This is the Bigger Pockets podcast show for twenty five, your time is spent in certain ways, and if you force yourself to do all the hows yourself, your time is stretched and it's ultimately all accounted for. Whereas if you find who's to do these things for you, you now have the time to focus on what you value most. So you free up time, which expands your perspective, which allows you to ultimately make more money.

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What's going on in its Brantner? Host of the Bigger Pockets podcast? Here with my co-host, Mr. David Greene. David Greene, I was so excited about talking to Dan Sullivan about who not how that we got another who, not how guests today lined up. You excited? Oh, totally.

I love Ben. He's a he's one of my favorite people. I was telling you that when we were talking to Dan during the podcast, I was frantically trying to get the information out, like, can we get bad? This would be such a good follow up to to Dan show. Yeah, there's that one two punch is like the first one kind of gets their foot in the door, then the next one delivers a lot of value. And that's what you really need when you have resistance.

That's guts. As I'm listening to these guys, it's speaking to me. I know they're talking to me. I know I need this, but there's a part of me that will resist it. And that's why I like getting hit more than one time to break through. That is so important. Yeah, so well said.

So today's show is with a an amazing author named Benjamin Hardy. So Benjamin Hardy is the co-author of the book that we talked to last week on The Bigger Pockets podcast on the weekend episode. It's called Who Not How Dan Sullivan and Benjamin Hardy. So we had Dan on last week. The reason we're doing this two weeks in a row is, one, this is a very different show than last week. It's very different because we talk to Ben about some of the other books he's written as well.

Now we go into y y willpower doesn't work in some ways to actually get you to do the things that you need to do. We talk about personality and how your traits change over time and how this applies to your real estate. But more importantly, perhaps for today's David and I just know that this concept is one of the most important concepts in the entire world for real estate investors to grow, to learn to become more successful. This concept of Hoonah, how and last time we talked very big picture with Dan Sullivan about that.

Today, we're going much more granular on granular color. Much of the word Greenwall.

I think that's the word. I'm probably wrong. Anyway, we're going to go more specific on how do we actually apply that and do that to our lives. So hang tight for that. It's a phenomenal show.

But before we get to that, let's get to today's quick tip. All right. So last week when we talked to Dan Sullivan and we talked about who not how it means about hiring other people and finding ways to collaborate with other people rather than doing everything yourself. So you're QuickTrip today. We're going to talk about the similar concept today.

So your quick tip is actually a piece of homework for you. And that is I want you to outsource one thing, one thing that you have never outsourced before, and I want you to outsource one thing. It could be your oil changing from now on, could be a lawn mowing from now on, it could be answering your emails. You might find somebody on up work on Fiverr. I don't care. Pick one thing and I want you to outsource it starting this week and then let David or I know, go to our Instagram and find one of our recent posts that talk about this and just leave us a comment that just says, hey, I did this.

You can also put on the show notes of this page, bigger buckets that comes, I show for twenty five and we're going pick somebody and get me a free book just for just for letting us know.

So with that said, we got to get on the Today Show with a thank you for quick tip. That's awesome.

What's the one thing, Brandon, that you know you should leverage because it drains your energy and you hate it, but you haven't yet now been saying for weeks, but it's my calendar management drives me nuts.

I spend an hour just trying to coordinate my Brazilian jujitsu instructor to come to my house. And because it's just it's a mess.

So and you're hiring an executive assistant to take care of that. Right. It's going to be following up with you to hear how that goes.

Yeah, but there are other things that I could probably do. And I mean, there are a lot of stuff I could, you know, we should do.

Once you get that down, we should do a video and put it on Facebook, Instagram, bigger pockets, maybe some live. What do you think? There you go and say. This is how I did it. This is what it looks like now and kind of put the ideas out there for everybody else.

I like it. I like it. We're going do it. So we're doing Instagram live here next week. After the show comes out, David and I will be talking more about what we did for that challenge. So come prepared with yours as well. Now let's get to today's show sponsors.

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Twenty four, I am beardie Brandon on Instagram and bigger pockets at bigger pockets. So follow all three right now. And that's all I got. So let's get the Today Show.

Like I said, we're talking with Benjamin Hardy p h d.

Dr. Benjamin Hardy, wicked smart guy, written numerous books that are all fantastic. I love this dude. And he has so many important things to say about how to accomplish more, how to work less, how to be more fulfilled with your life, and how to make a whole lot more money by doing that.

So that's what today's show is about. So let's get to it. This is who not how our follow up are one two punch, second interview.

All right, Ben, welcome to the Bigger Pockets podcast. And good to have you here. Very happy with you gentlemen. All right. Well, let's go. Let's go.

We got a lot I want to cover today with you on a number of different topics. Recently, of course, we just came up with the book Who Not How, which was phenomenal. Of course, we talked to Dan Sullivan, your co co-writer, co-author, co co-author. OK, so we talked to Dan on the podcast recently and it was phenomenal. But I wanted to go more in depth today on this. But before we get to this, I want to talk about one of your previous like your previous life and other things you've done up until this point, because I think that your journey kind of exemplifies what we're talking about today.

And it's kind of a picture for what a lot of people who are listening to this have to go through. So we started beginning, like, who are you? How did you get the you know, how'd you get into this world?

Yeah. So my name's Ben Hardy, recently finished my PhD in organizational psychology at Clemson University. But while I was doing my psychology degree, I started writing. I knew kind of I had wanted to become a professional writer. I served a church mission and just fell in love with kind of learning. And that got me into psychology. And I did a lot of journaling. And so, yeah, when I when I got into my program, I started studying, writing, and I learned about medium dotcom and started in twenty fifteen and just studied chirality, honestly took online courses to learn how to write the right headlines, learn how to structure my articles and just was successful and was able to ultimately grow a huge list, become a professional writer over the years, and then join networks, join networks like Genius Network, strategic coach, groups of people who could teach me how to ultimately turn my my marketing knowledge, my writing knowledge into like learning and how to turn into a business.

And so, yeah, that was kind of my journey. I wrote Willpower Doesn't Work, which was my first traditional published book that came out in twenty eighteen. And I guess to kind of connect it with Dan Sullivan a little bit, when I was in my first year of my PhD program, which was in, I started in twenty fourteen, I my my aunt joined Genius Network and so she really started to learn from Dan Sullivan and she gave me access to like all of her trainings inside and I just fell in love with what he was teaching.

And so I reached out and try to join strategic coach and I found it to be an entrepreneur. And you had to be making a lot of money. And I was making thirteen thousand dollars a year as a graduate student. That might be like 10 years down the road, I guess. And then over the preceding two years, my writing just really took off. I got a big book deal. And so I spent that joining various networks and I got to know Dan.

And then sometime in twenty eighteen he presented this idea when he first crystallized it as these three words do not how and as I say in the book, I just thought it was so good at that point. Willpower doesn't work was already out and was already working on the next book. But I just said, Dan, if you ever want this as a book. I'm your guy. All right. And so that started it, and that's kind of how we got here.

I mean, there's plenty of things that went on after that, but that was kind of some of the barebone steps. Sure. That's awesome. And it's cool to see to like that journey from like you approached him and he told his side of the story to later. I'd love to kind of get your your your side of that story of how you guys connected and why he worked with you. But before we even get there, you mentioned the book, Willpower Doesn't Work.

Now, this is a book that when I first met you that I go abundance event that you are speaking at, talking about this idea that willpower doesn't work. And I love the concept. Of course, when the book came out, I got the book. I read it. I've read a couple of times now, actually, and I it's probably one of my most recommended books. So could we just spend a few minutes talking about, like, why does willpower have let's go.

Why does willpower not work?

Yeah, because situations are more powerful than people. That's kind of the main idea in psychology, is that we're the product of our context. It actually really fits with you, not how willpower would be doing all the house. Whereas, you know, rather than doing everything yourself, you know, willpower is a way of looking at yourself. It's a very individualistic approach. It ignores context. It ignores the fact that you're persuaded, influenced by other things.

And so, yeah, willpower is it's I look at it from the lens of addiction. I came from a crazy background. My father was an extreme drug addict. My brother is still three hours away from me in rehab. And willpower is the dumbest way to try to overcome an addiction. And so that's kind of a stretched out way of looking at behavior change. If you want to overcome an addiction, you definitely would not do it through willpower.

And so at that same principle applies to making a small change. And so I just thought, why not just write the book that explains the psychology of behavior change rather than trying to kill your way through it? That makes sense. You might benjamín given us maybe a quick example of what it would look like if you're having trouble accomplishing something, how you would tweaker environment instead of just telling yourself to try harder.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I'll give you two examples. One, so I look at environment in two different ways. One is actual environment, like my physical surroundings and the other one is more just general context. So like, what are the ultimate situational factors influencing you? So there's a really good quote from Will Durant, the famous historian, one of my favorite quotes I think about all the time. But he says the ability of the average person could be doubled if their situation demanded it.

In psychology, that's a concept called the Pygmalion effect, that you're either rising or falling to the demands of your situation. If you had a gun to your head, you need to find a way to make a million dollars. You would start thinking a lot more innovative, innovatively, and if you didn't. And so for me, that idea really matters, because when I became a foster parent of three kids, all of a sudden I felt this huge surge of.

I now need to do something differently, in other words, my environment or my situation demanded something more of me. So that's one way of looking at it, like your situation demands your situation and a lot of ways spurs your motivation, the other one. So as an application of that, like actually creating more demanding situations, maybe if you've got like six months to write a book, cut it in half, shorten the deadline so that the situation demands more of you.

So that's that's one way of outsourcing motivation to a situation. The other one is just actually changing the environment, whether it be removing bad default options. You know, a lot of people, they just act unconsciously because of the default. I know when I go home because I'm in my office right now, when I go home, there's going be carbs and bad food all over my environment. And so the default would be that I'm going to go home and just fall into my habit of just and so I have to change the default.

I have to actually, like, have something good set out something. Right. So that I don't set my future self up for failure. And so a lot of it just knowing that the situation is going to crumble you unless you've set yourself up for success and unless you've made a strong decision beforehand what you're going to do.

Yeah. And in a sense, what you're saying is you're humble enough to not believe your willpower is going to carry you through living.

I feel old enough to know that my willpower is not going to carry me through. Let me just share one, OK? Because I do wish that this thought was in willpower doesn't work. One of my favorite concepts about willpower is decision fatigue. Decision fatigue is the idea that if you have too many things on your mind, if you're pulled in many different directions, you your your scrambled eggs, you can't think very well. And so one of the keys to your moving decision fatigue is just to make a decision like cut off alternative options, essentially if you cut off.

One of my favorite quotes comes from Michael Jordan. He says, Once I made a decision, I never thought about it again. Well, the reason why that so powerful is if you make a true decision and if you become accountable to that decision by getting people on your team, like if I'm truly committed to not going home and eating all the carbs, I not only need to be decided in my mind, but I have to have the situation also support me in that decision.

I to tell my wife no kids. Nope. If that dad starts coming home and eating cookies, like call him out on it. And so one of the big things that really helps you build confidence is going into a situation knowing what the outcome is going to be. If I go home and I don't know what I'm going to do, I hope I don't eat the cookie. But if you go into a situation not knowing what the outcome is going to be meeting, you're not decided then you have to deal with decision fatigue.

I then get home and I then think I'm going to eat the crap at home or not. Then I've just put myself in a situation where now I'm making a decision in the heat of the moment. And that's again where situations beat people more often than not beat it out. So you want to really make the decision beforehand and then set up the situation to support that decision so you don't have to deal with decision fatigue. I'll give you a Real-Life example of how I do this, because I thought you were like my my family.

My wife loves to bake just like me. It sounds like you're above the carbs and the cookies and every holiday season there's just crap everywhere. Right?

So I if I walk in the house and there's like cookie dough in the fridge, like there is right now. All right.

I go cookie dough. Yeah, I love it. I talk so good. I will like walk by it the first time. Be like, no, I'm going to have it. And then it's like five minutes later I'm walking by the fridge and I have to make the decision again. I'm not going to have it. And then I walk by again. I'm like, I'm really probably not going to have it. I'm a little bit later. I'm like, I really shouldn't have it.

And then it wears off of it does it totally wears you down. And so one little trick that somebody told me years ago, I don't remember who, but I use it all the time. People laugh at me when I'm in public. But I do this like if you go out to eat with me, you'll find that I do this. And if you notice, I don't know if David, if you've noticed this, I will pour water on my food when I'm when I'm no, I'm done with it or I'll take half my dessert sometimes and pour water on it.

Because now I took out willpower from the equation because I don't want to eat.

You just change.

I change the situation now there's water and people laugh me all the time for like or like I'll I'll take cookie dough off.

I'll make cookie dough against making cookie dough my family. I'll throw it in the garbage right away. Like in that way it changes. I'm going to pull out of the garbage would be weird and then I'll regret it. I'm like, oh I said I've done that, but I'm really happy that I did it.

So I think that that's brilliant. Yeah. I mean, obviously, I'm not saying you shouldn't eat cookie dough. I'm just saying whatever your goal is, if you're willing, if willpower is the thing you're relying on to do it, you're you've already set yourself up for failure. Yeah, that's so good, man.

And another thing I do and you talk about it, I find ways to obligate myself in other ways, like you said earlier about the writing, the book like you have a set number of days. So now, twice now, I've written books from like I have one hundred days to write a book and write the whole thing. A hundred days. And I publicly say it. I'm like, this is the thing. And that becomes that becomes the thing.

We do a thing that bigger pockets called the 90 day challenge, like you're going to buy a property in the next 90 days. It's like this short thing right now.

You can do anything for that for a short period of time. I just got finished with seventy five hard. I love those short term things, but I also I'll get myself to other people. Right.

So like if it's on my schedule and I got a meeting with David, I'm going to show up to the meeting with David. I don't wanna let them down, but if it's on a point with myself, I'm much more likely to let myself down, which is social pressure is the key.

I mean, that's why I came out with this book in early 2000. But this book took me a year and a half to write this book, which took me three months to write for the same reason you're describing is that I had to write this other people. It's almost like I went to the gym with a workout partner. Like like you said, you're not going to let David down. Well, I wasn't going let Dan down. I was going to write Tucker down, let them down.

And so because of the social obligation of their if they wanted the result as well, it was like I had a gym partner. I had to go.

Yeah, I played racquetball really hard core, like four years ago, people in the podcast. I remember when I was really into that because every day I had a partner who would show up and pick me up at the house and like he probably want to go half the time, but he won't let me down. I won't let him down. So for about a year and a half straight, we played five times a week at five a.m. and we just play racquetball.

It was it was the best.

Yeah, I call that a forcing function. It's whatever situational factor forces the desired result and social pressure or just shared commitment to the same goal really makes that easy. Very cool.

Well, let's move to the next book real quick. The personality isn't permanent. I'm saying that. Right, right. Another good, good book. I also have read it. Love it. Tell me about what that book what was the reason for writing that book and what led to that and what was kind of the gist of it just is that common views of personality are incorrect.

Common views of personality are usually what Carol Dweck would call a fixed mindset where we think that our personalities and it's something you look for, you discover and a lot of people are very definitive in their personality. I'm an introvert, I'm an extrovert, etc. And that kind of thinking really stunts your imagination. Really, what I want to do in that book was explain the research behind the idea that your current self is a different person than your former self was.

You see the world differently than your former self. You made you make decisions differently than your former self would and vice versa. Your future self is a very different person than your current self. Even if you don't try to change and don't try to grow in three, five, ten years from now, you're going to see the world differently. You're going to actually be in a different world. Speaking of context, who knows what culture is going to be like?

Who knows what technology, who knows what challenges are going to be like in 10 years from now. And so most people and again, the research is very big on this. Most people think that their future self is essentially the same person they are today. They don't imagine a different future self. And so as a result, they overly defined their current identity. And when your identity and by the way, identity and personality are two different things, identity is how you describe yourself.

It's how you define yourself. It's internal, whereas personality is the byproduct. It's what's external. It's how you show up. It's your behavior. And so people's identities are just so stuck in the present. Whereas if you just define out your future self with imagination and there's a lot of cool research on this as well, it's called prospection. Whatever view you have of your future, that's the thing that actually determines your behavior in the present. And so I just want to write a book to first off show that your personality is going to change.

It's a lot more flexible and malleable than you think. And if you get really clear on your future self, then your identity and your behavior are going to change a lot more in line with who you want to be. I saw that for myself when I went from a background where every day I was in law enforcement and every day, how is this person going to hurt me? How are they going to hurt someone else? You develop a way of looking at the world.

And the only thing that I even notice is a threat. If I'm at a party and everyone's having a good time, it's kind of boring because you're like, well, what's there for me to do? David, scanning the room. Yeah, that's exactly what it was like. I wasn't thinking, how am I going to go contribute to this good time? And then when I became a real estate agent and my ability to grow that business was based on how well I was liked or how well I could network.

I stopped looking only for threats and I started saying, oh, there's a conversation I could contribute, or that's a person who looks like they have no one to talk to where those things I didn't even see it. And I saw my my personality become more charismatic. So it wasn't something where I sat down and said, I want to be a different person. It was literally, like you're saying, a results of a different environment with different pressures.

We're a different version of me was necessary to be successful. And like I took personality tests all kind of throughout my life. And I watch those results change constantly. Like depending where I was the different times, I got very different results. So I think it's very encouraging for people who feel like I just can't do this thing or that's just not me. It may never be like you may never be a power lifter if you're a marathon runner, but that doesn't mean that your you can't do other things other people do.

Would you agree with that, Ben? Would you say that for the most part we have the ability to grow much more than we think?

Yeah. Yeah. And personality is quite different from athletics, you know what I mean? Personality. Obviously, a person has a lot to do with what you can accomplish, like on a field and whatnot. But, you know, I'm not telling people that can become seven feet tall and become LeBron James like this is personality. But yeah, I think the biggest obviously there's a lot of ideas in that book, you know, how trauma shapes personality, how environment shapes personality, how your story, which is your identity, shapes your personality.

But I think the big, big thing that I wanted to at least that I think about now with that book, because I'm actually writing a book right now called Be Your Future Self Now, which is a condensed better version, honestly, than what personality. But I thought for you is, is when you were like law enforcement or whatever it was, security, your goal was different than when you became a real estate agent. Once you become a real estate agent because of whatever goal you had, you then had to ultimately someone you had.

Yeah, and that's really the thing that is the most surprising thing to me is that our personality is actually driven by our view of our future. It's driven by our goals. So if you if you set the goal to become a podcast, you're going to ultimately have to develop new skills and abilities. And so when you when you became a real estate agent, you had a different goal which led you to ultimately having to see the world a different way and having to act in that world a different way.

And so my big thing is really be clear on your future self so that then you can ultimately guide your your thoughts and behavior in a specific direction. What's your stance or how much credence do you put towards subconscious things going on that you're not aware of that are determining how your personality develops? Like I've noticed, certain people are incredibly analytical and it's often what it looks to me is they're trying to protect themselves from feeling pain that comes from making a mistake or something like that.

And so, so much of their personality is driven by things that they never consciously chose. I want to be this person. Huge, full chapter on the book on how your subconscious shapes your personality. And I think that obviously environment shapes of conscious experiences and how you interpret those, the meaning you give to those experiences shape your subconscious trauma or whether it's subconscious is big. And in order to ultimately fundamentally change who you are, you've got to change your subconscious mind.

My view of subconscious is a little different than a lot of people. Maybe a subconscious is, is that it's your average experience. It's you on autopilot. So, for example, someone who makes fifty grand a year, that is their average life, like that's what's normal for them. You know, subconscious is what's normal. It's what's expected. It's what's you on autopilot. Whereas if your future self is making a million dollars a year, then your future self has a different norm.

Your future self has a different average experience, different average day, different average habits, habits and subconscious are very similar. But identity is a big part of subconscious. And so in order to actually get from your current reality to the future that you want, you've got to have the average normal life of a millionaire and that would be unconscious. And I've seen this play out in practical terms in real estate constantly. We refer to it as a baseline.

So everybody has like a baseline of how they think the world is supposed to work or what's normal to them. And in real estate, an example would be the houses listed for seven hundred thousand. So if I pay more than seven hundred thousand, I'm getting a bad deal because my baseline is set at the lowest price. And what we do is we have to go to the client and say, where did you come up with the number that that's normal?

Like that house on the same block is selling for eight hundred and it's smaller now at the thought of paying 750 means they're getting a fifty thousand dollar deal as opposed to I'm overpaying by fifty thousand. And it's an example of how things that don't make any sense are governing the decisions that we make in the way we live our life all the time. Yeah, I like seeking. What I call either subconscious enhancing experiences or subconscious enhancing behaviors in an experience is an experience that shows you that your former view of the world was creating whatever you were having.

You know, so like in the book, I talk about Charlie Trotter, the famous restaurant here, or whatever. He lived in Chicago. He had a really famous fine dining restaurant. Oprah loved his restaurant and he would always bring in impoverished kids, homeless kids from Chicago, because that's where the restaurant was. And he would just do it to blow their minds like these kids had never eaten good food in their life. And he just gives them for free the most fancy meal people come from all over the world.

And and he did it to blow their minds in. A lot of people criticize criticism, but he was like, I'm showing these kids that it's possible to do new things. And so I think that it's important. There's a lot of research on the subject of like one of the core aspects of personality is called openness to new experiences. And I think it's very important to realize your future self sees the world differently than your current self, because your future self has hopefully open themselves up to a lot of experiences that your current self is still shielding themselves from.

And if you go out into those new environments and have those aha moments, your future self could create new things. OK, so when it comes to the application of who not how, I'm going to ask you to kind of give us a gist of what that concept is and then maybe tie it into how your future self is going to be looking at things differently and how the way to get there may not may be the way the concept of who not how perfect.

Yeah. So who not how is very much a strategy. You know, it's a way of achieving your goals rather than you doing the all the house yourself rather than you, whatever it is you want to do. For example, my, my lawn, I have the goal of having my lawn mowed. I would prefer my neighbors would have hope I have that goal as well. And so rather than assuming the burden to be upon myself. Who not how invite you to ask, what if you found someone else to do that for you or what if you found someone to help you with that goal?

And as simple as mowing the lawn, the reason it's an important question to ask who instead of how is it allows you to think, OK, if I could find someone to mow my lawn for 30 bucks a month or 50 bucks a month, what would I then do with those four hours? Is it possible that with those four hours I could spend those in better ways? And then so the book is based on four four what Dan calls for.

Dan, Dan Sullivan calls it for freedoms, time, money, relationships and purpose. But the main idea is, is that. Your your time is spent in certain ways, and if you force yourself to do all the hows yourself, your time is stretched and it's ultimately all accounted for. Whereas if you find who's to do these things for you, you now have the time to focus on what you value most. So you free up time, which expands your perspective, which allows you to ultimately make more money, et cetera.

So that's kind of the big ideas. Don't ask how. Stop asking how. We're trained to ask how in Western culture, because we're so individualistic, we're trained in the education system to compete against each other on tests. I'm supposed to beat the other kid and get the while he gets to be rather than us coming together and seeing what we could create together. We're just trained to think in competition. We're trained to think about doing everything ourselves. And this book forces you to say there's a million people out there who you could team with to help you with whatever goal you want.

And you're going to accomplish a lot more if you get other people involved.

Yeah, you know, it's funny, true story. Just before this call, we were literally just debriefing after the last time David and I were on and David mentioned about. I'm going to share a little private conversation here, David. But David's like, yeah, I had it's like I'm having a meeting with some guy. He's trying to teach me how to buy a certain type of big real estate. David's trying to buy some big real estate deals coming up here soon, which I'm super proud of you, David.

You know, going to that next level. And David, what he said to me was like and we were literally talking about you, Ben, and about Dan and about this book. And then he said, I just got to figure out how to do this one thing. He's going to teach me that. And I've got to figure out how to do this. I just I'm kind of like time to get this done in this done. And I and I, I literally just held up the book.

I was like, I think maybe you need to focus on something else. David, what do you think that could be? And then, like, we laughed about it because, like, the truth is, like the immediate response that we both tend to go to is I got to figure out how to do this.

I got to put that on my back and start walking and telling it like, yeah, that's why is it so hard for us to think the other way?

I think that we don't either. We don't believe that other people can get the vision that you have, whatever it is you now think you have to learn how to do. We don't think that we can bring someone along and say the right person who would happily do that. We either don't think we can get other people on board with our vision or that people want to join us or that we can lead them correctly. It's really a lack of knowing that, first off, it's not that hard to find someone and tell them to execute on the things that now you no longer have to do.

It's it's not that hard to find who's there all over the place is all it requires is that you're really clear on the outcome. And I just think that we're trained to not think we can do it. And I don't think we value our time enough. And we think that it may even take more energy to find out who and lead them. And it really it's I don't know why we do it, but it's we're not trained to have a goal and then ultimately become a leader and let someone else take it over so that we're free.

But we're still getting the benefit of the results. Yeah, yeah. We're just we're not trained as entrepreneurs. This doesn't come naturally. Yeah. I mean, even entrepreneurs who are very successful, they have to train themselves out of it now. All right. Let me read something. I'm going to read this. So I got a text literally at one thirty today here in Florida time. So this was three hours ago. But this is from a guy named Jason Moore.

He's someone who has been deep in the self-improvement and entrepreneurial world for decades. I met him at actually a something called Lifebook back in 2010. Lifebook is like a personal development thing. He said this is just a quote and it's kind of a testimonial. But I just want to read it because it's literally the mindset he said, dude, with you, not how my mindset, way of thinking is changing a simple step with a massive impact. Today I made a to do list.

Well, he said I made it to who list and then cleared all of my to do list of anything that someone else could do. And I ended up with just five things on my to do list, he said. And even though I don't yet have certain who's in place, I'm just organizing things and it's a huge weight off my shoulders, he said. Suddenly I find myself asking others even just around the house, Hey, can you handle this for me?

Two small examples. One asking my mom who's in town to handle stuff I usually do for the kids and to hang our housekeeper two extra days per month so that she's not coming. And so he just said, like, if he's training himself to just ask who rather than always needing to do the burden himself, it's just it's crazy. I mean, really, the books, just about the more teamwork you have in your life, the bigger your future can be, because the more you can think about your future, the more you've got other people doing it.

And for me, it's really important to go straight back to decision fatigue. I'm really glad we very talked about that. If you have 50 to dos on your list, you're not going to have a flow. Stay very much because if your brain's going too many different directions, you can't get into flow. Flow requires that your mind is clear. And so the point of the book is for you to clarify where you want to spend all of your time and energy and effort, your core priorities for me, writing books, doing podcasts and then going home and really spending time and being hyper present with my.

It's if I can find who's that, then allow me to do that so I don't have to deal with all the noise of scheduling this podcast, etc, then I'm free to be in flow for the things I want to do. And I don't. My brain can focus rather than being pulled in a million directions. So to me it's it's insanely important, but it also allows you a lot of leverage to do what you want to do. I know Branded wants to jump in and ask you quite a few questions on the do not.

How we're going to do before we do, I want to ask you, Ben, because you've done this very, very well. You became somebody else's who and that is that is not an easy task. That's I think that's part of the reason why people hesitate to go find their who is they don't know if they can find quality or if that person is going to care. And you really solve that Rubik's Cube of I bring value to the people they come with.

They chose me. They said we want him to be the person to write this book. What can you share about the approach of the mindset that you developed to become someone else's who that maybe you see other people struggling with or not getting right that's preventing this chemistry from occurring? That's a really cool question.

Yeah, I think that, by the way, it goes two fold. We all need who, but we're also the who of other people in various situations. You know, in this case, I'm a who to be on your show. When I go home, I'm going to be the kids. My dad's who I mean, my kids. I'm their dad. That's a show like we are all who's. But we also need who's. And so in this case, I really want to do this book with Dan for multiple reasons.

One of them is just I want to learn from him. Like I just thought this is a cool opportunity. And I learned, you know, speaking of real estate, now, I don't know what your guys opinion of this book is, but like I read, rich dad, poor dad, like ten, fifteen years ago. And one of the ideas it kind of always stuck for me was work to work to learn and you'll always earn. So for me, whenever I'm looking for collaborations or mentorships, money is always like an unintended consequence.

Like I know I know that I can make money if I write a book with Dan, but my primary objective was just to learn as much as I could and also to contribute to his goals. Like I knew that this I knew that if this book existed, it would be an asset to Dan. You know, this book is going to make Dan millions of dollars. Actually, the goal of this book is to get five hundred people in a strategic coach, which you probably already referenced, that would earn Dan lifetime value of five hundred clients.

Forty million dollars. And so I understood that if I went and helped him with his goal, you know, and so I think part of being a who is knowing the other person's goal, wanting to be a student or wanting to be a contributor to their vision. You know, it's not it doesn't always have to be about your vision. In this case, I kind of was able to contribute to the vision, but I was I wanted to support his vision, kind of like Sam to Frodo.

Like sometimes you want to contribute to someone else's vision because it's that important to you. And so I just wanted to contribute to his vision. I was a giver. I was willing to write the book, willing to learn. And I was an enormous beneficiary of all of that. I had obviously positioned myself. I was already a professional writer. I already had a platform. I already had the skills. But even even truthfully, I didn't necessarily have the skills to write this book.

When I jumped in, I knew I had the confidence that I could figure it out. But writing that book was difficult because I'd never done a CO authorship, their ideas that are semi outside of my sphere of knowledge. And so I kind of took a leap of faith to try to be the who. But luckily I had the support with other who's to ultimately help rise me to the level being able to do it. But I want to I was willing I wanted to help him achieve his goals.

And I put myself in his circles so that I could then position myself to go do that. Yeah.

What I love is that we talked about this a little bit with Dan, but I'll rehash it here is that you didn't just come with no skill, no background and be like, hey, I want to write a book for you.

And he would have just rejected that. You came with years of experience and hard work and you got drug through the mud on a number of writing prizes in the past. And so, like, you weren't coming empty handed.

And I think that's a big part of it, is that you came with some kind of with some kind of ability. So first of all, people out there trying to be attach themselves to other people's businesses, like just remember that like, what have you done to earn the right to be that person's who? Yeah. And also, I wanted to bring up this idea that, like, I think there's a tendency for people when they think about hiring or they think about bringing in who is in their life is almost like a like they think.

I know I've been guilty. The thinking that almost derogatorily about that, who like, oh, it's just the housecleaner. It's just the the person I'm hiring. It's just that's a lower position. But I love that you brought up earlier that we are all who is the somebody else? I mean, like, I might be the the owner of Open Door Capital, my real estate company, but I am who to Josh Dawkins' bigger pockets. Right.

I'm recording this podcast right now. And when I started with bigger pockets about eight years ago, helping Josh do the podcast, like like I didn't know hardly anything about marketing or sales or even real estate. I mean, I was OK at real estate, but because I was his who and now I'm a Hooda private equity firm that owns a big chunk of bigger pockets, like that's OK.

I'm fully OK with that because it doesn't have to. A negative thing over all who is in some areas, so let's say you're also rude to the investors for open doors who are doing the job of earning money for those people.

Yeah, I make it. Yeah, they get majority of my money on the fund. I'm who I'll be the worker all day long.

That's, I think a big idea that we want to present in the first place is that you don't want your house to be viewed as lower than you know. If I have someone who's answering my emails making ten, fifteen, ten, let's say they make it 30 or 40 bucks an hour like they're not beneath me because they're answering my emails. They are a huge asset to me. And I think that, you know, this one thing that I love about Dan is he views people as unique.

He views people as skilled. And so rather than looking at a who is a cost, you know, you look at them as an investment. You look at them as first off, you've just if I hire someone for 20 hours a week to answer my emails, that I don't have to do that anymore. I've just made an investment in myself and my future self. Now I have those 20 hours to expand in different ways, but I'm also making an investment in that who like I see them as part of that collaboration.

I see them as wanting to get better. So, yeah, you have to look at people as and who's as collaborators. I would even prefer to look at it that way rather than employees. Is there there they have a special role that helps you achieve your vision in there and you're helping them achieve their vision. And I think that that's actually a part of it. Like, for example, my person who answers my email, I'm helping him or her achieve their goal of providing for their family, of having a job where they can work wherever they want in the world, like I'm actually there.

Who is? Well, because I'm paying them and they get to achieve their goals of working flexible hours, of working for where they want. So I'm actually a huge to them as well.

That's what I love about this concept, is I feel like we spend a lot of time on this podcast harping on finding the person to do the thing for you. And we don't spend as much time saying this is how you be the person to someone else. And it's like you said, it's fifty percent of the equation. It doesn't work. If all we do is say, go find someone to do everything, but we don't ever ask ourselves, well, how do I excel at the thing I'm supposed to do?

And I guess if you really boil it down, then what you're saying is get very clear on the role that you're playing in this relationship. Where are you? Who and where are you looking for a who and then stay within those lanes. So that's typically what creates the secret sauce that makes something really explode is when, you know, the sports teams play the easiest analogy when everyone knows what their role is and they do it well.

Yeah, Tom Brady doesn't view his front line is below him like he sees them as freakin essential and they're all a team achieving the same goal. And without that front line, Tom Brady is screwed. Right. And so, like, they're respected. And if they're not respected in that role, like, you know, doesn't work. So every who is fundamental, every who is important. And, yeah, I mean, I never felt below Dan for writing this book.

He always elevated me because he was like, you're so much better at this than I ever could be. I'm not going to tell you how to do your job. And I think that this job, I mean, in this book and a lot of ways can really redefine leadership because it's not about telling someone how to do their job. It's actually giving them full ownership and autonomy to doing it the way that they want to and trusting that they can.

And I've found that again and again, like I I just hired someone today. And, you know, you give them the vision, you give them what they need, but ultimately you let them own it. And when they own it, they can build confidence and they can get better. Obviously, you're there if you need their help. But I never felt below Dannell. I only felt like he was so grateful that I brought anything to the equation.

And he even said without you this book wouldn't exist. So it's like, that's cool. It gives you it. You never feel below someone when when people are looked at that way and when relationships are looked at that way, they're not transactional, you know, they're not transactional, they're transformational.

So then what catches your attention in a who when you meet someone? I think this person would be really good in this area of my life.

Yeah, well, I look at who's differently. Like I look at like there's people I want to learn from and partner with. And there's like and then there's obviously people like maybe I want to like, you know, hire. I actually let my assistant hire all people on my team because she's the one who actually works with them. I don't I work with my assistant and she works with the team. And so I let her do the hiring. She she chooses the people.

So when it comes to like whether it be like a relationship I wanna develop a partner I want to have usually it has a lot to do with, you know, is this person fascinating to me? Is this someone I want to learn from? Usually it's just initial curiosity, like a lot of it has to do with goals. I have, like, for example, David Osborne. So I know you've who's been on your show, like Met may end up writing a book together.

He's someone I really want to learn from. He's someone who fascinates me as someone who draws me in. I like him as a person. I resonate with him. And I know that I can contribute a lot to his life and I know that he could contribute a lot to mine. And so I know that it wouldn't be a one way situation. I always think about with people I want to learn from or connect with or collaborate with or just be friends with.

Not is it something that we could both actually become better as a result?

Yeah. So that's kind of how I approach it, is I really want to learn, I love learning. I love contributing. Is this someone that I would actually really want to contribute to? Like would I what? I want to stay up at night and work hard out of genuine service for this person as well.

Do you think the who not how applies mostly to businesses that way? Where do you see applied to all areas of life or primarily business.

I'm guessing you see to think it applies all over life, like not to get rich. How do you do that. Yeah. Yeah. So like your kids. Like your kids are who's like I mean it's not always about what they can do for you, it's about what they contribute to you. You know, even in addiction like addiction, you can't do it with how that goes back to willpower doesn't work. You need a who. You need a sponsor.

You know what I mean? If you want to if you want to get to a certain level, you can go to an Iron Man. I recommend you get a coach who's done Iron Man. I like you can apply it to wherever you want to be good at life. You know, if you I'm just starting a YouTube channel, which I know kind of goes back to business, but like get an editor, like get someone who's coaching you, even your spouse, your spouse is probably the biggest who in your life and influences a lot.

So I think who not how is just the quality of your outcomes end up becoming the quality of how you set up your relationships and the quality of who you're in relationship with, like even from a religious point who not how fit Christians see Christ as the who. You can't get heaven without the how, I mean, without the who. So like, I think it has huge application outside of business. Business is just a very important place to apply it.

Yeah, it's so good. Yeah. I mean, I like I've talked about before, but there's a there's a site or app, I guess you call it, called my body Twitter. I've been using it for like four years now, three years now. And like I lost like 40 pounds, kept it off since then. I just write my food every single day. But what's the reason it works so well is not because it's an app. It's because there's a person every single day who looks at what I eat.

This goes back to willpower to the word right. I don't rely on my willpower because I just I write down what I ate and then the next day I get feedback from them every single day, seven days a week, I get a real life person who tells me that they I did a good job or hey, maybe you should have had that cookie dough, you know, like, I think that's what they gave you. The idea for the water.

It's like little tips like that, right? It's who. So rather than how am I going to lose this weight? How am I going to keep this weight off? It was who's going to help me keep this weight up? Who's going to help me do this?

So this is one area of my life I play it well and involving whose is helpful. So like, for example, my mom was just in town and she wants to lose twenty five pounds. And I've been actually finally getting myself around, like doing a little bit. And one of my great friends, Richie Norton, he's lost forty pounds on Kitto this year. And so I did a three way text with Richie and my mom and I just said, Richie, you've crushed it with kiddo.

Like will you help me and my mom? Like, we've just integrated the WHO and then he just sends this text with like his biggest recommendations, all the things he's learned over the last three months, losing forty pounds. And he will help us now, like mom, like any time you want to call Richie, he'll help you if you've got a question about call Richie like rather than you finding having to dig in and do all the research, just go straight to the who already has the answers.

And the more you can bring in who's to to your goals, it just becomes more fun. Like now kiddo for me is a solo journey. It's with my mom, it's with Richie. And so I'm far more likely to do it. But also there's a really good book. Have you guys ever read the book Tribal Leadership by chance? It's all right if you haven't. I have not. So one of the things that in this kind of goes to Hoonah, how is a lot of people when it comes to relationships, especially if they're individual focused and competitive, focused, like they're they create what are called dyads.

So, for example, a diet is like me and you like I'm going to be in a relationship with me, you. Whereas people who are Connector's, they create Triad's. So it's like if I'm in or if I'm creating dyads, it's like I don't want to connect my mom with Richi because me and Ritchey, that's my relationship. Right. Whereas like more connectors are like, no, I want to connect Ritchey with my mom. Now we have a three way relationship triad and people who are have low self-esteem like they want to own a relationship.

And so, like, they don't want to share their relationships with other people. It's like, no, like I'm not going to share my but like people who are more confident and more relational, they connect people all the time. And I find that if you connect people with who's then you get a lot more connections. And that's one of the things I actually did love about Joe Polish and still do is like he is always connecting me with new people and he's just giving me constant news and he's not.

And then that's what creates interesting synergies. And so I think a really great way to build teamwork is just to constantly be bringing people together. I just brought my mom in with Ritchie and now all three of us are trying to accomplish the same goal. It's just building Triad's rather than being so exclusive in your relationships. Yeah, that's so good.

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The last couple of books I've written, I've what I literally will do is will open up a Google document like a Google sheet. So it's like the spreadsheet, right? And then I have on the left the far left column is all the dates like for the next hundred days or whatever, and the next column says Brandon and the next one has somebody else. The last time it was my friend Brian Murray who my partner and open to our capital.

But he's also we decide to write books together. He wrote a book and I wrote a book. We kind of co-wrote both them, but basically he led one. I love the other. And every single day we simply wrote down one number, how many words we wrote that day. And so every day it was time I thought I wasn't writing a book by myself. I was writing it with him. And before that I did the same thing with my previous book.

Yeah, you get other people involved. And it just again, I love how this does relate so closely with willpower doesn't work.

And the personality stuff, it's like it all kind of connects together because certain people are good at certain things. Certain people are not. And I'm terrible at willpower.

Yeah. I mean, I think it's just great to involve other people like Medda. Idea of from my perspective is is and this goes straight to personalism, permanent, whatever view you have of your own future, that's what determines your mindset and your behavior in the present. So if I if I see myself, my future self, as I'm making three hundred grand a year or whatever like that determines my identity and my behavior in the present. Well, if you can get other who's involved and if you can stretch out your view of the future, which is really the goal of this book now, because it's not me doing everything now, our company or whatnot, or now I can make five hundred grand a year because now I'm not doing all these fifty micro tasks, but those are being taken care of.

Now, I'm focused on this because your view of the future just got bigger. Now your present goes a lot better. And that's actually one of my favorite Dan Sultan quotes. He says, The only way to make your present better is by making your future bigger and all the science behind why that's true. But I just think the goal of who, not how, is to allow you to free yourself up so that your future can get bigger and so that you're not the only one doing everything.

And so I think that that's the goal. The book is to expand your view of what's possible, but also to give to to deeply enhance your sense of time. I talk about in the book, for example, some people just refuse to drive.

Dan Sullivan himself actually has not driven a car, really, except for like one or two times on vacation since nineteen ninety four. He just said, I can't I refuse to do that. How I he said I just don't want to drive when I'm driving. I want to be thinking or I want to be doing this or that. And in the book I talk about just like people who their time is very valuable to them. So they need to be in the back seat of an Uber doing business meetings and making five hundred five thousand dollars on a call while while paying someone thirty bucks to drive downtown versus them doing the driving.

And so it's just how can you get more people involved in your life so that you can do the higher impact things, even if that higher impact thing is simply just going home and being present with your kids without having to think about anything else.

You know what's fascinating about that? I so Ryan Murdock, there's a guy named Ryan Murdock. He lives actually in Hawaii here like he lives in my other unit. I have a multifamily property. He lives another unit. And people have heard about Ryan on the show a lot. He's been on the show a couple of times. But Ryan and I hang out a lot. And every time we go somewhere, I always have him drive. I've always had him drive.

And here's what's interesting about that is, one, because I get a lot of my text messaging, I get caught up on all my texts and all my stuff, like while he's driving. But here's what I wanted. I wanted to go with that is I feel like I mean, like real here, but I feel like less of a man because he's driving me around, because in my identity or my background, the man does the driving and you would and maybe the word man is doing the wrong thing here.

But there's a. They're like, you don't have somebody drive you around, that is your job, you're the you're the man of this family, this household. That's my job. So it's interesting how I even today, I have to overcome that.

That's the size of the problem right there for a lot of people is is that they feel and Dan actually breaks us up. He says there's a time and effort economy and there's a result economy. If you're just interested in results, you don't care how it's done. You can let other whose do it. But if you're in that time and effort economy, you reward yourself for how much effort and energy and time you put into it. And my my own father in law read the book, and he is the biggest house thinker in the world.

He's like, you probably wrote this book despite me then. But like I said, well, thankfully, you're really good. Who and a lot of people's lives. But like he gets a lot of his identity is based on the idea that I was the hard worker that did that, even if it was the wrong task to do, even if he knows if he had hired someone to do it or gotten someone else to do it, he would have actually 10x his result that I think it's culture that ingrained that idea, but it's also just rewarding yourself for the wrong thing.

And is that a component of a personality? Of course. Yeah.

But again, that thing can be changed. But yeah, whatever your thought patterns are, whatever your belief system is or whatever your way of doing things is your personality.

And that's what I guess I'm getting at because that's me. That's a thousand percent me. I have to every day. If I don't exhaust myself I go home mentally drained or every time I go to the gym if I don't leave it all there that I don't think I earned the right to say that was a good day. And then that keeps me from ever going to the gym because I has to be perfect or I, I make worse decisions in leadership roles because I had to work myself really hard.

And I guess I'm speaking this out as your current personality. Yes. What I'm realizing is in order to be a better leader to the people that have trusted me with their livelihoods, I have to be willing to change that. I have to let it go because it's expensive, but it's hurting me and a lot of people underneath me that I'm hanging onto it.

And no, I think that's so true. And I think here's what's beautiful about changing your personality is is if you do anything outside your current character, that's the way of doing things. If you, for example, went to the gym and didn't do things the way you currently do, then, you know, you went and you just enjoyed a fifteen minute workout and left. That would be that would be different from your former self. Right. Like that would be a different type of work at the NSA if you were to not need to exhaust yourself, et cetera, like that would be different than your normal way of doing things.

And it's really beautiful to take the time to reflect on how you're different from your former self. You know, I, for example, two or three years ago would not have been applying who not have very well. But I can look at my current self and relate my current attitudes, my current behavior, my current philosophy with my former self. And I can say I'm making progress and actually cause that the gap in the game that's actually the next book Dan and I are writing together is focusing on the gain rather than the gap, because it's easy to get in the gap as an entrepreneur.

It's easy to focus on like I'm not yet there versus take the time to look at actually how different you are from your former self two to three years ago and the progress you've made, the things you actually do differently than your former selves. And appreciate that. That gives you a sense of progress and confidence, which allows you to have hope, which is really important that you can keep changing. But I guarantee you, you do things pretty differently than you did even two or three years ago in various aspects of your life.

Then I would say, like my friendship with Brandon helps a lot when it comes to that, because he'll point out like, hey, look at what you used to do.

What are you, Larry David? That's funny. Not that David, that pyjamas, he laughs. It's really good to measure yourself against your former self. But what I was saying is it helps to have another person that can remind me of that, because I get caught up in the craziness. And I don't think about how David now is so different than David. David, you are a dramatically different person. When I met you three, four years ago, like, it's it's dramatic.

Like people should go back and listen to your first episode on our podcast when you were a guest. I mean, you're still you're funny and you're entertaining, but you were a different person when you were on that show than you are today. And it's it's fun to see. Well, it was it was rewarding that I got to this. My life is better right now. And this is what I guess I'm I'm so grateful, Ben, that we have you sharing this both for myself and for everyone who's listening, because a lot of the time, what I think our listeners go through is Brandon and I are dangling this carrot that's like you can have financial freedom, you can get out of that cubicle, you can spend time with your kids.

And we're getting them like, yes, yes, yes, I want it. And then we say, now go buy some property. And they go running and they slam into this brick wall of fear. But I don't know how, but I can't do this. I don't know what it's looks like their personality is working against him and what we're what we're really trying to accomplish with this podcast. You're doing an awesome job today is showing them how you tweak the parts of you.

They're stopping you from having what you want. Right. Like we all know what it's like to get an argument in a relationship to win the bet. The worst part of ourselves comes out and not the best. And it doesn't have to stay that way for forty years. You can learn how to figure out what in your personality was triggered by whatever happened. And bring a different side of you out and for the people that have walked through it, like like you bend, you can say it is so worth it.

That's kind of why you're trying to help highlight a path that people can take. Totally. Yeah. And there's a really good idea called self signaling in psychology. Basically, what it means is, is that when you act a certain way, you then see yourself as the kind of person that does that kind of thing. So, for example, if I hire a personal trainer, oh, I'm not Ben Hardy must be the kind of guy who hires a personal trainer, you know, and so you can apply a behavior and then your identity follows and then your personality eventually evolves.

And so for someone who has been a house anchor for a long time, if you were to actually apply this even a small degree, you know, actually hire someone to mow your lawn so that you don't have to do that now, you just apply to not how then you've just built that little bit of confidence so that you can then apply it in a bigger and bigger way. It's just like going to the gym for the first time. You know, it might be out of your out of your identity or out of your personality, but you go one, two, three, four or five times.

And now it's part of your identity to some degree, because you see yourself as the kind of person who does that. And so it just takes small wins. It just takes applying it to a small degree. But if you do that over and over in two or three years from now, you're going to be a different person than you were in the past because you're now going to be operating and doing things entirely differently than your former self did them.

This is so important. I want to I want to stress this for a minute. This idea that, you know, oftentimes we talk about the idea of there are there are hundred dollars, our tasks that you do. There are ten dollar an hour tasks to do and there's a thousand dollar an hour task we do. Right. And so, like, when you mow your lawn, it's a ten dollar an hour task. But if you are negotiating a real estate deal, that could be a ten thousand dollar an hour.

So we do more ten thousand dollars less ten dollars stuff. It makes sense. I think I think we we understand that concept. And if not, people should read.

That's a big, important concept to understand. Yes, it is very, very important.

But what I wanted to expand on that was the idea of sometimes I feel like I am hiring someone to drive me or to do my lawn landscaping and I am being quote unquote less of a man because I'm not changing my own oil. Right. And I get this kind of like feeling that I am therefore. And then I'm not replacing it here. I'm not replacing it with a ten thousand dollar an hour test. I'm literally surfing more or I'm like, which is really good for your time.

Which is your test. Yeah, I had a great recovery. If you're not, you know, there's a lot of research on this. And even Dan himself, when he coaches entrepreneurs, he calls it free days, but he he pushes everyone in strategic coach to take one hundred and fifty days off a year. And you put it out so that you can do that just because and there's an enormous amount of research on this. First off, recovery is really essential for high performance.

There's a whole field of it now called occupational health psychology. But one of the core concepts is called psychological detachment from work, that you literally not only leave the physical workspace, but you mentally completely turn it off. And in order to do that, first off, you've had to have been in flow, like, for example, on days when I don't work, like on days when I'm just sitting here and looking at YouTube, not working. I have a hard time psychologically detaching because I'm kind of feeling like an imposter.

I go home and it's hard for me to attach days where I'm in flow and I've knocked out like the one of three things and I feel awesome. I actually want to detach. I want to go be with my kids. I want to go hang out. But it turns out that actually being away is where all of your best creative ideas are going to happen. Only 16 percent of creative ideas happen when you're actually focused at work.

Most of them happen when you're in the shower, you're recovering, you're chilling, you're you're on vacation and, you know, and so, like, you need to emphasize and prioritize recovery in order to lock in and perform and not how just allows you to do more of that. So that actually being on the waves and surfing is probably essential for you to actually, like, be in flow for your next podcast or for that fifteen thousand dollar deal. It gives you the confidence.

It gives you the ability to do it at a higher level. So those two things actually go hand in hand. Yeah, I think that's phenomenal.

One thing, I've mentioned the show before, but I'll say it again now and I recommend it like I, I schedule a weekly every week somebody this lady, she's the she's the most from like the Four Seasons Hotel here on Maui. She comes to my house and she gives me a massage and then I get my wife one as well every single week because I find that that our our staff is is the the best time. I mean, like, like yesterday like I'm going to details yesterday I came up with a really, really good idea.

I was like, oh, this is so good. By sitting there the week before, I literally like outlined an entire book that I want to write now. Maybe I'll read it, maybe I won't. But it was like clearly like a ten thousand dollar maybe one hundred thousand dollar like day long term idea.

Yeah. Yep. For a for a getting a massage which felt awesome also. So sharpen this idea with Covington.

If you're not sharpening the song then you're just cut in with Adelaide. It's so, so true. So yeah.

Schedule those times in your life don't feel guilty about them but also and you brought you touched on this and is what I want to kind of bring this my my rant here to a close with it is like even if.

You're not doing a ten thousand dollar an hour task, you are becoming the kind of person who does like that mentality of who, not how. And that's what I thought was so powerful. What you said is like it's a muscle that you build up.

So just because you hire someone to change your oil and you save an hour of work and it costs you 30 bucks, doesn't mean you have to go then suddenly and earn one hundred dollars or it was worthless.

Like just because when you go to the gym one time you go home, you look in the mirror, you're like, wow, my muscles aren't any bigger. Doesn't mean it was a worthless trip. And that's what I think. Yeah, we find these little ways. So here's what I want to shift this. I want to get some tactical or tangible stuff for audience.

We're not talking about just I mean, obviously, this includes hiring a full time employee. You could hire a full time employee. But that's not necessarily what we're talking about here. Right. What are some other ways people can get who is in their life to give them more of that time freedom so they can then do the ten thousand dollar an hour tasks?

Yeah, I mean, definitely does need to be a full time employee. I think if you don't have a digital assistant or even just an assistant in general to start taking off a lot of the initial costs, you know, a lot of the initial behaviors you have to do, like you can hire someone 20 hours a week, ten to fifteen dollars an hour, a lot of enormously capable people to take off at least twenty hours of your tasks. That not only frees up your time, it frees up your decision fatigue so that then you can then even if it's just go and connect with the right mentors or go and get yourself in the right environments.

And so I do think as as Dan and I would say, sometimes it takes courage to make an initial investment yourself. It might take courage to take that initial investment, but you almost can't afford not to once you actually do it. It's one of those point of no returns where you realize now, like you can't go back to those types of tasks because now you're now required again as well. Different would say the ability of the average person could be doubled if the situation demanded it.

Like eventually you get to the point where you now demand it to be in those higher, higher tier environments to bring in. But I think you just got to try it. And so, like in this case, I would say hire a person, hire who to take on a lot of the tasks that you shouldn't do. And it could be 20, 20 hours a week. Hire digital assistant. I think almost everyone listening to this podcast, even if you're in real estate, etc.

, whatever you do, you should have an assistant to help you for ten to fifteen dollars an hour, to take off twenty hours a week of your tasks that you allow yourself to do and just free yourself of them. And what you will find immediately by doing that, is that your view of your future just got enormously bigger because now you can focus as 20 hours on anything else. You could read a book, you could go and meet people.

You could do more of that book. Right. More of that blog, do more podcasts, whatever it is you want to. You could go and learn more about real estate, whatever it is you want to do, free up your initial twenty hours by hiring a digital assistant like that's. I think that that's that's that's just a killer one. And I think I don't know why people don't do that. Like, I just think that that's that's a really big first step for anyone who sees themselves in any way as an entrepreneur.

Yeah. The decision fatigue thing, I find myself going a little crazy with managing my calendar, my schedule. So like I'm hiring. Yeah, I'm hiring a person right now. Like, I'm I mean, I've had like four or five assistants over the years, but I keep promoting them to other levels of my company. But now I'm hiring like somebody who do the same. So it's a great problem to have. It's a great problem.

But I'm now hiring somebody specifically not in the real estate space for a reason, because I keep hiring people like from bigger pockets from our community and then they're awesome and then they just end up running huge things. So I'm having somebody whose sole job has been for years been executive assistant, and that's what they want to do going forward. And because I want to stop making decisions on whether or not I do that podcast or don't do that podcast or whether or not I attend that meeting or don't attend that media, you've got to create that filter for you.

Somebody else does it for me. And I would never even comes to your mental awareness. Dave, you've you've trained them to make the decision for you. Yeah, that's going to be an amazing thing. Some that I highly recommend. Yeah, I I've had that that filter in place for a few years and very few things hit me. Is it hot? And again, you've got to avoid the fear in the scarcity mindset. Is it possible that because of that filter I missed one or two really amazing opportunities?

Yes, but the freedom I've had by not being aware of the four hundred other ones was worth missing.

Those one or two people should provide that last thirty seconds to listen again. And I think, Ben, because you understand this concept, it makes it much easier for you to become the right person to, you know, that how this works. You've had people that you trained to do this in your life. So when you come across a Dan Sullivan, you make it so easy for him to turn the reins over and say run with it. He doesn't think, oh, there's going to be a car crash.

I got to jump in there and I got to fix that. I have to run my own calendar. And I'm just. Out of curiosity, has anyone written a book about how to be that person? The mindset it takes to be good? Who? I don't know. Chapter seven does its absolute best.

It's called How to Be a Good Hoofer. You go, but it could be better. But I think that yeah, in my case I really try to be a good who if I'm going to do something. I really tried. My dad, I'm going to try to be a good dad, but, yeah, I think a lot of it's that I stay out of situations. I know I don't want to be the who, you know. But, you know, one of the big aspects of who not how do I even break it down?

The book, even me as the who got stuck it actually, I took it took a year longer to get the book deal than I want it to. It was made it was like August of twenty eighteen. When Dan had that conversation I heard about it and I'm like, Dan, can I do this? It wasn't until almost a year later that we finally got the book deal and now we have a book deal. But I got stuck. You know, I was actually finishing school, I was writing and permanent, but I got stuck.

And eventually I had to finally start applying. And I was like, give you the time to be the who that's I needed someone to go and negotiate the book deal because I couldn't do it my way. And so I got to who. But one other aspect of that, I the one of the reasons why I think I can be a good who in some cases and I'm not in others, is when I really want to be the who, I'm willing to go through the learning of it.

Like in this case, I had to get an enormous amount of coaching from Tucker Max, who edited the book and who helped to set all this up. I had a lot of my own subconscious blocks with this book and I actually write all about it in this book. But for a long time I could get myself to write it because I was trying to impress Dan or I was trying to do what he wanted and eventually Tucker coach me as I did, and then also coach me, said, Ben, you're the only person who's going to write this book.

It's up to you what this book is. This is not Dan Sullivan's book, although he's the author, you're the Who. So you have to actually write this. However you choose to write it, you get to decide what's in it. You get to write the chapters like it took me a minute to process that where I'm like, whatever this book it becomes, it's because I decided that was in there. And so in other words, I had to own the house.

I had to own that I was the who and that sometimes that takes a while to to actually realize they trust me and I need to trust myself to make these decisions. And I think that it's really beautiful when you allow your house to do that, when it's like you get to decide what they're going to look like rather than I'm going to tell you every time I'm going to tell you how to do this, you get to choose how this goes.

I trust you. You need to own it. You need to own whatever this is going to be. And it took me three or four months of being stuck. And then once I finally own that, it was really easy to write the book. And I just said, I'm going write the book I want to write. And they said, that's why you're the person who's here. You're the person who writes these kind of books. We want you to write the book you want to write.

Ben, stop trying to be someone else. Write the book that you would write.

That's why you're the who has so good man. So good.

All right, dude. Well, we got to get you out of here in a few minutes, so why don't we head over to the last segment of the show?

It's time for our famous for. Hey, let's take a quick break from this episode. We'll continue in just a moment. But first, let's hear word from our sponsors. Hey, everyone.

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This is the part of the show. We have the same four questions that every guest every week and we're gonna throw at you right now. The first one is a real estate specifically related questions. What kind of gloss over that one? We know that's what people say about real estate book is. But instead, the second question I'll let David ask.

He usually does. Yes, I do. Usually do. Ben, what is your favorite business book? Hmm. I think lately it has been this book.

Oh, yeah. This is a famous book. It's old school classic, but it's kind of the basis of like all of my other books that I love, basis of four hour work week basis of the frog basis of essentialism. This book is just killer. Been very good to me lately actually. I'll share one more peaks and valleys. I'm the guy who wrote the book who moved my cheese. I think it's Spencer Johnson. The book Peaks and Valleys, tiny little book.

I have it here somewhere is so good.

So the first one with any twenty principal by Richard Coshed eighty eight point principal.

The second one is this one right here. Check this out. Peaks and Valleys by Spencer Johnson. This book is small. It is so good. Just talks about how the bad things in your life happened because of what you do on your peaks, whereas the good things happen in your life because of what you do and learn from your valleys. You know, and we go we all go through valleys, could be covid, could be losing the job, could be losing a spouse, doing something.

We all go through valleys sometimes our own a car or sometimes situational. But what you do because of those values undermines your future peaks. Good. And what you do during your peaks can create unnecessary valleys.

Heather Thugged, I got to read that one now. I love to move my cheese. That's phenomenal. So same style. Same style.

Do you mind sharing briefly for the listeners that aren't familiar with the 80 20 principle, what it's referring to? Absolutely. So this is the guy who wrote like he's the one who kind of wrote the first book, kind of really breaking this down. And then, like so many offshoot books, came from this one book, such as The Four Hour Workweek, 80 20 principal kind of really connects with Dan's idea of being in the results economy versus the time and effort economy.

It's the idea of pretty much that 80 percent of results come from 20 percent of inputs know 80 percent of outputs come from 10 percent of inputs. And so 80 percent of whatever you're accomplishing in your life comes from 20 percent of what you do, which is why you should probably get a house to take care of the other 80 percent and just focus on the 20 where you get the biggest results. And so, yeah, I mean, it's just it's a book that forces you to think about results rather than the process.

So often where we overemphasize the types of processes and in this book and the principal teaches just says, what is a result you want and what are the one or two things that are going to get you that result? And why I like the book is because it forces me to focus on those ten thousand dollars an hour tasks. Those are the those are the 20 percent of things that I do that create 80 percent of my results. And so it forces me to say, is doing this task way outside the 80, 20, you know what I mean?

And I train my team to do the same. It's like, is this part of your 80, 20 or are you doing something you clearly should be doing? Or are you doing something that's honestly a waste of time? And it treats it allows me to let a lot of balls drop that are outside the sphere of things that actually create meaningful results. I'm fine dropping lots of things that are in the 80 percent of things that only creates. No, I'm fine missing all that because I got all that free time back to go hang out with my kids at school.

Have you read the sequel? But it's in the series, the 80 20 Sales and Marketing by Perry Marshall. He wrote as a follow up to that book. That's phenomenal now, is it?

Yes. Awesome. I bet that's there's a lot there's a lot that comes out of it. Yeah. He takes that I say my concept and applied it to like marketing. And Perry Marshall is like a like the godfather of digital marketing. And so, yeah, that's a good one too.

But anyway, as a now as a separate that, here's a quote that I heard just two days ago, and it's not 80, but it's 90. The quote is that 90 percent of results come from the first 10 percent of the process. Now, this is a little different, but how you set something up in a lot of ways determines if it's going to fail or succeed. And so that's why I really good. I think about that a lot.

Like if the first 10 percent of the process is junk, you're probably screwed. That's so that's the real estate. Yes. On my team, we call that creating adhesion the very first phone call with the client, if you like. There's going to be bumpy times during a transaction. There's no way around it. So if you create this adhesion where you're bonded and they trust you and they like you, they know that you have their back, you'll survive those bumpy times.

If the very first initial 10 percent is very dismissive or it doesn't matter to me, their God, they're going to you're going to separate when there's bumps in the road. So when creating systems that you've said so many good things, then we should just should have you on like five times each one.

Just quick thought on that, because if it's clearly started wrong, you have two choices. You have to eliminate it or you have to start over with a new system. As an example, this book, it started wrong the first 10 percent of this book, which is confusion that this is a permanent I'm sorry. And that's why I took a year and a half to write it because we didn't start correctly. But also I wasn't clear correctly on the vision.

And so it took me like a year just to research. Whereas this book, we already knew the idea from the very beginning who not how we knew the concept. We had to love the collaboration. We love the team. And so it started. Right. And the results spoke for themselves. But one of the reasons why I'm redoing this book, I'm not really redoing it, presented it, but I'm doing a different version, which is a much better version called Your Future Self.

Now, that one I already know is going to be an enormously more successful and better book because the first 10 percent was was a lot better. I was a lot clearer on the idea. I was a lot clearer with the publisher and how it was set up. And it was just the first 10 percent was right. And so therefore I knew it was going to be a much better process. That's common.

We're much better because that's the person who's like, I don't know what I'm looking for. I'll buy anything, I'll look at everything, I'll analyze them all versus the one that's like, nope, I want a duplex in this part of town. Yeah. This price range.

This is what makes it a good deal. I know what I want. Yeah. We call that the crystal clear criteria. Now in real estate, it's like it's a location you want to buy and what property type, what makes it profitable, what condition. And I miss someone in there but like. It's like once you get really clear on that, like that, 10 percent will make everything else you do easier, yet nobody like people don't do it.

They just like, wander around. So anyway, cool. Yeah.

Eighty two in this book, by the way. That's that's the impact filter that takes you through. He says the first 20 percent of the first 10 percent is just getting super clear on the one in why. If you can do that, it is so easy to find the WHO because you've clarified the vision so clearly what it is, what success looks like, what the outcome is. That is your job. If you can do that, finding the right who becomes very easy because they are their resonant with the result.

And so they're like, yes, I can do the how. If you don't do that part right, then you're always going to be blaming the Jews for doing it wrong when it was actually your fault for not clarifying the vision. I love that I actually wrote down earlier. I wanted to touch on it. We don't have to now because you just said it, which was you talk about being the use of the word outcome, like you have the outcome, our outcome driven results economy.

But yeah, you want to be very outcome focused and so you have that outcome.

So like real life examples, I had an open door capital. My real estate company was like we I wanted a thousand units I wanted, like, this is what we wanted. I knew what type we're going after. And then it was really easy to find people. So now I have I have five people that I hired, four people that actually pay and then a partner and lined up. And they're all it was so easy to find each one of them because I knew exactly what I wanted.

We knew the outcome and then we accomplished our goal in eighteen months. And so, like now we just crossed a thousand. That's why, because we had the right who like I mean I have literally worked less. That sounds terrible. And my investors don't laugh at this, but like I have worked less buying the thousand units we just bought in the last 18 months. Then I worked the previous 15 years buying the whatever 100 units I did before that on my own.

And it was a hundred times easier the second time around because I had the who like that made all the difference.

You also are a different person than you were a very different person now because my personality is not permanent. But but I think about you.

You apply who not how better your life is here on the vision. Like if the current U is put fifteen years into the past into some of your former situations, think of how different current situation, different going crazy.

Now, isn't that the dream we all have that we wish to go back to high school knowing what we know now and do it over, but oh my goodness, you got high school handled that situation very differently. Yeah, but that's what's cool about what you're saying is no, in fifteen years we're going to be someone different who's going to handle things different. So, yeah, you've been you've dropped some serious nuggets that whole just the idea of the results economy versus the time, effort, economy.

What I took from us, what rewards you, are you rewarded by a result? Are you rewarded by the fact that you told yourself? I worked really hard. I did really good. Will dictate how you set it up.

And that's when a lot of people are rewarded by how much time they punched on the go. Right. But but the more you're rewarded by tangible results, the less it's about how much time and energy put into it, the more it was about who, not how. Oh, man, this is good. Now I just want to go find a whole bunch of whose if someone's here in this scenario who call me Whoville, I'm hiring her to who.

All right, Ben, when you're not getting PhDs, writing books, networking with with really big people, doing the keto diet, all kinds of cool stuff, what are some of your other hobbies?

Yeah, I mean, I'm a big sports fan. I'm a big NBA fan and college football fan. I became a college football fan because I was at Clemson when they won a couple of national championships. But yeah, I mean, I have six kids and so a lot of it's just like watching my kids on their hover boards and playing football with my kids, watching them play tennis, cooking, just hanging out with my family. Very simple life.

We Minecraft now we we're pretty like anti video games at the moment. OK, nice play and plenty of stuff in there. Night at our house I'm sure. But yeah, we just we try to do sports, watch movies, cook food together, just hang out. My life is pretty simple. I mean I love going to the gym, I love reading, walking, sports analysis, stuff like that.

Cool. Well, my last question. What do you think separates I'm sure I can guess your answer on this, but what separates successful people, entrepreneurs, individuals, business owners from those who give up or they fail at what they're doing or they just never get started?

I mean, there's a million different answers to that question. But I think what I'll say is, are you defined by this is basically Carol Dweck fixed mindset versus growth mindset. But people with a growth mindset, they value their future self more than their current self, like someone with a fixed mindset, they value their current self. Be all and also, if you fail that test or if you miss that thing, your current self is the be all end all you you didn't do it, therefore you can't do it because your future self is no different than your current self.

But people with a growth mindset, they know their future self has different knowledge, skills, capabilities than their current self. And so it's OK if they failed, it's OK if they messed up because that's how they're going to learn in their future selves can be more capable. And so I just think valuing and appreciating the differences between your current and future self and also recognizing your future self is more valuable. As an example, a seed in my current self hand could be an ache.

It could be a massive oak tree in my future self, my future self's backyard compound interest. Right. A big bag of seeds in my current self that could be an orchard in my future selves backyard. Same is true of just investing five bucks here. It could be thousands of bucks to my future self. So I just think, you know, your relationship to your future self matters a lot. And most people, they think their future self is basically the same person their current self is, which sets them up to not go through those transformational learning experiences, though some Confucius level wisdom there.

I love it.

OK, for people to want to hear more of this, where can they find out more about you?

Benjamin Hardy Dotcom, you just go to Benjamin Harry dot com, sign up for your email and you can get access to my free 30 day future self course. 30 days of just intense contact emails created takes you through all the science. That's the easiest way. Obviously you can buy the book you have. But to get access to me and more directly my ideas, just go to Benjamin Harry dot com and get free access to the 30 day feature s course.

That's awesome, man. Well, thank you for joining us.

It's been phenomenal. David Greene, take us out. Thanks. Yeah, I can't even think that was so good. Ben, this might be the first time that I wasn't able to come up with a nickname for Brandon Turner because you just drive so much good that after you're stalling or not, you can come on.

I'm glad. I'm glad that it was worth your time.

Thanks for letting me hang out. Was a huge pleasure. All right. Well, this has been fantastic. I think I need to go meditate on what we just heard. Listen to this a couple more times. I encourage everybody else to do the same thing. I'm pretty sure if you listen to this more than once, you will pick up on new things that you missed the first time around. So this is David Green for Brandon constantly reminding me that I'm a better person today than I was six years ago when I was terrible.

Turner signing off. You're listening to a bigger pockets radio, simplifying real estate for investors, large and small. If you're here looking to learn about real estate investing without all the hype, you're in the right place. Be sure to join the millions of others who have benefited from bigger pockets. Dotcom, your home for real estate, investing online.