It over 60 years ago. The credit union was created with one purpose to provide the essential funding that's the lifeblood of any thriving community. And to do this not for profit, but for better reasons. For members, for communities, for fairness, for futures, for potential, for inclusion, for change. The credit union for you, not profit. Credit unions in the Republic of Ireland are regulated by the Central Bank of Ireland.

The assassination of President John F. Kennedy is the greatest murder mystery in American history.

That's Rob Reiner. Rob called me, Soledad O'Brien, and asked me what I knew about this crime.

We'll ask who had the motive to assassinate a sitting president. Then we'll pull the curtain back on the COVID up. The American people need to know the truth.

Listen to who killed JFK on the iHeartRadio App Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hi, I'm Daniel Tosh, host of new podcasts called Tosh Show. I'll be interviewing people that I find interesting. So not celebrities and certainly not comedians. We'll be covering topics like religion, travel, sports, gambling. But mostly it will be about being a working mother. If you're looking for a podcast that will educate and inspire or one that will really make you think this isn't the one for you, listen to Toss Show on the iHeartRadio App Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast.

Media.

Okie doke.

Robert's just like dry eating, like a.

Whole piece of paper sized sheet of seaweed.

Yummers.

I don't even think you've chewed.

You're just inhaling the seaweed.

Oh, no. Seaweed turns to a sweet, sweet liquid in your mouth. That's good stuff.

Thanks for that.

Yeah, that's going to really piss off a significant chunk of the audience. Speaking of a significant chunk of the audience, matt Lieb.

I'm back, baby.

Wow.

Gotta know the thing.

Wow. Thank had. We've been waiting for years to have Nick Cave come in as a guest on our podcast and just thrilled to have him. Thank you.

Nick, take a little walk to the.

I love that. You yeah, great.

I watch Peaky Blinders.

Oh, man, that's such a banger. Oh, Nick Cave just a ton of bangers. I'm always a murder ballads guy.

But I mean, listen, he's a very talented, talented, deep voiced man. Yeah, but Peaky Blinders, now that's a goddamn that's a great show, man.

Yeah. Peaky Blinders, which is about children, right?

It's about Roma people. But there are children in it.

There's children in it. And there's also children in Portland. And you can help them have access to a museum by texting bastards to 50155 to donate to the Flip Museum.

I could have helped you with that transition.

No, I think it worked. I think it worked.

Happening. But I was like, well, I mean, it's not really about children. I just decided to get to get that moment.

Yeah, there's kids all over the place in most places, except for in this cult, which is well, actually, a lot of them are, but, you know, let's get back to the story. So Joshua Creffield, as we kind of closed out the last episode with I don't really feel strongly that he was necessarily worse than the surrounding society. This is one of those cases where not really a clear good guy.

Right.

But he was a pretty he was still an abusive cult leader. Right, right. Because he's a cult leader. He's a cult leader. All that goes with it.

I think not a good guy is kind of relative, but cult leader, I think we can say. You make your judgment for yourself.

Yeah. So one of the things about him as a cult leader is that he decides after he starts having sex with everyone, that he has been given, quote, the authority to regulate the details of their daily life. Now, his first new rule is, quote, everything except the light of the day is a shoot, which means no lamps, no fires, and no electric lights. Right. Nothing but daylight. Anything else and you're angering God. I think it might have been still okay to navigate via, like, the fires caused by lightning strikes, but I don't know if this ever got brought up to him. Not a lot of lightning in Oregon, right?

I mean, and also, how often are you going to be put in that position?

Yeah. Right. So Joshua had also declared back on the island that sins had to be atoned for by having his followers roll on the ground until he ordered them to stop. This is incorporated into their day long prayer sessions. Creffield also started telling his followers that God only would speak to them when they were rolling around on the ground and that the way to welcome him in was to shout prayers as loudly as possible while, again, rolling around, and if you don't do this, then God's going to smite you. And again, these are like 24 hours sessions. Now, you probably won't be surprised to hear this makes quite a ruckus. And it was noted that neighbors as far as a quarter of a mile away from the Hertz house could hear them rolling around and screaming all night long when they would do these day long.

I mean, you know, it's not exactly an inconspicuous way of no.

Joshua next announced that he had to sanctify their food by touching it with his hands. He exercised extreme discrimination in what was worthy of sanctification, though. So not only did he have to sanctify your food, but he would decide what he was willing to sanctify. And if he didn't sanctify food for a week, you couldn't eat.

No.

What's?

My hamburger? Let me touch it. No, god doesn't want you to have this. Yum, yum, yum, yum, yum. I love it. He's just everyone's big brother.

Yeah.

Just jacking their food, stealing from them.

And saying, God doesn't want he's the professor from that. I think you should leave. Give me that. Give me that. I should have got that. Yeah, that is exactly what he's doing. God. That is quite funny. So if he doesn't sanctify food, then you can't eat, right? So, like, one week, he'd be like, god has only approved me to sanctify bread and water because he wants you to know what it's like to be hungry. And then the next week, he's like, you don't know enough yet. So I'm not sanctifying everything. You can't even have water. And then when people will be like, but we want water. Please don't. Why are we starving ourselves? He would be like, if you don't do this, God's going to take me away. He'll make me leave. If you guys don't starve yourselves this.

Week, god will get rid of the last good dick you've ever seen. They're like, oh, fuck, yeah. Can't let the dick.

That is kind of where this is headed, because next, from Holy Rollers, quote joshua ruled that men, women and children were all to sleep together on the floor in the same room while wearing little clothing. They were to do this. So according to Joshua, they wouldn't know cold or so they would know cold. Joshua established rules about whom they could communicate with if someone wasn't one of God's. Anointed refused to accept the gift of spirit. Joshua told them to have no dealings with the infidels, even if the infidels were members of their own families. So he's isolating everybody. He's now much more directly breaking up families. And this creates a problem because Creffield and his cult are now living at the Hurt family house. And while Maude and most of the rest of the you know, Maude, her brother, one of her sisters, her mom, they've all joined Joshua's cult. Their father, the patriarch of the family O v. Hert and the owner of the house, has not joined the cult, right? He has refused to. He's letting them all crash here because he doesn't want his daughter to freeze to death in the woods.

But he is not in the cult. And Creffield has just said, you have to shun everyone who's not in the cult. And this is kind of sad, because in our whole story, ovi Hurt is the only nice like, everyone in town basically agrees. He was just, like, a really helpful, kind man. And again, he had agreed to let the cult live on his family because he loved his family so much. And he's like, I don't understand what you're doing, but I don't want you to die in the cold. Please come live with me. Sure. I'll take your cult leader too.

And Joshua, we call that enabling.

He is enabling. And Joshua punishes him for it because he's like, I know that we're living in his house, but you all have to shun your dad. You can't call him Dad's. God's the only father.

There's only one Daddy. It's me.

Call him the black. Yeah. Yeah. Very wild shit. And he's like, you need to tell him whenever you have a chance that God's going to kill him. Right? Like, don't call him your dad and let him know he's going to be punished.

Yeah. Call him a black devil and that God wants him dead, but have a regular relationship. I don't want to be otherwise.

Sure, don't be. Yeah. Now, as you probably would not be surprised to hear, this is kind of a bummer for Ov, right? Not a happy way to live. So by the end of October, he gives in and he's like, fuck it. I'll join the cult. What else am I going to do? Life is terrible otherwise. He quits his job. He sends them, like, his two weeks notice, and he's like, I now realize I've been living in sin and I'm going to go join a cult. And he puts a note on his front door that says, positively no admittance except on God's business, which I also have on my front door. Different God. Sure. Different God. Think deeper. Think older. More underwater. Anyway, the Holy Rollers are overjoyed that Ov has joined them. And like all of us, they knew the best way to express their joy was by lighting shit on fire.

Hell, yeah.

Which they did, using all of OV's possessions as kindling. So they take everything. Once he joins, they take everything he owns. His carpets, his beds, his sheets, his precious family heirlooms, his things he'd inherited from his dad family photos. And they light them on fire. They build a big bonfire, and they're like, this shit's carnal. So we have to burn it.

God damn it. You just want to be with his poor motherfucker.

Now, Frank, the guy who had made the newspaper, because he rode his bike to Oregon City, he throws his bike on the Pyre, right, because he's in the Colt. So he has to burn his bicycle as carnal. And once they've finished with the furniture, the Colt digs up all of flowers and grapevines and fruit trees, their garden, and they burn that, too. Last, they take all of the family livestock, their chickens, as well as the pet cat and dog, and burn them alive. Yeah.

All right. I officially don't like yeah.

Now we're on to the monster part, right?

Listen, you can fuck my wife all you want, but you leave my kitty cat out of this, you son of a bitch.

Yeah, so that's good. Although there's some debate as to whether or not the animals were alive when this happened.

Okay? Well, I don't know.

Imagine that it's the less horrible option, I guess. Yeah, they're both pretty bad.

I like him again. He can keep fucking my wife.

So they decide next that they should march on another family home, the Hartley residence. Warren Hartley is again not a follower of the cult, but his wife and daughter are. So, like, his wife and daughter while he's like, away at work, start lighting his shit on a fire, and when he comes back, he gets a shotgun like, fuck you guys. Right? So this whole bruha obviously makes the local papers. Kind of a wild thing to happen in your small city.

Did he shoot anybody with the gun?

He doesn't shoot, no. He should have.

Yeah.

But he does not. Probably because it was his family doing a lot of the burning.

Right.

So this becomes enough of a story that several thousand Oregonians travel from nearby to drive and walk past the house where this is all happening just to be like, maybe we'll get to see a crazy person. There's not much going on in Oregon at this point.

Very boring. We very boring enough. A guy burning a bunch of shit with a shotgun nearby is like, literally watching 1990 Seven's. The Titanic.

Yeah. Hey, honey, you know how our lives are unendurable drudgery? Let's risk them by traveling 18 hours by foot to look at a crazy man.

Wow, look at him burn.

This was worth both of our sons dying of tetanus on the road.

I ate my child. But it's fun to see that that lady's almost got her titties out. She's dancing.

Oregon, this had all gone. Sorry. So, yeah, this becomes like a whole thing and a rumor starts to spread, right. Based on the fact that they burnt their pets on this pyre. That an adopted child had also been because the hertz have a kid they adopted and no one's seen the kid in a while. So they're like, oh, shit. Did the cult light a baby on fire? Because Creffield has been preaching that this adopted child since they know you spend some money on the adoption process. Right. So that makes this child profane and of the world and thus not worth a living.

Dickhead.

Yeah, he's really made a heel turn now.

I don't like him.

Yeah, good stuff. So Creffield has not gone that far, thankfully. No children get lit on fire. As far as we're aware of, no kids die in this story, in fact, which makes it fairly rare among behind.

The this is yeah, this is new for you.

Yeah. Celebrate a kid not dying in this by donating to the Portland's children's.

Yes, please.

Right? Yeah. 50155 text there. Then you can donate. Bam. That's a fucking plug.

That was it.

While Creffield has not lit a baby on fire, the rumor is widely believed enough that the police have to make a welfare check. And not very pro police here, but like, yeah, you probably want to check up on that. Yeah. It seems like they're lighting cats and dogs on fire. They might kill a baby. There's no way to know.

I mean, what else is your job? You know what I mean?

Right.

That's a part of it is like, hey, we got a loose cannon in the neighborhood. Fucking all the wives burning all the pets.

Maybe we take a look at this.

Let's just give a little knocky knock on the door here and see if.

Show up at the Hurt house. And Ov lets them in, and they enter to find the house empty because everything's been burned. All the furniture has been burned, and all of the rollers are lying near naked in a pile in an empty room, like, weeping. Some of them are crying. Some of them are laughing. All of them are chanting loudly in prayer. A lot of them are rolling around. They seem kind of, like, manic and crazy, right?

Sure.

None of them have eaten in days. They all look exhausted and, like, starving. So the police are like, well, yeah, this does seem like it could be a problem. But Ov takes them to the adopted daughter, and so, well, the kid's not dead. And so next they're like, did you guys kill your pets in a bonfire? And Frank Hurt, who's OV's son, and also in the cult, is like, we killed a dog and cat, I admit. But we did so because we wanted to get rid of them but failed.

Yeah, I don't know.

That's Better.

Listen, we tried to get rid of them.

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. So the end of the year is coming up. The holidays are coming, and that time can be a lot of fun. But there's also a lot of baggage and difficulty that comes with the holidays. Maybe you've got trouble with your family. Maybe you've got difficulty with a romantic partner or a friend. Maybe you need someone to talk to about it. That's perfectly normal, especially if you're dealing with some seasonal blues. The sunlight levels change this time of the year. This time of year can be a lot, and it's natural to feel some sadness or anxiety. So adding something new and positive to your life can counteract some of those feelings. Therapy can be a bright spot amid all of the stress and change. Something to look forward to that helps you feel grounded and gives you the tools to manage all the stuff that's going on. So if you're thinking of starting therapy, give BetterHelp a try. It's all online. It's designed to be convenient, flexible and suited to your schedule. Just fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist. You can switch therapists at any time for no additional charge.

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The credit union was created with one purpose to provide the essential funding that's the lifeblood of any thriving community. And to do this not for profit, but for better reasons. For members, for communities, for fairness, for futures, for potential, for inclusion, for change. The credit union for you, not profit. Credit unions in the Republic of Ireland are regulated by the Central Bank of Ireland.

Hi, I'm Daniel Tosh, host of new podcast called Tosh Show, brought to you by Iheart Podcast. Why am I getting to the podcast game now? Well, seemed like the best way to let my family know what I'm up to. Instead of visiting or being part of their incessant group text, I'll be interviewing people that I find interesting. So not celebrities and certainly not comedians. I'll be interviewing my plumber, my stylist, my wife's, gynecologist. We'll be covering topics like religion, travel, sports, gambling, but mostly it will be about being a working mother. If you're looking for a podcast that will educate and inspire or one that will really make you think this isn't the one for you, but it will be entertaining to a very select few because you don't make it to your mid 40s with IBS without having a story or two to tell. Join me as I take my place among podcast royalty like Joel Olstein and Lance Bass. Those are words I'd hope I'd never have to say. Listen, toss show on the iHeartRadio App Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts.

The cat came back. You know the song and sometimes the cat comes back, you gotta burn it.

Yeah, they did a real homeward bound thing, so we had to fucking light them on fire.

The alternative ending, that would be a.

Really different movie if at the end of that, the family's like, the director's cut the animals, followed us, get the fire going. Yeah. The cops then ask, did you sacrifice these animals? And Creffield is, no, no, we didn't sacrifice the animals. But no, that would be and and Frank says, we have no laws except the Bible. You find nothing like that in the Bible. And O. V is like, yeah, we killed the dog, but it was like a bad dog. It wouldn't obey orders. And so we had sentenced its to death for its disobedience. Right? Yeah, right. Yeah, we had a trial.

We had another dog as judge. It was a jury of its peers, a bunch of other dogs barking and shit.

And this concerns the sheriff because again, Ov. Is this nice man. Like, he's not the kind of guy to murder his dog, but nice guy.

Not the dog murdering.

Yeah, he doesn't seem like the kind of guy who would kill his dog on a fire who would seems out of character. Seems kind of weird for you, man. Which I guess it's nice to be known as. Not the kind of guy who would.

Do no, I'd love that. Yeah, put that on a resume.

Yeah, probably not the kind of guy who would light a dog on fire.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah. So the police ask next, hey, if God told you that you were supposed to murder your small adopted child, would you do that? And Crefield's like, well, you know, it's impossible for me to sin since God is scripting every action that I take. So if I were to burn a child, it wouldn't be wrong.

Now, he tells this to the cops?

He tells this to the cops.

Dude, I like, he's going for it.

He's going for it, right?

Going for it. What can I get away with that.

Is unsettling and honestly, probably should be cause for some sort of action being taken against you. But it's not illegal, right? The cops are like, well, he has not committed a crime, right? There's nothing illegal about killing your own pets, and there's nothing illegal about saying that it wouldn't be wrong for you to murder a child if you haven't murdered the child.

Yeah, I don't know if it's I mean, I guess it's a first amendment issue here.

Yeah, there's a lot going on here.

I mean, I'm a free speech absolutist. Obviously, we live in Oregon. We're a little bit of, like, whites only whatever, but I don't know.

So 19 three not being a high point for animal rights. There's nothing the police can do legally here right? Now, obviously, the Oregon police have acted illegally an awful lot in this period. Most of them are in the KKK in, like, ten years or so when that comes through. So part of why they're not willing to do this is like, these are white Christians, right? So what are we supposed to do? So instead of doing anything, the cops are like, well, we can't arrest you, but we should let you know. All the men in town are really angry, and they are talking about forming a posse and maybe tarring and feathering all of the men running this, you know, heads up. And you will not be surprised to hear joshua does not change his behavior as a result of this warning, because, again, part of what he's been preaching is that once we start teaching the true gospel, everyone's going to hate us. Right? This is within his religious cosmology to be expected, right?

Negative attention, guy. The more negative attention he gets, the more he's like, I'm right.

Yeah. They're trying to cancel us for stealing.

Cancel culture where you can't just burn your pets and fuck everyone's. Politically correct. Portland, Oregon town.

That's. You know what, Matt? That's a great new don't tread on me flag. Like, you still have the snake in the middle, but instead of don't tread on me, it's like, kill your pets, fuck your wives. Good stuff. Good stuff. So after this point, after this police visit ends in nothing, harassment of the cult begins by locals, right? Gangs of men in the night start running up and, like, hurling rocks through the house windows, banging on the door and then running off. One father kidnaps back his daughter. Now, when I say he kidnaps her, she is 22 years old, right? So assuming now legally, women are not independent in this point in time, right? They can't even vote. So I don't know what the law would say about this, but she's 22 years old and has decided she wants to be here. He does steal her, right? Right. And he ties her to her bed in his house to keep her from going back. She spends days, like not sleeping, screaming, refusing to eat. It is pretty bad. Again, not a clear good guy in this story.

Yeah. And tied her down so she can't even roll.

Yeah, she can't roll, right? God's going to be pissed.

Yeah. She's like going through DTS from not rolling.

Yeah. So eventually Creffield and one of his top men, Brooks, flee town to try to avoid because they think they're going to get murdered and try to shack up at a random house in a nearby town called Wren. And they're like, knock on this old lady's door. News does not percolate quickly, so she doesn't know who they are. She just sees two dirty guys coming off the road being like, hey, we need a place to stay for the know. We're starving. And being a nice person is like, of course you can sleep here tonight, right? Creffield, as soon as she invites him in, is like, hey, you got any pets? Yeah. I'm God's Prophet. Will you cook me dinner? Now, I don't know much about this lady other than this, but I like her because as soon as this guy says, hey, I'm God's chosen one, make me dinner lady, she's like, oh, yeah, of course. I just got to go to the grocery store real quick. So she rolls down to the grocery store and then finds the nearest group of armed men and is like, hey, I need you to deal with this guy for me.

And so a bunch of like, lumberjacks show up with weapons and are like, we're going to make this a problem if you don't get the fuck out of this lady's house. Which is pretty cool. That's pretty based.

That's a good story. This lady, you know what? She's got a good head on her shoulders.

Smart.

She saw the red flags and said, I got to get lumberjacks.

Yeah, some lumberjacks.

Like a tree trunk. We got to get some lumberjacks here.

There you go. So Creffield and this other guy returned to the herd house, right? Because they can't make it in ren ov, hurt by this point, has gotten tired of being in the cult. He was never really into it. He just didn't want his wife and kids to hate him. So a friend of his is like, hey, you seem really depressed and you lit your dog on fire. You want to go to Portland with me for a know, just kind of clear your head, right? And he's like, yeah, that actually seems like a good and this friend is his daughter's former fiance, James, right? The rich guy we heard about earlier. So James is like, why don't we take a drive? You look like you need it, man.

Look like you need some air to not be around the ashes of your former life.

So as soon as he gets away from this, he's like, oh, fuck, I don't want to be an occult man. This is terrible. I made a horrible yeah. So he returns home now, de, radicalized, I guess, just in time to learn, like everyone else, that God has given another message to Joshua Creffield, his anointed.

Great.

And I bet you're not going to be surprised to hear that message, is you should marry a 16 year old.

Oh, yeah.

That's always where this was at, where.

It was going to end up. There's a lot of roundabout ways that people try to eventually marry a 16 year old.

And this is one that's the thing. For all of the enjoyment that I have about the concept of sex cults, whenever you're talking sex cult, there is a moment in which the leader is going to marry a 16 year old. I know that's every one of these stories, I've read a lot of them.

It always goes in that direction. And it's just like every single time. You've ruined sex cults for me.

Yeah, exactly. We need a new non problematic sex cult. Honestly.

It's like an ethical sex cult where scent is key.

Yeah.

And there's none of this let's just.

Say it's minimum age 28. Right. We're really going to go in above the line, right? I think we could make a lot of money.

Let's do it. Let's get that island. Robert let's do it.

This is a good idea. This is a good idea. Don't so, yeah, the 16 year old that God has told Joshua Crefill to marry is a cult member named Esther Mitchell. And so he's like, yep, we're going to get hitched. God says it. She's going to be the new Mary. But before this can all happen, esther's sister commits her to an insane asylum in Portland, which is, again, everything about all of this story is problematic. Right. Like, involuntary commitment is a huge part of what's going to happen, not just to Esther here now, the asylum, because she's too young for the straight up insane asylum. She's sent to the Boys and Girls Aid Society, which is both like, if you're an orphan, if you're like a homeless youth, it's where you'll go. But it's also where kids who are declared insane go because they can't go to the adult asylum quite yet. Right, right. This is, again, lot that's problematic about this. And Esther fights like hell. As soon as she's institutionalized, for days, she would refuse to eat. She would just shout, glory to God and other such things. Her brother this is one of the her brother George visits her and is like, hey, me and your other brother, we really love you.

We want you to come home. And she was like, you are only my brother's in name. Yeah. That'll definitely fuck you up. That is not a cool thing to say.

Yeah, well, you're a fucking bitch. That's what I would have yeah, well, you're fucking stupid.

Yeah. She has reason to be angry. Let's not pretend. Anyway, it's messy. So Esther may have been the most dedicated of Crefield's believers. One night, she told the matron of the facility that she's stuck at that God had started speaking directly to her and the matron for whatever she says. The woman who runs this is like, I think she is going to murder one of the other children. Not unfair. Reasonable. Yeah. So all of this enrages the community even more. Like, this is not nothing is fun about this anymore. This is like a virus sweeping through our young women. That's how the men are treating it. And, like, we need to fucking do something here. And Sophie Co, one of the reasons I like her essay here is that it does a good job of describing how a lot of this anger comes. Fact. Not out of the fact that aspects of what Joshua is doing are really abusive, which they are, but out of the fact that Joshua has made the local women ungovernable. Right. And here's what Sophie writes. The Corvallis Times reassured the public of their feelings, saying that they had good reason to be against creffield for leading women, girls and others into delusions and unnatural conditions, into a state of mind where there is more frenzy than reason, more folly than since people were not angry that he had female followers, but that they were only female.

The Corvallis Times also explained why this aspect was so significant, claiming that the idea of women freely running around and abandoning their husbands, fathers and brothers was what made it so maddening. She was out of the world and he was of the earth, and she would have nothing to do with him. The fact that women were engaging in such wild behavior without men threw off the balance of corvallis, both in perceptions of social roles and in daily life. Creffield was altering the community already, and this was just the beginning.

I love that. Of course, that's the main issue of these men is they're just like, listen, I have no problem with you guys fucking, you'd fuck my wife, but I have to watch. That's my thing, bro. The fact is that it ain't fun if the homies can't have none. Dog, you're just doing some real selfish shit.

Well and you're letting them dress slutty. You're letting them like their heads aren't covered. They spend a lot of time about how these women do not wear hats.

Oh, my God. They're not even wearing a hat. They're showing their slutty ass hair.

Crazy. Yeah. Speaking of slutty ass hair, there's nothing sluttier than the sponsors of this podcast.

That's right. When they show their hair. Oh, my God. Does God cry? God cries. The devil jacks off great sponsors yeah.

By the way, listen to Matt Lieb's new three hour long Pentecostal sermon. Wait, what did you say?

Said, God cries the devil jacks.

Yeah, yeah. God cries the devil jacks off.

Yeah. Here's a little preview. God cries and the devil jacks off.

What?

Sees a woman.

Yeah.

All right. I'm sorry.

If you want to hear the entire long version of that, matt is performing every night at Hillsdale College for the next eleven months. So check him out there.

Check me out in Hillsdale.

All right. We are back.

Back, baby.

That's right, motherfucker. So good night.

Bye.

Wait. Shit. Hello. We're back. So that December, Crefield addressed his flock at the Hurt home and told them that God had given him a new message. He strips in front of his cult after reading them the story of David and Bathsheba. And he tells them clothing was intended to cover up sin and shame. And if the heart was made pure, there was no sin, therefore should be no shame. So, like you can be naked again just like in the Garden of Eden, because you haven't sinned since you're following me, right?

Yeah. No, it actually kind of makes sense.

It makes sense. But what it's the lead in for? As soon as he's got them all naked, they all start having sex. Right. That is the goal that he's leading them into here is like, once I get them all naked, starting the orgy is going to be a lot easier.

Yeah, it's way easier when you don't have to fumble around with Fruit of the Loom underlooze.

Yeah. As the book Holy Rollers describes, quote and so orgies in the name of God and purification were held in Frank's house during the Christmas season of 19. Three mothers were debauched in the presence of their daughters and daughters were debauched in the presence of their mothers. And after all had been debauched purified. Joshua instructed the women and girls to submit themselves to the lust of other men. The only other men left in the flock were Frank Hurt, Charles Brooks, Samson Levins and Lee Campbell. All of them, that is. But Sarah hurt. She refused to submit to him to make love to him. Joshua finally said that if Sarah would not submit to him, he would drive her out of the church and God would smite her. All she would see in the hereafter was her soul plunging into an everlasting burning seething hell. So rather than risk eternal damnation, sarah risked hell on earth and became a bride of Christ by making love to her son in law in front of her children, just as they had made love to others in front of her.

It was almost cool. It was almost cool.

This is the first definite evidence I get that there was like a significant amount of coercion involved in at least some of these relationships.

I was like, yes, fuck yeah. Frank's going to fuck Samson or whatever. And then you said that part. You should have just left that part out, man.

No, it's pretty abusive now. I think it escalates in its abusiveness over time. I think part of why these people get so into it is that for a while, it is much less abusive than aspects of their daily life. Yeah, but the clamp down has occurred by this.

That's always how it you know, you start off you're just know what's a little bit of just like a little porn here and there, and then one thing leads to another, and you're, like, have to have piss in it. Then everyone's pissing and pissing on each other, and you're like, what have I become? Is that relatable?

Yeah, that's very relatable, Matt. I'm glad that we've increased your backstory with that little anecdote.

I'm doing a lot of world building.

The fans are really putting together a more complete picture of your life.

A heroin addict, and he likes, piss poor. What the fuck?

Yeah, of course. That's like I don't actually want to continue that bit. So after quite a lot of orgies, joshua informed his followers of the new chark. God is, of course, the head of the church. Joshua is the visible head. Maude is now the spiritual mother, and Esther, who is still in an asylum, was a saint and confusingly. Now the church's spiritual god.

That's a weird.org chart.

That is a weird.org chart. I'm not sure how that graphs, but he tells them all that God has chosen Esther to be the mother of the new Christ. Now, again, Esther is 16. She is also institutionalized. Crefield is still obsessed with her, though, because at least part of why the authors of Holy Rollers suggest he's obsessed with her is because at this point, she is the only virgin left in the church. Right. So he attempts to have several of his followers break her free of her asylum. But her mother, sensing this being like, I'm pretty sure he's going to come for her and he might succeed, moves her daughter to Illinois to be with her estranged father. So Daddy abandoned them a while ago, but she's like, hey, I need you to do your job by keeping your daughter out of this cult.

Yeah. Like, one thing.

One thing.

Just one thing. You don't even have to kidnap her. Yes.

So the men of the town who'd spent weeks gathering at night and vandalizing the Hurt House took to calling themselves the White Caps, because they're all wearing these hats to recognize each other. And this ties into the fact that, again, like, a decade after this, all of these guys are going to be in the KKK. I was going to say it's huge in Oregon. This is very much in line with that period of our state history. Right?

Yeah. That's kind of where I was like, why do they just have white hats around? They're very ready thing going. But let's have it cover the rest of the face and let's bring wizards into this for some reason.

Yeah. These guys are so ready to be a vigilante mob again.

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The assassination of President John F. Kennedy is the greatest murder mystery in American history.

That's Rob Reiner. Rob called me, Soledad O'Brien, and asked me what I knew about this crime. I know 60 years later, new leads are still emerging. To me, an award winning journalist, that's the making of an incredible story. And on this podcast, you're going to hear it told by one of America's greatest storytellers.

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Little is happening in Corvallis.

Yeah.

So, yeah, these guys all eventually corner Creffield and Ov hurt's son Frank outside of the Hurt house and tar and Feather. Yeah. Yeah. I don't have a problem with this. They have that coming. They've got it coming. Yeah.

They've been asking for a taring begging for it.

Oh, my God. So one local paper describes the incident thusly, quote, there was no attempt at secrecy by those who took part in the affair. None wore masks and none affected a disguise. The identity of many of the party is known. And these are men of standing in character, not a boy or hoodlum in the party. That's fun.

They're just upstanding members of society. Turning a weird rapist cult into little birds or whatever.

Is it supposed to make you look like a bird?

I never understood what's called tarring and feathering thing.

Yeah. So it's not clear to me if the police refused to intervene here because they supported the white caps in doing violence to Creffield, or if they're just like, if we intervene, our neighbors will murder us. Right. Both are plausible, either cowardice or complicity. Perhaps a mix of the two. Either way, cops to yep, yep. Either way, nothing is done about this. Creffield promises that he will not let the actions of criminals stop his preaching, but he's also smart enough to know that, like, well, if tarring and feathering doesn't work, they're going to try to murder me next. Right. That's the only place to go. So I should probably take evasive action.

Yes.

So he has his followers clean him up and then still reeking of tar, he gets married. Right. And after this, he announces that the cult will be moving to Portland together, inaugurating a grand tradition that continues to this very day. Now, this pisses off the men of Corvallis, right. Who see their chance to get their wives and daughters back from Creffield slipping away if he gets to this degenerate big city. Right, right. Then there will be nothing stopping. Portland is, you know, it's still a much more conservative place than it is today, but it is also the kind of place where maybe a guy like him could get away from the justice. A bunch of drunk rednecks could.

Right. He's one of many sex cult leaders.

Yeah.

Get in line.

So fortunately for them, for the men of Corvallis, joshua Creffield was incapable of exactly one thing, and that one thing is not being on his bullshit. So as soon as the cult moves to Portland, he tells them all that we're staying here until the annihilation of material things, which I think is going to come in a couple of weeks. So we'll move to China after that to preach the gospel. Right? That's the plan, yeah. While they wait for that, he renews his relationship with the wife of Burgess Starr, one of his early followers who had left. Know, the wife fucking started. So Starr at this point goes to the cops. Because adultery is illegal in can, it's punishable by up to two years in is it's very rare for this to get prosecuted? Not because adultery is rare. I think adultery is about equally common in every era. It's because if you're going to press charges, you have to admit that your wife cheated on you and like most men would rather die. But it says something about the kind of guy Burgess is that he is willing to kind of take this hit because a lot of men could press charges for this in Corvallis, he decides to take this hit on himself, this burden, and report Joshua, and this opens the floodgates.

Another twelve men, who are all former cult members, kind of come up afterwards and make similar allegations. And it's one of those things, this is where things get fucked up. Like, obviously I don't think it's super fucked up for Burgess, given the situation, to do this. But what is fucked up is what has to happen to his wife Donna as a result of this. Because since he's making this allegation, for it to be taken seriously, donna Starr has to testify that she has slept with Joshua Creffield and she is still very much in the cult. So you might think that it'd be difficult, right, for her to get her to admit this, but in this case, rampant sexism kind of comes to the rescue of the men of Corvallis once again. So basically, Burgess brings his wife to the police station and the police are like, yeah, we need you to sign this affidavit saying that you've had improper relations with Joshua Creffield. Well, we need you to sign this affidavit. They don't tell her what it tell her she has to sign it and she can't really read. So they have her sign a thing that says, I fucked the prophet, but she doesn't actually know what she's right.

Right, yeah. That sounds also like classic cop shit, right?

Very classic cop shit. Very classic misogyny shit, right. And yeah, a warrant is issued for Joshua Creffield's arrest. So this police dragnet starts across the northern chunk of the state, northwest Oregon, but Joshua Creffield fucking disappears, right? This guy who had been everywhere, who was a publicity hound, who's got all these cult members, suddenly nobody can fucking find him. After a couple of weeks, locals assume, well, shit, maybe he just left the state, right, and we're fucking done with him. So newspapers start publishing articles celebrating the end of Crefieldism. We beat him, he ran scared. We got it. Hallelujah, the cult is over. So the men who had had their lives upended by Creffield's cult like oh Hurt tried to move forward. This also proved difficult. His daughter Maude was still in love with Joshua, and other cult members continued to congregate curiously at their house. Maude still refused to call him Father because that was reserved for God. And so she started calling her father old man Hurt. She turned all of the pictures on their walls around, calling them vain. And she would fast for days at a time. When she would agree to eat, she would demand that she be allowed to eat alone.

Other female holy Rollers were similarly recalcitrant. Newspapers complained that these women in the cult would, even now that Crefield was gone, were still parading around in public, quote, with hair unbraided and unkempt, flowing and tangled masses. This was seen as evidence of mental illness. The Albany Herald wrote sane people don't go bareheaded.

Yeah, I love that. I love that. There was a time where that was the hottest thing ever, was just like your hair showing dog catless women.

Now for the kind of sane people don't go bareheaded line. Sophie Co provides some valuable context here. In her paper, Minerva Kaiger Reynolds explained that one day her and her family were shocked when we saw the women pass our house, their hair hanging down their backs, barefooted. Because of how confined women were to their social roles. If they did not keep up their image, even to the smallest detail of tying up their hair, the public might believe they were crazy. Some, including Esther Mitchell, were taken to other places by their families or partners to separate them from the lifestyle of the Holy Rollers. And so, you know, bad, not great. Maudhert gets institutionalized as a result of this behavior. She is admitted about a month after Creffield disappears. She is admitted to the insane asylum. The intake paperwork declares that this is because she refused to wear, quote, any covering for the head. And in fact, when she was given bonnets and stuff, she would destroy them. Mayhurt was also committed to the asylum. So was Sophie Hartley. And eventually, basically all of the Holy Roller cult are admitted to insane asylums.

The thing is, some of the behavior feels like maybe psych ward adjacent. Like I would be like, yeah, maybe, I don't know, get on a little bit of that gabapentin, some of that Sarahquil dog. I think that would help. But it sounds like the reason they chose was just of the time you're.

Not wearing a hat. Lock her up.

You know what else has hair? The pussy. Put her in jail.

No, they are actually all very lucky that this was when it was, because if it was a little bit later, they'd have had their fucking brains scrambled by a lobotomist.

That's a very good point.

She's going around hatless. Break her brain.

Yeah, break the picker in the nose. Take a little bit of that.

I should say, just to give you some context, they have institutionalized basically the whole cult at this point, which is fucked up. It is worth noting that in this period of time, one out of every 200 Oregonians has institutionalized god damn. A lot of people get thrown in crazy people jail and basically all of them for no good reason.

Yeah, but is it weird that I'm like low key jealous of their robust social services budget?

I think you might want to google a little bit about how institutions were in this period of time before you get jealous.

You mean, they didn't have Jello pudding Pops and TV in every room.

I'll have to Google when Jello was invented.

Okay, well, we know TV was like one seven hundreds.

Yeah, one seven hundreds. So, yeah, I think all in the Family is really big in this point.

Yeah, that's good enough.

That's not bad. Yeah.

Invented in 1897.

Motherfucker. Oh, yeah. They got Jello, baby.

They got Jello. They got Jello.

I take it back.

How bad is it?

This is fine.

Yeah, this is fine.

So as the months after Joshua's disappearance rolled on, the scale of commitments expanded as cult members refused to turn away from their beliefs and reintegrate with society. The last of the cult to be institutionalized was Sarah Hurt OV's wife, after he announced that she had been willing to sacrifice their adopted baby. He's like, hey, actually, you know, when I said we were never going to kill that baby, I actually had to stop my wife from killing that baby. And when he wouldn't let them do it, Joshua was like, all right, well, we're not going to burn the baby alive, but you're not allowed to feed it or wash it.

Jesus Christ.

Yeah, he hurt later said, quote, my wife and daughters came to believe that I was defiled and that this little one was defiled at the suggestion of that viper. They talked of making the sacrifice of the child. They would have burned her along with their clothing, their furniture, and the cats and dogs which they declared to be of this world and unfit to live. They were all crazy. Yes, crazy. I was pleading, threatening, and trying with all my power to bring my wife and daughters back to sanity, but without a veil. And again, this dude who's generally considered to be like the nicest guy in town, is then like, I would like to hurt Creffield with a bullet if I could. Such a childish way of saying, I want to shoot a guy. Yeah, I want to kill him, but I want to wound him with a gun.

I just want to wound him, like, in the knee.

Yeah, get him right in the knee.

Fleshy part of the thigh or something. But I want him to be okay.

Yeah. I don't want him to die. I'll take care of him after.

Yeah, we could be friends. I just think he deserves a little bullet. Bullet.

Just a little bullet. Yeah. Now, after July, Creffield stays missing, everyone's fucking locked up. And then on July 29, when he's been missing like, four months, something like.

That, he bursts out of the center of the earth with the longest long you've ever seen.

You literally called it. That is exactly what is that's? That's so so I feel like I've.

Called multiple different acts breaks.

This one is weirdly exact. Because what happens is the hertz adopted son, Roy is like, looking for worms because he wants to go fishing. And the best way to do. He goes under the foundation of the house to dig for worms. And as he gets under there, he looks up and he sees a naked, emaciated man with a wild beard, like, staring at him with crazy eyes. And eventually, because Roy's family was in the cold, he's like, oh, my God. That's Joshua creffield. He's naked and under. He's been living under our house, not eating for three or four months, just.

Quietly whispering, bring me pussy.

So it turns out that Maude and May had been feeding him. That's why they were like, they would starve themselves and then be like, I'll eat, but only if you don't watch. They'd been giving him their food, right? And then when they get institutionalized, he had started to starve. Oh, no. Roy, obviously having a good head on his shoulders, calls the cops and is like, there's a cult leader living under my house. And the cops show up and they grab him, and they're like, were you just going to stay there until you starve to death? And Creffield was like, I went under the house because I was told to hide away by the Lord. I was crucified. While I was there, God came to me. I was to suffer for my people. I was to die from hunger and from the cold.

Someone's patting them on the back. All right, buddy. Sure.

Yeah, sure. Let's get you somewhere else. Are you hungry?

You hungry? Let's go.

Well, they do feed him next.

Sure.

So this is where I said, you weren't exactly right. They pull him out of this hole in the ground, naked and in broad daylight. The men of Corvallis who have assembled to watch this get to see why he's so popular. Because this dude is hung like a fucking stallion. Like the sheriff deputy describes it as wonderfully endowed by Mother Nature.

I love it. Everyone just collectively went, oh.

Okay. This all makes a lot more sense.

We should get my wife out of the insane asylum. Oh, fuck. They didn't say it was fucking massive.

Yeah.

Oh, my God.

So he gets taken to Portland. He's put in jail, and they feed him and stuff. He's given some time to regain his strength before they put him on trial. Sophie Co writes, quote, appearing for Judge Alfred F. Sears, creffield continued to speak as Joshua in court. He claimed that he did not need a lawyer and that God would will whatever was meant to happen. If he were found guilty, he would receive it joyfully. Donnastar admitted to the actions that Creffield was accused of, claiming that she was inspired by God and truly believed that relations with Creffield allowed her to purify herself. Four other witnesses testified against Creffield, claiming that not only had he committed adultery with many women, but also that was the reason that their mothers, daughters, and sisters were going insane was because he had made them brides of Christ. The evening Telegram described the courtroom as being crowded to all doors and all forenoon by staring morbid crowd bent on catching a glimpse of the religious crank.

Now just the whole jury and judge while he's talking are just staring at his pants going, come on, I want.

To see it twitch like a cat's. So he acting as his own lawyer and justifying his crimes by saying he had to make brides of Christ. Isn't a winning strategy.

Doesn't work. Yeah.

Crefio also refuses to call any witnesses in his defense, and instead, he quotes the Bible repeatedly and describes his sex with Donna as a purification. Right. He is found guilty and sentenced to a bit less than two years in prison. He serves 17 months and is let out early on good behavior. And as thanks for performing community service while inside, he moderates his behavior slightly, and some people started to think, like, maybe he's turning over a new leaf. But then as soon as he's let out, he gets right back together with his followers and the Hurt family. They've all been let out of the institution now, and he's like, hey, guys, let's all get back.

Baby.

Yeah. So he had married Maude since he couldn't marry Esther, but they got divorced while he was in jail, so he remarries her as soon as they're out. She seems to be down with this. Maude is definitely one of the women who is all on board with this cult. So is you know, she had been moved to Illinois to live with her absent and uncaring father. And as soon as she hears that Crefield's out of jail, she moves right back to Oregon. So she has become even more devoted in her time away and would now tell anyone who would listen that Joshua is not just a prophet, but God himself. Now, it's kind of unclear exactly how this all times out, but soon after this point, joshua stops referring to himself as an apostle searching for the bride of Christ and starts declaring himself to just be Jesus. Right? That's where we are now, right? I am the second coming. All that good stuff. Yeah.

It's a third act. He's got to go there. He's got to go there. There's nowhere else to go. But I am God.

And you know what else signifies that? We're in the third act. What our second ad break. Yeah.

I love ads, man. So do I. I love when they tell me what to buy.

Oh, that's my favorite.

Because I don't know what to buy most of the time.

No.

Well, now you like, I guess I'll just buy drugs, and they're like, no. Have you ever thought of buying a lawnmower?

Yeah. A meal box, a bed, a mattress.

Exactly. Or online therapy.

Yeah, sure.

All that.

Check it all out. All of it. Buy everything. We're back by me, baby. So we're talking Jcrizy. Joshua Creffield. So, yeah, he's back. He's walking. Around. And basically all of his cult members are like, life sure has sucked without you because it's Oregon in 1906. Can we join up again? Yeah. Nobody else here has. Good dick game. Let's get back into it. Right? Sophie Co writes, quote, as men were experiencing their wives and daughters abandoning them to follow Creffield for a second time, anger rose again. Among those in Corvallis, many were plotting against Creffield, some half heartedly and some very seriously. Lewis Hartley, a father of one of the brides, attempted to shoot Creffield five times, but each time, the gun failed to shoot a bullet. Now, there was a belief within the cult that Creffield, being Joshua, could not be.

Uh, that's not going to work out well, I can feel nope, nope.

And this is, by the way, the fact that this guy fails to shoot him six times is less miraculous than it may sound because Hartley does not know anything about guns. So he buys a 32 caliber revolver and then he buys 32 caliber ammo. But his revolver is a center fire revolver and he buys rim fire 32 caliber ammo. And the difference between the two. So bullets have a thing called a primer in them, right? And the hammer strikes the primer. The primer ignites the gunpowder that makes bullet go, right?

Sure.

Most modern bullets are center fire. So there's a little primer. If you look at the back of a bullet, there's this little silver thing that's the primer in the back of the bullet rim fire. It's on the rim. So if you're shooting a rim fire bullet out of a center fire gun, the firing pin is not going to hit the fucking primer. Right. It just won't.

Totally.

Yeah.

No, I get it now. Yeah. I know about guns.

Yeah. I just want to note it's not inexplicable. Right. This guy bought the wrong bullet.

You're saying he's not God, Robert? Because have you heard his hog? Yeah, he's got a God sized hog, bro.

He does have a God sized hog. And fortunately, the men of Corvallis not arms experts, which is really going to work out for him.

One God size hog or a hundred hog sized gods.

Oh, man.

Keep going.

I mean, if they're Havalina sized, I bet repeatedly killing like God in Havalina form would be agree. Yeah. Yummers. So anyway, Crefield himself veers in this story between again being this monster, abusive monster, and also being like, kind of you have to accept, again, all of these women were freed and spent two years not under his influence. And as soon as he came back, we're like, yes, this is much better than our lives. Let's go back. Right. That's an undeniable aspect of this story.

Yeah.

He is, of course, also a giant asshole. And one of the things that happens as they're all getting out of town together, the city of San Francisco burns to the ground after the 19 six earthquake, killing a shitload of people. And Joshua is like, I did that. I was angry at San Francisco, so I killed them all. I'll do it to Portland and Seattle. If you fuck with us, I'll burn your cities down. San Francisco was a warning shot, motherfuckers.

I love that. He hears about a big fire and he goes like, hey, guys, remember when I made yeah, yeah, that was me.

Yeah, it's very funny. So again, it remains up for debate how much Crefield really believed, but he seems to have been aware that this was a bluff, because immediately after making this threat, he leads his cult on a starvation march out of town and towards a location on the Oregon coast along the Yachts River. Now, along the way, Creffield's preferences for nudity increased, and so his followers basically don't bring any clothes with them. They have, like, one blanket for the whole group. And I don't know if you've ever been to the coast of Oregon, but in the dead of summer, it's not warm, right?

It's the coldest beaches always.

Yes. It's not a warm place.

No.

And it's warmer today than it would have been in 1906. So you have to think pretty cold, miserable to be a naked person on the Oregon coast in 1906. So he leads them all to literally the middle of nowhere. They have nothing. And then it's like, all right, you guys stay here. I'm going to go to Seattle with Maude, and we're going to figure some shit out, right?

We're going to start a band.

Yeah.

Just chill here for a bit.

I'm going to find you guys a new home. No worry. So by this point, the men of Corvallis are shitting themselves with rage. Two men who had family in the cult, george Mitchell and Edwin Baldwin, armed themselves and set off on separate vengeance quests to kill Joshua. Mitchell is the one who proves most adept at the task, tracking modhart to Seattle, hurt to Seattle, and sneaking around until he spots the Messiah and his wife outside of a convenience store. They're, like, milling around outside of the fucking well. It's the Northwest outside of the plaid pantry. I don't know if they have those in Washington. Whatever. Maybe it's 711. He pulls out a revolver and he shoots Edmund Joshua Creffield fucking dead.

Like, oh, no, he didn't get to eat those jalapeno cream cheese rollers they got.

No, he sure doesn't.

He sure comes out. There were two for 333. They're really good.

He is not a good dude. I should say this right now, Mitchell, because his primary complaint with Creffield is that by sleeping with his sisters, joshua had ruined them. Right?

Yeah.

So again, no clear good guy here.

Sure.

Sophie's worse, though. Yeah, one is worse. Sophie co analyzes this further. The fact that women were still considered the lesser sex created a role that helped make an enemy out of Crefield, while withholding any power given to his female followers for straying from their social role. Arguments of the time included that by leaving their home and husband overtaxed, their brains and their mental agitation caused wounds that would never heal. Women were not blamed, however, for leaving their families in previous lives. There was a general agreement throughout the public and pressed that these brides of Christ were not to blame for their misguided devotion to him, because by nature they were weak creatures, easily led, mean.

You know, show me the lie.

Yeah.

Where's the know?

Well, Sophie's giving you quite a look.

Just kidding.

I'm going to keep my mouth shut.

So Mitchell goes so easily fucking clearly. No, that's fucked up.

Mitchell goes on trial in Seattle and officials in Portland try to extradite him. They're like, we should try him here because his crimes were mostly here except for the murder. Yeah, they try to extradite him, but everyone in Washington is like, no, you can't let them hold the trial in Oregon. They'll just murder the man. Everyone in Oregon is too lawless and anarchic for a real trial. And in fact, there's a quote from some Washington prosecutors that in Oregon, lynch mobs and anarchy rule. So again, nothing has changed. Nothing at all has changed. Yeah. It's all exactly the same. So they have the trial here, and despite the fact that Mitchell had absolutely committed the crime, he was declared not guilty, basically because every one of the jury was like, well, I would have done the same thing in his yeah, yeah. This winds up not being a good thing for George Mitchell, though, because the jury had been debating not guilty by reason of insanity or guilty. Right. If it had been not guilty by reason of insanity, he would have been remanded to state custody. As it was, he walks out of court a free man.

Right? This is going to be a problem for him because his sister is and Esther. So Esther's like, hey, brother, let's meet up at the trade station to talk about you killing my cult leader.

He had to know this.

He had to know. So he shows up and Esther shoots him in the back of the head with a pocket pistol, just fucking guns her brother down. Now, you won't be surprised to hear this becomes quite a story in the media.

They're like, finally, we don't have to write about a fucking bicyclist.

Yeah. And the news keeps interviewing her. They want her to say, God told me to do it or whatever, or I was in a religious frenzy. But all she'll say is like, I did the same thing my brother did. Right. The law is inadequate to the task of punishing a murderer because he was acquitted. So I did the same thing to him that he did to Creffield. And she uses kind of the same justification her brother has. Yeah, yeah. She'd also pointed out that my brother did what? My brother accused Creffield of making me into a fornicator. But by claiming that he did the same thing that he was saying Creffield did to me, he got me branded a fornicator in society and ruined my reputation. She insisted that Creffield never had sex with her. And yeah, she kind of has a point.

That she does kind of have a point.

Yeah. She is not wrong about this, right?

Yeah. I mean, it's a hell of a way to make a point.

It is quite a point. Yeah. But she's not incorrect here.

I mean, listen, people have gone through far less to make an argument. I'm glad that she went all the way there.

I guess I guess what we're saying is we're proud of you, Esther.

Yeah. We're proud of you. You stuck up for your you stuck up for yourself.

Yeah. I mean, bad pick on the man, but good on you for sticking up for yeah.

And honestly, good for you for pointing out hypocrisy, which I think is always.

That'S the most important part. So Esther refuses to claim insanity. The state forces it on her anyway. Because we don't care what a woman says, right?

It's a woman. They're like, of course she's not going to say she's crazy.

We're the state.

She's showing her hair.

Yes. So she gets committed to an asylum and yeah, eventually she gets out after a couple of years, and she's living at a family friend's place after getting out of the asylum and takes a massive dose of strict nine and commits suicide.

Oh, jeez.

Maude Hurt does the same thing. Right, right after the trial. So, like, the two women who are closest to Creffield kill themselves as soon as they possibly can. And that's the end of the story.

And that is the story of Pete Davidson.

Yeah.

The man with the magic cock.

Pete Davidson would have been murdered by a small town in Oregon if he had been alive in 1906.

There's no other way.

There's no other way. Probably would have been corvallis.

Yeah. He's not even that funny. Kate Beckett sale. What the fuck? No, people are reacting to him throughout the story exactly like I react whenever Pete Davidson has a new girlfriend.

Yeah.

I'm just like, that motherfucker better have ten dicks. That is such a wild story because of the fact that the dick reveal so good.

It's so good.

All in a perspective.

Yeah. This mysterious man, is he a hypnotist? I don't know. And then you see his huge cock. Oh, okay.

I love that. They pulled out a really skinny guy and his massive hog, and they were just like, he's the same size.

The whole crowd is silent. And then suddenly, like, the town idiots like, oh, because we all got tiny dicks. I get it.

Fuck, good for him. He was a piece of shit. But everyone's bad in some way.

Yeah, everyone's bad in some way. Not all in this way. Most not in this way.

Most not in that way. Yeah. I've yet to hear the story of the perfect sex cult. Like, so far, the closest is being in Theater crew. That's the closest to a sex cult that exists without all the just like, join the theater program at your high school or college.

No, do not be telling our listeners to do that, Matt.

Well, if you're in high school if.

You'Re in high school, join theater.

If you're in high school I thought that was implied.

No, I think the whole history of sex cults means that shouldn't be implied.

You're right. You make a good point. You make a great point. I'm saying join your local theater company, and you don't even have to act. You just run the lights, and that's like a sex cult. That's what saying.

Yeah.

Please do not just go to a high school and say, matt Lieb sent me here to join the cult.

Speaking of which, folks, you can buy our official behind the Bastards, laminated matt Lieb sent me here cards for whatever you want to do. Use them for anything.

Anything you want. Just pop them on top. Know anything?

Yeah.

Oh, fuck.

Anything else you want to plug, Matt?

Yeah. Other than Matt Lieb's tips for how to join sex cults that are non problematic, listen to my podcast, bod Yourself a Gun, a TV rewatch podcast, and it's wherever you get your podcasts. And once again, tickets will go on sale soon for Sunday, March 17, in Sacramento at the Sacramento Punchline. I'll be headlining with my wife, my wife, Francesca Fiorentini. And finally, follow me on know there's a lot of things going on in the whole Gaza Strip. In and mostly bad things. A lot of bad things. And as an anti Zionist Jew. Did I say Jew?

Yeah, you did.

As an anti Zionist Jew, I have some thoughts on it, and I've been making some videos, and if you want to check those out, you can go to Instagram at Matt Liebjokes. That's my account.

Gram him, folks in aju. Yeah, exactly. Speaking of sauce, if you want to provide the special sauce to children in Portland, the Portland Children's Museum. Okay. Okay, let's retake that. Not at all. Speaking of sauce, the Portland Children's Museum, the Flip museum is raising money. It's a traveling museum. They provide mobile exhibits throughout the Portland metro area for kids. It's a good cause to donate text Bastards to 50155. That's bastards to 50155. All right, we're done. Go home. I love you.

Love you guys.

Or you.

Behind the bastards is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more from Coolzone Media, visit our website, coolzonemedia.com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast.

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Hi, I'm Daniel Tosh, host of new podcasts called Tosh Show. I'll be interviewing people that I find interesting, so not celebrities and certainly not comedians. We'll be covering topics like religion, travel, sports, gambling. But mostly it will be about being a working mother. If you're looking for a podcast that will educate and inspire or one that will really make you think this isn't the one for you, listen to toss Show on the iHeartRadio App Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts.

The assassination of President John F. Kennedy is the greatest murder mystery in American history.

That's Rob Reiner. Rob called me Soledad O'Brien, and asked me what I knew about this crime.

We'll ask who had the motive to assassinate a sitting president? Then we'll pull the curtain back on the COVID up. The American people need to know the truth.

Listen to who killed JFK on the iHeartRadio App Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.