This is a bigger pockets podcasts show four hundred and six, so I saw the four and I called it and I was like, hey, just inquiring about this property. And I was wondering if you might want to sell instead of rent. And the guy was basically like, please, I don't want it. And I have another one that I want off my hands. So and of course, it takes a lot of calls before you find that one guy who's willing to sell, but they're out there.

You're listening to a bigger pocket's radio, simplifying real estate for investors, large and small. If you're here looking to learn about real estate investing without all the hype, you're in the right place. Stay tuned and be sure to join the millions of others who have benefited from bigger pockets. Dotcom, your home for real estate, investing online.

What's going on, everyone? It's Brenin Turner, host of the Bigger Pockets podcast here today with another phenomenal show with my co-host, Mr. David Greene. David, how are you doing there? Man, you you're breathing, OK? They're in California with all those fires.

Nope. Got the mask on. We're staying indoors. There's the whole state's on fire, so you can't really go outside. But that's OK because we've recorded an awesome episode of the podcast. And if you two are like me and you're getting cabin fever stuck in the house, this podcast will definitely lighten your mood and get you pumped up.

Yeah, so good. I mean, today we're talking with someone named Shelby Ausborn Shelby. I've seen her around the bigger pocket's community a lot. She was even in like one of the bigger pockets Wealth magazine recently.

And she just has a phenomenal level of energy and passion and just intelligence around real estate investing and how to really scale a business. I mean, going from like a military full time job to being able to quit that and then have like 51 units now. I mean, some of them she owns with partners, some she's just done from like she's done BRX, she's done house hacking, she's done everything. Just an amazing, cool story she's doing kind of go through the whole thing today and tell us a lot.

And her answer to what sets apart successful investors at the end of the interview was one of my favorite I've ever heard.

So you guys are going to love today's show, especially, by the way, make sure you also listen for her conversation on, like, delayed financing. That alone could change a lot of people's lives. If you plan to do BRX investing down the road to buy rehab, rent, refinance, repeat strategy, you'll love that. So stick to stay tuned for that.

But before we get to that, let's get to today's quick quick tip. Today's quick tip is if you've not checked out the brand new bigger pockets Insight's, which is amazing. We have this new thing called Property Insights on there where you can look at property, get a bunch of details on previous rents and what their current rent would be, what the market's been like. It's really like bigger pockets inside is designed to help you make the best choices on what market to invest in, what neighborhood to buy in and what property and what that property is going to likely do in the future.

It's a really, really cool it's part of our bigger pockets, pro membership. We just launched this whole inside thing. Do yourself a favor and just go check it out. Bigger pockets, dotcom slash insights again, bigger pockets, dot com slash insight's. I think you'll be pretty impressed. It's is going to help your business quite a bit.

So that is today's quick tip. And now let's get to today's show sponsors, OK, one of the things they hate about managing rental properties are the dozens of emails going back and forth between prospective tenants. Then once you finally do find a great tenant, the deal still not done. You still have to try to schedule a time for the tenant to come by and look at it or maybe pay for the extra digital signing site.

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We did a whole show about this topic. The Big Three roadblocks for new investors. Remember what it was. It was not enough time, not enough deals and not enough money.

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Notes have bigger pockets.

Com show three twenty eight. And now it's time to get into today's show, David, anything you want to add before we jump in?

Yeah, we talk a lot about how there's parallels between building a real estate portfolio, which is really a real estate business and how they'll be built. Her real estate agent team. And frankly, this applies to anybody. You may have a job where your mortgage broker or your contractor or you do something that has nothing to do with real estate, but you want to scale that into something bigger. Pay close attention to how it is pretty much the same principles, regardless of what you're doing, that lead to people being successful.

And when you reverse engineer that success into a bigger portfolio for yourself, it can also make you more money in your job. That's one of the things I love about our podcast. A really bigger pockets in general is on this podcast. We learned all about how to build wealth through owning real estate. But then you can go listen to Jane Carroll Scott and learn about how to build wealth through business. You can listen to Mindy and Scott Trenched talking about how to build wealth through managing your finances better.

There are so many ways to build wealth, and I feel like today's guest touches on how she's kind of combining a lot of the strategies together. Yeah, very true.

And one quick warning, though. Shelby is a militia. She was raised in the military and within the military as she got through her 20s. So there is some, as you typically find with military people, a little bit of explicit language, just a little bit. Just just you know, if you had young kids in the car listening, just be warned.

So, yeah, this show is phenomenal. But that said, let's get to it. Do it.

Shelby, welcome to the Bigger Pocket's podcast.

Awesome to have you here. Thanks. So stoked to be here. Cool. All right. Well, let's get to your story. How did you get into real estate investing?

OK, so once upon a time, back in twenty twelve, I graduated from college at University of South Carolina and commissioned as a lieutenant in the Army. And my first duty station was at Fort Lewis, Washington, near Seattle. Probably, yeah, probably more. That is. Yeah.

Traffic sucks by Fort Lewis. Every time you do it, it just slows down to nothing.

Yeah, it's terrible. Yeah. So I went out there and I had zero interest in real estate and I figured I'd just find like a sweet ass apartment downtown Tacoma and take out my friends. Like, literally no concern for the future really. And then my dad actually planted the seed relatively aggressively. He's an aggressive man and he was like, you should use this thing that you have called a VA loan and you should buy a house with zero percent down.

And why would you pay someone else's mortgage when you could pay your own? And I was like, oh, fine, Dad, I guess that sounds like a good idea. And it turned out to be a fantastic idea a couple of years later when I moved to Fort Bragg, North Carolina. This is four years now, so. Twenty sixteen. And that's the land of the eighty second Airborne Division, the largest military installation in the United States.

And it's also very intense when it comes to the military then anyway. So I went to airborne school, jumped out of airplanes, did some air assault stuff, and I showed up to Fort Bragg ready to roll. And I did roll for a year and it was badass. But with badass comes frustration's. So in the military, I don't know how much you know about it, but there is a lot of lack of efficiency. There's lots of shit that you do that doesn't make sense and disorganization and a lot of you know, because we've always done it this way as opposed to what makes sense.

And that's just not a fly with me. So I started to pick my head up and look towards the next five, 10, 15 years and saw exactly what the military would bring me and decided that that was not the course for me. And so it was right around this time that I decided that I was going to make a change, that I fell into a lot of things at once. So I read my first Robert Kazuki book. I started paying attention to my property back in Washington that I had kept.

As you know, I didn't run numbers or anything, but I bought it for one fifty eight and back in twenty thirteen and now it's worth about two sixty. And it was like I fell into this amazing thing and I was like, hey, like real estate. This is awesome. And the Robert Kiyosaki, the thing that really hit home was that cash flow quadrant. And I came into Peaty with my guys the next day like physical training in the mornings it's like 6:00 a.m. and they're hungover and half asleep still.

And I'm like drying on this dry erase board for employees, like we need to be investors. And so they all thought I was crazy, but it's fine. I decided real estate was my future and from there I started taking off. Sounds cool.

This is the first time I've ever heard Robert Kiyosaki cash flow quadrant being applied to military personnel, which is the whole goal of the military, is to keep you in that like employee by you do exactly what we say and only that that's really funny. Did it did you feel like any of the seeds you planted took root at all?

It did a little bit. So it's funny. So I decided to get out and that was around April of twenty seventeen. And by November I had bought my first intentional investment property and I got my license at night school and it's funny. So my first year was twenty eighteen. That's when I started on terminal leave. But by the end of twenty eighteen my soldiers were hitting me up and they're like, yo do you got any side hustles you can do.

I had them working it. Rental property is like doing handyman stuff. So like some of it, some of that stuck a little bit.

That's cool, that's cool what I want to know that first property real quick, I want to go into the because a lot of people get started with the accidental rental thing, which means they buy a property, they live in it, and then they decide to move out and keep it. Why did you decide to keep it? And then what kind of challenges you faced? Or was it all pretty, pretty easy at that point? What was that like transitioning there?

So I decided to keep it because again, my dad, I was like, hey, what do I do with this? And my dad had done a couple of rental car. He was not big into real estate, but he has a really good mind for money and investing. And he was like, you should just keep it and rent it out. So I did. And I have a fantastic property manager out there who does really great, you know, work.

And every time there's a turnover, she increases the rent. And I've actually never really had an issue because I bought it turnkey. I bought it nice because I think about twenty two year old Shelby was like, I want to live somewhere nice and now I like living like a shithole. But how times have changed. Yes, but yeah. So I bought a service on down and then my first intentional investment property in November of twenty seventeen was a twenty five percent down conventional loan and I got it was a duplex for seventy five thousand and now it rents for seven, twenty five and six seventy five each side.

So it's like almost a two percent deal.

I loved that one. And then in January of twenty eighteen when I got out of the army and started doing real estate full time, I was an agent as well as an investor and by the end of twenty eighteen I was the Keller Williams Rookie of the year for all of North and South Carolina and I'd acquire a total of sixteen doors. So that was year one. And then year two started my realty group, which we specialize in helping investors invest like we are agents who specialize in working with investors.

And then by the end of twenty nineteen I was up to forty one doors. Wow. All right. All right.

So yeah, I want to unpack all this stuff. So you you got out of the army, you decided I'm going to go and build up this business. I'm also going to be a real estate agent because you needed to have a source of money, right? So had to. Yeah, yeah. Lahm But, you know, we've somehow got to pay the bills.

So why why become a real estate agent? What was the idea behind that?

Did you just love real estate and you guys want to help all the people or more than OK, so I do like helping other people. But and it's funny because recently I've been reflecting on the fact that, like, I don't even love real estate that much. I just love the avenue of which like the opportunity it brings into the world. But yeah. So I decided to be an agent because it directly correlates to your work ethic and your ability to solve problems.

And your income is not tied to like promotion rates or amount of time in a position like I loved the fact that I got my license in my very first year. I made twice as much as an agent as I did as a captain in the Army the year before, purely off of me, just being able to figure shit out and make things happen. So I love that it fueled my active income, which I threw it all into my passive.

Yeah. So what do you think about when people ask, should I get my real estate license to invest in real estate? What's your answer? It depends. It really depends.

So if you are like me and you are going to make it a full time pass the wall type of thing, I think that it does make sense. If you are good with people and you can make people trust you, then you can be great at real estate as like having an eight, your license and being an agent. But if you are just doing it slower and you still have a full time job, I really don't think that you'll be able to get in the weeds with the MLS and make it worth it.

I think it's much better to find an agent who is writing those streets and hustling and they can. That's your source of leverage and outsourcing your time. So it really depends on your situation.

You have a shelbie. Being a real estate agent is nothing but putting a listing on the Internet. And that's it, right?

Like, oh, I get out, I quit. I don't have the same question to you, David, because I know you and I have had a million conversations about this. Should an investor get a real estate license to invest in real estate? No, and it's the same answer I will tell them, yeah, if they said if you said should an investor get their appraisal licence and learn how to do appraisal, should an investor become a general contractor and learn how to fix it, how should an investor become a property manager?

The best part of real estate is owning the real estate. And the best part of the business of real estate is how easily it can be leveraged. It is the fact that easier than most things you can leverage off big chunks of it. Like if I decided I wanted to create a brand of clothing and I wanted to make jeans, it's a lot of hard work to figure out who's going to design the jeans and where are they going to be manufactured, how are they going to be marketed?

Who's going to sell them? It is a lot of time that you have to spend to build up the support system that you would need to eventually make money from jeans. It's not like that with real estate. I just bought a house. Who's going to manage it for me?

There's a ton of people saying, me, me, me, let me do it. You're a lead to them, right? I want to find a house. How can I find someone to help me? There's a ton of Shelby that are like me. Maybe I want to help you find that house because their business is based on you. You become the in demand person when you're the investor. It's just kind of silly to me that people would say I will, even though it's so easy to go out there and find someone who's probably better than me at doing this part of it.

I want to learn how to do it myself. And I mean, let Shelby actually run with this, because I have a bunch of questions I want to ask you about. Yeah, well, first of all, I was going to say that you said that there's a ton of shelties and there is one one of it's just make that clear. But besides that, I totally agree. I totally agree.

I found that especially starting out, people are more concerned that they don't want to show that they don't know what they're talking about. So they don't want to ask the questions. And then they waste hours and days and weeks of their lives trying to figure out all these details where literally I am the first one to be like, I don't know, I'll find out. And then I make the phone call to the attorney, to the lender, to the appraiser, whoever it is, and finds the information like that.

So all of these people are specialists and you should use them as such.

So, yeah. Now, I want to ask you a question, not just for the investors, but there's a lot of agents that listen to the podcast. Shelby, I think you'd agree. Probably hire a lot of them.

I do. Right. Can you explain? Because one of the reasons I like I like just like you, I don't love real estate, but I built a team. I became a broker because there's so many parallels between owning property, bringing down deals, finding them, leveraging the work and owning a real estate team where you're finding down deals, getting people involved to leverage it, closing the deal. Can you explain maybe the synergy or the similarities between those two ways of building wealth and why, if you're good at one, you might be good at the other?

It makes so much sense. OK, so I think of it as you are able to be the conductor of the orchestra.

I really like this analogy because then you have each piece of the performance coming together and all you are is your directing and you're overseeing everyone come together and create this beautiful whatever. So if that makes sense, it's the same way as an investor as it is. If you're on a real estate company or even if you're a broker, you can use a lot of the same strategies as you find the right people for each piece and then just utilize them correctly, treat them right and oversee it all.

That's really good. Yeah. And I think because, Shelby, you sound like you just accepted. I should not be doing everything they scaled so much faster. I mean, look at you through a bunch of doors and you became the rookie of the year at the same time in your first year. That's not a coincidence. It's because the area that you excelled in, which was I know what I'm good at, let me find people around me to do the rest worked in both worlds.

And that's kind of the blueprint that I want to highlight for the investors. If you're getting in your own way, that might be why. What do you think, Brendan?

Well, I wanted us because I agree. I agree that skill will be able to hire other people and be the conductor is so powerful in every business. I mean, every business owner I ever talked to, whether it's real estate or otherwise, like that's always where the conversation goes to almost every time. It's like they're struggling and being the conductor, they're trying to do too much themselves. The question I want to fire actually each of you, but I'll start with you, Shelby, is how do you balance that with not being successful in the beginning?

Like, I don't have any money, I can't go and hire a team. If you're new, how do you become the conductor without first playing third saxophone in the back row or something like that?

So for me, there's like three steps. You've got to start with systems. Then you move to people and then you move to the community or like the vibes that you create. And so what I started with systems like I started by doing as much as I could myself. And and I don't mean this to backtrack what I just said about like using specialists, you use specialists, but I mean, for your specific role as an ambassador, for your specific role as an agent, what you do documented, documented, systemise it and automate it.

So, for instance, for me, like my rule of thumb is I will not do the same thing twice if I have to struggle through it. So I will struggle through it. And I will. Laeter. Write it all down, create a checklist, and then file it in the next time that comes up. I just pull it up and I'm like, Oh, that's how I do it. Or when a client asks one another investor ask, how do I do this?

I'm like, perfect. I already have this one page cheat sheet and I send it out. I do the same thing with all of every email that I've ever written. And this really helps my agents as well as I have a whole package of draft emails for buyers and sellers specific to how the flow of the process goes. And then there's a checklist for everything that we do. So systems first. And once you have that, you can take the right people, which we use disk and my brings a lot to identify natural characteristics of people.

And we pair them to those checklists essentially to who can execute those that way better than I could ever, though, if that makes sense, doesn't it.

Does it does. You start with systematizing everything. And so in beginning that could be if you're a real estate investor trying to buy your first duplex. Right. In the beginning. Yeah. You're going to have to be out there doing a lot of the the digging around for numbers. You're going to have to be look on the MLS, but start thinking like, what are you looking for? What does that criteria look like? How can you put that into a checklist so that it just becomes more and more clear?

And then and then you can tell other people to go find those for you. So what you're saying exactly.

And you always it's really hard to start with the end in mind when you're just starting out. But even if it's not the end, not everyone knows what their five year vision is. If you can start when you're creating the systems, knowing that someone else will be doing it down the road, that will help you a lot better being able to articulate, because it's not for you. It's for that other person to take that torch and run with it.

That makes that really good. David, what do you think? She's I agree 100 percent shelbie, with what you're saying. I think that most people, frankly, don't progress down the cash flow quadrant that you mentioned, not because they can't figure out a way to do it because they won't let go of either the fear of doing it on their own or the trusting of other people to do it, or that that the actual necessity that you have to lead people.

When you're doing that, there's a hesitancy a lot of people have to step in and lead others. Oh, there's a lot of personal things that we we could get into about why that happens.

But the common thread with everyone we interview who got a lot of doors or a lot of properties or scaled every time, was either they stumbled into it or they purposely built it a a system, an organization, a way of this person does this and this person does that. And there's you can wander around for 15 years and then finally figure it out and boom your scale or you can get it in the first six months or three months or whatever it is, and you're going to scale much faster.

But the the road's going to be the same if you're trying to do everything yourself. If you don't want to be disciplined and write down, I do this than I do this than I do this.

You're just going to tread water forever. Totally agree. Yeah, and then finding the right people, yeah, that's like a whole nother challenge in itself because I do see what a lot of people fear and it is hard to trust something that you've built and grown in the hands of someone else. But once you do are able to identify talent and can trust people, you really have to let them take the reins because nine times out of ten, they if they're the right person, they will be able to fill that position even better than you could have ever dreamt it to be.

So so let's get an example.

Let's start with rental property. What's a system that you built and how did you automate it? And then we'll talk about what people did you bring in.

OK, there's so many different ways I go. That's why I was like, I guess we could talk about how I did use to manage my own rental properties. And I built a system for that. And it's just a quick cheat sheet on exactly what to do from once you get the property, the photos, how to market them, the sign in the yard. And then also, I don't know if people do this in different markets, but we have multiple pages on Facebook, Facebook marketplace and like moving to Fort Bragg, moving to Fayetteville, like all these different places.

So systematically marketing on each one of those to get an influx of tenant applications and then using Kotsay to screen tenants. I'm a huge fan of Cozy. I used to use it for all of my properties before I switched over to a property management team for that. And so I guess just like I did that once and I struggled through it, I freakin read that yellow book. What's it called? It's that print. It wasn't yours. Yeah.

Yeah. The book on managing rental properties. Yeah.

I friggin read that book and I feel old. I mean I loved it. I pulled everything that I needed for each, like I pulled the meat out of it and made it a quick checklist for me. And then I just repeated it for each one of my, my properties.

So I guess that that's one example of how I've been building systems.

Yeah, I think that's perfect. I mean, I think the key with systems I like to think is like, can you put it in a checklist somehow if you can put in a checklist that like that a high schooler could follow, it's probably a pretty good system and still like the more things in life. And you'd be like, I think sometimes people go through life thinking or when they hear this, they think, yeah, but, you know, whatever I'm doing is more complicated than that.

But if you really stop and think about it, most things we do are not. We're just doing those checklists in our head and then we skip steps, we mess things up. But almost every I mean, you could go like you can go to extreme. Like dating could be a checklist. You could literally be like, did I greet them with a smile? Did I, you know, take them to a nice restaurant versus a crappy restaurant you like?

We do things. I'm not saying you have to have a check. Let that be really funny. Actually, I kind of like, yeah, you're pulling out your thing. You have nice eyeball. I mean, eyes.

I'm not scratching off on that one. Yeah. Oh man.

That's hilarious because I've noticed that there's a progression of how I built system. So it started with the checklist, just like you said, it moved into a spreadsheet which is now easier that I can say, OK, on this spreadsheet we're making sure we did the things that it moved into what I call an auto plan, which is like some form of CRM that reminds you do you guys. Right? And I was just thinking as Brandon was talking, that your phone would give you notification saying like something to compliment her on.

Here's three things that you could just ask about her siblings. Like you're getting all these little reminders and you're in you're like airport telling you what to do.

If I remember I was watching Aladdin the other day and the genie is like acting like a bee in Elian's ear. And it's a compliment or couple enter. You're punctual, punctual. It's like I watch a lot of Aladdin.

That's good. Yeah. So that's what checklists are. They're like a little bug in your ear telling you what to do next. Yes.

Because we just naturally forget the stuff.

So whether it's buying rental properties, whether it's going out like you're doing, driving, you know, driving around, looking for deals, whether you're doing direct mail marketing, whether you're talking with an agent, like all that stuff can be put into a somewhat of a checklist and systematized what actually gets done.

That's it. We're trying to do a system. Right, is making sure it actually gets done and gets done correctly.

And that's what I was going to what David was talking about with automation. That's the next thing. So it's like document first and then automate next and everything that you should not trust your brain for anything like reminders, calendars, scrims, all of those sort of things will save your life because your brain is not trustworthy.

If not at any time. I rely on my own brain to remember pretty much anything. It just fifty fifty shot it gets done.

Or that I could.

Oh, less than fifty fifty people don't realize how much of the anxiety that they experience in life is due to the fact that you're relying on your brain to be this thing that was never meant to do. It's terrible when it comes to remembering that. And then what we do is we beat ourselves up. We go, Oh, I can't believe I made that mistake. I should have remembered a better person would have remembered. I'm not meant for this.

Whereas the most genius people, the best ones are like, no, I'm an idiot. I would never expect myself to remember that. That's what my computer is for.

Yeah, that's all the time. When people say stuff and I'm like, I'm never can remember that. So my system is I text myself my email like I email myself because I know that if it gets on my email, I can flag it for follow up and I will not miss an email. But if I get an enquiry from Instagram or Facebook or all of these different systems like I have to screen. Emails myself, because that is my one source that I will not lose.

So, yeah, that's great. Yeah. All right. So you got you got the systems and you got a lot of them. And then. Yeah, lastly, you said people.

Let's talk about that for a minute. Yeah. So when it comes time to bring in people into your team, whether it's like you're trying to find that real estate agent. So it's just like a door contractor or maybe it's an employee, an assistant, whatever. What have you found has worked really well for you in finding good people to work with.

So finding the right people, a lot of it has to become from word of mouth, like for my experience, people who know me, like me and trust me, I already know other people who I would feel similarly about. So those tend to be really strong referrals for people to join or build the team. But then once I have those people, we go through a checklist series, a checklist of they need to do the desk in the Myers Briggs assessments.

And I know, David, you're familiar with this. Do you guys know Myers Briggs?

I haven't worked with Myers because I know we use the desk more commonly. But why don't you share with the guys what the what the Myers Briggs does and why it's important for building a team so similar.

So the desk and the Myers folks are both very, very helpful tools and do different things. So Myers Briggs in particular is the one where it's going to say introverted versus extroverted. That's how how you recharge. It's not even whether or not you like to be around people. It's how you recharge from being around people. And generally we want our agents and even admin tend to be extroverted. You want them to be around people and be good with their clients.

And then the next one is intuitive and sensing. So that is whether or not you are a visionary versus you can see like you work with what you have in front of you.

So generally people who are visionaries like Immonen, they take what they see and then they create more from it. Does that make sense? It's all of these things are just good factors to know when you're dealing with, like employees or with clients. And then the next one is a feeler versus a thinker.

So how you like are you emotion driven or are you logic driven? And then the last one is the most important one in regards to admin, at least for me, and that is perceiver versus judger. And so the PS, the days happen to them, they're really go with the flow and then the JS, they attack their day and they're going to have a schedule and they're going to have a checklist and do all the things. So those are just really important to me.

In particular, the Jays are what I look for generally for admin, the ones who attack. Does that help? I don't even know. Is this cool?

This is awesome because I know a lot of people a lot. It was hiring in my own for years was like literally like, you have a pulse, you'll do.

And so what I'm sensing from you and I know this is true of David as well, and it's like this intentionality behind hiring the hiring is not meant to be like, oh, you'll do OK. You're my brother's friend's sister. Like, you're you'll be fine. You're in my space. So that'll work. OK, so much more tiring. Yeah, exactly.

And you're not going to be able to know all those things just from like a five minute coffee conversation with someone and looking at two assessment results. So we always do is like if it seems like a good fit, we bring them on and we do a 30, 60, 90 day process. And I recommend this to anyone who's trying to build their business. But they're there for the first thirty days. At the end of that thirty day, you sit down with them and you say, here are the things that you did really well here, the things that you can improve on here is the way ahead for the next 30 days.

And then you do that again at the 60 day mark and again at the 90 day mark. So that where there's always this open line of communication, no one feels like they don't know what's going on in the process or whether, oh, are they liking what I'm doing if I'm not? And then it's very clear cut at the end of the 90 days, you're either a good fit or you're not. And there's no hard feelings. Yeah, that's really good.

I love to say you never know how somebody is going to be until you work with them like I love like that that you just never know.

And so we do a lot of internship programs with open to our capital. We I mean, I have three interns right now and like we we want to work. In fact, like most of my team, maybe even all of my current team came from working together first in a limited way and then bringing them up once they did figure. I'll give you a quick example. So Mike Williams is my head of investor relations. So he's in charge of all the raising money aspect, everything like that.

And Mike, actually, ironically, Mike, I met him through an interview for bigger pockets. He was applying for a job, a bigger pockets years ago, and he ended up not getting the job. I kept in touch with them. And then we launched this like ten person internship like two years ago. And Mike clearly stood out as like the leader of that group. He was giving people together, going through ideas like how to how to find deals.

And and he was just like a leader of that. So we ended up bringing him in more heavily and then more heavily.

And today he's you know, he moved out to Maui. Now, I in his family, we just do life together. And he helped organize. Yeah, right.

So he over the course of now, if he would have just wouldn't work for bigger pockets, he would have been in Denver and I wouldn't be hanging out with him here in Maui. So it's much better now.

But I love finding ways you can do that. And you can't always just go grab a huge intern team like that. I recognize that I'm kind of lucky in that regard and that a lot of people want to do it. But you can find limited ways to work with people I.

One more example real quick and is that is one I had a video guy, and I hope he's not watching us right now. I had a video guy, local Amawi here who wanted to he really wanted to work with me more heavily on video stuff.

And so, like, I had him film a couple of videos for me, and then he he took the video files back to his house. And for a month and a half or six weeks, he didn't upload the video files to Google Drive were then Zakar had a video of bigger pockets would take them and go edit them.

He just never upload. It was like a five minute job for him to go and just upload. Right. He never did it. And so then a few months after that, he's asking me. So I haven't heard from you about that job. Am I going to be able to work with you full time next year?

And I'm like, no, like yeah, like that. That was the interview. And that's what people don't realize. Like, that was the interview, right.

Exactly. So anyway, let me jump in. I want to comment on why they work so well. OK, if you think about what your experience was like going to school as a little kid, you were following a system that someone else made. You sit in this desk from this time to this time, when the bell sounds, you get up, you go. Do you hear you're allowed to do these things, but not those things. There's rules you have to follow.

When the bell sounds, you come back, your brain responds, the environment that you put it in. Shelbie, you can attest to this being in the military. Right. That's the first part of what you're doing is throwing out everything that you thought you knew. And this is the systems that we use here, which is one of the reasons that people like Jakiel Willink loved it, by the way, is he's like, I don't have to think.

I just have to follow exactly what you told me to do. And it's easier. So what I'm getting at is people respond well to systems. Most people that you're going to work with as an investor have a W2 mindset that was developed from every job we ever had, which was working in someone else's system. And if you think about every job that you worked your first job, Hot Dog on a Stick McDonald's, you were following a system that some corporation made and you play the very last piece of it.

Someone else drove customers in the door. They found leads, they created marketing. They developed a way to create the hamburger. Your job is to stand at the computer and do that last one percent of the transaction and collect their money. And so we start to think that that's all that work is. Just do this last part. We don't realize that someone else has done an insane amount of work to build this whole system that we can operate in.

OK, so as an investor, I see you're loving this because you recognize it. When I would struggle with an agent who couldn't do what I wanted them to do. Right. This was a common problem. I don't want this property. I want that property. Why do they keep sending me this? Their brain is probably trying to figure out how do I fit into this person's system, but it's different than everybody else's. And so they don't know how they're supposed to ring the cash register at your your store.

I would literally make this spreadsheet and give them a link to it in Google Drive and say, here are the fourteen things that I am doing. Work this and then boom, it made sense to them. Oh, OK, he wants this and then after that and then after that, I literally handed them the playbook for how to be successful with me and what do you know, deal started to come in and then I could go to the property manager and say, here's my checklist for how I get a property ready.

Now, the cool thing was they ended up taking that, incorporating it into their business and they would copy that with everyone else. And several times they actually became so successful from that that they wouldn't work with me anymore because they had too many clients haven't figured out that part. But the point is, the system makes it easier to be successful. And that's what we're talking about this right now. For the people that are floundering, it's probably that you're so unorganized, you don't know what your target is.

If you don't know what your target is, you don't know what direction to move in. You can't get going. Shelby, can you explain how you built the number of doors you did so quickly and maybe what systems and automation that you put into place to get you there? Gosh.

So a lot of these systems were just built along the way and a lot of our doors. I mean, so some of them are a hundred percent me and some of them I've done with some of my partners that I have here. And it's pretty cool actually in my in my realty group. We do a lot of deals together. So like I've done a couple flips with my admin, I do a lot of deals with my agents that I have.

So it just turns into fun in the fun compounds. And so that's how it's really happened so quickly. But I've done a lot of different strategies to get the number of doors that I have. So that very first one was the VA. Then I did twenty five percent down conventional and then I bought another VA house with it was a complex. I got four more there. And then after that, as you guys know. Well I'm sure that when you stop your W-2 job, they won't, you won't get any more than your personal name.

So I went through that whole struggle and a lot of this comes from finding a way to win, like people told me no all the time. And I'm sure people tell you guys know all the time, too. But no, it's not good enough. It's just finding a way to make it happen. So, no, you can't get a loan. OK, well, how am I going to make this happen anyway? So I have used a lot of private money.

I've done hard money, I used lines of credit, lines of credit were a beautiful aspect of me being able to acquire deals until covid has really tightened that up a little bit.

So and the strategy I'm really big on, once I had that private money or that line of credit, being able to recycle it by using the strategy books, that's pretty self-explanatory for being able to recycle the funds.

And lately I've just been doing a ton of. And BS is what I've been calling it, so it's the strategy, but instead of a long term rental, it's the the Airbnb. Now, how did you find most of these properties?

All different ways. So some of them were on the MLS and it wasn't until recently. It's become incredibly saturated on the MLS. And I think it's due to outsole talking about financing myself and my team being pretty loud about how great fanfare is. And it still is great. But the MLS has dried up and a lot of ways. So a couple of these have been for sale by owner. And here there is the six unit apartment complex that I got was a for rent sign in the yard.

And I drove by and I called it and asked if I could buy. And I ended up getting that one as well as a duplex because he just didn't want to be a landlord anymore. And then courthouse foreclosures are really, really big for us right now. Can we pause that real quick?

So, so good. Talk a lot. Sorry. No, this is great. This is right.

Can you resay because I want everyone to listen to what you just said here about the for rent sign in the yard. Notice that she didn't say the for sale sign in the yard. Explain that again.

Yeah. So for rent signs are my favorite thing to see, especially the crappy handwritten ones, because I'm like, you know, you're not a formal landlord.

You probably hate this. So I thought of her rent and I called it and I was like, hey, just inquiring about this property. And I was wondering if you might want to sell instead of rent. And the guy was basically like, please, I don't want to. And I have another one that I want off my hands. So and of course, it takes a lot of calls before you find that one guy who's willing to sell, but they're out there.

Yeah, I love that strategy because it's it goes to this analogy I've used before, but I'll say it again now. It's like sometimes when you wake up with a headache, you don't think about taking medicine right away. And so you just have this headache that's kind of like dull and brewing for a while. And it gets worse and worse throughout your day. And you just never think of taking medicine because it just it started so gradually and then your wife walks in the room or her husband or whatever and just said, hey, did you take the medicine?

And you're like, I haven't even thought about that.

Right. The same thing is true for rental creeps on these landlords over time, and they hate it more and more and more because they're not going to systems. They're not going that process. They don't have people. They write handwritten signs in the yard and and they probably inherited the property from something or whatever. Right.

So they've got a headache and they don't even think about the fact that they could sell it or wait until somebody says, hey, I know you had this property for rent, but I want to sell. And if not, that property, they might have other properties. I mean, every land got a property. I would say almost every landlord has a property in their portfolio that they would consider selling, whether or not the one you called about or not.

So, you know, all of a sudden your options are millions of options out there of potential properties. And you can go Craigslist. You can look on Facebook marketplace for for rent. It's just such a cool strategy. But it requires work. It requires a system like to regularly every week you're calling 10, 15, 20 of these people. And over the course of months, you might be able to pick up quite a few of them.

It also requires you to be looking actively instead of passively. And I know a lot of investors now are obsessed with a tech option that will they think that there's some program they can design that will scrub the world and bring them on a silver platter. An amazing deal with a motivated seller who will do one hundred percent seller financing at zero percent interest. And all of their time is spent developing something to avoid what Brandon just described. But if you work backwards from why people give up deals they don't want, how you get good deals, it's you found a person who didn't want to own a property.

You didn't find a database of properties. That could all be amazing deals, because if you do find that Blackstone is going to come in and buy it before you ever touch them. Right. You have to accept you're going to be boots on the ground doing some of this work that Shelby's talking about. The brand is talking about to get that deal. And that's maybe the first step. OK, I'm going to have to talk to human beings. I'm going to have to find the human beings that I should talk to and target those properties.

And it's I found that as long as you go in the conversation with the goal of solving their problem, the reception will be so much better. If it's like, hey, what problems are you facing? Is there any way I can help you solve them as opposed to I'm this hungry investor who wants to create a dynasty like it's a different conversation?

Yeah, I have a question related to deal finding and you being a real estate agent, but also an investor. I get this question a lot. When I talk about in new investors, I tell them you should go check out, for example, if you go to bigger pockets, go that up to the navigation bar across the top. There's like network you have over that. And it has real estate agents. So you can find agents on bigger pockets.

Right. Like what better way to find an investment savvy agent than somebody who hangs out on a real estate investment website. Right.

But then I always show people this on the webinars, and then I always get the question, why would I want to work with an investment savvy agent, though? Wouldn't they just take all of my deals? What they did steal all my deals. Yeah, scarcity mindset.

Oh, my God. OK, explain what you mean.

What do you mean by that and why is that not probably an issue? It's so I completely disagree with that. I can see the point. A million bucks. I can see the point.

But there's so many pros that go along with working with an investor savvy agent, understanding the language, understanding how to run numbers, being able to ask. The right questions to a potential seller off market deal wholesale are all that stuff to present you with an opportunity that is completely different than trying to talk to a normal agent like it's a completely different conversation. But more to the point, which I believe is the scarcity mindset type of thing, it's like they're going to take all the good deals.

Yeah, OK. First of all, I can't buy all the good deals. Neither can any of my members of my team. We can't take everything even if we could. But also if there was ever a direct competition about a client who wanted a deal. And I also wanted it 100 percent of the time that deals going to the client, because I know that deals come, you know what I mean? Like, there's a million deals. There's tons and tons of opportunity.

And even though, like for our market in particular, deals are scarce on the MLS, it's finding a way to win. And what we've done is we have capitalized on off market properties. We have we have a real estate investors meetup where we promote wholesale deals. We try to get wholesalers to come in and essentially give their properties to us. And we've created an off market MLS tracker for our clients where we hang all of our wholesale deals as well as our house foreclosure properties.

Because in this county, in North Carolina, the courthouse foreclosures are not listed on the MLS. And it's an archaic, terrible system that if you are not ready to put in a shit ton of legwork, you're never going to find that deal. So we have again built this system to capitalize on off market to give our clients more options within this market.

Yeah, that is so good.

Hey, let's take a quick break from this episode. We'll continue in just a moment.

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All right.

So you mentioned you have a meetup like explain like what is that like? And you walk people through that, like, what are what what's yours like? And then for people who are attending, like people who are listening to the show right now saying, I want to either start a meet up or attended meetup, like what should they expect and what's worked well for you.

I have a checklist I can send you if you want to start your own personal so are called Pyenson Properties because it started rotating breweries and you drink a pint and you talk about real estate. And it all came from the fact of when I was first getting started, I felt like there was a gap in our community for a place for like minded people to get together and talk about lessons learned and stuff like that. So Pyenson Properties was born. And what we do, it's once a month on the second Saturday of every month at three thirty and fearful.

If anyone wants to come, we start with an educational portion. So we'll generally have the guest speaker come in and talk for no more than thirty, forty five max minutes on very quick information that everyone wants to know. And then after that, it's just complete networking and people usually stay out for far longer than I'd expect because whenever there's virion real estate involved, people just get really excited and it's turned into a really good community that draws in wholesale deals, that draws in the right vendors, that draws in community like it's.

Yeah. And then yeah, I think that's great. It's it's I think people get a little bit intimidated by the idea of a real estate meetup because they think it's going to be some super weird formal thing.

Everyone's handing out business cards and and almost every all the good ones I've ever been to have usually been at a brewery or at a something that's a little more casual somehow at colleges. I know, David, you rent out a space, don't you?

Like what do you do years that David now like you're there like in a club right now, we don't have anywhere to shut down. But yeah, I rotate all over the place because it's hard. We either outgrow this space or they want to start charging people. So then we have to charge the people who come. And I try to always look for free spots to avoid that. We found a comedy club in the Sacramento area that we were able to start doing those at.

But if you've got two things, you tell jokes, do you tell jokes on stage? Yeah, like knock knock jokes. I just flew in from New York. Boy, my arms tired. Yeah, that's a really good one.

Yeah. Yeah. I'll be here all night folks. Oh yeah.

OK, so again they're, they don't have to be stuffy, formal things.

You don't have to show up in a suit usually like I mean there might be some people out there that do that, but yeah they're relaxed and they're fun and they're, and they're such a vibe of like let's help people to like, let's do this together. And that's something that I think a lot people don't expect when they get into real estate. Investing is not what you see on TV of, like, cut throat. I'm going to beat you and we're going to take you know, I'm going to take all the deals and bankrupt you.

Like, it's such a cooperative environment, the real estate investing space, because most people don't have that scarcity mindset. There's always the one oddball who is, like, super weird.

But like, most people are like, yeah, there's lots of deals. Let me help you. I'll I'll tell you exactly how I did my last deal. I'll show you how I just found that deal.

I show you who my lender is. Like, people are usually pretty, pretty open because they know it's going to come back to them in the end. Totally, totally agree.

I found that absolutely. In my experience as well as the people I surround myself in myself, we give away everything we have essentially, because by all means go forth and do great things. And even with direct competition, like other agents and stuff like I give away all of our tools, all of our checklists, just because I want you can go be great to like it's, you know.

Yeah, that's awesome. If we can could we toss in the a link to that checklist and how to start a meetup.

I could meet up and just put in the show. We'll put on the show.

Not that bigger pockets I can say show four zero six again bigger pockets that comes I show four zero six. I'll put the put the link there to that checklist which would be awesome.

Soga So where you headed, where you headed in the future. What do you see your business looking like. I mean you got fit, what would you say. Fifty units now.

Fifty one, fifty, fifty one dollars. All right. So where do you see yourself headed? OK, actually, physically to Charlotte. Yeah, so we're in Fayetteville right now and I myself and one of my partners, Michael Class-Based. Fantastic. We're moving to Charlotte. We're going to start another pillar's out there. So we're doing that. We're also doing consulting to help agents on how to work with investors because we found that they need help and more deals for sure.

But I've decided people ask me this all the time because they're like, why aren't you into apartments? Why are you worried? And you saw deals like getting into bigger deals. And so what I've been doing a lot is I've been reflecting about on what makes me happy and the idea that doesn't make me happy. What I like to do is I like to be really creative with projects. So I'm really enjoying slips lately and I'm really enjoying erbium. And I want to start at like a quirky Airbnb business where each Airbnb is like a complete experience as opposed to just, you know, a cute property that's so good.

Have you have you read the book, The Power of Moments? I haven't. It's so good. Yeah, that's your list.

I'd recommend that to everybody. Listen, I need to actually get those two guys, Chip and Dan Heath. They're like brothers and they're really smart. Maybe they wrote a book called The Power Moments and it's so good.

It's all about like what people remember is those special one, you know, one percent of their day moments, like whether it's on vacation, whether it's at Disneyland or whatever, they don't remember the mundane and the boring people remember the magical moments of life.

And so it's all about how to incorporate more of those magical moments in life. And so, like quirky Airbnb is a good example that people will remember.

Like there was like there was a bright pink telephone, like it was crazy, you know, like something stupid like that. But people love, like, the quirky things. And that makes them happy long term for sure.

Yeah. They really agreed to go all that and then world domination also. All right. Just just a little bit of world domination. I like it.

Military experts will come in handy for that. You might need to use some of that.

All right. So next, I want to move into the next segment of the show, which we lovingly refer to our as our deep, deep, deep dive.

Hey, it's Brandon and wanted to take a quick break from this podcast to invite you to this week's Bigger Pockets webinar, which is like an online class. And this week is going to be something that's really, really popular around bigger pockets. How to buy small multi-family properties could look small multifamily properties changed my life and they can be one of the best real estate investment vehicles out there, especially those who are fairly new to real estate. There's so many benefits to buying small multifamily properties, which is why this week I'm going to be dedicating like 90 minutes of just direct training on how to get started with this.

You're going to learn how to find them, how to analyze them, how to finance them, as well as some of the dangers. There's like four specific dangers I call out that you should know before you even make an offer. So don't miss this. Just go to bigger pockets that sites multi webinar again, Ammu LTI. So bigger pockets, dot com, such multi webinar and I will see you there.

This is part of the show where we dive deep into one deal that you've done recently. Do you have a property in mind that we can kind of dig into and ask a bunch of details?

I do, yes. I have one that it's like in the middle of. So it's the freshest of the mind, but. Yeah. All right, let's do it.

Number one. Yeah. I'll start with what kind of property is this and where is it located?

It's located in Fayetteville, North Carolina, and it is a single family and it's A Burr and B, OK, but no single family in Fayetteville. Can you restate what a burden B is again?

Yeah. So that is a burr, which I think everyone knows what birds are. I know you can explain anyway. Go ahead. Go ahead.

When you buy your rehab, you rent, you refinance and you repeats. But generally traditional buyers have been with long term tenants for the rental aspect and this is with a short term. So the Bernabe play is just like an Airbnb mixed with a birds like they have like a little baby, not of secretly pinching himself that he did not think of that.

He always comes up with the clever name names. Good job, Shelby.

Yeah, I take that like it's the bird remix. OK, for this particular deal.

How'd you find it. This one is a courthouse auction. Foreclosure, foreclosure.

So it was off the MLS and it was one of those deals that my team pulls from from the courthouse, which, by the way, quick plug here.

Bigger Pockets recently launched a book called Bidding to Buy a Step-By-Step Guide to Investing in Real Estate Foreclosures by our good Friends. Aaron Mooches Thuggy and David Osborne. No relation to you, though, correct?

Because you have different last names. Spelling. I love him. Yeah. David Osborne, he's he's pretty awesome. Arendse Not too bad either. All right.

Good dudes. Next question. How much was the property?

OK, purchase price was fifty two thousand and the repairs for fourteen and we put eight aside for furnishing and set up.

OK, so all in we were at seventy six for seventy six, seventy six thousand five hundred essentially. And how did you negotiate that price. There is no negotiating with the courthouse there.

It is what it is man. So how it works with our courthouse at least is you have to put in a bid and then there's a ten day period where the next bid has to be at least five percent greater than the following bid. And so you just have to cross your fingers and hope that no one outbids you in that ten day period.

That's a weird way of doing it. I mean, it's just different than what I've heard before. Usually it's like, you know, now everybody, we're selling it this morning, but that one drags on like an annoying eBay.

Yeah. If they're on the MLS, it's like that. It's like, yo, get your offers and then there's the highest and best period. But the courthouse is not linked to the MLS and they're literally in our system.

It's pretty interesting. And actually, one reason I like the idea of foreclosures and I've had some big success with foreclosures as well is because it's archaic, it's annoying, it's complicated. It's kind of difficult to figure out. It changes in every county across the country. That's a little unique things.

So in other words, it is hard and I love hard things like, yeah, because hard things mean that everyone else is going to go run away and go watch TV instead of figuring out how to do it.

So the more you can run toward hard things in life, the more successful you'll be at almost everything.

All right. But number five, how did you fund that? Seventy six thousand dollars. Yeah.

So this is one that me and one of my agents are doing together as a fun project. And we each have lines of credit, so we each used our lines of credit, which are just eight percent interest only to split this fifty fifty for the seventy six thousand five hundred. All in the lines of credit.

When you said are these like home equity lines of credit in your house or these like private bank or from banks or private lenders. How what's this eight percent. Right.

So before covid there's First Citizens Bank is here in North Carolina and I think it's a couple other states as well. And literally one day I just was on a mission and I was like, hey, I'm going to find some lines of credit once you a couple of banks and went in first citizens and was like, hey, I like a line of credit, how do I do that?

And I walked out with seventy six thousand dollars in lines of credit from a person. One's a business. And then I told all my clients about it and it was great for a while. And then it happened and they shut it down.

Open. Yeah, a lot of lines.

I kind of got shut down. I actually set a goal for myself by the end of the year. Like my company, we all set like these mini goals come rocks from the book traction.

But one of my rocks. Yeah. I love the book. I Go to my rocks is to establish a several hundred thousand dollars in lines of credit by the end of the year. I just like I have, I've looked and paid off properties and I've got good credit and I've got a good thing. I'm like, why don't I have just a bunch of lines of credit? I should have that, or at least like a line of credit that's nice and large and in charge.

So I do. I'm working towards that. If anybody knows of any good lines of credit companies right now, go ahead and put them in the show. Now, it's a bigger pockets dotcom show for 06. Help everybody out.

And if anybody knows any good banks that are lending right now on lines of credit, what kind of benefit everybody? All right.

That's very cool. What did you do with it or what are you doing with it? You said it's the Burr and B and B.

Yeah. So it is currently in the rehab process. It's almost done. R Airbnb designer has already started her piece of the puzzle, which, by the way, I don't like. So when tasks come in is. Is back to leveraging again when tests come in. I don't think when am I going to do it? I think who is going to do it? So when I first started getting into really an area because I was like, it's fun to think up the ideas, but I freaking hate ordering three sheets, three double counting knives, like I'm not going to do it.

So I had one of our our real estate stagers who was fantastic. I just called her and I was like, hey, you ready to take it up a notch? And so now she's created a whole business on taking the rehab's property and getting it fully furnished and ready for the property manager to take over. So that's so good.

Yeah. So anyway, she's doing her piece right now, the rehabs almost done. And then we've actually already started the application for the finance because it's not a refinance for this one. Actually, it's a delayed finance because we bought it cash and then we the Airbnb is one hundred and ten. So we plan to pull out everything that we put in. Can you explain delayed finance real quick?

I know we covered that back with Alex Phileas. I think it was like show three or the three hour one. But can you kind of what is delayed financing? Because that's a really cool strategy that I've never personally used, but I really should be using it more often.

So we use it a lot and our clients use it all the time. And it is essentially it's truly when your financing is delayed. So you buy a property crash and you make sure that your entire rehab, all of your cost associated with the purchase are on the closing disclosure or the HUD. So all of the costs for the project are right there at your first closing and then you do the rehab. And as soon as the rehab is done, there's no seasoning, period.

That's the difference. There's no seasoning, period.

You can start the the finance process immediately and they will give you seventy five percent of the Arab or the max that you put in on that closing disclosure, whichever is less, which is why you want to put the rehab costs on the HUD, want to throw everything on that, on that HUD at closing or else you're going to miss out on pulling that money back out.

So the benefits of it are speed, it's the speed process of it, because it's not like with a, you know, a regular bird, you have the opportunity to potentially cash out extra if there is extra equity. So there's no cash out involved. But it is a great way to very quickly recycle funds.

And do all lenders do that? Is that a Fannie Mae Freddie Mac thing or what do you know about that? So it is beneath Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. If you do it in your personal name, you can do that and you can do it up to 10 times what the Fannie money rates, which is great. And then you can do it on the L.L.C. side.

The rates are a little shittier. You can still do it. Very cool.

So that's the plan is you're going you're in process right now of refinance, basically not refinancing, but financing it or refinancing. Exactly. Because you're leaving nothing in the deal if you're right.

And in case people are a little confused, let me explain one thing. When you say you bought it, you said you used a lot of credit, but then we're talking cash like, you know, using air quotes around my cash. Right.

Because the line of credit, you didn't buy it with a lean like you didn't go get a mortgage on it to buy with a lot of credit you can use for everyone.

You go buy like a really expensive dog if you wanted to with that line of credit or you could buy whatever.

That's basically you took the cash out of the line of credit. Now that's your money that gets cash. And now you went back, buy the poverty cash. So it's not a lien on the property. That's what you mean by.

So you bought it cash, which is why another reason why I want to do that, a large line of credit is so that I have this ability to buy things for cash. Exactly. But it's really not cash.

But it is exactly. And that is the stipulation. I don't think I emphasized clearly enough for at all is that in order to do delayed financing, there cannot be a lean against the property, which is why I said cash. So you can use free cash, you can use a line of credit if you walk or a four one k anything that's liquid verifiable funds you can use private money to.

But there are you have to be careful, which I can tell you if you want, but you have to be careful about how you do that.

Interesting. OK, yeah, definitely. They can't have a lien on it that the idea. That's the problem. Yeah. OK, it's OK. You can't have a mortgage on it because you're not doing Al-Rifai, you're doing a financing just delayed.

Correct. All right. OK, David.

When normally we ask what the outcome is but it's still being built so it's not finished yet. Do you have to check perfect numbers for how you think it's going to perform? Yes, I do.

And actually ran them on my bigger pockets calculator before because I figured you guys would ask.

OK, so we have several air bases that are similarly located and size beds, vast amenities and stuff like that.

And after after everything is considered, including property management, all expenses, we're looking to profit cash flow about a thousand dollars.

Sometimes it's nine hundred and thirty three is our projection for this property of pure cash flow after it has been financed with the mortgage and all of that.

Do you expect to get all your money back and leave it in there, do you think? I expect to get it all back. So almost a thousand dollars a month. No money invested at the end of the day. That sucks. That sucks. And do a little better next time, Shelby.

But it is I mean, it's crazy. It's great numbers, especially since, like property management for Airbnb, because obviously I'm not going to manage it. I can't I can't do that. It's anywhere from twenty five. We're down to 20 percent because once you have X amount, then they'll drop the management fee. We're down to 20 percent. But so even that cash flow accounts for the twenty percent property management, the two times a month lawn care, all of the utilities that we have to pay and we're still walking away with nine hundred and thirty three.

That's that's awesome. And I love that you said pure cash flow. It's the phrase that I'm trying to use more often because like there's this misconception when we talk about like there's cash flow, which is like, oh yeah, my mortgage is this much and this is how much my rent is. I'm making eight hundred dollars a month or fifty per month in cash flow. No, you've got to account for the property management, the repairs and maintenance and all that.

Now hopefully with the and you have fewer repairs and maintenance, but things will still break and I'm sure you're accounting for that. And like you account for all the actual charges, you will get long term. If they don't happen every single month regularly and you get the actual pure cash flow, it's gone through the fire and came out the other side.

And that's that's the way you get real estate and flow.

I do love the the which you touched on is that you'll hopefully have less maintenance and repair stuff like that. For those of you who are out there who are considering Airbnb, I do love the fact that there's turnover frequently because then we have a cleaning crew, our property manager, walking it and making sure that the property is not distressed. And then also, if you think about it, Airbnb is generally people come in at night, they drop their bags, they go out to eat, they crash and then they leave.

So if you think about the wear and tear on the property, it in theory is significantly less than a long term. Yeah, yeah.

That's cool. I love Airbnb. I'm like, it sucks. Like some place like with covid. Obviously that hurt a lot of the Airbnb industry and the vacation rental industry, but it'll bounce back, you know, like it's one of those things that we couldn't have predicted, kind of a black swan event. You know, they shut down all Airbnb is in Hawaii, the whole state, like they made it illegal to rent on Airbnb or any. You just can't run anything.

Condos, nothing is zoned. Right. They shut it all down. They just don't want visitors here.

It's I get. Not counting things like that, which are just absurd that we never thought counting, I love the idea of vacation rentals, so very cool and burring combining that. That's genius. All right.

Last question here. What of the deep dive?

What lessons did you learn from this project? So I'd like to start off market properties do exist in places other than wholesale deals or dream for dollars, and so that's something that I thought is a good take away. And then the other thing is there's always new financing strategies to find.

And as long as you are continuing, we're learning about different strategies to finance properties or refinance or delayed finance. The more opportunities that you can have on hand, the easier you can do creative things with different deals, because a lot of times that you'll come in and you'll be like, oh, that doesn't work for me. But it might if you knew about doing X, Y and Z and tying these things together. So it's really about continuing to learn and building your toolkit.

Yeah, that's really good. Really good. All right. Well, that was the deal. Deepti was fantastic. I think people are going to get a lot out of that one. And again, I see a lot of potential in the future, especially as people start traveling again. I think that's a really cool business model that a lot of people here are going to make a lot of money off following and modeling.

So thank you. Let's move on to the last segment of today's show. It's time for our famous for.

But before we get to the famous four, we've got a whole bigger pockets podcast network out there. So let's hear what's happening this week.

Hey, guys, it's Filipa from the real estate Ricki Show. And last Wednesday, we had Prescot on the show who talks about using his parents, Hyeok, to invest in real estate, creating that true generational wealth, graduating college with no debt, doing a full time nurse, serving in the military and investing in real estate. You got to go listen to the nuggets that he drops. Make sure you go back and listen to last Wednesday, PRESCOTT.

All right.

Now go check out that show right as you finish this one. And now let's get to the famous four questions, number one. Shelby, do you have a favorite real estate related book? So that's a hard question, and I'm going to say that my favorite is how to invest in real estate by you and Josh working, because I use it all the time with clients when they're like, how do I get started? And I'm like, I read this book.

That's fine. Did you know the original title that book was going to be called Start Here? Like we change the title at the last minute, but because that's what people are, how do we get started? We're just be like, here, start here.

And that was that was the idea. But we didn't think it was. And we like to have very complicated titles like the book on blah, blah, blah. So anyway, thank you. That's the first time I think anybody said that I think on the show.

So warms my heart. Next question number two.

Number two, what is your favorite business book? So my favorite business book is not exactly a business book, but it's crap.

I screw this up every time I try to say millionaire more morning millionaire.

No, that's wrong. The David Osborne one that morning.

Millionaire, damn it. So that one.

And it's funny because it's literally my favorite book and I always screw the title. I should've written it down. But that book has changed my world from a personal but also from a business standpoint, with how you start your day, how you're really intentional with what you do, helps you prioritize things well. So I think that that book, above all other also I do love traction and we both mentioned that earlier, so. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

We're actually hiring an iOS, which is the model that traction uses like an implementor to take over our whole business and like a consult us on how to be more perfect on the US model through tell you, yeah, let's be good at number three.

David, when you're not buying every single property in the Carolinas, running the top producing real estate team that you have, jumping out of airplanes and being an overall awesome person, what are some of your hobbies?

Oh, I love to learn stuff. I have a very strong sense of curiosity. So I like philosophy, psychology, anthropology, history, stuff like that. I'm learning Spanish right now and then I love anything that's physical. So I like to workout, but I also like to climb mountains or surf or ride horses or whatever, stuff like that. That's awesome. OK, well, we'll have to get you to Hawaii next time we do one of those big mastermind things and we will surf.

It'll be fun. I'd love to go number four. What do you think separates successful real estate investors from those who give up, fail or never get started? I think it's ownership, I think that people don't truly understand how much they can control if they want to do, and the minute that they start blaming someone else is the wrong answer. So even if, like, we didn't close on time, my instinct is, did you check in?

Did you call them the week before and say, how are things going? Can I help with anything? Like, do I owe you anything? So, like, literally ownership and you have the impact to control your future?

That is one of the best answers I think I've ever heard for that question. I love it. I was. Yeah, really, really good. And that's a common theme that we see from successful people, is they say everything is my fault. They just look at everything that way and they don't beat themselves up and use that as an excuse to say, I suck at life, everything's my fault. It's more that you empower yourself when you say this went wrong and that's because of me and I can fix it.

That's awesome. All right.

Well, for people that want to learn more about your awesome ways, where can they find out more about you on Facebook, Instagram, real estate with Shelby Ausborn and Shelby Osborne, dot com or five pillars realty group. Definitely. Check out my team there. Pretty bomb.

So very cool. All right, Shelby, by the way, what are the five pillars? I'm assuming you have like five pillars that your name.

Yeah, so it's an acronym and it's end, which encapsulates what we stand for. So it's education, networking, creativity, action and perseverance. I'm so good.

Thank you so much for being a part of the show today. I look forward to seeing where you're headed in the future and appreciate it. I'll help you get back to the community, the bigger pocket's community and those investors in your market. You're you're making, uh, you're making a big impact.

So thank you. Thank you. Thanks so much for having me, guys. So super fun. Thank you.

Shelby, this is David Greene for Brandon making traction, Turner signing off.

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