because the system of prefects.

And head boys.

And shit.

In the Magic.

School in that book series.

Is a.

Sanitized version of how culture works.

In these boarding schools.

That is.

Rowling adds girls to the mix and removes the hazing and the.

Sex abuse.

But she's writing about the same system.

Which I'd only started to realize a year or so ago when I.

Started reading about.

How some of these schools worked.

It's pretty wild.

I don't think most.

People.

Are aware of how this stuff.

Started out.

Bullying is a big part of school in England. Teachers do not... I finished... It was 2004? Oh, Christ. When I graduated secondary school, bullying has always been a big deal. It's always fucking happened. The teacher is like, Well, it's bad, but what are we meant to do about it? Stop the child? No, absolutely not. Then you're like, Eventually, there was a period of time where I was bullied so consistently, I just stopped showing up to school. They called my parents. My parents just like, Is he still being bullied? Well, no. That actually stopped it for a little bit, but it's just I genuinely think England to its bones is just they think abuse is good. I think England British school systems, we have prefects so that we have miniature fucking police walking around the school. It's just an insane system. Thank God we actually have gun control in England because the anger and resentment in young kids in England is brewing constantly because teachers are fucking useless. If they create little monsters in England, that's why. It's because it's part of British blood. You must be subject to abuse from school. They genuinely think that they believe that to this day.

That is actually literally what I'm about to read from this. This is from a 1961 study because the system arises. Part of the idea is that.

We are molding the minds who are going to run the empire, right? Yes. If you're going to lead, you need to learn how to follow. That's why we set these kids underneath each other. They can learn how to exist.

Within this hierarchy. There is.

This belief that putting them in this system will make them.

More compassionate because they'll have been.

Governed.

Cruelly by kids who are older, which is insane. The idea that, well, if we let kids abuse each other, it'll make them kinder adults. Why would you think that? But that is... I'm going to read this quote. This is from a.

1961 study by Paul Nash in history of education quarterly. And he's writing about.

Again, it's hard to read this sometimes.

Is because the name of this system.

That I've described is called the.

Prefect Fagging System.

There's a.

Little dash between the two of.

Them, which I know, guys, but this is what it's called.

Under the Prefect Fagging System, senior boys are given a major role in governing the school, wielding discipline, and carrying out responsibility. They are called various prefects, monitors, or prey posters. Chosen according to many criteria, including physical and intellectual prowess, the principal consideration in their selection, apart from seniority, has traditionally been character. Usually, the prefects are members of the sixth form, and while in some schools, all members of the sixth are granted.

Privileged status.

The two bodies are not customarily identical. At the other end of the scale, new boys entering the school begin by serving as fags for senior boys. Their duties consist of almost anything the fagmaster cares to impose, from cooking and running errands to blacking shoes and kindling fires.

Since public school kids, these are the future ruling class, this is like.

You're training these kids.

To follow. Part of the goal here, there's this real.

System, especially in the late 1800s and early 1900s.

There's this particular.

Understanding that.

Smaller boys are.

Weaker and less valuable.

They.

Need to get used to the idea that they should be subservient to larger and better-bred boys.

There's.

Some flex you if you're a small.

Boy whose.

Dad is a really highly placed member of.

The aristocracy, you.

Can get some wiggle room there.

But that is.

How it works a lot of.

The time.

Quote, With teacher authority, unable or unwilling to protect the rights of the weaker, life for the small boy in the early 19th century public school was frequently one of servitude and fear. The Westminster Review complained that the experience of starting off as a fag and graduating without any reference to merit to a point of having fags of his own, encouraged the public school boy to see life in terms of tyrants and slaves. Fag masters often treated their fags with great cruelty and imposed unreasonable tasks upon them. When James Gasco was a fag at Eaton, he was sent by his fag master out of bounds on errands. If seen by a master, he was reported to Dr. Keat, the headmaster, and clogged. One sixth form boy at Eaton in Coleridge's time ordered his fag to eat a tallow, sandwich by way of acquiring an extra relish for his own cold mutton at the sixth form supper table.

What that means is that they had mutton sandwiches. Just pure fat, right? Yeah, he just pulled all the fat off of his.

Took the other boy's meat, and gave him.

A sandwich that's just like stringy bits of fat in a... Yeah, this is hazing.

This is abuse, right?

It's disgraceful because there are people to this day who would hear this system and be like, Other than the name, which, of course, we can't say anymore, which we stopped saying that in 2011.

Yeah, right? Yeah.

Being in a British private school, I'm not saying that you had institutional abuse, but also you had a great deal of ignorance from it, her toward it even. There was genuinely, I still believe to this day there is still this instinct within British schooling, private and public, but especially private, that boys must be made to learn about the real world by giving them this very bizarre prison system that they will never participate in again. But the other thing you say about compassion, back when I was bullied in school, that was the thing. It would make you a stronger person. When we tell them you talk to the teacher, which I never wanted to happen, they will feel bad and be more competitive. No, they will be angry they got in trouble and bully you more. The actual way to deal with it is just to kick the little fuckers out of school, by the way. You don't go to school anymore. But this is back in the time when England did not care about this stuff.

This.

Is back when England was like, This is just how we make a little army of fascists.

Yeah. This is both if you are reading through the height of.

The empire and then its dissolution, and you come across.

These stories of.

Some of these really crazy decisions people will.

Make about what to do, how to crack down on things.

Well, it's being made by kids who went to these schools and who were brought up in this system.

This does explain a lot.

Yes.

While thisschool.

This system.

Was very much supported by the men who controlled the.

Government at the time, the system we're talking about, this.

Prefect.

Fagging system, is certainly not.

Nearly to the same extent.

This has largely been.

Dismantled, which doesn't mean there's.

Not.

Still abuse and bullying.

It's just not.

Set up in the exact way that it used.

To be. But while this is supported by the people in.

Power at the time, there are regular controversies by the time that John is going through it.

It's 150 or.

So, something like that, years old by the time.

He is in school.

This starts in the early 1800s.

There are some controversies because obviously not.

Every kid is going to.

Survive a system like this. There's also difficulty because since these prefects are.

Being relied upon to manage large chunks of how these.

Schools work, these kids who are made prefects actually have a lot of power.

And they often clash with the headmaster and with the school administration.

Because you actually can't.

Force them to do some things because you're reliant upon them to run the school.

Because not just that, the other dynamic is that you may want.

To punish some.

Of these kids, but if their.

Dad is the Prime.

Minister.

You're going to have.

Some trouble. Yeah, you can't do anything. Yeah.

Obviously, as I noted, bullying.

And abuse is extreme in the system and.

Often sexual. Now, some of this, to be fair, is just.

Boys who are close in age who.

Are engaging in.

Consensual.

Relationships, but that's not the only thing that happens.

Because these boarding.

Schools are also so.

Locked down socially, boys are trained.

Not to complain, not.

To respond to abuse.

With anything, but going along with it. It presents an.

Opportunity for some of the adults in this system who are pedophiles, and pedarasty is very common in this system.

Suicides are not unknown.

In 1930.

Charles.

Fairhurst, a 14-year-old boy.

Killed himself.

During break because he decided he couldn't, and I.

Think he's a.

Nitorian, he.

Just couldn't return to the school. His dad said that he had done it because of the fagging system.

That 1961 article, I think, gives a pretty good overview, but it also avoids discussing some of the more prudent details, which is like the.

Rampant molestation of kids under this system. Masters and Pearson both.

Avoid this topic while talking about.

Aspinol, but I found a good 2014 article by.

A survivor of abuse in.

These.

Schools, Alex Rentin, who discusses his.

Experience in the 60s and '70s.

One.

Of us new boys, I still don't know who, had complained about the regime in Dormatory Five to his parents. This was the cardinal sin. What happened in school stayed in school.

Billy punished us all.

We didn't tell tales again. Some of the key locations have shrunk absurdly small. The brick chapel where Billy gripped the Bible and haranged us with the backing of his three trusty.

As prefects.

Jesus, the Holy Ghost, and God. Just as tiny now as the assembly room, while daily, 120 boys aged seven to 13 were ranked on wooden benches. Here the diatribes, the mass punishments, and the public humiliations happened.

This is where he would detail who had cried under the cane the previous night. Jones and Smith took it like gentlemen, but Rinton blubbed like a baby. Rinton recalled.

Vividly how he.

Used to look at the picture of the Queen in their playroom and beg in his mind for her to visit and save them all from this horrible system.

As per usual.

The Queen.

Did nothing.

Rinton would go on to experience, as well, sexual abuse at the hands of.

A teacher. Yeah, it's a pretty awful story. It's one of those things you will encounter stories like this from some.

Pretty famous people.

Over in Britain.

Richard Dawkins has talked.

And.

It's often.

Odd, he's talked obliquely about the.

Sexual abuse he encountered.

Calling it mild pedophilia and.

Saying, I am very conscious that you can't condemn people of an earlier era by the.

Standards of ours, which I think you can in.

This case.

I can do it all the time.

Doing it.

Right now. Yeah. The physical abuse is also something.

That some people will talk about. Eddie Izzard specifically has talked about this.

Quite a lot. Quick update. As of June of 2023, Eddie.

Izzard has.

Made it clear that she.

Prefers to go by.

Susie, although she says you.

Can't go.

Wrong by still calling her Eddie.

Or using other pronouns. But I'm still going to.

Re-record this bit.

Izzard has spoken about how she was sent to a boarding school at age seven, shortly after her mother's death, she cried relentlessly for about a year, My housemaster would help me along with beatings when he.

Could fit them in. And because John Aspenol is, I think, one of.

The people.

Who grows up taking a.

Weird degree of pride.

And going.

Through this system.

He doesn't complain about.

This experience.

There's certainly not.

Complaints.

Baked in. His biographers don't talk about this.

As abusive, but they do.

Talk about the.

Abuse.

That Aspenol.

Suffers in this system.

It's just normalized. It's like, Well, this is.

Just part of what you go through here.

This paragraph from.

The master's book is typical. John's first year was spent in Cotton House, where he shared rooms with John Straddling Thomas, later to be a Tory MP, a knight, and a government whip. Within days, he was almost constantly being whacked by head of house, hardy for minor but regular infringement of rules. Far from being abashed, John would show off the strokes he had received, throwing hardy into a furious indignation. Eventually, announcing that he would whack Espinol no longer, Hardy sent him to the butler, Ellsworthy, who devised devilish schemes for punishment, such as moving 100 wakes of Coke, cleaning the floor beneath it, and.

Moving the Coke.

Back again.

Anyway, I guess we'll go to ads right now.

Hi, I'm Daniel Tosh, host of a new podcast called Tosh Show, brought to you by iHeart Podcast. Why am I getting to the podcast game now? Well, it seemed like the best way to let my family know what I'm up to instead of visiting or being part of their incessant group text. I'll be interviewing people that I find interesting, so not celebrities and certainly not comedians. I'll be interviewing my plumber, my stylist, my wife's gynecologist. We'll be covering topics like religion, travel, sports, gambling, but mostly it will be about being a working mother. If you're looking for a podcast that will educate and inspire or one that will really make you think, this isn't the one for you. But it will be entertaining to a very select few because you don't make it to your mid 40s with IBS without having a story or two to tell. Join me as I take my place among podcast royalty like Joel Olstein and Lance Bass. Those are words I hope I'd never have to say. Listen to Tosshowe on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.

The assassination of President John F. Kennedy is the greatest murder mystery in American history.

That's Rob Reiner. Rob called me, Soledad O'Brien, and asked me what I knew about this crime. I know six-Nine. Twenty years later, new leads are still emerging. To me, an award-winning journalist, that's the making of an incredible story. On this podcast, you're going to hear it told by one of America's greatest storytellers. We'll ask.

Who had the motive to assassinate a sitting president.

My dad thought of JFK, screwed us at the Bay of Pigs, and.

Then he screwed us.

After the Cuban missile crisis. We'll reveal why Lee Harvey Oswalt isn't who they said he was.

I was.

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Listen to Who Killed JFK on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

My name is Payne Lindsay, and just like pretty much everyone else on the internet, I make podcasts. Throughout my career, I've had the chance to travel all over the place investigating true crimes, researching the unexplained, I've been able to meet some of the most truly interesting people, and I've decided to sit down with them and pick their brains. We're going to talk about life, death, unsolved crimes. If Bob wrote the cadaver.

Note in his own words, he had.

Murdered.

Susan Fernand.

Why do you think we're so obsessed with dark people like that?

It's maybe part of.

Human nature. The supernatural.

There's something here.

Truly.

Something going on. Our biggest fears: mental health, pop culture.

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Honestly, just whatever the hell is on our minds. Wait a minute.

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We're back. Yeah, and you'll hear a lot of the punishments are like, weirdly collective, like.

All of.

The kids have to paddle you.

Like you run down a gauntlet or down.

A staircase as they hit you and stuff. A lot of.

Thought goes into how to hit.

Kids in these schools. Deep sadism runs through a lot of what? A lot of British history. A lot of the world's evils come from England, and a lot of what England taught was a form of punishment-driven success that you could own. It was very much a freedom through work.

Yeah.

I mean, Eugenics comes from England. The Eugenics Club was formed in England. England has, and to this day, I'd argue, I realized my experience with the school system in England, it still has this... They can't physically abuse you anymore. They certainly can't sexually abuse you, apparently, but they can certainly mentally abuse you. That is very fucking common. What infuriates me about this is hearing this stuff, and this is horrifying and it's terrible, but England has not advanced as far beyond this as they really would love to pretend. I am still scarred from my time in the British private.

School system.

I have friends who are still fucking from it. It wasn't anything physical. It was the aiding and abetting of abuse by teachers. Teachers helped, teachers would join in. It's funny because they'll now claim England is like this progressive nation and to an extent we are. But then you really look long and hard at what we do in our school system. Here, if bullying happens, but parents are litigious, parents will do something. There is genuinely a sense of, Oh, you don't really want that smoke as a school. In England, it's like, Oh, boys will be boys. Do you have any idea how many fucking times I've heard that? Pardon me for my sudden rant.

This subject.

No, no, no, no, no. That's the.

Point of it.

This is stuff I don't think... It's certainly not widely known over here about the way that... I think part of it is because.

When most.

Americans encounter.

Information about these.

Schools, it's through fiction.

I'm not just.

Talking about Rowling here, but her.

Books are based on.

The fact.

That for generations, there.

Have been a lot of.

Fictional.

Stories about.

British boarding schools that have been very popular reading around the world. Like, it's a genre.

Also, if Harry Potter was an accurate telling, Harry would have been a mass murderer. He was a viciously bullied kid at a boarding school, constantly bullied, and the institution did nothing. He'd have fucking killed someone. He had magic.

That might have been. He'd just become a cop. He'd just become a cop. He'd just been manipulated by his professors.

Yeah, his professor physically abused him, and it's like- Like many of them. It's a long list.

He turned out to be this...

He was always this lovely kid. No, he would have been a violent... He would have been made violent by a violent system like a lot of school boys in England. I remember reading it while I was in school and being like, This is fucking stupid. I don't even mean the magic. I mean the fact that he's just like, Oh, I can shoot. My wand can shoot this my.

Boy, guys. We all have guns and we're not using them to murder each other.

Exactly. Not a single, truly violent child in there. Yeah. No, it would have been horrifying. It's so stupid because England could actually deal with this by having laws and regulations that stop this thing. You could have punishments for teachers that aid in the bed in this. Instead, you get the occasional limp piece in the newspaper. It's another school does not stop bullying, and nothing goddamn happens. This sounds awful. They have improved the physical side and the pederasthi side. Kind of.

Yeah.

It's a disgusting country. I'm so glad I left. Now I live in America, a normal country.

Finally. Yeah, good news about that. This is John's experience here, he's one of these kids. He has targeted a lot early on. His attitude.

He's this naturally.

Rebellious person. I will say to his credit, John is one of these kids who, despite what he goes through, doesn't seem to be.

Mentally or physically aggressive to others. One of his.

Classmates later said he.

Was never cruel throughout his time there, and there are very few people about whom one can truthfully.

Say that. Most kids who go through this turn out worse than he did. So I'll give him credit for that. That takes something. Yeah, that's something. Yeah, that's for sure something. Yeah. John Aspenal's mother is, again, usually noted as favoring him.

But if this is true, she still didn't prefer him to.

Not having a kid around because once he and Chip are off in these boarding schools, they don't really.

See their mom or their dad very much.

During summer break, he doesn't live with his parents. He lives with this family of.

Farmers that.

His parents pay to take them in.

Which is very common during that time. They just ship the fucking kid off.

Ship him one way or the other way, right? Yeah.

You don't have a kid, so you.

Raise it. Yeah, anywhere but here. This is good.

For John.

Actually, because.

He loves animals, so he spends a lot.

Of time on this farm, getting to take care of and raise animals.

He idolizes this farmer who.

Helps to raise him because he's.

Really good with.

Animals, and.

This is.

Just John's passion.

From an early age.

He also spends a lot of time.

With his.

Grandparents, who are pretty.

Strict authoritarian.

Yeah. He basically just does not.

See his parents.

He grows up very independent.

And notably unwilling to take any shit from adults.

That's a thing that people will notice.

About John from a pretty young age.

He has his own.

Ideas about the world, and he's not really.

Willing to bend on them. As a.

Teenager, he is.

A member of the Cadet training program.

Or.

Something at.

His.

Boarding school. It's basically an ROTC type thing. Yeah, ROTC, but British. Yeah. Yeah. Although they do... I was in ROTC and we didn't do anything. We marched around and shit, but apparently his ROTC equivalent, they do war games and stuff where they would do fake attacks on.

Houses and buildings.

And stuff. John recognized this as.

Larping and refused to participate. During these.

Actions, he.

Would go to sleep nearby.

He'd just be napping with his other boys because he was like, This is pointless. I'm not going to do it, which you have to respect. Yeah.

But also, was that not a time when that might actually have happened? Conscription was a real threat at those times. It's just very weird that the one time, he wasn't actually correct in that.

No, you're right. Because a lot of his... Well, they're all a little old because he's.

Going to join the military in '45 is when he's going.

To start his service. Oh, okay. Yes. But they could have.

They're very- England-loved wars. We were going to have a few. We're always having one. Yeah.

He very well could.

Have, but he doesn't.

He was indifferent in athletics. He was.

Not particularly interested in dating.

From what I can see, he probably would have been.

Considered a nerd for.

His day. Now, there's not a lot of great outlets for that as there are today. The nerd he is is he spends.

All of his time reading colonial adventure stories.

By guys like H.

Ryder.

John's.

Favorite book by H. Ryderd was called Nada the Lilly.

It's this book.

About the Zulu.

King, Shaka, who was this very.

Good military commander who leads.

This uprising.

War.

Against the British Empire in Africa, is.

Winning.

For a while before tragically loses. It's one of these.

Things that happens a lot in the history.

Of the Empire. They'll have this local leader who fights against them.

Comes close to winning and then gets massacred along.

With all of his people.

And then it's turned to a hero, right?

Afterwards, people.

Within the Empire will.

Be like.

Oh, what a noble man that we killed.

That's a real shame that we had to wipe that dude out.

If I would have been born somewhere else.

Yeah. Quote, Aspenal, and.

This is from.

A Masters' book.

Aspenal continued this tradition and throughout his school days enthralled other boys so much with Zulu lore and accounts of battles and personalities that even those who can remember nothing else about him recalled the Zulu obsession.

He even went so.

Far as to claim his mother was a Zulu princess, and some of the younger boys, perhaps unaware that his blonde hair, blue eyes, and fair skin.

Were inconvenient evidence, believed him. So there we go. That's good. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, it's kid stuff, too, I guess, lying about who your family is so that you sound cooler.

It's this weird mix.

Of like- But back then, you could probably make up anything.

Yeah, it's a lot easier.

It wasn't really an internet for someone to check. You'd just have to be a complete fantasist.

You'd have.

To go to.

The library to prove that this kid's like, and who's got the.

Time for that? I will not be doing that.

No.

I have hazing to see too.

Yeah, I've got kids to hit.

As they grew nearer to adulthood, John started to show an aptitude for making money as well. He and his brother started dealing guns.

While they are like teenagers. Jesus Christ. It's easier back then, right? I don't think there's laws, really, about it. They're just.

Buying old... These are hunting weapons. They're buying old hunting weapons and fixing them up and selling them.

For a profit. They're also doing hunting and stuff and.

Basically.

Selling the game they get to rich people who.

Don't want.

To be arced to do.

It themselves.

But want to have a trophy.

In the middle.

Of doing all this.

The two boys basically invent the entire modern industry of internet scams and analog form.

This is fascinating. I think you're going to enjoy this.

Chips was the more resourceful entrepreneur of the two at this stage. It was he who made the money, John who did his bidding. John was too dreamy and idealistic, too much the romantic to grasp the practical steps towards profits. One of Chips' ruses was to advertise in the Times inviting interested parties to send in one pound in return for which they would receive enlightenment on the mysteries of how to make soap. Hundreds of letters arrived at prep school. They were answered with.

A page copied from the Encyclopedia Britannica. That's like he's running a ChatGPT scam, right? They're just copying directly from the Encyclopedia now.

I approve all British scams of that era because it was such a rotten country, such an inherently corrupt institution. Britain was such a natural scammer, the things they did, the things the British Empire did in every other country were so disgusting that I... Of course, we're going to have this happen. Of course, we invented that. Right.

Yeah, it is a.

Weirdly modern.

Scam, though. They could have gotten so much further with it if they'd had the internet.

Chatgpt.

Would have really been a wonder.

To these kids.

Early Krasenstein.

Yeah, early Krasenstein? So after.

Graduating- Proteo Krasenstein.

Yeah, Krasenstein? Yeah, Krasenstein? Yeah, that's probably right. Sure.

So after graduation- It's a.

Steen Krasens, that's what it is. -steen Krasens. He joins.

The Royal Marines.

He's got to do his time in service, which I think is about three years.

He gets really lucky.

He comes in right at the end.

Of World War II, and he doesn't have to do any.

Of the.

War part, which is great.

You would prefer to.

Avoid that if at all possible. Not a great war to have to fight in.

He demobilizes.

In '48 and.

Then applies to Jesus College, Oxford, and was accepted.

Again, for Americans, Oxford, I think, is like actually.

Five universities. When people refer to.

Oxford, there's a couple of different schools there.

They're all nice, right? They're all prestigious.

Yes, I think there isn't like a shit.

Oxford college. No. But Jesus is the least of the prestigious of them, at.

Least at this time.

I don't know where it stands today.

Maybe at that time, but still everywhere's good now.

Yeah, these.

Are all very.

Good, right? He goes there, but he doesn't.

Fall in.

Love with it.

He is disillusioned very.

Early on, part of it because he doesn't know what he wants.

To do at.

This point. He thought.

He.

Wanted to be a writer, and then he thought he wanted to be a journalist, but he doesn't actually like to write. And he's like, Well, this is a.

Hard job and it doesn't make much money.

So he.

Would be a perfect modern journalist then.

Yeah, he'd be a perfect modern journalist. So he drops that ambition pretty quick.

And he just decides to.

Dress.

Like Oscar Wilde for a while and try to build a.

Reputation as a poet. Yeah, he's got this purple, velvet suit he wears everywhere.

I'm just a dandy now. Dandy pill.

He gets away with that for a while, but he doesn't actually.

Like writing poems or making art in.

Any way. You can only keep up that lie so long before you get.

Bored of it.

While.

This is.

Going on, well.

He's finding.

Himself in Oxford. His mother.

Was off partying, and eventually she hooks up with another.

Army officer. As luck would have it, this guy, Colonel Osborne.

They marry, she becomes Lady or.

She becomes Mrs. Osborne, and.

Then he inherits a baronetzy.

Which is like.

I believe.

That's on.

The lower end of.

The aristocracy, like a baron. Yeah, you get a few, but-.

Maybe the middle class of.

The aristocracy, I don't know.

Any aristocracy we have to explain why it's good is not great.

No.

But this works out great for John because he inherits a baronatcy.

His mom is now the Lady.

Osborn, and this lifts them.

All up. So he gets to be on more of an even footing with.

The kids at Oxford who are.

Members of the nobility.

This is.

Why he's, as an adult, is going to be Lord Espinol, because this baronatcy goes to him eventually.

That makes.

Socialization.

At Oxford a lot easier.

He falls in with a crowd of wealthy young men who are real aristocrats with family fortunes that gave them basically endless.

Trust funds.

His friends at school are all these rich boys. None of them.

Have ever.

Had to do anything on their own. Their whole youth, as.

We've talked.

About, was this.

Mix of.

Psycho, private.

School bullying, and these outside of that, when they're with their families, these.

Interminable rituals that you have to carry out as members of the aristocracy.

These are.

Rich kids.

They are kids who have.

Suffered some psychic damage as a result.

Of their education.

And they are permanently bored, right? Yes. And so the only thing in their life that lends them excitement.

Is.

Gambling. That is the joy that these kids have, is to gamble.

Yeah.

Beautiful.

Yeah.

Great.

Situation. Lovely. Yeah.

John learns to.

Play poker with them, and he does not have... He's one of these kids.

Not the only one. This is a.

Period where the upper crust.

Is opening up a little bit and there's some room for these kids who are born to just rich families to move in.

And out of it. John is one of these kids who is.

Welcome in.

These circles, even though he doesn't.

Really have a family fortune. But the fact that he's not rich...

I mean, he's.

Rich compared to a normal person, right? But he's not rich by the standards of these guys. He's certainly not rich enough to.

Gamble like they do. So we actually.

Have to- This was really before. This is the beginning of new money.

Yeah, exactly.

He is one of the.

First new money people to.

Really ascend.

But he doesn't have that.

Money at this point, which means he has to actually be good at gambling. He can't just.

Waste money every single week. You can't lose. Yeah, exactly. This is from.

Pearson's book, The.

Gamblers, quote.

He said later, From the first time I settled down to play, I felt at home as I never had before. The excitement invigorated him. The risk challenged him, and he relished the company of gamblers, which came as a relief from those earnest Welshmen back.

In college.

Later, he used to claim that gamblers formed a superior race to passive, tedious humanity, and he rather shocked the journalist Comptonon Miller by telling him he regarded people who don't gamble as emotional cripples.

To be able to count.

Himself among the emotionally elect must have been more satisfying than dressing up as Oscar Wilde or studying Beowulf or Chaucer. And nobody could doubt his dedication to his chosen field of studies. Soon, most of his waking hours were spent gambling in one way or another. The stakes rose. Some of his early partners, like John Lawrence, the future.

Lord, Oaxie.

Became worried and dropped out.

It was.

Getting too hot for me to handle, and it was obvious that John was heading for the dangerous world of big time gambling.

I just think it's marvelous you found another British eugenics.

Yeah, gambling, superiority.

They found another way to be xenophobic.

Yeah.

Innovators.

It is really innovative.

I mentioned that Adam Curtis documentary, The Mayfair set.

Which is about Aspenol and his friends.

Curtis will draw a direct line with that between a lot.

Of these guys who are.

Sponsoring coupes, who are doing.

Shit, who are.

Behind a lot of the military actions in the Suez crisis.

These guys who build private armies.

And.

Use them.

To change the nature of power and that. They're all gamblers. They all gamble.

With Aspenol.

He's like, Gambling is crucial to understanding.

Why the people who are running a.

Lot of foreign policy for the empire in.

The latter.

Half.

Of the 20th.

Century do the shit that they do.

Because.

They're gamblers.

They're willing to take these big.

Wild risks of chance.

Yeah, they don't fear losing, or at least the idea of risk for them is a little more malleable?

Yeah.

They fear losing less than they fear not rolling the dice.

I think, is probably an accurate way.

To see it.

So Aspinol is.

A pretty good gambler, naturally, right?

And.

When he.

Does lose, because these games.

Are all between very.

Rich people, there's.

Iou systems, right? So you can float for a while if you have a couple of bad nights.

By.

Rolling those IOUs forward until you win some.

So he's able.

To hang on.

There's some tight moments there, but he's able to hang on. But he realizes like, I don't want to just.

Be.

Gambling like this and potentially lose eventually. The real way to get ahead and to build.

A place for myself in the society is to start hosting games, right? Yeah. So he starts.

To draw a network.

Of close friends to him who.

He uses as almost like...

This is almost like a corporate enterprise, except for it's just purely bonds of friendship here.

Friendship and.

Mutual need. The first guy that he attracts to him is this fellow, Lord Maxwell Scott. I say Lord, he is.

The Lord Maxwell Scott. He's also 18.

At this point. These are all still kids. And Maxwell Scott is so addicted to gambling.

He's one of these guys who... He's got perfect.

Noble credentials. So he's really good at making friends. He can make all of these connections to other members of the aristocracy.

He's.

Inherently welcome at every party, right? There's no event that's closed to this guy because.

Of how.

Highly placed he is within the system, but he is a god-awful gambler who is terribly.

Addicted to it. Not only does he play games of chance.

He's said.

To gamble, people will see a.

Crow flying in the air and he'll bet on them.

As to whether or not it's going to land.

And which tree it's going to land on. He'll put money on this shit.

Or.

Which drop of rain is going to make it to the bottom of a window first.

He's that kind. There's nothing.

Going on in this man's soul.

Other.

Than the momentary thrill of.

Placing a wager.

It's like a cartoon character.

Yeah, it is really.

I love that. I love that there are guys like this that existed in history, just completely insane dipshits. Guys who are living versions of the success memes that you find on Instagram, posted exclusively from India and the Philippines.

Yeah. By the way, India gets a huge version of this boarding school system with carbon.

Copied over to it. That's a whole other story. That's a.

Whole other story. More British poison. Disgusting.

Yeah. The whole country.

Between the.

Two of.

Them- In England, I mean.

Oh, yeah. Hey, we all come from.

Horrible.

Countries here. This is a safe place to work through it. I come from Oklahoma, boy. I could tell you some stories.

Speaking of Oklahoma.

This show is sponsored.

By the.

State of Oklahoma. That makes literally no sense. Oklahoma, we banned something else completely anadine today. I don't know. I'm angry about the laws in Oklahoma. That was one of your worst, I got to say. That was not a good one. Not a good one. You've done way better. Yeah, but you know what's illegal in Oklahoma.

Right now?

Not much. Abortion? Yeah. Oh, no, a lot of stuff is illegal. It's just not the stuff.

That.

Should be illegal.

Books.

Yeah, books. Yes, we have definitely been banning some books back in my old home state.

Come to Oklahoma. You can also leave.

Yeah, come to Oklahoma. A great place to exit. Anyway, here's some other ads.

Hi, I'm Daniel Tosh, host of a new podcast called Tosh Show, brought to you by iHeart Podcast. Why am I getting into the podcast game now? Well, seemed like the best way to let my family know what I'm up to instead of visiting or being part of their incessant group text. I'll be interviewing people that I find interesting, so not celebrities and certainly not comedians. I'll be interviewing my plumber, my stylist, my wife's gynecologist. We'll be covering topics like religion, travel, sports, gambling, traveling, but mostly it will be about being a working mother. If you're looking for a podcast that will educate and inspire or one that will really make you think, this isn't the one for you. But it will be entertaining to a very select few because you don't make it to your mid 40s with IBS without having a story or two to tell. Join me as I take my place among podcast royalty like Joel Olstein and Lance Bass. Those are words I hope I'd never have to say. Listen to Tosshowe on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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My name is Pain Lindsay, and just like pretty much everyone else on the internet, I make podcasts. Throughout my career, I've had the chance to travel all over the place investigating true crimes, researching the unexplained, I've been able to meet some of the most truly interesting people, and I've decided to sit down with them and pick their brains. We're going to talk about life, death, unsolved crimes. If Bob wrote the cadaver.

Note in his own words, he had.

Murdered Susan Sperman.

Why do you.

Think we're so obsessed with dark people like that?

It's maybe part of human nature.

The supernatural.

There's something here.

Truly.

Something going on. Our biggest fears, mental health, pop culture.

Just adrenaline. Being on a film set is incredible.

Honestly, just whatever the hell is on our minds. Wait a minute. You should be very happy.

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The second friend that he draws, that Aspenol draws to him is this guy, Dominique Elwis. Elwis is a mediocre gambler.

But he's incredibly handsome and charming with the ladies. Between Max, Will.

Scott, and Elwis, Aspenol.

Can get all of the really rich.

Kids to.

His parties, and he can get women to his parties, which is.

The two.

Ingredients in this social set for being able to have a good gambling party.

I should also note, as a fun aside, this is just in Pearson's book, which.

Is Pearson, as a journalist, is.

Very much close to this community.

While he's critical.

About them, you.

Get these lines from him where.

It's like.

Oh, you just come from a different world.

As a fun aside, Pearson's like.

Elwis's friends.

Had a.

Term for him, NSIT, which means not.

Safe in taxis. This is portrayed as a funny anecdote. What that means is that you.

Can't put Elwis in a taxi with a young woman or he will just assault her, right?

That's what that term means. That's England. Yeah. That's not just England. I'll give you that. But yeah, that is particularly.

This.

Guy.

That's what it means to be.

A ladies man at this period of time. Yeah.

So that's cool. John seems to have decided that the life of a.

Gentleman gambler was the life.

That he wanted to live.

So.

He drops.

Out of Oxford.

Actually, on the day of his exams, he's so close to.

Graduating that.

It's exam day. And instead of.

Going to take them.

He fakes an illness so he can gamble on horse raises.

Which I.

Do respect.

To be honest.

That's- Average.

British man. That's commitment. Yeah. So the boys.

Start- I can't bet on the dogs.

You'll learn more at the horse track than you.

Will at- I can't bet on the grand aunts. My wife doesn't understand.

So the boys start.

Renting rooms at the Ritz Hotel and hosting poker parties. These are very.

Popular.

Parties, but they're.

Also expensive because like, Aspinol, he gets a little bit of a cut from each pot.

But he has to pay for food and he has to.

Pay for alcohol.

These are very rich people, so that's not cheap food and alcohol, right? You're not throwing together.

Some ham, sandwiches, and beer.

Especially if you're appealing to the Upper crust, you actually had to make an effort.

Yeah.

They have trouble breaking even. Aspenol is often reliant upon his rich friends in order to keep floating the games to the next week.

He's like.

This is.

Not going to work.

I'mnot going to get rich doing this shit. Right.

And so while he's trying to puzzle this out.

He comes upon a new game of chance that is going to open the world up to him. And this game is called Chemin Des Faire.

Have.

You heard of.

Schmanda Fair?

No.

I.

Learned about it from a Warren Zeevon song.

But it's remarkable.

It's the heroine of games of Chance.

That's how it's described by.

Some people who were both heroine addicts and.

Gambling addicts. I would explain this because I don't think it's widely known anymore. But yeah, the way he.

Finds out about Chemin.

Des Faire is his friend Elwis.

Wangles him an invitation to this regular game.

Held by the vicar, who's this guy.

Who pretends.

To be a vicar but.

Is really just a degenerate gambler dressing.

Like a.

Religious figure in.

Order to.

Make people trust him.

So he can take their money.

And Aspenal has known this guy for a while, but he comes to his house to this Schemendipheir.

Game, and he's like.

Your house is much nicer than it should be. Where are you getting all this money?

And the vicar is like, Well, there's.

This new game that's blowing up.

And if.

You're the dude.

Running the.

House that night, you make crazy money off it, and it's called Chemin Des Faire.

So as I noted earlier, the.

Guys who are gambling in this are these rich kids, most of whom inherited huge fortunes from their parents who died during the war years. And in this.

Period of time, this is the early '50s.

The English aristocracy, there are historic levels of cash on hand, what's called ready cash. So you've got all these young people who have not really been seasoned by the world, who are very naive and.

Who have what.

Seemed to them to be.

Endless piles of liquid assets.

They have this equally.

Historic desire to throw this money away to feel alive for a second.

And so.

The most popular games among the aristocracy are.

Not things like poker.

Where there's skill involved, where you're actually competing. You can be good at poker and it matters. Yeah, exactly.

You're not losing.

Because you were bad. You're losing because the roll or the dice or whatever.

And because.

That's more thrilling, right? You want to hear your chance.

Yeah. So the games that are popular among these.

Self-destructive, rich.

Kids are the ones that have the.

Purest amount of.

Chance in them.

And.

Schemaine-de-faire, it's.

Beloved and it's addictive because it's the most random game around and it's very fast.

Now, I'm not going to.

Go through the rules of Schemaine-de-Faire here.

Because they're silly and also I'm not a game-of-chance guy. But the point about how it works is that.

It's very fast and it's.

Very random.

Within these games, the standard bet is 1,000 pounds.

Which.

Is about $25,000 in.

Modern money.

And these games are played every 30 seconds.

So.

These.

People are.

Putting down 25 grand in.

Modern money.

Every 30.

Seconds or so. They love this.

Because it is the fastest way to light money on fire.

That's.

Why Chemin Des Fables is.

Beloved, right? It's just.

Another form of doing drugs.

It is. And in fact, one of.

The people that.

Pearson Cites is a.

Member of the aristocracy who was a heroin.

Addict who describes it as the heroine of gambling. Another guy says.

Famously, You don't give up on.

Shemy, which is the nickname for this.

Game, Shemi gives up on you.

You.

Never quit this game. You just run.

Out of.

Money because it's so addictive.

So Aspenol, the best thing about this from his perspective is that.

If you are the house.

The house gets.

Paid 20 %.

Of the pot.

In each game, right?

That was just the.

Cultural.

Understanding about how this was going to work. And the idea is.

This compensates the host for running the game.

But because every.

Member.

Every one who's putting into a pot is putting the.

Equivalent of 25 grand in, you make a fucking fortune running Chimmy games.

Wait, does the person running the game, is they like a VIG?

Yeah, that's the VIG, right? That's like you get 20% of.

The pot automatically goes to.

The house.

Oh, boy. I got to run one of these.

Yeah, right? It's actually explicitly illegal in UK.

Law to do this now.

I also live in Las Vegas where it's extremely illegal to run any gambling yourself.

Yeah, that's a shame.

Thank God we can go to Caesar's Palace. Anyway, I don't.

Know, at least it's.

Democratized, right? They're robbing everybody here. I don't know. I guess it's better the way that he's doing it.

Because the only people in these games are rich.

I will say Aspinol's version of running a casino is much more ethical than any other version. It's the only time where that's the case, where excluding people is fine because the people.

You're excluding are poor and can't afford to gamble.

This. So I'll give them that. So Aspenol, they start making.

Money with these games. He brings in his mom to curate the meals.

Because she knows some great cooks. Maxwell Scott, being this.

Impeccably mannered.

Guy, picks the wine. John, in order.

To dress this.

Up, they're.

Running it out of different houses.

Each week, but he has to.

Make it look nice, so he needs some.

Fine art, these.

Pieces, originals.

By guys.

Like Panini and Canaleto.

He is able to get.

Fine art by going to different art.

Dealers and saying, I'm totally going to buy this piece.

But I need to take it.

Home and try it out for a.

Couple of days.

Because he's a Lord and.

In.

Good with the aristocracy, all of these places are like, Well, of course.

You need to try a piece of artwork at home. That's how that works.

Yeah, take it for a spin.

Jesus Christ.

So his.

First few games are hits.

And he just starts making.

Piles of money.

Now, none.

Of this.

Is strict.

This is a legal gray.

Area at the time, right?

England's gambling laws make it a crime to run a casino or gambling house. You can't do that.

Legally, but private homes are allowed to.

Host gambling games.

I think it's if you do it more than.

Two or three nights in a row, it.

Becomes illegal.

So basically every week they switch locations. And that way they're not running a gambling hall. These are independent games. Well, this is this man's game this.

Week, but.

They're all run by Aspenol.

And he's using.

His buddy.

Maxwell Scott, who is this guy that anybody who's.

Rich and fancy knows Maxwell Scott.

So we can just go to all these other people with mansions and be like, Hey, you want to host a game this week? I think they're usually kicking them a little bit of the vig too.

But the money is crazy.

Aspenol is generally making something.

Like £30,000 a night off of these games.

Which is at this period of time, an.

Insane amount of money.

Now, his.

Expenses are.

High too, but he's still.

Making a lot of money. In a very short.

Time, he.

Is rich. The best thing about being rich is you can get totally devoted to insane.

Hobbies that poor people.

Cannot afford. In John's case.

Being this.

Lifelong.

Animal lover.

The.

Insane hobby he chooses to get into.

Is adopting exotic animals.

Perfect. Wonderful. Yeah, perfect. Oh, it's going to be good.

Get so British.

Yeah. And that is legal at this point. It's not until '76 that the UK makes it illegal to just buy.

Lions or whatever.

In part because of this guy. But I'm going to read.

Another quote from the gamblers here. Aspinal never said what took him to Mr. Palmer's pet shop in North London in early 1957, still less what made him buy a small, capuchon monkey. If you live in an eaten place and want an unusual pet to amuse your guests, you could do worse than a capuchon monkey. They're small and affectionate and have a zany sense of humor all their own. Livelier than a.

Pekanese and more affectionate than a Siamese.

They take their name from the monklike hood around their head. This particular monkey was a great success with gambling friends who visited the house. One of them christened him dead loss.

Thereafter.

He was.

Always known as Teddy.

Teddy's popularity turned Aspinol's thoughts to other animals. Like many people with childhood memories of teddy bears, he seems to have regarded bears as friendly creatures. From Mr. Palmer, bought a pair of young Himalayan bears.

He called them Esau and Iatia, took.

Them home to eat in place and for a while did his best to make them socialize among his guests.

Legend has it that a short sighted peer.

Once mistook Esau for.

Another member of the House of Lords. But Himalayan bears are.

Not as sociable as they appear, and.

Before long, Aspinoled electively confined them to a cage that.

He constructed in the garden. This did nothing to deter him from trying to make friends with other wild animals. Rather, the reverse and his problems with Esau and Aesha seemed to have convinced him that if only he had bought the two bears young enough and brought them up to have no fear of him, this would have.

Been quite possible.

Yeah, that's the problem, mate.

That's the problem. You didn't get those bears.

Early enough. Didn't get the bear early enough, mate. He tried to bring it back, got the.

Pet shop. No, mate, I told you you need to get early. Yeah. That is the only thing he learns out of any time, the reason why he has.

To cage them is that they attack people.

The.

Only lesson he learns from this.

Is like, These bears would be my friend if I'd gotten them younger.

Right, of course. That's the lesson I've learned.

From this. Yeah. And he's- From this. -person will note that if you are.

Running a gambling operation like.

This, if you're the.

Master of the casino, it's like.

Being.

A cult.

Leader, right? In part because people are really reliant upon you, especially the ones who are gambling too much. And that deranges John.

He's already grown.

Up in this very rarified, strange world of high society.

He's become more deranged by being this gambling maven.

And something strange.

Starts to happen to him as he.

Starts taking on these exotic pets. He becomes so fascinated by them that he starts to grow irritated and enraged by the pedestrian pets that middle class people have.

It makes him.

Angry to see someone with a dog or a cat. And he starts to hate people.

Who have less and extends this to their pets. He hates animals.

That aren't exotic, right? He thinks it's disgusting.

Which is fascinating. Mentally, what's going on there is fascinating.

I don't know how else to describe it. I love that. This is such a British story. We hate in a completely different way to the average person. Our brains are capable of loathing someone for the pettiest reasons.

It.

Is amazing.

You just have a cat? Yeah. Fuck you. You poor piece of shit. I can't go to three.

Rooms in my house due to the Pumas, plural.

Yeah, I.

Get bitten by a bear every.

Single day, you coward. There are 18 tamarind monkeys in my garden. I can account for 11, but I see evidence of another seven. One is pregnant. I don't know how. They're all male. Because he's so angry.

At the idea.

Of normal pets, in order to both Trump.

All of the.

Cat and dog owners in the world, he.

Buys.

A tiger cub.

Named Tara, and he.

Raises her like a kitten. She sleeps.

With him in his bed.

He'll take her on walks at.

Night, and.

One evening.

A.

Family's dog.

Attacks Tara. Or perhaps he says that the dog attacked Tara. We don't know that. We have no idea who attacked him. I don't trust him. Yeah. Perhaps Tara attacked him. But whatever the case.

Is.

His cat.

Kills this dog with a single bite. Obviously, it's a tiger.

Of course, this is how it goes.

Sure, mate.

Absolutely. I think this dog has gotten out of.

Someone's yard, right? Right.

So Aspenol finds himself in the dead of.

Night with his tiger.

And this mauled corpse of a family's dog, and he.

Just hurls it down the basement stairs of a stranger's house.

That's how I'm going to deal with.

This problem.

That's where this shit goes.

Where else am I going to.

Fucking put it? Yeah, quite an amazing guy.

Trust me, I know how.

Animals work. This is what you do. This is where you put them. So in short.

Order, it becomes obvious to him that.

I want more wild animals than I can. He's living in London, right? He already has. He has a tiger and two bears and several monkeys. That's too many animals for a.

House in the middle of London. That's fine.

It's getting a bit crowded.

So he buys this decrepid country mansion on a bunch of acreage called Howlets, and he pays a lot of money.

He has it rebuilt.

And refurbished, and he starts setting.

Up habitats for his bears and.

For Tara, and soon more animals will.

Join them. We're going to tell that story and.

What happens next in part two.

But before we move.

On, I want to tell another story that sets up and explains a bit what's happening with his gambling hauls in this period of time. To do.

That, we got to pull back a century or so to.

The early 1800s.

And discuss John Aspenal's.

Predecessor.

The gambling maven who comes.

A generation before him and sets up the board for him. So in the early 1800s.

After.

1812, you've got this situation that's a lot like the UK after 1945, and that you've had.

This long series of wars.

They've devastated the whole country, but the aristocracy, a lot of the sons.

Of the aristocracy have died in this war.

And suddenly there's this period of peace. And so you have.

This generation of.

Aristocrats come of age.

A lot.

Of them have lost their parents in these.

Conflicts, which means they.

Have all of this money and there's no war to fight.

So.

They're all bored as fucking hell.

And that creates this situation about a.

Century before Aspinol's rise where gambling is going to flourish. Because there's all these rich kids with ready money looking for an.

Adrenaline fix. John is going to be the.

Guy to take advantage of this in the.

Late '40s.

And '50s. A century earlier.

His predecessor is.

This dude named William Crockford.

They have a couple.

Of things in common.

One is that John is the son.

Of a.

Doctor and the.

Daughter of a colonial officer. They're comfortable, they have money.

But they're not the ruling class.

Crockford is like a fishmonger by trade.

He's a business owner. He comes from... He inherits this business, I.

Think, from his dad, which means he's solidly middle class, maybe upper middle class. These are both guys who come from.

This position of.

Like they.

Have a.

Degree of economic privilege, but they're not inherently naturally going to ascend to the ruling class. They have to work for that.

They both pick gambling as their way.

To get there. Like John, Crockford discovers as a teenager that he can.

Calculate odds in his.

Head, making him.

A good gambler. He starts.

Out just gambling. But by the 1800s, he's made enough money that.

He buys this facility in an.

Upscale.

Neighborhood, and he starts catering.

Just to the rich. He's the first guy to do this.

Prior to Crockford.

Most gambling halls had been disreputable places where violence was common. Crockford locks, doesn't allow the poor, and doesn't even allow people.

Who aren't aristocrats with money.

In other than himself generally, because he wants to.

Create a safe place where the very rich can throw away their fortunes and splendor.

And.

There's differences between.

The periods. The gamblers of Crockford's Day.

Like stuff like poker where there's.

An element of skill involved, right?

And he recognizes this is because, not because there's a big difference.

In odds, but they want this illusion of control, which I guess shows a.

Difference between these.

Two generations of.

The ruling class that I think is interesting. Crockford culminates in 1828, starting this place called Crockford's, which is frequented Lord Wilmington, the.

Guy who.

Defeats Napoleon is.

A regular there. Lord Byron is a regular there. That's the people who are -.

Classic British freaks.

Yeah, very much so.

It's one.

Of those things. A big part of why Crockford.

He makes.

A decision early on, I don't want.

To host small.

Businessmen or entrepreneurs.

Common people who.

Have fortunes because they're smart. I just want to host idiots who inherited.

All.

Of.

Their money because.

They will gamble.

It all the way. We don't know how.

Much money Crockford.

Ultimately fleeced out of the.

Rulers of the British Empire, but it's generally.

Agreed upon that he helped clear out a generation.

Of wealth, bankrupted a number of families, and.

Altered the map of British power.

The aristocrats who become wealthy and.

Powerful after this point are the people who.

Weren't.

Gambling it all.

The way at Crockford's, right? And that's going to be the case with Aspenol, right? He's clearing the way for.

A new generation of people.

And the folks that.

Get rich and take.

The reins of power.

Often don't come.

From the same.

Rarified, noble-house.

Backgrounds right before. This is.

New money, right?

That's what Aspenol is.

Going to clear.

I.

Think it's just interesting to talk about Crockford because this is.

Apparently a pattern.

Every 150 years or so.

You'll have this gambling freeze that.

Kills a chunk of the old aristocracy's wealth and facilitates the transfer of that wealth to new men, these business moguls and stuff. In The gamblers, Pearsonon writes, quote, More and more people.

Were becoming vastly richer in.

That prosperous decade. As city institutions like the Stock Exchange and Lloyds opened their boardrooms previously reserved for members of the upper classes to the sharper offspring of the growing meritocracy. Takeover bids and property speculation offered others golden opportunities for acquiring a moderate amounts of wealth. A new class of moneymen was now appearing, and the richer they became, the more of them attempted to assume the habits and pretensions of the vanishing ancient aristocracy. In the early 40s, George Orwell wrote that, No country under the sun is more obsessed by class than England. It still was. Class obsession.

Had been endemic.

Among the.

English for so long that it wouldn't go away.

In the 60s, the very rich appeared, if anything, to.

Be.

More class-obsessed than ever, as.

They infiltrated one by one, the former strongholds of.

The old nobility. That's who John is going to be, right?

He is a new money guy who is not just infiltrating, but going to shape the next generation of power brokers, in part by who his casino robs and who.

It transfers money to. It almost feels like it's just a chain of exploitation.

The British aristocracy exploited.

England, exploited overseas, and now someone found a.

Way to exploit them. Yeah. That is the...

That's exactly what's happening.

Yeah. It's England. It's a nice circle. That's what we're going to end for today.

In part one.

In.

Part two, we're going to have some more gambling and a whole lot more zoo stories.

And then.

End on a murder.

That's all exciting. That's good. Yeah. We have a little cliffhanger there, Robert. Little cliffhanger there. Ed, you.

Got any plugables to plug here?

Just read my.

Newsletter at where'syoured. App, and if you need publicrelations services, ezpr. Com, please. Excellent. Ezpr. Com, and where'syoured at? Ed is one of my favorite people to read on the tech industry. We will be back.

On Thursday with a little bit more.

Behind the.

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